Should prayer be more prevalent in public schools?
Following the horrific shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School last Friday, this is one of the many cultural questions that is being asked, as Americans grapple with understanding the senseless rampage. In October, well before the horror unfolded in Connecticut, TheBlaze asked readers to weigh in on the debate over faith and its presence in public schools – a contentious subject that has, once again, come to the forefront this week.
The results of the Blaze poll are fascinating. When asked whether it is appropriate for public school teachers to lead prayer in the classroom, the majority of readers who participated in the poll answered affirmatively. While 54 percent contend that it is appropriate, 46 percent claim that it is not (1,658 individuals answered this question).
As for the relevance of prayer in public schools, 82 percent of respondents noted that it is sometimes pertinent for prayer to be present in public schools, with 18 percent rejecting this ideal.

People pray at Mountainside Assembly of God Church in Coal Township, Pa., during a interfaith prayer vigil, Sunday, Dec. 16, 2012, for the victims of Newtown, Conn. Twenty-six people, including 20 children, were killed in Friday’s shooting rampage at Sandy Hook Elementary School. (Photo Credit: AP)
In a separate question, 64 percent of respondents said that they would support a teacher leading Christian prayers in the classroom, with 36 percent rejecting such a notion (of 1,686 participants).
As for reading out of the Bible during class time, 74 percent of the 1,674 people who answered this question support teachers taking such actions; 26 percent do not.
In contrast, 95 percent of those participating said that they would not be supportive of teachers leading Muslim prayers, with only five percent claiming that they would be. These proportions transition a bit when the words “Muslim prayers” were switched out for “non-Christian prayers.” The latter numbers were 88 percent and 12 percent, respectably.

Photo Credit: AP
These beliefs coincide with the notion that America is a Christian nation. While derived from a smaller sample size (975), 91 percent of readers who took the poll believe that “the USA is a Christian nation founded under Christian beliefs?” Only nine percent disagreed with this statement.
Despite concerns that sometimes arise over separation of church and state, many of these findings are not necessarily surprising. With the vast majority of Americans embracing Christian ideals, it’s no wonder there is widespread support for Christian invocations.
What do you think about prayer in schools and America’s religious heritage? Let us know in the comments section below.
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Comments (324)
Trapper20
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:45amWithout hesitation, yes.
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GENEPAGLIARI
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:50amAgreed!!!!!!!!!!
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Trigus
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:50am“Finally, let us not forget the religious character of our origin. Our fathers were brought hither by their high veneration for the Christian religion. They journeyed by its light, and labored in its hope. They sought to incorporate its principles with the elements of their society, and to diffuse its influence through all their institutions, civil, political, or literary.”
Daniel Webster
“It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.”
Patrick Henry
“If religious books are not widely circulated among the masses in this country, I do not know what is going to become of us as a nation. If truth be not diffused, error will be; If God and His Word are not known and received, the devil and his works will gain the ascendancy, If the evangelical volume does not reach every hamlet, the pages of a corrupt and licentious literature will; If the power of the Gospel is not felt throughout the length and breadth of the land, anarchy and misrule, degradation and misery, corruption and darkness will reign without mitigation or end.”
Daniel Webster
“Education is useless without the Bible.”
Noah Webster
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rickc34
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:52amYes, give God and the Bible equal time and let the children make the choice on what they want to believe.
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dynaflow1
Dec. 19, 2012 at 9:01amAmen and Amen!!!!!!!!!
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Locked
Dec. 19, 2012 at 9:06amWithout hesitation, no.
I don’t believe the government has any business teaching children about one single religious belief… because NO ONE agrees on one single religious belief, even within Christianity. All belief is based on faith, and you can’t teach faith. I don’t want the government to even try and tell kids what to believe… do you?
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valiant1776
Dec. 19, 2012 at 9:08amLet’s do what the founders did, and nor restrict the people’s natural right and power to determine the education of their own children. The Constitution never granted our national government the power to govern education. Let each district decide for itself.
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NEWSTALKER
Dec. 19, 2012 at 9:12amI totally agree with all of you guys…its nice to know that I have brothers on here…thanks for the encouragement…There is no other way to live life…
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oldguy49
Dec. 19, 2012 at 9:14amso why is the minority leading this nation into destruction and darkness
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PubliusPencilman
Dec. 19, 2012 at 9:18amHaha. What nonsense. The Blaze claims widespread support for God in schools based on a survey of Blaze readers. And they keep mentioning the sample size as if that somehow makes it more accurate! Hahaha.
We have no established religion in this country, and preaching in public schools violates the rights of non-Christian Americans to free exercise. Children are legally obligated to attend public school, and therefore they would be legally obligated to be exposed to Christian preaching. This is a direct violation of religious freedoms.
When you claim that this is a Christian Nation, you spit in the face of what made America unique in the first place.
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starman70
Dec. 19, 2012 at 9:31amNot only yes but YES YES YES!!!!
The Bible teaches the basic tenets of morality and social interaction. The lessons of the Bible has been used for thousands of years to teach proper conduct. Ever since the Bible has been removed from schools, America has been on a slippery downhill slope. The socialist / secular humanism mantra has replaced the Bible and we are now reaping the effects of that sort of thinking.
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chucksue351
Dec. 19, 2012 at 9:32amthe constitution protects the minority from the majority, even in things that seem good and righteous
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valiant1776
Dec. 19, 2012 at 9:34amThis is a Christian nation.
Publicpencilman is an idiot of the first degree. His version manufactured by the left is laughable. He cries when there is no wolf. He says, well, if schools teach Christian values, well, what about the non-Christians? Well, do what we Christians have been forced to do; pay to go to another school.
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Stella_Mack
Dec. 19, 2012 at 10:07amSure, so long as we allow Muslims prayer and educational promotion of the Koran in Muslim-majority schools (think Dearborne), Jewish prayers and study of the Torah in Jewish majority schools, Roman Catholic prayer and Old Testament for Catholic majority..ect.
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BODYBAG
Dec. 19, 2012 at 10:18amDo bears s*** in the woods?
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YouCantExplainThat
Dec. 19, 2012 at 10:23amI would agree, but only if equal time is give to the Qur’an.
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PubliusPencilman
Dec. 19, 2012 at 10:30amValiant,
No one is forcing Christians to pay to go to another school. There is an obvious difference between Christians paying to be preached to, and non-Christians paying NOT to be preached to. Liberals did not make up the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause–The government is not authorized to promote specific religious practices, and it is certainly not authorized to intimidate non-Christians through public institutions.
If you are representing Christian morals with your infantile name-calling, then clearly this kind of thinking wouldn’t benefit our schools.
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PubliusPencilman
Dec. 19, 2012 at 10:33amStella,
Majority rule doesn’t trump minority rights. This is a very basic tenet of our republic, so I hope you realize this. It doesn’t matter if a town is 99% white–that town has no right to intimidate the other 1% by declared that it is a “white” town.
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Rational Man
Dec. 19, 2012 at 10:37am-George Washington
“What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.”
“It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible.”
“The propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained”
“While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian.”
James Madison
“We have staked the whole future of the American civilization, not upon the power of the government (but) upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.”
Patrick Henry
Ratifier of the U.S. Constitution
“It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.”
–The Trumpet Voice of Freedom: Patrick Henry of Virginia, p. iii.
“The Bible … is a book worth more than all the other books that were ever printed.”
–Sketches of the Life and Character of Patrick Henry, p. 402.
I agree w
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Trigus
Dec. 19, 2012 at 10:46amSimple solution – repeal all Taxes that benefit education, then start home schooling your children. Why as a society do we allow others to raise our children or to even protect them.
From birth we toss our children into day care, then into public schools and allow others to educate both spiritually and academically. Why?
Please read this carefully: Then think on it:
“It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.”
Patrick Henry
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YouCantExplainThat
Dec. 19, 2012 at 10:49am@Rational Man
All the people you quote owned slaves. Should we follow their example in that as well. Who gives a **** what a they thought, on this their views are irrelevant as their views on slavery.
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Marine25
Dec. 19, 2012 at 10:59am@Valient
Pencil is no idiot. But your argument is juvenile. Non-christians who are forced to attend school where another faith is taught in the classroom should just do what you christians have been forced to do? What you have been forced to do is attend a public school where no one’s religion is taught as part of the curriculum. All religious kids have the same deal now in schools. You want to place your version of faith in the curriculum, and then say to the jewish kids, know you’ll learn how we felt?
No one is forcing you to turn to private school. christians are just pi$$ed because they don’t get to have their religion singled out as ‘the best’ while all the other kids watch. The kids at these schools could make a better argument. My guess is they wouldn’t choose to, as they are likely more reasonable and tolerant than their parents on this issue.
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Locked
Dec. 19, 2012 at 11:02am@Trigus
““It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.””
Good Lord, man. Look up your references before you throw them out there. This is NOT a quote from Patrick Henry. This is a line from a 1956 piece in The Virginian that was ABOUT Patrick Henry, not BY him. It quotes Henry in the piece, then the author gives this quote. The language itself should be a dead give-away; “religionists” was a term used to describe crackpot fanatics in colonial times.
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valiant1776
Dec. 19, 2012 at 11:08am@Publicpecanman The federal Government, through the supreme Court, has forced schools to not teach godly morals or values, thus adopting by defacto an atheist position. They did not take a neutral position wherein each school or school district can decide for themselves, but forced one mandatory policy upon all schools. The rest of your assertions are nonsense, since the federal Government was never even given any constitutional jurisdiction to govern over education. Yes, you’re a fool. You pretend to uphold and know the Constitution when all you do is spout the talking points of the degenerate Left, who publicly admit that they want to change the Constitution, and that the Constitution can evolve or be interpreted differently from its original intent. The First Amendment does not prohibit laws regarding religion, but prohibits Congress from creating an official Religion by law. So yes, when you spew nonsense that corrupts the Constitution which promotes an agenda foreign to the founders, you’re an idiot. And if you’re representative of Liberals and the rest of the leftist clowns, then clearly they’re idiots too. A central government having a monopoly over what can and can’t be taught to school children is despotic at its core. Only communist nations have absolute centralized control over education.
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Locked
Dec. 19, 2012 at 11:09am@Rational Man
You have some very poor quotes there.
“What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.”
This one is horribly mangled from a letter to the Delaware native Americans, where Washington thinks that learning about Jesus Christ will calm down their aggressive culture.
“My ears hear with pleasure the other matters you mention. Congress will be glad to hear them too. You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are. Congress will do every thing they can to assist you in this wise intention; and to tie the knot of friendship and union so fast, that nothing shall ever be able to loose it.”
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valiant1776
Dec. 19, 2012 at 11:14am@YOUCANTEXPLAINTHAT So let’s just trash the whole Constitution then. Let’s leave the US, and give our homes to indigenous tribes, after all, these same signers ‘stole this land from the Indians’. We have no right to live here. And while we’re at it, let us give away all the prosperity we’ve been able to enjoy in this nation since the founders of this nation were ‘slave owners’. And, since these same ‘slave owner’ singed the Declaration, let’s give up on Independence and just surrender to our enemies.
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valiant1776
Dec. 19, 2012 at 11:23am@MARINE25 Mentioning the word God is not teaching religion. Reading the Talmud, studying the Talmud, and discussing the Talmud does not make me a Jew or adherent of Judaism. Liberals are just crying wolf. Liberals area against freedom and rather have one mandated forced policy placed upon all schools, then to allow any alternative and are allow schools to chose their own policies. The tragedy on Friday proved that the supreme Court’s decision was senseless. Everyone in that school attend some form of memorial or vigil that was filled with religious content and references. Liberals are just mad that students would actually be taught responsibility, accountability and virtue.
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JRook
Dec. 19, 2012 at 12:42pmSo let me get this straight a poll of a individuals who routinely visit a conservative, republican site that promotes christianity ever chance it gets supports prayer and reading the bible in public schools by only 54%. I think the report should focus on why the support is so pitifully low.
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squirrley4
Dec. 19, 2012 at 1:50pmAgree
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jhrusky
Dec. 19, 2012 at 2:13pmWhat amazes me here is the number of people that apparently would be happy living in a theocracy! No public school should be teaching any one specific religion. If the school is public, how can anyone here who supports the Constitution (which appears to be the majority, including myself) not understand the separate of Church and State? A public school establishing a specific religion is anti-Constitutional, plain and simple.
Now that said, if a person wishes to send their children to a private school that teaches their flavor of religion, I have no issue with that. I would go a step further in adding some sort of school voucher for those children as well to ensure anyone who wanted a specific religious school had no financial burden to accomplish that.
But, bottom line, no one God should be taught exclusively in public school. If children want to discuss various religions without teachers endorsing any specific one, that is fine. If a child wants to carry and read a Bible or Koran in school during their free time or study hall, that is fine and certainly should be allowed as well.
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jhrusky
Dec. 19, 2012 at 2:15pm@ jrook
“So let me get this straight a poll of a individuals who routinely visit a conservative, republican site that promotes christianity ever chance it gets supports prayer and reading the bible in public schools by only 54%. I think the report should focus on why the support is so pitifully low.”
Because, fortunately, there are conservative Christians who are still thinking individuals and understand why we have a separation of Church and State and want to keep it that way.
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davecorkery
Dec. 19, 2012 at 2:21pmOne hesitation: Whose bible, which book? The catholics will not follow along with a lutheran bible, the presbyterians won’t use the baptist one, etc. BTW, MY bible is the right one, all others, all other religions are wrong. My christian god is NOT yours. You are heathens, and I will fight you all the way if you don’t make MY bible the chosen one.
See the problem? We are not all christian in the USA. Will your kids hide in the hall when the muslim students demand equal time?
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turkey13
Dec. 19, 2012 at 3:57pmBack in my day when we had a prayer by the principle each morning and the word GOD wasn’t a cuss word you never heard of schoo shootings. We now have 2 generations out there that don’t are haven’t been to church. Kids now don’t know what a prayer is or the difference between right or wrong. They think it makes them kings to be able to take a life and won;t know they did something wrong untill they get stuck in a cell with big, big John.
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encinom
Dec. 19, 2012 at 3:58pmSEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. There is a Constitution. Keep your myths and supersititions out of public schools.
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PubliusPencilman
Dec. 19, 2012 at 4:06pmValiant,
“has forced schools to not teach godly morals or values, thus adopting by defacto an atheist position.”
Nope! You see, right there you betray your silly nonsense. Secularism is not atheism. By your logic, prohibiting an establishment of religion would make this an atheist country! Of course, it’s not. It’s secular.
As I stated above, official prayer in school violates the free exercise clause, as it coerces children to adopt specific religious practices regardless of their actual faiths (or lack of faith). The thing about rights is that individual communities don’t get to pick and chose which rights to extend to people in that community, even when those people are in the minority.
“Only communist nations have absolute centralized control over education.”
Hehe. Now you’re just acting cartoonish. Most developed countries in the world have centralized curriculum standards and education policies. This is just another example of you not knowing what you are talking about.
But hey–feel free to keep calling names like a little child. I’m glad that your Christian values and morality are working out for you!
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PubliusPencilman
Dec. 19, 2012 at 4:12pmRational,
“What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.”
This is a deliberate misquote of President Washington. Not only did he never write or speak this sentence, but in the actual situation it is taken from he is not talking at all about American schools.
http://fakehistory.wordpress.com/2010/04/02/fake-quotations-washington-and-american-schools/
It is, obviously, tremendously disrespectful to misquote President Washington for your own political purposes, so I would thank you to refrain from doing so in the future.
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HellboundandDown
Dec. 19, 2012 at 4:30pmhey, if we had school prayer to Satan it might actually work for a change. He IS willing to make a deal. The Christian God will kill your kids for making fun of bald guys (2 Kings 2:23-24). You never hear of the Devil pulling stunts like that. Youth Obeying Lucifer’s Orders let’s pray in school…just to deities that actually listen!
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Arkansan by Choice
Dec. 19, 2012 at 4:31pmAbsolutely
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From Virginia
Dec. 19, 2012 at 6:38pmBAck when I was in school we had school prayer. We basically prayed a simple little prayer before we ate (God is Great, God is Good, Let us thank Him for our Food – Amen). That was pretty much the extent to our school prayer – except when Apollo 13 happened. Then our teacher had us pray the autronauts would come home safe.
What we absolutely were taught in school was the Golden Rule. We were taught to be good citizens. To be honest. Not to tell lies. Not to steal. To respect our elders. To get along with each other and to share.
That went away in the 70′s and behavior changed almost immediately.
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banjarmon
Dec. 19, 2012 at 7:43pmAbsolutely, With out a doubt, Christianity should be taught! For those that want to learn islam …Go Back to your sand. Remember 9-11!!!
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FoxholeAtheist
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:28pmWithout hesitation, we will sue the crap out of you.
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L.B.Stephens
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:45pmWould a genuine Christian need the endorsement of the school system to carry out his devotion to God and His Son Jesus Christ?
Would he need the blessing of a government to be a Christian?
Why would they need government blessing and approval to be a Christian?
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valiant1776
Dec. 19, 2012 at 10:18pm@publicpecan Secularism is not atheism. Exactly, so anytime a liberal brings a lawsuit demanding a school not sing God Bless America, just for the sole reason it says “God”, they’re misinterpreting the Constitution. The word God does not create, institute or represent any religion. Theism or the belief in a God, is not a religion.
By your logic, every time a President gives a speech and says “God” he’s really just acting like a priest and giving a sermon! That’s nonsense.
The problem is you ignorant liberals have lumped a lot of things under “religion”, which in reality are not religious. The Declaration, though it says Creator, Divine Providence and God, is not a religious writing, but according to today’s liberal understanding, it would be establishing a religion. The Constitution does not prohibit any Government from speaking about values and virtue based on Biblical or other spiritual principles. In fact, the first Amendment specifically protects such actions, so as long as there is not one specific implementation of a religious institution. Jefferson understood this and wanted the Government to be diverse and allow all to participate. He did not, like the liberals do today, censor all, to “include all”. Such fallacy is corrupting our Constitution.
Most European states have centralized curriculum standards and education policies based on socialist ideals. They don’t adhere to the common law, but follow civil law, which is man made law.
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Chet Hempstead
Dec. 20, 2012 at 12:47amAbsolutely not. The kids should learn about all of the world’s major religions in social studies class, and there’s nothing wrong with studying the Bible as literature as an elective English class at the high school level, but teachers leading kids in prayer and instructing from the Bible? No, never. That’s establishment of religion. I can’t even comprehend the twisted logic of people who convince themselves that it’s not establishment of religion. The school shouldn’t even endorse the idea of the existence of God. This is a matter of opinion. They should just be told that some people think He exists and some people don’t. There are enough facts for the kids to learn in their time in school that teachers shouldn’t be telling them what opinions to have.
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DenverKitty
Dec. 20, 2012 at 3:45pmTrapper20: Amen!!
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SgtB
Dec. 21, 2012 at 12:18amThe real question is why we should have to have public schools in the first place. No matter who wins this argument, your children will continue to get a cut-rate education in a manner that you do not approve of. Unless you are a thoroughly crappy parent and want your child to be a dullard who plays video games and works at a used car lot.
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bonesiii
Dec. 21, 2012 at 1:25amSpecifically because the Bible has been proven true, yes. Evolutionists use this basic logic to say, and universally enforce, that evolution must be taught in the schools. Of course, this rests on the false premise that evolution is fact, even though it’s been disproven time and time again. (Learn more at sites like creation.com, etc.) But this is 2012, and we have so much that proves the Bible right. And because the stakes are the highest possible — hell or heaven for our children? — nobody with any sense in their head and love in their hearts at all could deny that it should be taught.
Is it going to be anytime soon? Well, we’ll see. Acknowledging what should be done, and saying what I think WILL happen are two very different things. Popular science has been giving way slowly to it; it’s only a matter of time before either it’s widely accepted, or popularists simply give up on science entirely. So the real question is which route will they take?
Well, the Bible itself warns us that at some point evil WILL seem to win, for a time, here in this fallen world, near the end. So we can’t just assume everything will turn out right again, but we don’t know WHEN the end will come (and can’t know, Jesus said), so it’s quite possible for any number of revivals to happen until then. So we must not give up hope; we must keep faithfully persuading others, knowing that if we keep doing that, more WILL find salvation.
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bonesiii
Dec. 21, 2012 at 1:42am“but teachers leading kids in prayer and instructing from the Bible? No, never. That’s establishment of religion. I can’t even comprehend the twisted logic of people who convince themselves that it’s not establishment of religion.”
Common misconception, and understandable, but basically it’s due to a shift in the popular meaning of the word “religion.” It used to mean “denomination” or sect inside the sphere of biblical belief. The founders were responding to a practice among European nations, such as England, to establish national denominations with specific extrabiblical doctrines set into law.
The Constitution is itself based on the higher authority of God, as expressed through His Word, the Bible. Without that, there is no objective foundation for morality, freedom, or law to begin with. So it cannot logically be a violation of a restriction of establishment of religion to affirm that higher authority that all Constitutional restrictions depend on. Doing so removes the universality of the restriction, making it useless, like plugging in a robot that is programmed merely to unplug itself.
Liberal critics of this have forced themselves into an impossible situation, too, because if you alter the meaning of “religion” to today’s expansive term that’s spelled the same, then there’s no rational basis not to include evolution, and yet usually the very same liberals are violently dogmatic that evolution must be taught as fact.
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PATTY HENRY
Dec. 21, 2012 at 2:41amFor people to try to separate GOD from their “regular life” is like a person wanting to separate breathing from their walking. A generation or two now have been taught that GOD was some “imaginary guy in the sky” and O’Hare managed to get GOD tossed out of schools – miserable witch that she was – so the kids have never heard any balance about GOD. Balance in things like: NO ONE can prove there is NOT a GOD; The Theory of evolution has never been proven – in fact Darwin supposedly died apologizing for the whole “evolution thing – which he never proved” and I’m told he died as a Christian (he wouldn’t be the first).
Evolution isn’t in conflict with GOD, since God owns all things, including Science. We use about 1% of our brains so how could we determine if their was not a GOD ? QUICK!! Tell me how Electricity works, where the power comes from, how they store it !! ? What??? You can’t??? Well, people can’t always explain GOD but those of us who believe in Him certainly know what Life is like without Him.
The design of everything, seasons, our eyes, our bodies, everything points to a Master Planner/Designer. And then, of course, GOD left us the Bible. One story from Genesis to Revelations..not a bunch of different stories…but ONE. Written by the Holy Spirit. Trying to deny GOD is like trying to deny the Sun. We don’t always see it, but we know it’s there. We must offer the “other side” to these kids robbed of the knowledge of GOD!
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bonesiii
Dec. 21, 2012 at 2:51amPatty Henry, actually, it’s in doubt whether Darwin really did say those things. See here:
http://creation.com/did-darwin-become-a-christian
You’re correct that evolution hasn’t been proven; in fact it’s been disproven in many ways, such as universally observed downward changes; at this point even if some upward mutations were possible, they’d be utterly swallowed up by decay, and we are rapidly decaying even as we speak (type :P). Death & suffering in evolution prior to humans IS in conflict with God, though, as the holy God would not use death to create. Anyways, just some nitpicks; I think I agree with the rest. ^_^
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PATTY HENRY
Dec. 21, 2012 at 3:12am@ BONESIII I am such an animal lover, began with DOGS and has extended …I see the relationship between mama bears and her cubs, between animals that are totally non-related (you’ll see YOUTUBE videos of these and they thrill as well as break our hearts). I think the only difference we may have is that this life; this world is a fallen one, tainted by the sin of Satan but the time is coming when Satan is tossed into the eternal fire, when lions lie down with lambs, when all killing and death are over. It didn’t ‘jell’ with me that this loving GOD could create us and then kill us….if this is all there is. Since I know now that this is just a “training camp” a “separate the wheat from the chaft” a “temporary existence to allow us to use our free will and choose” I’m much more at ease about it.
Learning about GOD is not that different than learning about anything…it takes work and attention.
In a strange way – my favorite Bible Verse tells the story: Romans 8:28 All things work together for good for those who love God… the EVIL in this work is the “choice” mechanism that allows us to choose between Good and evil…God and nothing. I think one reason it may be difficult for Americans who’ve never been outside of USA to grasp, but they’d probably benefit from seeing a world where GOD really doesn’t exist to understand how fortunate we are to have the choice. :) As far as DARWIN…I understand that he knew evolution wasn’t viable
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bonesiii
Dec. 21, 2012 at 10:39amHe did say that if his predictions for the fossil record — widespread and obvious transitional forms — turned out to be false, then evolution would… well, I forget how he worded it, but “be not viable” is a fair summary as I recall. And of course, after many years of research into the fossils, they have instead turned out to perfectly fit the biblical account of variation within kinds, with no transitional forms, buried mostly all at once during the global Flood of Noah.
Just one example of the things our kids should be taught in school. :)
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CABERNETQHS
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:44amPONTIPUKE must be sleeping. No way it would let this headline go without an atheist rant.
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ZAP
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:42amRemember”in GOD we thrust? if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land
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PubliusPencilman
Dec. 19, 2012 at 9:19amAnd where does “In God We Trust” appear in the Constitution?
LOTO
Dec. 19, 2012 at 9:30amIts like reading a menu. You know its about food.
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valiant1776
Dec. 19, 2012 at 9:50amThe Declaration of Independence lays at our foundation natural Laws, which are from God. The Constitution further proclaims for the people of the US blessings of Liberty, which come from our Creator. Governments were instituted by men to protect these rights endowed to us by our Creator. Man never gave us these natural rights, nor established any natural Laws, but are bound to adhere to them, and govern accordingly.
No supreme Court Justice can claim to be the final or highest Authority over man, for they did not create man, wherefore they can not rule man, as they have no original jurisdiction over him. All judges are bound to defend and support the truth, for this reason they solemnly take their Oaths with their hand on the Holy Bible, the source of all truth, and acknowledge God as the Supreme Judge of the World.
The Representatives of the United States can not usurp Nature’s God. Blessings of Liberty and Divine Providence are the products of the fundamental truths laid down at our founding. Political institutions must be founded on solid truths, not on social policy or Utopian ideals.
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YouCantExplainThat
Dec. 19, 2012 at 10:26am@valiant1776
Which god is that? Our rights, liberties and freedoms are man-made and hard won by the blood of our forefathers. Not by praying to gods.
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valiant1776
Dec. 19, 2012 at 11:27am@YOUCANTEXPLAINTHAT That is complete nonsense. Our forefathers unanimously declared that we were endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights. The fact that you can’t accept truth and facts implies to me that the rest of your deluded opinions hold no value to any honest discussion. If man gave you your rights, then you have no claim to cry and rebel when man takes them away from you. You’re no patriot, nor do you speak for them, nor can your ignorant opinions change what the founders already wrote and signed.
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PubliusPencilman
Dec. 19, 2012 at 4:14pmValiant,
Notice that, as I said, God is nowhere in the Constitution, and that the Declaration of Independence never mentions anything about a specifically Biblical or Christian God.
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valiant1776
Dec. 19, 2012 at 10:32pm@publicpecan The Constitution says Blessings of Liberty. Every state during the ratification understood that to mean our Rights came from God, and expressed it so in their respective constitutions, e.g., “We the People of _____, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious Liberty… do proclaim and establish this Constitution…”.
The Constitution also states, We the People of the United States. The federal Constitution was representative of the States. The intent of the founders was not to make things redundant, as most things were already asserted in the State Constitution themselves, but to declare just those things necessary for the function of the general Government. In fact, that was Hamilton’s argument as to why a Bill of Rights wasn’t even needed. He argued that the federal Government was only allowed to work within those powers delegated to it in the previous articles. Wherefore, it would not trample our Rights because no power was ever given to it to mess with our Rights. As originally ratified, the Bill of Rights was only a Declaration of certain Rights, and did not grant or prohibit any powers to the federal Government. It was understood, at that time, that the federal Government was only allowed to work within the bounds prescribed to it. And if you read Article 1, Section 8, there’s nothing that would assume an infringement of Rights. Wherefore, Hamilton and Madison argued that the Bill of Rights wasn’t even necessary.
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kcsparky
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:38amYes!! Absolutely!!
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YouCantExplainThat
Dec. 19, 2012 at 10:35amNo!! Absolutely not!!
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Sharon Rose
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:37amMaybe schools are the answer, since it appears that the kids today are NOT being taught about God in the home, and that is where the teaching should begin.
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PubliusPencilman
Dec. 19, 2012 at 9:19amHaha. Yeah, run back to government to solve your problems!
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ChrisDiamond
Dec. 19, 2012 at 12:51pm@PUBLIUSPENCILMAN
That comment stirred feelings of bromance. =P
On the left, they beg for more government even though the government sends cops to bust their heads in for protesting the banks and corporations the government works for. DERP.
On the right, they talk about traditional values, Jesus and being sick of the government intruding into our lives, but want to use the gun of government to force Christianity down every kid’s throat in public schools. DERP.
Voluntaryism: because anything less would be uncivilized.
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RationalLogo
Dec. 20, 2012 at 12:16pmWe do not have God in school anymore, God has been thrown out, but when a mad man comes in and starts killing innocent children and teachers, everyone starts praying and singing hymn’s to God.
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huntinwabbits
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:37amConsidering the first Bible printed in America was printed by Congress clearly stating in the same plain English language we use today that it was intended for the use of our schools… Yes, I would say it would be a real good idea to give prayer and the Bible a podium in the school systems.
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PubliusPencilman
Dec. 19, 2012 at 9:24amHuntinWabbits,
That Bible printing story is nonsense. First of all, that Bible was approved by the Continental Congress, years before the Constitution and the Establishment Clause. At the time, American printing was still in its infancy, and most books were still imported from England. The publisher of this Bible, Robert Aiken, asked Congress to verify the accuracy of his American printed Bible as a way to promote domestic printing–accuracy was important, because often English books were pirated by American printers and mistakes were extremely common.
I hope this clears up your confusion.
TMOverbeck
Dec. 19, 2012 at 9:37amEven if the printing thing was true, that was still the only instance of it… and it took place in 1782, nine years before the First Amendment took effect.
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YouCantExplainThat
Dec. 19, 2012 at 10:31amWhat a ridiculous premise, lol.
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valiant1776
Dec. 19, 2012 at 11:31amAnd then, every signer swore allegiance by taking their Oath with their hands on the Holy Bible. Clearly they were just trying to advance the infancy state of keeping Bibles warm, and not make a statement from where their authority to govern comes.
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PubliusPencilman
Dec. 19, 2012 at 4:22pmValiant,
Swearing on the Bible is customary, and is not actually law.
For example, Article 2, Section 1 on swearing in the President:
“Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:–”I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”"
Nope! Nothing on the Bible! In fact, the Constitution explicitly prohibits religious tests for office:
“The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”
Of course, individuals have the right to swear on the holy book of their choice, and most chose the Bible. You see, that’s the difference between respecting religious freedom and enforcing one’s religion on others! Maybe you should study up on that!
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valiant1776
Dec. 19, 2012 at 10:42pm@publicpecannut You make yourself out to be a total hypocrite. In one instance you say Presidents have a choice of a Bible to swear on, and on the other you prohibit all Bibles in public schools. Liberals want their cake, and to eat to. Their logic is ridiculous.
Swearing on the Bible is customary, and is not actually law, but according to Liberals, that would undermine their concept of separation of church and state. The Bible they say, should be banned from anything to do with public or Government. So your hypocritical statement amounts to nothing.
You’re totally backwards in your logic. What do you say of prayers offered before the beginning of each session in Congress, which were begun since the earliest days of this nation?
I never said there needed to be a religious test in order to be elected, and such discussion has nothing to do with what I said.
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Nunyunuwi
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:36amYes, It used to be a requirement to become a new State in the United States, to teach the values of the Holy Bible, Required. interesting how society has fallen fast…since the values of society have been removed from schools, and humanism / atheism & the moral revolution or aka do what pleases you…selfishness has taken over schools, anti American history is taught, interesting…crime has gone up, immoral behavior gone up, destruction of American Families promoted and has increased… oh Baby killing has gone up more than the Aztec nation…called abortions…. all forms of wickedness has increased. Now these are the facts. It will confuse some who do not understand history, facts, but like to live in fantasy and dream lands… just the 10 commandments alone following them is a huge step towards a civil society. but selfishness is taught by schools, government, all media forms… so we are getting the results. God will not be mocked, you get what you sow… the seeds were planted and now the crop of people are grown, the DNC Mocks God, Denies him many times at their conventions, thats a sign of communism / anti God / Spirituality and a sad thing. You see Humanity is not on Earth to experience Spirituality, were Spirits from Heaven sent to Earth to experience Humanity before we journey on to Eternity on our next path of learning.
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Winedude
Dec. 19, 2012 at 3:15pmNonsense. There is absolutely no good reason to be teaching religion in public schools. I quite frankly especially don’t want to hear anything Christian when school curriculum and policy is discussed. It has no business in our schools and is actually brain-washing. Teaching kids a nonsense about a virgin birth, died on a cross and was resurrected is brain-washing of the most egregious order. Keep religion of all types out of public schools.
“Science is the antidote to the poison of religion”…Adam Smith
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ShyLow
Dec. 20, 2012 at 7:45pmIntelligent design should be a course in school and it does not promote a particular religion
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do_it_all_again
Dec. 20, 2012 at 10:18pm@Nunyunuwi
Excellent post, and i agree 100%
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SREGN
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:30amNo doubt about it. Prayer was outlawed in 1963 and since then crime rates, teenage pregnancy rates, incidence of std’s, and the breakdown of the family have all trended steadily upward. Prior tp that they were flat.
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twinner42
Dec. 19, 2012 at 9:19amI’d like to see the actual statistics of this, and just because two things happen around the same time doesn’t necessarily mean they’re related. Maybe if parents spent more time showing their kids what right and wrong were and what their consequences were instead of leaving it up to a preacher just saying “don’t do this,” they could internalize right and wrong and when/if they doubt their faith they don’t throw their morals away with it.
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kickagrandma
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:28amWe are a CHRISTIAN nation, a miracle, part of GOD’s HOLY plan.
Yes, the BIBLE and prayer do guide us into living in a way pleasing to GOD and in peace with others. We are more loving, caring and giving when GOD is in charge of our hearts, minds and lives. Our lives then become HIS.
This way of life is way outside today’s “norm” which is filled with selfishness, greed and “me first” attitudes and lifestyles.
I would choose Prayer and THE BIBLE in schools. Our nation was founded upon both.
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PubliusPencilman
Dec. 19, 2012 at 9:25amOur nation was founded on religious freedom. Preaching a specific religion in schools is a direct contradiction of this fundamental principle.
ModerationIsBest
Dec. 19, 2012 at 10:14amI love the hypocrisy.
Should teachers lead prayers during school hours? OMG YES!
What about Muslim prayers? OMG NO! INDOCTRINATION!
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Rational Man
Dec. 19, 2012 at 10:46amPatrick Henry
Ratifier of the U.S. Constitution
“It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.”
–The Trumpet Voice of Freedom: Patrick Henry of Virginia, p. iii.
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Locked
Dec. 19, 2012 at 11:04am@Rational Man
That isn’t a quote from Patrick Henry. This is a line from a 1956 piece in The Virginian that was about Patrick Henry, not by him. Henry talks about how spreading his faith is more important than giving away his money, and then the author of the piece makes that quote that you listed.
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JUSTANOTHEROPINION
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:28amThe Bible through out history has been used and or infused into education. It was the primary reader in this Nations earlier years. God needs to be permitted back into public life.
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U4eeeahhh
Dec. 19, 2012 at 1:26pmWe’ve gone beyond McGuffy’s Reader too.
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SpankDaMonkey
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:27am.
It should be so I guess I’ll file a Law Suit……………
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chuckm310
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:21amThe solution and the only solution for the massacres that have occured is to return to the culture our nation was founded on. Our culture started to change when prayers were not allowed in school. When the pledge of allegiance was ignored or taken out of schools. I realize that some of our fore-fathers owned slaves, their bad, but it was the norm at that time. There are no more role models and Jesus Christ was the very best role model for anyone. He died for all, believers and non-believers. Being the human melting pot for the world doesn’t mean we have to abandon our culture and try to placate every minority group that comes along, i.e atheists’s, homosexuals, etc.
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WildschweinJager
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:28amWell said. I agree 100%.
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PubliusPencilman
Dec. 19, 2012 at 9:26amYeah, because obviously no religious person ever killed anyone.
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chucksue351
Dec. 19, 2012 at 9:45amjust the popes
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ModerationIsBest
Dec. 19, 2012 at 10:40am“I realize that some of our fore-fathers owned slaves, their bad, but it was the norm at that time.”
Hahaha wait, did you really just say “their bad” in connection to slavery? Not to mention those so called “Judeo Christian” principles is what lead some people to own slaves and treat women like second class citizens.
Owning other human beings
Treating women horribly
Then cry about being persecuted?
Yup, sounds like religion to me.
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jhrusky
Dec. 19, 2012 at 4:12pm@ chuckm310
“The solution and the only solution for the massacres that have occured is to return to the culture our nation was founded on. Our culture started to change when prayers were not allowed in school … Being the human melting pot for the world doesn’t mean we have to abandon our culture and try to placate every minority group that comes along, i.e atheists’s, homosexuals, etc.”
You betcha. While we’re at it, we should hang and drown and crush to death the witches in our society. We should stone to death homosexuals. We should behead any of those that do not give up and become ‘christian’.
My gosh! This site is the absolute best example out here on the internet why people should NOT turn to “christianity”! You don’t want to follow the Constitution … you want to turn America into a theocracy.
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ohiograndma
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:20amWhat I find so objectionable is the removal of RELIGION from schools. In my dreamworld, we could go back to the Christian dominance of my childhood. But our population is now made up of people of many faiths.I truly don’t want to force my religion on a person of another heritage. It seems in our efforts to avoid promoting Christianity, we have stolen the option of faith from our students and that is so very wrong. While learning the specifics of their faith at church, shouldn’t we be promoting the benefits of faith at our schools? This is the discussion we need to have.
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ModerationIsBest
Dec. 19, 2012 at 10:29amI thought you people wanted religious freedom?
I thought you wanted a limited government?
No you honestly want to have a discussion on whether or not our government should be teaching and favoring one religion over another?
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momrules
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:19amAmerica is a Christian nation. I would agree to Christian prayers like we used to have in school but NEVER to a Muslim prayer. Islam teaches death to Christians, Jews and all others who do not bend to their beliefs. Why would anyone want THAT taught in school?
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Nepenthe
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:25amAmerica is a nation founded on Christian principles but it is not a Chrisitan nation.
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WildschweinJager
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:32am@NEPENTHE
It is a Christian Nation. In God We Trust.
Just because you don’t like it doesn’t “undo” or “reset” or “do over” the facts.
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momrules
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:38amNEPENTHE…………Maybe you are right. America used to be a Christian nation until God was thrown out of the country by the atheists and the liberals. Look how far we, as a nation, have fallen into the sewer since then.
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Locked
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:18am“In a separate question, 64 percent of respondents said that they would support a teacher leading Christian prayers in the classroom, with 36 percent rejecting such a notion (of 1,686 participants).
…
In contrast, 95 percent of those participating said that they would not be supportive of teachers leading Muslim prayers, with only five percent claiming that they would be.”
And this is exactly why prayers should NOT be lead by teachers in school. It’s not that people want schools teaching prayer: they want schools to be teaching Christianity only. Blatant violation of the separation of church and state… but more than that, everyone who decried how poor public schools are should be running scared of the idea that now the government will inject religion into the mix.
I’m of the opinion that we need religion taught in school generally… but ALL religions. Historically, and as an analysis of different belief systems. That’s what we did in my day, and what some places still do today.
Kids can pray in school. They can bring their Bibles to school. They can form religious-based clubs. They can analyze the Bible in class – as a literary or historical work. But a teacher should not be leading prayer, preaching to children, or forcing them to read only one religious work.
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WildschweinJager
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:35amThe USA is a Christian nation. God not Allah.
I pledge allegiance to the flag, of the United States of America.
And to the republic, for which it stands, one nation under God.
Indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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huntinwabbits
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:46amSo, you would be bold enough to suggest that our Founding Father’s themselves were breaking their very own Constitution that they drafted when they printed off Bibles with inscriptions stating that it was for use in our school system. They didn’t print Koran’s or books on how to do the latest dance moves to the sun and water gods. It was the Bible. In the very same school system we’re talking about today. A place where kids came to learn their “three R’s” and moral value based on one nation under God. Might I say Locked, that is a pretty bold assertion if you indeed think so.
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Locked
Dec. 19, 2012 at 9:02am@Wild
“The USA is a Christian nation.”
Blatantly false. Canada is a Christian nation – as per their own founding articles. The US is not. It is a nation of primarily Christians.
@Huntinwabbits
“So, you would be bold enough to suggest that our Founding Father’s themselves were breaking their very own Constitution that they drafted when they printed off Bibles with inscriptions stating that it was for use in our school system.”
One question: do you mean public schools? As far as I know there was not a standard public school system at the time of the foundation of the country; indeed, not even every state had public schools until the 1870s. Keeping religion out of schools came about due to Calvinists and Methodists arguing about it in the 1820s; the compromise was to keep religion in church and education in schools.
But that’s beside the point. The Supreme Court decides constitutionality, and until a case came up about the separation of church and state (Reynolds vs. US, 1879), the scope of the first amendment was undefined. Since then, it has been.
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Comeandtakeit
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:18amI grew up attending a public school in the 1950′s and every school day began with a Bible verse ( always from the Old Testament so it was acceptable to both Christians and Jews), a prayer, the pledge to the falg and singing a patriotic song. Every child knew all the patriotic songs by heart by the time we went through the elementary grades.
We also had a Christmas pageant at Christmas at school with the nativity and a choir singing Christmas carols. No one “objected’, threatened to sue, etc. and this was the normal, accepted practice of the culture. It was good for us. It would be good for our children and grandchildren now. Bring it back. The Constitution says the government should not be interfereing with the free excercise of religion. Let local communities set their own policies.
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PubliusPencilman
Dec. 19, 2012 at 9:27amAnd is it good for Muslim, Hindu and Jewish children too?
Rights_Of_Men
Dec. 19, 2012 at 2:31pmTo Pencilman,Christianity is good for our children in our culture. America has a culture, believe it or not and Christianity is a part of our culture. Although we do accept other people from other cultures we still have our own and we have a right to make it a part of our lives inside and outside of our schools. As far as the question of whether or not the federal government should allow a Christian prayer led by a teacher and bible study being a part of our school curriculum, government shouldn’t have a say in the matter. People keep using the “Separation of Church and State” argument, but it should be separation of education and government. Each individual community should decide what gets taught and doesn’t get taught in their own schools. Leaving this decision in the hands of the people instead of bureaucrats ensures that individual liberty and freedom will continue rather than be destroyed. And to reiterate, Christianity as well as our culture has always and will always have a place on American soil. The only religion I have huge problems with and shouldn’t be allowed in this country due to its violent and hateful nature, is Islam.
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Rights_Of_Men
Dec. 19, 2012 at 2:36pmI also wanted to add that no matter who the following quote is from, it’s brilliant and it rings true.
“It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.”
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PubliusPencilman
Dec. 19, 2012 at 4:25pmRights, (ironic choice of screen name…)
“Although we do accept other people from other cultures we still have our own and we have a right to make it a part of our lives inside and outside of our schools.”
Got it. Jews, Hindus and Muslims are merely “guests” of American culture, not full-fledged Americans like Christians. I should be alarmed by this nonsense, but your bigotry is so silly it’s just funny!
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MDECKER
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:16amWho’s got any better idea? I think we should stick to the Bible in this instance however, avoiding any reference to anyone or anything other than Jesus Christ. We’ve seen, one too many times, the results of praying to a “prophet”. To those that are perpetually offended, we can pray for them as well.
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TMOverbeck
Dec. 19, 2012 at 9:35amIf someone from a Muslim or paganist family wants to say a prayer as well, you can’t forbid them. If we’re gonna allow expression of faith in schools, favoritism for one faith or excluding other faiths from expression would be a bad idea.
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Le Sellers
Dec. 19, 2012 at 11:42amI do.
Get the state out of the school business. From their beginnings in 1852 (as imports from Prussia), government-run, tax-funded welfare schools have pursued their goal: to divorce children from their parents’ religious and moral values. Horace Mann was unashamed of it, and John Dewey even more so.
The Bible (and the Qu’ran, for that matter) require that parents educate their children. Parents, not the state. In fact, grtf-welfare schools require that Christians break at least two of the Ten Commandments: thou shalt not steal (even via taxation), and thou shalt not covet … anything that is thy neighbor’s.
Even if we assume (without a lot of basis for it) that we should render to Caesar whatever Caesar demands in taxes, there is nothing in scripture that leads us into “over rendering”. We are NOT required to render unto Caesar our children.
The cost of a “free” education is too high. Let the atheists have their schools. Get YOUR children out. Teach them at home and in your church. Co-op with a few neighbors, trade teaching English for history. Pay the woman down the street for poetry or Algebra instruction. Give your children some control over their instruction and learning.
Government has no more business running schools than it ever had running churches, and for exactly the same reasons. We excommunicated the state by the mid-XIX, we must EXPEL it by the mid-XXI. We can do it by denying them the fodder they seek. Get your children out, get them o
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Tractorboy
Dec. 19, 2012 at 9:22pm@LE-SELLER, Bravo sir, disban the schools, at this point they do more damage than good, the essence of what our country once was I feel will never be again……..At the countries founding it seemed people were more on the same page, now we have a melting pot of poison, even if they did bring back prayer they would make a joke of it, and I’m sure it would not be done in a way to honor God…….I wish I had the means to get my kids out of the public schools, where they push propaganda and immorality……the secularist, and atheist are creating a real hell on earth…..I wish my family could have nothing to do with them………God Bless brothers and sisters in Christ
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deploy-the-nukes
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:16amYES!! It should be! Screw the modern view of separation of church and state. Screw the atheists,islamists, whoever. Accept our ways and believes or go elsewhere and pound sand up your orifice!
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Sol Invictus
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:44am“Accept our ways and believes or go elsewhere and pound sand up your orifice”
I don’t recognise the quotation – was that part of the sermon on the mount?
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twinner42
Dec. 19, 2012 at 9:11amYeah, screw the first amendment that guarantees freedom of religion!
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libertarianodinist
Dec. 19, 2012 at 3:48pmDeploy-the-nukes,written like a true christian,there are other and older beliefs then your reglion if it that.some time and put the Bible on your summer reading list. Try and stick with it cover to cover. Not because it teaches history; we’ve shown you it doesn’t. Read it because you’ll see for yourself what the Bible is all about. It sure isn’t great literature. If it were published as fiction, no reviewer would give it a passing grade. There are some vivid scenes and some quotable phrases, but there’s no plot, no structure, there’s a tremendous amount of filler, and the characters are painfully one-dimensional. Whatever you do, don’t read the Bible for a moral code: it advocates prejudice, cruelty, superstition, and murder. Read it because: we need more atheists — and nothin’ will get you there faster than readin’ the damn Bible.
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mainer58
Dec. 19, 2012 at 7:54pmLibertar…. How exactly have you proven the bible to be fictional and not historically accurate? Most archeaologists throughout history have relied on the bible for an amazing amount of middle eastern digs. Why? Because of it’s absolute accuracy in the locations of ancient towns, many thought to have been myth. It’s also made quite clear that even if you were to ever read the bible, as a non-believer, it would’nt make any sense to you, you’re spiritually dead.
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NHwinter
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:12amPerhaps posting the 10 Commandments and having classes on morals and values instead of all the PC worthless studies would help greatly. A moment of silence doesn’t hurt anyone. Something has to change!!! Starting with Hollywood, video games, and TV, and especially the news Several years ago the Pope asked Hollywood to make less violent movies, but they were too arrogrant to listen. We need to treat violent mentally disturbed people by separating them from society for the protection of all. God bless them, but separate them.
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WildschweinJager
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:27amWe need a “New American” version of the Bible. One that is written 100% technically accurate to the original Hebrew. The “Thou Shalt Not Kill” commandment is not accurate in many Bibles. The original translation was “Thou Shall Not Murder”.
There is a conflict right there that will cause some problems.
That’s a common problem.
The language is still subject to interpretation as it stands today depending on the version.
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Locked
Dec. 19, 2012 at 10:56am@Wild
“One that is written 100% technically accurate to the original Hebrew.”
This is impossible for a few reasons. First of all, not all of the Bible was written in Hebrew; much of the New testament was written in Greek. Second, there are various changes in every version of the Bible… I remember hearing once that there are some 600,00 differences across all known versions (I forget the source, sorry). There’s some consensus on which versions are “more correct” than others; for example, the story of “Jesus and the adultress” is not part of the original Bible story (with its famous quote: “Go forth and sin no more”), but was added later. We only know that because the oldest versions don’t have it. But even the oldest (mostly complete) versions are about 300 years after Christ’s death.
“The “Thou Shalt Not Kill” commandment is not accurate in many Bibles. The original translation was “Thou Shall Not Murder”.”
True, but “murder” is undefined. Kill is pretty cut and dry. But what constitutes murder? Does warfare count? What about non-combatants who are killed by cross-fire? Is it murder to kill the children of a country at which you are at war? The Old Testament suggests it is fine to commit genocide – when sanctioned by God.
“The language is still subject to interpretation as it stands today depending on the version.”
And it always will be. Take into account slang words that might be used. Regional terms. Long-lost references.
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DLV
Dec. 19, 2012 at 2:03pmLocked- I find it hard to believe in your language in anyway that you are a Christian. You seem like a smart guy so go educate yourself a little. For instance god can take a life when he wants or lives. If there is an evil nation and he wants it gone don’t question the way in which he wants it gone since he is the perfect judge. I’m taking an ancient near east class now final tomorrow and I know some of the horrible stuff they did. Example the Phoenicians sacrificed kids in ceremonial fires to appease their gods. I would want them gone as well if I were a perfect god. Many times he tests the Israelites obedience. Come on you should know this. The way you talk implies you really dont want Jesus to come back and destroy evil and instead continue to be ruled by sinful humans. You really confuse me
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Locked
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:00pm@DLV
“Example the Phoenicians sacrificed kids in ceremonial fires to appease their gods. I would want them gone as well if I were a perfect god.”
So as a perfect god, in order to punish a people that has child sacrifice, you would demand all of those people be massacred instead? All men, women, and children? INCLUDING the children who are to be sacrificed?
You’d make a lousy perfect god, in my view.
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Locked
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:03pm@DLV
Actually, answer the questions.
“But what constitutes murder? Does warfare count? What about non-combatants who are killed by cross-fire? Is it murder to kill the children of a country at which you are at war?”
Because the answers are not in the Bible. We’re commanded to not kill (or “murder”), but God demanded it be done in the past. I can think of a logical reason why the early Jews would have added a passage into the Bible to justify genocide, despite having a hard line against killing/murder. I wonder if you can come to the same conclusion?
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Locked
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:38pmOh, and one last one:
“For instance god can take a life when he wants or lives.”
True! However, this wasn’t a case of God taking lives: it was a command for His chosen people to take lives in His name. If God wanted to kill them, He could have… but instead He used mortal armies to do the dirty work, while having a blanket commandment against doing just that?
Huh… starts to make you wonder why God would choose contradictory orders and condone mass murder but not lift a finger Himself… the obvious answer is pretty obvious here!
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WildschweinJager
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:11amYes!
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jcldwl
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:09amYes they should.
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Eastinfection
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:09amIt would be nice if individuals chose this for themselves…
but it shouldn’t be institutionalized as part of the syllabus.
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DonnieD
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:08amThe first 10,000 Bibles were printed by congress to be haned out at schools so the children could learn morales. It was not untill the 60′s where it started being attacked. Lets look at kids today compared to eariler. Enough said it speaks for itself.
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blanco5
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:07amWatch out! The koran will be offered too. Do we want this?
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huntinwabbits
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:40amYou don’t think it already is? Take a look around. Anything and everything is offered in our schools…except things mentioning Jesus Christ.
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CABERNETQHS
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:42amAn honest comparison or examination of religion is healthy, in my opinion. It’s the void we now have that scares me.
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Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Dec. 19, 2012 at 8:05amIn my opinion, yes.
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termyt
Dec. 19, 2012 at 9:07amIt is simple fact that America was founded on Christian thought and theory. As much as atheists deny it, the concepts of equality, reason, and logic were all nurtured by Christians. Certainly, the Church also failed to support those ideals at times.
I don’t really want public school teachers teaching theology (unless they are theology teachers) or leading prayers. I do, however, want them to be who they are – Christian, Muslim, Atheist, whatever. And I want them to be able to express themselves as that. Forcing anyone to hide their beliefs because of the platform they are standing on flies in the face of our founding principles.
Most importantly, and where we have gone dangerously wrong, is the idea that we each must come to our own understanding of morality. That is bogus. Morality is taught. If you don’t teach it, well you are getting a glimpse of a few decades of not teaching it in our society today.
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An_American_Thinker
Dec. 19, 2012 at 5:11pmVery well said TERMYT!
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