Cavuto to ‘Guilty’ Millionaires: Write a Check to Uncle Sam Now!
- Posted on November 22, 2010 at 7:27pm by
Meredith Jessup
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A petition signed by 45 “patriotic” millionaires has been delivered to President Barack Obama and congressional leaders, encouraging them to allow the Bush-era tax cuts to expire at the close of 2010. But during his “Your World” broadcast Monday afternoon, Fox News‘ Neil Cavuto dedicated a full segment of his program to address the millionaires’ “guilty” feelings.
“Why write a letter when you could all just write a check?” Cavuto asked, suggesting if they felt the need to contribute more, they were more than welcome to. “Why wait for your answer, guys? Pay more now!”
Among the most widely recognized names on the list are billionaire Warren Buffet, DJ/musician MOBY and Jerry Cohen, the “Jerry” of Ben and Jerry’s Ice Cream. Though he admits Buffett is a good friend and a great businessman, Cavuto says Buffett is wrong when it comes to raising taxes.
Cavuto urged the group to consider the many small business owners who would be significantly burdened by any increase in their taxes, especially during a struggling economic recovery. “For goodness sake, quit speaking for all those 2 percenters right now, especially the ones nowhere near what any of you are making now,” he said.
In the group’s 155-word letter, the “Patriotic Millionaires for Fiscal Strength” say they hope their taxes will increase on the first of January:
We make this request as loyal citizens who now or in the past earned an income of $1,000,000 per year or more.
We have done very well over the last several years. Now, during our nation’s moment of need, we are eager to do our fair share. We don’t need more tax cuts, and we understand that cutting our taxes will increase the deficit and the debt burden carried by other taxpayers. The country needs to meet its financial obligations in a just and responsible way.
Letting tax cuts for incomes over $1,000,000 expire, is an important step in that direction.
During an interview on ABC’s This Week, Buffett told host Christiane Amanpour that “people on the high end, people like myself, should be paying a lot more taxes. We have it better than we’ve ever had it,” he said.
“This is not an orchestrated campaign,” said Erica Payne, founder of the Agenda Project, a political strategy firm recruited to help coordinate the millionaires’ petition. Payne told ABC News that the White House, Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif,) and Sen. Harry Reid (D-Nev.) and a number of other members of Congress began receiving the letter last Monday.
The millionaires’ plea echoes the past rhetoric of Vice President Joe Biden who claimed in 2008 that it was “patriotic” to pay higher taxes.
“Only 375,000 Americans have income over $1 million,” said Payne. “You’re asking a small number of people to recognize that our country is in part responsible for their prosperity.”
Also on the millionaires list is Princeton Review founder John Katzman who defended his support, saying, “no one wants to be the chump.”
“The notion that we’re going to set up a system that, in effect, is a tax on our kids, and then look to random good-hearted people to step up and close that gap is silly,” said Katzman. “We need systemically to create a tax code that pays the bills.”
But not everyone is on board with the millionaires’ plan. Ryan Ellis, tax policy director for Americans for Tax Reform, says “this group doesn’t speak to anything close to the majority of small business owners.”
In addition, Ellis says he’s skeptical that political motivations may be driving the so-called “Patriotic Millionaires,” not a sense of actual patriotic duty.
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Comments (211)
MJustice
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 9:00pmIdiots! This is BS in one form or another! Something is definitely rotten in Denmark. My wife and I have a small business and barely survive as is. We employee five people and I can assure you that we cannot take this tax increase. Thus, we will be cutting our staff down to three people and the remaining will have to take up the slack. That is if we survive at all due to all the business that will be folding up because of it. They have taxed and taxed and taxed us until most of us have our backs up against the wall. Hmmm…I guess I just figured out what is up, the actual millionaires out there will have little trouble dealing with the increase, but middle America will be gutted. Thus, the millionaires will come out after the dust clears all the stronger because most of their Mom & Pop competition will be no more. Nice! I weep to realize that the Tree of Freedom is crying out for nourishment. Yet, those willing to feed it’s needs are too far and few between. Dark days are coming. The funny part is that most of those who think themselves safe will quickly discover they just slit their own throats.
Report Post »BetterDays
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 9:23pmwinner, winner chicken dinner!
Report Post »Nice post, thoughtfull and so very saddly true.
It is all about redistributing our wealth, from the middle class to the very rich men who will then become our “masters”. Saddly, for those who believe that they will benifit from this and thusly support it a rude awakening awaits them. For history has proven time and time again that the big “fish” eat the little “fish, and in the end there is only “one fish” in a socilistic feeding frenzy. And the dead and dying lie in shallows filled to the brim too overflowing, the brightness of a nation destroyed by greed and fear, the stench of it so ill that the carrion birds won’t feast.
The radicals don‘t care and the decieved supporters don’t know.
Psychosis
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 9:52pmwell i dont know about you but this “fish” will bite back
Report Post »BRAVEHEART
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 10:09pmThese 45 millionairs are communist liars, communist always like to parade themeselves as champions of the people when in reality they are Elitist Liars and thieves. The ruling class never cease to reinforce their position of power and profiteering at any cost or diliberate deception. They generally have the morals of the Nazi SS or of a tyrant like Stalin.
Report Post »Nvrforget
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 10:47pmSounds like you suck at being a businessman and should fail, according to capitalism.
Report Post »cbrown
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 9:58amYou will get a tax break. Even millionaires will get a tax break too but it will be capped at $250K or $1M depending on what Congress agree too. As a small businessman you will not have a problem with the tax cuts, we are only talking about millionaires and billionaires.
Should we blow up the deficit by giving a tax break to Hedge find managers, Rush, Glen Beck, Hannity, Olbermann, Palin, …
Report Post »Jethro212
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 10:59am@cbrown, the idea that someone who makes more money should be penalized due to having more is just stupid. What is a solution? Flat, simple, tax.
Fair share you say?
Fair where I grew up meant, everyone did the same… The real question is, why are my wife and I being penalized for going to school, working really hard, and how are we rewarded? We get penalized in taxes to the point, it is more profitable for only one of us to work, yes I stay home with the kids now. Why is it, after putting all the work into everything we have, people look and go “must be nice,“ or ”their parents were wealthy”? Both of our parents were teachers, that is not rich, however, our parents weren’t stupid with their money and worked really hard working in the summer (while off) to get ahead.
People need to shut up, and pay, no deductions, no special exemptions, everyone pays the same amount. If that tax rate is so high the lower class can’t make it? Better cut your spending to adjust to them able to hack it…
Report Post »0my3
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:57pmI suggest these brave, patriotic kind souls publish their last 5 years of returns so folks can see what tax % they actually paid and the type of write offs they’ve used (exploited).
Report Post »RightUnite
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:57pmIf they’re so patriotic, how about they just give the government their whole wealth?
Report Post »Bob1943
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:52pmI say let them pay as much as want…….If it makes them feel better they can donate everything they have to the IRS, just don‘t try to raise anyone else’s taxes.
The flat tax is the way to go.
Report Post »Pyx
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:49pmThe article says, QUOTE According to Payne, the White House, Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif,) and Sen. Harry Reid (D-Nev.) and a number of other members of Congress began receiving the letter last Monday.
UNQUOTE
Someone flush the toilet and light a match ! It smells like a Pelosi, Reid and Obama in here !
Report Post »EqualJustice
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:48pmOne more thing.. If they signed the letter..I say RAISE their taxes 100% if they are SO patriotic and concerned. That’s what they want, so DO IT!! :) Just leave the middle class, the small business guy and those who create JOBS ALONE, thanks.
Report Post »jb1972
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 9:09pmAgreed, you just said it a little clearer than I did.
Report Post »sWampy
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 1:33pmWon’t matter, these guys shelter their money, they make no taxable income at all at the end of the year, they give enough in political donations to see that the laws are written to keep it that way.
Report Post »EqualJustice
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:41pmIf they want to redistribute their wealth, then by ALL MEANS.. give it ALL to the US government so they can just SPEND it! They don’t REALLY think it will go toward the DEFICIT, do they? How stupid are they? If you give it to them.. THEY WILL SPEND IT!!! SUCKERS. Liberals talk a good game, but they keep most of their money so they can enjoy their lavish life style. How nasty, with all those STARVING people around the world!!!
Report Post »ethomson
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:39pmIs it really millionaires? I thought the “millionaire” tax was for people that make $250,000 plus. These people aren’t millionaires. If they want the millionaires taxes to increase, let it be the true millionaires, not the 1/4 millionaires.
Report Post »EqualJustice
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:36pmBen AND Jerry..OH you mean THESE nasty guys?? HAHAHHAHAHHAHA http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/2/6/133525/4588/556/694073
Report Post »They will say this but will they get EXEMPTIONS or write offs in the end? Why don’t they just write a BIG check, if they are serious, all of them! Make it out to Obama’s USA deficit fund. :)
MozarkDawg
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:36pmNOTHING p’s me off more than this kind of Barbra Streisand — the income tax is the MINIMUM due, you frauds — you wanna pay more, go ahead but don‘t you dare pontificate that any other tax payer in this country is not paying his ’fair share’
And knock off the “patriotic” crap as well — paying taxes is not patriotic, it is a civic duty, obligation. Maybe you should take some of your ‘millions’ and purchase a dictionary.
Report Post »jb1972
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:34pmSure and when the govt’ spends all the millionaires money and then they are the poor, what then? All that says to the govt is keep spending, they still have money! Maybe if they would stop spending more than they bring in. Its called a budget. Apparently money cant you you brains………….
Report Post »EqualJustice
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:45pmThey will never be poor. They won’t give it up, trust me! They are willing to write off a portion in charitable donations, WHICH ARE TAX DEDUCTIBLE, but they won’t ever leave themselves without, ever!! They are too spoiled and that’s why they are liberals… do as I say. not as I do mentality.
Report Post »teahugger
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:32pmWell no more chunky monkey for me!
Report Post »APatriotFirst
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:30pmI figured out why Rockafeller wants to shut down MSNBC and FOX.
Report Post »MSNBC is just a give away, being sold to comcast and doesn’t count. The real goal is Fox. The only one that tells us the truth.
Without Fox, they can do anything they want and we would not know about it until too late.
Gotta love those socialists.
Claude
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:23pmIs there anybody holding them back from contributing more than they legally owe the Treasury? Why don’t they lead by example and maybe others will follow them. Why not let we the people suggest in a poll how much would be charitable and let them show us how to do it. Why not start with 10% of their net worth? I’m sure the Federal Government will spend it wisely.
Report Post »starman70
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:35pmThe government will spend it wisely? LOL, LOL, LOL! They sure will: $600 hammers; $300 toilet seats ad infinitum!
Report Post »dontbotherme
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:21pmPatriotic? Jerry, from Ben & Jerry’s ice cream is a huge left winger. This makes me suspect the credentials of the other signators. The government needs to stop spending & fire a majority of “hangers on”. Government, do not take more of anyone’s money. It is not yours to take. If these very few wish to pay more in taxes so be it. Let you few give up all of your tax shelters & exemptions & pay more. Your choice. But leave the rest of us alone.
Report Post »reshas1
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 9:49amI haven’t bought Ben & Jerrys in years, not after they hung an effigy of Pres. Bush.
Report Post »I’m going to email them to TELL them to write a check… http://www.benjerry.com/contact-us/
Ammon
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:20pmIf they want to donate, by all means let them. But by no means should they be allowed to speak for ALL millionaires. You can’t just proclaim yourself a spokesman and representative of a certain group. They still don‘t understand that we don’t want to fill the gap by taxing more, we want the government to start spending less!!! If it takes another election in 2012 to remind them of that so be it……….
Report Post »starman70
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:19pmThat’s GREAT! Let those whose incomes are one MILLION dollars or more per year pay higher taxes. Just leave the rest of the American people alone. Leave the working man alone. Leave the small businessmen alone. Leave the inventors of new technologies alone. Leave the small investors alone.
Let the common American citizen go about the business of restoring the American economy.
Report Post »Abel
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:17pm“Coward Millionaires” more like.
Report Post »the_ancient
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:17pmNothing is stopping these people from paying more. If they chose to they can right a check to the Treasury for any amount they would like to pay down the debt.
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/gift/gift.htm
Report Post »RepubliCorp
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 11:29pmI would sign that letter if I knew my new X-Ray scanner (or some product) would be purchased by the government. I would just add the new tax into the price tag………. Not that BO would make a back room deal with the likes of GE.
Report Post »jim1flyer
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:17pmGood for them! Now they can pay all the taxes they want and let the rest of us keep our money. I don‘t know how many millionaires there are in this country but 45 seems like a drop in the bucket especially since the tax cuts don’t effect just millionaires they effect everyone.
Report Post »USMCRETIRED2001
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:15pm45 OUT of 375,000 ?
Report Post »I happen to have a solution for them.
ALL 45 will NOT receive the Tax cut, not only that but on APRIL 15th they are more than welcome to write a GIGANTIC check to the IRS to help bail us out !! Thanks folks, now we know you CARE
Rearden Steel
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:15pmSomeone should remind them that they can send more money than is required of them to the government. If you want to give away more of your money the address is below. If the rest of the millionaires don’t want to give away their money and would rather spend it themselves then that should be their call; not that of a beaurocrat.
Gifts to the United States
Report Post »U.S. Department of the Treasury
Credit Accounting Branch
3700 East-West Highway, Room 622D
Hyattsville, MD 20782
the_ancient
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:20pmFrom http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/resources/faq/faq_publicdebt.htm#DebtFinance
You can write a check payable to the Bureau of the Public Debt, and in the memo section, notate that it’s a Gift to reduce the Debt Held by the Public. Mail your check to:
Attn Dept G
Report Post »Bureau of the Public Debt
P. O. Box 2188
Parkersburg, WV 26106-2188
dontbotherme
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:50pm“Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for money is men’s protection, and the base of a moral existence. … … When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded.” There are looters amongst us.
Report Post »dontbotherme
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 9:15pmThe excerpt that I quoted above was from “Atlas Shrugged”. Sorry for that omission.
Report Post »Doug Piranha
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 9:56pmHank’s product was Rearden metal, not steel. Otherwise, bravo.
Report Post »Moonbat
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 10:26pm“The metal bracelet on her wrist gave her the most feminine of all aspects; the look of being chained.” That’s another quote from Atlas Shrugged. I’ve got a bunch more — that thing is like fifteen hundred pages long — wait ’til you hear what she says about Christianity!
Report Post »TruthTalker
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:14pmJust send me a check if you want to help America. Leave the middleman out of the process.
Report Post »CatB
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 9:01pmYes if they are so Patriotic (and guilty feeling) then just send in a check to the government but DON’T tell others what they should do. Getting really sick of these do as I say LIBERALS thinking they run the world!
Report Post »Thatsitivehadenough
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:14pmSo? George Soros is part of the plot to form a one world government because he thinks he’ll be on the top controlling everyone underneath him. And I‘m not supposed to think the ’liberal elite‘ don’t think the same things? If they are so concerned, why don’t they just GIVE them their own money now? Phonies.
Report Post »APatriotFirst
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:12pmwhen millionaires volunteer to pay their fair share is the day pigs fly, or muslims all leave USA
Sledgehammer
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:24pmIf these fine upstanding Americans want to pay more money in taxes, We need to go to a 15% flat tax, with no examptions, using Warren Buffet as an example, would pay an additional $30 million dollars, but every one would and should pay the 15%! It’s good for every one to have a dog in the race!
Report Post »what4
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:25pmROTFLMAO somthing really smells on this one!
Report Post »snowleopard3200 {mix art}
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:42pm@Sledgehammer
Indeed support the flat tax.
Report Post »BetterDays
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:44pmIn addition to the Agenda Project, Payne is also the founder of the Tesseract Group, a boutique consulting firm that provides strategy and communications expertise to select public policy and political organizations.
Most recently, Payne served as a senior strategist to the Roosevelt Institute to envision and build a new public policy think tank. Working with Nobel-prize winner Joseph Stiglitz, and other leading economists, Payne created a center for economic policy development including financial reform and envisioning a 21st century economy. In this role, Payne co-edited Make Markets Be Markets: Restoring the Integrity of the US Financial Markets and produced a major conference by the same name that included George Soros, Elizabeth Warren, Simon Johnson, Lynn Turner and other experts.
Past Tesseract clients include: the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, the Center for Independent Media and America Votes.
Prior to founding the Agenda Project and the Tesseract Group, Payne co-founded the Democracy Alliance, a donor collaborative whose partners have invested over $100 million in progressive organizations.
Her early career included serving as Deputy National Finance Director for the Democratic National Committee during the 1996 presidential re-election campaign and as a consultant to a number of campaigns and political organizations. In addition to her public sector work, Payne has held senior marketing positions in the private sector.
Payne is the author of The Practical Progressive: How to Build a 21st Century Political Movement, which Jonathan Alter of Newsweek called “a blueprint for a progressive conspiracy to help save the country.”
She is on the Board of Advisors of the Public Diplomacy Collaborative at the Kennedy School at Harvard University. She is also on the Board of Advisors of Health Care for America Now.
Payne has a MBA from the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania (2000) and a BA from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (1991). additionally her Tresseract group recieves funding from George Soros.
gee, what a big supprise, a socilist Behar hiding behind thses other socilist prigs. So give your money, I’m thinking that the other 330,000 millionaires who didn’t join your socialist cry of insanity letter to your chump in chief want to hold onto their tax breaks then? That I’ll NEVER eat “chubby Hubby” again.
Report Post »Rational Man
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:49pmThat’s easy for a millionare to say. They aren’t struggling to make ends meet and just put food on the table. Tax multi-millionares more and they don’t do without. People who have taken wage and benefit cuts or are unemployed are the ones that suffer from tax hikes. And it stiffles job creation taboot. Sure it pays for extended unemployment benefits, but we don’t want unemployment. We want jobs!! We don’t want a handout, we want a job. If millionares want to help not only themselves and others, then they should create more jobs, more US based manufacturing and build up the US GDP instead of turning us into a wellfare state that is doomed to collapse. Then the whole world suffers.
Report Post »bcullum1952
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:54pmThere is no need to “tax” these millionaires. All they need do is write a check for the additional amount they feel the need to pay and send it to the Feds. That is IF they feel they need to pay more.
Report Post »Big Bob
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:56pmI say no direct tax on the people of the United States. If the feds want tax money they should be going to the state legislators like it was set up originally.
Report Post »We Are Not Alone
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 8:58pmOh the irony……. These people take advantage of every tax shelter, just reference what Google paid or didn’t pay in taxes (legally) recently.
Report Post »Something stinks…..
56 Signers
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 9:02pmBuffet Write the Check so you only make 50K a year and then your taxes will go up.
Report Post »HKS
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 9:04pmWhat a load of crap, Rich folks don’t pay taxes. Cuts, increases, it doesn’t matter to them.
Report Post »1TrueOne55
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 9:21pmThere is already a way for them to pay more to reduce the deficit. They can write out a check to the IRS at any time during the year and “Donate” extra funds to reduce the National Debt. The problem is that Progressives never pay down the debt with the taxes they collect. They just pass them back to the millionaires in tax breaks for the corporations they own or give them lucrative contracts to make more on the back side. Consider the money going to be made by Michael Chertoff or even George Schwartz/Soros when all those scan machines get sold and then mothballed into storage, tax money will still have to pay for them to be built and then when they mothball them they pay a storage fee to someone, maybe that is why Soros dumped his shares of RapidScan to shares of Rapid Store Storage systems.
I pray for the day when Jesus comes and makes all this a mute pointe and takes out the real evil empire…
Report Post »gman46
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 9:42pmHey they can pay as much as they want, just don‘t make others pay for it if they didn’t agree with it.
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 9:48pmTake a look at this. There is a Soros connection
The contact email for fiscalstrength.com is info@agendaproject.org.
On the Agenda Project’s site, on the About page (agendaproject.org/about.html), it says the following (about Erica Payne, the founder):
“Most recently, Payne served as a senior strategist to the Roosevelt Institute to envision and build a new public policy think tank. Working with Nobel-prize winner Joseph Stiglitz, and other leading economists, Payne created a center for economic policy development including financial reform and envisioning a 21st century economy. In this role, Payne co-edited Make Markets Be Markets: Restoring the Integrity of the US Financial Markets and produced a major conference by the same name that included George Soros, Elizabeth Warren, Simon Johnson, Lynn Turner and other experts.”
Report Post »Fear The Voices
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 9:57pmI don’t believe there is anything stopping these “patriotic” clowns from paying what they feel they should be paying; so how much have they been paying?
I bet they have paid the minimum, and had plenty of write-offs to save them a buck. Sure, they might be millionaires, but the average person who is going to be paying the higher rates aren’t millionaires, and they have small businesses to run, and families to support.
Report Post »I suggest these morons be held to a higher rate of taxation as they request, but leave everyone else alone! They want to pay more, be our guest!
vic138
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 10:07pmIt would of been much more impressive if each had given a check for HALF their last years income.
Report Post »sportlock
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 10:14pmSo uh, 45 millionaires now speak for the 375,000? Kinda like the 20% liberals speak for the rest of America, right? Just making sure I’m hearing this right..
Report Post »ron the veteran
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 11:20pmwe dont need a tax code that pays the bills what we need is a government that doesnt spend our money but on the few basic things we set it up for them to do. they dont need more money they need to have their credit card cut up. id defund every thing obama put into law. id stop paying his czars the depts of epa ed ag and the fda would all go bye bye or be leaned out so much they only need one office to run them. this we the pockets crap needs to stop. its time for us to say what stays and what goes. its our money not the governmnets. its time they learned that. id stop all pay for congress and the senate until no money is borrowed and the debt is being paid down. and then no senator or congress person shouldnt make more than the front line soldier E-4 pay grade if you get that for dieing for this nation why should and elected polititian get any more than them. and no more life time pay. if you ask me we should put anyone who been in office longer than 2 terms in jail just look at the mess they made. not one more dime for the feds. they need to cut spending. they need to be told they are broke. no more trips to india. or anywhere else. wed better be under attack for obama to fly again. i think hes had enough of our tollerance. its time to send him packin if the house wont do it then its up to us to demand he go…….
Report Post »liberty1111
Posted on November 22, 2010 at 11:53pmA tax on the money you earn in exchange for your time, which is GOD given, is unconstitutional. The United States Statitory Code defines Income as money you earn from investing in a project, not money you earn for exchange of your labor. A flat Tax is a lie and doesn’t address the underlying issue which is the Fed Gov is involved in things it has no business in being involved in, is no good at and because of the nature of Government is incapable of being good at. Youtube Milton Friedman . . . it is really common sense and the law of free markets. It doesn‘t work when Gov’t is involved deciding who wins and who loses through regulation and protection.
Report Post »jzs
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 12:31amAnd Christ said:
“If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, he too will cry out and not be answered.” -Proverbs 21:13
“Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy.” -Proverbs 31:8-9
“He who oppresses the poor to increase his wealth and he who gives gifts to the rich–both come to poverty.”-Proverbs 22:16
“People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.”
-1 Timothy 6:9-10
“Do not exploit the poor because they are poor and do not crush the needy in court, for the LORD will take up their case and will plunder those who plunder them.” -Proverbs 22:22-23
“The wealth of the rich is their fortified city; they imagine it an unscalable wall.” -Proverbs 18:11
I could go on but to what point? I could give you thirty more quotes. I challenge any of you to give me a single quote of Christ to the effect of, “Support the rich, for they provide blessings upon the land.” Absurd. I’ve seen no words or actions from anyone in the Tea Party that are so reprehensible, so unChrist-like, that people here won’t defend them. I’ll leave you this to sleep on:
“The righteous care about justice for the poor, but the wicked have no such concern.”
Report Post »-Proverbs 29:7
No1YaKnow
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 12:37amI wonder what mentality possesses a person to scream “fair share” when we have a PROGRESSIVE income tax in place–of which the rich pay obscenely more. No, I am not rich, but I do not believe that their success is a license for the government to confiscate. And yes, the “guilty” ones need to just write the check. They must have redacted the part where they asked for their special waivers and exemptions and typical “everyone but me” mantra.
Report Post »Conserving Ink
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 1:05amNot a Flat Tax, a Fair Tax. Using a sales tax instead of a income tax cuts out all Buffet’s loopholes. He still has to buy stuff no matter how big his tax shelter.
Report Post »____________________________________________________________________
http://conserving-ink.blogspot.com
101
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 1:10am45 Millionaires far from “patriotic” all their money is tax sheltered overseas!
When we vote out the puppets, the patriotic thing to do would be a flat tax!
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 1:46amAnd Christ said:
“If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, he too will cry out and not be answered.” -Proverbs 21:13
This is what God says he will do, not a mandate from God that the government does this.
“Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy.” -Proverbs 31:8-9
This says that the poor have rights, not that people have a right to the things of others.
“He who oppresses the poor to increase his wealth and he who gives gifts to the rich–both come to poverty.”-Proverbs 22:16
This says it’s wrong to oppress the poor to increase his wealth, not that the poor shouldn‘t be used as labor to increase another’s wealth.
Also, the last part is a statement of fact – i.e., the natural order of things – such that it happens whether you like it or not. And as a statement of fact, it is not a mandate by God to the government to make sure this happens.
And of course, business startup fees don’t help the poor, either.
“People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.” -1 Timothy 6:9-10
This speaks to an individual’s obligation to god, not to man. This has nothing to do with the redistribution of wealth.
“Do not exploit the poor because they are poor and do not crush the needy in court, for the LORD will take up their case and will plunder those who plunder them.” -Proverbs 22:22-23
This speaks to how the poor should be treated in court by the judges. This has nothing to do with the redistribution of wealth.
“The wealth of the rich is their fortified city; they imagine it an unscalable wall.” -Proverbs 18:11
This is a statement of fact, and a warning to the rich not to trust in their riches. This does not say we shouldn’t become rich. This also has nothing to do with the redistribution of wealth.
I challenge any of you to give me a single quote of Christ to the effect of, “Support the rich, for they provide blessings upon the land.”
Strictly speaking, a lack of such a quote from Christ would not help you, if such a concept were supported elsewhere.
Further, the Tea Party’s argument is not that we should support the rich, primarily. Nice try. The Constitutional position is that we should all be taxed at the same rate; but if you’re going to have Progressive taxes (which are the fault of Lefties), then you should know that the rich tend to be the most productive, and therefore when you tax them more they are less productive.
I support the flat tax. It’s fair, and it removes one of the Progressive’s precious class warfare generators.
“The righteous care about justice for the poor, but the wicked have no such concern.” -Proverbs 29:7
This is also a statement of fact to help us discern the character of a man. This has nothing to do with the redistribution of wealth.
Here are some other verses to consider:
Proverbs 10:4
Poor is he who works with a negligent hand, But the hand of the diligent makes rich.
Looks like this verse tempers the others; Wealth is a great thing, but not the only thing.
Proverbs 21:17
He who loves pleasure will become a poor man ; He who loves wine and oil will not become rich.
Here, it seems that being rich is a normal goal; Again, ultimately not the most important thing, but a fine goal, nonetheless.
Acts 5:4 (partial quote)
“While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control?
Probably the verse with the most relevance to the issue of taxes; Wealth belongs to the person who earned it. It is not the government‘s place to redistribute another person’s wealth; Doing so is theft.
Report Post »seekjusticeandmercy
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 4:10am@JZS: I appreciate your concern for those less fortunate however I believe you’ve overlooked some important points in your interpretation of the scriptures and the role of government. There has been a few responses to your post and I would like to add a few additional comments. In the scriptures God is primarily speaking to the love and generosity of individual’s (or the lack thereof) and not to our support of a political system to take care of the poor. God always intended that the church (the community of believers) would take care of the poor out of our freely given offerings of money, time, talent and goods. It is our personal responsiblity to take care of our own families and also to also give generously to bless others as we are able. Jesus said to give to Ceasar what is Ceasar’s (forced taxation) and to God what is God’s (free will offerings). God’s kingdom is within the hearts of people. While its a good thing for government to promote generosity it should not demand it. I believe government was intended to be a mechanism for protecting our God given rights (life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness) from foreign and domestic enemies and for keeping social order. Government should provide for the common defense of it‘s citizens against foreign threats and protect law abiding citizens from those who would do them harm from within it’s own society. Letting government do our acts of benevolence for us through taxation makes it a matter of legal obligation for all and not a personal choice by any and therefore is of no worth in God’s eyes. It’s a matter of the heart.
Report Post »C.ChristieJ.Bolton2012
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 6:22amSo when is someone going to make the argument that poor people need to start paying their fair share? They typicality get most of the benefits … yet pay zero in income taxes, how is that fair?
oldsoldier10
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 6:36amYOU SIR Can Not use the words Muslims and Pig in the same sentence! Pigs will be offended and the ACLU will call you a racist. And why in the hell aren’t the pigs making over $250K annually just giving 100% of that to the government?
Report Post »grandmaof5
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 7:09amAs an American, and definitely not making $1,000,000/year, we need to research these people starting with Jerry Cohen and boycott their products or company. Anybody who is willing to give this administration millions more dollars after their obvious lack of fiscal responsibility can’t be taken seriously. I didn’t see a request to cut government spending in return for their pledge. These people could do great deeds for this country without the government middle man.
Report Post »Ruler4You
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 7:21amNot sure why millionaires and elitists all seem to want the rest of the nation under Marxist rule, but it is a very common view.
Report Post »Partyof1
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 7:45amI wonder how many of these millionaires have offshore accounts and businesses to avoid paying taxes.
Report Post »mikem1969
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 9:53amI support the flat tax, but to be a little more realistic, it needs to be around 7-10% and states need to do the same.
Report Post »jzs
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 10:55amThanks for your interpretation of the words of Christ Pastor Doctor’s labor. I’m always impressed by the mental gymnastics required to take the unambiguous words of Christ and interpret them in such a way to restrict the meaning, or remove it all together. The TP proclaims that this is a Christian country, that we should tear down the “separation of church and state,” but apparently that only applies to part of Christianity (like Christmas trees at State Capitols or teaching intelligent design) but not Jesus’ admonition to help the poor. That’s a part of Christianity, you say, that doesn’t apply to Christian nation.
The TP DOES support the wealthy at the expense of the poor. Right now 30% of the wealth of this country is owned by the richest 2%. I guess that is not enough redistribution of the country’s wealth to the rich. The TP support policies that would increase that disparity, to concentrate (distribute) even more of the weath into fewer hands. Let’s get rid of anti-trust laws so we have only one car company instead of several. And let’s get rid of the mimimum wage, so the rich can enjoy more profit, while making the poor even more poor. And let’s privatize social security, so Wall Street profits from that money, and your savings are is in their hands.
While we’re at it, let’s get rid of the EPA, which forces the big companies to limit emissions and go back to the 70s where we had 24/7 smog blocking out the sun from major cities (or basically every industrialized part of the country, as it is in China). And let companies avoid costly disposal costs by dumping toxins in fields and and solvents into the rivers so that a stray match ignites a body of water (again like the 70s).
This Utopia you imagine is one the US are already been to and rejected. And the ironic thing is, in all liklihood it is the people on the website who would suffer the most.
Report Post »Loki
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 11:54amAgreed…
Report Post »Simple solution that has two fold reward… 15% flat tax, no exceptions or deductions, and disband of the IRS…
flat tax will bring in tax moneys lost by crooked accounting by rich and poor, and disbanding the IRS will save billions in salariers
SwizzleThis
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 12:46pm“pay their fair share”???? When will the government stop thinking that it can spend the people’s money? I agree with Cavuto. If any, specific filthy rich person believes that the spending is just and want to contribute more, then let them send the government all but $250,000 a year. After all, what could they need with more money? Let the others who wish to give to charity directly or create jobs through investment spend their money how THEY wish. Only LOSERS ask to spend other people’s money.
Are YOU a loser?
Sadly, I am nowhere close to being a millionaire or being in the tax increase pool proposed (except for Obama’s hidden taxes through economy destruction, gas taxes, oil drilling handcuffs, healthcare boondoggle, naked scanner purchases, public job hiring and pay increases…).
Report Post »Beckofile
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 12:47pmMy progressive friend works overseas and has the first 90k of his salary tax free. His progressive company gave him a deferment on his salary past 90k so he does not need to pay higher tax rates now and his money is invested and growing tax free. When he quits he will start to receive the defered salary payments at a lower tax rate for years to come while not working. It is funny how he votes to raise my taxes but does anything to avoid his? I am sick of the double standards. Vote to raise taxes on the rich and I guarantee you will only raise your own.
Report Post »jzs
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 1:31pmSome would say that the Pope (Benedict the XVI) knows a thing or two about the Bible. Here are some quotes and a link to the original source.
In his Message the Pope highlights “the need to work with greater commitment at all levels in order for the right to healthcare to be effective, facilitating access to primary medical assistance.”
After highlighting the importance of “establishing true distributive justice which guarantees everyone adequate care on the basis of objective needs”, the Pope insists that “the world of healthcare cannot divorce itself from moral rules, which must govern it in order to ensure it does not become inhuman”.
The Holy Father writes that “healthcare justice must be one of the priorities on the agendas of governments and international institutions. Unfortunately, along with positive and encouraging results, opinions and schools of thought exist which harm this justice.”
http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=39239&wf=rsscol
Report Post »pajamash
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 1:32pmWhaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?
“This is not an orchestrated campaign,” said Erica Payne, founder of the Agenda Project, a political strategy firm recruited to help coordinate the millionaires’ petition.”
Doesn’t the fact taht they hired you Ms. Payne, make it an orchestrated compaign?
Report Post »pajamash
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 1:45pm“The millionaires’ plea echoes the past rhetoric of Vice President Joe Biden who claimed in 2008 that it was “patriotic” to pay higher taxes.”
Yes Mr. Vice President it IS ‘patriotic’ to pay taxes and especially higher taxes. BUT, is it ethically or morally correct to REQUIRE, in a system where we are supposedly equal, a group to pay higher taxes. Especially when they are already paying higher taxes. All because people, like you, love to play Santa Claus and continually give and give and give.
Especially when you have something like this:
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/entitlement-america-head-household-making-minimum-wage-has-more-disposable-income-family-mak
Report Post »liberty1111
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 1:52pmJZS-
I am happy to answer your question.
I) You cannot give the government enough money to help poor people. There is no historical record that shows this has ever been done, especially the Bible.
2) There were poor people long before Central governments and have continued to be since. Charity is from the heart and that is the message the Bible speaks of in your quotes ‘have a heart, give with pleasure, not because of state enforced obligation but because of Spiritual desire’.
3) There was no all encompassing Federal government during the depression that fed the 25% out of work, it was charitable organizations funded by people who decided what to do with their money of their own free will.
4) This country did not become the most generous country on the face of the earth because of government. Rather, it was the lack of government interference in the free market that made this possible. The power of the individual to exercise his/her GOD given blessings and inspirations lead to this reality. To think otherwise is to ignore the reality of the situation.
Finally, here is something for you to ponder or ‘sleep on’ as you so arrogantly put it . . . ‘Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime’
Blessings
Report Post »liberty1111
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 2:30pm@JZS-
Report Post »Wow. I have a suggestion. JZS you could better understand how to help the poor if you better understood truly free markets and the economics of such. As an example, the free market of education, I would submit, would make us the most dynamic nation on the planet rather that the highest debtor nation. Since the creation of the centralized department of education over 60 years ago we have declined year by year, preparing our children for dependence rather than independence. If we had stayed the course of the forefathers, who were by the way God aligned men, we would see the free market find very successful ways to prepare our children and those successful ways would lead to still more innovative ways that would ultimately bleed over to the rest of the world. I could go on and on about that example but you get the idea.
To your second point which exalts the Pope and the Catholic Church and disparages the Tea Party I have a few questions.
Is this the same ‘Church’ that had the greatest rate of Aids within their midst and handled it by excommunicating those who were ‘guilty’? Is this the same church that collects 10% from their parishioners weekly from all over the world, has their priests live on little pay, collects millions and millions of pieces of property over the centuries given to the church by their parishioners through their last will and testaments? What have they done with all that abundance? Where have they shared it? We are talking about Trillions of dollars, pesos, lira, euros and Trillions more in assets. This is a crime. This is a cold heart and a beaurocracy that has lost it’s way in following what it asks others to do, lost it’s way in following what Jesus would do. This is a Church which sympathized with the Nazi‘s in WWII and denied having while hiding child molesters for decades with in it’s own organization. This may be off the subject and may be considered an attack but it is not, it is fact. It is another example in the long list of examples of the failure of centralized control. If your Pope where in line with the heart of God as you are he would cash these holdings in and do God’s work with them. Rather his actions as those before him are to do nothing more and preserve the ‘Church’. I have no doubt your GOD and mine will have something to say about that behavior.
jzs
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 3:31pmHeadline: CORPORATE PROFITS GREATER NOW THAN ANY TIME IN THE LAST SIXTY YEARS.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/24/business/economy/24econ.html?_r=1
But of course, we want to not let Bush’s tax cuts expire, and run up the deficit another trillion bucks? Why? “Because you don’t raise taxes during a recession” that the line at least. But, friends, the recession is over for the rich. They are literally making more money than ever. So let’s drop that nonsence.
Liberty1111. I see you have just vilified the entire catholic religion. I didn’t “exhalt” the Pope I quoted him – please keep hyperbole out of your arguments. That’s just immature. Stop. I assume, and correct me if I’m wrong, that you also vilify the Muslim religion, if you’re anything like everyone else here. If, so I think that’s a pattern. Liberals are Nazis too? That would fit coming from you.
I’m at lunch, but I’ll comment about your statement that during the Great Depression people were helped by the Church. Correct. But the government didn’t have “all encompassing program” to help the poor? Ever hear of the New Deal?
I’ll leave you with a quote: Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” Mathew 19:21
Report Post »chazman
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 3:56pmI’m willing to pay one half of one percent of my income towards taxes, or until we get rid of corruption in our government, how about NO TAXES!!!
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 4:00pmJZS
JZS,
“Thanks for your interpretation of the words of Christ Pastor Doctor’s labor. I’m always impressed by the mental gymnastics required to take the unambiguous words of Christ and interpret them in such a way to restrict the meaning, or remove it all together.”
I‘m always impressed by the Progressives’ assumption that the written forum is just as effective a place to employ their Saul Alinsky tactics, as in the spoken forum. But here where complete arguments can be made all at once, they hold significantly less sway over the star-struck.
We both are claiming that Christ’s words are unambiguous, so your mere claim does not help you (or me). You’re welcome to parse Christ words out for us, and in context, so that we can all see how you came to your conclusion. But admonitions to the rich to be good are not admonitions to the rich to become not rich.
Also, you completely ignored my last three quoted verses, which clearly hold the concept of being rich as a normal and healthy desire.
“The TP proclaims that this is a Christian country, that we should tear down the “separation of church and state,” but apparently that only applies to part of Christianity (like Christmas trees at State Capitols or teaching intelligent design) but not Jesus’ admonition to help the poor. That’s a part of Christianity, you say, that doesn’t apply to Christian nation.”
I do not proclaim that this is a Christian nation. We are not a Christian nation.
There’s nothing to tear down as far as the “separation of church and state”, because Congress isn’t making laws that favor one religion over another.
Further, it’s not logically possible for religion in the general sense to not affect Congress, because we all believe in moral absolutes, and we all believe that all men are essentially the same on some level (same kinds of needs, desires, aspirations, weaknesses), and so we believe that there are laws which transcend government that apply to us all.
Notice that the Constitution restricts Congress from making laws which favor a specific religion. Religion in the general sense (right to property, right to life, right to freedom, etc.) is not beyond Congress’ Constitutional scope.
“The TP DOES support the wealthy at the expense of the poor. Right now 30% of the wealth of this country is owned by the richest 2%. I guess that is not enough redistribution of the country’s wealth to the rich.”
This is not a relevant consideration. If someone else makes a ton of money, but I am poor, nobody is necessarily at fault. I support everybody’s right to become as rich as they can make themselves.
Also, your position assumes a zero sum game. Consider that all wealth is made by labor. so the more free we are to labor, the more wealth is created. And whoever creates some wealth, that wealth belongs to them, and no one else.
As John Stossel said, free markets grow the economic pie:
Stossel Show – The Battle for the Future! (Part 5/6)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa3ffFbcvkY
Stated another way, people can’t make money unless they supply a good or service that others want to buy. Rich people make money by supplying others’ wants and needs. Further, a free society is free to try to make a better or cheaper product, should the rich run rough shot over the poor. And if you have courts which are not disfunctional, then the courts will take care of those who have been proven to abuse the poor with their wealth.
“The TP support policies that would increase that disparity, to concentrate (distribute) even more of the weath into fewer hands. Let’s get rid of anti-trust laws so we have only one car company instead of several. And let’s get rid of the mimimum wage, so the rich can enjoy more profit, while making the poor even more poor. And let’s privatize social security, so Wall Street profits from that money, and your savings are is in their hands.”
Trusts are ultimately ineffective against a motivated People. If the government gets out of the way, gets rid of the business startup fees, people will find ways to go around having to do business with the Trusts.
The Minimum Wage is kind of an illusion. Things are worth whatever they are worth – that’s why gold retains a lot of value. Remember, when we talk about the Minimum Wage, we’re talking about fiat money – the paper itself is worthless. If it costs one dollar to pay for a house, then obviously everything that costs less than a house will cost less than a dollar.
Money is not wealth – money only REPRESENTS wealth. It’s supposed to carry value from one place to another, but you can’t eat or drink it, so it is pretty worthless.
Also, the Minimum Wage is being used to help illegal immigrants underbid US workers, so having a Minimum Wage is a big problem for us. It is for any country’s economy.
“While we’re at it, let’s get rid of the EPA, which forces the big companies to limit emissions and go back to the 70s where we had 24/7 smog blocking out the sun from major cities (or basically every industrialized part of the country, as it is in China). And let companies avoid costly disposal costs by dumping toxins in fields and and solvents into the rivers so that a stray match ignites a body of water (again like the 70s).
You don’t need regulations like the EPA when you have a functional court system. If a company‘s practices result in a person’s decrease in health, then that person should take the man in charge of the company to court, and when the court finds that man guilty, then other companies will take notice, and be afraid to do the same thing.
This is how government of, by, and for, the people protect each individual’s right to not be hurt by others, yet allow others to be free to pursue innovative economic endeavors.
“Innocent until proven guilty” means that no company is obligated to another person until they are proven guilty in a court of law. Until that point, the company may otherwise carry on with dumping toxins into the air.
Also, people may want to consider moving to a different place to live, if the polluting company is just so darn productive that everyone outside of the pollution can live comfortably.
Now, I have a problem with destroying fish that people eat, or water that people drink, but I don’t really care about the animals or nature nearly as much as I care about people. So, if we lose a few species, that’s fine with me.
“This Utopia you imagine is one the US are already been to and rejected. And the ironic thing is, in all liklihood it is the people on the website who would suffer the most.”
What Utopia? A free market, Capitalist, freedom of speech loving country, like all countries populated by fallible man, has its problems – but it is best kind of country anyone can hope for. Now if we can just get back to being that country, because we are currently not.
Report Post »american1st
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 4:20pmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ftt49Tjti2w&feature=player_embedded
Report Post »just happy
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 4:36pmThe wealthy already pay more and if they want to pay even more they can write a check. Fare share is when everyone pays the same percentage no matter what their income.. those who earn more pay more that way. Most ( but not all) who earn more worked harder or made wiser choices than those of us who earned less. since they were smart enough to earn more I am willing to let them keep their earnings and they probably will spend more (giving others more earnings) or figure out ways to put others to work so they too can earn more.The lack of understanding in this country about how “money works is appalling and is part of the reason we have the economic troubles we have at this time.
Report Post »Semperfi50
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 4:51pmI was laid off a year ago from a Warren Buffett owned company( along with everyone else who worked there). It makes me sick everytime I see him on the news , laughing and talking how he want’s to spred the wealth around, pay more taxes – - yet – -he allowed his henchmen to run down, and then shut down a good company he owned, and ruined alot of good peoples lives. I spent 10 years working there and only needed 4 more years to retire- – not going to happen ! I’m too old to be hired again and too young to collect a pension.Once unemployment runs out ,I’ll be out on the street. Thanks Warren- -great way to treat your people and Veterans who worked hard for you !! Hope you enjoy the Holidays with your rich family
Report Post »jzs
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 11:42pmDoctor’s Labor, good post. You’re obviously smarter than the average bear on this website. In the battle of Biblical quotes I’ll give you two:
“It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven (Luke 18:25)
“Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Mathew 19:21)
Regardless, maybe the Bible isn’t entirely consistent, and open to interpretation based based on an individuals values of what is best for the world. I’m with you if you agree with that. But if in Heaven everyone is equal, why is it that Christians should support accumulation of wealth into the hands of a minority of the rich? You say it’s “the natural order.” Maybe so, but I think Christ’s teaching were all to support the common good, not the good of the rich and powerful (my Biblical reference is Psalms and the Ten Commandments).
On your other comments:
- I don’t know who Saul Alinsky is. Is he like Glen Beck except liberal?
- Admonitions to the rich to not become rich. Quoted above. I’m not saying I agree. Just quoting the Bible.
- As far as this being a “Christian Nation”, I agree with you Doctor’s Labor that it is not. A nation composed mostly of Christians, sure. But this is a nation governed by the Constitution not the Bible. I agree and admire and respect your for saying that.
- You are exactly wrong when you say that the government should not prevent, through antitrust laws, a single company from monopolizing a market. When an agricultural company (or pick your own favorite industry) dominates the market, they can charge you what they want, because they’ve quashed the competition. You can buy from them or you can do without. That’s socialist anti-trust laws prevent. Because there is no competition they can not only charge what they want, they can pay employees anything they want. Don‘t say that’s hypothetical, that is US history, and that’s why we have anti-trust laws. The United States made a socialist judgment: monopolies may be good for the owner of a company, but they are bad for Americans.
To your point about companies polluting the aquifers, the air, the land, the ocean: sorry friend, your lack foresight. Once the carcinogens are in the water table, in the rivers, in the atmosphere it’s too late to file a lawsuit. And if we do, after ten years of litigation, a company pays a fine. And maybe other companies will decide that they don’t want to spend the money defending their environmental practices. Sorry, that’s just idiotic. Let‘s just say companies can’t give your kid or my kid cancer by dumping their carcinogenic waste into an aquifer and leave it at that. I don’t want to sue them, I just want that crap out of my water.
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on November 23, 2010 at 11:48pmJZS,
Oh, and Intelligent Design is a fact. Even you understand this, if you follow your likely day-to-day assumptions to their logical conclusion.
You have free will, right? So then your decisions aren’t set in stone like everything else that is considered to follow Scientific laws. You didn‘t HAVE to turn left if you didn’t want to.
Which means that there is a part of you that is not governed by Scientific laws.
That part, which most religions call a soul, cannot be explained by Science, since Science is rigid, and does not allow for free will.
So, if Science isn’t responsible for your free will, then something that doesn’t have to follow rigid, Scientific rules must be.
There you go. Intelligent Design is a fact.
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on November 24, 2010 at 3:06amJZS,
I don’t know if compliments are a Saul Alinsky tactic, but thank you for the kind words.
“It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven (Luke 18:25)
“Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Mathew 19:21)
“Regardless, maybe the Bible isn’t entirely consistent, and open to interpretation based based on an individuals values of what is best for the world. I’m with you if you agree with that.”
These have to do with the heart. “Where your treasure is, there will your heart be, also”, remember?
We can be rich and kind, also poor and mean.
“But if in Heaven everyone is equal, why is it that Christians should support accumulation of wealth into the hands of a minority of the rich? You say it’s “the natural order.” Maybe so, but I think Christ’s teaching were all to support the common good, not the good of the rich and powerful (my Biblical reference is Psalms and the Ten Commandments).”
Even in heaven, as well as in hell, there will be those who are richer than others. At any rate, though, we’re not in heaven, and a lot of the verses you originally showed me aren’t even relevant in heaven.
Christ did not teach the support of the common good – he taught us to be good to others, rich and poor alike, but also the Bible teaches us that it is our responsibility to produce wealth for ourselves.
Also, you keep mentioning the “good of the rich”, which I take as pertaining to the Right’s support of tax cuts for the rich. You’re being set up – our support for such tax cuts have a specific context that you must not ignore.
The context for our support for tax cuts for the rich (as well as everyone else, in case you weren’t paying attention), is that the less taxes anyone has to pay, the more productive they will be. Now, were it up to us, we would have a low flat tax, and the size of government would expand and contract according to how much the private sector is able to produce (1% of $200 is more money than 1% of $100, and so the government can afford more when the private sector is more productive).
So, it’s not that we support a tax cut on only the rich, it’s that we realize that rich people produce more and hire more, and so the more the government leaves them alone (as well as the rest of us), the more productive the economy will be.
And get this – the only reason you see the Tea Party as supporting the rich, is because of the Progressive Tax. When the government says they want to treat one group of people different than the other – in this case, the rich – then if someone supports that group’s right to be treated like everyone else, it can seem like he is supporting only those who are treated different. This misses the point – and the Progressives want you to miss that point.
What if a Satanist was teaching people openly in the street, and the government said “Hey you can’t say stuff like that”. If I support the Satanist’s right to free speech, it‘s not because I’m supporting Satanists, it‘s because I support everyone’s right to free speech. But because the Satanist was singled out, it LOOKS LIKE I’m supporting Satanists. This is how the Progressives snow you.
“On your other comments:”
Saul Alinsky is the guy who taught all the Progressives how to get people to believe them without playing by the rules.
The quoted verses don’t support the idea that the rich should seek poverty, as normative. Being rich is a good thing, in general – you can abuse it, but that’s a function of the heart, not of simply being rich. Again, though, that’s what the courts are for, to keep the rich and the poor from stealing from, or hurting, others.
It’s not possible, from a Christian paradigm, that a country could even be a Christian nation, since the only true Theocracy (the nation of Israel) had served its purpose as a Theocracy some 2000 years ago. There are no true Theocracies, any more, and there won’t ever be, again – only each person’s personal responsibility to God (the God of Israel).
About anti-trust laws; Again – and let’s go ahead and take the agricultural company – people can band together against the trusts to grow their own food somewhere else. At least in a free country, they can. And in a country that doesn’t have business startup fees, they can.
Besides, government regulation of agriculture has not historically resulted in increased productivity. Like Reagan noted, such is the way with central planning. See here:
“A Time for Choosing” by Ronald Reagan
(link starts at 06:12; watch for about 2 1/2 minutes, as Reagan talks about farming regulations)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXBswFfh6AY#t=6m12s
“To your point about companies polluting the aquifers, the air, the land, the ocean: sorry friend, your lack foresight. Once the carcinogens are in the water table, in the rivers, in the atmosphere it’s too late to file a lawsuit. And if we do, after ten years of litigation, a company pays a fine. And maybe other companies will decide that they don’t want to spend the money defending their environmental practices. Sorry, that’s just idiotic.”
The great length of time it takes for the courts to administer justice is also due to the Progressives in the form of their interpretation of “stare decisis”. See, instead of the court system being obligated to logic and common sense, stare decisis – according to the Progressive interpretation – allows the courts to be beholden to itself. Who, in the real world, decides that a decision is right based on the frequency of such a decision in the past? What if they were wrong back then?
Fix the court system, and you won’t have such long waiting times.
“Let‘s just say companies can’t give your kid or my kid cancer by dumping their carcinogenic waste into an aquifer and leave it at that. I don’t want to sue them, I just want that crap out of my water.”
In order to do that, you have to consider someone guilty of something before they commit a crime. This violates a human’s right to be considered innocent until proven guilty.
Besides, I don’t think that most companies prefer to give people health problems to make a profit. If anything, I think they‘d be more willing to risk giving people health care to get around the government’s willingness to risk people’s livelihood with all their regulations.
But, I mean, if no one’s using the end of the river as it empties into the ocean, I don’t see a problem with dumping some stuff there, in principle.
Of course, if people were able to keep more of their own money, they might just decide to invent a less polluting factory for their own safety.
By and large, though, these great polluting factories have given America far more than their pollutants have taken away.
Report Post »glenng2
Posted on November 24, 2010 at 3:06amApatriotfirst seems to think that the people paying the 70 percent of the taxes don’t pay their “fair” share
Report Post »I bet he’s in the group of 48% that pay no taxes. Just another left wing leach.
thepatriotdave
Posted on November 24, 2010 at 1:51pmWow, we really are going backwards. I remember back in the late 80′s I was impressed by a report that came out that stated that there were slightly over 1 million Millionaires in the USA.
And can someone please tell me what keeps these rich guys from writing a check for a nice tidy sum above and beyond what they legally owe in taxes? Neal Cavuto is right!
Happy Thanksgiving
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on November 24, 2010 at 7:59pmI messed up on my last post, I meant to say:
“Besides, I don’t think that most companies prefer to give people health problems to make a profit. If anything, I think they‘d be more willing to risk
[EDIT, STRIKEOUT: "giving people health care"]
[EDIT, INSERT: "people's health"]
to get around the government’s willingness to risk people’s livelihood with all their regulations.”
Report Post »