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Here’s a List of Tax Hikes & Fees Coming With Obamacare Next Year

Dec. 25, 2012 6:55am Billy Hallowell

(TheBlaze/AP) — Starting in 2014, President Barack Obama’s health care law will expand coverage to some 30 million uninsured people. At the same time, insurers no longer will be allowed to turn away those in poor health, and virtually every American will be required to have health insurance — or pay a fine. Insurance will be available through an employer or a government program or by buying it on their own.

For the vast majority of people, the health care law won’t mean sending more money to the Internal Revenue Service. But the wealthiest two percent of Americans will take the biggest hit, starting next year.

Heres a List of Some Tax Hikes & Fees Coming With Health Care Reform

Photo Credit: AP

And roughly 20 million people eventually will benefit from tax credits that start in 2014 to help them pay insurance premiums.

Here’s a look at some of the major taxes and fees, estimated to total nearly $700 billion over 10 years.

- Upper-income households. Starting Jan. 1, individuals making more than $200,000 per year, and couples making more than $250,000 will face a 0.9 percent Medicare tax increase on wages above those threshold amounts. They’ll also face an additional 3.8 percent tax on investment income. Together these are the biggest tax increase in the health care law.

- Employer penalties. Starting in 2014, companies with 50 or more employees that do not offer coverage will face penalties if at least one of their employees receives government-subsidized coverage. The penalty is $2,000 per employee, but a company’s first 30 workers don’t count toward the total.

- Health care industries. Insurers, drug companies and medical device manufacturers face new fees and taxes. Companies that make medical equipment sold chiefly through doctors and hospitals, such as pacemakers, artificial hips and coronary stents, will pay a 2.3 percent excise tax on their sales, expected to total $1.7 billion in its first year, 2013. They’re trying to get it repealed.

Photo Credit: AP

The insurance industry faces an annual fee that starts at $8 billion in its first year, 2014.

Pharmaceutical companies that make or import brand-name drugs are already paying fees; they totaled $2.5 billion in 2011, their first year.

- People who don’t get health insurance. Nearly 6 million people who don’t get health insurance will face tax penalties starting in 2014. The fines are estimated to raise $6.9 billion in 2016. Average penalty in that year: about $1,200.

- Indoor tanning devotees. The 10 percent sales tax on indoor tanning sessions took effect in 2010. It’s expected to raise $1.5 billion over 10 years.

The 28 million people who visit tanning booths and beds each year — most of them are women under 30, according to the Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology — are already paying.

Tanning salons were singled out because of strong medical evidence that exposure to ultraviolet lights increases the risk of skin cancer.

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Comments (290)

Earnyourkeep
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:39am
But liberals keep insisting that all this will help us and that only the rich will have to foot the bill…..Bwahahaha. And democrat sheeple keep falling for this fairy tale.

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- NOT A CRAZY
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:16am
  “Indoor tanning devotees. The 10 percent sales tax on indoor tanning sessions took effect in 2010. It’s expected to raise $1.5 billion over 10 years.”
  
  Where is the uproar over this tax? This tax 100% singles out WHITE WOMEN.
- dcatkin
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:49am
  Well when you put a moron in charge, you get moronic results. This has nothing to do with health care, and everything to do with raising taxes.
  
  It was done under cover of night, and behind the peoples backs, and still people are in love with this idiot. For those of you who voted for Obama, you get what you deserve, but the problem is that I will get it also, and so will every other person in this country.
  
  Obama needs to be 86ED from office right now.
  
  Free Our Country
  
  Report this comment
- Detroit paperboy
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:52am
  Come to my hometown and spend a few days and nights ……get a good look at what Democrats can do to an entire city…..that’s what’s coming nationally…
  
  Report this comment
- Mojoron
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:59am
  There is also a $69 one-time tax this year on every person at tax time to pay for Obamacare, they forgot to mention that. Even those who usually do not pay taxes will have to pay it.
  
  Report this comment
- Hobbs57
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 12:42pm
  My mother works for a major healthcare provide in Pa. She said that before the election, the company handed down 2 separate folders listing the changes that would result as an outcome of the elections, 1 for if Romney won and the other for if Obama won. She said the one for Romney had one paper with a list of maybe 10 changes. She said the one for Obama was at least 30 pages and required various protocol and training as a result. She said it is a beurocratic nightmare, what the company will have to go through, let alone those who are receiving the healthcare. While she is a democrat, but had already made up her mind to vote for Romney long before this, she said she was somewhat supportive of Obamacare until then. As I had tried to explain to her previously, a great deal of the legislation and rules pertaining to Obamacare haven’t even been created or determined yet. A great many of the many, many agencies and department’s handling the bureaucracy of it haven’t even been created. She was shocked Obama won, as I had felt the same way, even suggesting that somehow the votes were manipulated. The ball was already moving in so many ways with changes already implemented for Obamacare, I am sure there were a number of resources available to push the voting through. I am 37, in college, and you wouldn’t believe the BS that went on for forcing the students to vote. Like cattle in. Also, my lazy sister on welfare, had her benefits renewal date move up, to just before the election.
  
  Report this comment
- Mustanger
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 12:50pm
  @notacrazy, sorry you are wrong. It’s 99% white women and John Boener.
  
  Report this comment
- jjoy
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 3:41pm
  @NOT A CRAZY
  
  “Where is the uproar over this tax? This tax 100% singles out WHITE WOMEN.”
  
  Yep, but not a single one of them has filed a federal EEO suit…
  
  Report this comment
- bigbear_awake
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 4:34pm
  WhITE PEOPLE ONLY not raciest
  
  Report this comment
- VoteBushIn12
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 4:35pm
  @NOT A CRAZY
  
  No it doesn’t?
  
  I know men that go tanning, I know hispanics that going tanning, and I have black friends that go for the occasional vacation primer.
  
  There’s no 100% about it.
  
  Report this comment
- turkey13
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 5:50pm
  Health Care along with everyones wealth will all be evened out. Obama told Jo the Plumber he would spread the wealth. I can’t wait for the part about spreading the wealth. I read somewhere that the Obamas were only worth a little over a million bucks in 2007 and 4 years later are now worth $$16 million bucks. I guess he will wait untill he leaves office to give us all that money. Scre_w those free phones, I want the money.
  
  Report this comment
- Improvise.Adapt.Overcome
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:09pm
  VoteBushIn12
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 4:35pm
  @NOT A CRAZY
  
  No it doesn’t?
  
  I know men that go tanning, I know hispanics that going tanning, and I have black friends that go for the occasional vacation primer.
  
  There’s no 100% about it.
  
  Are you one of those guys thats not racist because, “one of your best friends are black”? This really the conversation you have with them, is whether they get a primer before vacations? Not only that, you decided you better go ahead and ask your hispanic acquaintances as well?
  
  Report this comment
- Bum thrower
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:31pm
  As long as the REPUBLICANS control the House; DON’T CHANGE A THING; the ‘Lib-tards’ will LOVE their “FREE” insurance!!! “let them eat cake”…
  
  Report this comment
- Lamarr01
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:05pm
  Correction: John Boehner doesn’t use a tanning booth he uses a spray-on tan that only covers the surface. It’s much like his conservative ideology. He can spray it on when there are cameras around and wash it off when he goes back to his office.
  
  Report this comment
- VoteBushIn12
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 12:39am
  @IMPROVISE.ADAPT.OVERCOME
  
  I’m not trying to pull the race card. I’m identifying my relation to them to further justify my claim that non-whites and non-females ALSO go tanning. Rather than just stating that “I believe” it to be the case, I’m saying “I KNOW” it to be the case because of personal, firsthand experience.
  
  And you clearly don’t have any friends if you’re asking me what is and what is not socially acceptable conversation.
  
  But alright, for your sake, I’ll clarify. I don’t have to outright ask them if they go tanning to deduce that they go tanning. Here’s an example.
  
  “You want to grab lunch tomorrow?”
  “Can’t I’m going tanning.”
  
  Here’s another:
  “Sun Kissed is giving 50% off 10 minutes tanning on wednesday, I’m definitely going!”
  
  Hopefully that clarifies things a little.
  
  Let me know if you have further questions…
  
  Report this comment
- DJR
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 7:31am
  Don’t forget the hidden tax increase from the reduction of the amount you can contribute to a health savings account, which comes out of your paycheck pretax.
  
  Report this comment
- Improvise.Adapt.Overcome
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 9:58am
  VoteBushIn12
  
  The fact you felt compelled to respond to my post, and justify your position, just proves it true. Thanks for your holding up your end.
  
  Report this comment
- Pizzor2000
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 2:50pm
  @Not A Crazy
  
  You have a point. I’m sure many of the young women who voted for Obama’s promise of free pills and unrestricted abortions are the same ones who are now paying a good chunk more for their regular tans. Doesn’t this bother any of them even a little (if they’re even aware of the tax)?
  
  Report this comment
- anolesboy
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 3:35pm
  Bush, Bush, it’s all George Bushs fault that taxes will go up. When the Democrats were in complete control of both houses of Congress and Obama they failed the American Taxpayer because all they wante to do was blame Bush.And after 4 years they still are pointing there fingers at Bush.
  
  Report this comment
- Keatonc333
  Posted on December 27, 2012 at 12:22am
  “For the vast majority of people, the health care law won’t mean sending more money to the Internal Revenue Service. But the wealthiest two percent of Americans will take the biggest hit, starting next year.” Did you miss this part of the story? did you even read the story? And those people will get tax breaks to help foot the bill. read the story at least man!
  
  Report this comment
- Keatonc333
  Posted on December 27, 2012 at 12:25am
  Not a crazy… id feel worse about this if you couldn’t do the exact same thing for free by going outside. plus its healthier for you. Its not a race thing its a necessity thing. I get taxed out the A too whenever i buy a pack of cigarettes.
  
  Report this comment
- Keatonc333
  Posted on December 27, 2012 at 12:27am
  Avoid racism! lay in the sun! idiots!
  
  Report this comment
- keepyourpower
  Posted on December 27, 2012 at 2:06am
  And you know what is really crazy?…I bet MORE women use skin products to lighten their skin than those light skinned women, who tan. I know..I am in the beauty industry! Yet..he does not TAX them!
  
  Report this comment
- VoteBushIn12
  Posted on December 28, 2012 at 11:01pm
  @IMPROVISE.ADAPT.OVERCOME
  
  If you prefer to have your comments ignored and not addressed, I encourage you to not post on this site and instead go back to arguing with whatever wall you enjoy flapping gums with. Most forums prefer the conversational engagement.
  
  This just proves I’m right. (as always)
  
  Report this comment
matinva
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:39am
America fought one war to rid ourselves of exactly this kind of fraud. If you voted for Owebama, you own this disaster.

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- BODYBAG
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:30pm
  @MATINVA
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:39am
  America fought one war to rid ourselves of exactly this kind of fraud.
  —————————————
  We need another one now.
  This is such a joke. The “law” gets rammed through by the nuclear option in a DEM controlled
  House & Senate. It contains layer after layer of “mechanisms” to supposedly “pay” for it [as outlined above].
  
  But as the time grows nearer for implementation, more and more “exemptions” are codified
  for every special group, parts are repealed [taxes on medical manufacturers mentioned above]
  so that in the end much of the “revenue” that was supposed to pay for it is gone.
  
  Guess who pays?
  
  Report this comment
- AgentP
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:28pm
  Sadly, the last election proved that the game has been won and the country is over. How can anyone possessing gray matter not see it? Obama lost huge amounts of support in all demographics from 2008 and Romney had way more enthusiasm and support from republicans than did Palin & McCain….but somehow on election day, he was re-crowned with stronger numbers. It seems impossible because it is, and was. Also, look at the depth of cover-up for the bamster….Libya-first ever non-support of Americans under fire requesting support, Petraeus poking his biographer while running the CIA ( no story here), the ‘fiscal cliff’ was just around the next curve in the road but nobody heard about it until aday or so after the election was fixed… the list is long. Oh yeah, Chief Roberts decided the Imperial Class (Congress) can tax citizens for any reason including healthcare.
  
  All the while we had talk radio, FNC, The Blaze, et al doing all they could, which was absolutely nothing. It is over boys and girls and there are no parting gifts for you in the lobby. Just keep stocking up on food, guns and ammo. Teach your kids to be good marksmen and hunters. Live your lives and forget about this exercise in futility. Step off the hamster wheel and recognize your insignificance is equal to that of Glenn, Rush, Levin, Hannity and the rest of the people who are wasting your time
  
  Report this comment
hugo65hsv
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:10am
What a wonderful group shot of the Socialists.. See how happy they all are… They just love the government, such a great big toy, and the masses they can have power and control over with it..

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- hatchetjob
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 1:49pm
  HUGO, I noticed the jolly photo too, it’s sickening. They couldn’t wait to stick it to us.
  
  Report this comment
Joyzee
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:01am
Regards to the above picture’ smiles and deep breathing from the Messiah’s broken wind!

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B-Neil
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:00am
Medicare just went up 5% on me. The Government does what it wants when it wants. We are no longer in conrol of Government. They succeded in seperating the Power and the Powerless. Welcome to the NEW WORLD ORDER

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- TommyGuns
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 2:11pm
  Your Medicare Part B premium went up by 5%, but the increase was at least less than or equal to the increase in your Social Security in total dollars. Medicare Part B premiums will be roughly $105/month beginning next month. But the average Social Security check for 2012 – $1,230 per month – will increase by 1.7%, or about $21 per month. The Part B Premium increases are based on projected outlays for the number of people who elect to be part of the program. It is a voluntary program. If you think that your annual medical expenses under Part A – the free part of Medicare – will not exceed $1,260 you should consider dropping Part B. No matter how you look at it, Part B is a real bargain for most people, and if your income is below a certain level, you qualify for extra help for both your prescriptions and co-pays, and in some states, you don’t pay for the premium itself. I recently changed Medicare Advantage providers because I could get the same coverage, with slightly higher co-pays for my doctors, at no monthly premium. No matter how you look at it, Medicare Part B is a very good bargain. The government wastes a hell of a lot of money on worthless programs, and isn’t exactly frugal in its expenditures, but I think they do a great job with Medicare. It is going broke, like Social Security, and probably needs to be revamped. But for now it’s one of the best run government entitlement programs available to those of us in our golden years.
  
  Report this comment
- samsilver
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 5:15pm
  yep
  
  Report this comment
Joyzee
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:58am
Sharpening the Chisel to chip away American God Given Right’s these Proud Hypocritical Elitists Drunken with Power will soon Smash the other Hand with their Own Hammer!..you may quote me.

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lel2007
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:41am
In the photo above it appears as though Nancy has something more going than borak signing something. Where are Harry’s hands?

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- IMCHRISTIAN
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:46am
  Thanks for that image as I was drinking coffee at the time and about spit it all over me lol.
  
  Report this comment
- Grifter58
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 5:34pm
  He’s purposely (for the camera for future gloating – “look Nancy, the useful idiots have not a clue”) gettin stinky fingers and she’s enjoying it!
  
  Report this comment
- Apple Bite
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 7:14pm
  Harry’s hands? Fondling himself reading Cowboy Poetry and Nancy’s fancy. Those two can’t get out of Congress fast enough for my liking.
  
  Report this comment
- Teaparty-grammy
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 12:27pm
  Probably up Nancy’s skirt–that’s why she has that idiotic grin on her face. Oh, wait . . . she ALWAYS looks like that, because she is a MORON.
  
  Report this comment
PA PATRIOT
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:12am
http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/fundamentally-changing-america-obama-then-and-now-video-montage_05312012

Socialism
A perfect plan by the Progressives
Merry Christmas

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- Full_Fathom_Five
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:19am
  Frankly, this is just the tip of the iceberg. In Rieman’s THE VAMPIRE ECONOMY, published in 1939, the author describes the techniques and methods used in the Fascist state. He makes a distinction between Communism and Fascism by stating that Communism is when the government comes to your farm and takes all your cows away. Fascism is when the government comes to your farm and takes all your milk away–leaving you still with the bills for the feed, the shelter, the medicine, and the labor for maintaining the herd–only to come back a short time later and once again take your milk away. The latter scenario is the direction in which we are headed–the increased prices are simply side effects–the prices act as a deflection to confuse the useful idiots and puppets from the real mechanism working here. What’s next? Perhaps, the retirement accounts of individuals and the working capital of businesses will be forcibly redirected by law into special federal accounts–which will be stolen by the government (just like Social Security). Just wait and see! They will “protect” these funds for “our” own safety–just like the Germans did to their citizens in 1933.
  
  When called a Nazi by some far left loon, Jonah Goldberg, former editor of the National Review, asked the guy, “What is it about Nazism that you do not like? For other than the pan Germanism, militarism, and racism, the Nazis implemented the same programs into their society which you would like to see put in place here.
  
  Report this comment
PA PATRIOT
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:08am
As of May 31st 2012
Hang on for the next four years.

National Debt Then: $10 Trillion
Now: $15.7 Trillion (Up 57%)

Jobless Rate Then: 7.8%
Now: 8.3% (officially)

Food Stamp Dependence Then: 28.2 Million
Now: 46.2 Million (Up 63%)

Price of Gas Then: $2.50 /Gal
Now: $3.68 /Gal (Up 47%)

Price of Beef Then: $2.35 /lb
Now: $3.01 /lb (Up 28%)

Price of Bacon Then: $3.75 /lb
Now: $4.60 /lb (Up 23.3%)

Price of Bread Then: $1.97
Now: $2.05 (Up 4%)

Families with no Savings Then: 18.%
Now: 23.4%

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- cbrown
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:18am
  How about all the positive ones:
  
  DOW at 13K, it was at 6.5K
  
  HDTVs, Laptops, .. now 30% less expensive
  
  Manufacturing has seen a resurgence
  
  Next four years: 11+ million jobs, unemployment below 5%, GDP – 20T, Food Stamp (SNAP) down by 20%, Debt/GDP ration less thaa 80%, home prices up by 10+%, DOW at 16K, … Thanks to Obama, life will be better.
  
  Report this comment
- PA PATRIOT
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:29am
  Cbrown
  Dream on.
  
  Report this comment
- Ugly John
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:32am
  I want some of what CBrowny is smoking. That’s gotta be some potent product. Hey Skippy, got any actual, you know, data to back up your laughable claims of utopia? Didn’t think so. Merry Christmas and lay off the rum eggnog, dorkwad.
  
  Report this comment
- Frederick_Douglass_Republican
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:36am
  cbrown; keep on smoking that weed
  
  Report this comment
- Frederick_Douglass_Republican
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:37am
  @ugly john – Thats funny you said that! My impression as well
  
  Report this comment
- cbrown
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:53am
  @Ugly John
  
  Merry Christmas to you too.
  
  Any specific data you want to challenge. I can provide references to them. In fact I can give you my forecast for 2013.
  
  Report this comment
- PA PATRIOT
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 12:34pm
  Cbrown
  Talk is cheap.
  Show the facts.
  
  Fact is YOU CANNOT FORECAST ANY ECONOMIC TRENDS.
  Corporations are going off shore because of the current adminsistration.
  Face the truth..
  Put that in your pipe and smoke it!
  From a staunch Capitialist
  
  Report this comment
- GerriDavid
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 12:35pm
  cbrown……The Dow was just about the same when Obama took office as it is now and you call that progress? This administration is the reason it slipped to 6k in 2008. If you care to check, over the last century you will find the Dow was almost always higher under Republican administrations than under Democrats. If fact, the highest Dow average ever was under George W. Bush. Anyone can predict the future, and thousands do so every year….however the chances of getting it right are minuscule. Your predictions have about as much chance of being right as we have of Obama resigning the Presidency and Chris Christy taking over.
  
  Report this comment
- Evileye
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 12:59pm
  CBrown
  It would be nice if a lot of people could get a Job and then get off food stamps
  so they could buy the cheap TVs and lap top.
  That are manufactured in China.
  
  Report this comment
- Racemosa7
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 12:59pm
  How about all the positive ones:
  
  DOW at 13K, it was at 6.5K
  
  HDTVs, Laptops, .. now 30% less expensive
  
  Manufacturing has seen a resurgence
  
  Next four years: 11+ million jobs, unemployment below 5%, GDP – 20T, Food Stamp (SNAP) down by 20%, Debt/GDP ration less thaa 80%, home prices up by 10+%, DOW at 16K, … Thanks to Obama, life will be better.
  
  You are looking at the one side of the coin.
  Dow up Dollar down, wheel barrel soon needed.
  
  HDTVs, laptops made over there by cheap slave labor for the soon to be slaves here who fill there minds with garbage.
  
  Employment down? It is not what you make but what you take home that matters. 100% employed with 0% spendable after…
  
  Manufacturing up, in China but not here. You were told that by someone else, I manufacture and know the truth.
  
  Report this comment
- getourcountryback
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 1:00pm
  CBROWN, I see why you are brown. From having your head up your liberal progressive socialist ****. If you believe that this POS president can create ANYTHING, let alone 11 million jobs you don’t even need legalized pot to be classified as on drugs. You are a moron tool and can’t wait for your paycheck to decrease and then have you stand around wondering what the he!! happened. YOU IDIOTS happened. Merry FN Christmas to you bozo.
  
  Report this comment
- cbrown
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 1:19pm
  @PA PATRIOT, @GerriDavid
  
  First my forecast for 2013: (based on Vanguard)
  
  Employment: 2M+ jobs, 50K+ manufacturing
  GDP: 16.5T, Q4’13 GDP growth 3+%
  DOW: 14K, S&P may grow a bit faster
  SNAP (Food Stamps): Down by 3+% (trend change)
  
  DOW was at 6,5K on March 9th 2009. Generally the employment growth is best under Democratic presidents. DOW performance under Republican (110%) and Democrat (109%) were similar but S&P Democrats (206%) did better than Republicans (171%).
  
  I’m a capitalist who believes in Obama who (center left President).
  
  Report this comment
- Wiley41
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 1:24pm
  CBrown,
  
  Almost not worth my time, but do you notice the “positives” you listed listed, you listed as “in the next four years”.
  
  You obviously have never done anything with you life. Ever hear the phrase past performance is the best indicator of future performance? What about the last 5 years under Der Oboer-Fuerer makes you think that suddenly he will succeed where he has been the biggest failure of any president in history on basically every metric?
  
  Let me put this is the vernacular that you might understand, in your wheelhouse if you will: Your comparison and fantasy is like me stating that in the next 4 years Lindsay Lohan will become a nun, set up a rescue mission, public ally repent for her sins, give up all drugs, give up all of her money in a vow of poverty, and become the ideal role model for all of our girls, and Not have another DUI.
  
  So do you want to bet on Whois right. I’ll give you 1 million to 1 odds that in next 4 years Lohan will be arrested again and Obama will since this country into the deepest debt ever, get us downgraded again, devalue our dollar, initiate hyperinflation, oh and for good measure he’ll play lets say over 300 rounds of golf, spend over 20 million on his travel and family travel?
  
  You can send me a cashiers check when you are serious
  
  Report this comment
- cbrown
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 1:38pm
  @Wiley41
  
  You did not read my email completely. Obama’s first four years was good. Let me help you with some facts:
  
  1) 3rd Qtr GDP as 3.1%
  2) Highest deportation of illegals
  3) Education – Race to top applauded even by Republican Governors
  4) Saved the Auto industry.
  5) Thanks to Obama’s policy we were able to pull ourselves out from the biggest Financial crisis
  6) Al-Qaeda leadership decimated and steady foreign policy
  7) Increased Oil and Gas production to highest level
  
  … I can go on but facts may not make a difference for you.
  
  Report this comment
- ArmedAndReallyPissed
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 1:52pm
  CBROWN………I would like to make only one correction to all of your posts : Obozo is not a President. Obozo is a Communist Leader of the Socialist States of AmeriKa. Merry Christmas.
  
  Report this comment
- Wiley41
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 1:59pm
  See the one-eyed-brown monster,
  
  Obviously it is you who do not care for facts. Maybe you should read something more than the Daily Kos.
  
  As a famous man once said you are entitled to your own opinion, but to you own facts.
  
  FACT: Unemployment Rates (source BLS)
  
  When Obama Elected (Nov 2008): 6.8%
  When Obama Emaculated (Jan 2009): 7.8%
  Current rate (Nov 2012): 7.7%
  
  So worse than elected and statistically the same as when he was sworn in.
  
  Additionally peaked at 10.0%
  
  Average during Obama’s first reign: 9.01%
  
  To be continued
  
  Report this comment
- Wiley41
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 2:04pm
  Brownshirt,
  
  Please of please try to refute my facts. Again notice in your posts you do not quatify. You list 1 quarter GDP and generally say education is better and auto industry is saved. S let’s see your actual numbers. How are generalizations true.
  
  I will continue to list actual numbers here in more posts. Lets see you refute real numbers not your drug induced fantasy of things will be better, because we’ll they will be , because we’ll I say so
  
  Report this comment
- ArmedAndReallyPissed
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 2:06pm
  OK CBROWN. I changed my mind. Your bragging about the Stock Market. First of all, the Stock Market is high because your King, Obozo is having his grunt Bernanke print Billions of “free” Dollars every month. That’s what is supporting the Markets. You talk about Electronics getting so much cheaper. I have breaking news for you. Electronics get cheaper every year and have for decades. Your King has nothing to do with that either.
  With the Fiscal Cliff a certainty, because your King wants it to happen, and Social Security “Entitlement” Payments being reduced along with ObamaScare kicking in, Small Business is going Extinct. Only those in Washington, mostly your King, will benefit from all of these changes because these changes DO NOT APPLY TO THEM.
  Your King and his Communist, Murdering, Treasonous and Lying Cohorts will all be the New 1% one day, and the remaining 99% of US, including you, are nothing more than Sheep to the Slaughter.
  Your King is a Murdering, Lying Communist. Since you praise him, i see you as one also. Screw you. How dare you have an Avatar with the American Flag in it !!! Your disgusting.
  
  Report this comment
- Wiley41
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 2:11pm
  c-marijuana brownie,
  
  FACTS Cont’t
  
  Again from BLS
  
  Labor Force Participation Rates:
  
  When Obama elected (Nov 2008): 65.8%
  When Emaculated (Jan 2009): 65.7%
  
  Now (Nov 2012): 63.6%
  
  Month over month, more and more people left the work force every month Obama has been in office.
  
  Additionally this is the lowest rate in decades!
  
  Basically approximately 30 million fewer people are working today then when Obama took office, and this number has grown each month Obama has been in office.
  
  Adjust the previous FACTs n the unemployment rate the real rate at the same labor force participation as when Obama took office and started to smash the economy would be 11.7% now!!!! Ad is only down to 7.7% because so many have stopped looking for jobs.
  
  Report this comment
- Wiley41
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 2:18pm
  Brown,
  
  FACT: credit downgrade
  
  First ever downgrade of US credit rating by Standards’s and Poor’s AAA rating came in August of 2011. Wait what is that date again? Oh yeah that is August of 2011, so many years into Obama’s reign. Can’t say he inherited this one when he was already in office for over 2 years and almost 3 since he was elected.
  
  Oh but you say it was because he had Republican congress blocking him, nope again here Obama had a full Demo House and Senate for first 2 years.
  
  The following day the S&P fell by 7%
  
  From Moody’s own site, they are planning on another downgrade early 2013
  
  These are facts stupid.
  
  Report this comment
- cbrown
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 2:27pm
  @Wiley41
  
  If you point is things weren’t rosy then I agree. After a financial crisis like the one we had things were supposed to get bad. You can cheery pick some points and show some stats, not sure how that helps. I am not clamming things were perfect but they were better than what you expected from President Obama. It will be even better the next four years, again it won’t be perfect. Time will tell… I have my predictions for next year and let us see.
  
  Report this comment
- gunner1434
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 2:28pm
  Hahaha you think obamas done a good job by funding Al-Qaeda and the mexican cartell? or by puting more mind controll into public schools? or by takeing are rights away? or by destroying the economy by this communist (luciferian) agenda? to side with the UN with their made up global warming and there NWO? you must be one of these guys that are on the CIA payroll that go on sites and blogs to discredit the truth and attack people trying to spred it.
  
  Report this comment
- Wiley41
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 2:31pm
  Browner,
  
  Now some FACTS for comparison to OBamas real numbers listed above, here are Bush the younger’s numbers on unemployment.
  
  When Bush took office (Jan 2001): 4.2%, then we had that little hiccup where the financial sector was literally smashed as their buildings fell and still unemployment do to Bush’s agenda only peaked at 6.3% by June of 2003.
  
  Now remember actual number facts, Obama’s lowest unemployment is 7.7% that’s a full point and half higher then Bush’s highest rate.
  
  Average for entire Bush 8 years: 5.15%
  
  Report this comment
- Wiley41
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 2:37pm
  Hey Brownie is this who you admit defeat?
  
  1) I’m not cherry picking. As you can see I am (unlike you) giving actual data facts. I am giving you all the numbers and unlike you not just 1 quarter or sweeping generalities like education is better.
  
  And to show you I am not cherry picking, what have I posted like 6 times now here with facts and I can continue and continue.
  
  2) Nope, not gonna let you fall back on that debating fallacy. ‘Well I agree with you that things were bad initially’. Dude wake up things were bad at the beginning and look at the data things are worse on almost every metric too. Yep things were bad at first and Obama has made them worse ( again see unemployment numbers coupled with labor force participation)
  
  3) amazing how you progressives live in your bubble and never open your minds to logic. I have yet to see you refute any actual numbers I have listed, and to keep you quiet there is more coming unt you wise up (not likely) or shut up.
  
  Report this comment
- Blazer58
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 2:40pm
  Cbrown-
  1. Printing of money causes a bubble called the stock market.
  2. Private companies nothing to do with government regulations. ( hard to feed a family of four also)
  3. You are fu…. Crazy and just another Uninformed voter
  
  Report this comment
- Wiley41
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 2:46pm
  Had enough yet brownie?,
  
  FACT: gas prices
  
  Lets talk something that effects all Americans either directly through fueling up their cars to get to work or indirectly by rises in prices of goods moved as freight. forget your again non-specific, well electronic prices have come down, here is real data of gas
  
  Average Gas Gallon across US (jan 2011) as Bush takes office: $1.47
  By time Bush left office (jan 2009): $1.78
  
  I know how horrible bush was that it grew by 31 cents!
  
  Oh wait to be fair this was the most peaceful period of time in the Middle East so gas prices were stable
  
  Obama takes office (Jan 2009): $1.78
  Now (Nov 2012): $3.41
  
  But to be fair it has come down from where it peaked this last summer after 3 years of ObAma at over $4 a gallon
  
  Report this comment
- cbrown
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 2:56pm
  @Blazer58
  
  Stock Market is up because company earnings have gone up. That is reason why they have 2T in cash. They haven’t invested yet b/c of lack of demand and clarity on the fiscal situation. 2013 – both of these will get better and we will see more investment from the private sector. There is no stock market bubble..time will tell.
  
  Report this comment
- Wiley41
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 2:56pm
  Love this one Brownie,
  
  “Obama saved the auto industry” In the vernacular of the youngins, LOL
  
  FACT:
  
  Not so much saved as threw money down a whole at it to artifically prop it up.
  
  Us government spent $49.5 billion, yep thats a billion on a company that had negotiated itself out of solvency through unsustainable benefits to cost ratio mostly from ridiculous benefits to the union mafia.
  
  n 18 Dec 2012 the US declared sell back of the remaining stock at a significant loss. To just break even we would have to have sold the stock at $53 dollars per share but we instead sold it for about half at $27.50
  
  Also notice how Ford and Toyota who did not take bailouts have thrived where GM cannot. Flaming Volts anyone?
  
  Report this comment
- Wiley41
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 3:04pm
  Brownie you sending me a Christmas card yet?
  
  FACT: the national debt
  
  So in Jan 2009 as Obama took office we sat at $10.6 trillion
  
  Today (25 dec 2012): after over four years of Obama: $16.4 trillion
  
  I also seem to remember he swore he would cut the debt in half. Well he is onl about $11 trillion off and going in the wrong direction. But then again CBrown has some special forecast Sophia will turn around and rather than add $6 trillion in next four years he will cut it by $11 trillion
  
  Never mind the FACT: that his openly admitted tax cheat Secreatary of Treasure has overseen at least 3 quantitative easing periods of printing money. This has significant,y devalued our dollar. if I did it it would be called counterfeit and I’d be put in jail, since Obama does it then the libs rejoice.
  
  Report this comment
- Wiley41
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 3:08pm
  Ok brownie,
  
  Gotta take a break now from schooling you. After all it is Christmas and I need to play some more with my kids..
  
  Still waiting on you to actual put up numbers or to refute my facts or your resume
  
  Recess, I’ll come back later for your next lesson. Read chapters 2-3 And be prepared to discuss.
  
  Report this comment
- cbrown
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 3:15pm
  @Wiley41
  
  You can keep bombarding 100 more messages that does not make you right. You do have some good points but most of it is irrelevant. For e.g. gas price: It is a world price dependent on supply and demand. Most Presidents have zilch to do with it. It is very low in 2009 because we were headed into a depression and now it is bit high because we are expecting better times.
  
  Also, who cares about average unemployment, we need to know what it is today. During the dark days of the financial crisis recovery things were bad – no one is disputing that. Thanks to Obama’s policy today the picture on unemployment is better..
  
  Labor Force Participation Rates is down but it was going down in 2008 too. 2008 it went down from 66.4 to 65.8.but it got worse during the financial crisis and recovery period. Older Americans are retiring out because of globalization. Demand for 5o+ mid-level managers is declining very fast and some of them are going out of the work-force. This among all is the worst stat of Obama years.
  
  Auto industry was saved because of Obama. It was a tough decision which Republican hedge fund folks say this. Check out CNBC Squak Box last Friday.
  
  Report this comment
- Wiley41
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 4:02pm
  Brownie,
  
  Give you props for staying on your talking points. How much they paying you trolls now?
  
  But again you fail to either refute my facts, offer your own numbers, produce your resume, or speak the truth.
  
  Now I know why Beck named one of his books, arguing with idiots. You guys really have no grasp of logic and refuse to see ducks for ducks.
  
  1) Gas prices were low in 2009 because we were going into recession? So why were they lower in 2001? Guess we were going into recession then too. And if so why did they stay low during pretty much most of Bush 8 years? And I guess the economy most be doing gang-buster now if the price has almost double in Obama’s first four year? Do you really believe what comes out of your mouth?
  
  2) yep I can continue to post honest to god true numbers and not just my nebulous hopes and dreams, and fantasy forecasts like you. It not only makes,y right it backs me up and they make sense .
  
  3) I love how you same pele that bashed Bush for every little slightly bad metric ow all claim that oh the President has nothing to do with Unemployment, Gas prices, or Labor Participation Rates.
  
  Yet since I don’t have you CBrown on record in front of me making these statements, unlike you I will be fair and logical and take you at face value that you did not attack Bush for these items. Yet I advise you are on record now, so can’t have it both ways if Conservative gets into office again.
  
  Report this comment
- Wiley41
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 4:06pm
  4) love how you shady types who can’t support their views with data corrupt language to frame your argument. “Gas prices are a bit high now”
  
  A bit high. So to you a jump from $1.70 per galling under Bush and at Obama’s inaguration to average in mid $3 dollars now. That’s almost doubled!!! Is just a bit high
  
  You are no businessman. Guess you lied about that too on your posts. I be bankrupt in a day if I deluded myself that an 83% spike in costs was just a bit high
  
  Maybe you are a bit high, when posting this ( I know cheap shot, but accurate?)
  
  Report this comment
- Wiley41
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 4:10pm
  5) you finally cite a reference and it is Squk Box on CNBC, might as well be MSNBC… Nuf said
  
  6) you said “who care about average unemployment “. Again really? Or that so far out of touch? How about all of the people without jobs, they iChat care about unemployment rate
  
  And again, don’t believe you are a businessman. A businessman does care about the unemployment rate. What are you selling or service you are providing? Pretty basic business that if sell or provide a service you need people working who can afford your product.
  
  Report this comment
- 1TANKERYANKER
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 4:32pm
  CBROWN Your using vanguards #’s ?? Do you think that maybe, just maybe they would have an economic reason to paint a Rosie picture ? Come on man get real, or are you just on obamabot spreading on this site what obama spreads best. B.S.
  
  Report this comment
- cbrown
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 4:42pm
  @Wiley41
  
  We all care about the unemployment rate. What it is today is the most relevant info. Average Unemployment rate – it is rarely talked about and no one cares about that. I have never heard Romney mention that.
  
  CNBC – What is wrong with watching that? I am sure many of your Republican business friends watch this too. Check out with them.
  
  As a businessman I sell service and we had a setback in 2009 but this year we did quite well. If you don’t want to believe that is your choice, not sure why I would want to lie about that.
  
  Report this comment
- cbrown
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 4:50pm
  @1TANKERYANKER
  
  I was talking about ISM Report (Institute for Supply Management) and BLS (Bureau of Labor Statistics). These report show that manufacturing we added 100K jobs in the past four years.
  
  Report this comment
- Salamander
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 7:34pm
  Yea, CBROWN! I can’t wait to have all my friends over so we can eat a a brand new HDTV! Yum, yum! Then, we can watch the price of bacon go through the roof! Hey, hey, hey!
  
  Report this comment
- cbrown
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 7:58pm
  @Salamander
  
  Inflation is less than 2%. I have no idea what crap you feed your friends but in total prices have not risen much.
  
  Report this comment
- Lamarr01
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:40pm
  @CBrown
  
  You say you own your own business and your employees are lucky enough to enjoy health insurance. I seriously doubt you have the first idea about how to start a business and keep it profitable. You should limit your investments to baseball cards and comic books. Economics, finance and the business world is based on reality. You seem to confuse facts and propaganda.
  
  Report this comment
- Berbel73
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:46pm
  Wow Cbrown you sure are guzzling down that liberal progressive koolaid. Our economy is a house of cards built on the fallacies of keynesian economics. We borrow and borrow and then borrow some more. Then the liberal progressives claim that all we need to do is tax the wealthy and everything will be fine. They say that the millionaires and billionaires need to pay their fair share, so they want to increase taxes on those making over 250K per year. Well its the small business owners that will be hurt the most by this not the millionaires and billionaires. Your so called facts are all based on supposedly independant studies, but when you scratch the surface you find that their numbers are all highly manipulated. I’d tell you to wise up and realize that we are all living on borrowed time but it’s quite clear that you are too far gone to be reasoned with. Its people like you that when the shtf and this house of cards comes crashing down will claim that you didn’t know and will say that its the republicans fault and how the wealthy should have paid more. But the truth is that no country in history has ever taxed itself to prosperity, and we are no different or special. You want the real numbers, the real facts of how much trouble we are truely in take a look at this. http://www.usdebtclock.org/
  
  Report this comment
- cbrown
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 9:08am
  @Lamarr01, @Berbel73
  
  I really don;t get your rant. Maybe it makes sense to others. Let’s focus on specifics. I gave you my 2013 forecast (have it below again for your reference). Please give me your forecast and we compare notes next years.
  
  My 2013 forecast: (based on Vanguard)
  
  Employment: 2M+ jobs, 50K+ manufacturing
  GDP: 16.5T, Q4’13 GDP growth 3+%
  Deficit will be down by 30% compared to 2012.
  DOW: 14K, S&P may grow a bit faster
  SNAP (Food Stamps): Down by 3+% (trend change)
  
  Again, last weekend Glenn Hubbard (Romney’s economist) said: “US is the best place to be compared to the other developed nations”.
  
  Report this comment
- cbrown
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 10:08am
  Hoping one of you will stick your neck out and give us your forecast for 2013. I have predicted a very rosy but not a perfect one for 2013, would like to see what a gloomy forecast would be.
  
  It is easy to talk generality but when specifics are called for many of you seem a bit squeamish. Be brave, hold yourself accountable and give us your forecast for 2013.
  
  Report this comment
- aconstitutionalistlivesinbrooklyn
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 11:37am
  @C. Brown
  
  To all your posts, ha ha ha ha ha ha …(riotous laughter).
  On a serious note, the price of oil goes up because we’re printing money and the dollar is devalued. The only reason the dollar hasn’t crashed yet is that other currencies are doing worse.
  
  Report this comment
- Berbel73
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 12:25pm
  Look CBrown, I’ve been to your Vanguard site and I just love how you cherry pick the information from there that fits your pie in the sky arguement. Well here is a litle something that I found there that just maybe you overlooked. it’s an article “Better days are in store”: Joe Davis on America’s economic future, and here is a clip that I found very interesting. Deficits and debts: Time for action –
  But perhaps the most important source of uncertainty relates to our national debt and our fiscal deficits. Without doubt in my mind, how we solve this is the seminal economic and investment issue of this decade, indeed of this generation.
  
  As an economist, I spend a great deal of time studying this situation. I’d like to make three points.
  
  1. Our national debt is not my biggest concern. Is it high? Yes. Currently, our debt represents 70% of U.S. GDP. That is a lot of money. Historically, countries have encountered significant economic and financial headwinds when that ratio has breached 100% of GDP. Believe it or not, the debt has actually been above 100% before, following World War II. And yet, over the next 10 years, there was no fiscal crisis. In fact, interest rates stayed remarkably low. The U.S. economy boomed and the stock market soared.
  (I’d like to add my own assessment here if I may, the two time periods can not be compared. We had the industrial and maufacturing capacity to overcome that high percent of debt to GDP back then, but not so today.)
  
  Report this comment
- cbrown
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 12:29pm
  @aconstitutionalistlivesinbrooklyn
  
  You are right. On eof the factor that impacts price of gas is currency devaluation of our currency. Fortunately the QE programs had a minimal impact on the price of gas. Today the price is same as what it was in 2006. It had more impact on Gold than Gas,
  
  You guys predict this dooms day scenario since 2009, not sure when it si going to happen. After another 5/6 years we will have another recession (normal business cycle) then you may claim victory. Yes, a broken clock is right two times a day.
  
  Report this comment
- Berbel73
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 12:31pm
  2. Today’s fiscal deficit, more than $1 trillion, isn’t my biggest concern either. Is our deficit large? Without doubt. It’s among the highest in our history. Right now, the federal government spends 24% of GDP. Through taxes and other revenues, it takes in 15% of GDP. The difference is the fiscal deficit—9% of GDP. That is a big gap.
  
  To be fair, I would expect deficits, given how fragile the recovery has been. Indeed, bond investors around the world—U.S. Treasury investors—do not fear the current deficit. They do not view it as a significant near-term problem. Interest rates are near all-time lows. In fact, the U.S. government can attain a 30-year “mortgage” for less than 3%.
  
  3. My biggest concern is that fiscal deficits are anticipated to persist indefinitely. This is a big problem because it relates to the sustainability of our debt. If we do nothing to address this situation, by the year 2030—when my young children will hopefully have graduated college and moved out of their parents’ house—our fiscal deficit will be closer to 13% than 9%. And our debt-to-GDP ratio will have doubled to 140%. That is the problem. That is why we are vulnerable, and that is why we must address it. This is critical to our economic future.
  
  Debt data source: U.S. Bureau of Public Debt, as of June 2012.
  
  Report this comment
- Teaparty-grammy
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 12:33pm
  @ Cbrown, who posted: “How about all the positive ones: DOW at 13K, it was at 6.5K HDTVs, Laptops, .. now 30% less expensive Manufacturing has seen a resurgence
  
  Next four years: 11+ million jobs, unemployment below 5%, GDP – 20T, Food Stamp (SNAP) down by 20%, Debt/GDP ration less thaa 80%, home prices up by 10+%, DOW at 16K, … Thanks to Obama, life will be better.”
  
  Another delusional, brain-dead liberal spouts off after drinking his latest dose of Obama Kool-Aid. I don’t for the LIFE of me see how you people can so BLIND/STUPID.
  
  Report this comment
- Berbel73
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 1:04pm
  So the key question is how to solve this. What needs to be done? Well, from an economic perspective, the solution is actually fairly simple. We need to close the gap. Balance the budget.
  
  The good news—and believe it or not, there is actually good news on this topic—is that there are a number of credible bipartisan plans that would be effective at addressing this situation, if they were only enacted.
  
  Now here is where the author and I differ in opinion. The democrats in washington will not cut spending on entitlement programs, period. They simply will not do it. Their only answer is for “increased revenues” to solve the problem, i.e. more and more taxes. The economy can not and will not grow when the law makers in Washington continue to siphon off more and more money from the private sector to fund their social welfare programs. There is going to come a tipping point (it’s the Laffer curve and I assume that you have heard of it) where over taxation reduces the amount of revenue brought in. And none of this is by accident, hello… Cloward and Piven, overload the system, have you not heard of any of this before? You need to wake up to the reality of the trouble that we are in CBrown! If we don’t start voting into office more fiscally responsible representatives, our country is finished, and you will have no one to blame but yourself. And believe me when I tell you, just like elephants are known for having long memories, we won’t forget how we got here.
  
  Report this comment
- cbrown
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 1:05pm
  @Berbel73
  
  Concern on Fiscal deficit is very valid one. Both Democrats and Republican are responsible for this and I believe they will start to bring it down. For 2013 it is expected to to be 700B but I will not be surprised it is closer to 600B at the end.
  
  Unlike most of you, I believe President Obama is concerned about our debt too. By 2016 he may have a balance budget or close to it. His balanced approach will prevail and he will be able to get a significant Democrats to make entitlement cuts. I confess some of this maybe wishful thinking but I more optimistic than others.
  
  @Teaparty-grammy
  
  I agree, I cannot for LIFE of me see how you people can be so BLIND/STUPID.
  
  Report this comment
- Berbel73
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 1:36pm
  CBrown, what actions have the democrats taken in the past that leads you to believe that they are willing to make the neccessary cuts and changes to entitlement programs that will balance the budget? How can you make that claim when you have Harry Ried and Nancy Pelosi stating outright that they will not endorse any bill that includes cuts or changes to entitlement programs. And they aren’t the only ones. The democratic party is full of progressives who while they won’t come right out and say it (yet!), are marxists and socialists who don’t believe in the capitalist system and want to see it destroyed. I mean Hello we have people in Congress like Ms. Maxine ‘we’re all about taking over your business’ Waters and you don’t think that they have an agenda? Your naivety is breath taking.
  
  Report this comment
- cbrown
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 2:26pm
  @Berbel73
  
  You do bring up good points and many very valid reasons to be skeptic of the Democrats.
  
  I believe both the Democrats and Republicans are positioning themselves for the grand bargain. The compromise will not be easy and base of both the party will hate the deal but most Americans will like the deal and it will get done. It may be a combination of multiple deals in 2013. They both understand the consequence is not going to be good. They don’t want the market to force the deal on them.
  
  Report this comment
- 54smom
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 5:35pm
  cbrown where in the heck are you getting these numbers…They don’t add up and the stock market is irrelavent. We get bad numbers and it goes up. Someone is screwing with the numbers. But yours are just plain crazy. The low information minions may believe you but not us.
  
  Report this comment
- cbrown
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 6:34pm
  @54smom
  
  Tell me your forecast for 2013. We will compare the actual to your and my forecast and see who is crazy one.I bet you won’t (maybe you can’t) b/c you are the low information minion.
  
  Report this comment
Charbet
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:03am
I see one in the picture who actually resembles a rodent. I won’t mention any names though.

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- MIKEYB
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:32am
  I see 15 rats in that picture.
  
  Report this comment
- drakk2010
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:57am
  You see 15 rodents who made themselves EXEMPT from obozocare…That’s why they are smiling….
  
  Report this comment
waspanglosaxon
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:02am
This whole ‘Obamacare’ thing is so ridic. Most people who don’t have health care don’t have it because they can’t afford it. So what are they gonna do? Put 50 million people in prison?

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- civilwarcometh
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:04am
  They will come for any property you own to pay off the fine first. Then jail time. I can’t afford health ins. can’t afford the fine and i’m not giving up my property and i’m not going to jail. I will die in my front yard defending my freedom………
  
  Report this comment
- cbrown
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:33am
  We are tired of free-loaders, making me and you pay for their emergency care.
  
  Report this comment
- macpappy
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 1:01pm
  CBrown
  Where I come from, you are the free loader. Taking from the producer to give to the recepient class.
  
  Report this comment
- Wiley41
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 1:42pm
  CBrown,
  
  Lets see your resume. would love to see what productive work you have done and why you are not a freeloader. Every lib like you I have ever met has sucked at the government teet and taken more than they gave.
  
  Perfect example, tell me what your messiah Obastard did to contribute?
  
  Report this comment
- cbrown
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 1:42pm
  @macpappy
  
  A bit about me: I have my own business, all my employees have health insurance and was lucky enough never to have taken any assistance form the government. So, why am I a free loader?
  
  Report this comment
- TeresaJ
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 5:26pm
  We have it currently, but I am more than willing to give it up, look them in the eye and challenge them as an American citizen to my right not to buy insurance if I don’t want it.
  
  Obamacare is nothing but a Communist crock, fining people to force them to pay for something they may or may not want. I definitely don’t want the monster who wanted to let live babies die dictate over what can or cannot be covered in my insurance. And I definitely have the right to not be paying for STDs or baby murder otherwise known as abortion.
  
  Report this comment
- ranepowel
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 12:39pm
  This post by Wasp just truly shows the level of ignorance spouted by people on these boards. If you would read for even two minutes you would know the answer to this “question.” People that make up to 400% of the poverty level will be given tax credits to offset the expenses of having healthcare. My sister, for example, makes about 25k a year and she will qualify for having over half of her healthcare costs subsidized by the government. Meaning, when she goes to the exchange to pick insurance on January 1st 2014 the will be able to pick an insurance policy for say $200 dollars a month, but will only pay about 85 dollars a month as the rest will be subsidized.
  
  Secondly, if you choose not to have health insurance you’ll only owe about 1,200 the first year as a fine and a little more after that. It has already been stated and PROVEN IN COURT that the fine raised against you cannot be taken by force or criminal action. Rather, if you choose not to pay the fine your credit will be affected as you will be essentially defaulting on your payment to the federal government. Non-payment, however, will NOT be treated the same as tax-evasion.
  
  Basically, there is no reason why anyone cannot get health insurance starting next year. If you can’t afford $85 dollars a month on a 25k job, then you’re doing something very, very wrong. And if you “don’t want health insurance” well too bad. I don’t want to have to pay higher premiums every year because you don’t have health insuran
  
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macpappy
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 8:39am
i have has four years to figure out how to put my income underground. These idiots can mandate all the taxes that they want to, but unless you work for a company that takes your taxes out without your say so, there is no way to enforce collection of such high taxes.
So, they can get theirs like Drack got his, in blood.

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- smv803
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 7:07pm
  I like your thinking macpappy. We can also have a game plan…..that’s the beauty of the mind.
  
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TwoLazy
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 8:23am
Oh bye the bye, did you notice the picture of the room full of lovely Progressves signing the “Affordable Healthcare Bill,” you know for the good of America, the one that Congress has exempted themselves from.

You just know it’s gotta be good if these slime bags don’t want anything to do with it. What was that one … “Equal justice under the law ….” yeah right.

Let’s see we are have the ruling class and us peons.

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- dcatkin
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:57am
  Obammy is doing anything that he can to destroy this country, and Obamacare is just to get the ball rolling, next it will be the second amendment, and then freedom of speech.
  
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- AugustKat
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 3:18pm
  Oh, Congress won’t be exempt, Twolazy. Had they disregarded Pelosi’s advice and READ the bill, Congress would have found out that they will be subject to the bill (starting 2014).
  
  Members of Congress and their staff will only be offered health care plans through the exchange or plans otherwise established by the bill (instead of the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program that they currently use).
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obamacare#Effective_by_January_1.2C_2014
  
  ^ Public Law 111 – 148, section 1312: “… the only health plans that the Federal Government may make available to Members of Congress and congressional staff with respect to their service as a Member of Congress or congressional staff shall be health plans that are (I) created under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act); or (II) offered through an Exchange established under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act).”
  
  Let’s see how fast they carve out an exemption for themselves, or the unions demand an exemption for federal workers.
  
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TwoLazy
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 8:18am
I’ve given this a whole lotta thought, at this point in time with the country as divided as it is I don’t see any way to vote these people out of office to correct this Republic and put it back on its original course. Yes, we can vote some out here and some out there, but I see no way to oust the number it will take to gain enough power to solve the crisis we have. As it is today, we’ve witnessed how a one and one-half party system works.

I don’t see HR25 ever getting off the ground and the ability to repeal the 16th Amendment and the income tax; therefore we will still have the “regressive income tax” hanging around our necks with the gastapo IRS at the helm. Politicians love the control over the citizens that the income tax regulations provide them. I don’t see the repeal of the 17th Amendment and returning to the original concept that U.S. Senators should be appointed by their respective State Legislators, because I can’t possibly see a US Senator passing a bill that will terminate his/her job.

What I do see is people fed up with this Washington crap. However, the price to be paid to restore this Republic to its Constitutional roots would be as costly as it was in 1776. I’m not sure what the answer is, but one must be found and soon.

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- tess q
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:12am
  split the country in half.the left wants nothing to do with the right and the right doesn’t need the left. i have been saying this since 2004 when the hate got so bad from the left that it became apparent there was no turning back. that hate eats everything inside and now we have a president that relies on hate. not good at all. back in 2004 a friend of mine and myself started figuring out how we could seperate the country. it can be done over a period of time if we put our minds to it.
  
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- PA PATRIOT
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:42am
  2 lazy and Tess,
  
  My sentiments exactly.
  
  I am not sure how to respond to the new IRS laws as I am a small business that employs 4 fulltime people but my wife and I produce over the threshold. Basically I am screwed. I did all the right things, buy a house at 28, paid it off in 15 year, purchased rentals, gave up much, never took a trip out of the country,…. now to have it absconded and stolen by politicians who want to rule my life. I am entrenched in a business that has done well, but keeps my feet in cement in “Philthadelphia”. A place of offensive liberal unethical practices. The local government is drunk with power and if one does not comply with their illegal participation, or be part of the “gang” that individual and family is pushed aside and shunned. That has become the norm. No conscience or honor here in the birthplace of Liberty.
  
  Last evening I tried to find some solace in the fact that 236 years ago to the hour, George Washington and very brave and committed soldiers crossed the Delaware where he won his first battle after many defeats. Perhaps the time has come to once again gather at Valley Forge.
  I don’t know.
  Merry Christmas and God Bless America.
  May the Lord have mercy on our children.
  
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NoMoMrNiceGuy
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 8:10am
Merry Freekin Christmas – Now here is your TAX ! Screw Em’ I will not comply !

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nilo
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 7:57am
People, remember that the Democrats are the party tht passed this ObamaCare. Not a single Republican voted for it. But were they punished in 2012? NO! They were rewarded for their despicable act. The freeloaders, the uninformed and the no-show at the polls Republicans rewarded the Democrats in November. The Bible is right again. ” Whatsoever a man sows, that will he also reap.” (Galatians 6:7) As Isaiah Wright said, “The chickens have come home to roost”. The ungodly man did speak a truth in respect to ObamaCare. ObamaCare will never be completely repealed — not as long as the freeloaders, the uninformed, and the no show at the polls voters don’t change.

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- oceanbnd
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 8:04am
  And as long as the freeloaders have a say in it all, we won’t change it. That is the FIRST law we have to change or these bad/wrong decisions will never end.
  
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- TRILO
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:41am
  And just what was Romney going to do? He was going to “repeal and replace” Communistcare. He was in favor of the mandate, the preexisting medical clause, insuring your adult children, etc., just as much as the Liar in Chief. Paul Ryan is a big government spender just like the democrats. Look at his record under Bush and the Liar…. spend, wars, bailouts, light bulb bans, etc.
  
  I blame the republican party for once again giving this country a choice between a cr@p sandwich and a pile of cr@p. There are darn near as many republican free loaders out there as democrats.
  
  Now the republicans are jumping on the bipartisan bandwagon of higher taxes for the “wealthy” on everything from income taxes, caps on deductions, doing away with tax free municipal bonds which will devastate cities, counties and states on their ability to have low cost funding and it will aise costs to all taxpayers. Wow with friends like that in high places who needs enemies.
  
  Do not blame the republican “no shows”, put the blame squarely on the republican party elite and RNC. Not much you can do about the moochers as they are in every party.
  
  One silver lining is the moochers in society will pay in the not too distant future when the system takes a full blown nose dive when the goose that laid the golden egg goes dry. Bonn Appetite.
  
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- hatchetjob
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 2:02pm
  TRILO, If the system is going to take a nosedive, I hope it happens soon. I’m tired of preparing, I’m tired of waiting. Let the chips fall. Perhaps thin the parasitic herd a little.
  
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- AugustKat
  Posted on December 26, 2012 at 3:31pm
  My parents and I tried to explain about Obama to my oldest niece and my nephew. Unfortunately, while my mother and I voted against Obama, the niece and nephew voted FOR him.
  
  I have another niece who will be of voting age in the next presidential election. Hope she watches and learns from what’s happening.
  
  In the meantime, the House (where all tax law is supposed to start) can hold up funding for Obamacare. We have a midterm election in 2014, barring any impeachment proceedings.
  
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NOCOMMIESPLZ
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 7:56am
Tanning salons were singled out because of strong medical evidence that exposure to ultraviolet lights increases the risk of skin cancer.

LOL!! please, tanning salons were singled out because it is a way to target whites. African-Americans don’t use them.

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- TheFederalist
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 8:16am
  You mean the blacks. There are no African- Americans. The blacks were born here, so they are Americans… black Americans.
  
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- Jenny Lind
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:46am
  As a person who has had two rounds of malignant melanoma, I would rather see them closed. Stupid ” I’m gonna live forever” woman who use them have no idea what is coming down the road. They do it for looks, and do not think they will be the ones with disfigured face’s and bodies, or just dying for beauty. No, I never went to one, but I have been a gardener all my life and didn’t know until well into adulthood the sun could do so much damage, or how to stop it.
  
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- getourcountryback
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 1:08pm
  So Jenny Lind, you advocate that other peoples rights to do as they wish to pursue THEIR freedoms is outweighed by YOUR opinion on matters? So, if I think that all people who use a nail salon are being stupid by having chemicals put on their fingers it would be okay for somebody to advocate taxing them out of existence, right? I mean, stupid acetone users, how dare they want to have a personal choice. Sorry you got cancer but is that MY problem?
  
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- Wiley41
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 1:44pm
  So you admit you never went to one, but you know they are bad so you want them banned.
  
  Sounds like from your story we should tax or ban gardening.
  
  Stupid
  
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Harry19
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 7:53am
Why don’t we march on Washington and tar and feather those people in office like out fore fathers would do.. That would be a good start,also take away all of their benefits.

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- macpappy
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 8:35am
  The Secret Service, U.S. Army, Washington Police, etc. Thats why.
  
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- Fourthhorseman
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:08am
  MacPappy: Dude, seriosly? You think Secret Service, U.S. Army, Washington Police are going to do anything if a million or 2 armed Americans show up in Washington? That is the key, they have to be armed. They don’t have to ever fire a shot, but they must be armed. They must also demand they will not leave until a constitutional convention is held with the 1st amendment proposal being that congress, the senate or the president cannot exempt themselves from any law or program they enact.
  
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- AZgirl9000
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:13am
  FOURTHHORSEMAN, do you really want a Constitutional Convention with this bunch in charge? Imagine how much more “fair” and “progressive” they would make our new Constitution.
  
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- 1TANKERYANKER
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 9:15am
  Harry19, I like your suggestion we should have done that a long time ago, Macpappy is right I don’t think we could get enough people to storm the gates, without having mass arrests, what I fear is that we need to call on our brothers and sisters in the armed services to remember the oath they took and for ALL of us to forcibly remove our current political overlords and replace them with every day Americans who fear Gods judgment and love God and our great nation.I for one would be proud to be a part of that movement, to give our children and grandchildren the same America we grew up in.Where would we start ? Where would we do the planning ? Where would we recruit ? And with todays modern surveillance would we even be able to pull it off ? I know that we would need God’s divine intervention, It’s possible but we need some great minds, Anyone have ideas on this ?
  
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- 1TANKERYANKER
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 4:08pm
  CBROWN I’m not sure what institutions your referring to but our politicians have every reason to lie to us, They are the ones that are manipulating all of our information. If you want the true numbers listen to the businesses they are the ones dealing with the rise of socialism in our nation, and they are all screaming that we will not be able to continue on our current path.
  
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- Salamander
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 7:55pm
  I think the voting public needs to take a little responsibility, here! We need to engage one another in political debate, economic debate, social debate, etc. We need to take back our country a the ballot box! This will be a very difficult fight, but it is one that needs fresh air and sunshine! The debates need to be open! No more affinity group this and affinity group that caucus! The way do our political laundry stinks! The press needs to get involved–not to promote THEIR agenda, but to fairly REPORT OURS! It may be too late, but I think Americans are very resourceful and can work miracles! We need to unwind so much of our government! And, as we do, we need much of it to withstand the rigors of the marketplace–and those that have merit will surive–those that are pure fluff (free this for one group and free that for another, with no legitimate source of funding–only tax one group to ‘feed’ the other)! I hear sob-story after sob-story as beggars approach! I see more and more pan-handlers (that make more than I do working!) And, I’m going to start asking them ‘Who did you vote for’! If they give the WRONG ANSWER, THEY GET NOTHING! If they give the RIGHT ANSWER, I’ll do my best to help them get back on their feet–but not by handing them a penny of my precious cash! Nope! They’ll get a ‘business card’ with The White House phone number on one side and a Job Opportunity on the other!
  
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oceanbnd
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 7:51am
Words are the way to take action peacefully. It is the only way I see to take action that makes sense. Unfortunately as I look around at the work place most of those I work with agree with Obama’s actions and voted for him. No matter how much I talk (in the work place), they do not listen to me when the obvious continues to smack them in the face. Marxism hasn’t worked in the past and won’t work now. People who don’t listen are doomed to repeat the past. Good luck to all of those readers who realize what we ALL are in store for. Prepare…

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- old white guy
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 8:09am
  words have been working so far,,,,NOT…. every year government grows, freedom is erroded, taxes go up, regulations and laws restricting what people can do are expanded. jeez, how many more words are going to bounce of the 52% of leeches in society??? cry, moan, weep, wail and pray but i will tell you prayer without action will leave you with nothing.
  
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hauschild
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 7:26am
Actually, this is all good news in a sick way.

We all agree (and history has proven) that Marxism is NOT a long-term solution in governing. It might work for a generation or three, but other people’s capital eventually runs dry as the system is exposed yet again as a complete an utter sham; designed to make it’s implementers wealthy beyond imagination, but leaving everyone else wallowing in serfdom.

So, let’s help collapse this puppy. The sooner the madness ends, the sooner things can be rebuilt. I’ll admit it is an asinine method, but most Americans are complete idiots and lack self discipline and accountability for their themselves.

Instead of putting up a phony facade, Cry Baby should do the Marxist regime one better by adding 25% to 50% more taxing and spending than that requested. Tear off the band-aid quickly, so to speak.

All that we’re doing here is preaching to the choir. Most Americans are unable or unwilling to think independently, so why are we fighting the inevitable??? Let’s put this puppy to bed already!

And, before it becomes illegal to do so, Merry Christmas!!!

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- oceanbnd
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 7:56am
  Hauschild, I am right there with you. Let’s rip the band off and bleed it out. These idiots don’t want to fix the real problems in America, then let’s just show the idiots what will happen “right now”. The sooner the better. Let’s get it on, so we can get it over with and move on.
  
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- Shamrock241
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 8:49am
  100% Agree, I’m not getting any younger so i rather do what has to be done now than when i’m to old.
  
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Gregb
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 7:18am
the destruction of America – obama’s legacy

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- oceanbnd
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 8:00am
  Half of the people in this country won’t ever blame him for the destruction, so that’s a lost cause. All we can do is hope they have the sense at some point to deal with the solutions and put a REAL president in office who will. Hopefully we can still save the country.
  
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- cbrown
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:12am
  The GDP was 3.1%, housing is improving, manufacturing is coming back, DOW is at 13K, … Economist are forecasting a good 2013. Next four years would be good one. Thanks God we have Obama as the president (i shudder when I think of the alternatives).
  
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- 1TANKERYANKER
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 12:46pm
  CBROWN, I work in the transportation industry and can tell you that without a doubt manufacturing in America is not coming back because we are not moving it, we would be if it were. Not only that but I see more and more business closing and our infrastructure is falling apart. Whenever you see numbers being given to us by politicians remember this, THEY ARE MANIPULATING THE NUMBERS AND LYING TO US. One only needs to open their eyes and look around.And before anyone calls me an Obama hater it is the republicans and democrats both playing us like cheap musical instruments that is destroying America
  
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- cbrown
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 1:45pm
  @1TANKERYANKER
  
  I do believe in our institutions. That is the greatness of America, we have built great institutions unlike other countries. I blindly believe their numbers b/c they do not have a self interest in manipulating them. If I’m naive to do it, so be it.
  
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Isis79
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 7:15am
Funny how America fought a revolution over taxes and a King telling us how to live. How did we regress to our original starting point? Sad.

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- Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 7:21am
  Indeed…and the truly sad state is too few Americans are bothering to do anything about the rise of Emperor Caligula-Obama.
  
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scrapadapolis
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 7:10am
Wow doesn’t the guy to the far right look stalin?And of course the horse face is showing her teeth like a horse looking for an apple.Im sorry thats an insult to horses.

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- RJJinGadsden
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 7:23am
  Uhhh, Henry “Nostrolitus” Waxman favors Stalin? Or, do you mean the guy who is seated? LOL, either way, that was funny.
  
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- nighttrainno9
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 8:22am
  Your talking about Henry ( the ratman) Waxman I presume.
  
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Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 7:05am
More taxation, more fees and fines, more grab for our money by an out of control Federal government under Obama. How long does anyone honestly think it will take for the Democrats to raise the fees and taxes across the board and in new areas via Obama-care to gain more control and power over our lives?

There will be no end to the runaway usage of regulations under Obama-care to intrude and control more and more of our lives.

To those who voted for Obama, may you enjoy the nightmare you wanted so badly.

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- Isis79
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 7:29am
  I totally agree with you Snowleopard, the question is what are we as Americans who care going to do about it. Sadly myself included all I see is people complaining and not doing anything. When “We the People” take meaningful action instead of meaningless words maybe something will change. I will let you and others interpret action however you wish. Good post.
  
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- Think_4_yourself
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 8:53am
  Snow and Isi, there will not be a rise up, the machine is too big. They will squash the pockets of resistance quickly and swiftly, the internet will be soon regulated so as to hinder communications. Why do you think fema, homeand security, SS admin and a dozen other departments bought 1 billion rounds of hollow point ammo? They are storing around in various parts of the country in various buildings. They know what they are preparing for, by the time the population finds out it is too late.
  
  We are going to fundamentally change America, boy howdy, that’s the only truth spoken out of his lips.
  
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- Isis79
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 10:04am
  I find your words and thoughts to be disheartening Think_4_Yourself. I would much rather die a patriot than live as a slave.
  
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- Think_4_yourself
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 11:53am
  Isis, I would rather not live in a state of denial, the hard cold truth is that we lost the country some time ago, there are a select few that have woken up to the fact. I was not suggesting that you should live in slavery, but I find it amusing that there is a whole bunch of “we’re not goona take this” attitude. Let’s look at the reality of it now, it’s not going to happen, the government is too well equipted to allow a “revolution”. They have check and mate on the citizens.
  
  It’s all big talk and no action from a whole bunch of people. I suggest you carve out your little piece of life and hunker down, whether it be in your home state or another country.
  
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- Isis79
  Posted on December 25, 2012 at 1:42pm
  I understand what you are saying Think_4_Yourself but to think the country is lost is the worst kind of thinking and apathy to me. One bullet or massive protest can change history and for the better. The problem in America today is that we are purposely divided on so many issues by politicians because they want it that way for again obvious reasons. Look at how our society is saturated with platforms for pleasure and you can easily see why people are weak in mind and spirit. I was raised to believe in the Constitution, freedom and this country which I will never give up on because “We the People” do have the power it just seems we are too ignorant to see it. I am not afraid of the government and am willing to do whatever I can to change it for the better even if that means my death. I find it sad others don’t feel the same.
  
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JACKTHETOAD
Posted on December 25, 2012 at 7:02am
…and Wyatt’s Torch is about to be lit…

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