Education
Could Texas Really Secede From The Union? The Answer Is…
Could Texas succeed in seceding from the United States of America? Here are some very valuable facts on the matter as provided by C.G.P. Grey’s YouTube channel.
Texas was an independent nation for a decade
Photo Credit: youtube
Texas had its own Presidents
Photo Credit: youtube
…and currency
Photo Credit: youtube
If Texas was an independent country today it would be the 46th largest country in the world by population
Photo Credit: youtube
It would be the 13th largest economy in the world
Photo Credit: youtube
…making it comparable with Australia
Photo Credit: youtube
Independence for most states would be a financial disaster
Photo Credit: youtube
Not for Texas, it gives more money to the federal government than it gets back
Photo Credit: youtube
…and could give its own citizens a tax break if it were independent
Photo Credit: youtube
Based on it’s state constitution, Texas could also separate into 5 independent states without the permission of congress
Photo Credit: youtube
But can Texas legally secede?
Photo Credit: youtube
Watch to find out:
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Comments (639)
grimmster
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:21pmThe video states that, most people here in Texas “dont” want secession.Ok, lets say that statements correct,now lets look at who doesnt. First,any and all who are on the govt. dole,that would mean that anyone recieving odumbass money, would have to move out of the state.Second, college students from out of state,you know, the ones that live here 6 months out of the year,and get to vote not only here, but their home state as well.Third, large corporations that recive fed govt money,cut off their meal ticket.they are gone.Fourth, illegals,doesnt matter where they are from, if Texas secedes, we make our own immagration laws,and it wont favor illegals.Fifth,the northern states,texas sends a **** load of its rescources, nat. gas, coal,fuel oil etc..up north,shut the supply off, and you have yankee popcicles….So, can we “legally” secede, depends on who’s law you look at, will we secede,using force, there’s always that possibility….Dont push us Washington……….
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Hoax And Chains
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:04pmWell, if Texas does secede, this self-reliant Yankee would love to move there! My brother already moved there and he LOVES Texas. He said he’ll never move back to the welfare state of New York… or even leave Texas at all..
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SendTheMeteors
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:08pmTexas pays more money to the Federal Government than it receives? Not anymore, and it hasn’t for a decade according to the Dallas Morning News: http://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/headlines/20120805-texas-can-no-longer-complain-that-it-gives-more-than-it-gets-from-federal-government.ece
—–
One frequently cited validation for that go-it-alone attitude is that Texans get a bad deal by paying more in federal taxes than they receive in federal spending. For decades, that was true: Texas received 90 cents or less for every dollar its residents and businesses sent to Washington.
But that’s no longer the case. Thanks to demographic shifts, a surge in military spending and other factors, Texas has crossed the break-even line. In six of the past eight years, including the entire tenure of President Barack Obama, Texans got more out of the federal Treasury than they put in.
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Mil-Dot
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:11pmSuccession doesn’t have anything to do with laws. Laws are nothing more than ink on a piece of paper. If Texas tries to suceed, it won’t be lawyers resolving the conflict, it will be blood. I
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Shamrock241
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:12pmYou will have many volunteers from other states for your military all we ask is permanent residency once Texas has wipped america.
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Silvertruth
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:13pmIf Texas voted internally to secceed, Washington would let it. There is no way the average US Citizen is ready to go to war to keep a state. Those ships have all sailed. No, we are going to go to war over socialism vs. capitalism, not states rights. States are impotent these days.
Texas wants to secceed because it like a few other states want their rights back. However, if Texas wanted to go, it might be able to drag a few other states along with it.
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Peace@Last
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:20pmIf this happens, i believe my family would be moving to Texas!!
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Keatonc33
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:49pm75% of texans say they don’t want to secede. The people of texas don’t want it. America doesn’t want it. The traitors in texas who do want to secede are vastly out numbered. It will NEVER happen. enjoy the pipe dream.
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coachsmac
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:50pmI will gladly take my old, tired bones to Texas and fight for her secession!! This is no longer the United States, but a fractured land being ruled by a self-styled Ruler who thinks he answers to noone!! God Bless Texas!!! I truly believe South Carolina and quite a few other states would be right there with Texas!
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Keatonc33
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:51pmIsn’t it interesting that of all those states that pay more to the government then they get back.. Texas is the only red state! The rest. The blue states. The “welfare states” as you would say. pay more to the government then they get back.. Crazy huh? kind of a monkey wrench in your whole blue states are welfare baby havens argument.
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saranda
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:57pmhappy to invest in Texas oil production, equally happy to not have to live there. i find Dallas to be impersonal, unfriendly and filled with people looking for easy money or people who have made money and feel the need to show it to everyone.
for me i am ambivalent to their staying or going, as the oil I produce will stay in place.
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CobraBill
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 6:08pmThose who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
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ltb
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 6:10pmIf Texas wants to secede, who cares if it can Constitutionally? Obama uses the Constitution like a piece of toilet paper, so since he’s set a precedent of ignoring the Constitution, Texas can pretty much do whatever it wants based on the example Obama has set. I’ll fight for Texas’ independence, just tell me where to sign up.
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forthepeople
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 6:10pmI would bring my 2 small business there is a new york minute if they get away from washington DC…..Seriously a no brainer vs rules , regulations and hefty taxes .
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bbyrdhouse
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 6:13pm@MIL-DOT
That has been my point all along. When I hear people say “States can not secede from the Union” I think to myself … say’s who, says what?
The whole point of secession is getting out from under the tyranny of the Federal Government and its ****-eyed rules/regulations and tax & spend mentality.
Its like telling a kid they are not allowed to drink soda … they may not be “allowed” to, but if they want it badd enough they will find a way to get it.
If Texas does secede then I’m moving there (If they will have me).
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johnnylingo
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 6:21pmI notice in the voting that it is the population centers where the takers concentrated that the liberal ideas are forced upon the rest of the populace. There are lots of Texas minded people in the less populated counties. Full of producing farmers, ranchers, orchardists who produce the food for the parasites among us. Let all those welfare promoters suck each others blood till they are few in number and this country will blossom as a rose again.
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ltb
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 6:26pmHow about all of the Christians in the current U.S. move to Texas and we let all non-Christians leave? We could form the Christian Republic of Texas based on a strict originalist interpretation of the U.S. Constitution. While the old Obama States of America slide into the sewer, the Christian Republic of Texas would become one of the most blessed nations on earth.
This seems like it would be a win win situation. Liberals could have the other 49 states, where they would be able to force their fascist anti-God views on anyone they pleased and Christians would have our own independent nation founded on Jesus Christ just like America’s founding fathers intended.
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ginger100
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 6:33pmApply the socialist islamo fascist tactics to the secessionist movement
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Git-R-Done
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 6:36pmKeaton – A majority of colonists didn’t want to break away from the British Empire during the Colonial days of America and look what happened.
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WaterTheTree
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 6:47pmHow about a de-facto secession?
Have the State of Texas proclaim that they will not grant juristiction to federal agents nor allow extradiction for any Federal tax-related charges. Then pass 100000% of value property taxes on any property owned by a government other than the State of Texas, making it practically impossible for the Federal government to own property or equipment within the state. While they are at it, require Tax stamps for any identification cards with the words “Internal Revenue Service” printed on it, making the manditory sentance for posessing an untaxed IRS card five years in a chain gang.
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crazyrightwingmom
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 6:49pmI’m coming…my “baby” (age 31) lives there!
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subic
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 7:13pmWith all the other states showing interest in succession recently, it wouldn’t be hard to convince a few of them to join Texas.
Ship out all the progs, libs, welfare moochers, criminals in prisons, illegals et al, and send them on their way. Build a wall at the border region and man it with militia with orders to shoot to kill. Same goes for the northern most border. Any of the above trying to infiltrate back in gets lead poisoning!
Allow these fools to self destruct under their fraudulent president. The people did it in the old Soviet Union, why not here?
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FoxholeAtheist
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 7:16pmIt’s not going to happen so piss off.
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subic
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 7:27pmWhats the matter KEATON, you afraid of some true americans seeking freedom & liberty like our founders intended over oppression from your racist commie n fraud Obammamamma?
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subic
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 7:31pmBurn in Hell ATHIEST!
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jhontomsen
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 7:50pmAnyone notice anything about all those “supposed” taker states on the federal dole.. with the exception of texas (and I’m not sure that’s correct)
Washington State
Oregon
California
Nevada
Colorado
Florida
Michigan
Minnesota
Illinois
Wisconsin
Pennsylvania
New York
Massachusetts
New Jersey
New Hampshire
Connecticut
Rhode Island
Florida..
It happens that all those states which give more to the federal gov’t are democratic states.. All those states which take more from the federal gov’t are BRIGHT RED REPUBLICAN states…
Oh the irony….
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Keatonc33
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 7:59pmSUBIC.. haha what oppression? name one instance in which you have been oppressed do to Obama. and JHONTOSMEN Isn’t that hilarious! All the left leaning “welfare” states pay more to the government then they get back! and all they fiscally responsible right wing states are the ones “sucking from the government teet” Perfect! I have yet to hear anyone respond to this!
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muffythetuffy
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 8:02pmNOT NOW BUT ITS COMING
America with Obama and his Communist Party is setting. America as it is is heading for the trash heap of other nations. Norway, Sweden, England, Japan, Italy, Turkey, and Spain were all major powers in the past. Spain ruled the world just 300 years ago. Why you ask? Freedom and Liberty, the USA was created to protect Freedom and Liberty and it thrived as no other nation on earth ever did. Most American people (illegal aliens) no longer care about Liberty and Freedom and no longer even know what it is. Those Americans who still want Liberty and Freedom will secede and break up as other nations have done. The USSR ended because the Russian people no longer believed in Communist after 60 years of a failed economy and broke up into 15 separate nations.
I hope secession happens in my lifetime. I want to see how Obamacites pay for their communist dream state without the income taxes of Texas and others. Maybe China will continue to bankroll the Old America or it may just become the Eastern Chinese Province of North America.
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muffythetuffy
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 8:16pmTEXAS SECESSION IS A CERTAINTY
Texans feelings against secession today will change in the coming years as the Obamavic Communists stabilize their hold on Washington and eliminate the Constitution. As the economy tanks into a fourth world economy Texans will change their minds. When they do, they will find other states wanting to join.
If Alaska refuses to join the new nation, it will be discarded and returned to Russia in exchange for Russia’s military assistance in defending Texas against what is left of Washington’s armed forces. We cannot defend it anyway. France gave birth to the USA and Russia may one day give birth to the new Free USA, not because they support Freedom but because they want Alaska.
SEE IT CAN HAPPEN, NO NATION LASTS FOR EVER.
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TEXASGRANNY73
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 8:18pm@KEATON33 Ya’ll are about dumber than dirt. Texas dirt. Unless you are a Texan ya’ll should MYOB. Ya’ll can hardly say 25% doesn’t account for much if yall don’t know the history of Texas. For beginners start with the Alamo. Now, let me assure you if we as Americans should lose the Constitution and it be considered null and void not much telling what Texas might do. Ya think we are bound to the UN? Or a dictator wanna be? And the blue states can have any and all of our welfare recipients move in with you cause you’re probably a real nice good Samaritan liberal and munificent with your own money um hmm. Of course Texans don’t want to secede. We’re Americans first. Obviously others think so cause so many are moving here. We just don’t suffer fools gladly. Not saying you are one but ya need to get a check up from the neck up.
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alinmatt
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 8:22pm@jhontomsen and Keaton, the states receiving more than they pay in are farm states with immigrant labor. Crops are frequently subsidized and so is the labor. All of that subsidy money comes back to the other states in the form of cheaper groceries, but a lot of crops are sold overseas making groceries cheaper in 3rd world countries.
I will say that you do have a point though. I live in a right to work state where the wages are so piss poor that the father and mother can work full time and still qualify for welfare. A newer vehicle in my area is one from the ‘90s.
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preterism101
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 8:34pmThe statistic cited that only 25% of Texans want to secede is from a 2009 Rasmussen study. This has changed. A WOAI-TV (San Antonio) station had an online survey after the election showed that 54% are ready to secede. Besides, it does not take a majority. There were two men in 1776 that are responsible for American’s secession from Britain: Samuel Adams (who was responsible for the Boston Tea Party), and Patrick Henry (Give me liberty or give me death). If there was a fiery leader in Texas now–even one–we would be outa here.
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Wolfgang the Gray
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 8:59pmKeatonC33 & Jhontomsen – So if California, New York, & the other blue states are in such great shape, then we can automatically say no to a bailout for them since they are going bankrupt, right?
My family moved to Texas when I was in 7th grade & I stayed there until I graduated from high school. I thought Texas was great (just missed the mountains of Colorado where I lived before). I live in Arizona now, but if Texas broke away to get back to the Constitution & the morals of our Founders, I would be willing to move there & fight against the tyranny of Obama & the socialist/progressive attacks upon our 1st, 2nd, 4th, & 10th Amendment rights that are currently being destroyed by a president who violates the Constitution by going around congress instead of working through the system. This country is not what it was when I was growing up and that is a very sad thing.
Of course, if Texas did break away from the Obamanation, hopefully Arizona & many other states would go with them. I would rather fight for freedom than live under socialism.
Ginger100 – If you would rather live in a country where the Constitution no longer serves as the rule of law, where the government punishes people for creativity, hard work, and being successful, then you can move to New York, California, Michigan, or any of the other states that are becoming more like Cuba and the USSR than they are America.
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Wolfgang the Gray
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 8:59pmIt isn’t the law that would stop (or try to stop) Texas, it would be the Feds. I am sure that Obama would have no problem firing on his own people if one of the biggest payers into Washington pulled their funds. What on Earth would Obama do if he couldn’t blow other people’s money? On the good side, Bell Helicopter is in Texas so they could produce their own systems for defense. Also, as previously stated, a lot of food, oil, etc is exported from Texas to the rest of the US. Also, a lot of people in the military would refuse to fight their own countrymen on behalf of the President that has shown for 4-years that he doesn’t care about them. Add any other states that would side with Texas and they could pull it off.
Guess we will see what happens. Obama is already working under the radar to ban semi-auto (not machine guns for your liberal idiots out there that don’t know anything about a firearm), which counts for just about every weapon in the country. If he does that, the fuse will be lit.
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never96
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 9:29pmJefferson addressed the issue of New England secession by saying that if they seceded, “God bless them both, & keep them in the union if it be for their good, but separate them, if it be better.” He also wrote that “If any state in the Union will declare that it prefers separation . . . to a continuance in the union,” then “I have no hesitation in saying, ‘let us separate’”. Jefferson believed that the right of secession was absolutely necessary if America was to avoid tyrannical government.
Alexander Hamilton, defended the right of secession by saying that “To coerce the States [to remain in the Union] is one of the maddest projects that was ever devised” and thought of “a government that can only exist by the sword,” with “Congress marching the troops of one State into the bosom of another” a moral abomination.
Alexis de Tocqueville observed that “The Union was formed by the voluntary agreement of the States; and in uniting together they have not forfeited their nationality . . . . If one of he states chooses to withdraw from the compact, it would be difficult to disprove its right of doing so, and the Federal Government would have no means of maintaining its claims directly either by force or right.”
John Quincy Adams believed that if a state or states wanted to secede, then “a more perfect Union” could be formed “by dissolving that which could no longer bind .
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cbrown
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 9:51pmHeard Austin wants to secede from Texas. It pays more and get less.
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Twobyfour
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 10:25pmCBrown, and what does Austin produce? Aww right, guvmmint jobs! Creative accounting aside, that means Austin takes far more in than send out, from taxpayers.
I’d let em create their own li’l Austin Soviet Socialist Republic. When after 5 or so years they’d beg to get back, I’ll let them simmer in the cesspool for at least 2 decades, so they really learn their lesson.
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Keep Your Skepticals On
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 10:32pm“All the left leaning “welfare” states pay more to the government then they get back!”
That is the result of progressive tax rates, income inequality and population density in the left leaning states. Pretty much every state that gives more that it gets have large economic centers which house the very rich, which pick up the majority of the federal tax tab. The numbers are state gross, not per capita. Wyoming is one example. It is the least populated state but is also #13 for median income. So while household income is very good there, they lack both the “1%” that already foot the majority of the bill for the federal government as well as the volume of middle-income earners to be significant compared to other states.
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VanceUppercut
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 10:53pm@Hoax And Chains
I lived in Texas briefly (8 months), and my brother lived there for about two years, and we’ve both said the same thing many times–man, are we glad to be out of Texas!
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VanceUppercut
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 10:57pm@jhontomsen
I was just about to point out the same thing. LOL. Unfortunately many of the people who post on these boards are completely insane, so logic and facts will not matter to them.
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Keatonc33
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:13amWolfgang.. you want to talk debt and bailouts? Texas has just as much debt as New York. the two are virtually identical
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k2weaver
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:29amthat’s a fact TEXAS Jack. fight to live or die. born Texas.
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rawmilker
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 1:58amMUFFY, we’ll see it happen within 4 years. It’s not going to be pretty for the proggies….lol alittle talk about secession and the libs are going ape-sH#t on this thread. haha…whats the matter libs… afraid you might have do do some real work to survive?
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Beck_Art_Obama_In_PeePee
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 3:07amgrimmster – “Dont push us Washington”
Hate to point this out, but Washington DC Progressives(communists) ARE pushing us over the cliff. But no one has fired that 1st shot yet …
jhontomsen – “Anyone notice anything about all those “supposed” taker states …”
Yeah I saw that. California, New York, Massachusetts … “giver” states? LOL! The map-maker is color blind (or Democrap).
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Beck_Art_Obama_In_PeePee
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 3:29amHere’s a BETTER idea … Texas (and allies) invade and conquer Washington DC & it’s embedded commie’s rats nest:
* Every “representative” (commies) hunted down for treason, trial, and complimentary necktie.
* Do the same state by state
* Seize the Fed & Fed banks & assets — any “debt” neutralized (treason, trials, & neckties for all).
* The U.N. kicked off American soil — any claim of “debt” neutralized at nuclear gun-point.
* All illegals (foreign invaders) ejected with prejudice (leave the boarders temporarily open for them to flee)
* Declare all “laws” outside the U.S. Constitution NULL & VOID
* Disband all STANDING ARMIES — ex: local & state police
* Disband all federal bureaucracies — ex: IRS
* (add lots more)
* And, of course, celebrate with the obligatory fireworks & cook-outs.
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mersey
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:51amThe fact of the matter is that the progressives are pushing a large percent of the American population to a tipping point. You can only upset people for so long until there is some kind of revolt. Is secession a pipe dream? Only time will tell. But if Texas goes, there will be a domino effect with other states. It’s not just the land that changes, but the people in those states. The conservatives will flow to the states in secession and the progressive/liberals will go to the other states. Would there be violence? That would depend on the federal government and if they are prepared to use the military against the people. I live in a blue state now, but I’d leave tomorrow if needed. We would also need to allow the business owners to move to the states they think are the most profitable to do business with. I can see the blue states in a world of trouble within five years.
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Quiata
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 6:14amBut why are the Royalists so angry? ;^)
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Standing With Israel
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 6:31amMoney “returned” from the Federal Government is not really returned. Of 1 million paid to the Feds, 900k would be “returned” to pay for a Federally sponsored project Texans do not want or need, contractors and suppliers would be the relatives and supporters of politicians and the money, though paid out of state to them, would be considered a “gift” to Texas.
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Bill Rowland
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 7:25amWe can but dream. I married a woman who was raised in MD in the DC area. She wouldn’t to back for any reason. When we go back to visit she can’t take more than a week of it.
That is an attitude that I see in a lot of immigrants from the east and from CA. They cannot believe the freedom (CHL readily avalable) and the casual regard of distance (It only 200 miles to Houston), the speed limit (75mph in most of the state 80-85 is a couple of places.) The lower taxes and no income tax. They don’t want to go back where they came from.
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loriann12
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 7:28amTexas has the largest National Guard. All we have to do is bring everyone home and we have an army. And I have my doubts about how many “don’t” want to leave. I’ve been in Texas for 7 years (sorry, got here as fast as I could), and if Texas leaves the Union, I’ll stand with Texas. Washington has to realize, it’s not an empty threat and it wasn’t done in jest or not seriousness. Like you I say don’t push us, Washington.
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loriann12
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 7:32am@SendTheMeteors – Really? You’re going to cite the Dallas News as a source? Dallas would probably leave Texas if it seceded. It’s almost as liberal as Austin. I wouldn’t buy that rag if they paid me to have it.
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loriann12
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 7:36am@saranda – as I told sendthemeteors, Dallas is liberal. If you come to Texas and want to live near the Metroplex, choose Garland. I can’t imagine how good Garland would be if we got rid of all the illegals. Right now we’re probably over half conservative. If you want an even more conservative, friendly place, move to Tyler. It’s a bit out in the sticks, but they’re nice.
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HappyConservative
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 7:41amI live in Texas and would absolutley LOVE to see my state secede. The USA is going to hell in a handbasket thanks to the liberal media that will lie and cheat to steal elections and pretty much the destruction of the conservative party(ies). I don’t think we will ever see another president that isn’t a demoncrap. So yes, while I know it won’t happen in my lifetime maybe it will in my kids/grandkids. Texas is A GREAT state and would make an even better country!!
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Balzy
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 7:59am@SendTheMeteors
Dude Rick is a badass governer, you have no idea how long and hard he kept their heads above water. If they were to secede, they could give an adequate amount of troops to aid old america if barry needed it. Texas could really drop back to a more capitalistic prosperity, the state government would actually work on adult issues like immigration reform where Rick had some good ideas on that issue if you remember the debates. Texas government would start creating more jobs without having to fork the people’s hard-earned money over to barry and his administrations wasteful mentality, because barry just puts people on programs. He’s not trying to help people get jobs, or else we wouldn’t lose so many jobs just to gain a lump some here and there. Rick could have a chance to show the world what Texas could really accomplish without his businesses suffering under countless regulations. hell they can still be part of america, just let the people have their money back! You just can’t seem to figure it out barry, it’s ok. no one expects you to be perfect, but now you’re flat out stealing from us. WHAT GIVES? We can be a charitable people as long as we feel financially secure, if we have to fight tooth and nail just to survive THEN we all start getting stingy. It’s not our fault, we’ve been paying this whole time. We’ve paid for every mistake you guys have made, now give up the power trip and let Texans have their freedom JUST THIS ONCE.
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Quiata
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 8:10am@VANCEUPPERCUT “I was just about to point out the same thing. LOL. Unfortunately many of the people who post on these boards are completely insane, so logic and facts will not matter to them.”
That must explain your presence here.
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Cavallo
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 9:45amI am at a loss as to why the libs and leftists would want to keep Texas? Don’t they see it as a religious zealot center, full of backward hicks? Why not just let them go? Personally I wouldn’t mind if California left. I think the US needs to be divided up into three new countries. NorthEast North-America, CentralSouth North-America, and West North-America. All countries have access to ports and the ocean and all have access to areas that produce natural resources. We could even have a NAFTA like trade agreement if necessary.
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Jaycen
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 10:07amNothing like Progressive Socialists in their child-like mentalities. Because a State “takes in more federal dollars than it puts in” doesn’t mean the entire state runs on federal dollars. The state will not cease to exist if you cut off federal dollars. In fact, many fewer dollars will be flowing out, and those who receive federal dollars will have to move or find a new means of income.
Good God, but that’s a stupid argument.
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Thomas
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 10:18amI want to go to Texas and let these socialist have the United States. One thing I know is if you buck gravity you are going to lose and sometimes the addicted to government will have to reach rock bottom before they see their condition for what it is. I suppose they will call that racist.
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ltb
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 10:35amWaterTheTree, those are excellent ideas.
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ginger100
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 10:49amWoops, I meant that Texas secessionist should use the tactics of the minority left.
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ltb
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 10:51amI know one thing… with all of the division and hatred that Obama has been fomenting during the past several years, something has to give. When Conservative Americans finally wake up and realize there are 158,000,000+ of us and only 535 power drunk bureaucrats in Congress and 1 anti-American communist in the White House, there will be Hell to pay. I have a feeling that time will come shortly after the average middle class American discovers his income taxes will be increasing by at least $2,200 next year. BTW, that $2,200 doesn’t even take into consideration all of the other taxes that are coming down the pike to pay for Obamacare.
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tifosa
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 11:02amTX population is 26m, a fraction of 1% signed a secession petition and part of those are from out-of-state…so what?
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ltb
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 11:21amginger100, you’re right. There are 2-1/2 times more conservatives in America than liberals (48% to 20%, respectively). If conservatives organized effective boycotts against advertisers that run ads on ABC, CBC, NBC, CNN, MSNBC etc. and against theaters that show liberal propaganda garbage like “Lincoln,” we could take the media and Hollywood back in two years. We also need to take back the courts and our school boards. People like Glenn Beck need to stop turning up their noses at boycotts and start using the tactics of the Left, or we will continue to lose.
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ltb
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 11:27amTIFOSA, I’d think you’d want Texas to secede. After all, men can’t marry men down here, our governor told Obama to shove his Obamacare insurance exchanges and we don’t just roll over when the FFRF tells us we can’t pray at football games. Texas stands for everything you hate, so why wouldn’t you want us to secede?
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gadgetninja
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 11:44am@ preterism101 wow i havent seen a preterist in years
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memyselfandi
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 11:49amWe can solve the majority of this country’s problems by implementing a few very simple principles…
Be good to people…
Don’t steal…
Don’t lie…
Don’t commit murder…(at any stage of development)
Be satisfied with what you have…
Respect you elders…
If you won’t work…you don’t get to eat…
Hummm…where have I heard all this before…?
The SW corner of Missouri where I live is pretty much like this already…Very low crime, 3 Churches on every corner and they are all full on Sunday mornings…We’d fit right into the new Republic of Texas.
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tifosa
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:13pmLTB, no more Texas to kick around any more?? waaaaaaaaaah!
Texas gets tons of Federal money. Will Ted Cruz be submitting a secession request at his swearing in? Will that be before or after he declines to take a FEDERAL salary and benefits?
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bintalshamsa
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:16pmI hope that Texas does secede. In less than six months, it would be a part of Mexico. LOL Without the backing of the US military, there’s nothing to prevent even more folks from moving there. Heck, there are enough Latinos that are already in Texas that they could easily win any vote to join Mexico.
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CABERNETQHS
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:20pmI can understand your thoughts, I myself would like to be somewhere isolated and off the grid, but I have a few questions; Wouldn’t further dividing this country make us more vulnerable to attack and foreign invaders. If this scenario occurs, who has the nukes? It would get very ugly with DC fighting TX and whatever terrorist group pops up. I think possibly Beck and Deminth and other groups forging a new path back to strength through small government and our constitution is worth supporting. Maybe put the Texas pride and ingenuity into a historical fight for freedom.
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SendTheMeteors
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:50pmloriann12, if you don’t believe me, how about Politifact? Texas almost always gets more than it receives, and Perry used stimulus funds – which he proclaimed he hated – to balance his budget.
http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2011/apr/22/rachel-maddow/msnbc-host-rachel-maddow-says-texas-routinely-rece/
Texas is a great state, provided you know where to live. For example, Forbes ranks Austin as the best city in the country for young people to live. Actually Houston, Dallas and San Antonio always made the top 10. Interestingly those are all liberal cities.
http://www.forbes.com/2010/12/15/best-cities-young-personal-finance-unemployment-nightlife.html
Kiplinger also rated Austin the best place to live:
http://www.kiplinger.com/magazine/archives/10-best-cities-2010-for-the-next-decade.html
Now, if you are a boring conservative, don’t move to Austin. Better move to some rural area instead.
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cspatriot
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:52pmKeaton, If you had critical thinking skills, you would realize that you are ridiculing the Red states for receiving a greater return on their investment.
The disparity between taxes and benefits is not about whether the Red States bite the hand that feeds them or whether the Blue states are too dumb to understand ROI, but is about Government inefficiencies, corruption, regulation and suppression of liberty and economic freedom…which happens under both parties.
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ltb
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:54pmTIFOSA, do you have any idea how repulsive your personality is? If you’re younger than 14 I’m embarrassed for your parents, if you’re older than 14 I’m embarrassed for you.
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GroverCleveland
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 1:07pm“Independent state for a decade . . . ?” Well, sort of. Americans settled in the Mexican territory that is now Texas as Mexican citizens, on the conditions that (1) they convert to Catholicism and (2) they not bring their slaves with them. Well, they converted in name only for the most part, and they settled the territory with their slaves (because Texans were Southerners, and consequently did not like to get their hands dirty picking cotton and harvesting sugar). Settlers pushed ever west and south, and consistently irritated the Mexican government and people by spurning the Catholic church, by owning slaves, and by encroaching on lands that did not belong to them. They came into the Union in order to have their massive debts paid, on the one hand, and because they knew they could not prevail against Mexican arms on the other. The story of Texas, far from being a story of independence, is a story of particularly abject dependence–first on the Mexican government, then on the U.S. government and army. So its not really a history on which one should pin one’s secessionist hopes. As “Big” as Texas is, Texas has never prospered except as a part of something bigger.
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Cavallo
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 1:25pmStill not a single post on why they would want Texas to stay in the Union, only claims of how miserable they would be if they left. Then let them go? No? Why?
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kryptonite
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 1:27pmBarack is the first and only POTUS to sue a state (Arizona) before the UN. Do you folks think that despicable anti-American would not butcher us worse than Saddam, Ahmednutjob and Assad combined?
KISS: Coup.
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GroverCleveland
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 1:35pmCAVALLO: There’s only one argument: because statehood is a mere republican convenience, whereas the federal stature of each state and of all the states combined is of prime importance. There is a reason one needn’t hold a passport to travel from one state to another, and that reason is federal sovereignty. Where-ever you go, you’re a citizen, regardless of the particular political climate of any particular state. No state can rob the citizenry at large of the breadth and variety of their nation merely by declaring themselves separate and sovereign. It did not work in 1861 and it will not work now.
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GroverCleveland
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 1:40pmKRYPTONITE: the administration is not suing Arizona “before the U.N.” Where do you get this stuff?
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Cavallo
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 2:58pm@Grover, I appreciate the cogent argument, although I completely disagree that the federal authority is everything, and state sovereignty is a fantasy just for the efficient operation of the central tyranny. It likely does operate as such, but not intended to operate like dictatorial empire under the constitution (The agreement on how we are to be governed). Although significant evidence exists to demonstrate we no longer live in a constitutional republic, and therefore your argument holds more water. It also further demonstrates the need and necessity for a break up the United States, likely to occur during the coming financial meltdown.
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sandrunner
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 3:32pmIf it means getting rid of all free-loaders, I’ll be there in a flash.
and let washington dc fall apart…while Texas becomes the next super power in the world.
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FoxholeAtheist
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:12pm@Subdick: Ahahahahahahahahaha
Not going to happen. Texas isn’t going anywhere ever. Idiots.
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Dismayed Veteran
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:17pm@LTB
Jesus is not mentioned in either the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution. The diety is called God, the Supreme Judge and the Creator. If you are a strict Consitutionalist, you can not read Jesus into it. We have to be satisfied with God, the Supreme Judge and the Creator. This permits many religious sects to their particular beliefs. This permits Protestants, Catholic, Jews, Hindus, Buddists, Shintos, etc to worship their own way under the law of the land. I do not believe it covers muslims since they want Shira law not our law.
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EM2T93
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 6:11pm@SENDTHEMETEORS…
As a Texan, I stopped reading your post right when you wrote, “Not according to the Dallas Morning News…”
Next time, cite a credible unbiased source.
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ltb
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 7:51pmDismayed Veteran, I posted a comment, but guess it didn’t go through. Anyway, instead of rewriting what I originally wrote, I’d like to offer a comment by Joseph Storey, who was appointed to the Supreme Court by James Madison (aka, Architect of the Constitution):
“The real object of the [First] amendment was, not to countenance [give sanction or support to; tolerate or approve], much less to advance Mahometanism [Islam], or Judaism, or infidelity [lack of religious belief; atheism], by prostrating [reducing to extreme weakness or incapacitation; overcoming] Christianity; but to exclude all rivalry among Christian sects [denominations], and to prevent any national ecclesiastical establishment [the establishment of a national church with the President being Supreme Head], which should give to an hierarchy the exclusive patronage of the national government” — Joseph Storey
TRANSLATION: The First Amendment was not about tolerating non-Christian faiths and it certainly wasn’t about denying Christianity’s importance in our Republic, the intention of the First Amendment was to prevent favoritism being shown to one denomination of Christianity over other Christian denominations through the establishment of a federal church. In other words, our founding fathers didn’t want a Church of America, akin to the Church of England, dictating what doctrines (e.g., full immersion baptism, pre-determination, etc) Christians should follow in the United States.
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SendTheMeteors
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 9:36pmEM2T93, how about Politifact?
http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2011/apr/22/rachel-maddow/msnbc-host-rachel-maddow-says-texas-routinely-rece/
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VoteBushIn12
Posted on December 8, 2012 at 12:08am@Hoax and Chains.
You know what other state was highlighted in green on that map of states that pay more to the feds than they receive? That “welfare state” of New York.
So cram it.
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kryptonite
Posted on December 8, 2012 at 1:09am@GROVERCLEVELAND
I stand corrected. This happened two years ago, and I got my facts mixed up. Traitor Holder sued Arizona in federal court, and Traitor Obama reported Arizona to the UN Human Rights Council.
Here is Brewer’s response to this vile, unprecedented act:
http://www.azgovernor.gov/dms/upload/PR_082710_LetterSecretaryClinton.pdf
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PrinceMyshkin23
Posted on December 8, 2012 at 2:12amYou’re threatening to use force against the most powerful military in the history of civilization.
Yet another example of the stupidity of Texans.
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koltsfan
Posted on December 8, 2012 at 11:22amOklahoma would be right there with Texas.
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simpletony
Posted on December 8, 2012 at 12:36pmThey ALREADY pushed you and keep pushing and are not going to back off. obama makes no sense whatsoever and if TX doesn’t move forward to get rid of this destructive process, all the tough talk about TX becomes….ZERO
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Balzy
Posted on December 8, 2012 at 4:03pm@sendthemeteors
i see how it is
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R.Waher
Posted on December 8, 2012 at 9:28pmKay, lemme explain something to the libs snickering about Texas taking stimulus money. Let’s say–and for any confused libs, this is a hypothetical example–the Feds tax $100 billion from your state. In a recent stimulus package, they promise you $20 billion for whatever. The Government’s already sucked out $100 billion from your state, and now you have a chance to get a fifth of it back–why the hell wouldn’t you? Oh, but taking that money makes a “hypocrite.”
Let me propose a different idea. How about the Government only tax your state for $80 billion in the first place, then not bother with the $20 billion in stimulus money, hm? Why don’t we do that?
Oh, but can’t we do that. Because then the Government couldn’t pick and choose winners. Then the Government couldn’t ride in like a knight in shining armor and save the day. And then the snarky libs couldn’t snark at the state for taking its money back… and that’s the most important thing, isn’t it?
You stupid libs, you think we aren’t aware of the scam you’re pulling and the no-win scenarios you try to force us into?
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ltb
Posted on December 9, 2012 at 12:11amPrinceMyshkin23, here’s a newsflash: Most American soldiers have zero respect for that communist in the White House. Our soldiers understand the contempt that Obama and Liberals have for the military, so given that fact, do you really think they are going to follow an order by Obama to murder American Citizens? Actually, I’m thinking they would probably surround the White House and Capitol Hill long before they would ever consider harming any Texans.
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WIZDOM833
Posted on December 10, 2012 at 12:03am@ Reportthemeteor
Why don’t you read the whole article before using as a weapon. Yes, maybe we are getting more back than we put in now but only by $.03 AND the reason is cause of military spending that the government is continuing to fund along with the other spending that Obama has done that affects Texas and the other 49 States. Yes, it said that not one of the states gives more than it receives NOW!!!
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teaisstronger
Posted on December 10, 2012 at 11:23amSECESSION HAS ALREADY STARTED
The USA really ended some time ago during the past ten years. The USA is now a Lawless Nation now ruled by a Communist Troika made up of a Congress, President, and Supreme Court. Rights have been discarded and only the military force of the Federal Government now matters. Our economy has been deliberately destroyed to render us defenseless because money is power and the Government is taking our power by force with the approval of the Troika Court.
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PathDan
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:19pm“Folks, Texas independence is “inevitable.”
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JRook
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:30pmGo for it. And the US should then remove all military bases along with all federal spending. Texas should then pay back the US for any investment in airports, shipping terminals, VA hospitals. Medicare and Medicaid payments to hospitals should end and of course all aid to education, including federal loans. Something tells me the BS economics noted above didn’t take in to consideration what might be lost.
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mdlwoods
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:43pmResponse to JRook:
Did you not get the fact that Texas Pays into Federal Government more than it gets back??? Texas takes that money and supports its own medicare/medicaid programs, much more efficiently than the Federal Government ever could.
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Baddoggy
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:46pmRook…We could also hang all idiots like you on main street. Burn all Federal buildings and most off all kick all the illegals out into your state!!! Payback is hell, so payback you would get.
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VaARNG_Guardsman
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:48pmJROOK:
The US dollar is collapsing…..your funny money is losing value everyday. If you want to stay on the titanic you can….. secession is the best thing for Texas. The real US debt (unfunded guarantees) are in the 100′s of trillions.
God Bless Texas…..
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americansfightingforcommonsense
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:53pmI’ll tell you what,.. I would become a resident of Texas if so. Our Federal Government/Obama are out of control and need to be reigned in.
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TEIN
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:58pmYeah@JROOK…the USA would loose most of its oil refineries….
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Cavallo
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:02pmJRook, I think what Pathdan might be referring to is that the economic collapse of the country is inevitable, and therefore nothing you have listed will be really around in much of a capacity anyway. Only during a financial collapse would such an attempt be seriously undertaken anyway. The financial collapse also lessens the ability of the federal government to oppose the separation of Texas militarily.
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aproudinfidel
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:05pmI hope they figure out how to do it.God Bless Texas. We in CA can only watch with envy.
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Hoax And Chains
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:05pmHey JROOK, you missed one important little fact. Texas pays MORE to the federal government than it receives. Take your federal money and shove it.
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Rob in Katy
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:09pmJROOK: does the term “nationalize” sound familiar? Happens a lot to US assets, you should be used to it.
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Silvertruth
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:09pmJRook-
You are BS applying the argument one way, what the US Government helped build *IN* Texas, it does not go the other way and say what Texas money built *IN* the rest of the country. What happens in a situation like this is it’s usually considered ‘a wash’ and both sides just let whatever is owed to the other be forgiven. Likely, whatever debt Texas has financially will be fully owned by Texas and not underwritten by the United States anymore. Strangely, given the superior state of the Texas economy, it would probably get a better credit deal than the US currently does.
Texas would have a much higher burden to bear if it left, being a country isn’t the same as being a state but the advantage is: it controls everything from then on! It would have to pay for a military, (probably along the lines of Canada, taking advantage of US protection zones) and all those services. Knowing Texans though, this would be just fine with them.
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searcher619
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:15pmDream on. Like it or not the reality is we are stronger as a single country than Texas could ever be alone. Secession is a romantic notion but it will never happen. Unless you think the average Texan is willing to go to war with the US to break away and sacrifice MANY of their sons and daughters in the process. Things in this country are bad but bad enough to see this as a worth while price? I think not.
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Shamrock241
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:16pmTo Bad lrook they call that the spoils of WAR.
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Mil-Dot
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:20pmCheck out the prog Jrook. He is so stupid he just can’t do the math. News flash you prog-they don’t need “money” (ha right) from DC. DC is ripping them off. Would you like someone taking your money and then tossing you a couple of quarters and saying “here’s your share”? You can spot a freeloading govt egg sucking prog a mile away.
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Mil-Dot
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:23pmHey Searcher,
What? Do you think the rest of us are just going to sit there and watch as Texas fights the Feds? We will all be dragged into it. Sides will be taken. It will be the prog freeloaders against the patriots. See you on the battlefield pal.
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70S_KIDS_FIGHTING_SOCIALISM
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:37pm@Jcrook
Believe me Texas would also eventually taking surrounding states. Stop for a while then take the other red states and 3/4 of California. Many of you will perish in the war.
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forthepeople
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 6:20pmJROOK …is but just another kool-aid drinking , cable educated moron , not worth our time …Next !
Oh but he would be one of the first trying to get into the ‘truly Golden State ‘ TEXAS ‘ !
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M1A2_Tanker
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 6:49pm70S_KIDS_FIGHTING_SOCIALISM,
My Adopted home State of Arkansas has awaken to the lies that the Demon-rats have been telling them. For a long time now I have been bewildered to the fact that Arkansas votes in a ton of Demon-rats at the state level but vote Republican Presidents. That is all changed now thank GOD I wondered if I had made a mistake moving here from Colorado. I hope that with our help Texas will succeed and allow Arkansas to join. A lot of other States will join the fight. We have a ton of Natural Gas to throw in the pot. Not to mention Arkansans are Cowboys Fans!!!!! (Except me Broncos Baby!!!) :)
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Republic_of_Texas
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 7:14pmJROCK – Take your government handouts when you leave. The GDP of Texas will sky rocket once we tell the EPA and Energy department to stuff their Gulf of Mexico regulations. It becomes open drilling off our shores and we’ll start opening our gas reserves. We can create our own Army and will have the technology and resources to develop the latest Nukes and Missile Defense Systems. We won’t squander our defense spending to police the world. You can do that. With our energy supply and a true free enterprise environment, we will steal what manufacturing is left in the rest of the country.
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tamalezebra
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 7:44pmNot only would Texas be A-Ok, we also have guns of our own and 1 out 3 of our citizens have served in at least one branch of the armed forces or is related to someone who has. We also still believe in God the Almighty and have a church on just about every corner (hence our success). We already have a King and his name is Jesus Christ. We keep it simple with the rules as we acknowledge the top 10 with pride. The men act like men and the women act like women and we still say howdy, please and thank you. We are a family and what ever happens we will be Texans first and we will not go down with out a fight, if that what it comes down to. You only find yellow on the flowers in Texas.
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TexasMade
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:12amAnd since Texas sits on a big chunk of the country’s oil and natural gas reserves, not to mention the fact that we have at least 25% of the refinery capacity, maybe you’ll enjoy paying $12 a gallon for gas. lol
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k2weaver
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:34amlet’s just leave NOW!!!
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k2weaver
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:39amlive or die TEXAN.
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bintalshamsa
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:38pm@JRook, Shhhhh! Don’t tell them! Perhaps we can convince them to secede before they figure it all out. LOL
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tifosa
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 1:02pmExactly JROOK. Perry could pay back that $7ishB he took in stimulus funds to balance his 2010 budget, close the public schools, military bases, libraries, parks, end services and benefits to children, the poor, the elderly, which will starve funding for hospitals, medical staff…oh yeh, btw, look at his 2013 budget :)
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Dismayed Veteran
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 3:31pmTexas gives more money to the Fed than it gets back. So what. It is all fiat money. Any US money in Texas after secession would be even more worthless than it is now. Fiat money doesn’t even make good toilet paper. Does Texas have the gold reserves to back the money of the Republic of Texas? Will the world accept oil as the currency reserve instead of gold?
You know engineers use the phrase “pipe dream” when they are not sure what the full process will be. Pipe dream comes from the world of opium users. Enjoy your pipe dream.
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AUsername
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:19pmHow about we have the libertarian part of texas and the neo con part and see which one ends up better. one can have someone like ron paul as governor and the other can have someone like rick perry as governor and see which one ends up being a better place to live.
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Mil-Dot
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:27pmNo, how about we hunt down the progs when the SHTF and drive them into the ocean? Screw them. I don’t want them withing 1000 miles of me.
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LetUsReason
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:52pm@ AUSERNAME
That was a clever way to sneak Ron Paul into the conversation. His days are done. I suggest you find a new pet topic.
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Mutiny
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 6:16pm@let
Ron Paul may be leaving his political office but he is far from gone. We will all see how the McCain, Romney, Boehner, Cantor, Rubio, West, and Ryan thinking works out. They way its looking on the fiscal cliff, they are no different than the liberals.
Ron Paul was right, is right, and the only chance we have left to right this ship is following the Constitution and restoring freedom. End the red tape, kick backs, good ole boy system that has corrupted Washington.
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TEXASGRANNY73
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 6:48pmTexas with Rick Perry doing just fine.
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k2weaver
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:45amPerry is a progressive. PAUL feable. Cruzzzzzzzz. or a FREE AMERICAN – TEXAN
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TMOverbeck
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 9:33amHow about we write term limits into a new Texas Constitution. Rick Roosevelt’s gotten too entrenched. Plenty of other model conservatives to take his place.
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Beachmastermax
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:18pmTexas would go from FL and Virginia, straight up to Alaska and include western Canada. In a heart beat. The only places out would be the whole northe east, San Fran and the LA basin.
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stopprintn
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:38pmWich gives the ******** plenty of coast line to bring in, China , Russia, the UN, and maybe some Islamos to kick our a$$es.
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Beachmastermax
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:59pmLive free or die!
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Mil-Dot
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:39pmPlease Stop,
Don’t make me laugh dude. What? Do you really think that our military is going to sit this one out? They have been killing commies for tens of decades, probably centuries. They will not side with DC. Oh sure some will, and they will be wiped out or surrender when we corner them. Right along side of you. Govt loving egg suckers will pay for what they have done to this country. They will pay dearly.
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Twobyfour
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 10:54pmI like the idea of Texas bordering with Canada. I lived in TX for a while.and it grew on me. Although there is some separatist Western Canadian movement, it’s marginal, so W.Can. joining Texas is not likely. That does not mean the relations can’t be excellent as neighbors.
Oh yea, we’d take Alaska in a province status. No good reason to see Russia taking over it. They got paid for it and that’s that.
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Chuck Stein
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:15pmThe right under the Texas Constitution to split into 5 states has also been challenged by legal “authorities” (i.e. pundits). They point out that Texas (as with all 11 states that were part of the Confederacy) had to be “readmitted” to the Union — and that such readmission was under terms identical to all other states. Thus, the antebellum provisions of the Texas Constitution have been rendered null and void. Not sure if I buy the argument. In fact, the whole concept of “readmission” into the Union seems to state that the states had LEFT the Union to begin with. Thus, “readmission” (in and of itself) gives credence to a legal basis for secession in that those states were RECOGNIZED as having seceded.
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Cavallo
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:27pmHa! I like. Although, even if it was legal, it would likely come down to a shooting match and an American Civil War. It wouldn’t just be the States leaving either, with clear battle lines and organized armies. A real civil war is really nasty. Look at Syria. There are no such things as non combatants in a civil war. Not to mention there is a good possibility that certain criminal elements in larger cities might use the excuse of a civil war to declare a state of civil unrest and riot.
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WaterTheTree
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 6:29pmA readmission to the Union would only be valid if the original secession was valid. If the secession was valid, then the confdericy was valid, making the Civil War an act of agression by the North. If you argue that the secession was illegal and the Civil War justified, then there was no readmission, and the original agreement stands.
I had long been told that the rest of the Confederate states signed peace treaties, but Texas never did, they just elected a new legislature and went back acting like a normal state in the Union. If that’s true, then Texas was never readmitted and is technically still seceeded.
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Cibolo
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 11:54amI agree 100%, The nonsense that the Media, Politicians and other elitists push is complete and utter nonsense. Remember, the initial strength of the United States is just that, a united group of states. DC does not give a damn about us, the media LIE and SPIN to us everyday (including The Blaze)
The US is being destroyed by the elite at the top (politicians, billionaires, the media companies and pundits they own, etc. etc. etc.) These corrupt, treasonous slime are counting on the masses of Sheeple to sleep through this whole thing and bend over and keep taking it up the rear. (you know “LEAN FORWARD”)
The Federal Government and Elitists are gearing up for an end game (that is, an end to the Constitution so they can take full control) They have to move now because the “spell’ (for lack of a better term) that they have cast over the people (through bogus news reports, spin, propaganda) is wearing thin.
If you think for a second that Obama was legitimately “re-elected”, you are still drunk on cool-aid. The media pushes this nonsense and gets everyone to buy into it. It is easy, keep changing the narrative, From the election, to economy, to Benghazi scandal, to Gen. Betray-Us to Hurricane Sandy, back to the election to, etc, etc, etc…. yet no one ever does anything about the fact that the constitution is being used as “Toilet Paper” by the elite, and we are leaning forward, taking it up the rear, if we like it or not……
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OldVet
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:12pmYou forget to consider the possibility of a financial collapse of the US, leaving the country too weak to stop a state from withdrawing from the chaos. We are on the verge of that collapse.
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sophiepaul
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:50pmIndeed
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Cavallo
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:55pmYup, if you can’t pay your soldiers they’re unlikely to fight for you. You’d have to rely on conscription without pay.. or a slave army. . This is likely after a significant period of financially butchering the military just before and during the financial crisis.
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Mil-Dot
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:45pm@Third,
There are patriots and progs in every state, not just CA and TX. Them boys in Tennessee, Kentucky, Missouri, Arkansas, etc. etc. can shoot a hole through a flea’s ass at 200 meters. We ain’t bailing on Texas, I can guarantee you that my friend.
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mercenary4freedom
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 6:59pmMILDOT, please don’t forget us ol’ boys down here in rural north central FL. We’ll shoot a hole thru that hole in that fleas ass, and fast too, lol
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jhontomsen
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 8:05pmOkay, so Texas and all the other republican states leave the union… just think how much more solvent the US would become… with the exception of Texas every one of those other green states (you know, the ones paying more into the federal gov’t than they receive back) are democratic strongholds…according to the map, 17 states pay more in than they get back… 16 of those states voted democratic and have the great majority of the US population…. maybe texas can take all those red republican states that are on the gov’t and support all of them, just like all us democratic states have been doing……. see how that all works out for you…
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Sean In LI
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 8:53pm@jhontomsen
You do know the whole premise of that map is ridiculous, right? The reason those states “get more” is solely because of active and retired military. There are more bases in areas that have a lower cost of living, i.e., rural non-blue states. What’s more, there are far more military volunteers/guardsmen living in the red states than blue.
If you removed military spending (which is hardly some form of charity/ welfare/ subsidy), the map would flip right over, with the exception of Texas, which would lead the way in terms of money put in vs. received.
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jhontomsen
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 3:31amSean,
Not sure of the validity of your argument, but the number of military bases is split pretty evenly between the taker and non taker states.. 71 military bases in the green states and 76 in the red states…
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Quiata
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 6:31am@JHONTOMSEM et al. So what’s your beef? If all these red states are really such a financial drain, then why not toss the ballast overboard? No loss to those thriving blue financial epicenters, right?
According to your own argument, losing a few ‘flyover country’ states won’t harm you one iota (except that future cross-country road trip might be a TAD more complicated…).
In all seriousness, I would love to hear your argument (financial & otherwise) FOR keeping the states together (and it had better be something more substantive than “it’s for the sake of the kids”).
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Jimineez1
Posted on December 31, 2012 at 12:26amOldvet, that is exactly when it will be possible without a war. When there is a breakdown in society too big for the Fed govt to handle. The debt us unsustainable, so it is only a matter of time.
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Deliverance_from_the_left_now
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:06pmI’m from San Antonio and I vote emphatically YES to secession!!! So…who’s coming with me…we obviously have at least one vote yes at this point.
Who’s the other states that want to come with me…I’m looking at you Okies and talking to you Dixieland as well…well we’re a part of Dixie, it’s just some people tend to forget we’re one of the original 13 cotton states!
Oh, I wish I was in the land of cotton,
Old times there are not forgotten,
Look away, look away, look away Dixie Land.
In Dixie Land, where I was born in,
early on one frosty mornin’,
Look away, look away, look away Dixie Land.
I wish I was in Dixie, Hooray! Hooray!
In Dixie Land I’ll take my stand
to live and die in Dixie.
Away, away, away down south in Dixie.
Away, away, away down south in Dixie
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GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:20pmSure, but you have to get rid of your draconian gun laws first. :)
(psst, being serious here, heh)
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The Third Archon
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:22pmIt worked SO well last time…
And now CALIFORNIA exists, and California has about half again as much population and GDP (technically it would be GSP, gross state product, because its not a separate country, but that’s really just economic nomenclature specifics) as Texas, ON IT’S OWN. And California would almost certainly be on the Union side of the divide.
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GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:34pmThird
So what? Cali is in huge debt and cannot service its own programs. You can be the richest in debt man in the world, but that doesn’t mean you actually have money if it’s all taken serving and servicing your debt.
And militarily California has the intimidation force and factor of a small, slightly wounded, pug dog.
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The Third Archon
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:52pm@GHOST
California is not so bad off as conservatives gleefully like to imagine–this belief is based upon the mistaken assessment common to conservatives that having ANY debt means the sky is falling. Even personal debt can be ongoing without being financially detrimental, depending upon how much and how it is managed–sovereign debt is different from personal debt in significant ways that make ongoing debt even LESS of a problem (not the least of which is because the sovereign will continue to be around long after the person is dead, and can take advantage of inflationary effects upon debt in ways the short-lived person cannot).
Neither Texas NOR California have ANY military power in the status quo–they are constitutionally PROHIBITED from doing so. Now, Texas may CURRENTLY contribute more soldiers to the U.S. armed forces, but California contributes QUITE A FEW as well. More importantly, money is power and California could raise an army roughly half again the size of one from Texas at the same mobilization rate. It matters less what they don’t have now (because they don’t need and can’t have it), than what they WOULD have, or be able to quickly put together, in a conflict.
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VRW Conspirator
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 6:03pmumm.Archon…CA has a larger GDP than TX….CA is currently the 8th largest economy in the world…and CA has nearly 10 million more people…at one time CA produced 1/4 of the food in the USA…CA is still the tech center, even though TX is close behind…
TX just has more guns than CA…and remember…there is a good portion of CA that is strongly conservative…about 40%…in those agriculture centers and outlying counties away from all the big city cess pools….you might find a bunch of CA people trying to go with TX…
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Cibolo
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 6:08pmI am in Colorado, originally from California. If Texas Succeeds from the union, many other states that I have lived in will have your back! California will struggle to take your side, but many people will leave and go to Texas, all of the southern states (republican, OK, LA, MISS, FL, GA, SC, NC) will definitely follow Texas. FL will have no other choice as it is a swing state, and there are more people there that want out than want Obama to destroy the USA….. Eventually, the REAL lines will be drawn, as the truths become more than evident, (corruption, chem trails, fluoridation, agenda21, 911 (2001) being committed by the Bush administration as a false flag, the corruption in the SEC, the CIA drug smuggling, Etc. Etc. Etc.It will become “EVERYONE AGAINST THE ELITE AND US POLITICIANS!!!!!!!”
We got your back Texas, its truth time, its time to spill some blood for freedom!
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Cibolo
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 6:26pm@The Third Archon
I disagree!
I have friends and family in CA, they have been receiving IOU’s from the state for their tax returns. They can no longer afford to make movies in Southern CA as the cost is too high to produce them (they are making them in Canada now)
I moved out of CA in 2006, the house 1500sqft home I sold for $400k was foreclosed on 9 months after we moved, 12 months later that same house sold for 175k (less than 50% of its value when we sold it.
I bought a brand new home in CO for $299k 2400sqft (+1000sqft unfinished basement) in 2006, it is worth $312k today. (nothing has been done to it, other than basic ground cover and sprinkler system)
Many other states did not “balloon” before the housing crash, that is why we moved just before it collapsed. (the one time my father was right, unfortunately he “DID NOT” take his own advice and move.)
He bought a 1500sqft home in CA in 1973 for $37k in 2006 it was worth $850k, it is now 2012, worth $250k (if you could find a buyer in a saturated market as everyone with a brain is leaving CA and people on welfare are no longer able to buy homes like the used to)
The thing that ****** me off is I work hard, pay my bills, do not waste money on things UI cannot afford, but I have to pay for others mistakes, buying homes and vehicles they cannot afford (because the corrupt Government and bankers let them do it)
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Lt_Scrounge
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 7:34pmThird I hate to tell you this but Texas DOES have its own military, as does Ohio. Both have State guards that are NOT a part of the National Guard system. Texas even has a Texas State Air guard. Yes, Texas even has it’s own air force and I think the Texas Guard has a naval component as well. My bet is that if Texas Secedes, Arizona will be backing it. Arizona wasn’t a state during the Civil War. As much as Texans talk, Arizonans are FAR better armed. Then there’s the assorted militias in New Mexico. One county has over 200 armed and trained members in their militia alone.
As for California fighting to keep Texas in the Union, do you really think that those people who sign up to protect and defend the Constitution are likely to fight against other US citizens simply because they are wanting to escape the corruption that is in DC? Exactly how do you think the average soldier is going to react to being ordered to shoot at their own family members or the family members of their friends?
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Quiata
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 7:36am@ARCHON If Blue California is really the land of milk and honey….
QUESTION: why is their newly elected Democrat supermajority Assembly and Senate jumping on the chance to enact new legislation to TAX ‘wealthy’ citizens who attempt to move out of the state?
Why are they proposing implementing a new branch of the state police, called “STASI” (State Team Action to Stem Income) to monitor residents who are considering moving out of the state? Volunteer staffers would report suspicious behavior (as in, “they might be moving”) to authorities.
ANSWER: Because there is an impending exodus of wealth from that state. Like other restrictive socialist regimes that drive out the contributors, they believe (anything besides changing their own obnoxious behavior) that they have no other recourse but to penalize those who would flee.
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Centralsville
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:06pmThe country I was born in is already dead. My only hope would be for states to split off when this country fails, which it will. I hope the Old South along with some of the states in the middle of the country form their own conservative country with the old values of our constitution, as it was written, as a guide. The West Coast, New England and the Midwest union states have destroyed the old America.
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AZRACISTBIGOT
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:48pmLike most conservitives, the thought of secessation is an intriguing one, It’s sort of like giving up on a bad marriage. At what point do you stop trying, give up, and walk away? This is exactly how hopeless I felt after this farce of an election. Like most conservitive people, I was dumbfounded at the outcome. Was it rampent election fraud or are there that many fools in society with a hand out that want to be taken care of? The only plan I have left is to store food and amunition.
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Rob in Katy
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:14pmAt the point when it become cruel to our children! When Obama’s world starts stealing their heritage and inheritance that we have worked so hard for. When they ask that we give and give and give and then still take more – that is when! Are we there yet?
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The Third Archon
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:03pm“BUT CAN TEXAS LEGALLY SECEDE?”
The first American civil war settled that question–the answer, is NO. And legal or no, the government of the United States will NEVER just LET Texas leave peacefully.
“INDEPENDENCE FOR MOST STATES WOULD BE A FINANCIAL DISASTER”
Huh, that’s funny–most of the “givers” are traditionally BLUE states, while most of the traditionally RED states are in the “takers” category…VERY interesting.
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GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:11pmOh please, it settled nothing. Why is that the *exact wording* every Leftist gives to this question? Y’all don’t even try to make it sound original from post to post.
The Civil War was one moment in history, and only settled the question of whether the South was stronger than the North militarily. And that was only barely settled at that. It has no bearing on future attempts whatsoever. There is no such thing as a settled question, politically.
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Eastinfection
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:15pmThe “givers” states are the ones where all your hated “1%ers” live.
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checkingbothsides
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:15pmI noticed that too. While proving that Texas sends more money than it receives, the graphic also proves that pretty much every other Red state gets more money from the government than they send in. So much for the thievery of the federal government, huh?
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Chuck Stein
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:18pmI wonder how the accounting is done for determining the money flow from states to the feds (and back). Specifically, is the deduction of state income tax counted as a payment to the states that have income taxes?
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Beachmastermax
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:20pmThe Blue states will just need to build their own electrical grid and get their own coal. Don’t forget, many blue states are mostly Red counties. Those Blue states are likely to just be metropolis’s with no electricity.
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antrancher
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:27pmTRUTHNSTUFF, Scuse me! but you are a moron. Conservatives are not on the govment cheese. Liberals got one thing right though, Make the world a better place; Sterilize all the Liberals. that is indeed what they want, even for their little girls! Welfare would go down and maybe all the hospitals and charity organizations could escape bankruptcy. Give you a hint; those are liberals bankrupting this country. They can eat all the crickets they save, you know, the ones eating my backyard!
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The Third Archon
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:30pm“The “givers” states are the ones where all your hated “1%ers” live”
You mean where all the Leftists live? Maybe the conservatives should stop pretending to be against welfare and wealth redistribution then, since their states benefit the most from it at the federal level.
@GHOSTOFJEFFERSON
If you think armed secession from the United States will be anymore successful this time around, be my guest and give it a try.
@BEACH
Most coal comes from the Northeast, the opposite of where Texas is…so what’s your point?
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GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:35pm@Third
That has nothing to do with my answer to your erroneous statement. Nothing is ever settled. When we seceded from Britain, the largest superpower in the world, we won. Not everything is as pat and controlled in the world as you’d like I’m afraid.
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Twobyfour
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:50pmTake out the federal transfers to tribes and watch the color change. Or do you lefties have something against tribes? Raaaacists!
I suppose that with a secession, the tribes would have to renegotiate their treaties. BTW, my family branch in OK is about 1/7 Amerindian.
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Eastinfection
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:53pmThird… it’s where all the CEOs live because it’s where all the big co. headquarters are.
Regardless of whether or not these guys are of the red or blue ilk personally, they fund almost 1/2 the government (the part we’re not borrowing anyway). That’s why those states are “givers”. It’s not the general population of those states. It’s these individuals. If the map was colored by the person and not the state, the whole map would be “takers” with a few dots representing the “givers”.
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Beachmastermax
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:58pm@Third
The Blue states would have to fire half their work force. Goverment workers. That is what skews the givers from the takers. DC would have 80% unemployment.
The only state with coal in the NE is Penn….WV, KY,WY, UT will be in TX. And that is if the red counties in Ohio and Penn don’t decide to come with TX. The way BHO is treating them, they will leave Philly to NY.
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DoGooder
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:58pmYou really have trouble with complex thought. First your hit & miss commentary on the Bible, now a half baked analysis of history. You need to educate yourself before you display your display your primitive analytic skills.
However I have a question for you archon, who were the other two, and whom did they serve?
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Beachmastermax
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:01pm@ third.
The San Juoquin and sacremento valleys will be in TX.
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The Third Archon
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:01pm@GHOST
We were separated from Britain by an ocean, we had much more broad regional support among the British colonies for secession, and we had the support of some very important foreign powers. Also, military technology (technology writ large for that matter) was VASTLY different ~200 years ago.
The situation now in which a Texan secession would occur is NOTHING like the American Revolution. I didn’t claim that it was impossible for Texas to succeed in a bid for secession–I merely stated, and believe on the evidence of things as they stand, that it would be incredibly unlikely for them to prevail.
Point to the foreign powers that would and could effectively support them, what allies would they find among states that could do likewise, who do you think would end up with all (or the vast majority at least) of the U.S. military’s current weaponry, where would Texas cobble together a Navy and Air Force from that could resist the U.S. military? It would have to do ALL this while setting up an autonomous economy from one that is currently interlinked with that of the entire U.S. and interdependent upon it for trade–and it would have to do it FAST. It’s not technically impossible that it could happen, but its FAR from reasonable to say that it would have any substantive probability of success.
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Beachmastermax
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:05pmWell when the dollar collapses, we will get to see who is right. I do not see the rest of the world proping up another failed leftist state. Most of them have been there and done that.
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The Third Archon
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:10pm@EAST
(1) CEOs don’t currently reap the profits of the corporation they are employed by JUST by virtue of their position–that it controlled by the board of directors, and the people who, in the status quo, make the vast majority of money from the profits and/or growth in stock value of a corporation are the SHAREHOLDERS (i.e. capitalists). CEOs can ALSO, and often are, capitalists, but that is independent and not necessary to their being a CEO (and an independent source of wealth).
(2) Just because the system is so structured NOW to pay the lionshare of value of a corporation to a class of absentee titular owners of the corporation doesn’t mean that’s the only way it COULD be done, doesn’t mean that’s the way it SHOULD be done, and doesn’t mean that’s the most EFFICIENT or socially BENEFICIAL way for it to be done. They are only fantastically wealthy because the legal system of property rights is DESIGNED in such a way as to allow and encourage them to become and remain fantastically wealthy through the system of capital good ownership of the status quo (i.e. capitalism). Change that, and you change the distribution of wealth and power. There’s nothing superhuman about these people that entitles or necessitates they have the power they do.
(3) Corporations EXIST in the states that they do because of the advantages offered by the PEOPLE of those states as workers and providers of infrastructure. You have reversed the relation of dependence.
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Eastinfection
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:28pm3rd… My intention was not to provoke a debate over what economic theory would be most viable, it was to justify the crayolas used to color in the map.
But since you went there….
The people in these states are not the reason these companies are successful.
People relocate based on the opportunities these company’s offer.
Companies don’t chose locations primarily based on the awesome proletariats living there. They chose them based on access to airports, railroads, shipping routes, environmental resources, etc.
The standard of living for the big money-men comes into play as well.
The general population only factors in if you’re talking about hands-on labor- then the consideration is based in population density- nothing more.
It’s you that has the formula inverted.
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Cibolo
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 6:39pm@The Third Archon
You are wrong!
The only ones on top that anyone wants to tax (i.e hang for treason) are the elitists that are befitting from the monopolies they have created (oh and the corrupt politicians that they elect)
Trust me TEXAS needs to “Save America” through succession. the US military will “NOT” attack its own citizens in TEXAS (trust me, the majority of them understand what is happening and are pissed with the US government already)
The only other choice would be for the US to “HIRE” an army from another nation (China maybe) but if they did that there are 2 problems, no money to afford them and then the “jig would be up and the spell over the sheeple would be broken, people would soon realize what slime is living in Washington!
TEXAS please succeed, lead the way, we have your backs! If you did within a decade, DC would be converted into a prison for the politicians and we would all live in “The United “Republic States” of Texas……. (corrupt) Democracy would truly be minimized (if not eliminated completely) and a true “Constitutional Republic” as our forefathers wanted for us would be the result………
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starman70
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 11:32amFirst, I never understood why they have named the states who vote Democratic blue and those who vote Republican red. The Democrats, infested with liberals, super liberals, socialists and a few communists should bear the color of the old USSR or mainland China – - – RED. Republican states, populated with Constitutionalists, Tea Partiers, Conservatives and small government advocates should bear the color of independence – - – BLUE. I perceive a trick by the socialist press to trick the population and ingrain a false image in the minds of Americans. By the way, have you noticed that almost every state or city with a heavily Democrat vote and long term Democrat leadership is BROKE? A number of cities, especially in Calidumbofornia have already declared BANKRUPTCY? Others are contemplating the same action.
The USSR collapsed under its own weight of socialist programs. If it weren’t for the USA buying goods from China, they would have already collapsed also. North Korea is in such a poor state that it will soon collapse also. Socialism IS a recipe for FAILURE, to wit, Greece, Spain, Italy, France and soon the United Kingdom. In socialist countries, the lack of worker initiative is the problem. “The government pretends to pay us and we pretend to work.” THAT’S SOCIALISM!!!!
No, Texas may not be able to suceed from the union – - – that is until the total collapse of the government due to the massive debt accrued over the past 50 years. then it will be every state for itself
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antitheism
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:00pmIt’s really telling that most of the blue states give more to Washington than they receive and that most of the red states receive more from Washington than they give. Seems like the red staters are the real welfare queens.
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benrush
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:06pmIf I had a money printing press, I too could afford to give states more money than anyone has to pay in .
It’s just an accounting trick
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GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:09pmThat is an old saw horse.
Here’s how it works.
You don’t get a choice. Either in “receiving” or “giving”. Stop giving to us, I beg you, as long as you stop taking from us and regulating us. Let us grow what crops we want to grow, stop mandating we follow your rules while you say you’ll “subsidize” us to keep it from fully being a taking of property rights.
We can get along quite fine without blue state parasites. The same in reverse, however, cannot be said. Grow some food in Central Park if you’re tired of us “welfare queens”, for all I care. Your forced money is blood money, keep it, and leave us alone.
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truthnstuff
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:10pmSome of the states are red because they have a large number of parasites on gubemin cheeeeeze. If one seceded, and stopped the cheese, they would move out and the state would turn green.
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RLTW
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:11pmSo you quit West Point and think you can come on here and blur the line? You have the keen intuition of a rat don’t you.
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Lord_Frostwind
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:14pmOne, you can’t really blame a lot of the Western States for that problem, considering significant amounts of their land is owned by the Feds (In Utah it’s above 70% of the state owned by the Feds, Nevada isn’t far behind).
Two, while the blue states don’t take as much money from Washington, they’re also the ones that are tens of billions of dollars in debt and falling fast. We might be Washington’s “welfare” receivers, but at least we know how to use that money well enough to remain solvent.
Three, I have to wonder how much of that would count as “Welfare” and how much of that is due to construction of federally run installations, military and civilian, or what exactly they are counting as money coming from Washington. Feds lay claim to a lot of money and sometimes it proves rather outlandish. A more thorough inspection of funds going to and coming from states is required.
Four, you’re a self proclaimed Godless heathen who wastes his time on a conservative news website. You probably didn’t even read past the first line of my response, so who cares what you think? You aren’t making an argument, you’re just getting in a cheap political one liner to make yourself feel better.
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encinom
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:14pmSo most of the red states are Takers, as Paul Ryan would say, while the majority of Liberal blue States are Makers.
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Deliverance_from_the_left_now
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:14pmI know Texas pays more than it gets in return…I’m to convenced the math is right for the rest…the other ones are serious broke A$$ states and suck in every catagory.
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idarusskie
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:55pma lot of those read states have federal lands which the feds administer. This gets counted as funds going to the states. who knows if they gave up those lands to the states if they would not need the federal government.
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Twobyfour
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:08pmPlus transfers to tribes. In some states it’s a substantial chunk of the total.
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krod2516
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:29pmThe Blue states have sucked the wealth from the “taker” red states. The policies of the progressives have utterly destroyed them. If they were on there own and not under federal law, they would be able to prosper.
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benrush
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:58pmNow, boys and girls, as your instructor, I am here to fill you with propaganda:
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Ever see a guy waltz into a shopping store, grab two twelve packs of beer, and walk out before the stunned cashiers can believe what’s going down right in front of their eyes?
Yep, he’s shoplifting alright. Better go after him.
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jinxycat
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:21pmBelieve it or not that actually happened here by me.
The cashiers were talking about it – it had happened right before I went into the store.
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macpappy
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:57pmDon’t worry folks, Texas is not going to ruin the nation, hell, Texas is going to save the nation. The last refuge of the free.
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BODYBAG
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:15pmIf TX really does split off on its own and give the Feds the middle finger ——
I’ll be packing my bags and look forward to becoming a Texan.
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encinom
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:16pmYou mean, withthe exception of Austin, the home of the rabid bigots and religious brain dead.
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Glenn_S
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:45pm@Encinom -
Wrong, Skippy. I’m from Round Rock and can tell you for a fact that Austin is absolutely chock full of stinking, dirty, liberal, hippies. If/when we secede, those of them who haven’t already run screaming out of the state will be driven out along with all the illegals.
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The_Bronze
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 6:02pmNo surprise that Encinom would prove just how ignorant and prejudiced libs are.
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American_Made
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:55pmI would move there in a heart beat. I doubt you would find any American solder that would follow orders to take Texas back. So Obummer could declare what ever he wants but I truly doubt any Generals would command their troops to fire upon Texas.
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The Third Archon
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:11pmLOL–you mean the people conditioned to do the SOLE task of taking orders unquestioningly wouldn’t follow orders? HA HA HA HAA HA–I think you’re making an awfully big unjustified assumption there. Which isn’t to say there wouldn’t be mass defections–oh no, of course there would be, Texas is after all a substantial contributor to the U.S. armed forces’ soldiery. But there are MORE than enough non-Texans to make up the difference. Also TEXAS would never secede–the problem is that in order for a formal civil war (as opposed to internal civil strife) to break out, there not only has to be deep insurmountable social divisions, but the divisions ALSO have to be regionalized. The first condition MIGHT be fulfilled, but the second one is FAR from it–the divisions are reflected INTRA each state, mostly along city-rural lines. So while Texas might be, IN AGGREGATE, more conservative than most of the rest of the Union, INTERNALLY, it is divided among more Leftists cities (many of which are politically more like the coasts), and the more Rightist rural areas (which are more comparable to the deep South or the Midwest states in political climate). It just happens that in Texas, for now, the rural population is sufficiently large and conservative to make the Texas AVERAGE fairly conservative on a national scale, but that covers the lack of regional homogeneity which is necessary for full blown civil conflicts to erupt.
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GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:15pm@Third
You clearly have no military experience.
We were not taught to follow all orders unquestioningly. We were told we had every right and responsibility to not follow an unlawful order. We also took an oath to defend and protect the Constitution from all enemies, foreign AND DOMESTIC.
Had you ever served a day in your life, you’d know this nearly automatically. Your snarky sneering has thus been rebuffed. Back to the boiler room with you sir, no soup for you!
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The Third Archon
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:45pm@GHOST
You are hired killers sent to enforce the political policy of the U.S. government where it is not voluntarily acceded to, so cut your sanctimonious piety about what a “moral” and high-minded institution the military is. There have been a few rare instances were the use of military force was necessary and justified, but NEVER has it been DESIRABLE or GOOD for its own sake–only ever the lesser of two evils. Being in the military doesn’t magically make you some moral titan or more of an independent minded critical thinker (ha!). The only difference between the military and common hitmen is government sanction of the former–so stop pretending to be moral leaders. When killing becomes necessary again to avoid greater harms, then they’ll have a purpose, and in the meantime they should stop pontificating as if they were anything more than legally approved assassins retained because they are occasionally necessary to employ in the status quo.
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CWPrequired
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:19pmSouth Carolina has your back Texas, go for it.
@ thurd- your opinion of our military is exactly what makes the left the pos they are.
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themudflap
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:28pmSome knows what he is talking about and someone doesn’t. There was a reason someone wanted a national security force as armed and funded as they U.S. military. It is because he knows they will not follow him when he tries to exceed his authority. My brother tells me they keep getting classes on the fact what a legal order is and the fact that firing on U.S. citizens is not. Now, my nephew is stationed at Ft. Hood and I can tell you this comes up in conversations. If Texas did secede, expect alot to join with Texas and they would bring weapons with them. It would be a brutal, civil war with Russia and China waiting until it was over to come in and finish us all off.
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GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 8:38am@3rd
Your sneering rant has nothing to do with your original post nor my answer to your post. I’m glad you feel all happy now that you got your hatred for the military off your chest, but it was a non-sequitur at best.
You original assertion was wrong. Accept it. Own it. Deal with it.
I guess Leftism hasn’t blessed you with infallibility. Such a shame. :)
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DougHuffman
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:54pmI found image-81 above, “Independence for most states would be a financial disaster”, to be very interesting.
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booger71
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:08pmThat is why the States should form regional governments with states of like minds.
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Lloyd Drako
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:52pmBehold Texas exceptionalism! Except for Texas, all of this year’s red states receive more from the Federal government they hate so much than they pay. Only 5 blue states do.
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GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:13pmSo leave us alone and stop sending us money. How about that? Sounds like a fine bargain to me. Take away your mandates, edicts, rules and regulations, stop forcing us to accept money to keep your rules from amounting to a legal “takings of property”, and leave us alone. Let us decide our own crops, our own markets, and our own prices instead of dictating them from above, comrade.
This song and dance never gets old.
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GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:23pmAlso, if you could, stop claiming 40 to 70% of the land out West as somehow “yours”. A lot of Federal spending happens here because your government gives nobody a say in the matter, it confiscates tracts nearly the size of Massachusetts and funds it without our consent.
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BenKatz
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:32pm“So leave us alone and stop sending us money. How about that?”
Man you really are beyond reproach huh? The poor, put-upon red state you reside in doesn’t actually want or need want the federal dollars it receives. It’s imposed upon you. Brilliant!!!
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Lord_Frostwind
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 10:12pmActually Benkatz, Jefferson is more right about that. More often than not the money comes with a lot of string attached to it, but if you refuse to accept it they cut you out of other programs as well. This is lovingly referred to as economic blackmail, you do what they say or they cut off your cash across the board. So, when they impose a program that they want, the Feds usually only pay a fraction of it, then state picks up the rest of the bill. You can see this with the state run insurance exchanges and multiple law enforcement programs (NIMS is probably the biggest offender). At least that has been how it has gone for us in Utah.
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WaterTheTree
Posted on December 8, 2012 at 7:44pmThis whole “pay more than they receive” and vice versa arguemnt is bogus. The Federal government is a schoolyard bully who takes everyone’s lunch money and then doles it out with preconditions. “Yes, you can have most of your lunch money back, if you help me beat up on Bobby, who refused to give me his lunch money.” “You can have more than what I took… just swear that I’m the smartest person in school.”
And sadly, we are all thankful for getting a little bit back every time our elected represntitives bring back a little bit of pork for their districts.
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ArmedAndReallyPissed
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:52pmImpeach and imprison the CLOTUS. Division reversed. Problem(s) solved.
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GoodStuff
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:52pmI’d rather just kick the commies out of the US. Millions of rural voters sat on their butts and didn’t vote in this election. They gave us 4 more years of the commies.
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benrush
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:51pmAny people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right – a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people, that can, may revolutionize and make their own so much of the territory as they inhabit
Abraham Lincoln
The Supreme Court is a bunch of BS. They have no right to tell states what they can and cannot do – I refer you to the Declaration of Independence.
Are you a bunch of idiots, there at the blaze?
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naughtycal
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:03pmAsking the supreme court if your state can secede is a conflict of interest. Asking a government to give back powers once given is like pulling teeth. Fact is if Texans voted out of the union there’s nothing in the Constitution that denys them the right to secede…….10th amendment is clear all powers not granted to or prohibit Congress revert back to the state and the people.
As for me I say F Washington they’re tax the makers and representing the takers….It’s time the producers opted out of Washington and America if need be….let this country become the banana Republic the takers are pushing for……
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taxpro4u03
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:14pmBelieve that ‘changed’ when our ancestors (war weary and plain ignorant) didn’t as a PEOPLE prevent Andrew Johnson and U.S. Grant from their FAILURE to RESTORE Lincoln’s suspended Constitution to its rightful place, instead ram-rodding thru the SECOND Organic Acts of 1871/74 — the expansion of the 1803 Original Incorporation of the 10-sq mi area ‘became’ “nationalized.” — after the Erie RR v Thompkins SCOTUS in 1938, they got busy with the Uniform Commercial Code – and ALL the ‘subsidiary’ members of the union at that time signed on to become The State Of_______ — so no — the small ‘s’ states co-exist. :-) IF they were to reseat their vacated ORIGINAL jurisdiction governmental (republic) seats — they could — lawfully. — Will they? Glenn doesn’t ‘talk’ about it –
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Truthbeliever2
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:15pmI am a Libertarian/Conservative, and supported Ron Paul. In answer to your question; YES the people who support Glenn Beck and the Blaze are IDIOTS. They are a flock of sheep that need to be led this way and that. They wait for the media to tell them how they feel and who to vote for. They are as useless as **** on a boar hog, and every bit as ignorant as any Democrat.
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GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:49pmAny state *can* secede. The question is, how long will they remain a viable force once they do. Secession isn’t a legal question, it’s a question of force or diplomacy, and nothing else.
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benrush
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:54pmCorrect
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Lloyd Drako
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:55pmAny state “can” secede that is willing and able to defy Federal authority by force of arms. Whether or not a state “may” secede is another matter. There is clearly some level of Federal tyranny that would justify any state’s attempt to secede. I cannot think of a time in the nation’s history when that level was even approached.
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WarMunger_Al
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:02pmDrako-
Today’s government is far more oppressive than the government of King George, but as long as you enjoy your kool aid, who needs freedom?
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Lord_Frostwind
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:04pmMy thoughts exactly. I seriously doubt that any state will ever be allowed to leave this union peacefully, secession will only be able to occur if the Federal Government is defeated. At this juncture, I don’t believe any one or group of states has the power to challenge them with any hope of victory.
I think the idea of secession needs to be abandoned. Whether it is changing the Federal Government by election, or by rebuilding after a systemic collapse, there will come a time when we can fix this system. But that will never happen if this nation balkanizes, and we’ll leave ourselves wide open for all the other enemies waiting at the walls.
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Twobyfour
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 11:07pmBalcanization means a myriad little states (see Yugoslavia) as a result of secessions. Unlikely to happen. States will be joining TX in droves. OK and LA first and then it would snowball. What is “red” states would be pretty much a part of the new entity an as such a pretty powerful one. Perhaps more so, unhindered by the cesspool of DC neo-commies.
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cappicard
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:46pmHow many times am I going to repeat this?
As per Texas vs. White in 1869, NO State can unilaterally secede from the Union. They waive any such right upon admittance to the Union.
Case closed!
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benrush
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:53pmSorry, bucko.
9 Guys in Black Robes can do nothing when a state decides to terminate its relationship.
Did the colonies have a right to secede?
Duh. Of course they did. And the Declaration of Independence unequivocally avers that this is a natural right, belonging to everyone who wants to erect a new form of government to please themselves. You are powerless to have any say in the matter whatsoever.
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benrush
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:56pmand, you are free to repeat it until you are blue in the brain.
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wciappetta
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:56pmSorry but if you think Texas citizens are going to regard a court ruling from a nation they choose to secede from I think you’re reaching. Personally I believe there would be a war over it and other nations would suddenly aid Texas in the move. They could manage it. So the smart move for the US might be to let them go and avoid the bloodshed.
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benrush
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:03pmInalienable rights are not “waivable”.
Get a good course in logic sometime, if you happen to think about it.
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DougHuffman
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:05pmI imagine King George made similar arguments and sealed them “Case closed!” /S/ HRH George III
None the less, the DoIUS introduces, “When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”
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Lordchamp
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:10pmAll rights not expressly GIVEN to the federal government are reserved by the people and the states. The black robes are null and void if the states and the people say they are.
Nullification is the legal means by which the states can shutdown the federal government and the courts and secession is the physical, interpreted as armed, means of shutting down the federal government and the courts.
NOTHING is a closed case until WE THE PEOPLE say it is. In the end, it all falls on us which is as it should be either good or bad.
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Balthazor
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:10pmWhile I’m no judicial expert, nor familiar in any way with the case you’ve cited, I’d point out that the supreme court also found buried within the Constitution a right to federally-funded abortion too.
Like Benrush pointed out, any decision by the court which indicates that states have no right to secede very clearly runs contrary to the whole point of the Declaration of Independence and Constitution.
Besides, asking the federal courts if a state can secede seems a bit like asking the IRS if you can stop paying taxes, or asking a labor union if you can stop paying dues. Of COURSE they’re going to say no.
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Eastinfection
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:25pm“As per Texas vs. White in 1869, NO State can unilaterally secede from the Union.”
lol… As per the binding contract i had with my ex-wife we were supposed to be part of a union, too.
“till death do you part”.
it was even sanctioned by the State.
like 50% of such unions, 1 person “seceded”, and there was nothing the other “members” could do about it.
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DougHuffman
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:04pmSure there was, like repugnican Lincoln POTUS-16 did, kill the union to save the Union.
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Adobewalls
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 10:51pmEngland was against independence also. If Texas decides to go I expect the fed will object, then I expect that Texas and the whole South will rise again, I guess then we will see if blood really does makes grass grow greener.
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Dismayed Veteran
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 4:24pmWhen we left the British Commonwealth, we were in rebellion against the legal and soveriegn government. We were traitors. We won are freedom by force of arms. If a state wants to engage in rebellion and win by force of arms, go for it. Worked well the first time. Didn’t work well the second.
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Terrence Lorelei
Posted on December 11, 2012 at 9:21amSorry to burst your bubble, Cappy, but Texas v. White is often erroneously cited by the anti-liberty crowd as “proof” that no state can secede. “White” was actually about a debt that White owed to Texas for the purchase of state-issued bonds. White refused to pay, on the grounds that Texas was not really a legal entity under the Confederacy, and later, under Reconstruction as an “occupied territory”. The court ruled that Texas was always Texas, and White had to pay. A year after the case was decided, the Congressional Radical Republicans asked Chief Justice Chase to add an addendum to the court’s opinion bringing secession into the mix. Chase, a fanatical Unionist, obediently complied.
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1776freedomofspeech
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:46pmYes, but it would not be wise.
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naughtycal
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:45pmI would fight for texas in a red hot minute if it decided enough is enough.
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MBA
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:49pmhow are you going to deal with the lazy, liberals in Houston?
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naughtycal
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:05pmLearn from America’s mistake give the liberals a choice pistols at dawn or get the he77 out of Texas.
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BigGrabowsky
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:10pm@MBA
Anyone would be allowed to be here as long as they would abide by the new constitution, and as part of that constitution I would imagine a very reduced, if non-existent welfare role. Otherwise they can pack their stuff and leave. I am sure that any number of the “Blue” States would be happy to have more moochers.
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GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:18pm@Big
I’d move there, but you guys are far too anti-gun for me, even compared to where I live now.
And I’m actually being serious. :)
Wyoming, here I come!
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My Two Cents
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:26pmMBA:
how are you going to deal with the lazy, liberals in Houston
We’ll advertise a bounty on Telemundo. Full citizenship in exchange for 10 liberal scalps.
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mercenary4freedom
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 6:01pmhow are you going to deal with the lazy, liberals in Houston?
Put them on a train headed NE to NY, Let Blloomburger deal with them. Those that do not comply, well, send them off for a long walk on a short pier into the gulf.
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Sandy
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:43pmI believe if they secede, their population would grow substantially. I know I would move there!!!!
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benrush
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:55pmme too. to shut down the NAFTA superhighway
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grayling646
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:58pmCan’t happen without a war, Sandy and as the video suggested, that would be suicide.
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Mil-Dot
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 5:14pmWhy Gray? Cause you’re in favor of nuking them? You must be one of those that side with the tyrants. Go ahead, side with them. You will be found out. You will not escape.
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Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:42pmUnderstand something up front – if there is the least hint of secession from the union by any state, Obama can use it to crush the nation completely by declaring a civil war is upon us all and then follow up with full martial law, suspension of the courts and the Constitution.
This is one of the things I believe he is hoping will occur and give him an excuse to seize all the power he can to become a dictator in fact and deed.
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SacredHonor1776
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:48pmLincoln did the same thing in Maryland.
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LibertarianNinja
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:04pmThere is only “civil war” if there is a fight for the central government. The term was incorrect then, and is incorrect now. However, I do agree that the Obama would make a push for martial law on those grounds. That being said, I say, “Let’s get nuts!!!!”
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CulperGang
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:07pmObama can’t do anything without uniforms…….he doesn’t have enough of them to actually implement martial law and sieze power. He is hated by the ordinary grunts and they are not going to support the fall of the US in favor of “dictatorship and enslavement” for their children. Even local law enfocement are waking up and getting with the program. And the program is: FREE, CONSTITUTIONAL US.
The days of these uneducated bottomfeeders making policies for the US is coming to an end.
if TX goes……………it’s population will quaruple in size as 60% of American will move, to the call of arms against tyranny……..we are at the “whose going to blink first stage.”
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revelation2012
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 4:36pmwe really DO NOT KNOW what all O has been doing
example: BENGHAZI – REMEMBER ALL THE AMMO ,,,
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KNaggieland
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:18pmPerhaps if martial law were implemented a majority of Americans might find the courage that the Egyptians have and take to the streets.
I wonder if the Marine or Air Force Pilots that would be required for the President to escape would chose to follow orders or just “Stand Down”.
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Terrence Lorelei
Posted on December 11, 2012 at 9:05amTrue, B. Hussein Obama is certainly capable of taking such an action. However, freedom always has a price, and if true liberty is to survive anywhere in this country, let it be in Texas.
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Cavallo
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 3:42pmIf it does, I am moving there (assuming the new Texas National Constitution placed the restrictions on the government that the US constitution USED to)
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Git-R-Done
Posted on December 6, 2012 at 6:40pmSame here.
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Carbine
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 8:24amWithout a doubt, I would move to Texas. I would also fight for it’s right to leave a corrupt union!
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