CEO Tells Employees He’ll Have to Fire Them if President Obama’s Re-elected
David Siegel, founder and CEO of Westgate Resorts, a Florida-based real estate and time share company, on Monday told employees in an email that he “will have no choice but to reduce the size of [the] company” if President Barack Obama is re-elected and raises taxes.
But before we go any further, it’s probably worth mentioning the fact that Siegel, who is also the subject of the documentary “The Queen of Versailles,” is a staunch Republican. In fact, he claims he helped sway the 2000 election in George W. Bush’s favor by making sure his conservative employees were all registered to vote.
Nevertheless, and despite his recent claim that business is booming, Seigel in a statement to Gawker reiterated his assertion that a second term for President Obama would mean layoffs for Westgate.
Here’s some of the authenticated email:
Subject: Message from David Siegel
Date:Mon, 08 Oct 2012 13:58:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: [David Siegel]
To: [All employees]To All My Valued Employees,
As most of you know our company, Westgate Resorts, has continued to succeed in spite of a very dismal economy. There is no question that the economy has changed for the worse and we have not seen any improvement over the past four years. In spite of all of the challenges we have faced, the good news is this: The economy doesn’t currently pose a threat to your job. What does threaten your job however, is another 4 years of the same Presidential administration. Of course, as your employer, I can’t tell you whom to vote for, and I certainly wouldn’t interfere with your right to vote for whomever you choose. In fact, I encourage you to vote for whomever you think will serve your interests the best.
However, let me share a few facts that might help you decide what is in your best interest.The current administration and members of the press have perpetuated an environment that casts employers against employees. They want you to believe that we live in a class system where the rich get richer, the poor get poorer. They label us the “1%” and imply that we are somehow immune to the challenges that face our country. This could not be further from the truth. Sure, you may have heard about the big home that I’m building. I’m sure many people think that I live a privileged life. However, what you don’t see or hear is the true story behind any success that I have achieved.
I started this company over 42 years ago. At that time, I lived in a very modest home. I converted my garage into an office so I could put forth 100% effort into building a company, which by the way, would eventually employ you. We didn’t eat in fancy restaurants or take expensive vacations because every dollar I made went back into this company. I drove an old used car, and often times, I stayed home on weekends, while my friends went out drinking and partying. In fact, I was married to my business — hard work, discipline, and sacrifice. Meanwhile, many of my friends got regular jobs. They worked 40 hours a week and made a nice income, and they spent every dime they earned. They drove flashy cars and lived in expensive homes and wore fancy designer clothes. My friends refinanced their mortgages and lived a life of luxury. I, however, did not. I put my time, my money, and my life into this business —-with a vision that eventually, some day, I too, will be able to afford to buy whatever I wanted. Even to this day, every dime I earn goes back into this company. Over the past four years I have had to stop building my dream house, cut back on all of my expenses, and take my kids out of private schools simply to keep this company strong and to keep you employed.
Just think about this – most of you arrive at work in the morning and leave that afternoon and the rest of your time is yours to do as you please. But not me- there is no “off” button for me. When you leave the office, you are done and you have a weekend all to yourself. I unfortunately do not have that freedom. I eat, live, and breathe this company every minute of the day, every day of the week. There is no rest. There is no weekend. There is no happy hour. I know many of you work hard and do a great job, but I’m the one who has to sign every check, pay every expense, and make sure that this company continues to succeed. Unfortunately, what most people see is the nice house and the lavish lifestyle. What the press certainly does not want you to see, is the true story of the hard work and sacrifices I’ve made.
Now, the economy is falling apart and people like me who made all the right decisions and invested in themselves are being forced to bail out all the people who didn’t. The people that overspent their paychecks suddenly feel entitled to the same luxuries that I earned and sacrificed 42 years of my life for. Yes, business ownership has its benefits, but the price I’ve paid is steep and not without wounds. Unfortunately, the costs of running a business have gotten out of control, and let me tell you why: We are being taxed to death and the government thinks we don’t pay enough. We pay state taxes, federal taxes, property taxes, sales and use taxes, payroll taxes, workers compensation taxes and unemployment taxes. I even have to hire an entire department to manage all these taxes. The question I have is this: Who is really stimulating the economy? Is it the Government that wants to take money from those who have earned it and give it to those who have not, or is it people like me who built a company out of his garage and directly employs over 7000 people and hosts over 3 million people per year with a great vacation?
Obviously, our present government believes that taking my money is the right economic stimulus for this country. The fact is, if I deducted 50% of your paycheck you’d quit and you wouldn’t work here. I mean, why should you? Who wants to get rewarded only 50% of their hard work? Well, that’s what happens to me.
Here is what most people don’t understand and the press and our Government has chosen to ignore – to stimulate the economy you need to stimulate what runs the economy. Instead of raising my taxes and depositing that money into the Washington black-hole, let me spend it on growing the company, hire more employees, and generate substantial economic growth. My employees will enjoy the wealth of that tax cut in the form of promotions and better salaries. But that is not what our current Government wants you to believe. They want you to believe that it somehow makes sense to take more from those who create wealth and give it to those who do not, and somehow our economy will improve. They don’t want you to know that the “1%”, as they like to label us, pay more than 31% of all the taxes in this country. Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, “democracy” will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.”
Business is at the heart of America and always has been. To restart it, you must stimulate business, not kill it. However, the power brokers in Washington believe redistributing wealth is the essential driver of the American economic engine. Nothing could be further from the truth and this is the type of change they want.
So where am I going with all this? It’s quite simple. If any new taxes are levied on me, or my company, as our current President plans, I will have no choice but to reduce the size of this company. Rather than grow this company I will be forced to cut back. This means fewer jobs, less benefits and certainly less opportunity for everyone.
[...]Signed, your boss,
David Siegel
To read Siegel’s entire letter, click here.
One last thing: If this email looks familiar to you, that’s because it’s based on a widely-circulated 2008 chain letter.
“I did use the [chain] letter that had circulated before as a guideline, but I changed it [to fit my circumstances],” Siegel told Gawker. “It speaks the truth and it gives [employees] something to think about when they go to the polls.”
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(H/T: NewsBusters)
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Comments (100)
Cosmos102
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 10:37pmWhat’s news is that a Republican employer is doing this. Unions do this kind of thing all the time to make employees vote Democrat.
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CatB
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 10:57pmYes .. and today Olive Garden (and their others restuarants like Red Lobster etc) are going to cut back the full time employees to part time … to avoid paying Obamacare …. the BIGGEST tax increase EVER and controls your whole life .. and death. I wonder if people will be able to survive in a recession (depression) and having hours cut even more.
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Gold Coin & Economic News
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 11:15pmWell, maybe Obama won’t be reelected and this will be his new job:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=120314444786376
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soybomb315_II
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 11:51pmWhat is Siegel smoking? Is he under the impression that republicans will cut spending, reduce the deficit, or repeal Obamacare? None of them will happen. Have you seen Siegel’s wife? Something tells me he is not a good guy
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Exrepublisheep
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 1:17amIt’s illegal for an employer to tell their workers who to vote for, as you all know.
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damon_k
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 5:31amIf Obama is re-elected this is going to be a daily occurrence. He won’t even have to give lip-service to creating jobs or improving the economy. Read more insights at: http://smallcraftadvisorychronicles.blogspot.com/
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FROG_24_7
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 10:06amAgreed. Even as a Substitute Teacher, I was told how to vote and to tell others how to vote at a Mandatory meeting.
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Fubared
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 11:02amTofu
Can we judge you by your partner and why are Paulbots so curious about what other people are smoking? The old grass is always greener thingy? He could be the sharing type, never hurts to ask huh?
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turkey13
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 11:10amMy 3 sons started their construction Company 5 years ago without the help of government. For the first 2 years they worked 60 hr work weeks for $200.00 a week and lived off their wives pay checks. Every penny they made went back into the Co. They now own all their trucks and equipment and built a new office and yard to store all and work on it. They have all the business they can handel (Non-Union) and could get bigger but have to stay under 25 employees or provide insurence which would then force them to cut pay. They hire men with families and a wife that has insurence. DOT controls the fuel you buy and now are forceing my sons to takes samples from each truck and send to a lab at their expense to ck for water that would clog injectors and then fill out government paperwork. Any one who has had to replace a $500.00 injector takes care of their fuel but what is DOT doing now that my sons are doing their jobs?
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dogdr
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 12:22pmPoor, poor billionaires. They are suffering so much in this economy. The DJIA is at record highs, corporate profits arfe at record highs, corporate taxes are at the lowest since the 1950′s and now we want them to actually pay their employees and cover health insurance as if they actually care about their employees (the ones who helped them get fabulously wealthy). How is this guy supposed to live. He own the largest private residence in the US, in addition to his other homes, cars…… Then evil Obama tells him he has to pay his employees a living wage and provide benefits for them. I would just shut everything down if I were him. No wait, no I wouldn’t. I own a business and I work my *ss off but can sleep at night because I take care of my employees, care about them and pay my fair share of taxes. I am not a billionaire so I don’t get to put my money overseas or take advantage of all the other tax avoidance schemes these guys do. In my entire lifetime I won’t make as much as this guy does in a day and he is the one complaining? I will put my work ethic up against this guy any day of the week. Where are MY tax breaks? Suck it up buddy. You didn’t do it all by yourself and I can’t feel sorry for you for being forced to be part of a community and helping others. I’m sorry if you will have to sell one of your summer vacation homes so you can pay your employees a working wage or pay taxes at the same rate as me. Life is tough.
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Walkabout
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 1:21pmExrepublisheep
It’s illegal for an employer to tell their workers who to vote for, as you all know.
***
He did not. He simply forecasted the future. Operating costs would be higher & revenues would be down; therefore he would look to contain costs. Are you argueing costs would be the same or lower? Are you argueing that people who normally go to resorts will have mre money & therefore will go to resorts more often or just as often?
What exactly was the O-boy administration doing? It was illegally telling defense contractors to break the law & not send out pink slips or warn of potential pinkslips. The budget deal requyires defesne to take 50% of the cuts. Are you actually going to tell everyone on this site that that would not cause employees at defense contractors to be layed off?
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FaithfulCitizen
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 1:30pmI worked for Westgate for 3 years, and I can tell you a few things about him and his company.
Westgate Resorts is privately held. Siegel is therefore within his rights to do with his company what he wants. As such, he used to send political emails from time to time (especially around election time). Most times it was “please vote for these people – they are friends of our business/industry”.
I don’t think the problem is so much what he wrote, whether it is correct, or whether he has a right to send this stuff to his employees. I think the bigger problem is: he has zero credibility!
He was known to be a cheap-@ss boss who was not exactly loveable to begin with and lived an extravagant lifestyle – this was compounded when he laid-off 80% of his company as soon as his assets were threatened by the credit crisis (Oct 2008). (Have you seen the trailer for “Queen of Versailles”?)
His letter to the employees does not exactly help his cause (assuming his cause is to get Romney elected), because Siegel is the embodiment (and epitome) of every “nasty, greedy businessman” slur that’s been hurled against Romney. If he really wanted Romney to get elected, he should have kept his mouth shut and let someone familiar with ethics speak instead.
Just sayin’…
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soybomb315_II
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 6:34pmnice post faithful. it is great when reasonable people can cut through the clatter
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Exrepublisheep
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 8:40pmWALKABOUT. I am arguing that telling employees who to vote for is illegal. Using republispeak doesn’t fool anyone. AND…Why do you keep posting connections between Obama and me? I’m not a fan. Yes, he’s playing a game with the Military complex. O.K.?
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dmerwin
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 8:42pmWell that’s one way to “rock the vote”.
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Centurian
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 10:26pmHey, pinhead…err….CATPBJ…
Are you an idiot, or what? Do you honestly believe that people who consider themselves Republican or vote Republican want to see the elderly die and children starve? You are a moron if you think so.
Get your info straight before posting your stupidity for the whole world to see.
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rawmilker
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 12:12amYes CATPBJ is an idiot, a useful one at that!
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mtcountrygrl
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 1:31amThey always say this when conservatives want to cut and reform welfare programs. But you see there is a difference between helping the truly needed and enabling the lazy. We understand that. Welfare programs should come with all kinds of strings attached, to start moving you off them before you’re even on them. I think before you receive any assistance at all you should have to bring your entire family budget in to a financial planner. I mean should you really be getting food stamps if you are still using a $300 smart phone plan and have cable with all the channels. Maybe even a list of assets. Is it too much to ask people to sell somethings before they get a hand out? My family believes that taking money from the government is immoral so at the end of 2009 when it hit us big time, my husband got a night job, we sold some of our things on ebay, we increased our insurance deductables, we canceled our health insurance and cable and we scaled down our telephone plan. And you know what all our bills got paid and groceries in the fridge. THAT IS HOW YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO DO IT!
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PIGSWILLNEVERFLY
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 10:25pmEvery employer in America should send out a letter like this.
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mtcountrygrl
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 1:31amwe told our empoyees. Obama wins we are closing the business.
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1Archer4U
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 3:39amI absolutely agree. Time for the two year olds to get a spanking for running out into the street a SECOND time!
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Individualism
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 10:22pmProbably a lie so he can get an increase salary for more money saved. hopefully the working folks “fire” him
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13th Imam
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 10:31pmJust shut down the business
As Nancy P says, unemployment is a great stimulus to the economy. DEMOCRATS, don’t you just love their logic?
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jman-6
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 11:41pmYou can’t fire the owner there genius!…jeesh it takes all kinds!
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Flag-Man
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 12:43amIt is easy to see you have never owned your own business
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1Archer4U
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 3:36amHumm, let me guess. You’re either high, or retarded; perhaps both.
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Fubared
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 2:50pmIndy workers of the world unite? Yep, drugs. Windy, you actually hold a job?
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coyote1hell
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 10:11pmYou Can’t Lose Bigger Tan OH”Bammer…That’s al…
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better red than dead
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 10:08pm“Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, ‘democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.’”
Fun fact: Thomas Jefferson never said this.
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3Bigdogs
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 11:27pmFun fact….I’m a Thomas Jefferson fan…I have never heard that quote…
I have read this one:
“Honesty is the first chapter of the book wisdom.â€
― Thomas Jefferson
I have also read this one:
“The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.â€
― Thomas Jefferson
And my all time favorite:
“My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.â€
― Thomas Jefferson
I could go on for days…Like I said, I’m a fan, and I have never seen the quote you published…
I’m not from Missouri, but show me this quote, and it disclaimer…
Hope I don’t hear crickets…
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Wichita1
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 11:30pmA wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circlue of our felicities.
Thomas Jefferson
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3Bigdogs
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 11:58pmYep…Just knew I’d hear crickets…
I have to work in the a.m…So i can’t listen to silence anymore…I’ll just leave you with this:
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. – Thomas Jefferson
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Flag-Man
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 12:40amDoesn’t matter who said it. It is a true fact
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bigtex40
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 8:26amcall those at the Monticello foundation liars. here is the quote and the attribution to Jefferson. sorry to interrupt your cricket serenade.
http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/democracy-will-cease-to-exist-quotation
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soybomb315_II
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 10:08pmthis guy is a perfect example of someone who is duped into thinking republicans are the white knights
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13th Imam
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 10:19pmWhen Tofu gets rancid, it stinks to high heaven.
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Centurian
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 10:27pmNo, I don’t think they’re White Knights….
But I do know they’re a whole sight better than the Democrat Black Turds…
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soybomb315_II
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 10:44pm@13th
Politicians by another name is not good enough to bring us out of the mess we are currently in. Some day you will realize that we are not screwed because of the democrats. We are screwed because of both parties
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Fubared
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 11:28amTofu
You are partially correct for a change. So…lets all get stoned and cry for Paul/Johnson/Barr while the fire spreads? 2 options if you discount the pity party part for Paul. Is he a boxer or g-string guy by the way? Trying to cheer up windy, resme, and angry-the three stoned Paul dwarves.
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Walkabout
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 1:26pmMight be true of him, but not of the rank & file. You will see increasing Tea Party activism & more interest in the Conservative & libertarian parties.
What do you know of this guy? Just this story?
Seeing as how the some in government want to sign treaties to such as the Law of the Sea Treaty, Global Warming treaties & several others, everyone in the U.S. is going to be an activist. Going to be hard to be a poltician & operate in the old way.
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jimbo_from_suwanee
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 10:06pmAtlas Shrugged in real life.
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HKS
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 10:06pmTip of the iceberg, one would have to be into major league abuse to even want to have a business here. We’re pretty much there now. Most business is a dog fight just to keep the doors open and Obama is slamming those doors.
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Tobytheone
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 10:03pmwhats sad there will be more business doing the same
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Master.Debater
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 6:46am99.9% of business owners are facing the same pressures to cut back but don’t write an email explaining it. They will just act.
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gemstate01
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 10:01pmLook at what the owners of Red Lobster and the Olive Garden are doing. We are screwed!!!
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Wdawg
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 9:59pmI remember parts of this letter from 2008:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/valuedemployees.asp
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CATPBJ
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 9:56pmAll of you beckster sheeple should quit their jobs when Obama wins 4 more years. That will increase the amount of people on food stamps and unemployment which is what the GOP wants while a Democrat is in the White House. Since Obama is going to win this election because the best the GOP could do is find a pathological liar in Willard Romney to run for office, all of you sheeple who bury their heads in the sands of Faux News had better make plans for your future unemployment.
This CEO of Westgate Resorts is a bonafide idiot. He admits on one hand that business is doing well however he says that if Obama wins reelection he will have to fire people. Does he have a crystal ball? Does he know something that the rest of the world does not know? I think he had better adjust the aluminum on his tinfoil hat so that the voices in his head come in clearer….
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MODEL82A1
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 10:09pmCATPBJ, The Daily Kos is missing an imbecile Obama drone, better get back over there.
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13th Imam
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 10:23pmNo budget for four years, it’s the GOP’s fault
8+ % unemployment , it’s the GOP’s fault
Double the foodstamp Takers, it’s the GOP’s fault
Downgrade our credit rating, it’s the GOP’s fault
Do you dolt’s take credit for any problems? Ever?
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Ralphy159
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 5:08pmTypical liberal changing words to try and make a bigger point…He never said he would “fire” anyone, he would lay them off…big difference.
As to the taxes going up it is already happening and come Jan 1 it will increase dramatically even on you due mainly to obummercare. you obviously aren’t paying attention or don’t want to because then you would have to admit the err of your ways voting for the worst president ever elected.
time to go back and watch MSNBC and get all tooled up again so you can com ehere tomorrow and give us all of your lies from o-camp
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Tri-ox
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 9:43pmThis is the very ugly truth – and Siegel is brave to speak it – BUT, he is not alone in his understanding that a second obama term will mean the end of MANY American businesses as we know them and will lead to massive layoffs and cutbacks across America.
WE CANNOT AFFORD a second obama term.
If WE are to survive as a nation – obama must be removed from power.
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Cemoto78
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 10:02pmNo more Obama or progressives in the government. They want to control everything at your expense. We need change, big change, and that means people in government whom believe in the founding principles of this country. No more enslavement to the government
Romney/ Ryan 2012
Freedom
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mtcountrygrl
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 10:03pmtold our employees the same thing. Obama re-election for us means we are closing the doors and starting a safer business more geared to this economy. And one that does not require employees. Working in the one industry that does well when people like Obama run the country…guns. (Booze and gambling are the others that do well in a down economy).
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1Archer4U
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 3:53amI am having the hardest time reading some of these posts. I can not believe how stupid 1/2 of this country is! (Not you, you’re one of the one’s who get it.) My head’s ready to explode! These people are hopeless. Sorry, I just had to rant to a like-minded person to keep from going OFF on a MORON! Thanks! :)
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cbrown
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 12:47pm@Tri-ox
Did you get a chance to read Siegel’s wiki page? He is a shady character.
Hiring and Firing decision have very little to do with the President. European slow down will have more to do with layoffs than any of Obama/Romney decision. Fiscal cliff is one that we have to avert and Congress will take care of this.
The economy is slowly recovering and all signs points to better 2013 than 2012, No one with their right mind will fire their staff or leave the country b/c Obama/Romney got elected. Seriously? Get real!
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Tobytheone
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 9:39pmbiteme doesn’t even understand
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Wolfgang the Gray
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 9:37pmIf American’s give BHO 4-more years, we are all headed down a very dark path. Our generation will be remembered as the one that threw away our liberty so we could be taken care of by our government.
“Obama phone! Need Obama in President!”
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American Soldier (Separated)
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 9:58pmWhat freedoms did obama took away that you believe Romney would have saved? Patriot act? NDAA? Undeclared wars? Tarp? Auto bailout? Gun control? Romneycare?
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Centurian
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 10:34pm@American Soldier,
Apparently you received a closed head wound during your military time if you need this one answered.
A superb answer to this would be Behngazi. Obama has blood on his hands for this, all because he doesn’t want to offend the Islamic Middle East (This is one example).
Or…
How about the bovine scattle report of a 7.8% unemployment rate. Even pundits at CNN and MSMBC are skeptical about this. Obama knows no shame and would sell out his children to hang onto power.
If you want more examples, please let me know so I can explain further…
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mecanic
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 9:36pmOBAMA=LOSER. here’s another example of real people standing up and telling the truth, instead of being politically correct and bowing down to thugs in the white house. GOD BLESS HIM for speaking the TRUTH.
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Jenny Lind
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 9:34pmGood for him telling the truth, and if his employees have any loyalty at all, they will stick with this man and vote Romney. I just came from a rally in Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio, Romney was there with Chris Christie, so I was there to hear from two good men who know what this country needs. If Romney is elected, this business will get to grow. I am truely scared of the alturnative.
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gyro
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 9:30pmVery nicely wrote
:)
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Wdawg
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 9:29pmLike he would know who his employees voted for….
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Smokey_Bojangles
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 9:26pmI can tell you from experience,Obama’s election got me laid off.
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PaBowHunter
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 9:26pmThis guy should run for President some day.
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BODYBAG
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 9:25pmThis is the very least of what will happen if Barry gets re-elected.
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PIGSWILLNEVERFLY
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 9:36pmBODYBAG this video might say something http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cQ7ldhD05E
“Right to Bear” Madison Rising (GB is featured in it) great attitude here.
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crackerone
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 9:24pmJust telling it, like it is.
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wisehiney
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 9:24pmThat’s ok, I was gonna quit anyhow if that oBUMMER arsehole weasel was to somehow win.
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