Nativity on Wheels! PA Community Battles Atheist Complaints With Display of Jesus’ Birth on Platform in Front of City Hall
Secularists battling against nativities is nothing new, but 2012 has brought some major victories for atheists. Consider Santa Monica, California, where a 60-year nativity tradition has been banned; other communities have backed down over fears that Christian themes will be legally challenged by groups like the Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF) as well.
But — believers are getting smart and fighting back with some creative methods of navigating around church versus state disagreements.
TheBlaze already told you about the Santa Monica work-around: Christians will stage a live nativity, as only unattended displays were banned from the Palisades Park. Now, a community in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, has found it’s own solution to a potential atheist-led lawsuit against a display in front of a local municipal building.
KDKA-TV has more about the alternative nativity plan that is being waged in an effort to avoid a lawsuit led by the FFRF:
One group in Ellwood City has found a creative way to circumvent a potential lawsuit by displaying a nativity scene in front of the municipal building.
Instead, they’re going to put it on a truck.
The Beaver County Times reports that the Moose lodge is going to park a trailer carrying a nativity scene in front of the building.
The Freedom From Religion Foundation, based out of Wisconsin, threatened to sue the borough if it did not remove the creche.
Last year, after the FFRF first threatened to sue, so the city council, afraid of legal ramifications, moved the nativity to private property — on land in front of a former church. However, residents have been discontented with this decision. In response, they’ve decided to park a new nativity on the street right in front of the government building.
Photo Credit: WKBN-TV
“It belongs here at city hall because it does not infringe upon our First Amendment rights, in no way, shape, or form,” explained Karen Figurel, a local resident.
The nativity rolled up in front of city hall on Thursday night on an eight-foot by eight-foot trailer.
“I’d rather die standing up for what I believe in than just standing back and watching nothing happen,” added Mike Parisi, a Moose Lodge organizer.
So, for the time being, it appears the Christians have won.
Read more about the nativity battle here.
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Comments (112)
DIgnified
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 11:22pm‘I’m going to create man and woman with original sin. Then I’m going to impregnate a woman with myself as her child, so that I can be born. Once alive, I will kill myself as a sacrifice to myself to save you from the sin I originally condemned you to.’
-Christians
So terrible you made god kill himself.
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DIgnified
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 11:39pmOh and its high time to see if the SantaMonica christian idiots on parade can form a coherent though and defend their mythology. SM is about 25 minutes from here. I think this is reddit project worthy. Maybe some posterboard with bible quotes and blaze user postings.
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nonwinger
Posted on December 8, 2012 at 8:07am@Dignified, you are closer to the truth than you realize. However, if you agree with the anti-nativity atheists, you guys need to go read your history and study English.
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tootsie roll
Posted on December 8, 2012 at 6:45pmWhat is your point???????
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mzk1
Posted on December 9, 2012 at 8:09amI don’t see what your view of Christinaity has to do with any of this. I’m not Christian, but I recognize that the US is a Christian country (de facto, nort de jure) and they should be allowed to make any idsplays they want.
If you don’t like the founders you can move to Europe.
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theotherberean
Posted on December 9, 2012 at 2:33pm@DIG
In your mind, you are this great orator, who has just unswathed Christianity with scathing irony.
While the rest of us chuckle at your ignorance.
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The Giver
Posted on December 9, 2012 at 5:03pmYour idea of how you came to be is what… The Big BANG! Yeah, your explanation as to your existence is much more plausible. What intelligent design caused those initial particles to begin with? You can never answer that.
Live and let live. The government can’t establish a religion or deny you yours. There is room in front of town buildings for Nativity sets at Christmas, Minorahs at Hanukkah, and atheists will not be allowed to take that right of the people. They own it since they pay ll the taxes. Scrooge! This country doesn’t force you to believe, you will find out if you were wrong when you die. But you will never stop the true worship of Christ. The true disciple loves and forgives to the day he dies. Big displays are not like Christ, really, but it is just a reminder of the true meaning of Christmas. Get over it.
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Patriot Z
Posted on December 9, 2012 at 7:40pmdignified: seems to me that your whole life and FFRF lives are way more influenced by ‘christian mythology’ than any christian is. im athiest and i have yet to have my world shattered by a nativity scene at city hall, someone praying or saying ‘bless you’ when i sneeze or saying merry christmas. too bat people like the FFRF cant say the same thing. when they start protesting beheading under mohammed, or the hindu caste system. il take them for more than just anti christian contraryans and victoctocrats
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walkintruth
Posted on December 9, 2012 at 8:39pmNo one made Jesus die. He willing gave himself up because he is the lamb of God who came here to forgive us of our sins.After Adam and Eve fell in the garden of Eden, we became connected to the tree of knowledge because they ate from that tree. But God told them not to for a reason. They were not ready for that knowledge and God knew it would harm them. We all have original sin because of Adam and Eve. God sent his only son to teach the world about him and to save us from our sins. Jesus will return. He may have died but he is not gone. He is with all of us. We will be with him some day forever.
Jesus is our Lord and Savior.
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Goldi-lox
Posted on December 10, 2012 at 4:45amMzK11 below said, “If you don’t like the founders you can move to Europe.”
She has a good point. FREEDOM TO WORSHIP GOD AS ONE SEES FIT was a primary, if not
THE primary, reason that people came to America in the first place. If you latter-day HEATHENS & UNBELIEVERS don’t like it, just leave. It’s that simple.
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HUGGINGMYBABIES
Posted on December 10, 2012 at 5:28amYou seem a bit confused. God created man with free will. Man made his own decision, thus creating original sin. Man killed Jesus. True it was to awaken and save the world, so God did not intervene in man’s decision to kill him, but he was not slain BY God.
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stiffingtheworkingclass
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 9:49pmChalk one up for the Christians.
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FluffNana
Posted on December 9, 2012 at 1:29pmSnce these Atheists are so against mixing the Church and State, When are they going to stop celebrating the Christian Holidays? They don’t mind getting off work for these days. It is called CHRISTmas for reason, to celebrate the birth of the Saviour, Jesus Christ. You do nt have to accept His gift, but Christians are allowed the same freedoms of al other religions. Since Musims are allowed to pray in schools, so should Christians be allowed. What frredom is taken away ro one religion should be taken away from ALL religons.
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sallyredneck
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 7:20pmWhat are we going to do when Agenda 21 kicks in? No private owned property, no church property, only common community property. This might be how they are getting the population used to all being the same.
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Keatonc33
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 7:30pmAgenda 21 is a joke. Its nothing like what Glenn beck describes. he’s just trying to make a buck off your paranoia.
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Git-R-Done
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 8:15pmKeaton – That’s b/c you don’t want to do this thing called reading. You might want to look it up.
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DIgnified
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 11:42pm‘Oh no the UN wants everyone the same! Let’s save ourselves and kill all nonwhite non christian human beings. That will save us from the UN wanting to eliminate individuality and freedom! Yay not thinking!’
-idiots like you
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mzk1
Posted on December 9, 2012 at 8:11amYou can either have sepration of Church and State or you can have Socialism. you can’t have both.
“Dignified”, who is anything but, perfectly proves what the danger is.
And I am not a Christian, but I know who the enemy is, and it isn’t them.
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The Giver
Posted on December 9, 2012 at 5:20pmWe will continue to live our lives the way we do now.
@ Dig- you do not understand individuality. You must have gone to a government school! Liberty movement has nothing to do with ‘getting’ non white folks like myself or non Christians like you. It is about being left alone to live our lives, not being told how big your soda can be, what color car to buy, what size toilet to use and believe me, plus the other gazillion things they will regulate before I finish typing this. You like being controlled, good or you. You and half this country are facilitating this Nanny State. A Nativity set is really the last of your problems thanks to how you voted. Enjoy!
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wthtamfm
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 6:05pmWe need an FFAT – Freedom From Atheist Tyranny group. Unlike Penn Jillette, these people are out to denigrate the rights of religious people and their attacks must be stopped!
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Balpit
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 6:21pmAmen.
If the FFRF can put up their own Nativity (which was designed solely to insult Christianity), why can’t Christians put up their own non-offensive Nativity?
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Keatonc33
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 7:29pmAmen! how dare they try to stop us from shoving our beliefs down everyones throats!
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Git-R-Done
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 8:16pmKeaton – And you Marxists don’t try to shove your beliefs down everyone’s throats?
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DIgnified
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 11:01pm@git. Marxism isn’t a government model. It is a prediction of cause and effect. Capitalist will hoard resources limiting entrepreneurial opportunities and reducing others to slavery. And the slaves won’t like it. And if you’re a slave fight back because you have nothing to lose.
Learn what things mean before you speak.
For example; we can never…get that? NEVER FREAKING EVAR! replace democracy with socialism. One is economic and is government. Socialism can replace capitalism and vice versa.
Put another layer of tin foil on your hat. The ******-rays are frying your brain.
Have fun playing the victim and looking like an entire political party of ignorant i d i o t s who thinks everything revolves around them and their magic friend.
An entire party of Christpocrisy.
Obama not negotiating or just doing what repunlicans say makes him a dictator.
But conversely Republicans not negotiating makes them somehow good.
Don’t read.
Don’t think.
Don’t question.
Don’t grow.
Vote republican.
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tbolt71
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 4:34pmPlease make it a point to see the movie “THE LAST OUNCE OF COURAGE” …I just bought it at walmart…it is all about this subject and how a town handled it…it is also loaded with patriotism for our troops…A DEFINITE MUST SEE!!!!!
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HeyLanny
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 4:46pmAn excellent family film filled with understanding, compassion and wisdom. “Facing the Giants” is another good one to watch. The movie “The Apostle” has some thoughtful corners of the heart to touch. “This Side of Heaven”, is a great movie to include especially if you like true movies and exotic Islands. God Bless and Merry Christmas to all who will receive it and to those who don’t, No problem!
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HeyLanny
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 4:33pmLet us clarify this. There are also those who use the Church and religion as their own tool for selfish purposes as much as atheists do in their personal lives. Jesus stated very clearly that when he returned he would judge his own servants- rewarding and disciplining all men righteously.
Matthew 24
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
My point is this. The raving and cursing of the mouth is evidence of what is being conceived and nurtured by the heart which God will judge. This goes for all men and is what separates the wheat from the weeds in the population of freewill humans that God created. Therefore make sure you judge yourself sincerely and by God’s truth before you judge any other men by your hypocrisy. I simply speak as a man and as a minister of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Its his Gospel. Not mine. For by our own mouth, we are either justified or condemned.
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thegreatcarnac
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 4:06pmI have known a few ateists in my time. One was a regular guy and was not one of those people who identify themselves by their belief or lack of it. Most atheist will let you know they are unbelievers after talking to you one minute. They are like vegans who will almost yell their hatred of meat to the rooftops. Who cares? Both are sick little people.
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DIgnified
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 11:26pmYeah because the atheists are driving around in trashy pickups slinging their beliefs? You are pathetic. There’s no heaven. But if there was, your never see it. Almost no one on this site would. Enjoy your pagan holiday disguised as a mythological figures birthday and treating the myth as fact. Maybe you can have a unicorn in there somewhere.
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alrunner58
Posted on December 8, 2012 at 10:28amThese “little people” are very insecure.
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Camptown Races
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 3:22pmThe problem with merely “just moving nativities to private or church property” to appease all ‘non believers’ is that the NON believers STILL find a way to either steal, desecrate, or vandalize the nativities. I should note that most all of them go UNPUNISHED. Those crimes are basically IGNORED. If, on the other hand, a believer has a problem or voices out, even peacefully, against things that are against their faith WITHOUT even so much as laying physical hands on a person or property, they are quickly brought up on “HATE CRIME” charges.
So again, I’m still going to ask the question to atheists…. Since you are so convinced that God does not exist, why do these symbols even bother you in the first place?? Aren’t you content enough to just look at all of us ignorant Christians while we stand there to look or honor a sign of our ignorant faith in the boogie man, laugh it off, and then just walk away shaking your heads??? When I don’t agree with something, I don’t try to BAN it all… (and trust me, I don’t agree with MUCH these days that the media tries to sell or push off on me as entertainment….) I click it off…. or shut it off…. and then go read a really good BOOK or do something else… It really is THAT easy….
Is there a reason why I never EVER see any menorahs out anymore to celebrate Hanukka? Back when I was growing up, BOTH the cross and the Menorah were displayed everywhere. I don’t remember hearing ONE complaint.. not one.
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jrc99
Posted on December 9, 2012 at 6:42amIt’s because the majority of atheists know that if they are wrong they will be held accountable to God. And what a better way of ignoring than persecuting Christians and their message? Remember when a lie get told over and over eventually it becomes true, the basis of atheism.
Psalms 14:1 & 53:1
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Airdoc
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 2:56pmHow about a counter lawsuit that this group is prohibiting the free exercise of my religion as actually written in the 1st Amendment?
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CONSERVATIVE SUMMER
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 2:24pmI want to be an honorary member of the Moose Lodge and Mike Parisi’s new best friend!
If you’re not celebrating the birth of Jesus at Christmas, then you’re not celebrating Christmas! It detests me when non-Christians try to denigrate the truly special and sacred meaning of Christmas.Just because you haven’t yet found the pure joy of getting to know my SAVIOR, doesn’t mean you can crap all over my joyous celebration of his birth!
AAAAGGGGHHHHH! People make me crazy mad!!!!!
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muffythetuffy
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 2:51pmSECESSION
What must the Government do to you before you begin to support secession. America was never like this and you know it.
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BeCrazyTimes
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 2:18pmIf people of faith are not welcome at State and Federal buildings a simple solution is to move those celebrations to other non Governmental sites. The birth of Jesus is the one of the most significant events for people of faith and can not be ignored. We will survive just fine with out the Government.
Let’s save some money and ban all celebrations at all buildings associated with the Government. No office parties or celebrations of any kind for any religious holiday. Why have a Holiday Tree or an Easter Egg Roll. Why would non believers even need the day off. Non believing Government Employees don’t seem to mind those perks. In fairness I’m sure that most non believing Government Employees don’t mind the fact that these celebrations are held at Government sites.
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jackact
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 1:21pmNativity on Wheels ~ Awesome!
:)
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TeresaJ
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 1:00pmThe source page has even more information. This just tickles me all over. Go Americans! ^^
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coldnorth
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 1:30pmFFRF or whatever they are called are nothing but bullys. I hate to be reduced to name calling but take a look at the facts. They go around picking on small cities and towns threatening law suits that they know the cities can’t afford to fight. Do they ever think about the communities that have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars fighting these law suits. No. If they truely are offended by the birth of Jesus Christ, and feel the heat of brimstone everytime they look at a Christmas tree, maybe they should threaten to sue the Obama administration for setting up a massive Chirstmas tree at the whitehouse.
It’s like any other bully. When you turn around and knock their a$$ on the ground they run away with their tail between their legs. I’m sure when FFRF look at Obama’s Christmas tree they either have two thoughts. 1. Obama’s one of us. We don’t want to make him look bad. We’ll let this one slide. 2. We can lay our principles aside on this one boys, the feds would grind us into cookie dust.
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drs1969
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 4:02pmFFRF is an anti-Christian Jewish backed organization. Go to their website. Read about their members. I’m not making it up.
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Grubmeister
Posted on December 8, 2012 at 10:20am@Coldnorth,
It’s not that the towns and cities lack the money to fight the lawsuits. It’s that they know they will lose. The courts have repeatedly sided with the FFRF and other groups which have brought suit. These suits have established precendents that will not be defeated with a determined fight. Theists may win at the local level but as it moves up the court system they lose.
I really don’t understand what is so difficult to understand about this. For some reason many of the posters here at the Blaze think this is just a matter of courage or money. While I’m sure there are people within the FFRF that would like to stamp out religion altogether, they can’t do that because of the constitution and it’s amendments. The primary goal for the FFRF is to eliminate any religious influence on our government. As an atheist myself, I support the right of any individual to believe what they want. Where and how they express that belief should have limits however. It makes no difference to me how many of the founders of this country were christian, deist or even scientologists. We live in the now, not the then. They had the country they wanted to create. We will live in the country we make ourselves, using our laws, our courts and our democratic tools.
I understand why a religion, a sect and a person belonging to same would like to continue in a fashion that’s been advantageous to them over the years. Unfortunately, a new generation of nonbelievers has learned the rules to t
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From Virginia
Posted on December 8, 2012 at 11:22pm@Grub – You are still missing the point. If a town is happy putting up a Christmas display why is it the business of an out of town busibody that makes it their goal in life to travel around and sue poeple?
And you don’t want religion out of everything – you will never get the 10 Commandments OUT of the Supreme Court building and you will never be able to stop congress from opening their sessions with a prayer. You will never go after the Christmas displays in DC at all the government building including the congress buildings and the White House.
What you seem to be in favor of is bullying little towns into removing their displays and that makes you beneath contempt, because what you are actually in favor of is destroying our traditions.
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JungleTrump
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 1:00pmThe atheists need to pipe down. If God offends you then you agree he exists, therefore you are a contridiction. Bring it!
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RajCaj
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 4:20pmThey aren’t really offended (well most anyway). They pretend to be offended, because it then becomes some kind of infringement on their 1st amendment…which helps give leverage in legal proceedings.
It’s just a means to an end…..and end is religion completely whitewashed from society.
Some only take a more “libertarian” approach, where they they have a ideological problem with any form of government influence (funds & property) being involved with anything remotely related to religion at all. But the more activist hard liners actually believe that they have a duty to society to be more active in their opposition. To “live & let live” is to endorse ignorance….which is blasphemy when your world revolves around science.
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Grubmeister
Posted on December 8, 2012 at 10:47amJungletrump,
Your reasoning makes no sense.
I, and any other atheist, are not offended by god or your beliefs in he/she/it. We see no evidence for, and have had no experience which proves, or even strongly suggests, the existence of a god. We are no more offended by god than Darth Vader. To us, both are fictional characters. If, at some point, god should appear, or provide more evidence of existence, I and other atheists will re-examine our beliefs. This isn’t about harboring hatred. It’s about being honest. Can anyone really blame a person for expressing and acting upon their honest beliefs? I would be profoundly disappointed should I find a christian was lying about the truth they claimed to “know”. Atheists may be offended by behaviors and beliefs expressed by believers however. Most atheists are offended by theists who insist everyone live according to their rules for no reason other than that they’ve had their way for a couple of thousand years already. Atheists are just beginning to recognize each other, gathering strength along the way. We’ve begun to flex our muscles in the court and are just now making headway in removing religion from government. This isn’t something I think a theist should take offense to. Whereas I’m sure some atheists use the courts as a tool to harm religion itself, I’m sure most are just trying to improve our government by stripping the parasites from it. I believe it to be patriotic to level the playing field.
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From Virginia
Posted on December 8, 2012 at 11:30pm@Grub – Again, it’s an American tradition and THAT’S what you are trying to destroy. Anything that is traditional you people try to dismantle or destroy. You people really ARE a bore. You suck the fun out of everything. Kids can’t exchange Valentine’s anymore nor make their own Holloween costums at school. Things that broke the year up to liven things up you people HAVE to put an end to it.
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universalphilos
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:52pmThen there is transcribed audio –
“Hark, the herald,” hear angels tell of the coming of the Messiah: http://webspace.webring.com/people/oa/aup/christmas1.html
(Click continued links to read their account.)
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BACKUPOFFMYLIBERTY
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:51pmWe’ve been celebrating Christ’s birth for over 2000 years. Nobody is forcing the FFRF to participate. They’re more than welcome to scratch Christmas off their calendar and go in to work on the 25th just like any other day. That would be fine! Nobody is attacking or suing atheists, because they have the right to believe and celebrate (or not celebrate) whatever they want. Citation: The 1st Amendment. Stop dumping on Christmas.
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DIgnified
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 11:49pmRight off the bat, you’re a liar or ignorant. Or both. The first celebration of Christmas as a holiday was under Justinian in 529ce. The Dec25th holiday was commandeered to make Christianity more palatable to pagans. Over the centuries other holiday traditions snuck in. Stockings, coal, yule, fruitcake, st Nick the prostitutes best friend, etc.
Not everything belongs to you and your cult. You never know that though by talking to a christpocrisy believer.
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Grubmeister
Posted on December 8, 2012 at 11:00amEveryone loves a day off (except maybe the boss). However, if the only way atheists could eliminate “christmas” from being a holiday (and being accused of hypocricy), they would happily move it to Dec. 24th, or any other day, and call it something else. I’m not going to pass up a day off, spent with my family, just because it happens to be popularly associated with something I don’t believe in. I’m sure people with sympathies towards the KKK still take MLK day off if offered. They just don’t do it for the same reason.
My wife is catholic and I have no problem with it. I’d stongly consider divorce if she insisted I take the sacrament though. There may be other catholics who consider her a hypocrite for marrying a non-catholic but that’s their problem. Neither my wife or I have to give it any weight. Welcome to the new world, where we don’t have to worry about being burned at the stake for non-compliance by some pinhead who thinks he understands his cryptic books better than anyone else.
Personally, I’m lobbying for the 24th being named Grubmas. I’m currently looking for volunteers to joint my lobbying organization. I see no reason why congress should turn down this amazing opportunity.
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seek.the.truth
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:34pmThe Freedom from Religion group from Wisconsin has been threatening to sue everyone. We have a local high school that is in the middle of a lawsuit with them because the school district has refused to remove a ten commandments display. The people in the community are pissed and are going to fight this all the way.
Perhaps every community should hold their ground just as the school district, which is also in Pennsylvania have done. God bless all who hold their ground against this group which is systematically attempting to stomp on our freedoms. MERRY CHRISTMAS!
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ThereIsNoOtherStream
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:43pmGreat suggestion. They are a very small group. If enough Christians stand up to them, they will be spread so thin they could not sustain their little war. But if we allow them to only have to fight little battles, they might win the war. For lack of a nail, the horse was lost. For lack of a horse, the soldier was lost. For lack of a soldier the battle was lost. For loss of the battle, the war was lost.
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BODYBAG
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:43pm@SEEK.THE.TRUTH
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:34pm
Perhaps every community should hold their ground
————————-
Absolutely. And Merry Christmas to you and yours!!!!!!
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drs1969
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 4:06pmTheir Comrades at the ACLJew have done the same thing for years. They seem to have the same reaction that Dracula had to the cross. Maybe Dracula had a little Jewish blood?
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DIgnified
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 11:35pm@drs No, I dont see how republicans could be mistaken for Nazis. Total propaganda from the left….
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DesertRose1960
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:30pmLook, if you allow Christians to put up a Creche on taxpayer land with taxpayer dollars, you open the door for others to put up symbols from their religion, too. The state of Washington had a display from the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster in their capitol building. The U.S. military is forced to give chapel space and time to groups like the Wiccans out of the rule of religious freedom. I don’t have a problem with Wiccans or Hindus or Muslims practicing their faith, but from my experience, a lot of Fundamentalist Christians do. They’re fine with Freedom of Religion as long as it is their tradition that is being put forth, but to Hell with anybody else’s traditions. I believe that public buildings like courthouses and state houses should remain neutral during this time of year. If the person wants to do something at their desk, okay, but taxpayer money shouldn’t be spent on religious symbols at anytime during the year. As the Pastafarians say, “Ramen”.
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Danar_the_Angosian
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 1:06pmYou’re a genuine moron, a real and genuine idiot…this country wasn’t founded by Hindus, Muslims nor Wiccans.
My mother went to school and they sung Hymns and recited the Pledge of Allegiance at the start of every day of class. Her generation was “the Greatest” and it is an abject, crying, despicable SHAME at which point our Nation finds itself.
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God_Is_Not
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 1:36pmDynar,
You’re not going to win this battle. This country isn’t, and never has been, a theocracy. The personal faith of the founders is irrelevant. Many were also deists. It’s irrelevant. The 1st amendment offers all religion equal protection under the law. This means that if you award specific privileges to one, then you’re awarding them to all. Wouldn’t we all be better protected if the government stayed out of religion?
Also, resorting to name calling is essentially confirmation that you dont have much of a counter argument.
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TeresaJ
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 1:45pm“This time of year” is a federal holiday.
I don’t at all have an issue with other faiths showing symbols of their faith. I have an issue with the illegal twisting of the First Amendment, and outside groups or even a few in a large community ruining the community spirit of a group.
I promise you, it is not Jewish people, or muslims, who are causing all these problems. Wiccans, now there I have seen some issues, considering they worship what is considered to be true evil and pagan by Christians, and honestly, most of them seem to be young kids who have otherwise already been warped by a completely uneducated and un-American society.
If there be a town of Jewish people, or a town of Muslims, then as per our country is supposed to run, with smaller local governments meeting the needs of the local people, then I would expect to see Jewish symbols, and a Jewish leaning of faith in the local government. That is our right as Americans. The same goes for a Christian town or city. Never, never is suppression of faith supposed to happen in America. It is in fact, foundational to a free society. A republic cannot run without a moral and just people. Without a just and righteous government, there is no liberty, and without faith, there is no America. Any person who would try to suppress expressions of faith (real faith, not trolls) is not an American.
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Grubmeister
Posted on December 8, 2012 at 11:37amTheresa,
Wholesale supression, or elimination, of faith is not the primary goal of the FFRF or atheists in general. Elimination of religious influence from government and government funded agencies is front and center however. I agree with you that ” foundational to a free society”. This is a free speech issue. I do not believe it should be without limits. Those limits are continuously being either established, or re-established, depending upon who you are talking to. I think it unfortunate that the founders of this nation left the 1st amendment vague. I personally believe Jefferson, who as I understand it, corresponded with Madison on this issue, would have supported a ban on religious influence within the government. Others would not have at that time. I recognize the this has been made clear as mud over the last 225 years of the history of this country. We’ve swayed back and forth over it. The pushback is now underway but I don’t think it should come as any surprise. While using the courts, and our political system, to wipe religion from our culture would be obscene, removing it from our governent would only increase its efficiency. It has no business in that business. There are other businesses it has no business in but we can only tackle one issue at a time.
I recognize atheists are having a hard time convincing theists of their intentions. Either that, or theists are intentionally being obtuse so as to continue to get their way.
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Grubmeister
Posted on December 8, 2012 at 11:42amFor some reason my post was altered along the way. It should have said :
I agree with you that [non-suppression of faith is] “foundational to a free society”.
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b2smooth
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:29pmJust throw in a menorah and put it back where it belongs. The government then has no power because it “no longer promotes one religion over another.” Having nothing there at all is letting the anti-religion win. I have no problem if an atheist wants to put up a “happy winter solstice” decoration that is there right, but don’t take away our rights because of your own intolerance.
Happy Winter Solstice, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Kwanzaa, and MERRY CHRISTMAS!
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b2smooth
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:43pmtheir right, not there right…sorry
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DIgnified
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 11:32pmI guess you’re one of those people that won’t read further. Ergo you’d miss the vandalism and death threats from the ‘godly’ christians to the atheist displays and Santa Monica city council respectively, that got the ban put in place. Not atheists or lawsuits. Intolerance and violence. CBS2 LA has the original piece. What do you have to say to that?
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seriouslywhy
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:19pmThis is okay…put the nativity on wheels and pull it through town…more people will see it!! It’s actually the way the Easter story used to be told 1,000 years ago! Go for it!
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December7
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:24pmSomeone has do something to stop this insanity which is fundemntally based on UnAmerican ideals. Read fresh political commentary at: http://smallcraftadvisorychronicles.blogspot.com/
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RJJinGadsden
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:07pmDo what it takes. The FFRF will need to learn to live with those who are religious.
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BODYBAG
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:42pm““I’d rather die standing up for what I believe in than just standing back and watching nothing happen,” added Mike Parisi, a Moose Lodge organizer.”
Now there’s a guy who has MY respect.
This Communist/Progressive/Atheist assault is not going to stop until people stand up.
Tell the atheists, the courts and everyone else to go F themselves.
Lets have some stout Patriots go and storm the FFRF offices. Turn the tables on them
and let them experience a bit of FEAR for a change. Throw a molotov cocktail through
the front window. Give ‘em a dose of their own medicine.
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critterbait
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 11:51amRoll on JESUS Roll on … No room at the Inn …. Poor guy just keeps on getting pushed around doenst he ??? But always room at my home Jesus …
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CatB
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:23pmMine also … and outside in MY yard .. I do hope the Obamavoter drug dealer across and kittycorner from my home IS offended. Still has his Obama sign in his yard.
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DIgnified
Posted on December 8, 2012 at 12:08amJesus is almost like jello. There’s always room for what’s not there.
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B-45
Posted on December 8, 2012 at 1:11am@(Un)DignifiedIdiot, kind of like your empty skull lacking a brain…?
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ltb
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 11:50amThat’s just sad. Don’t put the nativity on a truck to avoid a lawsuit, TELL THE FFRF TO BRING ON THE LAWSUIT AND CALL THE ADF – THEY WILL DEFEND YOU PRO BONO. We need to bankrupt the FFRF by dragging them into court every time they threaten a lawsuit.
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Cavallo
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:30pmThat is how Walmart stops litigation. They fight every single lawsuit and never settle. Over the long run it keeps their litigation costs down.
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seek.the.truth
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:37pmI agree.
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DesertRose1960
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:37pmAnd what if it bankrupts the town, instead? How much did defending Creationists cost the Dover, PA school board? How much did it cost the people of Pennsylvania to lose the case? I have no problem with Nativity scenes on church property, it’s where they belong. Santa and Rudolph have become secular, commercial symbols, if private businesses what to decorate with them, no problem, but very few businesses willl be putting up Christian symbols during this time, they don’t want to lose anybody’s business.
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drs1969
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 4:15pmThe ultimate goal, of suing cities, is to drive Christians into hiding. This has happened before. You must worship their State.
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ltb
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 7:25pmDesertRose1960, pro bono means “for free.” There is no way legal fees could bankrupt the town if there are no legal fees. Actually, if the state has “loser pays” like Texas, the attorneys for the city could go after the FFRF for legal fees after they win (and the city would win).
You know what? Your cowardice really irritates me. It’s bad enough that evil organizations like the FFRF are actively trying to destroy our freedom, but for people to be spineless in the face of such evil is appalling. Hitler didn’t conquer Germany because he had a majority of the people behind him, he conquered Germany because of people like you who said, “Oh just let them do what they want and this will pass, let’s not make waves.”
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DIgnified
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 11:17pm@ltb you are one of the dumbest people I’ve read on this site. No wonder people are leaving the church in droves. That myth has used its 15 minutes a couple billion minutes ago. You thinking a tacky display of a myth about a perfect magic guy, who can’t make anything correctly apparently, who created a ‘perfect’ servant, who rebelled and went homicidal, humans, whose entire course of history was dictated by the actions of two individuals and a talking reptilian fruit vendor, who Mr perfect allowed to be there. Then he decides, we, his creation are messing up his other creations, so he drowns everyone but eight people. Then after that too failed, Mr perfect decided that the only way to save us from himself was to father himself and kill himself to appease his own anger at his creation for eating some fruit, so he didn’t have to kill his creations in hell. Which he created as well.
Bunch of delusional subhumans.
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ltb
Posted on December 8, 2012 at 11:43pmDignified, you atheists believe nothing exploded into everything after nobody did anything and you’re calling Christians “dumb”? When people like you can tell me what’s one mile beyond the edge of the Universe, or what happened one second before the “Big Bang,” or what it feels like to be dead for one hundred years, then I’ll care what you have to say about existential matters. Out of curiosity, does your hate-filled attitude ever win anyone over to atheism? It seems like it would repel most people.
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pap pap
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 11:43amHeh atheists stick this in your ****.
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GhostOfJefferson
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 11:42amWait a minute. It’s 2012. We shouldn’t be using wheels (where we’re at, we shouldn’t need wheels!). We need this on hover boards. Throw in a Mr. Fusion to power the lights and we’ll be golden!
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Exrepublisheep
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 11:54amHow 1% of you to think everyone can afford hoverboards.
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T-2
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:04pmelectric green hoverboards.
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Cavallo
Posted on December 7, 2012 at 12:47pmThats 2015, we still have time… not really but.. miracles can happen..
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