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Faith

Dentist Ordered to Pay Christian Ex-Employee $348,000 After ‘Badgering’ Her to Attend Scientology Conference

Oct. 9, 2012 2:16pm Billy Hallowell

Dr. Andrew W. Engel Ordered to Pay Susan Muhleman in Scientology Spat

Scientology founder and author L. Ron Hubbard (AP)

A dentist in Bend, Oregon, is in hot water after the state labor department ruled that he must pay nearly $348,000 to a former employee in a religious discrimination complaint that was waged against him. According to media accounts, Dr. Andrew W. Engel ordered an employee to attend a three-day, Scientology-affiliated conference — something the hygienist was adamantly and vocally opposed to.

Susan Muhleman, the former employee at AWE Dental Spa, claims she was threatened with termination if she failed to comply with the demand. Rather than attending — something she contended would conflict with her Christian beliefs — she quit her position with Engel’s practice.

In the end, the decision to leave her position was a difficult one, especially considering that Muhleman claims to be the only person working full-time in her family at the time. In November 2009, she complained to the labor department’s civil rights division, which commenced the investigation.

“It weighed very heavy on me to have to make a decision like that for the future of my family,” she said of her choice to quit, according to Religion News Service (RNS).

The Bureau of Labor and Industries ended up siding with Muhleman, claiming that Engel “badgered” her about the conference and ignored her claims about her own personal faith and its conflict with Scientology. According to investigators, the dentist also turned down his employee’s request that she attend a secular conference instead.

The ordeal, Muhleman said, left her with lost income, a dearth of health care benefits and the need to leave Oregon so that she could find another job in a different state, KPTV-TV reports. The monies ordered to her will apparently cover her lost income, relocation expenses and emotional distress caused as a result of the incident.

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Comments (72)

Abila
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 5:08pm
You can sue-but not other christians!

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Abila
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 5:06pm
Look if the dentist wants to rot in hell fine but forcing others to go with him is unreal.

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brotherwil
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 11:02am
amazing..judge shows favor to christian..?? i am suspicious

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CrismaFire
Posted on October 10, 2012 at 2:54am
Hey HI the Bible talks about not sueing another Christian brother or sister not against sueing a non Christian.

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- Servant Of YHVH
  Posted on October 10, 2012 at 4:39am
  Actually even though it was considered a lawsuit, biblically all she did was force him to pay her “wages” that she probably would have made if she wasn’t technically forced to quit. I was ready to “speak up” and say that true Christians wouldn’t do something like that but what was done was quite understandable since, to get technical here, the government did the “suing”.
  
  Report this comment
Free2speakRN
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 6:31pm
This woman quit because she was being badgered into going against her own faith. Even to the point of being terminated from her job. She needed the salary for her family’s sake.

So, this woman was threatened to the point of… “What am I going to do?! If I stay, I have to go along, and go against my deepest beliefs. But if I leave, I’m persecuted because of my deepest beliefs, and my family will suffer to what end I just don’t know. Oh, God, please help! My family will be in great need if I leave. Yet to stay will inherently be worse in my soul, now and later. And what example am I to my children! God, why am I put in this trap? I wish I was free, but I am blocked in… My Lord, my God, in the end, I cannot forsake You. I have to leave.”

But, what do I know of this type of thing in America……… I’m only Catholic.

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- ZengaPA65
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 8:00pm
  Too bad this kind of thing doesn’t happen to every idiot religious employer.
  
  Report this comment
- JQCitizen
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 8:49pm
  Zengapa:
  
  Yes, I agree; What with Christian employers REQUIRING their employees to attend Bible Studies, and Faith Healing sessions, and , Oh, My! – Passing the offering plate in the lunchroom…Tsk,Tsk,Tsk…
  
  WHAT; – are you TALKING ABOUT??????
  
  Report this comment
- DWilliams08
  Posted on October 10, 2012 at 6:00am
  If he was going to fire her for not attending, why did she quit? Why did she just not attend and get fired? Her case would have been stronger.
  
  Report this comment
- Free2speakRN
  Posted on October 10, 2012 at 2:22pm
  It may have been subtle, but the point I was making, was about Obama’s attack on Christianity.
  
  Hence…….. “But, what do I know of this type of thing in America……… I’m only Catholic.”
  
  ***
  Catholicism is the most black and white, (written out), denomination of Christianity. Catholicism has rules…very ‘old’ rules. It is now the Law of the Land, that if a Church Dogma is practiced, one can be penalized. Never before in American history was being a Catholic a problem for the State, and now a problem for Catholics. Never!
  
  What if a majority of Catholics don’t practice a doctrine? It’s ‘The Teaching’ that is now illegal and finable if one runs his business practicing these doctrines. And IRS/jail time?
  
  This hygienist could have waited to be fired, and still sued her boss. The difference with ObamaLaw, is that it’s ‘his’ way or the highway, Legally! The ‘inward struggle’ I portrayed for the hygienist, would also go for a Catholic. Who does the Catholic sue? What happens to ‘his’ family?
  
  The Catholic Universities and Hospitals ‘Will’ close, have no doubt, if this farce isn’t overturned…Possibly another goal, for a ‘one-payer system‘, all along. An unthoughtful dig, since the Catholic Church put up the first universities and hospitals in America long ago.
  
  Break Catholic Freedom and the rest is a piece of cake.
  
  Thus, the difference between the ‘Land of the Free’, and ‘ObamaLaw’.
  
  Report this comment
thegreatcarnac
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 5:35pm
Scientology is a religion made up by a science fiction writer involving aliens from space and other crap. I cannot believe anyone would fall for it. The idea that a dentist would fall for it and try to force employees to follow this religion is proof that education is not a cure for stupid.

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- Free2speakRN
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 6:34pm
  Look at our elite in power.
  
  Report this comment
- heferwiz57
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 7:43pm
  Thats interesting. Mormonism has the same sort of mumbo jumbo and I cant believe that Glenn falls for the same sort of nonsense. How can someone so careful in their decision making processes, doctors and lawyers and such, be so bamboozled into believing that God had physical sex with Mary, all non mormons dont make it to heaven, that they will inherit their own planet, and the more children they have the more glory they will receive on the other side. But I understand why this happens.
  The only respite I have from being overcome with criticalness toward those in wrong theology is that their is no one on this planet whose theology is 100% correct and that includes me. The only criteria for salvation is confessing Jesus Christ as savior and I know Glenn loves God with all his heart and would do anything God asks of him to do.
  We will be surprised at who will standing next to us praising the God of all creation and experiencing the magnitude of His love for all men on that day.
  Jesus said that to whom much is given much will required. Those in blatantly wrong theology arent given much so much is not required from them. But they do have the basics and if they honor God in what they do know God considers that a man after His heart. We are responsible for knowledge we do have and, as James says, those who teach the word will be judged the more harshly. Why? Because they should know better.
  The bottom line–pursue God with all that is within you and He will work out the details
  
  Report this comment
- wvernon1981
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 11:46pm
  Let us not forget Christianity:
  
  “The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.”
  
  Report this comment
ex_nihilo
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 4:29pm
I’m 38, and I have been a Christian since I was 5. I can understand being made uncomfortable by such a situation… but I am uncomfortable with suing because of it too. Is this really the kind of witness we should be leaving? Maybe if she had been fired, it would be more acceptable to me, but she quit. Does this mean you can’t invite employees to church — they might feel uncomfortable, quit, and the sue?

Some day I would like to have my own company. I want to begin each day with a brief chapel service. Why can’t the government just leave us alone?

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- Eastinfection
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 4:36pm
  She “quit” the way college football coaches “resign” after a terrible season….. coercion.
  
  Her attendance at the Tom Cruise love-in was presented as a work- related requirement- illegally.
  
  Report this comment
- hi
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 4:45pm
  I agree. Also, the Bible says not to sue.
  
  Report this comment
- johnjoe
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 4:52pm
  You most likely can. But if your secular bussines tries to force one to go you will be sued. I am a Christian, but that said in Amercia you can have your own views or no views and be left alone. I ask before I share.
  
  Report this comment
- Anonymous T. Irrelevant
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 4:58pm
  As soon as I saw it was in Oregon, I wasn’t surprised. She is better off in another state, anyway, so it works out.
  
  Report this comment
- fancynancy
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 5:13pm
  We own a business. We pray for people in the store if lead. We play Christian radio station alternating with a station that plays Sinatra, Dean Martin and similar sounds. It may be difficult for you to hold a chapel service with your employees unless they share your view. And even then, they may not feel comfy. Be sure that when you do start your own business you look to the leading of the Lord on this issue so that you do not have a prob. Your example in how you treat and speak about your customers and staff will speak volumes to your employees, maybe louder than the chapel services.
  
  Report this comment
- Eastinfection
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 5:48pm
  Hi HI…
  
  “Bible says not to sue.”
  
  Really? It’s that cut and dry? No exceptions?
  
  What if she had a kid dying of cancer that relied on her health insurance and her boss kept touching her inappropriately?
  What if you’re driving your car & get side swiped by a drunk who let his insurance lapse?
  What if you hire an investment broker and he embezzles all your money?.. or your church’s money?
  What if your church pays a contractor a $200,000 deposit to build a new church and he takes off to The Bahamas with the money?
  What if you go to the hospital to get a partial mastectomy & they remove the wrong breast?
  
  Report this comment
- mtcountrygrl
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 7:11pm
  The Bible says not to sue fellow believers.
  
  Report this comment
- mtcountrygrl
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 7:11pm
  That a dispute between brothers should be taken before the church.
  
  Report this comment
- Eastinfection
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 7:24pm
  @mtcountrygrl…
  
  what if the church (along with the congregation) is an inadvertent victim of fraud?… perpetuated by a false witness that claims to be a believer… it’s not your place to judge the status of their relationship with the lord but, at the same time, don’t you have to be responsible for the congregation that entrusted you with their sacrifice(s)?
  
  Report this comment
- eskulmo
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 7:41pm
  @ HI, the Bible says not to sue believers.
  
  Report this comment
- sjhill7
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 7:56pm
  Not sure where you all are getting the idea that she sued the dentist. She filed a complaint with the state labor board and the labor board levied a judgement and fine against the dentist, which he is appealing. The story can be found here: http://www.ktvz.com/news/Bend-dentist-denies-charges-will-fight-350K-penalty/-/413192/16863926/-/ejuoxd/-/index.html.
  
  Report this comment
- wvernon1981
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 11:48pm
  Anonymous,
  
  If you had ever been to Bend, I think you would disagree she was better off in another state.
  
  Report this comment
WashingtonIsMyHero
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 4:15pm
The real story here is the existence of a “Dental Spa”! What?

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- mtsnj
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 6:43pm
  It’s a Dianetics for the dental carries that were abused by the dentist in the first place …a kind of cathartic experience if you would.. :) what a bunch of crap
  
  Report this comment
just_around
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 4:11pm
“In November 2009, she complained to the labor department’s civil rights division, which commenced the investigation.”

You quit for your Christian beliefs and then sue your former employer?! What kind of example is that? Stand for your beliefs and be prepared to pay the consequences. We shouldn’t be surprised when the world treats us this way, but I don’t see in Scripture where Christ advocates suing your former employer. Sorry, I 100% disagree with this woman.

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- johnjoe
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 4:56pm
  It is time to stop using the Bible to controll all behavor in a Christian .She is not to sue a fellow Christian, not a none-beliver. Besides if you want Christians to bend the knees to civil authorties we need to have the same rights.
  
  Report this comment
nosharia
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 3:43pm
Who even DOES that? By now haven’t we all learned that people in power do not force religion, sex, politics and flu shots on employees?

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zoro51
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 3:35pm
scientology IS YET ANOTHER MAN MADE CULT..

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Magyar
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 3:24pm
I wonder if it’s just a money laundering scam!

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IdahoAdrienne
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 3:24pm
There are management companies that are based on L. Ron Hubbards management techniques. They target people in the medical fields, including veterinarians. I worked for a couple of vets that got caught up in the whole thing. They spent 25K to sign up which entitled them to a weekend seminar and a weekly phone call.

When they returned the first thing they wanted us all to do was take the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory to “assess our strengths and weaknesses” and handed us all “management” workbooks. When I opened the book the first thing I saw was L. Ron Hubbards name. WTHell? I answer the damn phone, bill the customers, and price the pet food. And they need to know my strengths and weaknesses?

I politely declined.

Honestly, the dogs and cats they treated were smarter.

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The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 2:44pm
Scientologists are famous for elbowing their way towards having the ear of judicial officials. This upset is a little strange, frankly.

But no, nobody should have their religion ‘forced’ upon someone by somebody who is in charge of your paycheck. That’s a serious conflict of interests.

But, hypothetically, leaving a bible on someone’s desk, for example, isn’t harassment in my book.

Discuss

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- Classical Liberal
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 2:54pm
  If someone kept placing a Quran on your desk, would that be harrasment?
  
  Report this comment
- Eastinfection
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 2:56pm
  @_CABRITO
  
  “But, hypothetically, leaving a bible on someone’s desk, for example, isn’t harassment in my book.”
  
  Of course it isn’t..
  ..and if “your book” isn’t hypocritical then leaving.. say..
  
  The Qur’an
  Dianetics
  or The Satanic Bible
  
  on a co-worker’s desk would not be harassment either?
  
  Report this comment
- OniKaze
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 3:43pm
  @_CABRITO
  
  I agree with some below comments… Leaving a bible on someones desk IS offensive (unless they asked to borrow your bible, or you KNOW they are Christian and they need a new bible)….
  
  Christianity IS NOT any better (or worse) than ANY other religious belief…. And trying to force that on someone because it is the “faith” you follow is not just wrong, it makes you out to be a fool, if you believe that this is “okay” while at the same time saying what this guy did was wrong…
  
  As an agnostic, I have studied MANY religions, and they ALL have ups and downs…. Truths and Lies…
  
  Scientology (while we ALL know is man-made garbage) is nearly the same as every other religion, in the regards that it was a “faith” or “system” created by man… (this is where the Bible thumpers will jump and say. “___________ is a religion created by God…” )
  
  WRONG… ALL religion is man-made… And it cannot be proven otherwise… Follow the money and power, and see who benefits, and at the end it will ALWAYS be a man or a group created by man…
  
  I find ALL religion offensive, as it is nothing but complete arrogance to say you know ANYTHING about God, or his intentions for mankind… And the reason Christianity is one of the most offensive is this “holier-than-thou” attitude Christians have, where you can say what that doc. did was bad, but what you do is not….
  
  IT’S THE SAME THING…
  
  “Faith” must be chosen willingly, or it will lose
  
  Report this comment
- Eastinfection
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 4:33pm
  @ONI… well said..
  
  While i am not an agnostic, myself. i am a devout deist. The fact that i was born Catholic means a great deal to me.. but i don’t actively practice for a myriad of reasons… anyway “religion’, itself is not a problem with me but, organized religion sometimes turns me off… kinda in the way fraternities and sororities do… “If you walk like us, talk like us, and want to pay us, you can be one of us!”
  
  Also the whole groups chanting prayers together thing creeps me out a bit.
  I believe God gave me a brain so i can use my own unique words when i communicate with (the proverbial) “him”.
  
  I wouldn’t be offended by anyone gifting me any of those books i mentioned, but i get the feeling CABRITO may… or was curious to see “if”.
  
  Report this comment
- The-Monk
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 5:10pm
  Hi Eastinfection,
  
  After reading your post here you might just like reading some of Mr. J. Krishnamurti’s stuff. He was made the head leader and prophet of The Order Of The Star and on the very day they held their first meeting to hear him speak he disbanded the whole thing. About 10,000 people traveled from all over the World to be there that day…… and he got up and ended the whole thing.
  
  He then spent the next 60 years traveling and giving “talks”.
  
  Report this comment
- Eastinfection
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 5:29pm
  nice MONK… i like him already.
  
  Report this comment
- The-Monk
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 5:46pm
  Here ya go East….
  
  http://bernie.cncfamily.com/k_pathless.htm
  
  http://www.katinkahesselink.net/kr/star.htm
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMVDUAIFPOE
  
  Report this comment
- The-Monk
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 5:54pm
  Here ya go East….
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMVDUAIFPOE
  
  Report this comment
- The-Monk
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 5:55pm
  Dang…. didn’t think the first one posted.
  
  Report this comment
- Eastinfection
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 6:09pm
  Monk…
  The Monkster…
  The Monk-a-reena…
  
  Makin’ copies…. ;)
  
  Report this comment
Eastinfection
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 2:44pm
He should have taken Louis Farrakhan with him to the conference….
Now that Louie L. O. V. E. loves Scientology so much…

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Classical Liberal
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 2:34pm
This is turning out to be a terrible press year for scientology. I almost pity them.

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- The_Cabrito_Goat
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 2:46pm
  They’re just….bizarre. Their scripture, and their followers. Now I know it’s not fair to lambaste an idealogy based on their followers, but I’m simply giving a pulse of what’s happening among the folks.
  
  Report this comment
The-Monk
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 2:32pm
Scientologist are fun to talk with when you’re a Monk. I remember working for a company where 1/2 the employees worshiped L. Ron. My first week there one of them asked me, “What was there before the light?”

When I answered him he was stunned as were the others that were listened. After that they would try to mess with me weekly with all kinds of questions… it was really quite fun and they are really messed up in the head. : )

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- Eastinfection
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 2:50pm
  Hellooo Mr. Monk..
  
  1. Thanks for the “ugly” story yesterday
  2. i left you a story here that i don’t think you found http://www.theblaze.com/stories/fla-school-district-lets-pro-obama-group-register-students-to-vote-deliver-speeches/
  3. What DID come before the light?
  
  Report this comment
- KickinBack
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 2:56pm
  Hey Monk.
  
  I tell Scientologists that I know everything about Scientology…Because I saw Battlefield Earth at the show. And it was 2 hours and 7 bucks that I still want back.
  
  Report this comment
- The-Monk
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 3:11pm
  Hi Eastinfection,
  
  OK, went back and found it. Thanks… LOL
  
  You’d need some duct tape around you head first and I like your posts too much to make your head explode so soon after signing up. Now, Scientologist…. who cares if their heads explode. : )
  
  Report this comment
- The-Monk
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 3:18pm
  Hi KickinBack,
  
  I saw it with 2 Scientologist the day it came out. They brought me along to show me how superior L Ron and Scientology was compared to the rest of the World.
  
  Needless to say they were very disappointed and blamed Hollywood. I was laughing too hard to care. : )
  
  Report this comment
- Eastinfection
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 3:32pm
  LOL Monk!
  
  There you go “giving care” rather than “taking care” again…
  
  PS: You didn’t tell JZS and BARBER2 what came before he light- did you? Haven’t seen them around lately ;)
  
  Report this comment
- The-Monk
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 3:56pm
  Howdy Eastinfection,
  
  Now that you mention it…. if JZS ever comes back I just might have to “shed some light” on him.
  
  He’s in need of a good head explosion LOL…..
  
  Report this comment
- The-Monk
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 3:59pm
  Forgot to mention Eastinfection…
  
  Very nice of you to remember the “give care, take care” statement…… : )
  
  Report this comment
- Eastinfection
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 4:40pm
  Awe-shucks Monk…
  
  My mother used to tell me i was like an elephant…
  
  i never forget anything…..
  and i leave big piles of crap everywhere i go.
  
  Report this comment
- The-Monk
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 5:13pm
  Howdy Eastinfection,
  
  Oh dear…… that reminds me of my “Mad Elephant and the Monk” story…..
  
  Report this comment
- Eastinfection
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 5:54pm
  Another MONK story :D!
  
  making popcorn as we speak.. (actually opening a bottle of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. popcorn gets stuck in my teeth)
  
  Report this comment
- The-Monk
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 6:06pm
  The Monk and the Elephant:
  
  Once there was a Monk who wandered around the country side. Through towns and villages and forests he wandered. He saw God in everything he saw and always proclaimed, “God is in the rock, God is in the lizard, God is in the trees, God is in the person, and God is in the breeze”.
  In one village that this Monk was wandering through a mad Elephant had gotten loose and was terrorizing the village. As the Monk walked down the road making his proclamations a voice of one of the villagers cried out, “Mad elephant, get out of the road, run, hide, get off the road”. The Monk looked at the elephant that was charging at him and proclaimed, “God is in the elephant”. Well, the elephant grabbed the Monk with his trunk and tossed him violently into a tree.
  
  The moral of the story is,” God was in the voice telling the Monk to get off the road”.
  
  How about popcorn and a movie?
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMVDUAIFPOE
  
  Report this comment
- Eastinfection
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 7:10pm
  Great Story MONK….
  
  A different take, perhaps, on “tree-huggers”?
  
  Also.. the other links were very cool. only did the text for now…..
  started the flick but, realized there was much more and didn’t want it to be a fly-by.
  
  anyway.. Mr. Krishnamurti practically reads my mind… and is very good at articulating what i attempt to say when i discuss faith or art or politics.
  
  I have often said.. “the pope is the ONLY Catholic because his word is infallible and no two snowflakes are alike. By definition, every other Christian is a protestant.”
  
  My VERY favorite quote: “I, alone exist. All the rest is what pushes me, or what i push against. I create the universe… blink by blink”- Grendel
  
  Report this comment
progressiveslayer
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 2:27pm
So the dentist wanted the lady to do something that went against her religious beliefs,sounds just like Barry the Marxist maggot in chief. Unions aren’t needed and this case proves a worker has recourse against an employer. If it was a condition of her employment that she attend these cult meetings that’s one thing but I’ll assume it wasn’t since the article didn’t mention it either way.

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- Classical Liberal
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 2:44pm
  A guillotine? I liked the pic of Grover Cleveland better.
  
  My evening job is union. I can tell you that it is the most worthless organization ever conceived. It only looks out for its own self interests and does all it can to appease the company I work for. They like collecting dues, but looking out for its members goes against the best interests of the union.
  
  The union also brainwashes members of lesser intelligence by telling them that the company could fire them on the spot if they didn’t join the union. In reality, the union forces the company to fire employees who don’t join the union with threats of striking or walkoffs. If unions worked for the good of employees at some point in history, then that is now just part of history.
  
  Report this comment
- progressiveslayer
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 2:59pm
  I detest unions and hope one day soon we can be free of them for good both private and public sector.
  I’ve had mixed reviews of my guillotine selection,I’ll chalk it up to one of my moods.
  
  Report this comment
- Eastinfection
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 3:08pm
  Hey P Slayer…
  
  Chalk me up for the Guillotine.
  Maybe you can just “wear” it on special occasions? (like election day)
  
  Report this comment
- The-Monk
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 3:22pm
  Hey Progressiveslayer,
  
  I understood the guillotine and have been meaning to ask you…. Who’s the man in your avatar?
  
  Report this comment
- progressiveslayer
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 3:23pm
  EAST lol I hear ya and it’s a good idea,I’ll do that to express my RAGE against the regime.
  
  Report this comment
- progressiveslayer
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 7:00pm
  MONK That’s none other than Grover Cleveland,he was our 22nd and 24th president and he vetoed many bills that’s one of the reasons I like him.
  
  Report this comment
KickinBack
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 2:26pm
What a doof. I guess he didn’t have the Tom Cruise recruiting charm. $cientoglogy $ucks.

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Oneirishman
Posted on October 9, 2012 at 2:24pm
Does Scientology have a seminar for court rulings against its members?

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- The-Monk
  Posted on October 9, 2012 at 2:37pm
  It’s called revenge. And they are quite adept at it.
  
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