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Faith

6 Perspectives on the Most Important Issues to Religious People This Election Cycle (Abortion, Contraception & Iran)

Oct. 31, 2012 8:55am Billy Hallowell

6 Perspectives on the Most Important Issues to Religious People This Election Cycle

When it comes to faith and politics, some argue on the basis of the separation of church and state that the two must remain mutually exclusive. However, such a notion, in practice, seems difficult, particularly when it comes to public policy issues that either corroborate or conflict with individuals’ personal religious views.

From helping those in need to taking a stand on abortion, the tenets of theology and politics regularly converge in U.S. politics. To obtain a better understanding of where liberal and conservative people of faith stand, this week, Patheos asked a diverse pool of religious leaders and bloggers to describe the most important issues to them this election cycle.

The question, “What are the key issues at stake in this election for people of your tradition?,” yielded some fascinating results. Read them, below:

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6 Perspectives on the Most Important Issues to Religious People This Election Cycle

Photo Credit: Patheos.com

Real Clear Religion Founder Jeremy Lott: Last time, Barack Obama was awful on abortion and he hasn’t gotten any better. Obamacare could seriously impede the operation of Catholic institutions, medical and otherwise, with its mandates to finance things the church — and millions of Catholics right along with it — considers deeply immoral.

Obama was a little bit better on war, though he’s proved extremely disappointing on that front as well — committing the country to war with Libya without so much as a by-your-leave to Congress, for one. Obama hasn’t committed ground troops to any new theaters. Other than that, he’s been a disaster.

Mitt Romney professes to be better than Obama on abortion these days. Indeed it would be hard to be any worse. Unlike many pols who profess to be “personally opposed, but” on the issue, we know that Romney actually was personally opposed even when he didn’t want to change the law, because as a Mormon bishop he urged several women not to have abortions. Read the entire article…

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Atheist-Turned-Catholic Blogger Leah Libresco: During the debate, both Obama and Romney made proud reference to the “crippling sanctions” they supported imposing on Iran. Crippling is an awfully strong word, and it’s proper object there isn’t really the abstract idea of Iran. [...]

I led with the Iranian sanctions, because they stood out to me in the debate, probably because they actually got the adjective they deserved, instead of being entirely swaddled in rhetoric. Of course, the more canonical example for both parties disregard for life is the drone war and the kill list. These policies have been expanded under Obama and Romney has raised nary a peep in objection.

Again, this is a policy where the United States asserts an authority to assassinate anyone the president and a few other people see as a threat (or standing in proximity to a threat — remember any militant-aged boys are classified as confirmed militantsin the casualty reports). Citizenship and due process are easily waived. Read the rest of the article…

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Feminist Blogger and Professor Caryn Riswold: I stand in two traditions – Lutheranism and feminism…the social safety net feature of government is an essential issue for people in this tradition. Social security, Medicare, Medicaid, Pell grants, and the many ways in which Mitt Romney’s derided 47% relies on these programs at key points in life matter in this election. [...]

Both as a Lutheran and as a feminist, poverty and economic inequality are key issues that I am considering this election because of their impact on women, families, and their communities.

And given the political parties and their track records recently, the choice for me on election day will be very clear. Read the rest of the post…

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Oklahoma House of Representatives member Rebecca Hamilton: Something about Catholics picking out one issue and saying “That’s it! That’s the only thing you need to care about in this election!” seems wrong to me. I don’t think you can trim the Gospels down to an issue, or for that matter to an election, or the democratic process itself.

Following Christ means giving all of you, your whole life, and not just your vote. Too many people these days have convinced themselves that voting right is the equivalent to living right, and living right is all the grace or goodness any of us will ever need. My main complaint about that tidy little approach to Christianity is that I don’t believe it’s Christianity at all. [...]

Clearly, the one issue that threatens my Church, which is the Catholic Church, above all others is the HHS Mandate. Read the rest of the article here…

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Missouri School of Law Professor Joshua D. Hawley: Through the 1980s and ’90s, evangelicals sought to turn back the forces of secularization. Groups like the Moral Majority and the Christian Coalition pressed for laws recognizing Christianity’s unique place in American life, including laws that would allow prayer in public schools and Christian displays in public places. They advocated a constitutional amendment to overturn Roe v. Wade.

In the main, the idea was to resurrect America’s Christian identity, to win from the public and from the government recognition of “Christian values,” and reaffirmation of Christianity’s special place in American history and culture. The aim was, in a sense, to “convert” both society and government.

That approach is due for a rethink. For one thing, it depends on a Christian social hegemony that is likely lost for good. Believing Christians no longer constitute an overwhelming majority of the American public, nor do they occupy the commanding heights of culture, entertainment, and academia. As a sheer projection of demographic destiny, they are unlikely to do so anytime soon. Read the rest of the post…

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Photo Credit: Patheos.com

Christian Pastor Adrian Warnock: It might surprise you to know that in the UK we just don’t seem to feel our politics as strongly as you do. Few of us passionately and unequivocally support one party or the other. The notion that anybody would “register” as either a Conservative (most similar to your Republican) or Labour (similar to your Democrat) voter seems bizarre. When our last election came round, I don’t even know for sure how most of my friends voted!

Over here someone might be inclined towards the Conservatives, but admire the Labour Tony Blair as a leader. They might believe in abolishing abortion in almost all cases (a very common opinion among Evangelicals) but decide to vote Labour because they believe supporting spending more money on the poor and needy is a way of expressing Christian love. Few Evangelicals in the UK believe that supporting either party is a necessary consequence of their faith.

I look at your media, your political adverts, your adversarial debates, and I wonder, how long before your nation tears itself apart? Can either of the candidates unite the land? With your red states and blue states, it often seems to me like you are not a very United States at all! Read the rest…

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Read more perspectives on the most important issues this election cycle over at Patheos.com.

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Comments (75)

Max jones
Posted on October 31, 2012 at 8:47pm
FISCALLYCONSERVATIVESPIRITUALLYCOMPROMISED The numbers alone make your argument moot. But the result is the same: the third reich fell hard, as will the U.S.A……Once you lose the blessing, there is no going back without repentance….People like you can’t repent, for you see no need.

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Socially-Liberal-Fiscally-Moderate
Posted on October 31, 2012 at 8:24pm
As a Jew and as man with common sense, this is very insulting. Regardless of your views on abortion, there is no way it could ever be compared to the monstrosity that was the Holocaust.

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mandmsgirl
Posted on October 31, 2012 at 6:33pm
@ChrisDiamond
You are someone else’s property; you are God’s; therefore you do not have the right to take your life

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- TheCalmOne
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 7:33pm
  Which God are you referring to? Shiva? Odin?
  
  Report this comment
- Max jones
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 7:58pm
  YOUR LORD and MASTER is obviously Mephistopheles…….
  
  Report this comment
- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on November 2, 2012 at 11:16am
  I disagree, MANDMSGIRL. You do not have the right to assign me as property to anyone, much less to an entity that doesn’t exist.
  
  Report this comment
TCBlalock
Posted on October 31, 2012 at 3:34pm
Interesting Article, here’s a real time spin you can take. CBS Banned Me from there Facebook page for posting The Truth, derived from The Blaze!

Show your support and share your blaze comments of Truth and Liberty on this CBS News Page until after the election if you can! Thank You and my the Good Lord Bless You Richly!

Here’s the linkage….

https://www.facebook.com/KPHOCBS5NEWS?fref=ts

Patheos.com Users and Writers please Join in The American Way and Share the Truth with those that MOST NEED IT!!!

tcb

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- Max jones
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 7:10pm
  I am not allowed on facebook. I don’t mind.
  
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Konservative PUNK
Posted on October 31, 2012 at 2:57pm
MAX:
Also, there are many on the left who do not particularly care for Jews, but are militant when it comes to homosexuality. Many do not realize that aside from Jews, the Nazis also murdered gays, the mentally challenged, the physically challenged, and Communists. Whether they practiced homosexuality is irrelevant to the discussion about murdering innocent human life.

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Konservative PUNK
Posted on October 31, 2012 at 2:53pm
I didn’t ask if they practiced what they preached. Of course they were hypocrites. Adolf himself was part Jewish. The question is designed to make people think. Most rational people would condemn the civilian population who did not object to the actions of the Nazis, yet they do not condemn the atrocity taking place in this country. The Nazis only killed 11 million people. Abortion has killed over 50 million innocent Americans since 1973.

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Max jones
Posted on October 31, 2012 at 2:39pm
Actually Punk most of the Nazis were quite comfortable with homosexuality, and most of the high command were practitioners….look it up.

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Max jones
Posted on October 31, 2012 at 1:53pm
I guess I am a different type of Christian, in that I believe in Fighting evil, be it planned parenthood and Roe v. wade or Sharia law all over the world…..I think we ought to be working overtime to get all Christians out of islamist danger, and following Israel into war, against those openly threatening her survival. I believe the Church in this country is useless and immoral. The Gospel’s message is lost on most So-called Christians today.
Christians these days are mostly a bunch of cowards, not willing to take a stand on principle. Why? They don’t really know the Gospel, or teach the Gospel, or believe in the Gospel.
Christ, to these people is still a defensless lamb, but he returns with an ARMY and a “rod of iron”.
Christians I see let the system run roughshod over them….never defending the precepts…..and the church is actually at fault for letting Roe v. Wade continue unchallenged all these years. And being ‘Soft’ on the societal suicide of hedonism, led by the acceptance and normalization of homosexuality, and adultery. These social issues have negated any and all of the blessings we have had throughout our history…..It is YOU Laodiceans, who bear this blame. Now, reap what you have sown.

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- Konservative PUNK
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 3:04pm
  Christians should have every right to state and fight for what they believe. However, we should not and cannot force anyone to become Christians. This is what separates us from other faiths and governments which force their subjects to adopt their faith. We as Christians should glorify our God and live holy lives. Let the world compare our way of life to the way of the world, and let them decide their own fate. That is all God asks, and that is all we should ask. Nothing more, nothing less.
  
  Report this comment
- redletterchristian
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 5:40pm
  The early church lived under the most brutal empire the world has ever seen, yet for three hundred years they never picked up the sword. They believed and lived out what Christ taught. We love our enemies, we don’t return evil for evil. We die, we don’t kill. Yet, the more the Roman empire persecuted us, the more we grew. If we are not allowed to pick up the sword to defend the gospel, what cause is greater?
  
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- Max jones
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 7:27pm
  Punk wrote.
  “Christians should have every right to state and fight for what they believe. However, we should not and cannot force anyone to become Christians.”
  In fact, it can’t be done…..and is antithetical to all the precepts of Christianity. That is the reason we will face the coming global empire of satan, promising to solve all our problems, and bring peace and prosperity to the world. To be TRUSTED in the new age, the children of God are to be tested to find out if they, each one, loves the Lord, YVHV, more than life itself. And will reject the lies of the devil. Luke warm, “pew potato” christians, who ‘play church’ on Sunday and never try to understand the Key of David, and have been mislead into the Rapture doctrine, fail, and follow satan to perdition.
  Do not be deceived. http://theseason.yolasite.com/
  
  Report this comment
- Max jones
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 7:38pm
  REDLETTER Killing in defense of morality and righteousness, or in defense of life, is NOT a sin. Murder IS. Most ‘Christians’ never delve into the languages in which the scriptures were originally written, and therefore have many incomplete or distorted views of what they say. If you are using a KJV bible, get a “Strong’s” concordance. It helps in rightly dividing the Word.
  
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iriewoolf
Posted on October 31, 2012 at 1:38pm
Millions of Pro-Life people will sit this election out. The Republican platform is always compromise on abortion. Republicans campaign to collect Pro-Life money then implement “responsible” policies that always end with – And Then You Can Kill The Baby. Romney’s extensive Pro-Abortion and Pro-Homosexual record can be found at http://www.prolifeprofiles.com

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- JRook
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 1:58pm
  “conflict with individuals’ personal religious views” Says it all as they should be kept personal and matter only to your vote.
  
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- Konservative PUNK
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 2:06pm
  Do you know why the “Progressives” have been so successful? Because they take ground one inch at a time. Abortion for any reason is MURDER. Having said that, I also know that candidates who say that will have a very difficult time getting elected. Because they control the media, the schools, and the entertainment industry, the left has been very successful at controlling the discussion. They have managed to convince Americans that it’s a debate about liberty, choice, and a woman’s body. In truth it is about the murder of millions of innocent people, but that’s not what voters have been led to believe. If we want to affect change, we must fight fire with fire by educating the American public about abortion. Until that happens, we will have to publicly allow for incest, rape, and life of the mother, although these are extremely rare cases.
  
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- Max jones
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 7:45pm
  Wolf……this will help I am sure….http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5iUFAeExb8
  
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ChrisDiamond
Posted on October 31, 2012 at 11:42am
I think Christians/anti-abortionists should reconsider their pro-life monicker. I am also pro-life, but I do not value a fetus more than I value an infant, toddler, child, adolescent, or adult. That measn I do not feel any better about any one of these dying, or being killed by someone else’s choice. This is what happens in war. I am truly pro-life. Others who want to fight for and defend the right to life of a fetus (an honorable stance, and the right thing to do), but support the continued killing of innocents abroad for some false sense of security should perhaps change their monicker to pro-fetus. I think that would be a bit more honest.

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- justangry
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 11:50am
  Someone need to say it.
  
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- Prosecute_Constitutional_Treason_In_Washington
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 11:52am
  Excellant comment. If we have over 50% of America voting for Obummer, America is not religious because God is pro life. If we have most of America either voting Romney or Obummer, we are a nation of killers and willing to kill women, children, and working fathers in foreign lands by war. Ron Paul was the right choice so I say we are no longer a Godly nation. We are a bunch of killers.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 12:04pm
  I’m just sick of crowds of people cabaling behind the pro-life message when they are really only pro-fetus. They do not worry about the deaths of some 500,000 children in Iraq over the last 15 years due to our sanctions and warring. The blood from those deaths is on our hands, and these pro-life groups don’t give a damn about them. If they can just be born, then they are subject to whatever killing our politicians deem necessary for our ‘security.’
  
  I wonder, if some other nation was killing us, destroying our infrastructure, denying us medicines and vital materials, invading us, incarcerating our friends and families, labeling people who resisted as ‘terrorists’, and then bossing us all around from behind the barrel of a gun in our own towns, how long would we wait to start fighting back if our governments did nothing to help us?
  
  But, no… I’m wrong. That has NOTHING to do with the trouble we have in the middle east. They hate us for our freedoms, and because the Qu’uran told them to kill the infidel. Well, our government has taken away our freedoms (and they still hate us), and we’ve made their holy mandate easier by supplying them a continuous batch of targets through our occupation. Meanwhile, we’ve spent ourselves into bankruptcy almost (one of bin Laden’s goals), and we are no safer than we were before.
  
  If you’re pro-life, then be PRO-LIFE… not pro-fetus. End the wars.
  
  Report this comment
- justangry
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 12:16pm
  Not to mention our troops that are killing themselves because of their f**ked up blood lust.
  
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- Max jones
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 2:46pm
  Chris Diamond you are not a Gospel believing Christian you are a COWARD, Hiding pathological fear behind a facade of outraged “righteousness”. The anti-christ will welcome you with open arms.
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 4:55pm
  LoL Good point @MAX
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on November 2, 2012 at 11:21am
  Aww, MAX. If you knew what I did for a living, you probably wouldn’t call me a coward. You did, however fail to retort or refute what I said about the difference between Christian pro-fetusness and really being pro-life. If you support the rampant killing of other people (for whatever reason), then you are not pro-life. Moreover, you might question your Christianity, since no one can answer, “Who would Jesus bomb?” The Christian Just War theory was born out of the Crusades, when the Pope rallied Christians to go killing for Christ upon request by the Emperor. That’s been propagated throughout the centuries as a means by which to keep a large number of people ready and willing to kill and die for a ‘Christian’ cause, when killing is not at all would Jesus would do. In fact, when hanging on the cross, Jesus said, “Forgive them, Father for they know not what they do,” and didn’t ask Jehovah to kill them as revenge or to protect Him from them.
  
  Try again, Max. Your points are pointless.
  
  Report this comment
BigBadBob2490
Posted on October 31, 2012 at 11:40am
Obama Nation = Abomination. BHO has already displayed 22 of the 40 “attributes” of an antichrist. Just needs a second term to complete his Faustian demonic bargain. THAT’s what this election is really all about. Selah.

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by faith
Posted on October 31, 2012 at 10:58am
THE FIVE NON-NEGOTIABLES
These five issues are called non-negotiable because they concern actions that are always morally wrong and must never be promoted by the law.
1. Abortion
The Church teaches that, regarding a law permitting abortions, it is “never licit to obey it, or to take part in a propaganda campaign in favor of such a law, or to vote for it” . Abortion is the intentional and direct killing of an innocent human being, and therefore it is a form of homicide.
The child is always an innocent party, and no law may permit the taking of his life. Even when a child is conceived through rape or incest, the fault is not the child’s, who should not suffer death for others’ sins.
2. Euthanasia
Often disguised by the name “mercy killing,” euthanasia also is a form of homicide. No one has a right to take his own life (suicide), and no one has the right to take the life of any innocent person.
In euthanasia, the ill or elderly are killed out of a misplaced sense of compassion, but true compassion cannot include doing something intrinsically evil to another person.
3. Fetal Stem Cell Research
Human embryos are human beings. “Respect for the dignity of the human being excludes all experimental manipulation or exploitation of the human embryo”.

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- by faith
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 11:04am
  Recent scientific advances show that any medical cure that might arise from experimentation on fetal stem cells can be developed by using adult stem cells instead. Adult stem cells can be obtained without doing harm to the adults from whom they come. Thus there no longer is a medical argument in favor of using fetal stem cells.
  4. Human Cloning
  “Attempts . . . for obtaining a human being without any connection with sexuality through ‘twin fission,’ cloning, or parthenogenesis are to be considered contrary to the moral law, since they are in opposition to the dignity both of human procreation and of the conjugal union” .
  Human cloning also ends up being a form of homicide because the “rejected” or “unsuccessful” clones are destroyed, yet each clone is a human being.
  5. Homosexual “Marriage”
  True marriage is the union of one man and one woman. Legal recognition of any other form of “marriage” undermines true marriage, and legal recognition of homosexual unions actually does homosexual persons a disfavor by encouraging them to persist in what is an objectively immoral arrangement.
  
  Report this comment
- CoGod
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 11:21am
  The issues are murder (abortion), murder (morning after pill not contraceptives), family (against same sex marriage), free speech (by Christians in public and pastor over the pulpit), the culture (if a man doesn’t work, neither should he eat, and a man that does not take care of his family is worst than and infidel), the open border (being used by terrorists and the ease of transporting a nuclear device once Iran has one), the protection of Israel (the land the Lord gave to Abraham and his decedents through Isaac – not Ishmael), protecting our country (national defense), Judea-Christian law(not shariah), free choice in schools, following our constitution (patterned after the principles in the Word of God, the bible not the Qur’an) and getting the liar and chief out of the white house or is it black house?
  
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- justangry
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 11:40am
  Yes, R&R 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrY5-nxPHeA&feature=fvwp&NR=1
  
  We need to make the White House WHITE again, right CoGOD?
  
  /sarcasm
  
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- Konservative PUNK
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 11:56am
  I agree on all points except for #2.
  People DO have the right to take their own lives, but those who assist them are accomplices to murder. Life is a ‘right’ and therefore can be denied by the possessor if he/she truly has the liberty of free-will. All are not bound by the laws of morality. Such laws are to be observed by choice, not by force. Violating the rights of others is NOT acceptable. Violating one’s own right to life is one’s own personal choice to make.
  
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- by faith
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 12:13pm
  suicide is telling God, “I am in control of my own life and I know better”
  
  Of course allowing for the person being in their right mind.
  I think God would take the fact that someone is mentally incapable of making rational decisions into the equation.
  
  But we do agree on the larger point of #2. Euthanasia is murder
  
  Report this comment
- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 12:14pm
  Saying someone does not have the right to end their own life indicates that you do not believe in the principle of self-ownership, which indicates you believe people are someone else’s property. That’s scary.
  
  I disagree with the statement that people who help others end their lives are accomplices to murder. You can’t charge someone with murdering themselves, and thus no murder takes place. But, if a person of sound mind, under conditions of painful terminal illness wants to use doctors and medicine to check out in as pain-free a manner as possible, who are any of us to tell them they can’t? A person in stage 4 pancreatic or bone cancer is in more pain every minute than you can fathom. There is no cure, and making them hang on in agony to serve your religious views is unbelievably selfish and immoral. You insinuate that you have the right, through government, to prevent someone from ending their own pain, when there is no demonstrable reason to believe it will end on it’s own without their death. You insinuate that you have more claim over their life than they do.
  
  Tell me, have you ever had a terminally ill relative who spent their last months, days or weeks in total misery only to die at the end, completely wasted away without even their dignity intact? I have. It was monstrous. It was unbelievably painful for my uncle (he literally begged for death for WEEKS), and for all of us to have to observe and endure.
  
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- by faith
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 12:34pm
  I buried my father-in-law last week after 10 years of slow death from cancer.
  
  and yes people are someone else’s property, we are the “property” of God
  
  I don’t care if the government can’t charge a person with murder, God who sees all and knows all will be the judge.
  
  Choose your words carefully, you will have to answer for them some day
  
  I have not claim over anyones life. I am only pointing out God’s truth
  You do not have to listen to me, but you have been warned
  
  Report this comment
- justangry
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 1:43pm
  If you believe your god owns me, I’d really like some proof he exists. If you want to infuse your faith into our government, I’d like to know how that’s different than Sharia.
  
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- Konservative PUNK
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 2:24pm
  unJUST-ANGRY,
  We are not infusing God, nor forcing you to submit to Him. We believe in your right to deny His existence. We support your right to live a life of sin as you please. What we do not support is when you deny others the right to do the same. We wish to deny you the right to murder innocent human life. We deny you the right to force us to take part in your sin. We reserve the right to worship our God any place, any time. We also reserve the right for others to CHOOSE to do the same.
  
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- by faith
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 2:30pm
  Part 1 http://www.catholic.com/radio/shows/proofs-for-gods-existence-part-i-6821
  Part 2 http://www.catholic.com/radio/shows/proofs-for-gods-existence-part-ii-6822
  
  Although I have a feeling God could tap you on the shoulder and you still would deny Him
  
  Every government ever has been infused with their faith.
  America was formed by a Judeo/Christian ethic, Muslim countries are infused with Sharia, Communist are atheist…
  
  Report this comment
- Max jones
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 8:03pm
  JUSTANGRY….Isn’t it cool that you get fewer and fewer responses..I think so.
  
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- Max jones
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 8:55pm
  Can an statement of truth be called racist? I give you a Statement of fact. Composed by one of the left’s icons, Charles Darwin….and this is obviously a true factual statement. An observation by an educated God fearing man.
  Since the dawn of history the blackman has owned the continent of Africa – rich beyond the dream of poet’s fancy, crunching acres of diamonds beneath his bare black feet and yet he never picked one up from the dust until a white man showed to him its glittering light.
  His land swarmed with powerful and docile animals, yet he never dreamed a harness, cart, or sled. A hunter by necessity, he never made an axe, spear, or arrowhead worth preserving beyond the moment of its use. He lived as an ox, content to graze for an hour. In a land of stone and timber he never sawed a foot of lumber, carved a block, or built a house save of broken sticks and mud.
  With league on league of ocean strand and miles of inland seas, for four thousand years he watched their surface ripple under the wind, heard the thunder of the surf on his beach, the howl of the storm over his head, gazed on the dim blue horizon calling him to worlds that lie beyond, and yet he never dreamed a sail.” — Charles Darwin
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on November 2, 2012 at 11:38am
  @ByFaith
  
  “I buried my father-in-law last week after 10 years of slow death from cancer.” I am truly very sorry for you and your family’s loss. Cancer is such a terrible animal. My sincerest condolences to you and yours.
  
  “…and yes people are someone else’s property, we are the “property” of God.” This is an assertion on your part, and your willingness to make it shows your desire to make me subservient… massah…
  
  “I don’t care if the government can’t charge a person with murder, God who sees all and knows all will be the judge.” And so why do you go about passing His judgments for him? Isn’t it a lil arrogant to assume that you know a God’s mind?
  
  “Choose your words carefully, you will have to answer for them some day.” I take responsibility for everything I do and say. I always have. God doesn’t scare me. And if you love a God you have to fear, then you might consider some counseling. That’s a tendency of masochism.
  
  “I have not claim over anyones life. I am only pointing out God’s truth
  You do not have to listen to me, but you have been warned.”
  But you claim you do, and you vote for people who claim to believe the same thing about God’s ownership of us, never pondering how they really mean STATE ownership of us. The rise of the evangelical right in politics is about extending control over others through government. You’re control freak statists who wish to use force to control others, whether you’ll admit it or not.
  
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- by faith
  Posted on November 5, 2012 at 9:15am
  ChrisDiamond
  Thank you for your condolences.
  I have no desire to make you or anyone else subservient.
  God gave you free will, I would never assume to take that away from you. I am not passing judgment. All I have done is post God’s words as I understand them. You are free to follow them or not.
  Fear of God is akin to the fear a child has of disappointing or angering a parent. Does it make a child masochistic if he/she wants to please their parent?
  Please show me where I claim rights over anyone’s life. You can try to twist my words any way you like, however, I do not answer to your standards. We all will one day answer to God for the choices we have made. You are free to choose sin and I am free to point out sin.
  My telling you not to kill people is what you consider “control freak statists”?
  
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JimL
Posted on October 31, 2012 at 10:33am
Progressives attack social issues at the root- Life.

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- justangry
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 10:52am
  Progressives want the federal government to intervene in matters not specifically authorized by the Constitution.
  
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- Konservative PUNK
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 11:01am
  Not only are they “not specifically authorized by the Constitution”, but many of them are specifically PROHIBITED by the Constitution.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 11:13am
  Oh come on guys… That Constitution thing is SO outdated. Like the founders could have pondered our desire to kill our unborn children, or deal with the threat of radical Islam… or the desperate need of others to feed at the trough of our capitalistic largesse…
  
  /Sarcasm
  
  The truth does need to be told though… The Constitution has been powerless to prevent our politicians from doing whatever they want after they create emergencies and stand ready to provide the cure. Lysander Spooner observed, “Whether the Constitution be one thing or another, this much is true: it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or it has been powerless to prevent it.”
  
  We’ve read that, “If all men were angels we would need no government.” I contend that the oposite is true: it is precisely because all men are not angels that we should NOT have a government; a small, centralized entity with a monopoly on the initiation of force… people in positions where their support for oppression and theft and murder can be purchased by entities rich enough to do so (Big Ag, Big Pharma, the Military Industrial Complex etc). The government is a magnet for eogtistical, lying, thieving people ho desire to exercise power and control over others because, from their positions of ‘power’ they can commit these crimes LEGALLY, and with full impunity.
  
  Government is the most valuable tool of tyrants and thieves. End the State.
  
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TheGrtDcptn
Posted on October 31, 2012 at 9:53am
A MUST watch…

http://vimeo.com/52009124

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Panhead49
Posted on October 31, 2012 at 9:53am
Both candidates are pro-gay marriage, with one of them using executive power to order county clerks to issue marriage licensees to gay couples.—- That would be Romney in 2003.
Both candidates are pro-choice with a long history of supporting abortion.
There is no clear choice for any “Values voter” this election

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- Max jones
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 8:11pm
  PANHEAD….yes there is …..jobs!
  
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Konservative PUNK
Posted on October 31, 2012 at 9:36am
Overturning Roe v. Wade will NOT stop abortion, but will return this power to the states to decide for themselves. It is about states’ rights to decide. The federal government has NO business deciding these issues for Americans. As a ProLife advocate, I would like to see every state outlaw this barbaric practice, as I believe it is indeed murder. Overturning Roe v. Wade does NOT accomplish this.

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- ModerationIsBest
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 9:48am
  In 2010, 46% of Republicans in Mississippi wanted to put laws back on the books banning interracial marriage.
  
  Is that also a “State’s Right?”
  
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- justangry
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 9:52am
  No, but it is the biggest hurdle in getting what you want, no?
  
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- Konservative PUNK
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 9:55am
  Not sure if your statement is correct. It sounds suspect to me, but even if it were true, it is hardly the same thing as killing over 50 million unborn innocent people. Leftists love to change the subject when confronted with an argument they cannot win.
  
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- Konservative PUNK
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 10:04am
  I do support the right of citizens of ANY state to pass ANY law that does not violate the rights of others as clearly outlined in the Declaration of Independence. In this case, outlawing interracial marriage violates rights of individuals. Abortion violates the most sacred right of all as outlined in our Declaration of Independence, the right to LIFE. It is one of the very few rights that the federal governemnt IS charged with protecting, yet has abdicated it’s responsibility to do so.
  
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- Konservative PUNK
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 10:18am
  The Federally protected right to an abortion is based on LIES.
  What does Jane Roe of Roe v. Wade say about the case?
  
  http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/10/jane-roe-of-roe-v-wade-airs-anti-obama-ad-in-florida-video/
  
  She lied in court. She regrets murdering her own child, and paving the road for the mass slaughter of over 50 million innocent Americans since Roe v. Wade.
  
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- Max jones
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 9:02pm
  JUST Angry did you report my post comparing paulbots to NBP and the Taliban….what a wuss.
  
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- justangry
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 10:07pm
  I don’t care if downys spread their idiocy on GB’s site. Don’t flatter yourself.
  
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- resme
  Posted on November 1, 2012 at 2:35am
  Just, Do you feel the love coming from this “christian” :)?
  
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- justangry
  Posted on November 1, 2012 at 10:04am
  LOL, Resme. Yeah he’s a real peach. What I find telling is there aren’t many “Christians” chastising him for his backwards interpretation. He’s argued on this thread it’s OK to murder for his morals… and crickets. Wow!
  
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- resme
  Posted on November 1, 2012 at 10:59am
  @just, Best argument for these people is God is a non interventionist. Christianity isn’t force, It’s peace.
  
  Who decides the morality? God or a “Imperfect” human being? No different from Islam Fundamentalist in KSA ( Who use the Quran to justify cutting someone’s head off ). Morality is formed from empathy, Each person is different and unique. A person chooses to be moral, Geeze.
  
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Konservative PUNK
Posted on October 31, 2012 at 9:32am
Christians believe that every individual should have the opportunity to hear the gospel and decide for themselves whether to believe it or not. We know that our God does not force anyone to believe or put their faith in Him.
Christians oppose abortion, NOT because we wish to force our beliefs on others, but because we believe that the unborn are people who also deserve a ‘CHOICE’.
I challenge all ‘pro-choicers’ to do an image search of ‘Aborted Fetuses’ and tell me why you support the mass slaughter of these innocent people.

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Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on October 31, 2012 at 9:23am
I have checked out the site of Patheos and will no longer deal with it; sorry Blaze but on this one I have to say a zero is scored.

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acovenantinblood
Posted on October 31, 2012 at 9:18am
I was unaware that it was the federal governments job to legislate morality. Whether it’s the morality of socialism or the morality of “Biblical values” I never thought it was the federal governments job in America. All I can see is a failed American church desperately trying to “vote” God in where they should be changing the culture. Good luck with that. I think they call that idolatry.

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- justangry
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 9:30am
  It is to progressives.
  
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- TAC616
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 9:31am
  Oh they are gonna love you in here, man.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 12:18pm
  Excellent Point, Covenant…
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 4:59pm
  So what are you saying, there should be no laws against murder?
  
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- Max jones
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 7:09pm
  I call you on that one covenant……Federal law prohibits murder… but why? Could it be because it is ‘immoral’? In fact all the laws we have that keep us civilized are ‘moral’ prohibitions. Derived from Judaic traditions. Some have been dumbed down over the years but the flavor, though diluted, comes from the book of Genesis.
  
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- TheCalmOne
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 7:37pm
  The US legal system is derived from English Common Law which is ultimately derived from ancient Roman law. Nothing to do with the Bible, which, by the way, derives its laws from the earlier Hammurabi’s Code.
  
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- Max jones
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 8:16pm
  Roman Law? don’t think so. But I’ll get back to you.
  
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- Max jones
  Posted on October 31, 2012 at 8:31pm
  CALZONE….What I could find. you are off a few degrees…..must be the ‘liberal’ education you got. The code of hammaerabi fits the babylonian blueprint and extends to 18th century IRAQ. went no further, and in a perverse form was adopted by Muhammed. The civil law content is still used to some extent in the arab world. I stand with what I said earlier.
  
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- Platonician
  Posted on November 1, 2012 at 5:55pm
  @TheCalmOne
  
  Nice try lil gay boy. Check the classic “The Common Law” by Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. and you will discover… that the English Common Law is based on Christianity principles.
  
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- justangry
  Posted on November 1, 2012 at 8:34pm
  Wendel Holmes was an EVIL man that screwed this country up as much as any one man could. Who cares what he thinks?
  
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