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Is the Death of Evangelical Christianity Imminent? 5 Monumental Issues Facing the Movement

Dec. 17, 2012 3:52pm Billy Hallowell

There’s an old adage: With age, comes wisdom. However, there is certainly a case to be made that there are times in which youth is actually a beneficial attribute — one that can bring with it a different form of wisdom. Case-in-point: Pastor John S. Dickerson, a 30-year-old evangelical leader who is sounding the alarm to his fellow believers in an effort to help the movement adapt to changing societal paradigms.

Pastor John S. Dickerson Writes About the Future of Evangelical Christianity

Pastor John S. Dickerson (Photo Credit: JohnSDickerson.com)

Over the weekend, Dickerson penned a New York Times piece entitled, “The Decline of Evangelical America.” On the surface, the article isn’t an upper for Christians hoping to regain cultural traction.

And it’s certainly worth noting that many who read it will take offense or potentially deny the attributes and allegations made within it (and rightfully so, as each segment of Dickerson’s argument is up for interpretation and discussion).

As a young leader in the evangelical movement, the pastor outlines his views on current societal trends and what they could mean for the future of Christianity in America. Of 2012, he wrote, “It hasn’t been a good year for evangelicals. I should know. I’m one of them.” To understand what he means in making this statement, here’s a recap of how Dickerson views the current scenario:

In 2012 we witnessed a collapse in American evangelicalism. The old religious right largely failed to affect the Republican primaries, much less the presidential election. Last month, Americans voted in favor of same-sex marriage in four states, while Florida voters rejected an amendment to restrict abortion.

Much has been said about conservative Christians and their need to retool politically. But that is a smaller story, riding on the back of a larger reality: Evangelicalism as we knew it in the 20th century is disintegrating.

In 2011 the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life polled church leaders from around the world. Evangelical ministers from the United States reported a greater loss of influence than church leaders from any other country — with some 82 percent indicating that their movement was losing ground.

As for the reason for this decline, the preacher is able to narrow it down in a few simple words: “Structural supports of evangelicalism are quivering as a result of ground-shaking changes in American culture.”

Rather than failing as an institution based on its core tenets, evangelicalism has simply not adjusted to the quickly-shifting societal sands, Dickerson argues. And changes that Christians attempt to make only seem to further splinter the movement, threatening to eventually cause old school evangelicalism to “whimper and wane.”

Photo Credit: AP

Among the challenges facing evangelical churches, Dickerson notes five monumentally-important issues: declining church attendance, a donation crisis (older evangelicals who once gave large sums are aging), failure to adopt to social changes on issues like gay marriage, a dearth in the ability to use its power to achieve conversions and a youth that is decreasingly interested in faith and church (TheBlaze has told you before about the “nones,” many of whom are young).

Despite these issues, Dickerson also offers some prescriptions — although embracing them requires evangelicals to acknowledge that they will likely never regain the sociopolitical footing they once had. He writes:

How can evangelicalism right itself? I don’t believe it can — at least, not back to the politically muscular force it was as recently as 2004, when white evangelicals gave President George W. Bush his narrow re-election. Evangelicals can, however, use the economic, social and spiritual crises facing America to refashion themselves into a more sensitive, spiritual and humble movement.

We evangelicals must accept that our beliefs are now in conflict with the mainstream culture. We cannot change ancient doctrines to adapt to the currents of the day. But we can, and must, adapt the way we hold our beliefs — with grace and humility instead of superior hostility. The core evangelical belief is that love and forgiveness are freely available to all who trust in Jesus Christ. This is the “good news” from which the evangelical name originates (“euangelion” is a Greek word meaning “glad tidings” or “good news”). Instead of offering hope, many evangelicals have claimed the role of moral gatekeeper, judge and jury. If we continue in that posture, we will continue to invite opposition and obscure the “good news” we are called to proclaim.

While the preacher certainly doesn’t argue that the death of evangelical Christianity is imminent, he believes it is time to embrace the notion that conservative believers have lost some of their power — and that a new dynamic is essential.

Read the rest of Dickerson’s views on the state of evangelicals in America here.

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Comments (285)

TH30PH1LUS
Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:37pm
(1) declining church attendance. Direct disobedience to the Acts church model and to Hebrews 10:25

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- Locked
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:52pm
  “In 2012 we witnessed a collapse in American evangelicalism. The old religious right largely failed to affect the Republican primaries, much less the presidential election.”
  
  I think the author is mistaking political clout (and lack thereof, due to poor candidates) with declining religious fervor. A silly mistake to make. When you define your religion but how it can be used to affect the political world, you’re doing it wrong. If religion takes less of a hold in political life, I don’t mind. Identifying as “religious” or “Christian” (and let’s admit it, Evangelist is often the politically correct American term for “fundamentalist”) does not automatically make one “moral.”
  
  There are plenty of churches out there that do NOT adhere to the Bible. There are plenty out there that are more interested in being morally outraged than solving problems. There are plenty out there that are more interested in politics than salvation. And frankly, I’m not surprised that they’re losing members, and I find it hard to feel bad for them.
  
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- Gold Coin & Economic News
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:55pm
  You have to wonder if it is dead. I mean look at the condition we are in. If evangelicals were so strong, how did a commie like Obama get reelected? Why is there still abortion going on in this country and even in the church itself? Heck, we can’t even say that spiritual depravity is the cause of the Connecticut massacre without being vilified. We are looking at even darker days ahead:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRFGAGIIDfs
  
  Report this comment
- Dan_o
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 5:02pm
  Agreed, Locked. There has always been and will be, until the end of the age, a remnant.
  
  [21] “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. [22] On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ [23] And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
  (Matthew 7:21-23 ESV)
  
  Report this comment
- The_Jerk
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 5:50pm
  “… failure to adopt to social changes on issues like gay marriage… .”
  
  If you lose your principles, to become unprincipled, in order to become popular or accepted by the unprincipled, you’ve done nothing but become the downtrodden.
  
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- USAMama
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 6:13pm
  I agree with him, too many Christians focus on the law instead of on His grace. But this isn’t new. The entire book of Galations is Paul urging the Church to stop putting all their effort into trying to follow the law, Jesus died to FREE us from the law. Nobody is capable of following the law perfectly. It will crush you. Instead we need to focus on Gods grace, His love and His forgiveness. We are not God and it’s not our job to “save” people. Our job as Christians is simple: to love others as Christ loves the Church, to show Christs love through us and to share the good news that He loves you too! No matter what you have done, no matter how you are currently living your life, nothing is unforgivable to God. It is simply our job to introduce people to Him and then He will do the rest. We can’t change hearts, only He can!
  
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- Jeffursun
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 6:36pm
  Evangelicals are going the way of the Dodo bird. You’ve preached intolerance and now Evangelicals are panicking, not because they have a problem with preaching hate, but because it doesn’t make sense strategically. So do you stand by your principals? Do you actually believe in your convictions? This is similar to the whole: “We need to love Hispanics now that their ranks are growing.” Bird brains. Good riddance!
- USAMama
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 6:54pm
  Let me clarify my last comment, I do not believe Christians should compromise principles. We should not be ok with homosexuality or abortion, but we should show everyone Gods love regardless of their sins, because we are all sinners. The reason Jesus came was because we were incapable of doing it on our own, ALL of us! To believe that I am sinless is vanity, which in and of itself is sin. To believe that I am capable of living a perfect sinless life is to believe that Jesus died in vain and wasn’t necessary for my salvation, which is self righteousness, also a sin. Jesus died for all sin, not just certain sins. I will not hold love back from people because of their sin because I would not want God to hold His love back because of mine.
  
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- JohnCoroy
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 7:06pm
  The Acts “church” model is that the believers met in homes. No buildings, no mass gatherings, no clergy or hierarchy getting paid huge salaries while being treated as if they held a higher spiritual position than the other members of the assembly. So who is violating the Acts model? And as for Hebrews, assembling was understood to mean getting together wherever, whenever they could. Again, this was done primarily in homes but no place is singled out as being the legitimate way to meet. There is not a single word about “going to church” in the New Testament. It is all about being the church. So some are falling away from fellowship and that is unfortunate. I know many of them have been wounded and disillusioned by the evangelical “churches” who, when you pull the veil back, are more about their love of their programs, productions, staff and vision than the people they claim to serve.
  
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- Hanner
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 7:15pm
  2 Tim 4:3 – For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear
  Isaiah 30:10 – They say to the seers, “See no more visions!” and to the prophets, “Give us no more visions of what is right! Tell us pleasant things, prophesy illusions.
  Jer 23:15 – Therefore, this is what the LORD Almighty says concerning the prophets: “I will make them eat bitter food and drink poisoned water, because from the prophets of Jerusalem ungodliness has spread throughout the land.”
  These scriptures describe the people’s mindset and these worthless preachers. These preachers in these pulpits today ARE NOT chosen, trained, or called by God to do what they are doing. That is why there is a decline in Christianity. People are not stupid. These “preachers” are chosen, and trained by MAN, not God. They have no anointing and have nothing to offer but a fair word and a good speech. People need to be fed spiritually and these false teachers are not filling the need. Whoever God chooses for the work, HE equips them for the job. They are NOT of God. We need some God-chosen preachers in these pulpits again who are not afraid of an empty offering plate when they preach the truth to the people. The true Gospel of Christ is not a popular Gospel.
  
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- Melika
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 7:23pm
  @USAMAMA: You are making a mistake that is common among the faithful. The simple fact that you believe homosexuality and abortion are wrong makes you a hate filled nutter as far as the “mainstream” is concerned. It doesn’t matter if you love the sinner, you are still considered a stupid, small-minded, backwards religious nut. The only way to maintain any standing in this new society is to either change your belief structure (as this man is claiming you should do) or keep quiet about your beliefs.
  
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- USAMama
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 7:46pm
  Melika, you are right. Fortunately for me the mainstream world is not where I get my fulfillment. The “world system” is an enemy of God. All I am saying is my first response to someone struggling with homosexuality or someone who has had an abortion should not be “they are a sinner, an abomination or a murderer,” because that will only turn them away from the good news of salvation! My first response should be as Timothy said “Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. (1 Timothy 1:15 NIV). We need to first show love, let them know that Christ loves them no matter what. There is nothing they can do or have done that would God blush or say “well, yeah, when I gave Jesus I didn’t see THAT one coming!” When Christ died our sins were still future sins, He knew what we were capable of and He died anyway! Let God convict their heart, let Him work inside them. It’s not our job. When they come to know Christ and what pleases Him, if they truly accept His free love, they will want to please Him and He will lead them. Not me, not you. People who immediately condemn and shame people from wanting to come to Christ are causing them to stumble. “It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble.” (Luke 17:2 NIV)
  
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- joeymagila
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 8:10pm
  The church model of an acts church hardly exists anywhere.Perhaps if the “church” was operated as it once was, people might be there.
  
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- jwt
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 8:50pm
  looks like his article is right on. We are not our “brothers keeper” as glen beck and the president claim. we have trouble enough trusting in the Lord to guide our lives
  
  Report this comment
- USAMama
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 9:18pm
  JWT; the Bible does not call us to “be our brothers keeper.” This is one of the most misused passages in the Bible. The only time those words are used in the Bible was when Cain killed Able; “Then the Lord said to Cain, “Where is your brother Abel?”
  “I don’t know,” he replied. “Am I my brother’s keeper?” (Genesis 4:9 NIV). That’s it.
  
  We are called to love one another and help each other when we can but we are not responsible for everyone else’s choices and decisions. We can only control our own actions and share the love of Christ with others so that they too will choose love.
  
  Report this comment
- Wolf
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 9:32pm
  “… old religious right …”
  Uh-huh, especially the ‘old religious right Evangelicals who believe in god and BELIEVE God’ as compared to the new and improved modern (almost) evangelical that changes with the times to please the masses rather than God.
  Good luck, modern evangelicals- God has a few words for you in Revelation, among other places.
  
  Report this comment
- edmundburk
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 9:42pm
  Michele Voris of Churchmiltiant.Com made the same point about Catholics.
  
  Report this comment
- Becks_Art_Obama_In_PeePee
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 2:20am
  “Is the Death of Evangelical Christianity Imminent? … Pastor John S. Dickerson … in an effort to help the movement adapt to changing societal paradigms.”
  
  God has only one organization. And that organization is Him. That’s right, it’s His way or The Highway.
  
  If you go off and start your own organization — “evangelical” or “morman” or “catholic” or “buddhist” or [fill-in the blank] — you’re NOT in God’s organization. So, when all those other organizations fail, that’s a good thing … but not good enough for you, or God.
  
  So let’s start simple:
  * Christmas?
  * Halloween?
  * Easter?
  Still celebrating these renamed pagan holidays? (Then you’re not in God’s organization.)
  
  Report this comment
- Norsepagan
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 7:46am
  Becks_Art : That is what I have been trying to tell people. The fact is that the christians, while trying to convert pagans into their ranks, attempted to make an easier conversion to christianity. The christians took pagan rituals and made up their own holiday around them so the pagans could go on celebrating and appear to be christian. Just like when books of the bible were thrown out when Constantine ordered it. Christians are NOT reading the entire “word of god”. Christianity is a religion to suit man when man sees fit. It will change again. This site is about truth. Look it up!
  
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- Keatonc33
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 8:56am
  “The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.” leviticus 19:34
  
  “Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Matthew 19:24
  
  Once i see these principles adopted by you guys I will start taking your argument against homosexuality seriously.
  
  Report this comment
- enzomedici
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 9:48am
  I’m conservative, but not religious and hopefully the evangelical loony movement does die off. There is nothing more harmful to the GOP than this movement. It is why the GOP lost the last election in a landslide. Barry Goldwater warned about letting these evangelicals take over the GOP and he was right after all.
  
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- turkey13
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 10:24am
  To many preachers just preach God LOVES YOU OR JESUS LOVES YOU. They repeat these statements over and over. Jesus said, “speak where the word is spoken and be silent where the word is silent.” Many preachers are afraid they will offend the congregation. Some preachers get up and just give their opinions. A real preacher will tell you to read along with them as they quote Book, Chapter and verse.
  
  Report this comment
- 4truth2all
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 10:54am
  Yo Beck_ Art:
  
  So you are God ? … and just because a person has a christmas tree in the house they are destined for hell ? Do you know their heart as God does?
  They may be a little lazy and inmature in there faith, but to be thrown out into the darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth is a bit extreme … no?
  You don’t exactly sound like you would be correcting people in the love that Christ would be pointing these things out.
  You should also know that God is not pleased by pride … so please let God do the judging of hearts if you will, and check for planks in the mirror, or get a planer and take the edge off … good day
  
  Report this comment
- Xyskalla
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 11:29am
  Not by might…
  
  And not by power…
  
  And certainly not by political voting blocks…
  
  But by My Spirit, says the LORD.
  
  Report this comment
- SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 11:42am
  I often wonder if what people consider the “church” is much different than what Jesus considers his church? Anyone or group can gather in a building and claim they are this or that, but the church I belong to is an invisible one that can’t be entered into falsely. The church isn’t in bad shape, in fact, it is beautiful and shining brightly, the problem is what many are calling the church and what really is the church are 2 different things. In my opinion, the christian “church” of America is being exposed as superficial at best and false at worst in many instances. All too often the religiously proud and deceived enter through building doors and call themselves Christians when they don’t know Jesus as savior anymore than a pagan. They know OF him just as the Pharisees knew of him, but they refuse to come to him and instead rely and trust in their religiousness to save them. Many will come and say on that day Lord, Lord and he will tell them depart for I never knew you.
  
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- THERAPTURCOMES
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 12:55pm
  The church in the 1st century were all home based and not going to a building with a 501c3. The government has its claws in the church if today and I will never attend a church that has a 501c3
  
  Pastors worked for a living and attended to their flock.
  
  Churches today are corrupt (apostate) and I wont set foot in one
  
  The churches today sit back and wait for people to come to them, the fellow workers of God go out to give the Gospel (Romans 10:9-10 & 1 Cor 15:1-4)
  
  No one pays me a wage to sit on my backside like the church Pastors that are all beholding to the government with 501c3
  
  Report this comment
- naughtycal
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 1:03pm
  Doesn’t the bible talk of these days before the second coming. The days when the people turn their backs on god and worship an antichrist instead. The bible doesn’t say all but it imply a majority of the people will turn away from god.
  
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- P.Tfamily
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 2:29pm
  Gathering together with other solid believers and attending church are often quite a different thing indeed. Most churches in the US have so strayed from the faith that they no longer even resemble the church of acts..You know the Congregation of the saints. So please don’t assume that lack of church attendence is a sign of spiritual decline. Many of us out here Love the Lord with all our heart, soul, mind and strength and serve the Lord according to His will for us. Perhaps American Christians will have to actually BE christians now and not just PLAY the part as church Attenders. God does not take attendance at buildings and temples made by man, nor as He says, does He dwell there.
  
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- INTHEBROTHERHOOD
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 3:02pm
  @usamomma…where have you been hiding? This is the first ive read from you. Your blessed sister. How refreshing to read someone who has it absolutely positively 100 percent correct. Peace
  
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- Cs-Forever
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 9:32pm
  Keatonc33
  Jesus talked about Sodom, will that count? Man, you view God’s word narrowly. Also try 2 TIMOTHY 3. Talk’s about “men of depraved mind”.
  
  LUKE 10 NASB
  8Whatever city you enter and they receive you, eat what is set before you; 9and heal those in it who are sick, and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’ 10But whatever city you enter and they do not receive you, go out into its streets and say, 11′Even the dust of your city which clings to our feet we wipe off in protest against you; yet be sure of this, that the kingdom of God has come near.’ 12 I say to you, it will be more tolerable in that day for Sodom than for that city.
  13″Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles had been performed in Tyre and Sidon which occurred in you, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. 14But it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the judgment than for you. 15And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will be brought down to Hades!
  The Happy Results
  16″The one who listens to you listens to Me, and the one who rejects you rejects Me; and he who rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me.”
  
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- Inquisitor
  Posted on December 19, 2012 at 7:46am
  In a culture which no longer recognizes sin, one must first preach against sin before one can preach grace. Believers are warned from the very beginning that the world will hate them, because it hated Him. The powerful political influence once held by the orthodox (little “O”) church in America is, sadly, an historical aberration. Persecution has largely been (and is set to once again become) the norm. Preach boldly the doctrines of sin, hell, and grace. He will do the rest (Rev. 19:11).
  
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- Jeremiah1023
  Posted on December 19, 2012 at 9:34am
  The end of false religion is near. The current view many have of religion is the fault of religion. If you look at the staggering disgraceful record religion has left, it is very understandable why people see religion as the problem. Why did religion allow the slaughter of the Indians, the enslavement of Africans? Why is racism strongest among those who claim to believe Christ (David Duke, and many support him)? We are rightly outraged about the children killed this week, but what about those killed in our wars? Christians hate abortion, but love war. The Religions have used the name of
  Christ for political and commercial purposes, and they have trodden under foot the name of Jesus.
  
  Report this comment
- JohnCoroy
  Posted on December 20, 2012 at 6:44pm
  I posted a reply 2 days ago. Was it ever posted?
  
  Report this comment
- FoxholeAtheist
  Posted on December 24, 2012 at 4:54pm
  As long as there is a Mickie D’s keeping people stupid, there will be evangelicals.
  
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SonOfThunder
Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:27pm
Yes pastor …lets get the queen James bible! Do you know how to spell idiot.

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- kegbuna
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:45pm
  true blazer
  
  Report this comment
- Raging_Waters
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 9:15pm
  @KEGBUNA
  
  Tolerance: What’s your limit?
  
  Report this comment
- kegbuna
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 12:02am
  Hi Raging, what do you mean by limit?
  
  Report this comment
- Raging_Waters
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 12:41am
  @KEGBUNA
  
  What I mean is, do you have limitless tolerance? At what point would you be willing to lay down your life for your beliefs? Is there a threshold? Will you be complicit as the world around you becomes increasingly corrupted or will you stand against the face of corruption?
  
  Report this comment
- Keatonc33
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 9:00am
  Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Matthew 19:24.
  
  why don’t you hate rich people as much as you hate gays? This is even new test. These are the exact words of JESUS! jesus never mentioned homosexuality…. please explain your hypocrisy!
  
  Report this comment
- TheGrtDcptn
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 10:44am
  ‘Jesus never mentioned homosexuality’…
  
  This lie has gotten old…look up effeminate (in the Bible) and sodomite (in the Bible)…
  
  ‘Thou shalt NOT lie with mankind, as with womankind, it is abomination.’ Leviticus 18:22
  
  ‘If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination, they shall surely be put to death, their blood shall be upon them.’ Leviticus 20:13
  
  ‘The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment, for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God.’ Deuteronomy 22:5
  
  You will find in the Bible that the sodomites flourished under the reign of the wicked kings and they were removed by the good kings–
  
  ‘And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the Lord, as did David his father, and he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.’ I Kings 14:11-12
  
  ‘And he walked in all the ways of Asa his father, he turned not asidefrom it, doing that which was right in the eyes of the Lord, and the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.’ I Kings 22:43
  
  ‘And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the Lord, where the women wove hangingsfor the grove.’ II Kings 23:7
  
  Report this comment
- TheGrtDcptn
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 10:48am
  And…
  
  ‘Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped, and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections, for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature. And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.’ Romans 1:24-27
  
  Report this comment
- Locked
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 11:04am
  @Thgrtdcptn
  
  “‘Jesus never mentioned homosexuality’…
  
  This lie has gotten old…look up effeminate (in the Bible) and sodomite (in the Bible)…”
  
  … none of those quotes were from Jesus. It’s true that Jesus never mentioned homosexuality, and it has also been my experience that most Christians ignore his teachings about the rich and about marriage/divorce.
  
  Report this comment
- TheGrtDcptn
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 12:42pm
  ‘none of those quotes were from Jesus. It’s true that Jesus never mentioned homosexuality’…
  
  And Jesus is…?!…
  
  1 Timothy 3:16 ‘And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness’…
  
  “God was manifest in the flesh”…justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.’
  
  Your words are foolish…
  
  Report this comment
- Locked
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 2:34pm
  “And Jesus is…?!…”
  
  The human aspect of God, distinct but still Him. And the human aspect of God known as Jesus never talked about homosexuality.
  
  Not sure of your point. Jesus Himself never spoke about homosexuality. It’s like saying Jesus never spoke about eating shellfish, but God said it’s an abomination, and saying “so Jesus spoke about shellfish.” No, He didn’t.
  
  Report this comment
- TheGrtDcptn
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 4:07pm
  ‘And Jesus is…?!’…
  
  ‘The human aspect of God’…
  
  So, only the words (God) Jesus spoke while on the earth matter, the rest of God’s written word is null and void, how convenient…for those who choose to live in their sin.
  
  Report this comment
- Locked
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 4:17pm
  @thgrtdcptn
  
  “So, only the words (God) Jesus spoke while on the earth matter, the rest of God’s written word is null and void, how convenient…for those who choose to live in their sin.”
  
  Where did I say that? Homosexuality is a sin; we know it from various parts of the Bible. However, it was never said by Jesus Himself… which is what was originally said ihere and which you took exception to (but were wrong about).
  
  Way to move the goalposts, man.
  
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- Keatonc33
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 7:51pm
  TheGRCPD… whatever. None of your quotes were from jesus!!!!!!! and almost all were old testament. apology accepted
  
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- TheGrtDcptn
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 9:50pm
  http://www.wnd.com/2012/08/did-jesus-condemn-homosexuality/
  
  No apology…
  
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- Locked
  Posted on December 19, 2012 at 6:48am
  … world net daily? Really? Even your source says “Well, if you ignore His words and read into the deeper meaning, yes!”
  
  Oddly, I take the Bible as is. You apparently need to lie about it.
  
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- TheGrtDcptn
  Posted on December 19, 2012 at 11:09am
  The whole Bible is His word, regardless of how you choose to twist what it says. To insist that Jesus didn’t condemn sodomites because he never uttered the word homosexuality while in the flesh is utter nonsense.
  
  John 5:46-47 ‘For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?’
  
  Matthew 5:17 ‘Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets, I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.’
  
  And you tell me I’m lying, for quoting His word, as you spin the article to make a claim that does not exist. (Even your source says “Well, if you ignore His words and read into the deeper meaning, yes!”)
  
  Your circular argument is the height of hypocrisy…It is YOU who ignores His (the whole Bible) words.
  
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copatriots
Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:25pm
Cannot happen……no matter how hard Satan tries.

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- hillbillyinny
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 6:29pm
  Amen!
  
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- U4eeeahhh
  Posted on December 19, 2012 at 7:58am
  People often cite a statistic that 80% of Americans are Christian but I question the perimeters that are set to define the classification. Christianity is not a uniform belief system but rather an umbrella under which hundreds of variations and gradations of the philosophy huddle. Liberal groups that are labeled Christian accept reproductive choice, gay equality and rebuff the Young Earthers while their ecclesiastical opposites say their literal interpretation of the same words produces the conclusion that there is no reproductive choice, homosexuals are an abomination and the Earth was made in 6 twenty-four hour days 5772 years ago. From Mormons to Catholics, Christian Scientists to Unitarian the variations are so great that the “80% are Christian” claim becomes a disingenuous attempt to convey the concept of a large and unified constituency when this is clearly not the case. Less than 20% of Americans regularly attend church and I think that is really closer to an accurate representation for the true group size of Christians. A significantly smaller flock, roughly the same portion of the population as non-believers. The reality is that of the 80% who use the term “Christian” to self-define their religious affiliations, the vast majority are only Cultural Christians, whose parents called themselves Christians so they do to, it’s a go along to get along behavior. The philosophy has no relevance in their day to day lives, is in no way a guiding principle for their existe
  
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- U4eeeahhh
  Posted on December 19, 2012 at 8:05am
  PART 2, continued
  ….for their existence but they call themselves Christian because of cultural pressure to conform to a societal norm. They are really non-believers who just can’t accept the risks of publicly declaring as such because Atheists still are hated by many. And that is why this is the end of the Christian Era in America and you will see today’s 19% non-believers grow to 35% in the next decade. Evangelical radicals like Jeffress and Ken Ham are the best advertisement for rejecting the self-identification and realizing your don’t share their beliefs. Not only is the Evangelical, Fundamentalist Radical Christian passing away, the frothing culture warriors are actually the best recruiters for the Nones
  
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Jezreel
Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:25pm
I don’t believe that at all. Actually, there is going to be a huge move of the spirit of Christ that is going to sweep the country. Persecution will fan the flames to make the body of Christ be on fire for HIM. There will be separation when persecution arises, many will fall away because they don’t truly believe. The body of Christ will also go underground. The spirit of Christ is not in the denominational world. He is outside the door, knocking for you to let him in and when you do, he will sup with you and you will sup with Him.

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- macpappy
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:37pm
  Kumbiyia, my lord, kumbiyia
  
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- The-Monk
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:45pm
  Hi MacPappy,
  
  I left you a message.
  
  Thanks again.
  
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deerjerkydave
Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:24pm
What do Evangelical churches teach about sexual morality? An acquaintance recently asked this question of a local evangelical youth pastor. The reply was shocking. They don’t teach the kids to be abstinent before marriage. Instead they teach them to be “responsible.”

A recent study found that Evangelicals are just as likely to have pre-marital sex as atheists.

I’m sorry but the Evangelical movement cannot last forever being this loose with morals. This is not going to instill in kids the level of faith and commitment necessary to survive in today’s pornographic world. I’m willing to bet that half of today’s male teenagers are addicted to pornography.

http://www.wnd.com/2012/10/porn-addiction-at-crisis-level/

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- soybomb315_II
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:43pm
  divorce is just as high within christian churches than outside of it….And it is even worse in the south
  
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- brigott
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:48pm
  All of the evangelicals that I know teach abstinence, not “responsibility.”
  
  All of the evangelicals that I know are also sinners, prone to give in to the temptations of the flesh.
  
  Christians are forgiven, but that doesn’t make us perfectly sinless.
  
  There but by the grace of God go I.
  
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- Locked
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:56pm
  “All of the evangelicals that I know teach abstinence, not “responsibility.””
  
  Same here. Purity culture, courtship, Quiverfull, patriciarchy… that’s what comes to mind when I think of Evangelism here in the US. Forget only teaching abstinence; I’ve known plenty of Evangelicals who teach their children that even -thinking- sexual or romantic thoughts “gives away a bit of your heart” and will make your future spouse less loved.
  
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- ModerationIsBest
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 1:55am
  @LOCKED
  
  Ah I love thought crime legislation.
  
  We know what you’re thinking, and we can punish you for it!
  
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- Locked
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 10:52am
  @Moderation
  
  I’m really not sure what you mean by thought crime legislation. As far as I know, Evangelicals aren’t pushing for purity culture to be made into law (or if they have, it hasn’t been successful). I think the entire thing is nuts and ultimately harmful to young women (and men to an extent), but it’s their right to do so.
  
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- 4truth2all
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 10:57am
  Yo Locked:
  
  We are to take every thought captive are we not ?
  
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- Locked
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 11:25am
  @4truth2all
  
  Is kissing adultery? Holding hands a sin? How about finding the opposite sex attractive?
  
  The Purity culture of Evangelism seeks to quash all of that. I can understand lust being sinful (Jesus says as much), but purity culture goes further than the words of Christ and becomes about controlling women. The kids I’ve talked to acknowledge they can’t date someone unless they plan to marry that person… and of course that leads to the issue of not knowing if they should marry someone unless they date them first. Quite the catch-22.
  
  The end result is extremely short courtships (we’re talking several weeks or less) or extremely distant ones (lest the couple becomes too close and starts having sinful thoughts). Well, that’s not the end result; the result is two people getting married who don’t know each other or how to have a relationship. The end result is often disappointed expectations, a miserable relationship, and (in about hald the cases) divorce.
  
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rooty
Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:23pm
We can make a difference and turn the trend by supporting those trying to bring the focus back to God. Here’s a way you can help today for less than a cup of coffee: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/deepfriedmanna/help-us-make-an-awesome-interactive-christian-book

Our kids and grandkids are using iPads for games and story books – let’s give them good Christian options!

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pmandassoc
Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:22pm
Christians take our “marching orders” from Scripture, and not from current cultural or societal cues. Following Christ is not about “gaining cultural traction” or “adapting to changing societal paradigms” or regaining ground in “American evangelicalism.” The goal of the Church is not to be liberal or conservative, but to be Biblical. The Church belongs to Jesus Christ, who is her Lord. Jesus made it clear that He is building His church, and as it advances, “the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” That is a statement of offense, not defense. The Church is, in fact, the one, sole and only entity which is wholly indestructible from the time Christ instituted it, and will be so until the end of the world. The current state of things in our nation and in this world is no surprise to her Lord. Nor is it the goal of the Church to gain cultural acceptance or traction, or political clout. While the Church always has, and always will, face opposition, misunderstanding, ridicule and bigoted hatred, our task remains the same–to advance His kingdom by sharing the ENTIRETY of His gospel–even the parts which the culture hates to hear, such as Jesus’ words, “I am THE way, THE truth, and THE life. No one comes to the Father but through Me.” Jesus promised, “in the world you WILL have tribulation. But be of good courage, for I have overcome the world.” Our culture has always retreated from the Church for the same reason–we prefer sin and darkness to lig

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- Witness1974
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:41pm
  Good job! Well said and exactly right on. The devil is busy pleasing the world and coddling the flesh; the church has no part in that. Our eyes are on an eternal kingdom and our job is to be used by the eternal King as He calls sinners to repentance forgiveness and love that only He can give.
  
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- soybomb315_II
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:47pm
  The plight of christian churches and republican party have similarities….
  
  christian churches started to die when they stopped teaching the bible. Republicans sealed their fate when they got away from Goldwater/Reagan and stopped following the Constitution. Christian churches and republican party do anything to increase membership – except return to basic principles.
  
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- westtitus
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:53pm
  You are absolutlely correct, we do not adapt to this culture if we did we would have been gone a long time ago. We follow Christ and if something does not line up with the Bible it is not good for us or our culture. Gay marriage and living together are the same sin as is killing babies in the womb. Everyone knows in their hearts this is wrong and just try to justify their behavior so they will not feel so guilty but it is still wrong and even the un-saved know this. God wrote it on our hearts so their is no excuse just as the Bible says there is no excuse for not knowing right from wrong.
  
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- USAMama
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 9:32pm
  Amen! Very well said! Anyone who says the Church is dying will soon know just how wrong they are! God will not let that happen! I read the end of the Book, He wins =)
  
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Personalforrest
Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:21pm
The one you worship is the one you conform, sacrifice to and adjust to. This man is conforming to society, sacfificing to society and adjusting to society (babylon). The God I know, doesn’t change, and the way He was in the Bible is the way He is today. I believe people are actually designed to worship someone or something and the more government can take away God and replace with Global Warming or some other “good cause” that requires faith to believe in, to sacrifice to and worship, the more control government will have.

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RANGER1965
Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:19pm
Death of evangelical Christianity is not imminent, but according to the Bible, increased persecution is.

You can see it today in the rise of aggressive Islam and Atheism.

Jesus said that the time of the God mockers, and God haters would come. He also said:

“All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”

(Matthew 10:22)

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- copatriots
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:27pm
  Far better said than my post but same sentiment. :-)
  
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- Raging_Waters
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 9:33pm
  Well said, RANGER1965.
  
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kdshell1
Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:19pm
Sweeping generalities without specifics: “Instead of offering hope, many evangelicals have claimed the role of moral gatekeeper, judge and jury.” All “evangelicals” (whatever he means by the term) or only certain ones or certain groups? In what specific ways have these people claimed the moral role? What are his alternatives? Because God’s Word and Law is unchangeable, what would he change? God’s Church cannot change His Gospel in order to stay popular. If we do otherwise, then there is no hope.

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Dan_o
Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:17pm
If the pastor is going to ask me to adapt by getting a haircut like his, he can forget it!

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Cymry
Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:14pm
for a minister, he certainly underestimates what God is capable of doing. i believe that there will be a revival of the christian church in america.

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GENEPAGLIARI
Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:13pm
CHRISTIANITY is not defined by “current” social trends or paradigms. It is based solely on GODLY biblical principles, plain and simple. Stop trying to appeal to the masses. Either the masses change or they don’t. Christ’s teachings are the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. He is totally forgiving to all who accept Him. Repenting (means turning from the status quo) is a requirement. Christianity is not grocery store where you go in and select a few items that are appealing. It is simply all or nothing. That being said, however, by adding a little at a time is sometimes the easiest to accept. Jesus is an Almighty Forgiver who has infinite capability to bear and forgive. All that is needed is for us to receive His blessings. Just do it.

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FormerLib
Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:13pm
As an evangelical myself I think Evangelicalism dies whenever it ties itself to politics to achieve the goal. Chrisitians as individuals being politically active is fine, but as a “voter bloc?” Sorry, that’s not our job, nor should it be. Jesus himself had ample opportunity to use politics to achieve his ends and declined to do so. In fact, a case could be mad that this is the reason he was crucified: Israel was expecting a military leader as savior to come and defeat the Roman and establish a righteous government. When Jesus didn’t do it, they turned on him. Christianity is an inside job, and evangelism is done from person to person, house to house, not from the top down.

Having said that, the idea that Christians must adapt more of the culture to be relevant is idiotic. It is Watering down the message to make it palatable to those in sin is why it’s ineffective in so many cases. There will always be those who reject the message. That’s nothing new, and the further away from God the culture moves, the more the message is rejected. But to declare it dead is a bit premature. The Dark Ages didn’t kill it in Europe. Communism has not killed it in Russia or China. It will last long after the US is a memory in the history of the world, unless Christ returns first.

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- kdshell1
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:26pm
  Political party affiliation and loyalty is unwise, but when Christians individually exercise their responsibility as part of America’s “Caesar” (We the People) according to God’s Word and Holy Spirit direction, they will act as God’s voting bloc, humanly unorganized as it may be. Of course, this also requires becoming and staying fully informed and involved on the issues.
  
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- Ranger1967
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:35pm
  I have to agree with your post more than the story itself. I am a Orthodox Catholic and we don’t modernize for society or the Pope. Last I checked, there were no revisions of the Bible. Some will twist it, slam it, imply meaning all they want….its the same book, the same god and Jesus. I recognize more of a problem with parents of kids now days. They themselves, do not practice at a church or attend but claim to be christian. The kids miss that part of growing up among peers and the word. We are leaving out generations of our kids like the school shooter….where was the morality that a kid could do that?
  
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Mudd
Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:13pm
“Instead of offering hope, many evangelicals have claimed the role of moral gatekeeper, judge and jury.”
That pretty much sums up my problem with evangelicals and many of the other off-shoots of Christianity. Kind of the same problem I have with a lot of Muslims.

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- oldguy49
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:20pm
  yep but……christians don’t kill you if you don’t believe in their religion !!!
  
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- alinmatt
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:41pm
  @oldguy, they used to.
  
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- Mudd
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:53pm
  Yeah, they used to. I wonder if that change in policy upset some people.
  
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- alinmatt
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:56pm
  Now that I think about it, they still do. It wasn’t that long ago that Catholics and Protestants were still killing each other in Ireland. Then there is the Lord’s Resistance Army in Uganda/Sudan that wants a society based on the ten commandments – they’ve done horrendous things in the name of God.
  
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- jrc99
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 6:46pm
  @alinmatt and mudd
  
  Christians never have killed those who do not follow Christ. Because has never told us to kill in His name to the non-believer. If any has they are liars. Christianity starts with Christ.
  
  Wake up!
  
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- alinmatt
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 7:13pm
  @jrc, take a look at 1 samuel 15. Take a look at what Christians have done to the Jews. Catholics have a long history of persecuting the Jews. Martin Luther was an anti-semite as well. Take a look at what the Puritans did in the Pequot war and then read their journals. Take a look at the Spanish Inquisition. I can go on and on. It’s rather convenient for Christians to dismiss one another as non-christian because somebody does something they disagree with, especially when the foundations of Christianity have been built on the blood of non believers.
  
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- Mudd
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 7:14pm
  JRC99, aren’t you splitting hairs, what about the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, the Salem witch trials?
  
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msconstrue
Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:13pm
as a Christian i cant, in clear conscience modify my beliefs just because society has changed. for me, a sin is still a sin and just because a slight majority has said some things are now acceptable doesn’t make it so.

call me old-fashioned, but i will remain the way i’ve always been.

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- Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:15pm
  Same here.
  
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- SonOfThunder
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:24pm
  Yes sister amen!
  
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- momrules
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 5:03pm
  As will I and as I see the world getting darker and uglier as people turn from the teachings in the Bible my faith in God and Christ just gets stronger.
  
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- dflocks80
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 5:04pm
  There’s nothing wrong with holding to your principles, but there’s plenty wrong with inserting them into the government (not saying that you do so, but this is the trend among a lot of the religious right). For instance, you may think homosexual behavior is an abomination. It’s fine if you do. However, who are you to run to the government and ask that they forbid something because your religious text tells you it should be forbidden (once again, not directed at you, just a hypothetical person who does this).
  
  I respect a lot of Christian principles, and the government should protect one’s right to live by them. The government should not coerce others to follow these principles however, unless they directly interfere with one’s basic rights (life, liberty, and the pursuit). This goes both ways, as the government should not impose non-Christian beliefs on Christians (forcing a Christian-owned bakery to bake a cake for a homosexual wedding, for instance).
  
  The fall of evangelical Christianity is directly tied to their link with politics. Every election, we have a subset of candidates that can win over this bloc by simply stating the word “God” as often as possible. Until the evangelicals begin to vote on small government irregardless of the realm (social or economic), they will be doomed to destruction.
  
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- bava
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 5:30pm
  Exodus 22:18. You haven’t modified that one yet because of modern beliefs? You are diseased.
  
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- revron
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 9:15am
  We have to separate that which is fixed from the flexible. The Word Of God is like a property line. It is there from generation to generation and never changes. Methods are like wine skins and must change to be effective.
  Younger generations fail because they compromised truth and diminished God in order to gain societie’s acceptance. Problem; We become like what we worship and a diminished God demands diminished service.
  The old school failed in elevating their traditions above the word of God. The pharisees did this and Jesus said, in doing so, they made God’s word of none effect (Matt. 15). What they have left is dead religion and their concept of church is irrelevant to younger audiences (organs anyone?).
  
  I replaced the pews in my church with chairs. I had people cry over a lost pew who never shed a tear for a lost soul. Older generations must ask themselves, the things you care about in church, are they a concern to God?
  We must be flexible in our methods but firm in the truth. Most of all, we need revival. Young people don’t want to learn God from a book, but experience God personally. We owe the lost an encounter with the living God. When we told the world that “God doesn’t do those things anymore” to justify our powerlessness that was 1 example of a diminished concept of God.
  
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jakartaman
Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:11pm
Faith and beliefs can not be compromised based on current culture. I for one believe our “culture” is quickly declining.
It just might be that the culture is wrong and taking weak “christians” with it.
We see it with Catholics who cherry pick the Faith they feel comfortable with – ie gay marriage, abortion etc.
Jesus does not want people pleasers – HE wants GOD pleasers – follow the WORD

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naughtycal
Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:11pm
You can’t rewrite the bible to fit a quote unquote social paradigm. If the voter overwhelmingly voted for satan as a good guy who this false prophet follow suit. If religion is a business he would if he actually believe the word he couldn’t…..
Evangelicals aren’t losing following because of their morality they’re losing followings because of their lack to accept immorality…..
The leftist view morality as what ever is socially accepted among a 50% or better of the population………be it gay marriage.beastality,heroin,or porno
Morality isn’t that at all morality are the moral social behavior developed over thousands of years of civilization….To spit in the face of that is to de-evolve to nothing but baser animals

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SDAJumpmaster
Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:10pm
Truth will always stand up to scrutiny, and when truth is supposedly snuffed out it always finds a way to rise up again. “I tell you,” (Jesus) replied, “if (these people rejoicing in Jerusalem at my entry) keep quiet, the stones will cry out.” Luke 19:40

God does not need me to defend Him; He is big enough to handle Himself. But I will not change my principles to conform to societal norms.

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Jenny Lind
Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:07pm
I don’t think our church is having as many of these problems, but I think he is 100% correct to say we don’t need to act like we are morally superior. We are all sinners, every single one of us. We need to be humble, faithfull and loving. Sometimes when I see Blazers wishing someone to burn in hell it saddens me. We need to stop being the judge because we are not-thank goodness. It isn’t up to us to say who will end up where. Reaching out in friendship and love will gather far more to us than any other way. It’s how Christ, our Saviour did it. Love always wins-just see how Christ’s life is still an example after 2,000 years.

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- soybomb315_II
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:13pm
  and Jesus tried to win the sinners over, not put them in jail
  
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- GENEPAGLIARI
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:18pm
  Amen!
  
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- SonOfThunder
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:28pm
  Jenny you sound like Rob Bell.
  
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- Cabinessence
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:47pm
  But didn’t he keep using that word Repent?
  
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kegbuna
Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:07pm
Notice how once we broke the shackles of religion i.e. at our founding, religion has had to adapt to what the people have wanted. We no longer have to quiver in front of a theocracy, ruled by men who claim to SPEAK FOR God. Now, the people own society and it is religion that must bend to stay viable. Now, we don’t attend masses where the preacher speaks in a language we would never learn, only to deliver an abridged and false “translation” at a later time. Thank God for the separation of Church and State.

The Vatican is probably the most shameful place in history. A home for men who claim to be chosen by God, and yet it is made of gold, adorned with jewels, full of all sorts of luxuries? Is this how Jesus saw the future of his church?

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- edmundburk
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 9:54pm
  @kebunga- Another anti catholic quote in 1…2….3…..
  
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- kegbuna
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 12:00am
  Protestants were the original appeasers to the public’s will. It is only natural that Catholic church is the true source of the problems we see with faith, at least from a western perspective. Is there an issue you have with me speaking about the Catholic church?
  
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Brooke Lorren
Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:07pm
The Bible predicted that there would be a great falling away in the last days; we shouldn’t be surprised when it happens. Just because society changes, doesn’t mean that God does. If someone is not willing to follow what the Bible says, they might as well not bother going to church at all, because it would then be just a waste of time.

There may be fewer and fewer Christians, but rather than departing from God, they need to stick with God, and realize that the times that we are living in (where more and more people are hostile to Christianity) have to happen before the end. That doesn’t mean that we don’t stop trying to reach others, but when people aren’t interested, that doesn’t mean trying to change what God says to try to interest them.

When the rich young ruler asked what he could do to inherit eternal life and Jesus gave him a message that he didn’t like, Jesus didn’t run after him and say “wait! I’m sure we can compromise!” He let him walk away sad. It may be that now, we have more and more people that will walk away.

That being said, as the world becomes more hostile to Christians, those of us that remain will have to realize that the people against us may end up hating us, attacking us, or even killing us because they don’t like what we have to say. That’s in the Bible too.

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- Oldphoto678
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:25pm
  When we kill you it won’t be because we don’t like what you have to say. It will be because we don’t like what you do.
  
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- Plan B
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:35pm
  Brooke,
  Very nicely said. I want you to remember 2 Kings 6:16
  
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- KingCanon
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 5:21pm
  God Bless You OLDPHOTO678. You will bow some day. If I peeled
  back the layers of your existence I’d find God right there in your heart.
  
  Brooke Lorren… EXCELLENT POST! SO TRUE!
  
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- breakobamanow
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 5:53pm
  I could not have said it any better. God bless you.
  
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- hillbillyinny
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 6:41pm
  Brooke, you are 100% on track!
  
  I don’t know that this is the actual “end times” yet, but you are correct about the “great falling away”! And you are correct about how those who do not understand God’s live will treat those of His family (as illustrated in the first response to your post by @oldphoto. . .
  
  Evil is rampant in the world at this time. It is not limited to one or two groups or thinking. Those of us who go through our life quietly, witnessing to our Lord in our life, answering questions when asked, and praying for all of no threat to others. But we will not give in to others forms of faith as put forward in some belief systems including Islam, humanism, “mother earth” worship, and other type of pseudo religions or faith systems or lack thereof.
  
  I never thought I’d see in the U.S. in my lifetime but things are moving fast! Now know why I was born, to pray for all those who will not or cannot not respond to God. I pray for their understanding of God’s LOVE for them and for His promises for them.
  
  God bless you, sister-in-faith.
  
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- Brooke Lorren
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 11:07pm
  Oldphoto, there may be some people who are killed because of what they do, but there will be plenty who are killed because non-Christians don’t like what we have to say as well.
  
  Sure, there are wackos like the Westboro “Baptist” Church, that do awful things. Most Christians just quietly live their lives and try to do the right thing (most that I know, that is). As far as I know, going to church and praying don’t bother most people. Trying to avoid sin is also not something that really to most people is worth killing someone over.
  
  There are things that Christians that try to follow God do NOT do that I suppose might make non-believers angry enough to kill them at some point, but I think that for the most part, it will be people upset over what we believe and what we say that will lead to our demise.
  
  Back in the first century, Christians were killed because they believed in an illegal religion, or superstition. They didn’t believe that Caesar was God and wouldn’t sacrifice to him or to the pagan Gods, and that was what led to their murders. It had nothign to do with actions that they did do.
  
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- MachIV
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 6:03am
  Brooke, thanks for your post. I was going to say the same thing as the NT does say “in the last days, many will fall away”, so essentially, the decline we see is actually testimony to scriptures truthfulness. Prophecy is being fulfilled.
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on December 18, 2012 at 9:13am
  Why do you suppose there would be a “falling away”?
  
  Brooke, are you making this statement for the United States, too?
  
  “That being said, as the world becomes more hostile to Christians, those of us that remain will have to realize that the people against us may end up hating us, attacking us, or even killing us because they don’t like what we have to say. That’s in the Bible too.”
  
  If it got to that point in America, then it would have ceased to BE America long before that point. As a non-religious person, and a constitutionalist, that won’t be an America I would live in, anyway. I don’t hate theists. I certainly would never kill those who are. And I would say that most other non-theists would say the same.
  
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IMO888
Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:06pm
This country is in need of a Great Awakening. Pop culture and the liberal agenda has so corrupted society, my fear is that we’ve reached the tipping point. I think it will take a miracle from God to turn it around.

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- macpappy
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:12pm
  Good luck with that one.
  
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- GENEPAGLIARI
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:16pm
  We have had revival before. What’s the matter, don’t you think God can handle it?
  
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- macpappy
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:34pm
  I have seen no evidence of such.
  
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- GENEPAGLIARI
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 5:02pm
  Compared to the short-sightedness we earthlings have, God moves very slowly. However He does always seem to move just in the nick of time, choosing His own time and place and method.
  
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Arkansan by Choice
Posted on December 17, 2012 at 3:59pm
When one changes his principles to “adapt to changing societal paradigms” …one must wonder, did I have any real principles to start with?

Principles are written in stone, strategies are written in sand.

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- FightingBear
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:08pm
  Exactly!
  
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- kegbuna
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:10pm
  Exactly how I am seeing this. What can the church “adapt on” if it was already following the “word of God?” Now, suddenly, because people are leaving in masses and denouncing them, they choose to accept what the people have already decided was right? Perhaps it is WE who know what God’s moral code is, and the Church relies on us to teach IT.
  
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- DougHuffman
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:14pm
  How to identify a principle; that which will not be compromised.
  
  The faith of an agnostic is precisely the same as the faith of the Faithful. The hypothesis and the null-hypothesis are not falsifiable, thus (after Popper) not scientific, but supernatural and unknowable, subject only to belief.
  
  Good people ought to be armed as they will, with wits and Guns and the Truth. God Bless Bitter Clingers, damn know-nothings, progressives. “From my cold, dead hands” works for me.
  
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- kegbuna
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:37pm
  I don’t think agnostics came into this discussion until your comment, but perhaps it is significant as it seems that is where a lot of people are heading. Now an agnostic claims that he or she has absolutely no idea if God exists or not. There is nothing to falsify. I think you are referring to atheists who believe there is no God.
  
  I think when talking about atheists, one needs to know what exactly they think does not exist. Does it merely mean that there is no higher being, responsible for our creation, or does it mean that the God as described in the Bible is not real? I think it is the latter. Simply put, there are too many logical inconsistencies for the God of Book to exist, however that does leave the possibility that there is something out there. However, I don’t think that God would build things up just to knock them down, out of “anger”. How is an omnipotent being angry, ever?
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 5:05pm
  Kegbuna, you asked, “…one needs to know what exactly they think does not exist. Does it merely mean that there is no higher being, responsible for our creation, or does it mean that the God as described in the Bible is not real?”
  
  Allow me to shed some light on this. An atheist doesn’t “think something does not exist”. An atheist reviews the claims of those professing a god, and because nothing credible or compelling is found IN that claim, . . . the claim is rejected. It isn’t a matter of “faith” or “a guess”.
  
  As for “the god found in the bible”, . . . as with all the other deity claims, nothing like them has ever been found, just the beliefs and writings of ancient people [a time when most beliefs originated in the uneducated past].
  
  An agnostic is uncertain of whether or not “deities exist”. I would say that most agnostics are closer to being atheistic than being theistic. The overwhelming evidence of a purely naturalistic world and universe, with no “supernatural” based evidences, the “meter” points well toward no gods. BUT, that stance leaves an opening for POSSIBILITES, . . . which requires VERY little “faith”, since the evidence is against it.
  
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soybomb315_II
Posted on December 17, 2012 at 3:59pm
what is the difference between a bible-believing christian and an ‘evangelical’?

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- macpappy
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:13pm
  One about redemtion, and one is about ratings.
  
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- HUGGINGMYBABIES
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 4:41pm
  Amen.
  
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- mandmsgirl
  Posted on December 17, 2012 at 7:26pm
  @Soybomb315_11
  Christianity differs in many ways..but Evangelicals believe in the spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit
  
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