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Does Washington Want to Go Over the ‘Fiscal Cliff’?

Dec. 5, 2012 12:16pm Becket Adams

Although he acknowledges that going over the “fiscal cliff” would plunge the U.S. into recession, former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean on Tuesday said that it’s the only way to bring “certainty” to Wall Street and the business community.

“No matter what people said during the election, you cannot solve this deficit problem without everybody paying more taxes. Not just rich people,” Dean told CNBC’s “Squawk Box” on Tuesday.

Dean’s main thesis is that the pros of going over the cliff outweigh the cons of another recession.

“The economy is much stronger than it was three years ago. Do I think this is painless? Absolutely not,” he said. “Wall Street, who’s moaning and groaning about this, is going to do much better … Certainty is critical for the business community.”

Dean claims that the worst thing President Obama and Congress can do — worse than sending us over the cliff — is apply a temporary fix to the nation’s financial crisis.

“My fear is [Obama and Republicans] kick the can down the road. They’ll get half the deficit reduction and then half of that will be funny money and accounting gimmicks,” he said.

“You’ll be right back here in 6 or 8 months,” said Dean. “I say take the medicine now and everyone will have certainty,” he added.

Meanwhile, the GOP’s counteroffer to President Obama’s “laughable” opening bid has been flat-out rejected.

And rather than sit down with Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) and finally get a budget deal hammered out, the White House on Tuesday hosted an array of MSNBC personalities and progressives from the Washington Post, the Daily Kos, and the Huffington Post for a discussion on (of all things) the “fiscal cliff.”

Exit Question: Considering the fact that the deadline to avoid the cliff is nearly here and zero progress has been made in negotiating a budget deal, do you get the feeling that Dean isn’t alone in thinking going over the cliff is an acceptable course of action?

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Comments (23)

Mike76
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:37am
I never thought I’d find myself agreeing with Howard Dean, but he’s right about a lot of this. Frankly, the fiscal cliff would have the effect of taking us back to the pre-Bush spending and tax rates – that’s all that would happen. Let’s go over. Piece-milling together a few tax increases here and insignificant spending cuts there will not fix our problem. This country has got to come to terms with the reality that we ask our government to do far too many things it shouldn’t be in the business of doing. Until that problem is solved, nothing will change. The entire structure of how we tax and what we tax needs to be rethought. The Fed’s interference in markets has got to be stopped. Our entire approach to foreign policy must be reworked. And finally, people have got to stop acting like it’s the government’s job to raise them. Send us over the cliff. Maybe a few Libs will break their necks on the way down.

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qz2026
Posted on December 5, 2012 at 7:27pm
Of course they want to go over the cliff. Why? Because there is no such thing as a fiscal cliff. If negotiations fail… Well, taxes go up on everyone (except the 49%, that is). The brunt will be on those earning more than $200K ($250K if married) because they are getting wacked with new taxes from Obamacare as well. And who said that $200K per year in earnings makes one rich anyway? It’s not the millionaires and billionaires that will suffer. It’s any business that grosses over $200K per year – those companies that do the most hiring in this country. Oh yeah, our military will be decimated but who cares about the military? So cliff? More like a snowball rolling down a hill – it will get worse and worse and worse until your money is worth nothing. But what people should really be watching is the interest rates. The FED cannot hold interest rates down for ever. Mother nature – the market simply won’t let that happen. And when the rates begin increasing, just a little – say 2-3% – we are in a huge, huge WOS. That’s all it will take to crash the financial markets that are leveraged hundreds and hundreds of times in such things as Credit Default Swaps and other worthless paper investments. When that happens, everything ends and I mean everything. One person defined this as a civilizational ending scenario that, not only the U.S. has gotten us into but entire world is guilty. This, my friends, is the cliff you should worry about. Fiscal Cliff – a distractio

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Thornyrose13
Posted on December 5, 2012 at 7:21pm
well, Dean got it partly right anyways. Now is the time to solve the problem, not keep putting patches on it and hobbling along. I also agree with most of the posters who point out the spending issue has to be tackled first, not the revenue generation.
As for trying to dodge taxes, remember. Part of Obamacare is the hiring of thousands of new IRS agents. These soon to be thugs are going to be hired with the intent of shaking down as many people as possible. I wouldn’t put it past the administration to eventually award the agents “bounties”, such as 1% of all the extra income they generate. It’s an old, tried and true tactic throughout history, and one that makes the agents intent on squeezing every penny out of people, not trying to get honest and reasonable payments from people.

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fastfacts
Posted on December 5, 2012 at 6:19pm
According to MSNBC’s Matthews, good politicians don’t want the US to go over the cliff ( http://www.thedailycandidate.com/video/2012/dec/matthews_good_politicians.html ) unlike Obama who wants everyone’s taxes to be raised.

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rickc34
Posted on December 5, 2012 at 5:40pm
If we go over the cliff and all the tax breaks end Obama will never give the middle class a break like Bush did. He will take the tax money and run.

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wolverine
Posted on December 5, 2012 at 5:04pm
One way to get more revenue is to eliminate the tax deduction for giving money to Universities and their foot ball teams

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- rickc34
  Posted on December 5, 2012 at 5:35pm
  Just stop giving to the government. If your employeer is not giving you benefits then become an independent contractor and get paid 100% and pay your own taxes or not.
  
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DougHuffman
Posted on December 5, 2012 at 4:56pm
Better the ‘Fiscal Cliff’ pill now, bitter though it may be, better now than a Chinese suppository administered by The Jerk Obama’s thugs at the point of a bayonet-sword-pen is contract writing.

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Ironworker3366
Posted on December 5, 2012 at 3:54pm
Start a movment…. if they cant produce and agree to a budget, they shouln’t gat any tax from the public sector. We should refuse to pay any taxes until we know what it will be spent on!! This isn’t and open ended Credit Card.

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bengar2001
Posted on December 5, 2012 at 3:53pm
I think that our egotistical president wants to see the Bush tax cuts end so that he can reinstate them, with revisions of course, under his name the “Obama tax cuts”. He seems to love it when people call the affordable health care act “Obamacare”….

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Ironworker3366
Posted on December 5, 2012 at 3:50pm
tax everyone in the nation on what we spend not what we earn, %50 on every non-citizen and stop giving away money to the usless and lazy. Will work for food is a good thing!~ Maybe we can get some progress out of the FAT BASTARTDS IN THE CONGRESS!!

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CWPrequired
Posted on December 5, 2012 at 3:49pm
I think we should start a movement for everyone to change the number of dependents on our withholding allowances to like 10-20 this Jan and start reducing the “revenue” ourselves. See what happens in the next 10-12 months.

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- TheBurningTruth
  Posted on December 5, 2012 at 4:44pm
  Last I heard the max “safe” number was 11. Starting at 12 dependents the IRS starts looking into it. Besides, at the end of the year, you’ll either have to try and maintain the lie (fraud) or have a significant penalty for underpayment when the real tax is reconciled.
  
  To make your plan work, a huge number of filers would have to be involved so that politically the late penalty would be waived. Of course, it would be waived for those below a certain income, and those above that level would get screwed again.
  
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Ironworker3366
Posted on December 5, 2012 at 3:47pm
They have know about this for 18 months…… If I thought my employees woud procrastinate for 18 months on something that could throw my business in to a finantial down turn they would have been Fired already. Yes I’m a blood thirsty conservative! Heads need to roll Fire Every one of them starting with Obama!

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M40-A1
Posted on December 5, 2012 at 3:14pm
I read the posts here and shake my head. Dream on if you think the Washington Elitists are going to suddenly wake up. We need a taxpayer revolt, not more whining and complaining. Where is the Tea Party on that………..crickets chirping………

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jungle J
Posted on December 5, 2012 at 3:07pm
Why would any sane person want to pay more taxes when they know that those in charge are mentally ill and will continue to over spend someone else s money…get real you few sane that are left.

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cessna152
Posted on December 5, 2012 at 3:01pm
We will regardless unless the system is reset like it does before every great awakening. However, before it does, get ready for the blame to fall on the Tea party, conservatism and evil (rich…anyone making over $60k) white guy.

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girlnurse
Posted on December 5, 2012 at 2:54pm
More taxes my arse! STARVE the Beast is the ONLY way we will ever get back to any kind of fiscal sanity!

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Witness1974
Posted on December 5, 2012 at 2:51pm
I have concluded that the name of George Washington, a fine man, should no longer be used in connection with that brood of vipers that now inhabit the District of Columbia. Perhaps it is even better to refer to it as “the district.” There is no red-light district in all the world inhabited by so many common, seditious, and vicious whores as that district situated along the Potomac. It was of more use to the nation when it was nothing more than swamp.

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- Cavallo
  Posted on December 5, 2012 at 3:52pm
  Real whore are far more honest and virtuous.
  
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- Witness1974
  Posted on December 5, 2012 at 4:04pm
  Cavallo–I agree. I was hoping that those sentiments were evident in what I wrote. My appologies to all those who trade sex for money.
  
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pap pap
Posted on December 5, 2012 at 2:38pm
No matter how many taxes are paid in it will be spent and not used against the deficit. The spending needs cut now not over 10 years or promises in the future. I don’t thnk any congressman should be paid if they can’t come up with something reasonable (read serious spending cuts). This is total BS.

Taking more money out of the economy only stifles growth which is what is needed to broaden the base. Why is it that we have only a few congressmen that ever had Econ101? Obviouly our electorate is made up of over 50% not ever having Econ101.

More taxes just means more government which means more taxes which means more government…. Reminds me of the commercial of the guy in an elevator spinning around saying he needs more coke so he can work longer and harder so he can get more done so he can buy more coke . . .

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- qz2026
  Posted on December 5, 2012 at 7:29pm
  Yeah, it sure makes a lot of sense to raise taxes now and “promise” to decrease spending over the next 10-20 years. Who are these fools think they are talking to? Well, not us I guess. Perhaps the 49% who don’t have the common sense to walk in from the rain.
  
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