Faith

Should Worshippers Be Able to Bring Guns to Church?

Editor’s Note: This is a crosspost from Beliefnet.com. It was composed by Rob Kerby, Senior Editor, Beliefnet.

Bring guns to church? Pastor Ken Pagano provoked a firestorm when he invited members of Louisville, Kentucky’s New Bethel Church to celebrate the 4th of July and their Second Amendment rights by bringing their firearms to church.

Should Churchgoers Be Able to Bring Guns to Houses of Worship?Pastor Ken Pagano (Photo Credit: Beliefnet)

The national news media opened fire at the very idea. After all, why should nice church folks need guns to defend themselves?

However, two years later as the nation recoiled from a series of shootings at the Family Research Council in Washington, D.C., a Colorado movie theater and a Wisconsin Sikh worship center, Black Christian News raised the question again: “Should Christians Be Allowed to Carry Guns to Church?” On the international news section of its website, BCN notes a number of overseas attacks on worshipers, including “Leaders in Nigeria Warn of Anarchy After Church/Mosque Shootings.”

Should Churchgoers Be Able to Bring Guns to Houses of Worship?Wisconsin Sikhs await word about their loved ones (Photo Credit: Beliefnet)
But are American places of worship under attack? The Family Research Council and the Liberty Institute think so. They recently released a study of more than 600 documented, recent incidents of hostility to religion in the United States.

“America today would be unrecognizable to our Founders,” said Liberty Institute President, Kelly Shackleford. “Our First Liberty is facing a relentless onslaught from well-funded and aggressive groups and individuals who are using the courts, Congress, and the vast federal bureaucracy to suppress and limit religious freedom. This radicalized minority is driven by an anti-religious ideology that is turning the First Amendment upside down.”

Should Churchgoers Be Able to Bring Guns to Houses of Worship?Kelly Shackleford (Photo Credit: Beliefnet)

 

“As dark as this survey is,” said FRC President Tony Perkins, “there is much light. The secularists’ agenda only advances when those who love liberty are apathetic. Let this be a call to stand for religious liberty in the United States.”

While they were unveiling their Survey of Religious Hostility in America, a group calling itself Military Atheists and Freethinkers, which has been pressuring the Pentagon to appoint atheist chaplains, was denouncing the American Legion for using religious language.

“It’s difficult to see military service co-opted to promote religious values above American values,” chastised the atheist group’s president, Jason Torpy, calling for the Legion to repudiate a recent statement by a Legion official. The atheists said they were offended by this declaration by Ken Governor, the American Legion’s Legislative Commission Chairman:

Should Churchgoers Be Able to Bring Guns to Houses of Worship?

Jason Torpy (Photo Credit: Beliefnet)

“Activists aim to distort and twist the core values of patriotism, morality and religion that gave birth to our nation, under God,” said Governor. ”They aim to kick God out of our public squares.

“The nation’s cultural, moral and patriotic values have been under attack for decades, a disheartening trend that continues today. Prayer has been removed from schools. The U.S. flag is no longer protected from desecration.

“References to God on U.S. currency, in the Pledge of Allegiance and on public monuments have been challenged by a minority of voices whose vision for America is far different than that of our founding fathers.”

So, asked Torpy, how dare the Legion commission chairman make such offensive and hateful statements? Torpy advised that such talk about God drives away new American Legion members.

Such hostility to faith is growing, said the Family Research Council and Liberty Institute on the website presenting their report: “The Survey of Religious Hostility in America is a collection of more than 600 cases, detailing religious bigotry throughout America – most of which have occurred within the past 10 years. We invite you to view this powerful document that offers stunning insight into the attacks against people of faith across our nation, and we ask you to stand with us as we continue the important work of defending our most precious liberty – our freedom of religion.

“Hostility against religious liberty has reached an all-time high, and the attacks are increasing at an unprecedented rate. America’s First Liberty – the freedom of religion –  is being pushed out of public life, our schools, and even our churches.”

Should Churchgoers Be Able to Bring Guns to Houses of Worship?

Angela Hildenbrand (Photo Credit: Beliefnet)

For example, notes the website: “Angela Hildenbrand, valedictorian of her class at Medina Valley High, wanted to say a prayer during her graduation ceremony. A fellow student from an agnostic family filed a suit to prevent Hildenbrand from praying. The federal district court judge issued an order prohibiting Hildenbrand from using words like “Lord,” “in Jesus’ name,” and “amen.” The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit reversed the ruling and allowed the prayer. On June 6, 2011, Hildenbrand gave her speech, which included a prayer.

The study was released as the Family Research Council’s security guard, Leonardo R. Johnson, continued to recover in the hospital after an armed man entered the group’s Washington, D.C., office last Wednesday, took a gun out of his backpack, told Johnson “I don’t like your politics,” and opened fire, shooting Johnson.

The wounded FRC guard wrestled the gunman to the ground, held him until help arrived and was later praised as a “hero” by District of Columbia Police Chief Cathy Lanier for preventing the shooter from entering the FRC offices and wounding or killing anyone else.

So, is it time to start taking firearms to church? In April 2011, Virginia’s Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli ruled that carrying a firearm for self-protection in a church or place of worship is permissible under Virginia law. He was responding to a state legislator’s request to explain a state law which bars firearms in places of worship “without good and sufficient reason” Cuccinelli ruled that “carrying a weapon for personal protection constitutes a good and sufficient reason.”

“Guns are allowed in churches in twenty states as part of their ‘Right to Carry’ laws,” writes Susannah Griffee for the New Yorker magazine. “Versions of them have been enacted in more than forty states.

“In the 1920s and 1930s, many states adopted laws that prohibited the unlicensed concealed carrying of a gun. Vermont is the only state that did not adopt any statutes prohibiting or regulating the concealed carry of guns, and has no specific prohibition against carrying guns in churches.”

In Thomaston, Georgia, the Rev. Jonathan Wilkins told Adelle M. Banks, reporting in USA Today, that his congregation should have the right to carry guns into worship services to protect the congregation.

“Wilkins’ Baptist Tabernacle and a Georgia gun-rights association are challenging a new state law that prohibits weapons in houses of worship,” she noted. “Recently, state legislatures in Georgia, Michigan and Louisiana have been caught in the crossfire of the debate between gun rights and gun control as they consider allowing weapons in houses of worship.

“Though gun-rights proponents think they have both the First and Second Amendments on their side, they also cite the rights of religious organizations as property owners. Opponents, meanwhile, worry that having weapons in worship is part of a slippery slope to permitting them everywhere.

Shortly after Georgia specifically banned guns in church, Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal signed a law permitting them in churches, mosques and synagogues.

Should Churchgoers Be Able to Bring Guns to Houses of Worship?
Jindal (Photo Credit: Beliefnet)

“Meanwhile, other states are mulling whether to scale back restrictions on weapons,” noted Banks. “In Michigan, gun rights activists are pushing for a change in the law that would make it possible to carry guns in worship without prior permission from a presiding official.”

Why?  “Mike Thiede, spokesman for Michigan Gun Owners and a member of a Baptist church,” reported Banks, “said he spoke to legislators in favor of changing the law after a church secretary was assaulted and a pastor was tied up during a robbery.”

During 2009, Dr. George Tiller was shot in the foyer of a Kansas Lutheran church, the Rev. Fred Winters was killed in his Illinois pulpit and the Rev. Carol Daniels was found dead in her Oklahoma church building.

“When you see things like that happening over and over again, churches are saying, ‘What are we supposed to do?’” Jeffrey Hawkins, executive director of the Virginia-based Christian Security Network told Banks.

Laura Cutilletta, senior staff attorney of the San Francisco-based Legal Community Against Violence, told Banks that many states remain silent on weapons and worship – but guns don’t “have a place in public, especially places like churches and bars and places where a lot of people are congregating. An unintentional shooting could end up injuring many people.”

“Laws about weapons in houses of worship vary widely,” wrote Banks. “Some states forbid firearms in religious buildings but others permit them unless a congregation has posted a sign disallowing them. Still others say they’re permitted if the pastor, priest or rabbi gives the OK.”

But, why would anyone feel the need to be armed at church?

Because American politics have become so polarized, says the FRC’s Perkins. He said that “reckless rhetoric” aimed at groups like his had motivated the gunman’s attack at his group’s headquarters. “He singled out the Southern Poverty Law Center,” reported Theo Emery and Michael S. Schmidt for the New York Times, “which characterizes the Family Research Council as a hate group for its political positions on homosexuality.

No longer do Americans agree to disagree, it seems. Instead, some attempt to brand those who debate with them as “haters” – and attempt to ban them from further public discussion.

The gunman “was responsible for firing the shot yesterday that wounded one of our colleagues and our friend Leo Johnson,” Perkins said, but he “was given a license to shoot an unarmed man by organizations like the Southern Poverty Law Center.”

Should Churchgoers Be Able to Bring Guns to Houses of Worship?FRC shooting scene (Photo Credit: Beliefnet)

In a statement on the SPLC’s website, spokesman Mark Potok called Perkins’s accusation “outrageous.” His group recently branded a number of Christian groups which oppose same-sex marriage on moral grounds as “hate groups,” a label they say is a smear – and which they have indignantly demanded the group recant.

The FRC says the American family as an institution is under attack – and that same-gender matrimony weakens not only American families, but U.S. society as a whole.

So, how should people of faith respond? By arming themselves? By being prepared to shoot back – to defend their churches, synagogues and other places of worship with firearms?

The rash of U.S. shootings have “reignited a dialogue on gun rights,” reports Black Christian News – noting that “a new national survey finds that Americans overwhelmingly believe that the constitutional right to own and carry a gun is as important as their constitutional right to free speech.”

That Public Religion Research Institute survey finds 68 percent of U.S. residents rank the right to own guns right up there with “freedom of speech and freedom of the press.”

But there’s a dramatic divide between Democrats and Republicans – with only 28 percent of Democrats supporting gun rights compared to 65 percent of Republicans and 78 percent of Tea Party supporters.

The survey also found that most Americans oppose guns in church – with another sharp divide: 55 percent of Tea Partiers support the right to carry concealed weapons to sites of worship, compared to 9 percent of Democrats.

Two years ago in Louisville when Pastor Pagano offered his congregation the opportunity to bring their guns to a Saturday evening service, “about 200 people took him up on the invitation,” reported the Christian Science Monitor in one of the more restrained news accounts.

The little church is still recoiling from all the national attention. ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox and CNN news reporters as well as journalists from the New York Times, BBC, MSNBC, Time, the New York Daily NewsUSA Today and London’s Daily Telegraph targeted the quiet congregation and its local pastor, none of which expected the mob of reporters brandishing microphones and cameras.

From the pulpit, “We are wanting to send a message that there are legal, civil, intelligent and law-abiding citizens who also own guns,” the Rev. Pagano told the folks in the pews. “If it were not for a deep-seated belief in the right to bear arms, this country would not be here today.”

The press leveled both barrels at the earnest young clergyman. The New York Times went for the racial angle: “The bring-your-gun-to-church day, which will include a $1 raffle of a handgun, firearms safety lessons and a picnic, is another sign that the gun culture in the United States is thriving despite, or perhaps because of, President Obama’s election.”

“A pastor in Kentucky is redefining the tradition of wearing your Sunday best to services by encouraging his congregation to strap on holsters and bring their weapons to church,” fired ABC’s Emily Friedman.

“The guns must be unloaded and private security will check visitors at the door,” reported the Associated Press.

“Pastor,” fired CNN’s John Roberts, “I was doing a lot of looking around this morning at the reaction to the event you had on Saturday night and some of the critics were asking things like ‘Would Jesus carry a weapon?’ And ‘What would Jesus think of a pastor who beat plow shares into swords?’”

“Marian McClure Taylor, executive director of the Kentucky Council of Churches, an umbrella organization for 11 Christian denominations in Kentucky, said Christian churches are promoters of peace, but ‘most allow for arms to be taken up under certain conditions,’” reported MSNBC as if the council of churches was relevant, never mind that it only represents America’s smallest and most liberal denominations while the largest – such as the Roman Catholic Church, the Southern Baptist Convention and the Assemblies of God, with which New Bethel Church is affiliated –  shun the organization at the state, national and international levels.

So, is it a good idea to bring guns to church?

In Aurora, Colorado, a mass shooting occurred at a Century movie theater during a midnight screening of the film “The Dark Knight Rises.” There was no armed security guard on duty, according to officials. The gunman, dressed in tactical clothing with multiple firearms, killed 12 people and injured 58 others.

At the Family Research Council office in Washington, D.C., a similarly armed gunman was halted at the front door by the security guard – who was shot as he subdued the attacker, but prevented anybody else from being killed or wounded.

A few years ago, a grim-faced Martin Sheen, with an American flag behind him, appeared in a commercial attacking the idea of legislation that would allow individuals to carry “hidden handguns” in, among other places, churches.

“But, the truth is,”  observes the American Way website, “that making it legal to carry concealed weapons in churches is not as crazy as Sheen and his anti-Second Amendment, anti-self-defense friends at Handgun Control, Inc. would like us to believe.

“In September 1999, Larry Gene Ashbrook walked into the Wedgewood Baptist Church in Ft. Worth, Texas, with two guns. He murdered seven people, injured seven others and then killed himself. Two video tapes showed Ashbrook calmly firing his guns. The Acting Police Chief of Ft. Worth, Ralph Mendoza, says these tapes show this cold-blooded murderer committing his massacre in a ‘methodical manner,’ standing there where he ‘fired shot after shot after shot,’ pacing back and forth.

“Ashbrook was able to carry out his slaughter at a leisurely pace. Why? Because none of his victims, or anybody else in the church at that time, were armed. Thus, they were sitting ducks and never had a chance.

“In 1993 the Rev. Michael R. Duesterhaus, a Roman Catholic priest at Holy Spirit Catholic Church in Annandale, Virginia, woke up at 3 a.m. to the sound of someone breaking into his study. The priest took out a 9mm pistol, flipped on a light and ordered the intruder to freeze and lie on the floor. The intruder stopped and then reached for his belt. Deusterhaus fired. The man paused, apparently wounded, then ran into the hall. The priest pursued him and fired again, at his feet. The priest then fired a third time, deliberately wide of his target. The man ran out the side door escaping with a small amount of cash.”

“The Washington Post noted that this incident “contrasts sharply” with the June, 2000, “brutal slaying” of Monsignor Thomas Wells at the Mother Seaton Catholic Church in Germantown, Maryland, who died after being repeatedly stabbed.”

The difference?

One priest was armed. The other was not.

“The idea of a priest or bishop owning a handgun shocks many Catholics,” observed Washington Post staff writer Bill Broadway. “But some do, whether for hunting, target practice or self-defense, and church law allows it. But theologians and ethicists differ on whether priests should ever point a weapon at another person — and fire.

“Duesterhaus, then 28, shot at the intruder, and he and three other priests living in the Holy Spirit rectory were unharmed. Wells, 56, who stayed alone in the rectory at Mother Seton Catholic Church, died after being stabbed repeatedly in a violent struggle.

“Would the outcome have been different if Wells had owned a handgun? John M. Snyder, 60, a Catholic layman and chief lobbyist for the Washington-based Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, believes so,” wrote Broadway

“On June 9, the day after Wells’s body was found, Snyder released a statement saying Wells ‘most likely would be alive today if he’d had a loaded handgun and knew how to use it.’

“Washington Auxiliary Bishop William E. Lori objected strongly,” reported Broadway. “He called the suggestion that priests be encouraged to own handguns for self-defense ‘unworthy of Monsignor Wells’s memory.’ The Rev. Aaron Joseph Coty, administrator of Mother Seton parish, finds abhorrent the idea that priests — or anyone, for that matter — own handguns. ‘You don’t need weapons to defend yourself,’ he said. ‘There are other ways. You can talk with the person, reason with the person, get into a fistfight.’

But the Rev. Robert J. Rippy, chancellor of the Diocese of Arlington, has a different view. “A priest, like any other citizen, has a right to self-preservation,” he told the Arlington Catholic Herald after the Duesterhaus incident. “A person has a right to preserve their life from an unjust aggressor.”

What do you think? Should worshippers be able to bring guns to church? Take the poll:

Article courtesy of Beliefnet.com, the distinct online resource for inspiration and spirituality where you’ll find thousands of inspiring features, uplifting stories and access to other great resources.

RELATED: 

In CONTROL, Glenn Beck presents a passionate, fact-based case for guns that reveals why gun control isn’t really about controlling guns at all; it’s about controlling us. Find out more HERE.

Comments (254)

  • Eastinfection
    Posted on August 27, 2012 at 1:15pm

    Also: i would love it if a rabbi could clear up this notion of the diciples carrying swords.. They were Jewish. Were they allowed to “carry” into Temple? I thought this wasn’t allowed…?

    Report this comment

    Eastinfection  
  • Fla Del
    Posted on August 27, 2012 at 1:13pm

    In Florida it is legal to carry in church. You don’t need the pastor’s permission.
    Just keep it out of sight and do not talk about it. No one will know until that bad day when
    you are called upon to save lives.
    I wonder how many lives could have been saved if people were carrying at the Batman movie.
    Be aware, be trained.

    Report this comment

    Fla Del  
    • Eastinfection
      Posted on August 27, 2012 at 1:18pm

      It was pitch black in the Batman movie. “Trained” carriers are educated to not fire without a clear line of sight. Ask any cop / military. Should we all bring guns and night vision goggles to the movies?

      Report this comment

      Eastinfection  
  • Eastinfection
    Posted on August 27, 2012 at 1:03pm

    OK, … I have the solution. Let’s just hire the TSA to virtually strip- search everyone on their way into church. Because, much like guns, that would surely prevent someone from setting the building on fire, poisoning communion, quietly distributing anthrax, and wiring the organ to explode like a car bomb…. if arming yourself makes you FEEL more secure in church, by all means indulge in that right. If you actually think it MAKES you more secure when God is looking over you, then i pray for you.

    Report this comment

    Eastinfection  
  • DADDYOF4PLUS1
    Posted on August 27, 2012 at 12:54pm

    There are approx 1500 families attending five services throughout the week. I’d guess one in three are packing. Everyone i know at church is and i’ve been a member eleven years. I feel sorry for any idiot that tries something at our church.

    Report this comment

    DADDYOF4PLUS1  
  • jkwinters64
    Posted on August 27, 2012 at 12:51pm

    I have been attending the same church for 2 years. About a year ago I got my CPL. I have been leaving the gun locked in the car when I go in. Makes me uncomfortable that it’s out there and I’m unarmed inside. I am applying for church membership and one of the things I will be asking is for permission to bring my gun in with me. I’m not looking to flash it around and say “Look at me, I’ve got a gun.” It will be in a Crossbreed holster (the one with the cross on the belt clip) and covered by a shirt. I can only attend church every other week because of work. When I do attend I am in the A/V booth near the entrance to the sanctuary. I pray that inside or outside of church that I am never forced to draw my weapon. But I do not want to be a victim or witness others become victims while I have the means to stop it.

    Report this comment

    jkwinters64  
  • commoncents5
    Posted on August 27, 2012 at 12:46pm

    Before the mob took Jesus in the Garden, Peter took out his sword and cut off an ear. You have to have excellent abilities to be that precise. Then Jesus put the ear back on. But Jesus was certainly not in least against having the power to protect yourself and your family against the enemies of the world. He gives us the knowledge of common sense to make those decisions. Who ever taught Christians that they needed to be door mats to their enemies was obviously a false teacher that came in the name of Jesus!

    Report this comment

    commoncents5  
  • Joker50
    Posted on August 27, 2012 at 12:46pm

    We won independence for this country with two things…The strength of God and the Power of Guns.

    Enough said.

    Report this comment

    Joker50  
    • Eastinfection
      Posted on August 27, 2012 at 12:51pm

      Not nearly enough said. Other factors include the fact that Britain was fighting on two fronts and sent their “B-Team” here, We commisioned countless pirates to intercept British supplies by any means they deemed appropriate, and we implored fighting tactics that were considered “terroristic” at the time.

      Report this comment

      Eastinfection  
  • BACKUPOFFMYLIBERTY
    Posted on August 27, 2012 at 12:41pm

    Here in VA, the law prohibits carrying a gun into religious services without “good and sufficient reason”. Everyone has their own opinion about what that vague, bureaucratic statement means. Violation of the law is a misdemeanor… My personal opinion is that carrying a weapon for personal protection does constitute good and sufficient reason. I should be able to worship and protect my family at the same time.

    Report this comment

    BACKUPOFFMYLIBERTY  
    • Eastinfection
      Posted on August 27, 2012 at 12:45pm

      Actually i think “good and sufficient reason” was an expression intended to defeat the beaurocratic insistence of this very restriction being enacted, but i get your point.

      Report this comment

      Eastinfection  
  • Eastinfection
    Posted on August 27, 2012 at 12:36pm

    Does everyone think the only threats are going to be frontal firearm assaults? How bout this:… terrorists replace the Holy Water in a Catholic church with liquid LSD… everyone dips their hand in it and crosses themselves upon entry.. then all the armed parishoners start hallucinating and shooting each other! THATS just as likely as you saving your friends and family from bad guys in a shootout…

    Report this comment

    Eastinfection  
    • tolerence
      Posted on August 27, 2012 at 2:08pm

      so how much LSD have you done because your logic is twisted? I mean I could always one up you if you want to journey into bizzaro world, but the fact you say something like that,requires a visit from legal authorities.

      Report this comment

      tolerence  
    • tolerence
      Posted on August 27, 2012 at 2:10pm

      maybe we should have tougher laws on the conceal and carry of LSD.

      Report this comment

      tolerence  
  • HYPNOTOAD
    Posted on August 27, 2012 at 12:34pm

    Peter carried and used a weapon when around our Lord and used it. He carried a sword…the gun of the day.

    Report this comment

    HYPNOTOAD  
  • OldGeek72
    Posted on August 27, 2012 at 12:29pm

    Would Jesus carry a weapon? Jesus IS the creator of the Universe, he is beyond weapons having just spoken the Universe into being. Satan tried to tempt Jesus already and failed so you don’t need to try again. In the meantime I’m not God or a god so I do need physical protection sometimes and given the hate-filled world, a weapon may be required at times as well.

    Report this comment

    OldGeek72  
  • efialtis
    Posted on August 27, 2012 at 12:29pm

    This is just another one of those instances, like Marriage, where the Government has gotten involved in Religion, in violation of the 1st Amendment.
    Each Church should be able to set their own restrictions. Then the Church-Goers can decide if that Church meets their requirements and respects their freedoms.

    Report this comment

    efialtis  
  • tom56
    Posted on August 27, 2012 at 12:20pm

    Luk_22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    Report this comment

    tom56  
  • vaughan
    Posted on August 27, 2012 at 12:15pm

    If this was 50 years ago I would say no but this is the terrorists game today and sadly I would now say yes.

    Report this comment

    vaughan  
  • tom56
    Posted on August 27, 2012 at 12:14pm

    I remember attending a Billy Graham pre-crusade meeting at 1st Presbyterian Church in Tacoma WA. In 1984 there were some picture of all the Pastors. Some of the early ones had their guns strapped to their waist as they preached the Gospel. They way things are going now it may come to that again. Yes, we are given that right in the Constitution.

    Report this comment

    tom56  
    • Eastinfection
      Posted on August 27, 2012 at 12:25pm

      The 2nd amendment says the government may not restrict your right to be armed. Private organizations(churches) can make their own restrictions!

      Report this comment

      Eastinfection  
  • TarheelFlyer
    Posted on August 27, 2012 at 12:11pm

    From a rights standpoint, this is simple. There is no reason to stop a law abiding citizen from carrying at church. There just isn’t. I don’t think the person should flaunt it or make others uncomfortable that they have it as it is a place of worship, but if they want to carry, so be it.

    From the WWJD angle, it is much more difficult to answer. In Christ’s day, the weapon of choice would be sword or spear…maybe bow and arrow. If you think back to the story of Christ getting arrested at his betrayal by Judas…Peter pulls a sword and cuts the man’s ear off. That leads to a couple of questions. Did the Lord know he had it? What was it used for? Self defense or to kill their food? Why did Christ allow him to have it that night? Had this not been the night of his arrest, would things have gone differently? Would he have had allowed Peter to use the sword had it been a criminal trying to do the men harm?

    Report this comment

    TarheelFlyer  
    • Eastinfection
      Posted on August 27, 2012 at 12:20pm

      Owners of private property dont need a reason to restrict your rights… Kinda the point of Liberty… The property owner’s rights ALWAYS trumps the visitor’s.

      Report this comment

      Eastinfection  
  • Eastinfection
    Posted on August 27, 2012 at 12:06pm

    BTW folks, Churches are technically “private clubs” and may reserve the right to make they’re own descisions regarding which “rights” you may exercise on THEIR property.

    Report this comment

    Eastinfection  
  • Henry22
    Posted on August 27, 2012 at 12:05pm

    I’ve been packing mine for 25 years…………..and never hurt a thang……………..

    Report this comment

    Henry22  
  • Twinspeedr
    Posted on August 27, 2012 at 12:02pm

    Luke 22:

    He (Jesus) said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”

    The completion of scriptural prophesy seems to be imminent by my reckoning, and it seems like Jesus is telling his disciples to be prepared to defend themselves as they go out in the world.

    Report this comment

    Twinspeedr  
    • KENTUCKIANAPATRIOT
      Posted on August 27, 2012 at 12:11pm

      THANK GOODNESS!!! I have found evidence of COMMON SENSE!! “Be thou a doormat and a willing victim of crime. Defend not thine own life, or the lives of others.” That’s NOT in your Bible either! Amazing–what’s NOT in the Bible!

      Report this comment

      KENTUCKIANAPATRIOT  
  • Eastinfection
    Posted on August 27, 2012 at 11:58am

    If all you guys are going to start packing during Sunday mass, i’m going to consider bringing straws and blowdarts. The only armed parishoners should be the alter boys when thyre alone with the priests.

    Report this comment

    Eastinfection  
    • Twinspeedr
      Posted on August 27, 2012 at 12:04pm

      If you want to declare yourself a “criminal-safe zone” you are welcome to do so. Just don’t get all uppity when someone disagrees with that kind of thinking.

      Report this comment

      Twinspeedr  
    • KENTUCKIANAPATRIOT
      Posted on August 27, 2012 at 12:05pm

      Well…..good luck saving lives with your choice of “weapons”. Too bad–you are not aware of the reality of the world you live in. Being prepared is a good idea–you are exactly the type of person I mentioned before–it’s all a joke…….UNTIL, God forbid, the unthinkable happens to you.

      Report this comment

      KENTUCKIANAPATRIOT  
    • Eastinfection
      Posted on August 27, 2012 at 12:14pm

      Look, guys… you can make your own choices. By my calculations i’ve attended Sunday mass around 2,000 times in my life and have never, for one second, felt i was threatened by anything more than catching the flu from a sick worshipper. If you perceive a greater threat, by all means do what makes you comfortable. I’ll put my fate in God’s hands while in church… If you don’t trust HIM….

      Report this comment

      Eastinfection  
  • KENTUCKIANAPATRIOT
    Posted on August 27, 2012 at 11:57am

    What is this should be “allowed” business?! How many issues rolled into this one? 2nd Amendment has no “church prohibitive” attached. The particular church would have the right to yes/no the matter–giving people the choice to change churches if they held a different opinion than their church leadership….but in this day & age the old “Take guns from the law abiding people–and only outlaws will have guns.”….God forbid, anyone find themselves in these ever-increasing onslaughts of crazed “gunmen”–had better hope that a good decent person is there as well & is willing to take the killer(s) on and more than likely take them OUT. Guns SAVE lives as well.

    Report this comment

    KENTUCKIANAPATRIOT  
  • COFemale
    Posted on August 27, 2012 at 11:56am

    As someone who lives in a city where a shooting occurred in a church, I am thankful they had security armed. The shooter unfortunately started out in the parking lot as church was letting and killed two sisters and injured the father. He proceed into the church where a former police woman who served as church security pulled her gun and returned fire. The shooter, the coward he was, shot himself. All this was prompted from a shooting that occurred at a mission house in the Denver area earlier in the morning.

    I would rather have guns in church than no one able to protect from something like this. It is really a sad state of affairs when even criminals do not respect the sanctity of a church. Most times in the past churches were off limits. Now with all the crazies in the world, one must be prepared even when it is God’s house.

    Whether Jesus would approve or disapprove is not relevant. Protecting innocent people is the issue.

    Report this comment

    COFemale  
  • Libertyluvnmomma
    Posted on August 27, 2012 at 11:55am

    I would be ashamed being in Church and supporting Romney the known baby killer.
    Guess who loses in the case of rape produced life under Romney
    yep, innocent pre born life.

    The Bible is very specific on the blood of the innocent. Why aren’t we so called Bible believers?
    guns won’t protect willing goats

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    Libertyluvnmomma  
    • Eastinfection
      Posted on August 27, 2012 at 12:03pm

      Huh? Who are you going to vote for then?… “Obama the champion of unborn life”? PS: Santorum dropped out months ago.

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      Eastinfection  
  • Depat
    Posted on August 27, 2012 at 11:54am

    I spoke with one of the Pastors of our church and he said he was not against it, being a former Marine himself. I was up to the individual. Our state is an open carry state, but I also have a Concealed Carry Permit. Have not brought my 9mm to church, but in lieu of the recent attacks in churches, I may start.

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    Depat  
  • EPHESIANS1_7
    Posted on August 27, 2012 at 11:54am

    Like most I’ve read, I too carry everywhere I go, church included. My father in-law is our senior pastor, and I can tell you he feels very comfortable knowing I’m carrying (as well as about 10 of my other buddies). I can also say that I have a good friend who pastor’s at an inner city church who constantly deals with drug addicts and drunks. In all his years pastoring there, he has had to pull his gun once when a drugged out man approached him in a threatening manor. The druggie quickly realized the situation he was in, got down on the ground, and was then arrested a few minutes later. Had he not had a legally concealed gun on him, the outcome would have been very different.

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    EPHESIANS1_7  

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