Church vs. State: Atheist Furor Rages Over School Trip to Church’s Production of ‘A Charlie Brown Christmas’
When one thinks of typical War on Christmas targets, Charlie Brown is, perhaps, the furthest catalyst to come to mind. Yet the popular cartoon character is at the center of an atheist-led battle in Little Rock, Arkansas, against the popular play and its production at a local house of worship.
The controversy commenced when some teachers at Terry Elementary School sent letters home to parents regarding taking first and second-grade students to see “A Charlie Brown Christmas” at Agape Church, KARK-TV recently reported. While the event isn’t school sanctioned, local atheists are outraged that educators are planning to take children to see the play, which includes religious themes.
Photo Credit: AP
“We’re not saying anything bad about Charlie Brown,” Anne Orsi, a lawyer and vice-president of the Arkansas Society of Freethinkers (ASF), told KARK-TV. ”The problem is that it’s got religious content and it’s being performed in a religious venue and that doesn’t just blur the line between church and state, it over steps it entirely.”
A concerned parent, who wishes to remain anonymous, contacted Orsi’s group and explained her concern over the letter and the stage production. In the end, she has decided to let her daughter attend, citing fears that she may face criticism and be targeted for a refusal to see the show. Orsi said that the choice non-believing parents are faced with is unfair.
If their children are kept away from the church production, she contended that they “will be singled out as being different from the majority.” The non-believing attorney dubbed the scenario “awkward” and “unacceptable.”
Photo Credit: AP
A portion of the letter sent home by teachers can be read, below:
“This production will expose your child to the amazing world of theater productions and enhance your child’s creative imagination in the area of dramatic arts. . . . This production does expose your child to Christianity through some of the songs and scenes. (If you prefer your child to not attend the program they may stay at school and be allowed to sit in another classroom. Please let your teacher know if your child will not be attending).”
According to the note, the play will be at 10 a.m. on Dec. 14. Kids whose parents wish to allow them to attend will need to pay $2 to cover their transportation. Because the event is being held on a school day and is taking place inside a house of worship, non-believers are, naturally, up in arms. However, they deny waging a war on Christmas — or religion, for that matter.
Photo Credit: Getty
“Those who stand up for the rights of children to be free from coercion aren’t making war either on religion or Christmas,” ASF spokesperson LeeWood Thomas said in a statement. “Rather this is a case of a church forming an alliance with local government to violate religious freedom.”
The church, too, put out a written statement, explaining the importance of the production to the community as a whole.
“We hope the complaint or question of a few does not override the opportunity for everyone,” it read. “This production also included a food drive for area pantries, and we hope that purpose is not lost as well.”
What do you think? Should the school prevent teachers from taking students or are atheists making a big deal out of nothing? Let us know in the comments section.
(H/T: KARK-TV)
In CONTROL, Glenn Beck presents a passionate, fact-based case for guns that reveals why gun control isn’t really about controlling guns at all; it’s about controlling us. Find out more HERE.
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Comments (532)
chips1
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:42pmIf they get rid of the Dept. of Ed then each school is independent and they can’t claim separation of church and state which doesn’t exist anyway. Then the athiests can enroll in the school of vampires. Now everyone will be happy.
DadRocked
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:54pmWith respect to Charlie Daniels and his epic song… ‘SIMPLE MAN’
♪ ♪ Well you know what’s wrong with the world today
People done gone and put their Bibles away
There livin’ by law of the jungle not the law of the land
Well the good book says it, so I know it’s the truth
An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth
You’d better watch where you go
And remember where you’ve been
That’s the way I see it I’m a simple man ♫
♪ ♪And I’ve got a way to put an end to all that mess
You just take those rascals out in the swamp
Put them on their knees and tie ‘em to a stump
And let the rattlers and the bugs and the alligators do the rest. ♫
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edwest70
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:58pmRight, because not believing in one of the countless gods qualifies you to attend vampire school. /Derp
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DadRocked
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 7:17pmEdWest70 – You jumped and missed his point completely…
That’s so different, kind of like going deer hunting and asking saying that’s not how you gig a frog.
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nzkiwi
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 7:44pm@ Chips
I don’t think that the Dept. of Ed is the problem. American atheists seem to be almost scared of Christianity. People only “war” with that which they fear.
I am an atheist but I am always bemused by the ferocity of these attacks on Christianity in your country. I seldom get into this subject with Christians as I feel that I have no business criticising someone else’s core beliefs.
I use expressions that might be considered religious, such as “thank God” etc in my normal conversation, and I do not offend myself. I believe that Jesus was a real person, and that the principles espoused by Christianity have been a great boon to civilisation overall.
Occassionally I am invited by Christians to explain my position and I do so with respect and honesty. This usually results in those Christians telling me that they will pray for me and that Jesus loves me anyway.
Who can possibly be offended by hearing that “Jesus loves you” (unless, of course, one happens to be locked up in a Mexican prison at the time)?
Who can possibly be offended by seeing a Christmas play, which is always based on the principles of love and goodwill? My small children go to school sponsored Christmas plays every year, and I’m pleased that they do so. I also teach them the story behind Easter.
In depth theological discussions can wait until they are older, but for now, I am happy that they learn about, and follow, Christian principles.
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Pigpen
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 8:28pmI second getting rid of the Dept of Education. But I also say that Christians need to wake up and fight back. These atheists will NOT STOP at the schools anymore than the baby killers stopped at early term abortion in the first trimester for incest, rape, or health of the mother.
However, the United States of America celebrates three holidays which are hotly contested more and more every year. It is not coincidence that these three holidays commemorate events of which were prophesied in the Book of Mormon. These holidays are Christmas Day, Thanksgiving Day, and Columbus Day. The coming of Jesus Christ the Savior of the World was foretold by the ancient prophet Nephi in the Book of Mormon in 1 Nephi 10:4 And that same prophet foretells the coming of both Christopher Columbus and the Mayflower in the Book of Mormon in 1 Nephi 13:11-14
I know that Divine Providence brought my White, Christian people here to the Americas. It was ordained and delivered by God the Heavenly Father. I know that Heavenly Father sent his Son Jesus Christ to be the Savior of the World so that all men could return to live with Him. The United States of America is a WHITE CHRISTIAN COUNTRY by the GRACE OF GOD. No excuses. No exceptions. THIS I TESTIFY to you all in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
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DEMOCRATS.ARE.EVIL
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 8:30pmI’m not sure who is worse…the predatory atheists …or their cousins, the predatory child sex abusers. They both do so much damage in the name of getting even with the world for what happened to them in their own childhood.
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edwest70
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 8:30pmThe Holy Ghost knows you are not really “loling” or “ha ha’ing” Tommy2times. You have anger in those ignorant keystrokes.
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 8:44pm@NZKIWI
It’s Christianity that call these things “wars.”
War on religion
War on Christmas
Trust me, I could care less about someone wishing me a Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, or anything.
But have a store that wants to wish people Happy Holidays and IT’S A WAR ON CHRISTMAS, BOYCOTT!
Btw, what country do you live in?
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nzkiwi
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 8:48pmNew Zealand…
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DadRocked
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 8:57pmNZKiwi – “New Zealand…”
Great response NZ
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nzkiwi
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 9:10pm@ Dadrocked
I had to smile at the question. I would have thought that my avatar and moniker supplied sufficient clues.
Guess not… :)
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nzkiwi
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 9:24pmYou know, a well-known Irish comedian named Dave Allen (well known here and in the UK anyway) who was an atheist, had a rather cordial, almost loving, relationship with Christianity. He used to finish each of his shows with the words “Good night, good luck, and may your God walk with you.”
Like most non-American atheists he had a great respect for Christianity. This did not stop him from pointing out its little foibles from time to time, but in a very gentle way.
I hope that no-one is offended by this, and I doubt that anyone will be, I post it because it is amusing and may lighten the mood of the discussion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxo81Ok9Urk
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Keatonc333
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 9:48pmSo as an atheist… personally i LOVE christmas! I feel that atheists like this do us no good! my main point for my opposition of christianity, and I think the main point in general, is that I don’t like peoples personal beliefs being pushed onto others. I.E. gay marriage, abortion. But these atheists who lash out over meaningless stuff like this are just doing the exact same thing! they are just as bad as the christians holding their beliefs over others heads. shame on you atheists activists. you simply just don’t get it.
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Keatonc333
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 9:51pmIgnore Tommy.Tommy.. he forgot to bring his helmet onto the short bus one day… the rest is history
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Coyote1953
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 10:27pmKiwi,
I agree with you. I don’t have anger for anyone.
Apparently many atheists and religious ppl do.
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Ulysses.
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 10:31pmYeah, okay. Then next week the kids are going to a mosque to watch a theatrical rendition of Charlie Brown goes to mecca. Seperation of church and state was intended purposefully by the deist founders. If you don’t believe in the constitution, then you don’t believe in America. Don’t forget our founders came to America to get away from the church being involved in government. Go to Charlie Brown on your own time, not during school. Your comment shows how much you understand of what America is about. You sound more like the Muslim brotherhood, except just a different religion.
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edwest70
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 10:46pmWhy should I respect their beliefs? You can be good without a god, and the god of the bible was a serial killer. Sure, you can find some good lessons in the bible, but why swallow the entire pill? Christianity is worthy of ridicule and with an all powerful god on their side, you’d think they’d have more sense.
The comedian link was funny, but I prefer George Carlin & Sam Kinison for the lulz. And Sam Harris or Hitchens when I really want to laugh at silly christians.
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Locked
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 10:57pmPretty ridiculous. Sure, in an ideal universe a public school wouldn’t need to take a group of children to a local church to see a movie… but really? The Christian content of this production is MAYBE 10% of the entire thing (and that’s being generous).
Some people are just overly sensitive.
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Git-R-Done
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 11:17pmEd – Yet it’s you hatetheists who have killed more people than any religion has yet you want this country to respect your kind? Get over it that there’s freedom of religion in this country.
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shorelineliz
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 11:39pmCHIPS1: Atheists are vampires. They are and have been sucking this society, nation, culture’s blood for decades. They should be hunted down with holly, garlic, stakes and silver bullets. Nobody should give a damn about what they think. They are a constant menace. They are not only religious bigots and haters they are blood drinkers. They won’t be happy unless everyone is like them. Cold, unfeeling, ice in veins, those who must live in the dark and run when the light arrives because it would burn them alive.
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Ulysses.
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 12:57amI find it funny how you crazy Christians are on Glenn Becks website. When Glenn Beck isn’t even christian. He’s Mormon! Please somebody try and say Mormons are christian and ill show you an idiot knowing nothing about Mormons. Hell, go research it yourself. Billy graham calls them a cult, and has for years. It’s about the only thing I agree with him on.
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nzkiwi
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 1:22amPeople like Tommy arrive on this site and try to be as aggravating as possible, then they disappear again. I feel kind of sorry for him. What a desperately sad little person.
Also, he seems to be forgetting that this story revolves around Christmas, not homosexuals, not vampires (thanks, Shoreline), or whatever else.
So let’s look at Christmas.
It isn’t a pagan festival except that it occurs on the winter solstice (thus the fire, tree, feast, etc). Santa Claus was, in fact, a real person. He was Saint Nicholas of Myra. His name became shortened to “Sinterklaas” for the children in Holland, and then “Santa Claus” in the west. He was a devout and holy man who began to give poor children gifts (candy or small toys) at Christmas time. The word “Christmas” comes from “Christ’s Mass”, the midnight mass.
In 1897, a small 8 y.o. girl wrote to the New York Sun asking if there really was a Santa Claus. The Sun replied in an editorial that remains famous to this day. Every time I read it I get a little prickle of tears in my eye.
This, Tommy and Shoreline is what it is really all about.
http://www.newseum.org/yesvirginia/clipping.htm
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gandalf1g
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 2:15amGood post NZ. Im might describe myself as agnostic. The teachings of all the religions are a good map for human behavior,although I might leave Islam out. If you obey the Ten Commandments your behaving in a decent manner. I am particularly enthused that you take such a balanced approach with your Children. They can form their own opinion after they mature
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November26
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 5:31amYeah, you don’t want kids seeing Charlie Brown, what a bad example. Read fresh political commentary at: http://smallcraftadvisorychronicles.blogspot.com/
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tommy.tommy
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 8:14amNzkiwi
I can care less about your pagan Christmas. ha ha We know? It was adopted by the pagan catholic church and their lying ways. By reading blaze headlines? Most of you fables catholics voted for Evil Obama. Why? Because, your pagan church is a disorder of mentally ill and chaos. Face it, you are the same as the lefties loons and the nasty homosexuals. Now, you fables catholics are finding out? You fables catholics has “mental disorders” in your congregation . Like the filthy homosexuals. You don’t live by..what’s right and wrong. Same with the filthy homosexuals. Also, I didn’t vote at all. I believe in my Church ways and I believe in prophecy of the Bible. Which it’s coming true as I write. Believe me, I won’t believe in the lying catholics ways. That’s for sure. lol
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brother_ed
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 10:33am@ULYSSES.
Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are Christians.
Joseph Smith, Jr was once asked: “What is the difference between your religion and the other Christian sects?”. He replied: “We believe in the Bible and they do not.”
NZKIWI
You are proof that we can all get along.
I enjoy a true man of reason; they do not get insulted by a differing point of view.
I’m sure many here at the Blaze would pitch in to defray your relocation costs if you decide to move over. Of course, we may be moving there shortly.
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theotherberean
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 1:00pm@BROTHER ED
Can I believe that Joseph Smith is a false prophet and the Book of Mormon is not inspired, and still be LDS?
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Patriot Z
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 1:21pmno …cause vampires hate these whiny people just as much as we do. according to the vampire community. people enrolled at thes “free thinkers” taste terrible, ….”they are bitter and lack any nutritional value, but claim to be full of benifits, they are the equvilent of snake oil in the vampire community…” an anonymous vamp was quoted as saying.
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NoIntelligentLifeOnThisPlanet
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 1:41pmPersonally I find it ironic that this is being initiated by the Arkansas Society of Freethinkers. Only if you think like I do?
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I am 'We the People
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 1:59pmNZKIWI,
I have read your posts and hold you in esteem for your honesty and true openness in the freedom of belief. You seem to be a very good person and should god really exist and the soul be real, I would imagine that you would be judged with the righteous.
*now the hate comes on me* :)
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brother_ed
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 2:11pm@THEOTHERBEREAN
No.
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jowettusmc
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 2:51pmExcellent idea! Thank you for this idea.
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georgette
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 3:19pm—- your beliefs are yours ..do not make them a problem for someone else….
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Prudibel
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 4:21pmThe atheists can bite me. Christians are entitled to their beliefs and should tell the atheists to shove it.
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athynz
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 5:18pmEdWest70 asked why should we (atheists) respect their (Christian) beliefs? Why then should WE respect your beliefs? Personally I could care less what God or not that you worship or don’t – I have my religious beliefs but I’m not going to push them on you, In turn I expect – no, I demand you do not push yours on me. Nor is this trip pushing anyone’s religious beliefs on anyone… it’s Charlie Brown not Passion of the Christ.
And the parents were given the option to opt out – if those parents lack of the cajones to stand behind their beliefs then that is not the school’s problem or the government’s problem but theirs.
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Sunfire77
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 6:05pmHow can the beliefs of Christians cause such a furor? The beliefs that :
1. We will not kill or harm our fellow man nor beat them unmercifully for any reason
2. We will not steal or take from another.
3. We will not bear false witness.
4. We will treat others with respect.
5. We will feed the hungry and clothe the poor.
6. We will help others in desperate need, even take them into our homes if needby.
7. We will visit the sick and dying, comfort them and pray for and with them.
8. We will tithe 10% or more of our earnings to our church to help others and do it joyfully.
9. We will donate our time and energy at foodbanks, serving others.
10.We will invite you to our church or Sunday School or church camp retreat.
11.And above all, we will tell you about our Jesus and witness to you BUT only if you are willing to listen and we will never push it on you if you are not interested.
How can you find fault with a person like this? Does this sound like a threat to society? If the Christians suddenly disappeared…would they be missed and would this be a better place?
Now tell me, who would you rather have as a friend or neighbor…a Christian, or an Atheist?
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theotherberean
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 6:35pm@BRO ED
Then how can LDS be considered Christian if they believe in a different Jesus and a different God than Christians? Isn’t that a double standard?
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PATTY HENRY
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 7:00pmHave to admit: I’m fascinated at the time we were chosen to live in. NONE of us know where we came from, can’t prove where we’re going; can’t prove there is no GOD, have a lot more evidence that there is (Love, Souls, Miracles) …with that being said I would like to people to think: How is it a rock get formed and gets to last for millions of years, but a human being only gets about 80 years? or: How does GOD who created everything give us life, but then ends it – I thought He loved us! or: Where does LOVE come from? Where does sense of right and wrong come from? Not touching fire could be a survival thing, but wanting to love someone??
It makes a lot more sense to see LIFE on EARTH as a temporary School. GOD created people – sin tainted earth via a jealous angel and is useful for the ‘tests’ people go through to determine their readiness to live eternal lives. Yet we have a group of people who admittedly don’t use more than 1% of their brain power, who don’t know (really) any of the answers to life, who can’t answer any of the questions but refuse to believe they were created? They can’t explain why there are still monkeys if we evolved from Monkeys …. can’t explain individual finger prints…and of course, they can’t explain LOVE. These are very immature people who are guilty of THE sin…not believing or wanting to believe in GOD. Yet GOD so loved us that He sent His son to DIE for us. Very ungrateful, eh?
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deanied
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 7:08pmOh for GODs SAKE!! This is harrassment & bullying! If they don’t want their kids to see it…DON’T TAKE THEM! Do they even HAVE kids…OH GOD….. I HOPE NOT!
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Wolfgang the Gray
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 8:26pmSimple solution.
Christians: All of the parents with children that want to go & learn about the real reason behind Christmas, give your kid $2 & sign the consent form.
Atheists: All of the parents with children that want to their tikes to learn “the truth”, take them out of school for the day & down to the local landfill so they can see what decomposition is all about. Since you don’t believe in God, Jesus, or Christmas, your children can discover that when they die, your belief is that their body decays and they become a snack for the worms in the ground.
Non-Christian Believers: Take your child out of school that day & spend the day telling them about Hannukah, Kwanza, Tet, Ramadan, or whichever holiday of your religious version that you wish to educate your child upon.
There, everyone gets to teach their kid what they want, without stepping on the rights of others to allow their child to learn what their parents want. The production does well, the school does well, & the children learn something they may have not known before.
As for the attorney that apprently wants to quell any thinking or culture outside of “the majority”, give him some KY & stick his head back up his arse so he can learn more about his crappy ideas.
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brother_ed
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 9:04pm@THEOTHERBEREAN
Because they’re wrong means I’m not a Christian?
I believe in the same Jesus the Apostles believed in – not the Trinitarian Jesus.
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nzkiwi
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 11:46pm@ I am We the People
That is, without doubt, one of the kindest things anybody has ever said to me. I can’t think od anything to say except thank you very much.
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DIgnified
Posted on November 27, 2012 at 12:06amWhat do you mean it doesn’t exist? Here, read about the supreme courts ruling on that whole first amendment thing.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/first_amendment
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smv803
Posted on November 27, 2012 at 11:42am@NZKIWI
Funny video, thank you. That’s Catholicism for you….a frightening religion if there is one!
Religion is man searching for God
Christianity is God seeking man
Religion says do
Christianity says done
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Obama.is.NOT.my.Dictator.Leader.Fuehrer.President
Posted on November 27, 2012 at 8:47pmI am glad there ISN’T and law that states a “Freedom FROM religion”
there is only one “Freedom OF religion” right that prohibits the making of any law impeding the free exercise of religion.
So, while the Atheist are impeding the free exercise of religion, the Theater outing does not.
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bravjim
Posted on November 28, 2012 at 9:56amUlysses:
We are all entitled to our opinions, but we are not entitled to our own facts. The facts are the truth, and the truth is that our founding fathers were Christians, except perhaps Thomas Paine, the only one I’ve found that was actually a deist or atheist. The rest believed in Christianity in one form or another. Jefferson did not believe in the deity of Christ, but did believe that His teachings “tended all to the most sublime happiness of men.” What is more, they all argued that virtue and morality are indispensable supports of liberty, because the more debased people become, the more need of masters they have. For this reason, they actually started numerous schools in order to teach the Bible, and I have access to literally hundreds, if not thousands, of quotes stating as much from the founding fathers. Granted, over the past 60 years or so, there has been a movement away from Christianity in this country, and a movement to reject Christ and His teachings from out of this country. The net result is the country has embraced immoral policies as good, such as abortion and homosexual marriage and promiscuity has become the norm. As a result, the nation has lost it’s virtue, and find ourselves in more need of masters.
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tommy.tommy
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:29pmI know, Christmas is a pagan holiday. It was started by the pagan catholic church long time ago. But I can’t stand filthy atheists and the homosexuals. They’re the same people. But I believe in Jewish holidays from the Bible.
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edwest70
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:53pmLulz. I hope you are sterile.
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Stelex
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 7:06pmEdWest…….I suspect you will not reproduce. Sorry, no eggs up the outdoor.
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tommy.tommy
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 7:07pmedwest70
Yep, you fables catholics are the same as the filthy homosexuals. There’s no doubt about that. ha ha They say the samething as you do. Like I say to the filthy homosexuals and you fables catholics? Too late. My kids will learn the truth from the Bible. Not living in lies like you pagan catholics. Also, Jesus birthday already pass. Now, you pagan catholics are having your pagan ritural of sungod for christmas. lol
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edwest70
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 7:20pmTommy^2 – When your kids grow up and are ashamed of you, remember how in the age of information, you chose a stagnant book for your life guide. The bible is a joke and is a copy of stories and other gods that predate it. Or did that mean ole devil just make it look that way. Ha!^3
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theotherberean
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 7:29pmFor the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are dying, but to us who are saved it is the power of God.1 Cor 1:18
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tommy.tommy
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 7:34pmedWest70
‘Oh you’re filthy sodomite homosexual, huh? Thank God. Sodom and Gomorrah is no myth for nasty homosexuals. Thanks to your science. Also, your ancestors will make a space for you at Sodom and Gomorrah. lol
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theotherberean
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 9:26pmI’ve often wondered how Tommy can type so fast without spilling his drink.
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tommy.tommy
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 9:35pmtheotherberean
What this? Tell me….What you are? Then, I can tell your story. lol
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theotherberean
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 9:52pmI could be your father. I ran with the devil before I was saved.
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Keatonc333
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 9:53pmWhy can you not stand homosexuals? were you beat up by some gay kids as a child? i don’t get why you would hate someone just because they are a little different…
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theotherberean
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 9:56pmHey KEAT, don’t feed the animals….
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Keatonc333
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 9:59pmTommy tommy.. if you are going to cite the bible as your basis for hating homosexuality. then you must also believe…
Any person who curseth his father or mother must be killed
~Leviticus 20:9
People who have flat noses, or are blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God
~Leviticus 21:17-18
The eating of fat is prohibited forever
~Leviticus 3:17
Entrance into the assembly of the Lord was granted only to those with complete testicles
~Deuteronomy 23:1
Stubborn children are to be stoned, and the stoning is to be instigated by their parents
~Deuteronomy 21:18-21
False prophets are to be killed by their own parents
~Zechariah 13:3A
rape victim must marry the rapist.
Deuteronomy 22:28-29
Oh and of course all rich people are going to hell. Matthew 19:24
Also no eating of Pig, Cheese or shellfish! so surely you follow all these ideas.. otherwise you’d just be a hateful bigoted hypocrite..
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Keatonc333
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 10:01pmtrue.. sorry berean!
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tommy.tommy
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 10:05pmKeaton
Who sissies homosexuals? Also, the nasty homosexuals go boo’hoo and cry like little sissies girls. You made me laugh on that one. I have to say. HA HA.
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theotherberean
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 10:15pmSEE?
ha ha ha
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Keatonc333
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 10:24pmTheotherberean.. hahaha I have learned my lesson!
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tommy.tommy
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 10:36pmKeaton
I left you message on 3.
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edwest70
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 10:37pmTommy2times- Maybe you should write in your native tongue and use google translator. I’m sure you’ve got some great things to say, but your fingers are betraying you.
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tommy.tommy
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 10:47pmEdwest
Sorry, I don’t speak homosexual language. Sounds like… you and kenton are **** buddies. lol
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tommy.tommy
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 11:05pmUlysses
If you filthy homosexuals touch my kids? They would have to call under-taker for you. ha ha I know, the Bible far more and the truth. Than, these lying fables catholics. It also said in the Bible to stone you, right? But I live by Jesus rules.
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Ulysses.
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 11:18pmTommy. Lol. Dumbest person on here. Now, I know you’re just making stuff up off the top of that echo chamber you call a head. I’m not gay, not Catholic and your assumptions show how dumb you really are. I feel bad for your kids, they should be taken away from you. You’re just a idiot talking tough behind a computer. I’d say your just another fat, lazy pig who did way to many drugs as a teen.
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tommy.tommy
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 11:30pmUlyssles
I guess, I can’t see your homosexual ways. ha ha Which I’m better off that way. You should be a proud closet homosexual. I mean, that what? It sounds to me about you. It must be living in that fairy world, too much. There’s people, who can’t stand filthy homosexuals. Like me.
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nzkiwi
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 6:42amIf anybody is unaware of what Tommy is doing, then you should read this…
http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/leftist-trolls-in-ongoing-war-with-wnd/
It applies to World News Daily, but we obviously have similar visitors here – Tommy being the most obvious.
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tommy.tommy
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 8:45amNzkiwi
I can’t help stupid, like you. I show the facts and I expose the truth about the filthy lying catholic church. Sorry, I don’t have that blindness on my forehead. Like you fables catholics likes to put on people foreheads. It doesn’t work on me. ha ha. Also, I’m a independent. Independents stand for truth. Not the filthy lying catholics ways.
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nzkiwi
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 10:08amI meant World Net Daily.
How much are you being paid, Tommy? You can tell us…
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tommy.tommy
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 10:45amNzkiwi
Ha ha. Getting pay? My Church teaches us to show the truth about the fable catholic church or others like them. I’m order by God to show the truth. Because God wants to save true Christians and true Jews. Hopefully, they can wipe their blindness way. What you fables catholics has teach them as lies to them….lol
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ssvineman
Posted on November 27, 2012 at 1:13amWow, is it just me or does Tom.Tom here throw out homosexual and catholic more then Obama supporters call racist?
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GUYFROMMAINE
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:24pmNotice how these “freethinkers” are so closeminded? It is like they are paranoid.
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Ulysses.
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 11:23pmYou want your kids to go to a mosque for charlie Brown goes to mecca? Didn’t think so.
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BODYBAG
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 1:04amStill waiting for the first “Freethinker” atheist lawyer to step up who is ready to die to defend
their non-belief.
I’ll volunteer to be the one to test the concept.
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endthemindlessspending
Posted on November 27, 2012 at 6:38am@ULYSSES
I would allow my kids to attend because it is good to take in other faiths. It is people like these so called ‘FREETHINKERS’ that make the world so bigoted. They are no better than the old slave owners raising their kids to not consider the ***** people as their equal. I work in children’s ministry at my church watching the toddlers and they do not see the world in black and white, believer or nonbeliever or muslim or christian. We as people could learn a lot if we only lived with our minds as open as it was when we were toddlers. We learn of all this hate in our society as we grow up and feel we have to pick sides. This is why I’m a libertarian, I feel as long as you’re not harming another person physically, or hindering their freedom then you can believe what you would like. If you don’t want your kids exposed to that criteria then keep them home for the day, But when you hide someone from knowing another peoples beliefs that is when hate and racism win.
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IMCHRISTIAN
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:19pmWell, if the children aren’t exposed to anything then that means they know and believe nothing and that seems atheistical to to me. So I object to atheism so no more of this is my face here or anywhere. Well that sounds like they do in reverse doesn’t it?
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kilo62a
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:29pmEveryone seems to miss the point. This is not a seperation of church and state issue although it is diguised as one. It is an attempt by an organized religion (atheists) and their lawyers to impose their religion on the rest of us. The Constitution does a superb job at protecting the minority from an abusive majority, but it does nothing to protect the majority from the abusive minority.
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orkydorky
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:54pmAtheism is a lack of religion, not a religion. Those who want may opt out, so what is the foul? I’m sure the Atheists don’t complain or opt out of the vacation time created by the Christmas holiday! These folks need to get a life and leave other folks alone!
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DadRocked
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 7:38pmOrkyDorky – In a nutshell… That’s all that we ask for isn’t it?
♪ ♪ ‘Cos I ain’t askin’ nobody for nothin’,
If I can’t get it on my own.
If you don’t like the way I’m livin’,
You just leave this long-haired country boy alone♫
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edwest70
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 8:27pmYou really are a “simple man.” :)
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theotherberean
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 8:41pmSimple Kinda Man is one of my favorite songs.
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DadRocked
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 9:28pmAnd appropriate for this article… :
♪ ♪ ‘Well you know what’s wrong with the world today
People done gone and put their Bibles away
There livin’ by law of the jungle not the law of the land
Well the good book says it, so I know it’s the truth
An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth
You’d better watch where you go
And remember where you’ve been
That’s the way I see it I’m a simple man♫
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theotherberean
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 9:54pmYou got it DAD.
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jungle J
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:15pmatheists are viscous savages at best…even when they are smiling..they love trouble all the while pretending to be loyalites and helpful humans…they are at best wolves in sheep’s clothing…I would think that most criminals are atheists…especially sexual predators hiding behind religion to move like snakes through the grass….. .the sane understand
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edwest70
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 7:08pmYeh, all those priests and leaders of the GOP can’t fall out of the closet fast enough! I had no idea there were so many sheep suits for sale!
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DadRocked
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 7:19pmEdWest – “Yeh, all those priests and leaders of the GOP”
Wow, their are no priest/pastors or leaders of the DNC?
You’re turn to go to the back of the bus…
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edwest70
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 8:34pmNo, it’s “you are” turn. :)
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Ulysses.
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 11:06pmNope, sorry. Only.02% of the prison population is atheist. Wanna know what the majority is? Christian! 82% actually. I’m surprised you even know how to use a computer with a comment that dumb.
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theotherberean
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 10:49amAnd fully 85% of prisoners doing hard time were raised by a single parent, most typically their mother.
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thegraydog
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 3:50pmAll child preadtors are atheist? Are you forgetting about Catholic Priests?
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The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 4:11pmAre you forgetting school teachers? And that 1/3 of molestations are committed by homosexuals?
Think before you post, or spout off ignorant stereotypes.
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justangry
Posted on November 27, 2012 at 8:57am@Jungle, That’s pretty harsh, man. That would be like me saying, “Christians are weak-minded sheep, lacking self-confidence that will never understand freedom. They already have submitted to a mystical despot, therefore submitting to real ones isn’t that difficult.”
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DadRocked
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:14pmHeadline reads; “Atheist Furor Rages”
Charlie Brown’s CHRISTmass at a church has them in a raging furor.
Boo Hoo…
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justangry
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 9:21amGranted anyone upset about this is a little extreme, however you can’t possible buy the propaganda of this piece. I’m sure any furor and rage are exaggerated, and this is just another deflection of who really hates you Blaze Christians. All I got to say is there were NO ATHEISTS on the court when deciding how the establishment clause was to be interpreted. EVER!!
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John 1776
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:14pmSo, let me get this whole atheism thing straight. They believe:
In the beginning there was nothing.
Then, nothing happened to the nothing and it suddenly became everything..
Then the “everything” rearranged itself and became self-replicating bits that turned into dinosaurs.
Ok there…. That makes so much more sense now!
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DadRocked
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:20pm“By Jove! I think he’s got it”
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kickagrandma
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:39pmHi, JOHN~~~ Don’t forget it then morphs into climate change ……. ; )
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DadRocked
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:51pmKickAGrandma – Now don’t be an instigator… :)
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edwest70
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 7:15pmSo let me get this straight, you guys think:
A god made the earth and everything in it in 7 days, and then rested. God’s get tired?
He aborts his creation with a flood, but is pro-life.
He kills his own son(himself) to save us.
And he hears you making wishes into your pillow each night, and usually tells you no, but you make excuses for why that is ok.
Ha!
You kids are so silly.
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DadRocked
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 7:22pmWest – “So let me get this straight, you guys think: “A god made the earth and everything in it in 7 days, and then rested.”
You’re catching on…
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DadRocked
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 7:42pmWest – “You kids are so silly.”
Real men don’t use the word “silly” to often, if at all… What’s your deal?
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Remember_Benghazi
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 8:42pmSo, let me get this straight. Christians believe the first woman came from a rib and dust. Makes perfect sense.
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theotherberean
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 9:28pmEvolutionists believe that spiders came from rocks. What’s the rub?
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Ron_A
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 11:09pmLike a tornado blowing through a junk yard and leaving a fully assembled 747 in it’s wake. I get it now.
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Ulysses.
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 11:40pmSame stupid infinite regression argument.
What made god?
If you say he always existed beyond time and never needed creation, and it’s the same as the big bang. You can keep going on and on for infinity and any answer you make up, can also be used by the other side.
Look it up for crying out loud. Infinite regression.
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fixer
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 10:42amshe contended that they “will be singled out as being different from the majority.
so whats the problem? they are different from the majority.a bunch of low lifes
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theotherberean
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 10:48amNo, God is the creator while the Big Bang is the created.
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ranchoazulmt
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 1:27pmNo Ed. It was 6 days. He rested on the 7th.. Silly goose
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smv803
Posted on November 27, 2012 at 11:58amExcellent John…..you forgot the Big Bang! Look, my iPad automatically capitalized it. Now let’s see if it does the same for the word god? Nope, it didn’t. This world is dying a slow death and no one is paying attention!
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ktowers
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:13pmWhat if the Charlie Brown video contained references to Islam in a positive way? Would you feel okay with your tax money going to fund an excursion of that kind?
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DadRocked
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:16pmSAY WHAT? First off it didn’t and secondly What If’s do not count!
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ktowers
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:22pmYou’re dodging, Dad. Something tells me your answer is no, you would not support it in that case, but please correct me if you like.
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puravida56
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:28pmExactly. The hypocrisy here is sickening. If the kids had gone to a mosque to watch a play that put Islam in a positive light, the outrage on this board would be unbelievable!!
I’m agnostic, and believe it or not, I like that charlie brown episode. I may even watch it with my kid at home and compare it to the great pumpkin episode. We could have a talk about what is more plausible. However, i would not want my kids to be subject to indoctrination of any religion while at a pubic school.
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Polarized America
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:29pmIslam in a positive way?………..whats that ?…if you show a cartoon of ” mo’” even in a positive way they will try to blow it up …silly
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TeresaJ
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:35pmA. Our “tax money” is not funding the CHURCH SPONSERED play.
B. Any parent has a right to opt out. IF it was something I found objectional, I would simply sit my child out.
Actually, schools have become such cesspools in my area, I opt out of them altogether. Kudos to this school. Charlie Brown Christmas is an excellent show that I would love my children to learn from. Peace on earth, good will to men (Maybe the complaining parent should go? *Thinks*)
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Taquoshi
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:43pmSchools have actually been taken to mosques, where the male and female students were separated for “lessons”. The one thing I don’t understand is that unless one is a professing Muslim, one can not enter the “sanctuary” (right word??). Therefore, a play for the elementary students couldn’t be held there.
Many churches have fellowship halls that are not part of the sanctuary and frequently, these areas have modified stages complete with curtains, spot lights and sound equipment for plays and other events. So, the student might not even be going into the main sanctuary of the church.
However, in terms of shows with positve portrayals of Islam, Little Mosque on the Prairie should fill the bill. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Mosque_on_the_Prairie In my mind, comedy and Islam are universes apart and I would probably not allow a child of mine to go on a field trip to a mosque (very unlikely to happen) to see one of those episodes done as a play.
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ktowers
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:45pmPURAVIDA56, I’m actually playing a bit of a Devil’s advocate here. I’m ok with my kids going to the play, as long as kids have an opt out, which they apparently do. I also have good reason to believe the earth is very old and that biological evolution is a fact because of the physical evidence. Exposing kids to all the evidence and ideas that you can is the right way to go. Let them explore the science. Let them learn about all types of religion. Allow them to make up their own minds.
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DadRocked
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:50pmKTowers – “What if the Charlie Brown video contained references to Islam in a positive way?”
My point is that the video does not reference nor relate to Islam and the article is about an atheist group who really doesn’t care about anything with religion.
“Would you feel okay with your tax money going to fund an excursion of that kind?”
Since this is a WHAT IF… What If’s do not count – I will not lower myself to the what if’s !
puravida56 – “Exactly. The hypocrisy here is sickening”
Your very comment of the hypocrisy is well… Hypocritical Your judgment is purely by written word ‘sound bites’ and yet not of the character the individuals that you are referencing…
“I’m agnostic,”
And I and those that post will respect your stance in belief, with that said how is that hypocritical?
“However, i would not want my kids to be subject to indoctrination of any religion while at a pubic school”
What indoctrination of religion at a public (pubic?) school. They had a choice to opt-out.
Bottom line is you both have a point but why should an outside organization have ANY say to how YOU or me or any others raise our kids? NOBODY SHOULD ! PERIOD!
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ktowers
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:51pmTERESAJ, I should have worded the tax comment more clearly. The school itself is supported by taxes, and they are taking this trip on school time.
That being said, I agree with you about the Charlie Brown show, the message, and most of all, about being sick of the school system in general. It seems to be geared toward creating good little obedient citizens, and not nurturing the individual gifts of each student. Schools should be helping students think independently and not encouraging group think.
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theotherberean
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 7:00pmI would classify Islam as more of a political ideology than a religion.
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edwest70
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 8:50pmComparing the Great Pumpkin to the god of the bible is a great idea, Puravida! And sure, they can opt out of the discussion.
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JohnnyRaiden
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 10:05pmI would just not let my children go if I didn’t agree with it. It’s that simple.
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theotherberean
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 10:07pmand pumpkin is as pumpkin does.
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Ulysses.
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 11:45pmHahaha! Dad definitely dodged that one. “what ifs don’t count”! Lol! what a joke!
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nzkiwi
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 4:06am@ Ktowers
I think that its wrong to equate Christianity with Islam as they are polar opposites. I don’t think Dadrocked dodged the question, really, as it was a bit unfair. If you used the example of Buddhism, let’s say, it would have been fairer.
Islam is no more a religion than Scientology is, though it presents a much greater threat to civilisation.
In my opinion, to support Islam is to beg for the demise of all whom you know and love, and to jeopardise the future of your children. Therefore the comparison, devil’s advocate or not, is invalid.
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eaglesview
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:12pmMs. Orsi, what is awkward and unacceptable, are you and your “free thinkers” actions.
Why don’t you go off in a corner, and talk amongst yourselves.
You’ll be the only ones that understand your asinine “thinking”.
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ZAP
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:12pm18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
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jasonsmommy
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:10pmGood Grief. If you don’t want to watch it don’t see it or don’t let your kids see it. Heck we do it all the time.
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DadRocked
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:10pmThey’re just not after Christians…They hate everybody…
From daylightatheism.org:
Be Careful What You Wish For (Why I Hate Hate Crimes Legislation, But I Love Hate Speech)
By Sarah Jane Braasch-Joy
In loving memory of my baby brother, Jacob Michael Braasch (01/28/86 – 02/02/10)
I saw a woman in niqab on the UC Berkeley campus the other week. I was shocked. I didn’t approach her. I didn’t speak to her. She was with two other women in hijab, on the opposite side of a wide walkway.
But, I was shocked. And, appalled. Here was a woman (or, at least, I assume she was a woman), in the heart of what is arguably the most politically liberal university campus and city in the US, a fount for civil rights and 60′s hippie culture, engaging in a brazen act of gender segregation and slavery in the egalitarian public space of a secular, liberal, constitutional, democratic republic. I think it is a great shame for a woman living in a secular democracy to perpetuate a barbaric, patriarchal religio-cultural tradition when women are fighting and dying across the globe to be free from gender segregation and slavery.
Enough said about them…
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TJexcite
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:05pmAtheists will be the first line of defense on the coming caliphate. Or they will be the first ones executed in a football field as part of the the pre-game festivities.
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Ulysses.
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 12:31amA comment like that and I can only assume you’re with the Muslim brotherhood, right?
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nzkiwi
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 4:12amThe Islamists have no greater hatred than for atheists, and we will be executed at their earliest convenience.
I am resigned to my fate…
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oceanrcr
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:04pmTo “Those who stand up for the rights of children to be free from COERSION”… How about the “COERSION” of having a captive audience of children, and teaching only evolution. I don’t hear LeeWood the ASsF spokesperson complaining about that.Why not present both creation and evolution as theories and let the uncoerced minds decide. Eternity is a loooooong time LeeWood… You dumb hillbilly.
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edwest70
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 11:05pmCreationism is not a ‘theory’ in scientific terms. It’s a hypothesis, and nothing more.
With creationism, we’d have to “consider” the Earth only being about 10,000 years old.
And that is, my friend, is plain laughable.
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Git-R-Done
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 11:19pmEd – Yet you hatetheists will lie about man made global warming and born this way on homosexuality while claiming them as scientific fact. Don’t pretend that you hatetheists are honest and objective when it comes to science.
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kickagrandma
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 5:59pmLeave us CHRISTIANS alone.
If you atheists are so big on protests, go after the muslimes.
Being of satan, you cannot, can you? he only attacks the fortress, not the wilderness.
atheists are the spiritual wilderness, the lukewarm which JESUS SAYS HE WILL vomit out of HIS mouth.
Think on that for a while. you and the muslimes are on the same team.
Now, that is food for thought — and prayer.
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DadRocked
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:04pm“muslimes” Mispelling… I think not…
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kickagrandma
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:37pmEvening, DAD ~~~ absolutely right on no spelling error.
GOD BLESS.
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Kupo
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 8:04pmI’m sure if the play was being held at a mosque during school hours they would have been. Sorry, but I have to agree with the atheists on this one. If this was something that was happening after school I would see no problem.
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 8:50pmTrust me, I dislike the Muslim religion just as much as yours.
Their nonsense is just as dangerous to accept.
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theotherberean
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 9:01pmYes, Christianity is dangerous. It causes people to fall down on their knees.
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 9:18pm@THEOTHERBEREAN
And start crusades, and burn people at stakes and enslave and torture people.
You forget that Christianity was just as brutal as Islam, they just didn’t have 21st century weaponry to show how peaceful they were.
The only reason Christianity is so tame now is because it’s been dragged kicking and screaming through the centuries and has had to give so much in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence.
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theotherberean
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 9:31pmThat’s people, stupid. Not Christianity.
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Tractorboy
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 9:49pmOh Moderation, there you go with science again, “Your” high priests, “Your” faith, at least my faith you can’t disprove, your guys can’t create life, your guys take any animal they find with opposable thumbs and about the right age and use it to fill in the missing links, the sloppy science they pawn off is almost childish. You want to hang your hat on that science, good luck with that.
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 10:01pm@THEOTHERBEREAN
All I have to judge Christianity by is the people who practice it.
Christianity isn’t some “thing” outside of this world. It’s a viewpoint on the world.
@TractorBoy
Your’e such an idiot, that’s the best way I can describe it. I think in a different thread you asked “if humans came from monkeys, why are there still monkeys” or some nonsense. I suggest you go back to high school and figure out that simple answer.
Also, judging by your standard of proof “at least you can’t disprove mine’ then the Muslims are right, so are the Mormons, so are the Jews, so are the people who believe in Zeus, Thor.
You haven’t proven their religion false, therefore it’s TRUE! right? Oh wait, you see the idiotic nature of that stance right? Oh wait, you don’t?
Seriously, did you graduate high school?
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theotherberean
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 10:09pmHey MOD, that’s your problem. Christianity isn’t about people.
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Tractorboy
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 10:20pmHey friend, little testy aren’t you? It’s fine, I’m married, nothing you say I haven’t heard before…..I didn’t say anything about the other religions, I think those are cults as far as I’m concerned, ~Genesis 1~ God created heaven, and earth, covers it all……Sorry you can’t argue the monkeys, I wouldn’t try either. What does my level of education have to do with anything, a question is a question, perhaps with all your education you can’t think for yourself? That’s what the progressives want you know, they teach you what to think not so much how to think.
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 10:39pm@Tractor
You sir, do a dis-service to your Christian friends. There are smart Christians out there, you are on the bottom rung of their defenders.
Your main defense for your faith was, “….. at least my faith you can’t disprove”
Well, you can’t disprove Muslims, you can’t disprove Jews, or people who believe in Zeus, therefore they are right too! See how that type of argument works?
The reason i care about your education is because I actually care about you and want you to understand basic concepts. I asked if you graduated high school because you learn basic evolution in high school.
Monkeys don’t evolve into humans.
Modern day chimpanzees and modern day humans shared a common ancestor. Can you understand that? It isn’t a monkey of today evolving into a human of today.
There is tons of evidence for evolution, but since you can’t comprehend the core of evolution, I doubt you even looked for any evidence. There are tons of fossils where con census is split on whether it’s the skull of a monkey or the skull of a human.
What evidence is there of a global flood?
What evidence is there Jews wondering the desert for 40 years?
What evidence is there for ANY of the supernatural claims in the Bible?
NONE
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Ulysses.
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 12:42amModeration is actually correct. Christianity has caused millions of deaths, and lots of hate. Hate is all over this board by supposed Christians.
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theotherberean
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 11:04am@MOD
There are tons of evidence to support the Bible.
Evidence for a global flood? Why do all the fossils appear only in the sedimentary layer?
As for arguing that there is no evidence that Jews wandering in the desert, besides being an argument from silence, archaeologists acknowledge that nomads typically don’t leave archaeological remains.
If you have empirical evidence that the theory of evolution accounts for the origin of life, the entire scientific community would love to see it.
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theotherberean
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 11:07am@ULYSSES
Christianity doesn’t kill people, people kill people.
This is the same ignorant liberal lie that blames guns for killing people.
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Tractorboy
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 4:47pm@Moderation, You say—
What evidence is there of a global flood?
What evidence is there Jews wondering the desert for 40 years?
What evidence is there for ANY of the supernatural claims in the Bible?
NONE—–
I say what evidence is there it didn’t happen, our history book says it did happen.BTW can we do this like gentlemen, the insults take away from the debate of ideas, in the Christian world this is the sin of pride,(the insults and name calling) I’ve enjoyed our exchanges in the past, as I hope you did, even though we don’t agee, no reason to be disagreeable.
The OTHERBERREAN, has a point about the fossils, they have been found even on mountain tops, I find them in the bedrock by my house, and I’m hundreds of miles from the seas.
Next point, they have found sandals carved in rocks in the area where the Jews were thought to have wandered the desert, is it absolute proof, No…
Last point, proof of the supernatural, here are a few things man can’t do, but is all around us. I say God created
1-create life
2-create time
3-create space
4-create matter
Things to think about. the evolution thing is still a therory, but scientist are trying to make it fact, in ways I think are sloppy, did you see the Lemur they think is the missing link? Huh.
Anyway God Bless
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on November 28, 2012 at 2:11am@Tractor
No, I”m sorry, I don’t respect outright stupidity and ignorance.
You made a claim that the reason evolution isn’t real is because of lack of proof(even though there is proof).
You then say that your book IS real because……..lack of evidence DISPROVING it.
Your book makes tons of claims, and continually fails to back it up with evidence.
I won’t go anymore into why this is stupid thinking and the reason I insult you is because your outright ignorance is sickening to me and I think you are being intellectually dishonest with me, and yourself because you can’t fathom the possibility of the Bible not being 100% true.
You say evolution isn’t true
You provide no proof for your claim
You then say there is no proof FOR evolution(which there is)
You get the basic theory of evolution wrong to begin with
You then say the Bible is true
You provide no proof for your claim
There is no evidence for you claim, and because there is no evidence you say that it PROVES your claim.
Stop wasting my time with these intellectually deficient and wasteful discussions. Come back to me when you want to discuss things like an adult.
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Polarized America
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 5:58pmi think they should have two showings
1.) Charlie Browns Christmas ..&
2.) a movie of the Big Bang, Dust & Gravity <——— have fun kids
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Polarized America
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:07pmooooops.. i should have added
and let the “” Elementary Kids ” decide
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Arkansan by Choice
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 5:56pmFree Thinkers? More like Non Thinkers
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DadRocked
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:23pmHey ArkansasByChoice – this time it happened on your coast…
I know that this isnt’t typical down there… What happened, somebody sneak into the state?
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red_white_blue2
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 5:55pmAnother example of stupid atheists..and yes, they are stupid-not because they are atheists, but because they can’t seem to grasp 2 + 2 = 4. They can’t grasp the what that phrase of church and state means. I’m sure it’s been explained to them before, but because it doesn’t help their agenda, they ignore it. Stop me when I hit the part that isn’t true…Please! LOL LMAO
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Kupo
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 8:12pmSo you would have been okay with the kids being taken to a Ramadan play at the local mosque during school hours?
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Ulysses.
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 12:52am@red okay smartass, then what’s this letter from George Washington to the leaders of the church saying they are purposefully not placing god in the constitution and that God and religion have no business in government, period. You’re an idiot. Go read the federalist papers and change your tag name. I find it offensive that so many died starting this country so they could live completely free of any religion, and you want to try and put it back in. You’re a disgusting person who knows nothing of American history.
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newwell
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 5:55pmI remember once being asked why I insisted that my children attend church, and that it should be the child’s choice whether to believe in God or not. I proceeded to ask them, “How can my child make an informed choice if never presented with information about the LORD? They needed to hear both sides, not just the one of atheists.” That shut them up quickly. Hee-hee :)
If someone doesn’t want their child to attend then excuse the child from school. Why should anyone IMPOSE their beliefs on me? Apparently this person has too much time on their hands & just wants to cause problems. Very SELFISH of them.
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DadRocked
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:03pm“Very SELFISH of them”
You are kind and selective of your choice of words.
I on the other hand…
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 8:40pmYou said “They need to hear both sides of the argument.”
What atheists did you have in your life telling them that God doesn’t exist?
There is a difference between not exposing kids to religion and continually indoctrinating them by saying that God does/doesn’t exist.
Not talking about religion isn’t one side of the argument.
In your case, you would have to have someone telling your kids ,”God doesn’t exist” for then it be legitimate to hear the other side of the argument that “God does exist.”
Therefore, I’m going with the conclusion that you’re being disingenuous with your stance and took your kids to church because you want them to grow up in your religion.
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theotherberean
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 9:34pmIf you really believe that kids are NOT being told that God does not exist, you are an idiot.
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 9:44pm@THEOTHERBEREAN
And you are a conspiracy theorists.
I went to public school from preschool on and never once did I have a teacher tell me “oh and God doesn’t exist.”
Why do you choose to live in a delusional world where supposedly everyone is against you?
Come back to reality, things aren’t as bad as you think.
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theotherberean
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 10:01pmYeah, well maybe someday I’ll be as smart as you, MOD. If you were in public school any time after 1962, it was against the law for a teacher to use the word God.
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 10:25pm@THEOTHERBEREAN
And that’s for a reason!
It’s not because they hate God(I would argue I can’t hate something I don’t think exists).
You are perfectly fine with teachers talking about your version of God and exposing all other kids to your version of God.
What if your kid came home and said, “My teacher told me that Allah cares about our environment and that we should take care of it.”
I’m sure you’d be okay with that right?
The only way we can have true religious freedom is to keep it out of the public arena.
If you want to worship or home school your kids that nonsense, fine. I think you’re hampering their growth by teaching them to accept fairytales but whatever. We can’t have State subsidized teaching/prayer for ANY religion.
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Charley-O
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 10:59pmWow. The ignorance and hatred in these posts is refreshing in this age or Political Correctness and Anti-Hate Speech! First, the person who very poorly chose the handle, ModerationIsBest (HA!): Anytime a teacher pushes evolution theory without giving equal time to creation theory s/he is pushing anti-God messages. Christian children are taught that God created everything, then the tax-payer supported public school system says their parents and religious teachers are wrong. That’s bias and a blatant disregard to the Establishment Clause since it allows the government-supported school system to mingle in the religious teachings of private families.
And to the originating whiners who are trying to control all the children at school instead of just their own – suck it up. Our kids have to listen to political and economic theory that we don’t encourage them to believe in, so it’s just balanced that your children should have to learn that millions of fellow earthlings believe the Christmas story. Take in the information, filter it, discuss it with your parents if you wish, create a mental note about it and move on. Just don’t listen to anyone who tells you everyone else is wrong – including your stupid, knuckle-dragging, infidel (untrustworthy) atheistic parents.
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Locked
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 11:11pm@Theotherbean
“If you were in public school any time after 1962, it was against the law for a teacher to use the word God.”
If that’s true (and it certainly isn’t; a couple decades back I recall my 9th grade English class reading and analyzing several biblical stories) then it would be impossible for a teacher to say, as you posited: “kids are being told that God does not exist” right?
There are atheist parents as vehemently close-minded as Christian fundamentalist parents. Doesn’t mean God isn’t all around us, and that kids don’t pick up on that!
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 11:14pm@CHARLEY-O
Wow, I don’t know where to begin.
Equal time to Creation theory?
There is no equal time to “God did it”
Again, do you want equal time for all creation “theory”?
What if the Muslims have a different view of how humans came to be?
What about buddhists?
What about people who believe in Zeus?
Science deals with the real world, and with evidence.
As a Christian from the creation museum said, “if an experiment, on the surface seems to contradict with the word of God, we go with the word of God.”
So essentially, you’re going to keep ignoring evidence and go with you dogma, until the evidence is completely overwhelming and then you’ll accept the new evidence…..and still say that God did it.
I’m sorry but that’s just not science.
Creation stands on the shoulders of real science and then fits science in line with their unholy books.
I’m sorry but you just don’t know what you’re talking about.
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edwest70
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 11:24pmO-Charlie- So if a science teacher shares anything that contradicts the bible, you have a problem with that? Maybe you should homeschool if you want junior to still believe that the sun rotates around the earth, that people get sick because of evil spirits, and that the Earth is only about 10,000 years old.
Teach your kids to think critically and it’ll all work out. They’ll most likely move out even earlier than you wish, too. :)
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nzkiwi
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 4:28am@ Charley
You are dead right! There is no political correctness here. And we just love it that way.
Soon you will love it, too – but I warn you, it can become addictive.
Welcome to the Blaze, by the way.
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theotherberean
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 11:18am@LOCKED,
Well, I’m not sure how they got away with it because the U. S. Supreme Court issued two bans, one in 1962 and the second in 1963. Both were the result of lawsuits against teaching religion and religious practices in public schools. Basically stating (and ignorantly so) that organized prayer in schools was a violation of the separation of church and state. It was decided that publicly funded schools were an extension of the state, and that organized prayer or bible readings were a form of proselytizing. The bans not only banned mandatory prayer in schools but also the daily reading of bible passages.
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HKS
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 5:51pmLife is tough, get over it. You don’t always get your way.
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theotherberean
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 10:13pmNow you’ve done it. Do you realize how many liberals/progressives will cry all night long on their pillows because you’ve said this?
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truthbased
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 5:49pmA parents responsibly and say ends at another parents child. You can be concerned all you want but if they don’t want to hear it then shut it.
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truthbased
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 5:46pmA parents concern ends at another parents child. Worry about you own and don’t take from the rest.
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Berbel73
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:14pmThat is exactly right. When I was in grade school and there was an excursion or field trip outside of school I had to get a permission slip sign by my parents giving their permission in order for me to attend/participate. If there are parents who object then they have the right to say they do not want their child involved, however they do not have the right to dictate to others what their children can do. Using the excuse of ridicule in order to remain anonymous is nothing less than cowardice. Oh and by the way there is no such thing as freedom from religion or the supposed separation of church and state. It is a progressive lie intended to separate people from GOD in order to promote their secular agenda. The first amendment clearly states that, “Congress shall pass no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”.
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For my Liberty!
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 5:39pmHmmmm…….I wonder WHY these same people were not raising H3LL when school children were taken to a Mosque DURING prayers????? Something stinks to me….SICK of Islam being exempt, when THAT religion is one of evil.
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 5:57pmYou mean a religion that says all human beings are born worthy of an eternal torture and need to accept a human sacrifice ISN’T evil?
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kickagrandma
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:06pm@ MODERATION~~~whaaat? That statement/question was as transparent as the current administration.
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:15pm@KICKAGRANDMA
Don’t try to act like what I said ISN’T what Christianity is based around.
Like it or not, Christianity is a cult of human sacrifice.
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Berbel73
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 7:07pmModerationisbest your ignorance is absolutely astounding! It’s obvious that your understanding and knowledge of Christianity is non-existant, however your hatred of it is on full display whether you like it or not!
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DadRocked
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 7:34pmModerationIsBest – “Like it or not, Christianity is a cult…”
Merriam Webster: noun, often attributive \ˈkəlt\
formal religious veneration : worship – a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also: its body of adherents.
OK, I concede… I belong to a cult!
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 7:44pm@BERBEL73
You said nothing to argue my claim, just said that “You don’t understand.”
The problem is that I do understand and I am just explaining your religion without the rose colored glasses that you look at it with.
Face it, you accept the horrendous notion that a human sacrifice was necessary in order to keep people from an eternal torture that your so called “loving” God determined at birth that we are worthy of.
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theotherberean
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 8:48pmAnother liberal, angry at God. Poor fella. Mommy not around to change your diaper?
Didn’t you hear? Salvation is a FREE GIFT!
That should send you running for yours. ha ha
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 8:59pm@THEOTHERBEREAN
Salvation….from what?
A system that your supposed “loving” God created?
A system, where human beings are born worthy of an eternal torture, and then have to accept that a human sacrifice was necessary on their behalf to avoid said torture?
It’s pure nonsense and it’s certainly not “moral.”
No thanks, you go ahead and keep on accepting human sacrifices. Disgusting.
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theotherberean
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 9:37pmIf you can’t see that evil exists, that’s your problem. Don’t chastise me because you’re too stupid to recognize it.
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 9:42pm@THEOTHERBEREAN
What does evil have to do with any of this?
This is supposedly your all loving God.
He’s all powerful and all knowing right?
Plus, since he’s the creator of everything he therefore set the rules that said a human sacrifice was necessary. There is no law that I know if that says blood has to be shed, like I said, he makes all the rules.
He could have just issued a decree, all sins are forgiven but no, he is the one who supposedly decided that a human sacrifice was necessary.
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theotherberean
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 10:05pmLook, you’re just revealing your ignorance.
Bone up here and then we might have something to talk about… http://www.gotquestions.org/history-Christianity.html
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 10:20pm@THEOTHERBEREAN
Why would I care about the history of your myth?
Plus, are you so weak in your understanding of Christianity that you have to point me to some website?
The fact is, I described you religion to a T, you just don’t like the conclusion that I have come up with.
Your God, created a system, KNOWING that human beings would fail.
How does your God deal with this? He makes a human sacrifice NECESSARY to forgive things he knows we will already do.
Again your God is all powerful. He makes the rules for everything. He could have easily chosen some other route to supposedly “wash away our sins.”
Your God shows throughout the Old Testament how much he loves bloodshed, and the smell of blood and burnt offerings, but in the NT he one ups himself and demands the bloodshed of his supposed “son” (who is also somehow himself)
It’s utter nonsense to accept any of this.
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Ulysses.
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 2:00amModeration is owning all you with facts. All everyone else can do is sit there and say he’s stupid or doesn’t understand. He seems to know more about your religion than you all do. Damn, no wonder christanty is on the way out and atheism is on the rise. People here seem to think just cause they declare they’re right loudly enough with ZERO FACTS, that everyone will say, okay… You must be right. Face it Christians, you’re a dying breed. Your children will learn they were taught wrongly by you and will lose respect for you in the future. I see it all the time in the military… Less and less kids coming in that are religious. It’s great to see too! I love it!
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theotherberean
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 11:33am@MOD
There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
Revel in your ignorance if you choose. I pointed you to reasonable answers, but you’re not looking for reasonable answers. You have what they call small peni$ syndrome.
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theotherberean
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 11:37amActually, you both are delusional,. @MOD didn’t post any facts, nor will he accept anyone’s, dismissing them as myth without even looking.
A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.
Typical intolerant bigots.
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 10:11pm@THEOTHERBEREAN
You’re the ignorant one making claims about me without knowing anything.
I have looked at Christianity, very in depth.
I attended an Evangelical church on and off for 3 years. All of my close friends are Christians.
Fact is, I know very well what your religion revolves around.
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DadRocked
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 5:38pmHow I would love to go toe to toe with these guys… And a disclaimer note to go to, “This production does expose your child to Christianity through some of the songs and scenes.” The original religion of peace.
Excuse my Lord, I find myself having trouble turning the other cheek. It’s time for some real fellowship… Please hear my prayers…
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Pantloadian
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:04pmDAD, this is God. I hear you, son. Of course I use “son” rhetorically, you know, since I had only one begotten son. Can I be honest? I’ve had many more sons. And daughters! But you Christians like to think Jesus is the one and only, the big cheese. That’s fine. We’ll go with that if it makes you feel better.
Look, the point is this – don’t beseech me for deliverance from your nature. I gave everybody a role to play, and yours is “impatient, intolerant one with latent violence issues” guy. It’s a noble life, and you’re in good company. In fact, you’re part of nearly half of all humanity. You see I made two basic types of people – you’re either a wonderful example or a horrible warning. You and allllllllllll the people like you are the warnings. And if I haven’t said so already, I want to thank you for doing such a good job of that.
So don’t waste another minute acting like you’re somebody you’re not. Embrace your true self, you listing paragon of conflict. Go out there and get your crazy on. And God love ya, big fella.
DadRocked
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 7:47pmYou will not have the last word you moroon.
Now it’s your turn to get to the back of the bus…
Hurry now little one, the bus is getting full and is ready to leave the station.
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theotherberean
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 10:18pmNever argue with a fool. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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edwest70
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 12:50amDad, you’re just an angry typist. Cut the act, little fella. :)
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DadRocked
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 9:45amWest – Been peeking over the stalls again?
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tothepoint
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 5:31pmAtheism meets the criteria of a religion.
It’s a godless religion but a religion nontheless.
Now, they fight this truth for many reasons but it is the truth.
Religious atheists must learn to be tolerant of other religions.
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:10pmPlease tell me how it meets the criteria of a religion.
Atheists don’t come together each week in a specific location.
Atheists don’t have any rituals that they perform.
Atheists don’t have one specific book that they always fall back on.
Atheists don’t worship anything or anybody.
Atheists rely on evidence and are open to changing their mind if evidence is overwhelmingly against them.
All of this applies to religion, none of it applies to atheism.
So please, think before you post.
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DZ-015
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:44pmTothepoint: You obviously touched a nerve with your post because it was as your avatar states. Atheists cannot prove the nonexistence of God, yet they continue to proclaim it. This makes their belief a matter of faith, which is the basis of any religion. Indeed, this is the reason atheists insist on having holiday displays on public property in competition with other religions. They also seek to gain converts to their way of thinking.
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 6:49pm@DZ-015
Atheists claim that no reasonable proof has been given to think that a God exists.
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flipper1073
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 7:10pmOK, Moderation
Atheism may not be a Religion
But it is Definitely a Cult.
Why Can’t Atheist Live an Let Live ?
You don’t want to watch Charlie Brown Christmas
or let your Children watch it Don’t
I Could CARE LESS.
But Why Tell Everyone Else that they Can’t See It ?
That’s the Point Christian’s are Making.
We Won’t tell you what to Believe
You Don’t Tell US what not to Believe.
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theotherberean
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 7:12pmChristians believe God is. Atheists believe God is not. Why is one a religion and the other not?
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TheGrtDcptn
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 7:17pm‘Atheists don’t come together each week in a specific location’
Seems you overlook that which is not convenient…
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/odd-tulsa-preacher-launches-weekly-church-service-for-atheists-humanists-secularists/
or…
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/25/atheists-temple_n_1231848.html
and make sure to check out this next link…!!
http://firstchurchofatheism.com/
You best silence these people…or YOU may be looking at a counter lawsuit…
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 7:41pm@THEOTHERBEREAN
Atheism isn’t a “belief”
When you come to me and say “God exists” I merely say, “the evidence you have provided for God is insufficient for me to accept your premise.”
I am not saying that a God doesn’t exist, I’m merely saying that there is no reason or evidence for me to think that a God exists.
YOU are the one who is affirming that a God exists, therefore it is for you to prove it.
If you are a prosecuting attorney, it is your job to prove that the defendant committed the crime. It is NOT on the defense attorney to prove that his client didn’t commit the crime.
I as an atheist am on the jury, saying I am not buying your evidence for the existence of a God.
You will of course meet atheists who say they KNOW that a God doesn’t exist, but I think they’re just as disingenuous as the religious who say they KNOW that a God does exist.
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 8:20pm@FLIPPER1073
How is Atheism a cult?
Again, atheism isn’t based around an unorthodox view of the world
Atheism doesn’t have any weird rituals
Atheists hardly come together on a weekly basis.
There is no one leader, or preacher or anything that we all gather to listen to
I would be more than happy to live and let live.
It is the religious, particularly the Christians in this country, who don’t shut up about their religion that bring this stuff on.
I don’t get evangelized by Jews in this country, or Muslims. They leave me alone.
It’s only the Christians who CONTINUALLY profess their faith to me, and have to talk to me about it and try to get me to follow along in their nonsense.
I had a friend in college who was Jewish and he never talked to me about the Bible. I constantly hear Christians try to relate their daily life events, to things that happened in the Bible.
Again, it’s not good enough for Christians to put up religious displays on their own personal property. No, they have to go and put it on public property as well and then cry PERSECUTION when they can’t do whatever they want.
I never go up to someone and just start talking about me being an atheist. I don’t go and recommend books by atheists to people I don’t know. I don’t say people are going to suffer eternally for not being an atheist.
If you stopped talking about your faith so much, I wouldn’t be so annoyed by it when you do.
Enough already, I know you love J
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sawbuck
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 8:23pmJohn 20:29
Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
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flipper1073
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 8:43pmI Don’t Push my Religion on Anyone.
The only one’s I know that do that are
Jehova Witness.
You Don’t believe Fine !
It’s the Atheist War on Christmas
That ****** Off Christians.
Jehova Witness’s don’t celebrate Christmas Either
Weird Huh ?
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theotherberean
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 8:57pm@MOD
By your explanation of your “beliefs” (or lack thereof, whichever applies) you are an agnostic, not an atheist.
And your argument is a bit of a straw man because I never claimed to “know” that God exists, neither has any other Christian who has “faith.” However, as with any reality, there comes a time when the evidence reveals that which cannot be seen with the eye. If science can claim that evolution is a fact, sans empirical evidence, then it is hypocritical to chastise Christians for believing in God simply because there is no empirical evidence.
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 9:06pm@FLIPPER1073
Any “war on Christmas” that exists is in the minds of Christians and things that they brought on themselves.
As an Atheist, if someone wishes me Merry Christmas I don’t care. If they wished me Happy Holidays, I don’t care. If they wished me anything else, I wouldn’t care. I would likely just say, “you too”
BUT, let a store decide to wish all people a Happy Holidays and you get “OMG WAR ON CHRISTMAS, THIS IS A CHRISTIAN NATION, BLAH BLAH BLAH. BOYCOTT!”
You want to put up a nativity scene on your private property or your church property? Fine, that’s cool, they look nice sometimes. I wouldn’t care if every single house on my block put up one. But don’t put them on up public property. You can have your holiday, just stop trying to push it on everyone else and stop being offended when everyone doesn’t want to subjected to your religious displays. I thought faith was supposed to be a personal manner, yet it’s mainly the different sects of Christianity that evangelize.
I can’t turn on TV without hearing some Christian talk about Jesus.
I can’t hear a political speech without hearing “God Bless this, God bless that.”
You had your chance to peacefully practice your religion, then they put people into power and voted on stuff like making “Under God” part of the pledge and “In God We Trust” our motto. Religion has proven time and again that the are unable to separate their religious views, with how they govern.
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 9:15pm@THEOTHERBEREAN
False, agnostics clearly state, “I don’t know either way.”
Atheists say that they haven’t seen evidence sufficient to say that a God exists. Therefore, since evidence is lacking, I have to say that I don’t think a God exists.
You see it’s not a straw man because you, unlike a lot of people on here, are actually honest and classify your religion as “faith.” I have had many discussions with Christians on here who say they KNOW that a God exists. I have a friend who said that his version of Christianity is “both fact based and faith based.”
Evolution has evidence, it has plenty of evidence to say that it’s what likely happened
Evolution is also potentially falsifiable. If overwhelming evidence came along and completely debunked evolution, i would no longer think of it is an acceptable way to discern how current day humans came to be.
Therefore, it isn’t “faith.” I am open to evidence, argument and admitting if I get proven wrong.
Most religion says they know they are right because “The Bible is infallible” and that nothing would change their mind. They don’t need evidence, because as you said, “it’s faith.”
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theotherberean
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 9:42pm@MOD, ok so you’ve sort of redeemed yourself, and thank you for being intellectually honest.
But I still disagree that it cannot be said that your lack of belief in God is not a belief in itself.
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 9:54pm@THEOTHERBEREAN
Again, I am rejecting your claims that a God exists.
Therefore, it’s not a “belief.” I’m relying on evidence, or lack thereof.
Let me ask you
Do you BELIEVE that 2+2=4? No, belief is irrelevant. Belief is irrelevant in everything you do.
I don’t know why you’d say “you believe” in God unless you are accepting it on a lack of evidence.
A reasonable stance would be, “based on the evidence provided, I think God exists.”
I think belief is a handicapped that is basically saying, “I know I shouldn’t accept your premise, but I do anyways.”
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theotherberean
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 11:00pmSaying you do not employ “belief,” because you are merely relying on a lack of evidence to support your position, is dodging the reality that you have made a choice, to believe one way or the other.
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 11:09pm@THEOTHERBEREAN
Re-read what I wrote.
Look at the keyboard you’re typing on.
Do you “believe” that keyboard exists?
No, you don’t.
The problem is that you view everything in the realm of “belief” or “non belief.”
That’s a false paradigm.
If you have evidence for something, then you don’t need to “believe” or “have a belief” in it.
Instead of saying “you believe in God” you should say “I have evidence to think that God exists.”
Stop believing, start thinking.
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Git-R-Done
Posted on November 25, 2012 at 11:21pmModeration – And you hatetheists don’t believe in anything and are thoughtful when it comes to everything? LOL
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louise
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 6:05amSeeing is believing….not what someone else trots out as “evidence”. Until you have new eyes to see with, and new ears to hear with, you are blind and deaf to the Truth of God.
Truth is not Truth unless God gives it. When that happens to you, you will see and hear and know.
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 10:24am@LOUISE
I’ve heard that before. It was stupid when I heard it the first time and it’s stupid now.
You basically said, “when you become as deluded as I am, you will see!”
Um, no thanks.
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theotherberean
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 11:50amWorld English Dictionary
believe (bɪˈliːv)
— vb (foll by in )
1. ( tr; may take a clause as object ) to accept (a statement, supposition, or opinion) as true: I believe God exists
World English Dictionary
belief (bɪˈliːf)
— n
1. a principle, proposition, idea, etc, accepted as true
World English Dictionary
faith (feɪθ)
— n
1. strong or unshakeable belief in something, esp without proof or evidence
Atheists exhibit all three.
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theotherberean
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 11:54am@MOD, of course you don’t see it.
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor 1:18
But thanks for stepping up to fulfill Biblical prophecy for us, that not all will be saved, by taking your chosen place in the lake of fire for eternity. You’re the man!
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The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 4:21pmWhat do atheists believe in, anyway? I so wish they had a doctrine of tenets somewhere. They seem tight-lipped about what they truly believe. I wonder if they don’t want that to be known?
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louise
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 5:25pmHere is an early Christmas gift to everyone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?feature=player_embedded&v=nj2ofrX7jAk
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on November 26, 2012 at 10:10pm@THEOTHERBEREAN
Of course a book written by fools who accept fairy tales will say that people who don’t accept fairy tales are fools.
Thankfully, I don’t care what fools from 2000 years say.
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