Watch Live: Second House Hearing on IRS Scandal

The 7 Key Moments From Wednesday’s IRS Hearing

Government

Invasion of Privacy? Feds Seek to Make ‘Black Boxes’ Mandatory in All Cars

Dec. 7, 2012 5:00pm Liz Klimas

Federal Government Proposes Regulations for Mandatory Black Boxes in Cars

The NHTSA believes requiring black boxes in cars could provide valuable safety information while privacy advocates worry about how the data being collected could be used in the future. (Photo: Shutterstock.com.)

WASHINGTON (TheBlaze/AP) — Although you might not know it, most auto makers already include technology commonly known as a “black box” in most consumer vehicles. Now, the tell-all data recorder is closer to being required by the government in all cars by mid-2014.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration on Friday proposed long-delayed regulations requiring auto manufacturers to include event data recorders in all new cars and light trucks beginning Sept. 1, 2014.

Automakers have already been quietly tucking the devices, which automatically record the actions of drivers and the responses of their vehicles in a continuous information loop, into most new cars for years. IEEE Spectrum reported earlier this year that 85 percent of cars already come with black boxes.

When a car is involved in a crash or when its airbags deploy, inputs from the vehicle’s sensors during the 5 to 10 seconds before impact are automatically preserved. That’s usually enough to record things like how fast the car was traveling and whether the driver applied the brake, was steering erratically or had a seat belt on.

The idea is to gather information that can help investigators determine the causes of accidents and lead to safer vehicles. But privacy advocates say government regulators and automakers are spreading an intrusive technology without first putting in place policies to prevent misuse of the information collected.

Data collected by the recorders is increasingly showing up in lawsuits, criminal cases and high-profile accidents. Massachusetts Lt. Gov. Timothy Murray initially said that he wasn’t speeding and that he was wearing his seat belt when he crashed a government-owned car last year. But the Ford Crown Victoria’s data recorder told a different story: It showed the car was traveling more than 100 mph and Murray wasn’t belted in.

In 2007, then-New Jersey Gov. Jon Corzine was seriously injured in the crash of an SUV driven by a state trooper. Corzine was a passenger. The SUV’s recorder showed the vehicle was traveling 91 mph on a parkway where the speed limit was 65 mph, and Corzine didn’t have his seat belt on.

There’s no opt-out. It’s extremely difficult for car owners to disable the recorders. Although some vehicle models have had recorders since the early 1990s, a federal requirement that automakers disclose their existence in owner’s manuals didn’t go into effect until three months ago. Automakers that voluntarily put recorders in vehicles are also now required to gather a minimum of 15 types of data.

Besides the upcoming proposal to put recorders in all new vehicles, the traffic safety administration is also considering expanding the data requirement to include as many as 30 additional types of data such as whether the vehicle’s electronic stability control was engaged, the driver’s seat position or whether the front-seat passenger was belted in. Some manufacturers already are collecting the information. Engineers have identified more than 80 data points that might be useful.

Privacy complaints have gone unheeded so far. The traffic safety administration says it doesn’t have the authority to impose limits on how the information can be used and other privacy protections. About a dozen states have some law regarding data recorders, but the rest do not.

“Right now we’re in an environment where there are no rules, there are no limits, there are no consequences and there is no transparency,” said Lillie Coney, associate director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center, a privacy advocacy group. “Most people who are operating a motor vehicle have no idea this technology is integrated into their vehicle.”

Part of the concern is that the increasing computerization of cars and the growing communications to and from vehicles like GPS navigation and General Motors’ OnStar system could lead to unintended uses of recorder data.

“Basically your car is a computer now, so it can record all kinds of information,” said Gloria Bergquist, vice president of the Alliance of Automotive Manufacturers. “It’s a lot of the same issues you have about your computer or your smartphone and whether Google or someone else has access to the data.”

The alliance opposes the government requiring recorders in all vehicles.

Data recorders “help our engineers understand how cars perform in the real world, and we already have put them on over 90 percent of (new) vehicles without any mandate being necessary,” Bergquist said.

Safety advocates, however, say requiring data recorders in all cars is the best way to gather a large enough body of reliable information to enable vehicle designers to make safer automobiles.

“The barn door is already open. It’s a question of whether we use the information that’s already out there,” said Henry Jasny, vice president of Advocates for Highway and Automotive Safety.

Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said that requiring recorders in all new cars “will give us the critical insight and information we need to save more lives.”

“By understanding how drivers respond in a crash and whether key safety systems operate properly, [government safety officials] and automakers can make our vehicles and our roadways even safer,” LaHood said in a statement.

NHTSA Administrator David Strickland echoed this sentiment in the administration’s statement.

“EDRs provide critical safety information that might not otherwise be available to NHTSA to evaluate what happened during a crash — and what future steps could be taken to save lives and prevent injuries,” Strickland said. “A broader EDR requirement would ensure the agency has the safety-related information it needs to determine what factors may contribute to crashes across all vehicle manufacturers.”

The National Transportation Safety Board has been pushing for recorders in all passenger vehicles since the board’s investigation of a 2003 accident in which an elderly driver plowed through an open-air market in Santa Monica, Calif. Ten people were killed and 63 were injured. The driver refused to be interviewed and his 1992 Buick LeSabre didn’t have a recorder. After ruling out other possibilities, investigators ultimately guessed that he had either mistakenly stepped on the gas pedal or had stepped on the gas and the brake pedals at the same time.

When reports of sudden acceleration problems in Toyota vehicles cascaded in 2009 and 2010, recorder data from some of the vehicles contributed to the traffic safety administration’s conclusion that the problem was probably sticky gas pedals and floor mats that could jam them, not defects in electronic throttle control systems.

Flight data recorder (Image: Wikimedia)

“Black box,” a term for a device whose workings are obscure, is most widely used to refer to flight data recorders, which continually gather information about an aircraft’s operation during flight. Aircraft recorders, by law, are actually bright orange.

Some automakers began installing the recorders at a time when there were complaints that air bags might be causing deaths and injuries, partly to protect themselves against liability and partly to improve air bag technology. Most recorders are black boxes about the size of a deck of cards with circuit boards inside. After an accident, information is downloaded to a laptop computer using a tool unique to the vehicle’s manufacturer. As electronics in cars have increased, the kinds of data that can be recorded have grown as well. Some more recent recorders are part of the vehicle’s computers rather than a separate device.

Rep. Michael Capuano, D-Mass., has repeatedly introduced legislation to require that automakers design recorders so that they can be disabled by motorists but has been unsuccessful in his efforts.

A transportation bill passed by the Senate earlier this year would have required that all new cars and light trucks have recorders and designated a vehicle’s owner as the owner of the data. The provision was removed during House-Senate negotiations on the measure at the behest of House Republican lawmakers who said they were concerned about privacy.

“Many of us would see it as a slippery slope toward big government and Big Brother knowing what we’re doing and where we are,” Rep. Bill Shuster, R-Pa., who is slated to take over the chairmanship of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee in January, said at the time. “Privacy is a big concern for many across America.”

Let us know what you think about the proposed requirement for black boxes by taken our poll:

Benghazi, IRS, AP...What's next? Only TheBlaze TV offers the truth from Glenn Beck, Andrew Wilkow, and Real News from TheBlaze. Get instant access and a free trial here.

Back to The Blaze »

Comments (96)

redfish52
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 6:25pm
I have just decided what my new career choice will be…disconnecting these black boxes…Ka…ching.

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- The_Jerk
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 7:31pm
  I want Beyoncé in my car.
  
  Report this comment
- The Giver
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 10:43pm
  Maybe you could come up with a way to block drones from seeing through your walls and roof? Big market for people who will counter all this invasion of privacy. Moving to another country might also work at this point.
  
  Report this comment
- grayling646
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 10:49pm
  …oooooohhhhh bouy.
  
  Report this comment
- Maji
  Posted on December 8, 2012 at 12:50am
  Wish we could install these things on voting machines
  in the blue states!
  
  Report this comment
- tothepoint
  Posted on December 8, 2012 at 9:55am
  To those responding to this posting, stop being disgusting about black females.
  
  Report this comment
- BODYBAG
  Posted on December 8, 2012 at 10:35am
  @TOTHEPOINT
  Posted on December 8, 2012 at 9:55am
  To those responding to this posting, stop being disgusting about black females.
  ———————————————–
  Ho jokes funny. Its just peeps tryin ta blend n da new ‘merica. Stupid, mediocre,
  godless, with yo hand out wantin sonethin free
  Big daddy gubment
  
  Report this comment
- mwhaley
  Posted on December 8, 2012 at 11:30am
  Progressive Insurance Co. is using this data. The plug that you get from Progressive plugs in to the diagnosis port. Progressive is able to get data on your speed on all public roads. They are able to see if you made a full stop at all posted stop signs. Did you use a turn signal when switching lanes. All this can be obtained using your vehicles computers and their gps.
- Neno
  Posted on December 8, 2012 at 5:55pm
  Can anyone say Mile Tax? If I recall, Obama wanted tax you on how many miles you drive. This is just the first step in that direction
  
  Report this comment
- lowerclassrepublican
  Posted on December 8, 2012 at 11:48pm
  What will happen! If you use a device or disable the recording you will be automatically guilty of any crime and have 100% charges brought against you with the full force of the government and insurance fighting against you. Sorry people this is the new America, the obama America. If you don’t believe me I have a friend who is facing criminal charges from a wreck that killed a girl. She was speeding to cut in front of him where the road go’s from two lines into one (he was in the lane that kept going, but in a slow truck). All he did was tap her, but because of her speed she was sent into oncoming traffic and killed. The police already use this as a tactic trying to get you to confess to doing wrong. They goto your car with a computer and hook it up. I am sure they are getting the info, but what I also know is that they can not decipher the information there and are told not to because they could corrupt it. That don’t stop them from coming to you and saying,”We see you were speeding and driving aggressively by the computer!” All lye’s! His attorney has already gotten video footage showing he did neither. They have dropped all charges except the one that can put the cost (from the insurance agency) on him.
  
  Report this comment
- banjarmon
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 2:27am
  I think I’ll invest in bicycles and mopeds.
  
  Report this comment
TommyGunn
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 6:21pm
negative ghost rider the pattern is full!

Report this comment
Log in to Reply Reply
BlackCrow
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 6:21pm
Looks like I’ll be driving my little (made in San Antonio TEXAS!) Toyota pickup for the rest of my life. I will NOT own a car or truck that can be tracked by the government (On-Star) Shut off by remote control (On-Star thank you GOVERNMENT MOTORS) or be able to testify against me in court (Smart Airbag system or data recorders)

SCREW THEM!!!!

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- The Giver
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 10:56pm
  You got E-ZPass?
  
  Report this comment
- glckgrl
  Posted on December 9, 2012 at 8:55am
  I agree and I can just see the electronic tickets and the income it generates flying into the coffers of this regime. God help anyone who breaks the law… buckle up Komrades.
  
  Report this comment
- JunkFixer
  Posted on December 9, 2012 at 9:02pm
  If your little Texas-assembled Toyota truck is model year 2004 or newer it ALREADY has a CDR compliant EDR (Event Data Recorder) which is incorporated in the ACM. For a list of vehicles equipped with EDRs visit the following:
  
  http://www.crashforensics.com/files/CDRVehicleList.pdf
  
  Report this comment
- Chuck Stein
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 3:08am
  @ Blackcrow
  You got it. Also, the market for used (pre-2014) cars will be very strong indeed for a very long time.
  
  Report this comment
txgrrl
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:40pm
This is just spooky. Like being fingerprinted in order to get your driver’s license.

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- DougHuffman
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:53pm
  Surely you’re not going to try to argue a right to drive. It is a privilege, licensed and regulated. Unlike the RKABA
  
  Good people ought to be armed as they will, with wits and Guns and the Truth. God Bless Bitter Clingers, damn progressives.
  
  Report this comment
- BODYBAG
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 6:12pm
  F the Feds.
  I would never buy a new POS vehicle anyway.
  I’ll keep driving vintage vehicles. Try to track me you bastards.
  
  Report this comment
- Small World
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 9:20pm
  Yea ! and you don’t need an ID to vote go figure. Is this part of agenda 21????
  
  Report this comment
- DadRocked
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 10:04pm
  This will increase car prices by a couple of thousands…
  
  Report this comment
- tj1961
  Posted on December 8, 2012 at 1:00am
  I had to be fingerprinted and background checked for a haz-mat endorsement on my commercial driver’s license.That’s par for the course these days.
  
  Report this comment
intercepter
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:34pm
I knew there was a reason I kept my old ford around ,the computer sits at the steering wheel ,I will be 50 this year ,yea old ,not now but when I was younger ,anyway when I took my driving test ,the test was given by a state cop and usually one that was mad at the world the day of your test ,now they have someone who might not even drive giving tests and they are a joke ,so the end product is some kid laying way back on the seat one hand hanging on the steering wheel and one on the phone,,cars are too easy to drive ,they should make a car called the first five ,cause thats how long you drive it before moving to real cars ,the first fives would be cheap ,,no power seats,windows,brakes or steering ,and maybe an am/fm radio and just make hiway speed barely, and if they don’t pop the hood and check the fluids and air in the tires ,the car won’t start ,its called being first party responsible,no black box ,,,I was just re-reading this and I described the beetle,,, right

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- Fubared
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:56pm
  Cash for klunkers killed that possibility. Ax a used car salesman, not a Dem, but an actual used car salesman.
  
  Report this comment
Al J Zira
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:33pm
So if it’s a true safety issue why don’t they make the data inadmissible in court procedures or insurance claims? This is the same argument over intersection cameras. We’re told it’s all for safety reasons but it’s just another way to make money and control our behavior.

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- The Giver
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 10:53pm
  You nailed it!
  
  Report this comment
- OldOllie
  Posted on December 8, 2012 at 1:53pm
  “Yes, I know that you were broadsided by an uninsured motorist who ran a red light. However, your data recorder indicates that a block before you reached the intersection, you were going 2 mph over the posted speed limit; therefore, your claim is denied.”
  
  Report this comment
soisay
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:31pm
Due to the PATRIOT act, the government probably won’t ever need a warrant for the data, and will be able to do whatever they want without even telling us. Why? Because of terrorism. The two parties fell all over themselves to burn our fourth amendment rights, because everybody was afraid of Muslums, and we got “Code Red / Code Orange” and “don’t trust John Kerry” to keep us afraid. Now we have don’t trust Obama, he’s a muslim who wants to take our guns to keep us afraid. The PATRIOT act and other constitutional shredding, once in place, will stay there. Obama couldn’t even close Guantanamo because congress tied up the entire Military funding bill (sign it or veto it) with “no money to close Guantanamo” language. How can we expect to get our constitution restored when the majority of citizens can be easily manipulated with fear.

Report this comment
Log in to Reply Reply
VRW Conspirator
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:25pm
Just one more reason why I LOVE classic cars…smog control devices…optional…seat belts…maybe…computers…NOPE..what is that….something that I can do all the work on myself….yeap….
2 tons of real American steel between me and the guy in the aluminum and plastic hybrid vehicle as he plays with his radio and texts and talks on the cell phone while listening to the GPS tell him to turn 50 ft before the corner…
next thing he knows…he becomes a speed bump…i pound out a fender or replace a bumper and back to perfection…his car goes to a recycling center and then I get to sue him and take him for all he is worth….

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- The Giver
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 11:02pm
  Watched an auction tonight that had lots of classic cars. They are beautiful, black box free, and pricey if already restored. But that is the way to go.
  
  Report this comment
RANGER1965
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:23pm
They will declare that they own the Highways and Interstates, and they have the right to make your car meet their standards to drive on it. They will cite how Black Boxes will make driving safer and more secure. They will hit the Soccer Mom crowd and bamboozle them with ads featuring children.

Anyone that opposes it will be:
(1) A right-wing nut case
(2) A child hater
(3) Foolish

etc…

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- Al J Zira
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:30pm
  Right on the money. Same plan for everything that comes along.
  
  Report this comment
Dan
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:23pm
Not long after they put them on the cars, they’ll use the data to fine you for speeding. BIG Government needs BIG money in order to run.

Report this comment
Log in to Reply Reply
AbrahamsSheepdog
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:23pm
He is obsessed with the auto industry. And who can afford new cars after he’s done? Yup rich people.

Report this comment
Log in to Reply Reply
just my opinion maybe not yours
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:22pm
You want to save more lives? Make it mandatory to have Ignition Breathalyzers in all Cars!! That would save thousands of lives everyday!!! You would have to blow before you could start your car and if you had alcohol in your system the car won’t start until you blew under the limit!!

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- DougHuffman
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:49pm
  @Just (not very), “mandatory” tyranny.
  
  Good people ought to be armed as they will, with wits and Guns and the Truth. God Bless Bitter Clingers, damn progressives.
  
  Report this comment
- MrEDS
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:59pm
  that how it starts this would be ok but not that .How about just get out of my life.
  
  Report this comment
Nerzhul
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:22pm
4yrs from now we will be nothing, if not a Obama lead United Socialists States of America. Soon even those who would try everything peaceful will see that we must overthrow the media and the corrupt government, i just hope we can still do it peacefully though. Starting with getting rid of the rhino Boehner.

Report this comment
Log in to Reply Reply
scrudge
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:20pm
Ah Yes…. black box…. sounds like the goverment went RACIST….

Report this comment
Log in to Reply Reply
SpankDaMonkey
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:20pm
.
I’m not doing a Black Box no way not in my car, not in my house, nowhere no sir. You the government nobody could make me go down on a Black Box……

What? Oh! Sorry ya’ll my bad wrong kind of box. Carry on………

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- DougHuffman
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:23pm
  Black Box wine is fine wine!
  
  Report this comment
intercepter
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:15pm
what crap ,this country our nanny state is really getting too carried away ,the funniest part is ,it won’t show the person texting or bitching at someone on the cell phone ,or my favorite ,,eating their salad while adjusting their make-up a few seconds before the crash

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- right-wing-waco
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:22pm
  It will after they install cameras to show both the driver & passengers. Don’t even try to tell me that won’t happen…..
  
  Report this comment
DougHuffman
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:15pm
The blackboxes will be integral to the Engine Control Units, so they can’t be disabled and they will report miles driven to the tax authority every time they’re near a fuel pump.

The Cubans kept their ’57 Chevies running for all these years, I’m sure we can do better.

Report this comment
Log in to Reply Reply
doomytram
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:12pm
One world governance at it’s best……chip in hand and black box in tiny box. The UN’s got a camera in your forehead.

Report this comment
Log in to Reply Reply
soybomb315_II
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:12pm
“if you aren’t doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to hide”….Isnt that what establishment republicans were saying just a few years ago?

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- Cavallo
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:18pm
  Yup, and I will admit, mea culpa, that I bought it hook line and sinker many years ago. Never again. Although now it might be too late for anyone else to bother wising up.
  
  Report this comment
- barber2
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:23pm
  SOY: That was before Obama I .
  
  Report this comment
- Al J Zira
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:28pm
  In regards to what? You can’t just throw a statement like that out there without some kind of reference or proof.
  
  Report this comment
- soybomb315_II
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:35pm
  Barber and Al Jazera
  
  If you were paying any attention during the Bush years, you would know that is a reference to the Patriot Act. That phrase was the mantra by republicans to those who felt that the government was invading our privacy and taking away our Constitutional rights. Cavallo knows exactly what i am talking about
  
  Report this comment
- therealconservative
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 8:57pm
  @soysauce
  
  They just ‘negotiated, to get SOME of what we wanted’
  
  Report this comment
DougHuffman
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:12pm
I wonder just how much the value of my 2003 VW Jetta TDI diesel just increased?

It is approaching 160K miles and still produces over 50 miles/gallon when given a chance, 2500 miles for Thanksgiving averaged 50 mpg, high 53 mpg through Chicago and Milwaukee, low 48 mpg over the mountains.

My TDI guru and I will keep it running for as long as I can buy parts.

Report this comment
Log in to Reply Reply
barber2
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:11pm
When you we get micro-chipped ?

Report this comment
Log in to Reply Reply
neiman1
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:09pm
How long until a smart techie markets a device to disable the black box. Customers await.

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- AbrahamsSheepdog
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:30pm
  Im a tech. Its not so easy. Its called a brain box for a reason. And does anyone has Onstar??? Or Garmin. Oh you do. Haha. You already have blackboxes in your 2001′s and up. They just want to upgrade.
  
  Report this comment
RIGHT_WHERE_IT_HURTS
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:07pm
Just try it, LaHood. You won’t like the results.

Report this comment
Log in to Reply Reply
Maxim Crux
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:06pm
Now you know the reason for Cash for Clunkers

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- Dr Vel
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 9:10pm
  Everyone keeps overlooking the wording. Mandatory for ALL cars. Soon poor people who can only afford an older used one will be forced off all roads. On roads they paid taxes to build. They will no longer be able to get to their jobs nor do any shopping. This ties with agenda 21 forcing them to move to crowded locations to take the buss and live on welfare.
  
  Plans within plans. Think I’ll go watch Dune again.
  
  Report this comment
- armyofnibiru
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 10:28pm
  just watched dune on HBO,saw all the parts that were cut out .and finely understood the spice.
  
  Report this comment
Cavallo
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:04pm
Soon they will have versions of black boxes to cover every aspect of your life. What you eat, how much you exercise, .. It’ll just take Obamacare to bankrupt the healthcare system and they’ll move in on controlling your personal choices. First though, they have to make it illegal to remove the black box from your vehicle, after .. of course.. you cannot get your vehicle licensed without one. Can’t afford a new vehicle? Take public transportation then. Isn’t it a wonderful and free country we live in? Keep repeating that to yourself, make sure your fingers are in your ears when you chant it.

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:09pm
  Black boxes (RFID chips)… Same diff…
  
  Report this comment
- Conservative2
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 5:16pm
  Total control, it’s coming!
  
  Report this comment
- The Giver
  Posted on December 7, 2012 at 10:48pm
  Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
  
  Report this comment

It appears that you have Javascript Disabled. Please enable Javascript in your browser preferences for a better user experience on TheBlaze. You can not comment without Javascript enabled.