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The Religious Wear Crucifixes & Stars of David — But Have You Seen Atheists’ Secular Pendant?

Sep. 27, 2012 7:50am Billy Hallowell

Atheists are looking for cohesion. Like their theistic counterparts, many secularists, particularly those in the activist community, are on a constant path to seek others who view the world through their lens of non-belief. As history has shown, one of the most common ways that a collective defines itself is through symbolism (we’ve examined atheists’ use of symbols in the past). While Christians often wear crosses and Jewish adherents embrace the Star of David, atheists have a symbol, too – the scarlet letter.

Religion News Service’s Kimberly Winston covers the atheist activist movement’s use of the red “A” — a literary symbol that may be familiar to readers who have studied Nathaniel Hawthorne’s “The Scarlet Letter.” While, in the book, the letter was meant to shame the main character, Hester Prynne, some non-believers are embracing it as a public sign of their non-theist views.

Photo Credit: Zazzle

The red letter “A” is, thus, being placed on jewelry designs so that atheists, like Christians, Jews and other faith adherents, can showcase their non-belief for the public at large.

The letter, which isn’t necessarily an official symbol of the atheist movement, originated in 2007, when the Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science implemented its “Out Campaign,” Winston reports. The purpose was to encourage non-believers to “come out” to those around them about their non-belief.

Amy Roth's pendant design (Photo Credit: Etsy)

While not officially sanctioned (after all, there’s no central leadership in the atheist activist community), the symbol continues to be one of the more prominent images embraced by the community at large. In fact, Amy Roth told Winston that the scarlet letter is “the most recognized symbol in our community right now.”

Roth, an atheist based in Los Angeles, incorporates the “A” into Surlyramics, the non-theistic jewelry line she launched. The artist brings these items to atheist conventions and meetings and sells them on the Internet as well.

One of Artist Rachelle Wirfs's designs (Photo Credit: Etsy)

Artist Rachelle Wirfs, too, has entered into the world of secular jewelry, creating her own pendant designs in burned and polished wood. She, too, sells her humanistic items on the Internet.

Just as Christians wear crucifixes and crosses, some atheists now embrace the scarlet “A” or other related pendants that let the public at large know about their lack of belief in a deity.

In her article, Winston highlights 26-year-old Danny Samuelson’s story. Samuelson, who resides in Orange County, California, wears a pendant with the “A” around his neck daily.

“I am telling people I am willing to discuss this, that this is how I am and you have to accept this,” he told Winston. “I am essentially othering myself to show that normal people with normal lives and problems are atheists.”

Earlier this month, Business Week tackled the issue of product markets for non-believers. While the focus was more general, some fascinating questions were asked, particularly when it comes to the growth of the atheist movement:

Is there a market for merchandise for the godless? Retailers who cater to evangelical Christians with items including books, apparel, gifts, and Bibles represent $4.63 billion annually, according to the Association for Christian Retail. Those who sell to nonbelievers tend to be small business owners who are true nonbelievers. While bumper stickers and T-shirts are obvious favorites, books about evolution, educational games for children, and science-themed jewelry also hold appeal, says Derek Colanduno, an Atlanta computer programmer who hosts a podcast for skeptics. [...]

The relative newness of the modern freethought movement, a collection of secular-minded organizations and nontheistic individuals, is partly responsible for the immaturity of the business market. It was Internet message boards, blogs, and podcasts that brought together younger skeptical and science-minded individuals to establish communities and attend regular conferences, says Colanduno. “Before the Internet, it was the old guard, the old white-haired men meeting in peoples’ basements,” he says.

As the secular movement grows, jewelry, bumper stickers, books, films and other related items will likely become increasingly popular. Previously, the market was spread out and not cohesive, but with the Internet bringing non-believers and entrepreneurs together, there’s potential for growth.

Just as Christians who seek community also tend to purchase faith-based products, secularists — as evidenced by Samuelson’s reasoning for wearing an atheist pendant — will also look to purchase items that reinforce their views.

In the end, the overall scenario is interesting as are the prospects, but, for now, the majority of jewelers and companies remain small businesses who are using conferences, web sites and social media to tout their products.

(H/T: Religion News Service)

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Comments (306)

usalover
Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:54am
So you worship and believe in the “A” see you have a religion and you didn’t even know it, it’s the alphabet, ha ha

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- seektruth1Z
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:31am
  I remember reading the Scarlett Letter back in high school. And to think this is the letter they chose. The letter A was a letter of shame. No decency anymore. Man, how times have changed.
  
  Report this comment
- TheArbiter
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:35am
  the spelling on these boards would improve immensely if more of the users worshipped the alphabet as well. also, the infidels who continue to fail at spelling shall be beheaded in the name of the Prophet, the letter “P”s be upon him.
  
  Report this comment
- 4truth2all
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:53am
  Yo The:
  
  A sentence starts with a T … please check my speling for me … thanks ahead.
  
  Report this comment
- Independent4233
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 10:01am
  I’ve known and read the words of many atheists, but only a scant few have taken on the rabid animosity as the ones today exhibit, and I know why.
  
  Like many other things, homosexual activists have taken over the atheist movement, but their opposition doesn’t have much to do with Christianity or a disbelief in a deity, and it has everything to do with the tenets of religion that espouse opposition to homosexuality. Mere atheists are not so rabidly overzealous in denouncing religion, because it poses no real problem for them. Mostly, the average atheist just quietly disbelieves.
  
  It is a rejection of homosexuality and other perversions that feed the fires of homosexual hate. Even if they believe in the possibility of a deity, they have no reservations about rejecting him, because their mental aberrations compel them to try to mainstream homosexuality at all costs.
  
  They see religion….but especially Christianity, since it is the largest religion in this country by far…..as their one great obstacle to their childish, immature fantasy of a “heaven on earth” where homosexuals are accepted into a rainbow utopia on an equal basis with normal people.
  
  What they’re too dense…or sick to know…is that even without religion mankind would still reject them just as vigorously, because disgust and revulsion against perversions of any kind are inculcated in all normal humans.
  
  Report this comment
- TheArbiter
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 10:07am
  4truth: YOU HAVE INSULTED THE PROPHET! JIHAD!
  
  Report this comment
- AvengerK
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 10:18am
  It’s that nifty Star Trek symbol that all the militant atheists who infest the Blaze were using as their avatar until they were told they were all using the same symbol to show their faith in their religion and they stopped using it. BRUCE_P..I’m talking to you champ.
  
  Report this comment
- johnjamison
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 10:26am
  American patriots need to start wearing the stars and bars as a sign of defiance in the face of government tyranny.
  
  Report this comment
- exposejesuits
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 11:16am
  The Vatican invented Islam, to kill Christians and non-Catholics “The Vatican wanted to create a messiah for the Arabs, someone they could raise up as a great leader, a man with charisma whom they could train, and eventually unite all the non-Catholic Arabs behind him, creating a mighty army that would ultimately capture Jerusalem for the pope. In the Vatican briefing, Cardinal Bea told us this story: http://www.redicecreations.com/specialreports/2006/04apr/catholicislam.html
  
  ‘A wealthy Arabian lady who was a faithful follower of the pope played a tremendous part in this drama. She was a widow named Khadijah. She gave her wealth to the church and retired to a convent, but was given an assignment. She was to find a brilliant young man who could be used by the Vatican to create a new religion and become the messiah for the children of Ishmael. Khadijah had a cousin named Waraquah,, who was also a very faithful Roman Catholic and the Vatican placed him in a critical role as Muhammad’s advisor. He had tremendous influence on Muhammad. While Muhammad was being prepared, he was told that his enemies were the Jews and that the only true Christians were Roman Catholic. He was taught that others calling themselves Christians were actually wicked impostors and should be destroyed. Many Muslims believe this.
- exposejesuits
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 11:17am
  How the Vatican created Islam. The astonishing story from an ex-Jesuit priest, Alberto Rivera, which was told to him by Cardinal Bea while he was at the Vatican.By Alberto Rivera
  2006 04 13
  
  http://www.redicecreations.com/specialreports/2006/04apr/catholicislam.html
  
  This information came from Alberto Rivera, former Jesuit priest after his conversion to Protestant Christianity. It is excerpted from “The Prophet,” published by Chick Publications, PO Box 662, Chino CA 91708. Since its publication, after several unsuccessful attempts on his life, he died suddenly from food poisoning. His testimony should not be silenced. Dr. Rivera speaks to us still …
  
  Report this comment
- 4truth2all
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 11:31am
  Yo The:
  
  No, I corrected YOU … a man of honor stands corrected he does not threaten.
  
  Report this comment
- BlazingPatriot
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 11:47am
  Yes indeed, these pea brains have a religion after all !!
  
  the God of atheism
  
  Report this comment
- TheArbiter
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 12:18pm
  truth: alphabetical jihad is no different than the other jihad: we’ll use any excuse to commit it! so, as i said…. JIHAD!
  
  Report this comment
- Prosecute_Constitutional_Treason_In_Washington
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 12:39pm
  The only eternal symbol and number one symbol of all time is the cross of Christ. When the stars and stripes are history, just like the Roman empire, when the islam crescent and star flag is crushed, the Cross of Christ will fly. Christians first loyalty is to the Kingdom of God. I invite every Christian to fly the Christian flag in their front yard. Exalt the Lord. Declare His Salvation. Praise His Name 24/365. Write His Praise upon your doorposts and gates and upon your flag pole. He is the Living Hope for Christians. All else will be destroyed. Praise be to our Lord and Saviour.
  
  Report this comment
- Prosecute_Constitutional_Treason_In_Washington
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 12:41pm
  There is only one eternal LIVING HOPE and sorry it’s not the stars and stripes. It’s the Cross of Christ.
  
  The only eternal symbol and number one symbol of all time is the cross of Christ. When the stars and stripes are history, just like the Roman empire, when the islam crescent and star flag is crushed, the Cross of Christ will fly. Christians first loyalty is to the Kingdom of God. I invite every Christian to fly the Christian flag in their front yard. Exalt the Lord. Declare His Salvation. Praise His Name 24/365. Write His Praise upon your doorposts and gates and upon your flag pole. He is the Living Hope for Christians. All else will be destroyed. Praise be to our Lord and Saviour.
  
  Report this comment
- Prosecute_Constitutional_Treason_In_Washington
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 12:44pm
  The war is WON. The Cross of Christ is the only eternal symbol of HOPE, a “Living HOPE”. No other symbol will stand in time. Sorry the stars and stripes will cease. The only living hope is the Cross of Christ. Christians should display the Christian flag on their yard. Fly the Cross of Christ to Exalt our Saviour, to praise His name, to honor His gift of Salvation.
  
  Report this comment
- 4truth2all
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 1:07pm
  Yo The:
  
  Whatever … blessings
  
  Report this comment
- davecorkery
  Posted on September 28, 2012 at 11:24am
  No worshipping involved. It’s fun to see the fear in people’s eyes, though. Pretty scary to find out that the assumptions you made as a child aren’t panning out, like “god wrote the bible. In english. In your denomination’s version”, Sorry, pal, your “god” didn’t write one word. Cause he can’t. Cause he’s imaginary.
  Don’t be such a chicken. Facts aren’t scary, like the legends of “lake of fire”, and other such nonsense.
  
  Report this comment
- by faith
  Posted on September 28, 2012 at 12:24pm
  EXPOSE
  
  Alberto Rivera is a proven fraud
  
  Catholics invented Islam? Really? Ever heard of the crusades?
  Your source “Chick Publication” is lying to you
  
  Report this comment
- by faith
  Posted on September 28, 2012 at 12:36pm
  http://www.thebibleistheotherside.org/lettersp5.htm
  http://www.masonicinfo.com/chick.htm
  
  Report this comment
- Pauln
  Posted on September 29, 2012 at 12:17pm
  And I thought they were just fans of Criss Angel… That logo certainly looks like it.
  
  Report this comment
- Stormy1948
  Posted on September 29, 2012 at 1:05pm
  @USALover
  also they finally do have someone to worship, themselves! It seems to me, if you don’t believe in God, why do they care so much that we do? Why go to all that trouble to make jewelry of an A. Or have any kind of religious symbols removed from your eyesight,(just in case it might zap you with lightening, I guess) because it offends them for some reason. Why go to all the trouble they cause for everyone else in the country who are believers? They do it becasue they can, that’s why. The scaredy cats that run the government are afraid to take a stand against them. The God given rights we have in this country protect them, and their free speech crap,(but only free speech for the A’s, God forbid if we have free speech).If this was a Muslim country, there wouldn’t be any kind of their protests. I would love to see this if they lived in Iran, Iraq, Somalia, Afghanistan,( you know where they kill you for just that reason alone)! Hey, that sounds like a real reality show! The Atheists vs The Muslims! A day there, and they wished that could come back to the USA and find a God loving people who just consider the source, and pity them.
  
  Report this comment
- Drewed1
  Posted on September 29, 2012 at 1:13pm
  Amorality, Anarchist, Affront to civilization, and pArt of the democrAt pArty and the obAmA regime! Truth, the final vestige of human sanity and that which separate civilization from morons and simplistic hunter gatherers! The Freedom From Religion movement wishes to take civilization to a time of stupidity and lies!
  
  Report this comment
- SlyFox123
  Posted on September 29, 2012 at 3:00pm
  You hit it on the head!. They do have something to believe in! Told,ya so!
  
  Report this comment
- brliso
  Posted on September 29, 2012 at 6:21pm
  When I first saw it I thought they were Alabama fans but now I see it just stands for A–hole!
  
  Report this comment
- BUDDY LITTLE
  Posted on September 29, 2012 at 6:43pm
  @INDENPENDENT4233, Absolutely Spot -on…
  
  Report this comment
- MassCitizen
  Posted on September 30, 2012 at 3:04pm
  Uhh,, A as in “Alpha”,, as in “The Alpha and the Omega”
  
  “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.”
  
  I am me and when I end all that I know shall end also!
  
  Report this comment
- davecorkery
  Posted on September 30, 2012 at 4:01pm
  Brilliant, intelligent response. I do believe, however, that you have forgotten to say “nonny nonny boo boo”. That would have clinched your erudite, cogent argument.
  
  Report this comment
vaman
Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:49am
This horrible story (yet another from the blaze) is meant to invoke the idea of atheism becoming a religion because a pendant is now available; comparing it in some way to crucifixes or other religious show pieces. Utterly ridiculous and a shabby attempt by the blaze to continue its “attack on christians” concept. Atheism is not a religion, is not attempting to be a religion, but if radical christians can spin the story to show a religious connection, then they can scream about the discrimination they are experiencing. Roll of the eyes. The blaze strikes again!

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- TheArbiter
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:56am
  let them try. it reinforces their desperation.
  
  Report this comment
- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:58am
  Amen brother!! =P Seriously… I agree with everything you posted. Couldn’t resist a little snarky humor though.
  
  Report this comment
- RRFlyer
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:34am
  IT’s not the blaze saying it’s a religion, it’s the commenters.
  
  Report this comment
- gategrl
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:34am
  I do not see anywhere in this article the attempt to “invoke the idea of atheism becoming a religion.” In the comments maybe but not in the article. You are reading something in there that is not even there. It is just an imformative article and I learned something from it.
  
  Report this comment
- Liberalismsamentaldisorder
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 10:57am
  It looks like a religion
  It acts like a religion
  It does the same things religions do
  It’s a religion.
  
  Report this comment
- WashingtonIsMyHero
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 11:27am
  Actually the Supreme Court gave atheism the status of a ‘religion’ more than 50 years ago. That’s how they get the clout to use our 1st amendment against us.
  
  Report this comment
- blackstone22
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 11:41am
  The Blaze rocks. you Vaman ,are whiney and annoying.
  Atheists are always crying victim…shut up.
  The article is talking about the merchandizing of atheism…. atheists making a buck selling their little atheist symbols. That should make you atheists happy. People who wear these symbols are making a statement that identify them as part of a larger group with the shared belief, of no belief. End of story.
  If you really don’t see that there is a growth in militant atheism targeting Christians in this country, i guess you didn’t watch the Democratic convention.
  Atheists are just this huge wet blanket that want to ruin everyone’s party.Believe what you want, but the majority of us in this country believe in God and we will not be silenced by atheistic facism.
  Quite the opposite, you tyrannical atheists inspire us, because even if we are lapsed Christians, we sure don’t want to be grouped with you losers.
  
  Report this comment
- billrow
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 2:33pm
  Just like ancients worshipped the sun because they didn’t understand it, people worship god because they don’t understand infinity.
  
  Comtemplating the universe not having a beginning or an end either in distance or time is very difficult for most people, therefore god is there to fill in the gaps of human comprehension.
  
  That being said, I don’t care what religion you are as long as you keep it out of my face and that includes Atheism which has been taken over by some rabid a-holes who are bent on ******* on everyone elses parade. I happen to like Christmas, I also think the 10 commandments are a pretty good idea, and what does it hurt to have a kid pray to something in school? Seriously, Athiests need to get over themselves and learn to live and let live.
  
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- I Luv America
  Posted on September 29, 2012 at 4:27pm
  I’m sorry, but I live near a Church of Atheism. If Atheism is not a religion, why the church? I know Atheists are fond of copying what other religions are doing, such as the Christian fish symbol with feet and “Darwin” written in the center.
  
  Every time I pass that church, I wonder what do they do in there. Do they just preach the word of whatever or whoever they believe created them and the universe or do they preach hatred toward God and religion in general? Perhaps one day, when I gather enough courage, I will actually attend one of their services to find out.
  
  Report this comment
kickagrandma
Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:43am
FORGOT: On the subject of “Where’s the evidence?”

OPEN YOUR EYES.
BREATHE.
TOUCH.
CRY.
FEEL LOVE, EMOTIONS.
OPEN YOUR EYES.

But, I repeat myself.

You are still alive, aren’t you? There’s your evidence.

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- stumpy68
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:51am
  Atheism is just another false religion
  designed to deceive the gullible and week minded away from the truth.
  
  Report this comment
- TheArbiter
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:57am
  @ stumpy: I’m always week-minded. today is thursday, FYI. thank my week mindedness.
  
  Report this comment
- Lesbian Packing Hollow Points
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:59am
  @ Kick A Grandma:
  (Lovely screenname, BTW)
  Emotion is the antithesis of evidence. Thank you for playing, though.
  
  @ Stumpy 68:
  As opposed to all of the other false religions designed to deceive the gullible and week minded away from the truth? False religions like any of the One True Religions™®© of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc.
  
  Report this comment
- God_Is_Not
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:07am
  No one is asking for evidence of existence. If those are the reasons you believe in theism then your belief is baseless. Theism requires faith, and faith alone.
  
  Report this comment
- djpeyton21
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:42am
  God is not- Blind faith in my opinion is admirable but potentially harmful. Many theists have turned from the faith for just that reason. And many theists have been criticized for just that reason. We really can’t win much with you atheists really…. But anyway, it’s important to as you say have a base. A foundation. I have faith in Christ but its not baseless. He, actually exists. There are numerous historical sources that claim that He existed and frankly I find it astounding that there are some 24,000 New Testament manuscripts that were all written within the 1st century. I know there is more than one argument of evidence for faith in God but I’m not gonna get into it unless someone is actually interested in learning more about God’s place in our lives.
  
  Report this comment
- momrules
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 10:13am
  Good Morning Kick………What a glorious day God has given us. I am so happy that I can share this day with our Lord, that I can breathe the air He created and walk on the earth and grass He provided.
  I give thanks to Him for all things as I know you do.
  
  What a blessing to believe in Him, to have faith in Him and to know that one day I will live with Him in His heavens.
  
  May God bless you this day Kick. The slings and arrows will be thrown by those who choose to put their faith in themselves instead of their Creator but they will always miss their mark.
  
  Report this comment
BasketFullOfPuppies
Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:39am
I think that some of them are about to see the error of their ways… very soon.

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- TheArbiter
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:55am
  ah, yes, another apocalypse hoper. your kind have thought the end was nigh since the beginning. good luck!
  
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- The_Cabrito_Goat
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 11:05pm
  cute how testy atheists get. It’s like a red alarm goes off everytime a thread like this shows up, and suddenly 50% of the comments are hate speech.
  
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- TheArbiter
  Posted on September 28, 2012 at 2:37pm
  hate speech? what’s that all about?
  
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Delores at CH WV
Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:39am
A = Aggressor in life; Absolute from the afterlife

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Dismayed Veteran
Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:36am
Soon there will be atheist churchs were they can gather and deny God. Oh wait, that is Congress.

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- Marine25
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 10:24am
  Congress today is far more religious than either the Second Continental Congress or the Constitutional Convention, and those were the founding fathers. 533 out of 535 members of Congress have decared a religious affiliation. When has Congress denied any god? Sounds to me like your problem is with our founders, they purposefully left god out of it. Modern Congress should follow their lead.
  
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- Dismayed Veteran
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 10:56am
  Marine 25
  
  My posting was sarcasm. Periodically, I try my hand at humor. Guess I didn’t make it this time.
  
  Report this comment
Amy
Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:32am
Evidence is a personal experience. If these unbelievers are atheistic in their beliefs — they’ve had no personal spiritual experiences. They believe in their own thoughts.

My advice to them: Don’t believe everything you think… you’re thinking is flawed because your godliness is currently absent. Your final thought will be your best.

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- paperpushermj
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:43am
  Interesting
  
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70S_KIDS_FIGHTING_SOCIALISM
Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:29am
They are just proving that they should be considered a religion under the law by acting like a religion. Also proving their NEED or empty space by acting like a religion. As CS Lewis stated there are many religions most are fairy tails but one is true and the greatest good to mankind.

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- jal974
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:38am
  Isn’t the A the symbol of anarchy ?
  
  Report this comment
- TheLeftMadeMeRight
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:57am
  The people I know that claim to be atheists seem to do it to justify their sins. I personally think atheists are jealous. They see others that have something that is precious to them and they can’t figure it out or obtain it for themselves; peace. How can you be offended because I believe in something you can’t identify with? So to make yourself feel better you strike out at me? How completely childish.
  
  And “A” was the Scarlet Letter for Adultery, also a sin!
  
  Report this comment
ChrisDiamond
Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:21am
I can understand the use of such ‘markers’ or items that proclaim your disbelief in the mysticism of religion, but I don’t think it’s something that will seriously catch on in the atheist community. Still, I find it odd that so many stories here on the Blaze focus on atheists and their evil efforts to stop religion or religious expression. Obviously an atheist teen trying to get a cross of their school grounds is of much greater importance than the lack of a Congressional investigation into the economic collapse (or the deserved prosecutions), a lack of Congressional response to even try and quell QE3, or anything else newsworthy. I believe many of you would agree that faith and religion are personal matters. You are free to discuss them and proclaim them if you choose, but they are personal matters, and your personal matters are hardly consequential to the grand scheme of things the Blaze probably ought to be reporting. But the Blaze is as more an anti-atheism site than it is anything else.

I still have not received an answer to a question I’ve posted here on other topics: if you are a bible-believing Christian, then why do you believe Israel will not survive without OUR blood and treasure? Do you trust your God at all? He made a promise to Israel, didn’t He? Do you not believe His promise, or do you believe Him keeping that promise is wholly contingent upon our unwaivering support of Israel? It makes no sense to me, and I’d appreciate one of you explaining this.

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- 13th Imam
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:48am
  We have been asking the hard questions since the Socialist Democrat was elected by the truly stupid. And since this moron can spend Our Treasure on his crony union buds, and continue to send Our Treasure to his Muslim brotherhood ally’s, we can ask that question also. And he has stolen Our children’s Treasure, our Grandchildren’s Treasure without their consent, done NOTHING about the 16 % real unemployment, doubled the foodstamp roles, devalued our currency, and fomented Race divisions, why don’t you ax him and his DEMOCRAT Party?
  
  Report this comment
- two4america
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:58am
  @Chris… Maybe if you repent and pray, you will receive the answer to your questions “…if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved….”
  
  Report this comment
- 4truth2all
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:00am
  Yo Chris:
  
  True God fearing believers understand the omnipotence of God and that He does not need our help to accomplish his good will. We also recongize the Israelies as friends and Gods chosen people through whom Jesus came.Thus, we would have a desire to stick with our friends and in the process and more importantly be obedient to God. In doing so God says He would bless those that do this. So, it’s a no brainer. You now have your answer for whatever it’s worth.
  
  Report this comment
- QuincySmith
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:03am
  Chris;
  
  “I still have not received an answer to a question I’ve posted here on other topics: if you are a bible-believing Christian, then why do you believe Israel will not survive without OUR blood and treasure?” ~~~ Why must Israel’s survival exclude OUR blood and treasure, to make you happy? I don’t recall anywhere reading that Israel must survive without assistance.
  
  Report this comment
- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:04am
  @13th_Imam:
  “We have been asking the hard questions since the Socialist Democrat was elected by the truly stupid. And since this moron can spend Our Treasure on his crony union buds, and continue to send Our Treasure to his Muslim brotherhood ally’s, we can ask that question also. And he has stolen Our children’s Treasure, our Grandchildren’s Treasure without their consent, done NOTHING about the 16 % real unemployment, doubled the foodstamp roles, devalued our currency, and fomented Race divisions, why don’t you ax him and his DEMOCRAT Party?”
  
  First, you didn’t answer my question.
  
  Second, if you believe what you’re talking about goes no farther back than Obama, you might want to read some more history.
  
  Third, if you meant to imply that I am a democrat or somehow support Obama, you couldn’t be more wrong.
  
  Fourth, it is altogether possible I misunderstood what you meant, so if I did, please accept my preemptive apology. I just want clarification.
  
  Now, can you tell me why Christians in America believe that if the US does not stand with Israel at whatever cost in lives and treasure, that Israel will fall, when the Bible is full of Jehovah’s promises to the Hebrews? Do you believe in God’s promises to Israel or not? If you do, then you should believe in them whether or not we send the Israelis $billions and sacrifice our men, women and children in her defense, right? Is God mightier than the US, or is He only powerful and true to His promise if we
  
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- GodHatesFigs
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:05am
  Yeah, Chris. You just have to believe, and then you’ll believe.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:11am
  @4Truth2All
  
  “Yo Chris:
  
  True God fearing believers understand the omnipotence of God and that He does not need our help to accomplish his good will. We also recongize the Israelies as friends and Gods chosen people through whom Jesus came.Thus, we would have a desire to stick with our friends and in the process and more importantly be obedient to God. In doing so God says He would bless those that do this. So, it’s a no brainer. You now have your answer for whatever it’s worth.”
  
  Well, which is it? Can you not believe in God’s promises without the unrelenting support to Israel in blood & treasure? You didn’t really answer the question. GB makes it out like our commitment to Israel is the most important thing, which I scoff at, knowing the promises God made to Israel. Essentially, it’s saying that US support for Israel is more important than God’s promises to her. What an arrogant position.
  
  As I recall, God said, “Pray for the peace of my people,” not “give them money & the lives of your children, grandchildren & great grandchildren to Israel’s defense.” So if you want to be Obedient to God, then I’d suggest following, “Thou Shalt not kill,” even in the name of Israel. I’d suggest praying for the peace of Israel, as opposed to supporting the creation and maintenance of a powerful military in Israel for the purposes of war… which is the opposite of peace. As an atheist, deciding to speak out against our money and military support for Israel seems
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:14am
  @Quincy Smith
  
  “Why must Israel’s survival exclude OUR blood and treasure, to make you happy? I don’t recall anywhere reading that Israel must survive without assistance.”
  
  No, but I recall reading that “Grace is sufficient,” and reading that God said, “You will be My people, and I will be yuor God.” So just because it isn’t written that their survival excludes the expense of blood and treasure on our part, that does not undo the promises God made to Israel in the Bible, without mention of other nations (except that they would ALL rise against Israel and He would protect them). So please… try again.
  
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- TheArbiter
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:23am
  I see your question remains essentially unanswered. I suspect it will remain this way.
  
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- djpeyton21
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:24am
  Chris- As a Bible believing Christian, I think it’s important to go to the Buble itself for the source of your answer. When you look in the Bible, how did God usually make His decrees? Through prophets. Through whom did He dish out justice to the wicked nations surrounding Israel? Either through Israel itself or through other wicked nations. How did God deal justice to wicked Israel? Through other nations. There are actually few occurrences of God using miracles for His purposes. The rest of His plan is carried out through human agents. Again, if you dig into the Bible, you’ll find numerous prophecies about Israel (and other nations) and her place in God’s plan. God said that He would punish Israel for her wickedness and He did. He also said He’d keep them safe after dispersing them. The Jews are still here today indicating that God has kept His promise. I could provide you with websites and/or Bible passages if you want but I’d ask that you give me some time to respond if you choose the latter.
  
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- Conservative Atheist
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:24am
  Yo Chris bro, you are trying to implement waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much intelligence and common sense around here. I have gone round and round with these bible thumping morons to no avail. Save your key strokes for people that might actually listen….
  
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- 13th Imam
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:27am
  You asked three questions. none of which mean anything.. You phrase them in the manner of DEMOCRATS, as demeaning the person you question. And America has stood with the British, Poles French, and many other nations and religions, but when a religion and it’s adherents declare war on us, do we surrender?
  
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- QuincySmith
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:52am
  “No, but I recall reading that “Grace is sufficient,” and reading that God said, “You will be My people, and I will be yuor [sic] God.” So just because it isn’t written that their survival excludes the expense of blood and treasure on our part, that does not undo the promises God made to Israel in the Bible, without mention of other nations (except that they would ALL rise against Israel and He would protect them). So please… try again.” ~~~ I’ll try again for your benefit, not because what I said before is wrong: Firstly, His grace references individuals not nations. Secondly, only you seem to limit God’s methods and abilities. He may use any avenue open to him, and create new avenues when they do not exist. What do you expect? Whatever it is, I’m sure you’ll be disappointed.
  
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- 4truth2all
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 10:06am
  Yo Chris:
  I did answer your question as simple as possible.( it’s both) Not sure what you refuse to see.
  Yes we are called to pray for the “peace of Jerusalem” … know why ??? … because there will be NO “permanet” peace until the return of Christ .. so, in effect we are praying for the return of Christ. He will end this foolishness!
  There is a BIG difference between kill and murder and you seem to have them mixed up.
  
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- 4truth2all
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 10:12am
  Yo Conservative:
  
  Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to go! You AGAIN resort to insults … stripes of a Zebra you are…
  
  I DID answer his question … sorry it does not suit YOU!
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 10:39am
  @Conservative Atheist and The Arbiter, thank you.
  
  @Quincy, If you want to argue the semantics of grace, be my guest. Do American Christians not promote that standing with Israel courts the favor of God for our nation? Is America not supposedly blessed by God’s grace? Grace can and does apply to nations. Moreover, it makes no sense for me to limit an entity that I do not believe exists.
  
  @13thImam
  Not to be rude, but you still have not answered any of my original questions.
  
  I’m mobile right now, so my apologies for not addressing others. I know one person mentioned God using human agents to do His bidding, but He also destroyed Sodomy and Ghommorah on His own, and dealt harshly with Pharoah through miracles… So why use the US to fulfill His promise to Israel? Makes no sense. “I’m all powerful, but I will still use flawed humans to destroy Israel’s enemies by commanding them to break my laws to do so.”
  
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- djpeyton21
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 11:01am
  Hi Chris. That would’ve been me ^_^ And why would God not take drastic action like He did with Sodom and Gomorrah and Egypt? Do you remember how those stories go? Sodom and Gomorrah are wiped out. Egypt had a slew of plagues, lost their firstborns, lost their slaves, lost their Pharaoh underneath a wall of water, and all because they were against God’s people. The Bible explains that the next time such a drastic event will occur will be at the end of the world when Christ makes His return. Again, I refer you to the other 75-80% of the Bible that holds no miracle working: God works through human agents during those in-between periods of God not making a direct appearance of supernatural means. In the meantime, we are meant to be God’s hands and feet. Therefore, WE are the means through which God will protect His people and WE are the means through which He will carry out His will.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 11:23am
  @DJPeyton20
  
  “God works through human agents during those in-between periods of God not making a direct appearance of supernatural means. In the meantime, we are meant to be God’s hands and feet. Therefore, WE are the means through which God will protect His people and WE are the means through which He will carry out His will”
  
  Yes, as He did with King David by commanding David to do things like go into towns and villages and kill very living thing, man, woman, child and beast. David, and adultering murderer was called “the friend of God,” and was used by God to murder hundreds and thousands of people. In fact, David’s killing was so prolific as to deny him the call to create God’s temple… his hands were too bloody. Hmm… So David was good enough to go about and do all of God’s dirty work for him, but not good enough to build His temple…? If I say that’s hypocritical, the response is, “God works in mysterious ways,” or, “God’s ways are not our ways.” Isn’t that convenient? Then you don’t have to morally justify this murder for Him. How many did He kill with the deluge?
  
  Interestingly enough, Shakyamuni Buddha made an interesting observation about Gods of the world (including Jehovah and Allah). He said (paraphrasing) that a Buddha was superior to these Gods because these earth Gods were subject to the basest of human emotions, like anger and jealousy that sparked incomprehensible violence. Now I’m no Buddhist, but that’s an astute observation if
  
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- djpeyton21
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 11:39am
  Yes and I see because you cannot handle the answer I gave you, you deflect it with another “problem”. I think someone else mentioned elsewhere that you make the mistake of confusing the orders of “kill” and “murder”. Murder is the unsanctioned killing of innocent blood. Killing is sanctioned to destroy the wicked so that they won’t murder. All of the enemies of Israel were just that: enemies. And they had been hammering Israel for centuries. Yes David made mistakes. That is a key point in the Bible. It always points out man’s mistakes. Except one: Christ. Because He made no mistakes. Because He was God in Flesh. Going back to David, or to God’s human instruments in general: God always uses the broken to fulfill His purposes. That is another recurring theme. Yes David’s hands were bloody and unfit to build God’s Holy Temple, but note it was David’s seed who did fulfill that wish. And it was David’s house that held the Christ in it as well. As for Buddhism, they also make good reference to pain being an illusion one must transcend through your many reincarnations so yes, they certainly contain valid merit on Christianity and God (sarcasm mine).
  
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- djpeyton21
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 11:41am
  And yes the Buddha’s statement is significant in that earth gods (humans) are stuck in their ways. Thank God that He is above that.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 11:59am
  @DJPeyton
  “Yes and I see because you cannot handle the answer I gave you, you deflect it with another “problem”.”
  
  You haven’t really provided me an answer. ASnd I didn’t deflect… It is indeed a problem, relative to the original question I asked; the hypocrisy in the notion that Israel will not stand without US aid because it spits in the face of the belief in God’s promises. Either your believe in them, or you don’t. Who are we to put conditions on God’s promises?
  
  “Murder is the unsanctioned killing of innocent blood. Killing is sanctioned to destroy the wicked so that they won’t murder. All of the enemies of Israel were just that: enemies.”
  
  And if I went into court and claimed (and truly believed) God told me to kill someone you all would laugh, scorn and denounce me because killing and murder are morally reprehensible, as is your excusing it on God’s behalf. Seriously? It’s killing when God orders it, and murder any other time? C’Mon… That’s a lil convernient, dontcha think?
  
  “Going back to David, or to God’s human instruments in general: God always uses the broken to fulfill His purposes. That is another recurring theme.”
  
  You’re forgetting Job. Job was whole, wealthy and had an amazing life. God let him be destroyed and tortured for His own glory. Sicko.
  
  “And yes the Buddha’s statement is significant in that earth gods (humans) are stuck in their ways. Thank God that He is above that.”
  
  How is He above it? Jehovah is man-
  
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- 4truth2all
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 12:01pm
  Yo Chris:
  
  You have received good answers from DJPENTON21 … it would appear at this point that you seek to argue and not to understand … I’ll give you the greatest example … Christ … the evil of men was used to accomplish the good of God, God allowed that evil. Men are also used of God in the opposite … we seek to be obedient to His will in/for our lives whatever that might be … Christ again is the greatest example of this also, doing the will of the Father understanding the reward, purpose and eternal plan.
  Ever read in Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 ” There is a time” .. I suggest you take moment and read it … good day
  
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- djpeyton21
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 12:28pm
  Chris- I have provided you with answers. They just don’t fit in with your worldview of hypocrisy. God’s promise to Israel is being fulfilled through His human agents. You don’t seem to be able to reconcile that thought in your “contradictory” worldview theory. Please note that David was at war with these opposing nations. Killing happens in war. Whether it’s God-decreed or not. You miss the point of Job. Firstly, God was showing off Job to Satan. He wanted to show him how faithful Job is. This is illustrated throughout. Job only wanted to ask God why these terrible things happened. So God questioned Job in return. Questions Job couldn’t answer because he didn’t have the answers. That’s the point He wanted to make. That He has the answers and despite whatever hardships one goes through, know that God has the answers and can free you from them. Which He did. Read the last part of Job. It has a happy ending. And by all means, take man’s word over God’s. Because man is always faithful….
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 12:37pm
  4Truth2All:
  “You have received good answers from DJPENTON21 … it would appear at this point that you seek to argue and not to understand …”
  Actually, I haven’t received a real answer to my question from anyone. I’ve received explanations as to how you can still believe God’s promises are sufficient while still claiming that Israel cannot stand without our unrelenting commitment of blood and treasure. Not quite the same thing because it’s hypocrticial, or paradoxical.
  
  “I’ll give you the greatest example … Christ … the evil of men was used to accomplish the good of God, God allowed that evil.”
  Correction – God CREATED evil. He created all things, and as you all claim, He is omniscient, so He must have known Lucifer would turn, tempt Adam and Eve and damn us all. He knew He would kill missions with the flood, and place the hope of salvation in an inconspicuous place full of largely illiterate people, and mandate that the only way to salvation was through this ‘truth’ from these people. Brilliant.
  
  “Men are also used of God in the opposite … we seek to be obedient to His will in/for our lives whatever that might be … Christ again is the greatest example of this also, doing the will of the Father understanding the reward, purpose and eternal plan.”
  Right, and the priests and leaders know this, and have convinced you all to trade this life for a possible… afterlife to obtain and maintain your obedience? Brilliant control scheme, no?
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 12:48pm
  @DJPeyton
  I’ve read the book of Job, up, down, front, back, side to side in 3 different languages. I understand the point that the Hebrews were trying to make with the book of Job: no matter what comes, if you are faithful to God, you will have victory… or something like that.
  
  As I posted to 4Truth, I don’t really see the responses as answers. You say you believe in God’s promises and believe that He is keeping them through His human agents in America…? Youthen use the Bible to illustrate how God used David in the same way, and we discussed Sodom and Gommorah, pharoah… I’m tracking the conversation. But God also says that all nations will turn on Israel in the end. Why will we be an exception to this? If we are, then God is made a liar, no? All nations means all nations, right? Still, the point is, according to your answer, is that God being God, all-knowing, all-powerful etc still needs human beings to do His work…? Riiight… and as you said, man is always faithful. Well, if we’re being commanded by and obedient to God, then of course we are faithful. It’s only other times that we aren’t. Is that right?
  
  In the end, the final Christian argument revolves solely on faith, and so God’s inability to be proven is irrelevant. In any and every other area of your lives, you depend on logic, reason and science, but in the realm of mysticism, you bow down to a book full of ghastly murder, paradox, immorality, and fairy tales. It boggles the mind.
  
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- djpeyton21
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 1:14pm
  I could talk about your fairy tale of how the universe (something) was created by nothing, which defies the second law of thermodynamics. By all natural means, we shouldn’t exist. I ask you, how did God provide for our salvation? Through Jesus, who was fully human as well as fully divine. Yes God works through humans. To say He can’t is to say that He is impotent not omnipotent. I say this and listen close. God does not need us. He did not need to create us. He was not lonely. The Father, Son, and Spirit were having a great time in eternity with each other. However, like I said, He does use human agents, not because He needs to, but because He includes us in His everlasting involvement in His plan and in our lives. And because you don’t take our responses as answers, you dismiss them as baseless at your whim. And you wonder why I have faith in God rather than having faith in humanity.
  
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- 4truth2all
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 1:22pm
  Yo Chris:
  
  I have learned that one CANNOT reason with an unreasonable person, and since you know it all that makes it impossible. Your understanding of scripture is rather appalling. It is always amazing to me how atheists think they “know” scripture better then spirit filled believers. I did answer your question but your pride blinds you to the hand in front of your face.
  Final… God did not create evil .. evil IS to go against the will of God … and until that was done it did not exist … did God know it would be as it was … of course !!! His good plan included redemption from the beginning as it glorifies HIM, His goodness and love … SORRY, YOU WILLFULLY WILL NOT ACKOWLEDGE THIS …. good day
  
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- djpeyton21
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 1:25pm
  And I might add Chris that your “holy book” of secular history is absolutely full of faith. Why, if we are just time+matter+chance, are we alive? And if we are alive, what is the point of living? You’re just gonna die eventually. And since nothing happens afterwards, I can’t be held accountable for immoral actions which aren’t really immoral because they’re based on subjective collective opinion. Why should I live Chris? For the sake of living? Why that? Living in this world is a pain and it’s nothing but trouble. A Godless universe is filled with nothing but misery and no hope. A hope in Christ gives me a hope for the future. And because I forgot to answer whether we are going to to be against Israel, please reference that verse. It’s my understanding that Ephraim, Israel (the people), and Judah (America, Britain, and Israel the nation respectively) will stumble together. And even if every single nation comes against Israel, God will keep His promise. Because that means that Christ’s return is nigh. And Christ will end all the violence and will be under the dominion of His Kingdom.
  
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- 4truth2all
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 1:29pm
  Yo Chris:
  
  NO … freedom is found in Christ … not bondage. I KNOW what both are like so I speak with knowledge of experience. Like I’ve been trying to tell you .. you could not be more wrong . I’m not trying to WIN an arguement … pride binds you to that. … good day … going riding
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 1:44pm
  4Truth2All –
  
  Ah, but you betray your own lack of knowledge of the Bible. In Isaiah 45 God tells Cyrus who He is and what He does. Specifically in verse 7 He says: ” I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.”
  
  If God created everything, as He alludes to in Isaiah 45, then it is indeed He who created evil, as he tells Cyrus. The angels, including Lucifer existed before the earth, and an omniscient God would have known that Lucifer would turn, that he would take a third of the angels with him, that he would tempt Adam and Eve, that they would fall from grace… You can’t get around this. You can’t say that God didn’t put those things in our humanity, and say you believe the Bible, or believe that God is the creator of ALL things, like He tells Cyrus in Isaiah. I’m sorry that this is inconvenient, or does not jibe with your view, but it’s right there for you in your book.
  
  DJPeyton21, I would be remiss to try and tell you what the purpose of your life is. How the hell do I know? I know you guys think I know everything (I don’t think that at all), but I’m afraid I can’t answer that question for you. I do believe that we get our time around the bright yellow spot, and when it’s over we die. We decompose and that’s it. We live on in the memories of those who’s lives we touched and the difference we made in society, for good or ill. But surely such a broad, unanswerable question can’t be the basis for
  
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- djpeyton21
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 2:08pm
  And it is your lack of an answer that compels me to turn to God not man for the answers to life’s hard questions. Because you have no answer except for meaninglessness. And yes by extension, God made evil. But He did not compel anyone to evil as you seem to be confused with. That was all part of His plan. Without the Fall, there can be no Cross. There can be no reconciliation between us and God. And yes you could argue that God could withhold it if He wishes but then He’d be violating free will which He doesn’t do. And you could argue that we could live in a utopian world with God, but note, the propensity for evil to occur was within Adam and Eve. If they could do evil, any one of their offspring would have the capacity for it as well, and because everyone can choose freely, one would eventually choose evil. And so we’re right back where we started. But the fact remains, the Fall started with Adam and did not end till Christ. Please also note that evil is contingent upon the existence of good. Evil, like cold, is the absence of good, or heat. They are not equal forces. Your moral reasoning is baseless without God just as your faith in humanity. Because everything is whimsical with humanity, in personal opinion and cultural opinion. It’s all temporal. Only God’s truths stand firm and provide objective moral reasoning.
  
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- 4truth2all
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 3:10pm
  Yo Chris:
  
  Nice try … you quote from the King James … which I believe certainly in this case, a bad translation. I have 7 different versions and none of the others state God having created evil. You MUST take ALL of scripture ( the whole council).
  If you read my post properly you would have read that I did/do understand the rebellion of angels and the disobedience of men having been known to God before their creation.
  Even if God did create evil ,angels or Adam of Eve did NOT have to choose it. Just as you turn from the truth they also did. In doing so you turn from the salvation also offered because of your own desire for evil. In ones pride, being unwilling to acknowledge their own sinfullness they instead call God evil for having created evil. When you pull back your hand from mercy, justice will take it’s place. Nobody in their right mind personally wants Gods justice.
  I do not have a perfect understanding of scripture and when you got some truth according to it… I’m good for it . What about your “view” there Chris.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 3:28pm
  @DJPeyton21
  “And it is your lack of an answer that compels me to turn to God not man for the answers to life’s hard questions.”
  And that is your choice, and I WHOLLY support your right to make it.
  “And yes by extension, God made evil.” – No, not by extension. He made it, period. Why attempt to soften that truth? He said it Himself.
  “But He did not compel anyone to evil as you seem to be confused with. That was all part of His plan. Without the Fall, there can be no Cross. There can be no reconciliation between us and God.”
  I’m sorry, how is creating a tempter, and sending him to tempt human beings He created with a (as you put it) natural tendency toward evil not compulsion to evil? In fact, God lamented that He created us at all, remember? And killed MILLIONS of humans in the flood. So if you believe in God, then this grand plan of the fall, the cross and reconciliation along with all the evil endured by humanity is by HIS doing. He created everything. You cannot get around that. He created us to be disobedient to Him, so Him blaming us asinine, as is His punishing us eternally for being how He created us to be.
  
  As I’ve stated, I believe either we do not have free will, or God is not omniscient.
  
  I like the good-evil, yin-yang reference.But claiming my moral resoning is baseless without God is a presumptive assertion on your part of your own beliefs and worldview, which has been your justification (?) for dismissing my arguments. Let’s keep it hones
  
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two4america
Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:20am
I didn’t know what to expect. After seeing it, “S” would have been more appropriate. Because actually there is “central leadership in the atheist activist community” – Satan. But now I know what this symbol stands for if I see it around “the public at large.” They are doing everything they can to attack God, and not only in the public sector, they won’t stop there, they want to take Him away from everyone. They’ve already taken Him away from the children in the schools, and are corrupting America’s youth. They won’t stop until they silence His name – Jesus Christ.

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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:29am
  If you believe in Satan, you cannot call yourself an atheist. Atheism means no belief in theology or deities, like this Satan guy you’re talking about. There is no correlation between Satanism and atheism. In fact, the two positions are diametrically opposed to one another, as Satanists believe in the mythical detiy Satan. Atheists do not believe in a deity at all. Please… either educate yourself, or do a better job masking your ignorance, mmmkay?
  
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- qpwillie
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:39am
  @ChrisDiamond
  One of satan’s most effective tools is to convince people that he doesn’t exist. Most of the people he has doing his work don’t believe he exists.
  
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- two4america
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:44am
  @Chris… – Thanks for your “education.” Can’t we all just “COEXIST”? That’s much more politically correct, maybe it even sounds “educated.” “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth…” But thanks for the insults, the truth must have hurt real bad for your response. I will pray for you.
  
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- 4truth2all
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:09am
  Yo Chris:
  
  You may not worship satan but he is the God of atheism … the deer in the forest sees YOU, though you perceive it not. The deers existence is not dependent apon your eyes.
  
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- djpeyton21
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:27am
  I suppose for us Christians, ‘A’ can stand for Abaddon or Apollyon. They’re both the same name essentially. And they’re both related to Satan so I guess it fits.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:30am
  @Two4America
  
  “Thanks for your “education.” Can’t we all just “COEXIST”? That’s much more politically correct, maybe it even sounds “educated.“ ”For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth…” But thanks for the insults, the truth must have hurt real bad for your response. I will pray for you.”
  
  You do not want coexistence. C’mon man. Be honest. Christians want everyone to be Christians, and want our laws, government, policies etc to reflect or be wholly ground in Christian faith and values. The Muslims want the same thing, but they are willing to destroy themselves and kill others to bring it about (as Christians were during the Crusades, but… I digress).
  
  My fight to be free of your religious chains is anathema to you. You offer to pray for me, and probably want the government to infringe on people’s rights and freedoms if the things they want to do with that freedom go expressly against your faith. Coexistence? Right.Difference is, I am wholly in support of your religious faith and practice for you and others like you, so long as they do not, in any way infringe on my natural rights. Do you hold the same to be true? If you’re wanting a ‘Christian’ government with ‘Christian laws’ then you can’t say you do. Do you want me taxed, or jailed for not paying taxes to fund Israel’s military or our killing around the globe? If you do, you support theft. Isn’t stealing wro
  
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- djpeyton21
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:45am
  Chris- Be honest….you want everyone to be atheists. Double standard?
  
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- djpeyton21
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:48am
  Chris-fault on my part. Was a bit hasty with the reply button and didn’t read the full way through your post. I retract that last statement….sort of. Some atheists want everyone to be atheists.
  
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- two4america
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 10:04am
  @Chris… – I was just kidding about the latest wave of being politically correct. Everyone has a right to their own beliefs in this country, and they can disagree. I believe Jesus saves. And if I am to truly love my neighbor, then I will pray for him or her, including for them to know Him. It is your choice, just like it is everyone’s, if you open the door and let Him in. But whether you insult me, or everyone else, Jesus still saves. And I will still pray for you.
  
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jschold
Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:20am
Maybe there ought to where a pendant with 666 on it.

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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:26am
  That would imply a belief in Satan, and atheists do not believe in a deity, period. Not God, not Satan, not Shiva, Allah or any of them (Zeus, etc). I love how you people so lavishly display your ignorance by making statements about atheists that assume some kind of devil worship.
  
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- paperpushermj
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:50am
  Chris it’s interesting that you chastise people of faith for mischaracterizing Atheists beliefs, while at the same time misrepresenting what the faith communitee believes as the foundation for your lack of belief..
  
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- HOOT_OWL
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:05am
  jschold
  Only the Satanist recognize him as their master
  
  Atheist don’t realize, by denouncing the One true living God
  ‘by default’ they worship him too.
  
  The old saying rings true.-
  Satans greatest trick is making people believe he doesn’t exist.
  
  That’s why narrow is the path that leads to salvation..
  
  Sorry to say…The same cant be said for damnation.
  
  There are MANY paths and they ALL lead to hell..
  
  Satan made a ‘special path‘ …Just for the Atheist.
  
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- TheArbiter
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:31am
  The rapidly oscillating circular logic on these boards is enough to make a man dizzy. “You don’t believe in my God, thus you worship my boogeyman!” Well, christians, you don’t believe in my atheism, thus you worship ignorance. I don’t think this is true, but we can dance both ways in this manner into eternity and accomplish nothing for either side.
  
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- djpeyton21
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:55am
  The arbiter- How very…negative of you. We believe in a double negative (a positive) therefore we worship a negative (an actual negative). I’m not quite understanding your math sir. On the other hand, atheism (NO belief in God, therefore a negative) would fit in quite nicely.
  
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- TheArbiter
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 10:13am
  dj: let’s break it down again:
  
  Some (and I stress SOME) christians here: “If you are an atheist, you don’t believe in God. Thus, you worship satan by default whether you know it or not.”
  
  Hypothetical idiotic atheist: “If you are a christian, you don’t believe in Science. Thus, you worship ignorance by default whether you know it or not”.
  
  Both sides are equally idiotic and do nothing to help their causes
  
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- djpeyton21
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 10:42am
  Ah thank you. That makes the equation much more cozy now. And of course I agree that a Christian saying out loud, “You believe in Satan,” isn’t exactly a comfortable phrase, nor do I believe it should be said out loud to anyone a Christian might be trying to save, but you have to admit, that at some point, spiritual warfare crosses our minds.
  
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- 4truth2all
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 11:40am
  Yo The:
  
  Christians do believe in science so that is a SELF imposed lie. We believe in the One that created though “the science” which is why we believe when done correctly and truthfully the science ALWAYS points to Him … the ceartor of “it”. …. follow … but as almost ALL atheists do, you must insult to prove your lie and make yourself feel good about it.
  Much of our modern day understandings come from God fearing men of faith , or do you also lie to yourself about this fact.
  
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- TheArbiter
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 12:24pm
  @ truth: I KNOW!!!! I was using the whole ignorance worship bit to illustrate how POINTLESS it is for christians to use their version of that logic against atheists BECAUSE it is both untrue and unfair. I certainly hope you believe and utilize science, just as I hope you don’t brand me a devil worshiper for not being chistian.
  
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- 4truth2all
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 4:27pm
  Yo The Arbitor:
  
  My apologies for not recongizing your point.
  
  I would not call an atheist a devil worshiper. However, as in Genesis when the serpent said to Eve … “Did God really say”… you still fall for this same lie by saying in agreement with him .. Did God really say … bringing into question the truth of Gods WORD which is written down (scripture). You allow this deception …
  This is why scripture says … ” you are either for or against Me”.
  good day
  
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- TheArbiter
  Posted on September 28, 2012 at 2:41pm
  @ truth: just as i “fall” for the lie as it exists in your religion, you fall for the deceptions depicted in the others for not seeing the ‘truth’ of their religions. This is not a winnable argument for either side, as has already been explained well into exhaustion.
  
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- 4truth2all
  Posted on September 28, 2012 at 6:06pm
  Yo The Arbiter;
  
  Disagree … there is only one truth
  There is no better deal then the one offered by Jesus …. there is no other man that was as Jesus
  the sky is blue it is not also green …
  as to … will the real God please stand up … no deception here and of this I am confident.
  
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Meng3
Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:18am
This makes as much sense as someone who doesn’t like football at all wearing a football jersey that says, “I don’t like any team”just so we’ll all know they don’t like football.

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- GodHatesFigs
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:02am
  Your analogy would make sense if jewelry was the uniform of religion. It’s not, so your analogy fails.
  
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lgccac
Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:17am
Each of us will have the opportunity to speak our minds and express our beliefs when we stand before Jesus some day.

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80mesh
Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:16am
please see below between the dots my rendition of an atheistic symbol

…….. ………

i guess once you commit to a symbol you can no longer be an atheist because you now believe in something …. quite the quandary i guess

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- GodHatesFigs
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:07am
  Atheists believe in all kind of things, just not gods.
  
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- djpeyton21
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:34am
  Well of course lol! Atheists have always had faith. Just not in God. Never God. Anything but if they can help it.
  
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HOOT_OWL
Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:15am
Will they be allowed to wear them to work..?

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- TheLeftMadeMeRight
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:00am
  I don’t know but as soon as one of them puts a big “A” up on anything, I am suing to have it removed because it offends me!
  
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captainbars
Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:15am
The Scarlet Letter!! Any judge who rules in their favor is breaking the 1st Amendment, because with this icon, it proves that atheism is a religion or faith-system. They are forcing their views and beliefs on the public, like the ACLU, the gay agenda.

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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:25am
  The pendant does not prove it is a religion or faith system. There is no grand book of Atheism. There are only books discussing why atheists do not believe in a supernatural, omniscient, omnipresent being.
  
  I do have a question for you though… We are told we have free will, but are also told that God knew everything about us before the beginning of the world (paraphrasing of course). But if God already knows what we will do, then do we have free will? If we have free will, then we can make choices that God could predict as possible, but not know for certain… So either we do not have free will, or God is not omniscient. Which is it?
  
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- paperpushermj
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:42am
  Chris
  You start off with a misconceived notion in the formulation of your logic trap. The belief of some that God knows what we will chose to do at any given moment is… well i can only speak for myself not in my Credo.
  But out of curiosity is this what you think is common in Religion?
  
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- QuincySmith
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:53am
  Chris;
  
  Let me ‘splain it this way. I have two dogs. Sally is a clever one, she comes to me while I’m working on my computer, ostensibly to get attention. When Winston sees/hears that I am lavishing attention on her, he gets off the couch and, being somewhat larger, pushes his way between us and I give him attention. Meanwhile, Sally leaves and takes his place on the couch. You see, I know what she is doing, I can predict it. Winston has his free will – if he knew what she was doing, he might not leave his favored spot, but alas, he does not; and he loses his place. I only hope you learn what is happening before you lose your favored position.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:24am
  @QuincySmith
  
  I appreciate the analogy, but that doesn’t quite cut it for me. I do love dogs though… They are awesome pets, faithful and loyal companions…
  
  @PaperpusherMJ
  
  As far as what I believe about most religious credos, there are a large contingent of believers who believe both in God’s omniscience and in us having free will. As I alluded to, God can predict behavior if we have free will, sure… but if he knows precisely what we will do, as omniscience implies, then there is no such thing as free will, because He already knows, which necessitates a timeline of actions and reactions that are, in effect, pre-determined no matter what we “choose”. There is no false logic trap. In your own credo, you allude to a belief that God does NOT, in fact, know what we are all going to do in any given moment (thank you for honesty), but this concept defies the Biblical claim of God’s omniscience. Either way, it is intellectually hypocritical, as you either believe the Bible, or you don’t, right? Most are against picking and choosing what you believe out of the Bible.
  
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- QuincySmith
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:53am
  “I appreciate the analogy, but that doesn’t quite cut it for me. I do love dogs though… They are awesome pets, faithful and loyal companions…” ~~~ I should have known better, even your avatar is skewed.
  
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- djpeyton21
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 10:03am
  Yes Chris I’ve noticed that as well. There are only 66 books in the Bible. And yet there are numerous others attempting to disprove it. I’ve never seen quite a concerted effort to oppose thin air. Why do atheists try so hard to prove that something doesn’t exist? I don’t see nearly as much time and effort being put in for books about how unicorns and fairies don’t exist. Or how Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny don’t exist. There must be something about this God fellow….
  
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- Marine25
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 10:48am
  @DJPeyton 21
  You said… “Why do atheists try so hard to prove that something doesn’t exist? I don‘t see nearly as much time and effort being put in for books about how unicorns and fairies don’t exist. Or how Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny don’t exist. There must be something about this God fellow….”
  
  Santa Claus and the easter bunny are myths that do not influence public policy, do not incite violence, terrorism, the bombing of medical clinics. The tooth fairy is a myth that does not inspire or promote hate. These are all myths that are effectively ignored by society when it comes to policy. Most gods, Ra, Zeus, Aphrodite, Thor, and a thousand others, have already gone the way of the easter bunny as their believers eventually recognized their implausibility and rejected their usefullness. There is something about these contemporary “god fellows” that troubles atheists; people still base actual policy and action on imaginary gods. If anyone suggested a law, or a war, or a bombing based on the belief in Santa Claus or the tooth fairy theists would be the first to condemn such a belief in a myth with zero evidence of existance. Yeah, there is something about this “god fellow’; much of our civilization has not achieved a high enough level of thinking to discard “him” to the heap of discredited myths, and until they do, the rest of us don’t have to accept the tooth fairy having a seat at the table of public discourse and policy.
  
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- djpeyton21
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 11:13am
  Marine- That’s my point exactly. All those ancient “gods” influenced public policy at the time too. The other ones, SC and TF are still social and cultural things we happily hold on to. Last I checked, Christ was for peace, not war. And why would we need a higher level of thinking to discard God? Especially if He is “just another myth to be discarded”? If He is just like the rest, why do we need higher thought processes? Maybe because He’s not like those other myths. Maybe because He’s beyond your or my thought processes. You can attempt to “discard” God like many have been trying for millennia. I wish you the best of luck. It’s a bit hard to move the unmoveable though. Hence the multitude of books denying God.
  
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- djpeyton21
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 11:17am
  And marine, why would theists speak against myths with no supporting evidence when they so “obviously” know that there is “obviously” no supporting evidence for their own God. Because there is plenty of supporting evidence for God’s existence as opposed to the myths you mentioned.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 11:47am
  @QuincySmith – Alas the ad hominems begin. Thank you for showing everyone here you have nothing left to contribute to the argument, and thus retreat behind a rather nasty insult. That was really Christian of you…
  
  @DJPeyton -”Last I checked, Christ was for peace, not war.”
  And yet Glenn and so many Christians advocate war ad nauseum and ad infinitum. Hmm…
  
  “Maybe because He’s not like those other myths.”
  
  Yes He is. You should really do more research on pre-Christian theology to examine the similarities.
  
  “Maybe because He’s beyond your or my thought processes. You can attempt to “discard” God like many have been trying for millennia. I wish you the best of luck. It’s a bit hard to move the unmoveable though. Hence the multitude of books denying God.”
  
  The only book I needed to prove to me there was no God was the Bible itself. I spent 22 months, 4-6 hours or more a day in study, another 4-6 hours or more a day in prayer, reading Bibles in English, ancient Greek and Hebrew, some over 1,000 years old and still came to the conclusion that this religion farce is all about control, not salvation.
  
  “And marine, why would theists speak against myths with no supporting evidence when they so “obviously” know that there is “obviously” no supporting evidence for their own God. Because there is plenty of supporting evidence for God’s existence as opposed to the myths you mentioned.”
  
  Please provide one piece of recognized scientific evid
  
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- djpeyton21
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 12:45pm
  Yes Chris, it is a mystery why Christians would want to fight back. It might have something to do with the people who want to kill us. Similarities do not make equivalence. The only religion that holds any significance for Christianity is Judaism from which it derives. And I’m sorry you wasted your precious time trying to disprove God. Maybe continuing a chat with me might resolve your issues. As for evidence, I could point out the 24,000 ancient NT manuscripts with a 99.5% accuracy of transcription rate. Or I could point out that John’s gospel makes a distinct reference to a pool area that was uncovered archaeologically. Or I could point out that the atheist Sir William Ramsay embarked on a trip to disprove the Bible and ended up validating Luke and Acts by discovering that Luke named, without error, 32 countries, 54 cities, and 9 islands. Sir Ramsay later converted to Christianity, overwhelmed by the biblical evidence. Because if Luke is accurate in his portrayal of history, what else might he be accurate about? Christ? I could talk about a great many evidences. But of course because you wasted your time studying the Bible, you know everything already. And because you know more than God, you must be right.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 1:04pm
  @DJPeyton
  
  Slow down, pussycat!!
  “Yes Chris, it is a mystery why Christians would want to fight back. It might have something to do with the people who want to kill us.”
  
  I wouldn’t raise a hand to you, much less try to kill you or any Christian. The initiation of violence is morally reprehensible to me, so justifying unChrist-like behavior for this reason is a non-sequitir. Have I attacked anyone, or attacked the belief/argument? I don’t know any of you personally, so I’ve tried to keep my ‘attacks’ on the arguments and statements, not the person. HUGE difference between the two, no?
  
  “Similarities do not make equivalence. The only religion that holds any significance for Christianity is Judaism from which it derives.”
  
  So all the Christ-like stories from 3,000BC (before Christianity) don’t make you raise an eyebrow? Do you have any idea how many Messiah’s were promoted before JC, and how astoundingly similar their stories are to His? C’mon…
  
  “Maybe continuing a chat with me might resolve your issues.”
  
  What issues? Are reason and logic “issues”?
  
  I’m surprised to see you try to use someone’s knowledge of Geography as ‘proof’. Wow: they knew the geography of their area! Beats American kids these days. But 24,000 texts, blah blah blah. Do you know how books are canonized? If they aren’t canonized…
  
  “…you know everything already. And because you know more than God, you must be right.”
  
  Sad to see you stoop to this level… as Jes
  
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- djpeyton21
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 1:40pm
  If you wish to use Jesus as an example of moral superiority please recognize that He stooped to our level. He became human to save us when He could have easily wiped us away. But then He wouldn’t be God. And using an “imaginary figure” (God in your head) to bolster your argument for His nonexistence does not help your case. I never said you personally were going to kill me. I’m speaking of actual violent people. And no your issue is not with logic. It is with your a priori assumption of God’s nonexistence that drives your thought process. And because of that, I figured you would scoff at just the historical evidence that validates the Bible. Did I mention they were all written within the 1st century? This means that with this many copies, there would be plenty of opportunities to cross reference and double check. If Christ didn’t exist, the authorities would’ve said so. But Jesus is recorded in history. If He died, His body should be in a tomb. But it wasn’t. http://creation.mobi/can-we-believe-the-gospels. This link is a legal case for the gospels. I’m not sure why I continue attempting to convince you because you’ve already made up your mind on the matter. So be it. http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.4955431/k.3C35/Archaeology_and_the_New_Testament.htm. These are extra biblical sources referring to Jesus.
  
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- djpeyton21
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 1:43pm
  And the fact is, Chris, the best that you can do is dismiss the evidence because you cannot say that there is no evidence. Because there is. In abundance. You have simply discarded them under your assumption that God cannot exist. You have decided that the only explanation is the atheistic one, therefore that is the only explanation.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 1:59pm
  @DJPeyton21
  Not once in anything that I have written here did I claim that Jesus the man did not exist. And beyond these 24,000 texts you mentioned there are others that also talk of a boy coming to India (some say Tibet) and studying their humanism. Still others say he did not die, and was stolen away, provided medical treatment and left with his wife Mary Magdalene and their children. You likely know of these stories and choose to dismiss them, as I choose to dismiss the stories of his death on the cross and his resurrection. Either way, we both have written texts to reference as a basis for our theories.
  
  I say that the story of God is a myth created by man, imposed on society by the few literati of the age to establish control and dominance over a largely ignorant populace (“how can they hear without a preacher,” which is important when the people cannot read) under the threat of eternal damnation and hell fire. The fear is inculcated in childhood, as kids are taken to church by their parents to hear that this God who loves them so much as to give up His own son to be tortured and murdered because THEY are bad, has a place of unspeakable torture to send them to to burn FOREVER if they don’t accept Christ, obey and get dunked in the water. Oh, and you need to give the church, er, I mean God 10% of your earnings because this all-powerful deity cannot feed people and house the homeless without your money. Religion is about control, sir… not salvation.
  
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- djpeyton21
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 2:17pm
  You’re right. Religion is about control. But I don’t believe in a religion. I believe in Christ. The Catholic Church pushed all the works-oriented doctrines which I have struggled to fight against. The reason I fought them was because the canonized gospels, which are of the ones included in the 24,000 that were written in the 1st Century, speak against Catholic doctrine numerous times. The other so called gospels were written in the 2nd to 4th centuries where the legends and stories tend to abound from because of their distance in time from the actual events. But I’m with Truth: I’m tired of speaking to a wall and wasting my phone battery and precious time trying to convince you. I’ll leave you on God’s hands. Which you reject. Sooo, I’ll keep you in my prayers as well. Because while God has His Han on you, you refuse to acknowledge Him. God bless and good day.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 4:16pm
  DJPeyton – I hope you realize something very important: I wish you no ill whatsoever. You have been responsive and engaged in the discussion. I appreciate that. I have tried to stay focused on the arguments expressed and my disagreement with them as opposed to make anything a personal attack. I hope I have been successful in that endeavor. Most people can’t disagree without resorting to ugliness, and that’s too bad. I’ve endured it here from a few in this discussion alone. So when you say, “But I’m with Truth,”… According to you, your beliefs, and yor worldview, not facts… you cannot call your truth absolute truth and retain any intellectual credibility. Sorry.
  “I’m tired of speaking to a wall…” Well, sir, I am not a wall. I am a sentient human being of respectable erudition who disagrees with you, and my disagreement with you is based on scriptural knowledge, logic, reason, philosophy, metaphysics and history, among other disciplines. I wouldn’t insult your intelligence or label you anything other than a fellow human being for disagreeing with me. I’m sad to see you resort to that though, and for no other real reason than my refusal to accept your ‘truth,’ or capitulate to your tireless efforts to convert me.
  
  Next to the fantasy and mythology, the only real thing wrong with Christianity is some of the Christians.
  
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- 4truth2all
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 4:49pm
  Yo Chris;
  
  I know you do not speak to me here … but a good judge has the wisdom to seperate out the lies from the truths. Evil always tries to confuse … lies and copycatting are two of the ways that this is done. “Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom” … in rejecting the Lord you also reject the decernment necessary for decifering the truth … you ensnare yourself … From where I am I can see the whole thing … but you picture yourself free, intangled in a snare.
  I speak the truth to you out of love, not judgement or condemnation… good day
  
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- djpeyton21
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:14pm
  Chris- You do not take it as truth regardless so naturally I would be wrong. When I say I side with a fellow believer in the truthfulness of the Scriptures and my God, that is what I mean. I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings by saying talking to you is like talking to a wall. Obviously a wall can’t come out with well reasoned, if not fallacious, claims about the Bible and God. I’m merely comparing you to a wall in the fact that you and your message do not change. Obviously, the comparison isn’t to be taken literally which might be why you have such a hard time understanding Scripture. I enjoy chatting but as the comparison with the wall represents, it doesn’t do me much good to talk to someone’s who is hard-set in their intellectual superiority over the Word of God. I’d just like to say that all of the issues you bring up, have been brought up before, answered, and will be brought up before because “what has been, will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.” (Ecclesiastes 1:9 NIV) I am not sorry for my faith in Christ, which I might add, I have done a great bit of research on myself. All the points you brought up, I have encountered in my walk, and are easily reconcilable. But I said it before, and I ll say it again, although gentler this time: I tire of pointless squabbling. Into His hands, I commend your spirit. God bless, sir
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on September 28, 2012 at 11:28am
  4Truth: If you were to attempt to separate lies from truth, you would find yourself disbeliving your Bible. In the real world, free of fairy tales, unicorns and middle earth, you cannot equate non-existence with existence. So to tell someone that something you cannot prove exists actually exists as TRUTH is dishonest, at least without a caveat like “I believe,” instead of with definitives. If you say I’m unable to discern the truth because I reject your God and don’t accept your truth, then it is you who are judgmental and closed-minded, and thereby unwilling to even attempt to discern real truth. And who are you to judge me, hmm? You take faith; I demand evidence. At least what I believe can be proven, repeatedly, using objective, respected and validated methods to reproduce the same results before calling the results ‘truth’. “Question with boldness…” becomes evil lies from an evil liar? Tsk tsk tsk…
  
  DJPeyton, I don’t take your truth as absolute truth because there is no evidence of God. And you didn’t hurt my feelings. I don’t get emotionally invested in these discussions, but I also don’t simply dismiss someone because they don’t agree with me and dare to hold their ground when they argue. Imagine how dull and unenlightening life might be if we simply shut out the people who dare disagree with us, but that philosophy and approach to life lends nicely to keeping otherwise intelligent people in a prison. If they won’t accept YOUR truth, then to hell wit
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on September 28, 2012 at 3:20pm
  Chris, I am enjoying reading your posts on this line of replies. I especially appreciate the way you deliver your arguments. Keep it up!
  
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- 4truth2all
  Posted on September 28, 2012 at 6:19pm
  Yo Chris:
  
  You say what you believe can be proven by reproducing …please, by all means reproduce the big bang. Come on Chris, seriously? Nothing you said in responce to me on a personal level or otherwise was correct and I have no desire to “correct” you.
  I am 4 truth … so I am always 4 truth, brutally so … but hey, you have impressed Devonreye ,,, and so you have your reward … good day
  
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- djpeyton21
  Posted on September 29, 2012 at 2:09am
  Chris- You have not in any substantial way proven that God doesn’t exist. As I said, your arguments have been washed, rinsed, and repeated countless times over. Your use of the Bible to attempt to “prove” God’s nonexistence are issues which Christian apologetics have already answered. Each time you’ve brought up an “issue”, I’ve answered. You didn’t stick on your first issue so you brought up another. And another. Why? Because you have unanswered questions that you yourself have not bothered to ask yourself. I have offered you lines of evidence and could offer you countless more but that would be pointless with you. You have already convinced yourself of the Bible’s fallaciousness so therefore, in your mind, it’s false. You have not offered any extra-biblical evidence to support your claims. I have. That is because “since the creation of the world, God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. (Romans 1:20 NIV) And as I said, I can continue to offer you evidence. However, it is pointless because you “do not take my truth as absolute truth because there is no evidence for God.” By your own admission, you dismiss my arguments based on prior assumptions. But as I’ve clearly shown, and can continue to, there is evidence. You’re just not willing to accept it because it doesn’t fit your worldview.
  
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- djpeyton21
  Posted on September 29, 2012 at 3:16am
  And I just read through again….you said that what you believe can be proven repeatedly. So you could measure the nonexistence of God for me and draw up a graph then could you? Repeatedly? You cannot measure divinity scientifically so that there is a highly false statement. Your belief is just as “religious” as mine. You are making a truth statement: “There is no God”, which necessitates proof just as much as my assertion that God does exist does. And since God cannot be measured, He cannot be proven. You can only use the evidence we have to support your argument, which you have failed to do. That is why faith is essential to Christianity. Faith is not blind. Do you have faith in your spouse? Your friend? Your child? Is your faith blind or is it based on your experiential knowledge of that person. That is what Christianity REALLY is. It is having that experiential knowledge of God, that personal relationship, that permits our faith.
  
  And you can do this objectively? Atheists, who already disbelieve in God, cannot, by that definition give an “objective” prognosis on God’s existence or nonexistence.
  
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single stack
Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:10am
I guess the irony of adopting a symbol of shame and debauchery to represent their beliefs is lost on them.

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- YourArgumentIsInvalid
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:15am
  @single stack
  
  As is the definition of irony on you. =)
  
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- paperpushermj
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:16am
  Not if they can make a $ at it.
  
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- QuincySmith
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:24am
  Did you notice Artist Rachelle Wirfs’s design? I guess she missed the irony of using the infinity symbol for a VERY finite belief system.
  
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- HOOT_OWL
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:40am
  QuincySmith
  I saw it and thought the same thing.
  
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Edohiguma
Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:08am
Many?

That’s simply not true. You’re falling for the old screaming minority pretending to speak for everyone. Most atheists really don’t care. Most atheists want to be left in peace. Those “activists” are like all other activists: they’re a very loud minority only out for power.

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- paperpushermj
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:55am
  Also like many iconoclast they like the attention it brings to them
  
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- AvengerK
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 10:29am
  actually EDO…not too long ago on the Blaze…all the militant atheists started using that nifty Star Trek symbol as their show of their faith in atheism. Until they started being mocked for it and all of a sudden…it disappeared. Ask Blaze poster “BRUCE_P” how many times I’ve asked him why he doesnt’ bring back that cute little Star Trek symbol he and his militant atheist buddies all of a sudden stopped using all at once. They won’t admit it..but they realised they were showing their faith together and behaving just like the people they mock.
  
  But let’s be honest EDO..we’ve tried it your way…the humanist way, the “no religion” way. We got Stalin’s Russia, Maoist China, Hitler’s Germany, Khmer Rouge and numerous other brutal regimes all of which are responsible for hundreds of millions of deaths and incarcerations between them. Heck…China still has gulags. And this wasnt’ from the dark ages like some Spanish Inquisition…this was all from the twentieth century onto to today..the supposed enlightened age.
  
  Do you believe we can improve on the already established humanist record I’ve illustrated to you?
  
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KINGRUDDY
Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:04am
Worship the earth, the sun, the big A, all the material objects you can find, have no faith or believe in miracles, and just exist. What a great way to live your life….also the A stands for Anarchy, which is exactly what the atheist are!!!
Wake up America!! These, heads in the sand mindless robots, who have no reason for living and existing, have altered our way of life way too long.
Time for Americans to wake up and stop the Big A BS going on in our sacred country.
And please let American’s Bless God for all the greatness he has afforded us!!!

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- Edohiguma
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:11am
  You people built the greatness yourselves, but hey, don’t let get facts into your way.
  
  Besides, which god? There are a couple of million active on this planet right now. So which one is the true one? That is all based on belief and not on fact. Whoops!
  
  By the way, thanks for saying I have no reason for living and existing. I really appreciate it you mindless religious drone. Oh… wait a second… Whoops!
  
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- paperpushermj
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:13am
  I prefer what it used to stand for ..A for.Adulterer
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:36am
  A for anarchy… Anarchy means ‘without rulers’, not the violent leftists you see in the specifically chosen news stories promoted to denounce anarchy. There are MANY anarchists who disavow the initiation of violence in all forms (except for self-defense), but advocate for the abolition of government through a philosophical and peaceful revolution… getting people to understand that government does not protect liberty, but acts, instead, as the facilitator of the theft of your money through inflation, wealth transfers, prohibitive regulations, cronyism, taxation… they kill for profit and protect the status quo. You who believe in a return to limited government, consider this… if we could not stop the rise of the state like we have it now under the Constitution, then how will we ever stop it? The answer is, we won’t. The government is the most valuable tool of tyrants and thieves. So please don’t disrespect anarchy when you obviously know nothing about it, or at least nothing more than good news sites like the Blaze want you to know. We are not a bunch of leftist radicals who want to destroy and hurt people… We are a bunch of freedom lovers who believe that the 310 million of us can make better decisions about how our lives and societies should run than can the 535 liars, thieves and murderers in the Congress can.
  
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- QuincySmith
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:41am
  Edohiguma;
  
  “Besides, which god? There are a couple of million active on this planet right now. So which one is the true one? That is all based on belief and not on fact….” ~~~ Your argument are a cogent as you FACTS. As an atheist you have no doubt investigated all ‘couple of million’ gods, so you can definitively assure us that NOT one is real. How long did it take you to identify, research, and finally disgorge your vile tripe? Yes, it requires faith to believe in God, something you obviously lack. Oh, and by the way, what proof do you have there is no God? How do you explain, not only this world we inhabit, but the billions of stars and planets. How did they come into being? Do you have an explanation? If so I would like to hear it; please provide EVIDENCE, not theory.
  
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- QuincySmith
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:56am
  Chris;
  
  “There are MANY anarchists who disavow the initiation of violence in all forms (except for self-defense)” ~~~ How do you initiate self-defense?
  
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- paperpushermj
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:05am
  Chris : how do roads get built, water to your home and who takes care of your children when your sick?
  
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- TheArbiter
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:38am
  so god afforded america’s greatness? he must really hate africans.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 12:13pm
  @PaperPusher MJ
  “Chris : how do roads get built, water to your home and who takes care of your children when your sick?”
  
  Let’s see… Road builders built the roads. Do you know of one single politician that was out there digging the paths, laying the necessary rebar, forming, re-bar, cement, finishing, asphalt etc? No, you don’t.
  
  The water to my home comes from the plumbing and piping built from my well to my home by the builder. Not one single politician was out there doing any of it.
  
  And I have never taken my sick kid to a politician for medical care. And neither have you.
  
  Holy crap, the statist mentality here is ASTOUNDING… and you are the ones that supposedly want LESS government, but cannot fathom how we ll could possibly exist without it. Wow.
  
  The truth is, it doesn’t matter how the roads would be built, how we would get water, or how sick people would be treated, and it would be a lie for me to try and tell you I know how all of it would happen. My point is that it doesn’t matter. It WOULD happen… it already happens without the government, despite your regrettable and incorrect crediting of government for it. But to do it the way government does it, they have to steal and then redistribute it to their buddies. This eliminates competition for their pals, drives prices up and sticks us with the neverending cost of their inefficiencies. But you just continue believing that your wonderful government makes all this possible.
  
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4truth2all
Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:02am
The comming New World Government will be happy to provide you with an identifing “mark”. Problem is you won’t be able to take it of come nighty night. This is just one more step closer. A little at a time, a little at a time …

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THXll38
Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:01am
To each their own.

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biohazard23
Posted on September 27, 2012 at 7:59am
Aren’t they just precious? Bless their hearts….

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Truth and Justice
Posted on September 27, 2012 at 7:59am
So the non-religious seem like there are creating a religon of their own. How interesting!!!

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- GA-TEApartymom
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:27am
  Just like Ann Coulter wrote about in “Godless”. I think it’s a great idea to be able to identify them though. Not so we can proselytize, but be a witness. What attracts most people to Jesus from the world is the peace that believers have in their life. Amen?
  
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- Tractorboy
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:02am
  Well said Ga-teaparty, glad to see atheist identifying themselves, we know they are religiously curious otherwise they won’t make the fuss they do, when atheists come to the conclusion that their bitterness and hate just doesn’t work in their lives, and the love of Jesus Christ is the way, how awsome will that be? God Bless
  
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- djpeyton21
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 10:23am
  Amen momma! Lol
  
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GeorgeWashingtonslept here
Posted on September 27, 2012 at 7:54am
They are free to worship “no one”…….and wear anything defending that logic……..This isn’t a big deal really…………..I sorta like knowing who doesn’t believe in anything……..that way I won’t friend them.

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- TheArbiter
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 9:44am
  really?
  
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- TheArbiter
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 11:06am
  you do know that jesus was willing to befriend ANYONE, right? shouldn’t you strive to be more christlike?
  
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- djpeyton21
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 11:26am
  Oho! Touchè arbiter! Yes let’s hold the Christians to their standard of Christ. It is indeed actually important. Now let’s see if I can make a good comeback….um well you should be more like non-God because that’s what you believe. Meh doesn’t quite hold the same sting. I guess it’s just easier poking at Christians.
  
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- TheArbiter
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 1:32pm
  @ DJ: I will poke at any and all who will use their beliefs to attack others. I have never attacked or ‘poked’ anybody ever on these boards without them first making some asinine comment and/or ad hominem attack on someone different from them. This guy george here obviously follows the whole ‘birds of a feather’ mentality… which is sad. I think there is plenty of room for atheists to be friends with christians and any other religious folks, as long as we don’t start hurling venom at one another anyway.
  
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- djpeyton21
  Posted on September 29, 2012 at 4:27pm
  Arbiter- My apologies. You’re right of course. Nonsense isn’t the answer. I’m just a slight bit frustrated at the way my faith has been eroded away in this country.
  
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kickagrandma
Posted on September 27, 2012 at 7:54am
cool~~~ The sign for adulterer,,,, Nice going, atheists. So typical of satan’s followers: can’t come up with anything new.

you who call yourselves atheists might want to be looking a little deeper into your decision not to follow or to believe in GOD. Time is running out for you, and eternity without HIM would be hell.

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- loriann12
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 7:58am
  I was thinking anarchy, but your interpretation is better.
  
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- starman70
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:04am
  I bet they never read, “The Scarlet Letter”. After all, traditional literature and the classics are no longer required reading in schools. They have been supplanted by Marx, Mao and liberal theory by far leftist teachers who have been schooled in the finest of America’s COMMUNIST universities.
  
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- Edohiguma
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:08am
  Nice going there, crusader. Thanks for throwing all of us atheists into the same pot. I guess all Christians are zealous crusaders out to dominate and coerce, eh? Oh wait, that’d be a generalization and those are STUPID.
  
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- poorrichard09
  Posted on September 27, 2012 at 8:29am
  “A” for small “a” antichrist.
  
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