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Faith

10 Stupid Things Christian Pastors Should Never Do

Dec. 6, 2012 12:59pm Billy Hallowell

Photo Credit: Shutterstock.com

Christian pastors are known for their kindness, care for their congregations and inspirational faith messages. While goodness is expected from these coveted individuals, controversy and scandal, even among men and women of faith, isn’t infrequent.

Infidelity, drug and substance abuse, monetary mismanagement — the list goes on. Unfortunately, famous and infamous cases have exposed the sometimes-improper activities participated in by religious leaders. (it is, of course, important to know that the vast majority of faith leaders do not engage in such violations).

On Charisma News, J. Lee Grady published a piece offering advice for ministers and faith leaders. “If you aspire to ministry, don’t be stupid,” he wrote in the lede, going out to highlight 10 “pitfalls” that should be avoided. Grady encouraged pastors to “avoid spiritual stupidity” and to make good and Godly choices.

While some of the items he highlighted seem like common sense, the frequency with which faith leaders fail to comply makes each relevant and worth sharing. So, here they are:

1. Take illegal drugs. I know people who never got complete deliverance from their drug habit—and then when the pressures of ministry grew intense they turned to illegal substances to escape. That’s stupid! If you aren’t in control of your actions 100 percent of the time, you have no business in the ministry.

2. Reject accountability. The Lone Ranger may have been a great comic book hero, but isolation doesn’t work in real life. Lack of accountability is stupid! If you don’t answer to people smarter than you, you are an accident waiting to happen—and you’re going to hurt God’s people. You have no right to be in authority if you are not under authority.

3. Beat or abuse your wife. The Bible says in 1 Peter 3:7 that God will not listen to your prayers if you mistreat your wife. If you are an abuser (and even if you are a master at hiding your sin from others), the Lord will oppose you until you seek help.

4. Surround yourself with adoring fans. Years ago, fallen PTL founder Jim Bakker said his biggest mistake was planting “yes men” around him instead of people who had the guts to challenge his bad decisions. If you aren’t willing to invite input—including criticism—from your followers, you are a weak leader headed for disaster.

5. Fabricate spiritual gifts to impress others. In our movement there’s a lot of pressure to produce the sensational in order to keep people entertained. But if you stoop so low as to fake a healing, conjure up a false prophecy or push someone to the floor, the Holy Spirit will step aside and let you run the sideshow without His power. It’s stupid to mix strange fire and risk offending God!

Read the remaining five reasons over at Charisma News.

The image of the church is property of Shutterstock.com.

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Comments (157)

GuruMeditation
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:34pm
Uh… I think Moses carried those 10 things on stone quite a while back.

So what were you saying again?

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- StepDale
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:25pm
  Yes, but Jesus will engrave them on your heart and a true believer will be changed not by adherence to some rules, but from a change in nature. God bless you.
  
  Report this comment
SciPro
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:03pm
Anyway .. it is the loss of moral values, as taught By God, that people fail, nations fail, and America is failing. All in our past history’s, where many have fallen … you would think an intelligent person would learn from history … And that’s why the ‘Bible’ and other scripture is written, it’s a reminder of why past great nations have risen and then fell to oblivion. just saying … ahhh much can said and feelings expressed about how important it is to keep the inward part of our cup (nation) clean. Most of us don’t have the power to do anything .. but vote and pray … sheesh

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1776freedomofspeech
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:02pm
Everyone is guilty of sin. Pastors must endeavor to resist sin, but they are not “sin free” by nature. Each will fail or fall is his or her own way, but the promise of our Christ is that each can be redeemed. Have good courage and strengthen your faith. The Father knows and Jesus is watching.

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Dexter Alarius
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:00pm
“…goodness is expected from these coveted individuals…”

“Coveted individuals”? Whoever wrote this article doesn’t know what ‘coveted’ means.
Respected, honored, valued… there’s a lot of words you could have used there, but ‘coveted’ is not one of them.

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SciPro
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:51pm
Hmmmm … Lots of hot air being released, let me release mine. Those who live two of the greatest commandments ever given IE: Love God with all your might, mind, and strength, .. And Love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang ALL the laws of God and the Prophets words that make up much of scripture, will never have fault in God’s presence … just saying … listing what a man should do is really only part of the “path” God has pointed out to man, to get back into His presence … again .. just saying .. this is what I have learned..

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pdumar
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:43pm
1. True for anybody in this day of age.
2. Unlike Greek and Roman mythology and other ancient historical works, the New Testament was written during the lifetime of many the eye witnesses of Jesus Christ who died not for what they believed but what they claimed to have witnessed. The Bible does not only consist of theological “opinion” but it contains history that even secular archaeologists and historians use to explore a deeper context to their studies.
3. Where in the United States Constitution do you find tax exemption for religious and charitable institutions unconstitutional?
4. Where’s point number 4?
5. Christians question the Bible consistently, and after careful study their faith usually grows stronger. Have you extensively studied the Bible?
6. Not all atheists believe in a woman’s right to choose either.
7. There are quite a few homosexual Christians attending my church right now.
8. Have you seen Christians living in impoverished third world countries that are hostile to Christianity. They are some of the most inspiring and loving people you’ll ever meet.
9. Another absolute statement. See point 8.
10. The first two scientific discoveries were discovered by devout Christians. Christians do believe in micro-evolution. Unfortunately there is no credible scientific evidence in the fossil record to prove macro-evolution, hence the “theory” of evolution.

There are intelligent and reasonable people who do believe in Christianity. Don’t sim

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TROLLMONGER
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:39pm
shiloh,

Thats all you got? A rebut about a grammatical error? Its shows how weak your counter argument is…LOL!

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shiloh1966
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:25pm
11. Never post before checking your spelling. It is spelled “religious” not “religeous”.

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TROLLMONGER
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:24pm
faith,

Your right. Pastors shouldnt do that either considering how biased their religion is…LOL!

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Mapache
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:17pm
A profoundly stupid article. I would think most people aspiring to be of good moral character would espouse good values and avoid bad things as well as ‘shenanigans and goings on.’

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- kryptonite
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:48pm
  These are practical guideline for ministers. They were not written for people like you.
  
  Report this comment
by faith
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:16pm
You left out:
Post bias comments on the internet (intelligence issue)

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HeDied4U
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:09pm
Don’t accept false teaching as truth, such as Mormonism. Mormonism is a very evil faith in that it leads those who follow it astray.
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- Mapache
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:14pm
  I am sure EVERY faith believes that EVERY faith that is not them is false teaching. Why single out the LDS?
- crazyrightwingmom
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:48pm
  I guess I’m pretty evil then!
  
  Report this comment
- kryptonite
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:01pm
  @CRAZYRIGHT
  I guess I’m pretty evil then!
  —-
  Not you. Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, among others.
  
  Report this comment
- Kupo
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:03pm
  Number of Evangelical churches who have gay ministers, perform gay marriages, or support the inclusion of gay ministers and marriage: Lots
  
  Number of Mormon churches who have gay ministers, perform gay marriages, or support the inclusion of gay ministers and marriage: Zero
  
  So tell me again, which denomination is leading people astray?
  
  Report this comment
- ashestoashes
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:11pm
  I have a beloved aunt who is Mormon..they believe that if they do good works, that they will one day be gods of their own planets..Joseph Smith and his father were both Freemasons..which is a brainchild of the Rothschilds..who are said to be from the Tribe of Dan(named as the serpent Gen 49:17)and were kicked out. . Most Mormons do not know what they are into..and for all intents and purposes are very nice people..but they would do well to throw away that book of Mormon and get themselves a Thomas Nelson KJ study bible..or a John McCarthur NKJ study Bible..It will mean the difference in your own salvation..For any other religion..whether it is Buddism.Hindu. New Age etc..is a false religion. The technique Lucifer uses.. is to give you a whole lot of truth..and then a subtle lie to ensnare you… When you read the Bible..ask the Holy Spirit to teach you and give you discernment.. that you can separate the truth from the lies..It is a God thing..I can do all things in Jesus/Yeshua who strengthens me..
  
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- Kupo
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:23pm
  Ashes, for someone who claims to be familiar with the LDS faith you offer a pretty twisted view of it. Mormons do not believe that salvation is earned by good works, rather that it is a gift through grace and faith.
  
  Report this comment
- brother_ed
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:54pm
  @KUPO
  
  My favorite line I recently heard is:
  
  “We are not here to ‘earn’ heaven, we are here to ‘learn’ heaven.”
  
  I believe it comes from Brad A Wilcox’s “The Continuous Atonement”, though I may be mistaken.
  
  It encapsulates the idea that there are rules in the Kingdom of God. We believe in different ‘degrees of glories (as is mentioned in Paul’s letter), and that each person will be assigned a glory depending on their ability to be obedient.
  
  Since we all fall short, Jesus Christ has made it possible for our sins to be forgiven, but if all got the same reward, why follow the rules in the first place? Why have rules? Only Jesus is able to judge our hearts and intentions…only He knows our skills, talents, abilities and desires..
  
  We do our best to follow commandments as we learn them. Repent as we recognize our shortcomings, and rely on the Grace of Christ to give us the strength to overcome our weaknesses.
  
  We believe that His commandment to be like Him is possible, and that His promise that we will inherit all that He has is valid.
  
  ASHES is a good man who loves us very much and he is sincerely concerned for our spiritual welfare. He has been taught that we are following a false prophet, has read many books, and uses many of the usual anti-Mormon talking points. I have met many people like this, and am not offended by them.
  
  Those who are curious are invited to go to lds.org or fairlds.org
  
  Report this comment
- Kupo
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:19pm
  Brother Ed
  
  Yeah, I’m sure that Ashes does mean well, and I don’t have anything against him personally. I just wish that he wouldn’t lie about my religion. There are plenty of things that someone could criticize the LDS church for without fabricating nonsense. A few things in particular I am in disagreement with the church – for example, I don’t agree with the Word of Wisdom. I do think that it’s a good idea to avoid certain substances as they can lead to problems, but denying someone a temple recommendation because they drink a beer on the weekends I think is ludicrous. That said, any criticism I level towards the church is based on actual policies and not nonsensical strawmen.
  
  Report this comment
- brother_ed
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:44pm
  @KUPO
  
  I know how you feel. As someone who joined the church later in life, I struggled with the Wordof Wisdom also. I asked the stake president why we worried about the don’ts and not the dos. His explanation made sense (though a little lengthy to quote).
  
  I now have a recommend. All’s I can say is, do the best with the things you are doing and all will be well.
  
  I also observe that some sins are a little more noticeable than others, but that means little. You may smell of alcohol or cigarettes, but you may not lust after women or covet.
  
  We have weaknesses for a reason – I believe it’s so we can learn compassion and also to teach us to rely on the atonement.
  
  Report this comment
- NeoFan
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 10:10pm
  @Hedied4u. Soon the Rapture will happen and as in the days of Noah you will be taken like those in the flood.
  
  Report this comment
- soundtracktowar
  Posted on December 13, 2012 at 2:36am
  So evil that it brought me back from being suicidal and drinking myself to death trying to deal with what I went through after I fought in Iraq. Oh yes, doesn’t do any good for anyone.
  
  Report this comment
Kupo
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:02pm
I like how this guy specifically singled out wife-beaters and ignored husband-beaters.

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- kryptonite
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:58pm
  Lol. Yeah there are a few of those out there, but let’s be honest, they are far outnumbered by men who abuse their wives/partners. It may be that Obama’s FINOs (Females in Name Only) are able to reverse the human trend, but I doubt it. Islam will dominate the world in the near future, so I foresee burqas everywhere, not ugly Amazons. Get ready to kill when the black ghosts walking the streets drive you nuts — or your nuts nuts.
  
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- Kupo
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:04pm
  Actually you are very, very wrong. Wife-perpetrated spousal abuse is actually more common than husband-perpetrated. Additionally, abuse is the most common in lesbian relationships and the least common in man-gay relationships.
  
  Report this comment
- Locked
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:45pm
  @Kupo
  
  “Wife-perpetrated spousal abuse is actually more common than husband-perpetrated.”
  
  Do you have some source for this? Every study I’ve ever read has said (on average) it’s like 95 to 5% (or less) husbands abusing wives versus the opposite.
  
  Report this comment
- DLV
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:23pm
  I agree with locked here Kupo everything points out that there are wife beaters and husband beaters are few and far between. Literally everything I read.
  
  Report this comment
- Kupo
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:44pm
  Well sorry, but what you guys have heard is wrong. Check the statistics if you need to. And even those don’t delve fully down the rabbit’s hole because men are far less likely to report spousal abuse to the police, and even when they do report it police are very likely to shrug it off and ignore it, plus men often bear the presumption of guilt even before any evidence is provided, such that men oftentimes end up in jail for BEING abused and not actually doing any abusing.
  
  From the American Public Health Association, Differences in Frequency of Violence and Reported Injury Between Relationships With Reciprocal and Nonreciprocal Intimate Partner Violence (2007):
  
  “Almost 24% of all relationships had some violence, and half of those were reciprocally violent. In nonreciprocally violent relationships, women were the perpetrators in more than 70% of the cases. Reciprocity was associated with more frequent violence among women, but not men. Regarding injury, men were more likely to inflict injury than were women, and reciprocal intimate partner violence was associated with greater injury than was nonreciprocal intimate partner violence regardless of the gender of the perpetrator.”
  
  If you take surveys into account, the percentage of men being abused by their wives goes up even further. The theory that DV is overwhelmingly perpetrated by men is a feminist myth that has no true basis in reality.
  
  Report this comment
- Kupo
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:55pm
  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854883/
  
  Report this comment
- kryptonite
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 7:00pm
  KUPO
  Wife-perpetrated spousal abuse is actually more common than husband-perpetrated. Additionally, abuse is the most common in lesbian relationships and the least common in man-gay relationships.
  ——
  Homosexual relationships have a different dynamic. We are talking male-female, so don’t change the subject. However, male-on-male “domestic violence” often ends in death. Not so with females. As for your claim that wives are more abusive than husbands, that’s a joke, KUPO. I don’t have time to read your article now, but anyone who claims differently is indulging in quack science.
  
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- Kupo
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 7:11pm
  Actually we’re talking about the proclivity for the perpetration of domestic violence based on gender. Because of that, whether or not the relationship is homosexual or heterosexual is rather beside the point.
  
  Sorry bro, but you have been brainwashed by the liberal feminist agenda. Every legitimate, contemporary study in domestic violence shows that women make up a significant portion of abusers and perpetrators; and I just love how you automatically dismiss anything that contradicts your preconceptions as “quack science”. Ridiculous.
  
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- Kupo
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 7:15pm
  “As for your claim that wives are more abusive than husbands, that’s a joke, KUPO”
  
  Even if they aren’t actually more abusive, which is something that I am more than willing to entertain due to the inherent margins for error and restrictive samples, coupled with the numbers being very close together, it’s pretty much indisputable that women are the abusers in a significant amount of the cases, which flies right in the face of your original reply stating that female abusers are far outnumbered by male abusers. It’s simply not true.
  
  Report this comment
- Wisdom7
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 11:47pm
  “I don’t have time to read your article now, but anyone who claims differently is indulging in quack science.”
  
  In other words, you reject reality because you don’t want to believe it.
  
  I hesitate to respond, but feel I must because I happen to be one of those men. At 6′ 2″ and 220 I was married to a 5′ 8″ female that weighed around 120. Yet, I was abused mentally and physically. You see, my former wife, became addicted to drugs, rejected God, had an affair, and in the end abandoned me and her children. I didn’t cry about it. I didn’t report it. I went to work every day and came home and took care of my children. I went to work sometimes with marks that were visible and made up excuses why they were there to cover my embarrassment. She also destroyed us financially. When she would scream, yell, scratch and hit I would just stand there and take it, even though I could have destroyed her physically. When she left, she tried to claim I was abusing her, filed an ex parte on me, and took the children. I was devastated not knowing where my children were. Yet, two days later she brought them back and dropped it because she wanted to “go party”. Later she tried to get child support, even though the children were living full-time with me. In court, I felt like I was on trial and already declared guilty even though I had done nothing. In the end, I made her look like a fool, made her lawyer apologize to me in front of the court, and she lost.
  
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- Wisdom7
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 11:48pm
  I had to keep a journal of every single conversation and recorded every single conversation just to protect myself, because of the very belief by many that men are always the problem and that women could not possibly be guilty. By holding this view, you protect them and they know it. She also later told me her attorney said she should do a lot of the stuff she did after she left and try to take me for everything and get custody. Of course, that didn’t happen, but the point is men are abused every day. We are just silent about it.
  
  It’s also annoying that we always hear about all the single mothers but single fathers apparently don’t exist.
  
  Report this comment
- kryptonite
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 6:35am
  @WISDOM
  Thanks for sharing. I never said it didn’t happen to men. I said the percentage was infinitely lower, and there is a very logical explanation for that. On average, men are stronger AND more aggressive in nature, so usually they will not put up with repeated physical abuse from a woman. Some strike back; others split. Men who take it do so mostly because they don’t want to lose their children. But as bad as your case was, you cannot generalize based on personal experience.
  
  Just so we’re clear, verbal abuse is not the issue here. Anybody can be verbally abusive, regardless of gender. In bad marriages, both partners are usually verbally abusive to each other. KUPO’s initial comment referred to wife-beaters as opposed to husband beaters, and that is the topic at hand.
  
  Report this comment
- kryptonite
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 6:39am
  @KUPO
  Did you read the study carefully? First off, if you conflate heterosexual and homosexual couples you lack basic research skills. You should learn something from the very study you link:
  
  “Among the 14 322 participants, 2952 were excluded either because they reported no relationships (n = 2584) or only same-sex relationships (n = 368), which left a subset of 11 370 participants.”
  
  Also did you read the limitations of the study? They were obvious to me just by reading the methodology and the population sampling. Let me quote, so you get it from the researchers themselves:
  
  1. All measures were assessed using only participant reports about their own perpetration of violence and that of their partners. The data are thus subject to all the biases and limitations inherent to this form of data collection, such as recall bias, social desirability bias, and reporting bias. A meta-analysis of the reliability of the conflict tactics scale concluded that there is evidence of underreporting by both genders, and that underreporting may be greater for men for more severe acts of IPV. (CONT.)
  
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- kryptonite
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 6:45am
  @KUPO (CONT.)
  2. The 3 questions included in the…study do not capture all forms of violence that occur between relationship partners, including many of the more severe forms of partner violence on the Conflict Tactics Scale.
  
  3a. Some have suggested that survey studies, such as this one, likely exclude the more severely abused women typically studied in clinical settings. Thus, our findings may represent 1 form of partner violence—what Johnson has called common couple violence or situational violence—that is likely to be found in broader population samples rather than in clinical samples….
  
  3b. [T]his particular sample is of limited range in age (18–28 years) and likely does not include the most severely abused victims who are subjected to extreme control by their partners and may be unable or unwilling to participate in research.
  
  Put in circular file.
  
  Despite the serious limitations that make this study pretty much worthless, it does show that women suffer injury more than men, although a breakdown of the types of violence inflicted by gender is not included, and “threaten your partner with violence” should not be assessed, since it does not constitute physical violence.
  
  Report this comment
- Wisdom7
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:40pm
  “Thanks for sharing. I never said it didn’t happen to men. I said the percentage was infinitely lower, and there is a very logical explanation for that. On average, men are stronger AND more aggressive in nature, so usually they will not put up with repeated physical abuse from a woman.”
  
  Where am I generalizing? I just stated I happened to be one of those men and that it does happen. You in fact are the one generalizing. You are only looking at one aspect of the issue and cannot get past that. In other words, according to you since men are stronger and do more damage they are more guilty. While men may do more damage when it comes to physical attacks, much of what you have stated is simply your “opinion” on the matter.
  
  Report this comment
- DLV
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 3:02pm
  Wisdom- if you are that big may I please ask why you didn’t stand up for yourself at least once? I’m not saying kill her, but inflict a good enough injury so that she would have learned she can’t do that to you. It seems female on male abuse is always that the man doesn’t want to hit back even if he easily could and win. I don’t understand why you felt the need to suffer through abuse. If she learned you may not have needed to suffer so much. You know?
  
  Report this comment
- kryptonite
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:32pm
  @WISDOM
  Where am I generalizing?”
  —
  Here: “…but the point is men are abused every day. We are just silent about it.”
  
  => “You in fact are the one generalizing.”
  
  Yep. Except that unlike you, the stats and the Word of God back me up. Wife-beaters far outnumber husband-beaters, from the beginning till the end of time.
  
  You accuse me of “rejecting reality,” but you are the one intent on defending an absurd claim. I took the time to read that pseudo-scientific study and point out its patent flaws, but no matter, because you cannot see past your own experience, which was obviously very traumatic.
  
  Unlike DLV, I am not going to challenge you on why you didn’t restrain your wife, because chronic domestic violence is a very complex matter and I am assuming that, among other things, you were afraid of losing your children, since the court system does tend to favor women in these cases.
  
  => “…according to you since men are stronger and do more damage they are more guilty.”
  —
  Lol. According to me where? I just stated a FACT: Men are more likely to beat their wives AND inflict serious bodily harm than women. Geez, dude.
  
  => “You are only looking at one aspect of the issue”
  
  Yeah, you got it, at long last. I am addressing KUPO’s initial claim. Go back and read it again, just so it sinks in. (CONT.)
  
  Report this comment
- kryptonite
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:35pm
  @WISDOM
  Ironically, this new quack claim seeks to establish female supremacy over the male, because victimization makes women vulnerable in every way. I hate female victimization, but we can’t address the problem effectively by spreading the false notion that women are physically more powerful than men. That’s the feminist myth Hollywood perpetuates through their movies, where superbabes always beat the crap out of them tough guys.
  
  Women no longer need men to procreate, find love, have financial stability, be cherished and protected- heck, now it turns out they have been physically victimizing us all along. We just didn’t know it. What’s next on the feminist “invincible Amazon” agenda? That more men are raped on the streets than women?
  
  Report this comment
- Wisdom7
  Posted on December 8, 2012 at 2:21am
  That isn’t the only study, and this isn’t 1950.
  
  Report this comment
- DLV
  Posted on December 8, 2012 at 2:40pm
  Kryp- I was only asking why he didn’t like “push” her back a little instead of just taking it. Although Daniel Tosh is quite edgy and not many Christians watch him, I think he brought up a really good point on domestic abuse and why it seems like it is never right to clock your wife. first he makes a overarching statement “domestic abuse is never okay” and then he says “really never? What if you come home from work and find that your wife has dunked two of your children underwater, she is about to dunk a third is it okay to clock her then?”
  
  Unfortunately, domestic abuse is never okay. It gets ridiculous. While this is an extreme example and is used as an edgy joke, there is a really clear point behind it. Bottom line no one should just take domestic abuse, man or woman, stand up and fight back and if you have facts on your side well you should win. Not always because the courts can be brain dead stupid, but hopefully you get someone who is actually sane.
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZHw9hcGoFM
  
  Report this comment
Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 1:52pm
As many of you know, I am a Christian Chaplain and thus my post here will duly be biased by my own experience in the field for the last 16 years.

The ten points listed are a portion of what to avoid, what a Christian – pastor or not, should seek to avoid as well as is humanly possible.

We are all called upon to live a life as exemplified by Jesus, and by grace through faith are able to overcome the challenges tossed our way by the Devil. In this walk we take, pastors are held by God to the highest of standards, for we have been called to be examples to the world and the flocks we are appointed to care for and tend to the spiritual needs of.

In whatever ministry we are called for – missionary, hospital, specific church, revivals, prisons and so forth, we are to set the example for in the lives we live, talking and walking and becoming the message of Christ coming alive in our lives and deeds.

Do we make errors, yes, and we are to admit such and strive to overcome them, this is being both responsible and accountable. Truth in all matters of our lives and duties is the foundation for the respect and trust of our missions in this world as God gives – if we fail to sustain what is truth, fail to be accountable, we have failed God and will thus be held to account.

Remember, the life we live with Christ, and in accord with God’s word is the greatest testimony we can give to the world.

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- OutOfTheAether
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:31pm
  SNOW I do enjoy your posts. They’re always spot on. Thanks
  
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- INTHEBROTHERHOOD
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:19pm
  hi snow……through grace we are saved, and faith can be as much as a small mustard seed…neither one of theese will help you overcome the wiles of the devil. it takes the whole armour of God to do that, and even then, some require additional prayer and fasting. God is no respector of persons, so everyone is held to the highest standard, equally. pastors are not singled out.however, some people are more annointed than others…bottom line is everyone, who believes will have a cross to carry time and time again…God bless you pastor…may your flock be many…im sure your crowns are going to be magnifacint in splendor and beauty
  
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- Eastinfection
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 6:10pm
  SNOW….
  
  “The ten points listed are a portion of what to avoid, what a Christian – pastor or not, should seek to avoid as well as is humanly possible.”
  
  HUMANLY possible….
  
  I think THAT’S the point, Snow.
  
  HUMANS, regardless of faith, should seek to avoid these things as much as possible…
  
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TheCalmOne
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 1:43pm
Men have to be advised not to beat their wives, in this day and age? And the justification for this is a Bible verse? How about: ‘Don’t beat your wife, because it is wrong’.

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- Magyar
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 1:51pm
  Yea, no kidding!
  
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- biblegeek119
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:02pm
  You consider it wrong because you were raised in a culture were the biblical principles are applied. It is not considered wrong in other cultures and even some holy books of other religions (Islam).
  
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- Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:05pm
  Exactly, one of my seminary teachers said of marriage: Respect each other their partner, man and woman, for both of you are part of a whole united by God. Respect, it is the foundation of love and trust that makes it work in good times, and especially in the bad times that will inevitably come along.
  
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- DoseofReality
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:25pm
  Biblegeek – So in every culture in the hisotry of man where the bible wasnt the driving force, men thought it was fine to beat their wives? Ok…you sir are an imbicile
  
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- JustMeInAZ
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:37pm
  Maybe you should change your name to DoseofStupidity because that’s not what they said. SOME religions, not all. Try reading AND comprehending for a change.
  
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- kryptonite
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:45pm
  DoseofReality
  So in every culture in the hisotry of man where the bible wasnt the driving force, men thought it was fine to beat their wives?
  —–
  Or worse. Even today’s secular western civilization was once tempered by Biblical principles. Women are the weaker vessel and this is a (sinful) man’s world.
  
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- stone2016
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:08pm
  I know it’s wrong, but why? Remove the creator or attempt to reach a higher plain and explain to me why its wrong. What are morals in a world where adhering to morals means nothing? Don’t beat your wife? Why? Just because? Help the homeless, why? Just because it’s the right thing to do? Says who? And if I say it’s the wrong thing to do, how can you disagree other than saying “just because”? Could it be that we are all born with a “guiding compass” that tells us inside what is wrong and right? And even when we do wrong, deep down we know it’s wrong and have to actively work against those feelings? Is that just learned? Or is it something more? Like a guiding compass given to us by a loving Creator who wants us all to stay on the path? Or is it yet another 1 in 10 trillion trillion trillion chance happenings that happened with all the other 1 in 10 trillion trillion trillion chance happenings that evolved this “compass”?
  
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- biblegeek119
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:10pm
  DoseofReality – The biblical principles are around for thousands of years, it is not a new thing. Remember that people all originated from the same geographical area. As they move away, biblical principles went with them too. So, right, if the biblical principles are not present, then people think it is okay to be mean to other people. They come up with their own laws. In Islam it is okay to beat your wife, actually, you are being righteous by doing it.
  
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- TheCalmOne
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:51pm
  STONE2016: Why is it wrong to beat your wife? Seriously? It’s wrong because we don’t hurt people we love, or anyone else for that matter, if we can help it. It’s bad to hurt people. It’s good to maintain love and harmony within the family home, because it makes everyone’s life happier and promotes healthy development for our children. Safety, happiness and security are good for everybody, especially our children. All of this has to be explained to you?
  
  Here’s a thought experiment for you. Let’s say God somehow lets it be known to you, through personal revelation, or a new divinely inspired edition of the Bible, or a flaming sign in the sky or any other way, that He has now decided that it is in fact ok to beat your wife. He makes the rules, after all. Would you then start beating your wife?
  
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thibx
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 1:36pm
#2 was stupid if i am a pastor and doing something wrong do you think i am going to tell. rest of list ok. if your heart is not fixed on God you are not going to make it. politics in the pulpit if you are not keeping up with what’s going on you are in the wrong. everything in politics affect the church and the people who believe. the post that don’t like God i would like to see your reactions 30 sec. after you die. can’t decide on that side to believe in Jesus Christ and get into heaven. no athiest in hell.

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The Third Archon
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 1:29pm
“3. Beat or abuse your wife. The Bible says in 1 Peter 3:7 that God will not listen to your prayers if you mistreat your wife. If you are an abuser (and even if you are a master at hiding your sin from others), the Lord will oppose you until you seek help.”
It also makes it pretty clear in multiple places (starting in Genesis) that women are subservient to men and considers them property, for example where it details the “correct” way to sell your daughter into slavery and what may be done with her is she doesn’t “please” her new master (Exodus 21:7-8).

Yes, what an ENLIGHTENED and MORAL book you have there that you base your religion upon.

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- DoGooder
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 1:48pm
  Better read the whole Bible (Truth) before you spout off. Specifically take a look at the second covenant brought about by Jesus’ death and reserrection. At theat time, Jesus died for the sins of all, and all the sins past, present and future. Sin took on a new name at the cross and that is disobediance. Wwe are all guilty of the sin of disobediance and if our disobediance is a prerequisite to speaking to God, then no one can. Fortunately ignorance is not a sin, but a condition of your spirit that is fatal. But alas, there is hope Mr Archon, you to can accept the gift of life that through God’s grace, was given to you that day at Calvery….God loves you inspite of yourself, and He wants you to be with Him when you close your eyes for the last time. You have a chance, just ask Him, He will hear you…And if you do…I will have the joy of meeting you in Heaven.
  
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- SendTheMeteors
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 1:49pm
  Wow. I knew you were supposed to stone her to death if she lost her virginity before marriage but I didn’t know you could sell her.
  
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- DoGooder
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:02pm
  By the way, the Scripture you refer to is during a time that Israel was in slavery to the Egyptians, and relates to the slave trade of Hebrew (Jewish) slaves. This is before God releived Israel of Jewish bondage. Read and quote the whole thing if you plan to dabble in theology.
  
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- biblegeek119
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:10pm
  You need to learn what biblical slavery means. It is not a lifetime ownership by a “master” as we saw happening here in US. It is a way of paying for a debt. If you don’t have money to pay for something you owe, then you had to work for that person to pay for it. This work-to-pay debt can not exceed 7 years, which by them you will release the person (even if they still owe you) and you must give them something to start out their lives again (animals, land etc).
  
  Today, this is still applied, from individuals to countries. If you work all day to pay for your mortgage or your credit card you are a slave to them, they set up the penalties, the late fees etc. If are a country that owes to another country, they pretty much dictates your policies.
  
  Just meditate on this.
  
  Read the bible understanding the condition of the people at the time and for you to understand better the principles.
  
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- The Third Archon
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:23pm
  @DOGOODER
  I know you Christians may be fond of the “selective incorporation” of the Old Testament (hell, let’s not mince words–of your Bible WRIT LARGE) tactic to avoid responsibility for the TRULY HORRIFIC **** your “holy book” has said (odd for a book supposedly guided by the hand of a divine being to need so many interpretative crutches…), but the fact of the matter is not only does your entire theodicy DEPEND upon the Old Testament (no “original sin” and garden of Eden events and no need for Jesus’ sacrifice for one REALLY big thing), but Jesus sacrifice ALSO only addressed the need for sacrificial atonement–it did NOT jettison ANY of the Mosaic law of the Old Testament (which Christians often conveniently ignore ALSO happens to include the 10 Commandments) by JESUS OWN EXPLICIT COMMAND (Matthew 5:18). And also, as for your PATHETIC excuse of “oh, this was while they were in slavery in Egypt”–not only is that NOT a moral excuse, not only is there no archaeological evidence of that ever happening, but if you’d actually READ your bible you’d see you were just flat out WRONG by the BIBLE’S OWN ACCOUNT. At that point the Israelites had already LEFT Egypt–in fact, those laws were given by none other than (supposedly) GOD HIMSELF to Moses to give to the Israelites, IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING the passage that outlays the 10 Commandments (the first set–the second is in Deuteronomy). I’m sorry if you chose to believe something patently absurd.
  
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- The Third Archon
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:26pm
  @BIBLEGEEK
  No, you’re confusing the laws governing JEWISH slaves and those governing non-Jewish slaves. And also, you COULD convert a Jewish slave into an effectively non-Jewish (i.e. permanent) slave (see Exodus 21 which explicitly contradicts you).
  
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- 00100111
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:23pm
  It’s always so cute how militant atheists get their “information” about Christianity from atheist websites, take things out of context and try to spin them a different way. Yet, they still wonder why no one takes them seriously.
  
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- The Third Archon
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:37pm
  @00100111
  So the bible is an atheist website now? Interesting, VERY interesting…
  
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- DoGooder
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:41pm
  Archy, I can tell by your post that you are struggling with the concept of morality. Your argument against the existence of God actually proves the He does exist. Let me explain. In order for us to understand moral evil, we have to have a frame of reference. In other words, without a definition of “good”, we can’t define “evil”. Here’s were God comes in. God is all good and gives us “the rules” on what is good so that we can identify evil. If this were not the case, we would have to assume that man was “born” with a sense of good. If this were true, evil never would have entered the world. There would be no morality because we would have no definition of right and wrong. Without God, we wouldn’t “understand’ the awful things that man does to each other. There would be no negative aspect to murder, rape, violence, genocide, theft, infanticide (abortion). There would be no good moral gauge with which to place those things in the “morally wrong” column. So by your attempt to explain away God, you are actually proving He exists. Archy, the God you seek to dismiss is not about religion or man’s unworthiness to represent Him. He is about loving you. Loving you so much that He wants you to be with Him for eternity. Face it, when you take the big dirt nap, you will wake up either in Heaven (with God), or in eternal separation in Hell (All alone with the torment of all the knowledge you gained here) . ALONE Archy in eternal torment. And you will be there by your own ch
  
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ArmedAndReallyPissed
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 1:27pm
I don’t know, but i’m guessing one of those on the “do not do” list is hosting a youth “sleep over.”

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jackact
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 1:25pm
10.) not vote for democrats
9.) not vote for democrats
8.) not vote for democrats
7.) not vote for democrats
6.) not vote for democrats
5.) not vote for democrats
4.) not vote for democrats
3.) not vote for democrats
2.) not vote for democrats
1.) not vote for democrats…..anymore!

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- CanadaRocks
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 1:37pm
  Good one genius. Your sour grapes and pettiness apparently knows no bounds. Even in a post about religion you cant help yourself.
  
  “Stupid is as stupid does.” Forrest Gump
  
  Report this comment
- inblack
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 1:46pm
  @CANADAROCKS
  
  That is your contribution?
  
  At least Jackact’s was funny.
  
  Report this comment
- CanadaRocks
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 1:56pm
  If you think that is funny, i would hate to see his whole routine.
  
  Report this comment
- TROLLMONGER
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:05pm
  It must have taken all two of your brain cells to come up with that one. Typical shallow uneducated right winger…LOL!
  
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- ArmedAndReallyPissed
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:23pm
  LOL….I was just waiting for the almighty TROLL to spew his foulness upon thee…….right on cue…..What a brilliant douche thou art.
  
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- TROLLMONGER
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:38pm
  armed piss,
  
  Hopefully you arent carrying a bible in your other hand. Hate, guns, and a bible make a very nasty threat to civilized society.
  
  Report this comment
- 00100111
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:25pm
  I see the usual progressive trolls are out in force today. Did someone put extra sand in their vaginas recently?
  
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- DLV
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:24pm
  o1- nice south park reference hahahahahaha. The answer to your question is yes, they are quite sandy.
  
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IMCHRISTIAN
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 1:20pm
This is a list of terrible things to do whether by the clergy or any human being. Keep your morals and ethics forever with no deviant behavior.

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The Third Archon
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 1:20pm
“10 STUPID THINGS CHRISTIAN PASTORS SHOULD NEVER DO:”
(1) Preach abominable Christian teachings, like homosexuals are intrinsically immoral, or slavery is acceptable (oh right, MOST of you stopped doing that after the American civil war, my mistake)
(2) Waste a second of your time praying to a being you have no reason to believes exists, that wouldn’t need your prayers (presumably by your own theology), and that wouldn’t do anything about them (again, by some, though not all, interpretations of you own theology–if God already has a plan for things, what do you intend to achieve through intercessory prayer?)
(3) Proselytize as absolute truth something you have no, and have never produced any, evidence of.
(4) Promote faith, rather than evidence, based belief as a virtue.
(5) Con people into giving money to support your farce, ostensibly a charity, but with a massive overhead going to redundant mystics like yourselves so you can spread your poisonous bald assertions.
(6) Tell people they are all inherently and unavoidable wicked people who deserve eternal torture for finite actions–unless they blindly believe in this being you assert exists and its rules.
(7) Convince people to reject the use of their own reasoning and inquisitive nature.
(8) Dupe people into thinking ignorance of reality is an acceptable and healthy way to live and govern society.
(9) Create gratuitous social division and conflict.
(10) Waste your life and talent as a pastor.

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- DoGooder
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 1:33pm
  Take the chance that it isn’t true if you will but don’t blame me when “The Third Archon”‘s nuts are roasting on an open fire. As for me I choose to believe.
  
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- BlackCrow
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 1:41pm
  Put this on the list.
  
  Abandon the literal interpretation of Genesis. The universe was not “created in a week”. The universe is more than 5000 years old. Evolution is not a “theory” it is an observed phenomena.
  
  Even the hierarchy of the Catholic Church says the Bible is NOT a science text book.
  
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- CanadaRocks
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 1:45pm
  Couldnt have said it better myself.
  
  When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said “Let us pray.” We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land.
  Desmond Tutu
  
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- rossgolf
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 1:52pm
  I am a Christian minister. I believe in and have faith in YHWY, His Son Jesus Christ, and His Holy Spirit. I hold the teachings (which you have greatly misrepresented) as the authoritative word of God.
  
  Please understand, I will not debate you in this forum. I also hope you will not attack me, for I am not attacking you. I hope you will read my response maturely.
  
  There are so many things I could say, point by point of your Top 10, but because of the perceived disdain you have for people of faith, I don’t think it would do any good.
  
  Here is something I would like you to ponder: You say that we who are Christians believe in something we cannot prove (which we can), yet you (my assumption) believe that we came from an ooze in the sea, that eventually swung from a tree. Where is your proof? It takes more faith for you to believe in junk science than it does for me to believe there is a designer – and He is God.
  
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- TAKING OUR GOV. BACK
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 1:55pm
  The Third Archon,
  Maybe I am wasting my time simply writing this to you, but someone needs too. If you are going to use any text, make sure you have it in context. Exodus 21:7-8 are only part of the story that fits your rant. The purpose in verse 8 is to redeem (by the master of the father, not the father) or to purchase back the girl (daughter, sold by the master not the father) of a willing slave, a slave that is was bonded out of failure to repay a loan. The part of deception is based on a poor master of a willing slave and he will be accounted for later on in the text. This is still practiced in some Jewish circles and is considered to be the mark of a fair or excellent master. Meaning a man who loves and cherishes his slaves as human beings rather than property, so much so that the slaves refuse to leave their master for fear of not being able to provide as well as he did.
  
  One more challenge, you say there is and never was any proof of the truth. To argue with one so ideologically stiffened would be a waste of time. So I offer a challenge in return, prove God does not exist. But there must be actual proof, not talking points, or bluffs, and don’t use the Bible. Why, because you don’t believe it is true anyway. If it’s not true then it can’t be used as a lever to prove one.
  
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- RANGER1965
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 1:59pm
  #11 Believing that Atheism has anything to do with logic or reasoning when it’s nothing more than another faith based religion dedicated to worshipping nothingness, and one’s self.
  
  #12 Buying into ignorance brought about by uneducated arrogance, which is the heart of Atheism
  
  #13 Listening to an Atheist try to explain Science and not laugh.
  
  #14 Watching an Atheist substitute passion for hatred, and try to explain how peaceful and enlightened they are, all the while observing a ragged hole in their heart as big as Texas.
  
  #15 Observing an Atheist speak eloquently about the Spanish Inquisition and the Witch trials as examples of Christian Extremism when it has nothing to do with Christ…then ignoring Stalin, Mao, Hitler, and a thousand other Atheistic Tyrants which set the entire world on fire.
  
  #16 Trying to find anything credible about an ungrateful, spiteful, hateful, and foolish faith based religion like Atheism.
  
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- Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:02pm
  @third Archon:
  
  As with all humanity you are free to choose what you believe or not believe upon and in. May you come to understand the truth of God and of Jesus while life remains in you.
  
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- CanadaRocks
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:03pm
  @rossgolf. I respect your biews but have 2 simple questions for you.
  
  1. Where is the proof you state you have proving the existence of god? Actual physical non bible reciting proof.
  
  2. Science has proven the theory of evolution. We have the fossils and remains that were buried
  proving the evolution of man as well as animals. How is this junk science?
  
  I will take evidence and reasoning over an unproven mystery anyday.
  
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- TROLLMONGER
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:04pm
  Amen to that Archon…LOL!
  
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- revron
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:09pm
  Rossgolf, hows it feel to know that we have wasted all our time and talent in the study of something that doesn’t exist? You think that people that make God and the Bible their profession and passion would be the ones who know best if it is authentic or not.
  Third acorn; 95% of the people who are self-proclaimed athiests (and especially the hostile ones) chose not believe in God, not based on evidence but based on offence. When did God fail you?
  
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- biblegeek119
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:21pm
  The laws of God are not for you, so do whatever you want. The laws of God are for those that believe He is the Creator, the Judge and that He is working on His people for a future eternal Kingdom.
  
  So, every time you see something you don’t like in the bible, don’t do it. Just accept the fact that you will not get in the Kingdom, if you are okay with that then everything is just fine.
  
  Report this comment
- Tractorboy
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:22pm
  @ROSSGOLF, Well put brother, done with class.
  
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- DoseofReality
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:24pm
  Ross….you state you have proof that God exists…not just God, but the Christian God. Wow…the whole worldd will be waiting on that proof. Somehow I have a feeling you dont have jack squat for PROOF….other than what years and years of brainwashing and group think have taught you is proof. I can assure you if you can prove it, your name will be known to all. We will be waiting for the greatest discovery in the history of history…
  
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- Amren
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:29pm
  @ CANADAROCKS,
  Canadians used to own Africa? Really? Oh, I see. You were quoting Desmond Tutu. Ohhhhh…..That’s funny because he’s an Anglican minister. Your hypocrasy knows no bounds. You should have quoted an atheist. Then I would believe you actually believed there was no God.
  
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- The Third Archon
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:35pm
  @DOGOODER
  Really? Pascal’s Wager? Did you even bother thinking that through? You realize that the exact same argument could be made for EVERY SINGLE RELIGION (extant or possible) that COULD be true, and COULD lead to unpleasant consequences for disbelief, but which you seem to have no problem disbelieving. That’s an idiotic proposition and I doubt anyone in the history of the world has ever been convinced by it. Also–it’s not a terribly sincere reason to “believe” (in fact, I don’t know if it can even be qualified as “belief”), and were your God real, it could PROBABLY tell the difference.
  
  “…the perceived disdain you have for people of faith…”
  I have disdain for believing any idea upon faith, rather than evidence–it is foolish and dangerous. I understand why people do it, and I don’t hate them for it.
  
  “Christians believe in something we cannot prove (which we can),”
  Do it then, don’t just claim you could–you’d be the first.
  “…believe that we came from an ooze in the sea, that eventually swung from a tree.”
  (1) I’m not 100% sure how it happened, but yes biology (REAL science, not ‘junk science,’ but the science used and tested by scientists EVERY DAY) has good evidence for a theory more or less like that–certainly of common ancestry with emergent diversity through change over time.
  (2) Even if I had NO CLUE whatsoever, that doesn’t make “God” anymore probable an explanation–that’s called the argument from ignorance.
  
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- ilumino
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:40pm
  10 things Archon likes to do on the blaze…..
  1. Say hateful things about people he claims are hateful.
  2. Tell people they have no reason to to do something like praying, as if they need to justify their actions based on his supposedly flawless reasoning.
  3. Criticize people for free speech because they don’t provide enough evidence to convince him. Yet, he never provides any evidence of his own opinions.
  4. Criticize the idea of faith because he thinks its anti science even though great scientists like Edison credited the concept of faith in their discoveries.
  5. Insult people for giving to their churches, and yet believes we should all be willing to give much more to the all knowing government where the people there make much more than the average pastor.
  6. Twist Christian beliefs to sound really evil and negative, and yet claim people aren’t even humans until they are capable of rational thought which excludes children. Archon uses this “rationale” to justify abortion and presumably post birth abortion.
  7. Accuse pastors of telling people to ignore reason, all the while telling us to ignore our reasons for believing.
  8. Claiming we all ignore reality by assuming science is not ignorant to anything and has it all figured out.
  9. Claim that Christians are the ones dividing the nation while saying divisive, hateful, and disrespectful things to many of the people on this site. Maybe he thinks people will be shamed into thinking like him?
  10. Waste his time on
  
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- The Third Archon
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:46pm
  @TAKING OUR GOV. BACK
  You’d think the fact that you have to do all kinds of literary gymnastics to defend the ownership of other human beings as chattels (EVER for ANY length of time) as a moral teaching in your holy book would set off some red flags in your head.
  
  Also, you’re reading of “redeemed” is completely off-base. It’s instructions on how Jewish girls are to be sold, it explicitly states they DON’T automatically go free like Jewish men (who actually don’t go automatically free EITHER if you provide them with a wife whom they want to keep), and the whole “redemption” thing is in effect a “refund” when they are considered “defective” by their master-purchaser–and why? Because YOUR HOLY BOOK, views women as PROPERTY not PEOPLE. Sorry–you’re the one who claims it’s a true and moral book, not me.
  
  “…To argue with one so ideologically stiffened would be a waste of time.”
  It’s simply the reality that there’s a dearth of empirical evidence for your claims–that’s not dogmatic, that’s the rational conclusion.
  
  “So I offer a challenge in return, prove God does not exist…”
  That’s not how the burden of proof for truth claims works–I’m not CLAIMING a God exists, YOU are. In order for ANYONE to reasonably believe you, you must first SHOW why they should.
  BUT, given that we’ve NEVER seen ANY credible evidence of the supernatural, or need for it to explain physical reality, God (yours or any) probably DOESN’T exist.
  
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- RANGER1965
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:47pm
  @Ilumino,
  
  Nicely said. It’s funny how flimsy atheistic arguments are. When exposed to even a particle of the same reasoning that they accuse Christians of not using, the whole system falls apart leaving an angry and speechless atheist.
  
  Report this comment
- minorityconservative2
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:53pm
  Where is your proof that there is no GOD? You can’t prove it. It is also a scientific fact that everything can not come from nothing. Whatever you believe I don’t care, but you should not belittle other people for what they believe. Isn’t that what you people would call hate speech? I bet you people who are demonizing would never go stand over in a Muslim country and tell them there is no GOD and their beliefs are all wrong. You pick on CHRISTians because we won’t blow you up or cut off your head. It is quite cowardly to hit someone you know can’t or won’t hit back.
  
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- The Third Archon
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:55pm
  “#11 Believing that Atheism has anything to do with logic or reasoning when it’s nothing more than another faith based religion dedicated to worshipping nothingness, and one’s self.”
  LOL–that’s cute. Question, if your religion is based upon faith and you find that a virtue, how can you (wrongly–atheism is lack of belief, it therefore cannot be faith in a belief) fault atheism for what you find laudable in your own religion? Isn’t that, what’s the word–oh, hypocrisy?
  “#15 Observing an Atheist speak eloquently about the Spanish Inquisition and the Witch trials as examples of Christian Extremism when it has nothing to do with Christ”
  Wait, you are going to try to claim the Inquisition and Salem Witch trials had NOTHING to do with Christianity? Wow–that’s a NEW level of denial. Are you aware the Inquisition was to persecute heretics of CHRISTIANITY, and the Witch Trials were conducted by CHRISTIANS following the biblical command to not “suffer a sorceress to live.” Too bad your God didn’t have the foresight to mention there AREN’T such things as “sorceresses.”
  
  @REVRON
  “You think that people that make God and the Bible their profession and passion would be the ones who know best if it is authentic or not.”
  Yes, studying the bible DOES lead many to atheism, or disbelief in Christianity at the least.
  ” 95% of…fail you?”
  And where did you get THAT statistic? Your ass? I found a dearth of empirical evidence–therefore belief is not justif
  
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- The Third Archon
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:06pm
  @BIBLEGEEK
  Yeah, that would be fine–except there ARE theists who DO believe that nonsense and feel the need to legislate PUBLIC POLICY that affects all of us on the basis of it. So that’s not acceptable–what you believe DOES matter and DOES make a consequential difference to how you live your life and the actions you take, which unavoidable affect OTHERS’ lives. You live in a SOCIAL milieu, and you affect MORE than just yourself with your beliefs and the actions you take pursuant thereunto. I submit to you, the 9/11 hijackers for no further proof that religious delusions (any belief without confirmation) are exceedingly dangerous, even (and perhaps especially) to those who do not share the delusion.
  
  @ILUMINO
  @1 So in your world questioning whether an idea is true, and practices it encourage moral, is “hateful”? Very interesting–that explains quite a lot.
  @2 You should have SOME credible reason to justify the things you do.
  @3 I’m not the one making FANTASTIC assertions about magic and deities–you are. And I don’t mind your speech–it’s your idiotic public policy and cultural suggestions on the basis of your unjustified delusions I find dangerous.
  @4 Just because you are a scientist doesn’t mean you are infallible, it just means you are trained in a scientific discipline. Finally faith ISN’T scientific–science requires demonstrable EVIDENCE for its claims, not just belief because they are attractive or “so-and-so” believes them.
  
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- The Third Archon
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:16pm
  @5 Giving to church IS stupid–there’s nothing a church does that COULDN’T be done more efficiently through secular means–EVERYTHING a church does, charity, socializing, etc., could ALL be done through a secular organization, less the cost of the ecclesiastics who serve no useful purpose. The money that pays them to make wild and unjustified assertions that distract from what’s real, true, and important, COULD be used to pay for more charity, or pay for counseling or thousands of other services to benefit the membership, or just stay in the pockets of the members (goodness knows they could use it right now).
  @6 I wasn’t necessarily talking about Christian BELIEFS–they range quite broadly, sometimes with little if any connection to DOCTRINE. I was criticizing the DOCTRINE from which they CLAIM to derive their beliefs. And it IS a vile, barbaric, and immoral doctrine.
  @7 What reasons DO you have for believing then? Because if you DON’T have any credible ones, then you ARE ignoring your reason.
  @8 Ignoring reality isn’t not having an explanation, it’s ignoring the explanation DIRECTLY offered by the preponderance of credible evidence. When you claim “evolution isn’t real” or “the Earth is thousands (rather than billions) of years old” you aren’t just offering an explanation in the absence of one–you are ignoring ALL the evidence offered by REALITY to the CONTRARY of such a proposition.
  @9 Religions ARE divisive–and believing “just ‘cuz” IS shameful.
  
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- biblegeek119
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:20pm
  I don’t have a whole day to type stuff here, but I will answer one of your posts towards me.
  
  I look forward to a time where all of us that believe will be together in just one place living under the righteous laws of God, just like everything else in nature does. We will live in perfect harmony and joy. For now, you will have to put up with us when we voice our opinion and I will have to put up with you while you voice yours. Your policies also affect my life.
  
  There is nothing one person does that do not affect the whole Universe.
  
  (ps: I am a woman)
  
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- The Third Archon
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:26pm
  “Where is your proof that there is no GOD? You can’t prove it.”
  (1) I don’t have to–I’m not claiming there IS a God, YOU are. And therefore, to have any reason ANYONE should believe that, you need to show WHY it’s more likely true than not.
  (2) However, I ALSO believe that there probably AREN’T any such things as gods, for the SAME reason I (and probably you) don’t believe in fairies, mermaids, unicorns, or leprechauns (or any religion NOT yours for that matter)–they don’t fit with the evidence of reality we DO have, a reality in which there is a dearth of magic and mythical beings.
  
  “It is also a scientific fact that everything can not come from nothing.”
  (1) Not all (I’m not even sure if ANY) scientific theories claim everything came from nothing.
  (2) I DON’T think science claims something CANNOT come from nothing–what’s you basis for claiming it does?
  (3) In YOUR OWN theology, God, at least, MUST come from nothing, so you aren’t even logically consistent.
  
  “but you should not belittle other people for what they believe.”
  I belittle what they believe, because it’s absurd, I don’t belittle them–it’s very understandable WHY they would given most are raised into believing it’s true before the age of reason and never question it. Combine this with how widespread, and therefore “normal” it seems, and the fact that they are ALSO taught that FAILING to believe carries dire consequences. Of COURSE they believe THEN–but is it TRUE?
  
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- 00100111
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:28pm
  ROSSGOLF: ” I hope you will read my response maturely. ”
  
  Yeah, good luck with that. Progressive militant atheists cannot be mature. If they had their way we’d all be hanged, drawn, and quartered.
  
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- The Third Archon
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:35pm
  “Isn’t that what you people would call hate speech?
  (1) Hate speech isn’t a crime (or at least, not everyone, Leftist or no, thinks it should be), hate CRIMES are (doing something because of a person’s membership in a class of people).
  (2) Hate speech is only directed at people, not ideas. Pernicious ideas deserving of hate SHOULD be hated.
  
  ” I bet you people…beliefs are all wrong.”
  Well there ARE atheists in Muslim countries, and yes I don’t go over to Muslims countries to rail against their (absurd and dangerous) beliefs because I DON’T LIVE IN A MUSLIM MAJORITY COUNTRY where Islam is influencing public policy. I live in a country were the virulent strain of theism that’s problematic is CHRISTIANITY (which ALSO happens to be the largest plurality of theistic belief worldwide currently), and hence IT gets the most attention, as it SHOULD. If 70-80% of the U.S. were Muslim, we’d be discussing how absurd and dangerous Islamic beliefs are–but they AREN’T what 70-80% believe.
  
  “You pick on CHRISTians because we won’t blow you up or cut off your head.”
  No, the LAW prevents you from doing so–Christians have, and do, resort to violence elsewhere (and less often here). And the fact that you need violence to protect your beliefs is not something to be proud of.
  
  “It is quite cowardly to hit someone you know can’t or won’t hit back.”
  It’s quite irrational to think responding violently to criticism of your beliefs is rational–if they are TR
  
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- The Third Archon
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:44pm
  “I look forward to a time where all of us that believe will be together in just one place living under the righteous laws of God, just like everything else in nature does.”
  What do you mean “just like everything else in nature does”? Have you observed the natural world lately? It’s a brutal and merciless race for survival, with fantastic amounts of gratuitous suffering resulting from the conflicts of nature.
  “We will live in perfect harmony and joy. For now, you will have to put up with us when we voice our opinion and I will have to put up with you while you voice yours. Your policies also affect my life.”
  I think people should be allowed to believe what they want freely and to argue about it–without this liberty, we would not be ABLE to deliberate and discern true and useful ideas from false and harmful ones. But this liberty does not immunize the IDEAS one holds from criticism–on the contrary, its only useful purpose in existing IS so that ideas may be criticized freely and openly. And no TRUE idea needs fear investigation and testing. Yes, our choices DO affect one another–and this is why our beliefs and actions, and the policies we pursue as a society, and our cultural values should be based upon DEMONSTRABLE truths of reality, not metaphysical suppositions.
  
  “(ps: I am a woman)”
  Yes…and?
  
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- ScoobyCheese
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:23pm
  (1) We believe everyone is intrinsically immoral (ie: “sinners”) and in need of forgiveness. And it was mainly Christians who were speaking out against slavery during, and before, the Civil War.
  (2) I have very good reasons to believe God exists. No, He doesn’t need our prayers – we do. He wants them, though.
  (3) http://bible.org/seriespage/presenting-evidence-demands-verdict (for starters). It’s also an absolute to say that it is NOT true, but you seem to have no problem with that. Just sayin’.
  (4) We happen to like faith AND evidence. There’s plenty of both available. (See above)
  (5) Bitter much? The majority of the charitable work in the world is done by “redundant mystics.” For every jerk that abuses the system, there is another who is quietly doing the work that peoples’ money was sent to support.
  (6) If He doesn’t exist, then what does it matter? If He does, then wouldn’t it make sense to follow His rules (especially if they are for our own benefit)? The fact that we are “sinners” just means that God is perfect and we fall short of that. Is that so unbelievable?
  (7) I actually agree with this one. I just don’t think you should solely rely upon it, either.
  (8) I think our disagreement here would be over which one of us is “ignorant of reality.”
  (9) “There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” (Galatians 3:28) I don’t think that’s as divisive as you make
  
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- ScoobyCheese
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:24pm
  (10) They would be wasting their lives and talents if they weren’t pastors (if that is their true calling).
  You do not have to agree with what pastors do, but you certainly do not have to belittle the entire profession, either. I don’t think all atheists are immoral, petty, elitists who just want to make everyone as miserable as they are, just because I happen to know of a few who fit that description.
  Ease up on the meanness, that is if you truly want to get your point across.
  
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- minorityconservative2
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 6:59pm
  (1) Preach abominable Christian teachings, like homosexuals are intrinsically immoral, or slavery is acceptable (oh right, MOST of you stopped doing that after the American civil war, my mistake)
  
  Implying some of us are racists is certainly belittling. No modern day CHRISTian would think slavery is anything but wrong. They would not be a true CHRISTian if they did.
  
  (2) Waste a second of your time praying to a being you have no reason to believes exists, that wouldn’t need your prayers
  
  Wasters of time praying = belittling. GOD doesn’t need my prayers, I do and you can’t tell me I don’t.
  
  (5) Con people into giving money to support your farce, ostensibly a charity, but with a massive overhead going to redundant mystics like yourselves so you can spread your poisonous bald assertions.
  
  Calling people cons is certainly and saying we spread poison is belittling.
  
  (7) Convince people to reject the use of their own reasoning and inquisitive nature.
  
  I laugh at this so much. I watch Ancient Aliens and use my inquisitive nature all the time dude (or dudet). I try very hard to reason out how this all fits to together like one giant puzzle. I can tell you the pastors don’t have it all right and neither do the scientists. The supernatural is of great interest to me. I just see things in a different light than most people who hold to their dogma and their atheism.
  
  (8) Dupe people into thinking ignorance of reality is an acceptable and healthy way to live a
  
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- minorityconservative2
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 7:15pm
  I didn’t say I need violence to defend my beliefs and I am never proud when someone uses violence in the name of CHRISTianity. It makes me wonder whether they are a CHRISTian or not in fact.
  
  Thank you but the vast majority of violence in this world today surrounding religion is not because of CHRISTianity, it is surrounding Islam.
  
  “It is quite cowardly to hit someone you know can’t or won’t hit back.”
  “It’s quite irrational to think responding violently to criticism of your beliefs is rational–if they are TR”
  
  That was not meant literally and you know it. So why bring out the you are violent over your religion card? That is ridiculous and you are just trying to be annoying.
  
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- sonseeker
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 9:50pm
  @3rd
  Although you are annoying as all get out, I actually enjoy reading some of your well reasoned posts. I am too tired to respond to everything so I will just single out a couple.
  
  (2) Waste a second of your time praying to a being you have no reason to believes exists, that wouldn’t need your prayers (presumably by your own theology), and that wouldn’t do anything about them …
  I havve plenty of reasons to know He exists, and they are my reasons…No, He doesn.t need my prayers, I do!
  
  (10) Waste your life and talent as a pastor.
  
  If I have wasted y life and talent as a pastor and I am wrong (ie we cease to exist) then I am out nothing but if I am right, I have gained everything.
  
  I like what Peter said,”we have not followed after cunningly devised fables but have witnessed these things with our own eyes.”
  
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- louise
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 6:32pm
  third archon said,
  “I have disdain for believing any idea upon faith, rather than evidence–it is foolish and dangerous. I understand why people do it, and I don’t hate them for it.”
  ___________
  Will the sun come up tomorrow? Will we experience spring after winter? Will water quench thirst? Will food curb hunger?
  These questions are answered by faith in evidence. God has already given everyone “the evidence”
  ~~For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.~~Romans 1:20
  
  Report this comment
DarthMims
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 1:18pm
#11. Don’t get involved in politics. People go to church to hear the word of God, not who they should vote for to avoid a tax.

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Blacktooth
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 1:15pm
They should never profess belief in the trinity doctrine.

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- BlackCrow
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 1:19pm
  So they should all become Muslim?
  
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- DarthMims
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 1:20pm
  I’m pretty sure that’s a requirement to be a Christian.
  
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- Blacktooth
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 1:36pm
  Many people do not know what the trinity doctrine is, here is the definition:
  
  Definition: The central doctrine of religions of Christendom. According to the Athanasian Creed, there are three divine Persons (the Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost), each said to be eternal, each said to be almighty, none greater or less than another, each said to be God, and yet together being but one God. Other statements of the dogma emphasize that these three “Persons” are not separate and distinct individuals but are three modes in which the divine essence exists. Thus some Trinitarians emphasize their belief that Jesus Christ is God, or that Jesus and the Holy Ghost are Jehovah.
  
  This is Not a Bible teaching.
  
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- hcartexas
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 1:36pm
  BlackCrow…….God, Christ and the Holy Spirit are not the same Person. Claiming Christ as God, is blasphemy. Modern day Christians/Christianity are insane, inane, and headed to hell. If you don’t agree, just sing your 7,11 songs (seven verses eleven times), hang out with your effiminate Christian loser, dork friends, attend your “motovational” sermons every week, and teach Sunday school. I and other like me will read the Bilbe, use common sense directed by Divine providence and know the truth.
  
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- TAKING OUR GOV. BACK
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:02pm
  Trinitarianism is a different animal than believing in the trinity. Sounds weird but it’s the truth. One involves the teachings of the Gnostic’s and the other does not.
  
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- L.B.Stephens
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 8:46pm
  TAKING OUR GOV. BACK,
  
  Can you supply more information on that?
  
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Cavallo
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 1:13pm
Most of those sum up to: Don’t be a d*uchebag

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Ducky 1
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 1:10pm
Sadly sounds like too many of the “church” leaders of today!

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- Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
  Posted on December 6, 2012 at 2:00pm
  You may be surprised, a number of church leaders do their best to live to the examples and directives of the bible and of God, and Christ’s life on earth.
  
  The main problem becomes when a pastor reaches to a certain stage of authority, power and position in a organization, the subtle poison of “me, myself and I” can begin to creep in and slowly corrupt them from the core outward.
  
  The higher the elevated position of the messenger and leader of a flock, the more of a target they become for the Devil to tempt.
  
  This is one reason Jesus told all of us “By their fruits you shall know them.” Always look to the deeds and the life they live to confirm what is being said and done.
  
  Mind you, no pastor is perfect, we all have problems and face trials as all humanity does, yet we are to strive through to overcome them with faith in Jesus and by the grace from God. One problem I still fight against to this day is my own anger, often with myself for not fulfilling a life as Christ did on this world.
  
  I admit to that problem with the anger directed at myself when asked, and when someone asks why I do that, I explain – I see how far others have come in their walks with Christ, and how far back I see myself; and that I deal with this problem by asking God to help me get up and keep going in the duty He has set for me to do.
  
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