
Photo Credit: IRS
The ongoing drama between the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) and American churches over government regulations and tax exempt, 501(c)(3) status forges on. Earlier this month, pastors came together for “Pulpit Freedom Sunday,” an effort to challenge current tax regulations that forbid them from explicitly endorsing candidates from the pulpit.
While the faith leaders aren’t looking to become hubs of political activism, they partake in the annual event to argue that the government shouldn’t be controlling — or curtailing — pastoral messaging. The goal of the project is to incite the IRS to investigate (participating pastors mail videos of their politicized sermons to the IRS) churches on these grounds so that the “Johnson Amendment,” which hampers church’s rights to endorse candidates, can be challenged in court.
Interestingly, just weeks after 1,000 pastors participated in the effort, the IRS has temporarily suspended church audits while amendments to the regulatory structure are considered. On his blog “Religion Clause, Howard Friedman, professor of law emeritus at the University of Toledo, explained this change, which is apparently based upon a 2009 court case — and an influx of complaints against churches that have become too politically active:
BNA Daily Report for Executives dated 10/22/2012 (subscription required) reports that the the Internal Revenue Service has temporarily suspended tax audits of churches pending final adoption of IRS rule changes to clarify which high level Treasury official has authority to make a determination under IRC Sec. 7611 that there are reasonable grounds to begin a church tax inquiry…At an American Law Institute Continuing Legal Education conference, IRS speaker Russell Renwicks, area group manager from the Mid-Atlantic region of the Tax-Exempt and Government Entities division, said the IRS has been bombarded with complaints about churches becoming involved in the elections, but it has been unable to respond even to potentially egregious cases. The rule changes are necessitated by a 2009 Minnesota federal district court ruling…
“We are holding any potential church audits in abeyance,” Renwicks told BNA.com, going on to say that even the egregious cases are being held until final rules are finalized.
The decision to suspend inquiries, as noted in Friedman’s analysis, stems from a February 3, 2009, court ruling in which the IRS lost a legal battle with the Living Word Christian Center in Brooklyn Park, Minnesota. The IRS began investigating the church in April 2007 after it came to light that the Rev. Mac Hammond had endorsed U.S. Rep. Michele Bachmann from the pulpit. This action, if corroborated, violates the Johnson Amendment and is, thus, not permitted for churches under current tax law.

Photo Credit: ShutterStock
While investigating the endorsement allegation, the IRS also found that the church had leased planes owned by Hammond and that the pastor borrowed money from the house of worship, which later forgave a portion of his debt, The Chronicle of Philanthropy reported at the time. This led the IRS to question the church’s 501(c)(3) status. The government then requested documentation from Living Word Christian Center — an action that was challenged in court.
In the end, a judge ruled that the church didn’t have to comply with the IRS summons, because it did not come from a government official of sufficient rank. At the time, the Chronicle of Philanthropy wrote, “Some tax-law experts have said that the IRS’s defeat could spur challenges to audits by other churches and force the IRS to engage in a lengthy, formal rule-making process to determine who has the authority to order an investigation into a church’s finances.”
The government is now attempting to solidify the regulations that led to this courtroom loss. The current IRS rules read, in part, “Before a notice of church tax inquiry can be sent, the Designated Official must ‘reasonably believe’ it is necessary. Congress believed such high-level approval of the initial contact is essential to achieving its purposes in enacting IRC § 7611. This reasonable belief must be based on facts and circumstances recorded in writing.”
So far, it seems the experts were right, specifically when it comes to the amount of time it has taken the government to address the issue. In August 2009, Friedman wrote a previous post about this case; the debate and official policy-making is yet to be settled:
BNA Daily Report for Executives [subscription required] reports that the Internal Revenue Service, in proposed regulations that will be published in tomorrow’s Federal Register, is attempting to clarify which high level Treasury official has authority to make a determination under IRC Sec. 7611 that there are reasonable grounds to begin a church tax inquiry…The Code section, in an attempt to obtain an objective appraisal of the need for this type of delicate examination, requires that a “reasonable belief” determination be made by an official whose “rank is no lower than that of a principal Internal Revenue officer for an internal revenue region.” A 1998 IRS reorganization created confusion over who that official should be. In February, a Minnesota federal district court held that the Director of Exempt Organization Examinations was not a high enough official to satisfy the statutory requirement…The new regulations propose giving the authority to the Director of Exempt Organizations…reports that there are likely to be many comments from the non-profit sector on the proposal.
Now, it seems that rule-making process is in full bloom. Three years after Friedman wrote about the proposed changes, nothing official is on the books and the IRS is suspending church inquiries while it attempts to make clarifications. For a full history of the Johnson Amendment and the controversial issue of tax law as it pertains to American churches, read this.
Church image property of ShutterStock.com.
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Comments (78)
ObamaForward_OverTheCliff
Oct. 23, 2012 at 4:59am“IRS Suspends ‘Politicized’ Church Tax Audits Until New Regulations Are Finalized”
UPDATE:
“IRS Suspends ‘Politicized’ Church Tax Audits Until IRS Disbandment Is Finalized”
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Mr.buff1959
Oct. 23, 2012 at 3:13am@pigswilneverfly. Im, with you. well said.
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RaydocX
Oct. 22, 2012 at 10:15pmthe law was applied unintentionally to churches if at all. it has not been pursued, or the Westboro Baptists that picket funnerals would have been put out of business long ago..
besides, it was O that declared war on the church over contraception, so he had to expect push back
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maryann72961
Oct. 22, 2012 at 9:23pmFreedom of speech is what this is about, if people are filing complaints that their church is violating tax exempt laws by preaching from the pulpit, then may I suggest to those people, find another church. I don’t believe this is the case, and feel these so called complaints are lies to push another strictor agenda so supress freedom of speech
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Mr.buff1959
Oct. 23, 2012 at 2:55amThank you well said.
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noslave
Oct. 22, 2012 at 9:22pmlike slave days churches were used for secret meeting to recuit followers for revolution against slave owners,muslims use mosques to recruit soldiers in their holy war??im sure rev wright dosent just preach gods work??the only one getting screwed by obama and his crew of lap dogs, is the catholic churches and others who disagree with the present communist agenda.
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Individualism
Oct. 22, 2012 at 5:26pmif its non profit, it shouldn’t be taxed, if it is for profit it should be.
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Gourdy
Oct. 22, 2012 at 6:07pmI wish it were that simple. Look at the tax-exempt “prosperity gospel” type churches of Eddy Long, Paul and Jan Crouch, Joel Olsteen, etc, etc. They take money from their flocks and live like kings. It seems to me they profit handsomely!
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Hanner
Oct. 22, 2012 at 6:33pmThe notification requirement set forth in IRC 508(a) is subject to exceptions and these are listed in IRC 508(c). There is a MANDATORY EXCEPTION to notice which is applicable to (1) CHURCHES, their integrated auxiliaries, and conventions or associations of churches or (2) any organization, other than a private foundation, the gross receipts of which in each taxable year are normally not more than $5000…..
Any church that seeks tax exemption from the IRS is STUPID!!!!!! Churches are automatically tax exempt according to the above IRS rule. Churches DO NOT need 501c3. Nothing more than the blind leading the blind.
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Prosecute_Constitutional_Treason_In_Washington
Oct. 22, 2012 at 6:39pmMost commentors on this site do not know the rules. CHURCHES DO NOT NEED 501C3 TAX EXEMPT STATUS TO BE NON PROFIT STATUS. The Constitution provides this right.
Before 501C3′s churches were tax free. The difference is a 501C3 provides alot of tax breaks for pastors you and I don’t get. Read the rules.
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Gourdy
Oct. 22, 2012 at 6:48pmProsecute, what articles/sections in the Constitution automatically give churches that? I’d like to look that up!
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Prosecute_Constitutional_Treason_In_Washington
Oct. 22, 2012 at 7:03pm@GOURDY
People like Joel Olsteen do pay taxes. You need to be educated sir. Either you are a troll or you lack knowledge.
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Gourdy
Oct. 22, 2012 at 7:24pmProsecute, both Lakewood Church and Joel Osteen Ministries are 501(c) tax exempt organizations. I just looked it up – how’s that for education?!
And that Constitution passage that gives churches tax exempt status……??
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Secret Squirrel
Oct. 22, 2012 at 4:56pm.
“Let me help, I speak jive”
“Yo, homie, ain’t gonna be no heat come down on da rev’s till after
Obama be president again.”
“You’re welcome.”
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Wango
Oct. 22, 2012 at 4:34pmAny church willing to forego its tax exempt status is free to promote any party or candidate. But you can’t have it both ways, which is a tough message for church folks. They always want it both ways – all the benefits and none of the sacrifices. Bet hedgers. Backsliders. Affronts to the God of creation. Repent, soul stealers, for your day of judgment is nigh, and right now you;re not looking too good.
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The-Monk
Oct. 22, 2012 at 4:43pmHey wango….
Media Matters for America is organized as a tax exempt 501(c)3 organization.
Want to file a complaint? Click here;
http://nation.foxnews.com/media-matters/2011/06/27/want-file-irs-complaint-against-media-matters-click-here
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L.B.Stephens
Oct. 22, 2012 at 5:00pmOur Lord Jesus Christ said his true followers would be no part of the world. – John 17:1-26
If they remain separate from the world’s politics, then they have nothing to worry about with this IRS action to tax them for their worldly involvements.
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The-Monk
Oct. 22, 2012 at 5:12pmHey wango,
Lets hear what your Queen has to say about Pastors and Churches getting involved in passing Bills….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpdbk-CzZ48
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Prosecute_Constitutional_Treason_In_Washington
Oct. 22, 2012 at 6:40pmMost people do not know the rules.
Most commentors on this site do not know the rules. CHURCHES DO NOT NEED 501C3 TAX EXEMPT STATUS TO BE NON PROFIT STATUS. The Constitution provides this right.
Before 501C3′s churches were tax free. Read the rules.
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Prosecute_Constitutional_Treason_In_Washington
Oct. 22, 2012 at 6:48pmWhy do to people in love require a marriage certificate to tell them they are married? A marriage is a three party contract between God, the man, and the women. Why does the gov. **** in on a love relationship? If you are getting married refuse the certificate. Even your preacher may refuse to marry you since he is state run and told how he can marry. I would refuse the certificate. Your oath to God is what is important. The State is just a vile wicked villian of satan.
To take this a step further I would refuse to get SS numbers for your new borns. Why should a new born be given a corp. titled paper owned by the gov.. That’s right. You do not own your birth certificate. The gov. owns it. It is your childs corp. registered name to transact business like be taken to court by the gov. Refuse this nonsense. We are to be free. No one needs a SS or a marriage certificate. Society is sick.
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Wango
Oct. 22, 2012 at 8:11pmTHE MONK . . . I thought we were talking about churches. No matter . . . The Heritage Foundation is also a 501(c)3. . . .You were saying? I know what I was saying . . . thank you for your service,
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PaxInVeritate
Oct. 22, 2012 at 11:04pmL.B.STEPHENS… we are to be the light of the world. In the world of politics (particularly when world politics involves itself in moral issues that directly effect the church) that means our morals and values are to be called into play. The only way that happens is if the pastor familiarizes himself/herself with the issues, ballot measures and candidate(s) and helps the congregation to do the same. If that means that the only time is from the pulpit so be it. If there are those who disagree with what is presented, all they need to do is make an appointment with the pastor and discuss the issue.
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skiz
Oct. 22, 2012 at 4:07pmThe commies are coming out of the woodwork! The best way to stop this is for churches to stop getting tax exempt status. Every since they started that, they have been owned by the government. It is a pastors duty to warn his flock against ones that will cause them evil!
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Gourdy
Oct. 22, 2012 at 4:14pmHmmm…what church currently getting exempted from paying taxes is going to go for that? It’s just another form of government entitlement, and groups — as well as people — get addicted to it. I agree with you, but the churches will fight it.
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JohnQTaxpayer
Oct. 22, 2012 at 4:38pmThe hammer and sickle comes out after Obama Se Tung wins re-election, and churches doors will be chained shut.
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Duddio
Oct. 23, 2012 at 12:54amFor the uninitiated, churches in America have been tax-exempt since before our nation was formed, all during our history, and even after the IRS was created, churches have been tax-exmpt by default. There is no law, regulation, or statute that requires a church to apply for or be recognized by the government or IRS as tax-exempt. Churches are tax-exempt by default.
So, the government doesn’t GIVE tax-exempt status to churches, just as it doesn’t GIVE us the right to free speech, religious expression, or freedom of the press. Those are rights inherently ours that the government is to protect and not infringe upon. So it is with churches and taxes. It is theirs by heritage and right, not by government permission.
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cessna152
Oct. 22, 2012 at 3:49pmWhat the IRS is saying is “we’ll control your freedom of speech but we’re waiting until the elections are over”.
So you liberals like fake exrepublicsheep are for the IRS controlling freedom of speech? Explain please…
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Gourdy
Oct. 22, 2012 at 4:00pmI think the simplest way for churches to skirt what they believe to be a rights violation is to skip tax-exempt status entirely — they then are free to support any individual candidate they choose. I think it’s high time to review all the 501(c) exemptions. Personally, I don’t want my tax dollars supporting nutjob groups such as the Westboro Baptists or radical mosques. How can we say what religious organizations are “good” and which are “bad”?
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cessna152
Oct. 22, 2012 at 4:11pmVery true gourdy. Government should not be involved in marriage, Church policies, Planned parenthood and so much more. The Federal government has not business but protecting borders and making sure the states work fairly with each other.
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chershaw8
Oct. 22, 2012 at 3:15pmHeare ye, heare ye, if churches never took a political stance, this country would not exist.
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Exrepublisheep
Oct. 22, 2012 at 3:25pmSo I guess Churches are part of the disgusting 47%.
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The-Monk
Oct. 22, 2012 at 3:44pm@Exrepublisheep
Churches are a lot like the grocery stores here in Florida in one respect.
The money that Churches receive from their patrons has already been taxed and the Church doesn’t tax it again just the food I buy here. I paid taxes on the money I spend at grocery stores and they don’t tax it again.
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IntheDirt
Oct. 22, 2012 at 3:44pm@EXRebub
Why do yo thing the 47% who do not pay taxes are disgusting?
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Cavallo
Oct. 22, 2012 at 3:44pmPolitics are in everything. Soon it will be speak out against Gay Marriage, the IRS will crush you, speak out on family planning, the IRS will crush you (that is.. if you take the stance against what the government says is correct). The government already demands that chaplins and other religious figures abandon their faith when “ministering” to government employees and soldiers. The State will dictate what you may say in the pulpit.
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SocialistSlayer
Oct. 22, 2012 at 3:46pmNo but you are you disgusting Communist !
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The-Monk
Oct. 22, 2012 at 3:46pmEdit;
“…just like the food I buy here”
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Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Oct. 22, 2012 at 3:10pmTranslation – the IRS is under orders to hold off with their politcal persecution by the regime of Obama until the elections are over, then all hades will break loose.
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progressiveslayer
Oct. 22, 2012 at 3:14pmYes indeed that’s it,the Marxist mulatto thinks he’ll win so he can continue his assault on Christians.
Luckily for us taxpayers we won’t have to deal with the heathen after Jan.20th.
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KNEP
Oct. 22, 2012 at 3:27pmI’m sure you’re absolutely right.
And, when the persecution of Christian churches begins, I hope people have been taking lots of videos of all the churches (democrat leaning) in which they have blatantly promoted one side of the aisle, and in which many democrat candidates have spoken/campaigned, right in the church.
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Cavallo
Oct. 22, 2012 at 3:39pmPlease thank a vet for fighting for your… lol.. right of .. snicker… free speech. Make sure you watch what you say when or where or the IRS will come for you. They can make sure your life is awful and seize property without due process. You are guilty until proven innocent. Land of the free? Not for a very long time.
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Prosecute_Constitutional_Treason_In_Washington
Oct. 22, 2012 at 3:04pmOpen questions to the pastors in America………
Why do you keep the 501C3 tax exempt status when you can be tax exempt without a 501C3?
Why do you allow the IRS to dictate what you can say in the pulpit? Why do you allow the LORD to take 2nd place to the gov. in what can be said from the pulpit? Why do you leave your sheep with a lack of leadership of relevant issues because of silence in the pulpit? Why have you allowed satan to gain a hold on your churches teaching from the pulpit? What would the LORD have to say about your 501C3?
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KNEP
Oct. 22, 2012 at 3:29pmWhy don’t you tell them how to be exempt without the 501C3 tax exempt status?
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RichD
Oct. 22, 2012 at 4:17pmThe tax exemption on churches and deductability of contributions is automatic both under the Constitution and the IRS determination because of the “free exercise” of religion.
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colt1860
Oct. 23, 2012 at 5:46pmChurches that get special tax exemption from the IRS are those that incorporate, they become legal entities. As stated before, churches have always had automatic tax exemption status here in the US. Just don’t become a corporation. However, telling churches or any tax exempt org that they can’t speak certain things is cencorship and violates the first ammendment.
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The-Patriot
Nov. 2, 2012 at 11:16amI am a pastor, and I would like to answer your questions.
Q1) A 501 (c)3 allows any contibutions to be tax deductable. This eliminates the government taxing the income of a church member twice (once for income and once for supporting their church).
Q2) I do not allow the government to dictate what I preach and teach from the pulpit; I preach what the Word of God declares about issues and then let people choose themselves which canidate supports those issues.
Q3) I do not allow the IRS to take place over our Lord Jesus Christ, as He has the preeminence in all things. it is not “God-Family-Church” it is that in all our duties and calling Christ is preeminent (By-the-way God instituted Government).
Q4) I preach and teach current issues to our church from a Biblical worldview. We are currently very acitve in the Pro-Marriage Amendment in Minnesota etc. Please don’t assume that people are ignorant to the issues; there are very intelligent people involved already.
Q5) It is not Satan who takes the hold on the teaching of the church; it is the sinful nature of people that corrupt the Word of God.
Q6) The Lord Jesus has already told us to obey them that have the rule over you. We will adhere to the government as long as they are not infringing on the God-given rights of an individual.
This is not an issue about pastors leading their flock; it is an issue of whether their is a willingness in the hearts of Christians to pay the price to bring our nation back
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The-Patriot
Nov. 2, 2012 at 11:20amI am a pastor. Incorporation protects the individuals in the church. For example, if someone decides to sue a lady who worked in the nursery for abuse to a child (or something of that nature), the individual could be sued if the church was not incoporated. If the church IS incorporated they suit must be against the institution, not the individual.
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progressiveslayer
Oct. 22, 2012 at 3:02pmSo how does an illegal agency have the authority to make a rule about anything? Our tax system is so screwed up and it’s by design by the way to make people feel someone isn’t paying their ‘fair share’.
The government has to foster that idea among the masses to continue their class warfare BS,it helps them at election time. The IRS’s days are numbered folks one way or another that illegal department will be abolished,fair tax flat tax whatever you want to call it it’s coming. I personally think all taxation is theft but I have no say so I just get to pay the bill like the rest of you serfs.
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taxpro4u03
Oct. 22, 2012 at 3:37pm“We just don’t KNOW, what we don’t know, until we know what we think we know just ain’t so.” — Capone shoulda had better tax LAWYERS — takes an ATTORNEY to really throw a monkey wrench into the system — If you MISSED The FreePac event in Orlando — here is the link – scroll down to Judge Napalitano’s soliloquy – PAY ATTENTION, and ‘question with boldness…’ psssst! YOU are Charlie Bucket – YOU have the Golden Ticket — While it IS true the Establishment ‘owes’ us a LOT of Federal Reserve notes – Seek understanding by allowing God to show you, and HONOR the blessing of knowledge by accepting the admonition He gives. Agent provocateurs CANNOT, with HONOR, be FIRST to ‘pull the lanyard.’
—->http://www.theblaze.com/stories/here-are-the-highlights-from-freepac-orlando-our-long-national-nightmare-is-about-to-be-over/
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Small World
Oct. 22, 2012 at 3:01pmFor My Liberty… Love “Ovomit”. Funny how everything has to wait until after the election.I’m sure it’s just a coincidence.
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Prosecute_Constitutional_Treason_In_Washington
Oct. 22, 2012 at 3:00pmChurches in America invited this satanic leadership by accepting 501C3 tax emempt status when they already had the right to tax exempt status under the Constitution and Bill of RIghts. Churches in America have been duped. Satan won the battle and now churches are trying to revert so they can speak out. Most churches now have a duel headship – the IRS or gov. and the LORD. GIVE BACK THE 501C3 tax exempt status. Some churches have and there is no issue with giving it back.
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PIGSWILLNEVERFLY
Oct. 22, 2012 at 6:51pmCorrect, everyone has freedom of speech in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights! No need for this tax exempt status…for freedom of speech is free. This tax exempt status is like a mafia threat insuring propaganda of the state is supreme.
I have the same exact problem with the civil rights act…everyone is already equal under our Constitution and Bill of Rights. We should have prosecuted those that were preventing people from being equal instead of creating a law that was already self-evident in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. All this new Act did was create some really, really bad new reverse discrimination laws like affirmative action and corrupt groups like aclu and southern poverty law. Just boon doogles for lawyers and corrupt judges to twist and pervert original intent. Prosecute Criminals and stop with more laws already!!
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ObamaForward_OverTheCliff
Oct. 23, 2012 at 5:13amPIGSWILLNEVERFLY – “All this new Act did was create some really, really bad new reverse discrimination laws like affirmative action and corrupt groups like aclu and southern poverty law.”
Excuse used, purpose accomplished. That’s the plan all along … in the 100 year Progressives(communists) destruction of America & her Liberty.
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cause_glen_said_so
Oct. 22, 2012 at 2:58pmend the exemption…churches are just political institutions attempting to take over the govenment and enforce belief
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Melvin Spittle
Oct. 22, 2012 at 3:25pmChurches are preaching to their own in the congregation. How does this threaten you? If I am a Romney supporter and my pastor endorses Obama based on scripture, I have the choice to leave and find a church that is in alignment with the Word of God. Do you have a problem with people putting God before man? If so, I hope you don’t loose sleep over it ’cause it will never stop.
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KNEP
Oct. 22, 2012 at 3:33pmYou must not go to church, or maybe you go to Rev. Wright’s church. MOST churches teach what the Bible says, in a fashion that works for them. The Bible sets out morals and standards that WORK for everybody, and upon which our nation was founded. Churches, IF they make political sounding statements, generally are relating issues to those Bible based morals and values, which are part of how a Christian is to live one’s life, and please the Lord. Try a good Bible based church, you might like it!
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cause_glen_said_so
Oct. 22, 2012 at 3:52pmwe are not talking about anything threatening me, we are talking about tax exept staus…pay attention
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Prosecute_Constitutional_Treason_In_Washington
Oct. 22, 2012 at 2:56pmWAKE UP CHURCH MEMEBERS. GIVE BACK THE 501C3 tax emempt status that dictates over whether some relevant truths will be taught in the pulpit. The LORDS headship has been compromised.
The easiet righeous resolution is to give back the IRS 501C3 tax exempt status and stop allowing the gov. to rule over the Lords church body. The Johnson Act is one of satans most vile acts committed to control God’s church body on earth and most pastors have fallen for it. The Church does not need a 501C3 tax exempt status to be tax free. Study this for yourself. 501C3 was meant to silence the pulpits in America after Johnson almost lost in Texas because of Christian voices in the pulpits of America. GIVE BACK YOUR 501C3 TAX EXEMPT STATUS. The headship of most churches has been compromised.
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SimpleTruths
Oct. 22, 2012 at 2:55pmThis is not a freedom of speech issue, churches can say or endorse whoever they want. Just don’t pretend your eligible for tax exempt status if you CHOOSE to do so.
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RichD
Oct. 22, 2012 at 4:27pmSimply false – the Constitution guarantees FREE exercise of religion. The exemption is automatic. See the IRS website – there is no need to register.
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randy
Oct. 22, 2012 at 2:54pmJust like when the bullied stands up to the bully, when the churches stand up to the IRS, they back down!
I will fight for anyone pastors right to endorse any candidate, right or left…..
Keep the government out of the churches!!!
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Prosecute_Constitutional_Treason_In_Washington
Oct. 22, 2012 at 2:54pmThe easiet righeous resolution is to give back the IRS 501C3 tax exempt status and stop allowing the gov. to rule over the Lords church body. The Johnson Act is one of satans most vile acts committed to control God’s church body on earth and most pastors have fallen for it. The Church does not need a 501C3 tax exempt status to be tax free. Study this for yourself. 501C3 was meant to silence the pulpits in America after Johnson almost lost in Texas because of Christian voices in the pulpits of America. GIVE BACK YOUR 501C3 TAX EXEMPT STATUS. The headship of most churches has been compromised.
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Gourdy
Oct. 22, 2012 at 3:02pmHow would you feel about a tax-exempt radical mosque preaching Sharia Law or other hard-line Muslim belief? It gets kind of slippery when we start thinking of tax-exemptions for beliefs other than our own.
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SimpleTruths
Oct. 22, 2012 at 2:52pmI have no problem with a church leader making a political endorsement or taking a political position, they just have to pay taxes like any other political group. Quit hiding behind Jesus’s robes.
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banjarmon
Oct. 22, 2012 at 2:52pmGet government OUT of Religion, But NOT RELIGION OUT OF GOVERNMENT!!!
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SimpleTruths
Oct. 22, 2012 at 3:03pmClassic circular logic at work.
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cause_glen_said_so
Oct. 22, 2012 at 3:04pmExactly…there is a wall of seperation but it only goes one way!!
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SimpleTruths
Oct. 22, 2012 at 3:50pmSo what religion shall we have be part of the government? Just one? All of them? Shall we have a State religion? Isn’t that what the Founders fought to get away from?
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colt1860
Oct. 23, 2012 at 6:48pmThe word Religion must be understood within context and meaning. It may mean an ecclesiastical organization, a certain general Faith, the form in which one worships, or certain universal principles and values. FOR THIS REASON, the first Ammendment specifically said, ESTABLISHMENTS of Religion. It did not say, Religion. What are establishments of religion? Ecclesiastical institutions.
James Madison, the father of the Constitution, referred to a “perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters”, and when speaking about Religion and Government, he referred to the “danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies”. There is a huge and major difference. The liberal tries to wash this distinction away for he does not understand that religion and faith in general was the fabric of society and of our lives during the time of the Revolution. There was nothing the Government could do take it’s influence away, whether in public or private, for it defined us. What our founders intended to do with the first Ammendment was to deny the Government the power to enact laws that created or adopted Priesthoods and Congregations and mandated Citizens to abide thereby. To ignore or be hostile to religious principles and values was not their intention.
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colt1860
Oct. 23, 2012 at 6:49pmGeorge Washington, said, in his Farewell Address (September 19, 1796), “Let it simply be asked where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in Courts of Justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that National morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.”
“On Monday last the Circuit Court of the United States was opened in this town. The Hon Judge [Supreme Court Justice] Paterson presided. After the Jury were impaneled, the Judge delivered a most elegant and appropriate charge… Religion and morality were pleasingly inculcated and enforced as being necessary to good government, good order, and good laws, for “when the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice”… After the charge was delivered, the Rev. Alden addressed the Throne of Grace in an excellent, well-adapted prayer.” – New Hampshire Newspaper from Portsmouth 1800.
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Mapache
Oct. 22, 2012 at 2:50pmHow about in the meantime they conduct an audit and evaluation of the tax exempt status of Media Matters.
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For my Liberty!
Oct. 22, 2012 at 2:49pmToo funny…..Are they going to investigate the churches that Ovomit has asked to endorse him? *crickets*
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HKS
Oct. 22, 2012 at 2:53pmHow about that rev. Wright, I’ll just bet he never gets political.
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johnjamison
Oct. 22, 2012 at 2:56pmIsn’t it funny that soon after black pastors started calling on their congregation to not support the pro gay Obama the corrupt bully democratic party starts attacking churches…….WELL GOOD LUCK THERE COMMANDER AND THIEF……Churches don’t need an IRS regulation to not pay taxes……they have a first amendment that states the government can’t touch a dime of church donation. FOR A CONSTITUTION LAW STUDENT HE DAMN SURE SEEMS TO HAVE NEVER READ IT
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