Developing: Pakistani Plane Escorted by UK Fighter Jets — 2 Men Arrested
Doc Thompson’s 24-hour radio marathon, ‘#24forok,’ continues until 9 am ET — Listen Live!
Does the Bible Predict that Iran Will Become a ‘Christian Country’? Muslim-Turned-Evangelical Issues Eyebrow-Raising Proclamation
Dr. Hormoz Shariat, an evangelical and the founder of Iran Alive Ministries, issued an intriguing proclamation in a recent telecast conversation with Family Research Council President Tony Perkins. During the event, called ”The Cry of the Martyrs: The Threat to Religious Liberty Around the World,” Shariat said that he is convinced, despite widespread crackdowns on non-Muslims that the Islamic Republic of Iran is poised to become a Christian nation.
“Iran will be a Christian country, and that’s not up to me. It’s Jeremiah 49:38 [that] promises that. We are moving in that direction fast,” he proclaimed during an FRC event on Wednesday. ”There is a spiritual vacuum in Iran and people are hungry spiritually. That’s when we share the Gospel, share the Word of God through television people sit there for hours, take notes.”
Screenshot from Iran Alive Ministries web site
The verse Shariat references reads (NIV), “‘I will set my throne in Elam and destroy her king and officials,’ declares the Lord.” Since Elam was an ancient civilization existing where Iran currently resides, the evangelical leader believes that prophesy will play itself out and that God will very literally place his “throne” in this region.
While some may dismiss Shariat and his claims, as The Christian Post notes, he is dubbed “The Billy Graham of Iran.” His television broadcast airs throughout the Muslim nation and he has experience measuring and understanding how faith is being interpreted and handled within the nation’s borders.
“Iran is so open to the Gospel. So many people are come to Christ through our ministry in the US and in Europe, but especially in Iran,” the faith leader continued, according to the Post. “As we share the Gospel through television, people come to Christ. And not just ‘easy’ believers, they have become dedicated followers of Jesus Christ.”
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad gestures after a press conference on the sidelines of the Bali Democracy Forum (AP Photo/Dita Alangkara)
While his prediction is certainly bold, Shariat’s claims follow a March 2012 report from Open Doors USA, an organization that serves persecuted Christians across the globe. In it, the group reported that the growth of conversions from Islam to Christianity in the Islamic Republic is “explosive.”
“Forty years ago an estimated 200 Muslim Background Believers were living in Iran. Today the estimation is 370,000…,” the report reads. “According to Open Doors, the house church movement has triggered many secret meetings. The growth is happening in all regions, but mostly in the larger cities.”
Whether Iran will, indeed, become a Christian nation is yet to be seen. But if current regulations and crackdowns continue on Muslims and non-Muslims, alike, such a prospect seems difficult to imagine. Then again, difficult is rarely synonymous with impossibility.
(H/T: Christian Post)
Benghazi, IRS, AP...What's next? Only TheBlaze TV offers the truth from Glenn Beck, Andrew Wilkow, and Real News from TheBlaze. Get instant access and a free trial here.
Popular Stories
John McCain Lectures Tea Party Senator on How ‘Business’ Gets Done in Congress: ‘That’s What We’ve Been Doing for a Couple Hundred Years’ 593 Comments
Boy Scouts of America Vote to Allow Gay Members 521 Comments
Pope Francis’ Sermon Sparks Debate: ‘Even the Atheists’ Have Been Redeemed ‘With the Blood of Christ’ 498 Comments
Obama Doesn’t Return Marine’s Salute, Shakes Hand Instead — Is This a Protocol Misstep? 397 Comments
Piers Morgan Bans Dana Loesch From His Show Following Twitter Spat: ‘Show Some Bloody Respect’ 338 Comments
Faith
-
Game-Changing Bombshell? There’s a Major Twist in the Story About a High School Student’s Lesbian Relationship With a Minor
332 Comments
- Is the Boy Scouts’ Gay Amendment the ‘Beginning of the End’ for the Group? (Plus: Tell Us Where You Stand) 290 Comments
-
MSNBC Hosts Martin Bashir and Chris Hayes Claim London Machete Killers Aren’t Terrorists: ‘These Are Just Murderers’
152 Comments
-
Did You Catch the Possibly Policy-Changing Ft. Hood Reference in Obama’s Terror Speech?
Read More
-
Dem. Rep. Apologizes for Attending ‘Racist, Anti-Semitic and Homophobic’ Speech
Read More
Business
-
Have You Had Scotch at a NJ TGI Friday’s Lately? You Might Have Been Drinking Rubbing Alcohol
Read More
-
Venezuelan President Blames Toilet Paper Shortage on the Rich
Read More
-
This Terrible Chart Shows the Change in Food Stamp Participation Over the Last 10 Years
Read More
- Disney Makes Absolutely Mortifying Photoshop Mistake Read More
-
Trey Gowdy at It Again — This Time with a Jack Bauer Reference!
117 Comments
Technology
-
LOOK: Woman Claims to Have Photographed UFO in California
Read More
-
Lion Named ‘Bonedigger’ and Small Dog Make Most Unlikely Companions
Read More
-
Rocket Bike Sets Land Speed Record — and Uses a Fuel You Wouldn’t Expect
Read More
-
How 3D Printing Technology Created a Special Part for Baby’s Windpipe and Saved His Life
Read More
-
6 Fascinating Spy Gadgets You’ll Probably Want (and Can Have) After Seeing
Read More
Submitting your tip... please wait!
Comments (179)
jdog777
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 12:52pmEvery Head shall bow…. not by force, but by choice. Jesus Lives and He is the Christ.
Report this comment
Jim S
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 1:34pmI am not sure of this suggestion,but I didn’t buy Jesus and Satan being brothers so what do I know…
Report this comment
beckistheking
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 1:49pmUtter nonsense. Words of long dead men with bad dental hygiene. Ridiculous to treat them as factual.
Report this comment
Favored93
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 1:52pmALL nations will one day be Christian … Yes EVEN Iran!
Jesus and Satan are not now nor were EVER brothers…. just an fyi to an earlier post.
Report this comment
Merrymix
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 1:54pmIn 1917, Our Lady appeared in FATIMA, Portugal (coincidence?? — name of Mohammad’s revered daughter) to ask that the Holy Father and all the world’s bishops together consecrate RUSSIA by name to her Immaculate Heart. She said that when that was done, RUSSIA would be converted and there would be worldwide peace. Remember that this was just BEFORE the Bolshevik Revolution and she predicted that Russia would “spread her errors” throughout the world causing wars and the persecution of the Church. She said the Holy Father would have much to suffer. Nearly 100 years have passed and this has not been done. There have been millions and millions of people killed because of the wars in communist countries. She said “various nations would be annihilated”. The whole world should be crying out to the Holy Father NOW to get this consecration done. He is under intense pressure from sources within the Church not to do it. When it is done, Muslims will rapidly convert as they also revere the Mother of Jesus in her title “Our Lady of Fatima.” In Genesis, she was given the final power over evil when God told Lucifer: “She shall CRUSH your head (by bringing forth her son, Jesus) and you shall lie in wait for her HEEL.” (The Triumph of the Blessed Virgin Mary at the end of our period of time).
Report this comment
LetUsReason
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 2:31pm@ FAVORED
Jesus Christ is the Son of God. God is the Father, and ALL beings are His Creation. Lucifer, once a being of light (indeed “Lucifer” means “bearer of light”), but now a fallen angel, is also the offspring of God. If Jesus and Lucifer were both created by the Father (Jesus also being the only Begotten in the flesh), then logic follows that Lucifer is the brother of Christ. You and I are the brothers/sisters of Jesus Christ, and you and I are the brothers/sisters of Lucifer. This may not seem particularly pleasant, knowing who Lucifer is and represents, but it is 100% truth. Please point to the part of my logic that is flawed.
Report this comment
Favored93
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 2:37pm@Merrymix
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 1:54pm
….In Genesis, she was given the final power over evil when God told Lucifer: “She shall CRUSH your head (by bringing forth her son, Jesus) and you shall lie in wait for her HEEL.” (The Triumph of the Blessed Virgin Mary at the end of our period of time).
————————-
WOW ARE YOU IN ERROR!
Genesis 3:15 is the verse you are referring to here … I have copied and pasted it here (KJV) I have put all caps in but it is a direct quote please look it up yourself.
” And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between THY SEED and HER SEED; IT (Jesus) shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise HIS heel.”
Genesis says here that it is HIS heel Satan will bruise and HIS foot that will crush the head of our enemy NOT the heel of the woman!!!
Jesus himself said that Marry His mother was not to be worshiped! Jesus also told us not to call any man HOLY because NONE ARE!!!! EVEN YOUR POPE IS A SINNER AND NEEDS A SAVIOR! Nor are we to call any man father because none are holy and we have ONLY one Father and He is NO MAN!!!!
Just so you know Marry is NOT a virgin … JESUS HAD BROTHERS AND SISTERS!!! She was a virgin when she conceived our Lord through the Holy Spirit but did not stay that way after Jesus was born! She had the glorious honor of raising our Lord but she needed a savior just as we do. She was a sinner just as we are and is NOT to be worshiped or to be called holy because she was NOT holy
Report this comment
LetUsReason
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 2:38pmFavored,
Is it possible for Lucifer (Satan) to exist without being created? Can you explain his existence with the absence of a Creator? Can you? If God is the Father, and all His creations are His children, then please explain to me how two of His creations (sons) should not be considered siblings? It doesn’t make sense. I realize that this idea is not popular in mainstream Christianity. It’s something we don’t like to consider. We balk at it. We say, “Surely this isn’t so. There must be an explanation.” I am asking for it. Give me the explanation based off the Biblical idea of Creationism.
Report this comment
bbyrdhouse
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 2:42pm@MERRYMIX
The Scripture you are referring to is Genesis 3:15
“And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.”
This DOES NOT say that “Mary” will crush Satan, but rather her seed. Hence, “…and thou shalt bruise his heel.”
This is of course referencing Jesus Christ. …
Report this comment
BenInNY
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 2:44pm@beckistheking I’m agnostic and you’re even making ME cringe. Obviously you see this as your own personal fight to harass every Christian with the courage to mention God, but why? You can’t possibly think you’ll change even one mind toward your manner of thinking with this tactic, can you? The opposite is much more likely. Yeah, I don’t really understand the full faith on display here, but more senseless to me is the lack of understanding on your part that the nihilism you advocate is at least as much a religion. It seems that belief in nothing beyond our senses requires stronger faith.
After all, it may be that humans lack a sense much in the way animals who’ve lived too long in caves lose their eyesight. Their eyes still exist, but perform no function. Maybe another cave is more relevant: Plato’s Cave Analogy.
Report this comment
Favored93
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 2:46pm@LetUsReason
Show me bible to support that position. God crated the dogs but they are NOT my brothers and sisters. Just as when I have a steak I am not eating my siblings.
You are in error.
Jesus and Lucifer/Satan/The Devil are NOT brothers. Jesus is the ONLY begotten (born to as you were born into your family) Son of the Living God. God created Lucifer He did NOT “beget” him!
Calling Lucifer the brother of Jesus puts him on the same level of Jesus. You are factually wrong according to the Bible. Study a bit more before you follow doctrines of men to places you don’t want to go.
Report this comment
bbyrdhouse
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 2:52pm@LETUSREASON
You are wrong, my friend and someone has told you an outright lie.
Lucifer, was a created being … a fallen angel.
Jesus Christ, was God, manifested in the flesh. He was not created by God … He WAS/IS God.
Jesus, was not only present at creation, the Scriptures tell us that He was the architect of creation.
Colossians chapter 1 clears that up for us … particularly verses 16 & 17.
A careful reading of John 1:1-14 also tell enforces this truth.
It is dangerous territory to think Jesus as being merely a created being.
Report this comment
Favored93
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 2:52pm@LetUsReason
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 2:38pm
Favored,
Is it possible for Lucifer (Satan) to exist without being created? Can you explain his existence with the absence of a Creator? Can you? If God is the Father, and all His creations are His children, then please explain to me how two of His creations (sons) should not be considered siblings? It doesn’t make sense. I realize that this idea is not popular in mainstream Christianity. It’s something we don’t like to consider. We balk at it. We say, “Surely this isn’t so. There must be an explanation.” I am asking for it. Give me the explanation based off the Biblical idea of Creationism.
——————
The act of creation does not give familial status. God created the animals the same way He created the angles. God BEGET Jesus He did NOT create Him. There is your answer.
Report this comment
mcsledge
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 3:00pmJim S – Do you buy that Christ is your eldest spiritual brother? If not, put the Bible away. It will no longer help your cause.
Report this comment
gac1218
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 3:02pmReason-
Your reasoning is greatly illogical. Satan is a fallen angel- created, man- created, animals-created, plants-created, water, earth, light, and all other matter- created.
The bible clearly states that God and Christ, “Let US create man in OUR image” Genesis, have always been here. To say because God created it all it makes all brothers is stupidity or maybe just the brainwashing of the Morman church.
So here’s the list of my brothers according to your reasoning.
Brother Satan
Brother largemouth bass
Brother rock
Brother grass
Brother water
Brother Sun
Brother mosquito
All created by God. Sounds like new age gobbledeguck or something out of stars wars and the force. Trying to justify your Mormon doctrine in disguise just doesn’t cut the mustard. Get out of your cult and turn to the truth of God’s word not tainted by mormonism and the false teachings of Joseph Smith.
Report this comment
mcsledge
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 3:03pmFavored93 – I guess truth is but a buffet in your life. You plan to only pick and choose those points that you most agree with. Too bad. Ignorance never has and never will save.
Report this comment
LetUsReason
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 3:09pm@ FAVORED
Instead of essentially stomping your feet and saying, “Not uh!!” I am asking you to teach me the doctrine to refute my claim, just as I am showing you the doctrines that prove it.
You say that Lucifer is no more a brother of Christ than a dog is a brother of Christ. My argument is not that all of God’s creations are equal. God created the Earth, too. Am I saying that I, therefore, am the Earth’s brother? Are you saying that dogs (and animals) are equal in creation to God’s children? Let’s stick to the argument.
You are right when you say, “Jesus is the ONLY begotten (born to as you were born into your family) Son of the Living God.” I had already stated this, and it doesn’t refute anything. We are all God’s spiritual creations. Just because Jesus was born of the Father in the flesh doesn’t mean that Lucifer is no longer his brother, does it? I wasn’t born of the Father in the flesh, either. Am I not still Christ’s brother?
Look, I’m not trying to smash up your belief system by bringing in unconsidered ideas. You’re obviously a good, God-fearing individual, and I respect that. You shouldn’t, however, think that just because the Bible doesn’t say something outright, that it isn’t the case. To use your logic, it doesn’t say that they AREN’T brothers, either. I’m simply using our Biblical knowledge of spiritual relationships to make a valid point. Can you use logic and the Bible to refute it?
Report this comment
Favored93
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 3:13pm@mcsledge
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 3:00pm
Jim S – Do you buy that Christ is your eldest spiritual brother? If not, put the Bible away. It will no longer help your cause.
———-
I know that you were not talking to me but I feel the need to answer this.
Yes Jesus is our older brother. God through the shed blood of Jesus His ONLY begotten Son adopted me into His family. You seem to be stretching sound logic and Biblical doctrine here to say that Jesus and Satan are likewise brothers. This is absolute FOLLY!!! Jesus is the creator not simply part of God’s creation! Read and then RE-READ your Bible because this is vitally important!!! Who is Jesus? Is he God? If not why not? If so how so? What then is my role in this story? You have to find these answers! They are knowable! I have given you some of the answers in this post and others on this page as have others people today. Go back and read your Bible.
Report this comment
mcsledge
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 3:13pmFavored93 – Jesus is the Only Begotten in the flesh. All men and women are spiritual sons and daughters of the Father. Even Christ testified to this point:
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
And yes, Lucifer and all of his angels are fallen spiritual sons and daughters of the Father:
Isaiah 14: 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
Yes, Lucifer is an unembodied man (spiritual son). If he is not the son of our Father, then are you suggesting their is another God (Father)?
Report this comment
Favored93
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 3:18pmmcsledge
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 3:03pm
Favored93 – I guess truth is but a buffet in your life. You plan to only pick and choose those points that you most agree with. Too bad. Ignorance never has and never will save.
—————
You are conveniently not giving me ANY Biblical examples of my error.
Go on please show me my error…..you can’t because what I have said is sound Biblical doctrine.
Next time you call a person ignorant you should at least give an example of were he/she is wrong.
Report this comment
LetUsReason
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 3:27pm@ GAC and others
I know the Bible, and I know that it says “Let us create…” Now you are getting us into the topic of the Trinity, which is well enough, since it is a false notion concocted hundreds of years after Christ by a false creed in Nicea. To understand the scriptures (and the factual relation of Jesus to Lucifer….which really isn’t a super important topic, anyway, eternally speaking), you have to understand that Christ is who He said He was, the Son of God. And God is indeed the Father. The 3 for 1 business is nonsense that’s perpetuated by corrupt teachers of Christianity.
The scriptures often say that the Father and Son are one, true. Christ is never speaking in a bodily sense, however. Go back and check. Read John 17:22, where Christ clarifies this principle to his disciples. John the Baptist also indicated this at Christ’s baptism. Does Jesus pray to himself? Does the Father say “this is my beloved Son” because they are in fact the same person? When Stephen saw Christ on the right hand of the Father in vision, did he see one person or two? Can you stand on the right hand of yourself?
As for Creation, Jesus Christ created the Earth under the direction of the Father. This is clear from Genesis, and that is why the “we” is used.
Back to our original question of Jesus and Lucifer, I am still waiting for the doctrine you have to explain my error. A simple, “You are wrong and were taught a lie from someone,” doesn’t cut it.
Report this comment
LetUsReason
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 3:41pm@ GAC
Am I trying to disguise something? Nice point. Very scholarly and constructive.
These points I am making are not “Joseph Smith doctrines”, they are Biblical doctrines. Have I quoted him once or referenced him at all? As far as your “Brother mosquito” immaturity, go read my posts again. It is clear you do not care about what’s true, only about trying to put people in their place. If I am wrong, then I will denounce my errors immediately. I am not. And no one in this thread is saying anything that’s meaningful to the original argument to help their claim.
Report this comment
Favored93
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 3:56pmGuys!!! Both of you here who are arguing that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers are in error and I will show you here.John 1:1-5 States that Jesus is God. Look it up.
Colossians 1:16 “For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him.”
If all things were created by Jesus and for Jesus that includes the Devil and he can not be the brother of Jesus if Jesus was his creator. Romans 8:14-15 says 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
What does adoption mean? It means that once I was NOT a son of God but through Jesus God has adopted me into His family. Therefore not ALL are sons of God Only Jesus His ONLY begotten and those whom He has adopted.
These are ONLY 3 passages of scripture there are MANY more. God has ONLY one Son the rest of us who are called sons of God are adopted.
Romans 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
8:38-39 is our hope. We are adopted and the Devil is not in the family of God period the
Report this comment
LetUsReason
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 3:58pmHow to prove that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers:
Me: Is God the Creator of heaven and Earth and all things?
You: Yes of course.
Me: Is there anything that you know of that you can say was definitely NOT created by God?
You: Certainly not.
Me: Is Lucifer a real being?
You: I believe so, yes.
Me: Is Jesus a real being?
You: Yes!
Me: Do you believe Jesus is the Son of God?
You: I do.
Me: Do you know of a father who is not the creator of his son?
You: No, that’s ridiculous.
Me: Could Lucifer be in existence if he wasn’t created?
You: No, I imagine that he could not.
Me: Is there anyone other than God who could have created Lucifer?
You: Umm…no, I don’t suppose so.
Me: Do you know of two males, who are created by the same being, who are not brothers?
You. No, the relationship of father and son implies that the first created the second.
Me: So…if God is the Creator of all our spirits, and if Jesus Christ and Lucifer were created (sons) of the Father, then are they anything other than brothers?
You: No, I suppose they are not.
These ideas are Biblical, they are logical, and they are true. They are not popular. They are not taught by so-called mainstream Christians, but truth was never a popularity contest.
Report this comment
Favored93
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 4:04pm@mcsledge
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 3:13pm
Favored93 – Jesus is the Only Begotten in the flesh. All men and women are spiritual sons and daughters of the Father. Even Christ testified to this point:
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
—————–
The scripture you gave here says NOTHING about your point. please try again. That was nonsensical.
I mean no disrespect here but what you have posted in no way refers to Jesus and Satan as brothers. It ONLY states that the disciples were. (By adoption fyi read Romans 8)
Report this comment
Favored93
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 4:18pm@LetUsReason
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 3:58pm
How to prove that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers:
Me: Is God the Creator of heaven and Earth and all things?
You: Yes of course……….
———————
Obviously there was more to your post but I can’t re-post yours and write mine I am just showing that I read it.
Look either you have not read my posts or you are intentionally ignoring biblical truth. Which is it?….
I have given you verbatim quotes from the bible that ABSOLUTELY refute this false doctrine that Jesus and the Devil are brothers and all you do is post a ridiculous you vs. me argument!
I am not coming from an angry or hateful standpoint. I do find Mormons to be kind and friendly and I love them but they are terribly wrong!
Is the LDS faith wrong on EVERYTHING? No. However you guys are wrong on the most fundamental of biblical truths. JESUS IS GOD! NOTHING LESS!
Now give me Bible to support your position or quit responding to my posts and stop posting your false teaching meant only to convince the weak in the faith that Jesus is less then He is.
Report this comment
LetUsReason
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 4:24pm@ FAVORED
Those are great verses, but this has already been addressed a couple posts previous to yours.
A couple points to help you understand where we’re coming from. We need to understand that Creation happens in two forms. All things are created spiritually before they are created temporally. God the Father created you, me, and his other children (including Christ) spiritually before we were given a physical creation (birth). A unique thing about Christ is that the Father created him in both forms! You and me were created physically by mortal parents, even though our original (spiritual) creation was by God.
Secondly, Christ (after the Father created all things spiritually) was responsible for the creation of the heavens, Earth, and all things….in their TEMPORAL form, under the direction of the Father. This is what Genesis alludes to. When Christ is referred to as our Father, this is in regards to those who are born again of Christ.
I hope this helps. Please consider the below scripture in Romans 8:17 (KJV) for further clarity on the subject:
“And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.”
Why would we be “heirs of God”, but only “joint-heirs with Christ”, except if God was our Father (and Creator) and Christ was our Older Brother who showed us the way to the Father and inherited all that the Father has?
Report this comment
Favored93
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 4:49pm@LetUsReason
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 4:24pm
@ FAVORED
A couple points to help you understand where we’re coming from. We need to understand that Creation happens in two forms. All things are created spiritually before they are created temporally. creation was by God….
Secondly, Christ (after the Father created all things spiritually) was responsible for the creation of the heavens, Earth, and all things….in their TEMPORAL form, under the direction of the Father. This is what Genesis alludes to. ….
“And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.”…..
Why would we be “heirs of God”, but only “joint-heirs with Christ”, except if God was our Father (and Creator) and Christ was our Older Brother who showed us the way to the Father and inherited all that the Father has?….
—-
I had to edit your post so I had room to respond.
First show me Bible that we were created spiritually before Physically. God sees the end from the beginning but that does NOT mean that we were created before we were born.
And to answer your last point. Yes we are brothers of Christ Jesus but that is through adoption NOT creation! HUGE DIFFERENCE. There are people on this planet alive and those who have lived before us that are NOT sons and daughters of God. Show me in the Bible were Jesus and the Devil are brothers and I will recant. I am more committed to the truth then
Report this comment
LetUsReason
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 4:50pm@ FAVORED
This is what I wrote: “Read John 17:22, where Christ clarifies this principle to his disciples.”
This is the scripture: “And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one”
This is the scripture you said I cited: “Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.” -John 20:17
I never cited that scripture, and you’re right, it doesn’t really fit into our discussion.
I understand that we all make mistakes. In this case, you happened to have corrected me on something that needed no correction. You said I cited the wrong scripture, while you yourself didn’t even cite what I had cited.
I am not trying to have this discussion deteriorate into trivialities like this. If you’re going to try to correct me, I would recommend double-checking what you read and what you paste. We need mature discussion here, not shallow “gotcha” points….that are faulty to begin with.
Report this comment
colt1860
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 4:58pmNo verse says Jesus was created by his Father before the beginning of the world.
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
“But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been of old, from everlasting.”
“The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty… Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.”
“[Jesus said,] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
“All men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.”
“I and my Father are one… If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?”
“The Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us.”
“God was manifest in the flesh.”
“God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.”
“For in [Christ Jesus] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead b
Report this comment
Favored93
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 5:03pmLetUsReason
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 4:50pm
@ FAVORED
…….I am not trying to have this discussion deteriorate into trivialities like this. If you’re going to try to correct me, I would recommend double-checking what you read and what you paste. We need mature discussion here, not shallow “gotcha” points….that are faulty to begin with.
————
Agreed… I am not shooting for gotcha answers or questions and I suspect neither are you. That is why I try to re-post what you say so that both of us know what I am speaking to. This forum can get confusing and if I have misrepresented what you are saying I am sorry that was and is not my intent.
I am however still having trouble seeing how you come to the conclusions you do given the scriptures you have so far … I know my Bible (though I will not pretend to know it all and am open to being proven wrong) and I just do not see how you can come to these conclusions from scripture. Now if this is a Joseph Smith doctrine that he has tried to tie to the bible you have not said here but that is my suspicion. I look forward to your reply.
Report this comment
beckistheking
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 5:05pmLetusreason does anything but reason. He/she is obviously brainwashed and unable to think clearly and independently. Obviously the result of being raised in a cult.
Report this comment
LetUsReason
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 5:10pm@ FAVORED
I want you to know that I appreciate your participation in this healthy debate. It’s important that we understand the doctrines, and I have a lot of respect for your devotion, even though we don’t see eye to eye in our understanding.
You are wanting me to now divert away from our original discussion into a discussion about our pre-mortal existence. My intent at the beginning was to show that indeed Jesus and Lucifer are brothers, and it can be shown using logic and the scriptures. I feel like I’ve done that. I’m now supposed to show that we lived with God as spirits before we were born into mortality. I’m not sure how I am expected to teach several Sunday School lessons on this thread, given our text restraints.
Everything I’ve talked about is Biblical. These are not new or made up doctrines. If you want to know more about this doctrine you’re asking about, I would suggest a few scriptures that show that this is indeed true. Jer. 1:5…Job 38:4-7….Eph: 1:3-4….Eccl. 12:7….I’ll stop there. It is lovely and inspiring stuff.
Report this comment
Favored93
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 5:13pm@beckistheking
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 5:05pm
Letusreason does anything but reason. He/she is obviously brainwashed and unable to think clearly and independently. Obviously the result of being raised in a cult.
—————-
Please don’t “help” me any more … I am not here to insult any one. The truth can stand up to scrutiny God’s word can stand alone we don’t need to call names here. He/she was answering me honestly and on this forum that is all we can expect.
Please don’t help me on future posts if this is what you are going to do. Thanks.
Report this comment
LetUsReason
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 5:26pm@ BECKISKING
You make such a pleasant addition to this thread. Thank you for your wisdom and maturity.
@ FAVORED
I do not take the error to be an error in your argument, just so you know. Many people like to try to prove people wrong by saying, “Look, you misspelled something. How can I trust anything else you say.” It was an honest oversight. My point in the scripture was that obviously Christ and his disciples are not the same person, physically. That’s ludicrous. And yet, Christ prays “that they may be one just as We are one”. He is explaining that the Oneness between Himself and the Father is deeper than a trivial oneness of physical personage. He is teaching them the nature of God and Himself.
On a side note, let me just add one more thing. You know that I am Mormon. Have I mentioned any other scriptures here other than what is in the Bible? No, and I do for the sake of our discussion. When you come into this by first putting up a wall and saying that I may be inserting some “Joseph Smith doctrine”, then you do yourself a disservice by not allowing yourself to be open to what I have to say. I’m not here to try to trick people into believing what I do. As Glenn always says, “Do your own homework.”
Report this comment
Favored93
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 5:33pm@LetUsReason
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 5:10pm
@ FAVORED
….You are wanting me to now divert away from our original discussion into a discussion about our pre-mortal existence. ….
————-
First … I have also enjoyed this debate though I fear it was unfruitful. :(
I have read your post and will look up those scriptures again however I know them and they do not speak to a pre-mortal existence nor do they speak of Jesus and Lucifer as being brothers in any way shape or form however I will revisit them after this post.
To answer what I have copied from your post…. these two subjects are separate but obviously connected because it was part of your logic that we were all created spiritually before physically and therefore God is the father of all and we are all related Jesus and the Devil included. (If that is a misrepresentation please clarify) So I was not trying to divert from our original topic.
My point is twofold. First Jesus is God and the creator (Col 1 and John 1 to site only a couple) and therefore created Lucifer and is NOT his brother. Second we are the brothers and sisters of Jesus through adoption (Rom 8:23 and 9:4 Gal 4:5 and Eph 1:5 to site a few) which means that not ALL are sons and so just being created by God does not make us brothers you have to be adopted to be in the family because you and I are not family until that happens.
I hope this post brings us closer to understanding each others positions. Looking forward to your reply.
Report this comment
Favored93
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 5:40pm@LetUsReason
I have to cook dinner for the family tonite the wife is visiting her dad so I get to take care of things this eve (yup it’s black chicken tonite kids hehehe). I will respond to your posts but it will take me a while because I have a lot to do before she comes home so my posts will not come as fast.
I will read what you say and respond so please check back on here later for my responses as I will do yours. :)
Thank you for this conversation I am enjoying it :)
Report this comment
Merrymix
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 5:51pmIn AD 382 Pope St. Damasus commissioned St. Jerome (Hieronymous), the leading biblical scholar of his day, to produce a translation of the Bible to replace the Old Latin Bible, which had become corrupted through copyists’ errors.
St. Jerome applying himself to the task by papal warrant had access to the best extant manuscripts — which were much closer to the original manuscripts in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic than anything still existing today. In many cases the New Testament scriptural texts were within a few generations of the original manuscripts penned by the Apostles.
The Latin Vulgate
Finally completing his work in AD 405, St. Jerome gave the Catholic Church the Latin Vulgate. The Vulgate was solemnly proclaimed the Church’s official Bible by the Council of Trent ; which also declared that St. Jerome’s Vulgate was the only authentic Latin text of the Scriptures.
Douay-Rheims — taken from the original Latin Vulgate Version of the Bible
“I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.” — Genesis 3:15
It must be noted that the Douay-Rheims is NOT a typical translation where the translator rearranges the words and meanings, but a “slavish”, i.e., an exact translation without liberties from the Latin into English. The reader thereby has an exact understanding of what the original Latin says, rather than interpretations
Report this comment
LetUsReason
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 6:13pm@ FAVORED
Sorry. I’m at work, and I’m trying to reply in timely manner, while still getting my work accomplished. :-)
You say, “First Jesus is God and the creator (Col 1 and John 1 to site only a couple) and therefore created Lucifer and is NOT his brother.” If I understand you, you are saying that Christ is Lucifer’s Father. I am not trying to put words in your mouth, but that is how I understand you. If Christ is Lucifer’s creator, then wouldn’t that mean He is his Father? I suppose we are left with only those two options, aren’t we? Can we agree that Lucifer had to have been created? If so, then there are only two options here. Either Christ and the Father are literally one person, and He created Lucifer along with all else; or, Christ and the Father are separate beings (‘though One in purpose), and Lucifer was created by the Father. That means either Lucifer and Christ have a relationship of Father-son or they have a relationship of Brother-brother.
Are we on the same page up to this point? For us to really come to a conclusion, we would have to agree that God and Jesus are One in purpose, but not One in personage. That might be a more relevant discussion in order to get to our original question.
Report this comment
LetUsReason
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 6:17pm@ FAVORED
Enjoy your dinner! :-) Glad to know we can disagree, but still be cordial and inquisitive. I have poor Internet connection at home and may not be able to check back until tomorrow. It would be much more efficient to just go grab wings and bounce ideas back and forth. I’m guessing you don’t live in Utah, though.
Report this comment
GuruMeditation
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 6:40pmA somewhat entertaining discussion, but I must admit Favored93 owned LetUsReason as well as the others that commented.
Report this comment
Favored93
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 6:41pmLetUsReason
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 6:13pm
@ FAVORED
…. If I understand you, you are saying that Christ is Lucifer’s Father….. For us to really come to a conclusion, we would have to agree that God and Jesus are One in purpose, but not One in personage….
—–
OK to address your first point. (Rest easy I do not feel like you are putting words in my mouth I understand the confusion here.)
You are equating creation with fatherhood. Those two things are not the same. Fatherhood brings with it a permanent unbreakable relationship while creation does not.
As far as I know the Bible does not give us an account of the creation of the angles. However it does say that they were created not born. They are NOT disembodied people as some want to claim (though I am not suggesting that is your claim). As I understand scripture the relationship between angles and God is one of master and servant NOT father and son. You see as I understand your position you think that because God/Jesus created the angles that makes them family. This is not the case at all! Yes God created Lucifer but He did NOT create Jesus. Jesus was and is God and He became a man born of a virgin but he has no beginning and no end were as Lucifer had a beginning! He was created … Jesus was not! Jesus says of himself that He is the alpha and omega He is not a created being He is the creator. The relationship between God and the angles is NOT familial. (Cont…)
Report this comment
LetUsReason
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 6:42pm@ FAVORED
Oops…one more comment while I still have a few minutes.
You said, “The act of creation does not give familial status.” This is true. I can create a dozen cupcakes, but it would be laughable if I tried to convince you that I was their father. But Genesis says that we were created in the image of God. We are not simply bugs or animals or cupcakes. That includes all of us. Also, in Acts 17:29, we learn, “Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.” Offspring of God? That sounds familial to me. Thoughts?
You then say, “God BEGET Jesus He did NOT create Him. There is your answer.” Help me understand here. So from what I gather, since Jesus is the ONLY Begotten of the Father, are you suggesting that he is the only child? That seems to fly in the face of the above scripture. We are not considered His children unless we are “begotten”? I’m not sure that’s correct. Don’t most Christians (Mormons and otherwise) say that we are all God’s children? What do you believe on that?
Report this comment
LetUsReason
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 7:00pm@ owl guy
I’m bummed that you think I “lost”. And to think that I held you in such high regard…
@ FAVORED
“You are equating creation with fatherhood. Those two things are not the same. Fatherhood brings with it a permanent unbreakable relationship while creation does not.”
Personally, I think you are splitting hairs here and arguing semantics. But I also think you’re incorrect. First of all, the Bible doesn’t seem to differentiate between creation and fatherhood, so why are you? Were days 1-5 days of “creation”, and the 6th became a day of “fatherhood”? Let me elaborate. Gen 5:2…”Male and female CREATED he them”. Gen 1:26….”And God said, Let us MAKE man in our image”. In other places, the Bible uses words like “children”, “offspring”, etc. The Bible clearly says that we were “created”. The Bible also says, as you state, that angels were “created”. Why are insisting that these mean different things? I fear that you are veering into ideas that are neither Biblical, nor sensical.
Report this comment
Favored93
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 7:06pm@LetUsReason
(….Cont)
I think I have properly stated my position on the relationship between God and His angles. The fact that God created them does not make them family but servants with the obvious ability to rebel but now all of heaven knows the consequences of that course.
Now if you want to have a discussion on the trinity I would be happy to. Yes I believe that the doctrine of the trinity is Biblical sound doctrine. There is to much evidence. Both Old and new testament references to the Holy Spirit and the fact that you can grieve Him tells me this is not a “force” but a person. Jesus Himself refereed to the Holy spirit as a person so He is God and His own person at the same time. Ephesians 4:30 and Isaiah 63:10 both speak about the Holy Spirit of God as a person able to be grieved. So God the Father God the Son and God the Holy spirit. sounds odd doesn’t it? Why? You are also a triune being. Did you know that? You were created in the image of your God. You are a spirit who lives in a body and has a soul. You are three distinct and separate parts of the same being! You are the very image of the trinity!!! :)
I believe that the truth can stand up to honest questions and have no issues talking about anything with anyone of any faith. I just ask that we both be more committed to the truth then our denominations. Now I would love to hear why you think my positions are wrong … or do you? ;)
Report this comment
Elena2010
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 7:14pm@Reason – You said”Jesus Christ is the Son of God. God is the Father, and ALL beings are His Creation. Lucifer, once a being of light (indeed “Lucifer” means “bearer of light”), but now a fallen angel, is also the offspring of God. If Jesus and Lucifer were both created by the Father (Jesus also being the only Begotten in the flesh), then logic follows that Lucifer is the brother of Christ. You and I are the brothers/sisters of Jesus Christ, and you and I are the brothers/sisters of Lucifer. This may not seem particularly pleasant, knowing who Lucifer is and represents, but it is 100% truth. Please point to the part of my logic that is flawed.”
Jesus is God Incarnate, and not made, but one essence w/the Father and the Holy Spirit. The Son is a co-eternal Being, made manifest in the person of Jesus of Nazareth, who was God and man fm His conception.
Lucifer was created as were all the angels. You and I are created as are all men and women. God the Son is eternal, not made, just as God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. One God yet three aspects that you and I can recognize, yet sooooo much more!
Report this comment
Elena2010
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 7:24pm@Mcs — you said: Yes, Lucifer is an unembodied man (spiritual son). If he is not the son of our Father, then are you suggesting their is another God (Father)?
Lucifer is an angelic being. Angels are of different “stuff” fm humankind.
Jesus is both God and man. He is of “God stuff” and of “man stuff.” He is man to take upon His flesh the price for our sins — all of our sins fm all time. He became sin who knew no sin. By His stripes we are healed. Only God-Man could do this for us.
Lucifer is an angel who cannot save for he is not God. He wants you to think he is God so you worship him instead of God. Lucifer despises humans, in large measure because God loves us so much and lavishes us w/His grace. Lucifer’s mission was to be the Adversary. He got really caught up in the role and became the eternal, no longer loyal, Adversary who is bent on destroying humanity in any and every way he can.
To equate Lucifer, humans, and Jesus is heresy and unbiblical.
Report this comment
colt1860
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 7:47pm@Elena2010 Exactly. The Word was not created, but has always been one in essence and nature with his Father; existing from everlasting in as one unique and divine unity with his Father, as God.
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.”
Jesus was not created, but “came out from the Father”. The Father is by nature eternal and has no beginning or end, but is the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last, as is the Son.
Christ Jesus, “Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men. And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.”
Report this comment
Favored93
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 7:47pm@LetUsReason
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 6:42pm
@ FAVORED
Oops…one more comment while I still have a few minutes…..
————
WOW!!! THAT WAS A GREAT REPLY!
There was so much there that I would not have been able to copy and paste and then reply myself.
OK … First I am not splitting hairs here. The Bible does make a distinction between creation and familial status. Romans 8 makes that distinction when Paul says that we were adopted into the family of God and earlier in chapter 5 he says this …Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
You see there was a time when we were NOT in the family of God but through the spirit of adoption were by we cry “Abba Father” Before this event we could not call Him our father.
Acts 17:29 is a scripture you used in your reply to say that we are His children… yes I agree but that is in light of what Jesus had accomplished at the cross and the empty grave.
I do not agree with Christian “tradition” in that all men are children of God. Clearly from scripture not all men are His children. (Cont…)
Report this comment
Favored93
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 7:55pm@LetUsReason
…(Cont)
I think I have stated my position from a biblical stand point on the issue of creation vs family.
I would LOVE to continue this deeper with you.
if you use Facebook look me up. I use my Lotro gaming name because there is family I do not want to talk to. I am “Davadam Lotro” on Facebook. in your request please let me know that we talked here so that I do not think you are a spammer. Same goes for anyone else who would like to talk further on these things :)
Report this comment
Favored93
Posted on November 16, 2012 at 12:26pm@LetUsReason
On the off chance you get on today and check for more from me on this… here is more bible about the supremacy of Jesus vs the angles. They are NOT related.
Hebrews 1:4
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he AT ANY TIME, THOU ART MY SON, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
And Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Colossians 2:18
Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
Report this comment
LetUsReason
Posted on November 16, 2012 at 12:35pm@ ELENA
I suppose now we are debating the Trinity. It seems that my understanding of this whole topic pivots on the fact that Jesus Christ, His Father (God), and the Holy Ghost operate as One force, but are NOT one physical personage. The Bible (KJV) refers to this as the Godhead. The word “trinity” never appears in the Bible and was a creation of an uninspired committee many years after the apostles had all been killed. As outlined above, there are multiple instances in the Bible that make the idea of a 3-in-1 Being look ludicrous. Stephen’s vision, Christ’s baptism, praying in the Garden and other places, the Mount of Transfiguration, and on and on. There are no scriptural passages to back up the false idea of a Trinity, only vague references to Christ saying they are “one”, which (as was a typical expression both then and now) is used to convey unity (again, see John 17:22). Remember when Christ was resurrected and He told Mary not to touch Him because He had not yet ascended to His Father?….”my God and your God” he says. Anyone who reads the Bible honestly and openly will see that there is no support of the false notion of a Trinity concept. It is fictitious Christian tradition.
As for creation….I wish I could have more text capacity. I would explain it all from the Bible. Suffice it to say, we do not believe in ex nihilo creation. Matter is organized by the power of God.
@ FAVORED
I don’t use Facebook, but I do appreciate the dialog on here.
Report this comment
LetUsReason
Posted on November 16, 2012 at 12:50pm@ FAVORED
On the off chance you get on today and check for more from me on this…
_________________
I am confused as to why you think I believe that Jesus is not “better than the angels”. I feel like there is a lot of scripture quoting going on, by there is no analysis or explanation to tie everything together. It also seems that we cannot stay on one topic and, using the scriptures, create a consensus.
Your quoting of all this is to try to prove that Jesus is not related to the angels. Verse 4 actually seems to make MY case. It says (1) They’re not equal, because (2) “by inheritance” God said, “THOU ART MY SON, this day have I begotten thee”, which (3) we know because He is the ONLY Begotten.
We seem to be stuck on this idea. Neither you, nor me, nor the angels are “begotten” sons and daughters of God. This makes Christ unique and “better than” us, as the scripture says. We both agree on this point, I think. Christ is Begotten of the Father, and we are not. It does not, however, mean that we (or the angels) are not the created offspring of God. Can you answer this to help me understand: If God is not the Creator of the angels who serve Him, then who is? We are the offspring of God because we were created in His image, as were the angels. Dogs, cows, and mosquitos are not created in the image of God; thus, they are His creation, but are not his children (or offspring).
Report this comment
LetUsReason
Posted on November 16, 2012 at 1:08pm@ FAVORED
“You were created in the image of your God. You are a spirit who lives in a body and has a soul. You are three distinct and separate parts of the same being! You are the very image of the trinity!!! :)”
________________________
Your first sentence is true. No disagreement there.
Your second sentence is mostly true, but I would add one caveat. The word “soul” is used to mean different things. Oftentimes, it equates to “spirit”, but it is also used to be the union of body and spirit (ie, a resurrected soul). Therefore, soul, depending on context, can either mean spirit or spirit and body joined as one unit. For the most part, I think I agree with what you are trying to say.
Your third sentence is intriguing. You say that I am also a 3-in-1 trinity, by which I think you mean that my “Father” aspect is God. My “Son” aspect is my body. And my “Holy Spirit” aspect is my spirit, or as you’ve termed, my soul. Are you suggesting, then, that I am God….and you are God? If your self-trinity comparison is true, then I am the same as God. Indeed, it means we are the very same being. There is no difference. Same person, same everything. Or….if that’s not the case, then we are in fact one in purpose and design, but we are not one individual. This I agree with, and this is exactly what I have been trying to argue using the Bible.
Report this comment
LetUsReason
Posted on November 16, 2012 at 1:55pm@ FAVORED
You see there was a time when we were NOT in the family of God but through the spirit of adoption were by we cry “Abba Father” Before this event we could not call Him our father.
_____________________
My long response on this didn’t get saved. I’ll try to repeat it. :-(
This idea of God at some point not being our Father is not a Biblical idea. It’s also not true. The reason there is the misunderstanding about this adoption idea is that you are working with the paradigm of the Trinity, and when you try to harmonize true principles with man-made doctrines, you naturally encounter some problems. (On a side note, why IS Jesus saying “Abba Father…”, or praying for the Father to forgive the Roman soldiers, if he’s just talking to Himself and not His Father? Again, the Trinity is man-made religion.)
Back to your quote. First, God is, has been, and always will be our Father. We become the children of Christ, however, by adoption, like you stated. That is what is meant by being “born again”. In that sense, Christ becomes both the Father and the Son, the latter by way of “inheritance” from the Father and the former by way of our adoption upon receiving Him as our Savior. In other words, just because we are ALL children of the Father doesn’t mean we will all be saved, right? It requires being born again. Born of whom? Born of Christ. We, through adoption, become His children, as well.
Report this comment
aiello78
Posted on November 21, 2012 at 5:04amLET US REASON:
Not everyone has God as their father. The Pharisees’ father was the devil. When we have the Spirit of Christ we are adopted sons of God (male and female), and are able to call Jesus Christ our brother; otherwise, we don’t qualify as sons of God and brothers of Jesus Christ. The only way to the Father is through Jesus Christ. Only if Lucifer has Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior can he be a brother of Jesus Christ. I don’t see this happening anytime soon because the status of son is available only to humans—not angels.
Report this comment
pap pap
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 12:47pmI certainly wish Shariat the best.
Report this comment
Delores at CH WV
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 12:40pmEverything is possible with God. The Last Days are near; it is very possible that the Lord is going to bring his people home in Iran. Very possible. I pray that the Lord will bring more of his people home before the massive destruction. Wow! I been so distracted by all the nuts from Iran and forgot the souls of those trapped citizens! This would be so great for the Lord to poor out his love to them and give them a new life with him.
Report this comment
Dave.the.Blaze
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 12:54pmSorry, but how can you say the end is near? People have predicting that for centuries, and the Bible clearly states that only God knows the answer to that question. Trust me, look back at history and there have been eras with much more war, death, disease, and poverty than ours. Still, we are here.
Report this comment
beckistheking
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 1:51pmIt’s not the end times. The closest we got was when humanity nearly went extince tens of thousands of years ago. It’s really so sad to see that modern people still cling to the ancient nonsense of long dead ignorant people.
Report this comment
Favored93
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 2:18pm@Dave.the.Blaze
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 12:54pm
Sorry, but how can you say the end is near? People have predicting that for centuries, and the Bible clearly states that only God knows the answer to that question. Trust me, look back at history and there have been eras with much more war, death, disease, and poverty than ours. Still, we are here.
——-
You obviously don’t know what you are talking about here. ( I mean no disrespect by that )
Look up Matthew 16:2-3 Jesus Himself said that we can know when the end times are near and if we DON’T it is akin to wickedness. Why were the books of Daniel and Revelation given to us? So that when we see the things in them begin to happen we can be ready and be more urgent in declaring the truth of the Good News that our Lord Jesus is on His way!
Go to biblegateway.com and look up the end times and while you are at it look up the passage were Jesus says that no man knows the DAY or the HOUR of Jesus return. That is the verse I think you are referring to. While we can’t know the time of his arrival we can and MUST be aware of the season of his return.
We are living in the most amazing and interesting time in all of human history! The advent of TV and the rebirth of Israel should speak for them selves. We can now see LIVE events that are happening on the other side of the planet! Now the book of Revelation is possible about a hundred years ago it was not. It is now possible for a single man to control the global econo
Report this comment
Susie
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 12:37pmThat’s odd because Bible prophecy says that (Russia) Gog, & Magog and (Persia) -Iran will be the first to join forces and attack Israel.
Report this comment
AbrahamsSheepdog
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 1:02pmTrue. Hum, our Father knows best and all in His hands. We are at the last tickes-o-the-clock for the good guys. That we notice it is so peaceful somehow. We get our King…they get ..well a prince. Dads coming home soooooon.
Report this comment
circleDwagons
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 2:01pmwho is Isreal? The Bible talks about 12 tribes, 10 tribes have disappeard in the “end times” there will be 12 tribes. We are not God, we do not know when Christ will return but return he will. Our freedom is in Christ.
Report this comment
Favored93
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 3:04pm“Israel” can and does refer to two different things in the Bible. First Genesis 32:28 referring to Jacob whom God changed His name to Israel. The twelve sons of Jacob (Israel) became the twelve tribes of Israel and through them the NATION of Israel came into being. The word “Jew” First referred to the people who belonged to the tribe of Judah and later became the common name of the religion centered on the worship of the One True God. Calling the Nation of Israel today “Israel” is NOT inaccurate because even if that entire nation was ONLY comprised of the descendants of one of the twelve tribes they are still the children of Israel.
I hope this helped clear up your questions.
Report this comment
rob_a
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 3:45pmDoes anyone know what prophetic illusions are? Language that is alluding to something bigger! If you take the language that is used in these verses and apply it to our understanding of good and evil and the battle we face each day, you will see they are not talking about a specific event in time but a continual fight between right and wrong, sanctity and sin, Life and Death. If you get stuck on specific wording, then you will find yourself chasing shadows in a snowstorm. In other words, take Iran and Israel out of the picture, and apply this message to just the People of God who are the followers of the Word made flesh “Christ” and the non-believers who follow the ways of the world. This now makes sense.
Report this comment
terryhamilton
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 12:36pmI cannot and will not discount the power of God through the Holy Spirit to bring people living in Iran to Christ and accept Jesus as there Savior. But I totally disagree with his assumption that Iran will become a Christian nation. The Book of Revelation tells in graphic detail how Iran, known as Persia when the Book of Revelation was written, is totally and completely destroyed. Iran or Persia will join forces with Gomer and Magog known today as Russia along with a confederation of nations to include Turkey, Sudan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon to attack Israel. When this attack happens God is going to super naturally destroy the entire armies of all these nations and Israel will prevail.
Report this comment
beckistheking
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 12:46pmI continue to be amazed at how delusional you religious pretenders are. It really is astounding. Beck pretends his Mormonism is real. You Evangelicals pretend your religion is the real one. The Muslim fanatics pretend theirs is the real one. And all of you are wrong. Mankind invented all of it. The supernatural does not exist. Thes imaginery pretend ideas separate humanity and put us all at odds with each other and us realists get dragged along for the ride. This needs to end.
Report this comment
Hiswill
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 1:18pmBeckistheKing: I believed like you for nearly 30 years. My life was spiraling out of control and I invited God to come into my life and become a part of me. He did and life has been wonderful ever since. Until you are immersed in the Holy Spirit, you will not understand God and what a life with Him brings. I don’t understand how you can go through life without Him. Read your (a) Bible, John is a great place to start. . You may have given up on God, but He never gives up on you.
Report this comment
Alex
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 1:44pmBeckistheking,
I continue to be amazed at how delusional you areligious pretenders are are. It really is astounding. Atheists pretend that the supernatural does not exist. Mankind invented atheism.
Report this comment
beckistheking
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 2:04pmAlex, my words are supported by facts, unlike yours.
Hiswill, I was a Christian for over 50 years until I made the effort to research religion in order to battle Atheists. My research revealed the truth: religion is false. It’s a false set of beliefs with absolutely no factual support. Sure, there may be some random bits of history in the mix, but it’s as false as all the nonsense liberals believe about economics and defense. Why would a deity bother with humanity and then fail to correct it about its treatment of women for example? Why would a deity use something as barbarous as human sacrafice to deliver a message? Why wouild a deity announce its presence to humanity after hiding for 100K years and then do so to a group of bronze age goat herders rather than a more sophisiticated society like the Chinese? Religion was cobbled together by ancient ignorant men who didn’t even understand what caused milk to spoil. We don’t believe their ideas about hygiene, the treatment of women, physics, chemistry, mathmatics, biology, astronomy, science etc. So why trust them when it comes to the supernatural? Face it. You’re just pretending to believe. You have no proof to support your belief, so you’re simply pretending. That’s your choice, but don’t talk down to me and don’t try to place your delusional burden on my shoulders. i can think and reason very well for myself. I don’t blindly accept anything. You shouldn’t either. You religious people will end up destroying civi
Report this comment
JeffersonsPen
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 2:24pm@Beckisking 50 years as a Christian? Then you fell away? Perhapes it no longer fit into your life choices or perhapes you blame God for something “man” has done to you? You said you once saw fit to do mind battles with athiests? It seems you lost. Perhapes you should understand lumping beliefs of the Jew, Christian and Islam(not a religion) into one is were you got lost. You “educated” know it alls are what’s destroying this country. The Lord will deal you and your kind………God Bless.
Report this comment
colt1860
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 2:25pm“Why would a deity bother with humanity and then fail to correct it about its treatment of women for example?”
The Bible says that there will be a new heaven and new earth. That there will be no more sorrow, crying and hunger. That love and grace will abound.
“Why would a deity use something as barbarous as human sacrafice to deliver a message?”
The Bible condemns human sacrifices. Jesus was the only begotten Son of God.
“And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God… Jesus said unto them… I proceeded forth and came from God… I and my Father are one.”
“Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: BUT made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, HE HUMNLED HIMSELF, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.”
“Why wouild a deity announce its presence to humanity after hiding for 100K years and then do so to a group of bronze age goat herders rather than a more sophisiticated society like the Chinese?”
God did make himself known to man, but man repeatedly rejected him, even his chosen people rejected him.
Report this comment
colt1860
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 2:29pm“The word “beginning” refers specifically to the beginning of time. However, for many years scientists were convinced that the universe was infinite (without end), and that time had always existed. The COsmic Background Explorer (COBE), also referred to as Explorer 66, was a NASA space mission designed to test the Big Bang theory of the origin of the universe and apparently provided evidence that supported the idea that the universe had a beginning..”
A Time Magazine article dated Dec. 1976 said, “Most cosmologists… scientists who study the structure and evolution of the universe, agree that the biblical account of creation, in imagining an initial void, may be uncannily close to the truth.” Adding, “…in 1929, when Astronomer Edwin Hubble used shifts in the spectral lines of light emanating from distant galaxies to calculate that the islands of stars are moving at tremendous speeds away from the earth−and from each other−like dots painted on the surface of an expanding balloon. To some scientists, this outward rush of the galaxies suggested an original cosmic explosion.”
The prophet Isaiah who lived almost 3,000 years ago stated, “It is [God] that… stretches out the heavens as a curtain, and spreads them out as a tent to dwell in.” Scientists are beginning to understand that the universe is expanding, or stretching out. Einstein also stated this.
Report this comment
colt1860
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 2:33pmThe fact that air has weight was proven scientifically only about 300 years ago. The relative weights of air and water are needed for the efficient functioning of the world’s hydrologic cycle, which in turn sustains life on the earth. The Bible says, “When [God] imparted weight to the wind and meted out the waters by measure.”
“Science has discovered that stars emit radio waves, which are received on earth as a high pitch. The Bible says, “When the morning stars sang together…” In fact, the galaxy is full of objects that emit radio waves, including black holes and stars of various kinds.”
“All matter is composed of atoms. Only in recent years has science discovered that everything we see is composed of things that we cannot see- tiny invisible particles called atoms, made up of electrons and protons, which are really not solids, but positive and negative charges of electricity. The Bible says about atomic structure, nearly 2000 years before it was discovered by scientists, “By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.”
Report this comment
colt1860
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 2:37pm“Scientists have long believed that the earth revolved around the sun, which was stationary. This caused them to scoff at the following verses which, they said, taught the opposite… “In them has He set a tabernacle for the sun, which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoices as a strong man to run a race. His [the sun's] going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.”
God asked Job, “Can you bind the cluster of the Pleiades, Or loose the belt of Orion?”. “In the last century astrophysicists have discovered that the stars of Pleiades move in unison with each other, and are thus gravitationally bound. They have also discovered that the stars of Orion are free agents that are not gravitationally bound! Interestingly, the three stars that comprise Orion’s belt appear to be closer together than the outer stars in the constellation, but are actually farther apart! (they appear closer together because of the 2-D plane we see them in)”.
God said, “Can you send lightnings, that they may go and say unto you, Here we are?” “It certainly seemed to be a scientifically ludicrous statement — that light can be sent, and then manifest itself in speech. But did you know that radio waves move at the speed of light? This is why you can have instantaneous wireless communication with someone on the other side of the earth. Science didn’t discover this until 1864.”
Report this comment
colt1860
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 2:38pm“The 1st Law of Thermodynamics states that matter can be neither created nor destroyed, and that the amount of matter in the universe remains constant. If the First Law is correct, which every scientific measurement ever made has confirmed, then the universe could not have created itself, it must have been created in the past, no further creating must be going on, and no loss of creation is occurring. The Bible is the only religious book that correctly portrays the First Law by 1) its description in Genesis of a Creator who is no longer creating, and 2) a Creator who is “upholding all things by the word of his power.”
Genesis 2:1 says (after creation): “Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.”
The Hebrew word used in the above quote is the past definite tense of the verb “finish” indicating an action completed in the past. The creation was “finished” — once and for all. That is what the First Law of Thermodynamics says. It states that neither matter nor energy can be either created or destroyed. There is no “creation” ongoing today. It is “finished” exactly as the Bible states.
The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, which states that all systems degenerate from order to disorder, was regarded by Albert Einstein to be the premier Law in science. Again the Bible is the only religious book to accurately describe this Law:
“For the heavens will vanish away like smoke, the earth will grow old like a garment.”
Report this comment
colt1860
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 2:42pmIn the book of Job (written some 3,500 years ago), God asks Job if he had entered into “the treasures of the snow”. “I can just hear the critics of yesteryear … Huh! Did He mean that blanket of white stuff that covers everything? What treasures could there possibly be in that? However with the advent of the microscope, man discovered that the ice molecules of each snowflake form in a wide variety of intricate shapes. In other words, each and every single snowflake has a unique and often beautifully symmetrical pattern.”
“Modern science has proved that the quantity of water on Earth is just enough for our needs. If the sea became three meters deeper, the water would absorb all the carbon dioxide and nitrogen, and no creature could live any longer. Isaiah 40:12 (written 2800 years ago) “Who has measured the waters in the hollow of His hand…” We are told that God has measured the waters and set a proper amount of water on the Earth. Air Currents: “The wind goes toward the south, and turns around to the north; The wind whirls about continually, And comes again on its circuit. [Ecclesiastes 1:6]” The Bible describes the circulation of the atmosphere, and includes some principles of fluid dynamics.”
When Jonah was in the depths of the ocean, he spoke of going down to the “bottoms of the mountains”. Only in recent years has man discovered that there are mountains on the ocean floor.
Report this comment
colt1860
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 2:44pm“The Bible speaks of “the paths of the seas”, referring to ocean currents, which was discovered by man only in the 1850’s. American naval officer and oceanographer Matthew Maury (1806-1873) who wrote the first textbook on modern oceanography called The Physical Geography of the Sea and Its Meteorology, was a Christian who had no doubts about the accuracy of the Bible. After an accident partially disabled him ending his active duty with the Navy, he was appointed superintendent of the US Naval Observatory in Washington. “In his Bible studies, the words of Psalm 8 stuck in his mind: ‘ … whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas’. Maury determined that if God’s Word said there were ‘paths’ in the seas, then there must be paths. So he set out to find them. He studied old ships’ logs. From these he compiled charts of ocean-wind and sea currents. To study the speed and direction of the ocean currents Maury set adrift weighted bottles known as ‘drift bottles’. These floated slightly below the surface of the water, and thus were not affected by wind. Instructions were sealed in each bottle directing anyone who found one washed ashore to return it. From the location and date on which the bottles were found, Maury was able to develop his charts of the ocean currents—the ‘paths’ of the seas—which greatly aided the science of marine navigation.”
Report this comment
colt1860
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 2:50pm“Researchers at NASA’s Ames Research Center confirmed that every element in man can be found in the soil, prompting one of the scientists to say, “…the biblical scenario for the creation of life turns out to be not far off the mark”.
“Today it is well established that If you lose your blood, you lose your life, however bloodletting or the withdrawal of often considerable quantities of blood from a patient to cure or prevent illness and almost every disease was a most common medical practice performed by doctors from antiquity up to the late 19th century. Today we know that not only is bloodletting ineffective for most diseases, in the overwhelming majority of cases it was extremely harmful to patients. Leviticus 17:11, written 3,000 years ago, declared that blood is the source of life: “For the life of the flesh is in the blood.”"
“By the 1980s, all the health organizations of the United States had adopted low-fat, high fiber dietary guidelines. This was the culmination of numerous scientific studies that had demonstrated that diets high in vegetables, fruits, and grains reduced the risk of heart disease, cancer, and many other diseases. Secular physicians generally agree that these dietary guidelines that were producing longer life spans were first developed by religious movements founded in the 1800s.”
http://www.inplainsite.org/html/scientific_facts_in_the_bible.html
Report this comment
bbyrdhouse
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 2:55pm@BECKISTHEKING
And you “pretend” that your religion is the real one.
The religion of self, rationalism, & humanism.
Report this comment
The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 3:14pmHello, Beckisking? Any response to Colt?
*crickets*
Report this comment
Favored93
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 4:38pm@Colt
I have to say that I enjoyed your posts…Well said and well done brother! :)
Report this comment
Balpit
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 5:08pmThank you, Colt.
So much for “random bits” of facts and history.
Report this comment
beckistheking
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 5:15pmJeffersonspen, you are a classic example of a non-thinking easily led person. You pose questions and then answer them yourself. You assign false motivations to others and then agree with yourself that they are true (they’re not.) And then you top your bitter little dessert with a dollop of Christian mean-spirited boilerplate hoping your sky-spirit gets me in revenge for not buying into your myth. Pretty sad.
Report this comment
Hiswill
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 5:16pmBeckistheKing: What I hold is Faith. No pretending involved. You say you were a Christian for 50 years, but did you call out to Jesus to forgive all your sin,to come into your heart and ask Him to change you into a new person? Many people think they areChristians because they go to Church every sunday and read the Bible, not so. Jesus is in me and I am in Him. I don’t just believe this, I know it.
Report this comment
beckistheking
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 5:18pmColt1860, I’m not going to bother reading through the nonsense (I skimmed it) you posted here. Your delusions are not the burdens of others, especially not mine. You religious bastards will probably end up destroying the planet for all the rest of us. Between you nutjob Evangelicals, the insane Muslim extremists and all the other superstitious lunatics (Mormons and the rest of you), the future looks pretty bleak.
Report this comment
colt1860
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 5:38pmbeckistheking is a product of the Left. They never, and I do mean NEVER, provide ANY thing remotely refuting a legitimate argument. They become dismissive, childish, brute, and resort always to name calling, and even change topics or subjects to avoid or ignore what is in actual discussion. It’s very much what Alinsky taught. In fact, the masters of the Left have so embedded Leftist ideology thinking into their discourses that the brainwashed masses don’t even realize they are being influence by such a corrupt, fraudulent and coercive thought process. The leftist minions truly are products of indoctrination and blind faith.
Report this comment
4truth2all
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 7:55pmYo Colt:
Hope all is well …
I figured one of two … you got #2 … #1 was silence
It is neither right nor left conservative nor liberal
It is deceived by darkness. I truly feel pity for these people living in the stench unwilling to grasp the hand reaching down to pull them out of it believing it is we whom have the smell of death. It is easy to see how these people will willingly kill as our enemy gets his foot further in the door.
( I know you know this) … grace
Report this comment
HoneyPot69
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 12:28pmSounds like a hoax to me…an unbelievable hoax. Jesus himself will have to see to Iran converting, otherwise this is just a crock of hooey. For those who think war with Iran would be similar to the wars with Iraq…don’t kid yourself. First, underestimating the enemy is dangerous and second, the Iranians have their own military industrial complex, which Iraq never did. Iran will not do anything, except by proxy until they have ‘the bomb’. The other thing that the U.S. media never reports on is the belief the Iranian people have in the glory of the Persian Empire, the reincarnation of which a good many Iranians support whole-heartedly and is a primary reason why no worthwhile uprising has ever materialized. They believe in their history and they want it to repeat. The future became a little less foggy when I read <>. If we don’t get our act together soon, the USA’s 250th birthday will be a dour affair.
Report this comment
larmijo
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 12:12pmWith God all things are possible. The decrease in the number of Muslims in Iran is impressive, and when people are at their most despairing time, they NEED hope. Maybe they are thirsty for Christ. Pray that He will become their water.
Report this comment
beckistheking
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 12:49pmWater? More like hogwash. All religions are born out of the imaginations of ancient ignorant men. If there was such a thing as a deity, it would be very simple to prove. The “sacrafice’ routine is nonsense. It’s brutal, ugly, primitive and miserable – nothing that any deity would inflict on its created people. Hey – it’s 2012. We know that spirits, ghost, demons, angels, invisible beings etc. aren’t real. WAKE UP HUMANITY!
Report this comment
JeffersonsPen
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 1:52pmHEY Beckiskin* Your arogance in these things show how utterly lost and ignorant you are. An athiest believes in nothing and in trying to argu your point shows your lost and afraid. I just love your type “I’m all above you people and you superstitiouse ways….because I’m just to smart for fairy tales….” You my friend will know the truth in the end ……………God have mercy on you genious!
Report this comment
ManofSteel
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 3:01pmBECKISKING (or whatever nonsensical username you’ve used)
The irony in your words is that one day you will live to regret them! When you’re “sophisticated” and “realist” world comes crashing to an end where will you go? You will go to the only source left for truth and safety…the Savior of the world, Jesus Christ. You will, in the years to come, see the reasons why “there are no atheists in foxholes”. Mark my words and take this promise to heart, you will have a change of mind and a change of heart in the coming years and you’ll wish to the God you’ve denied that you could take all your atheistic words back. Then, even with all the lies you’ve promulgated against Him, when you end up finally going to Him with sincerity of heart He will forgive you because of the unconditional love He has for you. I only wish I could be there when this comes to fruition and see your awe-struck countenance.
Report this comment
antann
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 12:12pmOpen Doors is connected with Brother Andrew who has been smuggling Bibles into anti-Christian countries since the 1950′s. I know a lot of people who have become devote Christians through his work. God’s Smuggler was about his mission to Russia and China. In 2008, he co-authored the book Secret Believers about being a Christian in the muslim world.
http://www.opendoorsca.org/content/view/81/11/
Brother Andrew came to speak in our church in 1973, and I will never forget how much he desired to help those who could not worship freely.
Report this comment
NILAP
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 12:07pmNo Iran will one day embrace their native born Bahaullah as their prophet. He is the current prophet of God for this age even though he was imperfect as all the prophets of God are and humanity will one be clear on this. Folks will learn of all of the Creator’s prophets through direct experience and not through any kind of religious organizations and faith. Prophets play a role and provide a fallible foundation through their revelations – the repository of their holy books much like the fallible US Constitution.It is up to humanity devoid of theocracies to amend those spiritual revelations i.e. – that men and women have always been equal and that monogamy whether gay or straight is the only just form of marriage that is sanctioned by the Creator. No prophet of God has proclaimed this but regular folks are more and more realizing this truth. Right now this is what I believe but that is merely faith. One day faith will be replaced with direct experience with heaven or the womb of heaven.
Report this comment
Al J Zira
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 11:58amTalk about irony! Iran could become a Christian nation before anyone in this country would allow such a profession of faith. With the atheists and agnostics on the warpath to declare the US a secular country I guess it’s more likely that Iran becomes Christian long before the US. Even though the US was Christian from it’s founding. Just saying.
Report this comment
Errant Yat
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 11:50amBut where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. Rom 5:20b-21 KJV.
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. Matt 19:26
Report this comment
The_Jerk
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 12:03pmQur’an zealots and bible zealots… no difference.
Report this comment
4truth2all
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 12:15pmdoor #1 and door # 2 … BIG difference …
Report this comment
The Giver
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 12:34pmAmen. Nothing is impossible with God.
@ THE JERK, Big difference between Muslim and Christianity is precisely Christ. The NEW Covenant which is ALL about love and forgiveness. Anyone who reads the New Testament realizes quickly that we are held to a higher level of spirituality with the New Covenant.
Atheists will realize after death of the body that Christ was is all about love. You don’t have to believe it in order to die and have your soul leave your body. It will happen anyway. Many Christians have never read the Bible either.
Report this comment
beckistheking
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 12:52pmThat’s ancient nonsense. It has no place in a modern world. Shame on you for accepting lies as truth and for not using your mind to discriminate between truth/reality and false beliefs of long dead ancient ignorant men.
Report this comment
Hiswill
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 1:57pmSatan loves to blind the minds of unbelievers. 2 Corn.4:4
Report this comment
Errant Yat
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 2:13pmTo King Beck and Jerk:
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. 1 Cor 3:19 KJV
Report this comment
Favored93
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 4:53pm@The_Jerk
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 12:03pm
Qur’an zealots and bible zealots… no difference.
—————
You are right there is no difference between those who follow Jesus who died for us to gain heaven and those who kill thinking they will gain virgins…ya no difference at all.
Report this comment
Dave.the.Blaze
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 11:47amConsidering Jeremiah is in the Old Testament, wouldn’t the interpretation that Iran become a Jewish state be more accurate? Anyway, I’m not buying this. Jeremiah is also a recognized prophet in Islam. Maybe Iran having already become a Muslim country was what the passage referenced.
Report this comment
betterpart
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 11:36amThis is what happens when self-proclaimed ‘prophets’ force a vision and understanding they do not have. The result is a twisted and false version of God’s counsel.
Report this comment
Coredestroy
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 11:35amI believe this happens after Christ comes down to rule over a thousand years. I’ll be glad to see it, but I better be wearing a robe when it happens.
Report this comment
thibx
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 11:31amwhen the shaw was in power iran was mostly christian at that time. they brought in the iman who was in exile and today you have what you have. the shaw did not allow the muslims to wear the garb they wear today. iran is not arab people they are european.
Report this comment
SirhanSirhan
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 11:29amThis guy is as nutty as Pat Robertson, John Hagee and the late Jerry Falwell. What you’re witnessing here is an example of taqiyya if there is such a thing.
Report this comment
heartitorleaveit
Posted on November 18, 2012 at 10:08pmSIrhhancyberjihadsatan: according to your beliefs, Jesus Christ is seen to be a Prophet and Envoy of God, but only a man and nothing more. As a performer of exceptional miracles, he was rescued by God from an untimely end, was raised up to heaven, stood before God and will come back to earth again and to die a Muslim after proving that Christianity is apostasy. He is not the Saviour of the world, and is certainly not God, or “the Son of God”, he is a mortal man and no more than a Prophet as compared to Muhammad, is this correct?. Just trying to get this straight.
Report this comment
heartitorleaveit
Posted on November 18, 2012 at 10:14pmSirhanSirhan
Posted on October 16, 2012 at 4:01pm
@ AKAIREYT- Luke 12:10 “And everyone who will say a word against The Son of Man (Jesus) shall be forgiven, but whoever blasphemes The Spirit of Holiness (Muhammad), it will not be forgiven to him.”
SirhanSirhan
Posted on September 24, 2012 at 5:32am
“Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the multitude of the beast: for it is the multitude of a man; and his sign is “the son of man”
Sad, very sad, this man actually believes that Revelations describes Jesus as the Antichrist!
Your words sirhound :]
Pat Robertson, John Hagee and the late Jerry Falwell couldn’t hold a candle to you.
Report this comment
BuckCompton
Posted on November 18, 2012 at 10:27pmSS: where is Jesus now?
Report this comment
The_Jerk
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 11:24amJust as crazy as those who abuse the Qur’an.
Report this comment
squigs2004
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 11:18amIt is possible that Iran could become a Christian nation if the nonMuslims say enough is enough! with God at their side. A similar thing happened in Romania, 1989. The seeds of revolution were already present, but the final straw was when Laszlo Tokes, a pastor, was being evicted by the Ceausescu government for criticizing it. The people rallied around the pastor and riots broke out all over the country driving Ceausescu out after they got the army on the side of the people. Romania formed a new government that favored individual freedoms, peaceful dissent, and religious freedom after that.
Quite an inspiring piece of history during a time when everyone else thought the darkness of Communism would remain forever over Europe. Unfortunately the West hasn’t learned the lessons that Communism and socialism don’t work.
Report this comment
john vincent
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 11:16amSorry, sir, the bible teaches the opposite-
and
‘no scripture is of any private interpretation,’ meaning, known truth cannot be violated nor explained away. The likelihood of Iran being a ‘christian’ nation is as probable as the moon disappearing yesterday….This so called teacher/scholar speaks with a forked tongue
Report this comment
Nicholson William R
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 11:40amJohn , Your explanation only is valid if your personal interpretation of the scripture quoted is the correct interpretation. That you are so blind as to think your personal interpretation is the correct one without question , just shows you to be a fool. If you truly want to even be considered as more than the run of the mill pompeous ass than leave some room for even the possibility that you may be wrong. This change in you would force you to acknowledge , that only God Knows the Exact Meaning of Every Statement He Made ! He Is Infallible , Your Attitude Shows that You think God Has A Contender ; In You !
Report this comment
john vincent
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 12:31pmnick-
my personal interpretation is both meaningless and irrelevant-
speaking with authority is not akin to ‘being pompous’ as you say.
The warp and woof of scripture disallows any other place than Jerusalem as the center of God’s purpose- therefore, any mention of Islam, MOrmonism, Buddhism, etc is relevant only as they pertain to Israel (again, not my thoughts Gods Romans 9,10,11)
I will overlook your condescending reply
Report this comment
4truth2all
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 12:36pmYo Nich:
If you wrote a book would you desire that I understand it ? Kind of a dumb question is it not ?
Gods word is precise and understandable but it does take time and effort to learn. Since it is a book of endless depth it would be a little foolish to think one knows ALL. However, there are many aspects that are not “opinion” but a matter of learned study and agreed to by all who have studied and learned.
Jesus is going to return and establish His kingdom in Jerusalem … this is stated in many more then 1 verse in scripture. Therefore, not to be taken out of context as this Pastor does with one verse in Jeremiah.
Iran would also seem to be one of the nations that will invade Israel and this will be with Russia from the north. Please check a map … and also recognize their present coperations. Another thing to consider is the continued fight over Jerusalem … why so ? The answer is really quite obvious.
You may foolishly call me a fool for my studied knowledge as you did with JOHN VINCENT … I suggest that if you be so inclined do a word study on Jerusalem.
However, it is true that many conversions are happening in many if not all muslim countries … Good day
Report this comment
john vincent
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 1:01pm4truth-
good call
Report this comment
schroeder123
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 11:16amTotal BS
Report this comment
Kumo
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 11:15amWow… I am quite surprised to hear that Christians are allowed to practice their religion freely in Iran.
Report this comment
jessieH
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 11:12amHey, anything is possible. I never thought we would re-elect a murdering traitor to the office of President. Boy, was I wrong!
Report this comment
blanco5
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 11:17amHa!
Report this comment
toiletclogga
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 11:05amThis is inspiring news!
Report this comment
caleejr
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 11:03amwhat also is interesting is – in ancient times – King Cyrus (the persian) wrote into law that the Jews could return to their homeland to rebuild the temple – and in those archives and at that time, laws issued could not be revoked.
hmmm, I wonder if [Ahmadinnerjacket] knows his Persian History
Report this comment
kickagrandma
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 11:01amProbably “when hell freezes over”. Wish you were here in AMERICA preaching t the lost, esp. the ones in government. GOD NEEDS TO GET THEIR ATTENTION, yesterday.
Report this comment
Anonymous T. Irrelevant
Posted on November 15, 2012 at 11:15amThe people in Government are lost, it’s the college kids and younger that need to be reached, before it’s too late.
Report this comment