Yet another public school has halted prayers before football games after receiving a threatening letter from the Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF), an atheist activist non-profit. Earlier this week, TheBlaze told you about the University of Tennessee at Chattanooga and its decision to ban prayers. Now, Haralson County High School in Tallapoosa, Georgia, is also ceasing its broadcast of prayers before football games.
After 50 years of traditional invocations being uttered before Rebels games, the loudspeaker has now been silenced. The situation commenced when the school, back in September 2011, received a letter from FFRF staff council Stephanie A. Schmitt. In it, she told Haralson County Schools Superintendent Brett Stanton that the district was in violation of the U.S. Constitution.
“First and foremost, it is illegal for a public school to organize, sponsor and lead prayers at public high school athletic events,” Schmitt’s letter charged.
As was the case with the University of Tennessee at Chattanooga, the district will replace the prayer with a moment of silence, something that Stanton agrees is constitutionally prudent.
“We are going to follow the guidelines of the Constitution,” the superintendent said. “I think it is a huge adjustment for this community, something they are having to adapt to. And something that has really brought them together.”
Interestingly, the case isn’t necessarily closed. While the district won’t allow prayers to be uttered from the loudspeaker, community members have taken matters into their own hands. Rather than being silent, game attendees and players decided to vocally pray during the designated moment of silence. According to CBS News, they wanted to show that, while they can’t have a loudspeaker broadcast their prayers, they don’t plan to stop publicly connecting with their Lord.
“I am upset because I think our God-given rights are being taken away as well,” said Melinda Holden, a local. “We are a God-believing community and we have our rights too. This is needed in our community. If you don’t want to support the prayer then allow us to have our say.”
Typically, when it comes to those issuing church-state complaints with the FFRF, they tend to hide their identities to avoid scrutiny and anger. In this case, the parents, Frank and Sarak Mcintire, whose son plays on the football team, have spoken out. While they never intended the situation “to get this far,” they have expressed their discontent and uncomfortableness with the prayers being uttered.
Interestingly, the family claims that they are not atheists, but that they simply want the school to stop violating the constitution.
“We care about the community, we care about this team and one of the things I am glad to see a lot of people here tonight,” Frank explained. “Where have they been the past six years? They come out here for this one issue, they are not out here supporting the football team, they are supporting the prayer, that’s a big difference, we are out here every Friday night supporting this team.”
For now, the community, though, seems adamant about continuing its public prayer during the moment of silence. In fact, the game had a sell-out crowd comprised of 3,000 community members.
(H/T: WTSP)
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Comments (298)
The Third Archon
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:17pm“Rather than being silent, game attendees and players decided to vocally pray during the designated moment of silence.”
Well yeah–that’s the point. The issue isn’t the prayer per se, the issue is whether or not it can be sponsored, and tacitly endorsed, by a public organization (i.e. the school) by broadcasting it over the school’s sound speaker system as an officially sanctioned event before school events (such as sports games).
DarkJello
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:29pmAnother rip in the constitution. Freedom OF religion.
The dems/libs dominate the “education” of our youth, and use this institution to push their agenda. Big government is failing yet again. We are fading behind other industrialized nations for many reasons, and yet teachers want more and more and more. America is off the rails.
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Bob
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:34pmEndorsement by any person or group does not constitute a law established by Congress. The Constitution was pretty specific for a reason. The problem is that some folks want to interpret government sanction as endorsement, that’s just plain WRONG. Various organizations, states and local goverments sanction a lot of things they don’t endorse. It’s called TOLERANCE.
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NHwinter
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:37pmHow about flooding the school with letters protesting the absence of prayer. Atheist are a tiny minority. Its time we stop this foolishness. The Constitution say you cannot prohit the free exercise of religion. Sue them if the option to pray is eliminated.
U.N.hater
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:39pmPlaying it over a loud speaker is not passing a law that endorses a faith or religion. Read the constitution A$$ WIPE! I don’t believe in god or a devil. But i can read!
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The Third Archon
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:56pm@JELLO
Read the whole text of the 1st amendment. It protects against both government favoritism towards particular religious persuasions, and government interference with the exercise of religion that can be reasonably accommodated (i.e. you can’t get away with murder just by claiming “oh it’s my religion”). Therefore, the government or any of its agents (such as people whose salaries are PAID by the government) or resources paid for by the same (i.e. speaker systems at public school football fields) cannot be used to support a particular religious persuasion. On the other hand, by the Free Exercise clause, the government cannot, and should not, prohibit private individuals lawfully praying on their own initiative before said games.
@BOB
It does constitute an endorsement if they do are paid by the government and act under color of public authority, or if anyone, themselves paid by the government or not, uses public resources in support of their religious persuasion. Also, you apparently don’t understand the word “sanction” so I’ll define it here:
From Dictionary.com
(verb)–authoritative permission or approval, as for an action. 2. something that serves to support an action, condition, etc. 3. something that gives binding force,..
Would have reproduced more, but you get the idea. If you don’t think that’s the DEFINITION of endorsement, then I’d like to hear what you DO think constitutes an endorsement.
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The Third Archon
Sep. 14, 2012 at 6:06pm@HATER
Any action authorized by a law is pursuant to that law and derives authority therefrom. Your opinion of what the U.S. Constitution says doesn’t–it’s what the Supreme Court says the Constitution means that matters. And the Supreme Court’s opinion on the matter HAS consistently found that what the government DOES pursuant to its authority under LAWS is bound by the 1st Amendment protections against its support or prejudice for or against any particular religious persuasion. If you don’t like it, become a Supreme Court justice. Or theists could just be content to have their moronic views reflected in almost every private school in the U.S. and if THAT isn’t good enough, they can always home school their children, something they’re so fond of lauding. They have no right to have their idiotic beliefs touted as fact in school (where people should be taught claims that can be SUBSTANTIATED) to the children of EVERY person in the country, whether their parents believe the same nonsense or not. Public authorities and resources have no place entering the controversial fray of religious debate–period. If private individuals want to do so, fine, good in fact–we should have a debate on the merits (or lack thereof as it were) on religion, and your right to do so as a PRIVATE actor is protected by the same amendment. But you cannot do so under the color of public authority, speaking for the state, the ostensible representative of the WHOLE people.
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bmc6053
Sep. 14, 2012 at 6:10pmThe Constitution doesn’t forbid a government organization on the State or local level from public prayer or even from establishing a state religion. The state may or may not have a constitutional equivalent, but the original intention of our constitution is the law. Personally, I could care less who got annoyed or felt uncomfortable with prayer over a loud speaker. There is no cause to cave in because of the mere threat of a lawsuit. This country has lost its collective spine.
If everyone wants to forbid government from participating in religious ceremony, an amendment would be required. Judicial bull crap doesn’t cut it.
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Chuck7884
Sep. 14, 2012 at 6:14pmWell as long as the churches remain silent.This will be the standard of the day. all the churches have to do is use the 1st amendment. there is a clause against Religious prosecution Against Freedom From Religion Foundation.Now That is a thought why have they not pursued it?Christ said turn the other cheek he did not say do it for ever.The Church has more money than this foundation and can tort them out of existence easy. Why not?.
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The Third Archon
Sep. 14, 2012 at 6:29pm@BMC6053
Actually you are dead wrong. You WERE correct at the time of the Constitution’s writing, but SUBSEQUENTLY a little thing got passed called THE FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT, and now that binds STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT to follow many of the same constitutional obligations as the federal government, perhaps MOST importantly, the first amendment.
@CHUCK
Good luck with that–you don’t think, given (as you yourself recognize) the massive disparity in resources and numbers of theistic organizations, if that were possible under 1st amendment jurisprudence it wouldn’t ALREADY HAVE BEEN DONE?!
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encinom
Sep. 14, 2012 at 6:36pmbmc6053
Posted on September 14, 2012 at 6:10pm
The Constitution doesn’t forbid a government organization on the State or local level from public prayer or even from establishing a state religion. The state may or may not have a constitutional equivalent, but the original intention of our constitution is the law.
____________________________
14 Amendment incorporates the First Amendment to the States and Agents of the State. The Original Intent of the Founders is not the Law. The Constitution and ALL OF THE AMENDMENTS together with the Supreme Court’s interpretation of the such is the law. Original Intent is just one legal theory on how the Constitution should be read. Under pure original intent, the Air Force is unconstitutional and speech over broadcast signals and on the web is not protected.
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Gregb
Sep. 14, 2012 at 6:43pm@ third archon
freedom OF speech, not freedom from speech. If you don’t like it, turn away… or give a rebuttal….but, don’t stifle free speech. I have feelings and can speak those feelings in a crowd as long as the crowd is not on my side?
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The Third Archon
Sep. 14, 2012 at 7:03pm@GREGB
You are still missing the point. No one is arguing you can’t speak your mind or pray. What they ARE saying is that you can’t do so over a PUBLIC SCHOOL SOUND SYSTEM. What they ARE saying is that PUBLIC AUTHORITIES can’t ENDORSE or APPROVE or DISAPPROVE of what your as a PRIVATE individual express on the subject of religion.
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seanscythe
Sep. 14, 2012 at 7:07pmI’d like to tell the Atheist how about you round up all of your anti-religion buddies and me and my religious buddies meet you in the back ally. Sure this won’t take long seeing as how we out number them and they would run scared.
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The Third Archon
Sep. 14, 2012 at 7:12pm@SEAN
No matter how many people choose to believe something, that doesn’t MAKE it any more true. And theists won’t be the majority forever–you’d do well to remember that.
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American Soldier (Separated)
Sep. 14, 2012 at 7:26pmThe freedom of religion means you have the freedom to choose a religion, does it not?
Freedom of religion doesn’t mean you have the freedom to be a Christian. A moment of silence is fine, pray quietly or loudly, that’s fine too. It’s a matter of public, tax payer funded organizations such as schools and other government positions cannot sponsor or promote a religion because I have the freedom to choose. You can choose to pray, I can choose to reflect on my life. But you have that choice! If the school or government is broadcasting a specific religious prayer, where’s the choice? Those that do not partake are being forced to participate in this prayer.
You are dominate now, but will you be dominate in 10 years? 20 years? 50 years? Will our children be ruled by Islamist when we pass on and die? By allowing Government to sponsor a religion, even if it’s your own, can you guarantee the majority will not shift in the future?
Neutrality. Choices. That’s what freedom is all about!
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colt1860
Sep. 14, 2012 at 7:55pmThe US Supreme Court in the last 50-60 years has NOT interpreted the US federal Constitution, but has arbitrarily, deceitfully, and under color of judicial review, amended the Constitution to mean something foreign to the original intent of our forefathers.
In 1801, President Thomas Jefferson stated in his First Inaugural Address:
“Let us, then, with courage and confidence pursue our own federal and republican principles… enlightened by a benign religion, professed, indeed, and practiced in various forms, yet all of them including honesty, truth, temperance, gratitude, and the love of man; acknowledging and adoring an overruling Providence, which by all its dispensations proves that it delights in the happiness of man here and his greater happiness hereafter; With all these blessings, what more is necessary to make us a happy and prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow citizens – a wise and frugal government… which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned… And may that Infinite Power which rules the destinies of the universe, lead our councils to what is best, and give them a favorable issue for your peace and prosperity.”
In 1798, Thomas Jefferson wrote at the occasion of the Kentucky Resolution:
“No power over the freedom of religion…[is] delegated to the United States by the Constitution.”
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colt1860
Sep. 14, 2012 at 8:14pmOn September 28, 1820, Jefferson wrote to William Jarvis:
“You see… to consider the judges as the ultimate arbiters of all constitutional questions; a very dangerous doctrine indeed, and one which would place us under the despotism of an oligarchy. Our judges are as honest as other men, and not more so… and their power [is] the more dangerous, as they are in office for life and not responsible, as the other functionaries are, to the elective control. The Constitution has erected no such single tribunal, knowing that to whatever hands confided, with corruptions of time and party, its members would become despots.”
In 1821, Jefferson wrote to Mr. Hammond:
“The germ of dissolution of our federal government is in… the federal judiciary; an irresponsible body (for impeachment is scarcely a scare-crow) working like gravity by night and by day, gaining a little today and a little tomorrow, and advancing its noiseless step like a thief, over the field of jurisdiction, until all shall be usurped from the States.”
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colt1860
Sep. 14, 2012 at 8:24pmThe incorporation doctrine as practiced by these modern, radical judges is an absurdity and slap to our Constitutional Republic.
In 1947, Justice Felix Frankfurter examined the incorporation doctrine, in his concurring opinion in Adamson v. California. He stated that in the past 70 years 43 judges considered the breadth of the fourteenth Amendments applicability. These included judges that were present during the drafting and passing of the fourteenth Amendment. He said that of all those judges, only one indicated that the fourteenth Amendment was inclusive of the Bill of Rights, or formed a summation of it. The liberal’s corruption of the fourteenth, executed by the single stroke of a judge’s pen, has led to the unfortunate spread of their Marxist agenda nationwide, without any consent, representation or debate by the People, or their respective State.
During the period between 1779-1781, Thomas Jefferson served as the Governor of Virginia, where he decreed a day of “public and solemn thanksgiving and prayer to Almighty God.”
On June 12, 1823, in a letter to Justice William Johnson regarding the meaning to the Constitution, Thomas Jefferson wrote:
“On every question of construction, carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed.
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The Third Archon
Sep. 14, 2012 at 8:40pm@COLT
Nice series of appeals to authority there.
As for your view of the 14th amendment, you’re flat out wrong. Not only was the EXPLICIT purpose of it AT PASSAGE (along with the other Reconstruction amendments) to guarantee EXACTLY the rights in the B.O.R. (that’s the “privileges and immunities of citizens of the United States” it is referring to) which the south had long denied whole swathes of its population, but it was CONSERVATIVE judges who willfully interpreted NOT to mean EXACTLY what it EXPLICITLY was intended to mean for almost a hundred years which is WHY the incorporation doctrine of GRADUAL ad hoc application had to be developed–specifically BECAUSE conservative judges REFUSED to implement the radical changes and ALL the rights Congress EXPLICITLY intended at its passage–judicial interpretation is a sword that cuts both ways, and the Right is, and has been throughout history, every bit as guilty of expansive interpretation as has the Left.
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colt1860
Sep. 14, 2012 at 8:55pm@arc That’s NOT “my” view. Didn’t I just cite a Supreme Court Justice’s actual court Opinion, not mine? LOL. The fourteenth did not “guarantee EXACTLY the rights in the BOR”. The Supreme Court Justices included rights found in the BOR through their findings of liberties existent in ancient English law, or our Common law. Until the 1940′s, the Supreme had only used the BOR to find liberties worthy of protection by the fourteenth, but never applied the BOR to the States. Most of the Justices that made jumps and leaps to that persuasion were those appointed by Mr. Progressive himself, FDR. Their Opinions were unprecedented, unfounded, and not supported by historical background or previous court cases. They set out to form a new kind of national Government, albeit one destructive of our federal union of free and independent States.
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encinom
Sep. 14, 2012 at 9:55pmcolt1860
Posted on September 14, 2012 at 8:55pm
@arc That’s NOT “my” view. Didn‘t I just cite a Supreme Court Justice’s actual court Opinion,
________________________
Actually, you didn’t, you cited a concurring opinion, a concurrence is not the holding of the court and those not have any legal authority unlike the Courts holding.
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RebelPatriot
Sep. 14, 2012 at 10:09pmUntil Americans understand the best way to destroy an oppressive government is to eliminate it’s revenues, we will continue to be oppressed as Christians.
The present administration has become a champion of the Muslim right to express their hatred toward Americans as they continue to oppress the rights of Christians in a nation built by Christians.
Take your children out of public schools and place them in schools where the morality and values of Christianity can be taught on a daily basis, or run the risk of having your own children grow up to be the same soul less creatures that presently control our government.
The choice is simple, stop feeding the government monopoly that continues to take your God given rights.
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colt1860
Sep. 14, 2012 at 10:37pmIt’s still NOT “my” opinion.
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colt1860
Sep. 14, 2012 at 11:34pm@American Soldier (Separated) Your last comment sounds nice, commendable, sweet and jolly. And it would be perfectly fine if we were some socialist country in Europe, but this is America, where since our founding, every President has sworn on the Holy Bible, and every session of Congress has began with a Prayer. Welcome to the great USA!
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prich01
Sep. 14, 2012 at 11:56pmSo let me get this straight. A school or school official cannot pray at an athletic event but both political conventions (funded by tax dollars) opened and closed with prayer. I’m sick of the hypocrisy. These parents need to get over themselves. They don’t have to agree with the prayer, but they don’t need to ruin the experience for everyone else just because its not what they want. By the way, most prayers before athletic events are for the safety of the players. What parent would be offended by that???
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scarebear83
Sep. 15, 2012 at 12:37amMy question is who’s saying it’s endorsed by the school? Think about infomercials on certain networks they always say, “the following broadcast does not reflect the views of such n such network.” Just because a student or teacher wants to say a prayer before an event doesn’t mean it’s school endorsed.
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ReaganFan1965
Sep. 15, 2012 at 5:38amArchon, there’s one simple fact that blows away everything you’ve spewed on this page. They are there voluntarily. They are not captive. No one is requiring them to be there or to pray. During the prayer they could be playing video games on their iPhone. No one cares. Your whole argument is moot because the prayer is 100% voluntary to participate in.
This whole thing is an issue because a small minority don’t like to feel uncomfortable. Until recently (also known as the good old days of America), in a situation like this, if you weren’t religious you would have some respect for those that are and you would sit and wait out the prayer for the whole 32 seconds and then get on with your life after the prayer was over. In today’s America, when someone is a little uncomfortable they have to ruin it for the rest of us.
It’s not unconstitutional. Period.
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Locked
Sep. 15, 2012 at 6:51amArchon pretty much nailed it in his first comment. No one is being denied the right to pray. The Supreme Court is clear on school-led prayer at public sports events: it’s unconstitutional. So if you’re arguing that they’re wrong, you obviously don’t understand the legal structure of the United States.
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mudguy
Sep. 15, 2012 at 11:51amWhat religion is the prayer promoting? Show us where in the Constitution the words ” Separation of church and state” All it is is showing that we believe in God which you don’t. By forcing us not to have a prayer you are forcing to believe like you. To be constant why don’t you refused to our money.
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UnreconstructedLibertarian
Sep. 15, 2012 at 3:25pmThe unspoken, 800lb gorilla in the room is this:
Government is in full control, via funding, of the educational system.
Separate yourself from this funding, you are an independent body. End of story, end of “mandate”.
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nella111
Sep. 15, 2012 at 3:53pmNext they will want to abolish the church bells, and eliminate singing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs because SOMEONE might hear them and be offended! Accommodate doesn’t mean Establish.
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totripoli
Sep. 15, 2012 at 4:47pm@Mudguy
Except that it’s not. Let me illustrate it for you:
Sponsorship of religion: State sanctioned prayer promoting a specific religion.
Neutral: Nothing sanctioned by the State promoting belief or nonbelief.
Sponsorship of Atheism: State sanctioned promotion of Atheism.
State sanctioned promotion of a personal religious belief is wrong either way, whether it promotes a religion or the absence of one.
Also, in general, Atheists are against the words “In God we trust” printed on money as well. A practice added to coinage in the 1864 and on paper currency in 1957.
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Quester55
Sep. 15, 2012 at 8:07pmFrom that Dark day back in the Early 60′s when M.M.O’Hare and her Pack/Coven of Witches Confronted the U.S.Supreme Court Jesters, to End All Jewish or Christian Bibles in Public Schools, those Few have Controlled the Many with Their HATE.
The strange thing is, These Swine claim that there is no God, That’s o.k. but then these HYPOCRITES DENI THOSE WITH FAITH their God Given Rights to Pray, Any where, at Any time or Anyplace they choose!. We Need to Fight for our Rights, Or Sure as Hell, We’ll Lose Them!
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Quester55
Sep. 15, 2012 at 8:14pmMyself, If I where able, I’d take those two big mouths, dip them in warm tar and cover them with YELLOW FEATHERS and ride them both out on a rail, with a warning, never come back!! It worked in the early 1900, it should be even more effective today!
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HermanHusband
Sep. 15, 2012 at 8:38pmOur moment of rebellion! They should pray out loud and refuse to obey an unrighteous dictate. We will not obey!
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DLV
Sep. 15, 2012 at 10:12pmlocked- I have a question for you if you don’t mind. Since we have established you are a christian before, what happens if you stand before God someday and he asks how come you didn’t support prayer? Whats more important me or man made law?
I’m not being mean or anything I’m just curious of your response.
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TulsaYeeHaw
Sep. 16, 2012 at 12:45am@thirdarchon
You stated to read the text, so here:
Congress shall make NO LAW respecting the establishment of religion, nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
You aren’t forced by local, county, state or federal law to be there, listen, participate, nor in anyway take part or otherwise be a member of the group who prays, and it is THEIR school. You don’t have a right to prevent someone else from using a PA to lead people in prayer, even if that PA is taxpayer funded, even if the event and the location is taxpayer funded. Because THEY PAID FOR IT TOO. That community can spend its money how it chooses, which leads us to part 2 of the text of the 1st amendment “NOR PROHIBITING FREE EXERCISE THEREOF. They are trying to prevent prayer on public property, this is just the first step and you know it. Next it will be people can’t pray there because it is gov’t property, and “I have the right to be there without listening to his prayer.”
PROGRESS, slow, sure, and steady. See these bastards for who they are, they will come for your liberty too.
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old white guy
Sep. 16, 2012 at 7:43amdarkjello, you are right another rip in the constitution. it is time to ignore all anti-Christian edicts from anyone anywhere. civil disobedience where it comes to Christianity is long past due. time to take these people to the woodshed.
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Locked
Sep. 16, 2012 at 8:29am@DLV
“I have a question for you if you don’t mind. Since we have established you are a christian before, what happens if you stand before God someday and he asks how come you didn’t support prayer?”
I will point out to Him that I fully support prayer. I will point out that I pray every day. And I will point out that while I spread the Good News, I do not need to overthrow the Constitution of the US to do so.
“Whats more important me or man made law?”
Assuming you’re talking for God right here? God is more important, obviously. However, nowhere in the Christian religion is it mandated that we, as Christians, overtake public events and make captive audiences bow to our prayers and beliefs. All knees may bend, but forcing them to bend through such means is not remotely Christ-like.
“I‘m not being mean or anything I’m just curious of your response.”
I don’t think you’re being mean, no worries :-) I DO think you don’t understand the situation, as you misrepresented the facts of the case.
Here’s a question for you in return. In the last article on this topic (prayer stopping at UT football games), some posters said that this was a valid reason to start a Crusade and kill all the atheists in the US. Do you think that this is an appropriate response that God would agree with?
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DLV
Sep. 16, 2012 at 7:03pmlocked- “Here’s a question for you in return. In the last article on this topic (prayer stopping at UT football games), some posters said that this was a valid reason to start a Crusade and kill all the atheists in the US. Do you think that this is an appropriate response that God would agree with?”
Lol, ah no. To me the people who said that are Christain trolls. I can’t really see what killing atheists would prove. We would be labled like Muslim terrorists. I guess the time to make war is when Jesus comes back but until then, no. We shouldn’t be doing that on our own terms. Besides Jesus says not to force unbelievers. Case closed.
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Pigpen
Sep. 16, 2012 at 8:34pmThe United States of America is a CHRISTIAN NATION. It is NOT a “nation of laws” or a “proposition nation” here for “everyone.” Providence guided the Mayflower. God inspired the founding of this nation which, lest we forget, was founded in WAR. And the USA was founded not in just any kind of war, but in CIVIL WAR. The war between the Colonies and England was more brother against brother than the Civil War ever was. I do NOT feel guilty for being white. I do NOT feel ashamed of being a Christian. And unlike our religious leaders who will do or say ANYTHING to be well liked by the lowlife, east-coast intelligentsia, I unabashedly TESTIFY that the USA is a CHRISTIAN NATION. Jesus Christ is the Savior of the World. Jesus Christ Founded and through His Providence has Guided the United States of America which has always been, is now, and by His grace will forever be a CHRISTIAN NATION. I so testify to you all, friends and foes alike, in the Name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
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binge_thinker
Sep. 17, 2012 at 12:18amAnd for some good news.
PA: District decides NOT to move Ten Commandments display from Connellsville school.
http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/district-decides-not-move-ten-commandments-display/nR9ND/
Federal court refused to stop public prayer at county meetings.
http://www.adfmedia.org/files/HamiltonCountyPIdenial.pdf
Council to replace Lord’s Prayer with Psalm 23, which is still a public proclamtion to God.
http://capegazette.villagesoup.com/news/story/sussex-county-council-gives-up-lords-prayer/895462
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VoteBushIn12
Sep. 17, 2012 at 12:37am@NHWINTER
“How about flooding the school with letters protesting the absence of prayer. Atheist are a tiny minority.”
The reason that wont work:
Atheist get their way not because of their numbers or that they scream the loudest. They get their way because they are RIGHT. You can have as many people screaming 2+2=5 all you want, it only takes one person to present evidence in court that 2+2=4 for the judge to rule you are all idiots.
The Constitution is explicit.
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”
Congress shall not favor any religion over any other, nor will it inhibit any religion over any other.
To allow a public school to pray would be to FAVOR Christianity over others in a public space. If people want to stand there and pray on their own they will not PROHIBIT such activities, but it should not participate in them either.
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binge_thinker
Sep. 17, 2012 at 12:53amMost on which the militant godless base their outrage has little to do with the constitution, but about further expanding the reach of Everson v. BOE, the 1947 SC decision that has held up over the years in a rather spotty manner. As the constitution says nothing of a “separation of church and state”, the “wall” spoken of by the SC comes from a Thomas Jefferson letter written 13 years after these clauses originated, yet this has been applied in the most nonsensical way imaginable.
Since atheists mention logic so much (despite their constant misuse of it), can you please explain the logic of how an allegory written by Jefferson should seriously be used as an authoritative declaration in regards to the establishment cause, despite the fact that that Jefferson had nothing to do with the creation of those clauses, and his letter post-dated the Constitution by 13 years?
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Hiswill
Sep. 17, 2012 at 8:58amRead this article and thought about the movie I saw this weekend, The Last Ounce of Courage. This movie was very inspiring, but not well received in our community. There was a very low turnout at the theaters (I saw it twice). Everyone should see this movie and not just conservative Christians. I thought it was a great follow-up to Obama’s 2016 and hoped it would get the same large crowds attending.
We blog, we talk and we blog some more about how American values are changing and how our freedoms are being taken from us, but the majority of us don’t get out there and do anything about it. We need to get back the America our founders fought and died for.
“Last Ounce of Courage opens Friday, September 14 in theaters nationwide! Last Ounce of Courage is a celebration of family, faith, and taking a stand for what we believe in. It is a story of a grieving father, inspired by his grandson to take a stand for faith and freedom against a tide of apathy and vanishing liberty. Join the cast and crew of Last Ounce of Courage and StandUSA to help us send a message to Hollywood, big media, and our government: Americans will act to uphold and promote our values, and we will no longer sit quietly by while those values are disregarded.
Liberty needs champions. Add your voice to the call for values-based entertainment by going to see Last Ounce of Courage, and by joining StandUSA.”
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Critters58
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:12pmIt is not unconstitutional for prayer in school! When are people going to wake up and stop being afraid! Stand up America and fight back! Pray everywhere!
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The Third Archon
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:20pmTrue, prayer in school per se is not illegal–but prayer sponsored (tacitly or explicitly) by public officials (such as employees of the school, or those acting with school authority) to a captive audience (i.e. the students) IS unconstitutional.
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Gregb
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:30pma
BIG – AMEN to that!
seems to me that there are more zealots in the atheist religion that in the Christian religion. And why don’t atheists pick on muslims? Could it be that they don’t believe that it is a real religion?
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NHwinter
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:39pmGregb – exactly, Go to NYC and sue the muslims for praying in the street. Bloomberg allows that!!!
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gperky
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:50pmARCHON,
If the majority of the school wants prayer, then the rest should close their ears. If you say that we are not governed by the majority, then why do we elect our officials with majority or pass laws by majority? The problem is we are being “governed”: by a minority because they get their “feelings” hurt! Poor babies!
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U.N.hater
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:53pm@THETURD: Wrong again! Why don’t you commi’s just leave? When the SHTF i’ll be standing with costitutional americans who believe in the constitution the way it is written. No matter what their faith is. And no Islam is not a religeon it is a cult so they will not be allowed. The U.N. isn’t the only thing i dispise..
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carbonated
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:54pm@The Third Archon: “…prayer sponsored (tacitly or explicitly)” by public officials (such as employees of the school, or those acting with school authority) to a captive audience (i.e. the students) IS unconstitutional.
WRONG! Where does the U.S. Constitution back you up?! It doesn’t – not at all. Read, the 1st amendment. It does NOT say that a public official cannot sponsor or encourage or promote religious activity. It says that the “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion…” Prayer at a school game is NOT the U.S. CONGRESS making a LAW related to the establishment of religion.
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Gregb
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:55pmThis whole thing is ridiculous. atheists can’t prove Christianity wrong, so they ridicule and try to put a stop to it. The Bible has been proven to be the truth and to be fact – time and time again. Archeologists used to try to prove the Bible wrong…now they use it for reference! The koran is all fiction and science is nothing but unproven theory.
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Gregb
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:58pm@gperky…
we are being governed by the liberal courts!
The courts have ruled that we have to be ruled by sharia law… sharia law is based on a religion and that goes against our constitution!
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Gregb
Sep. 14, 2012 at 6:12pmto the third…
prayer is not unconstitutional… our liberal courts have just used their own misguided opinions to make the law….separation OF church and state, so their law is unconstitutional…
our country was founded by explorers that were escaping religious persecution by the catholic church. They were protestant. They marked their territory with crosses. George Washington, the Father of our Country, required all Officers and Soldiers, not engaged on actual duty, “a punctual attendance of Divine Services, to implore the blessings of Heaven upon the means used for our safety and defense. The General hopes and trusts, that every officer and man, will endeavor so to live, and act, as becomes a “CHRISTIAN” Soldier, defending the dearest Rights and Liberties of his country.” Thomas Jefferson, wrote a version of the Bible. James Madison (our 4th President) called for a National Day of Prayer. John Quincy adams wrote in his diary in 1810: “I have made it a practice for several years to read the Bible through in a course of every year.”
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The Third Archon
Sep. 14, 2012 at 6:13pm@GPERKY
Well, there’s this thing called THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES, and what it does is protect rights that we as a society have decided are too important to just be enjoyed at the whim of stupid emotional majorities of people (like the one I’m assuming you are a part of given your posts). You can’t vote on whether or not a segment of society “deserves” free speech” because its too important to the democratic process to allow a majority to undermine this same process. That’s why we have a high bar for constitutional amendment, and that’s why we HAVE a constitution in the first place. If you want to live in an majoritarian absolutist ****-hole, move to Russia. In fact, given their policies, most of the people on this website would fit RIGHT in–flat tax, virtually no social safety net or regulatory laws to speak of, and so forth. How ironic that the former Soviet Union is the PERFECT political climate for the far right of this country.
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Gregb
Sep. 14, 2012 at 6:23pm@ third archon
if you accept the principle of the separation of church and state being implied by the 1st Amendment, it’s implication is not there to protect Americans FROM religion, it is there to protect religious Americans FROM THE GOVERNMENT.
In the Constitution of the Soviet Union, however, the doctrine of the separation of Church and State is found: “In order to ensure to citizens freedon of conscience, the church in the U.S.S.R. is separated from the State, and the school from the church. ( SOUND FAMILIAR??) It goes on…”Freedom of religious worship and freedom of antireligious propaganda is recognized for all citizens” (Article 124) Article Twelve of the 1918 Soviet Constitution decrees that no church or religious organization “shall enjoy the rights of judicial person.” Instruction of children under age 18 in religious matters, whether in public or private, is against the law.
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The Third Archon
Sep. 14, 2012 at 6:36pm@GREGB
No one is debating the legality of prayer writ large. The issue is whether or not religious beliefs and practices (prayer being the instant case, but the principle is applicable writ large) can be supported by public authority or resources, either implicitly or explicitly.
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encinom
Sep. 14, 2012 at 6:38pmIt is not unconstitutional for a student to pray in school, it is unconstitutional for the school, an employee or agent thereof to lead others, especially students, in a pray. The facts and the contexts all matter.
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encinom
Sep. 14, 2012 at 6:40pmgperky
Posted on September 14, 2012 at 5:50pm
ARCHON,
If the majority of the school wants prayer, then the rest should close their ears. If you say that we are not governed by the majority, then why do we elect our officials with majority or pass laws by majority? The problem is we are being “governed”: by a minority because they get their “feelings” hurt! Poor babies!
________________________
The Constitution was written to prevent the tyranny of the majority from imposing its will on the minority. If an action is Unconstitutional, it doesn’t matter if it has 100% support, it is still illegal.
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The Third Archon
Sep. 14, 2012 at 6:45pm@GREGB
That’s also not what anyone’s arguing when they say “separation of church and state.” What the constitution says, and what most people ask be honored therein, is the principle that the public authority elected to represent ALL Americans, a group of diverse and mutually exclusive positions on religion, be NEUTRAL with regards to religion. That means, public monies and public endorsement, sanction, or approval cannot be used to either FAVOR or DISFAVOR any particular religious persuasion. That is also what “secular” as opposed to “atheist” or even “agnostic” means–atheist means you believe all religions to be false, agnostic means you aren’t sure, and secular means you have no position on the matter one way or the other; your judgment is suspended. You tolerate, i.e. allow, all beliefs on the matter but support none. Secularism thus isn’t a belief in a particular religious persuasion per se, but a view on how religious persuasions should be treated under the law. That might not be good enough for extremist theocratic theists, but it is the law of this country and has been for decades, and it is the only just way to run a pluralistic democracy.
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encinom
Sep. 14, 2012 at 6:45pmcarbonated
Posted on September 14, 2012 at 5:54pm
@The Third Archon: “…prayer sponsored (tacitly or explicitly)” by public officials (such as employees of the school, or those acting with school authority) to a captive audience (i.e. the students) IS unconstitutional.
WRONG! Where does the U.S. Constitution back you up?! It doesn’t – not at all. Read, the 1st amendment. It does NOT say that a public official cannot sponsor or encourage or promote religious activity. It says that the “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion…” Prayer at a school game is NOT the U.S. CONGRESS making a LAW related to the establishment of religion.
_____________________
14th Amendment incorporates the 1st Amendment to the States and Agents of the States. Additionally, the jurisprudence surrounding this issue is quite clear as to what is and is not unconstitutional. Your comment assumes that (a) the Constitution was never Amended and (b) Court Opinions have no weight or meaning. We have always been a common law nation, one aspect is that Court interpretations become governing law.
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Sosorryforyou
Sep. 14, 2012 at 6:46pm@THIRD ARCHON
I think I’m in love….you’ve said it perfectly, accurately, and more intelligently than anyone else on this site. Maybe you’ll educate a few people! Hope to see more of you here on The Blaze. :)
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Eastinfection
Sep. 14, 2012 at 6:49pm@ENCINOM… Wow! I finally get to meet the “famous” ENCINOM that i have, ever increasingly, been accused of being in the last two months. I now see why. I’m sure we’ll inevitably disagree on a variety of issues but your take here resembles mine. Cheers.
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Gregb
Sep. 14, 2012 at 6:52pm@encinom
nonsense… so we should pick our president by the “fewest” votes…because what you are saying is that the minority should rule.
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Wolfgang the Gray
Sep. 14, 2012 at 7:02pm@The Third Archon – Man, you need to quit smoking those banana peels. Russia (specifically the former Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) is the atheist, socialist, left’s wet dream. All religion icons are forbidden; there is no God, only government; the government provides you a job, a home, a car, money for food, and they decide who gets free speech (nobody but the government). As for “…a segment of society ‘deserves’ free speech…”, you apparently don’t understand that EVERYONE is entitled to free speech. That includes, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus, Atheists, and every other flavor of person in this country. You are the one that seems to have decided that everyone has free speech, except Christians. If I go to an event and there are Jews praying, do I jump up, stomp my feet, hold my breath, and cry fowl? No, I respect their right of free speech to pray. If Atheists want to put up signs saying there is no God, I have no problem with that as that is their right to free speech. They just better not come and tell me I can’t have a sign up praising God because then they are hypocrites. Either everyone has free speech or nobody does (the latter is the mantra of the socialists and apparently many atheists).
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Gregb
Sep. 14, 2012 at 7:08pm@ third archon…
I wish that this website was more user friendly.
you are saying that the authority to interpret the constitution should be elected and neutral….the court is neither. the courts rare corrupt with liberal atheists. The courts are the deciding factor…well, until obama became dictator.
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The Third Archon
Sep. 14, 2012 at 7:09pm@GREGB
You are really good at conflating too unrelated issues together. The point of protection from SOME majoritarian decisions applies to specifically enumerated rights protected in state and federal constitutions. These rights are so protected because society considers them too important and fundamental to be merely enjoyed during the good graces of the majority. That principle doesn’t apply to ANY and EVERY policy or election–just those things which we as a society have codified in our constitutions as deserving special heightened protection. Get the two straight.
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Gregb
Sep. 14, 2012 at 7:11pm@ wolfgang…
very, very well said… I’ve wasted so much space and you said it in a paragraph…THANK YOU!!!!
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The Third Archon
Sep. 14, 2012 at 7:24pm@WOLFGANG
You clearly haven’t examined Russian politics or society recently.
@GREGB
I never said anything about the neutrality of judges–what I said was that the doctrine of “separation of church and state” (a common way of referring to 1st amendment jurisprudence on the religious clauses of the 1st amendment) requires the neutrality of PUBLIC monies and authorities with respect to religious persuasions. Nor did I say the Supreme Court, yes those who are tasked by constitutional division of powers with interpreting the constitution and laws pursuant thereunto, should be elected. Personally, I don’t think they should be. But that’s irrelevant, because I never said anything ABOUT the Supreme Court, other than recognizing the status quo division of public authority that gives them final say on what the federal constitution means.
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Gregb
Sep. 14, 2012 at 7:25pm@ THE THIRD ACHON…
You sound like you’ve spent your life in law school. You have my sympathy, but not support. Lawyers are people with lack of understanding that try to confuse with terminology. It’s like they are saying “I’m smarter than you – nanny nanny boo boo”
I would rather prove my point with common sense than try to BS with language.
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The Third Archon
Sep. 14, 2012 at 7:38pm@GREGB
I just understand distinctions and am not ignorant of history, science, politics, jurisprudence, or economics. But I guess its better to form your “common sense” opinions based upon hearsay and emotional gut reactions than upon critical, thoughtful, and through consideration of credible fact–you really showed me alright!
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American Soldier (Separated)
Sep. 14, 2012 at 7:40pmI am no lawyer, so let me break it down for you in my own, laymen terms Greg. You are the majority today, but will you be the majority tomorrow? Will Christianity be the majority in 20 years? 50 years?
There are certain rights we have protected even by the 99% vote because they are too important to be given to the majority. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. By allowing the majority to dictate and sponsor a religion, you open the gates for future religions to take over. You have no problem with prayer in school TODAY because Christians are in charge of the majority. What happens when Muslims become the 51% of majority and instead of Christian prayers in school, there are Islamic prayers in school? Would you be fine with that? It’s still prayer in school, regardless of religion. I would bet my entire years salary you would be up in arms if that were to happen.
We do not want majority rules. Our founding fathers did not want to give us a democracy, they knew better. We are a Republic, govern by the laws of our Constitution. Neutrality is the key to freedom in a diverse country such as America
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The Third Archon
Sep. 14, 2012 at 7:52pm^AMERICAN SOLDIER
This guy knows what’s up–though we take positions in the debate, it is the debate itself which much be preserved. It is no more acceptable that the government allow Christianity unfair privilege in schools, than were it to allow Islam or atheism the same privileges. None should be dispositively taught as absolute truth–rather it is the debate itself which we MUST safeguard in a democratic and pluralistic society. We must doubt a little of our own infallibility and place our faith within the discourse of ideas and trust that our fellow citizens, being adults possessing all the capabilities of humans, are sufficient unto themselves to be judges of what is reasonable, true, and beneficial. This requires of us conserving certain rights whose exercise we will not always agree with, indeed we may feel threatened by them, but we must not fear ideas in and of themselves. We must not allow our fear to destroy the delicate dialectic which is our only hitherto known method for discerning the truth from falsehood, and coming to a consensus, a unanimity, which we can justly live under in harmony. All that we value and hold dear depends upon our discipline in this regard.
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Gregb
Sep. 14, 2012 at 7:59pmglad that you know history, science, politics, jurisprudence, and economics. I am just not really impressed with language. Would rather argue with reason.
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Gregb
Sep. 14, 2012 at 8:06pm@american soldier
well thought out response and I am in accord for the most part. I still know that our country was founded on Christianity and that we have the right to bear arms. Our founding fathers were the very best!
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The Third Archon
Sep. 14, 2012 at 8:21pm@GREGB
Everyone thinks their own reasoning is always sound–none of them ever always right, and very often they are wrong and blind to their own fallacies, so of course you find yourself reasonable; if you could recognize your mistakes as such, you wouldn’t make them. Reason involves rigorous and careful consideration of claims, with skepticism until they are evidenced–believing in wildly extraordinary claims without any substantiating evidence is not reasonable, and couldn’t be further from. And reason, requires a basis of knowledge upon which to inform its judgment. Everyone has the CAPACITY for reason, but that doesn’t mean everyone is equally, or even particularly, skilled at its EXERCISE. It takes proper PRACTICE, like any skill, for one’s ABILITY in one’s natural capacities to improve. And I assure you, EXCELLENCE in this skill is anything BUT “common sensible.”
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Gregb
Sep. 14, 2012 at 9:51pm@third archon…
really liked the “reasoning” response. very good points.
I’m watching Beck on the Blaze talking about Romney and interviewing the people that Romney has “touched”. Your reply was very good…thanks.
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American Soldier (Separated)
Sep. 15, 2012 at 12:53pmI’m shocked right now….. I don’t even know what to say!
=)
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Bob
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:10pmSo when is someone in this country going to get the brass balls to speak out and tell the People, all the People, to read the Constitution for once and get it right. The Constitution’s first amendment says, “Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or PROHIBITING the FREE exercise thereof”.
First of all praying in school or anywhere else is not a LAW created by Congress and it can certainly be seen as the FREE EXCERCISE thereof. School districts are not congress and they can not pass any laws. If some folks believe the Constitution only applies to actions by the Federal Government then a local school is a state matter not federal. We need to take up a collection and get a high powered attorney to take a case to the Supreme Court and have them actually read the Constitution. If you don’t want to practice religion you are well within your rights to not do that, but you have absolutely no right to infringe on the free exercise of religion by others. Stand up America. Someone has to.
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encinom
Sep. 14, 2012 at 6:47pmAnd than there is the 14th Amendment which incorporates the 1st Amendment to the States and the various court opinions that define and interpret the Establishment Clause. You guys seem to believe that their are only 10 Amendments and nothing else.
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colt1860
Sep. 14, 2012 at 8:08pmThe incorporation doctrine as practiced by these modern, radical judges is an absurdity and a slap to our Constitutional Republic.
In 1947, Justice Felix Frankfurter examined the incorporation doctrine, in his concurring opinion in Adamson v. California. He stated that in the past 70 years 43 judges considered the breadth of the fourteenth Amendments applicability. These included judges that were present during the drafting and passing of the fourteenth Amendment. He said that of all those judges, only one indicated that the fourteenth Amendment was inclusive of the Bill of Rights, or formed a summation of it. The liberal’s modern attempt to change the meaning of the fourteenth, has led to their Marxist agenda being able to be spread nationally by the single stroke of a judge’s pen; without any consent, representation or debate by We the People.
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encinom
Sep. 14, 2012 at 10:00pmThat’s nice colt, Frankfurter’s opinion has been ignored and nor is it the holding of the Court.
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colt1860
Sep. 14, 2012 at 10:53pmThe will of We the People and our States has been ignored by a Supreme Court that has made itself arbiter of our social, cultural and religious values. They have conferred upon themselves an unconstitutional expansion of Power to control We the People. They have aided Congress in unconstitutionally expanding their Power to extents never imagined by our forefathers, and have taken away from the People their right and power to preserve and guard their heritage and local customs. This Supreme Court has unconstitutionally assumed jurisdiction over areas it doesn’t concern it. While they may interpret the Constitution, they may not add, nor take away from it. They may not assume new powers, rights or duties, nor enlarge them, especially without consent. Their role isn’t to shape or form our nation, or to go against us. They are to support the Constitution, not implement a new meaning or understanding to it. Only the legislature through the Amendment process may alter it.
In a letter to Abigail Adams, September 11, 1804, Jefferson wrote:
“Nothing in the Constitution has given them [the federal judges] a right to decide for the Executive, more than to the Executive to decide for them… But the opinion which gives to the judges the right to decide what laws are constitutional, and what not, not only for themselves in their own sphere of action, but for the legislature and executive also, in their spheres, would make the judiciary a despotic branch.”
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carbonated
Sep. 14, 2012 at 11:07pm@encinom: You’re attempt to make a point assumes that you can invalidate the 1st Amendment; which you can’t. 14th Amendment doesn’t change the 1st Amendment, nor does it relate to this issue at all. Your liberal ‘argument’ is a red herring.
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American Soldier (Separated)
Sep. 15, 2012 at 1:06pmI believe you’ve misinterpreted Econim’s argument. He’s not saying the 14th Amendment nullifies the 1st, but that the 14th amendment makes the 1st amendment apply to the states, not just to Congress or the federal government.
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momrules
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:10pmGood for this town full of God loving people. They took it out of the hands of the government and the FFRF by standing together. Keep on praying people, please keep on praying.
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antitheist
Sep. 14, 2012 at 6:04pmMatthew 22 37: Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
Matthew 10 28: Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
1 John 4 18: There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
We must love and fear god, but there is no fear in love? What kind of mental ward wrote this compilation?
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encinom
Sep. 14, 2012 at 6:51pmNo body took away the rights of these fools, their rights were being protected. The school was in violation of the Constitution.
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Tractorboy
Sep. 14, 2012 at 6:53pmI’m praying with you MOMRULES, our bible study group added to our prayer list, a prayer for our country, would be awesome if all study groups added it in, to help our country heal.
Verse I love….. Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
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TEARS FOR AMERICA
Sep. 15, 2012 at 3:57pmThanks MOMRULES…when they forbid Christians from praying we will pray anyway…let’s all of us commit to praying, especially for this nation, especially in front of others around us…
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The-Monk
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:10pmI think that maybe the local Governments should pass laws that say you can’t complain about any local policies unless you’ve lived in the local area for a determined amount of time. And then a local vote be taken.
The issue is that the people who are doing this don’t even live where they are complaining and if they do they are not in the majority.
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kcares
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:27pmThe Monk: Good Idea. The little town of Gallatin, a small country town with major history, was attacked by the ACLU, and didn’t have the money to fight back. Their schools couldn’t open on time because they didn’t have the money, crooked politicians. Our country is being destroyed by these Libs. and I know so many Dems. that are still voting Dem. and not seeing what is happening. It makes me want to cry.
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Eastinfection
Sep. 14, 2012 at 6:08pm@ MONK. I have read your posts for two months so i know you know that originally, the 1st Amendment applied only to laws enacted by the Congress and starting with Gitlow v. New York, the Supreme Court applied the First Amendment to the states via the 14th Amendment. “Majority rules” is a democratic concept. We are a Constitutional Republic. What if a School system’s tradition was to read the Koran or the Torah on the P.A. before football games? What if the majority of the community practiced Wicca and cast “spells” on the other team via their tax- payer paid P.A.?
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colt1860
Sep. 14, 2012 at 11:38pmThe Liberty Bell, Washington Monument, Presidential Inaugural Addresses, US Capitol Building, ETC. all show references to religious or biblical beliefs. It’s part of our heritage.
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chucksue351
Sep. 15, 2012 at 6:52amthe washington monument is an obelisk hardly something that Scripture approves
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bustedupvet
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:09pmNapalm sticks to athiests…what are we waiting for???
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woodyee
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:07pm“I am upset because I think our God-given rights are being taken away as well,” said Melinda Holden, a local.
Well, waddaya know – a genius…
The Left has taken nothing from us that we have not surrendered. Stand up, or fall. It’s as simple as that.
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hornz
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:05pmIt says they are not atheist in the story. I guess you can incite crazy religious people with a misleading title though. Another case of real classy journalism.
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THINKBEFOREYOUSPEAK
Sep. 15, 2012 at 5:28pmI think they were referring to the FFRF, the “atheist activist non-profit” organization that sent the threatening letter…. not the parents mentioned.
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Centralsville
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:04pmOnce again the left takes away our Constitutional rights. The right of free speech and free practice of religion don’t exist in this country anymore. Once again minority rights trump majority rights. This political correctness will be the death of this country. Our courts don’t protect us anymore. It breaks my heart to see the South, the last bastion of Christianity bow down to these self-destructive fools.
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Wayne
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:41pmNO NO they don’t take our rights away, we as a nation give it to them. I WILL stand up for my right to pray and to worship JESUS CHRIST when ever and where ever I am. and if the unbelievers and Muslims don’t like it there is nothing they can do about it. This a Christian Nation and if you don’t want to hear people pray than leave, I won’t stay around Muslims are atheists.
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encinom
Sep. 14, 2012 at 6:49pmWhat right was removed, no one took away the rights of individuals to pray, they prevented a school from violating the Establishment Clause.
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Dr Vel
Sep. 14, 2012 at 7:39pmNo prayer at a place supported by public money. Lets think about that. If those that pray outnumber those that do not yet they are the paying public then are they not the greatest support meaning own the largest percentage of the public place? Do not the rights of those who pray (and pay) outnumber and therefor outvote those who oppose? The constitution does not prevent prayer in a public funded location this is a lie from the outset. Since those who oppose get their way against the majority then should not from that moment of suppression on that minority pay for all of the public support since they have removed the rights in totality of the paying majority? Let them pay every dime of the public support since now they are the only ones being given rights on the so called ‘public’ property. At some point the majority needs to stand up and tell the letter writing FFRF to go straight to hell. What they did here was a start but this is not enough. The majority if they support their God should start a pool to hire lawyers to start massive nationwide lawsuits against this foundation and their whining minority. Or does the God fearing majority only support their God with words and not their substance?
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The Third Archon
Sep. 14, 2012 at 9:49pm@”DR” VEL
You completely miss the point–the problem is not prayer in and of itself, prayer in public, or even prayer on or in a publicly funded place (such as a school or at a school football game). The PROBLEM is prayer SANCTIONED by the public authorities or agents, OR prayer USING public resources (such as the stereo system at a PUBLIC high school football game) to a captive audience (i.e. an audience that came for the game, with no reasonable expectation of being subjected to a religious ritual so they can watch the game). It’s PERFECTLY FINE if they pray as PRIVATE INDIVIDUALS during the moment of silence before the game (in fact, that’s the whole POINT of the moment of silence is to give ALL faiths and value systems a chance to reflect upon what they hold dear in that time). What they CANNOT do is have the school tacitly or explicitly ENDORSE the prayer by either having an official give it, or by broadcasting it over the speaker system.
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chucksue351
Sep. 15, 2012 at 6:58amYeshua (jesus) told his Followers to pray in secret not out in the open like the pharisees, most of the so called prayers at sporting events are not prayers at all but speeches to rally the team, also why are these games being played on the Sabbath (friday at sundown is the start of the Sabbath)
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Max jones
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:01pmThe sons of Cain will push and push. The children of God can take it. They have eternity, And this age is drawing to an end. They hate Christ. If you love and honor God, they hate you, too. They have no perspective beyond this place, this minute. Little do they know, this place, this minute Is the Lord’s.
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PCsince1776
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:07pmMax – Well said!
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DeavonReye
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:09pmI’m glad I’m not one of those you are talking about. I WOULD be interested to know where you’re seeing that “they hate your deity” or “hate you”, personally. Regardless, I don’t hate either you, my christian friends, or any deity character spoken of by mouth or in a book.
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Jenny Lind
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:01pmI have a personal right to say a prayer out loud anywhere I want. As a rule I don’t do so in theaters during a movie, or other places that disturb other people’s right to hear what is being said by speakers, etc. Especially if they are paying for it. The embittered folks who brought this up will not be to happy living there, but their insistance on everything being what they want, has hurt a lot of feelings. Guess it was worth it for them to make their stand, and it sounds like the town is making theirs. So, everybody has their rights, they should be very proud.
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Eastinfection
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:00pmThis is beautiful. I think initiating the “moment of silence” was a wise and constitutional decision by this school system. I also think this community’s response to publicly say prayers together during this moment is a wonderful example of free speech, as provided by said Constitution. I hope they continue this practice long enough for it to become a tradition.. well done.
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Bob
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:13pmWho’s Constitution have you been reading??
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Eastinfection
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:39pmOurs.. And so has the Supreme Court. Their interpretation is LAW. (Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1 (1947)
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binge_thinker
Sep. 17, 2012 at 1:33amYou know what else is beautiful?
This….http://aclj.org/school-prayer/helping-good-news-club-started-pennsylvania
and this… http://aclj.org/school-prayer/school-allow-student-religious-flyers
and more…http://aclj.org/school-prayer/student-allowed-use-bible-school
last one for this page.
http://aclj.org/school-prayer/2011-victories-students-can-wear-religious-symbols-school
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Comrade1
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:00pmI am sorry to be crude, but that is ********! Christians have been taking this pish from every satan loving hater and their mothers for too long. We get it from Muslims, Jews, and recently Atheist. We let you believe in your gods and lack of gods, so give us our God-damned right to believe in Jesus and the global Christian Church!
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Oldphoto678
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:43pmYou can believe in anything you want. You can pray out loud all day every day. You can pray in school if you choose, but you are not going to have school sponsered prayer. If you don’t like it, oh well.
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daveposh
Sep. 14, 2012 at 4:59pmThese “atheists” are just as bad as the Muslim savages that are doing evil in Africa and Middle East.
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DeavonReye
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:07pmYou really think that “not wanting public officials saying a prayer over a PA system [in case it may offend a non-christian] is the same as fire bombs, property damage, and human lives being lost???
Please think before posting.
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FAITH47
Sep. 15, 2012 at 2:52pmAmen to that!
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turkey13
Sep. 14, 2012 at 4:56pmWhen some Georga Redneck gets their address I feel sorry for these people. Hope their fire detectors work and are loud enough to wake them up. They shouls not be behind on their homeowners policy. I couls see the mailman slipping and falling on their porch. He will then yell call 1-800-SUE-Them and then call 911.
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blackyb
Sep. 14, 2012 at 4:55pmThese people better start standing or they are going to get trampled.
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LB
Sep. 14, 2012 at 4:55pmKeep up the good work citizens and pray on….really loud
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blackyb
Sep. 14, 2012 at 4:54pmWhat ever happened to KMA (kiss my ***) to the atheists? That is what the should be told. If they want God out of schools, they should have their own schools.
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Max jones
Sep. 14, 2012 at 4:54pm“Ok, guys. From now on, instead of praying out loud we will pray to our selves, knowing we at least have the right to remain silent. I say ready,you yell Booyahh. Let’s roll.”
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Too_Far_Gone
Sep. 14, 2012 at 4:53pmDoes’t anyone have a backbone anymore ?
What the hell is wrong with you people, tell em to go to heII, it shouldn’t bother them, remember they don’t believe in it ….
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hogorina
Sep. 15, 2012 at 3:52pmPROFIT-RELIGION AND PROPHETS
Why are the world’s Gypsies treated so ugly. Under Zackariah, the prophet, these people were Jews.
This prophet let them go into Egypt in order to get away from the famine in Canaan. No man is nothing
that turns his back on his fellow man. We are all God’s children and should come under the covenant in which our creator swore that all nations through Abraham’s seed line would be blessed. However, the Gypsies are left on their own to be persecuted through out the world. The questioned remains : why can’t
these people get their palms into the U.S Treasury in using the organized religious scheme in raking in a few bucks from national tax payers. The rejuvenated scriptures-Come unto me and your man-made gods
will fill thy temples, ( bodies ), with worldly goods. Please do not turn thy backs on fellow creatures. This
would be an insult to an unknown creator.
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blackyb
Sep. 14, 2012 at 4:53pmThese are just fron men for the Muslims. They are not atheists. Christians should turn THEIR other cheek with a right hook when they start telling people to take prayer out of schools. They are setting up for the Muslims. These people who fold on this are ignorant and should not be allowed to have authority in schools.
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blkbelt7
Sep. 14, 2012 at 4:53pmcan someone tell me where in the constitution it says “separation of church and state”…I have a copy of the constitution and it is NOWHERE IN THERE
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BloodSweatandTears
Sep. 16, 2012 at 1:21amFIRST AMENDMENT
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;—– or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion (translation, Congress can’t establish a state religion,) or prohibiting the the free exercise thereof, (translation, Congress can not prohibit your enjoyment of your religion.) Therefore if your school uses a P.A. system to transmit a prayer you are only facilitated in exercising your religion, which in this case is Christian. Be prepared to hear any other religion if so desired.
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DimmuBorgir
Sep. 14, 2012 at 4:52pmWhat is with these FFRF people?
Don’t they take a day off?
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momrules
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:18pmNo, no time off for these folks. This is their job 24/7.
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GoMomGo
Sep. 14, 2012 at 4:51pmIf this superintendent says they are going to follow the guidelines of the Constitution by ceasing prayer before games then he obviously doesn’t know the Constitution!
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Sosorryforyou
Sep. 14, 2012 at 6:59pmSorry, but the 14th Amendment and the Supreme Court would say otherwise.
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colt1860
Sep. 14, 2012 at 11:28pmWhat part of the federal Constitution adopted by our founding fathers bans prayers before a LOCAL football game? I must have forgot the Federalist paper wherein Madison discusses the evil and harm a prayer, before a football game, or any game, will do to our constitutional Republic. Oh, right. It must have been after the discussion about banning construction of a highway if a small “endangered” spider is found to live there. LOL. Thanks for the history lesson. Not.
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DeavonReye
Sep. 14, 2012 at 4:50pmEven I’m getting tired of reading these stories. Maybe this subject should just go before the Supreme Court and let the chips fall as they may.
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momrules
Sep. 14, 2012 at 5:25pmHi Deavonreye………..You are an atheist but you are not a God hater which I believe the militant atheists are. You are also a reasonable person, something these people are not.
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ModerationIsBest
Sep. 15, 2012 at 2:00amThere’s a reason why the Supreme Court won’t hear a case questioning the Constitutionality of “Under God” in the pledge.
They know it’s unconstitutional but they can’t rule it that way because the Christians in the US would throw a huge fit because they can no longer force their religious crap on everyone else.
I’m sure however; if the pledge said “Under Allah” we would hear mindless dribble about “OMG THIS IS A CHRISTIAN NATION! it’s unconstitutional!”
All I hear about supposed religion(especially Christianity) is that it’s a “personal relationship”….but have a store go from saying Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays and suddenly that personal relationship turns into a war on Christmas.
I can’t turn on a political speech without hearing people talking about their “personal relationship” and anytime someone doesn’t mention God all I hear is “what, they didn’t mention God?!.”
Supposedly the relationship is so personal that everybody has to know how personal it is.
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DeavonReye
Sep. 16, 2012 at 9:19amMomrules, actually, I’m more of an agnostic. I haven’t found any compelling evidence of “a god” in my life, the earth, or universe, . . . but I am open to one being “out there”. Thanks for the comments.
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