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Atheists Lose First Amendment Legal Challenge to State’s ‘Year of the Bible’ Declaration

Oct. 2, 2012 3:30pm Billy Hallowell

FFRF Loses First Amendment Legal Challenge to PAs Year of the Bible Declaration

Photo Credit: AP

Atheists technically lost their legal battle, challenging Pennsylvania’s “year of the Bible” declaration. That said, there’s a light at the end of the non-theistic tunnel, as the judge, despite ruling against secularists, also chastised state politicians for pandering to the electorate.

In February, the foundation for the Freedom From Religion Foundation’s (FFRF) legal battle was set after the Pennsylvania House of Representatives unanimously passed a resolution (H.R. 535) declaring 2012 the “Year of the Bible.” Naturally, this riled non-believers, causing them to publicly protest what they saw as a discriminatory breach of the separation of church and state.

“This nation faces great challenges that will test it as it has never been tested before … and renewing our knowledge of and faith in God through Holy Scripture can strengthen us as a nation and a people,” a portion of the declaration read.

After months of jockeying back and forth between the two sides, U.S. District Judge Christopher Conner dismissed the case, siding with House Republicans who had motioned for the court to do so (the judge said he was bound by legislative immunity — a protection of lawmakers for actions they take within their respective duties).

While Conner dismissed the FFRF challenge, he also chastised the lawmakers, calling the resolution a “waste of legislative resources” and dismissing it as “exclusionary,” Philly.com reports.

“At worst, it is premeditated pandering designed to provide a reelection sound bite for use by members of the General Assembly,” the judge wrote. “At a time when the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania faces massive public policy challenges, these resources would be far better utilized in meaningful legislative efforts for the benefit all of the citizens of the Commonwealth, regardless of their religious beliefs.”

Photo Credit: AP

In the end, though, in a rare show for a court battle of this magnitude, both sides expressed delight with Conner’s decision.

“Praise the Lord. What we did was not novel or controversial,” explained Rep. Rick Saccone (R. Allegheny), one of the individuals named in the lawsuit. “It recognized the role of the Bible in history.”

Dan Barker, co-president of the FFRF, ironically echoed this sentiment (of, at the least, the overall agreement that the outcome was favorable).

“We like the decision even though we technically lost; we think it’s a good decision,” he said. ”We feel Rep. Saccone and others were abusing authority to promote their religion and using it to pander to the religious right.”

The judge’s decision comes after debate surrounding the proclamation intensified earlier this year. Atheists quickly responded to the proclamation with an anti-Bible ad invoking the theme of slavery, calling the Bible “barbaric.”

It appears the holy scandal has come to a close in Pennsylvania — at least for the time being.

(H/T: Philly.com)

–

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Comments (92)

jay1975
Posted on October 3, 2012 at 10:43am
So, where is this “God”? Didn’t he say that he would be back by now? Luke 9:27, Mark 9:1 and Matthew 16:28. Of course John isn’t on this list since that Gospel has nothing to do with the others and actually should be dismissed as completely fabricated (if you actually studied Bible history).

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- KENTUCKIANAPATRIOT
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 1:33pm
  OH GOODY!!! BIBLE “STUDY”–my FAVORITE study of ALL time!! Doggone it–I’m sure I missed you. I’m sure I have. Well, “where is God”? As in “Where is gravity? Atoms? TIME?” (Hint “Science” is slowly & quite inadvertently gaining knowledge as we speak–don’t hold your breath, they believe in millions–oops BILL>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>IONS–of years) If ONLY 2,300-2,400 Yrs ago thinkers had THOUGHT to read the Holy Scriptures (in all fairness, not all had access to anything HOLY.) Okay, let’s say the “Flat-Earth Society”–now LOOK at the time they could have saved! Job is the oldest text (so they tell me–I was NOT there, You would be right on that point.) JOB knew the Earth was an ORB . There are many ways to have saved a lot of THINKERS’ time.Is. 40:22, pretty anti FLAT. And we see time & ‘space’ have MASS. Or at least if one is truly a STUDENT, it is there. Rejection of TRUTH is vastly different than the mere dismissal of it. In an age where people are oblivious to the fact that they themselves were NEVER under LAW–I don’t know. If only someone would–could get others to understand to reject something, you would have to EXAMINE it first, then make a QUALIFIED (at least) determination as to the validity/value of WHATEVER is the “STUDIED”. 1975.Yesterday, as I call it. If only you & others could study materials from 1975. He is coming soon, but “quickly” means MORE than just ‘soon’.”SUDDENLY”,”LIVING”(f.nails)-& you stuck with the Inet/prob.only
  
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- therockczar
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 3:00pm
  Please explain, Jay1975 the theologian!!
  
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- KENTUCKIANAPATRIOT
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 3:11pm
  Luke 9:27. From not only which Bible, but on-line? Pray tell? (HOPE NOT-unless you know where to look). Let’s say a King James 1611. kingdom. kingdom of God ‘kingdom’ is not cap’t-so, what in this verse IS the ‘kingdom of God’–? You tell me, where are other verses containing the word ‘kingdom’. Do explain them all. Not that difficult.Some Reference Bibles and (check Linear versions always to a GOOD (old) Concordance, Strong’s is the easiest–but the modern ones esp.–FORGET THE ON-LINE ONES–for now anyway. You might be “reading from a “page” that is INCORRECT to Original Sources., & NOT know it. Let’s see, cross/Ref; probably Mk.9:1(jot down “not taste of death” too. ‘death’ not cap’d here, learn to look for more than one thing at a time, “taste”. ONE notebook, for now, 4 sections–leave the back open for other categorical notes/notations. Cross/Ref: Mark 9:1, ah,win my bets & I shouldn’t BE betting–well, Christ is NOT for perfect people, so far so good.Now, I’ve got a BPI form ’86, so, the Ref. verse from here goes to Matt. 16: 27-28. & we have more to work with, in “seen the kingdom of God come with power” (that’s Mk 9:1) Before Matthew, go ahead & track down ‘kingdom’, ‘power’ etc. FROM THESE verses in Greek.(deeper look at 1st Century Gk-not needed yet)It’s probably YEARS & a whole OTHER Field of Study that would take you there, “probably yrs before you would WANT & NEED to do THAT, I mean) Keep a list of verses,/the lang/C.dance, keep a
  
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- KENTUCKIANAPATRIOT
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 3:52pm
  One more thing. You might want to reconsider assuming to tell CHRISTIANS ABOUT THEIR HOLY SCRIPTURES. If you study for a lifetime, how much do you think there will STILL be unmined? How many LAYERS? It’s milk for babies, meat for men. It’s NEVER fodder for the short-sighted. One thing you need to know is, it is The Holy Spirit that teaches. Life, teaches. You could read a verse, a chapter one day, and understand in a deeper way, SUDDENLY it’s PERSONAL. Maybe YOU were treated unfairly, maybe you lost a loved one, maybe you have a knowing that “THAT”S what it means.” (If that’s the case, as with everything, “2-3 witnesses” required. If it’s in the NEW, it’s in the Old Testament. And will be found in the “same” (Old/New)Testament many times.Sometimes it’s the words that will hold–”chloros”. GREEN. 4x’s I think. Only ONE “chloros horse”, as far as I know. Obviously, if your Bible (Eng) is from the Sept. or Vulgate Original Transcripts, that you (for STUDY the way you seem to mean STUDY) should STUDY as well BEFORE you get into the Gk to Eng. or Hebrew. OR you could just read it, & PRAY. & STOP saying things like “John’s Gospel” There is ONLY ONE GOSPEL. John represents Grace. (Peter/Law, but that’s WAY TOO over-simplified.) Know what “shadows” of things to come are, OTest. IT IS REAL, History repeats itself, however,there is the ‘law of first mention’ in the Bible, as well.WHERE IS HE? On His way SOON, when “scoffers”start mocking.2ndPeter/ChapTHREE.
  
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- Sunnyy
  Posted on October 4, 2012 at 3:56pm
  John was “the disciple whom Jesus loved.” It is my favorite book in the bible :)
  
  And for what its worth…I believe our Lord will come back when the last soul is won (so if you’re on the fence…just jump, it might be you ;)
  
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- Possessor
  Posted on October 4, 2012 at 8:44pm
  So, where is this “God”? Didn’t he say that he would be back by now?
  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If some one were too read, study, pray, bible scripture, they would know, nobody knows when the second coming is going to happen, including the Apostles. Since you have not, didn’t, and very obliviously relied on other faulty, deficient ( like as in vitamin deficient ) information from highly educated ignorant individuals, you unknowingly in your infinite brilliant highly educated college mind, “outed yourself” genius.
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 10:43am
  Kentuckian, . . . a “circle” isn’t a sphere. If you stand at a high place and turn around, the topography won’t have edges, so will LOOK like a round disc, . . . which is what they believed. “….the circle of the earth” shows a flat earth belief, . . . as well as “the sky spread out like a tent”, the believe that the stars were “tiny and just up on a firmament”.
  
  Possessor, the part about “this generation” was talking about . . . .that generation. Not some “unknown future time”. Because it DIDN’T happen, . . . the church HAD to make it “prophetic”.
  
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Obama_Forward_Over_The_Cliff
Posted on October 3, 2012 at 4:40am
NATIONAL DAY OF PRAYER Now Under Attack In AMERICA! ** Mike Huckabee Exposes THE GOD HATERS!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrDefIuwZEo

“Hi, this is Mike Huckabee and want to thank you for taking my call.

“I’m calling today because the nation’s largest atheist organization, the Freedom From Religion Foundation, has claimed that our historic National Day Of Prayer is unConstitutional. This is going to prevent the time honored tradition from taking place ever again.

“Can you imagine our children and grand-children growing up in a society where we are forbidden to pray as a nation?

“It’s unthinkable, but the reality is that all public mention of God would be erased if Freedom From Religion Foundation wins this case.

“If they see a victory here, there’s going to be a renewed effort to rewrite our National Motto and the Pledge Of Allegiance, both of which refer to our Creator.

“That’s why we have to speak out against this right now. As a Christian, I’ve joined the National Committee For Faith And Family, which is dedicated to keeping God alive in our society and defend our God-given right to pray for our country.

“With so much at stake, I need you to be involved now more than ever, and help us protect the National Day Of Prayer. Thanks, and God bless you.”

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- turkey13
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 9:58am
  Eric Holder must have fallen asleep! I’m sure he has at least 20 DOJ lawyers headed to Pennsylvania to see what happened.
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 10:21am
  Do you ever stop to wonder why people are always attempting to “keep god alive in our country”? Why, do you suppose, there HAVE been many falling away from religious beliefs? Why, do you suppose, that even christians will behave in a way that they seem to conclude “there really isn’t a god, so I can do what I want”. IF god is real, . . . did ‘he’ make a mistake by “leaving it all up to ‘faith’, having no credible evidence”? If ‘he’ WAS truly visable, benevolent, helpful, actively stopping injustice, ending poverty, hunger, etc, . . . . I would think that no one would be “attempting to keep god alive in this country”.
  
  When I hear that phrase, . . . I see it as “people attempting to keep something alive that they NEED to stay alive for their own benefit”. It can be scary to think of a the ending of our lives being . . . the end. The ideology/doctrine of “heaven” produces hope. No doubt. Maybe there IS some sort of “afterlife”. A part of me hopes so. Truly! But that doesn’t make it true, just because it is a nice thought.
  
  I, personally, wish that [if there IS a being like a "god" that actually cares about us humans] “he”, “she”, “it” would be more than just “something another human SAYS is real”. Humans have been WAY too wrong about too many things. Something like this really DOES require MUCH more than “faith”.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 12:57pm
  Will one of you please answer this for me?
  
  Why do you need a federal/national day of prayer? If you don’t have that, are you somehow prevented from praying on that day? Does the Federal recognition and declaration somehow make prayers on THAT day clearer, or better heard by Jehovah? If it went away, would your right to worship and believe as you wish somehow be infringed upon?
  
  Hmm…
  
  So if you understand what I’m getting at, then why support a national day of prayer anyway? You wanna pray? Pray. Pray in the street, your yard, the mall, the parking lot… I don’t give a damn where you pray, so long as you do not impede my ability to travel freely or exercise my own liberty. But this notion that there’s an ‘attack’ on something that shouldn’t really exist anyway is preposterous, and little more than a rallying cry for the evangelical right to show how Christian they are, and how hard they work to promote and support your values. It’s a show, folks.
  
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- The land I love
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 1:18pm
  Why is having a national day of prayer a big deal to you then? Nobody is getting in your way to travel or impeding anything of yours. Nothing is being forced upon you. Why do you exist? Why can’t religion exist? Look, if anything Christianity teaches good morals and values, at least you could believe in that, doesn’t mean you have to believe in God. Go tell a Islamic country that their religion shouldnt exist and see how far your head rolls. A good story of an atheist in San Antonio wanted a nativity scene taken off the courthouse lawn of a small east texas town that I grew up in, which didn’t happen. Later that year, he developed an eye infection or something and a lot of the people that were criticized from this town gathered up $20,000 to give to him , covering medical and grocery bills…he changed his mind about Christians, not everything is bad in religion and this isn’t the war to fight bro
  
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- The Giver
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 1:39pm
  @ deavonreye- Read the Bible. It is changing my life. There is so much life wisdom in it. Try the One Year Bible NIV version. It’s not that flawed humans are trying to keep God alive. God lives whether we acknowledge him or not. It’s the consequences of pushing God away that are clearly stated in the Bible and now we are seeing the results all around us. People that are “trying to keep God live” are trying to fulfill Biblical covenants which clearly state that if you turn to God, He will heal our land. God is LOVE. Even if you don’t believe in God, but love and forgive ( even your enemies) as Jesus instructed, you will help others heal including yourself ( if you need it). We live because of God, not the other way around.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 1:40pm
  @TheLandILove
  
  A national day of prayer should not exist, and tax dollars are spent on events for the national day of prayer. They did it while I was in the military… a prayer breakfast on the National Day of Prayer… 90 minutes or so of lost work per person that attended, and everyone attended to get the hell out of 90 minutes of work. They undoubtedly do similar things in DC, and arguably with greater fanfare (read: COST). I’m sorry… we aren’t paying the representatives to pray. They can do that all they want to on their own time. You say nothing is forced upon me, but I contend that it is… like paying for this BS I mentioned above. If we did NOT have a ‘National Day of Prayer’ though, you would lose nothing. NOTHING. You would not lose one iota of your religious freedom, your ability to pray, to worship, to tithe if you choose, to proselytize… nothing.
  
  Now you put some nasty words in my mouth. I never said your religion shouldn’t exist. I likewise wouldn’t tell a Muslim that Islam shouldn’t exist. So long as the practice of your faiths do not, IN ANY WAY infringe on my liberty, initiate force against me or steal from me, feel free to worship and believe as you wish. That being said, get your God out of public policy, and get tax breaks removed for churches (since they don’t spend the money as Jesus told them to anyway… they just build bigger castles), If your God is so great anyway, why the hell does He need Federal sanction?
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 2:09pm
  Thegiver, . . . where I appreciate the sentiment of your post, . . . it just doesn’t hold any power to my reality. Not sure if you know my story, . . . I was “a christian” for ~20 years, and spent that time in FULL belief and trust in the christain god at that time. I was sincere! I wanted god “like the deer panteth for the water…”. I sought the indwelling of the “holy spirit”. I prayed, trusted, opened my “heart” to Jesus, and spent a lot of time at the alter. What was the common denominator in all of that? That there was nothing there. No revelations. No “comforter” that was promised to come. When my life was in shambles, justice was made a mockery. But mostly, everytime I attempted to “reach god” [prayer, bible study], I felt nothing. I sensed nothing. Just my thoughts. There wasn’t even any “god” TO “push away”!
  
  Eventually, as instructed by church leadership, I kept a journal of my thoughts when reading the bible. Read it more than I ever had. It was this time in my life when I discovered the errors, injustices, immorality and the frivolousness of life throughout biblical stories. Enough that I wrote a short book on those journal thoughts I was keeping.
  
  Eventually, I could no longer call myself “a christian”, and came to the conclusion that I was ONLY “a christain” in the past because I “believed other people”. It was no longer “good enough”.
  
  Anyway, thanks for your concern, none the less.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 2:50pm
  @DevonReye
  
  I couldn’t leave your post without a response, as I identify with it all too well. As a young Christian, I went on a mission to prove a particular Biblical doctrine of a particular sect. I read and studied as I never had in my life, all the while in prayer, fasting, meditating and seeking. I wanted to be a vessel, in humility, and through an outpouring of love in my attitude, and through my testimony. I devoured the Bible… the KJV, the NIV, other modern versions, and even ancient versions in latin, ancient Greek and Hebrew! One of the Bibles I was privileged to study out of (and yes, I call it a privilege) was over 1,100 years old. I studied with leaders in the protestant world, the Catholic world, with a messianic Rabbi, and an orthodox Jewish Rabbi. As my understanding and knowledge grew, I began to start posing questions to my elders that I thought an atheist might ask. Imagine my dismay when my use of the Socratic method eventually led every single one of them, without fail, to resort to a statement like, “Sometimes, you just have to believe.” I couldn’t believe that these men were reduced to such a simple and woefully inexcusable response to lil ol’ me and my questions. I was in agony over this for months. Then one night, I woke up from a dead sleep at about 2:30 am, and said, outloud, “There is no God.” It just… came out. I didn’t intend for it to, but it did. It haunted me for a while, and then I embraced it. Talk about liberation…
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 2:58pm
  Thanks for relaying part of your story as well. Often times, christains look at people, like us, and assume that “we still believe in god, but are being rebellious”. I WISH that were the case. I’m agnostic, so I’m open to there being “a god”, but lean towards atheism because there has never been a compelling reason to believe one actually exists. And, to be honest, often times I am GLAD it isn’t the one spoken of in the bible [especially the old testament].
  
  Anyway, thanks!
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 3:22pm
  I know… I lamented the loss of my faith for a couple of years. I felt betrayed and lost. Then I realized that I didn’t have to feel guilty anymore for being a human being, and didn’t have to believe that I was so bad before I was ever even born, that some guy had to be tortured and murdered for me so that I might have eternal life. I did not turn to drugs, I didn’t start lying, I didn’t steal or harm anyone… nothing about my character or moral code changed, really… I just wasn’t shackled anymore by the tremendous weight of the guilt slapped on people by Christianity, nor by it’s glaring hypocrisy (take care of the sick, the needy, the destitute… right after we build a NEW church that takes 85% of our annual revenue for the last 3 years! Sadly, I know the average spending on the local area poor, ill, infirmed and helpless is about 4% of annual church revenues. But plenty of new and improved castles have sprung up. A friend of mine who is a deacon told me, “It’s disgusting. If churches were doing what God told us to do, we wouldn’t NEED a welfare system! But most of these folks just want to belong to the biggest, newest or most beautiful church. They don’t give a damn about God or what Jesus told us to do. It’s a social thing for them.” But call them out on it, and you see what happens. They act real “Christ-like” don’t they?
  
  =(
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 3:48pm
  So true, Chris. And I shutter to think of the number of pastors [not all, but some] that have enough income to live a wealthy life, yet do so telling people to “give to the poor”. Sure, . . . as long as it doesn’t take away from my housing expense, fancy cars, and vacations. There is an underlining hypocricy in “the church”. Even worse on “church TV”. How many could have been helped by the money used to construct the mega church in my town. . . with architecture unnecessary to the purpose of the building?
  
  That was a rhetorical question, of course.
  
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- colt1860
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 3:51pm
  “Do not separate text from historical background. If you do, you will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of illegitimate government.” James Madison
  
  The first national Thanksgiving Proclamations were those issued by the Continental Congress between 1777 and 1784. http://www.pilgrimhall.org/GivingThanks3c.htm
  
  PRESIDENTIAL THANKSGIVING PROCLAMATIONS, from 1789-1815, were made by George Washington, John Adams, James Madison. http://www.pilgrimhall.org/ThanxProc1789.htm
  
  Thank God you militant atheists, secularist, and Marxists did not represent these united States of America in 1776.
  
  John Q. Adams, Sixth President of the United States, said, “The law given from Sinai was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code; it contained many statutes… of universal application-laws essential to the existence of men in society, and most of which have been enacted by every nation which ever professed any code of laws.”
  
  Fisher Ames, Framer of the First Amendment, said, “Our liberty depends on our education, our laws, and habits… it is founded on morals and religion, whose authority reigns in the heart, and on the influence all these produce on public opinion before that opinion governs rulers.”
  
  Benjamin Franklin, Signer of the Constitution and Declaration, said, “[O]nly a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters.”
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 4:13pm
  @Colt1860
  “Thank God you militant atheists, secularist, and Marxists did not represent these united States of America in 1776.”
  
  Have I proposed taking up arms against Christians? Have I proposed eliminating your rights to worship, pray, or tithe as you wish? Nope. I’ve just asked that we get your God out of public policy that affects me. What a militant!
  
  I adhere to the non-aggression principle, which means I find the initiation of force (in violence or corecion) to be reprehensible, whether it be through physical action or the force of law. The only just use of force, in my opinion is self defense. Not every atheist feels this way. There are indeed militant atheists, but I haven’t seen any here. I would have resisted the tyranny of King George right along side the theists. Why? Because I believe that no one owns me. I don’t own anyone else. The ironic thing is that the tyranny of this gov arguably exceeds that of King George against the colonies, what with the improvements in technology and rise of the police state. But when fellow Christian Dubya proposed killing all them Muslims in retaliation (thou shalt not kill… unless you’re government, and then it is ok, so saith The LORD), you all jumped on board. When he proposed thieving from your grandkids to get Medicare part D, and double the Dept of Education (thou shalt not steal, unless you’re the government, so saith the LORD), you all jumped on board.
  
  All statists are militant. Not all atheists are milita
  
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- colt1860
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 11:14pm
  @ChrisDiamond I never voted for Bush, his dad, or McCain. I’m only 24 years old. I didn’t register in 2006 or 2008 because they were all terrible, and didn’t agree with any one of them. So, I don’t know where you got those conclusions or why, that is, if they’re being directed to me. All I posted were statements by our founders, historical facts, and primary sources, that can’t be refuted.
  
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the_truth_or_not
Posted on October 2, 2012 at 10:45pm
I am asking this question far too much these days, and I never get an answer that is rational. How is a monument, the pledge of elegance or in this case, calling 2012 the year of the Bible equal a law that prohibits free exercise of religion? Here is the first amendment below:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

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- banjarmon
  Posted on October 2, 2012 at 11:52pm
  Atheists technically ARE lost!! GOD have mercy on their souls!!
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 10:08am
  You have to ask what “respecting an establishment of religion” means. Is “the year of the bible” a legal term?
  
  Here’s an interesting quote I found:
  
  “It means “relating to an aspect of religion.” So for example in the US constitution when it says “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”It is saying congress can make no law regarding religion. That is, it can’t promote one religion over the other, or create a religion, or pass a law forcing people to follow a religion, or to not follow a religion, or forcing people to pray, etc.
  It’s also often called the “establishment cause” or the “seperation of church and state.”
  The US was the first country to do this, at the time in many countries people were forced to go to church under penalty of law, and worship the government’s official religion or be punished (sometimes by death).”
  
  Here’s another interesting link for you to ponder:
  
  http://freethoughtblogs.com/alstefanelli/2012/05/11/congress-shall-make-no-law-respecting-an-establishment-of-religion-what-does-that-mean/
  
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- The land I love
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 1:24pm
  It’s Pledge of Allegiance
  
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IslandAtheist
Posted on October 2, 2012 at 10:17pm
Ban marriage between church and state, keep god out of government.

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- Jerry Frey
  Posted on October 2, 2012 at 11:11pm
  More God means better people, better people means better society. Just because you can’t distinguish between God and religion does not mean others can not.
  
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- TheObjectivist
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 12:38am
  BBut, religion/god is doing so well in the Middle East. Too bad the world will self destruct over Myths of whos imaginary friend is best. ┼=√-1
  
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- colt1860
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 12:46am
  “Rebellion to Tyrants is obedience to God!” – Benjamin Franklin
  
  I’m so glad our founders obeyed God!
  
  ” I, George Washington, President of the United States, do recommend to all religious societies and denominations, and to all persons whomsoever, within the United States to set apart and observe Thursday, the 19th day of February next as a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, and on that day to meet together and render their sincere and hearty thanks to the Great Ruler of Nations for the manifold and signal mercies which distinguish our lot as a nation, particularly for the possession of constitutions of government which united and by their union establish liberty with order.” – http://www.pilgrimhall.org/ThanxProc1789.htm
  
  “In these my confidence will under every difficulty be best placed, next to that which we have all been encouraged to feel in the guardianship and guidance of that Almighty Being whose power regulates the destiny of nations, whose blessings have been so conspicuously dispensed to this rising Republic, and to whom we are bound to address our devout gratitude for the past, as well as our fervent supplications and best hopes for the future.” James Madison, Inaugural Address
  
  “And may that Infinite Power which rules the destinies of the universe lead our councils to what is best, and give them a favorable issue for your peace and prosperity.” – Thomas Jefferson, Inaugural Address
  
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- wvernon1981
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 8:50am
  Not necessarily. There is actually a correlation between religiosity and lower societal health. This isn’t necessarily causation, but it does demonstrate that lower levels of religiosity do not harm societal health.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 1:19pm
  Amen, brother!!! =P
  
  Fellow ‘a word’ here, and no, the rest of that a word does not end with sshole.
  
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bekhiet
Posted on October 2, 2012 at 7:25pm
Why do atheists have to have an issue of every darn thing. Sick of it!!! I am offended and insulted by these people.

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- Cesium
  Posted on October 2, 2012 at 8:26pm
  99% of atheists are not part of an “atheist club” such as these groups that bring in legal suits. I know atheists who go to church and synagogue.. not all atheists reveal their atheism either.. some of the atheists I know who go to church and have religious friends have only admitted their atheism to other atheists like me in private… some people are not outspoken and don’t rock the boat but don’t fret! there are way more atheists among you than you think!
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 1:22pm
  Let me turn that question around… why do Christians get so upset over everything? Everything is an attack on your faith, your religious freedom… but when an atheist attempts to undo something that they believe favors a religion, will the overturn of whatever affect your faith, your religiuos practice or your relationship with your God in any way? If it does, then I would question my faith, friend… not the activities of an atheist.
  
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fgbouman
Posted on October 2, 2012 at 5:57pm
I’m an athiest but I find the idea of banning a Bible Year resolution fully as silly as banning same-sex marriage. I’d be stronger in my denunciation if it was only a “Bible Day” resolution – then it would be as stupid to ban it as it was to invade Iraq. Much less costly, of course.

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- ModerationIsBest
  Posted on October 2, 2012 at 8:37pm
  Just wait until they try to have their Bible taught in class as “science”….oh wait
  
  Just wait until Congress votes our national motto “In God We Trust”…..oh wait
  
  Just wait until they put “Under God” in our pledge…oh wait
  
  Just wait until they bocyott stores who say “Happy Holidays”…..oh wait
  
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- Wolfgang the Gray
  Posted on October 2, 2012 at 9:08pm
  FFRF doesn’t care about freedom, they only want to persecute people.
  
  I don’t support drinking, but I don’t go around trying to close bars, I respect people’s freedom.
  I don’t support strip clubs, but I don’t go around trying to shut them down.
  I don’t support liberals, but I don’t try to shut them up. America’s represents freedom (at least it did before BHO came along).
  
  You live your life, I’ll live mine. I don’t mess with you so leave me alone! If you want to believe that the only thing following you after your death is a worm fest in the ground, go for it. I believe this world is not the final chapter. If I’m wrong, then the worms get more food. If you are wrong, bring lots of ice, you’ll need it.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 1:45pm
  @Wolfgang The Gray
  “I don’t support drinking, but I don’t go around trying to close bars, I respect people’s freedom.
  I don’t support strip clubs, but I don’t go around trying to shut them down.
  I don’t support liberals, but I don’t try to shut them up. America’s represents freedom (at least it did before BHO came along).
  
  You live your life, I’ll live mine. I don’t mess with you so leave me alone! If you want to believe that the only thing following you after your death is a worm fest in the ground, go for it. I believe this world is not the final chapter. If I’m wrong, then the worms get more food. If you are wrong, bring lots of ice, you’ll need it.”
  
  While I may not agree with your after-death scenarios, I completely respect the points you make here.
  
  We believe God shouldn’t be in public policy or get any government sanction. My contention is this: if God is so great, then does He really need state or federal sanction for you to enjoy worshipping and practicing your faith, or for you to retain your freedom to do so? If we get rid of federal and state sanction of God, will your liberty be infringed upon? Nope.
  
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- The_Cabrito_Goat
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 3:54pm
  You’re correct. It’s not the responsibility of the government to hold the people morally accountable.
  
  It’s the responsibility of the people to hold the government to be morally accountable.
  
  I must stress the word “responsibility” here.
  
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TheObjectivist
Posted on October 2, 2012 at 5:49pm
I’M an Athiest, but i know im in the minority. This bible thing, I dont care, i have real things on my mind. You wanna believe? good for you. ┼=√-1

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capitalismrocks
Posted on October 2, 2012 at 5:05pm
So the one guy who’s a non-believer wants to ruin things for the millions who do believe… if you don’t like God, get over yourself…

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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 2:57pm
  Please explain how his success in this effort would have “ruined everything” for others? I’ll ask you as I have asked others here and gotten no response: is your relationship with your God contingent upon state or federal sanction of it? Were the group successful at banning Year of the Bible, would it have ended your right to believe, worship, pray or tithe as you saw fit? Nope. It sure wouldn’t.
  
  You might endeavor in the future to quit speaking in hyperbole about all of this. Hopefully pointing out that you’re doing it will help.
  
  Report this comment
Zurich
Posted on October 2, 2012 at 4:56pm
If the atheists don’t have a religion, they also don’t have a stand to sue at all. Only a member from a certain religion can sue another religion if he or she feels discriminated or if he or she is not allowed to practice his/her religion. But this is not the case; atheists don’t believe in anything, so why should we change our daily lives? Their rights end exactly at the point where our rights begin. So I don’t understand why any judge gets involved in such cases at all because there is no ground. If I was a judge I would start cracking if such an idiot shows up in court. It is like women sewing guys because they don’t have a ding dong. I have been saying for a long time that communists are using atheists to attack Christianity. Please take note that atheists never go after Muslim facilities nor against the Quran. It is all about taking away our God given freedom. The Obama Godverment wants to get the complete control over the people, especially in a Judeo-Christian Country like the U.S.A. that is God and Freedom loving. First Godbama took over health care, then the education system and student loans, then the auto industry, then the banks, then the Army and NASA and last but not least our religion and the Constitution. Sounds like a communist plan, doesn’t it?

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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 1:58pm
  @Zurich
  Your assertion that atheists have no grounds is patently absurd. The reason for this is: if atheists have no rights or grounds to sue in court regarding religion, then the law and the courts are blatantly preferential to religions and believers, excluding non-believers. This is not Constitutional because the Constitution was designed to make us all equal under the law. Religions and believers do not have “extra” rights. To assume such displays a glaring ignorance of American law, legal history and jurisprudence.
  
  Now… why should atheists be taxed for the government to build buildings that have “In God We Trust” on them? Why should atheists be taxed to pay for governmental activities on the National Day of Prayer? Are you saying atheists have no say over how our taxes are spent? That’s it’s ok for the gov to use our money to build monuments to a mythical entity we don’t believe in, and do it in our name? Are one’s rights diminished under the law because they do not believe in your God?
  
  Please tell me how efforts of atheist groups infringe in ANY WAY on your natural right to believe in and worship your God. Will ending year of the bible, or national prayer day keep you from believing? From worshipping? From tithing? From proselytizing? Nope. It sure won’t.
  
  If your relationship with God is contingent upon public sanction and federal sponsorship, then perhaps you should question the legitimacy of your faith as opposed to the activities of atheists.
  
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Billis820
Posted on October 2, 2012 at 4:54pm
The funny thing is that of all the court cases filed by Atheists, this one seems to have the most merit when it comes to Separation of Church and State. No Legislative body should be declaring a ‘Year of the Bible’. That’s just asking for a lawsuit, especially in this day and age. That may not be outright endorsement, but it is approaching that line. The judge was right to scold the lawmakers for wasting time with something that is utterly pointless, but I guess without utterly pointless publicity stunts they wouldn’t have much else to do..

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taxpro4u03
Posted on October 2, 2012 at 4:32pm
Me thinks da ‘judge’ needs an updated algorhythm — or dust off some books… It’s ALREADY codified by the Mother Corporation — He shoulda dismissed it as being without merit WITH PREJUDICE, and fined the FFRF for ‘costs’ for filing a frivolous lawsuit WASTING the court’s time — show me where Public Law -280 has been revoked…. http://www.provethebible.net/T2-Hist/H-0901.htm

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- The_Jerk
  Posted on October 2, 2012 at 4:38pm
  “… as the judge, despite ruling against secularists, also chastised state politicians for pandering to the electorate.”
  
  Who are these arrogant black robbed thugs? Almost time to start ignoring the courts. They are delegitimizing themselves.
  
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- Exrepublisheep
  Posted on October 2, 2012 at 4:53pm
  Year of the Koran. Then you’d get it.
  
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- dblaess
  Posted on October 2, 2012 at 5:17pm
  @Exrepublisheep
  Posted on October 2, 2012 at 4:53pm
  Year of the Koran. Then you’d get it.
  —————————————————————
  Good on, we don’t have to attend or believe. It would be a great time for you though. Perhaps you could find someone in violation of Sharia law who you could punish. It would be a wonderful chance to view the Koran practiced, and then Christians as well as the rest of the country could “get it”.
  
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JUSTANOTHEROPINION
Posted on October 2, 2012 at 4:28pm
Pandering to the electrate? Is that not the job of representatives? It’s very disturbing that a Judge would chastise Representatives for doing exactly what they were elected to do, Represent the electrates views. Just another Godless, Liberal Judge that is not happy enforcing the Constitution. I wonder how long before he strips and starts screaming!!!

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- AWJenkins
  Posted on October 2, 2012 at 4:50pm
  Obviously these members of the electorate did not feel that the representatives were doing a good job of representing them.
  
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Dismayed Veteran
Posted on October 2, 2012 at 4:27pm
I wonder if people had this same sense of fruitlessness on the eve of the Civil War? Are our differences so great that we can’t remain Americans any longer?

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normalmom
Posted on October 2, 2012 at 4:21pm
“Breach of the separation of church and state” Their flawed interpretation of the statement. Which is NOT in the constitution and was never meant that way. Anything in reference to that is the government will not establish any religion meaning we are not a catholic nation or a islamic nation or whatever. The government needs help in leadership that is where the bible needs to be brought in because right now they are lost and taking this nation with them.

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DWilliams08
Posted on October 2, 2012 at 4:16pm
http://www.usdebtclock.org/state-debt-clocks/state-of-pennsylvania-debt-clock.html

But the morons in the legislature and the morons at FFRF can waste our Federal tax money deciding this nonsense. How about they do their job and not worry about declaring it the year of anything.

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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 12:52pm
  Amen, brother. Pun most definitely intended. Quit wasting our tax dollars to deal with this crap. Hell, I am atheist and I don’t give a damn if a state declares it year of the bible. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg. Now… if they were taxing to provide some extra biblical program or whatever through the state then… yea, I would protest, too. But if it doesn’t infringe upon my natural rights, aggress against me or steal from me, then I really don’t care.
  
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republic2011
Posted on October 2, 2012 at 4:02pm
There are more of us believers than there are of them. It is time to stand up and fight. They will eventually regret waking up the sleeping giant. We are asleep no longer. If you don’t like God, learn to live with it, or get the hell out of this Country. We are taking our Country back and we are not afraid to pray, praise God, mention His name in public, or follow His word.

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- YAHUSHUAHRULES
  Posted on October 2, 2012 at 8:26pm
  Good Word. For those that want to see how we get back to the Founder’s vision. There is a statue called Matrix of Liberty in Plymouth and it was funded by tax dollars enshrining what it takes to be a moral and biblically literate people, the only people suitable for being governed in a Republic according to the Founders…
  Worth viewing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuN86qIqfw0
  For what the godless would have us descend to: dumbing down the populace so not only do they want big government but they will not survive without cradle to grave government care. Raising a generation so dumb they can’t govern themselves, they can’t critically think, they can’t serve on juries competently and can’t vote intelligently. Useful idiots for the state – A complicit media, captured Hollywood and forcing normalization of homosexuality and all manner of perversion, war against Judeo/Christian values, pledging allegiance to the earth rather then the flag of the US and the Republic for which it stands, environmentalism a tool of totalitarianism, a corrupt, amoral, godless generation and its not their children – for the most part they abort theirs – its co-oped indoctrinated “our” children and much more
  AGENDA: GRINDING AMERICA DOWN. get it. watch it. share it the hour is late and darkness closing in from all sides…And if America goes down the darkness in the world will be for a very, very long time
  so http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-dkKoJ3kT8
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 3:15pm
  @YahushuaRules
  
  Now I’ve read Yashuah, Yahshua, and Yeshua… but Yahushua is a new one on me… but I digress.
  
  The godless do not want anyone to descend to anything, or to be dumbed down at all. We would rather folks liberate themselves from the manipulative trappings of a fairy tale. I can’t speak for everyone, but this atheist does NOT want welfare (corporate or social) for myself or anyone else. The religious haven’t done anything to prevent public education from dumbing us and our kids down, and have not prevented the corporately owned media from telling all of us how to vote and think. There is a large Jewish influence in Hollywood, is there not? Many actors and entertainers are Jewish… so be careful attacking Hollywood here, else the “Israel FIRST” crowd will label you a Jew-hating antisemite… Ironic that you advocate pledging allegiance to a flag, even if the pledge references God… you’re right about the ecoterrorists, though. God those tree huggers really get under my skin.
  
  Christians amuse me though. The hypocrisy between their faith and the government they support is mind-boggling. Killing is wrong, unless you’re killing MUSLIMS! Stealing is wrong, unless you’re the government, and then their laws trump God’s law. Y’all hate big government, except the big government that YOU approve of, and you promote a thieving, murderous, backstabbing regime (whether it be democrat or republican) without much of a thought about it.
  
  Oh ye hypocrites..
  
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PIGSWILLNEVERFLY
Posted on October 2, 2012 at 3:55pm
When did people stop minding their own business? It used to be that everyone just believed what they believed and no one pushed their beliefs on anyone and everything was fine. That’s why, I believe, that their must be an agenda behind this atheist push. Christians have not changed. The intolerant atheists have changed and that is the difference, and they are hateful, jealous, that feel guilty every time they see a cross or a bible or a church. So to release them from their guilt we must submit to their world of no signs of belief and rewrite our history without reference to Jesus Christ or our Holy Father. They cannot tolerate the reminder of their daily sinful nature, so we must pay. Please God humble the godless see the Light, at least a flash of it.

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- thegreatcarnac
  Posted on October 2, 2012 at 4:38pm
  There is an agenda. The NWO types want no part of Christianity and eventually no part of any other religion. They want a fake, world religion to unite the world. Another group whose money is behind the attack on Christianity comes from Muslims. The more muslims in this nation, the more attacks. These attacks will come couched by other names. Why make it known muslims are against Christianity when they can give their considerable amount of oil money to atheist organization? This is their logic.
  
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- BCanook
  Posted on October 2, 2012 at 4:46pm
  People stopped minding their own business when it became apparent that others were not minding their own business.
  Examples would be trying to get rid of the pledge of allegiance and prayer in schools. Where you can have a nativity scene, how many lights you can put up around your house at Christmas, how big your soft drink can be, use of salt on your meal, where one can smoke if one chooses to do so, and the list goes on.
  
  Choices are made by individuals. Choices are liberties. Liberties have been under attack for many years and its been an inch by inch thing.
  
  Some believe that just because they don’t like it, you shouldn’t be able to do it. If you believe in liberty, then you will stop minding your own business because your liberties are being attacked on a daily basis.
  
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- wvernon1981
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 8:47am
  I do not feel guilty when I see a cross. I cringe at a bunch of suckers buying into it who haven’t learned to properly assess their beliefs using reason and evidence
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 3:37pm
  @PigsWillNeverFly
  Your posting name is ironic, given your belief in something you’ve never seen and never will see. I digress…
  
  “When did people stop minding their own business? It used to be that everyone just believed what they believed and no one pushed their beliefs on anyone and everything was fine.”
  
  I am RIGHT WITH YOU… all the way until you make the statement, “That’s why, I believe, that their (sic) must be an afenda behind this atheist push. Christians have not changed.”
  
  Dammit, man! You were making sense, and then… BAM… >.<
  
  Christians in the United States DID change. First, they started being Christians in name only (CINO)… then the evangelicals teamed up with the neoconservatives (Irving Kristol, Bill Kristol, Pat Robertson and so on and so forth) and got a bunch of CINOs to back the religious merit of global imperialism, the notion of American Exceptionalism (which is actually just combined to be the liberal Wilsonian doctrine repackaged and renamed). Perhaps it was just backlash against the cultural revolution of the 60s (and maybe against the fashion … revolution of the 70s… blegh). I dunno… but Christians wanted a bigger seat at the table of public policy decision making. Nothing wrong with that, if you believe in government… which you shouldn't. But through this platform the Christians started pushing their religious values and beliefs in the arena of public policy. No thanks. We don't need to make bad policy worse for a f
  
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toiletclogga
Posted on October 2, 2012 at 3:53pm
Dems should be all over this since they wanted to omit any reference to God in their platform.

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momrules
Posted on October 2, 2012 at 3:52pm
This country is doomed if, as a nation ,we do not turn back to God. He is patient but even His great patience has an ending.

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- thegreatcarnac
  Posted on October 2, 2012 at 4:40pm
  The election of a useless communist lilke obama in 2008,…shows He is through with us.
  
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dpmo63
Posted on October 2, 2012 at 3:47pm
Typical judge. Politicians pandering to the electorate, really? How does this judge think we have 16M people with free cell phones paid for by everyone else. What a dufus. God will not be mocked. His patience is not everlasting.

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DimmuBorgir
Posted on October 2, 2012 at 3:44pm
why is it freedom when atheist say what they want, but it’s pandering when a Christian says what they want?

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- booger71
  Posted on October 2, 2012 at 3:53pm
  Before the atheists begin, there is no such thing as separation of church and state in the Constitution.
  
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- DimmuBorgir
  Posted on October 2, 2012 at 4:00pm
  yeah they tend to just make that up
  
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SquidVetOhio
Posted on October 2, 2012 at 3:41pm
What do atheists do for fun when they’re not suing people?

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- DimmuBorgir
  Posted on October 2, 2012 at 3:43pm
  they create “art”
  
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- floridareader
  Posted on October 2, 2012 at 3:54pm
  I would them to play cards
  http://stg.do/91qb
  And learn some truth in the process.
  
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- The_Cabrito_Goat
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 3:57pm
  I’m deeply surprised that FFRF actually lost a case.
  
  Their record for wins is highly impressive.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 4:26pm
  @Squid
  
  I work, I study history, economics, philosophy, civics, law, discuss and debate with people on a myriad of topics, enjoy the company of my wife, play with and teach my children, help them with their homework, cook with them, make crafts and play games with them, play and record music (either voice, piano, trumpet, guitar or combinations of all of them), swim, hike, bike, hunt, write, blog, record podcasts, meditate, work in my yard, play with my pets, help clean the house, build stuff for my small farm, entertain the neighbors and friends, visit family, take the kids on wildlife expeditions (in south Georgia, there is plenty of wildlife to observe)… I also occasionally get back on the mat to get my **** handed to me in judo and/or Brazilian jiu jitsu, and do some sparring in the style of Muay Thai to remind myself how bad fighting can hurt. We also volunteer at our kids’ school, network, volunteer at homeless shelters and food kitchens so my children know to appreciate how good we have it, and enjoy learning about how good and rewarding it can feel to help others for no other purpose than helping them. And *gasp* I’m an atheist!!
  
  What about you? Most Christians I know make hobbies out of trying to outdo each other’s Christianity, much like the Pharisees that Jesus scolded. They also watch football religiously (HA!), BBQ, and make sure they are at church every time the doors are open. What about you?
  
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U.N.hater
Posted on October 2, 2012 at 3:40pm
I’m getting real tired of these people destroying this country. So when do we take this country back by force? Just how much do we have to put up with? Oh and Romney’s progressive side is showing again. Big buisness loves their cheep labor…..Is he or is he not going to shut down the border? Votes will change nothing in this country it’s to far gone……

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wingedwolf
Posted on October 2, 2012 at 3:38pm
Tell the Godless pieces of useless protoplasm to call 1-800-WHAA.

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kickagrandma
Posted on October 2, 2012 at 3:33pm
YES, GOD!

II Chronicles 7:14

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- SWORD_OF_THE_LORD
  Posted on October 2, 2012 at 3:42pm
  They’ll be meeting HIM sooner than they think, that will be a day to see …
  
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- SWORD_OF_THE_LORD
  Posted on October 2, 2012 at 3:43pm
  http://theseason.yolasite.com/
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 9:42am
  Wow. First reply to a first post on this story, . . .and we are already faced with a hater. . . a sadistic viewpoint of a person who “looks forward to seeing people sent off to a tortuous hell”. How delightfully primative.
  
  Fail.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on October 3, 2012 at 4:02pm
  @DeavonReye
  
  I couldn’t agree more. It is amazing to me that the being they worship, Jesus Christ could pray with mercy and begging for mercy on those who tortured and murdered him, but these folks can’t wait for us heathens to be in eternal torture and burning in hell.
  
  Tsk, tsk, tsk…
  
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