Penn Jillette Weighs in on ‘The War on Christmas’
Penn Jillette will appear on The Glenn Beck Program on TheBlaze TV on Thursday, Dec. 6.
We’re well into the ‘War on Christmas’ season. Over the past week, Fox News host Bill O’Reilly has debated the War on Christmas issue with Atheists for America President David Silverman as well as Rhode Island Gov. Lincoln Chafee, leading to attacks from MSNBC’s Lawrence O’Donnell against O’Reilly and CBN host Pat Robertson for their comments on the political correctness debate that comes up every year at this time.
Even a Little Rock, Arkansas, elementary school made headlines after local atheists expressed outrage at teachers for suggesting to take first and second-grade students to see “A Charlie Brown Christmas” at a local Church. Arkansas Atheists believe the play includes religious themes, and the trip would blur the line between church and state.
While many commentators in the “War on Christmas” debate often have the tendency to engage in political hyperbole, some may find magician and outspoken atheist Penn Jillette’s recent comments on the issue refreshing. In a video published Friday by big think, Jillette gives his take on why he doesn’t believe there is an attack on Christmas, and that calls to say things like “happy holidays” are not an attempt to belittle Christians.
“If you’re talking about sending out Christmas cards or your setting up something on a town square, why do you want to leave people out?” Jillette says in the video “Why is it considered an attack to say ‘holidays,’ to say ‘seasonal?’ I mean, don’t you want other people to join you in joy? Why are you excluding other people? ”
At the same time, Jillette is very supportive of Christians’ right to speech.
“I certainly don’t think there should be anything legal stopping people from saying all the Christmas stuff they want,” Jillette goes on to say. “I am more in favor of freedom of religion than anyone I’ve ever met.
“I think you should have all the prayer meetings you want all the time with any religion you have. I’d rather you didn’t do it on my dime.”
In CONTROL, Glenn Beck presents a passionate, fact-based case for guns that reveals why gun control isn’t really about controlling guns at all; it’s about controlling us. Find out more HERE.
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Comments (470)
JACKTHETOAD
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 3:03amI was lucky enough to see Penn & Teller twice. The first time was in ’90 in my hometown. I found them very entertaining…gifted ‘magically’, entertaining and informative with a decidedly dark, twisted streak (especially Teller, aka. ‘the little skulker’). They both came out and hung at intermission. I’d say Penn is around 6’7″ or so. He was head-and-shoulders above the crowd, and an affable guy. ‘Teller’ actually speaks! (He hosted an A&E special on magic a few years ago, albeit mostly narration. His name WAS Raymond Joseph Teller…he had it legally changed to just Teller, and possesses a single-name passport.) The second time was in Vegas at the Rio, where they were the house act. Same thing at intermission too. I think they’re both good guys who’ve worked hard at their craft and it shows. Penn’s athiestic views are his alone, and I don’t think he ever pushes them on anyone. He always raises valid points in a humorous way. I don’t think he’s right about God, though. He may have to answer for it someday, but I don’t think so, as God loves a good laugh too. After all, He made us. (If you get a chance, go see them. Their two movies are good too, imo.)
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wayner4162
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 8:28amWhat was once the United States of America is now gone. People are walking around in a wannabe dream thinking that this is not so, but reality says it is. What once was America is now a land of evil and getting more so by the minute, but then when a people shake their fist if the face of GOD what else??
Open hatred of JESUS CHRIST the savior of the world
The break up of the Christian Family, Man Women and Children
Women who have nothing but contempt for Women who want to be Wife’s and Mothers and home makers!! This is a very large part of what is wrong with this nation, women who don’t know what women are supposed to do!, it is confusion on their part, they need to really think about what they have done to to play a major role in the destroying what was the US, and what once was the definition of the Christian family.
Legal Homosexual behavior by men and women alike
Legal murder of unborn and partially born innocent babies
Revile of Good
Praise of evil
Government forcing regulations by the hundreds which actually take away FREEDOM
Those who go to work and earn in the pursuit of happiness now have to turn over half of what they earn to the Government, to give it to the lazy and the takers, to appease them and BUY THEIR VOTE
An educational system that propagates extreme hatred towards all things CHRISTIAN
Re writing history to lie and distort the truth of who really built America
It was those who had dreams, freedom and a WORK ethic, they
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Ballot_Box_Revolution
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 9:22amI respect what Penn said here, although I don’t think he speaks for all atheists, this is his individual opinion. The activist atheists (the ones who are molding their image) are very anti-religious. They are like the extremist Muslims, who have molded the image of Islam, and the problem is the non-extreme individuals do not speak out against the bad ones because they are still of the same kind.
The KKK tried to mold the image of white people, and smart white people stood up to that and said “No that is not who we all are.” And think about it, it is the only extreme special interest group that has failed, and become a joke.
We have to stop this collectivist frame of mind “They are my people, so I have to have their back”
Penn did not speak out against the extreme atheists, he pretty much ignored them and pretended they did not exist. I respect him, and his words as an individual but he does represent the majority (or the image molders) of atheists.
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krednjen
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 9:23amIf I am pushed out of the way of an oncoming train, by a man with a message who owes me nothing, and this man dies, I am likely to throw a birthday party for him each year, and loudly proclaim his name and message. Christians believe that separation from God (called hell), is the train, love is the message, and have felt the warmth of his hands the moment he pushed them to safety on that cold night. When someone comes to the party and says, it didn’t happen, and I would rather not even say his name, the pain you feel is visceral. To respond to this person with anything other than love, is contrary to the messenger, unless that person starts actively trying to dilute the message with false kindness, or tries to convince others that the door to the love party is not open to them. Let those people start their own party on any day they like. Might even be a fun party…… till the train comes.
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Favored93
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 9:27am@jinkaz2256
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 7:55am
This is NOT your personal advertizing site! Go peddle your snake oil some were else!
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jblaze
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 9:29amJink go peddle your BS elseware!
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Pontiaku
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 11:46amwayner4162
[Open hatred of JESUS CHRIST the savior of the world]
See this is why we can’t have reasonable discussions with Christians in the room.
1st, He’s not hated, you are. We’re all pretty sick of you holier than thou holy rollers.
2nd, that’s just it, he’s not the “savior of the world”. He died in one location with this news completely isolated from “the world” for CENTURIES. Generations of people around the world died not knowing a thing about Jesus or the jewish religion for that matter. And still do. It’s like your god chose to have a human sacrifice to himself to save ourselves from himself without including all the people in the world in on this meal train. If you don’t see how absurd this is, you’re mental.
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paultard
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 11:57amI’m libertarian and agree with Penn 100%! The holiday season is what it is. Christmas to many, the winter solstice to many..If you want to get technical, Jesus is one of MANY “SUN” Gods all with similar stories. look it up.. There is NOTHING wrong with including everyone in the season. My Jewish friend had her Christmas tree up and all her decorations..WHY? Because she said “Christmas brings out the best in people” What I can’t understand is why Christians ( and Blazers) have this exclusive club you MUST belong to and everyone is forced to acknowledge whether they believe the story of Christ or not. You must comply with Christian beliefs or your sub-human.. Penn has a VERY valid point. It wasn’t always Christmas it was the “winter solstice” for thousands of years prior. For a primer : http://youtu.be/oZgT1SRcrKE Be sure to download the source book on the same page..
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longknifed
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:05pmPenn is a great magician because he fooled the all-seeing blind prophet Glenn Beck into thinking he was a libertarian.
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10-32inIdaho
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:35pmFunny how both sides are wrong in my opinion. Athiests say don’t force your view on me = take Christ out of Christmas. Christians see Christ as the reason for the celebration of peace and good will to all = Christ is Christmas. The response from the extremes on both sides is not ok for either. How about loving our fellow man and respecting their views ie. Penn Happy Holidays and Glenn Beck Merry Christmas. Wishing them well based on their belief not imposing mine because I respect both for living a good life based on what they feel is right. Think we know it as the golden rule, treat others as you want to be treated.
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roagie1
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:54pmI wouldn’t walk across the street to see him if he was handin out hundred dollar bills.
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The_Jerk
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 1:15pmLet’s take the foolish argument out to the very end. Using this commie pimp’s reasoning, let’s be inclusive. Let’s stop pledging an allegiance to America. Let’s be inclusive and pledge our allegiance to the world. Tolerance and inclusiveness are concepts created to deceive. This fat magician is very astute at presenting the deception. It’s his art.
valiant1776
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 1:44pmPenn is wrong. It’s the radical leftists that want to force everyone, the public, to say “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas”. The agenda of the left is not to include others, but to destroy biblical Christianity. The only ones who are closing people out are liberals in Government and business that want to prohibit Christians from saying Merry Christmas. Penn has it backwards. It’s not us Conservative Christians that want people to say Merry Christmas, but us Conservative Christians that are fighting the left which is demanding that we Christians don’t say Merry Christmas.
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Rail
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 1:58pmWow 6’7″….that is amazing!…. I didnt know they could stack **** that high!
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Lucy Larue
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 2:10pmWhy were you lucky? And WHY does that even deserve mention on this thread?
This is about an ATHEIST!…,Jillette.
Yes…,he has his SCHTICK with Teller. He has done very well for himself.
He has used the greatest nation the world has ever known to use his First Amendment rights to ask….,Why do Christians want to deny Non Christians JOY?
REALLY?!
He is a STATIST. He is a MORAL RELATIVIST.
He sucks up the largesse of this nation but has no concept OF this nation.
He professes to be an Atheist yet deals in MAGIC?
I venture to say that he probably reveres one of the biggest A&;”HOLES the world has ever come to know….,CHARLES DARWIN!
And no…,I am not a “CREATIONIST”. I am just saying that I think Darwin was a narrow minded idiot..
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Max jones
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 2:55pmKREDGNEN……Excellent….your post went in the archives….love it.
PONTIAKU…You know absolutely nothing about the scriptures….Are you an intelligent man or a ‘bot’ with only pre-conceived ideas? That’s your quandry, isn’t it? Never really looked into it, in any depth, and reject it out of hand……sounds like a bot, NO?
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Berbel73
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 3:09pmThis whole premise of the separation of church and state is a false one. There is no such thing as freedom from religion. It is the progressive false reinterpretation of the first amendment in order for them to advance their secular agenda. If the founders had wanted the so called separation of church and state then they would have specifically said so, but they did not. The first amendment clearly states, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”. Their intent with this acknowledgement is abundantly clear, and it is to protect the freedom of religion of the people by the government. Any other interpretation is simply false.
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Max jones
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 3:28pmJERK…..right you are..This entire charade is obvious to the astute. But, these are the tactics that have been used for centuries.
Certain people get “advanced” mental acuity through drugs, transendental meditation,:”magic”, or any of dozens of esoteric practices, and become, in their own eyes,”evolved”. This state of consciousness is a trap, or stumbling stone on the path to self realization. It is ego driven and sustained by narcissism. Is blind to the subtle truth contained in scripture and prophecy. This the mark of the beast, in the open, for all to easily see. For those that have eyes.
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Max jones
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 3:35pmBERBEL….You know it. I know it and so do a lot of others. but there is an agenda that must be blindly followed, so, we got what we got, in this argument. Its all good. The truth always comes out….believe it!
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cessna152
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 3:36pmWell Mr Gillette lets remember what this season is about. Hey if you want to get technical Christmas was the first holiday this time of year. So now you’re spreading the wealth for holidays as well? I’m offended that you’re offended. You want mutual respect then show respect.
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SickOfSociety
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 3:45pmIf atheists want to start changing Christian holidays, they can start their own stupid holiday. Stay out of mine.
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Pontiaku
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 4:15pmcessna152
[Hey if you want to get technical Christmas was the first holiday this time of year.]
Astonishingly false. The Roman celebration of Saturnalia was adopted by the Catholic Church to create ChristMASS. Prior to that it was the pagan festival called Saturna.
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Pontiaku
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 4:17pmSickOfSociety, likewise you can spend your own money on decorations and stop using government to spend mine.
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paultard
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 4:30pmFormer Anglican priest Tom Harpur, is the author of “The Pagan Christ”. Harpur believes there is not enough evidence to prove Jesus existed. He also believes that the New Testament is rooted in Egyptian mythology, and that stories about a Jesus-like figure have been told for hundreds of years. As an example, he cites the miracle of the raising of Lazarus and maintains there is an almost identical story which had been written in Egyptian guise, seventeen centuries earlier. He also maintains that any proof of a link between pagan roots and the Christian gospels was deliberately destroyed by the Christian church. http://youtu.be/IqlSuvAAjkM
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glassaudioguy
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 4:36pm@ the Paulbot- those many so-called sun-gods you referred to didn’t have those parallels to Christ until sometime in the mid to late second century, meaning the pagans and gnostics stole from the Christians, not the other way around. BTW, if anyone wants to get real technical, it’s likely Jesus was born in the spring, meaning Christmas (as the actual birth of Christ) and Easter would be almost on top of each other. It’s now believed that it was on or about Dec. 25 that the three wise men found Him, who was by then living in a house. http://www.bethlehemstar.org
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TheCalmOne
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 4:37pmWAYNER4162: Sounds like you are jonesing to live in a theocracy. Iran might take you in, or you could try Saudi Arabia. Oh, and I hear atheism is prohibited in Malaysia.
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justwow
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 5:44pmThe argument I hear from the atheists is that they feel as though they are being pressured to believe something they don’t. In response, they scream loudly that those that believe should not, and to have any public display of belief should not be allowed. Isn’t that exactly the opposite side of the same coin they are complaining about ( i.e. – you aren’t allowed to believe what you believe, you have to believe what I believe!) ? If my Christmas tree or decorations make you have that large of an emotional reaction, I’m thinking you have issues within yourself that you need to work out. Please, leave me and my Christmas tree out of your issues.
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PATTY HENRY
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 6:53pmPENN is going to be one surprised Dude in the time coming for him, isn’t he? I hope he has a chance to repent and accept GOD’S love for him and GOD’S salvation via Jesus Christ.
PS: Darwin never was able to complete his ‘theory’ and much like the bogus ‘warming’ ‘scientists’ these past few years, much of what Darwin put forth was later found to be totally faux.
I’d like for anyone who is an Atheist to speak out about what part of what GOD or JESUS has said is wrong. What part they can’t believe. As far as not enough proof that Jesus exists? Won’t work with me. I’ve heard Him. I finally got over the stubbornness to accept that GOD created me and more than that…HE LOVES me…..MERRY CHRISTMAS!!
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TomSawyer
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 8:53pmPenn wants to exclude Christ from Christmas.
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paultard
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 8:54pmThe old testament is rooted in Egypt, the New Testament is rooted in the old Testament, so the New Testament is honestly rooted in EGYPT as well. It’s embarrassing how shallow and perochial the average minister or normal christian is.
When I first learned this truth, I ran from the church as fast as I could. Then I realized that there is perhaps an extra-terrestrial origin for mankind, …and the Elohim of Genesis in the Bible could be as the Bible says, our creators/parents from the stars. Maybe there is truth in the Osiris Seriamis/ Horus account, and Jesus is just a tribal manifestation of the truth. So I find it quite consistent if one takes it all in the context of planetary truth within the universal truth of how the universe REALLY works. Horus was the messiah, which is Hebrew for the word Christ, which is the Greek word for Savior. I no longer see a problem with the fundamentals of Christian. I just take pride in knowing the older account is true and validates the stories of “the Christ”….and that his REAL identity Horus.
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valiant1776
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 10:05pm@Paultard That’s called Satan’s deception. You see, Satan knew about God, and his redemptive plan. So Satan, came along, with his minions, other fallen angels, and gave secret knowledge to men, and corrupted the truth of God into worship of creation, instead of severance towards the Creator. Satan himself, and his minions, are those gods the ancients speak of. Satan knew that one day Jesus Christ would be born, wherefore he polluted the minds of the heathen with perverse tales, and changed the truth of God into lies. Satan has captured the mind of the weak minded, and taken captive the gullible man. Satan made himself into Venus, Jupiter and Zeus, and demanded worship, for he was engulfed with self righteousness.
“How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?”
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DanBrogan
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 10:12pm@WAYNER4162 You say that government regulation is restricting freedom, but isn’t government regulated marriage, itself and over violation of liberties that others in a professed free society get to bask in? It is equally immoral in my eyes to have someone else force their values onto a group of people that cannot control their sexuality. It is highly immoral to prohibit a couple that loves each other to marry, no matter the sexual preference, as long as it is consensual. If you believe in FREEDOM and proclaim its importance in our world, then you must believe that allowing two consenting adults to marry is moral, without exclusion.
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lowerclassrepublican
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 10:39pmPenn is a true none believer! All real none believers don’t have any issues with any religion. Just as true gays have no issues with gay this and gay that. It’s the people on the fence in both that have issues.
Most atheist don’t really not believe in God. They want to not believe and have battles within them self’s. Every time religion is brought out this struggle begins a new in their hearts and it is painful. The sooner they can get others to stop reminding them of God the better they think their lives will be.
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resme
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 11:44pm“Let’s stop pledging an allegiance to America.”
The pledge was written by a Christian Socialist in the late 1800′s. Can I pledge my allegiance to god and my family? Not the government.
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WATER-THE-TREE
Posted on December 3, 2012 at 5:45amatheists want to make atheism the state religion, talk about the pot calling the kettle black. and christmas has nothing what so ever to do with God or any religion except the worship of Nimrod.
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Locked
Posted on December 3, 2012 at 8:45amAs a Christian, I think Jillette is right on target. If you think there’s a “war on Christmas” it’s because you’re looking for a reason to be outraged and making things up.
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golfer8805
Posted on December 3, 2012 at 9:25am@Patty Henry
How about this? I think its both wrong and disgusting.
Numbers 15:32-36:
While the people of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation. 34 They put him in custody, because it had not been made clear what should be done to him. 35 And the LORD said to Moses, “The man shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 And all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him to death with stones, as the LORD commanded Moses.
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RavenGlenn
Posted on December 3, 2012 at 11:47am@Water-the-tree:
Absolutely false. I’m an atheist and I couldn’t care any less about Christmas. You want to have Christ in your Christmas? Go for it mate. I’d wager that I’ve read more religious texts from various religions than most people out there in my search for answers. I simply haven’t found any that make any sense to me. But in reading and searching, I have a level of respect for those that DO choose to have faith in their entity. I have faith in my own beliefs and what yours are have no effect on mine whatsoever.
So, while I give those of you with faith in organized religion respect, please do the same in-turn and respect my choice to not believe what you do.
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WATER-THE-TREE
Posted on December 3, 2012 at 1:36pmRAVENGLENN — you TOYALLY misunderstood my post, I am saying that Christ has nothing to do with Christmas because Chistmas is EVIL, of the devil, Christmas is wrong!!!
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YouCantExplainThat
Posted on December 3, 2012 at 4:32pmWho needs cable TV when you can read threads on the Blaze? Hold on while I get my popcorn.
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binge_thinker
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:14pmPoor Penn is starting to look so old because the bitterness and futility of atheism has not served him well.
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binge_thinker
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:40pmAccording to Penn’s worldview the,’mind’ is inconsequential and lacks any kind of instrinsice value. Maybe he’s just angry because atheism ended up being a lose lose proposition. So old, so cold, so nothing.
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mdalton_5117
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 2:46amI’m offended that the Muslims are excluding me from Ramadan. They should change so I am not offended. Why not include everybody?
Now doesn’t that sound silly? So why would PJ think those who worship Christ need to censor themselves to include those that do not worship Christ. Or even believe in Him. I can’t even get my head around it.
Oh, and PJ – I’d prefer not to have abortions performed on my dime. Just sayin’.
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DadRocked
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 4:21amMDalton – “I’m offended that the Muslims are excluding me from Ramadan. They should change so I am not offended.”
Can’t tell of your tone alone, but as an example it does show the humorous side of one sidedness.
These attacks are unnecessary; as are the excuses behind these attacks which are shallow and without substance, neither traditional nor historically based.
“Suum Cuique”
I’m not offended by those celebrating CHRISTMass, the Mass of CHRIST’s birth. If someone says Happy Holidays – the origin is HOLY DAY – So I respond “Happy Holy Days to you as well.”
I’m not offended by those celebrating Chanukah, (FACT) commemorating the rededication during the 2nd century B.C. of the Second Temple in Jerusalem – the Festival of Lights, the holiday is celebrated with the lighting of the menorah, traditional foods, games and gifts – (HISTORICAL EVENT)
I’m not offended by those celebrating Ramadan –their holy month of fasting, introspection and prayer. Fasting is one of the five fundamental principles of Islam. (Religious principle)
I’m not offended by those celebrating Kwanzaa – The bringing of African-Americans together as a community. Created by Dr. Karenga – a professor and chairman of Black Studies at Cal State Univ. in 1966 after the Watts riots in L.A. (Artificially Created)
So to all… “Suum Cuique” Latin for “To Each Their Own” and just “LEAVE US ALONE”
HAPPY HOLY DAYS TO ALL…
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Capt_Gregg
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 8:17amShould the deaf protest a concert in a city park?
When taxpayers’ money goes for extra police when a parade takes place, should non-Shriners protest?
Should the Indians sue because Macy’s Thanksgiving parade is using public streets?
When are the atheist activists going to call for the renaming of such cities as San Francisco, San Diego, St. Petersburg, St. Augustine, St. Paul and St. Louis?
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Favored93
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 9:26amPJ is a fool… a reasonable fool but a fool none the less. Why in the world do we care what he says?
Psalm 14:1The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.”…
I could not agree with your post more…why Christians think that we need to include the atheist fools by excluding our Lord and hero is beyond me!
Look having our religious Christian holiday does not hurt anyone! We have been made to feel guilty in this country for excluding people when the truth is we are BEGGING them to join us! They are angry at us for what wanting them to escape HELL?!?!
Your post was right on. We would not even think to demand the Muslims change their holiday to include us or the atheist so why are we made to?
The sad reality now is that it will not be long before public declarations of the Christian faith will be a death sentence so why does it surprise us that the nation no longer welcomes Jesus?!? We will probably see either Jesus rescue in the rapture or the guillotines in our lifetime so don’t be shocked and shaken all ye people of God that we are being told to keep Jesus to ourselves. Our time is growing shorter by the day. We MUST tell as many as we can as fast as we can that they have hope through Jesus! Don’t let the blood of your neighbors stain your hands because you did not tell them!
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VoteBushIn12
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:05pmIf your local government office celebrated Ramadan I bet you’d be pretty upset. You’d probably start rallying about the “Islamification of America” and that mumbo jumbo.
If they posted fliers inviting you to celebrate with a public Ramadan fasting session at the local courthouse or where ever you, probably wouldn’t take too kindly to knowing your tax dollars were going to support a belief structure you don’t agree with.
The point isn’t about “people” celebrating their respective religions, it’s about the government’s place in that celebration. That’s why Penn says, “I’d rather you not do it on my dime” AKA the tax payer’s dime. Go celebrate Christmas in your house, with your family, friends, and neighbors. Don’t celebrate it at my town hall where my money goes because I don’t pay taxes so YOU can have YOUR religion recognized publicly.
That’s the point. That’s the comparison you need to make.
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PaxInVeritate
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:49pmVOTEBUSHIN12… just how many towns does PJ and you live in and that you pay taxes to?
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Pontiaku
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 1:20pmPaxInVeritate, how many towns do you know for a fact are 100% christian let alone one denomination of christian? Also, why do you need “Government” involved in your celebrations which are pagan celebrations that the catholic church integrated into their customs? Do you need government to legitimize every one of your practices for… what? Psychological reasons? Why is it when someone chooses to call a decorated fir tree a “holiday tree” your kind throws a HISSY FIT? (when you know damn well decorating a fir tree was a pagan practice) And why do you want to use mob threats and “government coercion” to prevent anyone from calling it anything other than YOUR silly christmas tree?
As a fiscal conservative I find it appalling that ANY tax dollars are spent on religious decorations for ANY religion. There is plenty of private property for you to celebrate your gaudy pagan…i mean your gaudy “christian” traditions. I have no issue decorating my house out of MY own pocket for xmas. Maybe you should be a little more conservative and do the same. I certainly don’t want to continue to create a precedence in which muslims can use my tax dollars for their holiday decorations.
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PaxInVeritate
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 2:36pmPONTIAKU…
“…how many towns do you know for a fact are 100% christian let alone one denomination of christian?” – I didn’t know that a Town had to be 100% of anything to approve what it wants with it’s own local funds.
“… why do you need “Government” involved in your celebrations which are pagan celebrations that the catholic church integrated into their customs?” – What any Town, that I don’t live in, does is their business not mine. The one I live in may or may not have a Christmas Crèche, and for that it will be by approval of the majority. I’m but a single person. If the town decides to spend a meager sum and dedicate a portion of property for approximately 3 weeks I’m fine with it. If not I’m fine with it.
“Do you need government to legitimize every one of your practices for… what? Psychological reasons?” – You are projecting a “need” and psychological (can’t fathom that one) on me that’s not there.
“your kind” – Did you just create a ‘class’ that needs protection?
“And why do you want to use mob threats and “government coercion” to prevent anyone from calling it anything other than YOUR silly christmas tree?” – I never have nor will.
(cont)
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PaxInVeritate
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 2:47pm(cont)
“As a fiscal conservative I find it appalling that ANY tax dollars are spent on religious decorations for ANY religion.” – So it’s by your will that all towns (and I’m leaving out Metros because of the vast conglomerations of cultures and creeds) decide what they wish to spend their local tax money on? that was the original point of my question to PJ and VOTEBUSHIN12, i.e. “How many towns do they live in” to be so concerned with how local taxes and public property is utilized.
Except for this sentence, I will ignore the bigotry found in your posting.
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The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 2:49pm‘Hissy fit’….I love it.
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Pontiaku
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 3:45pm[I didn’t know that a Town had to be 100% of anything to approve what it wants with it’s own local funds.]
I don’t know of any town so small that can supersede the Supremacy Clause, civil rights laws, or the constitutional rights of a minority.
[What any Town, that I don’t live in, does is their business not mine.]
Any town/city/state in the US that is subverting the constitution and establishing or “promoting” a religion through the instrument of government is everyone’s business. I don’t want to be on trial in a court room with koran passages carved in stone anymore than ones that protect the vanity of a judeo-christian sky daddy.
[I’m but a single person]
Exactly. You are an individual with “individual” rights. Your argument is the “collective” has more rights than the individual on the matters of religion and can use government to do as they please.
They do not have a right to use government and tax payer funds for their system of belief. Peoples religious beliefs are sacred to them and they should NOT be subjected to government coercion at any level.
[“How many towns do they live in” to be so concerned with how local taxes and public property is utilized.]
There is no exclusion on the size of governance. The Constitution is for ALL to abide by.
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SickOfSociety
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 3:50pmThis is an excellent point.
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valiant1776
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 5:01pmA town saying “Merry Christmas” is not promoting Christianity, if it were, than a town offering donuts would be promoting obesity.
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Marine25
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 7:39pm@paxinveterate
you said ““…how many towns do you know for a fact are 100% christian let alone one denomination of christian?” – I didn’t know that a Town had to be 100% of anything to approve what it wants with it’s own local funds. ”
Even 100% of a town can’t approve of anything that violates The Constitution. That was the expressed purpose of The Bill of Rights.
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PaxInVeritate
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 11:13pmPONTIAKU…
“Peoples religious beliefs are sacred to them and they should NOT be subjected to government coercion at any level.” – Yes, by it’s nature “beliefs” are sacred or one wouldn’t have them. So a town who’s populace supports a Crèche and or a tree being displayed is going to exert such force that you will have no choice but to convert to that religion? That is a rhetorical question. But let’s continue on this tact for a moment. Would passing by a Muslim spire with speakers blaring at 120 dB with the call to prayer coerce me into converting to Islam? Nope. And you better believe that you will hear call to prayer while on public land. Besides all this, you are continuing to assert an error with the “anti-establishment clause”. Although a Crèche and tree is Christian in nature, displaying it is not establishing any particular religion that all must adhere to. Look at it or don’t and move on. To display a Creche or tree does not force anyone to supplicate and worship any deity against their will. No civil liberty is violated.
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PaxInVeritate
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 11:19pmWhere do you get “the size of governance” from my statement? However, the Constitution exerts by authority of the people what the Federal Government can NOT do, not what it can. That is limiting it’s size and authority. Again the original question asked IS how many different towns does Pen and VOTEBUSHIN12 actually live in, to where they can dictate what they think is right? Again it’s a rhetorical question to bring up the point of a towns right, which Pen and VOTEBUSHIN12 don’t live in, to do what the town desires out of, and for their own interests and good with non-Federal monies (local taxes) on non-Federal lands (local public property).
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Max jones
Posted on December 3, 2012 at 12:06amI’m white and stand 5’6″ tall….I want the entire NBA penalized for my lack of capacity to compete, now!
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BlasberryStrat
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 2:25amMan (i.e. men AND women) at some point run in to the wall of their own mortality. It’s called ‘mid life crisis’. And a red Corvette or Mustang won’t fill the void you face. Myself, I believe in God and an afterlife in Heaven with my family and yes…pets. But it’s so much more than my belief. It gives me a hope and light at the end of my mortal life. I have and still ponder about reincarnation, but it also simply gives me a sense of happiness that there will be some continuance after death of my body. I cannot understand the universe or what makes “life” tick. So I certainly hope that when it’s time to die, that it won’t be “that’s all folks”. Having “something” to believe in isn’t being a moron. It’s having “something” to hold close while trying to get through these upside down times we live in, and having a glimmer of hope that there just may be my grandmother waiting on the other side. Maybe science is correct and when you’re done – you’re done. Look, my life sucks. Anything that can go wrong, goes wrong for me. We all know someone like that. My belief in God gives me some kind of “soft blanket” to wrap up in during this life, and I truly believe that my afterlife will be a heck of a lot better than this. I just ask that atheists don’t get all up in my grille and “tell me” that my hopes are crap. Hey, I’m not the one who took away your Twinkies. And Gaylor still looks like a Bull Seal.
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ProudInfidelToo
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 7:42pmThis verse answers the reincarnation question:-) We only die once = no reincarnation
Hebrews 9:27
King James Version (KJV)
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
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Brentley
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 8:52pmBlasberry, Please read Book of JOHN in KJV (king James Version) of Bible. Then please listen and obey. Trust me there is no Re-incarnation. You will die one time (physical) then second death if you do not accept CHRIST As your SAVIOR…the second death is eternal…separation from GOD..and a burning in HELL of FIRE and BRIM STONE FOREVER AND EVER…..not my words..GODS…You Blasberry and me and everyone else is deserving of that second death…but because of JESUS CHRIST…we can have eternal LIFE in HEAVEN…..Romans 6:23 For the wages of SIN is Death (eternal); but the gift of GOD is eternal life through JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD.
There is only one way to get to Heaven and that is by Trusting Jesus as Lord and Savior.
No magic..no re-incarnation…..Ephesians 2:8-9 For by Grace are ye saved through Faith;and that not of yourselves: It is the gift of GOD: not of works lest any man should boast.
So Blasberry please read..accept that has TRUTH and get heart right with GOD….ask JESUS to enter and you will be amazed how Free you will become.
Will be PRAYING FOR YOU!
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DEFCON4
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 2:20amHappy Birthday,dear Jesus !
http://youtu.be/9t4FgmaKOy8…..
And, to all a “good-night”…..
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Pontiaku
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 11:24amExcept…it’s not Jesus’s birthday. It’s the Catholic Churches integration of pagan celebrations into christianity. It’s like…buying a used Ford truck and celebrating with everyone thinking that you bought a new Chevy truck.
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The Scarecrow
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 2:11pmWell ponti since you purport to know when Jesus birthday is tell us and we will celebrate it that day.
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Benjamin Abruzzo
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 4:51pm@ Pontiaku
I’ve seen you and other comment on how this time of year is not in fact thw birth day of Joshua of Nazareth, son of Joeseph and Mary (an actual man according to many people and some research and dig sites). The question I have is, multi-fold…
- Can people recognize a person who created a philosophy or is prominent in the philosophy?
- Can that person, whose influence reached only a small portion of the world, eventually be recognized the world over for the ideas of the philosophy?
- Can a birthday of the philosopher be recognized and even celebrated?
- Can that celebration occur on a day other than the actual historica day of that origin?
- Can that philosophy be inclusive, even is it spawns micro sects around it that become non-inclusive?
Thanksgiving is a celebration of an event, but it doesn’t happen on the historical date. Columbus Day and MLK Jr Day celebrate people influencial in the creation of America (good and bad), but not on any significant day. St. Patrick’s Day and St’Valentine’s Day make not of these religious figures’ acts and life, but not to their religion.
Like it or not, the founders of the United States of America used the philosophy of Joshua of Nazareth, son of Joeseph and Mary, as part of the foundation of this country, and people picked a day, symbols and traditions to honor that philosophy. And there are people who choose to attack this concept as religious rather than understanding the truth of the matter.
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Ragnars Repos
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 1:20amTrying to have this sort of conversation with christians is like trying to explain an airplane to an indian medicine man 300 years ago. You could explain it for hours on end, and the best he’ll ever come up with is, “Iron eagle!”
They don’t/won’t understand it because they don’t care about reality. They want what they want, and as an atheist you’re in their way.
They are exactly like the left in this, and a few other fundamental ways. Which is exactly why the country is lurching to the left.
Christians are as nutty as Muslims, and they don’t want to be the ‘friends’ of atheists. The christian’s view of the universe is diametrically opposed the atheist’s. We’re conceptually out of phase.
Like any other savage tribe, they are comfortable only with domination. Why do think religious people simply cannot stop killing one another? They are quite literally sick in the head.
The so-called “war on Christmas” is about as reality-based as the left’s “war on women” during the last presidential campaign.
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Centurian
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 1:52amSir, you must read up a little better.
What you are speaking of is known as democide. Democide is the murder of any person or people by a government, including genocide, politicide, and mass murder (WIkipedia).
There is a 4X greater death toll from democide that all the wars combined. Roughly 170 million people, though the 20th century, have died due to democide.
Amazingly, the leaders of democide are the leftist, communist, authoritative regimes. Russia, Nazi Germany, China, Cambodia, etc.
All of these countries banned, or partially banned, religion in their countries. In fact, many specifically targeted religious groups, with Christians being number one on the list.
I know my history well, and can say without hesitation, that when religion is banned and/or partially banned, the country in question almost always turns into a blood bath.
The reason is simple: Many religions, such as Christianity, place high value on human life. When humanism becomes the main drive, then life is devalued, and abortion is permitted, sexual proclivities are encouraged, and euthanasia is encouraged (or even governmental regulated) for those born with birth defects, the old, and the infirm (since all three are considered a drain on society and its resources).
Sorry, but I cannot accept this type of society that you are unintentionally advocating.
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jman-6
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 1:54amUsing your broad brush rationale I suppose you think Jones’ mass suicide of him and his converts were just christian “nut-jobs”? Just because someone claims they’re a Christian or goes to church doesn’t make them one. To be a Christian means being Christ like always abiding in faith, love, and being in HIS WILL as a result of your personal relationship with JESUS CHRIST! That’s why JESUS said “you would know them by there fruits”. I’ll pray asking for your blinders to fall off so you can recieve the TRUTH!
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Dano.50
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 1:57amRagnar
That’s a crock.
I’m Catholic and I’ve got family members who are atheists and we get along just fine. They don’t refuse to come to my home because I’ve got a Crucifix hanging up, or demand I take it down, and in their home I don’t question why they don’t believe. We talk business, politics, and sports and get along just fine.
Are there nut Bible Thumpers? Yeah.
But the nut atheists are worse. They’re the ones doing the suing, and as fanatic as religious extremists got, there has not been one public case of a religious person suing an atheist over their “Lack of Belief.”
Right now, it’s a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
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Witness1974
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 1:59amThere is nothing like the combination of arrogance and ignorance. You have a lot more reading and reflecting to do before you spout off about who Christians are. From what you say here you know nothing about Christianity and very little about the implications of your own beliefs. Crack a book!
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DLV
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 2:00amCenturian- Nice @$$ whopping. Take him down with facts!
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Pontiaku
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 2:14amDLV, except for the fact he didn’t actually address Ragnars post.
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spikebu
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 2:24amMuch as I adore Penn Jillette and pretty much agree with him on most everything but God, he is wrong now. I am so tired of the Progressives taking an inch here, or a mile there. If Mr Jillette can’t see it, he is being deliberately obtuse. That’s his right. I will exercise my right and say, “BULL!”. There is indeed a war on Christmas.
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spikebu
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 2:44amRagnar, you confuse Religion with Christianity. You are as uninformed as the religions you complain about. I would say you are as rabid about your religion as any Muslim. Bow down to your God of no Gods, dude, it’s your right. I hope it works out for you.
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nzkiwi
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 2:57am“Christians are as nutty as Muslims…”
Ragnars, that simply isn’t true. Even a casual glance at the headlines must prove that to any rational person.
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thequeenbee
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 3:02amTell that to the Christians who are being murdered in their churches all over over the world. Try being a Christian in an arab country. Christianity is the only group in this country who are fair game to impugn and make fun of in public discourse. Does hollywood make fun of muslims? Can anyone make jokes about muslims? No Can an artist paint a picture of mohamed and cover it with feces? Can they photograph a statue of mohamed and stick it in a glass of urine? I rest my case.
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AnAppealToGod
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 3:29amComparing Christians to Indians and the Indian’s ability to perceive an airplane might be one of the most small minded and naive comments I have ever witnessed from a Christian basher. It has zero relevance. I am actually a little embarrassed for you, but then again it is the internet.
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ArgumentumAdAbsurdum
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 6:08am@Centurian(sic)
Firstly I think the spelling you’re looking for is CENTURION. Unless of course you’re into death metal.
“Amazingly, the leaders of democide are the leftist, communist, authoritative regimes. Russia, Nazi Germany, China, Cambodia, etc.
All of these countries banned, or partially banned, religion in their countries. In fact, many specifically targeted religious groups, with Christians being number one on the list.”
Wow, where to begin? Perhaps you should heed your own advice and “read up a little better”.
Nazi Germany first of all was neither leftist or communist. Secondly they didn’t ban religion and certainly not Christianity. Nazis were nearly exclusively Christian. And to suggest that Christianity, even if it were targeted, would be “number one on the list.” might be offensive to Jews.
Really? China and Cambodia targeted Christians above others? I think the Buddhists might have something to say about that.
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lonwarner2
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 7:08amYou must live in California.
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RobbieTLHughie
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 8:09amAs a fellow atheist, you’re full of it.
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4truth2all
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 8:55amSince the 1900′s the number of christians killed for their faith, I believe comes to around 100,000 per year.
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NOTAMUSHROOM
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 8:58amSeriously Ragnar. You need to stop tuning into MSLSD. Denial and obfuscation are unbecoming.
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skippy6
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 9:16amSome believe Religions should not coincide with science…I would argue that they work better together…..Change over time= evolution….But where did life originate?? That’s the real question that is unanswered but should never be suppressed…..
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HOOT_OWL
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 9:29am@ArgumentumAdAbsurdum
Your another one blinded by bias .You should have read what
JMAN-6 wrote too..…..
” Many SAY they are ‘Christians’…IN WORDS ONLY. …But in DEEDS…. they couldn’t be any farther from being one“. ..!
EVIL and CHRIST …DO NOT SHARE THE SAME SPACE …
People that do EVIL and claim to be Christians ..Have the spirit of the ANTI-CHRIST in them and NOT have the spirit of GOD..
You will know them by their fruits…!
Murder is NOT one of the fruits of the spirit ..
Which was what the Nazi regime was all about.
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TulsaYeeHaw
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 11:42am@argumentumadabsurdum
NAZI’S weren’t leftists?
NATIONAL SOCIALIST PARTY?
They didn’t replace all religious symbols, such as paintings of Jesus with paintings of hitler? They were almost all Christian? Perhaps they proclaimed that, but their deeds speak otherwise, not to mention they did go after Christians (see Bonhofer) who didn’t tow the nazi line. Oh, but they were religious non-leftists.
The soviets didn’t confiscate churches and use them as graineries? The didn’t outlaw bibles? With trips to gulags as punishment. I KNOW people from the USSR, and they all say the opposite of you.
China and other east asian communist nations were and do routinely target Christians. They may not be target number 1, but that is semantics.
YOU KNOW THIS, yet you stated the opposite. LIAR.
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skippy6
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:05pm@ Argument Nazi Germany first of all was neither leftist or communist.
Depends on how you divide the power structure…..Ours is the far left as absolute power and the far right as anarchy…..Then they would be left of the spectrum…..YES???NO???
Dictator/King—–Obama———————————middle————————–Penn———–Anarchy.
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SacredHonor1776
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:33pmFascism is a mix of socialism/marxism, and capitalism. It was considered the ‘third position’. Aka, State Capitalism. The state indirectly controls the means of production and companies. The ceos and managers are more or less puppets of the state. Fascism lies almost perpindicular to both socialism and capitalism. It is not ‘centrist’ or ‘moderate’. Followers of fascism have a disdaine for liberals, communists, conservatives, etc (except for those elements it pulls from both).
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SacredHonor1776
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:44pmThis conflict must not be allowed to cancel out all our achievements of the past eighteen years, nor, more importantly, extinguish the hope of a Third Alternative held out by Fascism to mankind fettered between the pillar of capitalist slavery and the post of Marxist chaos.
—Benito Mussolini, 1940.[
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SacredHonor1776
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:54pm“It is obvious what the fraudulent issue of fascism versus communism accomplishes: it sets up, as opposites, two variants of the same political system; it eliminates the possibility of considering capitalism; it switches the choice of “Freedom or dictatorship?” into “Which kind of dictatorship?”—thus establishing dictatorship as an inevitable fact and offering only a choice of rulers. The choice—according to the proponents of that fraud—is: a dictatorship of the rich (fascism) or a dictatorship of the poor (communism).
“That fraud collapsed in the 1940’s, in the aftermath of World War II. It is too obvious, too easily demonstrable that fascism and communism are not two opposites, but two rival gangs fighting over the same territory—that both are variants of statism, based on the collectivist principle that man is the rightless slave of the state—that both are socialistic, in theory, in practice, and in the explicit statements of their leaders—that under both systems, the poor are enslaved and the rich are expropriated in favor of a ruling clique—that fascism is not the product of the political “right,” but of the “left”—that the basic issue is not “rich versus poor,” but man versus the state, or: individual rights versus totalitarian government—which means: capitalism versus socialism.”-Ayn Rand
“‘Extremism,’ or The Art of Smearing,” Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal, 180.
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Lucy Larue
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 2:36pmRagnars,
Tres hysterical you are. It is YOU that has the problem.
Were I a medical Doctor I would Diagnose you with an ignorance of History.
I also believe that YOU believe that your intelligence quotient is a lot higher than it truly is.
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justlyso
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 2:46pmRag has a point but I would add the atheists go so far overboard that they will eventually tip the boat. There is history associated with Christianity. Does that mean you don’t discuss the Bible references in literature nor enjoy the great architecture encapsulated in churches and cathedrals, so fine arts and great literature must also be removed from the state public schools. I question the depth of intellect when you read Pontiaku condone derogatory terms about Christians. If you don’t like Merry Christmas and the spirit it is meant than frown and turn away. Truthfully, I enjoy it more. As far as Jews, most are only categorically Jewish so their outrage is amusing. My Jewish friends send me Hannukkah cards but are outraged if I send Christmas cards, get it??? They are narrow minded like Penn.
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TheCalmOne
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 4:51pmTULSAYEEHAW: You actually think the Nazis were socialist because the name of the party includes the word ‘socialist’? That has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever read on the Internet.
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Max jones
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 9:05pmDANO Seen this? http://www.remnantofgod.org/Rev17.12.htm I especially like the Jesuit oath. Don’t you?
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Normanator01
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 9:44pmChristians as nutty as Muslims?….hmmm….lots of christians are chopping off heads of non-believers?….really?
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Atrum Angelis
Posted on December 3, 2012 at 2:44pmThe German Nation Socialists were about as socialist as the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (north Korea) is democratic.
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robh
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 1:08amWow.
That’s first time I saw Jillette was not soundly logical in one of his argument. He appears more of a propagandist than a “true believer”, if you will.
Now, 30% are going to determine what the other 70% of a people are going to say or not say? Suggesting that believers of Christ modify their speech is intolerant on the face of it.
Atheists are going to be inclusive by requiring those who do not believe (in atheism) to exclude and strike from their vocabulary (censor) what is most precious to them (Christ)? Rolling with it does not happen when one group (atheists) insist that the other group (believers in Christ) do so. That is called “repression”.
See, this argument reversal can go both ways. It was embarrassingly amateurish of Penn Jillette and, I would argue, intellectually dishonest of based on his past “performances”.
Christians don’t need to prove that they are tolerant just as republicans don’t need to prove they are not racist.
I thought we were over that, as I was personally at around the age twelve, but it apparently this tactic still gets some traction and will continue to be exploited for that very last bit of influence it will compell. Even by Penn Jillette!
I’m sincerely disappointed.
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The-Real-Enrico
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 1:14amI agree. Penn is better than this.
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jman-6
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 1:18amI believe they call that Saul Obamalynski’s Rules for Radical Marxists!
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RobbieTLHughie
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 8:11amYou really do love to say that, I don’t think I’ve seen a comment where you don’t mention Saul Alinsky. Is he your husband? ;)
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LeadNotFollow
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:57am.
Can you think of any other word that sounds more beautiful, or looks more pleasing to the eye, or makes you feel so warm inside, than the word Christmas? I sure can’t.
I never get tired of the word Christmas.
Merry Christmas everyone. May God bless you.
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jman-6
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 1:15amAgreed Christmas is Great! On a side note it seems ludicrous that someone who doesn’t believe GOD exits spend all their time and energy fighting against that non-existant GOD! LOL!! That should be the new definition of “INSANITY”!! LOL sometimes even I make a funny! GOD BLESS & MERRY CHRISTMAS!
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robh
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 3:07amBeautifully stated.
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Lois150
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 8:49amyes, I can…..the word is JESUS.
This is going to be the best Christmas ever! I’ve already declared victory in the “war on Christmas.” I choose to accept the greatest give of all, a child who came to give us life. I believe that He came according to God’s plan. God does not need to be defended. He just needs us to open the cage doors and let Him loose. Instead of getting angry when someone challenges our belief, we should use it as an opportunty to show love and understanding to our fellow man. For me personally, I count the “bah humbugs,” that I hear during the season. For every one I hear, I stick a dollar in the Salvation Army kettle. What started as bad, God turned into something good and I am His soldier.
“Let there be peace on earth, and let it begin with me.”
Merry Christmas Everyone!
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Pantloadian
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 9:13amI got a better word . . . MOM
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Zike
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 10:04amWhy do the words Christmas need to be changed for Atheists? If your worship no God, then you have no God to upset. Honestly, I do not care or really get offended when others use Happy Holidays(Holiday being a religious word anyway), What really upsets me is when you are forced too. Plenty examples of this exist in government and in businesses. Most Atheists I know would like to make it a crime to day in public if they could. If no war exists? Why are there so many attacks?
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LeadNotFollow
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:49am.
I won’t shop anywhere that posts Merry Xmas. I know the X in another language is supposed to mean Christ, but to me, the X looks as if Christ has been removed from Christmas.
If a business won’t bother to spell out the word Christmas, then I don’t bother to give them my hard earned money. I “X” them off my list.
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DEFCON4
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 1:17am@Lead, I agree, x-mas is “short-hand” for I don’t give a damn..$$$….
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PaxInVeritate
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 5:20amNotice the profile picture next to my tag… It is called the “Chi Rho”. It’s the first two letters of the Greek form for Christ (ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ, N.B. The X and P). The “Mas” is Old English translation (not shorthand) for the latin “Mass”. So putting the X with Mass is an authentic and acceptable form for the word Christmas. Your dislike of this form, even though it is traditionally acceptable, is due to it’s overuse in commercialism.
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gyro
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 11:06amnot so not so
xmas is a season
its not a religional thing its a peace thing
if some one sends you a xmas card you are geting a gift of the season
a Christmas card is sent with love of religion
dont blame anyone for xmas they just may not have Christmas in thier heart
dosnt make then bad ?
Merry Christmas and Xmas blaze readers
RW
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PaxInVeritate
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 1:56pmGYRO… the merging of the Chi (X) to the “Mas” is historical and infers what it means through the intent of the authors which devised it’s creation… Christmas = XMas. Opinions can not change historical facts.
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Max jones
Posted on December 3, 2012 at 12:16amPAX….here are some historical facts….http://www.remnantofgod.org/ustashe.htm
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possom
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:33amBefore it get’s here I want to be the first to say it…..”MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL YOU CONTROL FREAK ATHEIST”S AND THROWBACK MUSLIM DEVIL WORSHIPER”S!!!!
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Pouncing Porcupine
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 1:37amGod forbid someone should try to subdue any of the atheist holy days, e.g., Atheist Pride/Freedom from Religion Day/Darwin’s Birthday……. Earth Day/Lenin’s Birthday…….and, of course, April 1st. I wonder what that fat mouthed Jillette would have to say if there were a concerted movement to protect Christian public school children from being bombarded with atheist prosthelytizing? A lot, I’m sure.
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JACKTHETOAD
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 2:30amReminds me of Mr. Mackey’s song from the ‘Mr. Hankey’s Christmas’ episode from South Park. It’s hilarious! “…Hey there mr. muslim, Merry effin’ Christmas…” Those two guys are sick puppies. :)
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hatchetjob
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 4:16pmRight on, POSSOM, you said it better than I ever could, and Merry Christmas to all!
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ANoNameMess
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:25am1. Atheists are the “wedding crashers” of Christmas. I don’t understand why anyone would want to celebrate something they don’t agree with the origins of. For instance, even though I’m sure Jews have a blast celebrating Yon Kipper, I don’t necessarily feel the urgency to be “included” with its celebration. [Disclaimer: I have nothing against Jews; this was only an example. Lighten up.]
2. For being a “non-attack”, this movement by the atheists sure seems to have Christians square in their cross-hairs. In other words, I don’t hear of any other religions being asked to take their fundamental theology out of their celebrations.
So, to condense Penn’s argument: “If Christians can’t take Christ out of Christmas, then I feel left out. Shame on them for being so selfish.” Hey, Penn, nobody’s un-inviting you from Christmas except yourself!
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mdalton_5117
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 2:31amWell said.
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nzkiwi
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 3:06amI agree. I’ve been invited to church many times. I always quietly mention that I’m an atheist in case anyone might object to my presence. No-one ever has. I’ve always been welcomed and treated with the kindness and goodwill that is the hallmark of most Christians – especially at Christmas time.
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holy ghostbuster
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 1:27pmAtheists are the wedding crashers of Christmas? Christmas began as a Roman pagan holiday called Saturnalia. It was the Christians who highjacked the holiday in order to convert the pagans. Now, there was nothing good about Saturnalia, but history would have the Christians being the wedding crashers of Saturnalia.
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70S_KIDS_FIGHTING_SOCIALISM
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:16amThe Atheist view on religion makes no sense. If I take the true Darwinian Atheist view.
1. No society has ever been created without a God, higher power etc..
2. Man obviously has a need for a higher power for survival.
3. The Atheist is the weak link and needs to stop procreating an start their ultimate demise that is inevitable.
4. The secular progressives are the Darwinian freak show of destroying themselves through abortion and the starving of millions upon millions due to their policies.
5. The secular progressives policies create a dumb down society ruled by a corrupt government.
6. The secular progressives policies ALWAYS creates poverty with gangs and violence as solutions to problems.
I’ll take my true proven God any day over secular progressives God Huge Massive Fascist Government Control.
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vox_populi
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:20amI was going to respond to your comment, but then I realized it was total nonsense and I have no idea what you’re talking about.
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70S_KIDS_FIGHTING_SOCIALISM
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:29am@ COMMIE POLLI
That is because you went to a public unionized school. You should be made to where the I’m stupid sign. Besides we are no longer arguing with idiots ie anti-freedom Commie Fascist.
TEA PARTY UNTOUCHABLES!!!!!!!!
PS You have been brainwashed and are to stupid to realize it. Your so stupid you vote to enslave yourself. Duh!!!!!!!!!!
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Max jones
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:36amVOX…What he said is this …He sees Godless society as a moral vacuity that allows human nature to run its perditious course, in defiance of proven beneficial behavior. He sees the damage caused by this sort of rebellion and has chosen NOT to participate. OK?
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jman-6
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:40amvox- I figured you would be “offended” by someone’s post against commie/fascist nannystates! I bet you wonder how I figured that out huh comrad? Whatta joke!
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vox_populi
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:41am“That is because you went to a public unionized school. You should be made to where the I’m stupid sign.”
*wear* You should be made to *wear* the ‘I’m stupid’ sign.
Normally I’m not a grammar Nazi, but I mean, really. Don’t misspell things while criticizing my education (about which you know nothing).
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The Third Archon
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 1:13am@VOX
(But we DID go to a public unionized school–that’s why we don’t make incoherent grammatically butchered posts like SOME lovely gems I’ve seen on here)
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DLV
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 2:03amThird- Hey look a troll wasting his time on a site he doesn’t like. Get a life honestly.
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Pontiaku
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 2:08am[that’s why we don’t make incoherent grammatically butchered posts]
I’ll assume he did too so that kind of nullifies your counter argument.
I’ll bite…
[No society has ever been created without a God, higher power etc..]
Then by this logic there is more than one god.
[Man obviously has a need for a higher power for survival.]
Oh noes, I’m dying!
[The Atheist is the weak link and needs to stop procreating an start their ultimate demise that is inevitable.]
an start? FFS man, I don’t even know what you’re implying here. Eugenics?
[The secular progressives are the Darwinian freak show of destroying themselves through abortion]
Or keeping the children they already have from starving.
[and the starving of millions upon millions due to their policies.]
You can’t have it both ways. Btw, how many children have you adopted? (kinda hoping you’re not raising any with your level of ignorance)
[The secular progressives policies create a dumb down society ruled by a corrupt government.]
As opposed to what? Your dreamy theocracy that burns witches? Even that takes a dumb down society.
[The secular progressives policies ALWAYS creates poverty with gangs and violence as solutions to problems.]
Lol, k… Not very clear what secularism has to do with that.
[I’ll take my true proven God any day]
Still waiting for that proven part.
[over secular progressives God Huge Massive Fascist Government Control.]
GHMFGC for short.
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dissentnow
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 7:40am“5. The secular progressives policies create a dumb down society ruled by a corrupt government.
6. The secular progressives policies ALWAYS creates poverty with gangs and violence as solutions to problems”
I wish that people would not always combine the words “secular” and “progressive”. Its narrow-minded and dangerous to do so. It is appropriate to combine the two when talking about things like “the war on Christmas” but it is not appropriate when talking about actual politics because there are plenty of religious progressive RINOS who are pushing policies that create a larger and more corrupt form of government.
Also, if you vote republican you’re voting to enslave yourself, as well. The GOP has been hijacked by the progressives. No one who loves the constitution or the spirit of the founding fathers can support something like the NDAA or the patriot act.
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grayling646
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:15amRefreshing? Just more blah, blah, blah from a lefty atheist who completely misses the point either due to ignorance or an agenda.
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vox_populi
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:21am“lefty”
Libertarian.
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Kupo
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:27amApparently people throw around the word left when they have no idea what it even means. Penn Jillette is not a lefty.
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GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 3:35amPenn is a Lefty in much the same way that bratwurst is made of frog legs.
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SacredHonor1776
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 6:47amLibertarians don’t all fit under the same umbrella… There are left leaning libertarians and right leaning libertarians. Some that are more ‘liberal’ and some that are more ‘conservative’… Some that are ‘athiests’, and some that are ‘religious’. Of course most of the time, a right leaning libertarian will claim that a left leaning libertarian isn’t a ‘real’ libertarian, and likewise a left leaning libertarian will claim that a right leaning libertarian isn’t a ‘real’ libertarian.
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SacredHonor1776
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 6:54amIt doesn’t help that there are at least a half-dozen different ‘libertarian’ philosophies, and not all libertarians are a homogenous mass that agree on every ‘point’… Because perhaps if they did, they would actually come together and become a very strong party.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-libertarianism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deontological_libertarianism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consequentialist_libertarians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism
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SacredHonor1776
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 7:18amIf all “libertarians” agreed on all points, they’d probably become a powerhouse of a third party (could probably overthrow one of the main parties)… But eh, there is so much division in their ranks as it is… With at least half a dozen variants…
But of the two I alluded to before there is;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-libertarianism
Some of the other ‘related’ “schools”…
Classical liberal
Christian libertarianism
Consequentialist libertarianism
Geolibertarianism
Green libertarianism
Left-libertarianism
Libertarian Marxism
Libertarian socialism
Minarchism
Natural-rights libertarianism
Paleolibertarianism
Right-libertarianism
What’s freaky some of these ‘libertarian’ schools focus on and utilize aspects of marxism and socialism…
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SacredHonor1776
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 7:28amThere are also apparently ‘neo-libertarians’ as well… Who have a more ‘pro-war’ stance when it comes to ‘preemptive’ defense (which they may share with ‘neo-conservatism”), but share most other ‘small government’, ‘state rights’, personal property rights, POV. Glenn Beck may fall more towards neo-libertarian/right-libertarian, than he would towards the ‘left’ side of libertarianism.
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dissentnow
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 8:24am“lefty”
You know what happens when you assume, Grayling?
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grayling646
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 11:24pmI meant he is left handed. Sheesh. Isn’t he left handed?
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missmarie
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:15am“…I’d rather you didn’t do it on my dime”
Funny, I feel the exact same way about providing birth control to 12 year olds, sex change operations to prisoners, housing and benefits to illegal immigrants, etc., etc. – I’d rather you didn’t do it on my dime.
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Dougral Supports Israel
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:22amExactly!
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The-Real-Enrico
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:27amPenn is a libertarian and would agree with you. You’re trying to attack from the wrong position.
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Kupo
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:28amAnd for some reason you assume that Penn Jillette supports those things? Why? Because he’s an atheist?
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ambrosia
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 8:57am@MISSMARIE
Bravo !
That is the intelligent comeback.
However, if you were to use that perfectly logical response
to someone like snifflin’ George Snuffalopaloosa’ on ABC
or dopey David Gregory on ‘Meet the Press”-
their reply would be the same old,
“Let’s move on”….
When these evil boll weevils
are pulverized with the truth
and can’t justify a liberal response-
they ALWAYS choose……..”to MOVE on”.
When they frantically utter, “Let’s move on”-
we KNOW & THEY know,
their liberal spinning stops in mid-air
because they’ve lost their balance AND the argument
& their spitball brains have no where safe to go.
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mr.goodvibe
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 10:54amMISSMARIE- Nice!
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Dougral Supports Israel
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:03amI believe people should be free to celebrate their own holidays and be proud enough to name them. In my case I wish people a Merry Christmas. I am not offended if someone of another faith wishes me well on their holidays. I take it as goodwill towards me even if I don’t share their celebration. If we want to keep our freedoms in America then we must exercise them even if a few atheists get their panties in a twist over it.
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vox_populi
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:08amRight – that’s why you’re free to celebrate whatever holiday you want, while the government shouldn’t be showing preference for one holiday over the other.
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70S_KIDS_FIGHTING_SOCIALISM
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:23am@commie polli
Then why should government take preference of one race over another. The government makes super citizens out of Blacks, Hispanics, gays and women. Why don’t you just stand by your Darwinian theory of survival of the fittest? Because your the hypocrite!!!!!!!!!
TEA PARTY UNTOUCHABLES!!!!!!!!!!
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The-Real-Enrico
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:24amThank you! I agree 100%. Anybody who calls them selves a Christian but them gets mad or even irritated over others words of good will need to reexamine them selves.
Too many people who proclaim to know Christ but then don’t know how or just don’t use a mirror.
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jman-6
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:30amVox- your commy fist sign suits you! Just do us all a favor, You n your ilk move to Russia or China or even Venezuela and that way you don’t end up dead as a result of your viva-la-revolution stupidity!
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vox_populi
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:46am“Vox- your commy fist sign suits you!”
Glad you like it.
“You n your ilk move to Russia”
Russia has a flat income tax, an incredibly deregulated private sector, an untouchable corporate elite, a deep Christian conservatism, an outlawing of homosexuality, and an incredible amount of military-worship.
You move to Russia.
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DLV
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 2:08amVox- Fine go to Cuba, France, China, orrr ohhh how about the Czech Republic, they’re pretty atheistic. Maybe Vietnam, North Korea, or Canada ay? You’re right Russia is pretty conservative but there are other choices as well.
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CHROME_PLATED_HEART
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 8:58amYou forgot long lines for toilet paper and bread, Vox. Or was that the old days? Either way, it’s a drag.
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Twobyfour
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 1:52pmDLV
Being both a Czech and a Canadian, let ne address these two countries in your list.
Czechs may be more atheist that many other countries, but you’d see very little of that American militant atheism there. That’s because Czech atheists readily admit the importance of judeo-christian heritage and because they don’t feel threatened by Christians–not because of their numbers, but simply because there is no threat. It won’t be that unusual for an atheist contributing a donation to a repair of a church. Additionally, they don’t like commies, having to experience them for 41 years. Not a good match for Vox.
Canada is still predominantly Christian. There is some militant atheism present, but not as much or not in the scope as seen in US. You don’t hear about attempt to remove crosses from public display or some atheist getting apoplexic seeing a nativity scene in a storefront. Second, Canada is steadily moving towards the right side of the political spectrum, especially in the last half-dozen years, but the trend started in 90′s after the socialism-lite experiment was seen as a failure. Again, not a good match for Vox.
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jalice
Posted on December 3, 2012 at 2:09amTo all atheists:
In all due respect- why not create a holiday to celebrate your beliefs, or lack thereof?
I am fine if you want to hang ” we don’t believe in any gods” in a park or bus or tv ads, or design atheism toys or whatever. While I do not agree with you, I respect your right to be anti-religion and to announce it to whomever you want. Our other religions should and do have the same rights.
Why should Christians not have the same consideration? Our Godly beliefs just happen to be more prevalent in USA (for now); why are you angry that I like to celebrate my beliefs, both cultural and spiritual? It seems as tho new holidays are created fairly easily these days and with the socially PC attitude you would get all the support you need. I won’t offend you, you don’t offend us. Why do people have to denigrate others because they can? (That’s our freedom of speech at work…)
everybody needs to get over the bashing and focus on what’s important to you,
regardless of your belief system, time’s a wasting.
This country was founded on Judeo-Christian PRINCIPLES and so it is. Maybe someday if all the secular folks hang around long enough, their views will impact the political landscape in the majority. For now, just keep voting.
Me, i am not sure how much longer I will be around….i hear there’s a train a-comin’
God bless!
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JUSTANOTHEROPINION
Posted on December 1, 2012 at 11:50pmHe would rather I didn’t pray or worship the Lord on his dime? I would rather he looked into a dietary program before he worries about anything else. What an athiest pig!
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vox_populi
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:07amWhat an interesting and thoughtful addition to the discussion! The Blaze really is the best example of modern conservative intellectualism.
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The-Real-Enrico
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:12amSorry brother but your comment doesn’t seem very Christian. What are you mad about? I would agree with that we shouldn’t use his money for religious activities but that simple not the case.
Penn has the whole argument wrong with a wrong premise. I disagree with Penn’s militant atheism and false argument just as much as your hateful reaction.
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mharry860
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:18amVOX_POPULI, welcome to the new troll! Are you paid or in your mom’s basement?
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vox_populi
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:46amPlease, I’ve been around since Day One.
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The-Real-Enrico
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 1:12am@mharry860 Vox has been around forever. He’s just a militant atheist mostly only post religious articles. I will vouch vox and his negativity. He’s genuine.
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DLV
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 2:09amVox- Which begs the bloody question of why are you still here?
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Ditto Head
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 2:21am@VOX
Atheist liar.
“Day one” was late summer 2010.
You didn’t join up here until last January.
A full year and a half after “day one”.
Trivial, I know, but, liars have to be called on the carpet.
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vox_populi
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 5:14am“Vox has been around forever. He’s just a militant atheist mostly only post religious articles.”
Nonsense, I’m usually prowling around the economics articles. I’m only here on this post because I’m amused how viciously everyone is attacking a friend of Glenn Beck’s who dared to suggest that one religion not be placed in a privileged position above all others. I could be Jewish, for all you know.
“You didn’t join up here until last January. A full year and a half after ‘day one’”
I take it it didn’t occur to you I started off using a different handle?
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The-Real-Enrico
Posted on December 1, 2012 at 11:46pmPenn is totally missing the point and the argument.
First, Christians and Christmas doesn’t exclude anyone.
2nd, no one is asking for or wanting tax money to pay for religious holidays anything.
It’s about atheist trying to remove and bully anything that has to do with Christianity or religion every where.
But personally Christmas trees, decorations and even decorative nativity displays have nothing to do with the Christian holiday Christmas and is too often a distraction. We need to get back to the original intent and focus on whats important.
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encinom
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:11am“2nd, no one is asking for or wanting tax money to pay for religious holidays anything.”
Yeah you are, the Christian displays in public schools and buildings are on the tax payer’s dime. Keep them on pirvate property and not demand that the tax payers erect momuments to your god.
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vox_populi
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:16am“First, Christians and Christmas doesn’t exclude anyone.”
If the government puts up a bunch of signs, say outside city hall, that read ‘Merry Christmas’ or decorate an explicitly ‘Christmas tree,’ you are excluding Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, atheists, and everyone else.
“2nd, no one is asking for or wanting tax money to pay for religious holidays anything.”
Again, if your local city puts up a nativity scene on the courthouse lawn or whatever, it cost taxpayer dollars to do that (or even if they’re using an old one, it’s still affecting taxpayer property).
“It’s about atheist trying to remove and bully anything that has to do with Christianity or religion every where.”
Everywhere public; I don’t think anyone cares what you choose to celebrate privately. Try to understand the difference.
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The Third Archon
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:44am@VOX
I actually DO care what they do in private–I don’t think it should be ILLEGAL. But I do think their sincere religious beliefs are dangerous–vis-a-vis the fact that homosexuals STILL, in 2012, don’t have equal protection under the laws, and the fact that we STILL have to debate whether or not people have a right to abortion to prevent themselves from becoming parents against their will, and the fact that we STILL have to have debates about teaching BASIC SCIENTIFIC FACT, or using medically revolutionary technologies like stem-cells. They might not be out blowing **** up, but the religious “moderates” when all is said, done, and added up, have probably done more damage to human civilization than the handful of deaths caused by the extremists–more importantly, we RECOGNIZE the extremists as such. Moderates have airs of legitimacy and reasonability, despite the fact that they believe **** EVERY BIT AS ABSURD as the religions they reject.
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The-Real-Enrico
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 1:05am@vox_populi I do understand the difference buddy. But thanks for the condescension. Most of these issue like nativity scene displays are not or ever been funded or payed for by or with tax money.
Most are donated or payed for by the private individual who may work for the “public”/state. Now I could see your argument that you don’t a employee of the state displaying there religious stuff. But I would say if they are not using tax money for it and its not some reason (in bizzro land) proclaiming the government property is some religion’s property and is declaring a state religion then can express their selves freely as long as is it doesn’t in the way of there work or cost us money.
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Centurian
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 1:07am@Third Archon:
Let me see if I can clear a few things up:
Simply put: you, and others get angry with the ‘religious’ people for getting involved in your sexual orientations, and ability to sleep with whomever you choose. Your simple belief is that a grown adult should be able to do whatever they want, sexually, as long as it is between consenting adults.
Got that. Can follow that.
But then, you then turn around and demand we pay for the ‘outcome’ of these poor choices, such as the spread of sexually transmitted diseases, abortion, sex changes, sex hormone therapy, and contraception.
Which way you want it? If you want me out of your sexual choices, then fine: pay for your own medications for STD’s, pay for your own abortions, sex changes, sex hormone therapies, and contraception. While at it, you can take the numerous GLBT organizations that are being paid for on my tax dime and give it back to me, such as Dan Savage, who is President Obama’s Anti-Bully Czar.
If, on the other hand, I am to pay, through taxes, for these numerous programs that have infiltrated the school systems, colleges, universities, and various ‘business tolerance’ programs, then I should also the the right to curtail the causes of all this hubris, which is, namely, a persons sexual choice. If a group of people’s sexual choices is costing me more and more money, then why get mad when I complain?
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Centurian
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 1:17am@THIRD ARCHON:
You stated: “we STILL have to have debates about teaching BASIC SCIENTIFIC FACT, or using medically revolutionary technologies like stem-cells. They might not be out blowing **** up, but the religious “moderates” when all is said, done, and added up, have probably done more damage to human civilization than the handful of deaths caused by the extremists…”
You really, really want to state this? ‘Basis scientific fact’. Wow. Maybe you should be the one to do a little ‘fact checking’ on your own. You may be surprised how many doctors, professors, and scientists are Christians. Yet, amazingly, none are claiming the usage of blood letting, professing the Sun goes around the Earth, or doesn’t believe in the complexities of DNA.
For many lefties who believe Christians stand in the way of science, they hinge their whole argument on whether the person in question believes if the Earth in 10 thousand years old, or 4.6 billion.
May answer: who cares? Last time that I checked, my response to these inane questions doesn’t change the amount of fossil fuels on this planet, it doesn’t make the stock markets rise or fall, and it doesn’t cause a person to be ignored for medical treatment.
I am a strong proponent of scientific fact. In fact, I am a strong believer in the proven laws of physics and science. Note: I said LAW.
Last time I checked, many of the things that the Christians get lambasted about are over theories, not laws, and this is
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The Third Archon
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 1:23am“Simply put: you, and others get angry…consenting adults.”
(1) You assume they interfere in MY sexual orientation–they actually don’t. I’m a man and I prefer women. But that doesn’t mean I’m not offended by baseless stigmatization of people who DO prefer the same sex.
(2) I’d say I’m more angry about unsubstantiated beliefs (in this case religion) and its consequences in GENERAL–yes, it harms sexuality, but it ALSO harms other judgments too. I don’t presume to speak for anyone else.
“But then, …and contraception.”
Actually I never claimed any of that–it’s net beneficial for society when we have policies socializing the costs of SOME of those things (abortion and contraceptives notably), and the others should be allowed, and the costs and benefits discussed openly without pollution by religious nonsense. But other than that, I have no particularly strong feelings about those things.
“Which way…Anti-Bully Czar.”
A false dilemma if there ever was one–see above.
“If, on the other hand…when I complain?”
You can try, but you will not succeed for long. Moreover, you don’t have any real morally unique argument to stand upon–I’m compelled to pay taxes for a vastly excessive and wasteful military budget, to pay for pro-capitalist policies, and a whole host of things I’d object to. That doesn’t mean I have any more right other than those afforded through the democratic process to stop such things.
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The Third Archon
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 1:33amMoreover, if you’d like to have a smaller tax burden you should FAVOR policies socializing the costs of abortion and contraception for all–you end up paying FAR more in the end anyway when unwanted children end up in prison, or welfare, or both. And if you say “well abstinence would fix that” I will laugh my ASS off at you, because GUESS WHAT–we’ve been teaching that **** for decades, and GUESS HOW USEFUL IT’S BEEN? Did you guess NOT AT ALL? Because that’s how much it’s reduced teen pregnancy rates.
“You really…of DNA.”
No actually, I wouldn’t be surprised by that. I’m well aware of how many otherwise intelligent people by into religion–doesn’t make it AN IOTA MORE TRUE just because its managed to convince some competent scientists of its claims. Also, most of THEM aren’t your average fundamentalist bible thumper–as YOU YOURSELF note. THESE aren’t the kind of people voting for the policies I’m complaining about–those are more of your average Glenn Beck fan.
“For many…4.6 billion.”
Christians don’t stand in the way of science–CHRISTIANITY does, and what it convinces otherwise reasonable people to do. Now, yes, IN SPITE of Christianity, many Christians DO embrace intelligence and rationalism, become scientists, reject the more literalist and fundamentalist elements of their religion, and contribute to science, dragging Christianity kicking and screaming into the modern era.
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The Third Archon
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 1:39am“May answer…medical treatment.”
Yes, well unfortunately believing things that are ALMOST CERTAINLY FALSE does have consequence, whether you appreciate them or not. It causes people to protest, and attempt to stop, OTHER people from teaching things that ARE almost certainly true, like the age of the Earth, the geological, astronomical, and cosmological evidence to support this, etc. to people who DON’T share the sensitivity of theists to the TRUTH. And you know what that does? That makes us collectively stupider. It makes our national culture not value the pursuit of science as much. It makes our achievement in science, math, and other academic subjects slip. THAT’S just a few of the harms. Not to mention, if you actually want to GO INTO geology or astronomy, or some other subject where that knowledge MATTERS, it makes it damn near impossible.
“I am a strong proponent of scientific fact. In fact, I am a strong believer in the proven laws of physics and science. Note: I said LAW.
Last time I checked, many of the things that the Christians get lambasted about are over theories, not laws, and this is”
A law describes an observed physical relationship–a theory is the BEST available scientific explanation given the evidence of the REASON for that relationship. If you have a problem with “scientific theory” then you have a problem with SCIENCE, because there’s nothing higher in authority in science than the theories it comes up with.
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SacredHonor1776
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 7:42amPoint of note, in general the ‘government’ doesn’t necessarily put up christmas signs, or trees, or decorations in front of government buildings.
Actually its usually done by individual officials or civil cervants, clerks, sometimes by third party groups who donated the decorations, etc… Now are they using tax dollers to put up those decorations (this is potentially questionable use of the public funds)? or by charitable donations by groups wanting decorations? or simply by festive employees of the government who like to celebrate on there own ‘free exercise’.
For example the decorations in the white house are often made by donations by different groups. Thus you get things like the “Mao-Obama’ related tree decorations.
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LIBSALWAYSLIE
Posted on December 3, 2012 at 7:54amENCINOM, I expect ignorance and stupidity from you, and you never disappoint! It costs the taxpayers NOTHING to put a display in a public place, the costs are covered by private citizens. Good try, but as always, you fail.
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TexasKnight
Posted on December 1, 2012 at 11:43pmI find Penn & Teller funny and often make me think.
As we enter the Christmas season, please remember what the constitution actually says.
Also remember the reason for the season.
I have a nice birthday cake as our Christmas lawn decoration.
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LeadNotFollow
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:35am.
Every December 25th, in the center of our dining table, we place a Birthday Card wishing Jesus a Very Happy Birthday.
I like your idea too. I think we will try the Birthday Cake for Jesus, on our front lawn.
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oicu814me2
Posted on December 1, 2012 at 11:41pmAnd what does Teller have to say about this?
Oh, never mind..
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dmforman
Posted on December 1, 2012 at 11:41pmMerry Christmas Everyone!!!! Refuse to say Happy Holidays!!! I wish my Jewish friends Happy Hanukkah. I refuse to celebrate Kwanza.
Christmas is the celebration of Jesus’ birth! It’s not about stuff or celebrating America.
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The-Real-Enrico
Posted on December 1, 2012 at 11:51pmYep. I don’t care if the atheist want to say happy holiday. I always respond with “Merry Christmas” so it doesn’t bother me much.
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Max jones
Posted on December 1, 2012 at 11:58pmI don’t want to start an argument, but the 25th of december is closer to Jesus’s ‘conception. His birthdate is around the 19th of september. The december date was an attempt ,by the catholic church, to transform a pagan celebration, so the heathen Europeans would bring donations to the church.
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Michael
Posted on December 1, 2012 at 11:33pmI can’t say that I ever heard of any Athiest turned down or pushed away from any religious service that they wanted to attend. This is including Christmas celebrations. People are trying to make a big issue of this and it is the Athiests that are doing the condemning and forcing Christians not to use certain phrases and the typical sayings of Christmas. If a nonbeliever ever said Merry Christmas to me I would return the salute with a very Merry Christmas to you and may God bless you. They don’t have to accept it but I would have certainly felt ok about it. God Bless America.
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Chromo200
Posted on December 1, 2012 at 11:32pmSo I have to appease others. I have to give in while the non Christians don’t believe to do be tolerant of my beliefs or display of my beliefs. It offends them that I display a cross on my car or lapel . It is OK to insult me by putting a crucifix in a mason jar full of urine, and he support’s this as Freedom of Speech.
So he does want “I’d rather you didn’t do it on my dime”. SO what about my dime. I don’t want my dime to go to islamist, to corrupt african countries, to corrupt mayors, to pay for lazy slack a$$es who don’t want to work. I don’t want my dime to be given to worthless ventures like Solyndra, or Volt.
Jillette s full of it buffalo chips…
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TexasKnight
Posted on December 1, 2012 at 11:45pmAnd remember, that cross in urine was also on our dime.
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The-Real-Enrico
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:01am@1_Smoot_Tall I’m a 100% with ya brother but on that same note Mr. Jillette is a Libertarian and also doesn’t support the above mentioned wasteful spending.
Penn isn’t some progressive moron who hates our founding or even our principles(which are Christian)
he is just sadly a militant atheist.
I don’t always agree with Penn but usually I can respect him. He is dead wrong on this one though.
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The Third Archon
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:12am“Penn isn’t some progressive moron who hates our founding or even our principles(which are Christian)”
LOL–”our principles?” Speak for yourself!
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Kupo
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:32am“I don’t want my dime to go to islamist, to corrupt african countries, to corrupt mayors, to pay for lazy slack a$$es who don’t want to work. I don’t want my dime to be given to worthless ventures like Solyndra, or Volt.”
Hey moron, Penn doesn’t want his dime to go towards any of that crap either. Get a clue.
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The-Real-Enrico
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:40am@The Third Archon I was and for other actual practicing Christians. I seriously don’t know what you find funny other than maybe a attempt to agitate.
I don’t about your views other than you are a militant atheist. But Penn is a libertarian which view line up Christian views like Christian Rand Paul or his father Ron.
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The Third Archon
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 1:11amI’m pointing out that Christians don’t speak for Americans, nor is America a “Christian nation” any more than it is a “white female brown-eyed nation.” In fact, we were the FIRST secular nation, established WITHOUT a commingling of religion and politics. And for good reason–no one can agree on WHOSE religion, if any, should be commingled and to what extent.
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Centurian
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 1:32am@THE THIRD ARCHON:
As someone who has taught political science and history on the university level, I see numerous students who believe such as you, that, namely, the United States is a secular country, and not established on religion.
I would suggest that you pick up numerous writings from many of our Founding Fathers, such as Washington, Franklin, Penn, Monroe, Adams, and Jefferson. What you read may surprise you.
The FF (Founding Fathers) truly believed that Christianity would always be the main religion of the new nation. But the main concern was over the possibility of one form of Christianity being given preference over another, such as Lutheranism over Protestantism. The FF saw how England had given preference to one from of Christianity over another, and the disastrous results thereof, such as the wars between Protestants and Catholics.
But to exclude religion from government? Not at all. In fact, many professed for men of strong moral conviction, men of sound Christian ideals, to be placed in political office.
Government was to stay out of the affairs of religion; but religion was to be strongly in the affairs of government.
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The Third Archon
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 1:50am“As someone who has taught political science and history on the university level, I see numerous students who believe such as you, that, namely, the United States is a secular country, and not established on religion.”
Just because many founders called themselves “Christians” doesn’t make America or its laws “founded on Christianity.” The same could be said of the lip-service many of them (perhaps earnestly) offered Christianity. If you actually understand the philosophical climate of the time, you can see clearly the stamp of Enlightenment philosophy, the free-thought movement, the ideas of transcendentalism and deism, upon the major thinkers of the founders.
“I would…surprise you.”
It wouldn’t–I know they were a mix of very unusual (for their time, and probably today) Christians and deists informed by Enlightenment thought. I HAVE read a lot of their writings–I majored in political science and philosophy, studied history out of personal interest, and am in the profession of law.
“The FF…and Catholics.”
Yeah, that was a strong motivation for them–doesn’t matter today, doesn’t make secularism NOT the correct answer whether they thought so or not.
“But to…political office.”
Really?! Explain Article VI, Paragraph 3 of the U.S. Constitution which explicitly PROHIBITS any religious qualification for office. Even if you are correct, all that proves is that the founders were WRONG.
“Government was…of government.”
They got that wron
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The-Real-Enrico
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 2:57am@The Third Archon
“But to…political office.”
Really?! Explain Article VI, Paragraph 3 of the U.S. Constitution which explicitly PROHIBITS any religious qualification for office. Even if you are correct, all that proves is that the founders were WRONG.
The purpose of Article VI, Paragraph 3 is explained with the same as above. They didn’t want religious qualifications to run for office. Example- A state requiring a person to be Catholic to run for public office. This is very simple.
But seriously thank for being intellectually honest and simply disagreeing with the founding and the constitution rather than twisting based on a lie. Christians like myself(and the founders) believe theocracies are evil. Freedom of expression ether it be religious or non-religious.
The state is not required to be atheist nor religious. It just can’t establish a state religion. For some reason many people with your view/belief want to establish atheism as the state religion/non-religion.
Like my comment earlier our Constitution is based on our (common Christian) principles/values not theology.
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jalice
Posted on December 3, 2012 at 1:53amTo all atheists:
In all due respect- why not create a holiday to celebrate your beliefs, or lack thereof?
I am fine if you want to hang ” we don’t believe in any gods” in a park or bus or tv ads, or design atheism toys or whatever. While I do not agree with you, I respect your right to be anti-religion and to announce it to whomever you want. Our other religions should and do have the same rights.
Why should Chritians not have the same consideration? Our Godly beliefs just happen to be more prevalent in USA (for now); why are you angry that I like to celebrate my beliefs, both cultural and spiritual? It seems as tho new holidays are created fairly easily these days and with the socially PC attitude you would get all the support you need. I won’t offend you, you don’t offend us. Why do people have to denigrate others because they can? That’s our freedom of speech at work…
everybody needs to get over the bashing and focus on what’s important to you,
regardless of your belief system, time’s a wasting.
This country was founded on Judeao-Christian principles and so it is. Maybe someday if all the secular folks hang around long enough, their views will impact the political landscape in the majority. For now, just keep voting.
Me, i am not sure how much longer I will be around….i hear there’s a train a-comin’
God bless!
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SCREW-WINDOWS
Posted on December 1, 2012 at 11:31pm“There is no such thing as a dirty word. Nor is there a word so powerful, that it’s going to send the listener to the lake of fire upon hearing it.”
― Frank Zappa
And that goes for the word Christmas also.
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jman-6
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:13amThere is a name above all names and that is my Lord and Savior JESUS CHRIST!! GOD BLESS
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1_Smoot_Tall
Posted on December 1, 2012 at 11:22pmDid you ever notice that atheists cannot prove love exists yet they profess to love their families?
More importantly, atheists do not believe in an afterlife. So they think their Earth-time is all they will get, right? So why do they waste so much of it trying to destroy religion and offend the religious including here on the Blaze?
I think they actually have the same healthy degree of doubt/faith that goes with all belief systems. But, unlike the faithful, they get trapped in a cycle of escalation as they try harder and harder to convince others (in order to feel secure in their beliefs) that their lack of faith can be justified and proven if only enough people come along and sink with them.
Or they are emissaries/useful idiots of the Adversary and are trying to destroy The One True God out of service to the god of their choosing.
Pray for them but do not give in to them for their way leads to destruction.
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on December 1, 2012 at 11:39pmNo, I like healthy discussions. I like discussing ideas.
I also don’t think you’re going to suffer an eternity of torture for not agreeing with me.
It is religion who actively has to go out and bug people at home and talk 24/7 about their religion.
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Max jones
Posted on December 1, 2012 at 11:49pmSatan has his ‘elect’ just as YHVH does….And they are zealous and intent on doing harm to Christians and our ‘family’. Go to the manuscripts or your concordance and look up “kenites”.
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The Third Archon
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:01am“Or they are emissaries/useful idiots of the Adversary and are trying to destroy The One True God out of service to the god of their choosing.”
So…they are working for an entity they don’t believe in…to destroy an entity they don’t believe in…yeah that makes tons of sense…
It is true that we would be quite happy to see the BELIEF in these fantasies disappear, but most of us are about as convinced that they are true, and worry about them being true, about as much as you worry about or believe the Greek gods are actually real, or the Egyptian ones, or Lord Xenu of Scientology.
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The Third Archon
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:11am“Did you ever notice that atheists cannot prove love exists yet they profess to love their families?”
What the hell are you TALKING about? Clearly you’ve never even made a cursory examination of the study of neurobiology.
“More importantly, atheists do not believe in an afterlife.”
Damn straight for the most part (technically, “atheist” just means lack of belief in gods, and there are religions without gods that include afterlives, so not ALL atheists believe that, but in the sense you are clearly implying, and in the self-identifying use of the term, yeah that’s a general rule).
“So they think their Earth-time is all they will get, right?”
That’s right–we also think its all the time YOU will get too.
“So why do they waste so much of it trying to destroy religion and offend the religious including here on the Blaze?”
Well, it’s quite simply–theists, despite believing they get a second, much longer and more awesome, life ALSO muck about in THIS one, the only one we KNOW we get (and the only one atheists are convinced we get), ruining it for the rest of us with their absurd nonsense which they feel the compulsion, apparently, to base INSANE public policy upon. This distorts the value of TANGIBLE things in the REAL world, that we KNOW exists, by placing value on unproven speculative phantasms. It clouds moral judgment, results in gratuitous suffering, and stigmatizes useful and enjoyable things for no reason–understand the difficulty we’re having?
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Max jones
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:16amMODERATIONISBEST…..Hey there, my stubborn friend. Christians these days are so ‘enthused’ with the panorama of prophecy being fulfilled, that we spend hours upon hours each day studying, looking for subtleties and nuances in the scriptures. Hoping to find ways of getting through to people just like you….decent, intelligent, regular people who, as yet, have not found a true love in the bible. We won’t quit. Won’t tire. We will never give up on you. Knowing that your intellect is capable of understanding, as we understand. And your heart has the capacity to believe, as we do.
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jrc99
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:33am“More importantly, atheists do not believe in an afterlife. So they think their Earth-time is all they will get, right? So why do they waste so much of it trying to destroy religion and offend the religious including here on the Blaze?”
I came to the conclusion to that answer. Atheists fear accountability. I even fear accountability but unlike atheists I work on myself instead of bashing others who don’t think like me.
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Centurian
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:46am@Moderation:
You stated: “It is religion who actively has to go out and bug people at home and talk 24/7 about their religion.”
How ironic: When groups like the FFRF (Freedom From Religion Foundation) and other atheist organizations go way out of their way to suppress or ban any form of public religious display, such as going all the way to Texas to demand that cheerleaders stop displaying Bible verses on signs, when the cheerleaders and people at the games are either okay with it, or (like the cheerleaders and others) demand that it stays, I would say the FFRF “actively has to go out and bug people at home and talk 24/7 about their religion.”
I have had to ‘deal’ with activist liberals who are strongly atheist. All they do is whine, complain about how other people are in the way of their religious liberties, and then rant about anarchy.
Of course, they tend to claim that they are the ‘enlightened ones’ on life, diversity, love, hate, and economics. Usually, I find them to be annoying morons.
Please tell me that you’re not like this…
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U4eeeahhh
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 4:59amSmoot, “Love”, intense psychological bonding of family units can be examined and measured and its effects demonstrated. Examples: changes in brain wave patterns can be diagnosed and related to pleasures derived from “family” associations and changes in body chemistry such as the four neurochemicals that cause happiness: endorphins, dopamine, oxytocin and serotonin can be analyzed in response to family situations.. Familial bonding, “Love”, can be explained rationally, logically and scientifically. So thus I accept that “Love” exists.
As an Atheist I really & truly do not care what you believe personally but when that belief becomes the rational behind a secular law then religion leaves the realm of personal and becomes public and thereby offends the non-believer. Public property displays of any iconography related to a religion should be inappropriate to all. To the believer it is a co-oping of their sacred for a secular purpose and to the non-believer for invading the secular space with the sacred. I’ve always thought that the original word on the separation of church & state came from your own legends, didn’t Jesus say, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s”? Maybe that should be interpreted to mean in a modern sense one should leave the matters of the State [as in the secular citizenry] to the State and keep the Church in to it’s own?
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DLV
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:42pmThe-Real- I would agree with you except where you said theocracies are evil part. Yes, Iran is a sort of theocracy and they are evil but old Israel was as well and they were following god. Point being if you have a direct link to god and he is actually doing the commanding a theocracy is good. When god finally takes over that will be a theocracy I assume you wont think it’s evil then right?
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JungleTrump
Posted on December 1, 2012 at 11:20pmChristians are accepting of all people. We don’t turn people away. If you find someone who says they are Christian, and seek to exclude anyone….well they are not really Christian. I’m a big fan of Penn but on this topic I have to disagree. God loves everyone. I fail to see any harm in that. Merry Christmas everyone! One December 25th we celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ our lord and Savior.
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Max jones
Posted on December 1, 2012 at 11:40pmJUNGLETRUMP …I disagree vehemently. Without faithful discernment you will get into trouble in these times….Read the book of Jude…..its the little one right before Revelation.
There are definitely evil people and other entities out there trying to get close to you and me to destroy us if they can….and they will use any and all devices and subterfuge to accomplish that.
The war on Christianity IS real and actual. And for good reason: We are the last of the bible bangin’ scripture believin’, TRUTH lovers on the planet….The last obstacle to world domination.
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on December 1, 2012 at 11:41pmGod loves everyone, except those that don’t love him back, then you can go to hell for eternity.
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Git-R-Done
Posted on December 1, 2012 at 11:43pmModeration – Those are God’s standards and love is a two way street. Why should God accept people into his kingdom who don’t love him?
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vox_populi
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:19am“God loves everyone, except those that don’t love him back, then you can go to hell for eternity.”
Why is God such a fascist?
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:36am@VOX_POPULI
It’s hilarious for a country that hates monarchies and is a nation not of kings but of of a republic and democracy…..yet they believe in a being where there is no questioning his authority. There is no separation of powers, there is no appeal.
With the Christian God, we are BORN worthy of an eternal torture, that he gifted us with and we must then accept a human sacrifice to avoid a torture.
So instead of “innocent until proven guilty” like our law says, with the Christian God it’s “born guilty” and he can convict us of thought crime.
The Christian God is a tyrannical, power obsessed raging psychopath who DEMANDS our love and worship.
It’s such a hilarious contradiction that we are a nation of laws, separation of powers, yet these nutjobs worship a monarch who has to answer to no one.
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The Third Archon
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 12:39am““God loves everyone, except those that don’t love him back, then you can go to hell for eternity.”
Why is God such a fascist?”"
Hmm…probably because It was molested as a child.
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ilumino
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 3:07am@third archon
You are probably the only person laughing at your joke since only someone who thinks child molestation is a laughing matter, or maybe a child molester, would make a joke about it. Nice.
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dissentnow
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 8:10am“Christians are accepting of all people. We don’t turn people away”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA……
No, but seriously…..
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA……
That statement is just as silly as when people say that “Islam is a religion of peace. No real Muslim would ever support violence”.
Not all Christians are hateful, but some are. Not all Muslims fly planes into buildings, but some do. Not all Atheists are arrogant, hateful bigots, but some are.
Some Christians ( not all, but some ) DO turn people away. Just like some Muslims really do fly planes into buildings or throw acid in the faces of little girls.
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JungleTrump
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 11:38amMAX. Christians have nothing to fear. We walk in His light and live by His example. This is His gift to us. No one should fear us nor shall we live in fear. We hold the beacons of light, it is not up to us who chooses to walk in darkness, We must remain holding the beacon to help those who voluntarily wish to step out of their darkness. We do not judge anyone. In the face of hate we return with open arms. March on in His light my brother for He is with you and will guide you.
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LeadNotFollow
Posted on December 1, 2012 at 11:13pm.
Can’t stand Atheist Penn or his creepy little partner Teller.
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tnman65
Posted on December 1, 2012 at 11:36pmMe either. And just why the hell does he think people care about his opinion anyway. He’s just another self important idiot in the entertainment industry.
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JACKTHETOAD
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 2:32amI like them both, but prefer Teller. He likes knives.
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dissentnow
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 8:28am“And just why the hell does he think people care about his opinion anyway. He’s just another self important idiot in the entertainment industry”
For the same reason that people care about what Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh have to say. Entertainment!
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RobbieTLHughie
Posted on December 2, 2012 at 8:44amlol But who do you know and respect who ‘knows what he’s talking about’, because in his day George Washington was accused of the same thing.
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