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UPDATE: Two Firefighters Shot and Killed in NY While Responding to Christmas Eve Blaze — Appears to Have Been a ‘Trap’
A screen shot of the fire from WHAM-TV.
WEBSTER, N.Y. (TheBlaze/AP) — Four volunteer firefighters responding to an intense pre-dawn house fire were shot Monday morning, two fatally, leading to a shootout between a suspect and police in suburban Rochester, N.Y., police said. It’s a fire that police acknowledge appears to have been a “trap,” and spread to 7 houses by the time the crisis was contained.
“One or more shooters” fired at the firefighters after they arrived shortly after 5:30 a.m. at the blaze near the Lake Ontario shore, just east of Rochester, Town of Webster Police Chief Gerald Pickering said.
There was no active shooter at the scene later Monday morning, according to Monroe County Sheriff Patrick O’Flynn. The first Webster police officer who arrived on the scene exchanged gunfire with the shooter, Flynn said, but he had no other information on the shootout.
In a news conference early Monday afternoon, Webster Police Chief Gerald Pickering said that the shooter is believed to be deceased from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head.
One of the victims was both a volunteer firefighter and a lieutenant on the local police force. The chief broke down while reading his name: Mike Chiapperini. In fact, Chiapperini was the public information officer and regularly appeared on the news. His most recent appearance was just last week:
Mike Chiapperini
Public records show the property where the initial fire started belongs at least in part to 62-year-old William Spengler, who was convicted of manslaughter in the 80s and served time in prison before being released in 1998.
This is the photo of the suspect being displayed on local news outlets:
(Photo via WHAM-TV)
At a 2:00 ET press briefing, authorities identified Spengler as the suspect and provided more background information. The victim of the manslaughter charge was Spengler’s grandmother, and Fox News Insider relates that he beat her to death. Authorities said he served nearly 18 years in prison and had an “uneventful” parole.
“He laid in wait with armament and shot first responders,” Pickering said, but police haven’t yet determined a motive.
He was not legally allowed to own firearms.
You can watch live video from the scene here.
The local paper The Democrat and Chronicle of Rochester has more on the initial incident:
At least two Webster firefighters are dead, and three houses on Lake Road continue to burn after a gunman open fired on firefighters who responded to an early morning fire.There are no active shooters at the scene, according to a news conference held by Sheriff Patrick O’Flynn.
The fire broke out at 5:45 a.m. at 191 Lake Road on the Irondequoit Bay side of the street.
The gunman open fired on the first firefighters to respond, striking one in the backside. Strong Memorial Hospital confirmed another firefighter was being treated, but it is not clear if he was shot or injured in the fire.
Webster Fire Marshal Rob Boutillier said it is not clear how many other firefighters were hit.
One firefighter who was shot managed to get away from the scene and over the outlet bridge to his car. He was taken by ambulance to Strong Memorial Hospital where he is listed in satisfactory condition. His name has not been released.
“We looked out the window and we saw the SWAT team and everyone around,” one local resident told the paper.
​This is a breaking story. Updates will be added.
In CONTROL, Glenn Beck presents a passionate, fact-based case for guns that reveals why gun control isn’t really about controlling guns at all; it’s about controlling us. Find out more HERE.
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Comments (222)
banjarmon
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:57amNY, who would have thunk??
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ashestoashes
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 11:31amHow many innocent people do the illuminati have to kill before you allow them to take your arms..Sheesh..
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G-WHIZ
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 11:52amOh…QUICKLY NOW!! it’sa gunz violence story!! MSM will be on top-O’-it right-a waay!! Godda feed the “crisis” of gunzacontrol to make all citizens unable to fight-back when the sharialaw comes to town!! If Germnany didn’t have their NAZI-MSM to keep them asleep, if the local citizens were allowed to have their weppons(no GUNS OR LARGE-KNIVES)…King-HITLER would have never bein allowed to takeover!
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RJJinGadsden
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 11:56amThey are now saying that a police officer was wounded as well and that the shooter is dead. There will be a presser soon from local authorities.
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rangerskippy
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 12:03pmTake note,
When black panthers set up an ambush, killing responding cops (in a mosque run by Louis Farakan), Charlie Rangel showed up, ordered the cops to leave, while the killers were still in the building.
The MSM never touched it, and let Rangel and Farrakhan get away with covering up a murder.
The MSM is dead set on taking away high capacity rifle magazines, knowing there are very rare to ever be used in a crime. They want to disarm the law abiding, and could care less about the law breakers.
It was not even proven that the latest shooter in CT used high capacity mags. As a matter of fact, for three days, we were told he was found with two pistols, and a rifle was found in the back seat of his car. Then, the coroner declared all wounds had to have been made by a rifle…. How convenient.
Blacks make up 12.5% of the population, but do half the nation’s murders. If we lowered black murder rates to the same as whites, we would drop the nation’s murder rate by almost 40%, and save a whole lot of black lives, but no so much as a peep from the libs or the MSM on these numbers.
Not one mention of the MSM about Kevin Jennings. He is Obama’s pick for safe school czar. his claim to fame was teaching homosexuality to school children. What did he do to make our schools safe? Notice the MSM will not mention his name, but they love beating up the NRA. The NRA was not created to keep our schools safe, they exist to fight for our Bill of Rights and the 2nd A
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charles116
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 12:04pmThis is UPSTATE NY not NYC. You’re so confused. This is country not inner city.
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yougottabekidding
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 12:09pmG-WHIZ
I’m not real sure about msn they were volunteers not union members.
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Glennda
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 12:10pmRANGER SKIMPY . . . “As a matter of fact, for three days, we were told he was found with two pistols, and a rifle was found in the back seat of his car. Then, the coroner declared all wounds had to have been made by a rifle…. How convenient.”
Yes, I smell a conspiracy alright. Obviously the NRA got to the scene first and squelched any knowledge of the rifle being used. But they couldn’t hide it forever and the truth eventually came out. Guess what, its easy to prove which bullets killed those kids. I’ll cover any bet you’re willing to make that the rifle wasn’t left in the back seat.
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RJJinGadsden
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 12:22pmDORA/CHUCKY, For once I have to agree with you. I used to live in Upstate, NY and am somewhat familiar with this area.
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RJJinGadsden
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 12:23pmWANGO/PANTS, LOL, and you are in cahoots with the Brothers Grimm when it comes to that NRA Fairy Tail!
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gonnaneedabiggerboat
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 12:43pmDo not lump Rochester ( or the rest of Upstate) in with NYC. They could not be more different.
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DIgnified
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 12:48pmBlack panthers and illuminati? Are you idiots for real? Is there anything in a Republican brain that doesn’t require ridiculous leaps of faith and ignoring of common sense and assuming that Republicans are never at fault for anything?
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LeadNotFollow
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 12:51pmNew York is a cesspool of subhumans.
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Brettfan
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 12:59pmGun Free Zone!!
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Bill S.
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 1:05pmThe “STORY” will be changed 3 to 4 times as it fits the drive by media’s agenda on the gun control/confiscation. Evert time an instance like this comes up there’s never a witness or a criminal survivor to tell the actual tale. Doesn’t anybody think this is kind of strange? These guns seem to have minds of their own (very heavy sarcasm).
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wantsfreedom
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 1:05pmReally illuminate?
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nyc_23
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 2:35pm@Yougottobekidding,
What does it matter if they were in a union or not. They were providing a service, union or not & got killed. 1 of the members was a union member, does that make it OK. Morons ike you and the morons from the left are no different.
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rangerskippy
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 3:14pmGlennda
So the NRA gets called to the scene of a shooting? When did that start happening?
it never happens, and never will.
Within minutes, the gun grabbing libs were spouting their anti NRA stuff
Why is it that you are so shy to speak about the black on black violence? Blacks make up 12.5% of the population and do half of the nations murders.
Do you want to pontificate on that one? Do you realize the black on black violence is intrinsically tied to liberal welfare programs?
If we can drop black murder rates to the same as white murder rates, then we will drop the nations murder rates by almost 40%./ What say you?
Last year, only 320 murders nationally were done with rifle. Why is it that libs are so hell bent in going after rifles then? More people were murdered in America with knives than rifles.
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KevINtampa
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 3:29pmSo is it a drug problem, a gun problem, or a money problem?
Let’s ask Mr Spengler. (I know this is a different man, but when the name was released I about **** a brick. For a brief moment I thought the man was CFO of Smith & Wesson
http://boston.citybizlist.com/article/smith-wesson-holding-appoints-william-f-spengler-chief-financial-officer-0
He also had experience in pharmaceuticals:
He has a strong background in finance and accounting, having served as Vice President of Finance at Black and Decker for five years and as Chief Financial Officer of four publicly traded companies, including Guilford Pharmaceuticals prior to its acquisition by MGI PHARMA, Inc. He joined MGI PHARMA as Senior Vice President, International & Corporate Development in 2005 and was subsequently named CFO in early 2006.
Interesting coincidence IMO.
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KevINtampa
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 3:44pm@RANGERSKIPPY
I wouldn’t expect a reply from a liberal so I’ll at least tackle a bit of that, specifically about why rifles are being targeted, pardon the pun as it wasn’t intended.
They have to get the rifles first because rifles are better at defending against a group of people. A rifle extends your attack point, so approaching a refiled defense means you will undoubtedly suffer setbacks (casualties) before you are close enough even for conversation. AR-15 and AK-47 style rifles are particularly effective against defending against a group of men coming to violate your rights. The high capacity, fire rate, and extended distance (compared to a pistol) is what has made this style of weapons systems so effective. Up close or at a distance they are formidable. A pistol sucks at range and a bolt action suck up close. AR-15 systems and the like excel at both distance and close quarters.
My point is, it’s easier to grab pistols from the populace once you’ve removed their ability to hold a serious rifled defense. Rifles first so you can take the handguns later. Does that answer your question as to Big Brother’s interest to take rifles now instead of handguns or knives even though more people are killed by those two items than rifles?
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700P
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 3:57pmMaybe the the solution is to T-wall off the northeast to protect the rest of the country from people like him and Adam Lanza.
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Glennda
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 4:07pmRANGER SKI<PY . . . So, the NRA has to wait to be called before they show up somewhere? Now who's being naive?
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The-Monk
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 4:41pmHi Wango,
For your next name I would suggest “Glenn Duh”….
Glennda
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 4:50pmDuh Monk . . . a real dazzler, there. Predictably derivative. I’m thiiiiiiiis close to being flattered by your imitation.
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rangerskippy
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 4:57pmGlennda -
Where the heck did you go to school?
The NRA is a lobby group, not federal, state, or local law enorcement.
If after a shooting, the NRA sent reps, they would not be allowed to enter the crime scene. They have no jurisdiction anywhere in the country.
The NRA is a lobby group that fights four the second amendment rights. The ACLU is also a lobby group.
Dude, you need to lay off the MSNBC. They got you suckered hard.
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rangerskippy
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 5:00pmGlenn Duh
Still waiting on your answer concerning black on black murder.
Why is it the libs like you refuse to tackle the subject?
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FreedomPurveyor
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 5:07pmGlennda, I’m pretty sure he is referring to the fact that the NRA is not called in any official capacity to make determinations about crime scenes. Regardless of whether the rifle was used or not, it wouldn’t be illegal with an assault weapons ban, because it isn’t an assault rifle.
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oldguy49
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 5:51pmearly release
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WATER-THE-TREE
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 6:45pmI believe we are witnessing all of the Manchurian plants in our society finally unleashed. It is bizarre that SO MANY crazies are all of a sudden shooting up the country. And what they are shooting, people trying to watch a movie, then innocent children, and then firefighters. Teachers and firefighters, some of Bammy’s favorites. I have a feeling that this is just the beginning, this CRAZY crap will continue until they confiscate our guns. We will be lucky if when all of this is over we will have access to soda straws and spitballs.
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WATER-THE-TREE
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 6:49pmThe MSM will love the fact that in the call to the police that the firefighter used the word “assault rifle” in the conversation.
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undrprsr
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 7:39pmDidn’t this guy know its Illegal for a felon to own a firearm?
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The-Monk
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 8:05pmHowdy Glenn Duh,
Now what did you do this time? I wish I had seen it. Must have been a doosey. I don’t see anything bad in your… well, Pants last 10 posts so it must have been deleted. Damn…. that would have been a nice Christmas present for me to read. I wish they would leave the nasty posts up so all could see them. Maybe the other trolls could learn what “not to post”? Nawwwww, trolls are too stupid to learn from the mistakes of others and for that mater… even from their own.
Have a nice Christmas… ah, Glenn Duh is it now? LOL
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Patriot Z
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 9:17pmthat is sad. NY needs to get with the program and make guns harder to get. they should have a law that states criminals cant buy guns legally. then stuff like this wouldnt happen…….oh wait! These guys wont be home for christmas because of this *****. id rather no gun laws than any more stupid gun l;aes thast render people defensless
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MIBUGNU2
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 9:43pmThe State of New York wants to take everyone’s guns..
This will leave all the bad guys like this AH well armed.
Prayers for the Firefighters lost and injured by this
madman..Killed his Grandmother with a hammer and
this creep was out walking the streets ???What the
HELL is wrong with this State ???? good gawd !!!!!!!
Used to treat killers to a seat in “Old Sparky”, What’s
Happened ??? Take my gun and let killers loose…..
Good Job New York !!!! Merry Christmas
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yougottabekidding
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 9:44pmnyc_23
Speaking of morons maybe you should get some education, but being from NY = that maybe impossible. You are an idiot beyond belief!
What I eluded to was the fact that msn will report or not report, if it fits their agenda. My comment was a denigration of msn, only that. You ignorant sob
I know the one fire fighter was also a paid fire fighter, but he was there as a volunteer. THERE IS NOTHING ok here stupid!
No one said that or implied that and believe me no one knows more about volunteer fire fighters and their sacrifice. I live it every time my son goes on a call. So you can take your horrendously stupid thoughts and big mouth that runs over and shove it ! You have no idea
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Walkabout
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:40pmRochester is not a mega-city. I would not have thought it.
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Walkabout
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:42pmcharles116 /Dora
Rochester has about 210,000 people while Monroe county has 744,000 people. Granted it is not a huge metropolis, but it is not country either. Please try to keep up.
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Walkabout
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:47pmSo I assume that Spengler is at least (or was) 36 years old. I also assume that he was unhappy with how the rest of his life was going to turn out.
I like to know why he was imprisoned & what his gang affiliations were. I also like to know how got the gun. Was it his mothers, did he steal it or did he buy it off the black market?
No Money, no honey, passing age 40, no prospects, life sucks, so gonna take it out on the world. It is an assumption I know, but we will see.
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Walkabout
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:52pmGlenda,
First, no matter what name you pick, we know who you are. So why don’t you stick to a name.
Second, you pick the weirdest names. Is that for shock value? We has a society have been thru so much I doubt we can be shocked. We might be disgusted, but not shocked. After all we have shock jocks like Howard Stern. Or are you advertising you orientation?
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RJJinGadsden
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 7:17amHORSE_PRANCER/WANGO/PANTS/GLENNDUH, I’m with WALKABOUT on this. Why such an effeminate name this time? The pink and yellow diaper avatar was more than goofy enough.
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WarMunger_Al
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:35amwalkabout-
Rochester has a really high murder rate, higher than NYC. This is just more proof that gun control is stupid and criminals will always violate the law.
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JustaFacts
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:55amWhy does this site have so many insensitive racial comments? Does this help make you feel better?
Be respectful, and when others spill bigotry the rest of us should speak up against it.
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afishfarted
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 11:03amwhat the hell are you talkin’ about??
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Warphead
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 11:08amIt doesn’t matter who did this. What matters is that when the perps are caught the trial be speedy and the screaming be long.
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kaydeebeau
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 11:15amactually Warp – it is better is there are no perps left alive to bother with a trial for…
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The_Jerk
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 11:55am“insensitive racial comments?”
Where?
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yougottabekidding
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 12:01pmAfter the news conference “the shooter is dead” Thank you!
As the parent of a Fire Fighter I love that bit of news.
And I’m sure they killed the weapon that did it too.
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TommyandtheCommieKillers
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 12:03pmLooks like some loser that pastes the same comment all over The Blaze. Go away, get a life or be miserable some where else.
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DIgnified
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 12:59pm@just while there is NP real racial comments on this thread, save done idiotic black panther crap, this site is attractive to paranoids who fell their mythology and pierced superiority is threatened. It is apparent to anyone with an education that their entire being is based on lies they were told and they tell to themselves. ‘It’s always someone elses fault’ , ‘Republican arrested for voter fraud? Must be a socialist plant’, ‘we are all that matters’ , etc. It’s pathetic.
On a side note, the south got hit hard by the economy and is starting to recover. Factories are moving in and hiring. Great. They also are hiring them at minimum wage, which means theyre getting more than they’re worth so that’s awesome too. More money for tall cans, gold leafing their sciencefiction life guide and chrome for their pickup.
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226crimsontrace
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 3:11pmMost of you dolts are missing the point, Grandma’s life is only worth 18 years in New York. The sentencing judge, the bureau of prisons, and the prosecuter, are all responsible for this killing. I detest capital punishment because all it does is enrich lawyers during the 15 year batle to end the life of a murderer. I like my state, Life, with no possibility of parole.
Bet my Mom would be suspicious if I took her to NY. (hope I never end up in that sewer)
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WATER-THE-TREE
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 9:04pmIf what they say is true about this man murdering his grandmother with a hammer, WHY IS HE STILL ALIVE TO HAVE COMMITTED THIS CRIME!!??
And by the way the hammer used to kill his grandmother was a high capacity hammer.
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Free_Thought
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:49amThese people were just protecting their property from intruders. Is that not the law?
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WarMunger_Al
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 11:38amnot in NY, you have no rights in NY. These guns I bet are illegal as well
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Bluedog78
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 2:07pm@free, So, you condone killing volunteer firefighters because they dared to go onto private property to put out a fire? Yea right, more like a left-wing troll trying to make conservatives look bad. And if you are for real, be sure to let the local fire department know which trailer is yours so they won’t show up when it burns you alive!
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TRILO
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:49amSad, but this is not the first time firefighters have been shot. In some neighborhoods they need police escorts. This is just further proof that an evil darkness is falling over our country.
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Minnaloushe
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:44amI say death penalty — just like it would be had they shot an officer of the law.
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OlefromMN
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:55amUnfortunately NY does not have the death penalty. When the shooter is finally caught they will spend time at taxpayer’s expense and most likely be eligible for parole at some point.
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Mil-Dot
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 11:09amDeath penalty for killing a govt guy but if a reg Joe got popped you wouldn’t blink an eye would you? Their lives are no more valuable than anybody else.
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zman173rd
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 3:19pm@ Mildot; I hadn’t thought of that. We put those who serve and protect above the one they serve and protect. San with most “Elected” officials. They get body guards while in the streets and protected homes paid for by… Seems a bit off kilter. How did we get here? In Montana we had a governor (three back) that would do his own shopping at Wal-Mart. Out last governor gave away candy in front of his home on Halloween. Cops would be directing traffic but no problems ever. Now it looks like the devil’s at work everywhere. I believe in GOD the greater power but I’m not a bible thumper in any way. But you gotta believe something at work here that makes this COINCIDENCE of shooting deaths normal. I shore did maik a mess oh this posting.
Hasppy HanuRmaKwanzMas
hahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EX73rYxDpvUunkah !
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Cavallo
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:36amWe must know the make and caliber of the weapon used so that it may be properly demonized, then legislatively banned. Appropriate liberty organizations will be cajoled and harassed to accept responsibility for a criminal act that has no relation to them or any of its members. Every opportunity for the State to gain more power and control must not be neglected, so sayeth our Messiah, the One, Obama.. may peace be upon him.
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catsmtrods
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 12:09pmHad to wonder if it was on of them “sniper rifles”! You know they have got to go on the demon list!
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perry1980
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:33amHow is that Gun Control working out for you Mayor Doomberg
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JustaFacts
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:42am@PERRY1980
I suppose you mean Mayor Bloomberg? The problem is, this happened in upstate New York and Bloomberg is the Mayor of New York City, which is about 3 hours away from this incident.
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randy
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 11:00amActually it’s about 8 Hours away from NYC……
Just outside Rochester, NY, 20 miles from me…
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Mil-Dot
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 11:11amBloomberg, Cuomo, same type of creatin.
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Mil-Dot
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 11:12amCretin, sorry.
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Chromo200
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:32amI think Eric Holder should unleash his storm troopers and go from house to house starting from the East Cost and collect every gun and bullet people have and then we will not have any more shootings. We will all live in peace and harmony. We will all be safe and happy.
By the way Holder should confiscate all cars, truck and buses to because they kill people. Oh don’t forget booze, 16 oz fountain drinks, and meat.
Also if you are single you get to live in a studio apartment, if you are a couple and no kids, one bed room house/Apt, and if there are kids involved, the State can take them and house them in institutions so as to make them “better” and more obedient about not wanting guns.
Enough with the sarcasm, and back to reality .. The revolution will come soon.
The funny part of all this that we all are going to die someday. Even if we learn to clone our selves, we are going to die no matter what side of the political spectrum we are on or how high on the food chain we are. I would rather be free and be self sufficient and independent than depend on a gov’t to do everything for me.
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dave928
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 11:52amChrome, the Revolution can’t come soon enough for me. I’ve been saying it’s coming for several years now. I’m totally convinced that a total do-over is the only answer. During this process, a lot of our societal problems will be taken care of too. The criminals are only using this to push the issue and try to capitalize on the outrage over the school shooting in CT. They know that if the government bans guns, it’s only going to take guns out of the hands of people like you, me, and the other millions of law abiding gun owners.
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branch manager
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:32amThe evil white people are at it again.
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1776freedomofspeech
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:37am@Branchmanger
The white man has gotta go, except, who is gonna pay for my free Obama phone and such?
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branch manager
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:54am@1776 That’s just it…the reasoning of the commie libitards doesn’t add up! It’s like living in bizzaro world.
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EJ1979
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:32amOne has to wonder how much more innocent blood will be spilled over the holiday season to push the gun agenda?
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Cavallo
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:58amYes, because remember that it is liberty that brings us misery and death, and it is centralized fascist control that brings us utopia.
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Bobolinsky
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:31amI honestly hope it’s a case of arson intended to cover up a crime scene and the firefighters were shot in order to drive them away from the building so that the evidence would have more time to burn. SOMETHING more than someone taking potshots at firefighters.
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TJexcite
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 11:05amMurder – Suicide by fire and then by cop. But the they showed up to early.
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Polarized America
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:25am…anyone seen my original post ? ..ok maybe i was a little too graphic about the death penalty, but this is a good reason to have one …..so,..sorry i guess
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OlefromMN
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:23amI would look at the homeowner. This may be a case in which they wanted to make sure the house burned to the ground for insurance or other purposes.
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txannie
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:21amThought they had strict gun controll laws in New York…didn’t seem to work…Wonder if it was only the criminals that don’t give a rat’s naked tail about ANY laws that had them…..but the law abiding rescue emergency responders didn’t….hmmm….but….we do have to remember that this was in New York where everybody knows better than any other “hick” what America needs…
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1776freedomofspeech
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:34am@TXAnnie
I am sure Mayor Blommberg will come up with the final solution.
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JustaFacts
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:48am@1776FREEDOMOFSPEECH
Bloomberg is the Mayor of New York City. I don’t think many of you understand that this took place in the suburb 3 hours away from NYC.
It’s an honest mistake, but please read the article or quickly google check information before you post so you don’t come across like a low-information poster.
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1776freedomofspeech
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 11:38am@JUSTTHEFACTS
Hey, don’t confuse me with the facts….
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1776freedomofspeech
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 11:45am@JUSTAFACTS
The Governor of NY State will unveil his “final soluion”.
Waiting……to put on a blackshirt
Waiting……smashing you windows and kick in your doors
Waiting……behind the Law
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gonnaneedabiggerboat
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 12:50pm@justafacts….
Rochester is most definitely NOT a “suburb of NYC about 3 hours away.” It is closer to 6-7 hours away…and could not be more different. Very rural, lots of hunters…NOT like NYC in many ways.
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pwatkins
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 3:31pmWe all know Mayor Bloomberg is the mayor of NY City but that didn’t stop him from putting his two cents worth solution in on the Conn. killing now did it?
May God be with all this Christmas and the days to come.
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afishfarted
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:19amIt has to be the guns fault, right? This happened in another state that has strict anti-gun policies. And we know everyone – including the criminal element – obeys all gun restrictions, right? So it HAS to be the guns fault.
Prayers for the unsuspecting families
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ares338
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:18amBan Firefighters!
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FlagWavingPatriot
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 12:02pmIf we banned fires we wouldn’t need to ban firefighters.
Fires kill a lot more kids than guns do. Just ban fires. It’s that simple.
Fires don’t even have a Constitutional amendment. Should be a piece of cake.
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TIME_2_END_THE_PAUL_CAMPAIGN_IN_12
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:15amWebster used to be a fairly nice area (at least back in the late 70′s early ’80′s). Many in the town worked over at Xerox and It was a nice bedroom community which was a pretty good distance from the crap infested City of Rochester…
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RepubliCorp
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 11:09amXerox? or do you mean Kodak
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TIME_2_END_THE_PAUL_CAMPAIGN_IN_12
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 11:27amNo… KODAK was out in the Greece area just outside of Rotten’chester…
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TheePolitinator
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:08amHmm another shooting incident in yet another leftist state.
Things that make you go hmmm.
Tragic but more fuel. here it comes folks!!!
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ozchambers
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:22amWe need to ban leftist states. No, better yet, we need to “protect” leftist states from dangerous gun loving states and the lunatics that choose to live there. Anyone here recall the movie “Escape From New York”?
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grimmster
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:38am@Thepolitinator.
What really makes me go hmmmm,is the story change about the Sandy Hook massacre.The original police report stated he had 2 hand guns, and was buzzed into the school.The next report, both these by police by the way, stated, he had a ar15, and shot his way through a door to get into the school,and in addition to 2 handguns and the ar, he also had a shotgun.So which story is the lie?There are more details in both stories that dont jive,and my question is, why no one in the press, or law inforcement ,are questioning it……..
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Mil-Dot
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 11:16amGrim,\
Make no mistake. The govt is lying about the event. Some type of scam is being played on the American people. Some kind of setup. They are so incompetent and corrupt they can’t even get their lies straight.
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TrueSoundsOfLiberty
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 12:48pmActually the red states have gun violence pretty much locked up. The top 10 states for gun violence in 2011 are…
1. Louisiana 8.8 murders per 100,000 residents
2. South Carolina 4.76
3. Maryland 4.67
4. Missouri 4.59
5. Michigan 4.55
6. Mississippi 4.46
7. Tennessee 3.81
8. Georgia 3.77
9. Arkansas 3.74
10. Pennsylvania 3.69
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ozchambers
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 3:07pm@TSOL: As I’m sure you are aware several on your list are blue states, but more importantly, I bet 95%+ of the gun violence occurred in the counties and areas that voted blue.
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grimmster
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 6:31pm@Mil-Dot.
Hopefully before long, we the people can rid our selves of that incompitence……..
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dissentnow
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:07amMore ammunition for the anti-gun crowd.
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qpwillie
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:01amCould it be that some stored bullets are overheating and going off?
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1776freedomofspeech
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:06amYes they magically hit the firefighters.
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qpwillie
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:12am@1776freedomofspeech
I am very much pro 2nd amendment. I’m just looking at possibilities.
If a box of bullets were going off in all directions, yes, some of them could hit somebody. I don’t claim to know what happened.
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deltaecho
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:14amGotta be a shooter.
Cartridges will explode in a fire, but since they’re not in a chamber the bullet won’t go far or nearly as fast.
Catch this murderer.
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Displacedsoutherner
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:16amWhen bullets not encased in a barrel “cook off” Newtonian physics takes over and the part with the lesser mass, ie the casing, gets the brunt of the acceleration while the heavier bullet gets relatively little. While the casing may get going at a high rate of speed, without the focus of the barrel the speed is much less than anything seen from firing a gun. Add the low mass and random flight path and you have more of a nuisance than a deadly threat.
Loaded guns in a fire are a different story and the firing as a result of heat vs a deliberate trigger pull is of little consequence if the barrel is pointed your way.
My bet is that the precision with which 4 firefighters were hit would indicate a deliberate act rather than random bullets flying from loaded firearms in the fire.
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ozchambers
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:17amwhen a bullet explodes that is not chambered, the bullet typically stays in place and the casing is propelled, but a flying casing is not nearly as dangerous as flying lead. Someone was most certainly firing a weapon at the firemen.
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Shamrock241
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:19amIf the Myth Buster show i saw was correct than bullets not in a chamber of a gun but simply laying about when detonated will not generate the same foward force and be non lethal.
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qpwillie
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:23am@Displacedsoutherner
Thanks for that helpful info. And yes, with more information coming in, it is pretty certain that somebody was deliberately shooting.
I did a lot of hunting in my younger days but I wasn’t sure how the bullets would react in a fire.
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RJJinGadsden
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:29amQPWILLIE, Yep, will sound like loud popcorn, but rounds in a fire are just not as dangerous as you might make it sound. A bullet does not just explode instantly fire capably launching it’s projectile at it’s otherwise perceived speed. Gun powder is designed to rapidly burn causing rapidly expanding gases to launch a projectile while enclosed inside of a gun. This enclosure controls the expansion of these gases directing it and they projectile to move in one direction. In a fire a bullet will not be in a controlled atmosphere and the gases will expand in essentially all directions. The projectile will lose any ballistic capabilities. Getting hit by one of these projectiles will likely hurt, but unlikely will it kill like this. In the humble opinion of somebody who has studies ammunition and reloaded for over three decades.
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Dustoff
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:33amBullets don’t work that way. If they go off from the heat, they usually travel us a few inches to feet and that’s it.
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qpwillie
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:33amThanks to everybody’s responses!!!! Very good things to know.
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FlagWavingPatriot
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:35amI may be wrong, but it’s possible 1776 meant to convey the idea that cartridges cooked off in fire will not “shoot” someone. Without a chamber/barrel, there is no way to channel that energy and propel a bullet. Rounds ignited outside of a firearm simply explode like a firecracker and often leave the bullet sitting inches or feet from the original location.
In other words, it’s astronomically unlikely firefighters were hit by stored ammunition.
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FlagWavingPatriot
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:43amOops, it looks like others already responded before I did.
Anyway, exploding ammunition injuring or killing someone is just another one of the many bullcrap myths perpetuated by Hollyweird and their movies.
Most of the anti-gun nuts pushing gun control gained all their “experience” and “knowledge” through the movies or the media. Sad.
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MacMedic892
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 1:02pmNo. When cartridge ammo cooks off, it’s the shell casings that go flying. The projectile is heavier… much heavier. The shell casing is significantly lighter. When fired in a weapon, the whole round is effectively locked in place, and there is effectively only one direction that the energy can go.
But loose ammunition is (obviously) not locked in place. The unrestrained energy is quickly dispersed. The denser, heavier bullet barely moves, and the casing travels a short distance.
Rest in peace, my fallen brothers.
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Thatsitivehadenough
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 9:56amHow tragic for these men who’s only concern was to save someone.
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PAUL GULLO
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 9:53amReminds me of the Watts riots.
Maybe its my Post Tramatic White Guilt Stress Disorder.
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1776freedomofspeech
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:08amDo you feel bad because you are not a black loser with your hand out?
You may have “White Guilt Syndrome”……please send a check to “Stamp Out Whitey”…
This has been a public service annoucement.
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CHROME_PLATED_HEART
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 9:50amHmm…I remember when the blacks in L.A. used to do that…start fires, wait for the Firemen to respond, and then attack them…hmm…
Trigus
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 9:59amHmmm, sounds like what happen after Katrina at Oakwood Shopping Center.
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RJJinGadsden
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:17amHave been following this in the news this morning. Even before hearing of the deaths it stuck me as eerily as a Hollywood script.
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4BlueStars
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 5:48pmSome places in Chicago, it still does.
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kindling
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 9:44amI didn’t think guns were allowed. Oh yea, only criminals are allowed to carry guns. Thats right. Well, they seem to be safer now.
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Warphead
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 11:19amI would never in my wildest dreams think of doing something like what has happened. Only a sick mind do this. But, I can tell you that in a situation in which I was confronted by such a depraved person they would have more to worry about than a fire ax. Have you noticed a pattern here. All these shootings of innocent people. What is the one thing they have in common? I’ll tell you. The criminal has a gun, the victims do not. I can only wonder how brave one of these mass killers would be if they knew their potential victim might just blow their head off. Taking guns will not work. Any one with access to a machine shop can make them in some form or another. It would just leave society in an even more vulnerable position. How ludicrous an idea. Imagine ancient man having their knives and axes confiscated and banned. Only a buffoon would blame an inanimate object for the actions of a crazy person.
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Smokey_Bojangles
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 9:40amNew York needs to ban guns…..Oh Wait! They do.
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gyro
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 9:44amthis
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DougHuffman
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 9:51amNo, NY must really really ban guns. Like the “strenuously object” scene in A Few Good Men – that segues nicely to Nicholson’s Colonel Jessup in Doomberg’s face, “You can’t handle the truth!”
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Shamrock241
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 10:12am@GYRO Comment: ( this ) Layoff the Eggnog you’re not making any sense.
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Glennda
Posted on December 24, 2012 at 4:52pmDUGFIR . . . Trying a little too hard to get the Jew in there, eh? Willfully the wrong name, and unfortunately the wrong character. But hey, your anti-Semitism is clear . . . crystal. Is it butter yet?
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