150+ Maine Churches to Launch Massive Anti-Gay Marriage Father’s Day Fundraising Campaign
- Posted on May 25, 2012 at 10:29am by
Billy Hallowell
- Print »
- Email »
PORTLAND, Maine (AP) — Scores of Maine churches will pass the collection plate a second time at Sunday services on Father‘s Day to kick off a fundraising campaign for the lead opposition group to November’s ballot question asking voters to legalize same-sex marriages.
Between 150 and 200 churches are expected to raise money for the Protect Marriage Maine political action committee, said Carroll Conley Jr., executive director of the Christian Civic League of Maine evangelical organization and a member of the PAC. Conley is also trying to drum up support for the Maine campaign from religious leaders from around the country.
It’s unusual, but not unheard of, for churches to take up collections for political causes. Maine’s Catholic diocese says it raised about $80,000 with a designated collection in 2009 in its effort to overturn Maine’s same-sex marriage law, which was passed by the Legislature that year and later rejected by voters. The Catholic Church isn’t actively campaigning this time, instead focusing on teaching parishioners about the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman.
Father’s Day, June 17, seemed an appropriate time to kick off this year‘s fundraising campaign because of the day’s focus on family, Conley said. Additional collection-plate offerings at churches are expected in the months ahead.
“The messaging we‘re using is that those who are seeking to redefine marriage in Maine believe there’s no difference between moms and dads,” Conley told The Associated Press. “We believe those differences are relevant. We don’t think the differences in the genders are societally imposed roles, and we believe that children benefit when they‘re in that ideal environment where there’s a mom and dad.”
Protect Marriage Maine has been in contact with about 800 churches across the state and expects 150 to 200 to participate in the Father’s Day collections, Conley said. They include Methodist, Baptist, Pentecostal, Nazarene, Church of God, Wesleyan, Evangelical Free, Advent Christian and other denominations.
While many churches are joining the campaign against the referendum, others of various denominations are working to support the ballot measure.
Some churches have hosted phone banks where congregation members have made calls in favor of the referendum, said the Rev. Sue Gabrielson, the minister at the Sanford Unitarian Universalist Church. Other churches have held educational forums and training sessions on door-to-door canvassing.
The referendum, she said, is about inclusion, a “loving God” and being nonjudgmental and compassionate.
“What we want is for people to know that this is a religious issue,” she said.
Episcopal Bishop Gene Robinson of New Hampshire, who created an international uproar when he became the first openly gay bishop in the Anglican church in 2003, is coming to Maine in early June on behalf of the campaign in support of gay marriage. He will appear at three screenings of the film “Love Free or Die,” which depicts his life, in Portland, Lewiston and Ellsworth.
Churches in Maine and elsewhere have raised money from parishioners for political campaigns in the past on issues including gay rights, doctor-assisted suicide, abortion and gambling.
Federal law prohibits churches and other 501(c) (3) charitable organizations from supporting or opposing candidates running for office, either through financial contributions or endorsements, said Brent Walker, executive director of the Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty, a Washington advocacy group that supports separation of church and state.
“But they can, with near impunity, support issues and causes, including same-sex marriage referenda,” Walker said.
Supporters of Maine’s ballot question have said they expect to raise $5 million or more for their campaign. Opponents have said they expect to raise far less, but collection plate offerings will go a long way toward helping fund the campaign, Conley said.
Conley has been in Washington, D.C., this week at a pastors conference organized by the conservative Family Research Council. There, he met with other gay marriage opponents from Minnesota, Washington and Maryland, where same-sex marriage ballot initiatives are being debated.
Minnesota will decide in November whether a ban on gay marriage should be part of the state constitution. Maryland and Washington are expected to have ballot measures seeking to overturn same-sex marriage laws that were recently passed by their legislatures.
Conley’s also seeking endorsements from well-known pastors who might be willing to record video and audio clips that can be played at churches taking part in Maine’s collection-plate drive, he said. Those clips would also be sent to the state’s Christian radio stations as public service announcements.
Conley said he realized churches should play a central role in the Maine campaign after being in North Carolina earlier this month when voters approved an amendment to the state constitution affirming that marriage may only be a union of a man and a woman.
“I was impressed with the coordination I saw among the faith community in North Carolina,” he said.
Popular Stories
MSNBC Host Snaps in Heated Segment: ‘What in the World Is Riskier Than Being a Poor Person in America?’ 676 Comments
Does Misstated Marathon Claim Prove Paul Ryan Is Dishonest? (POLL) 628 Comments
‘Jumah at the DNC’ Speaker: ‘Muslims Visited America Prior to Columbus’ & ‘It Was a Muslim’ Who Guided Him to the ‘New World’ 522 Comments
Obama: RNC Like Watching ‘Black-and-White TV’ Because Romney ‘Did Not Offer a Single New Idea’ 360 Comments
Have You Seen the Giant ‘Sand Obama’ Sculpture in Charlotte? 311 Comments
Faith
This Is the Creationists‘ Response to Scientist Bill Nye’s Viral Pro-Evolution Video Claiming They Harm Children 123 Comments- Pakistani Muslim Cleric Accused of Framing Disabled Christian Girl in Koran-Burning Case Read More
- ‘Made Up Religion’: TV Historian Enrages Muslims, Receives Threats After Producing UK Documentary Questioning Islam’s Beginnings 173 Comments
Meet the Controversial German Imam Accused of Brutally Beating His Wife & Pushing Sharia Law Read More
‘Self-Proclaimed Messiah’ & Unification Church Leader the Rev. Sun Myung Moon Has Died — Here’s His Life Story Read More
Business
- Germany’s Upcoming Court Ruling Will be Huge for the EU Read More
Ford Looks to Beat Toyota for Best-Selling Car in 2012 With This Model 146 Comments
Bernanke & QE3: Here’s What You Need to Know Read More- ‘Extortion’: Why Did the Labor Department ‘Drop the Hammer’ on Oregon Farmers? 300 Comments
Scathing New Ad Capitalizes on Rep. Ryan‘s ’Fading Obama Posters’ Remark 124 Comments
Technology
- This Is the Creationists‘ Response to Scientist Bill Nye’s Viral Pro-Evolution Video Claiming They Harm Children 123 Comments
‘TaserDrone’: Hackers Weaponize Quadcopter With Actual ‘Shocking’ Technology Read More
Ever Heard of the Wild ‘Burning Man’ Festival in the Middle of the Nev. Desert? Here’s Your Primer Read More
Stanford Develops Technology ‘Better Than Steroids’ for Athlete Recovery Read More
Have You Pretended to Know What ‘the Cloud’ Is? You’re Not Alone Read More
Submitting your tip... please wait!
Comments (164)
willjr1
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 3:38pmGay Marriage is not a civil right, it is requesting a special right. Everyone, and yes everyone in the country already has the exact same rights when it comes to marriage, everyone can marry someone of the opposite sex. In most states people cannot marry someone of the same sex. There is no distinction between homosexual and heterosexual ever mentioned in any of that. Stop asking for special rights for a particular group. Homosexuals have already taken away heterosexual rights and beliefs in the military and are therefore government endorsed with more self-control which is absurd. Why do I say this, currently aboard ship the military have no choice but to share the same showers with homosexuals, why is it that a homosexual would be able to show with a heterosexual and not be compelled to approach a heterosexual due to their inability to control themselves. Heterosexuals of opposite sex cannot shower together for that reason, so why are homosexuals given those special rights and privileges. I do not hate gays, I do not agree with their lifestyle, I also do not feel they should rate any special rights. No one should be able to marry anyone of the same sex whether they are homosexual or heterosexual. I really like the bias that goes into some posts though as I have read through here and I see someone say this guy is a liar he has no proof but then they don’t offer any proof of where he is a liar.
Report Post »pollyanna
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 6:56pmI have a cousin (who I have loved since the day he was born) He has a male best friend for at least 15 years…I’ve encouraged him to make sure their wills were intact, should something medically devastating happen to either of them. I don’t judge him. I love him and his bf as well. They are good people. I think one of the biggest issues for same sex couples may be legal ones.
Report Post »Marriage is one thing. (a God given covenant) But legal wills should be available to all? Are they not?
Chuck Stein
Posted on May 26, 2012 at 5:30pm@ pollyana
Report Post »Yes, people are free to make bequests as they see fit. In fact marriage is one of the few limitations on that right — depending on the jurisdiction, there is a certain portion of a decedent’s estate that CANNOT be willed away from a surviving spouse.
The notion that we need laws to allow “civil contracts” between homosexual pairings is simply erroneous. They can exchange durable powers relating to medical decision, can have mutual wills, etc. How expensive is it? If the homosexual lobby were to spend a small fraction of the money it spends trying to impose homosexual “marriage” on states, civil contracts for homosexual pairing desiring such arrangements could be absolutely free of charge.
teamarcheson
Posted on May 26, 2012 at 6:07pmI Love It.
Report Post »Hova
Posted on May 27, 2012 at 2:23amUnless you can prove otherwise, the “everyone has the right to marry the opposite sex” argument falters because there is no distinguishing trait that splits the rights of the man and the rights of the woman in a legal relationship. Since the role of wife and the role of husband are essentially the same, due to the fact that both roles are essentialy there for the commitment of one another despite the gender, defining marriage as a purely heterosexual concept is completely arbitrary.you can’t argue religious grounds either, since people of all faiths, and no faith, are afforded the right to marry within their worldview.
Report Post »Chuck Stein
Posted on May 27, 2012 at 2:36am@ Hova
Report Post »Hasn’t anyone told you where babies come from?
infortheride
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 3:23pmWHAT!!!!! They do not want ADAM & STEVE???
Report Post »Kitkarr
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 2:18pmAmen.
Report Post »sbmmomma
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 1:28pmThank God
Report Post »MIBUGNU2
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 3:21pmThank you Joe Biden for bringing this BS to light before
Report Post »we got into the elections.. need to be addressing the
issues and O’Blamers record during Sept. and Oct.
instead of the war on women and this Gay Shi**…
Did they not know Latinos are Catholic, HUH ????
DUMP THIS INCOMPETENT ADMINISTRATION-2012
1TANKERYANKER
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 1:24pmThank God for this, I pray that it will update into the headline “All of the churches in America have teamed up to help defeat Gay Marriage, Abortions, and Obamacare in our country” Come on pastors where are you ??
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 1:35pmWe are really in the Tank… if Good & Evil are not Self Apparent!
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on May 26, 2012 at 1:51amYep, it’s so apparent that you cheer on a human sacrifice 2,000 years ago to cure humans for the mistake of being born.
Report Post »gbfreak
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 1:12pmum….being pro marriage is not anti-gay. If they don’t like the Churchs teachings, they can start their own gay church. There is no need to infiltrate established religion – if they do, it’s only a political ploy – right from the Cas Sunsteen manifesto!
Report Post »The Third Archon
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 5:21pmIf you were “pro-marriage” wouldn’t you want MORE and not LESS marriage? Wouldn‘t that mean you’d have to be FOR and not AGAINST marital rights for homosexual couples? Seems to me, given that the only DIFFERENCE between marriages ALLOWED between couples in the status quo and those DISALLOWED between couples in the status quo are that in the FORMER case the couples are straight, while in the LATTER case the couples are gay…so yeah, anti-gay is pretty accurate as that’s the ONLY DISTINGUISHABLE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO GROUPS, and therefore the only THING you could possible be discriminating on the basis of.
Report Post »Jaycen
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 6:12pm@The Third Archon
Yes, it‘s quite clear you don’t argue from a position of logic. Pro-marriage = more marriage? No. It means you’re “for getting married”.
I can be pro-marriage when I suggest young people shouldn’t “hook up”, but should marry so their likely offspring will grow up in a stable, 2-parent home. That’s a single example of how your False Choice Fallacy (there are only 2 choices, mine and your horribly wrong one) falls apart.
Your later False Choice Fallacy hints at your elitism, that you can know what someone’s really thinking and feeling without even talking to them. It’s insulting, to say the least. Do you think you have special powers other humans don’t have? Do you think you’re God? Do you think you’re so smart, you can discern other peoples’ thoughts and motives regardless of what they say or how they behave?
Your vaccuous intellectual dishonesty makes me sad.
Report Post »jeanr
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 9:25pmJAYCEN: The divorce rate in America for first marriage is 41%, the divorce rate in America for second marriage is 60%, and the divorce rate in America for third marriage is 73%. Plus when you work in my field, you see a lot of marriages may look all nice and stable, but they are horribly disfunctional and destructive. I certainly don’t know the stats on how many are like that, but I would think any reasonable person would agree this is fairly common. So with heteros divorcing, remarrying, and staying in many unhealthy relationships, what exactly are you all scared of gays doing to your precious sacrament?
Report Post »Azzman
Posted on May 26, 2012 at 11:02am@JEANR – your logic is flawed along with your morality. Just because marriage ends in divorce does not discount the sacrament of marriage. There is a bar set for marriage and just because many couples fall short of that bar does impair marriage in general. Conservatives don’t try to change the bar like liberal progressive try to do. Conservative acknowledge that there is a standard for marriage and that man fals hort of that standard sometimes quite often. But becuase many fall short, it does not mean that we change the standard, we strive to achieve a standard.
Report Post »Azurite
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 1:10pmLets all just try to be nonjudgemental and tolerant. Unless of course you are a conservative.
Report Post »girlnurse
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 2:18pmAZURITE: Non-judgemental and tolerant??
Report Post »What if I came into your bath house and said; “Okay we’re changing the rules here–there’s going to be no more men on men sex”. You wouldn’t like it would you?
Well that is what the militant gays are doing to an entire society who for over 200 years is based on marriage is between a man and a woman-homosexuality is SIN (lets call it what it is), but you want to march in and CHANGE the whole thing….like a sex change operation and WE Christians are supposed to say, “Oh okay..of course we are tolleRANT of sin, come’on down-go ahead…maybe we should invite child molesters, NAMBLA members too”….sure come on in.” Ummm it’s not gonna happen. “As for me and my house, we WILL serve the Lord”
ModerationIsBest
Posted on May 26, 2012 at 2:47amUh, for it to be equivalent to your scenario they would have to barge in and saying “OKAY WE’RE NOT ALLOWING ANYMORE HETEROSEXUAL MARRIAGE.”
You make zero sense.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on May 26, 2012 at 2:50amAlso, did you just compare homosexuality to child abusers/molesters?
You can’t be tolerant of two consenting adults in love being treated equally to two other consenting adults in love.
I can’t be tolerant of your stupidity.
How can your view your intolerance as more righteous? Oh yeah, because you’re stupid.
Seems clear.
Report Post »Azzman
Posted on May 26, 2012 at 11:07amNobody tolerates good behavior, we only tolerate bad behavior.
Report Post »Bro. Chuck
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 12:12pmFolks need to stand up and say one thing……
Gay people have the ability (and right) to choose…
it is not you, or I, or any other that will cause their heart to change…
As for me?
I know that it is between them and the Lord…
let them throw their hissy fits and stomp and holler -
at the end of the day they will be held to account.
They will never convince me to “accept” their way…
they will never get me to “condone” their behavior & predillections (sp?)
and they will never, ever get me to see the self-centered desires of their darkened souls for anything other than what it really is -
An Abomination before The Most High!
It is sin.
And even though they are trying to diminish the “angst” they feel in doing their abhorrant actions,
they “think” if they just make it “legal” or “acceptable”, well, then God our Father can’t be “mad” at them and damn them to eternal hellfire, right?
The wicked mind has its own logic,
its own reason wherein it tries to justify -
for the sole purpose to assuage the guilt they can never run far enough away from.
Wouldn’t it be so much better for them if they were to fall on their faces before our Creator and ask His forgiveness for their selfish & rebellious behaviours?
Wouldn’t the Shalom of our Saviour Yeshua be better to carry and have joy in ?
rather than this consuming destroying “ideal”?
Father, reveal Your Truth and Gracious Mercy to those so decieved by Satan….
Report Post »In Yeshua’s pre
Bro. Chuck
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 12:35pmBlaze?
I hate when I get cut off….. Grrrrr
So to finish my thoughts, I applaud the churches for affirming what is right before the Lord and speaking out against the Gay folks efforts to enact legislation that would “legitimize” their actions….
just don’t get distracted and caught up in “the stand”….
It is the Lord’s place to deal with their hearts according to His Will….
Boy, wouldn’t they really get their panties in a bunch if they knew that maybe He is turning His back on them and turning them over to the ruler of this earth?
to remove that Silent Voice that whispers to them the true error and evil of their ways?
I pray for all the lost, but moreso these poor deceived souls….
they are truely lost and on that “highway to hell”….
And as believers?
We need to reach out to our Lord now, more than ever, as we see these “assaults” on our morals increasing both in frequency (as well as absurdity)….
Ask Him to reveal His Way, and re-assure us in His Plan for humanity, as well as our place in His Kingdom!
As for me and my house,
We will serve The Lord……
Be Bless’d
Bro. Chuck
Report Post »jzs
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 12:39pmBRO, good Christians like you said the same exact things about interracial marriage. Here’s a typical quote: “Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races show that he did not intend for the races to mix.”
In my opinion you should try to do some good for the poor or convert people to Christianity. If you want to go after sex crimes, and impose your beliefs on others, why don’t you start with fornicators which outnumber homosexuals about 20 to 1?
Report Post »libchem
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 12:50pmJZS, uhhh, where to start? How about here; Christian give more in charity to “the poor” (that you claim to be concerned about) than ALL other people combined. Man, don‘t you hate it when the truth get’s in the way of your trolling?
Report Post »edcoil
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 1:05pmWhy is it called “Anti-Gay” seems to already show bais.
How about calling it “Pro-traditional marriage”.
Report Post »JimL
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 1:06pmSZJ: Joycelyn Elders who?
Report Post »jzs
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 1:11pmlibchem, uh, you’re off topic. Try to stay focused.
Report Post »girlnurse
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 1:15pmYou both have good points! Bro Chuck, I agree with what you say. God does not hold one sin above another, sin is sin, BUT JZS we are talking about perverting an entire generation and those after it if we let this thing play out the way the homosexuals want. To compare this to interacial marriage is wrong and so different I don’t even know where to begin! But JZS is right about this..preachers need to start preaching against sin again! Yes, fornication is rampant and no better than homosexuality!
Report Post »Bro. Chuck
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 1:18pmJZS…..
Too quick to respond, and no discernment in your heart.
“In my opinion you should try to do some good for the poor or convert people to Christianity. If you want to go after sex crimes, and impose your beliefs on others, why don’t you start with fornicators which outnumber homosexuals about 20 to 1?”
I could be trite, but for you I will thank you instead…. wherein do you take from my words that I am “going after sex crimes”? my post does exactly as you infer I should act. I don’t judge.
I pray that these poor souls have their eyes opened and the deception upon them be removed.
did I not refer to the Silent Voice? My prayer for the lost that they seek that out for their salvation? How can we walk if we do not have a Guide?
If we know not the Way, than any “way” becomes its replacement.
All sin is sin – there is none worse than any other, because sin separates us from our Creator. Its when we stop seeking to be restored into relationship with Him that we stray in the error of our own thinking. What is wrong becomes right.
Many men in their zeal to be “spiritual or holy” have erred…. Mixed racial relationships? They occurred in the Bible, so what? God will either honor or curse – His perogative.
The Lord puts His law into our hearts.
The Ruach HaKodesh is what reveals the Truth in & of that Law.
We are Sanctified – set apart – when we know our God and hearken to His Will.
Be Bless’d in Yeshua…
Bro. Chuck
Report Post »libchem
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 1:55pm@JZS, Your words, “In my opinion you should try to do some good for the poor…”
Report Post »How ’bout you stay on topic, troll, instead of hitting several slights in one response.
EqualJustice
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 2:57pmedcoil, SAME reason they use PRO CHOICE instead of PRO ABORTION.
Report Post »Patriot of My America
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 8:25pmVery well written and eloquently spoken. I admire your mind as it is focused as the Lord our God has intended. And I say Amen, and Amen..
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on May 26, 2012 at 2:27am@EQUALJUSTICE
Uh, those two things aren’t comparable with the wording you used.
You can be pro choice, but personally against abortion. To be PRO abortion, your stance would have to be something along the lines of,”I want every pregnant woman to get an abortion.” I for one wouldn’t choose an abortion, but I am also not for stripping the rights of other people to choose.
I think the equivalent to that in terms of marriage would be, “I am pro traditional marriage, but I am also against stripping the ability of gay people to get married.”
Unfortunately, that isn’t your stance.
@Bro.Chuck
Who is this guy and what nonsense is he preaching? How have I never come across you on here before?
Your humbleness before your God is heart-warming considering how you talk about their “self centered darkened hearts” while you continually saying “I will not accept this” , “I will not condone that”, “for me personally.” Get over yourself. Let‘s not even get into the point where you start speculating your God’s will, because that is just outright laughable.
How also can you talk about gay people being self centered? I’m sure as a Christian you believe that this whole universe was created with us in mind? Isn’t that one of the most egotistical, self centered statements ever to be uttered? The WHOLE universe…..for us? Seems kind of wasteful does it not?
I look forward to your next sermon, I need a good laugh.
Report Post »Bro. Chuck
Posted on May 27, 2012 at 2:01amMod is best…..
I don’t see it as preaching….
That would be telling people what to do -
I only offer an opinion.
Wherein is it inappropriate to state the conviction of my opinion?
I am not asking or “preaching” for anyone to hearken unto my words…..
I only hope one reads and looks inward or seeks their own understanding.
Is it wrong to say that one who is out of relationship with the Creator, due to their own desire to embrace that which is considered “sin”, does so out of their own “self-centered-ness”? Are they more focused on themselves than seeking the Father’s Will?
isn’t being disobedient the ultimate selfishness?
I only base my understanding of “my God’s Will” on what He has imparted through scripture for anyone who seeks Him to read, study, and embrace as Truth.
As for “this whole universe created with us in mind”? Please don’t put words in my mouth or think you are pulling thoughts from my head. I don’t know how you got to me uttering an “egotistical comment”, but think on this – everything is HIS creation… not in mind for me, but for HIM. It seems this “terra firma” was all that was created for us in this physical “incarnation”…
as you’ve surmised I am a Believer. You then also know my hope is in something greater beyond just this….
don’t be so cynical, Bro….
rather than a good laugh,
you should seek your own answers
Be bless’d….
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on May 27, 2012 at 2:33am@BRO. CHUCK
You don’t know what preaching is then.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on May 27, 2012 at 2:48am@BRO. CHUCK
You’re a lunatic, you really are.
Is it being selfish for a slave to be disobedient to their brutal master?
Is it being selfish for a kid to be disobedient against a parent who physically harms them?
I can never tell with you religious nuts what exactly it is that you “believe.”
Do you believe in free will? Shouldn’t that then mean people have the free will to reject God and “sin” all we want?
Surely your all loving, all powerful God wouldn‘t demand love from his creation only to visit mass suffering on those who don’t love him? If this is the case, free will is POINTLESS.
If your God is all powerful, and is the creator of EVERYTHING, why would he create sin? Something that he despises so much he’s willing to send his creation into an eternity of torture for “committing”
Also, why did your God create us? Surely for not our sake because we could never be upset for not being born. Did he create us to fulfill his own ego and his own desire to be love? If so, doesn’t your God sound awfully human?
What if I search for my own answers(I have) and they are separate from the one your God is pleased with(they are)? Surely he won’t punish me for that?
I will never take anything you say to heart because you’re an idiot.
Report Post »Bro. Chuck
Posted on May 27, 2012 at 10:12amMod….
I speak correctly about the “word” preaching…
it used to be a good word…
people would go to hear “preaching” -
The Word….
Seek it out to answer Life’s mysteries.
they would let it flow over them and they would seek personal meaning in it….
Now?
it’s a pejorative that is slung around -
conviction, condemnation, guilt, that self-centeredness we were discussing earlier….
I believe (just my humble opinion) that it reveals sort of a “Spritual Angst” property when it is transmuted into a derrogatory connotation…
i mean, c’mon….
just by your raising it this way, the next words out of your mouth should be “don’t “preach” to me.
don’t lay all of that on me about “your God”…. “I” don’t want to hear it… no?
Our Creator has a way for us to understand:
or…
we can seek, in our own understanding, a way that seems “right” to us…
Therein is your right of free will – to choose exactly what you want.
I’m not condemning you….
and I’m not judging you….
I’m not even saying you need to “follow in my footsteps”..
God forbid!
I share what I have come to find and the understanding I have been given.
Just seek Him…
you should understand your “choice” as being:
Do you want to pursue a different understanding of what you believe…
or are you confident and comfortable in your present “reality”?
If you’d like, I’ll keep you in my prayers brother….
Report Post »take that moment, get quiet,
and ask HIM the
ModerationIsBest
Posted on May 27, 2012 at 3:21pm@Bro.Chuck
No, here is your response to when I said you were preaching
“I don’t see it as preaching….
That would be telling people what to do -
I only offer an opinion.”
I then said, “You don’t know what preaching is then.”
You made two consecutive posts with great detail, using metaphors, with conviction. THAT is preaching.
If you simply came on here and made a logical post, that is one thing, but you didn’t.
Go back and read your post I was talking about, if you don‘t think that’s preachy then my claim still stands…you don’t know what preaching is.
Preaching isn’t as you said, “telling people what to do.
I don’t care if you pray for me, it would be no different if you didn’t pray for me. Either way you will find some circular reasoning as to why your prayer either does or doesn’t work. I have PLENTY of friends and family praying for me, and I spend numerous amounts of time with them, yet I’m not one step closer to “believing” in anything, much less a God.
Second, why would you want to “believe” anything? I’d much rather :“think” something because my thinking is based on evidence, logic, common sense, reasoning and reality. “Believing” allows me to form the reality of my world without evidence, logic, common sense and reasoning….why would I want that? Why would YOU want that?
Report Post »Bro. Chuck
Posted on May 27, 2012 at 5:46pmMod,
Thank’s for bearing with me -
it isn’t often that folks take time to reason ….
examining words so that their “gravity and essence” are what get taken to heart…
Its exactly to avoid being “preachy” that I try to be careful in the words I use…
I’d rather someone see empathy or compassion that is for another…
than to dismiss because a Word comes across as “harsh” or “preachy”
I’ve been given a lot in this life, and I struggle with many things. But, Bless God, he is faithful to reveal things as well.
Folks that are too flippant or unwilling to step up & open their heart….
I don’t do it in condescension or “holier than thou”….
no, my hope is that some will stop and consider.
I know its a tall order when you look out upon all of this and see what is tugging at our souls…
But ask yourself….
if it doesn’t matter to believe in anything, nothing is lost either way – whether you do or don’t.
but if it does matter? doesn’t our very existence warrant seeking out that one answer?
Does it Matter?
I used to think it didn’t..
I used to be self absorbed and not so aware of bigger-picture things.
I believe there is something bigger… that has us on this path through life.
Report Post »I can tell you this – when you ask?
truly ask…
sit down and open your heart…
Have you been lied to?
is there nothing but random and happenstance?
or IS there an order… a Plan…?
Is God working something most can’t understand?
is it as s
Bro. Chuck
Posted on May 27, 2012 at 5:57pmis it as simple as asking Him the What’s & Why’s?
I believe yes to all of those.
I believe that prayer is something of intense importance. Friends, family, complete strangers…
prayer is real and it has real results…Read about Cornelius in Acts 2
Many make mistakes in how we pray & what we pray for…
prayer can even “harden” a soul if that soul is in a level of separation (rebellion) from / to God…
right now, you may not be “ even one step closer…”
but there are things you see…. things you feel…
questions and un-answers.
Humanity is seeing some really insane stuff in these times when you think about it…
20-30 years ago people didn’t think as they do today.
people didn‘t ’latch onto” things in the numbers that are today.
It’s becoming the norm, rather than the ‘abberration”.
there has to be a reason this “reality” is becoming the one most are preferring.
no absolutes – everything is “relative”….
It’s written men will turn to the desires of their hearts instead of looking up to the Creator and appreciating what we have been given…
He never promised us a mercedes or Mcmansion… those are ideals we decided to pursue, no?
I believe that we bounce around in this “reality” because we have abdicated the reality that was intended for us..
We’ve accepted a lie that this is all there is – grab it and growl and whatever….
everyone for themselves.
But that’s not the way it started…
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on May 28, 2012 at 2:00am@Bro
How can you say nothing is lost by “believing” something?
Reason is lost on belief
Rationality is lost on belief
What would I “gain” by “believing” in the same God as you?
I would then have to accept that I “believe” a human sacrifice 2,000 years ago was necessary to wipe slate “my sins” that I was naturally born with? I think that is absolutely sickening and wouldn‘t want and wouldn’t choose someone to pay for my supposed “sin.” I didn’t ask for such a sacrifice, I don‘t think one is necessary and I don’t accept it. If not “believing” that sentences me to an eternity of torment, so be it. I don’t need a scapegoat. You may feel the need for a scapegoat, I don’t.
I would then have to accept that I ‘believe“ people are worthy and it is justified that they be subjected to an eternity of torture simply for not ”believing” as I do? Pure nonsense and pure evil.
I would then have to accept that I “believe” my God is all loving, when he visits mass destruction and pain on an insane scale? I can’t look at such things with rose colored glasses.
Religion is so masochistic. You hate yourself so much it’s sad. You blame every bad thing on how wretched you and other humans are, and give all the credit to your God for positive events/actions. It’s pure lunacy.
Report Post »Bro. Chuck
Posted on May 28, 2012 at 12:43pmGood morning, Mod,
I hope the day finds you well.
your comments are totally rational -
given context within which we understand and “rationalize” things…
people through the ages, including now you and I, have struggled to understand paradoxes.
I’ll ask you this-
Is losing reason and rationality really a loss, if you reach beyond a premise and see maybe those aspects came to us as part of a distraction / deception that keeps us out of relationship with our Creator?
As for Yeshua’s sacrifice, its not about what we ask for… or what we expect.
How would you react if you are walking along and a family man pushes you out of the way of something you were un-aware of, and saves your life – and in the process sacrifices his life?
did you ask for that?
did you deserve it?
Would you dust yourself off and say, “wow, what an idiot”….
Or would you reach out to his family?… try to discern what he was “about”…?
Seek out the answers to satisfy your ‘curiousity” as to the “why”?
Could you see yourself being consumed by that search because you didn’t understand and couldn’t rationalize his action and sacrifice?
All you know is he thought it was important enough to step in on your behalf…
Paul (Saul) didn’t ask for the revelation he received on the road to Damscus, yet God in His Wisdom
“allowed” him to understand in his heart when Jesus revealed His Truth there…
I agree – “religion” is a very bad thing -
Report Post »rea
ModerationIsBest
Posted on May 28, 2012 at 12:59pm@BRO. CHUCK
Firstly. Yes, reason is ALWAYS a loss. Why would your God give us the power of reason if it was seen as a negative?
Secondly
The difference is
If given the opportunity, I would go back and make it so that person didn’t have to push me out of the way whereas if given the opportunity, you wouldn’t go back and try to stop Jesus from getting crucified. You NEED him to die for your “sins.”
Thirdly, I can respect the person’s decision to push me out of the way. But if the person’s parents then said, “oh well now you can just worship him every single day. Oh and he has a certain way he wants you to live your life and oh if you don’t believe that after he pushed you out of the way, he actually ascended into a higher plane of existence, and if you don’t believe that it happened you will be sent to a lower plane of existence where you will be punished for an eternity.”
I would then respond with, as you put it, “wow what an idiot.”
You are talking to me as like I’ve never tried “believing” as you do. I tried it off and on for 6 years and I could no longer suspend my disbelief in the nonsense that the Bible spits out. It was only after trying that, reading the Bible and actually thinking about what it says and what it means, did I realize that it’s pointless to “believe” anything. Why believe in something when I can think about something? I have thought about the possibility of a God, and I think it’s highly unlikely.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on May 28, 2012 at 1:05pm@Bro.
I think it’s unlikely on two counts.
1. That there is a God at all
2. That there is much less a specific God
Let me ask you.
How much “searching” have you done?
Have you tried all of the different religions or have you only looked into/followed the one your in now?
Have you tried valuing rational thought over belief or faith?
Or have you been in the same belief/church/denomination since you were a kid?
The only reason I ask is because you keep talking to me about searching and questioning and I really wonder how much you have done, or if you are just the same religion as your parents because they indoctrinated you when you were a kid.
I have actually tried Christianity, I have tried “believing” in a God and after many years, many questions I have come to the conclusion that it is very unlikely(notice I didn‘t say there ISN’T one), that there is a God.
If you haven’t actually questioned your faith, and I mean legitimately question your faith, I suggest you give yourself the challenge you gave me. Actually try out something different and see where it leads you.
Report Post »Bro. Chuck
Posted on May 28, 2012 at 1:18pm“Reason & rationalization” is what forms religion -
isn‘t it man’s “creation” of what we believe that “God” is – a higher power… a super-natural being ….
our Creator… that of course is necessarily “bigger” than ourselves?
Religion is what causes yet more deceptions and distractions –
because it divides and alienates from Truth.
its only when we reach back beyond the “religion”… (all the lies)
and seek out the Truth that we can understand – no reason – no rationality….
only the Truth of What Is.
Many folk look to man to explain….
that is flawed reason, because man is not the author of the plan.
he has not “created” the way.
Our Father does love us.
He wants us to realize He is there –
that He Created us, and that He knows best what is to be for us.
He isn’t aloof…
He isn’t oblivious or ignoring of our plight.
This reality is the gravity of a sin committed by one, way back…
is it fair?
to our sensibilities, no..
but when measured in a timeframe of eternity, is anything less than righteous perfection wrong to be expected as the desired outcome?
Should the Creator be surrounded by any that do not “in faith” believe He is our “source”…
of everything?
Our choice is whether we want to embrace that premise and believe…
or take what touches our senses in this moment.
His love is transcendant – IF we can step beyond our preconceived definitions and expectations…
be Bless’d in Yeshua, Brother…..
Report Post »65Mustang
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 12:10pmI find it difficult to accept the doctrine of any “church” that has female pastors, reverend, preacher or any other name that “she” chooses to use to preach the Word of God…not saying they do not know the Bible, but are not qualified.
Report Post »libchem
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 12:46pmYou see troll, I mean, Enici-no matter, you do read the Bible after all; it very explicitly denies female pastors. You don’t have to like it, you can always convert to !sl@m. No, wait…
Report Post »65Mustang
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 1:43pmENCINOM: I feel so privileged that in your ignorance you responded to my post. I Timothy 2:12, “but I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” I realize that your level of intelligence in minimal…read it and weep big boy.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 3:26pmSo I guess in your world view women need to be barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen. The only ingnorance are the ones that believe the bible is anything more than an outdated book of parables and fairy tales.
Report Post »65Mustang
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 10:24pmENCINOM: Eternity is forever…enjoy spending your time there fool.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on May 26, 2012 at 2:31amAn eternity of worship and praise sounds like hell to me.
Report Post »Mainer forever
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 11:20amAs a resident of Maine. We have voted NO to same sex marriage at least 3 times in the past few years….The same sex marriage folks keep comming back and getting the same question on the ballot time after time. What don’t they understand? They can have a civil union with all the same legal rights….they want everyone to accept this “abomination” as normal…..and it isn’t “normal”.
Report Post »TheMoMary
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 11:49amI am not against it. Let them do what they want, but before people can accept it, they need to change that one word, “Marriage” call it “Forever partner” or “Soul Mate” anything but Marriage.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 12:01pm@THEMOMARY
And… let them… play with your children… teach your children… hold hands in your church… kiss at the movies… dance on your sidewalk and in the street… govern your town… make the laws (based upon their Morality)…
You can see where this going… can’t you?
Report Post »drbage
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 12:05pmFeel lucky that you are a Mainer and not a Californian. We voted with Prop 8 to ban gay marriage, but the oh-so-liberal Ninth Circuit ruled that it was unconstitutional, just before they went off on their taxpayer funded million dollar retreat. Along these same lines, when a group or an individual want to get an initiative on a ballot in a city or state, does not someone check it out for wording and legality prior to allowing it to appear on the ballot. Time and time again, we see a measure on the ballot approved or denied, but then another group brings a lawsuit and a judge throws the people’s decision out. Is this just an exercise in futility or is America’s newest silent minority(since the debate on Obamacare began), lawyers just gaming the system to fill their own personal coffers?
Report Post »encinom
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 12:28pmA BASIC CIVIL RIGHT SHOULD NEVER BE VOTED ON.
Your opinion of what others do is not the basis for deny any American his rights.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 12:50pm@ENCINOM
Report Post »Civil Rights only apply Ethnic/Minority Groups. So, I agree… there Should Be NO CIVIL RIGHTS! Assimulate into American Culture & Society… or Leave!
brother_ed
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 1:10pm@ENCINOM
Most people here believe the words of the Declaration: We are endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights…
Most also believe that this same Creator created them as male and female for a specific purpose; that someday a “man shall leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife” in order to “be fruitful and multiply”.
I’m sorry we disagree, but I do not see this in the same context as race relations – the REAL civil rights movement, which was correct. Bigotry and racism go against the Declaration; “All men are created equal”. Not accepting homosexual marriage as legitimate does not fit the denial of civil rights argument.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 2:28pm@Brother_Ed,
I don’t care what you beleive this creator person did, we are not Iran, we are not a theocracy were our loves are based on ancients myths and fairy tales.
Your basis argument is tha tyou want the government to enforce the morality taught by your religion on all people. That is against everything the Constitution stands for.
Report Post »brother_ed
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 5:21pm@ENCINOM
The Declaration gives a starting point – that is “we are endowed by our Creator…”
It then gives a list of grievances that are in opposition to this purported claim.
That is the basis for the founding of this country. A belief in a Creator who has given us rights. The dominant religion in this country has been, and continues to be, Christianity.
As such, our laws are largely based on Christian concepts.
As a tolerant religion (yes, many fail, but it is a religion of tolerance), there is allowance for sinful behavior in our legal system. Not everyone is Christian, and that is tolerated. You are free to attend church, or not. You are free to divorce, or not. You are free to be childless, or not. You are free to do many things which a good Christian would not engage in. You are also free to not engage in things that a good Christian would.
However, there are certain tenets which cannot be abided, and we defend those. You are not free to murder, steal or bear false witness. Homosexual marriage falls into this category.
I am sorry if a loose outline of religion affecting our laws makes you believe we are a theocracy, but I think a rational viewpoint would suggest otherwise.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 8:59pm@Brother_ED
“As a tolerant religion (yes, many fail, but it is a religion of tolerance), there is allowance for sinful behavior in our legal system. Not everyone is Christian, and that is tolerated. You are free to attend church, or not. You are free to divorce, or not. You are free to be childless, or not. You are free to do many things which a good Christian would not engage in. You are also free to not engage in things that a good Christian would.”
My rights have nothing to do with the whims of the Christian Fasicists. My rights to live who I see fit is not because you Christian have decided not to allow it. We are not in Iran or any other theocracy, our govenrment is a SECULAR REPUBLIC, learning to be free from the decay and cancer of ancient myths and supersitions. Religion belongs in the dust bin of history, until then KEEP IT OUT OF OUR GOVERNMENT AND OUT OF THE LIVES AND HOMES OF PEOPLE WHO KNOW BETTER.
Report Post »OutOnTheTiles
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 10:29pm@Encinom
Is nature a Bigot too for favoring the union between a man and a women over that of homosexuals? How does nature favor heterosexual relationships you ask? Biology 101.
Report Post »brother_ed
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 11:20pm@ENCINOM
You are free because of Christianity’s influence on the philosophers, the founding fathers, and pioneers of this great country. We were not founded by Turks, Chinese or Africans, rather by Christian Europeans who sought for freedom to choose, as they believed God would want it.
You have your own opinion, but I’m afraid history would argue otherwise.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on May 26, 2012 at 2:42am@LUKERW
Haha, guy just said he is against civil rights. Enough said.
@Ed
Please show me the law that defined marriage between only a man and a woman. Surely if it were a law, these states wouldn’t just NOW be passing constitutional amendments to it, correct?
Most marriage licenses are a piece of paper with two lines for the people to sign. There is usually no place for the man and the woman to sign. So the definition came from OUTSIDE the law.
I was recently at jury duty and one of the questions they ask is “Are you or have you ever been married?” What is a gay person who is in a civil union supposed to say to that? No? Well, they have a civil union so they have all the rights of a married person, but they aren’t DEFINITION wise “married.” If they say yes, are they then lying under oath? Should they be forced to separate themselves from everyone else by saying, “No i’m not married, but I have a civil union”?
Report Post »Maineteacher1
Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:07pmFirst off, being from Maine as well, let’s actually use facts when talking about this. 1) Maine has only voted once (that’s 1 time, not 3) to not allow Same-sex marriage 2) The vote in 2009 was split 53% to 47%, only 30,000 votes separated the sides. This vote was by no means a landslide victory. So lets stop pretending that an overwhelming majority in Maine are against same-sex marriage.
On another note, I too, would support civil unions and be happy with them. However, in case you were not aware the Catholic Church and NOM (the biggest pro traditional marriage group) do not support Civil unions of any kind. You might say you support them, but judging by your harsh language describing gays, I somehow doubt it
Report Post »adeleeeee
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 11:01am@MOUSSIAGILDA
Your mind is as dirty as your mouth for which viciously attack these ppl who hold a right call “free speech” by naming this movement moronic. I would like to know how you define intelligent? Yourself?
If you want happiness satisfaction, go on. All you definition of happiness, satisfaction will lead to what? Would you be able to pay for the consequences if you mistakenly define your happiness, satisfaction? I would like to warn you… your definition of happiness satisfaction will determine your life quality in the eternity. And I heard eternity is longer than your lifetime. Think about it as a threat.
Report Post »Uncurable wound
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 11:00amMay God be their shield and their sword!
Report Post »Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 10:56amGlad to see more and more leaders of the churches are standing for what is RIGHT.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 11:05amGiven that only 4% of the population are Gay… why does this Minority gather support for their Deviation?
Report Post »okieqt
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 11:16amYes! Happy to see them working together.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 11:22amYou mean the majority of Church that rejected this campaign of bigotry and hate and not the 100 or so small minded preachers.
Report Post »Sirfoldallot
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 11:41am@ luke , the gays have lotts of money, & wacko’s following them. Wish no 1 opened that closet.
Report Post »OutOnTheTiles
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 12:14pm@Encinom Is nature a Bigot too for favoring the union between a man and a women over that of homosexuals? How does nature favor heterosexual relationships you ask? Biology 101
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on May 26, 2012 at 2:45am@LUKERW
So wait, I really want to understand you better.
Are you really saying that a smaller group of people should be subjected to different treatment just because they’re a smaller group of people?
I thought you just maybe misspoke above when you said you are against civil rights but now you’re starting to scare me.
Report Post »PETTYDRAMA
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 10:54amHateful bigots!
adeleeeee
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 11:16amCalling them bigot make you one as well. Reason why we should support homosexual marriage?
I found GLBQ spread filthy, mucky and shallow facial image as their definition of beauty. Their act of love is nothing more than all kinds of dirty sexual intercourse. They don’t have any virtue but attacking family value and pretending to be a victim hood. I oppose their ideology and their behavior. Period.
Report Post »kaydeebeau
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 11:17amyou are so correct – the homosexual lobby (and particpants) are one of the most hateful, belligerent group with a megaphone trying to legislate immorality
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 11:21amYes homosexuals are aren’t they?
Report Post »thegreatcarnac
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 10:50amYes…good for them. May this catch on and all churches begin fighting for decency. Turn back the tide of these gays and return the nation to common sense values.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 10:47amBravo Maine… there are some still alive who have not been taken by Zombies!
Report Post »N37BU6
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 10:52amZombies vs sheep… exciting.
Report Post »Pilgrimsarbour
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 11:11amZombies and sheep–not sure which is which in your statement, but I take it as a badge of honour and mercy to be one of Christ’s sheep.
Report Post »frust@ted
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 10:45amI would get up and walk out of the church and never come back. For me church is about asking for forgiveness of my sins, I’ll let others worry about their own sins.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 10:55amTry reading a History of the American Revolution… which was supported by the Churches… and where the British had order to Arrest or Kill all Ministers!
Report Post »Pilgrimsarbour
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 11:08amI agree that each individual dealing with his own sins should take up the vast majority of a believer’s time. However, it’s clear that if so-called “Gay Marriage” is federally legalised, churches will be required to perform same-sex ceremonies or be closed down. If you don’t think this will happen, just see how the Obama administration is doubling down on forcing Catholic institutions to provide abortion services, abortifacients and birth control to their employees which is against their doctrines and practices. Religious freedom is in serious jeopardy in our country. That’s why “Gay Marriage” is such a big issue.
Report Post »kaydeebeau
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 11:20amSo how exactly does one get an idea that what one is doing might be sin in need of forgiveness if what God describes as sin is not called out as sin to begin with?
Wouldn’t it seem necessary to be able to describe sins first so one could recognize what it is one needs forgiveness for doing?
Report Post »Pilgrimsarbour
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 11:50am@KAYDEEBEAU: That is the purpose of the Law handed down to God’s people and recorded for us in the Bible. The Law’s purpose is to make sin known that we might have no excuse before Him. Although we are to keep the law, no one can keep it perfectly, which is what God requires. Hence, the need to atone for sin in the death and resurrection of Christ, a beautiful and tragic mercy. But as far as our modern society goes, I would venture to say that there isn‘t a homosexual alive who doesn’t know what the Bible teaches on the subject of sexual sin. They can deny that the Bible teaches against homosexuality (one among many sexual sins), but the more honest thing to do would be to say “I don’t care what the Bible says about this.” Sadly today we have some who refuse to repent of their sins and yet want to claim the Name of Christ as their Saviour.
Report Post »Pilgrimsarbour
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 12:09pm@ENCINOM: All of the laws dealing with the protection of its citizens and passed by legislatures have a moral component to them, if not directly. Why do you think we have laws against murder, theft, assault, lying, cheating, etc.? They are all moral in nature. Some people say that we shouldn’t legislate morality. Too late.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 12:09pm@KAYDEE…
We are a Predator Species… agreeing upon very little… which means are Irrational and view Reality via Self! We are really STUPID… we elected Obama! So, to help us, GOD gave us Covenants & Laws… where HE tells us Not to Kill each other and Steal from each other!
Reject this… and Remain STUPID!
Report Post »kaydeebeau
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 1:27pmI left off the @ Frust@ted in my comment – the questions were directed at “I would get up and walk out of the church and never come back. For me church is about asking for forgiveness of my sins, I’ll let others worry about their own sins.”
Report Post »frust@ted
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 1:59pmKaydeebeau,
A good question and I wish I had a great answer to that. I think that is one of the greatest struggles that I have every day. Some sins are more obvious than others stealing and murder are fairly obvious but others for me are in a Grey area like gambling or drinking. This leads back to my orginal post on why i focus on my sins, I look to God and at myself and ask if I am living a good life, I know I’m a man riddled with sin but I pray that I can be a better man than I was yesterday. I ask God to forgive me for what I have done because I know I am an imperfect person. I will leave it in God’s hands to judge what we have done in our lives and what is a sin and what is not, I only feel we should step in when what someone is doing is directly hurting another person.
Report Post »frust@ted
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 2:06pmPilgrimsarbour
I understand and also have the same concern that churches may get sued if they don’t perform the mariages. Which is what I always tell people when they ask my stance on gay mariage, I struggle supporting it because I don’t trust our govmt. Unfortunetly I think that valid and logical concern gets lost in all the yelling and shouting that goes on in this debate. You have one side that just shouts “Man and Woman” and the other that shouts “Homophobe” and the rational people get drowned out in the debate.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 10:42amNothing like Churches and Christians being upfront and honest about their true bigotry and hatred. Each Churhc that fund raises for hate should lose their tax exempt status.
Report Post »Steelhead
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 10:51amyou are correct
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 11:00amFreedom results… from a Love of fellow man… which flows from the Golden Rule… which is relative to Morality; which is the basis of Law… which applies to a Society… and in a Democracy the Majority Rules… and the Minority suck hind Tit!
Report Post »Locked
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 11:10am“Each Churhc that fund raises for hate should lose their tax exempt status.”
That’s idiotic, as what classifies as “hate” varies from person to person; religious figures could just as easily say “There are plenty of non-profits that hate religion, strip their exempt status.” The current system is fine: if they endorse specific candidates, take their exemption; but stopping a church from raising money for the moral positions they hold is clearly a violation of the first amendment.
Report Post »okieqt
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 11:12amBigotry: “intolerance of those who hold different opinions than oneself”
Report Post »Who’s the bigot here? You assume that those who disagree with you in this opinion are full of hatred. Based on what? It would be far better to attempt to argue this with actual discussion rather than simply resorting to shallow name-calling.
encinom
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 11:17am@Locked,
But its not a moral position these Churches of Hate are taking. They are raising funds for a political campaign. God’s influence ends at the steps of the Church, we a secular nation and do not need Christians passing morality laws against all the citizens.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 11:26amThat’s nice MONICNE/ENCINOM/SLEAZY HIPPO…so it‘s ok for the homosexual lobby to litigate states into submission after the people of the states vote against homosexual beliefes but it’s not ok for advocates of sane and traditional marriage to “lawyer up” to defend their beliefs?
Report Post »By the way I’m finding it hilarious that you use “ENCINOM” to post your “serious” hatred of conservatives and christians, and you use “MONICNE” to post your mockery of conservatives and bait for me…and apparently your “MONICNE” persona is a christian as well…it doesn’t get more effed up and twisted than you MONICNE/ENCINOM/SLEAZY HIPPO.
Git-R-Done
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 11:29amEncinom – What you consider to be hate isn‘t hate by other people’s standards. Excuse me if we don’t have to meet your standards.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 11:42am@Encinom
“They are raising funds for a political campaign.”
And they have every right to do so, so long as they’re not calling upon their flock to endorse a specific candidate. The Supreme Court agrees.
“God’s influence ends at the steps of the Church, we a secular nation and do not need Christians passing morality laws against all the citizens.”
We might have a secular government, but we are FAR from a secular nation. People have always and will always be swayed by their personal beliefs, and those beliefs are often shaped by their religious views.
I agree morality laws are not needed and are anti-conservative and pro-big-government. But in this case it’s really up to the people to decide what they want to do. Do I think their money and concern is misplaced? Sure. Marriage, the kind recognized by the government, is also secular and not inherently religious – ideally it would mean that religious morality would not be imposed upon it. The money they‘re raising could go to helping people rather than blocking legislation that won’t hurt the church at all. But we as individuals have no right to tell people what they MUST do with their money. Like the churches, we can only give our opinion; the people need to choose for themselves.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 11:43amGIT R DONE..the only hate on display is ENCINOM/MONICNE/SLEAZY HIPPO’s….all christians are saying is don‘t overturn a societal norm that’s served human civiliation perfectly well to pander to less than 2% of the population’s fantasies of normalcy. There is absolutely no credible reason to legalize homosexual marriage. It’s not a “human right” to put an “ok” stamp in an aberration of the human sexual psyche. This was never about “human rights” this is only about homosexuals wanting to force their fantasies onto others.
Report Post »Git-R-Done
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 12:08pmAvengerk – I’m on your side.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 12:16pmLOCKED..do you really believe the church won’t suffer if the federal government ever recognizes homosexual marriage? Again..your myopic views prevent you from seeing the bigger picture.
The homosexual lobby is zealously, pathologically litigious. Any institution or enterprise after a federal mandate ratifying homosexual marriage that doesn’t participate in the homosexual fantasy will be sued for “discrimination” and hounded into oblivion. Church protections won‘t matter just as we’ve seen with Obamacare’s “constraceptive” mandate. Any church hall or business (private or churchrun) that doesn’t want to accomodate a homosexual wedding will be singled out, vilified, targeted and litigated against. This is EXACTLY what the homosexual lobby does today.
I’ve seen NOTHING to make me believe the homosexual lobby will stop at a federal ratification of homosexual marriage and end their aspirations there. They want to remove all resistance to their agenda and they have a particular dislike for the church as you see ENCINOM/MONICNE/SLEAZY HIPPO displaying right now. Genuine rights will be eroded- not the homosexuals’ made up ones- if the federal government ever ratifies homosexual marriage. Let the states decide for themselves and leave the federal government out of it. One size fits all is not the answer to the homosexual marriage question.
Report Post »Lloyd Drako
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 12:22pmEncinom & Locked:
Report Post »Preaching hate or not preaching hate, why should churches have tax exempt status in the first place?
encinom
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 12:25pmTo be honest Locked, the People should have no political voice in this, no more so than the overturning of Jim Crow was held by a popular vote.. Basic civil rights, and the Supreme Court defined marriage as a basic civil right should never be held up for a popular vote.
These Churches are no longer preaching the gospel, but instead have invaded the realm of Cesar. It is a sad day when so-called patriots wear the badge of bigotry with pride and Church sermons express hate towards fellow citizens. These preachers are no longer following the examples of Christ, but instead are looking to gain petty political power.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 12:45pm@Avengerk
“do you really believe the church won’t suffer if the federal government ever recognizes homosexual marriage? Again..your myopic views prevent you from seeing the bigger picture.”
Yes, I really believe that the church won’t suffer. How would it? The government can’t force churches to marry people or accept gays.
“Genuine rights will be eroded- not the homosexuals’ made up ones- if the federal government ever ratifies homosexual marriage.”
List those rights that will affect tax-exempt, federally recognized churches. What is your vision, what rights do you see stripped from churches? Churches: not “religious-affiliated businesses“ or ”Christian hospitals.” Actual churches.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 12:49pm@Encinom
” the People should have no political voice in this, no more so than the overturning of Jim Crow was held by a popular vote.”
But they do, and until the courts rule on it the people do have the right to decide.
“Basic civil rights, and the Supreme Court defined marriage as a basic civil right should never be held up for a popular vote.”
But the SCotUS has not ruled on gay marriage itself. You’re correct in saying that the SCotUS has ruled that marriage is a right, but you can also easily argue that the marriage they referred to was still one man, one woman. Again, unless it gets put to the Courts, the government of each state is who decides whether or not to allow gay marriage. The federal government is already clear in disavowing it; has been since Clinton.
Report Post »girlnurse
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 1:27pmENCINOM said: “Nothing like Churches and Christians being upfront and honest about their true bigotry and hatred. Each Churhc that fund raises for hate should lose their tax exempt status”.
Honestly, it would be TRUE bigotry and hatred NOT to stand our ground on how sodomy and filthy abominations will ruin a person– Mind, body, and soul! This is no more bigotry and hatred than telling a kid not to stick their hand in the red hot flame.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 1:39pmgirlnurse
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 1:27pm
ENCINOM said: “Nothing like Churches and Christians being upfront and honest about their true bigotry and hatred. Each Churhc that fund raises for hate should lose their tax exempt status”.
Honestly, it would be TRUE bigotry and hatred NOT to stand our ground on how sodomy and filthy abominations will ruin a person– Mind, body, and soul! This is no more bigotry and hatred than telling a kid not to stick their hand in the red hot flame.
Report Post »_________________________________
Your post only makes sense if you beleive that there is a Christian God, otherwise you are forcing your moral views based on a fairy tale on others. The right has not been able to provide a single argument against marriage equality that is not based on relgion. While religious justifications maybe be a legitimate basis for a law in theocracies like Iran, they have no place in a secular nation.
girlnurse
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 1:59pmENCINOM:
As much as I love the bible…I do not need it to make a case against homosexuality. Frank Turek does it beautifully in this series entitled “There’s Nothing Gay about it”. Watch the whole series about WHY same sex marriage should NOT be endorsed by the government…(without using bible)
#1:
Report Post »http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KcK539YHKds
Bro. Chuck
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 2:27pmGirlNurse….
good point
Its a shame they don’t see or understand that its because we love them that we care….
that we take the time to reach out to them to share a different perspective.
That we include them in our prayers to our Father….
If they saw and felt that love, as opposed to holding so tightly onto something they don’t even realize is causing their eternal death…
well,
as I said in the other post -
I believe our Father wants us to have that empathy…
just as He has for us, no?
I can point out the error in their path.
I can advise of the danger and precipitous nature of their journey.
I am not judging, if i say “Watch Out!”….
II then becomes their responsibility to heed or ignore, doesn’t it.
Where this will all get ugly is when they come to me and say I can’t tell my children or grandchildren what they see when two men hold hands or kiss in “public” is a Sin – That God is revolted by the brazen rebellious nature in those that pursue their own agenda.
That’s the point -
you can either obey God,
or follow your own path.
It is out of the Love Yeshua showed for us that we reach out to those we see in error…
or stumbling…
or in need of His Love themselves….
We do not judge – that is God’s domain.
and yes, man in his human imperfection has really made a mess of things at times…
But God knows our hearts….
blessing and correcting to perfect us according to His Will…
Be Bless’d in Yeshua!
Bro. Ch
Report Post »encinom
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 2:52pm@Nurse Girl
Frank Turek is a huckster and a liar. His points are not backed by facts or science, but are debunked theories and opinions that let Chrisitians falsely beleive they are not bigots nor sexists. Taking this fringe extremist “opinions” to logically conclusion, sterile or person unable to have children shouldn’t marry. He is wrong on the law and Constitution. He is looking to force his extremist religious views on others, twisted the facts, taken statements and comments out of contexts. He has learned how to make a quick buck off of Christian Bigots. He goes so far as to repeat the arguments of the racists in the past that sought to us the bible and psuedo-religious arguments. You have to try better.
At the end of the day if you don’t like gay marriage, don’t have one.
Report Post »girlnurse
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 3:18pmRight Bro Chuck!
You said….”Where this will all get ugly is when they come to me and say I can’t tell my children or grandchildren what they see when two men hold hands or kiss in “public” is a Sin – That God is revolted by the brazen rebellious nature in those that pursue their own agenda”
You are 100% right! Its already happening in Canada and other places. What they do in their own bedroom is between them and God. But would we not be “cowardly” IF we did not stand against evil when it has the potential to pervert a society and snatch untold thousands of souls and advance an agenda toward evil-debauchery??? It would be alot easier to shut up and be quiet and let it go….isn’t that the mistake the church has made for years now?, that got us into this mess in the first place?? God said the “cowardly” will not be accepted into the kingdom of heaven.
Report Post »But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars–their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8
encinom
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 4:20pm@girlnurse
The only evil I see is you and other Rightwing Religious Freaks attempting to dictate your view and opinions on others. There is little difference between the fasicist Christians and the taliban.
Report Post »girlnurse
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 4:44pmRosey??? Is that you??
Report Post »hatchetjob
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 5:39pmTo GIRLNURSE, Thank you for posting the link about gay marriage.
Report Post »RJJinGadsden
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 10:41amAlong with the current Governor Paul LePage, and now this. Maine has really begun to impress me. At least some of these people are trying to dig their way out of such a black hole of depravity, excessive taxing that is hand in hand with excessive spending.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 10:38am“Protect Marriage Maine has been in contact with about 800 churches across the state and expects 150 to 200 to participate in the Father’s Day collections, Conley said.”
… does that mean that the other 600-650 do not support their efforts?
Report Post »DissenterKnight
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 10:52amIt could mean that the other churches -the pastor and/or leadership- do not support secondary collections such as this. Many denominations collection special fund drives for only for ministry specific causes.
Report Post »Fubared
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 10:36amGood for them. Decent Yankee common sense on display. Tired of special special special treatment for deviants and the left redifining everything into the lefty mold. When we get to hear from the LGBLT faction of CAIR, maybe I will listen more.
Report Post »moussiagilda
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 10:36amI think I’ve intimidated you, you little schmuck.
Report Post »moussiagilda
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 10:35amHallowell? Does that mean “hallow hell”? Don’t.
To be excessively pro-family is to be anti-brotherhood.
Report Post »moussiagilda
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 10:33amLove matters more than family. What is a family but a gang. What is a gang but a family.
Report Post »Patriot of My America
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 8:27pmWhat an Idiot.. families are not gangs , how stupid can any one be. A gang is not related moron.
Report Post »moussiagilda
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 10:32amWell, that’s thoroughly moronic.
A little quip for y’all, that I just thought up:
Death is not the absence of life. It’s the absence of satisfaction.
Don’t believe the only happiness in life is in endurance and contemplation.
Report Post »Fubared
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 10:48amPoster hag for why we have to have prescriptions for barbituates? Some of those nuggets of yours would be better left unsaid; left rattling around in your noggin. Are you It’s Just Tim on a different med?
Report Post »Locked
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 10:51am“Death is not the absence of life. It’s the absence of satisfaction.”
I‘m pretty sure that the dead aren’t satisfied either. They’re dead.
The absence of satisfaction is dissatisfaction.
Report Post »PETTYDRAMA
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 10:58amLocked,
The absence of satisfaction is inhibition of the senses. And inhibition of the senses is large part of organized religions philosophy.
Report Post »Git-R-Done
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 11:30amPettydrama – Does that mean you’re just an uncivilized animal? You didn’t have to tell us that since we already know.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 11:47amwhat a laughable display you’re putting on PETTY. Your 2+2=13 formulations are hysterical. I suggest you take off your philosopher hat it’s making you look like an idiot.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 25, 2012 at 11:48am@PETTY…
Report Post »Nice word play… but not factual: People who attend Church tend to go home with a Sense of Satisfaction and Goals to become a Better Person. In fact, you seem to oppose Organized Religions, and you are DisSatisfied with existence of Religion.