Developing: Pakistani Plane Escorted by UK Fighter Jets — 2 Men Arrested

Doc Thompson’s 24-hour radio marathon, ‘#24forok,’ continues until 9 am ET — Listen Live!

Faith

Patriotic Group Denies Removing Jesus & Telling Members to Stop Praying in Christ’s Name: ‘An Absolute Falsehood’

Jan. 4, 2013 8:06am Billy Hallowell

On Thursday, TheBlaze reported about an intense controversy surrounding The Daughters of the American Revolution (DAR), a non-profit women’s organization devoted to promoting patriotism. According to a subset of DAR devotees, references and mentions of Jesus Christ have been removed from the group’s official book. Additionally, these individuals also claim that select poems and prayers have been axed, with members allegedly also being told to refrain from praying in Christ’s name. But as the debate heats up, DAR is pushing back, claiming that these charges are unfounded.

In a message posted on the group’s official Facebook page, the women’s group decried the supposedly “false and incorrect information” that is being circulated about its 2011 Ritual and Missal book. The post also noted that the organization is “disappointed” to learn about the spreading of these charges. Accompanying the message is a link to a press release that attempts to debunk critics’ claims.

Daughters of the American Revolution Denies Removing Jesus From Prayer, Book

A screen shot from the DAR Facebook page

To begin, the release addresses the allegation that the group is “taking out references to God,” noting that such a charge is untrue. The statement goes on to tout the more than 300 mentions that the Ritual and Missal book makes to a higher power.

“In fact, as currently written, the 113 page Ritual and Missal contains over 300 references to “Almighty God,” “Great God our King” (America hymn), “Our Heavenly Father,” “Heavenly Father,” “God of Hosts,” “God,” “Lord,” “Eternal God,” “Your Holy Spirit,” “Lord your God,” “Gracious Lord,” “Almighty and Everlasting God,” “Gracious Father,” and similar variations,” the press release notes.

DAR also addressed the claim that chaplains and other members of the group have been instructed not to pray in Jesus’ name, calling this, too, “an absolute falsehood.” Rather than disallowing invocations using Christ’s name, the group explained that chaplains and officers are invited to “create their own prayers into into which they may insert the name of Jesus Christ as deemed appropriate for the occasion and the audience.”

In April 2012, the organization had already addressed this subject, DAR noted. President General Merry Ann T. Wright wrote a blog post last year in an effort to clear up some of the controversy surrounding organizational policies on prayer. Rather than mandating that Christ be excluded, her announcement took a more inclusive approach, allowing for members of non-Christian faiths to adapt the book as they see fit. Her explanation read, in part:

The Executive Officers believe that the new Ritual and Missal can be used by members of any faith, substituting words as they wish, changing the prayers to suit the needs of the meeting in which they are being used. At our Executive meetings, knowing that we are all Christian, we pray in the Name of Jesus. When those are present whose faith is unknown, we pray in God’s name. However, we all recognize that when Christians pray in God’s name we are, indeed, praying in Christ’s name because the Christian faith believes in the Trinity of God – Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We also understand that our Jewish members know God as Jehovah or Yahweh, Muslim members use the name Allah for God and there are those whose spirituality may have a still different higher power or none at all.

We have in no way mandated that one must or must not use the name of Jesus Christ in the prayers. In our DAR rituals, prayers are included. Most of the prayers begin with “Our Father” or “Almighty God” and end “in Your Holy Name.” Christ’s prayer, known as The Lord’s Prayer, the prayer of St. Francis of Assisi, Easter and Passover prayers and prayers for other religious observances are included.

The press release concludes by addressing one final alleged falsehood — that Christ’s name has been entirely removed from the Ritual and Missal. DAR provides links to the current book and to past versions to show that this isn’t the case. The 2011 book — the one that is at the center of the current debate — mentions “Jesus” one time (in a section describing the Easter celebration). The word “Christ” is also mentioned numerous times in the Easter and Christmas sections.

Photo Credit: Daughters of the American Revolution

Here are two prayers from the 2011 Easter portion of the document that do, indeed, speak about the Christian savior:

Prayer IV:

O God, who by the joy of Easter has brought new hope to a disordered world; teach us Your children to understand the purpose of the life that You have given us. Help us to work for all that encourages peace and goodwill among men and grant that the spirit of the risen Christ may dwell in our hearts so that we may glorify Your Holy Name. Amen.

Prayer V:

O God, our Creator, we come before You in the consciousness of our mortality, recognizing the shortness of our life-span and our insignificance in Your boundless universe. Humbly we give thanks to You that You have set Your love upon us through Christ, our Savior, so that our sentence of death is changed into an offer of life and we have the hope of resurrection and of glory. Let this Holy Season be for us a time ofself-realization, deep humility and thankfulness for the sacrifice of Your blessed Son, by whom our salvation for everlasting life was made. Amen.

When compared to the 2008 book, which appears to be the last version before the 2011 changes were made, there are, indeed, some notable differences. The name “Jesus,” for instance, is mentioned 14 times in the 2008 edition, with most of the inclusions standing as a part of the conclusion to various prayers; “Christ,” too, has more mentions than in the 2011 book. While terms like, “in Christ Jesus’ name we pray” are included in the 2008 version, the 2011 Ritual and Missal is more generic (i.e. “in your holy name” and “amen”).

Regardless of some of the more all-encompassing changes, DAR is correct in stating that the document does not remove Christ entirely. And the above prayers do corroborate that notion, as they recognize God’s “blessed Son.” In the press release, the group explained that its amendments have been done in a way that allows the organization to honor the Founding Fathers’ “desire for freedom of religion.”

“In promoting the importance of freedom of religion upon which our country was founded, our Founding Fathers intended for all religions and not one specific faith to be allowed and respected,” the release reads. “It was in the spirit of our Founding Fathers desire for freedom of religion that the most recent changes to the Ritual and Missal were made.”

–

Related:

Patriotic Group Allegedly Removes Christ From Material and Tells Members to Stop Praying in Jesus’ Name

Benghazi, IRS, AP...What's next? Only TheBlaze TV offers the truth from Glenn Beck, Andrew Wilkow, and Real News from TheBlaze. Get instant access and a free trial here.

Back to The Blaze »

Comments (57)

flagbearer
Posted on January 5, 2013 at 10:23pm
NSDAR has always been inclusive of anyone who can prove her direct lineage. It has members of many different faiths and includes members in Overseas Units, mostly military families, but also members whose ancestors help Americans fight the British. There were many Jewish American patriots. George Washington honored one of them by having the Star of David placed on the dollar bill…look for it. Yes, there are Muslim members, and I have no problem with a Muslim Daughter spreading out a prayer and praying. I believe like Jefferson…”It does me no harm…” HOWEVER, I vehemently object to Christianity being leveled and purged from the Ritual and Missal because the Administration thinks it offends members of another faith. That is not tolerant, nor is it inclusive. The FOX report was true, and all anyone has to do is to compare the books. I’m thankful that members now know what has been going on behind their backs…if it can happen to Christians, it can happen to others…history repeating itself…just different folks, but the same thing. WAKE UP!!!

Report this comment
Log in to Reply Reply
piper60
Posted on January 5, 2013 at 5:19pm
If they are so quick to point out that they haven’t taken ALL mentions of Jesus out, it stands to reason that they Have taken Some mentions out. Check back in 5 years. I’d be willing to bet that more mentions will be deleted. In a few more years after that, all mentions will be taken out, but, because it was done gradually, the main stream media won’t notice. I doubt they noticed this time without a little prompting.

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- Brentley
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 8:46pm
  Have to agree with you PIPER. I will keep abreast of this as my cousin is a life long member of DAR. Sad the way our entire country has backed away from the mere mention of JESUS CHRIST unless it is used as profanity that it is OK? What a sad state of affairs. Imagine our forefathers, George Washington himself used JESUS CHRIST when praying. He would be appalled.
  
  Report this comment
rootytoottootin
Posted on January 5, 2013 at 11:12am
If, (such a big word) they had kept the original they would not have any problems. But that, is what happens, with EVERYTHING, that is changed, from the original,, to whatever, it ends up being now & future, & there will ALWAYS be problems. The stupidity of people that cannot leave well enough alone & those, that will not stand up to those who will not leave well enough alone, just make my blood boil sometimes. Such as our government.

Report this comment
Log in to Reply Reply
CloudWilliam
Posted on January 5, 2013 at 10:13am
I guess no Jews fought in the American Revolution so its OK to exclude them and their feelings. No wonder they vote with the dems. From what THEGREATCARNAC said above, Jews are all “third world” and not welcome on the DAR. I have been a conservative since the 60s, and the blatant IGNORANCE in the ranks nowadays disgusts me.

Report this comment
Log in to Reply Reply
YOURSENSEI
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 4:27pm
This is what you must know:

Haste is the father of mediocrity.

It is so.

Report this comment
Log in to Reply Reply
mcsledge
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 2:08pm
“In fact, as currently written, the 113 page Ritual and Missal contains over 300 references to “Almighty God,” “Great God our King” (America hymn), “Our Heavenly Father,” “Heavenly Father,” “God of Hosts,” “God,” “Lord,” “Eternal God,” “Your Holy Spirit,” “Lord your God,” “Gracious Lord,” “Almighty and Everlasting God,” “Gracious Father,” and similar variations,” the press release notes.

There is only one name under heaven by which man can be saved…Jesus Christ!

I know pastors who refer to God but rarely mention the name Christ. Sounds similar to this group.

So does removing Christ’s holy name imply more or less adoration? LESS!

You can generalize all the way to hell. It won’t do you any good. Those who return to the Father are proud to carry the name CHRIST and they don’t look for ways to minimize Him.

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- GMP
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 2:37pm
  WTF are you talking about? Are you saying I’m going to Hell if I say All Mighy God or Heavenly Father instead of Jesus Christ?
  
  I’m pretty sure that’s wrong on all levels..
  
  Report this comment
- piper60
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 9:07am
  The Continental Army had no problem with Christian imagery and references, and the congress certainly didn’t.
  
  Report this comment
- Ohello
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 2:18pm
  GMP: If you believe Christ is God, and Christ properly conveyed truth to His Apostle Peter and that Truth is accurately recorded in Acts 4:12, then there is only one Name by which you must be saved.
  
  “Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
  “And there is no salvation in any other man, for there is no other name under Heaven given to the children of men by which it is necessary to receive life.”
  
  If you do not recognize that Christ and God are one. (Christ Himself said so), then you need to be concerned for your salvation. God establishes His method for your salvation and that is clearly through Jesus Christ. When He returns as in the second coming, he may pickup a few stragglers,Christians, and Jews, who were and are currently not aware or understanding of His Gospel.
  
  Report this comment
spirited
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 1:54pm
Today, Alan Colmes said that there were “customerS” (plural; as in more than one) at the Denny’s resturant in Illinois who complained about the detectives and their guns.
>~~>He –too was corrected for saying false information.

The correction: ONE customer complained.

!8^O The deliberate mis-information, the lies and the deception MUST be called-out from now on.

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- cougarman
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 9:12am
  there are no lies here. The story is 100% true. In fact, if you read the posts on the National facebook page…some of the Daughters who met with National over a year ago have come forward. They were threatened with some stupid word …circulization…(sp) ..if they told anyone…..I do not know how many approached National when they first discovered this…but it was more than one.
  
  Report this comment
bemo234
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 1:34pm
This group like so many other Conservative and Christian groups, is in the process of being co-opted by the enemies of this country and of God himself (Liberals).

Liberals are like a scourge upon the earth, since they have no sense of morals or values they are easily led astray and seek to bring all those around them down their same retched path.

They are a parasitic invader that lives on the blood of the host while at the same time trying to turn the host into a parasite as well.

They are our zombie apocalypse!

Report this comment
Log in to Reply Reply
thegreatcarnac
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 12:19pm
The DAR needs to return to it’s old Christian roots and quit worrying whether some non-Christian, third world woman may get her feeling hurt because the name of Jesus was invoked. These women or not daughters-of-the-American Revolution anyway. They will never be.

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- CloudWilliam
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 10:14am
  So Jews are not welcome in the DAR?
  
  Report this comment
- Ohello
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 2:27pm
  Daughters are Daughters whether or not they are Jews. Only the individual Jew can make herself feel unwelcome within the true Christian community.
  
  Just remember how friendly the Jewish community was to one of it’s own, whom Christians now honor and strive to follow. The Jews did not know what they were doing then. It happens again today as seen by atheist, Islamic, and communist quest to establish the secular humanism religion as the State Religion of the USA and outlaw Christianity and Judaism.
  
  Report this comment
flagbearer
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 11:05am
Sometimes listening is poor and misinterpretation results. Let’s be honest and clear up some things. The NSDAR still has religious aspects within the organization. God has not been removed from its motto. For the purpose of inclusion, the addition of Hanukkah and Yom Kippur in the Ritual and Missal is a good addition. But, what has been removed does not support inclusion and is not good. And, what has been removed is the name of Jesus, spelled J-E-S-U-S, from ALL the prayers and poems within the Ritual and Missal. The name Jesus appears only ONE time, in a parenthetical statement explaining what Easter is. The name Jesus Christ is nowhere in it. The name Christ appears only three times, twice in Easter prayers and once in a Christmas prayer. Holy Child is also used in a Christmas prayer. That’s it, as opposed to around forty times in old versions. All prayer closings that ended in Jesus’ name have either been changed or deleted. Any reference to ANYTHING Christian elsewhere in the book has been deleted or changed. The middle portions of prayers have been changed to delete Christianity. The title of a poem has been changed, perhaps unethically, to remove the word Christmas. One prayer in particular that speaks beautifully of the fact that American liberty has its roots in Biblical truths and God’s Word has been deleted. No recognition is given to Christian sources, such as the Episcopal Book of Common Prayer. Where there are as many as five prayers for one

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- flagbearer
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 11:16am
  continued…for one celebration, none of them are lifted specifically in the name of Jesus. Christians know that when Jesus is removed, Christianity does not exist. Generic terms, such as Almighty, Lord, Holy name, Heavenly Father, Savior–these have all been used. They may have used a phrase from a hymn in a prayer, but that is not the same as having two patriotic hymns removed from a ritual. Many of these same generic terms are used in some religious groups to pray to Satan, so I guess that it can be said all religious beliefs are well-included by these generic terms. Most Christians don’t believe in praying all prayers generically like this. The phrase “women of faith” in a prayer was removed, which may be to appease atheists; but, it has never been explained why they would need it deleted in a prayer, as I didn’t think atheists pray. The question remains: why has the name of Jesus been purged from the Ritual and Missal to such an extent? Who is offended by His name, and why is that attitude of not being inclusive and tolerant of His name acceptable in the NSDAR? Are we really to believe that this Administration is more inclusive than all previous President Generals and Executive Committee members?
  
  Report this comment
- cougarman
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 12:13pm
  you are 100% correct Flagbearer! When this broke, I compared my old missal to my new Missal, and they have taken the names Jesus and Christ out 40…40 times. The Patriotic oaths and songs are gone! I know that the DAR is not a religious organization, but when it was founded, it was founded on the same principals that this country was founded on. Judeo-Christian principals. What a shame that one woman can bring down a stalwart of Patriotism by imposing her own liberal progressive ideals.
  
  Report this comment
strawberry411a
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 10:41am
The explanation by the president general is even more inflammatory than the initial report. DAR just lost thousands over political correctness. No matter how she spins it, the patriot ancestors have been dishonored and their fight means nothing now.

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- naughtycal
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 11:17am
  Can you say back pedal.
  The members of DAR need rally and remove those in charge of their group. Not just from their position but from DAR entirely… They can’t allow that cancer to eat away at them from the inside like America has done by allowing socialist and communist to propagate with it’s borders
  
  Report this comment
- cougarman
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 12:14pm
  They cannot deny what is in black and white. It is there for all to see.
  
  Report this comment
- cougarman
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 12:15pm
  They cannot deny what is on paper in black and white for all to see………now.
  
  Report this comment
sondoggie
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 10:29am
A prayer in any name other than Jesus, is just hollow meaningless words!

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- CloudWilliam
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 10:21am
  So I guess all the prayers of Glenn’s rabbi friends are hollow and meaningless… along with all the prayers of the prophets of the Old Testament before Jesus was even heard of. How sad… hard to believe a nominal Christian could be as ignorant as SONDOGGIE seems to be.
  
  Report this comment
- flagbearer
  Posted on January 5, 2013 at 2:06pm
  @ Cloudwilliam No, Cloud, you’ve missed the point with what these DAR ladies are trying to say. For Christians, prayers are to be lifted in the name of Jesus. This doesn’t mean ALL of them are said by ending in Jesus’ name, but most do, and it is the way the Bible tells Christians to pray. People of the Hebrew faith believe their prayers are to be given according to their faith. Daughters have always recognized that different faiths pray differently. It does me no injustice for a Muslim Daughter to spread out a prayer rug, a Hebrew Daughter to light a menorah, an atheist to choose not to pray, or a Christian Daughter to pray in Jesus’ Name. The point is that NSDAR is saying their actions are for the sake of inclusion, when in fact, they have EXCLUDED Christianity, with the exception of minimum prayers for Easter and Christmas. NSDAR founding ladies were deeply Christian, but also wanted it to be lineage based. However, they expected their Christian legacy, which is historically the roots of America, to be passed on to their posterity.
  
  Report this comment
wishley
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 10:15am
I am a member of DAR in our small Missouri town. Although I’m not thoroughly involved with all the upper-level responsibilities and such, I’m quite pleased with how the group is working together. There are strong democrats, republicans, Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, young and old in the group. I’ve been involved with promoting the constitution during Constitution Week, providing “thank you” gifts and programs for the veterans at local nursing homes, and sending gifts and cards to at risk students in DAR schools. The organization isn’t perfect, but we are working on what needs to happen in our local area and there has never been any mention of how to or to whom to pray.

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- gomizzou
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 10:35am
  I agree! I’m glad The Blaze posted the DAR reply. It’s too bad they posted the inflammatory article in the first place.
  
  Also, are you people not familiar with the Jewish religion? I know of Jewish DAR members.
  
  Report this comment
jungle J
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 9:58am
Christians need to worry about the widows and orphans more…quit talking and start acting…most negative posts by Christians are progressive operatives.

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- sizzlinsexybeckster
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 10:26am
  I agree with you Jungle J. They need to adjust their focus.
  
  Report this comment
SpankDaMonkey
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 9:55am
.
The DAR might need to review the resume of President General Merry Ann T. Wright, sounds like she is only qualified to be a conjugal visit girl at Super-Max Prison……..

Report this comment
Log in to Reply Reply
Albaby5
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 9:36am
The change that was suggested was that chaplains etc need not evoke the name of Christ, when it would be inappropriate. Sounds perfectly legit to me. Inapropriate might include when speaking to those whose religion does not include a reference to Christ. What’s wrong with that?

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- cougarman
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 12:18pm
  why can’t those (few) just bow their heads out of respect for where they are? That is what I do when I am a visitor in another country or meeting.
  
  Report this comment
- cougarman
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 4:59pm
  First, lets clear up something. There was no change SUGGESTED. It was done in secret and kept in secret hoping that nobody would notice. The Missal was fine since 1903. Prayers and poems and hymns have been added ever since….all of these are not gone! Along with the removal of the name of Jesus Christ….40 TIMES….nobody forced anybody to join the DAR. If you think it is fine for everyone to bow to the wishes of one…..then you should join the organization of that one.
  
  Report this comment
searching for the Truth
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:54am
I wouldn’t worry about it Billy . If they have removed the Savior’s Name once, they will have removed it a thousand times many more.

Report this comment
Log in to Reply Reply
Eastinfection
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:45am
Translation: Yesterday we were short on stories, so we made a bunch of crap up.

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- loriann12
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 9:02am
  Translation, DAR got caught and are back peddling.
  
  Report this comment
Locked
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:36am
Wow… shame on whoever started these lies, and shame on Billy Hallowell for not even bothering to fact-check his article yesterday before posting it.

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- cougarman
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 12:27pm
  do you really think that this story was printed, published, on air, without a whole LOT of fact checking. That would be totally foolish of any news agency….except MSNBC….they do it all the time…..
  
  Report this comment
- Locked
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 12:30pm
  “do you really think that this story was printed, published, on air, without a whole LOT of fact checking.”
  
  As the next day there’s an article that in effect says “Oops! Just kidding!”?
  
  Yes.
  
  Report this comment
ggr1868
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:33am
How can you be a Daughter of the American Revolution and be Muslim? DAR members converting to Islam? Hardly believe that. What then are you left with? IDIOT leadership. Parts of my family are members of the DAR and frankly, they are embarrassed by this.

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- woodyee
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:56am
  Time for DAR members to change their leadership. Organize and revolutionize.
  
  Report this comment
- loriann12
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 9:03am
  I have a direct line to Samuel Adams, through his daughter. I thought about joining DAR, but until the leadership changes, I think I’ll pass.
  
  Report this comment
- Jenny Lind
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 9:22am
  We have always been proud to be DAR in our family. It makes me nuts to see even then try to be politicaly correct, after all, just how many “anything else” were there? Sounds like trying to change our history again.
  
  Report this comment
- DarthMims
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 12:48pm
  But would you deny them the right to practice different religions? Does their lineage change with their religion? Remember, a lot of what the Revolution was fought for was to get away from the Anglican dictatorship that was England.
  
  Report this comment
cannon12pdr
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:26am
More PC crap

Report this comment
Log in to Reply Reply
SpankDaMonkey
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:26am
.
The Executive Officers believe that the new Ritual and Missal can be used by members of any faith,

Why would you change it for another faith? The men who fought the Revolutionary War were Christians. Have ya’ll started letting Muslims in?……..

Report this comment
Log in to Reply Reply
DadRocked
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:22am
BLAZE: Let’s place a simple phone to to verify from the source before posting an article.

Using the word ‘Alleged’ should be the red flag just as the; “According to a subset of DAR devotees,…” (from the original article) would be.

Thanks…

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- cougarman
  Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:58pm
  I do believe that ‘The Blaze’ has the facts in plain black and white ink……they would not be so stupid as to run a story without.
  
  Report this comment
- flagbearer
  Posted on January 6, 2013 at 2:05pm
  Before you claim a story is false, and go along with those saying so, check the facts. The truth will set you free…this is something this DAR Administration wanted to have slipped under the radar and set into place before anyone realized it. They are not worthy of the positions the Founding Ladies expected to be filled with ladies who would adhere to their original intentions. This trust has been violated! So, kill the Paul Reveres if you like, but we’re going down fighting!
  
  Report this comment
Sharon Rose
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:22am
More commie tactics?

Report this comment
Log in to Reply Reply
WildschweinJager
Posted on January 4, 2013 at 8:17am
DAR is guilty as charged with “washiing” their reference materials. No change was needed.

Report this comment
Log in to Reply Reply

It appears that you have Javascript Disabled. Please enable Javascript in your browser preferences for a better user experience on TheBlaze. You can not comment without Javascript enabled.