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Glenn Beck and West Point Psychology Prof. Discuss Social Impact of Violent Video Games

Jan. 3, 2013 10:01pm Tiffany Gabbay

Last night, Beck asked viewers to consider the root of the horrific Newtown school shooting that left 28 — including 20 innocent children — dead. Rather than look to America’s gun laws, the outspoken Beck turned his attention to something more subtle, and perhaps deeper that may be at play: the detrimental psychological effects violent video games and movies are having on impressionable children.

To help delve into the matter, Beck hosted special guest Lt. Col Dave Grossman, West Point Psychology Professor, Professor of Military Science. The Army Ranger is considered one of the nation’s foremost experts on PTSD and is a scholar in the field of human aggression and the roots of violent crime. He noted that what today’s video games do is provide a reward for killing each target until there is none remaining that it has conditioned human beings to derive “pleasure from human death and suffering.”

The veteran also observed that since technology is advancing, by logic, people dying of gunshot wounds should be rapidly on the decline, but disturbingly that does not seem to be the case. He also pointed out that mass-murderers like Adam Lanza should not be referred to as “shooters” as it places a negative connotation on everyday people who simply know how to shoot a gun.

In comparing the innocence of yesteryear with the more jaded bent of society today, Beck recalled that when he was young, it used to be about “cops and robbers.” The lines were clear as to who the “bad guys” were and not blurred as they are today. He then asked if it was possible that Lanza had a moment where reality set in before he turned his gun on himself.

The discussion was fascinating and the insights provided by Grossman were both scientifically founded and informative. For instance, the Lt. Col observed that in 5,000 years of trained combat, there has never been “one recorded time in the history of the world” where a juvenile has committed crimes such as those brought to bear at Sandy Hook.

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Comments (208)

reality based lifeform
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 9:27am
Look like most of the gamers posting here are in denial . Why is there an epidemic of violence in society today . It all comes down to programming . Children by design are made to absorb whats going on around them growing up . In years gone by this imprinting typically done by parents was basically survival skills teaching them how to function as adults in the world .
(religion, morals,values,etc) In ancient times in very violent societies children were exposed to (programmed) extreme violence and this served as a survival skill to help them as adults .
Now in these times most parental imprinting is overshadowed by a contant barrage of detrimental anti-social behavior via television, movies ,video games and kids are soaking it all up . The Entertainment and Gaming industry don’t want to accept any responsibilty
for there role in all of this because of the profits at stake . Do movies and video have to be violent ?
They never used to be and were quite successful . Hollywood producers will argue they are only giving the masses want they want and risk poorly grossing films otherwise . This is akin to a drug dealer saying he is just providing users what they want with no thought of the impact of society.
People now crave violent media because this is what they have been programmed for
“Its the new normal” .

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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 11:02am
  It’s the job of parents to parent their children. Not the government. Banning games is banning free speech. It won’t work either. Parents need to be the ones who choose what their kids have access too.
  
  Only progressives want to ‘control’ peoples lives, censor and ban what they cannot do.
  
  Plus violent video games nor guns are causing the violence in modern world. Violence has actually gone down 50% in the US since the 70′s. Did you know there is more crime said to be inspired by written books than movies or games.
  
  You would be doing yourself a favor to actually look into the real research into this topic, even Penn Jillette knows Video Games are no the cause of ‘crime’. That crime has existed long before video games.
  
  You are perhaps the one in denial.
  
  Report this comment
- bertr
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 11:13am
  I don’t see why so many of you supposedly constitution loving posters have issue with this. I watched the show last night and i never heard anything about “banning” video games, did any of you? seriously? The message was about parents taking responsibility for what thier kids are taught and personal morality.
  If the constitution is going to survive we are going to Have to discuss morality and have to practice it ourselves, not necessarily enforce it, but anyone who doesnt think the constitution doesnt require a morally conscious public knows little of the founding fathers
  
  Report this comment
- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 11:20am
  Of course morality is something we need to practice for our government to work (as long as it isn’t ‘enforced’ directly that would be totalitarianism).
  
  I agree that it comes down to parents, to actually parent their children. There are games parents shouldn’t be exposing to their children, just as there are books, movies, etc, that they shouldn’t be exposing to their children. The problem is many parents now adays don’t care what they expose their children to, and don’t actually parent. They use video games, tv, teachers, etc as ‘baby sitters’. The entertainment industry (especially), and teacher’s don’t always have the best interest for the children.,
  
  However, that being said video games, movies, books, aren’t going to turn every human into a murderer, just as having guns is going to turn every person who has them into killers. There are much deeper factors that lead to those outcomes, that need to be addressed.
  
  Report this comment
- A_CALL_TO_CONSCIENCE
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 11:23am
  SACREDHONOR1776 is correct. As he mentioned a great place to start is with Penn and Teller on video game violence.
  
  Having said that, I’m not trying to imply you should allow your children to play any video game. I also think there are games that should not be played at very young ages.
  
  Report this comment
- Zorro1
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 11:30am
  If media audio-visuals don’t influence people’s actions, why are billions of dollars spent on audio-visual advertising? Because thousands of “studies” have proven that audio-visual advertising gets enough results to make the cost worthwhile.
  But, the media violence vendors and their fans would have you believe that these facts don’t apply to their violent products, just as cigarette producers for years denied that smoking was harmful.
  Yet, now tobacco products carry warning labels.
  Get the idea?
  
  Report this comment
- The-Real-Enrico
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 11:36am
  @bertr I am a constitution loving Christian and I take issue with this. The argument against Beck theory is that violent imagery is not immoral.
  
  Doe you believe films like Brave Heart or the Passion of the Christ immoral?
  
  And this non science never been proven to be true. The true problem is lack of parenting and morals.
  
  This has been one of the progressive nanny causes for decades. Violent images do not create the problem bad parenting does. Parent shouldn’t allow young children use things that promote lacking or no moral like bad music lyrics, raunchy movies etc
  
  Report this comment
- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 11:37am
  You do realize that most places can’t sell cigerettes or video games to people under age. Nor can they sell movie tickets to minors without consent of the parents. It always comes back to the parents, and their lack of parenting. The problem is the parents.
  
  Report this comment
- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 11:43am
  Glenn Beck needs to debate this topic with Penn Jillette, and the experts Jillette cites on this issue. If anything conversation, and with true libertarian values is a good thing.
  
  Report this comment
- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 11:53am
  “This has been one of the progressive nanny causes for decades.”
  
  So true, I remember seeing broadcasts blaming violence and crime on “pacman” of all things from the late 70′s or early 80s, from back when it was released. Also “super mario” games being attacked by progressive “conservative” religious groups in books. Maybe those games will cause an insane person to go off on others. But parents are the ones that need to monitor their children, and look for any issues, and be careful what they introduce to them…
  
  Most of the time, these news broadcasts will latch onto a game, they have never played. Including many that lack any actual realistic ‘violence’, and exaggerate what is actually in the game, if not altogether falsehoods and misinformation….
  
  It’s not unlike the gun control nuts, giving misinformation or making up scary terminology to scare people into giving up their 2nd ammendment.
  
  Report this comment
- Zorro1
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 11:59am
  So, all of you “It’s the parents job” posters–
  Why the silence about what to do?
  What is your proposal to get the parents motivated?
  
  Report this comment
- steelpanther
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 12:11pm
  As a person who’s goal in life is to have their own game company, this is both exciting, frustrating and a conversation that I want to have.
  
  I made notes as I watched the show, I knew going into it was going to frustrate me, but I appreciate Glenn not going on the ban route and talking about just getting them out of kids reach, however he has many things wrong.
  
  First off Grossman has been debunked by peers many times. All the close to legit studies done on this issue point that this has no effect and it’s a parenting issue with not holding children responsible.
  
  All the studies I’ve seen refereed to Media having an effect on violence, either will not release how they came to their conclusions, or it’s something insane like comparing brainwave patterns(once) of people playing Myst to people playing Doom. Not comparable, at best the argument is the same as Ice cream causing crime, Ice cream sales go up in summer, crime also goes up, therefore Ice cream causes crime.
  
  The real frustrating thing is the consent implication that these games are made for kids, they didn’t start by being made for kids(most wouldn’t have a clue how to operate the equipment during the time they where first being made.) Same as animation, which Walt Disney is at fault for making that a kids only thing, look at Japan.
  
  I’m an adult, don’t give a game that’s made for me to a kid then whine about how evil game companies are for making it.
  
  To be continued.
  
  Report this comment
- steelpanther
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 12:19pm
  Grand Theft Auto was mentioned, This wasn’t meant for kids, actually I think Glenn would have really liked the history behind the third game, they didn’t know what the game was they where going to make, they wanted to make a city that seemed real instead of fake, then set a game in it. Either way, it is a Mature 17 game by the ESRB, not only that, why do people give 8 year old a game in which it’s title is a felony, bad grandma(who tried to sue).
  
  In all this discussion, it bothers me that no one mentions the ESRB, it’s a game industry invention and standard to make sure games don’t get into hands they shouldn’t be. http://www.esrb.org/index-js.jsp People need to be educating people on this, it tells you exactly what’s in a game.
  
  Also this concept of stimulus response has some merit, can help with helping to quickly recognize a threat and to react, but “kill the bad guy” in this case is not raise a gun and pull the trigger but to move the analog stick and press R1. A console controller or a keyboard and mouse do not equate to guns, ever and to say that they do is pretty idiotic.
  
  Report this comment
- steelpanther
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 12:32pm
  Something else I have to address is the absurd comment that “Video games teach marksmanship skill”. This has nothing to do with video games, they teach nothing that can’t be figured out by picking a gun up and don’t explain functions like safeties.
  
  For someone that trains cops and soldiers to kill, you’d think this guy would know this, guns are inherently simple tools and the main problem with teaching people to shoot is getting them over their fear of the gun, they have poor accuracy because they are flinching.
  
  Guns took over warfare not because they where powerful, it’s because it eliminated the need to teach a person for a lifetime how to fight, and to support these people while they produced nothing. You can spend 10 minutes to teach someone how to use a old flintlock(believe Mike Loads or Lowes did a show where he did exactly that.) and now a soldier in 10 minutes instead of a lifetime. That’s why Firearms took over war, and that’s why at these point blank ranges(which is not as the media tells you where the muzzle is only a few inches away) people that never use guns can be accurate, at that point it’s point and shoot.
  
  It’s an idiotic statement that’s disproved by the simplicity of the tool itself.
  
  This is a discussion worth having, and I respect Grossman’s service, but he’s been debunked repeatedly time and time again.
  
  People do need to be educated about media and games, but can we do it with real facts instead of promoting liberal wants, a
  
  Report this comment
- steelpanther
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 12:37pm
  and give them more fuel to band the first amendment, especially in the last form of media that seems to have the liberal agenda mainstream in it and is much more intent on just telling stories.
  
  Report this comment
- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 12:56pm
  Panther makes excellent points, and he actually points out ‘facts’, many of the same ones Penn Jillete pointed out on his show, or other researchers including the ones who wrote Grand Theft Childhood.
  Here is a previous interview Glenn Beck did on this subject, where he interviewed and agreed with “Jack Thompson”. He was discussing how people were giving Grand Theft Auto to minors. I don’t know what kind of ‘good parents’ would actuall do that…. It’s a sign of bad parenting. In anycase read the notes left by the person who uploaed the video, where he mentions and discusses where those involved in the interview were either misinformed or misleading about the game, in some cases down and out misinformation about the actual content within the game (claims about things being in the game that don’t actuall exist).
  
  Again GTA is not a game for kids, and its personally one I choose not to play. Although I’ve seen other people play it, and have done research on the actual content of the game.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWnQbIkLUzw
  
  If people aren’t reading the ratings and buying any ol game for their kids they aren’t being good parents. How are they going to ‘fix’ others being good parents (short of making laws)? It can’t be done, you can try to educate, other people. But most people don’t bother to become informed. What generally happens is people just end up preaching to the choir. Making laws will not help the greater issue (video games only a tiny p
  
  Report this comment
- Exiledhunter_6
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 12:56pm
  I have been a gamer before it was “cool” to be considered a gamer. So I wont be in denial here. I am also a “new” parent and yeah I make mistakes. But what make me angry beyond belief is the fact that I have seen parents who refuse to have a clue. My three-year old boy loves to watch Power Rangers, or Ninja Turtles, and you know what he emulates them. I watch him play and he pretends he’s a Power Ranger that fights the bad guys and does other things from the show that make me laugh. But I wont let him watch me play a very violent game, but not because I think that he will grow up and want to go out and hurt someone, but because his young mind will not understand whats going on in the game. I have seen too many parents get games for their kids that the kids have no business playing (i.e. GTA for a 12-year old) and I just want to go over and smack these parents.
  
  Two things here: If your going to get a game for you kid, please know something about the game. The rating for the game (which is a volunteer program btw) should be your first indication about the game. Next read a review or two about the game, http://www.ign.com is a great source. Next please use your tech at home, it comes with all sorts of cool things to “control” what your kids can watch, see, or play. The Xbox 360 for example can be told not to play any games with an M rating without a password. In short do not be a lazy parent that just gets something to make your kid “cool” because the newest big game.
  
  Report this comment
- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 1:15pm
  Glenn Beck calls violent video games a ‘major factor’ in these gun violence situations. But this goes against the actual current research done on the subject. If anything it is a very ‘minor’ influence and factor.
  
  “Other studies reach the conclusion that violence in video games is not causally linked with aggressive tendencies. This was the conclusion of a 1999 study by the U.S. government, prompting Surgeon General David Satcher to say, “We clearly associate media violence to aggressive behavior. But the impact was very small compared to other things. Some may not be happy with that, but that’s where the science is.”[31] A meta-analysis by psychologist Jonathan Freedman, who reviewed over 200 published studies and found that the “vast and overwhelming majority” did not find a causal link, also reached this conclusion.[32] A US Secret Service study of 41 individuals involved in school shootings found that only 12% were attracted to violent video games, while 24% read violent books and 27% were attracted to violent films.[33] An Australian study found that only children already predisposed to violence were affected by violent games.[34] A long-term outcome study of youth published in 2010 found no long-term relationship between playing violent video game and youth violence or bullying[35]”
  
  According to this research violent books and violent films may have a ‘greater influence’ than video games. So perhaps he should be targeting those primarily, than focusi
  
  Report this comment
- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 1:33pm
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting
  
  Historically, school massacres (let’s focus on shootings) have occured for decades around the world, and long before video games existed. Some well recorded ons occured back to the 60′s and some before. They have been done by juveniles and adults alike (despite what Grossman might have claimed, Lamsa was an adult). Beyond shootings there have also been bombs, and arson massacres that have killed many people. One arson attack in the 1920′s IIRC, which was probably started by a disgruntled student at that school (based on what they know, but it was never solved, IIRC), killed over 50 people…. Grossman claims that only recently have kids been killing other juveniles… But this can be debunked. To claim video games were the cause or greatest cause is laughable…
  
  Report this comment
- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 1:39pm
  Exiled Hunter right on!
  
  However, ‘emulating’ or ‘role playing’ doesn’t mean that people will go out and be killers. I know alot of people played “cop and robbers” back before the 50s, or “cowboy and indians”, or army men vs (insert terrorist/para-military/enemy army name (nazis, commies, japs, etc)), probably inspired by TV shows, news, parents discussions of the time. Doesn’t mean they mean grew up to become violent killers or criminals. There were certainly people who mass killed back then though, and they had no access to games.
  
  That being said I agree, people need to be informed, and understand there are ratings, and certain things are not made for kids. It it isn’t good to expose kids to everything out in the world…
  
  Report this comment
- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 1:59pm
  BTW, there are studies being conducted where violent video games are being used to treat “PTSD”, and get soldiers or other people who suffer PTSD back into regular life, and to deal with their trauma.
  
  Also that violent video games may actually reduce violence rather than adding to it statistically…
  http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080514213432.htm
  
  Report this comment
- Independent4233
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 2:18pm
  “Beck turned his attention to something more subtle, and perhaps deeper that may be at play: the detrimental psychological effects violent video games and movies are having on impressionable children.”
  
  Video games are but one aspect of the cause for imprinting in young minds to kill as a reflexive action, just as the process of combat-training soldiers in various ways imprints on them the same thing. Violent, death-dealing movies do likewise to impressionable young minds. Guns are just a means to an end. If machetes were used in place of guns, we would see a rash of machete murders where none have occurred before.
  
  Anybody doubting the effectiveness of repetitious pschological methods only needs to study the amazing effects mass psychology has embeded in Western societies that “diversity is our strength,” which has over-ridden common sense in a good portion of the population that intuitively knows that it is a very definite weakness.
  
  On the one hand we have violent imprints through mostly action itself, and on the other we have an inculcation of an abstract tenet using verbal and written communication as its vehicle of brainwashing, but the end result is the same, which is a conditioned robot that acts on impusle and not rational thought.
  
  Thankfully it doesn’t work on everybody, and, as in the case of conditioning soldiers, it comes at a time when basic imprints of right and wrong have already been formed.
  
  Report this comment
- Zorro1
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 3:06pm
  The fact that some “studies” may claim that the societal effect of media violence may be minimal ignores the real problem.
  It seems that most posters here don’t grasp the facts of life of advertising and promotion.
  No advertiser expects a 100% response to their message. In fact, many consider a 1% or 2% response rate great. So what if a very large percentage of “shoot-em-up” game players won’t be inspired by “killer” games. A very small number may be; maybe only one.
  Some people think that’s one too many.
  
  Report this comment
- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 3:23pm
  Zorro, you are boarderline using the ‘correlation’ = ‘causation’ fallacy… Which is unscientific, and inaccurate.
  
  You are also making the same arguement that gun control nuts make against 2nd Ammendment rightws… Is one the 1% of gun murders too many? So therefore we should do something about guns!
  
  You asked “how do you suggest we go about fixing the problem?”. I could ask you the same question?
  
  Because realistically there is nothing that can be done short of trying to educate parents not to buy games that have clearly marked warnings for their children. Warnings that were there to ‘educate’ parents into not buying certain games because of violence, or other reasons. Similar to the same things on movies. Now this hasn’t worked! Many parents are still choosing to buy any game for their kids, simply because the kid asks for it… They still take their kids into movies, despite the warning on the movies. How do you ‘prevent’ that behaviour? You really can’t short of ‘banning’ or ‘censorship’, that clearly goes against free speech…
  
  Additionally you are attacking video games, but why aren’t you complaining as much about books and movies which have a higher rate of influence on people according to the peer reviewed studies? Because it clearly seems that 22% and 29% is over 50% too much influence on murderers! Hey, the nazis thought burning books and destroying films would stop influence on the kids!
  
  You still haven’t watched Penn and Teller’s
  
  Report this comment
- Wisdom7
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 4:07pm
  I would like to address you gamers, because I am one myself. I’ve been playing games since the days of the old Atari 2600 when a tank or airplane was nothing but a blip on the television screen and before anyone knew what Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, Mario, or Nintendo even was. So I have watched the evolution of these games from the beginning, and I have also played them.
  
  I can honestly say you are taking this way too personally, and that is a mistake. No one is saying games should be banned. I don’t think they should be banned, and you are actually agreeing with them regarding your statements on parenting. However, you cannot deny these games and movies desensitize our youth to death and violence. We both know many of the games being discussed are for adults. Yet, we also know a lot of parents out there will buy them for their kids because they honestly don’t know what is in them or they don’t care. Ask any kid about these games and they have already played them.
  
  You say Grossman has been debunked, but there are numerous scientific studies showing that he hasn’t. Even the military uses simulation for training, and as others have pointed out advertising companies spend billions because imagery works.
  
  Report this comment
- Wisdom7
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 4:08pm
  Does anyone remember back in the 1970s there was a movie called “Faces of Death”? This movie at the time was pretty horrifying. However, compared to everything we see today on cable television and the Internet, people wouldn’t give it a second thought. Now there are shows like “1000 Ways to Die” and reality shows that regularly show footage of people being hurt or dying. The evolution of games has been no different, and I would really like to address people like Steelpanther because he states he would like to own his own game company. I think a lot of these parents still view these games like they were in the days of Super Mario, and I think there needs to be a better dialogue there between the gaming industry and parents.
  
  Report this comment
- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 4:48pm
  “You say Grossman has been debunked, but there are numerous scientific studies showing that he hasn’t.”
  
  Please point to these studies, because I can point to a dozen others. For example a good book to check out is Grand Theft Childhood…
  
  Williams, Ian (2007-03-06). “US teen violence study exonerates video games”. IT Week. Archived from the original on 2007-12-17. Retrieved 2007-12-10.
  Vossekuil, Bryan; et al. (May 2002). “Safe School Initiative Final Report” (PDF). U.S. Secret Service and U.S. Department of Education. p. 26.
  “Study: Kids Unaffected by Violent Games”. Wired. April 2, 2007.
  Ferguson, Christopher J.. “Video Games and Youth Violence: A Prospective Analysis in Adolescents”. Journal of Youth and Adolescence.
  
  More studies came out in last couple of years as well. Chances are you and I have not read the 200 articles of research on this topic, and try to look at the updated research whenever possible.
  
  Perhaps you should read all the research especially new ones.
  
  Now I’m not saying kids should play violent video games (or watch violent movies), and parents need to be better parents. But the research is still not ‘conclusive’. No one has proven correlation = causation on this matter. But you honestly should watch Penn and Teller’s research on this and listen to other experts on the topic, and not just listen to one guy, and his personal sensationalist take on it.
  
  Also keep min mind that several of these mass killers, its been found
  
  Report this comment
- frust@ted
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 4:48pm
  I agree that your 8 year old should not be playing grand theft auto or socom navy seals, but glenn took it a little to far, he removed the lego games from his kids as well. Ultimatley its his family his choice but there is a clear difference between catoonish type violence (like Willey Coyote) and graphic violence (like Walking Dead), we don’t need to paint all video game violence so black and white.
  
  Do you take away your little kids green army men too if he is playing war with them?
  
  Some conditioning to violence is ok, otherwise your kid will pee themselves the first time they actually see it happen in real life. It’s about parenting your kids so they know that violence in games/tv is different then in real life and teaching them how to respect human life.
  
  Report this comment
- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 6:37pm
  Keep in mind that many of the mass murderers in schools it was discovered after the fact that the kids involved never actually played video games. Something else set them off…
  
  Also Grossman said that if video games arent’ the culprit in this modern age of violence, then gun violence should actually be going down. He claims it has gone up since video games were out… This simply doesn’t really fit the statistics… recorded by the FBI, and other state agencies…
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ooa98FHuaU0
  
  Which state that gun violence has actually gone down, and that its generally concentrated to over crowded cities and poor neighberhoods. It would seem violence may be related to environment and means more so than any other reasons.
  
  As for people who say there will be no attempts to ‘ban violent video games’. There are people who are attempting to do it. Glenn Beck is just playing into their game… Even if he doesn’t support ‘banning’ it general.
  
  http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2013/01/04/connecticut-town-to-buy-back-burn-violent-video-games/
  
  Report this comment
- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 6:42pm
  Why aren’t people blaming gangs or drugs for violence? Seeing as dealers and crime syndicates are involved in most of the violence in cities? Why focus on video game which has one of the lower percentage of possible ‘influence’? The gangs which are often coming in from across the border and recruiting kids, or slipping drugs to them? For example MS-13… Many of these gangs have been around since before video games… and were involved in the violence of the early 70′s (said to be the period greatest violence in recorded US history according to the government statistics).
  
  Report this comment
- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:01pm
  Should have kjnown David Grossman is another ‘conservative progressive’, who really supports banning and regulating video games…
  
  http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2006-09-14/its-addictive-or-is-it
  
  David Grossman: “I sincerely believe that if [legislation] is not passed we will pay a tragic price in lives, just as surely as if we had failed to keep guns or alcohol or tobacco out of the hands of kids.”
  
  Glenn Beck might not believe in regulation, but he’s playing right into the hands of these type of people…
  
  Like guns and alcohol and tobbaco, or violent movies which are highly regulated it still hasn[t kept kids from gaining access to them… Why? Because parents aren’t doing their jobs…
  
  Report this comment
- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:05pm
  David Grossman is a Jack Thompson supporter… and Glenn Beck has been in the past as well…. Both of these guys want legislation and control of the market… Same as the gun lobbiests against guns… They Grossman and Thompson are not ‘libertarians’, they are progressives of the ‘right persuasion’…
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWnQbIkLUzw
  
  Report this comment
- Wisdom7
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:16pm
  @Sacred
  
  You sure make a lot of assumptions. Considering I have repeatedly said I play these games myself and follow this industry, why would I want to ban all games? You also repeatedly throw out Penn and Teller as a valid source, while discounting others but turn around and tell others they should look at more sources. Listen I can post links to sources too. Look here are a few:
  
  Violent Video Games: Myths, Facts, and Unanswered Questions
  http://www.apa.org/science/about/psa/2003/10/anderson.aspx
  
  Violent video game exposure and aggression
  http://www.psychology.iastate.edu/faculty/caa/abstracts/2000-2004/04ca.pdf
  
  Children and Video Games: Playing with Violence
  http://www.aacap.org/cs/root/facts_for_families/children_and_video_games_playing_with_violence
  
  Video Games and Aggressive Thoughts, Feelings, and Behavior in the Laboratory and in Life
  http://web.clark.edu/mjackson/anderson.and.dill.html
  
  Study: Repeated Exposure to Violent Video Games and Movies Can Harm People
  http://www.opposingviews.com/i/entertainment/study-repeated-exposure-violent-video-games-and-movies-can-harm-people
  
  Popular Video Games: Assessing the Amount and Context of Violence
  http://icagames.comm.msu.edu/VGCA.pdf
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 9:20pm
  Heh, all your sources are from 2003-2004ish… Like I said before, more than likely you’d bring up older research (many that have an agenda, base research on bad ‘causality’ issues, etc). They fail to take into consideration updated research from 2006-2010+ onwards… referenced I provided in my post. Again updated research takes those previous one into account, and criticize and debunk aspects of them.
  
  Also I’m not specifically citing Penn, just the experts he brought on his show. Many who actually critize Jack Thompson and Grossman and their ilk, who do support ‘banning’ video games in their works. This topic is still very much inclusive, and needs more research done. Like global warming it is not ‘settled science’, as much as many media types want you to believe…
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 9:35pm
  Also one of Grossman and Thompsans arguements is that a person can play these video games, and be taught how to aim and shoot guns. This is not correct. They are not true simulations. They do not teach you how to ‘load’ a weapon. They do not teach you how to aim or hold a weapon in a realistic mannor. You don’t have a mouse and keyboard with a real gun. People are not going to go from playing a FPS and be a marksman.
  
  On a side note the US Army released a violent video game called America’s Army. No it it won’t teach people how to kill with real weapons. It was created more to be a form of propaganda to glorify the military and get recruits. It actually supports patriotic stuff like honor, committment etc. But its more like call of duty. Some of the earlier versions were somewhat education in that they did show or rather discussed how to do real first aid, through photgraphs. Perhaps as propaganda it does ‘desentize’ somewhat into killing American enemies and terrorists, but it doesn’t teach people how to actually kill with real weapons. They might learn about military
  
  Actually the military complex has been behind early games in the Call of Duty and Medal of Honor and similar military games for the same reason as a form of military propaganda, to induce ‘patriotism’, and drum up recruits, and interest in the military. Although later games in the series particularly call of Duty have picked up anti-war messages.
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 9:42pm
  The military does have actual multimillion dollar simulators that use technology and physical simulcrum of a weapon for training soldiers actual ‘aiming’, shooting, etc, within a virtual world. However, your average kid isn’t going to have access to such technology… Light guns of yesteryear are probably closest thing to a home experience of that type, but aren’t nearly as realistic. They lack the heft, or the kickback of a real gun. the games lack the same level of physics or realism of the simulators.
  
  http://www.telepresenceoptions.com/images/army_virtualreality_simulator.jpg
  
  Report this comment
- steelpanther
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 10:43pm
  Wisdom7, to say we are taking this personally no, we may have a dog in the fight, but we aren’t taking this personally. I’m just tired of people going off on things with feelings and not facts, it’s the same thing with the gun issue, but the gun issue has many people defending it, where games have next to no one willing to state facts, possibly because not to many people even know them.
  
  Games are just about everyone else’s version of gun control. We refuse to take responsibility for our actions(as a society) and would much rather blame an inanimate object and that if we jump around a scream and get rid of it or sideline it that some how that will make everything better. The media currently wants to blame guns for all of it, the Grossman’s and Thompson’s want to blame games.
  
  As far as studies, I already addressed that, I did research papers for my DMACC English class that I had recently, and every college certified and peer reviewed article I could find almost always pointed out Grossman and Thomson personally and debunked them with the actual fact that the studies they always point to, and that all studies in general that say there’s a relation between violence in games and real life, either refuse to release their data and the process they went about to collect and to process it which completely throws it out as a actual study as it can’t be peer reviewed, or it’s one of those crazy one’s like I mentioned, which are in the many, that just throw crap together
  
  Report this comment
- steelpanther
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 11:01pm
  because they clearly have an agenda, and know that papers will pick up the headline of the study and the results with out ever looking at what they did to get them.
  
  I think it’s relevant to point out here, that this topic was like my 6th pick to do, and I had to do it because I couldn’t find anything on my others, my first being about the Battle of Agincourt, motivated by my game experience and the research I’ve done because games have sparked my interest in those subjects.
  
  I am frustrated however, at the repeated attack on games by so called experts. the 70′s had the so called D&D expert going around teaching Law Enforcement about D&D and talking about how awful it was. What was her qualification? He son committed suicide because of an all controlling mother, the dealing with homosexuality, clear signs of mental instability and several other things. She then decided to blame D&D, found the phone number to a D&D group started to call it but hung up because she thought it was to dangerous, so she decided to go to a college dorm instead, found people that “looked like D&D players” eventually found them and had them explain the game to her. Anyone see some failed logic there? After words that qualified her as an expert to go to police departments and teach cops how to profile players. These quacks are everywhere.
  
  Glenn’s show did NO educating of any kind about games, it didn’t help anyone tell anything at all, if he was serious about it he would have gone into t
  
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- steelpanther
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 11:27pm
  the ESRB in detail to educate parents on HOW they make good choices for their children’s entertainment instead of throwing an emotional and inmasculine “panic attack” over facts that he himself has declared to be false in the gun debate(rise of violence). I’m sorry, but Grossman actually did hit key buttons with me, it doesn’t matter what the cause, even if it’s one I support, but using the death of innocent people to further your agenda does nothing but make my blood boil. You want to do these people justice, I mean real justice? Look at the facts, look at reality, and the fact is Grossman just flat out lied in most of the last half of the show.
  
  His argument that violence is going up due to “Killing simulations” a clearly made false in the gun debate with the fact that crime and violence in general are in decline and have been quite a while.
  
  Also, go look up what a simulation is, I’ve been in one, and a video game is nothing like it.(A trucking one actually, for Transport America). Look up what the army uses as simulations and you’ll find that Grossman is grossly misrepresenting what a simulation is.
  
  As for the banning, the manner in which Glenn and Grossman handled the subject matter, all they did was further that cause. After every news story with a kid gone bad there’s almost always some hack wanting to blame it all on video games. Glenn was also disingenuous with his, “This isn’t going to make us popular” comments at the start of the show, bashing
  
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- steelpanther
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 11:36pm
  have been popular for a very long time. I support Glenn, I like what he is doing in general, but I don’t agree with everything he does and not pushing Grossman on the facts when Glenn was spouting them off in the gun debate is something that frustrates me deeply, if your going to claim your going to ask the hard questions, I actually expect you to do it. That’s the same problem the republican party is having right now.
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 6:59am
  Steelpanther did you hear on his radio show yesterday? Glenn claimed that rated ESRB’s M games are actually the game industries “Rated X” and that the let X games pass through because video game industry has an agenda to sell games to public! He claimed that M games are like the video games industries NC-17! He didn’t even bring up the AO rating… he didn’t even mention that ESRB actually has forced companies to ‘censor’ their games to avoid the AO rating. Because most stores will not sell AO games… AO is the rea X rating… He didn’t even mention that most stores (at least in many states) won’t sell M games to minors without an ID….
  
  He kept on suggesting that it may not only be ‘influencing’ children but may be turning adults into killers as well!
  
  He kept on stressing, that he doesn’t want ot ‘ban’, but it sure sounds like he wants the government to ‘regulate’… What’s the difference?
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 7:04am
  Also to hear that one of his cohosts and Glenn agreed with him, may have gone as far to take away Lego Indiana Jones from their kids because its ‘violent’! Because the kid tried to shadow ‘whip’ his father. I’m thinking yet you let your kid watch the movies! Hell, I grew up with the Indiana Jones movies, I shadow ‘whipped’ at people all the time! Ok, I’ll admit I grew up to be an archaelogist as well, but hey I don’t shoot people, I don’t whip people, and I’m not a ‘grave robber’!
  
  This is just as silly as schools expelling a child, and sever reprimands because he made the pistol sign with his hand! Which the conservative news media rightful had a cow over, for being insensitive… Hell, the treatment of at kid in the way they did it, might screw the kid up in the future anyways… Because they basically told the kid he was a ‘criminal’ mind…
  
  http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2464765/posts
  
  Total Hypocricy..
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 7:59am
  Seriously, its one thing if Glenn Beck kept to the “keep violence away from children”, and parents need to choose wisely what they get their kids.
  
  But he has also stepping into the “this stuff may have adverse affect” on adults as well, so ‘something needs to be done about it’, but “i’m not for banning”…
  
  Point of note some of the worst massacres in history have been committed by adults. Many who probably never played video games (or before video games even existed). Sixty year olds and otherwise…
  
  We need to start looking for warning signs in a person, and treat the person, not put blame or scapegoat on an outside influence. That’s no better than treating a ‘symptom’ of the disease, and not the disease itself. I.E. the way a person plays a game may or may not show a person’s mental stability, but itself is not the ’cause’. The cause is actually something in the mind of the person itself that needs to be treated. Just taking away ‘symptoms” (games, guns, books, movies, etc), probably won’t ‘cure’ the patient.
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 9:37am
  On a related note does anyone see the irony in that in the same way the left treated Trayvon Martin as a juvenile and a child, although he was an adult… In the same way the right Grossman and Glennbeck are treating Lamza as a child a juvenile? Although he was an adult? Both were over eighteen. Both are using words such as ‘juvenile’ or ‘children’, applying them to adults… This is deception… It plays on pathos, an appeal to people’s emotions. People are more likely to be concerned over a ‘child’ going bad,than an ‘adult’ going bad… Why is this perhaps because adults are on average more likel to go bad? There have been examples of 10-16 year olds doing bad things, klling etc, even before video games, but these events are very rare. It usually occurs in families with poor parenting, dysfunctional family (parents with unhealthy ‘control’ complexes), lower economic status communities, etc. These are generally the root causes.
  
  Obviously Lamza doesn’t fit into the 12-16 age bracket or profile. He fits into the ‘adult’ bracket. But hey as news that’s not as edgy or shocking… His killing kids is not shocking enough, they had to make him a ‘kid killig kids’…
  
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- mslaw0813
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 12:31pm
  In my opinion, I think first of all, a kid should be at least 13 or 14 to play video games. I read this and I was thinking that some video games are not all violent. That’s just what I think, there are good family friendly video games such as Animal Crossing. But, I agree partly that kids shouldn’t play violent video games if there not old enough.
  
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- Wisdom7
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 4:38pm
  My point was regarding youth and the impressionable younger generation. We all know these companies market these games to younger kids, even the M rated ones. Am I saying everyone playing these games will go out and murder folks? No. I play them, and they are just games. However, you can’t deny that repeatedly viewing violent images and death desensitize youth to it.
  
  As far as the latest research, it deals with changes in brain chemistry, addiction, and changes in brain activity after playing violent video games. I didn’t listen to the radio show and what Glenn wants to do with this family is his business. However, I wouldn’t simply discount all of Grossman’s points because he did make valid ones. I’ll be honest, some of the games I have played I couldn’t help but ask myself what kind of whack job came up with this game. Some of them are just downright disturbing. I think we all agree it does come down to parenting and mental illness, and that is why I said that gaming companies and the industry needs to focus on that more.
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 5:12pm
  “We all know these companies market these games to younger kids, even the M rated ones. Am I saying everyone playing these games will go out and murder folks? No. I play them, and they are just games. However, you can’t deny that repeatedly viewing violent images and death desensitize youth to it.”
  
  Please post evidence taht Mature games are marketed towards children. As far as I know ads for M games appear mostly in magazines like Rolling Stones, Newspapers, video game magazines, andother news magazines. I have never seen M rateed game ad in a kids magazine. I have seen games for E rated games in kids magazines.
  
  As for tv, I’ve only seen commercials for M rated games appear during during primetime television, not during the childrens afternoon programming. Now in general the M commericials also never show the violent aspects, but pretty much mimic movie advertising.
  
  No, its not the companies that push M rated games on children, its the parents who don’t care and buy the games for their children. Parents who choose to ignore the ESBR rating system.
  
  I’m sorry to day about your accusations sound very paranoid…
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 5:20pm
  Also most mainstream stores will not sell M rated game to someone under age, and in general you must show id to buy the game. Stores and industry are policing themselves. In most cases you cannot get to the games without someone unlocking the cabinet either (thi may mainly apply to new releases of console games). Much like a people cannot get to cigerettes because they are locked behind a counter.
  
  WIsdom you are ‘scapegoating’… and using alinsky tactics…
  
  RULE 9: “The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.” Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist.
  
  You are attacking the ‘thing’, and not focusing on the problem with parenting, the socio-economic background, mental illnesses, etc.
  
  Report this comment
- Wisdom7
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 7:22pm
  You are of course wrong in your assessment, and simply lashing out at anyone you perceive as a threat. Your responses are emotional because you feel you are being attacked. Therefore, you are indeed taking it personally and even attacking me. I understand this and won’t hold it against you. I started playing these games before most people playing them now were born. I also have a degree in Information Technology and programming, and I am also a parent. It isn’t like I haven’t looked at every side of the issue. We could continue to debate if you wish, but I don’t see the point. Take care.
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 8:45pm
  Ha ha, the same can be said for your viewpoints as well, as you see video games as a ‘threat’! You lash out on the “dangers” of video games, accuse them of being targeted at kids, but it doesn’t seem you have strong evidence on that front.
  
  Guess we’ll just have to agree to disagreee..
  
  Report this comment
- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 8:54pm
  BTW I have a masters degree in anthropology, focused on culture, and I’m currently working on the PHD… and I have my master’s research intersected on this subject (so I’ve read most of the latest research on the subject) but hey, not like that’s going to ‘convince’ you, just as much as your ‘positions’ aren’t going to convince me! It doesn’t usually help much to toss around ‘credentials’… Everyone has an ego and thinks they have “superior” knowledge (I suppose liberal colleges kind of push that kind behaviour). From what I’ve read your ‘opinions’ are ‘wrong’ or at least ‘misinformed’, or that more research needs to be done because its still inconclusive. But you know what they say about opinions heh! Eveyone has one… Probably everyone has some kind agenda, that they will try to defend…
  
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- Wisdom7
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 2:31am
  @Sacred
  
  I’m really having a hard time understanding where you are coming from attacking me. Where did I say they were a threat or the “sole cause”? Where did I lash out at you personally? I said Grossman has valid points and they can be considered a contributing factor in the desensitization of our youth. We can disagree on the advertising. That’s fine. I’m also not throwing around “credentials”. I was simply pointing out that I am looking at the matter from all angles and gaming and technology is something I know about. As a military and law enforcement veteran I have also used training simulators and trained extensively in weapons along with being a range instructor for a time. I don’t think I am better than you or anyone else. Games are not a threat by themselves. They are not a magic pill that turns people into murderers. What I did say is, they do, along with violent movies, contribute to the desensitization of our youth to violence. I have no agenda other than we should be responsible as a society. I am certainly not misinformed, nor am I wrong. Anyone reading your comments can see you are completely biased and your arguments will fail to convince anyone. To say the science isn’t there validating my claim is complete ignorance. I also have a hard time believing you when you base your research on Penn and Teller. That’s not exactly scientific.
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 6:12am
  So you base your science on watching “Glenn Beck” that’s hardly science show as well! Actually you are basing on ‘Grossman’, but through Glenn Beck program.
  
  Must I repeat myself I’ve stated its not Penn and Teller, its the scientists Penn and Teller brought on his show discussing the topic!
  
  You can stop with the ad hominem!
  
  Hell, Glenn Beck even brought one of those experts on his show once, back when he was on CNN, but treated her incredulously throughout the interview and borderline scoffed at her… I’m referring to Cheryl K. Olson, Sc.D, one of the authors on Grand Theft Childhood.
  
  I don’t know what your problem is, and we may agree on some points… But you knock it off with the “ooh” you watched non-scientific Penn and Teller personalites… especially since you are here advocating people listen to the non-scientific watch non-scientific Glenn Beck personality. They are much the same in alot of ways. Penn does internet short talk shows, Glenn Beck does regular talk shows.
  
  Both are not scientists. But both try to bring on ‘experts’. The problem is the experts don’t always agree, and its good to have all the voices out there, discussing this issue. Not just one side of it, and one guy who is already biased himself! Grossman as I’ve pointed out in the past has been on the ban/regulation bandwagon with others such as Hillary Clinton and are Jack Thompson looking for anyone to help push their agenda.
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 6:32am
  One of the issues no one brings up (other than video game violence researchers that expand beyond the provential boundaries) is that most countries that have huge video game markets have very little violence at all, and that violence has reduced in many of those countries. In the US violence has dropped 50% since the 70s as well. News media doesn’t like to report on that statistic, because it doesn’t sell the shocking news… Infact they generally only like to focus on the rare events to cause controversies… Note that correlation doesn’t = causation. Yet it has higher violence than many other countries. Although its a bigger country, and violence is for the most part concentrated in big cities, in low economic regions.
  
  At the same time there are many countries that have very small video game market, and actually have higher violence, some even more so than the US. Again one cannot correlate the information to the cause. I.E. no way can it be contstrued that more gamers means less violence, anymore than more games means more violence scientifically.
  
  But why aren’t the statistics being discussed? Because it doesn’t fit into newsmedia’s agendas. They need to find a strawman to attack. It raises ratings.
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 6:46am
  Almost always, when ever some violent event happens in present, the media and politicians (particuarly Fox and Right Wing side on this issue, but also some left as Hillary shows) almost always goes out trying to find evidence that video games were involved. As pointed out in Grand Theft Childhood for example the news tried to paint the Virginia Tech killer as a gamer. But turns out he had never played games, and didn’t like video games.
  
  Usually all these killers are ‘adults’, played games as adults. It is not necessarily know if they played violent video games as children or not. If they did play violent video games as children, the only video games they had access to as children were on the Atari at that age. In all the pixellated tank explosions and pellet eating! Keep in mind that early nintendo age saw most video games censored as well (in the pre-ESRB days)! Sega on the other hand was more open (so do people believe there is a causel effect to sega causing violence?). The news always tries to make the killer out to be some kind of ‘victim’ of the things he exposed himself to. Almost always treated as being younger than they really are (IE grossman calling Lamza a “juvenile’, even though he was over 20). The left did something similar with Trayvon Martin (heh they even painted the picture that liked candy and video games to make him seem like a child)…
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 6:47am
  In some cases if a killer did play video games, they may have been introduced to it after they were an adult. This is why Grossman in some of his statements, makes blanket claims that “violent video games are turning people into killers” (and although he has a tendency to make adults into juveniles, he at times does attack video games as turning adults into killers as well).
  
  BTW, why are you targeting my posts, and not debating Steel Panther? Because he’s been bringing up the modern research on this topic as well! He’s probably posted a much more detailed summary of the research.
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 1:09pm
  Hmm, so Grossman is an anti-second ammendment advocate as well… Hah he wants “progress” an American that gives up its guns!
  
  http://www.theppsc.org/Grossman/Main-R.htm
  
  “ GROSSMAN:
  
  We are trapped in this spiral of self-dependence and lack of trust. Real progress will never be made until we reduce this level of fear. As a historian, I tell you it will take decades–maybe even a century–before we wean Americans off their guns. And until we reduce the level of fear and of violent crime, Americans would sooner die than give up their guns.”
  
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- Battle1925
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 1:53pm
  I’m a gamer and i’m 13 and I play Mature games .1st person shooters. now the problem is that the parents give kids really high rated games which is wrong because they do not understand that when you shoot someone there are things that happen to you after you shoot someone like GETTING ARRESTED!!!! Now I think of it as laser tag but parents do not sit down with them and tell them that if you shoot someone you get a long time in jail
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 7, 2013 at 5:32am
  I believe that is the biggest issue, parents are not taking responsibility for their children. They are paying attention to the ratings system. Just like parents who take their children into see R movies.
  
  Perhaps parents aren’t teaching their kids about differences of reality vs. fantasy. Just as much as they don’t always educate their children about sex properly. Them the child learns about it through peers or by other adults (in not so nice conditions). Does the parent strike a balance between overbearing control and just the right amount of rules. Is it a dysfunctional family?
  
  Perhaps peer influence is a big issue. Who is kid running around with, how is kirk friend being parented? Is the outside source giving access to something the parent wouldn’t want their child exposed to?
  
  Mental illness is another issue, but that isn’t always easy to diagnose.
  
  Drugs such as ritelin for mental illness is being prescribed to kids that probably don’t have mental illnesses. That can’t be a good thing. It may be causing more severe mental issues.
  
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LIBSALWAYSLIE
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:09am
I watched this entire episode. Now we have a new mountain of facts for the left to ignore. In bizzaro liberal land, fat people should blame spoons.

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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 11:10am
  Actually he’s gone progressive on this issue, and even siding with ol lefties like Hillary Clinton… Jack Thompson is also another progressive when it comes to this issue, IMO…
  
  http://www.gamepolitics.com/2006/12/06/breaking-senators-hillary-clinton-lieberman-to-participate-with-esrb-ad-blitz
  
  http://uk.gamespot.com/news/clinton-reiterates-call-for-federal-game-violence-study-6152481
  
  It’s the progressive way, calls to ban stuff and censor free speech. When its not guns, it something else… Books, movies, games, alcohol, etc… Fascism and totalitarian behaviour through and through…
  
  Parents should be parenting, not expecting the government to ‘control’ their lives… THe problem is people aren’t parenting correctly. or they want to be co-parents and ‘control’ other peoples lives, when the can’t even take care of their own children.
  
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- LIBSALWAYSLIE
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 12:09pm
  SACRED, pay attention, Mr Beck did not call for a ban on anything! He did not go “progressive” on this issue in any way, shape, or form. The word “ban” was not used. The entire show was about personal responsibility and good parenting. Pay attention,
  
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- steelpanther
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 12:35pm
  It only sort of is, there’s little real facts, and it’s completely alienating the fans of the most popular form of media today, the gaming industry brought in over 23 billion in 2010, movies and music combined are slightly less. If Beck want’s to get to the younger generation he needs to be more participatory, and he needs to use this form of media.
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 8:14am
  Hell, Agenda 21 would actually make a great setting for a video game, perhaps adventure game, or action-adventure…
  
  Something with the ‘make-you think’ type plots of the Deus Ex series, and that ‘reward’ a player for making ‘right choices’.
  
  No unlike Glenn claims, most games don’t reward you for killing others over and over without any repercussions, or reward for committing suicide in the game (I don’t know what games he’s talking about but self killing in a Multi-player game actually rewards no points or negative points, and makes it much more difficult to ‘win’ the match)… If paintball, airsoft, & laser tag, etc, is meant to have clear winners and losers (which grossman supports)… They obviously don’t understand that the video games are based on a similar set of rules…
  
  Take Dishonored for example, a new very violent game (M, and not designed for kids). The game actually becomes more difficult if you take ‘evil’ course through the game, killing everyone, spreading the plague, etc…. You face alot more enemies, and rats become more of problem. Everyone fears you and are out to get you. If you take a more peaceful path, knocking people, out or avoiding them, or having people punished, without killing them. People in the game start treating you as a hero, or ignore you.
  
  One path leads to a bad ending in the game, with a very bad outcome for the world. The peaceful path leads to a happy ending, and more peaceful world.
  
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MaggieRose
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:35am
A very difficult episode to watch, but had the ring of truth to it. Life changing.

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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 11:12am
  I’d suggest you go out and watch Penn Jillete’s show on violence in video games. Also check out his show on gun control… Gun control and video game ban crowd have alot in common.
  
  Parents should be doing the ‘control’ not the government.
  
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Owl Works
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:32am
If school massacres began escalating in the late 1970s, what else started around that time?

How about the U.S. Department of Education?

And what shape is our education system in today?

“Government is not the solution to our problem. Government is the problem.” Ronald Reagan

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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 11:24am
  Pacman was an evil game about canibalism, and violence towards poor ghosts, who just want to have fun…
  
  Oh, and pong was a violent game about hitting balls back and forth!
  
  Actually statistically it is said according to a stat Penn Jillette gave on his tv show, that more murders are said to be influenced by ‘books’, than video games or movies. I think he said the stats say something like 11% of violent events. But no one is going out trying to ‘censor’ books. Games were involved in something like less than 4% of the violence, but its been a while since I watched the entire episode.
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 11:27am
  It’s been stated time and time again, that most violence is probably influenced by the newsmedia itself. Not games, not books, not most entertainment, etc. It’s also individuals with deep issues.
  
  It probably has to do with parents who aren’t parenting their children in the right way. Aren’t teaching right from wrong, let television and others ‘parent’ instead of them, etc.
  
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- steelpanther
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 1:31pm
  Has anyone ever stopped to think that these massacres are much like a person trying to commit suicide, in the fact that it’s some massive cry for help and attention because they feel like their lives have no where to go and that they have no options?
  
  Stats wise this stuff is going down, didn’t Stu say Thursday on the Pat and Stu show that 1926 was the worst year for schools? But I still wonder how much of this is because these people are alienated and have no idea of any options for them.
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 1:46pm
  Ya, 1926 had some bad massacres. A car bomb, in one event, IIRc, took out about 92 people at one school..
  
  Clearly caused by video games, don’t you think!?
  
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yankeeatheart
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:15am
We live in a sick society sick at heart … sick in soul… and sick in the mind. Wonder why? Hmmmm

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- steelpanther
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 1:34pm
  Because Baby Boomers where bad parents that raised kids that became worse parents.
  
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KingCanon
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 6:17am
Been saying this since day 1.

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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 6:28am
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06zHS8faKZ4
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohzJqq_m3uo
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWr4htYp9dM (check out all three parts)
  
  Penn Jillette on video game and movie violence.
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 6:32am
  Penn Jillette on video game and movie violence.
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06zHS8faKZ4
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohzJqq_m3uo
  
  Also check out the three parts of his Bull! show. (check out all three parts)
  
  You are just as bad as Hillery Clinton, if you want to ‘control’, ban and censor video games… She has been harping on this subject for years… Just like all liberals and progressives trying to ban guns…
  
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- brother_ed
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 9:43am
  I am not for the banning of video games, there are many who play them who do not exhibit violent behavior.
  
  But to deny that they are part of the problem is…well, denial.
  
  All good things come from God. All evil things come from the adversary.
  
  If something leads you to serve God or others, it is good.
  
  Violent video games are not good. Not are most virtual activities.
  
  These activities have consequences – mainly lack of productivity.
  
  In today’s America, we reward non-productivity.
  
  If we would stop paying people to be non-productive, the consequences of engaging in these activities would be real and maybe their usage would drop.
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 11:31am
  No, he biggest part of the problem is probably the news media, and the fact that there are many people with mental issues, that are not receiving treatment for those issues. The biggest problem is probably parents, not being parents, and allowing other things do the ‘parenting’ too much tv, too much gaming, etc. No sense of moderation, or limiting access to what they watch or play.
  
  There is research that video games may actually have ‘theurapeutic’ benefits to some illnesses. That being said parents need to be awhare that some games are not made for children, and shouldn’t be exposed to them. There is a reason why they put ratings on movies and games.
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 11:35am
  That being said, violent video games are statistically said to be only involved in like less than 4% of the violent events that happen out there. The FBI or CDC record that something like 11% of violence out there was influenced by written books of all things! This is according to the stats referenced in Penn and Teller’s show on violence in video games where they actually talk to real researchers and cite actual peer-reviewed studies on video games, movies, etc..
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 11:40am
  According to the official stats, that Penn Jillette referenced in his episode on video game violence, he mentions that there have been more violent episodes attributed to influence from books, than those influenced from video games or violent movies.
  
  One thing you need to keep in mind while there may be ‘correlation’ correlation does not = causation’. It is very unscientific to think that any ‘correlation’ = ’cause’.
  
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thebronze
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 3:33am
You simpletons that can’t/won’t watch the video are part of the problem.

Grossman lays out the valid reasoning fro why he says what he says.

I’ve been to several of his seminars and he’s spot-on.

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- The-Real-Enrico
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 3:53am
  I have watch the how episode from begin to end. I can say without of doubt most of it is in fact wrong with some exceptions. Like glorification of villains, thugs and evil acts and the demonetization of heroes etc.
  
  This none science has been proven wrong and wrong again. They’re real arguments on video games, movies, culture and violence most of which are not found in the videos above.
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 5:23am
  Glenn Beck needs to watch his friend Penn Jillette’s discussion on this topic, and the experts he talked to, and the true libertarian viewpoint…
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWr4htYp9dM
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ7comwLPFY
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLBx9XOhsm8
  
  Also its not only ‘conservatives’ that are against video games alone… The progressives and libs have been trying to block them for years as well…. If they can control the gaming industry, they can make money off it themselves through taxes and fines…
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 5:35am
  Perhaps you should watch the episode of Pen Jillette’s (Glenn Beck’s ‘friend’) TV show, on violent video games, and get the liberterian and other experts viewpoints on the games… It’s a very different take and opposing to the one Glenn supports.
  
  Glenn unfortunately is siding with many Progressives, IIRC, including Hillary Clinton on this subject.
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 6:13am
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIB3Jw6djjs
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 6:16am
  http://www.gamepolitics.com/2009/07/13/game-violence-episode-penn-amp-teller-bs-youtube
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 6:17am
  You can find links to the episode here. Careful there is language in the videos (Penn is not PC).
  
  http://www.gamepolitics.com/2009/07/13/game-violence-episode-penn-amp-teller-bs-youtube
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 6:21am
  Hmm sorry about the multi-posts. Actually looks like those links don’t link to working copies of the videos. You can find the actual videos on youtube if you do a search for “Penn Jillette Violent Video Games” in google, or most other search engines. I’d link directly to the videos but the board censors won’t let the links by. Ya, that’s probably because the name of his show is not PC, nor is the language in the show…
  
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leganos
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 2:38am
I had to stop the video. Is this guy saying that Grand Theft Auto created gang bangers by itself? As if they never existed before? If Beck keeps down this road, he’ll become like Fredric Wertham. Werthams writings helped with Brown vs Board of Education, but he will be mostly known for Seduction of the Innocent and being someone who blames the tool/toy rather than the person.

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- The-Real-Enrico
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 3:41am
  I agree 100%. This type of stupid intellectually primitive thinking will be the doom of his media and cultural goals and career. I have been gladly giving Beck a portion of my paycheck because I thought Glenn understood and was capable actually fixing are culture but I’ve sadly been mistaken.
  
  I’ve could have just just as easily given my money to CNN or to the GOP or just burned it!
  
  This is really below Beck and all of his staff. I mean come on? How did Mao’s China or Stalin’s Russia get one half of the population to kill the other? How did Mob gain so much power and islamist able to kill and conquer so much in Africa and else where without video game or violent movies?
  
  This idea let alone this argument is so unintelligent it is remarkable how Beck has been able come up with position. I mean I would think somebody of lesser intelligence of Beck would think of this.
  
  Now I understand how and why Glenn likes and can support people like rino Santorum.
  
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- soap on a rope
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 9:46am
  We’re all looking for an easy answer. To the left, it’s the gun. To the right, it’s the game.
  
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- Forced_Union_Worker
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 10:41am
  Beck said pretty clearly that he is not in favor of banning video games or shutting down the manufactures. He is not point a finger of blame at young adults, what he is trying to do is warn parents of very young children (8, 9,10,11) that their children shouldn’t have access to these games. No one is saying playing g.t.a. is going to turn everyone into a killer. What they are saying is that in a country of 330 million people there will be a handful of disturbed people that might act these games out. What I took away from Beck’s show is that parents have to start being parents again. They must monitor what their young children are watching and playing with, and not to let them have material that they clearly aren’t ready for. Most of what is wrong with the country these days can only be fixed at home and by the parents. Government please stay as far away from me and my family as possible.
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 1:44pm
  Soap on the rope, its progressives that attack games… Look at Hillary Clinton or Jack Thompson’s attacks on the industry. Most of the stuff the claim has ben debunked in legitimate research… That’s not to say that one should go out and buy kids violent games rated at older age. But it’s not as scary as they try to make it out to be, not anymore so than violent movies or books (which have apparently had a greater influene in some murders).
  
  “meta-analysis by psychologist Jonathan Freedman, who reviewed over 200 published studies and found that the “vast and overwhelming majority” did not find a causal link, also reached this conclusion.[32] A US Secret Service study of 41 individuals involved in school shootings found that only 12% were attracted to violent video games, while 24% read violent books and 27% were attracted to violent films.[33] ”
  
  http://www.ed.gov/admins/lead/safety/preventingattacksreport.pdf
  
  Vossekuil, Bryan; et al. (May 2002). “Safe School Initiative Final Report” (PDF). U.S. Secret Service and U.S. Department of Education. p. 26.
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 8:19am
  Nah he wasn’t just attacking games influence on kids, he said it might even have an influence on adults as well. He doesn’t want to ‘ban’, but he thinks something ought to be done about these type of games? He even attacked the ESRB regulation system (even accusing of it ‘false advertisement’ and having an ‘agenda’ even), the next day on his show, and implied that game industry and stores need more regulated somehow… So maybe not ‘banned’, he was clear he doesn’t want to ban, but he seems to want to regulate the games, and he does alot to compare games to ‘drugs’…
  
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The-Real-Enrico
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 2:33am
I love Glenn Beck and almost everything he engages in but this is the last straw. I can no longer financially support Glenn Beck and his causes. I will be ending my plus subscriber membership at the end of its use.

Glenn Beck is wasting my hard earned money and is not representing my Christian or conservative/libertarian values. This stinks of the nanny anti culture of progressive.

This is why conservatives are losing the war on our culture. Moronic crusades like this.

Violent images do not create violent people and even if they are interactive. We should be making art ether be violent or not that promotes our conservative values/Christian values/libertarian values/American values and history of all sorts in video games, rap music, movies etc.

With this type primitive thinking people would ban or condemn art such as The Passion of the Christ or Brave Heart. Both are very violent and graphic.

One of the only points worth mentioning is the glorification of evil/bad guys in entertainment. Like mentioned movies staring the crooks or/and murders as heroes and actual heroes as villains and the glorification killing in movies.

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Nickallsopp
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 2:23am
Here we go again. Everybody is trying to find something or someone to blame about the recent shootings. I gonna be up front about this, the games and movies are NOT the problem, ignorance is the problem. My mother taught me everything i needed to know about proper use and handling of my firearms. She taught me to respect a firearms capability, and with that said i am an avid gamer of some very violent video games. I have played just about all of them, i love em, it’s good stress relief after a long day. My respect for firearms is why i wanted in video games and not in real life. Kid who are impressionable need to be taught the difference between reality and fiction.

It seems most people don’t pay attention to ratings though. For example video games like Call of duty, Grand theft Auto, and fallout are rated M for mature. Which means these games aren’t meant for kids you have to be 17 or older in order to purchase them. R rated movie are just the same. Pay attention to detail. Common sense can make the difference If people would just get over their irrational fears and try to understand firearms rather than fear them. Teach your kids the importance of firearm safety, teach them to respect their capabilities, and we’d limit this kind of crisis. And note that i said limit, not stop because there is no stopping it, criminals by definition don’t obey the law, and more gun laws won’t keep them out of criminal hands. Sandy Hook is Adam Lanza’s fault not the guns, not the ga

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- leganos
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 2:42am
  Well said, sir
  
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- DLV
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 3:14am
  I agree completely. I am huge gamer but I have no inkling of shooting anyone. Beck royally F’ed up here. I can see how it might influence children but not really young adults. I play Cod, and loved the Fallout series. Fallout 3 and New Vegas had some of the best storylines. People really need to get over themselves on games and movies. If you’re a parent use smart judgment about letting children use or watch them. This is just ridiculous.
  
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- The-Real-Enrico
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 4:23am
  As a devote Christian, Conservative, Libertarian, Constitutionalist, Family values loving youth I could not a agree more.
  
  I had such high hopes for Beck and the Blaze. This is like Beck is working as hard as he can to not to gain viewership, effect culture in any positive way or make money.
  
  I truly thought Glenn knew what and how to help change our culture(with my money I might add) but I was sadly mistaken. I hope he backs off of this and fast so he doesn’t continue wasting hard earned money.
  
  If this continue I will then not only stop sending my money I will stop listening, if it still continues then I’ll stop reading. Infect culture not crusade against it. This is not the truth.
  
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- ccuster
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:00am
  amen
  
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- soap on a rope
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 9:56am
  I can’t tell you how many times some pre-teen comes on to Ventrilo bragging that they just tell their mother what to buy and she does it. Instead of government interference, we need a return to personal responsibility. Instead of throwing up your hands and saying, “Oh, kids and their games. I don’t understand it. I just buy him what he wants!” How about looking into what it is you’re purchasing? How about parenting instead of leaving it to the government?
  
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The-Monk
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 1:15am
“What something is, is what it extends”

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- AbrahamsSheepdog
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 9:24am
  Exactly.
  
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princesssdaw25
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 1:04am
When you look into the eyes of people who have had kids murdered by a crazy person affected by violent movies and games, It is no longer a theory. I have seen just that, Their eyes still haunt me at times, I have never forgotten those children or parents. That was 12 years ago. I still don;t watch violent movies and or play violent games because of that very reason.

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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 1:55pm
  meta-analysis by psychologist Jonathan Freedman, who reviewed over 200 published studies and found that the “vast and overwhelming majority” did not find a causal link, also reached this conclusion.[32] A US Secret Service study of 41 individuals involved in school shootings found that only 12% were attracted to violent video games, while 24% read violent books and 27% were attracted to violent films.[33]
  
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SIXFRIGATES
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 12:37am
Blaming video games and calling for an end to violence in them is NO different than calling for a ban on gun types or total gun confiscation. The argument is ridiculous. I’ve been playing video games across the entire spectrum, from completely harmless rainbow and unicorns to beating hookers with bats and even shooting and killing of the most violent form, since I was 8 years old, beginning with the original NES, and I am now 32 years old.

I’ve owned multiple platforms since (Sega Genesis, Super Nintendo, Turbo-Grafx 16, Nintendo 64, Playstation 1, 2 & 3, XBox and Xbox 360, Wii, and PCs.) I’ve played many violent games, including what would be considered the most vile, horrific and disgusting. I have never once committed a crime, unless you include a few speeding tickets over 16 years of driving. I’ve never shot and killed a person, I’ve never had the desire to. There is ZERO relation between video games and violence. In fact, when playing a violent game, yes, you do do have some physiological changes while playing them, but it has been proven that within minutes of ending a game, the effects dissipate to the point of irrelevance.

It is not guns, it is not games, it is the PEOPLE and the way they have been raised (morals, values, etc.) that commit the violent acts. There are tens of millions of hardcore video gamers who play the most violent games. Just because a small handful out of those millions commit a crime, you cannot induce their guilt on the rest.

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searching for the Truth
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 12:20am
Yep ! I know a few movie producers that have been sweating it .

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- searching for the Truth
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:43am
  I’m pretty certain of the very same movie that the ” infamous” killer used to act out its massacre, and caused its mind to shut down. However, I believe by now parts have been removed. The movie is still available to the public, though. Violence, sex, and the occult are all involved.
  
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- searching for the Truth
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 9:24am
  Well, It’s actually more than just a game, although that is definitely contributory. It’s the movie that starts out with attempted suicide goes to a killing spree ( or a mental image of one ,) then seeks closure with sexual gratification. To an adults eye would normally cause repulsion, but to an immature mind would create morbid fantasies and imprinting. What does one call them – ” snuff flicks. ” Not certain? Don’t care to look ! But,They are being insidiously introduced on the movie screen.
  
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FiveSolas
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 12:19am
“The veteran also observed that since technology is advancing, by logic, people dying of gunshot wounds should be rapidly on the decline”

I’m sorry, I don’t see the “logical” connection. What is this conclusion based on, exactly?

Also, “the Lt. Col observed that in 5,000 years of trained combat, there has never been “one recorded time in the history of the world” where a juvenile has committed crimes such as those brought to bear at Sandy Hook.” Perhaps it’s just a poorly written article, but this statement makes no sense in this context. Adam Lanza was NOT a juvenile. He was a 20 year old man. So I’m struggling to see the point the Lt. Col. was making. We certainly have countless examples throughout recorded history of far worse atrocities being committed. Herod ordering the slaughter of every child under two comes to mind.

Book Recommendation: “Grand Theft Childhood” The definitive work on this issue.

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Rowgue
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 12:00am
Video games don’t make killers. Sure if somebody already has a violent and psychotic personality it’s likely the video games they play are going to be the ones that involve wall to wall senseless violence. But that’s only because they’re choosing a source of entertainment that suites their personality.

If there was even an ounce of validity to that assertion then we would be seeing more mass killings than ever before in history, but we aren’t we’re seeing less. There isn’t even a remote corellation between the number and violence level of video games and the number of these incidents.

One could certainly engage in a reasonable discussion about if a lot of the senselessly violent games have any place in a civilized society. But trying to make the assertion that they somehow magically morph otherwise completely rational and normal people into violent murderers is asinine.

This argument is the equivalent of saying that pornography turns people into rapists.

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- sbenard
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 12:38am
  Pornography DOES turn some people into rapists. Just ask Ted Bundy!
  
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- Buchanan16
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 1:41am
  No, your kinda missing the point. Video games desensitize the resistance of killing. So that + a screw loose = mass murderer.
  
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- Crazyotto
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 2:00am
  I think you are wrong.. Kids who watch hours of video games and violent movies are not learning proper conflict resolution … they see the best way to solve problems is to kill your opposition.
  
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- The-Real-Enrico
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 3:08am
  Sorry but most on here have no idea what are talking about on this issue and I am both sad and upset with Beck for taking this very wrong, uninformed and intellectually primitive position.
  
  I can’t not in good faith send him my hard earning money anymore.
  
  This is another crazy scape goat like blaming guns. This is just as dumb as when Jamie Fox said it.
  
  The issue in entertainment supporting violent behavior is in glorification of villains, crooks, murders, thugs and the demonetization of all of our cultural structures and history.
  
  I have played most violent of video games since a I was a child. You name them I have played them and beat them and I am still even sicked to the stomach just about every time I see violent videos such as someone being wacked on the head with a stick and half of the videos that can be found on America Funniest Home Videos. I don’t find videos of people receiving serious injuries funny unless it is caused by the up most stupid self inflicted manner and even at that most are not funny.
  
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- DLV
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 3:17am
  Real-Enrico- I’m with you here bro. This is where I draw the line with conservatives. I am a writer as well and with games like Fallout, they have great story lines. Violent? Yes. But so is the world. Anyone who blames games needs to have their head checked.
  
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- The-Real-Enrico
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 4:29am
  @DLV I’m just curious but do use your said writing talents on or for?
  
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- DLV
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 1:16pm
  I use my writing talents for creative writing fiction. Specifically fantasy. I’ve written one boom that I’m trying to get published. It’s like lord of the rings but quite different as well. Sic fi mixed in. I took creative writing fiction class at my college fall semester. Fun stuff. Anyway games to me are like stories you take part of that’s why I love them so much because you take an active role.
  
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homekeeper
Posted on January 3, 2013 at 11:44pm
I enjoyed this and believe there is a lot of truth to what he is saying. I’ve never understood why someone would want to play a game that involves killing others and I sure don’t understand why a parent would let their children play such video games. What you put in, eventually comes out. “For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he.” ~Proverbs 23:7

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- Wisdom7
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 12:04am
  The honest answer is they don’t know or don’t care. They really have no idea what is in these games and don’t pay attention to them. I don’t allow mine to play them. Actually, my daughter doesn’t even have an interest. However, I do play them. Why? I keep up on the industry, and it is somewhat of a hobby. I prefer RPG or strategy games myself.
  
  How many parents know what their kids are texting, Googling, or chatting about? Most of them have no idea.
  
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soybomb315_II
Posted on January 3, 2013 at 11:20pm
A bigger question would be…..what is the impact on society when a country is always at war and always printing money?

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- luxlife
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 12:54pm
  Off topic again
  
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- soybomb315_II
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 5:22pm
  oh i’m sorry – i thought we were talking about the things that have social impacts on our society
  
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JohnLarson
Posted on January 3, 2013 at 11:17pm
Alright, so fake blood in goofy video games = bad

But unregulated semi-automatics for sociopaths and terrorists = good?

The Supreme Court already ruled we can restrict the 2nd Amendment. Like the “can’t hell fire in a theater” principle for the 1st Amendment. Less powerful guns = less carnage. You want a licensed handgun that’s fine.

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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 1:05pm
  Actually you can yell fire in a theatre… You will only get into trouble if someone actually gets hurt because you did it, more likely to happen because of trampeling and fear. Considering a person is ‘falsely’ claiming a fire to get a reaction, and cause problems they would get into trouble.
  
  If there was a legitimate reason to yell “fire”, because there was a fire, you did the right thing, and will not get into trouble.
  
  It’s really not much more different than ‘libel’ or lies that can hurt another person.
  
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TRILO
Posted on January 3, 2013 at 11:15pm
Sorry, I do not buy this argument. Does it contribute, yes; The games are not the cause. Millions of teens and adults play these video games and millions of them are not out shooting or killing people. My older son plays these games and he is one of the most compassionate and well mannered kids I know. My family is always getting compliments on his behaviors. He hunts, does well in school and is well liked. The same goes for all of his friends.

Here are some thoughts to consider from a presentation titled “Why Teens Kill. Warning Signs, Causes, Triggers and Prevention” by Phil Chalmers

10 Causes: 10) Mental Illness & Personality Disorder, 9) Lack of Spiritual Guidance & Proper Discipline, 8) Fascination w/the Criminal Lifestyle & Poverty, 7) Peer Pressure, 6) Fascination w/Deadly Weapons & Easy Access to Guns, 5) Cults, Gangs & Hate Groups, 4) Drugs & Alcohol, 3) Anger & Depression-Suicide, 2) Obsession with Violent Media & Violent Pornography and 1) Unstable Family & Bullying at School.

80% of school shooters told one person, 50% told two or more. Most are not mentally ill but depressed and suicidal.

With any societal ill there are many factors that contribute to the actions. Murder is no exception. To place blame on one aspect of the problem is to deny the other equally detrimental factors. Placing the blame on the video games is like placing the blame on the gun. According to the above referenced expert Family Instability and Bullying is the #1 c

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- civilwarcometh
  Posted on January 3, 2013 at 11:21pm
  Ever heard of brainwashing?
  
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- Wisdom7
  Posted on January 3, 2013 at 11:25pm
  “Sorry, I do not buy this argument. Does it contribute, yes”
  
  Then you contradicted yourself. The “argument” was that it contributed. Not that it was the sole cause.
  
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- ltcwilly
  Posted on January 3, 2013 at 11:28pm
  You need to read Grossman’s book, “On Killing,” before you discount what he’s saying. He is the foremost authority on the topic. We have in an innate resistance to killing which can be eroded through certain conditioning. Violent video games have an eroding effect on people, but more likely on youth. When we switched rifle marksmanship targets in the Army from bulls eyes to human silhouettes, the willingness of soldiers to point their weapon at a human and pull the trigger increased exponentially. Are there other factors involved in killing? Of course, but Grossman is one of the best sources and should be listened to.
  
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- Wisdom7
  Posted on January 3, 2013 at 11:42pm
  Good point on the “human silhouettes”. I was going to mention a lot more stuff like that in my post below but it’s hard to really write anything comprehensive in 1500 characters.
  
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- tyuchic
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 12:10am
  Ask an advertising agent if he can influence behavior.
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 7:48am
  The problem is On Killing does include some outdated ideas. Actually some of the stuff he quotes on SLA Marshall has been contested, or refuted (possibly discredited) by other contemporary and later historians. Particularly that claim about trying to desensitize soldiers to kill others, and the ‘trigger-pull’ rate arguement. Infact, SLA Marshall’s own son researched through his father’s own works,evidence and research material, and found examples he felt were his father had smoothed over, or jumped to conclusions without proper evidence. Not to say that SLA Marshall was completely wrong, but it may not be as ‘cut and dry’ as he believed it to be.
  
  There are quite a few research articles that question certain premises of Grossman’s book, based on later more up to date research, and Grossman’s use of older discredited psycology based on a more freudian, etc ideas. Basically ideas that a person is born one way, that that outside stimulus determine reactions, and that reason and personal choice do not influence choices in anyway.
  
  http://web.mit.edu/cms/faculty/WarEffectMeaning.htm
  
  “He reverts to a behaviorist model of education which has long been discredited among schooling experts…Grossman’s model only works if we assume that players are not capable of rational thought, ignore critical differences in how and why people play games, and remove training or education from any meaningful cultural context.”
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 8:02am
  However, his book should be read, along with the critics, and other experts, and people need to come to their own conclusions after research. Not mindlessly agree with any single POV.
  
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Wisdom7
Posted on January 3, 2013 at 11:06pm
I just finished watching this show earlier. Grossman makes very valid points. I am a military and law enforcement veteran. I’ve been an active shooter/hunter since around the age of seven. I’ve been trained to shoot everything from a handgun to a hand held missile. I also have and do play computer/console games. I agree with his assessment that many of these games in the first person shooter (FPS) genre are much like a simulator conditioning kids playing these games to shoot, kill, and gain more points. They also become addicted to them. If any of you have ever played online games, you know full well there are people who will stay up playing games 24 hours straight or even longer!

I have also noticed over the last couple of years a change in games, and I am not talking about better graphics and AI either. It used to be that the good and bad guys were pretty well defined, much in the same way kids used to play cops and robbers. Yet, in a lot of games coming out lately the “hero” is a somewhat of a bad guy, demon, or a character with an evil nature. There are no clear lines. Many of them have become very graphic, dark, vulgar, devoid of morality, obscene, and very disturbing to the point of absurdity. The only thing clear is there are enemies to kill and the player must kill them.

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- Wisdom7
  Posted on January 3, 2013 at 11:09pm
  A good example of a vulgar and obscene game is Borderlands 2. The point is basically to kill a bunch of vulgar maniacs (trust me they are obscene and vulgar), monsters, and get more loot while following a pretty sad story line. You can blow their heads off in a splash of blood while they talk about doing bad things or shoot them with flaming bullets and watch them burn to ashes while screaming.
  
  The point of this show was to discuss some of the “why” these changes are taking place in our society, and I am sorry but these games and movies do contribute. Everything from games like Borderlands to Hitman or Grand Theft Auto to movies like “Wanted” where a lowly office guy becomes an assassin killing people left and right and asks at the end “What have you done lately?” as if you too must go out and shoot and kill people.
  
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- civilwarcometh
  Posted on January 3, 2013 at 11:20pm
  You explained that perfectly.Right on the money.
  
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grimmster
Posted on January 3, 2013 at 10:38pm
The video games are merely the drug, its the parents that are the pushers.parents today are too busy (for whatever reason),to take care of little johnny encinom, and as a result, you get nothing but chidren of the corn. Blame the parent first, THEN the stimulas aka video games, and violent movies….

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- VoteRightDammit
  Posted on January 3, 2013 at 11:00pm
  I agree – partly.
  
  Agree: Moms too busy seducing their tennis coach, & Dads their secretary, sought any means to not be bothered by their progeny. Video games proved to be one of the better ways to keep their offspring out of sight.
  
  Disagree: video games (most of them – the violent ones) are simply ‘flight simulators’, giving players experience before the real thing. The games we are speaking about – and these are the majority of those available – teach players how to NOT feel remorse, how to kill without concern, and score the ‘winner’ based on body count. You killed more than anyone else? YOU WIN!
  
  Now, true – most players will not translate their simulator training into real-life action. But we are speaking about the fringe, troubled player who is susceptible. THESE players ARE prone to acting out their fantasies – especially if they are accomplished ‘killers’.
  
  BTW: movies, etc. perform the same function (i.e., The Expendables).
  
  How could we NOT anticipate that the more troubled of the population might be triggered from this overwhelming, mass indoctrination into simulated killing ???
  
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- Exrepublisheep
  Posted on January 3, 2013 at 11:13pm
  GrimmVoter, I agree with you both. grimmvoter…..hhmmm…….
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 1:53pm
  Actually before video games people had dreams… Dreams were a ‘release’ for tension and certain subconsious fantasies. In a normal person, the actions that might occur in a ‘dream’, won’t influence reality… by ‘acting out’ in the dream, they let out the tension in a safe environment rather than taking out on someone in real life. So keep in mind, a ‘warped’ dream isn’t necessarily a sign of a crazy person. Dreams generally pretty ‘weird’.
  
  In a crazy person the edge of reality vs. dream or now ”games’ is blurred, and they cannot see the difference between the two.
  
  There is research that video games probably act in the same way. It may cause more violent insane people to be more violent, and it may be a release for the normal persons.
  
  That being said there is importance of moderation, and not being addicted. But any thing can become a vice. It’s not limited to video games.
  
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Ragnars Repos
Posted on January 3, 2013 at 10:32pm
Conservatives target video games and movies. The new book burning.

The Progressives (repackaged Communists) are preparing to confiscate guns and you all are trying to ban kids’ games.

Well done, Conservatives–true to form.

You would think Mr. Beck would be talking about the right of a human to defend themselves with a gun. Nope…XBOX.

Strange days.

Funny how Conservatives so readily send their sons and daughters to fight, suffer and possibly die for god and country, but want to ban make-believe here at home. Nuts!

The government is going to be committing their own brand of massacre soon–Sandy Hook won’t compare to that river of blood. Taking video games and movies from American citizens WILL NOT curb violence. It’s ridiculous on its face.

The math doesn’t support Beck’s or this guy’s conclusions. You can’t rationally blame games and movies for massacres, sorry.

Here’s our problem, folks: COLLECTIVIST ROT, psychological subversion, the Progressives are tearing us down…your mind is the prize.

________________________________________________

“Stop calling them “shooters”. I’m a shooter, you’re a shooter.” Sound familiar, Blaze editors? I also mentioned the term “gunman”, which was splattered all over this site after Sandy Hook.

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- grimmster
  Posted on January 3, 2013 at 10:40pm
  @ragnars aka encinom.
  You forgot your meds BOY,now go away you pos punk….
  
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- RLTW
  Posted on January 3, 2013 at 10:50pm
  Alright genius, present a better explanation as to why children are killing children?
  
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- Ragnars Repos
  Posted on January 3, 2013 at 10:53pm
  @Grimmster
  
  I really hate when Bubba’s like you sully my posts with your mental drool.
  
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- VoteRightDammit
  Posted on January 3, 2013 at 11:02pm
  No, buffoon.
  
  It’s not “video games” …
  
  it’s the tsunami of simulated killing found in video games, movies, etc.
  
  Video games could just as easily be themed around something other than mass murder. Why do you advocate mass murder video games???????
  
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- Chetnik
  Posted on January 3, 2013 at 11:07pm
  @Ragnars. You’re not the only one. I agree with you 100%. The “conservative” view on these works of art (video games, movies, music, etc) is what is destroying their “movement.”
  
  I think everyone should watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uwAo8lcAC4
  
  It’s from a British guy, but he’s mainly commenting on British media.
  
  The problem is the MEDIA. These school killings are NOT NEW. The only thing that is NEW is the amount of coverage each of these tragic acts receive. In fact, violent crime rates have gone DOWN since violent video games have come into the market.
  
  STOP attacking new art (again movies, games, music, etc), or you stand to destroy any possibilities of fixing REAL issues (like the economy) as more and more of the US population is exposed to these new medias, AND LIKE THEM!
  
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- Seabass82
  Posted on January 3, 2013 at 11:13pm
  Repo,
  Who controls the video and movies? Could it be the same progressives that are causing the rot? Of course they know, violence, whether through video games or movies can have an affect on someones thinking…….thats why they are producing this garbage! After all, your mind IS their reward! I do agree with you on the governments massacre that is to come.
  
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- Ragnars Repos
  Posted on January 3, 2013 at 11:19pm
  @RTLW
  
  A certain percentage of humans are insane, suffering major intra-cranial malfunctions.
  
  Violence is a part of life. All violence is not bad. I will kill someone with my bare hands if they try to harm my family. I’m a violent person at that point.
  
  Now, you might have something if you say that violent games and movies cause insane humans to do insane things. But to put forth that they turn otherwise sane humans into mass murderers is a huge stretch.
  
  The question should never be “What are WE going to DO TO EACH OTHER to stop school massacres?” THAT’s insane, and it’s collectivist at its roots. “WE” isn’t the problem, Adam Lanza was. To work to blame and punish millions for the act of one malfunctioning human is, again, insane.
  
  Progressivism (repackaged Communism) moves us to act as one to shackle ourselves. It creates one neck for one leash, if you will. Blaming guns, games, or movies is a symptom of the Progressives’ successful implementation of their brand of collectivist rot.
  
  On the heels of every new crisis will come a cry from the Borg-like masses for the pols to “protect them” from life. Tyranny will fast become “necessary”, won’t it?
  
  Progressives are actively working to fell this Republic. The sooner we accept that the sooner we can begin to offer up some semblance of opposition. As it stands, there is none to speak of.
  
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- Ragnars Repos
  Posted on January 3, 2013 at 11:56pm
  @SEABASS83
  
  “Who controls the video and movies? Could it be the same progressives that are causing the rot?”
  
  I believe Progressives are using games and movies to advance their agenda, sure. In fact, they are using your paycheck to do it.
  
  Here’s just a bit of proof: http://townhall.com/tipsheet/carolplattliebau/2012/09/17/the_government_propaganda_machine_revs_up
  
  Now, this is propaganda, as good as it gets. There is no other kind of propaganda than this. The pols take your money then use it to “get your minds right” as you watch your favorite nighttime “soap opera”.
  
  The Conservatives should stomp on this note and play it constantly until people wake up to what the Progressives are doing. You remedy propaganda with sunlight (or your own propaganda), when you can’t yet jail your enemies for treason.
  
  But attempting to blame the massacre of children on games and movies is completely off-topic, and serves the left.
  
  The legendary massacre that is heading our way if we fail to act against the Progressive onslaught must be the topic of the day, if we are to remain a free country.
  
  Yes, it is really happening, folks.
  
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- RLTW
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 12:14am
  RAGNARS
  
  It’s nice that you could answer half the question for yourself.
  “Now, you might have something if you say that violent games and movies cause insane humans to do insane things.”
  
  It’s believed by many in the psychological community that for every case of insanity there are, at least ten latent cases who seldom get to the point of breaking out openly. With the addition of murder simulation these latent cases are now being influenced by outside perverse factors.
  
  We are creating criminality in young latent minds, (The why) Lanza was far from latent, so the question is what/why will the next ten kill, it’s clear this segment make up a small percentage but it’s also clear they compensate by being extremely dangerous.
  
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- Ragnars Repos
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 12:40am
  @RLTW
  
  I had a feeling as I typed that part…
  
  Insane people are spurred to commit insane acts by any number of things, some are even real.
  
  Some say “god” told them to do it, some say a rock song, others say a book…
  
  Why not focus on the problem of insanity, instead of advocating against a quite peaceful pastime for many humans?
  
  I know religious people see things in the shadows, but the rest of know that Call of Duty is a war GAME, and not a real war.
  
  The XBOX, or the law-abiding sane people of this country should not be held accountable for the acts of the insane. I don’t know how else to say it.
  
  Dare I say, I like to watch violent movies, and I enjoy violent video games. It allows me to experience that profound part of the human condition without actually having to bleed. It’s healthy, in fact. If it wasn’t a game or a movie, I’d be picking the brain of the nearest combat-experienced soldier to hear his/her stories. I also like books with graphic details about the revolutionary war–I want to know what it was like, all of it. That doesn’t make me, or those like me, prone to murdering school children in cold blood.
  
  Stay the heck away from my guns, my XBOX, and my oh-so violent Stargate SG-1, Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica, Band of Brothers, etc, all of you frightened little mini-tyrants.
  
  There far more important things to be doing at present than damning video GAMES.
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 6:01am
  So what you are saying is violent video games are to blame, and that we should ‘ban’ or ‘censor’ video games for all just because a “few ‘people might be influenced to go on a killing spree by playing the games?
  
  Isn’t that the same arguement gun control nuts make for banning guns?
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 6:06am
  It’s not “conservatives” alone who want to ban video games, several liberals want to as well. Hillary Clinton has been on the band wagon in the past IIRC. I’d argue its a ‘progressive’ thing, they want to controlt he industry…
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 6:08am
  It’s not “conservatives” alone who want to ban video games. I think liberals were in on it as well. Hillary Clinton has been on the ban/censor band wagon for years, IIRC. I’d argue its a ‘progressive’ thing, they want to control the industry. It’s successful, and they want their grubby hands directly into it.
  
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- RLTW
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 10:39am
  RAGNARS
  
  I could take your defense of video games and replace it with AR-15 and you’d be a great 2 AMD advocate. I’m not against video games, in fact used correctly and with purpose they’ve been very useful to military training, I’ve even watched young Soldiers come in from patrols in OEF/OIF and play call of duty, guitar hero.
  
  I would not give an 8-12 yr old a cigarette and a beer any more than I would let them play grand theft auto, or Hit man without some kind of perspective and tactile feedback beyond vibration, shock controllers would be a good idea.
  
  I played Army as a kid and lost 2 teeth to a rock grenade, now that was real combat feedback, I spent 24 years in the military simulating combat and surviving actual combat many times over, I can tell you one key to survival is rehearsal, (simulation) but in the real world you feel the weight of your equipment, short windedness, sweat and the pumping of your heart and in the end your just glad you survived the rehearsal.
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 7:33am
  One person asked who is ‘controling’ the video game industry? I’d point out thatis probably, along with books, and radio, the internet, one of the actual last vestiges of free speech and free market in the entertainment industry (no one specifically controls it, and people can create their own ‘studios’ and try to go indipendent if they have an idea), there is actually alot of indie development on games. Game designers come from all walks of life, liberal, and conservative, and libertarian. Sometimes conservative minded designers make violent games, or include sexual themes. The best of these writers will use it in some kind of profound way to make some point. Similar use of such content would appear in novels as well, take for example Glenn Beck’s Agenda 21. But other conservatives don’t play those games, and don’t know the person, and attack the games. Even if those games might actually be introducing conservative or libertarian ideas.
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 7:35am
  A good example is the Deus Ex games. The guy who came up with the idea of the series is a big Alex Jones fan. Their is even a character in the first game based on Alex Jones, and another one in the third you can hear on the radios throughout the game. The entire premise is essentially that all the conspiracy theories Alex Jones mentions, are true (fema, bilderberg, etc)! That NWO and Illumanti, and others have been trying to control world for centuries, and in the future have succeeded. The game is in part a warning of dangers of a dystopian future, and giving up our constitutional freedoms. and warning against UN and big government, and is very much a libertarien message.
  
  Infact, Glenn Beck’s agenda 21 could probably make a good setting for video games, movies, etc. and could introduce alot of players to the dangers of the possible future, if we keep going down this path.
  
  But, eh we all know progressives want to get their hands into every industry, if they can’t control them, they will try to destroy them by any means…
  
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Monfang
Posted on January 3, 2013 at 10:28pm
Glenn, I like ya but you really need to do better than this.

Here’s a real expert: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uwAo8lcAC4

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- Chetnik
  Posted on January 3, 2013 at 11:19pm
  Lol i just linked that!
  
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- Chetnik
  Posted on January 3, 2013 at 11:25pm
  Shows like this just reinforce my decision to cancel my subscription. I’m done financially supporting Mr. Beck’s cultural crusade.
  
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- Ragnars Repos
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 1:19am
  Just watched the video. Nice.
  
  Conservatives waste so much time with their oddball witch hunts.
  
  I wonder if we’ll hear Satan’s voice if we play Black Ops II backwards? (Older folks will know what I mean by that.)
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 6:11am
  I don’t think this is a “conservative” thing. IIRC, progressive liberals have been trying to control the movie and video game industry as well… Hillary Clinton has been on the ban or censor video game bandwagon herself for years, and she is no ‘conservative’ (she’s another progressive and power hungry).
  
  http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500397_162-713544.html
  
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marybethelizabeth
Posted on January 3, 2013 at 10:11pm
Only Mr. Beck can reduce an intelligent guest and military expert to a pop culture commenter.

Because of Mr. Beck’s low opinion of his audience and his own meager intellect, his show should be renamed “Wasting Time with Glenn.”

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- Wisdom7
  Posted on January 3, 2013 at 10:15pm
  What an asinine comment. Did you even watch the show?
  
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- Popp40
  Posted on January 3, 2013 at 10:23pm
  Yep we all know it is the evil guns that are the problem and those violent video games and movies that glorify violence has nothing to do with it. After all they are just stress relievers right Marybethelizabeth?
  
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- Dougral Supports Israel
  Posted on January 3, 2013 at 10:30pm
  I thought some very good points were made. Its something that has to enter the “conversation” as the media likes to call it.
  
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- grimmster
  Posted on January 3, 2013 at 10:34pm
  @harrybeth aka enciloon.
  Yep, this from a video playing 12 year old obese pastey white rich punk in californication.Not go back to playing halo you pos punk….
  
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- WildschweinJager
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:08am
  @Mary
  
  Can I get a large fry and quarter pounder with cheese, please?
  
  Thanks
  
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