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Which Candidate ‘Failed’ on the Religious Freedom Scorecard?

Oct. 5, 2012 1:15pm Billy Hallowell

The Catholic Association (TCA), an organization that encourages the faithful “to apply Catholic teaching, wisdom, and principles to the issues of the day,” has released a new religious liberty voter guide. The document, which highlights seven key issues that are important to people of faith, also gives an overall grade to both President Barack Obama and Republican challenger Mitt Romney.

On TCA’s web site, Maureen Fergudon, senior policy advisor to TCA, describes a scenario in America in which the current administration has created purportedly divisive policies and regulations “that ignore our First Amendment protections and erode the religious freedom of Catholics and people of faith.” As a result, the TCA’s document, entitled, “Religious Freedom Scorecard,” attempts to frame both candidates’ views on a variety of issues.

The Catholic Association Creates Religious Freedom Scorecard | Obama, Romney

U.S. President Barack Obama (R) and Republican presidential candidate, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney (Photo Credit: Getty Images)

The issues presented within the document are: conscience rights, abortion and conscience rights, religious liberty awards, houses of worship, international religious freedom and religious freedom rhetoric. Considering the Catholic Church’s theology on birth control, abortion and other related issues, the marks for each candidate on these sentiments aren’t necessarily surprising.

Both Obama and Romney were given a thumbs up or a thumbs down for each of the seven indicators. The Republican candidate’s stances earned him seven thumbs ups, while Obama’s brought him seven thumbs down. Without too much difficulty, one can surmise the final grade for each candidate: Romney received an A+ for religious freedom, while Obama earned an F.

Here’s the scorecard in its entirety (you can download it here):

The Catholic Association Creates Religious Freedom Scorecard | Obama, Romney

The one-pager will be distributed to more than one million individuals across America and the document will be presented in English and Spanish. In addition to physical copies, TCA is hoping to spread the document via social media. Read more about the initiative here.

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Comments (243)

zanbuscus
Posted on October 5, 2012 at 6:23pm
Attention, I am Mormon. And for those who say “Mormons don’t worship God” “Mormons don’t believe in Jesus Christ” may I say to you, who the hell are you to say what I do and don’t believe in? I know that God is real and that He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, down to earth to show us how we could return to God and to die for our sins. Don’t you dare say Mormons don’t believe in God. You’re ignorant or reading anti-Mormon bullcrap. And by the way, Glenn Beck is Mormon, and if you actually listened to him, you’d realize he believes in God too. So enough with the stupid comment about Mormons not believing in God.

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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 6:58pm
  I reject Joseph Smith as a prophet. Does that make me a Mormon or a Gentile?
  
  Is this the god you believe in? Yes or no? Because this is not the same one Christians believe in.
  http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=b79b27cd3f37b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 7:14pm
  @the other
  A Mormon is someone who believes in the book of Mormon. It is possible to be a Mormon and not a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, just like in your case, it’s possible to believe the Bible and not know who Jesus is.
  
  Report this comment
- GoodvsEvil
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 7:15pm
  @zanbuscus
  I dont believe that mormons believe in the same God as I do. I have read that mormons dont believe that god is omnipresent; that they believe he was a human who became a god when he died and was given his own planet(earth); that they believe that Jesus and micheal the archangel are brothers and that jesus was just a prophet. My neighbor is a mormon and she has confirmed this. Mormons also believe that when they die they will become a god and get their own planet to rule as they see fit. I am a christian who doesnt believe in any of this stuff. Enough said, I feel I can vote for Romney because he seems to have America in his best interest, and Im sure he wont be on an apology tour or be bowing to ANY foreign leaders.
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 7:26pm
  We also believe that if you sacrifice enough children to Baal, you will get your own starship enterprise that can travel in time. I read it on a website, trust me LOL
  
  Report this comment
- GoodvsEvil
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 7:40pm
  I have read that Mormons do not believe in the same god as christians do; that they believe that god was once human and when he died he became a god who was given his own planet to rule as he sees fit; that Jesus was just a prophet and the brother of Michael the archangel.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 8:26pm
  @GOODVSEVIL you are correct. And that’s not the worst of it.
  
  http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=b79b27cd3f37b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1
  
  Report this comment
- RED PILL PATRIOT
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 8:58pm
  It’s amazing to me how we bicker amongst ourselves. You just read a freedom of religion article and the first thing you do is bash a religion. You are precisely what allows the few to crush the rights of the many. Until you all get off your high horses and join forces to fight the attacks on religion, they will always win.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 9:07pm
  Since when is telling the truth “bashing” someone?
  
  Report this comment
- The citizen who cares
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 10:28pm
  @theother
  
  Guess what? You ARE bashing. Have you ever talked to an actual member of the LDS church and asked what they believe? Have you ever been to an actual LDS church service? All three hours of it? You are trying to delegitimize the mormon church by telling everyone what the mormons believe with what you decide is ‘truth’. You are arguing over a non-issue and creating division while we should be united during times like these.
  
  Report this comment
- ldaopines
  Posted on October 6, 2012 at 5:52am
  The Mormons I know do believe in God, have strong family/community values, offer services here at home and abroad, and care for each other the way that Americans all used to care for each other. The Mormons I know aren’t abusing welfare systems, drugs, or the law and are patriotic.
  
  Who cares about the details of the religion, because no one is making anyone else subscribe to it. This is about the character of Mitt Romney, and his values are FAR closer to mine than Obama’s.
  
  Report this comment
- Grasshopper42
  Posted on October 6, 2012 at 6:46am
  James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 11:09am
  @LDA, the LDS “family values” that we all see, are only a facade for the underlying reasons, which are purely theological, if not sexual. Smith had a hard time keeping his hands off of teenage girls and other people’s wives.
  
  @JOEY8, your own prophets call anyone who belongs to CJCLDS “Mormon.” Once again, I have to teach you about your own religion. You are so pathetically naive and misinformed that you have no business even discussing it. Pride and arrogance has overwhelmed your common sense.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 12:40pm
  @THE CITIZEN
  
  LDS doctrine delegitimizes itself. All one must do is look at the facts. Even LDS are complaining that since the advent of the Internet, it’s impossible to keep up the lies. There is too much truth floating around.
  
  Here’s an eye opener for you:
  
  http://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 3:42pm
  JOEY8 slobbered ” I was watching ‘to catch a predator’ the other night and there was a guy named “theotherberean” trying to meet up with 13 yr old boys, coincidence?”
  
  What a hateful and depraved thing to say. Because we disagree on who Jesus Christ is, you’re willing to publicly destroy my character with lies? It’s bad enough you lie for Joseph Smith, but this is pathetic. Once you tell a lie, you have to keep telling lies, and not only do they eventually catch up with you, soon lies are all you have.
  
  Who, but a depraved heathen could tell such a lie about someone anyway? Harry Reid? Thanks for bringing him up. He’s a Mormon too. Another example of depravity. It’s nice to see the true Mormon character come out in so many of you. Kinda gives everyone a heads up as to just how desperate Mormons are and how low they will stoop to sell their snake oil.
  
  It’s sad that the Mormon Church has placed you in such a position that you have to lie. This is a vile and reprehensible tactic for someone who claims to follow Christ. And.you want us to believe anything else you say is the truth? Not a chance.
  
  But I’m still praying for you JOEY8, in spite of your hatred for me and the truth. Someday hopefully you’ll stop drinking the Mormon cool aid and turn to Christ instead of the false prophet, and then you won’t have to resort to such depraved self indulgences anymore.
  
  Your UK Mormon buddies are sure fed up with having to lie. http://mormonisminv
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 3:44pm
  mormonisminvestigated.co.uk
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 3:55pm
  @theotherthessalonian
  Oh poor you, you go slandering a man millions revere as a representative and spokesman for Jesus Christ without any evidence or citing any source, and you cry like a little baby when someone does the same exact thing, except I didn’t say it was you trying to molest little boys, I just asked if it was a coincidence, so with your logic, you need to prove that it wasn’t you
  LOLO looking in a mirror hurts
  Also, Harry Reid isn’t LDS, hes the same as the “Mormons” you cite in your mormonsinvestigated website, people that hate what my church stands for but are wolves in sheeps clothing staying in my church to try and give themselves credibility when they fool the fools like yourself
  
  Report this comment
- Just Here
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 4:02pm
  @ Other
  
  If the Mormons are telling lies, where did you get the truth?
  Your specific anti-Mormon websites please.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 4:08pm
  If you follow the false prophet and/or believe in the book he wrote, you’re a Mormon. Deal with it. That’s just more spinning to hide the truth.
  
  I did not slander JS. He is a false prophet and preyed on 14 year old girls and other people’s wives. Facts are facts. Check the Mormon Library. That’s where I got that info.
  
  But what you said about me is a blatant lie and you know it.
  
  You see, I don’t have to lie, but you do. I’m not selling snake oil, you are.
  
  Report this comment
- Just Here
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 4:17pm
  the problem other is that you don’t want to hear the truth of what the LDS faith believes, so you go directly away from the source to… less dependable sources, like random anti Mormon websites that most of the time have no way to prove their legitimacy.
  
  What you rather should do is go to lds.org, or mormon.org and look up your inquires there, directly from the source.
  
  like a historian, you must look at all sides of a story to figure out what happened. If you just take one persons story, the truth can easily be skewed.
  
  As such points out, you’re not a very good historian.
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 4:19pm
  @theotherthessalonian
  You aren’t trying to “sell” anything because you have nothing to offer. All you can do is slander a man who you never knew and say “its true, trust me, I read it on the internet”. The most honest you have been is when you said Jesus wasn’t raised with the same body that was on the cross and laid in the tomb. I guess if that’s what you’re offering, you have a tough sell to people that read the Bible, but like I said, you’re here to ignite anger.
  “But when the Jews of Thessalonica had knowledge that the word of God was preached of Paul at Berea, they came thither also, and stirred up the people”
  Perfect explanation of what you are
  
  Report this comment
- Just Here
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 4:20pm
  And what exactly is the Mormon library?
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 4:37pm
  The Mormon library is, among others, here, and here, but they make it extremely hard to find. Look at the length of the URL. Perhaps that’s why Mormons don’t typically know all that their church teaches. (see last url)
  
  http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=3e8c27cd3f37b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1
  
  http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=b79b27cd3f37b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1
  
  http://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 4:51pm
  JOEY8, you only disrespect me because you have no respect for yourself.
  
  And with good reason.
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 6:04pm
  @theotherthessalonian
  I wouldn’t consider an opinion piece written by institute teachers as the “Mormon Library”, just because it was linked in the LDS.org site. That was actually an Ensign article from 1989, and it’s actually an interesting article but I don’t see how you consider an opinion piece as “Mormon Library” I know you consider my faith as a mind controlling, brainwashing cult, but we are allowed to have different opinions on things.
  How about showing verses in the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, the Doctrine and Covenants, or anything said at the General Conferences when the Apostles and Prophets address the church as a whole? Then we could have a good honest discussion.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 6:28pm
  JOEY8
  
  It’s hard to pin a Mormon down on doctrine, unless I give you no wiggle room. Since it’s on the LDS web site with no disclaimers, you want me to believe it’s an opinion piece? What a bunch of garbage.
  
  JOEY8 said: “How about showing verses in the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, the Doctrine and Covenants, or anything said at the General Conferences when the Apostles and Prophets address the church as a whole? Then we could have a good honest discussion.”
  
  I’ve posted dozens of quotes and contradictions from your own standard works, and all you did was attack my person and insult my character and complain that I was copying and pasting to bash your religion. I don’t find any value in wasting my time trying to reason with you again. Go back and read my posts.
  
  The bottom line is, Joseph Smith is a womanizing false prophet, and you can dance on that all you like but it is the truth. Deal with it.
  
  And thank you for arguing with me so vehemently. You have given me a HUGE audience with which to expose your false prophet, and Mormons in general, for who and what they really are. Thank you! Keep it up!
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 6:38pm
  @theotherthessalonian
  “it’s hard to pin a Mormon down on doctrine, unless I give you no wiggle room. Since it’s on the LDS web site with no disclaimers, you want me to believe it’s an opinion piece? What a bunch of garbage.”
  I’ve already let you know what is considered official doctrine of the church. When a bishop of a ward, an institute teacher, and a seminary teacher get together and write an article, that is NOT considered official doctrine. They do not speak on behalf of my religion any more than you speak in behalf of Christianity.
  I also don’t remember you quoting anything from the Book of Mormon or standard works, so try again and we’ll see. I enjoy this. Especially when you make claims with no evidence or cite any sources. Kinda like the guy on ‘to catch a predator’, lol!
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 6:42pm
  Oh, and why did you bring up the Book of Abraham in the first post if you don’t want to talk about it? Called your bluff? Again? Still waiting.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 6:53pm
  JOEY8
  
  Again, I have posted dozens of quotes from your beloved standard works, that prove all of my arguments. Go back and look.
  
  Calling me names only proves you don’t have any valid arguments.
  
  Again, Joseph Smith is a womanizing false prophet. Can you dispute that? I’ve asked you a dozen times or more. Is he or is he not a false prophet according to Deut 18?
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 6:54pm
  I brought up the BoA because it proves once again that Smith is a false prophet.
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 7:02pm
  @theotherthessalonian
  “Again, Joseph Smith is a womanizing false prophet. Can you dispute that?”
  again, i saw someone with your screen name on “to catch a predator” trying to molest 13 yr old boys. Can you dispute that?
  What facts are you using to show he was a womanizing false prophet? Polygamy? Because then Abraham and Jacob are womanizing false prophets. OOPS!
  Is it the words of people that hated him? Lets look at the words of people that hated Jesus and continue to hate Jesus. No bias. Again, what “facts” are you looking at
  So if someone claims that you are a pedophile, its up to you to prove them wrong? What world are you living in. Lets see the facts you have.
  
  Report this comment
- Just Here
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 7:04pm
  @ Other, well, I read the 2 article links to the ensign that you posted, and I found that the 2 of them never say, claim or come close to saying that Joseph Smith was just out to prey on 14 year old girls….
  
  Did you in fact read it and find it to say that?
  
  Report this comment
- Just Here
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 7:10pm
  @ other
  
  Could you point out how Deut. 18 disproves JS?
  Would be helpful to know how you interpret the scripture.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 7:21pm
  JOEY8, more lies, more deception, more libel and slanderous comments about my person. No one knows who I really am so it doesn’t matter if you lie about me. It just proves that you are hate yourself. Otherwise you wouldn’t stoop so low. So it causes me absolutely no harm, but sure makes you look like a jerk. We’re all accountable, don’t forget.
  
  It doesn’t surprise me that you continue to lie for Smith. We can all see your hideous ruse. We can all see that you are less than honorable in your discussions with me, and will use any tactic that you think is necessary to promote your false prophet’s lies. That’s pathetic.
  
  The facts about Smith, and you, speak for themselves.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 7:25pm
  @JUST
  
  If you want me to engage you, we have to set up some rules. If you quote me, please “quote” me. Don’t echo back what you want me to say or what you think I said. Quote me word for word. When you do that, I will respond. I won’t however, answer any more straw man questions from any of you unless you place everything I say context.
  
  Report this comment
- Just Here
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 8:29pm
  Alright then….
  
  theotherberean
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 4:08pm
  “I did not slander JS. He is a false prophet and preyed on 14 year old girls and other people’s wives. Facts are facts. Check the Mormon Library. That’s where I got that info. ”
  
  theotherberean
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 4:37pm
  “The Mormon library is, among others, here, and here, but they make it extremely hard to find. Look at the length of the URL. Perhaps that‘s why Mormons don’t typically know all that their church teaches. (see last url)
  
  http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=3e8c27cd3f37b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1
  
  http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=b79b27cd3f37b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1”
  
  theotherberean
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 6:53pm
  “Again, Joseph Smith is a womanizing false prophet. Can you dispute that? I’ve asked you a dozen times or more. Is he or is he not a false prophet according to Deut 18?”
  
  now can you answer my questions
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 9:17pm
  @theotherthessalonian
  You have to purposefully miss the point of my comments. If what I accuse you of is ridiculous, it’s the same exact thing you are doing. Mirrors suck to look into huh? You make the claim that Joseph Smith was a pedophile womanizer and fail to provide any evidence (which is why I called you Harry Reid). So I did the same exact thing, except I didn’t accuse you of wanting little boys, I just asked if it was a coincidence.
  So, are you going to share your evidence that Joseph Smith was a pedophile womanizer? I thought your whole purpose of being here was to dispel the Mormon lies, well here’s your chance and you’re bombing it pretty bad.
  Can you disprove that you don’t like little boys? I made the accusation with no evidence, but it’s up to you to disprove it. You claim that you like Glenn Beck, but you obviously missed his show after Harry Reid threw out those accusations on Romney.
  
  Report this comment
- USALOVER2011
  Posted on October 8, 2012 at 11:33am
  Psssssst! Guys, Mormon none Mormon….Christians None Christians. I hate to interrupt, but you guys had been discussing about this since yesterday…. Can you just put everything aside, for the next 29 days. It’s getting very close to the election. Let’s all just agree that we are all going to vote for Romney/Ryan…You have the rest of the next 4 years to talk about your Religion. We all need to come together and support our candidate!!! For the TROLLS just keep on TROLLING!!!
  
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theotherberean
Posted on October 5, 2012 at 6:11pm
Comment Comment

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theotherberean
Posted on October 5, 2012 at 5:57pm
Comment

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Goldi-lox
Posted on October 5, 2012 at 5:55pm
This scorecard seems like a good idea, an effective tool–glad to see it’s being distributed in Spanish as well as English.

On an unrelated matter: What are Romney/Ryan doing to reach out to Hispanics? Was impressed at RNC when Romney’s son gave a brief speech in Spanish… Does Mitt speak Spanish? How about Paul Ryan? Have heard nothing on any of this and would be interested to learn what they’re doing to address the Hispanic population…?

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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 6:11pm
  Aren’t we all “Americans” first?
  
  Report this comment
- The Giver
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 12:52am
  Don’t know what Romney’s doing, but I do know that Obama gave a job to the wife of Univision’s owner prior to the Univision interview.
  
  Report this comment
Git-R-Done
Posted on October 5, 2012 at 5:44pm
That’s b/c religion stands in the way of establishing a Marxist society. So of course Obama and the rest of his fellow lefties can’t support freedom of religion.

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coizinho
Posted on October 5, 2012 at 5:36pm
GOD was troll UNDER THAT BUS in the Democrats Convention. Democrats renounce GOD not one , not twice, but three times. Now any one tell me or explain this to all the American people, if this is not a WAR IN RELIGION.

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- Lucy Larue
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 9:05pm
  COIZINHO,
  You are correct. There is a war on religion.
  That is what Progressives do. They attack all that encourages humans to stay true to a moral compass.They try to destroy all that is good, all that gives us hope, joy, redemption and forgiveness.
  Progressives are Socialists. They are Marxists.
  One of my heroes Winston Churchill said,”Socialism is a philosophy of Failure., the creed of ignorance,and the gospel of envy. It’s inherent virtue is the sharing of misery”.
  
  This war on religion that you are right about…, it is not being conducted by disgruntled atheists who feel left out. It is being conducted by Marxists under the guise of atheism to destroy the very fiber of the greatest country the world has ever known. It is that simple.
  That is what Marxists/Socialists do. It is their schtick. They destroy.
  This current administration of socialists has given all SOCIALIST and MARXISTS the courage to emerge from the ratholes and sewers where they dwell.
  In November of 2012 it is the job of EVERY AMERICAN to send them scurrying back to their RATHOLES and SEWERS.
  Dante(of Divine Comedy fame)said,”The hottest place in hell is reserved for those who remain nuetral in a time of moral crisis”.
  This is a moral crisis for our nation.
  It does not matter whether Romney is a Mormon. It does not.
  It matters that Romney is a good and decent man who believes in God and loves his country. Romney knows that this nation is facing the abyss. He will do the right th
  
  Report this comment
stuharnden
Posted on October 5, 2012 at 5:17pm
When I was growing up my Pa said never argue politics or religion with friends or enemies. Well politics I am going to vote for Romney. Religion, I am not too religious but I try to live by the ten commandments, and I think if everybody did it would not matter what religion you called it, it would be a lot better place to live. I do not always have success but I will keep trying. “GOD BLESS”

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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 5:35pm
  Good advise. Jesus, when asked which of the commandments was the greatest, replied that if one loves the Lord God with all his heart, mind and soul, and loves his brother as he loves himself, all the other commandments will be fulfilled.
  
  Report this comment
- RWCT
  Posted on October 6, 2012 at 2:00pm
  Good for you Stuharden. Unfortunately, although you try to keep the 10 commandments, it is IMPOSSIBLE to do so. The Bible says you would have to keep them ALL in THOUGHT and DEED, from the age of responsibility before God[and ONLY HE knows this age for each indidvidual] for your whole life. God;s Word also goes on to state that NO person has EVER been able to accomplish this[except for Jesus in human form]. It states “For ALL have sinned and come short of the Glory of God. there i one, no. no not one. God gave a solution to this problem. HE sent HIS Son to take all of our sins upon HIMSELF, and died for us to satisfy a HOLY God’s Justice. Christianity is NOT a religion at all. It is a PERSONAL relationship between each person, and God, when you invite Jesus to come into you. He will, if you repent and believe. This is ALL that is required.NO “RELIGION” offers this. ALL religions preach salvation by doing good works, or trying to become a god.I pray for you, that you might take up this offer.
  Maranatha
  
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sbenard
Posted on October 5, 2012 at 5:04pm
There’s your choice, America! Freedom or tyranny!

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- Arminius23
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 12:34pm
  I voted for Romney the moment after the debates because I wanted to see if he was a lost cause in which case I was going to throw my vote for Gary Johnson. Good to see that we actually have a shot at getting this godless man out of office.
  
  Report this comment
vaman
Posted on October 5, 2012 at 4:10pm
Some of the most ridiculous tripe the blaze has ever posted. The last thing we need is religion in the public forum. Let’s be clear though, “religion” refers to christianity and nothing else. The so called religious freedoms are really only meant for people that carry a cross. No one is taking your church away. No one is burning it down. No one is pushing you in to the ghettos. No one is doing anything to combat religion. There is no discrimination of religion. There is no war on religion. Radicals believe there is, or at least attempt to convince themselves there is an onslaught of abuse towards christians. Patently false and a lie. Churches on every corner. Sorry you can’t have the 10 commandments in public schools or courthouses, but this is a secular nation. Conversely, the current amount of anti-freedom, discriminatory and abusive behavior from christians is at an all time high.

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- Kenszen
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 4:35pm
  There is no war on religion? You’re kidding, right? Where do you live?
  
  BTW, people who belong to religions and religions themselves are part of the country. They have every right to seek to protect those things that are important to them, so this report is not “ridiculous tripe.” This may not be a topic of interest or importance to you, but it is for a very large populace.
  
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- CEO BKI
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 5:04pm
  No war on religion? What planet have you lived on for the last 20 years or so. It’s currently being waged in a disgustingly blatant manner. The infringements on religious institutions just in the obama healthcare tax legislation alone is an outright intrusion on the freedom of religion guaranteed under the 1st amendment.
  
  The only religion we’re no longer fighting is radical islam. Praise be to obama & hillary for fixin’ that one. The future can’t belong to those who blaspheme the prophet you know.
  
  Marxists have to diminish religion. It’s just an integral part of their plan. They worship power, and themselves (obama being a prime example), Other Deities have to go.
  
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- Chuck Stein
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 5:15pm
  Congrats, Vaman — when I see a post that I disagree with, I might address the one or two most wrong things. Your post is so uniformly and extremely ill-informed that I simply cannot pick one or two wrong things upon which to comment. Your post is perfectly wrong.
  
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coyote1hell
Posted on October 5, 2012 at 3:05pm
Madonna…We have a Black,,..Muslim…in the White House…She said it all….

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Individualism
Posted on October 5, 2012 at 3:05pm
well if that evil cult with a history of mass murder war and hate doesn’t like a candidate, its normally a good idea to consider them however we all know how bad the record of both of them are and how dangerous it is.

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- Worriedboomer
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 3:10pm
  “well if that evil cult with a history of mass murder war and hate doesn’t like a candidate, its normally a good idea to consider them however we all know how bad the record of both of them are and how dangerous it is.”
  Sorry, but this is a bit confusing. Could you please clarify pronouns? Who is “that evil cult”? “to consider them” refers to whom? “both of them” means Romney and Obama? What record of both of them is bad? “how dangerous it is” what does “it” refer to? Thanks for clarifying.
  
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- Anonymous T. Irrelevant
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 3:50pm
  Also, apply punctuation, it makes it easier to read. I failed you, too :-)
  
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- Joey8
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 5:18pm
  I get confused when individualism is talking about cults. I don’t know if he’s referring to the USA for blowing up the Twin Towers (he’s a 9/11 truther) or if he’s talking about the Jews for murdering Palestinian terrorists (he doesn’t like Jews that much).
  So what do you call the group of followers devoted to Jesse Ventura and his conspiracy show?
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 5:30pm
  JOEY8 it’s obvious you’re confused. Step away from the Mormon cool aid.
  
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woodyee
Posted on October 5, 2012 at 2:51pm
Here’s a short, yet detailed list of what Gaybama has done AGAINST Christianity, and FOR islam; it’s really good for quick reference, and you know how Lefties are sticklers for details (just so long as they favor them) –

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2012/10/pres-obamas-record-in-regard-to-christians-and-biblical-values/

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justangry
Posted on October 5, 2012 at 2:45pm
To be honest this seems like the only freedom that’s important for many on this site.

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- PATTY HENRY
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 3:05pm
  NOPE, but it is the PRIORITY. GOD is our FIRST thought. OUR GUIDE. We have learned via life’s experiences where the Power and Glory come from @ JUSTANGRY. Maybe if you felt more like some of us, you would could call yourself RARELYANGRY.
  
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- Worriedboomer
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 3:07pm
  JustAngry, although it’s not the only freedom that we worry about, you probably notice it being discussed because right now the loss of Freedom of Religion is the biggest threat. I worry about all of our Freedoms being lost as the Constitution is generally ignored, but this one does hit close to home. Which freedom do you worry about? Is it never addressed? I’ll join you in trying to bring it to the fore of the discussion.
  
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- Creativethinker
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 3:23pm
  Just heard a caller who is a neuro-surgeon on a Mark Levin radio segment confirm that there are death panels in Obamacare. They just give it another name. I will post the link to the segment when I can figure out how.
  
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- Joey8
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 5:04pm
  Most believers in God believe that it was God that endowed us with certain unalienable rights. God’s pretty important to most people that believe in the message from the Declaration of Independence so anything that challenges our 2nd amendment is taken seriously.
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 5:20pm
  The problem is, Mormons don’t believe in God. They believe in a man.
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 5:57pm
  Hey JOEY8, Am I a Mormon? Yes, or no?
  
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- Joey8
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 6:04pm
  @the other
  I have no idea what you are, I would guess an old senile lonely man looking for love in the wrong places?
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 6:20pm
  And in true Mormon style of deception, confusion and distraction, you sidestepped the question and directed the focus instead to my person, and because the answer makes you squirm.
  
  But I’ll answer since you’re afraid of the truth… Of course I cannot be a Mormon, because I reject the Book of Mormon as the gospel and Joseph Smith as a prophet of God. Why are you afraid to say that? Because by that same logic, you cannot be a Christian?
  
  When will you stop lying to yourself?
  
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- Joey8
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 6:30pm
  If we use the term “Mormon” to mean someone that believes the Book of Mormon, I’m assuming you don’t read the Book of Mormon. You can be a Mormon and not a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints so I don’t know what your question was trying to prove. Membership in the church is more than just believing a book is true, it involves having faith in Jesus Christ, repenting, being baptized and receiving the Holy Ghost, and enduring in faith to follow the teachings of Christ.
  
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- Joey8
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 6:32pm
  @theother
  of all the “GOTCHA” questions to copy and paste from those websites, this was the best you could come up with? LOL, sorry i ruined the whole punchline for you.
  
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- justangry
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 7:01pm
  If you all don’t think a leader who would take away one right away is capable of taking away all our of rights, your nuts.
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 7:14pm
  JOEY8, again, another deception and a distraction from the truth. Why don’t you embrace it instead of running from it?
  
  I have to be careful to word the questions just right with Mormons, otherwise they have wiggle room.
  
  If I don’t have faith in the Mormon Jesus, can I be LDS?
  
  That’s the point. If you don’t have faith in the Christian Jesus, then you aren’t a Christian.
  
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- justangry
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 7:18pm
  @Worriedboomer, The biggest threat is NDAA. Whether the Catholic Church has to pay for birth control is trivial by comparison. Besides religious freedom isn’t the only part of the 1st amendment that is under attack. HR347 makes it a felony to protest anywhere the secret service declares unlawful. Ryan voted aye on it, and from his support for other police state type legislation I’m sure Romney is fine with it as well. Really man, get a grip.
  
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- Joey8
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 7:28pm
  @the other
  If you don’t believe that Jesus was resurrected with a body of flesh and bone, that His disciples touched, can you be a Christian? This might disqualify you then, since you don’t believe in the New Testament Jesus, but an invisible one
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 8:24pm
  JOEY8
  
  I don’t know where you got this, but you are clearly an idiot so you probably imagined it, but I have never said this, nor any of the dozen or so other beliefs you keep wrongfully assigning to me. I know it suits your argument to put me in that box, but it’s simply not true. And it’s dishonest to boot. I know you think you’re smart and cool, but you’ve only proved yourself to me to be naive, immature, and absolutely untrustworthy and insincere.
  
  So for once and for all, the risen Jesus of the Bible has a “glorified” body of flesh and bones.
  
  The LDS Jesus, OTOH, is only one of three gods, and the literal offspring of a mother god and father god. He is literal flesh and bones.
  
  Big difference.
  
  But regardless, why wrangle about these side issues? The difference stems from Joseph Smith’s prophecies, who is disqualified as a prophet of God because he uttered many false prophecies. Deut 13 and 18 tell us how to deal with false prophets, and we are to ignore them. That’s all the reason anyone should need to ignore the teachings of Joseph Smith.
  
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- cykonas
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 8:27pm
  Come on Just, you’re smarter than that. Freedom of Religion is the predominant discussion here because that is what this story is about. If you go to a story where the predominant issue is Freedom of Speech, guess what? Most people will be talking about Freedom of Speech. If you go a story that is about gun rights then most people will be talking about the Freedom to Bear Arms.
  
  None of the Freedoms/Rights supersede any other one. The discussion is driven by the topic of the story. Peace.
  
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- Joey8
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 9:41pm
  “And we are to ignore them”you kinda suck at doing that. If you believe the Bible, do us a favor and ignore us lol.
  Oh you can’t because then you’d be forced to start explaining your beliefs which is what you don’t want to do because then you’d have to explain how Jesus is God the Father, but God the Father doesn’t have a body of flesh and bone, but Jesus does, but they are the same substance, but not.
  God spoke to Moses face to face, just likea man talks with his friends, not in dark speeches, or visions or dreams, but mouth to mouth
  
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- justangry
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 9:59pm
  @cykonas, Come on man. The Blaze has done more stories on that silly Asian dance craze than they have on the NDAA. There was barely a word mentioned on that and it is huge. A couple sentences in an interview with Alan West is it. Yet, he’s paraded around this place like he’s something special in Washington. I wasn’t necessarily talking about the comment section and to be fair, they are better than the MSM.
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 11:31am
  @JOEY8, There you go again.
  
  I realize your church has taught you to be dishonest, and with good reason. No one will believe the snake oil you sell without the lies and deception which support it.
  
  The reason you have such a hard time understanding what I believe, is because you are testing everything I say against the false teachings of Joseph Smith rather than the Bible. Smith confuses the nature of God, and there are so many contradictions in LDS doctrine that it’s no wonder you are confused. I’ve said time and again that Jesus is both God and man, and the risen Jesus had a glorified body, the same as we will have after Christ’s return. Not the same as we have now, as you seem to indicate.
  
  So please, stop trying to prove me wrong by placing me in a box. Jesus and God most definitely are of the same substance, but it is not flesh and bone as you say, but Spirit. This fact also accounts for why Moses could speak face to face with God, but not “see” Him.
  
  Jesus has a glorified body, not a body of flesh and bone as Smith taught. Your error in understanding of the true nature of God, accounts for your insistence that what I believe is a contradiction, when it is Joseph Smith’s false gospel that is causing problems for you. In more ways than you know.
  
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- Joey8
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 1:39pm
  @the other
  Here let’s test what you say verses the Bible. You said
  “Jesus has a glorified body, not a body of flesh and bone as Smith taught”
  When Jesus was resurrected and appeared to His disciples, He presented His body as evidence that it was Him, the same Jesus whose body was not in the tomb, but right in front of them. They felt the prints in His hands and side. Are you telling me that it wasn’t a body of flesh and bone that they were touching? It wasn’t the same body that was on the cross and was laid in the tomb? So what were the disciples touching? How did Jesus eat?
  I’ll admit, your tactic does what you intend, confuse. The only problem is that you fight against God when you attempt to confuse His word and twist them to your own purpose.
  When Christ returns and visits the Jews, which body will He have when they ask Him “what are those marks in your hands?”
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 2:29pm
  JOEY8, No, it was not the same body, it was a glorified body.
  
  Regardless, doctrinal discussions between us are pointless. I have the truth…the Bible, and you have the teachings of a false prophet.
  
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- Joey8
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 2:40pm
  @theother
  “No, it was not the same body”
  Wow, for once you are being honest with believing a different Jesus than the Bible teaches. The Bible teaches that the tomb was empty afterJesus was resurrected, where did the body of flesh and bone go? And you mean to tell me that His “glorified” spirit has scars in it? I though you said spirits are invisible, so how could the disciples see Him? If Jesus and His Father are the same substance, why is Jesus a “glorified body of spirit” that people can see, but the Father is invisible and can’t talk to Moses face to face like a man speaks with his friend?
  Now that you’re finally being honest with yourself, maybe you’ll see all the holes in your interpretation. It’s no wonder you’ve been avoiding telling us what you believe, it’s a mess!
  
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- Joey8
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 2:55pm
  The great Christian message: He is not here, he is risen!
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 4:01pm
  JOEY8 Everyone can see that you have to twist my words to make your argument work.
  
  That’s pathetic. How do you live with yourself?
  
  But I guess anyone who believes Joseph Smith in spite of his false prophecies and a hearty appetite for 14 yr old girls and other people’s wives, will believe just about anything. Delusional is an appropriate word.
  
  Have you looked here yet? mormonisminvestigated.co.uk
  
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- Joey8
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 4:31pm
  @theotherthessalonian
  I’ve seen that website plenty of times. I actually served as a missionary in England and am very aware of the website author as he’s tried to write on our mission Facebook page plenty of times. It’s apparent you haven’t read the website because it’s not Mormons writing on there like you think, they are actually evangelicals. Do you put this much trust into random sources as long as they hate what you hate? You would fail my research and theory class.
  Trust me, we are very aware of how bad Satan wants to discredit our religion, that’s his greatest work and he has no shortage of fools to fight against the light of Christ, but I’ll continue to discuss doctrine with you in spite of your intentions.
  So, if the Father and Christ are the same substance, why does Christ have a “glorified body” that is a spirit people can see, but the Father, who is greater, not (He’s invisible)
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 4:49pm
  JOEY8, no, you are wrong. Those are Mormons on the UK site, complaining about having to defend the Book of Abraham, when even they can tell it is a blatant fraud.
  
  Joseph Smith could neither read nor interpret Egyptian, much less Reformed Egyptian, and that is the point. If he could not interpret the Book of Abraham, which he said was a revelation from God but in fact is “dead, embalmed and in its canopic jars” as the site argues, how could he have interpreted the Book of Mormon 6 years earlier?
  
  Logic and reason tell us that he could not have.
  
  Here it is again.. http://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/
  
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- Joey8
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 9:34pm
  @theother
  Whats the phrase you like “teacher, teach thyself”
  This is under the “about us” on that website
  “Welcome to Mormonism Investigated UK, this blog seeks to educate Christians about the beliefs and difficulties within Mormonism both biblically and historically, and seeks to engage with members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS) with respectful discussion but also seeking to challenge them lovingly with the biblical gospel.
  This blog is connected to UK Partnerships for Christ. This ministry seeks to educate the UK Church on how to respond to Members of the Mormon and Jehovah’s witness church, and others like them by lovingly sharing the biblical gospel in a confident and informed way.”
  LOL at the “lovingly sharing” part, you are great at that. Oh and the “informed” part too.
  This is a website run by the UK Partnership for Christ, not by Mormons. Sorry, teach thyself
  
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RealLiibertarian
Posted on October 5, 2012 at 2:12pm
Its absurd that so many of the people calling for religious freedom are some of the least likely to give it. The ‘religious freedom’ that I read so much about on this site is nothing but ‘freedom to be Christian’, and generally hard core Christian at that. Less dogmatic Christians, such as Episcopalians, Congregationalists, and Unitarians are reviled nearly as much as pagans, Hindus, and Muslims. I’d love to see real freedom of religion in this country, where we pagans can set our solstice decorations on the town green, next to the nativity scene, or give a pagan benediction to start a town meeting. Sad to say, the people most screaming about their religious freedom will never allow it. They claim to be ‘persecuted’ because they no longer have sole rights to the public pulpit.

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- grimmster
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 2:20pm
  @realloonytarian aka encinom.
  Really?this is the lie media matters had you post? F-n pos idiot…….
  
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- DissenterKnight
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 2:37pm
  As a Christian and a pastor, I respect the right of Hindus, Muslims, Budihsts and any other religion –even Satanists- to make their own choices with respect to the morality and dogma that they will take as their own. I respect their right to practice their religion as they see fit, until it infringes on or impede the liberty of their fellow man. Please note, it remains my responsibility to provide a witness of God’s love and Christ’s atonement, even when I accept their choice.
  
  That said, you are correct, I do not extend the same freedom to those who practice my religion where diversity ceases to be an issue of interpretation and becomes heresy. All religions, not just Christianity, recognize the need to guard against false teaching. If a congregation or denomination claims the name of Christ, then it is absolutely the responsibility of the Christian community as a whole to monitor their doctrine and where heresy exists, not to simply point it out but to teach against it.
  
  Failure to stand for truth and doctrine is to allow heresy and confusion to create stumbling blocks for our fellow man. Unitarians with their refusal to accept Christ’s proclamation when He stated, “no man comes to the Father except by me”, are markedly not Christian. Mormons, where they teach that G-d was once just a man, created by another, higher god, are likewise not Christian and the error must be taught against.
  
  Heresy can not be tolerated; opposing heresy cannot become an excuse t
  
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- DissenterKnight
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 2:42pm
  Heresy can not be tolerated; opposing heresy cannot become an excuse to hate.
  
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- RealLiibertarian
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 2:51pm
  Dissenter- That is fine, as long as you are preaching to those who wish to hear it. When it it is made plain that your witnessing is not welcome, then freedom and respect for others’ beliefs dictates that you must desist. Far too many do not respect this line. They feel it is their ‘duty’ to turn people against their own beliefs, by any means necessary, whether that be by harassment or by legal or legislative means.
  
  Heresy exists only within your own ranks. For some one of another religion or denomination it just their dogma and none of your business. When I hear the heresy argument, combined with many of the hard line comments I see on this site, I fear that we progressing rapidly into the late 16th/early 17th century and the wars of religion that ripped Europe apart.
  
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- DissenterKnight
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 3:00pm
  @RealLiibertarian
  Anyone who studies the bible would agree with you with respect to preaching the Word to those beyond the church; where the Word is not welcomed, we are told in Matthew to ‘shake the dust from our feet” and leave them to their own; in the end, we do not have to answer for them. However, we shouldn’t confuse our witness with speech. The strongest witness any Christian has is unspoken; it exists in our actions.
  
  As to heresy, if you’d take a moment to reread my post, you’d see that I was speaking specifically, and explicitly, about fellow Christians, or at least those who claim Christ’s name.
  
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- E.Z. Las Vegas
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 3:11pm
  How is it that you have the freedom to rail against “Hard Core Christians”, yet in your book they have no right to express their opinion without “denying religious freedom?”
  Now, if someone actually tries to stop you from erecting your Festivus pole in your front yard, you have a complaint. If they point and laugh and stand on your (public) sidewalk in a burka, sari, cassock or holding a torah, quran, or bible and make fun of you, and you try to stop them, then YOU are the intolerant, anti-religous bigot.
  
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- mechjunk
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 3:15pm
  I guess if your pagan religion had what history has shown to be considered good morals it probably would be practiced and accepted by more. But since most pagan religions were ways (or excuses) for people to embrace their more degenerate desires and lusts, there is probably a reason why paganism is not practiced very often by many people.
  
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- Worriedboomer
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 3:16pm
  I for one would not object to seeing solstice decorations on the town green next to the nativity scene, if it means that we can keep the nativity scene there. In fact, am I wrong, or isn’t the Christmas tree a pagan symbol which has been adopted by Christians? And I think it’s a great idea to start a town meeting with a pagan benediction followed by a Christian prayer. Have you ever suggested it? All forms of religion can co-exist.The problem is when one is forced aside in favor of another. Let’s try for side by side decorations this Christmas/Solstice and see if it can’t be done. Great idea!
  
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- RealLiibertarian
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 3:17pm
  EZ- I never said they didn’t have a right to their comments or opinions. What I said was that they have no right to monopolise the public pulpit, to the exclusion of other faiths. Say or think what you want, I don’t care. Tell me that because I’m not Christian, I have no right to the same space on the green or at the town meeting, or pass laws that are in opposition to my creed and I will push back.
  
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- mechjunk
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 3:28pm
  @worriedboomer
  Yeah, I see that “co-exist” crap on the back of all the Subaru driving eco-nuts that are trying their best to close down our lands. Anyone who believes in the co-exist crap belongs in Europe where they have tried co-existing with Muslims. How’s that working out?
  
  You can have your pagan solstice ritual at town hall anytime, other than when we Christians are having our Nativity re-enactment. Sounds like the only problem here is making sure that the schedule of times don’t coincide. How’s that for co-existing?
  
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- pudssweetie
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 3:35pm
  @Dissenterknight, I respect the fact that you are a Christian as well as a Pastor, but in your comment, you made one major mistake. While you said that you Respect, Hindu’s, Buddhists, Muslim Religions and Satanists, yet in the same breath you were very quick to smear Mormons. If you, as a Pastor, are preaching to the people to respect others Religion, then you should be teaching that all Religions should be respected.
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 4:10pm
  @REAL, not to stand up for @DISSENTER but he “did” say he respected their “right” to practice their religion, not that he respected their religion, and he referenced Mormons in the context of heresy that Christians are encouraged to note and address. You must be a Mormon. Mormons are very sensitive when their beliefs are challenged.
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 4:11pm
  Oops, my reply was intended for @PUDS, not @REAL Mea Copa
  
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- Allan
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 4:33pm
  @dissenter, May I sugest to you that you waste less of your time and energy monitoring and preaching against what other people believe, and spend more time preaching what you do believe. Part of religious tollerence is to allow others the right to worship how and what they want. If you feel you have to preach against other’s beliefs, it implies that you do not have enough confidence in what you believe, for it to stand on its own merit.
  
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- Joey8
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 4:37pm
  @theother
  “You must be a Mormon. Mormons are very sensitive when their beliefs are challenged.”
  Oh, so that’s what you’re calling it, “challenged”. But when I “challenge” your unbiblical beliefs, you cry foul and claim it’s character assassination LOL!
  @Dissenter
  I’m puzzled that “pastors” spend so much time talking about other people’s religions rather than explaining their own beliefs. Kinda follows how most politicians work “Vote for me because the other guy sucks!”.
  Maybe the “real Christians” should spend more time studying what their religion teaches rather than worrying about what my religion believes. It puzzles me that we read the same Bible and the message you get is “go out and teach people why they are wrong”
  It’s no wonder why my religion is able to help so many people around the world, it’s because we don’t have classes on how to bash other religions and we don’t set up websites to tear other people’s faith down. That’s not where our focus is. We have enough confidence in the words of Christ to invite people to pray about it and ask God if it’s true, we don’t have to “prove” anything to anyone.
  Stay classy “pastors”!
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 4:46pm
  @ALLAN, is that why Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses show up at your door?
  
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- Joey8
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 5:01pm
  @theother
  I invite you to read my previous post
  We go door to door to preach the word of Christ, not to “challenge” other peoples belief. This is what Christ meant when he said “feed my sheep” (don’t think he meant “tell them what they are eating is not good for them”LOL!) Like I said, we have enough confidence in God’s promise to answer sincere prayer that we don’t need to argue and “challenge” people’s beliefs.
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 5:18pm
  JOEY8.Here we go again. Down your rabbit trails. Causing me to waste my time correcting your lies about me so that I don’t have time to point out the heretical problems with your religion and the fact that Mormons are not Christians. Your prophets teach that you are not Christians why are so many Mormons confused about that?
  
  If you are talking about the list of unBiblical “beliefs” that you dishonestly assigned to me, I already said those aren’t my beliefs. That was just another example of how intellectually dishonest Mormons will become to defend their faith. If Joseph Smith wouldn’t have told that first lie, he wouldn’t have had to keep telling them and consequently you wouldn’t look so much like a fool trying to defend them.
  
  So you can talk about “me” and my beliefs all you like but it won’t change the fact that Mormons, with their false christ, false gospel and false god, are not Christians. We know this by your own admission, your teachings, and the simple fact that you reject the teachings of historical Christianity as “an abomination.” You practice reformed Christianity, which is Mormonism and has no resemblance to historical Christianity, which you reject. According to your church, Christians are of the devil so why would you want to be one?
  
  If I offend you and your religion, then please stop knocking on our doors, calling yourself Christians and selling your Mormon snake oil as Christianity. I am offended by that.
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 5:25pm
  JOEY8 According to LDS.org, you don’t teach about the Jesus Christ that Christians know, you go door to door dragging Christians away from their salvation by selling them on Joseph Smith’s snake oil Jesus, who’s Blood Atonement only guarantees resurrection while your salvation is entirely up to your own works.
  
  http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=b79b27cd3f37b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1
  
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- Joey8
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 5:27pm
  @theother
  LOL you’re cranky today. Cheer up, it’s looking like we might have a heathen Mormon as President soon! You’re being extra sensitive today, maybe you need a break from the internet for a while. It’s fine for you to say someone’s faith isn’t biblical but when someone says yours isn’t, you start punching your keyboard and making the keys fly in rage. Chill out man. Try and understand that maybe your opinion is just that, YOUR opinion LOL! GOD IS LOVE!
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 5:43pm
  JOEY8, oh, I see you’re taking a nicer tone now that I’ve pointed out how desperate you are to sell your Joseph Smith snake oil.
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 5:47pm
  JOEY8 the beliefs you dishonestly assigned to me, and then said they are unBiblical, are not my beliefs.
  
  However, we do know that your beliefs are not Christian.
  
  http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=b79b27cd3f37b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1
  
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- Joey8
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 6:16pm
  @the other
  I know you’re upset with me for good reason. I ruined your whole “I’m here to support glenn beck even though I don’t agree with his religion” lie and inconveniently copied an earlier comment when you said “I’m only here to expose glenn’s lies on mormonism”. I’d be upset too if those were my plans and they were ruined. Now your backup plan is “oh, Mormons offend me and attack my character and hurt my feelings and lie about me, I’m a victim”. It’s highly entertaining.
  I guess I’m so intrigued because I’ve never understood why people have so much rage against a religion that doesn’t have anything to do with them. You talk like we knock on your door everyday. All you have to say is “not interested”. I’d like to see you have the courage to go out on the streets and do the same thing, but you’re obviously ashamed of your gospel (with good reason) and would rather hide behind the computer and trash others religions.
  Imagine how much good you could do if you focused on what Jesus taught rather than focusing on wrong you think other peoples faith is.
  I
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 6:55pm
  JOEY8 Awww, you poor little baby. Some Mormons like to spout off about their religion and then when their doctrines get challenged all we hear from them is whining about how everybody is bashing their religion. Baloney. When you’re not whining about being bashed, you’re busy bashing others and intentionally deceiving people with your straw man arguments, designed to distract from the fact that you don’t have the truth. Most of what you have said to me has been an attack on my character with rude and condescending remarks about my person. And you don’t know me from Adam. Is that how Mormons roll?
  
  You should take your own advise when you said: “Imagine how much good you could do if you focused on what Jesus taught rather than focusing on wrong you think other peoples faith is.”
  
  Teacher, teach thyself.
  
  Mormons started the argument when Smith insisted that the Bible and all of Christianity was corrupt and the gates of hell really had prevailed against Jesus’ Church, such that it and the Bible had become an evil abomination. Smith had to start his own church with his own gospel to correct the errors. And when someone like me shows up with the truth and exposes these lies, you can’t sell your Joseph Smith snake oil. So you plead “poor abused Mormon child” and don’t want to play anymore.
  
  Coward
  
  And yes, I am here to discuss, refute and correct lies about the Mormon Church. Do you have a problem with that?
  
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- Joey8
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 7:23pm
  Lol, so people in other stories are starting to call you ‘encinom’. I know you just joined the blaze, but that is not a compliment.
  I’m all for you sharing what you believe on here. It’s interesting to hear you say you don’t believe Jesus was resurrected with a body of flesh and bone but not explain where you get that. It’s also interesting when you tell people that the Bible proves all truth and that people shouldn’t bother asking God. My favorite is when you make fun of Mormons because they rely on the Holy Ghost to reveal truths rather than trusting you.
  I’d rather listen to Obama talk about his own beliefs on government rather than him talk about what he thinks Romney believes.
  Oh, and God spoke with Moses face to face, just like a man speaks with his friends
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 8:56pm
  JOEY8 the straw man pukes lies again because he is angry. A Gentile proved to him that he doesn’t understand his religion and didn’t have a clue that it teaches that he is not a Christian.
  
  And if people are calling me names behind my back, they are cowards just like you. Probably full of the same hatred and intolerance you have been taught to have for people who don’t think like you or believe as you do. Remember the “casting pearls before swine” comment you made about me? I haven’t forgotten. That says a lot about you and your religion.
  
  And I’m not going to chase your rabbits, because none of what you said about my beliefs, is true. You should realize by now that every time you taunt me, I just shift gears.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 9:06pm
  Oh, and your straw man argument that I believe the Bible doesn’t teach that Moses spoke face to face with God, is a blatant lie and you know it. How many times are you going to tell it? Don’t you realize that as a Mormon, if you repent and ask for forgiveness for a sin, then commit that same sin again, you cannot ever be forgiven for that same sin again?
  
  That’s because your Jesus did not pay for your sin, you must do that yourself.
  
  My argument is that Moses did not “see” God, because God is Spirit (and neither did Joseph Smith) not that he didn’t speak face to face with God, but that he didn’t “see” God. The Bible clearly teaches that man cannot see God and live.
  
  Smith saw his god because his god is not the God of the Bible, but a man of flesh and bones.
  
  Once you tell a lie, you have to keep telling lies. That must really suck for Mormons.
  
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- Lucy Larue
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 9:11pm
  REALLIBERTARIAN,
  Weary of individuals like you I am.
  I can think of many names for you that would be more apt. You would not be happy with them.
  You would not.
  “All men are small when the stars come out” REALLIBERTARIAN. That includes you.
  Think about it Jackaninny!
  
  Report this comment
- RealLiibertarian
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 9:33pm
  Was it someething I said, Lucy? LOL!
  Seriously, what are you taking issue with?
  
  Report this comment
- Lucy Larue
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 10:27pm
  REALLIBERTARIAN,
  
  Don’t be obtuse! Of course it was something you said. Jackaninny!You offend me because I have had too many visits to the third floor of Walter Reed. You offend me because I see firsthand what REAL Americans are willing to sacrifice so even an AS:$OLE like you can speak their mind.
  You offend me because you do not care. You are a moral relativist. You stand for nothing.
  
  Report this comment
- Allan
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 11:33pm
  @theother… It is allways interesting to observe these exchanges in a forum which offers appaernt anonymity and allows people to say pretty much whatever they want without consequences. How people express their views says a great deal more about them than what they say about thier “opponent”. You come across as an angry and insecure person who would probably not be saying the things you are saying if you were face to face with your opponents, for fear of having your butt kicked. You are allowing these Mormons and anyone else who does noy agree with you, to push your buttons and get you all riled up. In other words, they control you.
  
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- RealLiibertarian
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 11:36pm
  You are the one being obtuse, Lucy. I stand for individual freedom, that shall not be infringed by politicians, religions, pressure groups, or anyone else. If you have a problem with that freedom, including the freedom of religion to be something other than Christian, then say so. This country was founded on freedom. For years we kept progressing, adding to those freedoms. Now, over the last 20 years or so, we are backtracking. Apparently, people are scared of freedom, and don’t want to see us have it. Anything that somebody finds offensive is now fair game for lawsuits, legislation, or derogatory comment. Live and let live is a thing of the past, a thing to be reviled. Sad, really…..
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 12:58pm
  @ALLAN
  
  Nice try.
  
  LDS, when confronted with the truth, are taught to lie, distract and portray their detractors as miscreants. Some are good at it, others like JOEY8 just look like fools.
  
  JOEY8 is also a prime example of that brainwashed mentality. They are the ones who are controlled. Not me. I’m in control actually, and they see that and it really upsets them, as we can tell by the disgusting displays of secular humanism they exhibit in their zeal to sell the Joseph Smith snake oil, and portray all detractors as sub human and evil.
  
  I ran across the following yesterday. All LDS who are interested in the truth, if there is such a thing s an LDS interested in the truth, should read this…
  
  http://mormonisminvestigated.co.uk/
  
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- Arminius23
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 1:09pm
  @Joey8 Summary: “Most Pastors spend too much time explaining other religious beliefs and not explaining their own.” That’s because they don’t read or do not truly ponder what they read. We have a saying in the military called “Command Intent”. What I hate more than anything is a religious nut telling me they follow the bible legalistically and don’t look for the general idea of what God is saying. I’m sick and tired of fanaticism, supposedly Judaism, Christianity and Islam come from God yet some Jews take it as a reason to be racists, Christians take it so far to purge (kill) anyone that doesn’t believe what is mainstream belief (and that’s everyone else), Muslims are at war with everyone and practice deception as a main attack. Hindus and Buddhists are merciless in their persecutions but at least their practicing as they are taught. Forget religion, I will follow only what the Tanakh and B’rit Hadasha has to say because somewhere in those pages is the Command intent. Peace. Shalom, Salaam.
  
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floridareader
Posted on October 5, 2012 at 2:04pm
Of course Barack Hussein Obama failed. Not only he is anti-Christian, but also learn from Saul Alinsky and his Rules for Radicals. In the book Rules for Radicals:
“Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history (and who is to know where mythology leaves off and history begins — or which is which), the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom — Lucifer.”
— Saul Alinsky
http://www.westernjournalism.com/monica-crowley-alinsky-dedicated-book-to-lucifer-and-obama-taught-alinskys-philosophy/

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Niruba
Posted on October 5, 2012 at 1:54pm
God is left out of the conversation in socialist and communistic countries. Religion goes under ground.
Government becomes the almighty. Obama scares me and anytime I voice it I am called a racist. I would like a black president who supports freedom of religion and speech. I would like America to be what it was intended to be with free enterprise and the ability to make your dreams come true. I am so afraid Obama will win this election and have nothing to lose over the next four yrs.

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S-O-B-E-R
Posted on October 5, 2012 at 1:47pm
Hey, all. I know some guy who calls himself a “staunch conservative” who felt last election voting for Obama was like voting for the anti-Christ. He is Catholic. He says he “has to” vote for him this time because one faction of Catholics is saying that because Romney/Ryan have identified with Ayn Rand and Atlas Shrugged, they shouldn’t vote for them… My conclusion on this is that the Catholic Church wants Government to pay for the poor so they don’t have to, but what do I know?

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- NHwinter
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 2:34pm
  S-O-B-E-R – So you know “one” guy who doesn’t listen to Ryan very closely. Ryan liked the book but didn’t agree with its religious view. Did he miss that part of what Ryan said? Then you say your conclusion is the Catholic Church wants government to pay for the poor. The Catholic Church has done more for the poor over the decades than the government has. They started charities, hospital, homes, etc. in America long before government even had the idea to help the poor. A conclusion of yours without any basis.
  
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- Charybdis
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 2:43pm
  So lets’ see – this guy you know is now willing to vote for the anti-Christ over a fellow Catholic who just happens to like some of the things Ayn Rand wrote. Okay, got it!
  
  Report this comment
- S-O-B-E-R
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 3:53pm
  NH Winter: I thought I made it clear this was a theory and I appreciate your input. I am trying to come to truth. I made it clear it was anecdotal, one guy. He was told by his religous leaders that voting for Romney/Ryan is voting against his religious beliefs of charity. No, I don’t believe he even read the book or listened to Ryan. I just wanted to point out that there are “Catholics” out there that are being fed this. I guess I took it too far, and of course I see what the Catholic church has done over the years, but as a non-Catholic, I have questions. I’m sorry to bring them up, but the scandals the Church has faced are disturbing. Why was Ryan’s budget dissed by them a couple of years ago? Why did Dolan invite Obama to the Al Smith dinner? I appreciate kindness and love from others while educating me while I try to come to the truth of all this. God bless you.
  
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dickdastardly
Posted on October 5, 2012 at 1:28pm
Bully…I say Bully!

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GirlWithCurls
Posted on October 5, 2012 at 1:27pm
Love the scorecard. Once again I’m being shown up by my Catholic friends in the “organization” category. I think everyone could’ve guessed who failed religious freedom before reading this article though. I’ve been watching Obama’s lawsuits for four years. “So, Obama… what exactly HAVE you been doing for four years?” Oh nothing… Poaching Catholics (and anyone who disagrees with me)…. Removing religious freedom from the constitution… asserting myself in the form of executive orders…. apologizing for free speech…

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RepubliCorp
Posted on October 5, 2012 at 1:25pm
no kidding?

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teddrunk
Posted on October 5, 2012 at 1:23pm
Doesn’t matter. American Catholics are religious in name only, like American Jews. They’ll continue to support the baby killing, deviant loving Communist.

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- john654
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 1:41pm
  Actually, the Catholic Church has been infiltrated by Protestants like you!
  
  Report this comment
- chips1
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 1:45pm
  Hey!! Lucifer!!!! When did you get WiFi down there?
  
  Report this comment
- floridareader
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 1:49pm
  Speak for yourself, drunk Ted.
  
  Report this comment
- The Jewish Avenger
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 1:52pm
  Its actually Respect Life month for Catholics.
  
  Which Catholics are you reefering to? The real ones or the Chicago/Bostonian ones?
  
  Report this comment
- circleDwagons
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 2:12pm
  @Ted, type the Truth and u’ll hit a nerve. Just love Catholics that don’t know what the Church teaches or jews that have never been to Temple. Love, Liberty, and THE BIBLE
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 2:13pm
  It’s funny that people will trash talk the Catholic church while believing the book that the church compiled is perfect and at the same time, believing the creeds that the church invented.
  
  Report this comment
- teddrunk
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 2:21pm
  I must of hit a nerve. Fact, it was Catholics and Jews that put Obama in power. Fact, the Catholic Church still doesn’t excommunicate the worst of the baby killers. Fact, American Jews would trade Israel for the friendship of America’s elitist liberals.
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 5:29pm
  JOEY8, Still parroting the effects of your Mormon brainwashing I see. The problem is, what you say is not the truth. That’s a bad habit you have grown into. I’ve been praying for you all this time, but it’s up to you to at least TRY and find the truth, rather than just being a Momobot.
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 9:54pm
  @theother
  Oh I thought you were going to respond to what I said. What’s your take? Is the Catholic church God’s authority? Is the book they compiled in one of their councils true? Is their trinity doctrine that they made at their councils true? Can’t have it both ways. It would be nice if you could just make up whatever you wanted to from reading the Bible and be able to change it to fit what you wanted. I guess that’s one of the perks of being a ‘Bible Christian” and not claiming a religion. The Bible means whatever you want it to believe, like “face to face, as a man speaks with his friends” means that they don’t talk face to face like friends talk to each other. You should go to law school, you could make a lot of money interpreting laws like you do scripture lol.
  Troll test, you won’t respond to these questions
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 2:50pm
  JOEY8
  
  We’ve discussed these issues and I have answered you time and again. You keep asking the same straw man questions hoping the answers will change.
  
  This is just a ruse to hide the fact that you don’t have the truth. And because you follow the false prophet Joseph Smith. Why don’t you want to talk about that?
  
  The jesus and god he has duped you into worshiping are nothing more than idols. You can insult me all you like but that reality will never change for you.
  
  It must really suck to be you, having to sacrifice your honor for such a cause.
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 3:46pm
  @theotherthessalonian
  Forgive me for not understanding you. You said earlier there was never a falling away with the Catholic church, but then you also say they aren’t Christian according to some list of standards you invented. Can you make it clear to me then, why aren’t you a Catholic if theynever fell away? Or if they aren’t Christian and apostate, why do you put so much trust in the book compiled by and creeds formed from an apostate church?
  More inconvenient questions
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 4:17pm
  More ignorance, lies and straw men arguments, you mean.
  
  Again, I never said anything like what you said above. Go back and read it again, and when you quote me, “quote” me. You keep “translating” what I said and consequently compounding and mischaracterizing the essence of my arguments.
  
  And of course when you apply Mormon doublespeak it seems that I am saying something different. Lose the Mormon snake oil and your vision will become crystal clear.
  
  and while you’re at it, look here… mormonisminvestigated.co.uk
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 4:39pm
  @theotherthessalonian
  Not very good at defending your faith, maybe it’s because you spend so much time attacking other’s faith? Go sit down and think about what you believe, study the Bible with the intent on learning Christ’s word to help others’ not to incite anger like theJews in Thessalonica.
  And I commented on that website earlier. In comparison to other websites dedicated to trashing my religion, this is one if the more unimpressing sites. The guy is nice enough though, I met him once while I was a missionary in England, but he’d rather write his blog than talk with missionaries, and I don’t blame him. Our level of brainwashing is impressive lol
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 5:34pm
  JOEY8
  
  Wow, you’re finally right for once. I guess that proves that even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then.
  
  I could lighten up a little, but every time a JW or a Mormon senses weakness, they attack. In their case, with lies, and in yours, with personal attacks designed to take the discussion away from the facts. At least I don’t have to resort to dishonest tactics and make up lies about other people as you do, and have slanderously and maliciously done here. I don’t have to cast aspersion on others characters here for my arguments to have substance, I have facts instead of flimsy arguments. The truth of the Gospel speaks for itself, independent of anything I might say, I should add.
  
  And I don’t attack other people’s character needlessly as you do, nor their faith. I attack lies. If your faith is a lie, then it will seem like I’m attacking you.
  
  The UK web site does not attack your religion, it presents the truth about Smith and the BoM, BoA, as well as Smith’s false prophecies, a taste for underage girls and other people’s wives, which you perceive as an attack, because you simply will not accept those facts as truth. I predict you will continue to stumble and choke on Mormonism until the Holy Spirit enlightens you, and I pray that may happen soon, before you lead too many others astray with your aggressiveness.
  
  I’ve added you to my prayer list, so the rest is up to you and the Holy Spirit
  
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- Joey8
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 5:45pm
  @theotherthessalonian
  Let me get this straight, you parrot attacks on someone we refer to as a prophet of God, His mouthpiece, that he was a pervert and a pedophile, and you don’t think that’s attack.
  BUT, when someone writes a story that Jesus might have been married, you think that’s an attack on your faith.
  Jesus Christ had accusations against Him by the Pharisees and Sadducees, does that mean they were correct? Would it be important to consider the source when looking at these charges? What would be the honest thing to do?
  Imagine all the charges that were made against Peter, Paul, and other Apostles that came from enemies of the church. Because there were charges against them, does that make them guilty? Your claims of being honest don’t hold up so well considering these points.
  
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- Joey8
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 5:52pm
  @theotherthessalonian
  And I could take your preaching of another Jesus as an attack on Christianity and feign offense as you do. Let me make sure I quote you right
  I asked :”Are you telling me that it wasn’t a body of flesh and bone that they were touching? It wasn’t the same body that was on the cross and was laid in the tomb?”
  You answered: “No, it was not the same body, it was a glorified body.”
  Where did the prints on the hands and feet and the wound in his side come from if it wasn’t the same body? Why were the disciples able to feel the prints and why was Jesus able to eat with them if it wasn’t the same body of flesh and bone. It was to show them that He wasn’t a spirit, that it was HIM, His same body, the one that was NOT in the tomb anymore.
  That is the Jesus we claim, the one that taught that bodies would rise from the grave after His resurrection, the SAME bodies of flesh and bone, GLORIFIED bodies of flesh and bone, not glorified spirits.
  “And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose”
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 6:09pm
  @JOEY8
  
  Sigh
  
  Yu said: “Let me get this straight, you parrot attacks on someone we refer to as a prophet of God, His mouthpiece, that he was a pervert and a pedophile, and you don‘t think that’s attack.
  
  Learned a new word eh? Parrot? LoL
  
  No, because it is the truth and the truth has no agenda.
  
  JOEY8: “BUT, when someone writes a story that Jesus might have been married, you think that’s an attack on your faith.”
  
  Yes, because it is not true.
  
  JOEY8 “Jesus Christ had accusations against Him by the Pharisees and Sadducees, does that mean they were correct?
  
  Only if they are true. Why do you struggle so with the definition of the truth?
  
  JOEY8 “Would it be important to consider the source when looking at these charges? What would be the honest thing to do?
  
  Determine if they are true? If true, accept them. If not, reject them. Again, why is the truth so difficult for you?
  
  JOEY8 “Imagine all the charges that were made against Peter, Paul, and other Apostles that came from enemies of the church. Because there were charges against them, does that make them guilty?
  
  Not if they are NOT TRUE. LoL This is amazing! What is wrong with the truth?
  
  JOEY8 “Your claims of being honest don’t hold up so well considering these points.”
  
  What? LoL My claims are the truth. All the examples you gave above are lies. Why do you struggle so with the truth?
  
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- Joey8
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 6:34pm
  @theotherthessalonian
  The point you missed is that in all of these cases, everyone thinks they have the truth. Just because you want to be right, doesn’t make what you say true.
  So what makes what you claim true and what makes what I claim true. We can’t both be right can we? You’re source of truth for the character of Joseph Smith are websites that are hostile against him and his religion. I don’t think you understand what bias means, and you keep saying “the truth has no agenda” followed by linking a website that has a clear bias against Mormons LOL.
  What is the standard of truth? You would answer “the Bible”, which is NOT true. God is the standard of truth, and we are told to come to Him in prayer when we lack wisdom, not to read the Bible. The Bible should teach a man to pray, not replace prayer.
  In the case of Joseph Smith’s character, i’ll refer again to the attacks and charges against early apostles by men who HAD an agenda against the religion they taught. Those charges were true to them just as enemies of Joseph Smith made charges that were true to them.
  Go to law school, the way you interpret what is true and what is a good source can make you lots of money in liberal courts. Just because you claim something is true does not make it true. Sorry Obama, I mean theotherthessalonian
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 7:07pm
  JOEY8
  
  I’m right because what I say is true. LoL You’re wrong because pretty much everything you say is a lie.
  
  You keep claiming bias, but regardless of bias, it’s still the truth.
  
  And no, the Bible is the standard of Truth, because you cannot know God independent of the Bible. That burning in your bosom that told you it was ok to believe the lie, as with any subjective feeling, does not “prove” anything. Watch the video here..
  
  mormonisminvestigated.co.uk
  
  LoL No, the charges weren’t true “just to them.” The truth is the truth and Joseph Smith is a liar. A false prophet and a womanizer.
  
  What an immature child you are. I only endure your most uncharitable garbage because it gives me a reason to post and continue to expose both Smith and you for the snake oil salesmen that you are. Thank you again.
  
  I don’t need to go to law school for the truth. You’re looking in the wrong place. The truth about Smith is right there for you to see in Deut 18.
  
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- Joey8
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 9:30pm
  @theotherthessalonian
  ” because you cannot know God independent of the Bible.”
  LOL, so how did people know God before the Bible, nice one there pal LOL. That is a bigger fail than your “not the same body” crap. You can’t know God without the Bible? Where do you come up with that garbage? An 8 yr old boy in China trying to pray because he heard there might be a God knows more about God than you ever will with all of your Bible reading.
  Where in your Bible does it say “and God will send the Bible, and it will teach you all things”. That is the Holy Ghost’s job and the Holy Ghost is sent from God regardless of whether the person reads the Bible. Man, you and your “Bible Christian” garbage spreading this kind of filth. What you are really saying is that people can’t come to God unless they come through you and your true interpretation of the Bible first. You really overdid it there, this will be a gem to share when you try this again later. Wow, God is not the authority on truth, the Bible is, wow! And I don’t think you speak for any other Christian on the earth, so this is all you.
  So, during the medieval era, people trying to follow God without access to a Bible didn’t know Him right? Their prayers weren’t answered ever? Or anybody in the history of man before the Bible, God never heard them.
  
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progressiveslayer
Posted on October 5, 2012 at 1:22pm
Big shocker with this story huh? The Marxist heathen received an F on the religious freedom scorecard,who saw this coming? Barrack Hussein Obama claims to be Christian lol must of learned all about Christianity from the madrassas in Indonesia he attended as a child. All Marxist’s are atheists and that’s Barry is a Godless heathen.

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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 1:41pm
  Although I agree with the premise of the article, I personally don’t think the Catholic Church has the right to set the standard for who is a Christian and who is not, anymore than Mormons or Jehovah’s Witnesses have. Especially since all three of those religions mutually exclude each other from being Christians, each by claiming to be the only true Christian Church, and each claiming their own doctrines/traditions supersede the teachings of the Bible, therefore effectively eliminating themselves as true Christians.
  
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- Joey8
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 2:10pm
  @theother
  So where do you get the right to say who is a “true Christian”, especially considering your belief in a different Jesus than the one we read about in the Bible (wasn’t resurrected with a body of flesh and bone)?
  If the Catholic church isn’t the “true Christian” church, then they must’ve fallen away at some point since they were the ones that started it all. You want to say they aren’t the true church, but you have no problem in reading the book they compiled and believing in the creeds that they started. So you believe the creeds and a book from an apostate church? (I also thought you claimed earlier that there wasn’t a ‘falling away’?)
  If the Catholic church is the original church set up by Apostles (Peter being the first Pope), then all other break-offs are apostate, and have no authority. If the Catholic church fell away and became apostate, then all other break-offs are just that, break-offs from an apostate church with no authority. When God’s people fell away in the past, the only way to restore truths and doctrines was by sending a prophet (Moses to the apostate children of Israel).
  So, either the Catholic church has God’s authority, or they lost it. If they lost it, how does anyone that broke off have God’s authority? Have any of them claimed God’s authority to organize His church?
  I’ll tell you how I define a “true Christian”:
  “no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.”
  “Love thy neighbor”
  “If ye love me,
  
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- DissenterKnight
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 2:53pm
  The Catholic Church claims their rights based on Peter’s role; though scholars would argue that when Christ addressed Peter as the rock on which He would build the church, Christ was in fact applauding Peter’s zeal for and devotion to the faith. Christ’s church is catholic (little c, meaning universal) not Catholic (big C, meaning the Pope).
  
  Beyond that, the Eastern Orthodox Church has roots closer to the Apostles as an aggregate than does the Roman Catholic Church. Neither is either more or less Christian than the other.
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 3:00pm
  Good grief, why don’t you get a girlfriend instead of following me around trying to hump my leg?
  
  Don’t you realize that you are just making things worse for your religion with these lying tactics? You admit to being LDS so everyone can see the example you set, and it’s not a very good one if you ask me.
  
  What you said above are blatant lies. Clear mischaracterizations of my position on literally every point. And you know that because we have had these conversations already. Like the liberals who continue to mis quote and mischaracterize Romney’s position on taxes, this only demonstrates how desperate you are to prove what you want to be true, at any cost. Even the truth. That doesn’t look very good for Mormons in general. Does your Bishop know you’re out here on your own like this? I’m sure he’s ripping his hair out if he does.
  
  I realize you are just trying to push my buttons, that’s why I don’t respond to you, not because I can’t answer your questions, in fact I already have, but because this is a game to you the truth has nothing to do with reality. It’s all about winning, but you have to lie to do that.
  
  Mormon doctrine insists that LDS are not Christians, but you don’t want people to know that, any more than you willingly admit that Smith uttered false prophecies. Call that what you like. I call it lying.
  
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- pudssweetie
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 3:15pm
  @THEOTHER, I am not Catholic but know enough that it is the oldest Religion in this world. Having a Religion or belonging to a Church is not what makes a person a Christian. Rather it is the person who reads the Bible, follows the Commandments and live their lives according to what the Bible teaches is what makes them a Christian. Church is there to gather and pray with others, to learn and to reaffirm your belief.
  
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- Joey8
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 4:02pm
  @theother
  LOL so what you’re telling me is that you don’t like other people telling you what you believe? LOLOL! Hopefully you’ve learned something here.
  Anyways, the point I was making is that you are in no position to:
  a) speak on behalf of all Christians
  b) judge who is and who isn’t a “true Christian”
  A Christian isn’t just someone that believes in Jesus, but someone that strives to follow His teachings and His example. I don’t think that slandering others beliefs falls under that, and you’ve shown that is the only thing you are capable of doing.
  Anyone that attempts to honestly follow Jesus is a brother in Christ to me, regardless of religion they belong to or the Bible version they read. To you, anyone that doesn’t believe in YOUR version of Jesus is an enemy and must be put down with lies and slandering.
  Like I put up before, nobody can say Jesus is Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. And instead of saying Jesus is Lord, all you can say is “your Jesus isn’t my Jesus”.
  Sincerely, Joey8
  P.S. how many keyboards do you go through in a day? With all the crying you do, I figure your tears are shorting it out.
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 4:05pm
  @PUDS, not to correct you but I think Hinduism is considered to be the oldest organized religion.
  
  But I agree, religion is not what makes a person a Christian, and in fact having “religion” can be a problem.
  
  I would define Christianity as an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ as recorded in the Canonical Gospels and the New Testament Letters. A Christian is one who adheres to those teachings alone.
  
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- Joey8
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 4:26pm
  @theother
  ” A Christian is one who adheres to those teachings alone.”
  If, as you say, all you need is to believe in Christ and nothing else, then wouldn’t a Christian to you be someone that believes in Christ, regardless of their works? I know you rail on Mormons because we teach that you have to follow Christ, not just believe in Him, but wouldn’t your definition of what a Christian is be based off of that?
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 4:29pm
  JOEY8, you just can’t stop humping my leg can you. So be it. If you insist on making a fool of yourself, no problem. I’ll help you point that out for everyone if you insist.
  
  You can spew lies about my person and my beliefs if you like, as you have done and continue to do, but you will have to answer for that one day. So suit yourself.
  
  But you can’t lie about what Mormonism teaches here, because I can post the facts that support my arguments, right from the LDS web site, which insists that the Mormon Jesus, God and Gospels are different than those of Christianity.
  
  Just because you plagiarizer Christianity and hang the name “Jesus Christ” on one of your idols, does not make you Christians.
  
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- Joey8
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 4:38pm
  @theother
  and your answer was………
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 5:32pm
  .. that Mormons are not Christians.
  
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- Joey8
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 10:00pm
  We definitely aren’t “theother’s” kind of Christian. We believe in a resurrected Jesus with a body of flesh and bone, not an invisible spirit of nothingness, but one that sat and ate with His disciples. We also believe in a God that speaks with man face to face, like a man speaks with his friends. You can keep your Jesus, the one you made up with your interpretation of the Bible. I’ll stick with a foundation of Prophets and Apostles, with Jesus being the cornerstone.
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 6:44pm
  JOEY8
  
  We just keep going over the same things, over and over and over. I realize that is your tactic, hoping people will get tired of the same drivel and stop reading, and not see the truth about the womanizing false prophet Joseph Smith.
  
  But every time I have to correct the lies you make about me, I will also hammer you with the truth about Joseph Smith. So go ahead and keep it up. I love a captive audience, and I love exposing Smith for the womanizing false prophet that he is.
  
  I think your twisted sense of logic, tells you that you must either promote a lie or say something bad about me or my beliefs, every time I expose the truth about Smith. That’s very immature Joey, and intellectually dishonest.
  
  I’ve said time and again that Jesus has a glorified “body,” and it’s silly to argue that I don’t believe the Bible, or when it says the Apostles touched Jesus’ Glorified Body and observed Him eating a piece of fruit. I don’t deny that, so stop saying that I do. Notice I jump out of the “confusion” box every time you try to put me in there?
  
  What I do deny is that Jesus’ Glorified Body was a body of flesh and bone in the same sense that Smith taught. The Bible does not teach about that jesus.
  
  So I will keep the Jesus described in the Bible and you can have the false jesus and idol that Joseph Smith describes. No contest.
  
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- Joey8
  Posted on October 7, 2012 at 9:41pm
  @theother
  See how convenient it is for you to be a “bible christian”? You can change what you believe, except for the fact that you wrote it earlier. You said Jesus has a glorified body that is a spirit. you also said that the Father is a spirit and nobody can see Him because He is invisible. But wait, Jesus wasn’t invisible when He went to His disciples? So you’re telling me that Moses could see God because you can see spirits? And Joseph Smith could’ve seen Jesus because He had a visible spirit body? Then you’d admit that Joseph could’ve felt Jesus since He had a spirit body that could be felt. LOL x 10 this is great. I wish I could believe like you do, just change it up whenever. At least my beliefs are written down for people to see.
  Ladies and gentleman, I present the jesus of theotherthessalonian:
  A visible, invisible glorified body that is a spirit that can be felt and can eat, and has the same prints and marks as the body of flesh and bone, but IS NOT the same body that was in the tomb, just a spirit that looks like the body, and the body in the tomb was just thrown in the closet because it wasn’t needed.
  LOLOL, what’s the next topic we can cover, this stuff is highly entertaining
  
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RJJinGadsden
Posted on October 5, 2012 at 1:21pm
Well, actually he does promote Islam as a peaceful and harmonious religion. Does that count?

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- progressiveslayer
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 1:28pm
  Only if they’re raping and murdering our ambassador and CIA operatives.
  
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- CatB
  Posted on October 5, 2012 at 1:39pm
  One trick Marxist …. only Musims should have freedom .. and that includes killing all others.
  
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RJJinGadsden
Posted on October 5, 2012 at 1:20pm
Gee, who else would we think?

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cubber
Posted on October 5, 2012 at 1:19pm
Surprise. Surprise. Surprise.

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