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Report: Atheists, Religious Skeptics Face Persecution & Execution Across the Globe

Dec. 10, 2012 8:33am Billy Hallowell

International Humanist and Ethical Union Report Cites Atheist Persecution

Photo Credit: IHEU

Atheist activists frequently tout their intense belief that they are discriminated against, mistreated and persecuted. Now, a new study from the International Humanist and Ethical Union (IHEU) may corroborate these claims, as it finds that it is not uncommon for secularists to face intense scrutiny — even execution — in nations across the globe.

The report, entitled, ”Freedom of Thought 2012,” spans 70 pages and finds that in Europe and the United States, among other localities, there are policies that purportedly favor the religious over non-believers, with atheists and agnostics regularly treated as outsiders.

In Islamic countries, the alleged discrimination is most pronounced and in seven nations atheists may actually pay for their secularism with their lives. Reuters has more about some of the purported discriminatory policies that are waged against non-belief:

The report…said “there are laws that deny atheists’ right to exist, curtail their freedom of belief and expression, revoke their right to citizenship, restrict their right to marry.”

Other laws “obstruct their access to public education, prohibit them from holding public office, prevent them from working for the state, criminalize their criticism of religion, and execute them for leaving the religion of their parents.”

It is important to note that the IHEU is a secular hub for more than 120 atheist, agnostic, humanist and other related organizations in 40 countries. Considering the group’s scope — to advance the cause of non-belief — there is clearly a bias in the preparation and publication of the report. However, many of the findings are compelling.

The levels to which the stated discrimination exists differ greatly by nation. In some countries like Bangladesh, Egypt and Indonesia, among others, atheist views cannot be published, as “blasphemy” laws govern the land.

And in countries like Malaysia, citizens must register with religious systems — and the options are limited generally to the Abrahamic faiths. Non-believers are, thus, forced to reluctantly choose a religion in order to get travel documents, go to college and receive medical care. Reuters continues:

In Europe, sub-Saharan Africa and Latin and North America, countries which identify themselves secular give privileges to or favor Christian churches in providing education and other public services, the IHEU said.

In Greece and Russia, the Orthodox Church is fiercely protected from criticism and is given pride of place on state occasions, while in Britain bishops of the Church of England have automatic seats in the upper house of parliament.

These, of course, are only some of the infractions; the document is filled with a multitude of information about other regions and the treatment of resident atheists. Read the full report for more.

(H/T: Reuters)

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Comments (218)

CWPrequired
Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:21am
When a Nation Forgets God- amazing book that shows how and why the liberal left uses this tactic.

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- ashestoashes
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 11:33am
  There is one God(YHVH) and His only begotten SON..Jesus (Yeshua)..Other religions are “Lucy in the Sky” religions..Lucifer disguises himself as an angel of light.. To follow YHVH and to have accepted His Son..and follow in His path is eternal life in paradise..To follow any other is eternal damnation and torment..where one will never cease to exist..where the worm will never die…although one would wish it to..Some have been blessed to be in the divine presence of the one true God..and to have experienced the Holy Spirit..I have experienced this..and it is hard to find..most churches do not have it..For love covers a multitude of sins..and without love..signs such as tongues are clanging symbols..and all gifts fall away..but love is what remains..My experience is.. it is easier to find the truth and the love in home study groups..Once you have experienced it..you will never be satisfied unless you are in the presence of the one true God whose Son is Jesus/Yeshua..Read the KJ or NKJ Bible..ask for guidance from the Holy Spirit in reading it and ask Him to take you where you need to be..Blessings.
  
  Report this comment
- AUsername
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 11:49am
  i guess working and paying taxes is not enough for allot of religous nutjobs.
  
  Report this comment
- COFemale
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 12:28pm
  AUsername How does paying taxes and working hard determine your moral code. The moral code has to come from somewhere. For those who follow and read the Bible, that moral code was established by God. When society/man determines their own moral code, it is subject to flaws and man has a tendency to fudge a lot on moral codes.
  
  The fact that you refer to those who follow a religion as nut jobs shows your intolerance for others beliefs. You deem yourself superior to those who believe and follow God. This is the very point of God; that you are not superior than anyone else. You are the same as everyone else. YOU ARE NOT SPECIAL and NOT PERFECT and will always fall to the flaws of being a human.
  
  I will pray that you see the error of your thinking and will embrace everyone regardless of their beliefs, even when the are contrary to your own. God Be With You AUSERName.
  
  Report this comment
- ltb
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 1:33pm
  That was a good book. You should also read “The Harbinger.”
  
  Report this comment
- Pontiaku
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 2:51pm
  [The moral code has to come from somewhere.]
  There is NO evidence morals come from anywhere other than MEN. God authored no books.
  
  [You deem yourself superior to those who believe and follow God.]
  Oh yes, no theist ever deemed themselves superior to those that do not goosestep to their imaginary sky bully.
  Give it a rest.
  
  http://i50.tinypic.com/2q8vlzc.jpg
  
  Report this comment
- BuzzardSays
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 5:46pm
  To Pontiaku,
  Atheists never did nuttin to nobody…oh except foist evolutionary lies upon the children….oh and insult sincere people of Christian faith with their atheist constant legal attack on all Christian symbols. Oh and hate Christians with such a vitirolic passion that murder is in your thoughts toward decent loving Christian men and women. Oh and don’t forget the FSM insult towards Christ whom I love, and the Walking Zombie Insult also.
  
  I tried many times to have conversation with atheists only to discover that Jesus nailed it when He said don’t cast your pearls before the swine lest they turn and tear you to pieces.
  
  So I guess I should go “BooHooHoo” atheists are being afflicted. Get over it. At least when I am afflicted or persecuted in the name of Christ I understand I am not greater than my Master, Jesus, my Teacher. It must really stick in the atheists craw when they wonder why their message is so worthy of a serious Gob Smack. Do atheists look to Darwin or Dawkins and wonder why their master appears to be largely unmolested???
  
  God considers atheists fools and I do too. How cool is that? Now I think I jump on the band wagon and persecute an atheist. Na Na Nah na boo boo atheists are fools. God says so.
  
  Report this comment
- pickup1988
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 6:08pm
  Buzzardsays,
  The Bible says God is love. Your post embodies nothing resembling love. Therefore, you do not know the God of the Bible, you only pretend to.
  
  Report this comment
- Dr. Sandy Kramer
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 8:40pm
  Here we go again, separating the wheat from the chaff. Which is which? That’s up to each of us to decide.
  
  Report this comment
- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 11, 2012 at 10:35am
  PICKUP1988 FOR THE WIN!!!
  
  @BUZZARDSAYS
  “Oh and hate Christians with such a vitirolic passion that murder is in your thoughts toward decent loving Christian men and women. Oh and don’t forget the FSM insult towards Christ whom I love, and the Walking Zombie Insult also.”
  
  I am an atheist who has no thoughts of murder against anyone. Check out ONEIRISHMAN and BODYBAG for Christians who would murder atheists though. In fact, I have not seen ONE atheist posting here who advocates any violence against anyone… believer or not. You say later that you regard atheists as fools, so why do you let the Zombie Jew and FSM sarcasm they toss bother you so much? Being bothered by fools seems like a terrible waste of time and energy.
  
  “God considers atheists fools and I do too. How cool is that? Now I think I jump on the band wagon and persecute an atheist. Na Na Nah na boo boo atheists are fools. God says so.”
  
  I’ve read more mature commentary from 5-year olds. I’m sure you make your God very proud.
  
  Report this comment
- G-WHIZ
  Posted on December 11, 2012 at 12:58pm
  Relax…it’s only SHARIA LAW!!
  
  Report this comment
Oneirishman
Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:16am
Finally a feel good story. And of course we must take the atheists word for it that they are persecuted. Got nothing to do with the belittlement of others beliefs. Typical Liberal Victims.

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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:24am
  I am an atheist and a voluntaryist. I am socially liberal (against the war on drugs etc), but undoubtedly more fiscally conservative than you. You really shouldn’t stereotype.
  
  Report this comment
- Oneirishman
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:42am
  You’ve been trolling this issue all day. Are there no gay issues for you to get you panties in a bunch over.
  
  Report this comment
- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:49am
  Hardly trolling… I’m simply expressing a view you disagree with, but like DougHuff, you offer nothing of substance in your retorts.
  
  Report this comment
- Oneirishman
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 11:01am
  Like Doug I don’t have to. Just reading your posts tells everyone most folks don’t listen to you face to face. Thereby, you must post your stupidity just to finish a sentence and desperately want people to listen. You have no value intellectually or socially.
  
  Report this comment
- YouCantExplainThat
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 11:03am
  Oh! Ad hominem, how creative @oneirishman.
  
  Report this comment
- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 11:14am
  @ONEIRISHMAN
  
  No, you don’t owe me or anyone anything. But I find it odd you gave me something you didn’t owe me, and that I didn’t deserve: an ad hominem insult because I disagree with you. I haven’t insulted you or anyone else, but Christians quickly release some pretty nasty vitriol against people who disagree with them. Folks like BodyBag even advocate our execution. What a fantastic example of your Christ you and the others are.
  
  BTW, you might do well to post some empirical evidence to support your claim of my stupidity or lack of worth. Tsk, tsk, tsk… I thought Jesus died for me, too. Why would He die for something worthless?
  
  Report this comment
- Oneirishman
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 11:16am
  @YOUCANTEXPLAINSQUAT
  But his quote that he’s “more fiscally conservative” then I, is not Ad Hominem, right? Stop being a follower and try using your own brain.
  
  Report this comment
- Oneirishman
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 11:22am
  @CHRISY
  Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin all atheist that had all the answers like you.
  
  Report this comment
- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 11:34am
  @ONEIRISH
  
  Yes, I would bet I am much more fiscally conservative than you. You know why? Because I don’t want government taking any taxes or doing any spending at all. None. Zilch. Nada. Not for social welfare, corporate welfare, imperialism-er, I mean defense, courts, cops, health care, roads, education, energy, ag, pharma etc ad nauseum. Taxation is theft. If you support any of the programs I’ve listed, then you are not as fiscally conservative as I am. Stating such wasn’t an ad hominem.
  
  Report this comment
- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 11:37am
  @ONEIRISHMAN
  
  Sorry, forgot to address this in the previous post. Lumping me in with any of those murderers is laughable. They wanted to bring about a socialist/communist utopia. I abhor both socialism and communism. Their answer was to kill those who disagreed with them or got in their way. I believe the only justifiable use of violence is in self-defense to direct and imminent threats. Why in the world would you believe that being atheists made it so our beliefs on society, government, morality etc were automatically in agreement? That just shows that you don’t have any idea what you are talking about.
  
  Report this comment
- Oneirishman
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 12:16pm
  CHRISY
  You are the optimum idiot. And know that people like me will do everything to bring an end to you. By any means necessary, legal or not.
  
  Report this comment
- COFemale
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 12:20pm
  This one story is true and this is why living in America should not be taken for granted. Many countries do look down on atheist, but they are not free countries either in the sense that the U.S. is free. They usually are run by dictators. Some countries who are die-hard religious fanatics i.e. Islamic countries, well you will die if you aren’t Islam. Just like the unions, join or you don’t work.
  
  Atheist in America have it good. If you don’t want to believe in God, so be it. Don’t deny my right to believe and exercise that belief as guaranteed by the Constitution. This may mean I create a Nativity scene in a park, whether real or inanimate, you do not have a right to stop me. Don’t believe, don’t look at the scene. Walk past or if you want to counter my scene get a permit and display yours. Hey you might look like a petty fool and people may laugh at you, but that is your call.
  
  Those who are trying to suppress religious freedoms are Satan’s children. That is Satan’s goal to remove the word of God and God from the earth. Satan wants to be head honcho and let evil prevail. This by no means all atheist are spawns of Satan, only those who file lawsuits against Christians and no other religious factions. Atheist can be good people, but I question whose moral code they follow and which takes precedence.
  
  Report this comment
- sputnik
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 12:29pm
  @Chris
  
  You are a phony. I was agreeing with you until you exposed yourself as a bigot. From your own words,
  
  “I haven’t insulted you or anyone else, but Christians quickly release some pretty nasty vitriol against people who disagree with them.”
  
  You will never get far doing the same nasty things you accuse others of doing. Lumping anyone into a group in a negative way is Ad hominem. Your double standard has cost you credibility.
  
  Report this comment
- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 12:34pm
  @ONEIRISHMAN
  
  “CHRISY
  You are the optimum idiot. And know that people like me will do everything to bring an end to you. By any means necessary, legal or not.”
  
  And you and your ilk are precisely the reason that atheists take whatever measures we have to to protect ourselves from your insanity. I haven’t threatened you, I have not even hinted at support for anything, any measure or action that would in any way, shape or form put you at risk or threaten your liberty. You have arguably just made a threat against my life, and the lives of people who believe as I do. What a representation of your Christ you are.
  
  Report this comment
- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 12:37pm
  @Sputnik
  
  Thank you for calling that to my attention. I try to include caveats like “many” or “plenty” when discussing people or groups of people. I did not do so in that post and I apologize for that. It was an oversight though, not a change in approach or a revelation of my ‘real’ view on Christians. I know plenty of Christians who I am grateful to have as friends, despite our religious disagreement.
  
  Again, thank you for pointing it out. I’ll be more careful in the future.
  
  Report this comment
- naughtycal
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 1:06pm
  chrisd,
  There’s fiscal conservativism then there’s ignorance. You shot right pass conservativism straight to ignorance. The founders knews that some government is necessary to ensure freedom and liberty…There for a tax system was necessary to fund the Defense of liberty……and that defense comes in many ways, CDC,USDA,AND MILITARY…I would say they are all necessary to protect citizens the rest of Government is nothing more than Unconstitutional fillers design to bloat government and there by bloat the support of more government.
  I also believe like Ron Paul that the military’s job isn’t to fight wars around the world by rather secure our borders and stand the walk ready to defend our natiuon with extreme prejudice anaginst enemy both foriegn and domestic. As for your atheism that’s your problem until deal with it when you die. But while your here why not think before both boast ultra fiscal conservtivist babble a nation with no defense isn’t a nation for long.
  
  Report this comment
- The_Cabrito_Goat
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 1:47pm
  Naughtycal is right. The disaster at Valley Forge had to do with the Articles of Confederation’s loose grip on national security. If the soldiers were to get supplies from the state, it was basically up to the mood of whoever lived in Pennsylvania or Maryland to give them rations. It wasn’t a military order, it was a request.
  
  That’s why confederations don’t work. Constitutional republics work.
  
  Report this comment
- Oneirishman
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 2:23pm
  @CHRISY
  Where do I identify my religious leanings in any of my posts, genius? Show me where your life was threatened? You truly are an idiot that has no problem assigning labels and assertions to fit your narratives. Inane Drone.
  
  Report this comment
- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 2:37pm
  @ONEIRISHMAN
  
  You said, “CHRISY
  You are the optimum idiot. And know that people like me will do everything to bring an end to you. By any means necessary, legal or not.”
  
  “Bring an end to you…” I’m fairly certain that that could be legally construed as a threat. More importantly, it made it reasonably assumable that you’re willing to employ violence against others who disagree with you.
  
  You did not out yourself with any particular religious leaning. But usually atheists don’t hate other atheists for being atheists, and I think it’s a safe bet that you hate atheists, which you’re perfectly within your rights and prerogative to do. Its that acting on it to the point of violence that you’re not within your rights or prerogative to do.
  
  I’m not a genius, but I have a decent handle on rather plausible deductive reasoning. You just won’t admit that I’m correct because you would be outing yourself as someone you don’t want people to believe you are: a thug who would gladly resort to violence against others.
  
  Report this comment
- Oneirishman
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 3:04pm
  CHRISY
  Your a coward. I have no violent history with Atheists or idiots. Thinking you are above the fray because you are a Voluntarist/Atheist is backwards. You are the problem. You have no building blocks for a society in your beliefs and are destine to fail. And anything I can do to contribute to that failure, I will do.
  
  Report this comment
- PaxInVeritate
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 3:20pm
  COFEMALE… I agreed with you up until you stated,
  “Those who are trying to suppress religious freedoms are Satan’s children.”
  Even the darkest of souls still belong to God and can return to Him while they are living. It may be painful but not impossible. There is a prayer that I wish for you to consider:
  Jesus to Mankind Litany Prayer (2) For the Grace of Immunity
  “O Heavenly Father Most High
  I love You.
  I honour You.
  Lord Have Mercy.
  Lord forgive us our trespasses.
  I adore You.
  I praise You.
  I give You thanks for all Your special Graces.
  I beg You for the Grace of Immunity for my beloved
  (name all those in a list for the salvation of souls)
  
  I offer You my loyalty at all times.
  You O Most Heavenly Father,
  Creator of all things,
  Creator of the Universe,
  Creator of humanity,
  You are the source of all things.
  You are the source of Love.
  You are Love.
  
  I love You.
  I honour You.
  I lay myself before You.
  I beg for Mercy for all souls who don’t know You,
  who don’t honour You,
  who reject Your Hand of Mercy.
  I give myself to You in mind, body and soul
  so that You can take them into Your Arms, safe from evil.
  I ask You to open the Gate of Paradise so that all Your children
  can unite, at last, in the inheritance you have created for all of us.”
  
  Report this comment
- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 3:21pm
  @ONEIRISHMAN
  
  It wouldn’t be a post from you without an insult, or more evidence that you really don’t know what you’re talking about.
  
  How do you quantify that I am a coward?
  
  Your (unverifiable) lack of a violent history with atheists or anyone does nothing to mitigate the tendency and preference you’ve displayed toward the advocation of violence in your posts.Ted Bundy had never murdered or raped until he did it the first time, but he had those tendencies in his character, beliefs and behavior. Had they been pointed out and addressed before his first criminal act, perhaps he would have never done any of those monstrous things. Of course we’ll never know.
  
  Funny, too to label me ‘the problem.’ I’m perplexed honestly… how is a person who does not advocate force or violence, who wishes for everyone to have and exercise total liberty (with respect for property rights and the non-aggression principle as the only boundaries), and who wishes to see an end to the hypocrisy of a society that grants a political body authority and power to commit what nearly all of us would consider to be crimes and immoral behavior be the ‘problem’?
  
  What do you know about the building blocks for a society based on my beliefs? I want a free society that isn’t based on debt, theft, lies, murder, aggression, violence, immorality and disrespect for property rights. The opposite of what I’d like to see is what we have now.
  
  So please… quantify your assertions.
  
  Report this comment
- Alessandre
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 3:26pm
  @ChrisDiamond: “I haven’t insulted you or anyone else, but Christians quickly release some pretty nasty vitriol against people who disagree with them.” That’s an insult against Christians like me who’ve never unleashed nasty vitriol against those w/ whom we disagree: And though some, “[f]olks like BodyBag even advocate [your] execution,” in my experience, such attitudes are rare among Christians. If you have evidence to the contrary, please provide it. Certainly, we all fail at times to be good examples of Christ but many, many Christians do try; we’re not the vicious people you seem to think we are.
  
  You ask why Jesus would die for us if we’re worthless. Do you think you must have value for God to love & die for you? If you already had value, why would you need His sacrifice? As humans, each of us is immeasurably valuable because we’re made in God’s image. But because of sin, next to God, we’re not much & not at all good. But God is love & gives what those He loves need. We needed God to become man & die to free us from our sins so that we could become like Him. So, in that sense, we’re all worthless until we accept God’s gift. Whether Christ died for you is your decision. He didn’t die for everyone, only those who accept Him. If I give 10 people $10 each & 3 refuse, my gift isn’t for them. Those who reject Christ will know one day they were stupid to do so & again, neither Christians nor God will decide, they who reject will.
  
  Report this comment
- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 3:50pm
  @ALLESANDRE
  
  Sputnik brought that to my attention, and I apologized/corrected myself. Typically, I include caveats like, “most, many, some” etc, but failed to in that comment.
  
  Any criticism or calling out of BodyBag has been specific to BodyBag, and IRISHMAN, but… I mean look at the verbiage of their posts. I have not attributed viciousness to every Christian. A scan of conversations in this same thread with others will demonstrate that, I’m sure.
  
  I wasn’t asking if Jesus would die for us if we’re worthless. I understand that, in the context of Christian theology, that all are sinners and utlimately undeserving of the gift of Grace. It was God’s immeasurable love for us that prompted Him to sacrifiice His son so that we might be reconciled to Him. But this is Christian theology and not mine. I would submit that you’re wrong about Christ not dying for everyone. Even under Christian theology, humans are free to choose that grace or not, but it doesn’t mean that Christ did not intend it for them as well.
  
  The rest of your post requires a response that goes off-topic, but suffice it to say, I’m confident in my understanding of the scriptures, of prophecy, of the plan of salvation, of the dispensations, and of the irony in a supreme being who would sacrifice his own son through torture and murder, and then condemn us to hell for eternity if we refused him… for living in sin that He created and allowed to be foisted upon us.
  
  Report this comment
- IronInfidel
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 4:07pm
  @stunnedirishman Your outrage and lame attempts at attacking Chris are quite funny ! It gets even better when your drooling tirade doesn’t shut him up like you hoped ! This really lights a fire under your arse and you let your zealotry get the best of you with threats to “end” him ! Awesome stuff !!! Keep the comedy coming douche bag !
  
  Report this comment
- Oneirishman
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 4:22pm
  CHRISY
  I guess I shouldn’t be insulted by your assertion that I am a cereal killer. After all you, never insult those with whom you disagree with. Funny how you associate Religion with Government, and all the evils of the world starting with America. You are a coward and a bigot. You join fringe groups that have no chance for success, just destruction. Libertarians are merely tomorrows terrorist. And you must be eliminated. No different then the OWS or any other nut job anti USA progressive POS.
  
  Report this comment
- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 4:32pm
  @IRONINFIDEL
  
  Poignant observation…
  
  @ONEIRISHMAN
  
  I have never heard of a cereal killer, though my sons can put away one of those huge bags of cereal in a heartbeat. “Dad, we killed that whole bag of cereal at breakfast.”
  
  =P
  
  I’m sorry everyone, but I am human and couldn’t resist.
  
  Will you please point out an insult I’ve levied here at someone I disagree with? Careful now… there is a difference between noting a plausible observation made about someone based on a post made by someone and an insult. You’re good at the insults.
  
  I didn’t say or even imply that evil started with America. Where in the world did that come from? Your argument lost a long time ago, but it’s really unraveling now.
  
  I am neither a coward or bigot, and certainly not just because you say so. You still refuse to quantify these assertions.
  
  What fringe groups have I joined?
  
  Your remark about Libertarians shows nothing but bias, misunderstanding, and clinging to misinformation. These are, by the way, all marks of someone who is extremely closed-minded.
  
  And there you go again… “You must be eliminated.” You might consider seeing a professional about these intense desires to “eliminate” people.
  
  Report this comment
- Locked
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 4:51pm
  Wow… these comments are interesting. I’d have to say, @Oneirishman, as a fellow Christian… you are OUT OF LINE. You’re getting overly aggressive and just ending up looking unhinged. @Chrisdiamond isn’t even goading you… he certainly isn’t sinking to the level of attacks you’ve descended to.
  
  Take a step back and ask yourself “Are my comments a good reflection of how a Christian should behave?” I think you’ll find the answer a resounding NO.
  
  @Chrisdiamond
  
  You’re just trolling him at this point. Granted you aren’t being as crass and emotional about it, but the bigger man knows when to step back and say “This isn’t productive.” I don’t care if you’re an atheist, a Christian, or a Jedi: if you’re not working to bring people together, you can’t realistically argue that you’re trying to act “good.” When winning the argument is more important than taking the high road to prove your point, it’s time to realize you need to bow out of the fight. That’s just my two cents.
  
  TL;DR: Play nice, you guys
  
  Report this comment
- God_Is_Not
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 5:49pm
  Really doesn’t matter who you agree with, Oneirishman lost this debate early on. When your responses simply resort to name calling then your argument has been exhausted.
  
  Report this comment
- BuzzardSays
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 6:11pm
  I must say to ChrisDiamond…I really dislike atheists because they are lovers of the argument and I have had puh-lenty with atheists that have proven to be worthless. Generally any discussion with any atheist results in a Christian man stumbling and falling to the pleasure of the atheist. The atheist has no restraint in his or her heart towards speaking the exact evil that exists therein. The atheists malignant arrogance results in twisting words and phrases and ideas all the while telling the Christian believer what a fool the atheist presumes the Christian to be based on the atheists requirement for physical evidence as proof for truth.
  
  Unfortunately the Christian finds himself at war with atheists and atheist groups who are unrestrained in using the legal system to bring about their desired outcome, which is absence of Christian symbology. An absence that is souly desired to enable a damping effect on the nagging conscience that exists in the atheist heart. The atheist conscience tells their skeptical mind that something unseen or unknown could be found to speak truth into a life relegated to meaninglessness. But the malignant atheistic narcicism requires evidence where evidence will never suffice. Spiritual truth is beyond the physical which could aid the atheist to know they are in error. But, pride prevents the pursuit of Jesus and truly I say without the search…a finding can not be had.
  
  Merry Christmas to you, none the less.
  
  Report this comment
- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:35pm
  @LOCKED and BUZZARDSAYS
  
  Points taken. Thank you for a deserved correction.
  
  Report this comment
- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 11, 2012 at 10:46am
  @BUZZARDSAYS
  
  I hope my display of thanks and respect for correction was well-received. But re-reading your post, I wanted to respond directly to you.
  
  I do love an argument, but what I hate is when people make baseless assertions and then refuse to quantify them. If you disagree with me, EXCELLENT. Let’s engage in discourse and share ideas/thoughts/opinions/knowledge (hopefully) for each other’s edification. This is how growth occurs and perspectives are broadedned. I enjoy and appreciate that. But when it’s done like ONEIRISHMAN, I will point out the fallacies and ask for substantiation, which, of course in this instance, I never got. The conversation was still useful though because it put a supposed believer on display as a hypocrite and a potentially violent person… at least a bad representative of Christ, and I feel Christians have a vested interest in addressing them. I will, if they won’t.
  
  What evil did I speak? What proof of God did I ask for? Where have I advocated using the legal system (in fact, I’ve called for it’s dissolution)? Have I asked for the removal of Christian symbology anywhere away from places I’m stolen from to help fund? How do you justify speaking for my conscience? How are the morals and ethics I espouse and have spoken of evil, malignant, arrogant or representative of a lack of conscience? How have I been narcissistic?
  
  You make a TON of assumptions/assertions about atheists, and I would appreciate you quantifying them.
  
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capitalismrocks
Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:12am
If Atheists would stop attacking Christmas, and Religion, stop turning the TRUE meaning of Separation of Church and State which means Government should not interfere in the matter of Religion, but they try to make it that Religion doesn’t belong in the public place… maybe if Atheists will stop with their insulting billboards saying there is no God or Heaven…

Maybe if Atheists simply sent out Happy Winter Solstice and posted Billboards with the same, and stopped trying to block religion from public squares which is a direct violation of the 1st Amendment then perhaps people would stop attacking Atheists…

Stop attacking religion and you’ll stop being attacked.

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- DeavonReye
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:24am
  Is religion so worried about criticism that they would kill to silence dissenters? If a world view has credibility, shouldn’t it be able to stand on its own and easily answer any questions raised against it? Why do some religions “fight their own god’s battle”, usually with violence, when [if that god is true] it SHOULD stand up for itself?
  
  This is the problem with humanity. Too many people believe they “have all the answers” and will literally HATE those who merely don’t see any reason TO believe their claims. Islam is the biggest offender. I’m glad I live in a country that is mostly christian. All I have to put up with are baseless name calling and empty afterlife threats. But, I can still be friends with them without fear of physical death.
  
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- UnknownUser1
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:26am
  Yeah they ones Ive talked to blame all our problems on whites and Christianity, they always point to Christianity first.
  They say its ok to remove the Ten Commandments from schools and such because we can be civil without religion but won’t acknowledge what our laws are based on, and don’t believe in “good” and “bad” I guess Hitler was “ok” then, in that view…..
  I guess thinking they descended from a mudskipper gives them a warm cozy feeling inside and inspires them to do great things in the world? Good luck with that
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:26am
  With respect to religion in public areas and whatnot, my only contention is this: I am stolen from to fund that place just like you, therefore, I have as much right to not have your religion inflicted on me there as you have to not have my atheism inflicted on you. I have no such right to complain about such activity in your home, your church, your yard, your car, a store etc… but in places I am robbed from to pay for, I have just as much say as you do.
  
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- SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:51am
  @ DEVON…God day friend been a lttle while for me on the comment section. I agree with you that any world view that is based in reality and truth should be able to reasonably explain much (not all) of life’s basic questions, including problems and solutions. Of course, true Christians (there are many that are nominal only, but are not redeemed), are not threatened by questins or criticisms. Jesus said we are not greater than him and if the world hated him it will hate us the more we resemble him in character and behavior. We are to love those who persecute us and pray for those who would do harm to us. My goal has never and will never be to force anyone to adhere or listen to my beliefs f they choose not to, but only to espouse what I know to be the only worldview that addresses the human cndition and solution. Thank you my friend.
  
  @ Chris….I see your point and agree with you to a point. The problem I see with that line of reasoning however, is that argument actually goes too far in my opinion. Not everyone who pays taxes will agree with how those taxes are used in education, wellfare, healthcare etc etc. I personally am no more offended by other Religions expressions on ther holidays than a man in the moon. I guess I am at a loss why so many nonbelievers even care, unless they want to silence the religious message beng conveyed from reaching others? I think the point is the greater battle surrounds worldviews which effects life in all facets. Thank you….
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 11:11am
  @SleezyHippos
  
  Awesome screen name. =)
  
  You are absolutely correct: there is no way everyone will agree on how their taxes are spent. We elect conservatives who pledge to not raise taxes, and then do (as Bush Sr did, and now Boehner is contemplating), and we know the left is always going to spend more than they take in to ‘necessitate’ higher taxes on people. I happen to believe that there isn’t a single service offered by government (funded out of money extracted from us at gun point), that could not be provided by the free market. At least then we’d have a choice, and would not be stealing from others to fund things we supported but they didn’t. Taxation is theft, and the power to tax is the power to destroy. Not my words, but as true as any ever spoken.
  
  How would not putting religious themed messages in publicly funded places prevent religious messages from being conveyed to others? I’m not saying church’s should take down their billboards, their signs, their advertisements, their listings in the yellow pages, their websites, their radio broadcasts, their televised sermons, or any other private means of sharing their message, and I NEVER WOULD. I do not want to pay for the promotion of a religious message, or the place that’s done. I think you’re placing too much importance on publicly funded areas to the propagation of the religious message, and not giving adequate consideration to the power of the methods being used in a private manner.
  
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- SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 12:05pm
  @ CHRIS…Thanks for your fair and balanced reply. I think we stand on very common ground with the topic of taxes. Perhaps I did not convey my thoughts on the public display of religious themes adequately because I was running out of room on the post. I am not saying that a religiously themed display here or there has any great impact one way or another, but was referring to the greater ongoing struggle and war between competing worldviews and their unending battle for dominance among the populace. Let me give an exmaple (this may be a bit controversial but I think demonstartes my point). I remember when I was very young homosexuals were just starting to “come out” and they were espousng the message they just wanted to be left alone, not harmed, or belittled, and that it was their business what they did in the privacy of their bedrooms. Fastforward to 2012 and the message has evolved into quite a different one at this point with the attempt to redefne traditional marriage. In the same way, worldviews NEVER seek to simply coexist. They ALWAYS seek supremacy. Therefore, it is my contention that the push back aganst religious public displays (among other thngs) in the beginning will eventually lead into intolerance even on private property in the future. Not by you personally, but by many who hold to that worldview and continue to want to gain more and more dominance over competing worldviews. After all, that is how power and impleentatin is obtained. Thank you…
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 12:46pm
  @Hippo
  
  You have valid concerns, and I certainly see where you are coming from. There is abundant evidence in political history to support your points.
  
  This is partially why I espouse the views I do regarding the government: you and I and most everyone in society, whether religious, atheist, agnostic or whatever, would agree that theft is wrong, that murder is wrong, that violence and aggression are wrong, that the deprivation of liberty or property is wrong… but as a society, we hypoctrically grant a political body the power and authority to do these things in our name. Without government, where would the religious, the atheist, the homosexual, the environmentalist, the bleeding heart, the corporation etc go to obtain special treatment over other people? There would be no entity by which they could obtain special treatment, protections, or benefit from the force of law to force you or me to ‘accept’ their way as the “law of the land.” Laws are merely words with guns. Protection is only a right so far in that I believe no one has the right to aggress against others, thus protection becomes a personal responsibility. But if we would just realize and unioversalize non-aggression, I believe many of these problems would work themselves out without theft, aggression or violence.
  
  Thank you for being such a kind, thoughful and engaging person!
  
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- SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 1:01pm
  @ CHRIS….Thank you for your comment. I very very much agree with you. Often governments, our own included, do exactly the things you listed, truly sad and discouraging. I also agree that self-governance is the key to a successful society. Once that is loss then government in one form or another steps in and, by compulsion, forces compliance to its whims and dictates. Even in our system of government with checks and balances, things are manipulated and loopholes found to get around those checks and balances because many of the people in positions of authority are not self-governing people of integrity. They are not there to serve others they are there to serve themselves. Corruption is rampant and what started as a noble pursuit of governance has become a twisted shadow of its former self. The decline of good and honest leadershp is sad and I fear a reflection of our society as a whole. I truly grieve over this. Thank you for your kind words, I too enjoy your comments and believe we can find much common ground despite our different beliefs. Thank you…
  
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tadroid
Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:53am
Perhaps, but most of the countries killing those of other belief systems are Islamic . . . . the favorite “religion” of the American Left.

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- The_Cabrito_Goat
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 1:53pm
  Europe has not much time left.
  
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OBAMANATIONOFDESOLATION
Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:49am
The Supreme Court has said a religion need not be based on a belief in the existence of a supreme being. In the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins, the court described “secular humanism” as a religion.

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2005/08/31895/#XFYDqAY7ZkhpfJRi.99

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Just_Us2
Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:44am
If equality is something to be grasped, then we should cheer the persecution of atheists. There are a lot of deaths that have to take place for them to catch up to the rest of the religious world. I would say the quickest way to achieve your goal of equality is a mass suicide. It’s not like you aren’t going to die anyway, you may as well do it fighting for your non-belief. Leave a note behind, we will make sure it gets read on MSNBC.

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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:52am
  That’s real Christian of you.
  
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- YouCantExplainThat
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:57am
  I’ll just sink to your level and say the world would be a much better place without people thinking the way you do.
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:58am
  Mass suicide? Are you actually serious?
  
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- BODYBAG
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:17am
  @JUST_US2
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:44am
  If equality is something to be grasped, then we should cheer the persecution of atheists.
  —————————-
  Right on. Welcome to the real world atheists, non-believers, and secular humanists.
  I am delighted to hear that you are REQUIRED to have some skin in the game.
  Best of luck to you since thats all you believe in anyway.
  
  Report this comment
- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:33am
  Bodybag, you’ve already exposed yourself as someone who suffers from sociopathy/psycopathy… who advocates the use of violence against others who disagree with you, to the point of murder (“Both of you deserve a bullet behind the ear.”) So understand that, to many of us who employ reason and who have a moral basis in empathy and self-ownership, your comments are worthless, or at least seen as little more than the verbalizations of an evil person who would kill us, or advocate us being killed for simply disagreeing with him.
  
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- athiest-infedel
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:56am
  You are so right, just read you bible and see all of murder, rape, slavery that is in your bible and all justified and endorsed by god. I read my bible, that is why I’m an athiest.
  
  Just_Us2
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:44am
  If equality is something to be grasped, then we should cheer the persecution of atheists. There are a lot of deaths that have to take place for them to catch up to the rest of the religious world. I would say the quickest way to achieve your goal of equality is a mass suicide. It’s not like you aren’t going to die anyway, you may as well do it fighting for your non-belief. Leave a note behind, we will make sure it gets read on MSNBC.
  Report Post »
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:58am
  True Chris. It is no different than the radical Jihadist. Just a different god, in such a case as this.
  
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ChrisDiamond
Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:35am
The plain fact is that the two most destructive and deadly institutions in the history of humankind are religion and the state. I place no faith in either, and strongly denounce both. David was a war-mongering murderer doing ‘God’s’ work for the Hebrews, Muhammed was a swash-buckling murderer for Islam (and inspired a bunch of other murderers for Allah). Pope Urban II proclaimed that all sins committed during the Crusades would be abolished and motivated hundreds of thousands of Christians to go fight and kill Muslims, after appeal from emperor Alexis for help. He needed to reclaim lost tax farms, and the Catholic church could gain more… converts… and tithes… The Spanish inquisition… These are just some examples. Professor RJ Rummel from the University of Hawaii wrote a book published in 1994 titled, “Death By Government,” and claims that government killed 160+ million civilians in the 20th century. When you add the death of military combatants, that total balloons to over 203 million… and there were still 6 years left in the century.

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- DougHuffman
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:48am
  Bwahahaha! Three thousand years of ontology turned on its head (almost) by a twenty-something anti-intellectual know-nothing.
  
  Good people ought to be armed as they will, with wits and Guns and the Truth. God Bless Bitter Clingers, damn progressives.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:53am
  Doug, please, by all means… substantiate your assertions. You even used a big word like ontology, so I would expect that you would be ready to provide some type of empirical subtantiation for your insult to me and my know-nothingness… and oh… to be a 20-something again…
  
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- YouCantExplainThat
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:59am
  @DougHuffman
  
  How is that so?
  
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- MrSunshine
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:01am
  Doug, by all means let us abolish religion AND the state ASAP! Then we can all enjoy….hmmmmmmmmm, what’s left now?
  
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- Kalidor835
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:02am
  Most of the deaths pointed to in the 20th century were the results of orders carried out under atheists such as Stalin, Mao, and Hitler. Those three men alone gave the order to kill or through their actions in invading other countries are responsible for the deaths of well in excess of 100 million people and that is being conservative. The true number probably reaches nearer to 200 million. Stalin alone starved 50-60 million people to death in the Ukraine when he ordered the Red Army to take all of their grain. All three were also socialist dictators in some form with two being communist and one being a fascist as well.
  
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- DougHuffman
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:06am
  @Chris Can’tExplainShiite, I owe you nothing. There is no commitment to concord here. FOAD.
  
  Good people ought to be armed as they will, with wits and Guns and the Truth. God Bless Bitter Clingers, damn progressives.
  
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- MrSunshine
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:09am
  Oops, sorry Doug. I was responding to Chris.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:14am
  KALIDOR
  
  No argument with that. These men were devout statists, and their efforts to bring about what they claimed was a revolution for social benefit was murderous on an incomprehensible scale. Islam is still a murderous religion, and one could argue that Christianity has rekindled it’s murderous tendencies, what with the notion of pre-emptive war, and of our rampant collateral damage in our war efforts. We have political leaders stating that the death of 1.5 million Iraqi women and children due to our sanctions was ‘worth it,’ and that was done by a nation that proclaims itself to be Christian: the United States of America. That same Christian nation killed 3 million plus Vietnamese in it’s efforts to contain communism (under the false pretense of the Gulf of Tonkin incident that never happened). We can’t play like Christianity does not have a hand in our foreign affairs, and is thus complicit in our murders and war mongering overseas.
  
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- DougHuffman
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:19am
  Learn what is adhockery.
  
  Make your point effectively – as I have clearly done – and be gone. Explaining and shoring it up descends to the fallacy of narration.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:22am
  @Doug
  
  No, you don’t owe me or anyone anything. It just might do you well to provide some kind of justification for your dismissal, if you desire any kind of credibility in the discussion.
  
  @MrSunshine
  
  What could we enjoy? Oh I dunno… Maybe peace…? I mean people generally do not want war, and in our every day lives we try iand live in such a way as to avoid unnecessary conflict, but the state thrives on it, and then sends our men and women off to kill others and be killed for aims that have nothing to do with buzz umbrellas like ‘national security’. Maybe we could enjoy the lack of coercion from an entity with a monopoly on the use of force? Maybe we could quit having our money stolen from us in exchange for lies? Maybe we could quit providing for ourselves today on the backs of the unborn? Maybe we could reevaluate how to organize our society and do so without basing it on cages, theft, murder, the tyranny of the majority, and the imposition of violence…? Maybe we could even reevaluate our moral hypocrisy: why we decide to grant a body powers and authority to commit crimes and engage in behavior that we all agree are criminal and immoral if we act in those manners against other individuals? What’s so wrong with that?
  
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- cessna152
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:40am
  Chris, kalodor is correct. Now lets straighten out a bit more. First off the USA government has sent troops to war. Were these troops in war killing in the name of God or protecting those in other countries from evil dictators? I think you know the answer. Also, your reference to king David has some merit, however there are a few situations to consider. If David did not attack or protect himself they would have been overtaken regardless as their enemies are evil and planned to Anilate the Israelites regardless. Second, do you know what the definition of murder is? The killing of an innocent person or people. Would you consider self defense as murder? No, I hope not. Another point is Christians and Jews are the most persecuted group in the history of the world. Yet no government will protect them…why? Another point is the crusades. The Muslims were slaughtering Christians and anialating them to no end. That’s when they asked for help and now history has been changed to look as if the Christians were the guilty party.
  
  Statism and those crazy god hating leaders have killed more people in the history of man kind than all other groups in the world. Do the research and stop listening to the media and far left schools. Are there some crazy Christians? Yes of course but no where near the magnitude of which you or the msm speak of. If you were to seek shelter during rough times would it be at a Muslims house a statist or true Christian?
  
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- YouCantExplainThat
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:45am
  @DougHuffman
  
  Sure thing.
  
  It is nice to know anyone read this will not be convinced by your arguments or your tone.
  
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- Marine25
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:48am
  Doug Huffman is either too stupid or too cowardly to address anyone who calls him out.
  I won’t bother explaining since it only descends to the fallacy of narration.
  
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- SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 11:00am
  @ CHRS….Religion has been quite damaging thorughout human history and been used by evil men to harm and abuse people. “Religion” has also done some good things just as is the case with the State. There is no such thing as a perfect institution in this life because all of them simply consist of people, sinful people. There is only one place a person can find true freedom and peace even in this world and that is with a sincere and personal walk with Jesus Christ. Not trying to be preachy, trust me I know that doesn’t work because I was where you and many other atheists are currently, just trying to enter into the discussion with what I believe is the only real solution to this life and all its hurts and dfficuties. Thank you…
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 11:02am
  @Cessna
  
  Thank you for a polite and well-articulated response.
  
  Self-defense is not murder. In fact, I believe that self-defense is the only justifiable use of violence. But it’s hard to call it self-defense when you send men/women to kill people who pose no direct threat to you. The attack on Pearl Harbor justified an attack in defense, but we went a lil far, dontcha think? People claim if we didn’t fight in WW2, that Hitler would have attempted to bring the Nazis to attack America, but he screwed himself by marching into Russia (never get involved in a land war in Asia). It is silly of people to cling to the belief that we would not have handed the Nazi Army/Navy/Air Force it’s collective behind before they landed on US soil.
  
  David’s hands were so bloody, God wouldn’t allow him to build the temple. He was an adulterous, deceitful killer. He repented, sure, but the facts remain.
  
  Hard to substantiate that Christians are amongst the most persecuted people in the world. The Holy Roman Empire kind of quells that notion. Even Mao and Stalin killed everyone, not just people who professed Christ or Jehovah.
  
  The Moslem Turks halted the Christian pilgrimages to Jerusalem, and did start attacking and killing Christians. But these pilgrimages continued w/o incident for 450 years after Muslims took control of Jerusalem. Read the history, indeed.
  
  I don’t study leftists. I learned enough to know they were wrong. But leftists practice religiosity, too.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 11:46am
  @SleazyHippos
  
  Still liking that screen name. LoL.
  
  I agree with you that religion has done some great things, but I disagree that the State has done many great things. You’re correct about the presence of immoral or ‘sinful’ people, and this aspect of the human condition is precisel why we should not have a state, or government body that has a monopoly on the use of force. Not all sociopaths/psychopaths go out and physically murder people, but they desire to exert control over and to exploit people for their own purposes… like our politicians do. The political sociopaths even have access to the most powerful military force in the world to impose their will no peoples the world over. Pretty sweet gig for the megalomaniacal authoritarians who seek office: not only do they get to steal, kill and destroy, they get to make those crimes and immoral behaviors legal with a mere vote.
  
  Ghandi said, “I like your Christ, but I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.” If Christian find peace through a walk with Christ, then more power to them. Seriously. I just wish more of them advocated peace for everyone else as well. Far too many Christians in our country like war mongering under the guise of American exceptionalism and the promotion of ‘freedom’ and Christian values. No thanks. I’ll take the peace and ‘live and let live’ parts, gladly, and will wish you likewise… but please leave behind the desire/justification for war and killing.
  
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- sputnik
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 12:47pm
  @Chris
  
  You are having the same issues as in other posts… you are lumping religion in with the state when it suits your argument, then taking out atheism when when someone brings up the atheist socialist states of the 20th century. You have a double standard here.
  
  IMHO neither religion or atheism were involved in the violence of the past; but statists, theocrats, ect, use propaganda in whatever form works with a populace to perpetuate crimes against humanity. Just like guns dont kill people; religion and atheism do not kill people.
  
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- SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 12:48pm
  @ CHRIS…thanks again for your time and response. I think our conversaton would be wel served to mre accurately defne what you mean by “state” and what I meant in my response. was referrng to any natinal governing body. And while often oppressive and power hungry there have been some benefcal r benevolent things done by governments/kings from ancient times to the present. Perhaps not consistently, but nonetheless you understand what I meant (nt a major point either way).
  
  I agree with you that many who call themselves chrstians are not very attractive people (and maybe not christian at all, many are deceived and full of religious pride). I know I have been a poor representative of Chrst over the years because of the pride and self-love in my heart (we all have it to one measure or another). Of course, that is why I need the salvation that he offers because I am such a wicked person in and of myself, chosing to love myself over others much of the time. But he is changing me to become more self-denying (not arrived by any means just progressing some). While I do believe there is such a thng as a just war (ie the NAZIs) I agree with you that our nation and its leaders have lost ther way and we have done much harm around the world. However, I dont know if we can blame “christians” for the war mongering to spread christian beliefs though. I believe you asked not to be stereotyped in a previoous post regarding atheism. “You really shouldn’t stereotype.” Thank
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 12:52pm
  Sputnik, that is true. People gravitate to where the power is. Often, that power is at the expense of those subjugated. To get the masses to do your bidding, . . . and removing those in the way, . . . has been an unfortunately common theme in human history. Religion? No Religion? Makes no difference. Some just had more power and more masses to control.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 1:06pm
  @Sputnik
  
  In my original post, I was careful to note both religion and statism. I then discussed Emperor Alexis’ appeal to Pope Urban II, the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Muslim conquest, David’s murder and killing… and I also listed Mao and Stalin as atheists who were devout statists. Powerful government officials have often employed religion to achieve the public buy-in they needed for their agendas: Constantine called together the council of Nicea to quell the discord in the empire brought about by in-fighting (arguing etc) amongst the sects of Christianity. Alexis used Pope Urban II to amass a Christian army motivated by a religious calling so he could reclaim his tax farms (which backfired on him in the end, but I digress), and historical evidence shows Hitler was close to the Vatican. I do not believe I have employed a double standard here. I acknowledge the atheists Mao, Stalin and others and attribute their crimes against humanity to their insanity and devout statism.
  
  To state that neither religion nor statism were not involved with violence of the past is to ignore history. There is no real correlation to ‘guns don’t kill people’ in this context. In the case of the Crusades, the Muslim conquest, and the inquisition, religion was the primary motivator for people to kill. I’ve heard it argued that America was just to murder to ‘godless’ native Americans during manifest destiny.
  
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- SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 1:28pm
  @ CHRIS…I sympathize with your points and agree religion has often been used by evil men to manipulate, oppress, and control people. I often tell folks that Jesus had some of his sharpest and harshest rebukes for “religious people and leaders” because they used their position to harm others and maintain dominance over them. No doubt the inquisition and crusades were both terrible and quite religiously motivated. However, I do not believe that we can judge the teachings of Christ based upon those events as supportive or representative. We know many false teachers, leaders, and “christs” will come to lead many astray because it was predicted. So we shouldn’t be surprised when it happens. Don’t forget that intially Hitler used religious (be it strange as it was) ideas to gain support for his agendas among the German people even getting many “churches” to replace the cross of Christ with his new cross. These are the times that the real church and those who only give lip service to Christ are winowed out and shown to be genune or false. Thank you….
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 2:18pm
  @SleazyHippos
  
  Excellent post. I don’t demonize the teachings of Christ, or try not to anyway. If anything, like Ghandi, I admire Christ. Truly. He was the embodiment of peace and non-aggression, though he preached that he came not to unite, but to divide (paraphrasing). He aggressed against no one, rebuked violence and aggression, rebuked hypocrisy, and though he condemned harlotry and other immoral behaviors, he forgave, and made no effort to remove someone’s liberty (as it were) to behave in manners he found detestable. These are fantastically admirable personal qualities, and as you alluded to, too often qualities not embodied or espoused by people who profess to be believers in Him.
  
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Dano.50
Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:35am
Could be wrong but, I’m betting it’s mostly Islamic countries killing atheists.

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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:51am
  I would wager you are correct. I don’t hear too much about people killing atheists in America, Canada, South America etc simply because they are atheists.
  
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- YouCantExplainThat
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:00am
  Good thing we don’t live in a country based on any faiths!
  
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- The_Cabrito_Goat
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 1:50pm
  Actually, America is one of the most Christian countrys on Earth, so I don’t get what you are saying, youcantexplainthat. In fact, I think your name is rather appropriate.
  
  Are all religions different? Yes. Do some have greater tolerance for apostates and atheists? Yes.
  
  Even in the old testament, the Jews were told not to meddle with
  
  Exodus 22:21: “Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.”
  
  http://bible.cc/exodus/22-21.htm
  
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hillbillyinny
Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:34am
Welcome to the “world” of Shiria! Such a “religion” of “peace”. . .

That why many of us are praying for TRUTH for those who would persecute any who do not believe as they believe. Even Jesus did not run after the numbers who left when he explain that His Body and Blood were real eat and drink (see John chapter 6). He let them make the choice for themselves, but he would have preferred they understood and stayed and shared in His Kingdom.

Our world is becoming more and more dangerous! Those of us who have “ears” and “eyes” need to be real martyrs, by giving up our “life” to share the message of God or as we stand for the message of God.

May many come to the understanding of Salvation through Jesus sacrifice.

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DougHuffman
Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:33am
If they will not stand for, and die for, their Culture, Country, or Creator, then of what use are they? Cannon fodder is a fine Darwinian tool.

Good people ought to be armed as they will, with wits and Guns and the Truth. God Bless Bitter Clingers, damn progressives.

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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 3:58pm
  Wow, Doug. Your post is rife with the archaic notions of tribalism, which is the root structure of racism and other types of bigotry. “Our tribe is better because…” when in fact, there is little to support the notion that any human being is better than another for any reason. Taller? Different color? Thinner? Fatter? More muscular? Punier? Sure… but better? No.
  
  With your rant about onotology and unwillingness to quantify your assertions (out of disdain for narrative), I almost expected better. Almost.
  
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sandrunner
Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:29am
Maybe it is out of fear of atheist?

It wasn’t so long ago (2000 years) Roman atheist killed thousand of Christians, because the atheist did not like the guilt trip of their day to day of sin. So the best way to get rid of guilt is to murder Christians. So the atheist can sin all they want.

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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:42am
  “Maybe it is out of fear of atheist?
  
  It wasn’t so long ago (2000 years) Roman atheist killed thousand of Christians, because the atheist did not like the guilt trip of their day to day of sin. So the best way to get rid of guilt is to murder Christians. So the atheist can sin all they want.”
  
  Is this supposed to be a justification, or excuse? An explanation? Surely you see how it is a piss poor version of any of these. First, the Romans were not atheists. They simply were not Christians. A Hindu is not an atheist, just as a Muslim, Jew or Christian is not an atheist.
  
  And I still laugh at Christians’ assumptions that atheists hate Christians because Christians somehow make us feel guilty. What a joke! That this ‘guilt’ keeps us from sinning…? Let me break it down for you as simply as I possibly can: sin is a disease that no one has invented so that some people can sell cures that no one needs.
  
  And for another small point: you’re an atheist, too… when it comes to Allah, to Shiva, to Zeus, to Horus… atheists just go one imaginary God further.
  
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- JP4JOY
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:47am
  Sorry, Romans were poly-theists with the Emperor elevated to a godly position.
  
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- Kalidor835
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:49am
  The Romans weren’t atheist they were Pagans. Atheists believe in no God at all while Pagans believe in other Gods or personified natural forces. While the Roman killing of Christians was wrong it wasn’t atheistic. Joseph Stalin on the other hand is a prime example of a mass murdering secular socialist/communist dictator atheist.
  
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- YouCantExplainThat
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:02am
  Ehhh… ever heard of the Roman gods? You know Mercury, Venus, Jupiter, etc?
  
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RaydocX
Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:28am
If the atheists and ‘skeptics’ act like they are acting in America in less civilized or tolerant societies, it is no wonder they are being ‘persecuted.’

in fact, if they are living in intolerant societies, no atheist need be persecuted, unless they count as persecution playing along.

here, in America, they want to deny others the right to as a group celebrate. And yes, ‘as a group’ includes displays on public property and even paid for with (gasp) public money (and which does NOT indicate a ‘state sponsored religion’, merely state recognition of the primary religionS)…

when the Atheist groups here stop trying to erase all mention of God and halt their attack on faith, THEN I will be able to redirect some of my focus onto what is befalling those too stupid to mime their faithful brethren in the nations where worshiping God is NOT a choice, but a mandate.

Until that time, i will not place any faith in these claims… seems fair enough, eh?

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- God_Is_Not
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:38am
  So you’ll only stand up for what is right if it is convenient for you?
  
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- Kalidor835
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:08am
  I’m not going to put much faith in that article either where it comes to the western world. I always find it amusing when some group puts out a report claiming wide spread bias against itself with no proof to back it up. In Muslim countries I can see the possibility of it but in the US I find it laughable. Every time you turn on the news you find an atheist group winning a law suit against some Christian or Jewish tradition. To say that the US government is biased against them is a joke.
  
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- Kalidor835
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:17am
  Anyone else find the timing of this report suspect as well? Is it a coincidence that it was released during one of the most holy times of the year for both Christians and Jews?
  
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- themachinist239
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 4:00pm
  The ramping up of “war on christmas” coverage by right-leaning news outlets during Holiday the season? You don’t say. The left manipulates it’s audience, as does the right. I enjoyed your moment of coming to realize this.
  
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- themachinist239
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 4:31pm
  “here, in America, they want to deny others the right to as a group celebrate.” —So atheists are barging into where these groups meet (Government buildings) and demanding they cease all celebration? How awful for those atheists to come into YOUR house of worship and demand you stop your activities…except…..you guys don’t meet at government buildings to worship, you have churches for that as well as the freedom to practice your religion anywhere in public. Pray in a government building and nobody will stop you.
  
  “…and even paid for with (gasp) public money (and which does NOT indicate a ‘state sponsored religion’, merely state recognition of the primary religionS)…”
  
  Let’s look at this statement for a moment. You believe that the government should be paying tax dollars to construct a religious symbol on government property, which is DIRECT government sponsorship of a religion (it doesn’t matter if it’s the “main” one/ones). Do you know what that word “sponsorship” means? It means using taxpayer money.
  
  You try to contort your way into justifying state sponsorship of your religion and have no concern for contradicting yourself.
  
  “when the Atheist groups here stop trying to erase all mention of God and halt their attack on faith” ——Again if the mention of God or faith is coming from a state entity, then a lot of people feel uncomfortable with their tax dollars being used for this purpose.
  
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M40-A1
Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:26am
But they do believe in a religion, the religion of environmentalism and government. And as long as you bend a knee to their deity you are accepted. If you disagree, well then you get Obama’s NWO.

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- barber2
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:34am
  Agree. With the Chicago radical Democrats: once they have “changed” America, you had better jump on their bandwagon. Big Brother does not like ” ideological ” diversity !
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:49am
  What “deity” does an atheist have?
  
  Check the definition of “religion” before making assertions like this.
  
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- OBAMANATIONOFDESOLATION
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:51am
  The Supreme Court has said a religion need not be based on a belief in the existence of a supreme being. In the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins, the court described “secular humanism” as a religion.
  
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- YouCantExplainThat
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:02am
  Praise Obama! Our Lord and Savior!
  
  and Thor too, I don’t see any ice giants do you?
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:04am
  I asked what “deity” is believed.
  
  Report this comment
- Locked
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 1:08pm
  @Obamanation
  
  “The Supreme Court has said a religion need not be based on a belief in the existence of a supreme being. In the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins, the court described “secular humanism” as a religion.”
  
  Actually, the quote you’re referring to from Justice Black: “Among the religions in this country which do not teach what would generally be considered a belief in the existence of God are Buddhism, Taoism, Ethical Culture, Secular Humanism, and others.” was said obiter dictum. As such it was the personal opinion of that particular justice, but does not reflect the view of the court and holds no legal force at all.
  
  Just an FYI, so you don’t make the mistake in the future and look silly when it’s pointed out :-)
  
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thibx
Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:24am
believe what you want to. don’t tread on me because i do. if you don’t believe fine how can you talk about something you say is not real. get real.

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- DeavonReye
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:30am
  Do you make comments about “the evils of Islam”? Why? Allah isn’t real.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:37am
  DEAVONREYE For the WIN!
  
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TIME_2_END_THE_PAUL_CAMPAIGN_IN_12
Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:10am
Maybe there ‘ought to be a global DADT for gays and atheists. There should be no need to identify yourself and justify your limited existence or sinful choices. We (true believers) don’t necessarily agree with your choice… but live and let live (for now) … for God will cull the herd in the end.

As for murdering atheists and gays… that just isn’t right. They’re committing suicide anyways, so let his judgment be the final one.

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- davecorkery
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:17am
  Before you get all gleeful, realize this: These murderers are only starting with atheists. You are next. God culls nothing, since he is imaginary. These fanatics are doing the culling, under “his” name. Wake up, fool.
  
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- God_Is_Not
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:23am
  Your god sounds like an unjust tyrant. Thankfully you have absolutely no evidence for your claim.
  
  Report this comment
- qpwillie
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:31am
  @davecorkery
  You’re absolutely right. There was nothing and one day ….. wait, there was no such thing as a day (In fact, there was no time.). Anyway, this singularity which was located nowhere (Since there wasn’t anywhere.) and exploded into this infinite nothingness (Not even empty space). The final result of that explosion was (purely by accident, mind you) a beautiful, perfectly working universe which was caused by absolutely nothing.
  
  Yeah, that makes all kinds of sense. Man, I wish I were as smart as you!!!!
  
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- Just_Us2
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:35am
  Atheist cull themselves via drug addiction, diseases like AIDS or suicide. If they have an issue with being killed for their lack of faith in other countries, by all means, go and protest. Christians have been murdered for thousands of year for their faith. Since we are all on the equality bandwagon, I lift my glass to those atheists who make the ultimate sacrifice for the cause of having no cause. May they die well.
  
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- barber2
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:36am
  “God is Not”: Gee, I wonder why you chose to call yourself that.
  
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- TIME_2_END_THE_PAUL_CAMPAIGN_IN_12
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:42am
  Happy Festivus boys. Now that you’ve aired some grievances, I’ll be waiting for the feats of strength.
  
  Or should I wish you a Merry Solstice? Can’t keep up with the jargon. I’m saying live and let live… the “Man” will be the decider okay, I’m just trying to be a “uniter” here…. lol.
  
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- ltb
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:42am
  Atheists are being persecuted around the world? Give me a break. Reviled for being obnoxious about forcing their nihilistic beliefs on everyone else? Maybe. Persecuted? Whatever.
  
  This study is just another example of why you should always look at the agenda of the people behind a study before reaching any conclusions. Does anyone really think Humanists are going to publish a study that hasn’t been manipulated to show they are victims? I’m sure these people decided to propagate the lie that they are being persecuted and figured the best way to do this was by gathering data from Islamic countries. Here’s a newsflash: Everyone who isn’t a Muslim in an Islamic nation is persecuted. These people are commanded to slice the heads off all infidels who refuse to worship their demon god, allah. To Muslims, infidels include atheists, Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, etc., etc., etc.
  
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- YouCantExplainThat
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:05am
  @all responders under TIME_2_End
  
  Can we not at least praise Time_2_End for saying that killing is wrong? I will. Good for you.
  
  Killing anyone for their beliefs is wrong (among many other reasons).
  
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- TIME_2_END_THE_PAUL_CAMPAIGN_IN_12
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:42am
  YOUCAN’T wrote… “Can we not at least praise Time_2_End for saying that killing is wrong? I will. Good for you.”
  
  TY. In this instance yes (it’s NOT justifiable or rational)…. in other instances I have to say I have no problem with killing or crushing thine enemies…
  
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liltexasgal
Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:08am
People shouldn’t be killed for their ideas

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- Lord_Frostwind
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:18am
  Agreed, I might find a lot of Atheists (especially the ones that peruse this website) to be insufferable, but I would never let someone get away with murdering them for the beliefs. I’ll stand against them on just about every front imaginable, but they have the same protection that I do to believe what they want. And I would expect the same courtesy to be returned if the tables are turned.
  
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- toiletclogga
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:19am
  People shouldn’t declare victim status every time somebody says something they don’t like!
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 11:59am
  @LORDFROSTWIND
  
  Thank you very kindly for that. Count this atheist in as someone who would also defend your right to believem, worship, attend church, praise, tithe… the whole gamut.
  
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Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:06am
“It is important to note that the IHEU is a secular hub for more than 120 atheist, agnostic, humanist and other related organizations in 40 countries. Considering the group’s scope — to advance the cause of non-belief — there is clearly a bias in the preparation and publication of the report.”

This portion of the article says all that is needed, talk about bias from the very beginning. I wonder how much Obama is paying this group to also support his agenda against Christianity here in the states?

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- barber2
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:17am
  Or wonder if this group made contribution to the Democrat campaign fund or its many aligned groups.
  
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- ozchambers
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:40am
  I realized this organization is an atheist secular humanist organization and thus may be biased, however, I do think that to some extent, it is true. Perhaps, after experiencing this, they should reconsider their unending efforts to prevent their fellow God fearing citizens from publicly practicing their beliefs. As for the persecution and deaths occurring in the Muslim countries, too many who practice Islam are willing to murder anyone who does not subscribe to their evil belief system, including other muslims.
  
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TheMajority
Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:06am
Nobody should be persecuted, unless they are attacking others.

What is wrong with you people?

When you think of a Atheist in the USA, think of a “Individual” who just wants to live their own life.

Think of Ayn Rand, ——————-not that goofy hbo freak maher.

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Stoic one
Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:01am
Sounds like more ‘special’ rights…….

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michaelmoron
Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:00am
I am an athiest. I can’t stand athiests that go out of their way to disturb other people.
As a libertarian, I condone the execution of athiests that just won’t leave believers alone.
But, I believe that athiests that bother no one should be left in peace.

This Country was founded on the belief that we are all FREE to do WHATEVER we want (I.E. gay marriage, religious beliefs, dye **** purple, etc.) PROVIDED that we DO NOT VIOLATE the RIGHTS of OTHERS !!!!
Two gays being married do not violate my rights, Believing WHATEVER YOU WANT does NOT VIOLATE MY RIGHTS !!!!\

People need to learn respect.

There are two types of people in this world.

1) People that want to be left alone.

2) People that won’t leave them alone.

People from group 1 usually have a tendency to infict violence on the violators from group 2.

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- Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:11am
  I am a Christian Chaplain, yet the matter of freedom to worship as one chooses (or not to worship as the individual wishes) is a fundamental right guaranteed within the Constitution.
  
  Any culture or group that seeks to cram their ideology (no matter what it is, political, religious or the like) by force or via coercion are violating this fundamental freedom ALL of us have. Sadly it is this very right that Obama and the left want to dispose of in the name of ‘conformity from all people.’
  
  So while I may disagree with your view of Atheism, I wish you well the freedom given to us all in the Constitution and may we all be able to be free from the tyranny I see growing from Obama.
  
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- TheMajority
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:12am
  Those Atheists being persecuted and killed are being killed by islamics, who have no tollerance for any belief but their own. They are not the atheists here from commie land causing trouble. They don’t have the nads to live anywhere near islamism.
  
  The story is about islamic intollerance. It could be any other belief under persecution. This writer just choose the non-believer as the only target—but unless he is islamic, he does not want to live anywhere near islamicism either.
  
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- seek.the.truth
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:31am
  @THEMAJORITY — I think you are correct about Islamic intolerance and the day will come when its the Christians who are being executed.
  
  Report this comment
- michaelmoron
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:35am
  *Last post directed @BERTR
  
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- michaelmoron
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:42am
  @DANO5
  
  The people of those Countries were violent, or the Mass Genocides under the direction of Madmen
  was a violent act ?
  
  Once again, I am refering to the PEOPLE, and NOT to psychotic DICTATORS !!!!!!
  
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- barber2
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:55am
  Most Americans do believe in freedom of / from religion. It is only the Chicago radical Democrats who are pushing this divisive attitude in many areas . Care to guess why ? Read your Saul Alinsky, their Community Agitator mentor.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:48am
  @Michael, RE: your original post
  
  If you condone the execution of someone, then you advocate the initiation of violence. Execution is a much greater response or punishment than is needed to make someone ‘leave you alone,’ unless the bothersome twit is making an effort to physically assault you or kill you. Then killing in self-defense would be authorized. On it’s face, your statement essentially disqualifies your claim of being libertarian. I agree with the rest of your post, but perhaps you could reconsider or reword this condoning of execution of ‘bothersome’ people.
  
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- michaelmoron
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 11:11am
  @chrisdiamond
  
  I agree this statement was “radical”. I was using it in reference to the most extreme case of habitual offender.
  
  I say execute, because incarceration costs other people money.
  
  Extradiction to a remote island with other violators could be an option.
  There, they could Violate themselves to extinction.
  
  I believe the world should be free of all VIOLATORS.
  
  This means the Violation of My inherent rights and my right to live in peace.
  
  Rapists, Thieves, Bullies (physical, mental and financial) and people that refuse to leave other peaceful people alone, need to be eradicated form the planet !!!!
  
  The world does not need VIOLATORS !!!!!
  
  I have 0 tolerance for that.
  
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- michaelmoron
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 11:14am
  @ChrisDiamond
  
  I guess the fine line boils down to where does “bothersome” become “harrassment”.
  
  Someone who habitually harrasses is a Violator, in my book.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 12:54pm
  @Michael
  
  I getcha. Have you ever listened to free-market ideas about how to deal with criminal elements or persons in a free (no government) society? They are compelling. A free society would ideally be based around self-ownership and the personal responsibility that comes with it, respect for property rights and the non-aggression principle. There would be contracts, and impartial, private arbitrators to deal with failing to fulfill those contracts, probably a reputation system and insurances necessary for people to engage in business, rent places, buy, sell etc… The higher a person’s reputation, the lower their insurance premiums for business, renting etc would be. With criminals, we could make financial restitution the punishment for aggression, assault, murder, rape, theft, not fulfilling contracts etc, and if they were unable or unwilling to make such restitution, they could be ostracized from society (no business, buying, selling, renting, memberships to organizations, no representation etc) until such time as they could make restitution. I thought it was a compelling idea, and slightly mirrors that of lumping them on an island without the cost of transport. You might enjoy what you read if you’ll google search for it.
  
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TheMajority
Posted on December 10, 2012 at 8:53am
What—islam won’t marry Gays and Atheists!!!????

It is their right not to marry them if it goes against their Religion (same as the Christian Church), but murder just makes a person or group——- murderers.

The new catch phrase should be,–”Freedom of peaceful Religion”. Violent Religion goes to jail.

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- TROLLMONGER
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 8:57am
  Neither will christianity. Both religions have the same mindset about minorities: “If you arent with me, you are my enemy.”
  
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- BODYBAG
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:51am
  @TROLLMONGER
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 8:57am
  Neither will christianity. Both religions have the same mindset about minorities: “If you arent with me,
  you are my enemy.”
  ——————————————-
  Thats right, its about judgement and discernment. The fundamental flaw on “modern thinking” is that
  its all relative, all roads lead to heaven, Im ok —- you’re ok, and all that blather. Moral relativism.
  
  Let’s straighten out another very important misconception while we’re at it — God provides a standard compass to live by that is correct. Christians arent perfect people and dont claim to be. They screw up, often badly. The difference is THEY TRY. Secular humanists and atheists want to eliminate God in order that they may justify themselves and make the rules up as they go. Eliminate any moral authority so that they are their own moral authority.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 12:15pm
  @BODYBAG
  
  Without any respect whatsoever, because your desire to kill people who disagree with you is so apparent in so many of your posts, you really ought to stop doling out your perspective on morality and Christianity. Your posts prove that your moral soundness is at the very least questionable, and that you like the notion of violence being used against people who disagree with you, even to the point of murder. That you claim to be a Christian with these displays is astounding. Your Christ prayed for the people who were beating him and who killed him. You are nothing like your Christ.
  
  You also know nothing outsdie of biblical doctrine regarding ethics and morality. My ethics and morality are based on 3 fundamental principles: self-ownership (and the personal responsibility that goes with it), respect for property rights, and the non-aggression principle, meaning that the only justifiable use of violence is in self-defense from an imminent and direct threat. Consequently, I have no desire to harm anyone, to steal from anyone, or to infringe on someone exercising their liberty to the fullest, so long as it does not rob from me, harm me, or prevent me from doing the same. What about Christian morality or ethics is superior to this? More importantly, with your statements, why in the world do you believe that a neutral party would view your ‘Christian morals/ethics’ as morally superior to these?
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 4:04pm
  Very well put, Chris.
  
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moreteaplease
Posted on December 10, 2012 at 8:53am
This study was done by IHEU? Nah, couldn’t be slanted. So the poor little atheist get discriminated against too? Oh boo hoo! Not as much fun when you’re on the receiving end is it?

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- BODYBAG
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:23am
  Yeah, I will cry myself to sleep tonite over poor little atheists and secular humanists being persecuted. Maybe we should try that here. Karma is a biotch.
  
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- God_Is_Not
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 2:59pm
  More evidence that fundamentalist christians aspire for the same result as fundamentalist muslims.
  
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michaelmoron
Posted on December 10, 2012 at 8:50am
It is a FACT that the most violent cultures are the religous ones.

The Islamists take the cake for being THE MOST VIOLENT religious zealots on the face of the planet.

The most peaceful and non-violent Countries are mostly athiest or agnostic.

FACT !!!!!

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- TROLLMONGER
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 8:57am
  Exactly!!!
  
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- KickinBack
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:01am
  I’m sure that Mao and Stalin would agree.
  
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- bertr
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:07am
  I don’t have trouble believing this. Are the countries that chose not to fight in WWII made up of better people? I’m sure some see it as such, countries that have little war are also amoung those who aren’t going to risk thier own necks to promote freedom and human rights, so that’s not necessarily always a ethicly positive prize to win.
  
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- lonwarner2
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:07am
  The name fits. “Moron”
  
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- Stoic one
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:08am
  Cuba & Venezuela are both secular countries; the USSR also……
  
  By Jove! You are right! Silly me I did not realize how peaceful those countries are/were.
  
  Oh by the way, there is not a single solitary h o m o s e x u a l in the entire country of Iran.
  
  (USSR 20+ million exterminated by the state over its 80 year existence)
  
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- michaelmoron
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:22am
  I am refering to day-to-day violence.
  
  I am not refering to isolated incidents from decades ago, involving tyrannical dictators, indulging in mass genocide, in a secular country.
  
  Nice try, though.
  
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- michaelmoron
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:28am
  @Does the Constitution mention “promoting freedom and human rights” ?
  
  No. Reality check for you.
  
  We are not the world’s police.
  
  We are not the World’s babysitter.
  
  Our Country is coming apart at the seams and WE are supposed to DIRECT other Countries on how to manage their affairs ? Really ???
  
  Here is an eye opener about “spreading Democracy” around the world.
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RewUP-Fdhqk
  
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- Lord_Frostwind
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:32am
  I believe the evidence from the last century disproved your theory. Since it was not directly stated in your post, I’m going to make an assumption that you are referring significantly to the nations of the European Union, so feel free to correct me if I am mistaken in that regard.
  
  First, while religious wars have historically been bloody affairs, it can often become difficult to separate out the actual root cause of that conflict. Was it simply a spat between two royal families and both sides claimed religious precedence for their action? Or was it simply easier for a historian to justify a complex conflict by dumbing it down to “they offended our God?”
  
  Two, secular or outright atheistic nations in the last century caused considerable harm to the human race. The argument could be made that the nations founded under communism or the National Socialists were not actually secular. However, based on their teachings and outright hostility towards organized religion, I’m going to include them, and all the horrors the unleashed upon man here.
  
  Three, specifically in regard to the European Union, I have a beef with a bunch of nations being considered inherently more peaceful, when they greatly on another nation’s military. I hate to play the “what if game,” but without NATO, I doubt the nations of Europe would be nearly so benign and peace loving.
  
  The desire for power is not limited to any faith or ideal, and conflict will always follow, be it in God’s or another’
  
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- Dano.50
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:34am
  Do you not realize the irony of using particular name?
  
  Atheist countries have the WORST record for violence against people.
  
  Russia, China, Cuba, Romania, Hungary.
  
  Countries despising religion have killed incessantly.
  
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- SoNick
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:54am
  @Lord_Frostwind
  Yeah, all those evil Swedes, murderous Finns and stinking Danes have really messed up the planet!
  
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- masimo
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:52am
  Can you say Russia, Germany with Hitler are peaceful countries? Please, Christianity teaches love, which of course is not easy at times. Islam on the other hand teaches to kill the infidel as well as violence towards women and those that do not believe as they do. A christian country such as ours allows those that believe or not to live their lives peacefully, try doing that in the 10/40 window
  
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- SoNick
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 1:01pm
  please retire that tired old falsehood that the Nazis were atheists. Every single Nazi soldier wore a belt buckle that said “Gott Min Uns!” (God With Us!). Also, Adolf Hitler (a Catholic) wrote in Mein Kampf that he was merely executing God’s master plan. So spare us the Nazi = atheist, therefore atheist = nazi trope.
  
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- ChrisDiamond
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 3:38pm
  @LORD_FROSTWIND
  
  Excellent post. Your ‘first’ section talks about understanding the root causes of issues that erupt into wars. That is an important observation to make. Constantine called the council of Nicea together to quell the rabble in the empire between Christian factions that disagreed about dogma, salvation, living Christ-like etc. Paid off for him. Emperor Alexis appealed to Pope Urban II for a Christian Army to retake his lost Byzantine lands, and though it isn’t outright stated anywhere, it’s reasonable to assume that he realized the Pope’s reach (with respect to manpower) was larger, and that men motivated by religion would do much better than Army conscripts fighting to regain tax farms for their emperor. Political leaders love coopting religion for their own ends. Additionally, wasn’t it convenient for the Barbary Pirates to cite Islam as justification for their looting, enslavement and murder? Takes the edge off a profit motive for their criminality.
  
  Secion Two notes the atheist countries, with (presumed) emphasis on Russia and China. No argument, but I would suggest that ststism is akin to religiosity. I mentioned in an OP that statism was responsible for the deaths of 203million+ human beings in the 20th century, but it’s important to distinguish that statism (goal of socialist/communist utopia) was a much more influential factor than atheism.
  
  Section 3, I agree with only one exception: Switzerland.
  
  Excellent post.
  
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Beachbaby
Posted on December 10, 2012 at 8:43am
Look up, go duh. God said it will happen. His word never comes back void.

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- TROLLMONGER
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 8:59am
  So becuase your made up god said something (in reality through a book created by man or voices in your head), it obviously must be true.
  
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- barber2
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:22am
  Monger: Just another nasty, rude comment. Why is insulting another’s beliefs so vital to your commentary ? Your attitude alone divides people . Is that your purpose ? So much like the Chicago radical Democrats are all about : not just having the right to be ” different,” but the need to insult and smear anyone who doesn’t agree with you.
  
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drkmagneto
Posted on December 10, 2012 at 8:42am
Oh cry me a river why don’t you? Atheists persecuted? You know, I don’t care that they don’t believe in God and such, but they should extend the same courtesy to believers. A small group of extremely narrow-minded militant atheists are out to drive all vestiges of anything remotely religious out of the public square, citing the “separation of church and state” excuse every time. Problem is, they’re totally missing the point of the “Bill of Rights” and the “First Amendment”. They’re also so ignorant, they seem to believe that the phrase “separation of church and state” is in the Constitution. It isn’t! Look it up and see! Educate yourself please!

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- denispaul
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 8:51am
  Amen brother!
  
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- TROLLMONGER
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 8:55am
  You have a theocracy mindset. That is not in the constitution either. Educate yourself!
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 8:58am
  This story isn’t about the United States. It is talking about legitimate claims found in other countries. There have been plenty of threads about what SOME militant atheist groups are doing in this country. Why does this story have to be one of them?
  
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- TheMajority
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 8:58am
  The story was not about the USA. The atheist you see in the media are just a commie group attacking the Christian Church. The American Atheist “Individual” has no intention of attaking any Religion, and are probably 90% of Individuals who considers them self a American Atheist.
  
  The American Atheist is a “Individual”, who does not join groups of people. The communist atheist is a foriegn group, with media support, and a destructive goal for our society.
  
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- justangry
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:38am
  Sigh… The Christian and Jewish Supreme Court justices that WRONGLY interpreted the Constitution are to blame for this not atheists. WE’RE not allowed to hold public office in this country.
  
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- tadroid
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:56am
  @ JustAngry. What law prevents an atheist to hold office? That’s just an ignorant comment. The fact that a radical atheist probably can’t get elected doesn’t mean you can run or hold office. I’m sure there are atheists holding local offices in say, San Francisco, Provincetown or Key West. Just sayin’.
  
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- justangry
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 10:15am
  I didn’t say there were any laws. Currently there just aren’t enough people in this country willing to vote for a non-believer.
  
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- The_Cabrito_Goat
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 2:08pm
  Guess we’re just too bronze age huh
  
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- Fubared
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 3:29pm
  Angry ain’t big into math, but like lots of special small groups, demands that math be excluded.
  
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- justangry
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 4:57pm
  Sure I can do math, Fubared. 0 (ZERO) Atheists are responsible for this stuff. How many do you count?
  
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- Fubared
  Posted on December 10, 2012 at 9:21pm
  Angry, you would need to check with the rest of the world where this takes place. As per the story. Here, you guys get special special status. Libs, atheists, artistes, commies, progs, Paulbots. All very special special groups. Sooo special. So special they work through Xmas and Easter and never put in for holiday pay as that would go against there specialness during the rest of the year. It helps if you lisp with every special
  
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