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Listen to Bizarre 911 Call Made by Priest After Getting Stuck in Pair of Handcuffs, While Reportedly Wearing a Gag — Inside Church!

Jan. 4, 2013 6:52pm Jason Howerton

The pastor of St. Aloysius church in Springfield, Illinois has been placed on a leave of absence after he called 911 from the church and told a dispatcher that he needed help getting out of a pair of handcuffs he was “playing” with. When police arrived to help him, they found him also wearing some sort of a gag, according to sources cited by the Illinois Times.

“I’m going to need help getting out before this becomes a medical emergency,” Father Tom Donovan told a dispatcher on Nov. 28. The audio of the call has since been released.

“You’re stuck in a pair of handcuffs?” the dispatcher asks.

“Playing with them and I need help getting out,” Donovan replies.

Listen to the bizarre call below:

Comments (169)

Master_Mason
Posted on January 5, 2013 at 8:47am
Imagine the Grand Canyon. The vast, overall beauty of the canyon. Soak it all in. Now, if the media only showed nothing but close-up photographs of rotting animal carcasses, covered in maggots, in various stages of decomposition. If all you ever saw in the newspapers and TV news stories were nothing but zoomed-in images of rotting carcasses, coyotes feeding on prey, vultures feeding on the carcasses at the bottom of the canyon, etc. and that’s ALL you EVER saw, year after year, would you EVER have an appreciation for the Grand Canyon?

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- dublinthewagons
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 10:44am
  That is why I avoid Washington D.C. my first visit I didn’t see the rotting carcases.
  Now my eyes are open and have no desire to go back.
  
  Report this comment
- bastone
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 2:17pm
  you expect dead animals in the canyon. not so in the church
  
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- CafeConservative
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 7:07pm
  Spot on, Bastone.
  
  The problem is a specific church that’s made it a regular practice to say, “nothing to see here” when someone finds a corpse instead of saying, “oh sh**, a corpse, something’s wrong and we’re going to take care of it.”
  
  Report this comment
- Elomay
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 1:30am
  Again CafeConservative shows that he doesn’t follow Jesus Christ. He said he came to save the sinner not the self-righteous. If there is a fellow brother in Christ that is stumbling on his path to God are we to kick him while he is down or offer him a hand back onto the right path? This is what the Catholic church does. It sounds to me CafeConservative that you would rather condemn instead of forgive.
  
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- Greenwood
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 11:51am
  @ELOMAY………”This is what the Catholic church does. ”
  
  We know what the Catholic Church does………………..that’s the problem. How many centuries do we have to wait for them as an organization to repent. Like the Pharisees the Pope sought prominence and power. Jesus said “he that conducts himself as a lesser one among you will be great.”
  Luke 14:11 “Everyone that exalts himself will be humbled and he that humbles himself will be exalted.” Jesus wants his followers to be humble, that is lowly in mind and free of pride and arrogance.
  
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- CafeConservative
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 10:02pm
  No Elomay, I’m showing that I follow Jesus and His Word and you follow the Church and place it before the Word. “Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. ***Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning.****” So where is the public rebuke by the Church for the molesters? Where is this priest’s rebuke? While you’re answering questions, feel free to tell me what we are taught of rebuke or are you completely ignorant of that Christian obligation? Are you so simple-minded to think are only obligation is forgiveness?
  
  You say I don’t follow Christ but I do what I can. I fall waaaaay short but am working on my failures. What I don’t do, however, is to not be confident when I am certain of what His Word says.
  
  What I find funny is your hypocrisy. You condemn me to the point of damnation (claiming I don’t follow Jesus) and then accuse ME of self-righteousness. Not only are you stumbling on your ignorance of Scripture, you’re practicing the epitome of hypocrisy. I’d tell you to read what Jesus thought about hypocrites but you obviously wouldn’t care. It seems the Church teaches YOU to be self-righteous and to project it onto others and then condemn them for your sin. I’ll pray for your understanding and forgiveness because you’re obviously lost on your own/with your Church.
  
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Soundstorm
Posted on January 5, 2013 at 12:59am
Far be it for me to judge but I will say it’s never wise to mix your private fantasies with your profession.

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- johnpaulkuchtajr
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 7:52am
  Should Bill Clinton have taken this advice; or, following in the path of JFK, Ted and a host of fine Dumocratic pols, was Bill only exercising the perks of the office?
  
  It’s incredible that a corrupt organization as large as the Catholic church hasn’t been prosecuted under the RICO statutes.
  
  Yeah, 12 years of Catholic schools; but, I’ll never darken the door of a Catholic church again due to the pedophile scandals. God-seeking folks don’t rape kids.
  
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begreen
Posted on January 5, 2013 at 12:59am
Who knows what really happen but one should remember Priest like Maximilian Kolbe who was sent to the concentration camp at Auschwitz. On July 31, 1941, in reprisal for one prisoner’s escape, ten men were chosen to die. Father Kolbe offered himself in place of a young husband and father. And he was the last to die, enduring two weeks of starvation, thirst, and neglect.

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- holy ghostbuster
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 3:49pm
  What does that have to do with Father Tom getting stuck in a pair of handcuffs?
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 12:18am
  What does holy ghostbuster got to do with your name ?
  
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piper60
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 10:02pm
So—–was it consentual?

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- rickc34
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 10:50pm
  He was just visiting with Bath House Barry and they were playing a little game then Biden showed up and……out came the cuffs, the rest is history.
  
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- THERAPTURCOMES
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 10:55pm
  When the resurrection/rapture passes them by what will they believe then.
  
  Christ even affirmed the resurrection/rapture Himself
  
  John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. http://youtu.be/UwL3rKteOng
  
  The only way to be saved and taken in the resurrection/rapture is through the Gospel Romans 10:9-10 & 1 Cor 15:1-4
  
  If you do not believe upon Christ then you will be left behind
  
  Report this comment
- begreen
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 12:35am
  John 14:3 These are important passages, but they have not had one word to say about a pre-tribulation rapture. As for Gospel Romans 10:9-10 & 1 Cor 15:1-4 can one be saved if one does not keep the commandants or John 6:53 if we do not eat his body. or 1 John 4:6 ; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. do we follow the leaders of the church? Also don’ forget Matthew 6:12 one has to forgive his bother to get to heaven.
  
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- piper60
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 9:15am
  i’d guess the fool didn’t use double-locking cuffs, which prevents over-tightening. hence the “mrfical emergency” And Backdoor Barney was busy appointing himself interim senator to replace Jofn Forbes Kerry, wh o is to replace Hillarious Clinton”at state.
  
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- THERAPTURCOMES
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 11:46am
  BEGREEN
  
  It most certainly does mean pre trib rapture. It can’t mean 2nd coming because the church comes with Christ at His 2nd coming. According to most people I know whom I know they think that Christs 2nd advent is the post trib rapture.
  
  They believe that once Christ comes He stays here but if you read John 14:3 you see that He comes for His church (bride) and then takes her back to heaven where He has prepared a place for her. This is not the 2nd advent, it is the resurrection/rapture
  
  The day of the Lord (7 year tribulation) starts at the signing or enforcing of the peace treaty with the many Daniel 9:27
  
  The church is told it is not meant for wrath 1 Thes 1:10 & 1 Thes 5:9-11
  
  Look at Rev 3:10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 12:38am
  THERAPTURCOMES Luke 17:26 explains it all “And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. The bad guys will be the ones taken not the good guys. 27They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all . —I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
  
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- THERAPTURCOMES
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 12:01pm
  BEBREEN
  
  Luke 17 is not the resurrection/rapture. Do you see any mention of the dead being resurrected just prior to the rapture?
  
  John 14:3 is Jesus Christ Himself declaring when He will come for the bride (church)
  
  John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
  
  In this verse we see that Christ goes to heaven (His Fathers house) to prepare a place for us just like in the ancient Hebraic marriage custom. Once that place He has prepared is ready the father will say “Go get your bride (church). Christ then will come, get His bride, and watch this, TAKES US BACK TO HEAVEN TO THE PLACE HE HAS PREPARED
  
  Note, He did not prepare a place here on earth, it is in heaven so we will be with Christ in heaven until the 2nd adevnt when the church RETURNS WITH Christ http://youtu.be/UwL3rKteOng
  
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Akira88
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:52pm
There is a possibility that the priest was handcuffed & gagged by a perp. Catholic priests are easy targets for the media and criminals. They don’t turn them in for the most part and try to remain discreet.

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- Black Horse
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 8:13am
  Yeah, I think the jury may still be out on this one. Since none of us was there, how can we know?
  
  I don’t think I’ll be so quick to judge just yet.
  
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- crackerone
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 3:22pm
  Think the disco-bondage-headgear was the tell.
  
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- holy ghostbuster
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 3:45pm
  @ AKIRA88 – yeah sure.
  
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LeadNotFollow
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:36pm
Priest involved in kinky sex. Doesn’t surprise me.

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Simonne
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:21pm
I’m not a devout Catholic but a Catholic nevertheless & I voted for Romney. True, I don’t understand why so many Catholics voted for Obama but as far as priests, as I went to Catholic schools, 95% are good priests. Like any religion or groups, there’s always some bad ones. My faith has nothing to do with a church, religion or rules. I just believe.

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- Greenwood
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:52pm
  Revelation 18:4 And I heard a voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. 5. For her sins have massed together clear up tp heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind.
  
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- CafeConservative
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 7:11pm
  The 95% aren’t good if they cover up for the 5%. But I do get your point. There are good people in the Church but, as a religion, it is failing miserably. There seems to be zero accountability in the Church and especially among those who should be held to the strictest accountability, those that lead.
  
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- Elomay
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 1:13am
  don’t worry CafeConservative is not a Christian. if he where he would believe in forgiveness. which is What Jesus is all about he would rather condemn millions of people because of the faults of a small few. he would probably even condemn Jesus because he did nothing to Judas
  
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- Greenwood
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 8:08am
  @ELOMAY……….”don’t worry CafeConservative is not a Christian. if he where he would believe in forgiveness. which is What Jesus is all about”
  
  Revelation 2:18-23 Jesus is speaking to the congregation in Thyatira and says “I do hold this against you” …………..and then says 21. “I gave her time to repent, but she is not willing to repent of her fornication. 22 Look! I am about to throw her into a sickbed, and those committing adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of there deeds.
  How long will Jesus wait for the Church to repent ? They have been corrupt for centuries. CafeConservative did say there were good people in the Church but, as a religion, it is failing miserably. Because he speaks the truth he is not a christian. They have as a organization failed miserably. Jesus said “I know your deeds.”
  
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- CafeConservative
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 5:35pm
  Was Jesus about blind forgiveness or did He demand repentence? When a church leader sinned was it something to be kept private or something to be brought before the entire congregation? Elomay, I know the answers and you obviously do not or you simply choose to toss God’s Word aside to protect your priests and the continued (sinful) actions of your Church.
  
  What is great is that you judge my salvation on the basis of a theological difference where your answer is rooted in ignorance and my is rooted in Scripture. If that was the sole basis for determining who between us is saved, I’d be working on myself and not worrying about others were I you.
  
  But please, keep rooting your judgments of my salvation on ignorance and assumption. It reinforces the fact that your belief system is actually what the rest of us know it to be and that is devoid of His Word.
  
  Report this comment
MCON29
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:21pm
My great hometown!!! A good friend of mine tool that call. You should hear him tell the story. He took everything he had not to lose control. He put him on hold to laugh!! We had a priest solicit sex from teenagers in a park notoriously known for being frequented by gays doing such. They almost beat him to death. I believe he was from the same diocese.

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begreen
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:18pm
Pedophiles aren’t confined to our Catholic churches. They are in Protestant churches, synagogues, and mosques. Some of them are teachers, counselors, scout leaders, truck drivers, factory workers, and youth ministers. In fact, they are wherever children can be found, irrespective of age, race, education, occupation, class, social standing, or income.

Celibacy isn’t the reason priests prey on children. Sexual attraction to children, and sexual gratification from children, are the reasons.

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- GBTVFan_Non_American_Overseas
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 9:14pm
  But, hey!, you have to admit that some of them did their best to be remembered as such!
  
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- CafeConservative
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 7:16pm
  They are indeed exposed in every part of society. It just seems that in the other parts of society they are condemned and castigated for their acts whereas in the Church they are given sanctuary and their behavior is excused.
  
  Regardless of whether celibacy as a Church policy contributes to such behavior, mandated celibacy is not a biblical concept. Christ Himself refused to mandate celibacy and only put it forth as a *personal* choice for priests.
  
  Report this comment
begreen
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:14pm
It is all a part of what society has been swept into — a disorientation that has made wrong right and right wrong and good out of fashion and in some cases (see the arrest of pro-lifers) against the law. The clear fact is this: during the 1960s and with increased momentum since, priests and everyone else has been positively surrounded and in fact inundated with lascivious images on the cover of magazines, suggestive news stories, sultry commercials, ribald Super Bowl ads, pounding carnal music, libertine philosophy, lurid supermarket magazines, nudie publications like Playboy, Penthouse, and Hustler, off-color TV shows, sexy soap operas, tasteless billboards, X-rated movies, sex-drenched Hollywood dramas, online pornography, evocative music, sex novels, provocative newspaper ads, news items constantly making free sex seem like the new norm, sex-themed Broadway plays, and so forth

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- alinmatt
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:37pm
  This behavior was prevalent prior to the 60′s. It may not have been displayed as the norm, but it was just as prevalent. It was just swept under the rug and people didn’t talk about it. The research that Kinsey did exposed this.
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 9:12pm
  Sadly its worst in the protestant group and doubly as bad in the public school system.
  
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- Spinmamma
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 12:24am
  @Alinmat Are you joking, I hope? Haven’t you heard that Kinsey’s “research” has been amost completely discredited?
  
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- CafeConservative
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 7:19pm
  “Sadly its worst in the protestant group and doubly as bad in the public school system.”
  
  Your evidence? Perhaps you shouldn’t project the failings of your faith onto other faiths.
  
  Report this comment
ronin_6
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:51pm
You mean Catholic priests are people too? Hmmmm who woulda thunk it?

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GBTVFan_Non_American_Overseas
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:43pm
“…Whip it…whip it good!!!”

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Excomunicatedmarine
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:41pm
LOL !

Question : was it little boy or Big Woman ??

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VoteRightDammit
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:40pm
seeing the headline I naturally assumed this would be an Episcopal minister, not a priest.

so now we know – depravity is not entirely limited to the Episcopalians!

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Stelex
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:35pm
The real problem here is …….. you can’t trust anyone anymore. Its over. Politicians, done…….Priests, done…….. judges, done…….media, done……….Fellow man…….choose wisely. Today’s society is so divided its just pathetic. I’ve had two friends my whole life, I trust them and nothing will sway that, all else are just fodder. Today, kids think they have thousands of friends, because they get a thumbs up. Pretty f’n sad. Honor, love, trust……all gone. Thumbs up……you got friends.

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- chips1
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:46pm
  I have 3 friends and it took 67 years to find them. They each have at least one.
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 12:51am
  CafeConservative What are you smoking? Man will always mess things up. But we have God’ promise that the gates of hell will not prevail. When 3000 were added on the Day of Pentecost who responded to Peter’s preaching (Acts 2:41). What do you think they were added to? . The NT was not even written yet. Right the church Singular as it was written upon this rock I will build my church He did not say churches!.
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 10, 2013 at 12:09am
  What ever happen to spell ck or grammar ? What kind of talk is this ?” you should practice what you preach!
  CafeConservative your a real king of ********! I gave you Biblical quote after quote and you totally ignore them. I firmly believe it’s because you can’t. That is because you can’t back up with scripture refuting what I given to you in the bible. Once more you prove to me your not even a true Christian. To prove my point try answering these simple biblical facts. I bet you can’t !!!
  1 How many books are in the KJ NT and what year was it compose and by who?
  2 How many books are in the NT Douay-Rheims Bible? compose and by who?
  3 What year was the NT bible put together ?
  4 What happen before the printing press how were the bibles distributed ?
  5 Who decided which books belong in the NT?
  6 Do you believe in the Trinity? If so, why? Does the Bible mention anything about there being one God, but 3 persons in God, each of Whom is fully God?
  7 How do you know the bible is inspired by God who told you?
  8 Why do we have some 25,000 + Protestant denominations all over the world, many teaching doctrines that absolutely contradict one another, when they all go by the Bible alone? Isn’t the Bible easy enough for everyone to read and come to the same conclusion By the Holy spirit as you say?
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 11, 2013 at 2:19am
  Hey CafeConservative— In short, God provided the spiritual gifts and that was all that was needed. “cafe? On your example on traditions it look like Paul didn’t get your teachings yet. I.E. Thus Paul tells the Corinthians, “I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you” (1 Cor. 11:2), and he commands the Thessalonians, “So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter” (2 Thess. 2:15). He even goes so far as to order, “Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us” (2 Thess. 3:6).
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 12, 2013 at 12:57am
  Cafe** ”Why does the catechism state that the magisterium determines Bible” This info you can find in the bible . 1 John 4:6 which says, “We are of God. Whoever knows God listens to us, and he who is not of God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.”. This is very powerful one should read and meditate on these words not just gloss over them. Thus proof God gave authority to men.
  Matthew 9:8 When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe …
  When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they
  praised God, who had given such authority to men. …
  
  Report this comment
Eastinfection
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:29pm
I’ve known tons of Catholic priests in my life, and 95% of them were really good people.
The other 5% were creepy as hell.
Guessing this dude is part of the 5%….
or…
Maybe it’s not as bad as we think…?
… and he just had a gambling problem…
… and the mob cuffed and gagged him as a warning…?

Meh. I give up. Probably a creep.
Release the hounds.

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- Stelex
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:43pm
  I know a few Priests ………its not the priests, its the Catholic church. The further away a pastor or priest is from the church, the more likely they are sincere. I have know doubt that once in a while, a pediphile will work his way in to a smaller church. But its much less likely.
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:55pm
  “its the Catholic church” Say fool What church are you talking about? Remenber whatJesus
  said about His church “that the gates of hell will not prevail!”
  
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- CafeConservative
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 7:23pm
  Too bad He was talking about His Church and not the Catholic one. Someone has swallowed a bit too much propaganda. But of course this incident isn’t a sign of the historical health of the Catholic church, right? I mean we know the Catholic church has existed for over 1,000 years and has a very pristine record, right? No? You mean it has been consistently embroiled with corruption its entire existence? Say it isn’t so.
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 12:56am
  CafeConservative What are you smoking? Man will always mess things up. But we have God’ promise that the gates of hell will not prevail. When 3000 were added on the Day of Pentecost who responded to Peter’s preaching (Acts 2:41). What do you think they were added to? . The NT was not even written yet. Right the church Singular as it was written upon this rock I will build my church He did not say churches!
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 12:30pm
  BEGREEN…………..you keep using that verse “the gates of hell will not prevail. ”
  Can you guess what thoes keys mean? He is in charge!
  
  Do you even know what that means ?
  
  It doesn’t mean he was in charge. Why would he say just a few verses down in Matthew 16:22,23 after telling them he would suffer and die; Peter says “Be kind to yourself, Lord; you will not have this destiny at all.” 23. Jesus turns his back and says to Peter “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me, because you think, not God’s thoughts, but those of men.
  In Acts 15 the issue of if non Jews were under the law of Moses. The apostles and the older men gathered together to decide the issue. Acts 15:28,29 There was no Pope. They used the scriptures and the words of the prophets Acts 15:13-18
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 3:54pm
  Greenwood your becomming the master of being wrong .
  just read what the early church fathers wrote again the’ll prove you wrong!
  In 1 Timothy 3:15 hmm it reads the pillar and ground of the truth.” is what the Bible? NOPE. ” But if I tarry long, that you may know how you ought to behave yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.” So the Bible says, the word of God says it’s the Church not scripture. Therefore, the final authority is God’s Church. So the Church founded by Jesus Christ is an singular visible authoritative church. Think about this, for the Bible to have authority the Church has to have authority. How do we know the Bible has no errors? How do we know which books are suppose to be in the Bible? Because the church tell us so. Since the Bible does not have a list to tell us which books belong in the Bible we need to rely on a source outside of theFor more evidence on authority let’s see Matthew 18:17″ But if he will not hear you, then take with you one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
  17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto you as a heathen man and a tax collector. Note what this passage does not say it does not say to consult scripture it says to consult the Church. In other words if one fails to listen to the church throw them out.
  
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- CafeConservative
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 5:59pm
  Begreen, the only way you can make your argument is by not letting the Scripture stand on its own. You add the word “visible” to make your point (which is still weak). Perhaps instead of relying on the policies of men (the Catechism) and reasoning of men (philosophy) to defend your beliefs, you should try putting your faith in God’s Word as it is alone the answer for everything you need to lead a righteous life.
  
  “Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?”
  
  “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
  
  Notice there is no need for your “authoritative,” “visible” church. You can PRETEND there is a divine gift of reasoning but I will continue to rely on a truly divine gift of knowledge (understanding the Word) that actually appears in the Word vice being something invented by your or your church.
  
  “To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, …”
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 7:28pm
  CafeConservative Live and learn are you truely ready for this . First of all when Paul wrote this scripture to Timothy the NT was not even written yet! Thus he was refering to the OT. 2nd don’t add words beyond profitable which doesn’t mean only. IE a solders gun is profitable but he still needs shoes , bullets, food etc
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 7:41pm
  CafeConservative Matthew 28:19″Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.”
  Now this proves this authority was passed on because the apostle could not live “unto the end of the world.” Also note they were told to teach all nations not to pass out Bibles for people to do this on their own without the aid of Jesus’ Church to decide what is true or false.
  2 Timothy 2:2 “And the things that you have heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.” Thus this passage shows that authority was pass on to four generations. E.g. 1st, Paul, 2nd, Timothy 3rd, faithful men 4th, teach others also. How was this authority pass on? Only thru the church Acts 1 ‘May another take his place of leadership.’
  Finally, remember Jesus started the one, true, holy and apostolic church. This church is both visible meaning the ones on earth and invisible the ones in heaven. Surely folks on earth will always screw things up but we got God’s word that the gates of hell will not prevail Matthew 16:15-20 ; thus it’s not just a bunch of manmade unauthorized fallible organized religions with everyone believing all they need to do is individually pray to the Holy Spirit and the
  
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- CafeConservative
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 8:19pm
  “First of all when Paul wrote this scripture to Timothy the NT was not even written yet!” You mean, when God had Paul write this and “told” him what to write, the NT hadn’t been written yet He knew what he meant when He said ALL Scripture?
  
  “Also note they were told to teach all nations not to pass out Bibles for people to do this on their own without the aid of Jesus’ Church to decide what is true or false.” Funny that the Church doesn’t apply that same logic to the word “traditions.”
  
  “How was this authority pass on?” The Scriptures answer but you choose to ignore. “I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ. For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. I was advancing in Judaism beyond many Jews of my own age and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers. (Ooh look what they mean by traditions) But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, *** I did not consult any man, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus.*** In short, God provided the spiritual gifts and that was all that was needed.
  
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- CafeConservative
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 8:33pm
  “Finally, remember Jesus started the one, true, holy and apostolic church.” I’m sure you’re aware that the RCC is not the only church that makes this same claim? But please, keep putting the Catholic Church before God’s Word since you desire to keep rationalizing why things don’t mean what they plainly say. And iIgnore the simplicity and divinity of “ask, … seek, … knock” and pretend that it instead says “walk down to your local Catholic Church, ignore their extrabiblical practices, and there you will find Me.” We can’t forget that God is not all powerful but instead needs men to fill in as intercessors though we know that Jesus alone fills that role. It’s not enough to just ask Jesus of your heart to forgive your sins while you repent but you have to throw in a few Our Fathers and a few Hail Marys just to make sure. At least you guys have stopped extorting money for remitting punishment once that terrible, terrible protestant challenged the corrupt practice.
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 8, 2013 at 12:59am
  CafeConservative You can interoert about paul all you want however it’s only your interperation. So I ask you again are you infallible? If not how do you know that you are right. So you can stick with all your fancy pridefull interperartions but I’ll stick to the one true church. AS it is written In 1 Timothy 3:15 hmm it reads the pillar and ground of the truth.” is what the Bible? NOPE. ” But if I tarry long, that you may know how you ought to behave yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.” So the Bible says, the word of God says it’s the Church not scripture.
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 8, 2013 at 1:01am
  And yes CafeConservative Paul told Timothy to hold on to traditions 2 Tim 3:14, Timothy is told: “continue in the things you have learned …knowing from whom you have learned them.” This verse strongly suggests Apostolic Tradition. In the same letter, Timothy is informed on how to pass on Christ’s teachings:
  CafeConservative “throw in a few Our Fathers and a few Hail Marys” Say brainless When is it wrong to pray the words from the bible ? Oh I guess the Holy Spirit has got it wrong Too sinse these words came from God!
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 8, 2013 at 1:11am
  CafeConservative Wake up and smell the truth! Matthew 18:17″ But if he will not hear you, then take with you one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
  17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto you as a heathen man and a tax collector. Note what this passage does not say it does not say to consult scripture it says to consult the Church. In other words if one fails to listen to the church throw them out.
  Again that’s one thrue church not many churches when will you learn ever learn?
  
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- CafeConservative
  Posted on January 8, 2013 at 6:46pm
  It’s funny how you respond to my posts but never my points.
  
  “So I ask you again are you infallible?” You an ask again but I already answered. The problem is that YOU are so prideful you’re not even considering what’s being written to you. YOU have all the answers so why bother, right? The Church has told you it has all the answers and you took it hook, line, and sinker. You ignore that the Bible’s direction to judge a tree by its fruit and instead make every single rationalization possible to defend the evil apparent in the Church.
  
  This isn’t a matter of interpretation, especially considering the Scripture provided you has had a plain message. So please continue with YOUR prideful positions and condescend to us as you’re only heaping coals on your own head and proving to everyone here how vapid your understanding of God and His Church is.
  
  As I said, you respond to posts but not their points. You talk about what Scripture was present when the apostles were speaking. Your position is that only the OT was available so citations of Scripture only apply to the OT yet when it comes to tradition, you ignore that the only tradition at the time was Jewish tradition and not the silliness that was later invented by the Catholic Church. By your own logic, it’s apparent that the apostles were talking of Jewish tradition and not the silliness that was to be invented by the RCC. Of course having a logically sound argument is not your strong point.
  
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- CafeConservative
  Posted on January 8, 2013 at 6:58pm
  “brainless”? Pot. Kettle. Black. You may wish to be more careful when you project your failures onto others. It’s apparent who is brainless.
  
  You question what the harm is in saying a few words from the Bible. Well, one is a prayer and the other is an extrapolation of verses into a prayer. One says this is the manner in which to pray and the other is an invention of Catholics. One is a simple prayer and has nothing to do with penance and the other is simply a bit of history twisted into a bunch of words to be mindlessly regurgitated for penance.
  
  But of course you need penance. Though it appears nowhere in the Bible as a requirement of forgiveness, the Church tells you that you must do it. You are NOT to have a personal relationship with your Savior but are instead to be a slave to the Church who will tell you what to believe and how to behave. You are to ignore developing spiritual gifts and learning what the Spirit (Holy Ghost) has to tell you and are instead to listen to men. Now those men may rape children and be involved in all matters of corruption (feel free to study your popes and their corruptions) but you will delude yourself into believing they are infallible. The Church tells you that you will NOT judge the tree by its fruit and that you are NOT to discern between good and evil but that they will do it for you.
  
  As a note of caution: you will reap what you sow in promoting such evil as godliness.
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 10, 2013 at 12:14am
  What ever happen to spell ck or grammar ? What kind of talk is this ?” you should practice what you preach!
  CafeConservative your a real king of ********! I gave you Biblical quote after quote and you totally ignore them. I firmly believe it’s because you can’t. That is because you can’t back up with scripture refuting what I given to you in the bible. Once more you prove to me your not even a true Christian. To prove my point try answering these simple biblical facts. I bet you can’t !!!
  How many books are in the KJ NT and what year was it compose and by who?
  How many books are in the NT Douay-Rheims Bible? compose and by who?
  What year was the NT bible put together ?
  What happen before the printing press how were the bibles distributed ?
  Who decided which books belong in the NT?
  Do you believe in the Trinity? If so, why? Does the Bible mention anything about there being one God, but 3 persons in God, each of Whom is fully God?
  How do you know the bible is inspired by God who told you?
  Why do we have some 25,000 + Protestant denominations all over the world, many teaching doctrines that absolutely contradict one another, when they all go by the Bible alone? Isn’t the Bible easy enough for everyone to read and come to the same conclusion By the Holy spirit as you say?
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 11, 2013 at 2:31am
  CafeConservative Hey cafe remember this ” the OT yet when it comes to tradition, you ignore that the only tradition at the time was Jewish tradition” you may need to get hold of Paul according to you we need to forget traditions he got it all wrong. Thus Paul tells the Corinthians, “I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you” (1 Cor. 11:2), and he commands the Thessalonians, “So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter” (2 Thess. 2:15). He even goes so far as to order, “Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us” (2 Thess. 3:6
  
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- CafeConservative
  Posted on January 11, 2013 at 5:11pm
  ” I gave you Biblical quote after quote and you totally ignore them.” Really? I think I mentioned multiple times where you took Scripture and then added your own opinion to try and make it same something it plainly did not. So please continue lying and proving that your position and your Church’s position cannot stand without adding to Scripture or lying.
  
  “To prove my point try answering these simple biblical facts. I bet you can’t !!!
  How many books are in the KJ NT and what year was it compose and by who?
  How many books are in the NT Douay-Rheims Bible? compose and by who?
  What year was the NT bible put together ?” And on and on and on. The funny thing is you can’t even discern a biblical fact. Those questions are extrabiblical genius. They are not found in ANY translation of the Bible. Please go educate yourself on what is actually contained within the Bible. Then go educate yourself on the fact that the books of the Bible pre-existed any compilation. In short, there was a “Bible” in use long before any group of men got together and put the Bible together.
  
  But thank you for your “you’re not a Christian” opinion based on ignorance and woefully lacking logic.
  
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- CafeConservative
  Posted on January 11, 2013 at 5:18pm
  “Do you believe in the Trinity? If so, why? Does the Bible mention anything about there being one God, but 3 persons in God, each of Whom is fully God?” Not as you believe it.
  
  “How do you know the bible is inspired by God who told you?” God told me in His Word but you knew this already, right? “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,”
  
  “Why do we have some 25,000 + Protestant denominations all over the world, many teaching doctrines that absolutely contradict one another, when they all go by the Bible alone?” Why does a single Catholic Church with a single person in charge at any given time practice against God’s Word by demanding priests be celibate though Christ made this a personal decision? Why does the Church fail to hold straying priest accountable for their sins as demanded by the Bible? Why does the catechism state that the magisterium determines Bible interpretation when the Bible says the Spirit blesses men as it chooses to have the gift of interpreting? Why do priests in San Francisco give communion to men in drag wearing habits? Why do priests molest boys without consequence and are hidden from law enforcement? This is the great church you think is Jesus’?
  
  But since you know everything about protestants and their beliefs, tell me which one I belong to and which one I own obedience to? Which one am I defending?
  
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- CafeConservative
  Posted on January 11, 2013 at 7:02pm
  “Isn’t the Bible easy enough for everyone to read and come to the same conclusion By the Holy spirit as you say?” What does it matter what I say? What does it matter what the Catholic Church says? Shouldn’t it matter what Scripture itself says? Of course that is the answer but you avoid it like the plagues just as you did when I asked what part the Holy Spirit plays in your life. Shamefully you know it doesn’t play any part and so you ignore it.
  
  “Hey cafe remember this ” the OT yet when it comes to tradition, you ignore that the only tradition at the time was Jewish tradition” you may need to get hold of Paul according to you we need to forget traditions he got it all wrong. Thus Paul tells the Corinthians, “I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you” (1 Cor. 11:2), and he commands the Thessalonians, “So then, brethren, …”
  
  Yep, whodathunkit. A Jew passing along Jewish traditions (you forgot to include those verses where Paul got everything from God and did not seek out the “established” guys — read church — before going out and teaching–how convenient you left that out, eh?). Too bad such simplicity is beyond your limited understanding.
  
  On that note, it’s getting to be pearls among swine and perhaps it’s time to shake the dust from my feet. CIao!
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 12, 2013 at 12:38am
  Cafe” Those questions are extrabiblical genius.” Thanks for the complement but don’t forget to ck your spell ck. Further It seems that you got part of it right that is extra biblical that is outside of the bible. Even scripture teaches this .I.E. John 21:25 “And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen
  What this means in simple language is that the bible is fragmentary as stated again in John 21:25 .
  ” Then go educate yourself on the fact that the books of the Bible pre-existed any compilation. In short, there was a “Bible” in use long before any group of men got together and put the Bible together. Here’s where you give a ridiculous contradiction . 1st you say” the bible is there before any group of men got together”???? like maybe the bible just fell out of the sky! Next you say ” men got together and put the Bible together” Can you see how ridiculously this sounds! And ” opinion based on ignorance and woefully lacking logic.” You better save these words for yourself.
  When are you going to answer this question below ? I loudly repeat!!!
  “Do you believe in the Trinity? If so, why? Does the Bible mention anything about there being one God, but 3 persons in God, each of Whom is fully God. I’m waiting. After all you did say that” God talk to you in His word”.
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 12, 2013 at 12:42am
  Cafe– “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,” Sure I agree the word is useful that doesn’t mean there is nothing more. as a solder’s boots are useful but he will still need his gun, backpack, food ,water, etc.
  ‘demanding priests be celibate though Christ made this a personal decision?’ No one is forced to be celibate—because no one is forced to be a Catholic priest. Priests freely choose to embrace the commitment of celibacy for the sake of serving God’s kingdom in a heroic way. In regards to celibacy of church leaders, in 1 Corinthians chapter 7, the apostle Paul teaches, “An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs — how he can please the Lord. But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world — how he can please his wife— and his interests are divided” (1 Corinthians 7:32-34). In some instances, celibacy has a positive impact on ministry. If a church leader is free from spousal and familial responsibilities, he can better focus on ministering to others. Jesus mentions some becoming “eunuchs” for the kingdom of God (Matthew 19:12). Celibacy is definitely allowed for church leaders, and to a certain degree, it is encouraged.
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 12, 2013 at 12:45am
  “[T]hink the Catholic Church has a problem?” she said. “The physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests” (John E. Dougherty, “Sex Abuse by Teachers Said Worse Than Catholic Church,” newsmax.com, April 5, 2004). Here again, the inconsistent treatment of this issue by the press is evident, for headlines do not warn people about the grave danger of “pedophile teachers.” Tom Hoopes notes that:
  
  The 2002 Department of Education report estimated that from 6 percent to 10 percent of all students in public schools would be victims of abuse before graduation—a staggering statistic. . . . Yet, during the first half of 2002, the 61 largest newspapers in California ran nearly 2,000 stories about sexual abuse in Catholic institutions, mostly concerning past allegations. During the same period, those newspapers ran four stories about the federal government’s discovery of the much larger—and ongoing—abuse scandal in public schools. (“Has Media Ignored Sex Abuse in Schools?, National Review Online, August 24, 2006)
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 12, 2013 at 1:16am
  Cafe** ”Why does the catechism state that the magisterium determines Bible” John 8:32 ” And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free” To set us free means to save us. This is critical for us to know the truth to be saved John 14:7 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. So truth is a person! To deny the truth is to deny Jesus. What did Jesus tell Pilot John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice. So truth is obviously an important commodity. So what does Scripture say is the ” pillar and ground of the truth”? In 1 Timothy 3:15 hmm it reads the pillar and ground of the truth.” is what the Bible? NOPE. ” But if I tarry long, that you may know how you ought to behave yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.” So the Bible says, the word of God says it’s the Church not scripture. Therefore, the final authority is God’s Church. So the Church founded by Jesus Christ is an singular visible authoritative church. Think about this, for the Bible to have authority the Church has to have authority. How do we know the Bible has no errors? How do we know which books are suppose to be in the Bible?
  the chu
  
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Guitar Master
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:28pm
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
From THE REPORTER
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

This is the reason I’m not a practicing Catholic any longer !

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- begreen
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:49pm
  Are you kidding me! You’re not a practicing catholic anymore??? What do you think happen to Jesus when Judas betrayed Him for 30 pieces of silver. I guess you would had said that you’re not practicing catholic back then also.
  
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- FISH_BONE
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:52pm
  Are you suggesting the Catholic church was present on the Earth at the time of Christ?
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:29pm
  Exactly, Ignatius of Antioch It is from the word katholikos (“according to the whole”) that the word catholic comes. When Ignatius wrote the Letter to the Smyrnaeans in about the year 107 and used the word catholic, he used it as if it were a word already in use to describe the Church. This has led many scholars to conclude that the appellation Catholic Church with its ecclesial connotation may have been in use as early as the last quarter of the 1st century
  
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- CafeConservative
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 7:32pm
  Begreen. Open your eyes. That word was an adjective and not the proper name of a church. It was simply a descriptor. Put don’t the Church Kool Aid. You’ve gotten drunk on it.
  
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- CafeConservative
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 7:37pm
  Put down*
  
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- Elomay
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 12:57am
  He is right the Chatolic church wasn’t called that at first, before that they refeared to themselvs as Christians. back when Jesus first founded his church there was only one group that followed Christ. the term Catholic or Roman Catholic was used as a derogatory term be people of the protestant church as a way of trying to make the Catholic church seem illegitimate. They couldn’t let them be known as Cristians, so they started calling them Catholic. However the Catholic church turned the other cheek and accepted the insult as a badge of honor. This is why we are now called Catholic. it’s a tactic that the Protestants still use to this day. however the term catholic, whcih means universal, has been used since the apostles, found in both the Apostles creed and the Nicene Creed. so they did refer to themselves as a group the univeral church. but at that time they would have called themselves Christians
  
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- Greenwood
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 8:17am
  @ELOMAY…..”the term catholic, whcih means universal, has been used since the apostles, found in both the Apostles creed and the Nicene Creed. so they did refer to themselves as a group the univeral church. but at that time they would have called themselves Christians”
  
  Has been used maybe since the time of the Emperor Constantine during the 4th century.
  
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- CafeConservative
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 6:14pm
  “Catholic was used as a derogatory term be people of the protestant church as a way of trying to make the Catholic church seem illegitimate” Yeah, it wasn’t the acts of selling forgiveness for coin. It wasn’t the horrible acts that one pope after the next committed. It wasn’t the denial of God’s Word to the lay man. It wasn’t one of a million other sins committed by the Church as DIVINE ACTS not just declared by popes but enacted by priests. Oh no, it was those evillllll protestants who dared to actually hold priests and the Church accountable to God’s Word.
  
  In truth, the Church was seen as derogatory without help from anyone. All one has to do is look at it throughout its history and see that it is anything but divinely sanctioned. You and Begreen can continue to pretend that His Church is a church led by a single man, fully corrupt from top to bottom, and full of wealth in a impoverished world or you can open your eyes and see that His Church is simply those men and women of whatever denomination (or no denomination) that work His Will. *HE* chooses them to be His Church and provides them with Spiritual Gifts to do His work.
  
  If the Church was His Church it would obvious by its actions instead of having to rely on scapegoating other denominations. There are verses about false teachers, false prophets, and judging a tree by its fruit. Look at the Church’s fruit. The answer lies right before you.
  
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Greenwood
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:25pm
1 Corinthians 5:12,13 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside,13while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.”

If the Caholic Church followed the advise of God’s word and the apostle Paul maybe much of their problems could have been avoided. Then again that’s the whole problem with the Catholic Church, not following God’s word.

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- Platonician
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:46pm
  The Church follows God. Don’t generalize. Don’t fall in the trap of the media, they will tell you about this priest but they won’t mention the hundred of thousands catholic priests and nuns that in this very moment are feeding the poor, teaching the Children, consoling the afflicted around the world!
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:03pm
  Say bud note the catholic church is God’s church He started it not man. It’s the Judas that screw things up while making it look bad for the Mother Tereas in the world and that the media hate so you ‘ll never hear about them.
  
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- Greenwood
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:14pm
  PLATONICIAN……..OK. That name says it all. That is what is wrong with the RCC. Instead of following the Bible they follow the philosophy and teachings of Plato and other Greek philosophers. Traditions and teachings of men.
  
  Colossians 2:8 Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry you off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ.
  
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- Greenwood
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:26pm
  @BEGREEN……..”the catholic church is God’s church He started it not man.”
  
  WOW!!! With the history of the Cathlic Church I would have to disagree on that one.
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:38pm
  King James Bible 1 John 4:6 “We are of God: he that knows God hears us; he that is not of God hears not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error”. Thus you better follow the leaders of God’s church as the bible says,as the word of God says!
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:46pm
  The Catholic church is two things 1st it’s God’s 2nd it’s man’s. The man part will at times screw things up . But remenber we got God’s word that the gates of hell will not destory His church. Why else do you think it has lasted 2000 years. Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
  
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- Greenwood
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 9:03pm
  BEGREEN………..”That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”
  
  What does Peter have to do with the Catholic Church? Nothing. Don’t give me that he was the first Pope line either. Peter was not a pope. Jesus said “For he that conducts himself as a lesser one among all of you is the one that is great.” Ya the Pope is real GREAT
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 11:18pm
  Greenwood Don’t go and get yourself all bent out of shape. it was Jesus who changed Simon’s name to Peter putting him in charge. Take it up with Him. As The first pope it’s an historical fact that after Peter trere was always someone else to hold that office. The Lord said to Peter, ‘On this rock I will build my Church, I have given you the keys of the kingdom of heaven [and] whatever you shall have bound or loosed on earth will be bound or loosed in heaven’ [Matt. 16:18 Can you guess what thoes keys mean? He is in charge!
  
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- Platonician
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 11:42pm
  @Greenwood
  “PLATONICIAN……..OK. That name says it all. That is what is wrong with the RCC. Instead of following the Bible they follow the philosophy and teachings of Plato and other Greek philosophers”
  
  God gave us reason, why should we despise that divine gift? Several of the writers of the Bible were Greeks influenced by Greek philosophy. Saint Paul, who wrote 13 of the books of the New Testament was a scholar well versed in Greek philosophy.
  Please forget the lies that the Obamas of Christianity, (Luther, Calvin, Erasmus) invented to discredit the Church, those lies only make of you an easy prey for the atheists and the enemies of the Faith.
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 12:04am
  PLATONICIAN one minor note the NT. part of the bible was compiled from the RCC the collection of New Testament books was finally settled at the Council of Carthage, 397, so how can they follow that part when it came from them?
  
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- Greenwood
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 8:45am
  BEGREEN…..”The first pope it’s an historical fact that after Peter trere was always someone else to hold that office.”
  
  The RCC is governed by the Popeand claims that each one is a so-called successor of Peter.
  Formosus (891-896) Nine months after his death his body was disinterred from the papal crypt and arraigned for trial before a cadaveric council, at which Stephen the new pope presided. The deceased pope was accused of inordinate ambition for the papal office and all his acts were declared invalid. The corpse was stripped of pontifical robes; the fingers of the right hand were amputated.
  The new catholic encyclopidia
  Stephen VI Within a few months of the trial of Formosus’ corpse a violent reaction ended the pontificate of pope Stephen; he was deprived of the pontifical insignia, imprisoned, and strangled. new catholic encyclopidia
  
  I have about a dozen or more examples of evil and corruption,. they allowed bloodguilt and spiritual and physical fornication to corrupt the church they ruled.
  Sergius III
  Stephen VII
  John XI
  John XII
  Benedict IX and others
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 10:05am
  Greenwood– Here we go again get your pencil out and start taking notes. You have an incorrect understanding of the Church’s teaching on infallibility. Infallibility has a very strict definition. It simply means the Pope, when teaching as the earthly head of the Church, to the entire Church, on matters of faith and morals, will be prevented from teaching error by the Holy Spirit. It doesn’t mean that the Pope cannot sin or that he cannot make mistakes. Did the Pope make mistakes regarding the sex scandal…possibly. But, did he ever teach to the whole Church that the sex scandal was an okay thing? No. Infallibility does not apply here. He’s still human. Tell me of a pastor of any church, anywhere, who doesn’t sin and who doesn’t make mistakes. Now Auxilius a follower of Formosus, and in several works composed about 908-911, he made a courageous and learned defence, both of Formosus and of the validity of his orders and those of his adherents. Morinus was the first to publish two of these writings in his “De ecclesiasticis ordinationibus” (Paris, 1665). They are entitled, “Libellus de ordinationibus a papâ Formoso factis”, and “Tractatus qui Infensor et Defensor dicitur”.
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 10:18am
  Greenwood Oh one more minor detail John 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
  
  Thus they are given full authority from Jesus as it is written.
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 10:50am
  John 14:16 “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever.” That means then and now not just one generation, or the doctrine of infallibility forever.
  
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- Greenwood
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 3:00pm
  BEGREEN………..”the Pope, when teaching as the earthly head of the Church, to the entire Church, on matters of faith and morals, will be prevented from teaching error by the Holy Spirit.”
  
  Prevented from teaching error, like the trinity, infant baptism, immortal soul, hellfire, purgatory, limbo, which they did away with April 20, 2007 etc. All false teachings and not bible truth.
  John 4:24 God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.
  John 8:32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
  
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- Greenwood
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 3:45pm
  @PLATO………”Paul, who wrote 13 of the books of the New Testament was a scholar well versed in Greek philosophy.”
  
  Paul was educated when he was Saul as a Pharisee not as a Philosopher.
  2 Timothy 3:16 “All scripture is inspired of God. and John 17:17 Jesus said to his heavenly Father “Your word is truth.”
  Philosophy on the other hand developed by humans who are imperfect and influenced by demonic spirits. 1 John 5:19 “The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.”
  I would be a mistake to choose deceptive human philosophy in preference to acquiring true wisdom as a disciple of Jesus Christ, the second-greatest person in the universe, next to God himself.
  
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- Greenwood
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 4:04pm
  BEGREEN…….”Did the Popes in the past make mistakes regarding the ……….Inquisition
  Did they say it was OK to torture and kill vast numbers of the population for hundreds of years?People like William Tyndale and others just for translating, reading, or even owning a Bible and also anyone who exposed their unscriputal practices. Truly, “the blood of holy ones” was freely poured out! Revelation 16:6; compare Matthew 23:33-36
  
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- Greenwood
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 4:18pm
  PLATO and BEGREEN……………It was nice talking with you but we are getting nowhere here so its time to “shake the dust off my feet.” and move on………………………….
  
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- CafeConservative
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 8:16pm
  “God gave us reason, why should we despise that divine gift?”
  
  Divine gift? Where in His Word do you find worldly reasoning as a divine gift? Last I checked, spiritual gifts were listed within the NT and in none of those lists do we find reasoning.
  
  Perhaps you missed a little of the “divine” message. “Where are the wise? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?”
  
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- Elomay
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 12:33am
  Sorry but the inqusision was not done by the Pope, but by the Spanish Government. sad to see people trying to change historical facts to attack others
  
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- Greenwood
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 8:41am
  @ELOMAY….”trying to change historical facts to attack others”
  
  The Catholic Inquisition lasted for over 500 years. Thats that facts Jack. All you have to do is open an encyclopedia my friend or in this age of technology “google it”. The papal Inquisition was formally instituted by Pope Gregory IX 1231 Following a law of the Holy Roman Emperor Frederick II and extended t the entire empire in 1232,Gregory ordered convicted heretics to be seized by the secular authorities and burned. Two informants whose identity was unknown to the victim were usually sufficient for a charge. Everything was well recorded back then.You are right the Spanish did the same thing in Portugal and Spain, but history is clear.
  
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- CafeConservative
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 10:40pm
  Greenwood, I would honestly love to hear your position on the trinity or see a link to a site that shares your take.
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 8, 2013 at 1:15am
  CafeConservative I got bad news for you but the word Trinity is not in the bible.
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 8, 2013 at 1:34am
  Greenwood you are a complete fool saying “Prevented from teaching error, like the trinity, infant baptism, immortal soul, hellfire, purgatory, limbo, which they did away with April 20, 2007 etc. All false teachings and not bible truth.” You list 7 topics of which show your total ignorance each of these can be explain easily however I’ll only teach one topic at a time so don’t go around rattling of a bunch of topics at once! take your pick.
  
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- CafeConservative
  Posted on January 8, 2013 at 6:36pm
  “CafeConservative I got bad news for you but the word Trinity is not in the bible.”
  
  You’re right, it’s not. No one here said the word appears in the Bible. Besides just acting like a silly child at this point, what’s the purpose of your reply to my request to another poster?
  
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DZ-015
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:20pm
They didn’t find the dominatrix hiding in the confessional?

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- M13
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:06pm
  Yes they did and his name was Encinom.
  
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- YOURSENSEI
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 11:20am
  Mr or Ms DZ-015,
  
  This is what you must know:
  
  They found a flashlight in his rectory.
  
  It is so.
  
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TH30PH1LUS
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:19pm
For the time has come for judgment, and it must begin with God’s household. And if judgment begins with us, what terrible fate awaits those who have never obeyed God’s Good News? 1 Peter 4:17

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oldwmn
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:15pm
Nothing to see here move along these are not the two droids your looking for,,,,,me thinks the priest do deeds most foul alas his (_)(_) was in a sling ..and they of pointy hats will move him far far away..and while we are at it lets pass the collection plate to get more cash for more coverups

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loafer4952
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:08pm
Dumb arse catlics………. Need to find a good woman….

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- TIMEBOMB
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:11pm
  Or a locksmith
  
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GuruMeditation
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:02pm
Pretty damned strange to say the least.

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TIMEBOMB
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 6:59pm
Who says I have a war on Catholics? He insisted I use the cuffs and I was hesitant at first then I thought if something goes wrong my young strong muscular SS men will get me out of the situation and they did!

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Netsurfer2
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 6:57pm
Looks like the little boy out smarted him this time!!!

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- blanco5
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:03pm
  You win! Everybody else don’t even try.
  
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- civilwarcometh
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:09pm
  Catholic church has become a hideing place for men who are gay and prey on little boy’s. Catholic’s who go to these churches and give them their money are just as stupid as a obama voter. Oh i forgot over 60% voted for him again so their’s your answer.
  
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- jman-6
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:12pm
  Funny….But Sooooo Wrong! LOL
  
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- Walkabout
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:20pm
  civilwarcometh
  Actually some gays believe they are smeared by that & resent it believing they have refuted it. I found stuff to suggest otherwise. Such as priests going thru seminary complaining about the hot house/bath house atmosphere there.
  So, many gays are atheists that you would expect fare fewer than 2 or 3% to be in the priesthood. But I bet it is more than 3%. Which if true would be revealing.
  
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- scrapadapolis
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 7:25pm
  Im with that you win.
  
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- begreen
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:58pm
  Catholics who report attending church weekly voted for Romney over Obama 57 percent to 42 percent. But — those believers who do not attend weekly yielded an inverse pattern, choosing the president over the Republican contender (56 percent to 42 percent). As for Protestants, 70 percent of those who attend church weekly chose Romney (and 55 percent of those who don’t attend weekly still selected the GOP candidate).
  
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- Cloth Stews
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 11:17pm
  Houdini’s record was never in jeopardy.
  
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