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Faith

Romney’s Faith Makes an Appearance During the Debate — See the Impassioned Remarks Here

Oct. 17, 2012 9:36am Billy Hallowell

Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney has a complicated history when it comes to addressing his faith. While he gave a well-known speech about his Mormon beliefs back in 2007 during his first run for the White House, in the years following, some have subsequently accused him of holding back on publicly-stating his theological values (read a full history of Romney’s past comments about his faith here).

Despite these critiques, at the Republican National Convention not long ago, Romney opened up candidly about his views on God and his church activities. And last night, at the second presidential debate, the candidate, again, spoke openly about his allegiance to the Mormon faith and the prominent role that his belief in the Almighty plays in both his policies and passion.

Romney Invokes His Mormon Faith in Impassioned Closing Debate Remarks

Photo Credit: Getty Images

In powerful closing words, the candidate discussed his personal faith and religious views in an effort to showcase their importance in his life — a message he clearly hoped would resonate with the American electorate. Before delving into these sentiments, Romney highlighted his allegiance to helping citizens — and the nation — get back on track.

“I care about 100 percent of the American people,” Romney said, trying to separate himself from his past comments about the 47 percent that caused debate among liberals and conservatives, alike.

From here, Romney connected his LDS membership to his care for the general public, claiming that his devotion is rooted in his faith.

“My passion probably flows from the fact that I believe in God — and I believe we’re all children of the same God,” he said. “I believe we have a responsibility to care for one another.”

Romney went on to highlight his own work within the Mormon church. In addition to serving as a missionary, he was a pastor of his congregation for a decade. Throughout these experiences, the candidate said he helped fellow church members through difficult times.

“I’ve sat across the table from people who were out of work and worked with them to try and find new work or to help them through tough times,” he said.

Watch Romney’s entire address, below:

Romney’s openness about his faith likely hinges upon an urge to personally connect with voters. Considering that The Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life recently found that the vast majority of Americans — 73 percent — are Christian, with an additional six percent encompassing other faiths, the role of religion in American life is explicit.

It’s too early to tell how this portion of the debate resonated with voters – particularly those with a faith bent — but Romney’s openness on the matter certainly helps to make him more relatable.

In CONTROL, Glenn Beck presents a passionate, fact-based case for guns that reveals why gun control isn’t really about controlling guns at all; it’s about controlling us. Find out more HERE.

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Comments (254)

P8riot
Posted on October 17, 2012 at 3:25pm
I for one can’t wait to have a man of faith and integrity back in the white house! Agree or disagree with Romney, its hard to deny that he is a shining example of what a good family man should be. Not many politicians can say that.

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- THERAPTURCOMES
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 3:42pm
  I will make this simple for all here commenting
  
  Just as prophesied by the bible the resurrection/rapture is about to take place. What I want you to all understand clearly is the fact you were told what was going to happen before it happened 1 Thes 4:13-18 & 1 Cor 15:50-55
  
  I cannot fathom how many of you will feel when the resurrection/rapture takes place and you realize you were left behind. I have deep sorrow to the point of my heart breaking in my knowledge in this coming event.
  
  What will you do when you see the resurrection/rapture with your own eyes? Will you realize at that point you were lied to and reject the BOM, Pearl of Create Price, D&C?
  
  OR
  
  After seeing the resurrection/rapture will you reject the great lie that will be brought forwards in a false explanation of the resurrection/rapture?
  
  It is my prayer that many of you will have your eyes opened to the cult that spent all those years lying to you.
  
  All I ask, is that you remember, you were told what was going to happen before it happened and that you will reject the lie that will be spread after the resurrection/rapture and become believers in the real Jesus of the bible.
  
  That is what I pray
  
  Report this comment
- Darren
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 4:09pm
  Rapture;
  
  “I cannot fathom how many of you will feel when the resurrection/rapture takes place and you realize you were left behind. I have deep sorrow to the point of my heart breaking in my knowledge in this coming event. ”
  
  You need a hug.
  
  http://i1.squidoocdn.com/resize/squidoo_images/-1/draft_lens19028969module156133911photo_1325539803bear_hug.JPG
  
  Report this comment
- P8riot
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 4:27pm
  @ therapturcomes
  
  Thank you for your opinion. However, I disagree with your opinion. Isn’t religious freedom great? :)
  
  Report this comment
- THERAPTURCOMES
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 4:46pm
  P8RIOT
  
  Until the resurrection/rapture takes place and you realize all mans cult satanic religions lied to you and you are going to have to try and live through a 7 year period where as a direct result of Gods wrath on an unbelieving world 1/3-2/3 of the worlds population will die
  
  AND
  
  If you do realize you were lied to and become a real believer upon the REAL Jesus Christ of the bible that you are going to have to face your death and not waiver by refusing the mark of the beast (RFID chip or ink)
  
  You can avoid this by become a real believer upon the real Christ of the bible Romans 10:9-10
  
  Report this comment
- Eblaze44
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 5:46pm
  @THERAPTURCOMES Posted on October 17, 2012 at 3:42pm
  
  Have you ever thought of praying that God would give you understanding in your heart?
  
  I do not doubt your sincerity in your belief. But you have no real idea, my opinion, of that book that is called the Holy Bible was cobbled together and put in the order it was put in. You don’t know what they left out, nor what was added to the “scripture” even after. There is NO church on the earth today – that is remotely like the original church that Jesus hand chosen disciples led – not even the LDS. Christianity is not what you say – it’s how you LIVE your life – It’s not what you “believe” that God will judge you on (based on your own book) but what you do, how you live, how you treat others. Thou shalt have NO other God – (not even my son Jesus) – before me. Thou shalt love the lord thy God with ALL they heart and all they Soul – and the second commandment is like unto it, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. ON THESE two commandments hang ALL the law and the prophets.
  
  Mitt Romney’s actions speak so much louder than Obama’s words. Choose you this day who you will serve ….
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 5:51pm
  So EBLAZE, please tell us where this astounding knowledge and wisdom came from.
  
  Report this comment
- THERAPTURCOMES
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 6:10pm
  EBLAZE
  
  Do you have any idea of what you speak? I have the Holy Spirit living within me and I study through the spirit
  
  You dare criticize my bible over that of your fantasy fiction BOM with no actual real history that can be proven through History or Archeology?
  
  DID YOU KNOW that the apostolic Fathers & early church fathers were quoting from 25 out of the 27 NT book just after the end of the 1st century?
  
  Do you actually know what this means? It means that the NT was almost completed well before the so called canonization of Scriptures.
  
  The early church had its books long before the proto catholics came along.
  
  You should not even bother to leave comments with your lack of actual real history
  
  Report this comment
- P8riot
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 6:20pm
  @therapturcomes
  
  Once again, thank you for your opinion regarding the truthfulness (or lack thereof) of my religion, but I must respectfully disagree with you.
  
  After much prayer and scripture study, the Holy Ghost has testified to me that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is literally Christ’s church on earth today. Our loving Heavenly Father has blessed me with the knowledge that Joseph Smith was a true prophet; that families can be together forever; that the Book of Mormon is true; and that the priesthood authority has once again been restored to the earth by the laying on of hands and is only found in this Church.
  
  Now you may disagree with me, but once again, isn’t the freedom of religion great? ;)
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 8:32pm
  @P8
  
  How do you “know” it was the Holy Spirit, and how do you “know” He was telling you that the Book of Mormon is true? Can you explain the mechanics of that to me please?
  
  Report this comment
- Darren
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 11:09pm
  Rapture & Otherberean;
  
  I secnd Patriot 8′s testimony. The Holy Spirit’s tld me that the Church of Jeuss Christ of Latter-day saints is God’s true Church on the earth. It is the everlasting gospel of Jesus Christ restored in its fulness to the earth in our modern day. It restores the true nature of the Father and the Son. It restores the holy priesthood to administer Christ’s ordinances on earth. It restores knowledge fthe eternal nature of family.
  
  The Holy Spirit once told me directly that God lives. I knew it as I prayed one night and the Holy Spirit was pured upon me starting from my head right down to my toes. It was a pure sensation of love, peace, and at ne moment in my life I had absolutely no desire to do anything wrong.
  
  Over time and in its own due time, pusruing sincere desire and study, the pure assurances of that moment has returned to me regarding the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith, and living prophets today. The Holy Spirit is a still small voice which brings peace and assurance to one’s mind and heart. Through it I have learned great truths one can find during this small time in mortality.
  
  Report this comment
- Abraham Young
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 10:08am
  20 And the Gentiles are lifted up in the pride of their eyes, and have stumbled, because of the greatness of their stumbling block, that they have built up many churches; nevertheless, they put down the power and miracles of God, and preach up unto themselves their own wisdom and their own learning, that they may get gain and grind upon the face of the poor.
  
  21 And there are many churches built up which cause envyings, and strifes, and malice.
  
  22 And there are also secret combinations, even as in times of old, according to the combinations of the devil, for he is the founder of all these things; yea, the founder of murder, and works of darkness; yea, and he leadeth them by the neck with a flaxen cord, until he bindeth them with his strong cords forever.
  
  23 For behold, my beloved brethren, I say unto you that the Lord God worketh not in darkness.
  
  2 Nephi 26:20-23
  
  Report this comment
- Abraham Young
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 10:12am
  2 And the things which shall be written out of the book shall be of great worth unto the children of men, and especially unto our seed, which is a remnant of the house of Israel.
  
  3 For it shall come to pass in that day that the churches which are built up, and not unto the Lord, when the one shall say unto the other: Behold, I, I am the Lord’s; and the others shall say: I, I am the Lord’s; and thus shall every one say that hath built up churches, and not unto the Lord—
  
  4 And they shall contend one with another; and their priests shall contend one with another, and they shall teach with their learning, and deny the Holy Ghost, which giveth utterance.
  
  5 And they deny the power of God, the Holy One of Israel; and they say unto the people: Hearken unto us, and hear ye our precept; for behold there is no God today, for the Lord and the Redeemer hath done his work, and he hath given his power unto men;
  2 Nephi 28:3-5
  The Book of Mormon is true.
  
  Report this comment
- THERAPTURCOMES
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 1:37pm
  Mitt Romney supports a two state solution and anyone voting for him will be also supporting a two state solution and should expect the same punishment as promised in Joel 3:1-2
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 3:06pm
  You didn’t answer the question. How do you “know” it was from God? How does one “know” if a feeling is from God or not some other stimulus?
  
  “Know.” How do you “know?” And don’t tell me you just know, unless you are prepared to explain the mechanics of “how” you “just know.”
  
  I realize you had a warm tingly sensation but how do you “know” that “feeling” was from God? Is it “possible” that it could have come from some other source?
  
  Is it wise to base all truth on one’s feelings? Don’t you need something a little more tangible than a “feeling” to “know” with such certainty that something is true? Should one be willing to base one’s salvation and the possibility of eternal damnation on a “feeling?”
  
  Seems risky to me.
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 4:24pm
  @theother
  “Don’t you need something a little more tangible than a “feeling” to “know” with such certainty that something is true? Should one be willing to base one’s salvation and the possibility of eternal damnation on a “feeling?”
  This version of Christianity that you are trying to spread here is completely unbiblical. Was Peter’s witness that Jesus Christ was the Son of God based on something tangible, or was it revealed to him from the Father? You are building your foundation on sand with your tangible evidence. Stop denying the Holy Ghost, he is real and the promise Jesus made to send him is true.
  What can you learn from Thomas?
  “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”
  Jesus teaches
  “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed”
  I don’t believe the Bible is inspired because of artifacts, or because of what archeologists might say. I believe it is the word of God because the Holy Ghost revealed it to me. I know scientific understanding has the tendency to change, but God does not change.
  The question for you theother, is do you believe God answers prayers? Was Christ telling the truth when He said “ask and ye shall receive”? What about James 1:5-6? Do you believe those? The Holy Ghost will teach you more than your online greek classes ever can
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 4:33pm
  JOEY8
  
  You didn’t answer the question. How do you “know” it was God?
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 4:57pm
  @theother
  I feel like that is something you need to find with your own study of the Bible. You seem to think that God doesn’t answer prayers and that any kind of answer is from the devil. God speaking to me is very personal. If you were someone sincerely asking, I wouldn’t hesitate to answer, but your whole purpose in being here is to embarrass my faith. The Bible does tell you how the Holy Ghost works, look.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 5:24pm
  JOEY8
  
  You keep pointing me back to the Bible to tell me how “you” know. The Bible isn’t going to tell me how “you” know. That’s why I’m asking “you.”
  
  How do “you” personally “know” it was God? I’m not asking how others should determine if God is talking to them or what we think about your subjective experience, I’m asking you to be very specific about why you can be so certain that it was from God.
  
  I realize this is hard to answer because the truth betrays your false hope. But I get a warm fuzzy myself watching you grovel for an answer when the truth is so simple. But you have to play the game. Don’t Mormons ever get tired of playing the game?
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 5:36pm
  @theother
  The fact that I’m not able to convey in words my experience with God speaking to me somehow convinces you that He didn’t speak to me. God’s Spirit speaking to my Spirit was something that was very personal to me and I don’t think I can explain how I knew it was from God, but God knows me personally and was able to speak to me in a way that I could understand. I believe He does the same with any person, because we are all His children and He knows us. I speak to my son differently than I speak to my daughter because I know them and what works for them as individuals. We are given generalities, that the Holy Ghost will convey feelings of love and peace and gentleness, but that also he will speak to our minds. I don’t know how to explain it, but that doesn’t mean I didn’t experience it. What I do know is that the devil is not capable of mimicking what I experienced, and if he is, then God is not out to save us since there is no discerning the devil from Him.
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 5:46pm
  @theother
  So, the difference between us is pretty clear now:
  Why do I believe the Book of Mormon is true? God’s Spirit told me. Why do you believe the Book of Mormon isn’t true? “based on facts”.
  Why do atheist believe the Bible isn’t true?…… I’ll let you answer.
  Fine with me. And nobody is on trial here, it’s an internet comment board
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 5:52pm
  Actually your faith most certainly “is” on trial here because you have chosen to speak up here and make unfounded claims here.
  
  If you can’t defend your wild and unfounded claims, perhaps you shouldn’t make them?
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 6:01pm
  @theother
  So, what do you say to atheists that claim the Bible isn’t true because “facts are facts”? Is it possible their facts aren’t facts? Or is something a fact is if someone claims it as a fact?
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 6:05pm
  Which facts are you referring to?
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 6:20pm
  JOEY8 said: “What I do know is that the devil is not capable of mimicking what I experienced, and if he is, then God is not out to save us since there is no discerning the devil from Him.”
  
  Are you kidding me? You actually believe that Satan cannot deceive you? Oh my. That is astounding!
  
  “For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.” Matt 24:24
  
  Are you somehow above that? I don’t think your Mormon decoder ring will help.
  
  Satan can masquerade himself as an angel of Light 2 Cor 11:14
  
  By believing that he cannot deceive you, he has already deceived you.
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 6:46pm
  @theother
  “Are you kidding me? You actually believe that Satan cannot deceive you? Oh my. That is astounding! ”
  First off, I didn’t say that I believe satan cant deceive, that is actually far from what I said. I’ll quote what I said and break it down for you like I would for a child.
  “the devil is not capable of mimicking what I experienced”
  What I experienced was the Holy Ghost, who’s fruits are love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.As the New Testament puts it:
  “For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.”
  The spirit of fear is from satan, the spirit of power, love and a sound mind is from God. It is not the other way around. Satan is not able to mimic the Holy Ghost. What he is able to do is convince people to not listen to the Holy Ghost and to trust their online greek classes.
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 8:14pm
  @theother
  I would also recommend reading 1 John chapter 4. Here’s a sneak preview:
  “1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: ”
  You’ll have to read it to find out the answer!
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 19, 2012 at 1:19pm
  Astonishing!
  
  You have placed the truth about your own “spirit” right in front of yourself, yet you still can’t see it. LoL
  
  How did you “test the spirit” when you had your “epiphany?”
  
  How does is one “test” the spirit?
  
  According to the example of John, your example, we are to look for false prophets.
  
  Helloooo! thump thump thump McFlyyyyyyy!
  
  Joseph Smith is a false prophet many times over.
  
  I mean, I mean, ….. what! You can’t put one and one together and come up with two?
  
  I would also recommend reading 1 John chapter 4. Here’s a sneak preview:
  “1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: ”
  You’ll have to read it to find out the answer!
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 19, 2012 at 2:33pm
  @theother
  “According to the example of John, your example, we are to look for false prophets.
  Helloooo! thump thump thump McFlyyyyyyy!
  Joseph Smith is a false prophet many times over. ”
  
  If that is all you took from 1John chapter 4, then you either didn’t read it or you continue to only get what you want out of the scriptures.
  We are told:
  “Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
  3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.”
  Do you believe this? When I read the Book of Mormon that teaches that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh (He actually visits the people in the Book of Mormon after His resurrection), the Holy Ghost witnesses it to me. How do I know it’s the Holy Ghost you ask? Well, according to 1 John 4, “Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God”. That is pretty biblical to me.
  When I read what Joseph Smith taught about Jesus Christ is come in the flesh such as when he wrote:
  “after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives! For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father.”
  The Holy Ghost witnesses to me it’s true.
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 19, 2012 at 2:37pm
  @theother
  So you read that chapter in 1 John and all you get out of it is “FALSE PROPHETS!”, when in fact, we are being taught how to discern a true spirit from a false one. Remember, Jesus warned false prophets, He didn’t warn of anyone claiming to be a prophet.
  Unfortunately, this is another example of you showing that when you read the scriptures, you only read what you want. As Jesus said,
  “Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?”
  You deny the power of God when you say that the Holy Ghost isn’t enough to witness the truth and that you need a tangible witness or evidence as well.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 19, 2012 at 5:34pm
  You quoted the verse on false prophets as an example of how you “know” the BofM is true.
  
  Look. You claim that the feeling you had was from the Holy Spirit and assures you that the BofM is true. And you used the verse in John that talks about false prophets as your proof that it was the Holy Spirit.
  
  The bottom line is that either John and the Holy Spirit are liars, or you are a liar, because Joseph Smith is a false prophet. You can’t deny or avoid those facts.
  
  http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/falseprophecies.htm
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 19, 2012 at 6:39pm
  @the other
  “either John and the Holy Spirit are liars, or you are a liar,”
  Nice conclusion, how about either Jesus was a liar, or you are. You choose.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 19, 2012 at 7:51pm
  Jesus cautioned “not” to follow His teachings of a false prophet. I follow Jesus’ teachings, as found in the Bible. You follow the teachings of the false prophet Joseph Smith.
  
  If that’s your choice, then I have no problem with that, but you can’t have your cake and eat it too. You are not a Christian if you follow the teachings of a false prophet which clearly oppose the teachings of the orthodox and historical Jesus Christ of Christianity.
  
  But back to the point. The Bible is the only source a Christian may use as the standard for Spiritual knowledge and truth. Our feelings are subjective and not reliable.
  
  We know from the Dead Sea Scrolls that the Bible we have today is that very same one and only Bible. We are left with the fact that nothing has been left out or changed. There was never, nor is there an need now, for a restoration of the Gospel. It was never lost as Smith claims. History and archeology prove that Smith is a false prophet.
  
  The “test” of all things Spiritual, is the Bible. If you test your “epiphany” and it does not stand up to Biblical teaching, then it is simply not spiritually true. I do not deny that you may have had a spiritual “experience” but I’ve offered valid reason to believe that your test of it’s efficacy is flawed. And since the “experience” convinced you that the Bible is wrong, I have no choice but to consider that your experience was most certainly not from the God of Christianity.
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 19, 2012 at 11:32pm
  @theother
  “And since the “experience” convinced you that the Bible is wrong, I have no choice but to consider that your experience was most certainly not from the God of Christianity.”
  When did I mention that the experience convinced me the Bible was wrong?
  The basis of your belief in the Bible is on physical evidence, which is a sandy foundation. archaeology and history do not trump the Holy Ghost, as both are subject to the interpretation of whoever writes the history and whoever studies the sites.
  You stated that “The “test” of all things Spiritual, is the Bible.”
  What was the test before the Bible was organized? Why would the test of all things spiritual be subject to change since the Bible hasn’t been around forever? Does God change? Did Peter know that Jesus Christ was the Son of God by reading the Bible? How was it revealed to him? What about early Christians after Jesus’ death? Why was there so much talk in the New Testament about the Holy Ghost touching people and leading them to baptism? Why would it be any different now?
  A final thought, you said “The Bible is the only source a Christian may use as the standard for Spiritual knowledge and truth.”
  Says who? Doesn’t say it in any Bible I ever read. It actually says God is the source of spiritual knowledge, and the way He gives it to us is the Holy Spirit.Why do you refuse to believe that the Bible as we have it was organized hundreds of years after Christ by the same organization you claim is
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 19, 2012 at 11:40pm
  Do you believe the apocrypha is scripture? The same people who organized the Bible thought the apocrypha was scripture but protestants took it out. Who was inspired? If the Catholics got it wrong with the apocrypha, how can they have got everything else right?
  You claim that history proves the Book of Mormon is false, but you refuse to look at the history of the Bible.
  Now, before you tell me what I believe about the Bible, I believe it to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. Guess what, prophets wrote it, and I believe that prophets can interpret it correctly. I believe imperfect men organized it, some with good intentions, some probably without the best of intentions. Why do I believe the Bible is the word of God, because the Book of Mormon supports it as a second witness of Jesus Christ (in the mouth of two or three…) How do I know the Book of Mormon is another witness of Jesus Christ? History? Nope. Archaeology? Nope (but there is evidence). Online greek classes? Nope. Flesh and blood didn’t reveal it to me, my Father in Heaven did through His Spirit.
  
  Report this comment
- kiddirt
  Posted on October 20, 2012 at 6:45pm
  Hey Rapture,
  What are you doing here? Did you miss your ride on your comet?
  Bawahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 21, 2012 at 12:04pm
  “When did I mention that the experience convinced me the Bible was wrong?”
  
  You are so intellectually dishonest that I have absolutely no respect for you as a person. Thanks for showing everyone just how low Mormons will go to sell their snake oil.
  
  Are you saying that Joseph Smith was wrong about the Bible? Of course not. This is just another of your intellectually dishonest Mormon snake oil tactics to mislead and deceive. All in the interest of promoting the Mormon lie.
  
  “The basis of your belief in the Bible is on physical evidence, which is a sandy foundation. archaeology and history do not trump the Holy Ghost, as both are subject to the interpretation of whoever writes the history and whoever studies the sites.”
  
  Nope. Already disproved. http://www.gotquestions.org/canon-Bible.html How many times will you make this argument and have it disproved before you will admit you are wrong? Just keep letting your feelings trump the facts. That’s pathetically dishonest.
  
  “What was the test before the Bible was organized?”
  
  Miracles, Signs and Wonders. Which were not just “feelings” but “testable.”
  
  Cont…
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 21, 2012 at 12:05pm
  “Why would the test of all things spiritual be subject to change since the Bible hasn’t been around forever?”
  
  Why don’t you research it and get back to me. It’s not relevant to our discussion because we do have the Bible. And ask yourself this; How did people know Christ if there was a total and complete falling away of His Church prior to Smith restoring it? Which incidentally the Bible says the gates of Hell will not prevail against, in direct opposition to Smith’s heretical teachings. Of course you won’t answer that. And, besides, we do have the Bible now, and you did not test your subjective experience against it, or you would have realized that the Holy Spirit would not tell you a lie. The BofM is most certainly not from God, because it came through a known false prophet.
  
  “Does God change?”
  
  Nope.
  
  “Did Peter know that Jesus Christ was the Son of God by reading the Bible?”
  
  Peter helped write the Bible. Why I continue to patronize you is beyond me. LoL
  
  “How was it revealed to him?”
  
  Jesus told him. LoL. Maybe you’re only 12 instead of 14. It’s getting pretty weird. LoL
  
  “What about early Christians after Jesus’ death?”
  
  What about them? They had the Apostles performing miracles, signs and wonders. After that, they ceased. Unless you can tell me of someone who has raised a dead person since.
  
  Cont…
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 21, 2012 at 12:07pm
  “Why was there so much talk in the New Testament about the Holy Ghost touching people and leading them to baptism? Why would it be any different now?”
  
  Why would “what” be any different now? 1 John 4:1 hasn’t changed. Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
  
  How did you “test” your spirit, because many false prophets have gone out into the world? When you tested your “spirit,” did your “spirit” tell you to follow the teachings of the false prophet? Or the teachings of Jesus Christ? (and we have already established that JS is a false prophet and that the LDS Jesus is not the same Jesus in the Bible or Christianity). So if the HS told you to believe a false prophet, one of you is a liar and I don’t think it’s the HS.
  
  I think you know the truth by now, you’re just not interested in living it.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 21, 2012 at 12:08pm
  “A final thought, you said “The Bible is the only source a Christian may use as the standard for Spiritual knowledge and truth.”
  Says who? Doesn’t say it in any Bible I ever read.”
  
  I’ve shown you several times already, but you are so steeped in snake oil that you have to wipe some of it off before any of this will make sense to you.
  
  1 Thess 4:2For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus.
  
  2 Tim 3:16″All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,”
  
  Mark 13:22For there will arise false christs and false prophets, and will show signs and wonders, that they may lead astray, if possible, even the chosen ones. 23But you watch. “Behold, I have told you all things beforehand.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 21, 2012 at 12:16pm
  “How do I know the Book of Mormon is another witness of Jesus Christ? History? Nope. Archaeology? Nope (but there is evidence). Online greek classes? Nope. Flesh and blood didn’t reveal it to me, my Father in Heaven did through His Spirit.”
  
  Well, then we’re right back where we started. Either your “spirit” is a liar or you are, because Joseph Smith is clearly a known, proven, lying, conniving, womanizing false prophet with a penchant for 14 year old girls and other people’s wives.
  
  So you can believe what you will but when you test Joseph Smith and his BofM by the spirit, we see the teachings of Satan, not the Holy Spirit.
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 21, 2012 at 3:18pm
  @the other
  What was the test before the Bible was organized? miracles,Signs and Wonders”
  Well in that case, I guess the pharaohs priests passed didn’t they? Dangit
  You lose based on that terrible logic and the fact that even though you think I’m a 14 yr old liberal troll, you still come back to reply! Because that’s what mature old grandfathers do. Old man fail x10. See you in the next story!
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 21, 2012 at 4:31pm
  “What was the test before the Bible was organized? miracles,Signs and Wonders”
  Well in that case, I guess the pharaohs priests passed didn’t they? Dangit”
  
  LoL Wrangle dangle. No they didn’t. What they did was trickery. Read your Bible. No, the real one, not that phony one Smith wrote between orgies.
  
  Since the Bible is silent concerning your query, I must rely on what I know the Bible “does” say, and then use logic and reason to answer. If I care to. But quite frankly I don’t think the question has any relevance to the command that we have in the NT to test all spirits. You’re just dodging the command to test the spirits.
  
  Which you did not do properly. You relied on your own feelings to gauge the truth rather than test the Bible gave us – false prophecy. If that spirit told you it’s ok to believe the teachings of a false prophet, then someone is a liar. Either God, Joseph Smith, or your feelings. Since, in your opinion, neither you, Joseph Smith or your feelings can possibly be wrong, it must be God.
  
  “You lose based on that terrible logic and the fact that even though you think I’m a 14 yr old liberal troll, you still come back to reply! Because that’s what mature old grandfathers do. Old man fail x10. See you in the next story!”
  
  We’re still on this one, and you are still a 14 year old loser Mormon troll, and your childish arguments still reflect that fact. It’s obvious to everyone by now. Do bullies steal your lunch money “every” day?
  
  Report this comment
TheCalmOne
Posted on October 17, 2012 at 3:09pm
Romney the coward didn’t mention Planet Kolob, now, did he? Why didn’t he tell us all about the place where his God can be found? There is a reason for that, I think…

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- P8riot
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 3:18pm
  Don’t worry, he also forgot to mention that we plan on taking over the world and forcing everyone to eat strange utah jello (ps – the jello comment is an inside ‘mormon’ joke – many of us have family in utah who have served some really strange jello – e.g. jello with carrots, etc) :)
  
  However, to address your concern in all seriousness, Romney did not get into any specific church doctrine because he is not attempting to convert anyone. Rather, Romney is simply attempting to unite people of ALL faiths to be proud of how our differenct faiths have made us better people and to combine our similar VALUES to re-build this great country!
  
  Romney/Ryan 2012!
  
  Report this comment
- Darren
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 3:27pm
  Calmone;
  
  You do realize that there is no such thing as the *planet* Kolob in LDS beliefs, correct?
  
  Report this comment
- THERAPTURCOMES
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 4:18pm
  DARREN
  
  I think that you do not even know your own beliefs as LDS
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolob
  
  Report this comment
- Darren
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 4:39pm
  Rapture;
  
  So now do you include wikipedia in your rapture packets? Sweet. Now I’m confident that the unsaved will be better prepared than ever. From your wiki link to declare what I believe (or should believe):
  
  “Kolob is a star or planet described in Mormon scripture. Reference to Kolob is found in the Book of Abraham,”
  
  Let’s look in the Book of Abraham:
  
  ” 2 And I saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it;
  
  3 And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.” (Abraham 3 – http://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/abr/3?lang=eng )
  
  Can you show me any mention of Kolob being a planet? Or is your faith placed in wikipedia?
  
  Report this comment
- THERAPTURCOMES
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 4:52pm
  DARREN
  
  Did you realize that the BATTLE STAR GALACTICA is based on MORMON BELIEFS?
  
  This is the prime time to focus on how the mormon church contradicts it’s own teachings and contradicts their own founder Joseph Smith.
  
  With each birth of a new mormon sect the further away from their founder Joseph Smith they pull away.
  
  Here on this very site you have mormons not knowing mormonism arguing what is mormon with each other. Each generation pulls further away from their founder thus showing it is not mormonism at all just another cult breaking into a cult of parts and sects.
  
  And all are satanic
  
  Report this comment
- Darren
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 5:11pm
  Rapture;
  
  LOL, now your faith is placed in Battle Star Galactica as the basdis as what I should believe? Your rapture packets are just spilling over in valuable material to save the unsaved (which make you cry and weep).
  
  Yes “Kobol” (if I remember the name correctly) is from “Kolob” and the story as I understand it was writen by a Mormon (or Mormons). That’s only an example of a writer using his own knowledge to write a fictional story. here’s another example:
  
  http://suite101.com/article/the-matrix-and-the-bible-a159517
  
  “This is the prime time to focus on how the mormon church contradicts it’s own teachings and contradicts their own founder Joseph Smith. ”
  
  Here’s a prime example of you not knowing what you are talking about. (Not surprising).
  
  “With each birth of a new mormon sect the further away from their founder Joseph Smith they pull away. ”
  
  Mrs. Darren and I just had our fifth child. Oh, the blessings. You got any kids?
  
  “Here on this very site you have mormons not knowing mormonism arguing what is mormon with each other. Each generation pulls further away from their founder thus showing it is not mormonism at all just another cult breaking into a cult of parts and sects. ”
  
  Now I’m confused. Are you talking about Mormonism or Christianity in general? :>(
  
  Report this comment
- Abraham Young
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 10:16am
  The Book of Mormon is true. The Mormon clergy is unpaid. At least they are not laboring in the Lord’s kingdom for money.
  
  2 Nephi 26:31 But the laborer in Zion shall labor for Zion; for if they labor for money they shall perish.
  
  Report this comment
- THERAPTURCOMES
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 1:10pm
  AY
  
  Zion is ISRAEL, It is HEBREW
  
  Mormonism is of satan and you have no proof that the BOM is actual real history. The only thing you have is twisted mormon apologetics that try and make everything into a Hebrew new world through the American Indians and it is all BULL
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 4:41pm
  @therapture
  ” you have no proof…”
  Do you need proof to believe in God? Have you ever read about Thomas and the resurrected Lord? What is keeping your from asking God in prayer? Do you believe God answers prayers? If you lack wisdom, you can ask God, unless you aren’t able to ask in faith with nothing waivering. God answers prayers, and no man can or ever could convince me that Moses parted the Red Sea, that Noah filled a boat with 2 of every animal, that Jesus rose from the dead, and that a 14 yr old boy was visited by God the Father and His Son. DNA, geology, archeology, carbon dating, or anything else is not sufficient enough for me to have the faith in Christ needed for salvation. It had to be a witness similar to Peter’s witness when he exclaimed who Jesus was. We are told that flesh and blood didn’t witness it to him, but his Father in heaven.
  The reason that the LDS church grows is because people pray and ask God and guess what? He answers them. If you or theother want to ask “how do you know if its God answering”, then I would tell you that you need to focus on that while you read the Bible rather than focusing on why everyone else is wrong.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 4:55pm
  LoL Another non answer.
  
  You sound like the Oblamer in Chief. The reason people don’t “know” is because they are not spiritual enough. What a bunch of self righteous baloney. The skin of a reason, stuffed with a lie.
  
  That’s the same guilt trip you put people on when you tell them “if you are SINCERE the Holy Spirit will tell you the BofM is true.” No one wants to be insincere.
  
  The Bible doesn’t tell us to rely on our “feelings” for the truth. Wisdom and knowledge are imparted to us by the Holy Spirit as we read the Bible. We’ve been over this before JOEY8. Did your dipping make you forget?
  
  So I will ask again… how do you “know” beyond any doubt, that feeling you had was from God?
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 4:57pm
  What “evidence” do you have that your “feeling” was from God?
  
  Other than you have chosen to believe it was from God?
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 5:16pm
  @theother
  I’ll begin with this one
  “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.”
  Are these feelings? They sure aren’t the feelings you convey with your preaching, so that’s a good indicator.
  Having to explain this to you is very telling. Hebrews 11:1
  “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.”
  To answer your question, I don’t know without a doubt. Faith is not having a perfect knowledge. Do I really need to quote Jesus to Thomas again? If the fruits of the spirit are all of those things I listed, are you saying that the fruits of the devil are the same? Is there no way to discern then? How do you know the devil hasn’t convinced you that the Book of Mormon is false?
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 5:33pm
  JOEY8
  
  I’m not the one on trial here, you are. But you keep trying to say that I’m something less than a Christian if I don’t know why “you” know that a feeling you claim to have had was from God. LoL
  
  Can you explain how you “know” it was from God?
  
  The answer is simple. You just refuse to speak the truth because the truth betrays your false hope.
  
  How do you “know” it was from God?
  
  JOEY8 said “how do you know the BofM isn’t true?
  
  I can’t say that I “know” but I can say that’s what I believe, based on facts. So it’s much more than just a feeling. If it was just a feeling I wouldn’t place so much emphasis on it, but facts are facts.
  
  Of course, you can’t speak the truth like that because there are no facts and once you tell a lie you have to keep telling them.
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 5:47pm
  @theother
  So, the difference between us is pretty clear now:
  Why do I believe the Book of Mormon is true? God’s Spirit told me. Why do you believe the Book of Mormon isn’t true? “based on facts”.
  Why do atheist believe the Bible isn’t true?…… I’ll let you answer.
  Fine with me. And nobody is on trial here, it’s an internet comment board
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 5:54pm
  Getting desperate huh? LoL I guess copying and pasting is only a crime when someone else does it right?
  
  Typical liberal loser. Laws are for stupid people. But not you.
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 6:00pm
  @theother
  Copying and pasting my own words because you ask the same question in 3 spots? That’s a little different than copying a websites question and claiming it as my own
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 6:06pm
  No it’s not. You’re just as much of a lazy liar as I am if you do the same thing. Just because it’s your own words means nothing. You’re a hypocrite. Fact it.
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 7:12pm
  @theother
  I think copying a websites question on the Book of Mormon and making it appear as if you read the Book of Mormon and came up with the question yourself is very different than me answering your question and then, seeing that you asked the same question somewhere else, using the same answer, is very very different. But the fact that you can’t tell the difference between these instances only fortifies the argument against your understanding of the Bible. That and the fact that instead of commenting on what I wrote (emphasis on the “I”), you tried to make a little side game out of it. Fact it!
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 19, 2012 at 6:01pm
  I could say the same about you but it has nothing to do with the fact that your explanation for how you know it was from God, doesn’t fly.
  
  Report this comment
hi
Posted on October 17, 2012 at 2:09pm
I wish he and Tom Cruise would stop talking about their religions. I held my breath when he brought it up. I have a problem with it. I voted for him anyway since he will uphold religious freedom where Obama already destroyed it with forcing Catholics to prescribe abortion pill.

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tefarah
Posted on October 17, 2012 at 1:30pm
How STUPID all you people who are arguing about the Bible and Mormonism are. You are fighting over something that is not an issue during the campaign. You should be arguing over which religion we would rather have in the White House. Mormonism or Islam. THAT IS THE ISSUE.

NON-MUSLIMS STOP FIGHTING AMONGST YOUR SELVES AND FACE THE ENEMY INSTEAD.

A house divided cannot stand. Remember that? Well stop dividing our common cause.

The Muslims are having a great laugh at all of us.

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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 2:14pm
  We’re talking about world views and ideals. Take a deep breath for crying out loud. Very little that is said here will have any affect on the outcome of the Presidential race.
  
  Report this comment
- Eblaze44
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 5:52pm
  Luke 9:[49] “Master,” said John, “we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us.”
  [50] “Do not stop him,” Jesus said, “for whoever is not against you is for you.”
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 6:03pm
  They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. 1 John 2:19
  
  Report this comment
- THERAPTURCOMES
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 6:13pm
  EBLAZE
  
  That scripture is Pre death burial and resurrection. It is dealing with the HEBREWS specifically. There is no Christian church yet
  
  Rightly divide
  
  Report this comment
- tefarah
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 6:26pm
  My impression is that this is an open discussion. We do not know who is reading this and how it may effect their thinking. If we are all just blowing off why waste our time? I’ve actually found many good things in the comments that allowed me to share with liberals. True, a lot is bunk but if we aren’t also serious then we are just like the liberals. Fun is fun but we also need to be real too. Also don’t think for a minute that what we write is not seen by the liberal side. They know everything we do.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 8:38pm
  Why waste our time? Because that’s all forums like this are. LoL
  
  Report this comment
redhotmomma
Posted on October 17, 2012 at 1:00pm
I will take Mormonism over black liberation theology any day..And most of the people making crude remarks about Romney’s faith have never prayed, never served, and never set foot in any church. They have a religion called liberalism and will not tolerate any God except government…nuff said…and yes, I can spell enough…so there!

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- Gearwrench
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 1:38pm
  @REDHOTMOMMA……well put…….I believe Mitt Romney is one of the most Ethical, Honest Individual to seek the Office of US President in a very long time. Take time to think of what our past Presidents have admitted to and some denied doing (Drugs, Alcoholism, Infidelity, Political Corruption) Now, think about the life Mitt Romney has lived……whether one agrees with Mormon theology or not……one is hard pressed to condemn their teachings of Strong Family, Civic Responsibility, Hard work, Love of Country and its Laws and refraining from the use of Alcohol, Drugs, Etc….This sounds like the ingredients for a healthy democracy…………for what its worth……it’s sad but some view this Man as extreme…..just not sure what world they are living in.
  
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- P8riot
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 3:20pm
  amen and amen to both of you!
  
  Report this comment
redhotmomma
Posted on October 17, 2012 at 12:53pm
I will take Mormonism over black liberation theology ANY DAY ……and most of the people making these jabs at Romney never pray, never serve, and never set foot in ANY church…They have one religion and that is liberalism..nuff said…And yes, I can spell enough…so there !

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georgeisn6
Posted on October 17, 2012 at 12:40pm
Romney has given more of his personel welth to people in need than Owhatabummer and Obiden have given of outher peoples welth.

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theotherberean
Posted on October 17, 2012 at 11:43am
While the statement may be true that we all worship the same God, there is only one God and He has told us how to worship Him. If we do not worship God properly, we are blaspheming His Name and worshiping idols instead.

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- PaulreveresDarknight
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 11:46am
  And that is (be) that.
  
  Report this comment
- bobdiamond
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 12:24pm
  I think that people are beginning to respect Mitt Romney for his faith and the man it has made him. Read political commentary at: http://smallcraftadvisorychronicles.blogspot.com/
  
  Report this comment
- etoddt
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 12:58pm
  What a rhetorically loaded (and easy) statement to make!
  
  What you’re implying (but not owning up to) is that you think Gov. Romney worships idols and blasphemes the name of God… because he’s a Mormon. There’s not other conclusions that people can come to based on how you made that remark.
  
  But what’s really happening here is that you’re being self-righteous and a coward.
  
  Your statement not only leads people to deduce that you believe YOU know how to worship God 100% properly, but that you feel so righteous about your standing with God that, as Jesus said, “He who is without sin cast the first stone”… you’re casting away. Are you sure you want to put yourself in that position?
  
  And you’re a coward not to just come out and say what you feel instead of making the statement rhetorical – anyone can state platitudes, but it takes an honest man to own up to the implications of what he’s saying.
  
  Ultimately, you’re a hypocrite that needs the grace of God as much as anyone else – and so casting aspersions against a man you don’t really know is pretty low. Maybe next time you’ll be braver and just say what you mean – or you’ll stop yourself next time before saying something that’s not loving, or forgiving, or kind, or even knowable – or in other words, it’s not a Christian thing to say.
  
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- THERAPTURCOMES
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 1:35pm
  EDDOT
  
  WRONG, and honest student of the bible knows that the trinity was taught from ‘IN THE BEGINNING’
  
  Sound familiar “LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE”
  
  Stop it with the Nicaean Creed (proto catholic) junk. Anyone with any real study knows that is just inaccurate junk.
  
  You have got to be mormon or SDA
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 2:10pm
  @ET said: There’s not other conclusions that people can come to based on how you made that remark.
  
  Step back from the energy drinks. LoL
  
  Feeling guilty?
  
  Regardless, I disagree with your assertions. The comments could apply to anyone who professes to believe in God.
  
  Including myself. And since I believe that Joseph Smith restored the gospel and she was born in Kentucky in 1888, that makes me a Mormon too.
  
  Report this comment
- Darren
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 2:33pm
  Rapture;
  
  How’s your rapture packets coming along?
  
  “Sound familiar “LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE” ”
  
  Sounds like two different beings to me. It also sounds like the first God talking ot the second God. You may want to add that into your packets.
  
  Trinity was NOT taught in the beginning. In fact, the closer you research the term back to the Apostolic Era the less you hear it used by early Christians until you get ot the Bible where it is NEVER used.
  
  http://www.amazon.com/The-Great-Angel-Israels-Second/dp/0664253954
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 2:40pm
  @DARREN, if we are going to use the Bible as a reference for the truth, then it never says God was a man as we are.
  
  Report this comment
- Darren
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 2:41pm
  Otherberean;
  
  “And since I believe that Joseph Smith restored the gospel and she was born in Kentucky in 1888, that makes me a Mormon too.”
  
  LOL. You’re clever but throwing a comparative statement out which does not correlate with what the LDS believe (they do not get the place of Jesus’ birth nor gender wrong) doesn’t advance your argument.
  
  Wake me up when you say something meaningful.
  
  Report this comment
- Darren
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 3:40pm
  Otherberean;
  
  “@DARREN, if we are going to use the Bible as a reference for the truth, then it never says God was a man as we are.”
  
  Huh? Tell me the story of Jesus again.
  
  And since the idea that the *Father* was once a mortal man like we are has absolutely no part in offical LDS faith or doctrine, than there’s no quarrel, is there? So, in the meantime, educate yourself on your own theological history:
  
  “Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Word of God, of his boundless love, became what we are that he might make us what he himself is” – Iraneaus
  
  http://en.fairmormon.org/Nature_of_God/Deification_of_man
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 3:53pm
  @DARREN
  
  Are you judging me? Are you saying I am not a Mormon? Are you trying to bully me into unbelief?
  
  That site you listed is the kiddie site. Here is what we really teach about the nature of God.
  
  http://tinyurl.com/8o2uzzl
  
  Report this comment
- Darren
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 5:00pm
  Otherberean;
  
  I judge you as a dork, not to unbelief. In fact, of all the Mormon dialogues I’ve engaged in on The Blaze, you reign as the champ of dorkification. I reiterate, learn your own theological history.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 5:26pm
  Are you saying I am not a Mormon?
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 5:32pm
  And I might add that Beck pointed out on his show last week that people who start tossing insults and calling names are out of arguments.
  
  I am a Mormon. I don’t care what you say. I follow Joseph Smith. She was born in Kentucky in 1888 and restored the Gospel.
  
  Report this comment
- Eblaze44
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 6:03pm
  I’ll repeat from your Bible – Thou shalt have NO other Gods before me. yet I find that you have mostly made Jesus your God. He is not. In your own bible it says that after his ascension he stands the right hand of God. Don’t go the trinity route – look it up – this three in one god stuff came about 300 years after the resurrection – seeking to bring pagans who believed in multiple gods into the church – it was a way – the same as making Mary, Jesus mother, the “queen of heaven” – an appeal to bring those worshipers of female gods into the fold. and so today we have Easter bunnies and eggs, we have Santa Claus and not one gift for the Jesus Child – who came to show us the way to God – who died for all that, beaten and crucified, shedding his blood – and you have made him your god – when he did it all in the name of his father GOD. Jesus was a “Jew”, he worshiped at the Temple and in Jewish synagogues, his disciples, on the day of his ascension into heaven – went to the Temple to praise God. The disciples that Jesus met with after the resurrection on the road to Emaus said that Jesus was a GREAT PROPHET – these are people Jesus talked with all the time.
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 8:41pm
  And Thomas said my Lord and My God.
  
  Report this comment
- Darren
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 11:13pm
  Otherberean;
  
  “And Thomas said my Lord and My God.”
  
  Indeed.
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 12:02am
  @theother
  a Mormon is someone who believes the Book of Mormon. You can be a Mormon and not a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. A member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is someone who has faith in Jesus Christ, repents, is baptized and receives the Holy Ghost by someone holding the authority from God, and continues in faith, enduring to the end.
  You saying you are a Mormon because you believe in Joseph Smith is as incorrect as your view of a Jesus who wasn’t resurrected.
  If you want to say you believe the Book of Mormon, then you can call yourself a Mormon, because the definition of a Mormon is pretty clear cut, just like the definition of a Christian. Heck, you can even believe the Book of Mormon is true and not believe Joseph Smith was called of God and I’d still call you a Mormon.
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 3:10pm
  Must I believe in the same Joseph Smith that you believe in to be LDS?
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 3:17pm
  JOEY8
  
  Two points.
  
  1. I see you haven’t been back to the temple for your reboot and snake oil dip. LoL
  
  2. You said: “You saying you are a Mormon because you believe in Joseph Smith is as incorrect as your view of a Jesus who wasn’t resurrected.”
  
  Does that mean I am not a Mormon if I don’t believe in the correct Joseph Smith?
  
  And you know as well as I, and anyone who has followed your little diatribes, it is a lie to insinuate that I believe Jesus wasn’t resurrected. He just wasn’t resurrected with a body of flesh and bones as your Joseph Smith insists. My Joseph Smith, a woman born in Kentucky in 1888 insists He was resurrected with a Glorified body and not a body of flesh and bones.
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 3:18pm
  Oops, allow me to correct myself so you don’t have wiggle room… am I still LDS if I don’t believe in the correct Joseph Smith?
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 4:01pm
  @theother
  It’s pretty simple, either you believe Joseph Smith was a prophet called of God or you don’t. You seem to want to confuse it (like other things) but it is straightforward. If he was called of God, then it would make sense for you to join the church, if you don’t think he was, then why would you want to be a member of the church he was called to organize? He was either a prophet of God, or he was a liar. Same goes for any prophet or apostle, same goes for Jesus.
  I know the comparison you are trying to make, but it just doesn’t work. Here’s a little bit from your favorite site, wikipedia under ‘Christian’.
  “Most Christians believe in the doctrine of the Trinity, a description of God as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. This includes the vast majority of churches in Christianity, although a minority are Non-trinitarians”
  Wikipedia doesn’t agree with YOUR definition of what a Christian is. Not all Christians follow the doctrine of the Trinity.
  If it makes you feel better to try and divide and cause strife, keep on going. Just know, you aren’t winning anyone over to your cause. In fact, from most people’s comments to you, you turn people away from whatever message you have (not just Mormons).
  I suggest an approach similar to what the early Apostles suggested:
  “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
  Meekness, temperance… Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another”
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 4:26pm
  JOEY8
  
  Are you saying I am not LDS because I believe in the wrong Joseph Smith?
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 5:43pm
  @theother
  “Are you saying I am not LDS because I believe in the wrong Joseph Smith”
  No, it’s because you aren’t a member of the LDS church. Just like I’m not a Catholic because I never joined their church. I’m not a Baptist because I never joined their church. I’m not a Muslim because I never joined their church.
  After Jesus’ death, when we first read of the term being used in the New Testament, a Christian was someone that believed the Apostles and were baptized and received the Holy Ghost from them. There weren’t thousands of different ideas of who He was then, that happened over time and erupted over the trinity doctrine when all of these learned men argued over who Jesus was. According to you, these men weren’t inspired and I agree with you there, but you trust them to define Jesus for you more than you trust God and His Spirit to.
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 5:56pm
  Just like you’re not a Christian too. Same logic applies.
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 6:04pm
  @theother
  If we’re applying the same logic, then “I’m not a Christian because I didn’t join their church”? Is that what you mean? So, what is the Christian church then? You mean the Catholic church? Doesn’t that leave you out of being called a Christian? Christian isn’t a sect though, so the same logic doesn’t apply.
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 6:08pm
  No, Mormons are not Christians because (among many other heretical reasons) you believe that God was once a man.
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 6:41pm
  wait, do you believe Jesus only did what His Father did?
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 19, 2012 at 5:57pm
  It doesn’t matter what I think. Christians do not teach that God was once a man as we are.
  
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- Joey8
  Posted on October 19, 2012 at 7:02pm
  Oh nice way to avoid it. Don’t be ashamed of the gospel. I’m sure that’s one of the many verses you have blacked out in you special edition bible
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 19, 2012 at 8:10pm
  Avoid your straw man perhaps. But the question has no relevance to the discussion.
  
  I said: “Mormons are not Christians because (among many other heretical reasons) you believe that God was once a man.”
  
  To which you replied: “wait, do you believe Jesus only did what His Father did?”
  
  Which is a dodge, a straw man and a snake oil question all wrapped into one. Smith taught that Jesus and the Father are two different gods. The Bible teaches that there is, was and forever will be, One and only One True God. Not a plethora of god’s as Smith taught. Jesus and the Father are that same One God, in different manifestations.
  
  The answer to your question can be found in the Bible. Jesus only does what His Father commands Him to do. John 5:30; But at the same time, when the Father works, Jesus also works. If they are two different gods, they would not do the same work at the same time. John 10:30
  
  Steering back to the point, you won’t allow me to claim to be LDS unless I ascribe to a strict set of doctrines, and I say the same is true of Christianity. Your doctrines can be found in the teachings of the false prophet Joseph Smith while the doctrines I follow are the teachings of Jesus Christ and can be found only in the Bible. Clearly, our Gospels are worlds apart. I am not a Mormon and you are not a Christian.
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 19, 2012 at 11:20pm
  @theother
  this seems routine for you, you missed the point
  “do you believe Jesus only did what His Father did?”
  The question meaning, why wouldn’t it be possible that Jesus only did what He saw His Father do? I wasn’t talking about them being seperate beings (which the Bible CLEARLY says they are since Jesus has the same God and Father, but you never want to comment on that), I was talking about your comment that nobody believes that God came down and lived like man. I know your trick is to word it to sound silly, but when you do that, you mock the Bible that teaches:
  “The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do”. Seems the Bible teaches that Jesus came to earth to live like man, and he does what he saw the Father do. Those crazy Mormons and their Bible beliefs.
  I understand your defense of throwing out “straw man” every time you can’t comment on what I write. This 14yr old kid sure knows how to keep you on your heels
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 21, 2012 at 1:32pm
  No, it’s a pain having to address your straw men arguments. Literally EVERY one of your arguments, twists my words or assigns a belief to me that you have either imagined or set up intentionally to derail my arguments. So you waste about 90% of my time with this immature and dishonest tactic. Such as now. I already answered your question in the previous message. Note John my references to John 5:30 and 10:30.
  
  But this has nothing to do with the fact that you claim a strict definition of what one must believe to be a Mormon, which disqualifies me because of my aberrant beliefs, yet you are willing to allow a very broad and general description of Christianity which includes Mormons beliefs which are diametrically opposed to the teachings of Christianity.
  
  If you would stop misquoting me, you wouldn’t have to type so much trying to argue against points that I never made. The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus and the Father are of the same substance but not the same “person.” They are both the same One and Only God. You keep saying I don’t believe what the Bible says, and I’ll tell you now that every time you say that from now on, consider yourself a liar because I am telling you now that if the Bible says it, I believe it. We may disagree on the interpretation of the Bible but that’s a different argument than I don’t believe what the Bible says.
  
  Cont..
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 21, 2012 at 1:48pm
  I disagree that “Jesus Christ came to earth to live like a man” He came to earth to atone for our sins. He came as the Eternal and Only Begotten Son of the Father, who has existed with the Father from eternity. He existed then and still does now exist and evermore will exist, as both man and the One and Only, One, True, God Almighty.
  
  Jesus came with all the attributes of the Father. “For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body” Col 2:9
  
  Belief in Smith’s false teachings about the nature of God is why LDS are not Christians, and Christians are not LDS because of God’s true teachings in the Bible, which LDS reject.
  
  I think you are 14 because my youngest son is 27 and while he’s perhaps not exceptional in that regard, you certainly don’t exhibit the intelligence I would expect from someone who is 27. Your arguments and debating style are pitifully immature. You argue very much like an unlearned 14 year old.
  
  I’m just sayin…
  
  Report this comment
PaulreveresDarknight
Posted on October 17, 2012 at 11:34am
God bless Blaze, the fearless patriots, and the U.S.A.! May your cup runneth over with peace&comfort. Our father sees us people. Things of value are noted. BE BLESSED!

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- THERAPTURCOMES
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 11:38am
  Mitt Romney does not believe in the God of the bible or the Christ of the bible and is a cult plain and simple.
  
  Report this comment
- BicPentameter
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 12:01pm
  @thereapturecomes I’m Mormon and Romney does believe in the God of the Bible and in Jesus Christ.
  
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- THERAPTURCOMES
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 12:16pm
  BIGPENT
  
  (1) If you say that Jesus Christ is a created Spirit being and is spirit brother to Lucifer then you do not believe in the Christ of the Bible and therefore not in the God of the bible.
  
  (2) If you teach as a Mormon Polytheism (Three distinct gods not of the same substance) Contrary to the bibles teaching of Monotheism then you are not Christian
  
  (3) If you deny the trinity then you are not Christian
  
  (4) If you teach that the fall in the Garden of Eden was a good thing then you contradict God and the scriptures.
  
  (5) If you say that god was once a man that evolved into a god then you are not Christian
  
  It is just that simple, The BOM is contradictory to the bible
  
  Report this comment
- etoddt
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 1:04pm
  @THERAPTURCOMES
  
  Who said if you deny the Trinity you’re not a Christian?? Is that even Biblical?
  
  The notion of the Trinity has been a part of traditional Christianity for a long time, but it was never in the teachings of Jesus Christ. It came about centuries after the Apostles and was canonized in Nicaean Creed after being put to a vote. That’s a stretch to suggest you’re not Christian for not believing in the Trinity.
  
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- brasasman
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 1:04pm
  @thereapturecomes I don’t think you have read the Bible and I’m pretty sure you have never read the Book of Mormon. Don’t mock what you don’t understand.
  
  Report this comment
- BicPentameter
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 1:13pm
  @therapturecomes Look, I’m not going to play semantics with you. It’s rather obvious that you have already crowned thyself prosecutor, judge and jury or all things Mormon. There is likely nothing I can say that you have not ignored already.
  
  I’m a Mormon, I can speak for myself and my own beliefs.
  
  Seriously, someone should coin a new logical fallacy and call it the argumentum ad Mormonum (defined as an argument wherein Mormonism is a magical exception to the normal rules of human courtesy instilled by their parents in children of good upbringing which otherwise apply without exception).
  
  Report this comment
- TWOTL
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 1:15pm
  Rapture,
  
  For some reason, it’s very important for you to label others as being less Christian than you. It also seems very important to you to call another man a liar when he says he believes in Jesus Christ, just because your interpretation of the scriptures differs from him.
  
  I prefer to celebrate what makes Christians simiilar and what bonds us all together as children of a loving God. Why be so quick to judge another? Why be so eager to tear down another man’s faith? There are answers to all of your questions. But are you truly interested in listening and understanding them, or do you simply wish to put someone else down in an effort to lift yourself up?
  
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- THERAPTURCOMES
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 1:30pm
  TO ALL THAT MADE COMMENTS
  
  I have studied the bible through proper hermeneutics, context and through Hebraic studies as well as eschatology and even far greater, through the lens of the Holy Spirit.
  
  I ask you all these questions in all honesty
  
  (1) Is Jesus a spirit being that is spirit brother to Lucifer?
  (2) Does mormonism teach polytheism or Monotheism?
  (3) Does mormonism teach that the fall in the garden of Eden was a good thing?
  (4) Prove that mormonism is from accurate ancient history with archeology and history
  
  If a cult contradicts the bible an all points then it is not CHRISTIAN. The bible speaks clearly as to whom is and whom is not Christian and whom Christ is and is not.
  
  If you say Christ is spirit brother to Lucifer then you make the creator of all that is created a created spirit being Himself and that is SATANIC
  
  Where has discernment gone??
  
  Report this comment
- mcsledge
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 2:00pm
  THERAPTURCOMES – Great are the words of Isaiah. What did Isaiah have to say?
  
  Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
  
  Is there more than one heaven known to Isaiah? No.
  Is Lucifer an offspring of deity? Isaiah’s reference to son, heaven, and heart implies he is like the rest of us (offspring of God the Father)
  The stars of God? God’s children as referenced also by Paul in Corinthians.
  If there is but one Heaven who is the most High? God the Father.
  
  Are you suggesting that Lucifer (a spirit offspring) fallen from the very heaven we acknowledge is the offspring of a different God? Interesting position to take seeing how such a position would contradict your other statements.
  
  Yes, we have a Father in Heaven. Yes, Christ is His only Begotten in the flesh. Yes, 1/3 of the hosts of heaven fell with Lucifer for battling with God. Yes, Christ is the Creator, Redeemer and Savior of this world. Yes, Christ came in the Meridian of time. Yes, Christ has appeared unto many. Yes, Christ guides His Church bearing His name having His authority…The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day S
  
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- BicPentameter
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 2:01pm
  @therapturecomes, you said “If you say Christ is spirit brother to Lucifer then you make the creator of all that is created a created spirit being Himself and that is SATANIC.”
  
  As Mormons, we believe in a pre-Earth life. That life here is a sojourn away from home, and that our ultimate goal is to return to live again with our Heavenly Father. We believe that we are all His literal children (offspring), and this includes his son Jesus, and rebellious son Lucifer.
  
  He knows that having agency is key to understanding and achieving lasting joy and happiness. He will not remove out ability to choose between right and wrong. If Lucifer, and those who have followed him do evil, it is of their own free will choice, and this does not affect ‘my’ ability to choose and do good things. Nor does it somehow diminish Christ and his ability to save mankind.
  
  This makes perfect sense to me. But what does not make sense, and perhaps you can lend me an answer is how it is ‘better’ for me to believe rather that God ‘created’ Satan for the explicit purpose of being evil, and how believing that God would do such a thing is somehow better than believing that Satan is evil because he chooses to be that way. How can I believe (if I have not misunderstood your position) that God can escape responsibility for the problem of evil if He is ultimately the creator of evil?
  
  Please, explain to me why your position is less problematic that Mormonisms?
  
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- THERAPTURCOMES
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 2:20pm
  In all of your attempts to argue your cult you all prove my point for me. You yourselves with your own words show the difference between the truth of the Scriptures and mormonism.
  
  Jesus Christ is GOD INCARNATE, He is not a created being and is the EVERLASTING FATHER. To call him a created being is to deny whom Christ is = THE GOD
  
  The link below is a verse by verse comparison of whom God is
  
  http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/jesusgd2.htm
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 2:25pm
  Look, I’m a Mormon and I believe that Joseph Smith gave us the restored gospel. She was born in Kentucky in 1888. And I don’t know why people keep denying the sincerity of my Morrmon faith.
  
  Report this comment
- TWOTL
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 2:25pm
  Rapture,
  
  If you truly wish to know the answers to these questions, then through the lens of the Holy Spirit that you admit is the greater lens, I would encourage you to read the Book of Mormon. You’ll find your answers there. Answering yes or no questons in a forum such as this will generally lead to misunderstandings and misinterpretations. For example, if I told you that Mormons believe that the Fall of Adam was part of God’s plan all along, and not some mistake that he never intended to happen, you might jump up and down calling Mormons cults and bible-haters without ever understanding how the decisions made by Adam and Eve opened the door for man to experience the fulness of joy in this life, which Mormons believe was God’s intent.
  
  If you want to know what Mormons believe, there are plenty of Mormons where you live who would love to discuss it with you. This is not a great forum for it, because I’m pretty sure the Holy Spirit doesn’t have an account on this or any other site. :)
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 2:30pm
  Hey MCSLEDGE, that’s not what we believe as Mormons. This is what we believe…
  
  http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=b79b27cd3f37b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 2:38pm
  Hey TWOTL, I’m a Mormon and I don’t believe any of what you’ve said. I believe that the Bible is the only source of truth and that God is not a man as we once were but is Spirit and no one can see Him.
  
  Report this comment
- Darren
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 3:24pm
  Rapture;
  
  1) Mormons believe that Jesus was with God “inthe beginning”. It is your interpretation of when “beginnnig” means that varies with Mormonism, not the biblical doctrine. It is also your perceptino that “create” *must mean* ex nihilo (out of nothing). Mormons do not believe in any such thing. Mormons believe in eternal material (spirit or “intelligence”). It was the gnostics which perpetuated the idea of ex nihilo which eventually became standard Christian doctrine. But it is not biblical.
  
  2) “True monotheism” is biblically different than what you think it is. The Bible *never* declares the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as one in a monos sense. It does declare beliefe in the Father in terms of monos. In the very powerful intercessory prayer in John 17, Jesus spoke otthe Father and said, “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” (v.3). Read this using a Greek interlinear translation (http://interlinearbible.org/john/17-3.htm) where “monon” means “only” or “alone”. So, according to this teaching, God the Father *alone* (monos) is the true God ansd He sent Jesus Christ. If you truly believe that only the first person of the Holy Trinity is the true God, than have at it. But doing so does conflate with the trinitarian formula; but not Mormon theology.
  
  (con’t)
  
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- Darren
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 4:03pm
  (con’t)
  
  The LDS believe thast the Father is the greatest of all and all was created for Him and through the Son. Therefore the Father truly is the “only” true God according to the words of Jesus. The reason that Jesus is also God is because He (and He alone) has comported His will ot that of the Father. That Jesus is the *only* way to the Father. The father and the Son are one not in a monos sense but in a heno sense which is open to a oness of unity; not necessarily in being. This is all consistent with the Greek New Testament doctrines.
  
  3) Elevating the belief in the Holy Trinity is NOT Christian. Not even Arius, who was on trial and condemned in the Council of Nicaea for declaring that thje Father and the Son were two separate beings was ever denied being Christian. It’s the later Athanasian Creed which obligates one to believe in the Holy Trinity to be saved, not the Bible. Here’s a perfect example of how Christians have conflated post biblical creeds with the bible itself. Mormonism denies that as as a legitimate approach in one’s soteriology.
  
  4) The LDS believe Eve partook of the forbidden fruit, got Adam to partake and they were cast out of the garden. This was “good” in the sense that it began all things towards man’s salvation: being born on earth, having families, and notibly, providing a Savior between man and God Most High. How is this bad?
  
  5) That has no official part in LDS faith or doctrine.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 4:18pm
  Actually DARREN, I’m a Mormon and that’s not what we teach. This is what we teach..
  
  http://www.gotquestions.org/
  
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- THERAPTURCOMES
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 4:42pm
  TWOTL
  
  I want you to prove your BOM through archeology and factual history, can you do that?
  
  I can take my bible all the way back to the 1st century and beyond by the writings of the Apostles, Apostolic Father and the Early Church Fathers.
  
  I know through archeology that names, places, dates and geographical places are real and many still exist to this very day.
  
  Did you know that we have over 5500 Koine Greek manuscripts? Did you know that we have over 24,000 ancient manuscripts from the 1st, 2nd and 3rd centuries in four languages of Koine Greek, Coptic, Syriac, Latin???
  
  What do you offer as proof for your holy books? A warm tingly feeling in the chest. I have studied mormonism, SDA, JW and on and on as a part of my cult studies for years and all contradict my historically proven Holy Scriptures = Bible
  
  What you suggest is just plain ludicrous
  
  Report this comment
- P8riot
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 4:44pm
  @THEOTHERBEREAN
  
  You’re obviously attempting to be funny when you continuously claim to be a “Mormon”… why do you use such obvious deception? Please refrain from making such silly comments.
  
  BTW – on your last given link I punched in “mormon” and was given only articles attempting to say why “Mormons” are not true Christians.
  
  Seriously, very strange that you find this amusing.
  
  Report this comment
- TWOTL
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 5:13pm
  Rapture,
  
  Your faith appears to be embedded in the understanding of men. While education is important, I believe God is more interested in what I believe, not what I know or what I can prove through archeology or history. Where there is undeniable proof, there is no need for faith. That is God’s test for all of us. Your studies have already been proven to be in error multiple times in this thread alone, but you continue to rely on them. That is your choice, and I won’t deny you that right or attempt to make fun of you for doing so. As for me, I will rely on what the Spirit teaches me, and that is that the Book of Mormon and the Bible are both the Word of God.
  
  I’m fairly well educated myself, but I will follow my heart over my brain any day. I’m at peace with that, and hope you find the peace are looking for someday as well.
  
  Report this comment
- Darren
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 5:19pm
  Rapture;
  
  “Jesus Christ is GOD INCARNATE, He is not a created being and is the EVERLASTING FATHER. To call him a created being is to deny whom Christ is = THE GOD”
  
  John 1:1 refers to “the God” as a person not Jesus. Interesting, no? Besides, absolutely Jesus may be called “THE GOD”. Kinda like the following:
  
  “Arise and come forth unto me, that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world.”
  
  (3 nephi 3:14)
  
  http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/11?lang=eng
  
  Does that qualify as calling Jesus “THE GOD”?
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 5:50pm
  No.
  
  No credible Greek scholar renders John 1:1 as “a” god.
  
  I am a Mormon and this is what I believe..
  
  There is only one true God (Deuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 43:10; 44:6-8), He always has existed and always will exist (Deuteronomy 33:27; Psalm 90:2; 1 Timothy 1:17), and He was not created but is the Creator (Genesis 1; Psalm 24:1; Isaiah 37:16). He is perfect, and no one else is equal to Him (Psalm 86:8; Isaiah 40:25). God the Father is not a man, nor was He ever (Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuel 15:29; Hosea 11:9). He is Spirit (John 4:24), and Spirit is not made of flesh and bone (Luke 24:39).
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 5:56pm
  @P8
  
  I don’t know why you would question or deny the sincerity of my faith. I told you I believe in Joseph Smith. You have no right to question my convictions.
  
  I am a Mormon!
  
  Report this comment
- P8riot
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 6:37pm
  @theotherberean…
  
  quick question – do you subscribe to the biblical interpretations of John Thomas and Robert Roberts?
  
  In other words, by simply looking at your moniker, I’m curious if you belong to the Berean Christadelphians or the Berean Fellowship?
  
  Either way, stop with the silly approach of continually stating you’re “Mormon” and then repeatedly (and obviously purposefully) making the clear contradiction that Joseph Smith was a woman and citing the wrong date of his birth.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 8:30pm
  @P8
  
  Quick answer on the Berean question: No.
  
  And why do you say it’s silly for me to claim to be a Mormon? I believe in Joseph Smith.
  
  Why won’t you let me believe in Joseph Smith?
  
  Why are you questioning the sincerity and authenticity of my faith?
  
  I find that offensive. Even contentious.
  
  Are you suggesting that I have to believe in Joseph Smith . . . in the same way you do?
  
  Are you saying I don’t really believe in Joseph Smith?
  
  Are you suggesting that I don’t believe in the “real” Joseph Smith?
  
  Do I have to believe in Joseph Smith the same way you do to be a “real” Mormon?
  
  Report this comment
- Darren
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 11:34pm
  TheOtherberean;
  
  “No credible Greek scholar renders John 1:1 as “a” god.”
  
  What are you talking about? First, I never said “a God”, I said “the God” (Rapture printed it in all caps, perhaps to pagckage it ifor the unsaved to see the light. Here’s the Greek script of John 1:1 (and 2) in its original according to the link:
  
  “In ORIGINal WAS THE saying AND THE saying was TOWARD THE God and God WAS THE saying this WAS IN ORIGINal TOWARD the God.”
  
  http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/joh1.pdf
  
  In order to make this sound more familiar, substitute “saying” for “Word” which is the traditional (and correct) identification for Jesus Christ. That being the case, we read, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God and the Word was God. the same was in the beginning with the God.” In the Greek manuscript we see “the God” as a person not Jesus but a person by which Jesus was with “in the beginning”. While Jesus may absolutely be called “the God” (see my Book of Mormon reference in 3 Nephi 11:14) in John 1:1-2 we read that Jesus was with another who is called “the God”. “The God” does not result in monotheism. Period.
  
  Report this comment
- Darren
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 11:47pm
  Otherberean;
  
  First, No scripture you citerd runs against anything the LDS believe. Particularly, Neither Genesis 1, Psalms 24:1; nor Isaiah 37:16 proclaim Jesus not to be created. The LDS believe that “in the beginning” Jesus was with the Father and that Jesus was created by the Father, who is the most High God, “like unto God”. Take out the notion that create means to make out of nothing for that is something the LDS reject, and this is not to disimilar from traditional Christianity which teaches that Jesus was begotten (in the beginning) by the Father.
  
  Second, the LDS Church does not teach that the Father was once a man like us. Period.
  
  Third, are people who pray to the Blessed Mary Christian? Are they actually praying to God? And what about if they believe in works being necessary (baptism and ther sacraments) to access God’s grace for salvation?
  
  Your attempt to take Mormn counter arguments and to use it against them is a failure. It’s not even entertaining.
  
  So, about that Blessed Mary question…
  
  Report this comment
- P8riot
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 2:01pm
  @THEOTHERBEREAN
  
  If you’re not a Berean of either group, then what does your moniker mean?
  
  Anyhoo, I’m not exactly sure what point you’re trying to make with the fake “Mormon” claim… why don’t you just come out and make your point.
  
  Finally, to determine if one is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is simple — has one been baptized and confirmed a member of this Church? If so, then they are a member, if not, then they are not.
  
  As for what the Church doctrines are, what you or I believe personally is irrelevant, the Church doctrines are clearly set forth in the Scriptures.
  
  Good luck brother, I hope you find peace… because for someone to devote this much time to deception is clearly lacking such peace.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 3:56pm
  @DARREN
  
  Same answer. No credible Greek scholar renders John 1:1 as “the” god either.
  
  The Scriptures you use in your second post to prove that Jesus is a created being, speak nothing of Jesus.
  
  On your insistence that the LDS church does not teach that God was once a man as we are, I must disagree. And so does Joseph Smith.
  
  “The Prophet [Joseph Smith] explained that “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens”; that “he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did”; and that he “worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling.” 10 Through the Prophet, we learn that we “are begotten sons and daughters unto God” and that Christ is the Firstborn. (D&C 76:24; see D&C 93:21–22; Heb. 12:7–9.)” http://tinyurl.com/8o2uzzl
  
  I cant believe you don’t know this.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 3:58pm
  @P8
  
  I don’t know what your obsession is with my moniker, but it seemed fitting on the spur of the moment. It has no relevance or significance beyond the fact that I needed one and that one came to mind.
  
  You said that one must be baptized and confirmed in the correct church (the Mormon Church) to be a Mormon. Doesn’t it seem logical then, that one must believe in the correct Jesus to be considered a Christian?
  
  Your last comment feigned sincerity, just enough to disguise the blow. But it was still a cheap shot at my character. But ya know, play the hand ya got, right?
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 4:16pm
  @theother
  “You said that one must be baptized and confirmed in the correct church (the Mormon Church) to be a Mormon”
  You don’t seem to be getting this, why are you making it so hard? A Mormon is someone who believes in the Book of Mormon. You can be a Mormon and not a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This isn’t trickery of words. An example would be any splinter group like the RLDS church. It would be like calling you a Bibleon.
  To be a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, that is where you need the priesthood authority that was given to Joseph Smith by Peter, James, and John and passed down. To be a member, you have faith in Jesus Christ, repent, are baptized and receive the Holy Ghost by someone with the same authority early Apostles had, and continue in faith, following the counsel of the mouthpiece of God. Speaking of modern day prophets and apostles, I’ll leave you with some counsel from Jesus when he was speaking to His chosen Apostles:
  “He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.”
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 4:31pm
  Why can’t I still be LDS and denounce the BofM while believing that Joseph Smith was a woman born in Kentucky in 1888?
  
  If you can claim to believe in Jesus Christ who is not the same one that Christians believe in, yet still call yourselves Christians, then why can’t I denounce the BofM and claim Joseph Smith is a woman and still call myself LDS?
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 4:53pm
  @theother
  Because unlike you, we have a clear cut definition of what is necessary to be a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The actual organization, the church, sets the standards and to be a member of this organization, you follow the standards. The standards were set by the leader of the church, Jesus Christ. It is very simple
  Where your little comparison falls apart is that there are thousands of different definitions of what a “true Christian” is, and your definition is just another opinion with the thousands. Do you think that your belief of Jesus is the same as everyone other Christian on the earth? Especially considering that you don’t belong to a particular sect. Do you want me to go over all of the different Christian beliefs in Jesus? Calvinist, Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans? That’s just 4, and how many branches off of those are there? Is this one Lord, one Faith, one Baptism? Why can’t you unite the Lutherans and the Calvinists? Is it because they both understand the Bible differently? And somehow, you think you have the real and true understanding of the Bible, because you studied greek online? Take the blinders off, instead of focusing on my faith, look into what yours really is. If you lack wisdom, ask God, the Holy Ghost is real
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 4:58pm
  Is it because it wouldn’t be right?
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 5:00pm
  No, my argument stands. No one claiming to be a Christian, other than a Mormon, believes that God was once a man.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 5:13pm
  No, you cannot that easily skew the facts. A Christian is someone who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. The Jesus Christ we see in the Bible, not the Mormon Jesus.
  
  One must then ask himself, who is this Jesus Christ? The Christian Jesus who is the Only Begotten Son of the Father, who is Spirit and never was a man, and Who has existed from eternity with the Father and whom through and by everything that is created was created?
  
  Or the Mormon Jesus who is the physical offspring of a mother and father god who was once a man as we are?
  
  If I’m not LDS because I don’t adhere to LDS theology, then by that same logic you are not a Christian if you don not adhere to Christian theology.
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 5:27pm
  @theother
  Again, your problem is that we can define “Mormon theology” pretty easily. What is “Christian theology”? There are thousands of different Christian sects, each with their own “Christian theology”. Do you not believe that?
  
  “Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.”
  So it’s not Biblical to think that Jesus Christ came to earth to live as we do? Since, you believe the Father and Son are the same, wouldn’t you say that God came to earth to live like us? Is it unbiblical to believe that Jesus did everything He saw the Father do? Tsk Tsk, that Bible always gets in the way of what you want to believe.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 5:50pm
  No, LDS are not Christians anymore than we are LDS. Literally no sect of Orthodox, traditional or historical Christianity believes that God was once a man.
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 6:52pm
  @theother
  “Literally no sect of Orthodox, traditional or historical Christianity believes that God was once a man.”
  So, it’s only true if the majority believe it? Early Christians were the minority in their time and believed some strange things compared to the Jews (who read from the same Torah). In fact, Jesus was brought up on charges of blasphemy because He taught some crazy things to them. hmmmm.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 19, 2012 at 6:10pm
  Your arguments just get more and more desperate. Why don’t you just accept the truth?
  
  Is the BofM only true if the majority of Mormons believe in it? Of course not. That’s ridiculous and you know it. You’re just spinning because you’re out of arguments but not intellectually honest enough with yourself to admit it.
  
  That’s why I say you must be only 14. You rationalize like a 14 yr old. If you are really 27 with a family, I feel sorry for your family.
  
  When I say no sect of Orthodox, traditional or historical Christianity believes that God was a man as we are, you use the argument that Christians were a minority at that time. Don’t you realize how foolish you sound?
  
  You will go so far as to say that Jesus blasphemed, if it proves the BofM is true.
  
  Bottom line: Mormons are not Christians for the same reason you won’t let me be a Mormon.
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 19, 2012 at 11:51pm
  @theother
  Since I have a 3 yr old son, I’m used to having to slow down and repeat things. Lets go back to your argument.
  ““Literally no sect of Orthodox, traditional or historical Christianity believes that God was once a man.”
  So, why would it be important to mention that Mormons alone believe this, that the majority of the Christian world don’t believe it? Somehow, you are trying to argue that it can’t be true if the majority of the Christian world doesn’t agree with it, and therefore, the LDS church can’t be a Christian church because the majority of Christians don’t share their beliefs.
  Why would you try use the fact that the majority of Christians don’t believe what the LDS church does, but then try to act confused when I say Jesus’ teachings were different from the majority of the Jews of His time.
  One of Jesus’ roles was to be a prophet. Do you believe the Jews were in apostasy at that time? Did Jesus restore truth to them and teach them the higher law? But the Jews had the writings of early prophets didn’t they? Surely, they read them and understood them right? Those writings would have been as you say, the “standard for Spiritual knowledge and truth”. But they had rejected prophets and interpreted the scriptures to what they wanted them to say. Jesus restored truths, was rejected by the Jews, and killed. The Jews at that time would have argued the same thing you are here. You can read their outrage when Jesus claims to be the great I AM, on eart
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 19, 2012 at 11:57pm
  @theother
  Why would the Jews be so mad at Jesus for claiming to be Jehovah, on earth as a man? What did they do as soon as He said that? The tried to stone Him. Is it the same reason that you get so upset to hear a religion teaches the same thing, that God once experienced life as we live it? Why is it so awful to believe that the Father would do the same thing that the Son did (especially if you consider that they are both the same being)? Does it take anything away from Jesus that He was on earth as a man, experienced pain, suffering, temptation, sorrow, and death? I think it adds to His glory, that He overcame all of these things, that He suffered these things that He might have empathy and succor us, His people.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 21, 2012 at 12:33pm
  “Since I have a 3 yr old son, I’m used to having to slow down and repeat things. Lets go back to your argument.”
  
  I’ve raised two son’s to adulthood and I have 3 grandchildren, so I know how a 14 year old argues, and you are either 14 years old or extremely immature.
  
  ““Literally no sect of Orthodox, traditional or historical Christianity believes that God was once a man.”
  So, why would it be important to mention that Mormons alone believe this, that the majority of the Christian world don’t believe it? Somehow, you are trying to argue that it can’t be true if the majority of the Christian world doesn’t agree with it, and therefore, the LDS church can’t be a Christian church because the majority of Christians don’t share their beliefs.”
  
  Exactly. You said I cannot be a Mormon for doctrinal reasons. The same applies as to why you can’t be a Christian.
  
  “Why would you try use the fact that the majority of Christians don’t believe what the LDS church does, but then try to act confused when I say Jesus’ teachings were different from the majority of the Jews of His time.”
  
  LoL Where do you get this stuff? No wait, don’t tell us. I think I know already.
  It doesn’t matter what “Christians” believe. What does the Bible say? We know Smith was wrong about Jesus’ Church falling away, because the Bible says the gates of Hell will not prevail against it, and that’s what Smith espouses. Smith is a false prophet.
  
  Cont…
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 21, 2012 at 12:36pm
  “One of Jesus’ roles was to be a prophet. Do you believe the Jews were in apostasy at that time? Did Jesus restore truth to them and teach them the higher law? But the Jews had the writings of early prophets didn’t they? Surely, they read them and understood them right? Those writings would have been as you say, the “standard for Spiritual knowledge and truth”. But they had rejected prophets and interpreted the scriptures to what they wanted them to say. Jesus restored truths, was rejected by the Jews, and killed. The Jews at that time would have argued the same thing you are here. You can read their outrage when Jesus claims to be the great I AM, on eart”
  
  Actually Joseph Smith is like the Jews in that he also rejects the teachings of Christ.
  
  The difference is that Joseph Smith is a FALSE prophet.
  
  Let that sink in… F A L S E prophet.
  
  Again, Joseph Smith is a FALSE PROPHET.
  
  Jesus Christ is not a false prophet, and there were no truths to be “restored” as they were never lost anymore than the Gospel Smith claims to have “restored.” No restoration was necessary because the truth was always there, the Jews were just too stiff necked to accept it, as was Joseph Smith.
  
  So don’t forget, Mormons are not Christians.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 21, 2012 at 12:56pm
  “Why would the Jews be so mad at Jesus for claiming to be Jehovah, on earth as a man? What did they do as soon as He said that? The tried to stone Him. Is it the same reason that you get so upset to hear a religion teaches the same thing, that God once experienced life as we live it?”
  
  No, the Jews sought to stone Christ because the thought that He, being a man, was claiming to be God. But they did not understand that Jesus has two natures, both God and man.
  
  “Why is it so awful to believe that the Father would do the same thing that the Son did (especially if you consider that they are both the same being)?”
  
  Another straw man. I never said they are both the same “being.” Can you tell me what I “did” say about them both? Yes, but it doesn’t help your argument to be honest, so you lie.
  
  Jesus and the Father are the same One God. The same substance, but different persons. I think you understand the Christian Godhead, you just like to confuse matters because it makes it easier to sell the Mormon snake oil. I understand your motives, and they are clearly dishonest and agenda driven to prove the BofM true, at any cost. Even at the expense of the truth. What a pitiful existence your church forces you to live.
  
  Cont…
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 21, 2012 at 12:57pm
  “Does it take anything away from Jesus that He was on earth as a man, experienced pain, suffering, temptation, sorrow, and death?”
  
  It certainly is not the truth to teach that Jesus was the literal offspring of a mother and father god.
  
  “I think it adds to His glory, that He overcame all of these things, that He suffered these things that He might have empathy and succor us, His people.”
  
  Of course that’s the reason why Jesus was also a man, to experience these things, but He was more than just a man, He is also God Almighty. Col 2:9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form
  
  Report this comment
thegreatcarnac
Posted on October 17, 2012 at 11:14am
Romney belives is God…and obama thinks he is a little god. I used to wonder how some of the old Caesars in the Roman empire considered themselves gods. How could a man decide he was so above everyone else or he is so wonderful that he calls himself a god? That is a stretch…..then..we all met obama. The little kenyan that would be dictator and god and will be nothing but a marxst roadbump on the American political highway.

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klawson8719
Posted on October 17, 2012 at 11:09am
Hello everyone… I’m going to share an article, I didn’t write it, that I posted on my site today. The link is below: Please read and then post your comments and or give me your thoughts. I would love to hear what people think about this. Do you think the article is over blown or is it spot on? Billy I think this is in your wheel house, could you write an article on it? As I always value your opinion. As a lot of this revolves around Faith. Here is the question and then the link: The Last Days Of America? 25 Signs Of Extreme Social Decay: http://thelawsonpost.com/the-last-days-of-america-25-signs-of-extreme-social-decay/

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tefarah
Posted on October 17, 2012 at 10:52am
How refreshing to hear a real man speak of his walk with G-d. Never have we had such an open choice in candidates. One looked honest, humble, and truly caring. The other looked smug, proud, and arrogant. He looked down his nose at us as if we were a waste of his time.

Obama’s biggest problem is – he can’t even be honest with himself. He isn’t a Black Man. He isn’t a white man. He is just a person. Until he accepts himself as he is he can never find G-d. All he is doing is whistling in the dark to scare the monsters away. Unfortunately, he is carrying a lot of other confused people with him. Someday, he, as all of us do, will face the reality of who we are and who G-d is.

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- THERAPTURCOMES
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 11:41am
  Mitt Romney does not believe in the God of the bible, he believes in the God of the Mormon bible. The only reason why Mormons use the bible is to twist the verses to Mormon theology in order to prove themselves as a Christian of which they are not.
  
  All Mormons are already condemned for not believing upon the Christ of the bible.
  
  Report this comment
- BicPentameter
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 12:06pm
  @therapturecome I am a Mormon, Romney believe in the God of the Bible and in Jesus Christ. Who are you to judge and condemn us all?
  
  Let Readers view and decide for themselves.
  
  http://biblevideos.lds.org
  
  Report this comment
- THERAPTURCOMES
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 12:40pm
  BICPENT
  
  Oh so you want to post videos, well I can do that to but first let me explain for people why your videos fall apart.
  
  You can post all the videos you want showing Christ in the bible but what most don’t understand is that is the HOOK that cults use.
  
  It is not until they hear the part about Jesus being a created spirit being that is spirit brother to Lucifer that your understanding of whom Christ is, is exposed.
  
  Point for point I can show you detail after detail that Mormonism contradicts the BIBLE about whom or what Christ is.
  
  But lets me share a video for all of you whom wish to earn and understand Mormonism is a satanic cult that pretends to be Christian
  
  The video below is over an hour long that details in great detail why Mormonism is a cult and NOT Christianity
  
  http://youtu.be/G1mFdO1wB08
  
  Report this comment
- etoddt
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 1:12pm
  @THERAPTURCOMES
  
  That’s extreme.
  
  You’ve just called people you don’t even know cultists and satanic, and you attempted to post (and I’m glad it was removed) a video you say was designed to tear down other peoples’ faith.
  
  Why is it that people think they’re doing the work of God by spreading hate and anger? Islamic jihadists do exactly the same thing… they just keep going until they kill someone.
  
  I think Jesus would ask you if you’re pursuing the right path.
  
  Report this comment
- SpiderPig
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 1:32pm
  @TheRaptureComes
  
  From what I can gather, you worship the Bible more than you worship God. Do you really believe that God is limited to what is in the Bible?
  
  Report this comment
- THERAPTURCOMES
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 1:40pm
  SPIDERPIG
  
  The bible is GOD BREATHED, The bible is the sole authority, The bible is REVELATION to man.
  
  If you teach anything other than the bible then you are teaching lies.
  
  All cults have extra biblical writings by people that claim to have extra revelation and therein lies the problem.
  
  You will not find truth outside of the written word of God. I worship the author of the bible
  
  Report this comment
- Just Here
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 12:36am
  @Rapture
  
  just a theoretical question-
  If God came to you now and gave to you revelation to the world-
  -based on what you just said-
  would you believe it? and act on it?
  
  According to you, since it’s not in the bible, it cannot be true, thus you shouldn’t act on it.
  
  Also, i cannot recall any verse in the bible stating that anything else taught about the Gospel cannot be true…
  Mind providing me that verse?
  
  Report this comment
- THERAPTURCOMES
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 2:09am
  JUST HERE
  
  Gal 1:8-9
  
  If any man, spirit or angel brings another gospel another Christ then they are accursed.
  
  The Revelation has been given, I am no prophet and if I had an encounter with a man, spirit, angel or a being claiming to be God I would check all said with scriptures BEING A BEREAN Acts 17:11
  
  We have the finished work of the bible
  
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- Just Here
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 6:06pm
  @ Rapture
  
  Well, i did ask if God, and you know it is God, decided to give you revelation.
  If perhaps he told you the bible was incomplete?
  Then what?
  would you believe?
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 18, 2012 at 11:31pm
  @therapture
  That same chapter in Acts describes what you and theother are up to here. Tell me what you think:
  
  “But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar” (lol at lewd fellows of the baser sort, does that not describe some of your friends on here?)
  
  “But when the Jews of Thessalonica had knowledge that the word of God was preached of Paul at Berea, they came thither also, and stirred up the people.”
  
  Moving with envy, trying to set people in an uproar, stirring up people. You got the right chapter when you were describing yourself, just the wrong verses
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 19, 2012 at 6:13pm
  Why are you bashing @Rapture’s faith? It’s only bashing when someone else does it?
  
  Report this comment
- Joey8
  Posted on October 20, 2012 at 12:03am
  @theother
  “Why are you bashing @Rapture’s faith? It’s only bashing when someone else does it?”
  So that’s what you call what he puts, his faith? So your faith involves tearing other people down? That’s how you define faith? That explains a lot.
  You guys seem to think that spreading the gospel is the same thing as causing strife and stirring up people.
  The only thing we know about yours and raptures faith is that it is not the same as Mormons, because that’s all you guys are able to teach. You are the “Vote for me because the other guy sucks” politician that doesn’t have any policies of his own.
  It is pretty sad that you think that it was his faith that was being “bashed”.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 21, 2012 at 1:24pm
  I said: “Why are you bashing @Rapture’s faith? It’s only bashing when someone else does it?
  
  JOEY8 burbled: So that’s what you call what he puts, his faith? So your faith involves tearing other people down? That’s how you define faith? That explains a lot.
  You guys seem to think that spreading the gospel is the same thing as causing strife and stirring up people.”
  
  Raging hormones again? It will pass, young man, once you reach puberty. LoL But thank you for accusing me of the same thing that the Pharisees accused Jesus of. I’m nothing like Jesus but you sure are a lot like a Pharisee. LoL
  
  I told Rapture to get a girlfriend. You should too. Obsessive behavior is not good and you type way too fast with only one hand. LoL
  
  And you’re still whining about people supposedly “bashing your faith.” Get a grip on reality. Your Apostles challenged us to prove you wrong and we are answering the call.
  
  Cont…
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on October 21, 2012 at 1:25pm
  You bashed us first, claiming our Christian doctrines are unScriptural and unChristian and Mormons are the real Christians and we are only heathens who follow Satan. Then you whine that we are bashing you when we point out that Joseph Smith has led you astray. You have allowed yourselves to become minions of a false prophet and you militantly resist any effort to point that out to you. To the point of extremely unChristianlike and vitriolic attacks on the characters of those who attempt to reveal the stunning hypocrisy you so willingly embrace. So again and again, teacher, teach thyself.
  
  JOEY8″The only thing we know about yours and raptures faith is that it is not the same as Mormons, because that’s all you guys are able to teach. You are the “Vote for me because the other guy sucks” politician that doesn’t have any policies of his own.”
  
  You can bet it’s not the same. So because my arguments pretty much destroy everything you’ve put forth, you are trying to diminish that reality by placing me in the same category as Raptor and then assassinating both of our characters? Your intellectual dishonesty is STUNNING! Are you so naive to believe that people are too stupid to see through your agenda to promote Mormon doctrine at ANY cost?
  
  Cont.
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 21, 2012 at 1:28pm
  JOEY8″It is pretty sad that you think that it was his faith that was being “bashed”.
  
  I don’t think you know what you are talking about anymore than anyone else does. Maybe you should give it a rest JOEY8. I think your unguided compassion to hide the truth and promote the lie is driving you over the edge. You’re not making much sense anymore.
  
  Report this comment
P8riot
Posted on October 17, 2012 at 10:45am
Love it! I’m so glad Romney is being open about his faith and how it has shaped him for the better. Yes, I too am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but I firmly believe that almost all religions have good in them that can shape their members for the better. Romney made these comments to demonstrate not only his devotion to his fellow man, but also to show his devotion to religious freedom in contrast to Obama. Regardless of our doctrinal differences, we can all combine our similar values to re-build this great nation!

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- encinom
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 10:53am
  Do all Mormons have binders full of women, I guess it helps them pick additional wives or are Romney’s Binders filled with all the many wives that his relatives from Mexico took?
  
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- P8riot
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 2:22pm
  Sorry, but I’ve seen your posts over the years and I don’t get involved in name calling posts. If you would like to debate the virtues of religious freedom, feel free to jump in :)
  
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Wango
Posted on October 17, 2012 at 10:34am
“Pander to the yearlings, for they shall ride you upon their backs even unto the demise of their fortunes.” Galatians 7:11

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- Wool-Free Vision
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 11:01am
  Wango, whoa oh, oh, oh
  He’s for Obama, he’s pretty slow
  Wango’s a hatin’ slack-jawed troll-oh
  
  Wango, whoa oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
  He said, “One more whiiiiiine oughta get it
  One last cry ‘fore we quit it
  One from the commo-oh, oh, oh-ode”
  
  Wango, whoa oh, oh, oh
  He’s for the lies, he’s kinda slow
  Wango’s for Satan don’t you know-oh
  Wango, whoa oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
  
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- PaulreveresDarknight
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 11:04am
  Satan knows scripture too. He was there. Romney is doing it guys!! I watched with indy patients (women) they really are seeing the character of the man. PRAY for blessings people! God is still God. He still loves His children.
  
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- Wool-Free Vision
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 11:10am
  Satan might, but Wango doesn’t.
  
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right field
Posted on October 17, 2012 at 10:27am
Romney is not a phony. Romney’s life of giving and devotion to his family and community demonstrates his faith and belief in things that are above the ‘here and now’; Romney’s life view reaches beyond the simple pursuit of power and wealth; beyond the ‘simple minded’ human attempts to explain their existence. Romney does not believe that he should manipulate people based on race, income, religion, sexual preference, age or culture.
Romney does support the US Constitution – but we should remain ever vigilant and hold all politicians feet to the fire of freedom and the intent of our Constitution across every aspect of government.
We must defeat the Marxist and work everyday to educate those who do not understand the basic tenants of capitalism, free markets and individual responsibility and freedom.

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justangry
Posted on October 17, 2012 at 10:11am
“My passion probably flows from the fact that I believe in God — and I believe we’re all children of the same God,” he said. “I believe we have a responsibility to care for one another.” Mitt Romney

“Only I want to make something clear, I am not a conservative. I think today’s conservatives are WORSE than today’s liberals. If anyone destroys this country it will be the conservatives because they do not know how to preach capitalism. To explain it to the people because they do nothing but apologize and because they’re all altruists. They are all based on religious altruism, and on that combination of ideas you cannot save this country.” Ayn Rand.

Rand goes on to argue that all dictatorships are based in some type of altruism. Who is right? I think Ayn is. I’m still trying to figure things out myself. I wouldn’t be slightly interested in this stuff if our rights weren’t eroding so incredibly fast. I know I don’t feel a responsibility to take care of anyone. I mean really what Mitt is saying here is advocating collectivism and some form of socialism. Anyone that thinks our totally incompetent federal government can “take care of people” efficiently is bat crap crazy. There’s no authority in the Constitution for it. I mean the general welfare clause is in the preamble and not anyway binding. A lawyer should know that. What gives? Are we going really going to applaud his call for social justice? Come on people.

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- Silvertruth
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 10:40am
  You’re incorrect sir. Mormon’s are not collectivists. They believe that any concept of collectivism would require mankind to be capable of perfect love for one another, an impossible condition of altruism by today’s standards. So, knowing how ‘natural man is an enemy to God’, they would agree with Mrs. Rand. Mormon’s are the ultimate captialists believing in self reliance, personal achievement with family, work and faith. They have their own welfare system designed to support someone in need but get them back on their feet. That is what Gov. Romney was espousing when he said he sat across the table from people in need and helped them. It’s a 1:1 process. It’s about personal charity, not social justice. I know many, many Mormon’s and find their commitment to each other and their community very commendable. It is not based on altruism, but on real Charity.
  
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- justangry
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 10:52am
  “Mormon’s are not collectivists.” Are you serious? Perhaps you don’t know what collectivism is.
  
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- Veteran Patriot
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 12:45pm
  Angry
  By your comments you prove that you have no understanding of collectivism or mormonism. Collectivism stresses the goals of the group over the individual. Social justice and collective salvation are both securely hinged on this. The individual must subjugate their will to the collective.
  By contrast, mormonism stresses the importance of the individual. From there, the individual voluntarily contributes to the community through their own personal abilities, financial, intellectual and physical. The key here is individuality and voluntary choice that is not part of collectivism. Collectivism strives to fit everyone into the same mold. Nobody is allowed to be more successful than any other. Mormonism expects people to work hard for success. This, in turn, allows them the latitude to be more charitable (helpful) to those around them.
  People are much more charitable when it is voluntary than when it is mandated. It also helps when one is not shackled by the collective into being just another worker bee with the same bland future of all those around them in the hive.
  
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- justangry
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 12:59pm
  I never said Mormons are collectivists. I said ROMNEY’S STATEMENT was. I’m focusing on the individual, in this case Romney, while you two are focusing on the group (or collective) Mormons. I mean you put words into my mouth and say I don’t understand the concept of collectivism? WTF?
  
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- Veteran Patriot
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 1:20pm
  justangry
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 10:52am
  
  “Mormon’s are not collectivists.” Are you serious? Perhaps you don’t know what collectivism is
  
  Yes sir, you did say mormons are collectivists. These are your words. And I still contend that you know very little about mormonism.
  
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- Silvertruth
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 1:39pm
  I think you don’t know what collectivism is:
  
  collectivism (kəˈlɛktɪˌvɪzəm)
  — n
  1. the principle of ownership of the means of production, by the state or the people
  
  2. a social system based on this principle
  
  Mormon’s do not advocate common ownership by the state or people or advocate a social system espousing such. They believe the Founding Fathers of the United States of America were devinely inspired and wholly believe in a free market enconomy based on capitalism and individual achievment.
  
  Mitt Romney was not and never has advocated collectivism and Mormon’s do not advocate it.
  
  Social concepts can be intertwined with pure capitalist concepts, but you have to make the assumption that raw captialism must be tethered to a strong moral compass or it cannot survive… NO SOCIAL SYSTEM CAN (survive without a strong moral foundation). Socialist forms of government fail faster than capitalist ones in absence of morality due to the fact that people can defend their money and make smarter choices, but eventually it will fail.
  
  Mitt may be proposing adding morally based social systems to our capitalist system, which could be beneficial, but it creates a weak spot that is frequently exploited by politicians so we have to be careful with such constructs. Social Security, Welfare, and other entitlements are such weaknesses.
  
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- resme
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 2:16pm
  Here’s the debate I watched last night, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpMPu5p_QXU&feature=player_embedded
  
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- justangry
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 2:17pm
  You two are obnoxious. Silvertruth brought Mormons (as a collective) into the conversation not, I. As if Romney can’t be a collectivist because Mormons are some homogenous group of like thinkers. Then Silvertruth says Mormons (again the group) don’t believe in collectivism. Except Harry Reid would be a perfect example of how it’s a fallacy to lump ALL Mormons into a group. I merely suggested the first sentence of his initial response was collectivist in nature in my response to him.
  
  Now my original post quoted Romney as saying “My passion probably flows from the fact that I believe in God — and I believe we’re all children of the same God,” he said. “I believe we have a responsibility to care for one another.”
  
  That statement is collectivist BS. I don’t have the responsibility to care anyone but myself and people I chose to care for. When the government forces me to care for others against my will it’s socialism and like Ayn Rand said it’s based on religious altruism.
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 4:42pm
  Actually Romney’s statement that we all believe in the same God is patently unscriptural regardless of who you ask. According to “official” Mormon doctrine there was a complete falling away of the Christian Church, and any other god than the newly defined Mormon god is a false god.
  
  From a Bible perspective there is only one God and He is eternal and unchanging and has told us specifically how to worship Him and any manor or method beyond that made valid by God Himself as explained in the Bible is considered idol worship.
  
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- justangry
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 5:09pm
  @theotherberean, Believing in God is irrelevant here other than it tells you where the following comes from (religious altruism) “I believe WE have a responsibility to care for ONE ANOTHER.” (emphasis added) I don’t want to be included in his WE because he’s talking about more wealth distribution. I mean are you all just playing devil’s advocate or do you really not understand?
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 6:00pm
  What are you talking about? Believing in God is the topic.
  
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TEXASGRANNY73
Posted on October 17, 2012 at 9:54am
She asked. He told. I believe. He is a good man. And like the song says “they’re hard to find.” A diamond in the rough.

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- Gonzo
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 10:02am
  Nothing rough about Mitt. He’s very polished and I mean that as a compliment.
  
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- Wango
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 10:32am
  Yes, polished. All buffed and shiny and plasticene. I hear his farts smell like soap.
  
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- justangry
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 10:56am
  LOL Wango… There’s a bunch of people here that would line up to sniff’em too. I mean we know the Blaze staff has their noses so far stuck up his rectum they’d know. Is what Wango said true.
  
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- Gonzo
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 10:59am
  You probably have first hand knowledge of Obama’s farts.
  
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- TEXASGRANNY73
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 11:24am
  You got that right. He is polished and true class. However, you must be stupid with an inability to read and chew gum at the same time. I WROTE a good man is hard to find and so is a diamond in the rough. Duh.
  Let me elucidate and educate. Usually a person is the product of good parenting. It doesn’t “just happen” that diamond got to be shiny (got to be is Texas jargon) and a personal responsibility towards self and other people. He wears his glitter well and handsome to boot (more jargon). Get over yourself. In the scheme of things you are “just” another commenter in the life of chair sitters (some being empty). I have a disposition and predilection to arguing but simply have other things to do today thus you will be talking to the hand if you respond.
  
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- TEXASGRANNY73
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 11:26am
  My response was @Gonzo first statement.
  
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- TEXASGRANNY73
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 11:32am
  @Gonzo About Wango and Just Angry. Lint. Just brush it off. There, now. All spiffy again. Nothing high class there, there.
  
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- Gonzo
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 12:40pm
  Actually Granny, you wrote: “And like the song says “they’re hard to find.” A diamond in the rough.” Sure sounds to me like you’re calling him a diamond in the rough.
  
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- justangry
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 5:19pm
  TexasGranny, Yeah just brush me off while in this piece Romney basically admitted he’s a socialist too. Wango is funny. Gonzo is funny. I don’t have to agree with their politics to appreciate that. Though I imagine Wango and I both think the wars are BS and that some of you values voters are fascists.
  
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kickagrandma
Posted on October 17, 2012 at 9:52am
Was anyone in the audience on GOD’s side?

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- Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 10:07am
  I imagine God and Jesus and the angels.
  
  This shows a truth on the matter between the candidates – Romney demonstrated his faith by his deeds and words; Obama only showed his own beilef that HE is god (in lower case letters).
  
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Hanner
Posted on October 17, 2012 at 9:48am
Romney speaks of God openly and unashamedly, Obama has made it a point to reject God in any public setting. His Democratic platform completely erased God out of it until a public outcry made him re-insert it. This baby-killing, gay rights supporting, God hating, obstructionist, liar will soon be thrown out of the White House and it can’t be soon enough.

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Tri-ox
Posted on October 17, 2012 at 9:48am
This was a very good moment, but, these were not actually “closing remarks” – there WERE NO “closing remarks” – this was part of his answer to his final question. The town hall format is always a mess and last night was no different – this is the worst format for a presidential debate – especially with a left-wing moderator running interference for one of the candidates.

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Gonzo
Posted on October 17, 2012 at 9:46am
Obama is his own god Mitt. He’s also the god of a lot of mindless Americans. The true God is removing the scales form a lot of thier eyes though.

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huey6367
Posted on October 17, 2012 at 9:46am
I thought that was great of Romney. It showed a humbleness. A perception of “I’m just like you”. A vision of he is real and won’t lie to the people to push his ideologies.

Obama, on the other hand, tilts his head back with a smugness as if to look down his nose at people. An “I am better than you and I know what is best for you”. Americans don’t like being told they don’t know what is best for themselves.

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RIGS
Posted on October 17, 2012 at 9:44am
ROMNEY tells the truth about his faith. MAYBE OBAMA SHOULD DO THE SAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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soybomb315_II
Posted on October 17, 2012 at 9:42am
it was shocked to hear it because mitt doesnt talk about it much in these kind of debates. He even talked about his missionary work which was dangerous stuff because he got Vietnam War deferments in order to be a missionary in France.

I guess he was playing to the people who are skeptical about mormonism?

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- Wool-Free Vision
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 10:25am
  I think he was just being as open and sincere with the American people as he could possibly be. The truth has no agenda and should be easily relatable to anyone who appreciates full disclosure and open-faced honesty, something that has been lacking for a few years in all elected officials.
  
  I think that is also what people find so refreshing about Paul Ryan. While you may not agree with some of their positions, it is nice to see someone look you in the eye, without a teleprompter, and speak – not recite – straight from the heart with genuine sincerity and passion. Discerning Americans have never seen this from our current President. Even when he is speaking about things he really is passionate about, he is doing it with cold calculation and pretentious inflections and dialects.
  
  That’s why Sarah Palin was so popular. And Allen West. Marco Rubio, and so many other Tea Party Conservatives. Because they speak Conservatism straight from the heart, not from some talking points bulletin, so you feel like you really know who they are.
  
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- Sonia Francisco
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 2:10pm
  @ Soy Just a clarification here. All Mormon males are expected to serve a mission, if they are able to. Mitt did not seek a military deferment to get out of serving in Vietnam; He would have served a mission at that time, regardless. And I suspect that had the timing not been what it was, he would have gone to Vietnam and served honorably there as well.
  
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- The-Monk
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 2:25pm
  Hi Soybom315,
  
  Gary Johnson will be on TheBlazeTV (GBTV) for an hour tonight at 7pm EDT.
  
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mrunner
Posted on October 17, 2012 at 9:42am
That was a beautiful close for Romney. Compassion and a drive for positive change. It became very clear the hearts of the candidates with Romney’s close- then the nasty attack filled close that Obama offered- no hope or change there- just attack and try to vilify. I think I will go with the one who walks with God.

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- ModerationIsBest
  Posted on October 17, 2012 at 9:47am
  Yup, because using Romney’s own words is “vilifying”
  
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