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6 Misconceptions About Jesus’ Birth & the Nativity That You Won’t Find in the Bible

Dec. 25, 2012 8:46am Billy Hallowell

The Bible details Jesus Christ’s birth in Matthew 1:18-25, Matthew 2:1-12, Luke 1:26-38 and Luke 2:1-20. The intricate elements surrounding history’s most talked about figure, which have been retold again and again in churches, within families and by popular media, are generally well-known by the faithful around the world.

But did you know that there are some minor misconceptions — some traditional details that are not in the Bible, but that have been added into the story as time has progressed?

Here are some of the biggest misconceptions and clarifications surrounding Jesus’ birth:

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Three Wise Men? Maybe Not

One of the biggest misconceptions surrounding the birth of Christ is that there three three wise men who came to visit him following his arrival. While it is commonplace to see this group of men in popular re-tellings and depictions of the story, reality — at least based on the Biblical account — is not so definitive.

5 Misconceptions About Jesus Birth & the Nativity | Bible

Photo Credit: Wikipedia

Religion News Service recently interviewed Bible experts who weighed in on this phenomenon, offering some important clarifications. As they noted, Matthew 2:1-11 refers to “magi from the East” (magi means wise men or priests who studied the stars). As you’ll notice, “magi” is a plural word, but the Bible does not definitively say how many men came to see Jesus. The holy book never claims that there were only three wise men — it simply says that there was more than one.

–

Wise Men’s Gifts to Jesus Cause Confusion

It’s the three gifts that were given to Jesus – gold, frankincense, and myrrh — that seem to be at the root of the claim and popular depiction surrounding the wise men. Based on the fact that these three items were bestowed upon the child, some have claimed that each person must have given one item (i.e. there were three wise men).

While it is certainly possible that this number of attendees is accurate, as stated in the last point, we aren’t quite sure. The number of gifts being given may actually have had little to do with how many people went to see the newborn Christian savior. After all, a group of 10 may have given three gifts collectively — or two people may have done so.

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The Magi: Kings or Astronomers?

According to experts who spoke with RNS, some have assumed that the three wise men were also kings. This notion is based on Old Testament interpretations of Psalm 72 and Isaiah 60:6, among other verses (Psalm 72:11 reads: “May all kings bow down to him and all nations serve him.”).

However, the magi, at least described by Ben Witherington, New Testament professor for doctoral studies at Asbury Theological Seminar, told RNS his definition of these revered men — one that certainly doesn’t encapsulate the word “king.”

Photo Credit: The Yorck Project

“Magi were astrologers,” he said. “They were normally counselors to kings and priests, and hence considered wise men, able to read the signs of the skies and the times.”

So, here, too, it seems there is some debate — however most have settled on the men as astronomers and not kings in the sense that they would be traditionally viewed.

–

Did the Wise Men Even Visit Jesus as a Baby?

One of the more common — but still often overlooked — debates around Christmas time is when the wise men visited Jesus. While most nativity sets come complete with the “kings” to set next to a newborn Jesus, there is actually evidence to suggest they visited Jesus much later when he was a young “child” and not a “baby.”

For starters, a close reading of Matthew 2: 1-12 reveals that the wise men visit Jesus in “house.” (Although as you’ll see in the next section, there is some confusion even regarding the use of this term.)

“On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him,” verse 11 says.

Additionally verse 16 notes that after the wise men told King Harod of their plan to visit the little “king” and they never returned, Herod ordered all children under two years old killed. That seems to suggest that Jesus was not a baby at the time, and that even Herod thought he could be older.

So what does all this mean? It seems quite possible that the wise men didn’t visit Jesus until he was older than a newborn. But even if that wasn’t the case, we must at least admit the Bible isn’t crystal clear that they came while he was still a baby.

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Where Was Jesus Born?

Many popular interpretations of Jesus’ birth show the baby sitting near farm animals in a stable. However, we’re not quite sure that this is how the events actually unfolded. Let’s start with the word “inn.” According to Witherington, in Greek (the word is “kataluma”) it can also mean “guest room.” The Biblical expert continues:

So what we must envision is that the holy family had to stay in the back portion of the ancestral home in Bethlehem, where they would have kept the beast of burden (hence the feeding trough referred to).

Archaeology has shown that in such homes you had a petition wall between the main front part of the house and the place where you kept your prized animal. But these are Jews of course, so the animal would have been left outside, and the place quickly cleaned for Mary and the baby in view of ritual purity issues. This also explains Luke’s later reference to Mary going and doing the ritual purity procedures after giving birth, due to the possibility of uncleanness being contracted in such a locale.

Witherington argues that there was likely not a commercial “inn” in Bethlehem. Bible expert Mary Elizabeth Sperry, who works with the U.S Conference of Catholic Bishops, adds that “katalumati” likely means “guest chamber.” She notes that the same word is used to describe the room that Jesus met the disciples in for the last supper.

Also — a different word — “pandocheion” — was used in Luke 10:34 to refer to a commercial inn, she contends. If Mary and Joseph were attempting to reach such an establishment, some claim that the Bible would use this word and not “katalumati.”

The idea that the Jesus was born at a family’s home and possibly in the area where animals were kept is fascinating. If Joseph’s family members had other company when he and Mary arrived, such a notion makes sense.

“Some have speculated that the family did not treat them well because of questions about the legitimacy of Mary’s pregnancy,” added Todd Bolen, a professor of biblical Studies at The Master’s College.

–

When Was Jesus Born?

While the “where” question is certainly important when discussing Jesus’ birth, so is the “when.” Christians have been celebrating their savior’s birth for quite some time, but no one is really sure when it actually happened. Dec. 25 is merely the anniversary that has been chosen to commemorate Christ’s birth — not the actual date.

In 2008, for instance, some scientists contended that Jesus was actually born in June — likely a surprise to those who may not realize that December is not the definitive month that he entered the world. While we may never know the exact time frame, the world has been commemorating the event for hundreds upon hundreds of years — a celebration that continues to be revered by children and adults, alike.

Carousel image courtesy of Shutterstock.com.

This story has been updated with an additional section. TheBlaze’s Jonathon M. Seidl contributed to this report.

(H/T: Religion News Service)

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Comments (243)

RushEcho2
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:48am
April 6th .

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- SageInWaiting
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:32am
  Since so much of Jesus’ life is tied to the Festivals, a likely time of His birth would be Sukkot – Tabernacles… still early enough for the sheep to be out in the fields and a time when Joseph would have been traveling to Jerusalem.
  
  Report this comment
- muffythetuffy
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:52am
  THE BLACK GUY
  
  The Jews and Romans did not have Black Slaves. The Wise Men did not arrive until two years after the birth that occurred in the Spring. How can all of these be celebrated in one Holiday and does it really matter. What about Jewish King Herod Holocaust Day, the Day when King Herod had all the children 6 years or younger massacred and when Mary, Jesus and Joseph fled to Egypt using the Wise Men’s Gold.
  
  Report this comment
- Buddynoel
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 12:01pm
  All these years I thought Kris Kristofferson was right. Turns out he’s just guessing.
  
  Report this comment
- muffythetuffy
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 12:12pm
  THE HOLOCAUST AGAINST THE HOLY FAMILY IS A STORY JEWS WOULD RATHER FORGET
  
  King Herod hated the Jesus King of the Jews and ordered his troops to massacre all children 6 years of age or younger. He hoped to kill Jesus in this one of many Holocausts. Jesus, Mary and Joseph were able to escape to Egypt days before the Holocaust using the Wise Men’s Gold. They did not return to Judea until Herod was dead. Why don’t Christians celebrate the King Herod Holocaust Day as a miracle of God that saved his Son from the Jews/
  
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- Mojoron
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 12:13pm
  The sheep are in the fields all year long. It is rarely snowy in Israel, and they had to move the sheep around in order to obtain enough grass since they did not routinely grow hay. The magi probably did not come within the first year. Herod, upon hearing from the magi there was a new ‘king’ born, he ordered all male children to be killed thinking that killing 2 year olds or less would kill the new king. So probably the Jesus child was anywhere from 1 to 2 years old when they came by to say hi. Jesus was definitely born in a cave. The church of the Nativity is built over a group of caves the shepherds used as a stable at night. Bethlehem at the time of Herod was a very small town compared to Jerusalem and during the time of the census, people were packed everywhere. The gifts, according to the mystic Anne Catherine Emmerich (The Passion of the Christ,) indicates the gifts were dispersed to the poor and not kept by the Holy Family, definitely not kept to be used at his death.
  
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- Vegasdad702
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 12:19pm
  Hey guys im not trying to be controversial, especially on a day like today, but im curious has anybody ever debunked this claim-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZgT1SRcrKE
  I don’t know anybody that ever has. I myself used to be an atheist but found my way back to God. Still I think that the talking points laid out in the following clip pretty much destroy the basic story of Christ. I don’t think it proves he didn’t exist, I just think it proves that many of the things we have been told about Jesus have been borrowed from other cultures and God like figures that predated him. STILL it does NOT prove he didn’t exist. Any opinions on this?????
  
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- Vegasdad702
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 12:25pm
  It didn’t link i’ll try again—http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZgT1SRcrKE
  
  Report this comment
- ashestoashes
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 1:03pm
  Mat 24:30 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it.
  For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
  Behold, I have told you in advance
  So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them.
  For as the lightning flashes in the east and shines to the west, so it will be when the Son of Man comes
  Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather
  But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
  At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.
  
  Report this comment
- Gorp
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 1:05pm
  I think it was April 15th. Because that’s when WE give all of our “gifts” to our beloved government.
  
  Report this comment
- ashestoashes
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 1:38pm
  My above post was in reference to Robert Hawk..whose scripture evaluation I find interesting..although he wrote that he believes that Jesus’s birthdate was important because we could be fooled into following the anti-Christ is we got it wrong..Messianic Jews that I have studied with do believe it was during the Feast of the Tabernacles if memory serves because that was when they went up to pay taxes..but the above post will point to the coming of Christ..
  
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- HYPNOTOAD
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 1:53pm
  SAGEINWAITING: you are correct. And the “manger” was likely a sukka which all Jews construct on next to their homes during Sukkot (Feast of Booths, Feast of Tabernacles). It has an open roof to look at the stars and contemplate the greatness of God. They slept there during Sukkot.
  
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- lynskinners
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 3:46pm
  How about dozens of truths in the Bible that prove Mormonism is a false religion? Praying for all those who are still deceived by the LDS “church.”
  
  Report this comment
- Wayner
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 5:31pm
  As to the question: Where Was Jesus Born? I would refer anyone to watch Dr Jimmy De Young’s You Tube video ” The Tower Of The Flock”.
  According to him, the flock wasn’t just an ordinary flock, but sheep being raised for sacrifice at the temple.. The place was Migdal Edar.. A two story tower where ewes were brought into the lower story to birth the lambs… When the lambs were born, the shepherds would wrap them in ‘swaddling cloths to protect them from blemish and place them in a manger… We’re familiar with Micah 5:2 that the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem,, but how about Micah 4:8 which says “To you O tower of the flock it shall come”?
  
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- Wayner
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 5:47pm
  http://youtu.be/zgmBSeCkHZE …. The Tower Of The Flock
  
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- Rosemary Woodhouse
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 6:01pm
  I don’t know about April 6th, but SageInWaiting is spot on. Christmas, while a “fun” holiday and serves to remind us of our Savior’s arrival, is indeed a pagan holiday. All of the celebrations surrounding it, including the tree.
  
  http://www.hope-of-israel.org/cmas1.htm
  
  Report this comment
- Palter
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 6:26pm
  Who else born virgin birth on dec 25th? Osiris, Dionysus, Attis, Mithra… to name a few.
  
  Report this comment
- LibertyOrDeath12
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 7:55pm
  Beck is also a Mormon who believes in all that crazy lunatic ideas. Just saying Beck. Truth hurts don’t it?
  
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- huufarted
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 12:00am
  Yeshua WAS born on Sukkot the Holiday that metaphorically prefigures the Icarnation at the REMEZ level as do all the Jewish festivals. Hanukkah which Yeshua also kept even though it was not commanded in the Law of Moses but is mentioned in John 10:22 as “Feast of Dedication” and is the feast that prefigures the 1,000 Millenial reign of Yeshua after he returns…
  
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- old white guy
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 8:18am
  so, where was the word faith in this article???
  
  Report this comment
- KAWLME
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 9:57am
  I agree with April 6th. Thank you for the tower of the shepards on you tube. I also agree with that. For those who mock any religion do not call yourself follwers of Christ. Did Christ ever mock any religion? I think he pointed out some misconceptions in hopes that peoples hearts would turn to our Father in Heaven. My question to you is how did Christ set up His Church would not His restored church look the same as in olden times. I ask you to research it come up with a conclusion then ask with a sincere heart if your conclusion is correct. Do this with any sermon that is taught? Let the Holy Ghost work and teach you the truth rather than man.
  
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- pkbrooks
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 11:44am
  Agree with this one. But what is interesting to me is for all the comments here I have not seen one person, including the author of the article report on the basic understanding of the birth sequence from a biblical point of view. Has no one read the timeline written in the book of Luke? The one that outlines the order of Abia that Zechariah the father of John the Baptist was a part of? Has no one researched when his order was to fulfill their required service in the temple according to the orders of King David? Has tradition clouded the judgement of the average student of the Bible? If John came home from his service during Shavuot (Pentecost) which is May/June and his wife got pregnant and then she and Mary, the mother of Jesus, meet 6 months later just after Mary conceives, this means that the conception of Jesus is somewhere in November/December which is the accepted Hebrew calandar date range for the Festival of Dedication (aka Chanukah) mentioned in John 10:22. Most here would agree that pregnancy last 9-10 months which places Jesus’ birth somewhere from the end of August to the beginning of October, the accepted and currently observed time period of the fall feasts, especially the Festival of Sukkot who’s main title refers to God dwelling with us or “Emmanuel”. This is all right in the Bible for all to read and study no matter your denomination or affiliation. Remember this: Jesus was unified and can’t be divided. Be unified!
  
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- mcsledge
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 3:08pm
  I concur.
  
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- mcsledge
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 3:09pm
  That is… I concur with April 6th.
  
  Report this comment
- glassaudioguy
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 9:33pm
  @ Muffy- better go back and read your Bible. Herod killed the males TWO years old an under.
  
  @Palter- Those comparisons were completely unknown before the middle of the second century at the very earliest, meaning the pagans or gnostics borrowed from the Christians, not the other way around.
  
  Report this comment
- davecorkery
  Posted on December 27, 2012 at 9:29am
  More like April 1.
  
  Report this comment
- gcharlie360
  Posted on December 27, 2012 at 11:47am
  survivorseed
  Posted on Dec 26, 2012 at 5:04pm
  
  I believe that ancient jews built ships and sailed to america
  
  Mormon’s hold Jews in high esteem. However, the Jewish nation as a whole proved unfaithful. When Jesus appeared, the nation rejected him. (John 1:11) Thus, Jesus told the Jewish religious leaders: “The kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits.” (Matthew 21:43)
  
  I believe that in 1978 god changed his mind about black people
  
  God did not love just white people or black people, but he loves people. That is why Christ’s followers are told to “make disciples of people of all the nations,” all kinds of people. Acts 10:34, 35; Matt. 28:19. Man sees what appears to the eyes, but God sees what the heart is. 1 Sam 16:7
  
  God never changes. That includes his standards and principles. Malachi 3:6 compared to your Book of Mormon 9:9: “For do we not read that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and in him there is no variableness neither shadow of changing?”
  
  I believe that the garden of eden was in Jackson county Missouri
  
  Its approximate location in the Middle East is known, for some of the rivers named in the Bible as flowing through it exist to this day. Gen 2:10-14
  
  I am a mormon and a mormon just believes
  
  The bible encourages us to examine the scriptures daily to make sure what we are taught is the truth. Acts 17:11. Faith is not credulity. It is founded on acc
  
  Report this comment
RecknHavic
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:46am
One thing that always stands out to me when I see pics of Jesus, whether as a child or adult, is how Caucasian he appears; especially in pics posted by Mormons.

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- vallivue19
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:56am
  Had to throw the Mormon part in there, huh? Well, I don’t think a Mormon wrote this story or picked the pictures for it, but in all of them, Jesus sure does look white to me.
  
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- From Virginia
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:00am
  And in Africa He is black and in Christian Arab tribes He is swarthy. People depict Him in ways THEY can relate to.
  
  We are one race – human. Christ was born a human. He was one of us.
  
  Happy now?
  
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- Macman1138
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:05am
  That was the first thing I noticed too.
  
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- THERAPTURCOMES
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:11am
  Have you ever seen a Jew? Do they not look Caucasian?
  
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- Eastinfection
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:19am
  Sammy Davis Jr. didn’t look too caucasian.
  
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- Bearfoot
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:37am
  Our saviour Jesus (Yeshua) is the Christ (anointed one) of the Almighty God Jehovah (Yahweh) (YHWH).
  It does not matter what he looked like. What matters is his role in the outworking of God’s Kingdom. – Daniel 7:13-14, Matthew 24:14
  
  http://www.jw.org
  
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- Vegasdad702
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 12:11pm
  @eastinfection- You literally just made me laugh out loud! Hahahahaha! Oh that was funny!
  
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- RemoteCoderz
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 1:42pm
  @From Virginia then my Jesus I guess would look like R2D2, an all knowing, smart arse robot.
  
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- THERAPTURCOMES
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 4:59pm
  BEARFOOT
  
  Jehovah Witness is a cult. Jesus Christ IS God incarnate on this earth. He is the EVERLASTING FATHER. http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/jesusgd2.htm
  
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- WhiteFang
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 5:11pm
  THERAPTURCOMES,
  
  What exactly did Bearfoot say that was wrong and what prompted you to object so nastily?
  
  Report this comment
- WhiteFang
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 5:30pm
  Rapture,
  You are labouring under the impression that Jesus is, God himself.
  
  Read this carefully;
  After being baptized Jesus immediately came up from the water; and, look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw descending like a dove God’s spirit coming upon him.17Look! Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.” (Matthew 3:16-17)
  
  Who’s voice did the witnesses of his baptism hear?
  
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- ashestoashes
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 6:48pm
  @THERAPTURECOMES..I have been to the Jehovah’s Witness Church..they have their own Bible like a few other faiths I know of..they wanted to interpret scripture on their own without the proper education. I never got into it because you have to cite some creed that Satan was kicked out of heaven in 1941 or 42 which I found ridiculous..they also believe that Jesus is the archangel Michael..which I don’t beleive either because Jesus was with the Father from the foundations of the world..every thing was created for Him by Him and through Him, and without Him, nothing was created that was created(also meaning angels..created beings) Jesus is the only begotton Son of God.(John 1)..In Hebrews1:1-14..God the Father speaks to Jesus..He says “God” your God. God the Father, calling Himself Jesus’s God..And when Jesus was on the cross..He spoke to the Father..asking Him why He had forsaken Him..and also in the Garden of Gethsemane..when He sweat blood..asking the Father if the cup before Him could pass from Him but nevertheless..be it thine will..It is God the Father-Supreme..Jesus the Son-.Authority..And the Holy Spirit..Divine They are 3 in 1 purpose
  
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- Bearfoot
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 7:10pm
  Ashestoashes – “I never got into it because you have to cite some creed that Satan was kicked out of heaven in 1941 or 42 which I found ridiculous”.
  
  Just a small correction, it was in 1914 that Satan was thrown out of heaven. – Revelation 12:7-17
  
  This conclusion may sound strange but there is scriptural proof. Of course this means study, and I’m sure you realize this is not the place to get into that subject in a serious way.
  
  Report this comment
- READRIGHTHERE
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 8:27pm
  So, let me understand, if Satan was finally cast out of heaven in 1914, all the other stuff he has ever done on earth was done under the direction, knowledge and sanction of God the Father, whom Satan was freely able to visit before being kicked out? And if Satan was kicked out, that would support the theory that he is an actual entity. Does that mean that Jehovah’s Witnesses are able to proclaim that Satan is a creation of God, a child of god like the rest of us? Please clarify…
  
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- ashestoashes
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 8:42pm
  @BEARFOOT Thank you for your input Bearfoot..I will be doing research on this..I was into researching why Jesus said to the apostles before Judas showed up with the soldiers..The prince of this world is coming..but he has nothing in me..It turns out..that Judas was the man of perdition..it gets more fascinating all the time..Take care.
  
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- Bearfoot
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:26pm
  READRIGHTHERE
  
  This is not the place for a study of the Holy Scriptures as there are so many places to go to get deep answers to all your questions.
  I will say this:
  
  Q. So, let me understand, if Satan was finally cast out of heaven in 1914, all the other stuff he has ever done on earth was done under the direction, knowledge and sanction of God the Father, whom Satan was freely able to visit before being kicked out?
  A. NO, Satan does not function under God’s direction, Satan is a free moral agent just as we are. We can choose to love God or not, and Satan chose to be a resistor – Job 2:1-7
  
  Q. And if Satan was kicked out, that would support the theory that he is an actual entity. Does that mean that Jehovah’s Witnesses are able to proclaim that Satan is a creation of God, a child of god like the rest of us? Please clarify…
  A. God created all things and all life in heaven and on earth. This includes his first angelic Son, the firstborn of all creation, the WORD of God – John 1:1, Colossians 1:15
  God also created all other angels, and one of them made himself a devil or opposer and a slanderer of God, that disobedient angel made himself a Satan. This manifested itself in the Garden of Eden. So God did create the angel who later turned against our God. Satan is a real person, an evil one of his own making. – Matthew 4:1-11
  
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- ashestoashes
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:44pm
  @BEARFOOT….Luke 10:18 Jesus said I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven..Of course..Jesus was slain from the foundations of the world..so he saw this before he was incarnated into man..but God spoke lovingly about Lucifer in the Garden of Eden..before his fall..Ezekiel 28:13-14Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.” (Ezekiel 28:13-14). Notice in the surrounding verses that he was the special covering cherub.Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.” (Ezekiel 28:15).
  But perhaps because Lucifer was jealous of Adam..and God’s love for Adam..having created him in his image..tempted Eve..I am leaning toward that being the time he was kicked out of heaven..The angels fell the same time Lucifer fell having lusted after the daughters of men creating Nephilum..the reason for Noahs flood.
  
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- Bearfoot
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:06pm
  Ashestoashes,
  You may find this interesting:
  
  6Now it came to be the day when the sons of the [true] God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and even Satan proceeded to enter right among them.7Then Jehovah said to Satan: “Where do you come from?” At that Satan answered Jehovah and said: “From roving about in the earth and from walking about in it.”8And Jehovah went on to say to Satan: “Have you set your heart upon my servant Job, that there is no one like him in the earth, a man blameless and upright, fearing God and turning aside from bad?”9At that Satan answered Jehovah and said: “Is it for nothing that Job has feared God?10Have not you yourself put up a hedge about him and about his house and about everything that he has all around? The work of his hands you have blessed, and his livestock itself has spread abroad in the earth.11But, for a change, thrust out your hand, please, and touch everything he has [and see] whether he will not curse you to your very face.”12Accordingly Jehovah said to Satan: “Look! Everything that he has is in your hand. Only against him himself do not thrust out your hand!” So Satan went out away from the person of Jehovah. – (Job 1:6:12) NWT
  
  Satan had access to Heaven during Job’s time.
  
  Report this comment
- 1TrueOne55
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:13pm
  And one thing to remember is that Mormonism is an American theology centuries after those paintings were created… The only “Theology” that was active at that time was either Judaism, Zorastoranism or Christianity. So you can’t blame Islam it was not even alive at the time.
  And history will tell you that the Roman Catholic Church claimed all the religious power in the Roman Empire after Constantine defeated his previous Caesar. It was during the reign of Constantine that the doctrine of the “Trinity” was adopted and some other theological theory. Because when the Emperor tells you to accept one way of thought or the other you can bet he influenced the conference of Bishops that he called for in 315 AD in the city of Nicea.
  
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- Bearfoot
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:14pm
  And then in Job 2:1-5 the events continue:
  
  1Afterward it came to be the day when the sons of the [true] God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and Satan also proceeded to enter right among them to take his station before Jehovah.
  2Then Jehovah said to Satan: “Just where do you come from?” At that Satan answered Jehovah and said: “From roving about in the earth and from walking about in it.”3And Jehovah went on to say to Satan: “Have you set your heart upon my servant Job, that there is no one like him in the earth, a man blameless and upright, fearing God and turning aside from bad? Even yet he is holding fast his integrity, although you incite me against him to swallow him up without cause.”4But Satan answered Jehovah and said: “Skin in behalf of skin, and everything that a man has he will give in behalf of his soul.5For a change, thrust out your hand, please, and touch as far as his bone and his flesh [and see] whether he will not curse you to your very face.”
  
  So before the ousting of Satan from heaven in Revelation 12, he could move back and forth from earth to heaven, and back again causing trouble and torment, like a terrible relative that the family has to tolerate.
  
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- Wayner
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:25pm
  Joseph Smith claimed to have received his first revelation from an angel named Moroni.. In Galatians 1:8 the Apostle Paul warns that if any man or ANGEL teaches a different gospel than the one that he and the other New Testament writers taught “they are accursed”.
  
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- ashestoashes
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:34pm
  @BEARFOOT..I am familiar with that passage..which begs the question… within what time frame was it? ..and does Satan still have access to the throne room of God?..and if not..is there a definitive time that he lost it?..He fell from heaven..but he is still under God’s control..he cannot do anything without the Father’s permission..He is the prince of this world…as was stated by Jesus before he went into the hands of the king..and even though Jesus was slain from the foundations of the world..so was Satan defeated from the foundations of the world..Satan’s destiny is already determined..as are the ones who will refuse to follow Jesus….But in the time of Job..when Satan was asked by God what he had been doing..if memory serves..he said..walking to and fro about the earth..seeking about whom I may devour..So..iniquity had indeed already been found in him..I believe he had lost his place in heaven before then..
  
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- ashestoashes
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:49pm
  Sorry BEARFOOT I didn’t realize that you had more to write..I don’t see a definitive time when Satan was denied access to heaven..and in Rev 12:7-17..to me it depicts the time when Satan tried to stop the birth of Jesus and worked through the king trying to destroy the Christ child..Rev tells the story from beginning to end..and apparently Satan was denied access to the throne room of God..but I do not see how that coincides with 1914..I see where it could coincide with Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden..or before the Christ child was born.
  
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- TERossi
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 5:45am
  One thing that always stands out to me is a Cultural Marxist stirring up the trinity of agitprop – Race, Gender, Class.
  
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- khvtex77
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 10:24am
  well said… Mormans seems to want to change the entire history of Jesus’ life…but as long as he is a right winger it’s ok
  
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- ashestoashes
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 10:32am
  @BEARFOOT I see now why you think that WW1 was the time Satan and the third of the angels were kicked out of heaven..but the question that had been plagueing me for the last 2 weeks was why Jesus said to the apostles..the prince of this world is coming and he has no part in me..Events on earth coincide with events in heaven..right? Jesus defeated Satan on the cross..so to my understanding, when Jesus said it is finished..it was…Satan was officially kicked out.
  
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- EaglePGC
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 12:27pm
  @WAYNER
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:25pm
  “Joseph Smith claimed to have received his first revelation from an angel named Moroni.. In Galatians 1:8 the Apostle Paul warns that if any man or ANGEL teaches a different gospel than the one that he and the other New Testament writers taught “they are accursed”.”
  
  Couple of clarifications:
  1. Joseph Smith’s 1st “revelation” or vision was actually of God the Father AND Jesus Christ
  2. Mormons believe that the gospel IS THE SAME as taught by those in the New Testament, so that argument doesn’t apply. If it does apply then you are ignoring thousands of years of translation, interpretation, and withholding of the writings of the New Testament.
  
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- mcsledge
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 3:08pm
  Jesus Christ was a Jew. What color are the descendants of Judah? Give it a rest.
  
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- mcsledge
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 3:15pm
  Wayner – Right you are. Unfortunately, apostate religions violate the very reference you have given. Therefore, restoring the Gospel of Jesus Christ as it was established by Christ through Prophets and Apostles with Christ as its Chief Cornerstone through divine revelation, the Gospel presented to Joseph Smith was in perfect harmony with that followed and taught by Paul.
  
  The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints = The Church of Jesus Christ. Thus, the gospel taught by the one equals the gospel taught by the other and vice versa.
  
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- Bearfoot
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 3:26pm
  ashestoashes,
  
  John 14:28-31: YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am.29So now I have told YOU before it occurs, in order that, when it does occur, YOU may believe.30I shall not speak much with YOU anymore, for the ruler of the world is coming. And he has no hold on me,31but, in order for the world to know that I love the Father, even as the Father has given me commandment [to do], so I am doing. Get up, let us go from here.
  
  I do not fully understand why this statement of Jesus has been plaguing you for the last 2 weeks. Jesus was going away and the devil was going to still be there to torment Jesus’ apostles after his resurrection. Years later Jesus said in Revelation 2:10 that Satan would still be around, testing the brothers of Christ. Satan has no hold on our King, Jesus.
  See also Luke 22:31, 1Peter 5:8, Acts 5:3
  
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- survivorseed
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 5:04pm
  I believe that ancient jews built ships and sailed to america
  I believe that in 1978 god changed his mind about black people
  I believe that the garden of eden was in Jackson county Missouri
  I am a mormon and a mormon just believes
  
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- urrybr
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 9:29pm
  If Christ was a Jew, he would have been white. His complexion could havee been “ruddy” like that of David. He would’ve had auburn to black ****.
  
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- searching for the Truth
  Posted on December 27, 2012 at 8:06am
  My Father says Jesus is God . He could send His Spirit out and heal people and stuff like that. My Father says He could even pray to His Spirit and ask Him stuff. Neat huh! He says that Jesus could even jump off a mountain and the Angels would catch Him if He wanted to. Wow ! An Angelchute ! My Father says that Jesus stopped Abraham from sacrificing his son and told Abraham He would provide the sacrifice. That was nice. My Father says when God made the sacrifice for us, the sacrifice was Himself. Kinda sad if you ask me ! And, almost everyone despised Him, except for His Mom, of course. My Mom says Jesus even went into Hell and took the keys of Hell away from satan so that no one except Him had the power over Life. Neat huh ! She says, Jesus is building us a very big place to play and have fun , forever . My Father says, ” Remember ole Israel our God is One.” Yep ! He Won.
  
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TeresaJ
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:39am
None of that is news to me, except the “inn.” part. That I had not heard before.

We never set the magi up on our nativity, because they weren’t there. ^^ But then, you also do not find a Santa Claus in our house.

Different people have their different traditions. I think what is important is the spirit of joy and giving as we celebrate the birth of the King, whenever that might actually be. :)

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- AbrahamsSheepdog
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:57am
  Beautifully said. God bless you. I love the tricked Harrod part. They could have been killed. Gods grace to faithful men.
  
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- WhiteFang
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 4:52pm
  The Bible does not give the date of Jesus’ birth, nor does it say that we should celebrate his birthday. As McClintock and Strong’s Cyclopedia states: “”The observance of Christmas is not of divine appointment, nor is it of NT [New Testament] origin.””
  
  Instead, an examination of the history of Christmas exposes its roots in pagan religious rites. The Bible shows that we offend God if we try to worship him in a way that he does not approve of.—Exodus 32:5-7.
  
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- Bruce P.
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 5:10pm
  WHITEFANG — who would think that the omnipotent creator of the universe would be such a sensitive little pissant?
  
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- TeresaJ
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 6:05pm
  PUh-lease Mr. Whitefang.
  
  The Bible specifically says to honor the Sabbath, but Jesus healed a man’s hand, forbidden by the Law of Moses as the leaders of the time interpreted it. So did Jesus break His own Law, or where the leaders just sticks-in-the-mud reveling in their own importance and limited understanding of the point of the Law in the first place?
  
  I don’t care where Christmas’ very first origins came from, especially if it’s a man with his own agenda, be it a “faithful” man or just a mocker, trying to tell me. Christmas for me and millions of others across America means the celebration on the Birth of Christ, along with every tradition we use to celebrate along with it. If God were to have a problem with it, I’m more than ready to face Him in the judgment seat for it. But what makes more sense to me about this argument, is the deceiver using yet another tactic to divide, discredit, and stamp out Christianity and the human race as we self-destruct from the heathen godlessness.
  
  Merry Christmas. ^^ And a Happy New Year.
  
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- LibertyOrDeath12
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 8:11pm
  All I know is when I have kids. I will not tell a thing about Santa Claus. As a matter fact, if they ask, I will tell them he does not exist and Christmas is about giving and helping others and recognizing Jesus as our Savior. Santa is the work of Satan. Sorry to break it to you.
  
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- L.B.Stephens
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 4:28pm
  TeresaJ – “I don’t care where Christmas’ very first origins came from”
  
  It is obvious you love the Christmas celebration customs and you want to keep them as a tradition for you and your family. This is your choice.
  
  I ask; Does our risen Lord Jesus in heaven appreciate his name being associated with a Roman pagan celebration of Saturnalia? Sometimes what we value is actually objectional to God and his Son. Isn’t that the issue being discussed here?
  
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universalphilos
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:37am
Some say that the “three wise men” known since antiquity are the three stars in the belt of the constellation, Orion, or Osiris, as it was known. They say three pyramids in Egypt stand in perfect alignment with these “three wise men,” showing a oneness of heaven and earth. When the “three wise men” and pyramids are visible in a certain configuration as the sun rises perfectly over the Nile, it was a sign to astrologers that a pharaoh or leader was born who would be one, knowing both heaven and earth. Is this “the rising of his star” in the east the magi saw?http://www.angelfire.com/in4/aup_messiah/1983December02.audio.html

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searching for the Truth
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:34am
Does one really believe that when ” one, ” contemplating their death , ” their Life before them, ” all the monks that were burnt at the stake for same, and the consequences for perfecting the ” Word, ” in Scripture would care about the money they made, what people would think about them, or ” fame? “

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Zerodawn
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:34am
I should say also great story on Christmas.

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Zerodawn
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:33am
Not sure if you on here listen to Greg Laurie but at Christmas His messages talk about a lot of this that was listed. Also no camels rode more like horses. The wise men would have had guards too, so we need about 300 people around a 1 to 2 year old Jesus

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MM055
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:22am
“partition”

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N37BU6
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:04am
That’s a whole lotta religion pegged on a whole lotta guesswork…

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- DRT_7.62_BTHP
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 12:10pm
  Like science isn’t.
  
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searching for the Truth
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:02am
Well. If one is gonna believe in misconceptions in the Bible in the first place, then they are already lost !

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- qpwillie
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:16am
  @searching for the Truth
  
  I think you missed the entire point of this article. Nobody said the misconceptions were in the Bible.
  
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- searching for the Truth
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 9:14am
  Willie be quick – Willie must stand over a candlestick – Jesus is in every Bible that I care to study.
  
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qpwillie
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:53am
The biggest and most serious misconception is that his name is “Jesus”.

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- HowTruthHurts
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:10am
  Great point. Being Hebrew, his name would be Jeshua (or in English Joshua). Even further, it could be Yeshua since ancient Hebrew had no “j” sound.
  
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- tzion
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:31am
  Actually, the English Joshua more often comes from Y’hoshua not Yeshua.
  
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- HowTruthHurts
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 12:11pm
  @tzion
  
  Thanks for that info.
  
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- bonesiii
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 1:04pm
  The “J” thing comes from English via european languages that use “j” to mean “y”. Neither Hebrew nor Greek actually use English lettering anyways. The English spellings were originally pronounced rightly but when we changed the use of our j to the dzh sound, people who didn’t know better did the same for biblical names like Yared (Jared), Yerusalem (Jerusalem), etc.
  
  So yes, it’s Yeshua, in Hebrew, a variant of Yoshua (Joshua). In Greek, Yesous (to spell it more clearly; usually spelled Iesous), and Latin Yesus. Jesus is an English version of the Latin version, basically.
  
  Of course, I’m sure Jesus doesn’t mind English having a different version; still it’s helpful to know the true etymology. ^_^
  
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Robert Hawk
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:51am
How stupid can people be? Scientists confirmed Christ was born in June? You know you can actually read the book yourself and understand what actually occurred and avoid all this slight of hand.
1) Christ was not Jewish. You will find written in the book of Luke that Christ was born to the virgin Mary who was of the daughters of Levi of the house of Aaron (the priest line of Israel), therefore he is an Levite.
2) His birth date is defined using Zacharias and his priestly course “Abijah”, the eighth priestly course (Luke, 1st Chron 24). This course nails down John and therefore Christ (6 mo time- 5+1 as in Revelation 9), pinning the conception of Christ as spoken by the mouth of the prophet Isaiah (7:14) to what we call December (Latin for 10), He was actually born 9 months later in the 7th month. The Hebrew calendar starts in March (spring equinox).
3) Joseph was of the tribe of Judah and of he house of David (Matthew 1). His marriage to Mary, provided Christ both titles (High Priest – Aaron and King – David), therefore he is King of kings and Lord of lords.
4) The wise men (Mag-os – Matthew 2), its not written that they were Kings, and its correct that there is no actual number concerning the quantity written in biblical text. It was these Mag-os who called Christ “King of the Jews”, they knew of the promise spoken by Isaiah (7:14), The title King is what caused Herod to murder all the young children. Even the chief priests and scribes knew where Christ was to b

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- HowTruthHurts
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:14am
  Christ was Hebrew, which today is referred to as Jewish. Christ was of the lineage of Aaron who was of the lineage of Abraham. Remember, Jehovah separated the Levites from the other tribes, but he never said he separated them from Abraham.
  
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- ChildOfTheKing
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:27am
  @HowTruthHurts:
  PERFECT TRUTH SOMETIMES HURTS THOSE WHO DENY IT.
  
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- tzion
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:35am
  Tribal lineage in Judaism runs through the father so Mary’s linage would be meaningless. Moreover, Jews, or Judeans, are named as such because they originated from the kingdom of Judea, which included Levites.
  
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- From Virginia
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:53am
  Jesus WAS Jewish – for all the reasons you stated he wasn’t. Also, as Joseph wasn’t the father of Christ it is likely that Mary also had the lineage of Judah – she was probably Joseph’s cousin. Regardless, to say Jesus Christ was NOT Jewish is beyond ridiculous. Mary was Jewish. Joseph was Jewish. Christ was brought up in the Jewish tradition. Christ’s message was to the Jewish people. Christ travelled through all the Jewish lands. Christ was brought up on charges against Jewish law – NOT Roman law. He was crucified BECAUSE the Jewish people demanded it and the Romans complied because they didn’t like interfering in local affairs. Had it been left up to them they would have let him go.
  
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- THERAPTURCOMES
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:15am
  TZION
  
  Both Mary and Joseph were of the lineage of David and to say the mother is meaningless is not correct. Just look at Eve in the Garden of Eden where the seed comes from the woman.
  
  If by a virgin birth then the fathers DNA is meaningless.
  
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- THERAPTURCOMES
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:18am
  Robert Hawk
  
  The tribe of Levi is JEWISH and were present in Numbers 1 at the census
  
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- bonesiii
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 2:06pm
  It’s also a rather silly myth to think that any individual comes purely from a particular line, with no intermarriage in all of that time. :P Mary and Joseph (though only Mary counts biologically) both trace their lineage to King David, who was of the line of Yudah (Judah). That line is where the term “Jew” comes from originally, but it is also usually applied of all Hebrews nowadays.
  
  Technically I would call myself a Jew too in the sense that all who accept faith in Jesus are “grafted in” to the tree of Israel, the Bible says, in a symbolic sense. :)
  
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- SchoeneTante
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 3:11pm
  @Robert Hawk. The Book of Hebrews certainly disagrees with you about Jesus not being a Jew. It specifically says that Jesus was not a Levite but was descended from the tribe of Judah, which is a Jew. That is where the term “Jew” comes from. It is an abbreviation for Judahite. Heb. 7:11-14:
  
  “11 Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? 12 For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well. 13 For the one of whom these things are spoken belonged to another tribe, from which no one has ever served at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, and in connection with that tribe Moses said nothing about priests.”
  
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- tzion
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 7:43pm
  @rapture
  What I meant was that under Jewish tradition a Jew belongs to the tribe of their father.
  
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- louie louie
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:06pm
  This does bring up a question about lineage. The Bible refers to Elisabeth as Mary’s “cousin”. It also says that Elisabeth was “of the daughters of Aaron.” That opens the possibility that Mary was also a descendant of Aaron if Elisabeth was a cousin on Mary’s father’s side of the family. But if they were cousins on her mother’s side, Mary could still be of the tribe of Judah from her father. Does anyone know more about this?
  
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- mcsledge
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 3:19pm
  HowTruthHurts – Your incorrect. Christ is a descendant of King David (supported amply by the Bible), who was a descendant of Judah. Christ was not a Levite; he was a Jew.
  
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ScooterinOregon
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:42am
It really doesn’t matter when Jesus was born. What matters is that He left His position at the right hand of the Father, and came to earth as God’s lamb to be sacrificed for the “sin of the world”. Personally, I believe He was born closer to Passover, since He is the Passover lamb. Also, the Wisemen didn’t show up until about 2 years later, at the most. Remember that Herod ordered the murder of the babies in Bethlehem in order to guarantee the death of the rightful Jewish King, Jesus. By then, Mary & Joseph were living in a house. The Wisemen brought gifts, gold (represents Jesus diety & kingship), frank-incense (represents worship to Jesus as God), myrrh (which is a spice used in burial, for Jesus future death as our sacrifice for our sin). Jesus is God’s gift to you. If you confess with your mouth, Jesus as Lord, and you believe with all your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Accept Jesus as your best gift, today. Today is your day of salvation!

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- Robert Hawk
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:05am
  Your incorrect, it matters. Our father had it written down so you could get it correct. Celebrating it at the wrong time places you at great disadvantage when it comes to understanding what will occur shortly. If you can not time Christ’s birth at 6 months after John the Baptist, then you will most likely follow the wrong Christ (there are two and one is a fake), which occurs 5 months prior to the true Christ appearing. The fake will show up some time around what people call Easter which is actually ishtar, 5 months prior to the blowing of trumpets (Leviticus 23) which occurs on the first day of the 7th month (near the fall equinox). This is why its important that you actually understand what is written. If you do not understand, then you will most likely be deceived by Satan when he appears as the false Christ (right after the war between the West and Iran (Persia) Daniel 8 & 11).
  
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- N37BU6
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:13am
  Thanks for the heads-up Robert, but as a rule I never trust anybody who doesn’t know the difference between “your” and “you’re”.
  
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- ChildOfTheKing
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:26am
  @N37BU6:
  And therefore, YOU are the point we all are trying to make. NO ONE IS PERFECT, IN DEED OR IN ANYTHING ELSE AND THIS IS WHY CHRIST CAME TO DIE FOR ALL THOSE MISTAKES AND SINS, IF, AND I SAY IF IN A BIG WAY, IF YOU ACCEPT HIM AS YOUR PERSONAL SAVIOR.
  
  If you do not, then you will be lost for eternity after you die. So, don’t wait until your deathbed to believe in Jesus. Satan will try his best to prevent you from accepting Christ and therefore, everytime YOU pick on people because their spelling isn’t perfect, then you have fallen for the SATAN TRICK, which means, YOU’VE TOTALLY MISSED THE POINT AND HAVE JUST CONDEMNED YOURSELF.
  
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- From Virginia
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:20am
  The next time Christ comes He WON’T be in human form. He’ll come as a conquerer. If some guy shows up and pretends to be a saviour doing miracles THAT will be the anti-christ. Actually, any guy who shows up and restores the Jewish temple is the anti-christ.
  
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- kindling
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:45am
  Robert, I do not know this and am asking……..Joseph and Mary were gathering at his families home for Passover weren’t they? I thought I read the Romans used to gather taxes then because they knew they could catch everyone because of this. I thought Jesus was also crusified at that same time. Would that not make his birth and death very close to the same day?
  
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RichEG
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:40am
Well at least they had two wise men … that’s two more than we have in Washington D.C.

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- Eraty Bab
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:50am
  LOL….good one!
  
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- renewelectric
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:02am
  That is great!
  
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- HowTruthHurts
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:16am
  Hilarious!!!
  
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- kickagrandma
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:19am
  Funny and right on!
  
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- TheCalmOne
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 6:10pm
  It’s actually rather disgustingly racist, if you are implying that black men can’t be ‘wise’.
  
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Voice1percent
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:38am
I suppose if you want to argue you could say the first photo is unreal because it depicts a black man as one of the maji from the east. There are very few blacks in the Far East as in “we three men from orient are?” Then in the second photo we have maji who look very much like modern day mid-westerners. The point isn’t the who or where or what ethnic makeup. The point is Jesus the only son of God sent to be born of a virgin to live then die for all mankinds sin and so reconcile all men back to God. That is the important part of Christmas. These also are recorded facts during the Roman era, for you atheists out there.

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Jezreel
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:38am
Since Christ came to fulfill the law, he would have had to have been born during one of the Jewish feast celebrations of the old covenant like the Yom Kippur. The wise men never got to see him until he was around a year old when he was in the “house” with his mother Mary. The gifts that they brought would most probaby have been used to sustain their exodus to Egypt when Herod ordered the slaughter of all the infants in Bethlehem.
I don’t hold Christmas day dear in my heart. It is just a tradition of man that got started by pagan Babylonian beliefs. The Roman Catholic Church, again and again, mixed idolatry with the word of God and watered it down good enough rendering it powerless and exempt from the power of God. Instead, the Roman Catholic church uses the power of satan.

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- Eastinfection
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:52am
  Yes, yes.
  The Catholic Church has used the power of Satan to establish countless hospitals, orphanages, charities, etc.
  All to empower the Devil.
  Sure.
  
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- Robert Hawk
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:58am
  Your correct, in order for the taxing of the tribes of Israel to work, they would have had to have been in possession of something to tax. That would have occurred during the Feast of Tabernacles, when all Israel was to appear before our Father and not empty handed. The taxing occurred on the way to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles, which occurs in the 7th month. You will find the feasts written in Leviticus 23.
  
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- ChildOfTheKing
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:23am
  Whenever MAN gets a hold of an idea, he does either twist it or ruin it, so it is not just the Catholics, BUT ALL RELIGIONS. Man creates religion, so it is no wonder how flawed it is.
  
  However, the heart of it all is that Jesus came as a man to show mankind how to live and how to die.
  THAT is all that really matters. Everything else is just FLUFF.
  
  So, if you find joy in celebrating December 25th as CHRISTmas, then do so. GOD WILL NEVER FAULT YOU WITH THIS, AS LONG AS YOU KEEP CHRIST IN THE CENTER OF THINGS AND AS THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH.
  
  Mankind tends to nit-pick everything and rightly so, I suppose, but as long as you keep CHRIST in HIS proper place, then I do not believe God will fault you.
  
  I also believe that Santa is ok to a point, but you need to tell your children the truth as soon as they are old enough. Afterall, there really was a St Nicolas and that is where Santa Claus came from.
  Teach your kids to put CHRIST at the top of Christmas and in all holidays in a spiritual tone.
  
  The Christmas I remember as a child was wonderful, but now that I am grown, I now say, “HAPPY BIRTHDAY, JESUS.”, even though Jesus may have been born in another month or on another day. JESUS WAS STILL BORN FOR A PURPOSE, AND THAT WAS FOR EACH ONE OF US. If we refuse to accept that, He will refuse you on Judgement Day. REMEMBER THAT.
  
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- AbrahamsSheepdog
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:25am
  @ infected. The whole bible is true. It’s roots are as tree. A tree of life. That is that.
  
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- Eastinfection
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 12:03pm
  Abraham..
  
  I wasn’t disputing the validity of the Bible.
  I was disputing the implication that the Catholic Church is Satanic.
  
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- LibertyOrDeath12
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 8:03pm
  Catholic Church follows the root of all evil, money and have lots of it.
  
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Polarized America
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:37am
.
..Children stop arguing …it’s Christmas …../;-)

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- kickagrandma
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:20am
  Funny. Seems I heard that a time or two growing up…. Of course, it was meant for my brother and not for me.
  
  MERRY CHRISTMAS to you.
  
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- Polarized America
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:30am
  .
  MERRY CHRISTMAS…..KICKAGRANDMA……and everyone as well …
  
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pagraywolf
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:32am
This info was put out there a long time ago. How could anyone but unbelievers not know this?

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- ChildOfTheKing
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 3:26pm
  .because there are ‘christians’ and then, there are ‘followers of Christ’. THERE IS A VERY CLEAR DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO. Almost everyone nowadays calls themselves a christian because they believe in God, a higher power that is the Creator of all. so-called Christians a LOT OF THEM, are lukewarm, meaning, they do not live their lives SPIRITUALLY, which means, praying and reading the Bible on a daily basis and then practicing what Christ preached.
  
  The luke-warm Christian will not enter Heaven, says the Bible.
  King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)–> I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. [[Revelation 3:15 ]
  
  So, those of you out there who PLAY as a Christian and do not follow Christ FULLY, then, guess you are in for a rude awakening.
  
  I do believe that those who actually PRACTICE WHAT THEY PREACH BIBLICALLY AND ARE FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT, WILL BE THE ONES AND ONLY THE ONES, WHO WILL BE IN THE RAPTURE. Luke-warm christians WILL NOT GO IN THE RAPTURE.
  
  And, if you tell me that God is a God of love and that he would not leave you behind, well then, YOU DIDN’T REALLY READ YOUR BIBLE, DID YOU? God is also a God of vengeance and judgement!
  
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- TheCalmOne
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 6:06pm
  CHILDOFTHEKING – are you familiar with the “No True Scotsman” fallacy?
  
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- LibertyOrDeath12
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 8:08pm
  Just because I don’t go to Church, doesn’t mean I am a Lukewarm Christian. So many Churches are frauds. What makes you not think that maybe people are going to the wrong Church. You must accept Jesus Christ in your heart and try your best to follow the commandments. And yes, most Christians now a days just say. I believe in God, so I must be Christian. Wrong. I tried all my life preaching to others about Gods Word, but guess what? Nobody cares or listened. I’ll keep trying and accept Jesus in my heart and ask for forgiveness if I make a mistake. But by me not going to church doesn’t exclude me from Heaven.
  
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- searching for the Truth
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 10:09am
  Little Liberty : Don’t let the liberal use of ” Lukewarm ” discourage you. However, to be a servant of God, one must have a sanctuary to direct others to , for baptism, fellowship, healing, and conversion. Either, one takes on that responsibility themselves,or leaves it to a pastor. We all have a commission from God to tell the world about His Wonderful Sacrifice and why He made ” It.” In God’s Word , He says, ” To remember (recall ) the things He does for us. ” Just one little word sometimes can encourage someone; and likewise, just one word can discourage. We do not know our hearts- only God does – God does the calling – we can not force someone. ” Our hearts are deceitfully wicked . ” We must continually address our souls – through prayer and fasting ; otherwise, if we don’t doctor the soul – oh, well , you know. But, if one does an analogy on cold, warm, and hot – note that the molecules of water are excited when hot – doesn’t God possess this perspicacity – how can one be one of His without being excited and tell others about Him. Consequently, if one is cold ,it would follow that one tells none about this Wonderful Salvation of His alone.
  
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- mcsledge
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 3:24pm
  LibertyOrDeath12 – You may want to rethink that stance. Christ, Himself, taught that unless a man is born of water (baptism) and of the Spirit (Holy Ghost), he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. He would not have said it if He didn’t mean it.
  
  At the same time, there is but one God, one faith and one baptism. All others lack the authority to seal in heaven that which is performed on earth.
  
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John 1776
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:31am
Missed another big one- Pictures of the Nativity show the “wise men” in the stable. Truth is, they didn’t come until (10) days later, at which point Mary and Joesph had secured a room with their 10 day old baby Jesus.

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- Nahash
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:38am
  The wise men came two years later.
  
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David-FL
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:23am
Jesus was born during the Roman census, where each person had to return to their home town to be counted. No Roman Governot would make people walk vast distances during the winter. jesus was most likely born in the Spring or Fall. December 25th is a Pagan holiday “blessed” by the Roman Catholic Church. Paganism pervades Roman Catholocism which even moved the Lord’s Holy seventh Day Sabbath from Saturday (the 7th day) to Sunday (the 1st day). of course the “church” has no authority to change God’s Holy Law (10 Commandments).

Luke 2:1
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)
The Birth of Jesus
2 In those days Caesar Augustus(A) issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world.

Daniel 7:25
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)
25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.

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- St_Michael_Catholic
  Posted on December 27, 2012 at 7:23am
  Glassaudioguy – Saying that King James was Catholic is like saying “Arlen Spector was a Republican”, was he really? Secondly, if he truly was Catholic why did he pass the Popish Recusants Act of 1606 requiring Catholic to swear an Oath of Allegiance to him of the Pope? Doesn’t sound very Catholic.
  
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Via Dolorosa
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:22am
The Bible tells us to steer clear of manmade tradition. Had He wanted us to take (just “one”) day and celebrate His birth, I think He would have mentioned a date in His Word.

The devil is the author of confusion – keep that in mind.

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- kjfreeze
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:28am
  Another “give me a break” post.
  
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- ChildOfTheKing
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:28am
  @Via Dolorosa:
  ANOTHER PERFECT TRUTH, but not a sin.
  
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- eddie333
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 12:18pm
  In an effort to win pagan converts, the Christian church mixed pagan/manmade traditions with Christianity. Pagan traditions are a big part of Christmas and Easter. Because of this, I tend to not make a big deal of either holiday, in the worldly sense. Pentacost is a bigger deal, yet how much of a buzz does it get, even in a church.
  
  Throughout the New Testament, we see a greater emphasis on salvation available through Christ and the importance of winning lost souls to Christ, getting unbelievers to accept Christ as their Lord and Savior.
  
  We would serve God better–and be deserving of His blessing, as individuals and a nation–if we took more time to speak the Word to the unsaved, rather than spend the bulk of our time being politically active. Being PA is important but if we spend more of our time on that, are we leaving enough time for God?
  
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David-FL
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:22am
Jesus was born during the Roman census, where each person had to return to their home town to be counted. No Roman Governot would make people walk vast distances during the winter. jesus was most likely born in the Spring or Fall. December 25th is a Pagan holiday “blessed” by the Roman Catholic Church. Paganism pervades Roman Catholocism which even moved the Lord’s Holy seventh Day Sabbath from Saturday (the 7th day) to Sunday (the 1st day).

Luke 2:1
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)
The Birth of Jesus
2 In those days Caesar Augustus(A) issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world.

Daniel 7:25
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)
25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.

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- kjfreeze
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:27am
  Give me a break. Oh ye who casts the first stone…
  
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- LRC
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:27am
  Well, there you go, how stupid the Christian world is. Thank you for setting us straight.
  
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- Via Dolorosa
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:38am
  Kudos for being one who is actually telling God’s truth about Christmas and its origin.
  
  With that said, I noticed you cited from the NIV (New International Version) – please, please do some research into the NIV – and all of the other secular man written “versions” of God’s Word.
  
  The only Bible we have is God’s Word which is to remain unaltered not messed with in any manner. The only Bible that has been proved over the centuries is the 1611 Authorized King James BIBLE – note this is not a “version” (i.e. KJV) – it is not a “version” of any book – it IS The Holy Bible and the one in which we will all be judged by.
  
  https://www.google.com/search?q=NIV+altered+text&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=3pW&tbo=d&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&sclient=psy-ab&q=NIV+is+false+doctrine&oq=NIV+is+false+doctrine&gs_l=serp.3..0i22.331213.334890.0.335292.18.17.0.1.1.0.396.4068.2j3j6j6.17.0.les%3B..0.0…1c.1.y-BsQXzmHPQ&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.1355534169,d.eWU&fp=a7e118819f5e1e5b&bpcl=40096503&biw=843&bih=483
  
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- SovereignSoul
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 12:42pm
  That’s the Bible that states, “Thou shalt not kill.” I think your opinion might be met with some objections around here.
  
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- TheCalmOne
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 6:03pm
  VIA DOLOROSA – Yes, because a book written by a royal committee in England, 16 centuries later, in a language that didn’t even exist at the time of the purported events just has to be the most authentic Bible, hasn’t it?
  
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- glassaudioguy
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 10:05pm
  @VIA- you DO know that King James was a Roman Catholic? The only thing “authorized” about the KJV was that it had official government approval. There were at least three other “authorized” versions before it such as “The Bishops Bible.” Besides, printing Bibles back in those days was often a break-even if not slightly money losing proposition, so publishers weren’t likely to print any other versions. BTW, our own Pilgrim forebearers used the 1599 GENEVA Bible, not that new-fangled KJV! That didn’t become the primary Bible in the states until after we won independence from Britain. The KJV omitted the notes from the Geneva Bible which the Catholic King James-I found so offensive.
  
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- St_Michael_Catholic
  Posted on December 27, 2012 at 7:22am
  I LOVE when theological discussions find their way to “versions of the Bible”…
  According to Christian history the first “Bible” was as a result of the work of St. Jerome when brought all of the accepted texts together and produced what historians now know as the “Old Latin Vulgate” version of the Bible, this was in 406 A.D. The “King James Version” was not completed until 1611 A.D.
  Anyone with a linguistics background will tell you that the more times you translate something the further you get away from the translation’s original meaning. This is why I, as a strong practicing Catholic, chose to use the Douay-Rheims Version of the Bible. For those that are not familiar with the Douay-Rheims version it is an English translation of the original “Latin Vulgate”. The New Testament was first published in 1582A.D. and the Old Testament was published 1610 A.D.
  Via Dolorosa – you say that the KJV is “the one in which we will all be judged by”. With that said, can you explain to me why the KJV has seven fewer books in it than the Catholic accepted version. If I felt that the KJV was the authoritative and found out that it had seven fewer books than the Catholic version, I would probably find Revelations 22:19 (And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from these things that are written in this book.) a little worrisome.
  
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Eastinfection
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 8:59am
Jesus must have been relieved to learn that he really wasn’t born on Christmas..
A friend of mine was born on December 25th and she was always upset that everyone was too busy Christmas Day for her to have her birthday party.

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Psychosis
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 8:55am
im guessing its possibly more speculation ……..maybe

:)

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- carnivour
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:07am
  Well, I’m speculating it’s more guessing :D
  
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- Eastinfection
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:50am
  I’m absolutely certain that one or both of you might be correct.
  
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- Schteveo
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 2:21pm
  I think you folks are looking in the wrong SECTION of the Bible for Jesus ‘heritage’.
  
  Go look through the Old Testament. I’m no Biblical Scholar, so someone other than I will need to speak up. But if memory serves, Prophesy told the Who, What, Where of Jesus Birth.
  
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- truthnstuff
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:22pm
  There is 0 prophecies in the Tanakh (OT) about Jesus birth. All there is about the messiah’s birth is 2Sam.7:12 which states that he will be born of David’s “SEED”. That means his father (physical father) will be descendant of the line of David.
  
  The god-man cannot be anywhere in the (OT), since he cannot even be found in the historical record. Christian writers are not historical record.
  
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- ProudInfidelToo
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 10:10pm
  TRUTHNSTUFF said “There is 0 prophecies in the Tanakh (OT) about Jesus birth.” Actually there are a lot of prophecies in the OT about Jesus’ birth. There are approximately 100 about his birth, life and death.
  
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waspanglosaxon
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 8:54am
One of the main misconceptions is that Jesus Christ was born of jewish parents. The Bible clearly states that Mary was from “the land of the Gentles”.

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- AtTheReady
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:16am
  WASP, where does it say that in the Bible that Mary was a Gentile? In fact, if you read through the Gospels, you will actually see there are two different lineages listed for Jesus, both in Matthew 1, and in Luke 3 beginning at verse 23. Because of the differences in the lines, one is believed to be Mary’s line, one is believed to be Joseph’s. Additionally, if Mary was a Gentile, then Joseph would not have even been entertaining the idea of marrying her before the angel appeared to him, and especially not if she was pregnant before he’d been with her. Also, in Luke ch1 we have Elizabeth identified as Mary’s cousin and John the Baptist’ mother, described as being a descendant of Aaron, Moses’ brother – confirming both her and Mary’s Jewish bloodline.
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:25am
  Actually the bible doesn’t clarify who Mary’s ancestors were, or where she is ‘from’ exactly.
  
  It does she’s the cousin of Elizabeth who was said to be decended from Aaron’s lineage, and therefore tribe of Levi. Depending of Mary’s relationship to Elizabeth… If it was on paternal side then she could have been a Levi herself. If it was on the maternal side, some believe it may have been Judah and Davidic line like Joseph.
  
  Technically Aaron’s wife was from Judah, so all decendents were from both Judah and Levi.
  
  Both Mary and Joseph livein Nazareth in Galilee.
  
  In anycase the various ‘rumors’ going around as implied in the gospels that Joseph knocked up Mary (and denied he was involved), Mary was knocked up by someone else (and Joseph was noticeably upset). Or as Christians believe that the Holy Spirit came unto her, and left her pregnant with Jesus (now two ways to interpret this Jesus had the “DNA” of Mary and the Holy Spirit”, or that she was simply a ‘surrogate’ holding a baby placed inside of her by the Holy Spirit, in which case the baby does not have any DNA from either parents).
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:39am
  “you will actually see there are two different lineages listed for Jesus, both in Matthew 1, and in Luke 3 beginning at verse 23.”
  
  I think the issue with this ‘interpretation’ being that Matthew 1 leads up to “joseph”, and Luke 3 begins with Joseph and works backwards.
  
  “Luke3: 23 Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat,
  
  “Matthew 1:15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob; 16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.”
  
  Mary isn’t mentioned in Luke 3 (only Joseph in context of it being his lineage), and Mary is only said to be wife of Joseph in Matthew 1, in the context of Joseph’s lineage… The bible is very patriarchal/paternal when it comes to lineage.
  
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- tzion
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:55am
  What does “land of the gentiles” prove anyways? There were substantial Jewish populations in Rome itself at the time.
  
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