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Joe Biden: White House Has Identified 19 Executive Actions Obama Can Take on Guns

Jan. 14, 2013 8:06pm Jason Howerton

Biden Says White House Has Identified 19 Executive Actions Obama Can Take on Guns

WASHINGTON, DC – DECEMBER 19: U.S. President Barack Obama (R) announces the creation of an interagency task force for guns as Vice President Joseph Biden listens in the Brady Press Briefing Room at the White House on December 19, 2012 in Washington, DC. President Obama announced that he is making an administration-wide effort to solve gun violence and has tapped Vice President Joe Biden to lead an interagency task force in the wake of the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting in Newtown, Connecticut. Credit: Getty Images

Vice President Joe Biden on Monday told a group of sympathetic House Democrats that the White House has identified 19 executive actions President Barack Obama can take to unilaterally act on gun control, Politico reports.

Because the Obama administration understands that enacting sweeping gun control legislation through Congress would be difficult, it has placed an emphasis on the use of executive orders to get around Congress, the elected representatives of the American people, and strengthen gun regulations.

Among the executive actions Biden is believed to have recommended to Obama are tougher penalties for people who lie on background checks, elevating gun trafficking to a felony charge and ending limits that make it harder for the federal government to research gun violence. But remember, there are reportedly 19 of them that the White House will consider.

Credit: AP

The president’s proposals are also expected to include steps for improving school safety and mental health care, as well as recommendations for addressing violence in entertainment and video games. Pro-gun rights groups, including the NRA, have long insisted that insufficient mental health care and violent images are more to blame for mass shootings than the availability of guns.

According to Politico, Rep. Jackie Speier (D-Calif.) said she told Biden the White House should do as much as it can without Congress.

“I urged him to do as much by executive order as possible,” she said. “Frankly, I don’t have a lot of confidence that this Congress is going to do anything significant.”

Despite the opposition from groups like the National Rifle Association and gun owners across then nation, Obama said he would “vigorously pursue” measures to tighten gun laws.

“My starting point is not to worry about the politics,” he said.

Obama held an unscheduled press conference on Monday and declared his support for a ban on semi-automatic rifles, universal background checks and a ban on high-capacity magazines.

White House officials believe moving swiftly on gun proposals at a national level, before the shock over the Newtown shooting fades, gives Obama the best chance to get his proposals through Congress. Several pro-gun rights lawmakers, including Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin of West Virginia and Republican Rep. Jack Kingston of Georgia, said in the days following the shooting that they were open to discussing possible control measures.

However, the assault weapons ban, which Obama has long supported, is expected to face the toughest road on Capitol Hill. Congress passed a 10-year ban on the high-grade military-style weapons in 1994, but supporters didn’t have the votes to renew it once it expired in 2004.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) on Friday predicted that a ban might win Senate approval but he doubted it could pass in the Republican-led House.

The Associated Press contributed to this report

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Comments (212)

Joe_The_Patriot
Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:43pm
According to Politico, Rep. Jackie Speier (D-Calif.) said she told Biden the White House should do as much as it can without Congress.

“I urged him to do as much by executive order as possible,” she said. “Frankly, I don’t have a lot of confidence that this Congress is going to do anything significant.”

YOU PEOPLE IN THE GOV’T WORK FOR US !!!!

OBAMA IS NOT THE KING !!!!!!

THIS IS A REPUBLIC NOT A DICTATORSHIP!!!!!

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- michaelmoron
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:55pm
  Exactly. More specifcally, ALL public officers and employees are TRUSTEES of this TRUST called the GOVERNMENT.
  
  WE the PEOPLE are the GRANTORS and BENEFICIARIES of this Estate called the UNITED STATES.
  
  The BILL of RIGHTS and the CONSTITUTION are for the TRUSTEES.
  That is their “employee handbook” of rules and regulations that they are bound by.
  
  It tells them they are not to Infringe on the rights of the Benheficiaries.
  
  Under TRUST LAW.
  
  A GRANTOR can FIRE ANY TRUSTEE at ANY TIME and REWRITE the RULES of the TRUST.
  
  Under TRUST LAW. A TRUSTEE has NO DIRECT AUTHORITY over a Beneficiary unless….
  another beneficiary has a claim of damage against that person.
  
  That is why you could tell Curious George aka ODUMBO to go F#@k himself if he ordered you to dance, or move out of his way.
  
  HE HAS NO DIRECT AUTHORITY OVER YOU !!!!
  
  WE the PEOPLE are in CHARGE !!!!
  
  THAT is why Our Founding Fathers gave us the Power to dissolve this “Government”, if need be.
  
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  
  “Government is a trust, and the officers of the government are trustees. And both the trust and the trustees are created for the benefit of the people.”
  
  – Henry Clay
  
  Report this comment
- patriotsofworkingamerica
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 9:03pm
  Click clack… Click clack… Time to organize and march on D.C. We the People need to surround the Capital, again. This time at least 2 million strong. Guns and magazines should make the trip as well.
  Click clack… Click clack. That’s the sound of a well armed militia. It’s our right and our duty. God save the Republic.
  
  Report this comment
- Simple Skeptic
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 9:06pm
  It’s time to shut off the tax spigot to these idiots!
  
  Report this comment
- michaelmoron
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 9:11pm
  You People No longer have a Representative Republic.
  
  You have an International Bankster Cartel running a Corporation, disguised to look like a Independent Nation thats is run by it’s People.
  
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  
  “When the Federal Reserve Act was passed, the people of these United States did not perceive that a world banking system was being set up here. A super-state controlled by international bankers and international industrialists acting together to enslave the world for their own pleasure. Every effort has been made by the Fed (Reserve) to conceal its powers but the truth is — the Fed has usurped the government!”
  – Congressman Louis McFadden, Chairman of House Comm. on Banking and Currency from 1920 to 1931. Eventually Poisoned to death after a few unsuccessful attempts.
  
  Report this comment
- michaelmoron
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 9:18pm
  “Behind the ostensible (visible) government sits enthroned an INVISIBLE GOVERNMENT owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this INVISIBLE GOVERNMENT, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of today.”
  
  – Theodore Roosevelt
  
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  
  “This [Federal Reserve Act] establishes the most gigantic TRUST on earth. When the President Wilson signs this bill, the INVISIBLE GOVERNMENT of the monetary power will be LEGALIZED….the worst legislative crime of the ages is perpetrated by this banking and currency bill. From now on, depressions will be scientifically created.”
  
  – Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr., 1913
  
  Report this comment
- WarMunger_Al
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 9:19pm
  you know it is bad when even .22 LR is back ordered. I can’t get anything locally or on the net. This is ridiculous.
  
  Report this comment
- wzanesdad
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 9:21pm
  exactly….don’t give them an inch !!!
  
  Report this comment
- LaTxGuy
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 9:36pm
  trafficing to criminals? was it not the OBama administration the “fast and furious”? selling weapons to drug lords across the border without the Mexican governments knowledge! interesting one of those guns ended up killing a US border patrol. wow, this guy has arrogance!!
  
  Report this comment
- jhrusky
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 9:43pm
  While I don’t believe this should be done by executive order, I’d certainly like to see some common agreement from both sides on a few things mentioned:
  
  1. tougher penalties for people who lie on background checks, elevating gun trafficking to a felony charge
  
  Nothing wrong with that.
  
  2. end ending limits that make it harder for the federal government to research gun violence.
  
  Not sure about this one … what limits are there that make it hard to research gun violence? What am I missing?
  
  3. The president’s proposals are also expected to include steps for improving school safety and mental health care,
  
  This seems OK to me … perhaps armed (and trained) custodial staff, or retired police officers? And if you have a mental health issue, I’m sorry, but you don’t need a gun, period. If you have a history of violence, or wife-beating, you don’t need a gun. If you are on anti-depressants, you don’t need a gun. All seems reasonable to me.
  
  4. as well as recommendations for addressing violence in entertainment and video games.
  
  This one is a bit harder for me to accept — I think violent games that are so realistic is crazy, but that’s a personal choice I have made. I’m not sure we want to ban them, although I have no problem with setting an age limit on them. The problem with that is, how do you fix stupid parents?
  
  Report this comment
- Keatonc33
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 9:51pm
  joe.. “we the people” support gun control in every fashion. have you not seen the polls?
- ENCIINOM
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 9:52pm
  You gun nuts are a joke. In 92 there were 200 million guns in America. 20 yers later there are 300 million. More guns equals more crimes
- Keatonc33
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 9:54pm
  JHRUSKY.. I am a liberal, add a license for all gun owners, and to get the license you must take a mental health check and a gun safety course. and close the gun show loophole and we will be in complete agreement!
- Techcon
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 10:00pm
  How about abolishing “Gun Free Zones” passed in ’95?
  
  Think of the carnage that idiocy has caused.
  
  Ever think of that, Biden, hmm?
  
  Of course NOT!
  
  Like DDT and CAFE, liberalism = death!
  
  Report this comment
- Walkabout
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 10:05pm
  JHRUSKY
  2. end ending limits that make it harder for the federal government to research gun violence.
  
  I don’t have a problem with it from as innocuous as it sounds at 1st first glance. It confused me. What I think this means is that they did not want to government to fund research. It was probably found that most of the funded research was partisan & used to drive the news cycle.
  
  It is probably like research on Climate Change. It is partisan. That person who got a D in science in college, Al Gore, funded people hew liked & defunded everybody else.
  
  The threat of partisan research is serious. We would like to think we would never do anything as a society like taking calipers to measure a cranium, but I am not so sure.
  
  Report this comment
- jhrusky
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 10:06pm
  @ keatonc33
  
  “I am a liberal, add a license for all gun owners, and to get the license you must take a mental health check and a gun safety course. and close the gun show loophole and we will be in complete agreement!”
  
  A license would be a bad thing — if the government has to give you a license, then it’s not a right any longer. Additionally, a license means a national database. That is the 1st step to a very bad place.
  There’s already checks in place — if you’re a felon you cannot buy a gun. So, additionally, if you have a mental health problem, you should not be able to buy a gun, and if you have a history of violence, no gun. Those checks should be easily available. But, registration needs to stay with the local retailer where the gun was purchased and not in the files of the AFT to create a national database.
  
  As to the gun show loophole, I’m a bit torn on this one — I want to be able to buy a used gun if I wish to, but at the same time, I understand that we don’t want crazed lunatics nor felons buying guns without checks. Not sure how to handle that one.
  
  Report this comment
- Grey Eagle
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 10:10pm
  Treading on the second amendment and the Constitution plus the 10th amendment, which is states rights, is when the shite hits the fan.
  
  Report this comment
- Joe_The_Patriot
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 10:13pm
  @keaton
  Have you NOT seen the blaze poll ????? Do you not look at any facts or figures besides the manufactured ones puked up by the liberals on msnbc and cnn??
  
  Report this comment
- Joe_The_Patriot
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 10:20pm
  @enciinom
  You are the JOKE…. Crimes are on the decline.. Check the facts…and not the ones that your liberal **** buddies blow out of their useless holes…. There are less guns per capita now than 50 years ago…
  Chicago has the strictest gun laws in the country and yet it has by far the highest murder rate in the country… soooooooo how did the gun laws stop people from being murdered???
  
  Report this comment
- Grey Eagle
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 10:22pm
  Obama and the Democrats are handing the Republicans control of the Senate in 2014. They will over-reach with the gun laws just like they always do. Now if Republicans , you hear me Boehner? will stick to their guns and play hardball, we might get things under control.
  
  Report this comment
- jhrusky
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 10:25pm
  @ enciinom
  
  “You gun nuts are a joke. In 92 there were 200 million guns in America. 20 yers later there are 300 million. More guns equals more crimes”
  
  Wrong.
  1992 Murders with guns: 13200
  2010 Murders with guns: 11078
  1992 Aggravated Assault with guns: 566800
  2010 Aggravated Assault with guns: 138336
  
  Looks like more guns means LESS gun crime, Enciimon. You should so some research before you post stupid sh1t!
  
  Report this comment
- michaelmoron
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 10:31pm
  Once you study Law, You realize that the United States is a Corporation.
  
  It is one of the lawyer’s secrets. That is why over 75% of Politicians are Lawyers.
  
  Another one of their closest guarded secrets is that LAW and OUR Government is based on TRUST LAW, because it is a trust.
  
  Your Name on your BC, DL, DEEDS, TITLES, ETC. is a Corporation. A legal Fiction.
  
  YOU are the ADMISTRATOR of your Corp., NOT the JUDGE or ANY PUBLIC SERVANT aka TRUSTEE (including the president).
  
  Under Presumption of Law, you are considered the trustee, unless you CLAIM YOUR RIGHTS aka reservation of rights. You put put the TRUSTEE and COURT on NOTICE that you are the EXECUTOR of that legal Fiction and you are appointing them TRUSTEE.
  You can then ORDER them to absolve the charges unless…. they have a cause of action which is a Plaintiff or Claimant that has sustained injuries to their person or property, and/or there is a breach of Contract.
  
  In addition to being Grantor/Executor/Beneficiary of your legal fiction, you are a beneficiary to the UNITED STATES (Estate)
  
  Think I am Talking $#iT ? Here check this for starters.
  (Learn the Game before you attempt this in court.)
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzjv20sC5CY
  
  Report this comment
- michaelmoron
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 10:34pm
  @ENCILOON
  
  In the 20th Century, 290 MILLION PEOPLE WERE SLAUGHTERED BY GOVERNMENT.
  
  Most of those were Governments killing their OWN PEOPLE AFTER SEIZING THEIR GUNS !!!!!!
  
  It is called DEMOCIDE – DEATH BY GOVERNMENT.
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgCemznb6Lc
  
  Report this comment
- ENCIINOM
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 10:35pm
  Joe
  
  Chicago has the highest murder rate? Where did you get a crazy idea like that. Next time befor you open your mouth, try opening a book! Or try selling your phoney statistics to elementary school aged people.
  
  Report this comment
- michaelmoron
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 10:46pm
  *correction
  
  A majority of of the democide occured in the 20th century.
  
  Report this comment
- CloudNine
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 10:48pm
  @ Encinom –
  Enema (aka Encinom) is offering “it’s” wisdom on the topic for today! I am always amazed at how your comments reflect such little intellectual capacity. Is it hard to breathe with your head up your “arse”? For those of you unfamiliar with this quack, ignore “it”. There’s never a relevant thought, comment or statement from Encinom’s input! Hey “Enema”, you still have that Rod Serling “Fathead” on your wall?
  
  Report this comment
- ENCIINOM
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 10:59pm
  Cloud nine
  
  Great post. You supplied us with handfuls of relevant pertanant. I could find no snide childish kindergarten remarks. Give up. Your outmatched. You loose.
  
  Report this comment
- Elena2010
  Posted on January 15, 2013 at 12:55am
  @ENCIINOM — only 4 percent of gun crimes are committed by lawfully possessed guns.
  
  Taking guns fm law abiding citizens will NOT reduce gun crime by any significant measure since 96 percent of gun crime is by UNlawfully possessed firearms.
  
  Furthermore, taking away guns will do NOTHING to cure the evil lurking the the hearts of evil men who commit these crimes of opportunity and shock.
  
  Report this comment
- Cavallo
  Posted on January 15, 2013 at 1:12am
  I don’t see much in the way of any discussion on what the limits of executive orders are? Don’t you think in an article about executive orders the constitutional limits of executive orders should be touched on? No? Executive orders cannot create what would be new laws.
  
  Report this comment
- Sensible_Centrist_Democrat
  Posted on January 15, 2013 at 1:14am
  @michaelmoron
  A) Stop quoting Louis McFadden. The guy is a raging anti-Semite who believed an international cabal of Jewish bankers planned to take over the world.
  B) stop telling people to “learn the law” when you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Your whole “sovereign citizen” speal has no basis in law, fact and/or logic. You have no conception on American constitutional law, or law in general.
  
  Report this comment
- Trigus
  Posted on January 15, 2013 at 1:53am
  The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) 809[890].ART.90 (20), makes it clear that military personnel need to obey the “lawful command of his superior officer,” 891.ART.91 (2), the “lawful order of a warrant officer”, 892.ART.92 (1) the “lawful general order”, 892.ART.92 (2) “lawful order”. In each case, military personnel have an obligation and a duty to only obey Lawful orders and indeed have an obligation to disobey Unlawful orders, including orders by the president that do not comply with the UCMJ. The moral and legal obligation is to the U.S. Constitution and not to those who would issue unlawful orders, especially if those orders are in direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ.
  
  Report this comment
- tonypro
  Posted on January 15, 2013 at 2:30am
  “it has placed an emphasis on the use of executive orders to get around Congress,”
  
  (Translated)
  We are doing our very best to start a civil war that will allow us to have an excuse to come down full bore on the American citizens.
  
  …..they need to be careful what they wish for because the true Constitution believing Patriots that will keep, and bear arms might surprise them. Only the weak sell outs will become their slaves.
  
  Remember–any law that is unconstitutional is not a law.
  
  Report this comment
- UnwantedFoe
  Posted on January 15, 2013 at 3:34am
  Enciinom-
  
  FBI statistics of murders from 2007 to 2011
  All murders in 2007 were 14,916
  All murders in 2011 were 12,664
  That is a 15.1% decrease in murder
  Gun murders in 2007 were 10,129
  Gun murders in 2011 were 8,583
  That is a 15.3% decrease in gun murders.
  
  http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8#disablemobile
  
  Now to ALL crime as you were claiming.
  
  The link below shows all crime from 1992 to 2011
  Some highlights, Violent crime from 1992 to 2011 is down 371.4 per 100,000 people, thats almost HALF
  Robbery is down 150 per 100,000 people, that is OVER half
  Burglary is down 466.2 per 100,000 people
  
  Essentially, crime has gone DOWN tremendously… Your argument is entirely invalid.
  
  http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-1
  
  Report this comment
- oneshiner
  Posted on January 15, 2013 at 10:50am
  “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil
  interference they deserve a place of honor with all that is good.” -George Washington
  
  “The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed.” -Alexander Hamilton
  
  The Constitution shall never be construed….to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. -Samuel Adams
  
  Even Russia is warning our country to not give up arms like they did once upon a time. They know!
  
  Report this comment
- dublinthewagons
  Posted on January 15, 2013 at 12:18pm
  Progressive Washington polititions Ned more armed security.
  Just outside their cell doors. LOL
  
  Report this comment
- Joe_The_Patriot
  Posted on January 15, 2013 at 12:22pm
  Once again ENCIINOM refuses to answer the question with more lie…
  
  HOW HAVE THE STRICKEST GUN LAWS IN THE COUNTRY PREVENTED MURDERS IN CHICAGO??? Answer: They don’t… CRIMINALS DON’T OBEY THE LAW!!! IDIOT!
  
  Report this comment
- Joe_The_Patriot
  Posted on January 15, 2013 at 1:21pm
  here are the 15 cities in the United States that reported the most murders and non-negligent homicides in 2011: according to the FBI uniform crime report
  1.New York — 515
  2.Chicago — 431
  3.Detroit — 344
  4.Philadelphia — 324
  5.Los Angeles — 297
  6.New Orleans — 200
  7.Houston — 198
  8.Baltimore — 196
  9.Dallas — 133
  10.Memphis — 117
  11.Phoenix — 116
  12.St. Louis — 113
  13.Washington D.C. — 108
  14.Kansas City, Mo. — 108
  15.Oakland, Calif. — 104
  
  I’m pretty sure once the 2012 numbers come in chicago will top the list
  
  Report this comment
- Trigus
  Posted on January 15, 2013 at 2:33pm
  @ Joe – 552 for Chicago for 2012.
  
  Report this comment
- Joe_The_Patriot
  Posted on January 15, 2013 at 3:33pm
  @TRIGUS
  Thanx for the FACTS…
  
  Just goes to show how liberals don’t let pesky things like FACTS get in the way of their agenda….
  
  Present them with facts and they just lie and tell you that your wrong… They can’t answer any logical question and instead retort by puking up the liberal talking points they’re fed in the MSM and in school..
  
  Report this comment
- michaelmoron
  Posted on January 15, 2013 at 6:10pm
  Sensible_Centrist_Democrat
  You have to be be the most ignorant troll ever witnessed on the blaze
  A) I won’t stop quoting Louis McFadden. I could care less what you think about him. He was telling the truth, and was SPOT ON.
  B) I Understand law better than your hired legal counsel.
  C) From time to time on the BLAZE I will teach you about law. Then you will no longer be clueless.
  
  Report this comment
- michaelmoron
  Posted on January 16, 2013 at 1:09am
  @JOE and TRIGUS
  
  Awesome expose’
  
  These are THE LARGEST gun free zones.
  
  The Largest cities in America are now “Sitting Duck Zones” created by the progressives.
  
  A criminal with a gun has to LOVE the FACT that they will meet almost no resistance from Law-Abiding Victims.
  
  These progressives should be held accountable for their crimes.
  
  They are responsible for the injuries sustained and the DEATHS caused by these “Sitting Duck Zones”.
  
  I can’t wait….
  
  Report this comment
- ZZTOP
  Posted on January 16, 2013 at 2:08pm
  Marching on Washington will do nothing they dont care about you marching, Call your Sen, Congress they need to be defunded for every ILLEGAL order MADE….
  
  Report this comment
Magyar
Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:43pm
I wil NOT COMPLY!

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- michaelmoron
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 9:02pm
  I WILL COMPLY to the CONSTITUTION and BILL of RIGHTS.
  
  I will state on the Record, I promise never to violate the rights of another Person.
  
  Otherwise, it is fair game.
  
  BTW. I will VIOLATE the PERSONS responsible for VIOLATING ME.
  
  Report this comment
- RLTW
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 9:16pm
  I truly feel sorry for the LEO’s ordered to conduct a confiscation, as much as I’d prefer to live in peace I was trained for 24 yrs in war, it is not what I want but I will not give up my arms my rights willingly.
  
  Report this comment
- Dismayed Veteran
  Posted on January 15, 2013 at 10:18am
  The LEO’s in my neighborhood are going to the high crime areas not our neighborhood. I got this from several LEO’s.
  
  Report this comment
joedog73
Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:35pm
He said if it only saves one childs life then action should be taken. What about the 1 .1 million babies killed each year by abortions. I guess using his logic then he is going to pass an executive order abolishing abortion. Yeah right.

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- michaelmoron
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:42pm
  More innocent children were killed by our “Government” in WACO.
  
  21 Children Slaughtered by the International Bankster Cartel.
  
  Report this comment
- michaelmoron
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 9:13pm
  *Killed in WACO than Sandy Hook.
  
  Report this comment
- jhrusky
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 9:51pm
  @ michaelmoron
  
  “More innocent children were killed by our “Government” in WACO.”
  
  While the government certainly started the standoff there, it’s a bit of a stretch to say the government killed those children when, in fact, it was pretty obvious that someone inside the compound started that fire. Or, did you buy into that crazy flame-throwing tank theory?
  
  Report this comment
- Keatonc33
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 9:57pm
  if were going to start calling organisms barely bigger than a single cell with no brain activity or any chance of survival outside the womb a baby then valid point. I can only derive from your comment that you are an avidly against hunting yes? being as animals are organisms with brain activity that can live outside of the womb.
  
  Report this comment
- michaelmoron
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 10:08pm
  @JHRUSKY
  
  They are responsible for the Events that day. Also, I see that you are willing to comply with the Invisible Government a.k.a. the U.S. Corp.
  
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  
  “I am afraid that the ordinary citizen will not like to be told that the banks can and do CREATE money, and they who control the credit of the nation direct the policies of governments and hold in their hands the destiny of the people.”
  
  - Reginald McKenna (1863-1943), President of the Midlands Bank of England, UK Chancellor 1915-16, January 1924
  
  ~~~~~~~~~~~
  
  “The Federal Reserve is one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever seen. There is not a man within the sound of my voice who does not know that this Nation is run by the international bankers.”
  
  - Congressman Louis T. McFadden, Chairman of the House Banking and Currency Committee
  
  President Kennedy was very aware of all the above and the power and influence of the bankers in Washington D.C. He was also very aware from President Eisenhower (who also tried to warn the American public in his final address to the nation on January 17, 1961) about the tremendous growth in the power and influence of the military-industrial complex after World War II, and the tremendous danger it posed.
  
  Keep playing ball with the Bankster Cartel JHRusky.
  
  I WILL NOT COMPLY !!!!!
  
  Report this comment
- Joe_The_Patriot
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 10:28pm
  @keaton
  how in the hell can u equate hunting an animal and eating it to an abortion?? Are you REALLY THAT STUPID??? Or have you just completely run out of any argument to support your position and just want to type something even itmakes no sense what so ever
  
  Report this comment
- jhrusky
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 10:41pm
  @ michaelmoron
  
  “They are responsible for the Events that day.”
  
  They are responsible for beginning the standoff. It was a lose-lose situation for Koresh and his followers. They were idiots to not surrender and then fight the system. The government didn’t set the fire, thus they are not responsible for those deaths.
  Certainly the government can and does act on bad information, but if/when that happens, killing those on your side makes no sense.
  
  “Also, I see that you are willing to comply with the Invisible Government a.k.a. the U.S. Corp.”
  
  I am willing to follow laws and remain free from the striped sunshine. I believe I am more beneficial to getting things change while free from incarceration. I do not like what is happening and how the mega-banksters seem to be running the world, but don’t believe I can be very effective while behind bars.
  
  Report this comment
- michaelmoron
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 11:01pm
  @JHRusky
  
  Had the “Agents” not stormed the “Compound” (I will call it The Branch Dividian’s Land -
  I will call them the ‘FREE MEN ON THE FREE LAND’) I am relatively sure there would have been no fire, and therefore the subsequent deaths of 21 innocent children.
  The VIOLATORS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEATHS !!!!!!
  
  DO HAVE EVIDENCE THAT an AGENT didn’t start the fire somehow?
  
  That a shot from the violators (ATF/Bankster agent )started the fire?
  
  That an Intruder (ATF/Bankster agent) didn’t sneak in a window that YOU DIDN’T SEE (wow, imagine that) and start it?
  
  That a shot from something an innocuous as a tear gas canister, caused the fire?
  
  ANY PROOF ?
  
  Report this comment
- jhrusky
  Posted on January 15, 2013 at 12:21am
  @ michaelmoron
  
  “Had the “Agents” not stormed the “Compound” (I will call it The Branch Dividian’s Land – I will call them the ‘FREE MEN ON THE FREE LAND’) I am relatively sure there would have been no fire, and therefore the subsequent deaths of 21 innocent children.”
  
  Possible. But in that respect, you can also state that had Koresh surrendered and then fought within the legal system, I am quite sure there would have been no fire, and therefore the subsequent deaths of 21 innocent children.
  
  “The VIOLATORS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEATHS !!!!!!”
  
  Or the person(s) who lit the match.
  
  “DO HAVE EVIDENCE THAT an AGENT didn’t start the fire somehow? That a shot from the violators (ATF/Bankster agent )started the fire? That an Intruder (ATF/Bankster agent) didn’t sneak in a window that YOU DIDN’T SEE (wow, imagine that) and start it? That a shot from something an innocuous as a tear gas canister, caused the fire? ANY PROOF ?”
  
  I believe you know one cannot prove someone didn’t do something in this case. I don’t have proof that an agent snuck in and started the fire anymore than I have proof that ET landed, put on a human mask, and then snuck in and started the fire. We know accelerant was used so it would burn faster. Logic says it was an ‘inside job’. I’m unsure the gov’t was correct in showing up in the 1st place, but as I said, fight within the system. The videos on this proved only that stupid, untrue accusations were flying around
  
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jessieH
Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:33pm
There are about 200 million people that believe that our Rights are ours to keep. That is the meaning of “shall not infringe”. If the government wants to waste more time & money, their favorite hobbies, then so be it. A crossbow is just as deadly as any gun and arrows grow on trees. A crossbow is a silent killer. Now, how many people could one psyco kill with a weapon like that? No, we’ll keep our Rights. I think they know where to put the change.

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- michaelmoron
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:39pm
  A Bow and Arrow will be my weapon of choice when the $#it hits the fan. Silent, Deadly and SPOOKY for the victim.
  
  Of Course that is only one of a few REMEDIES I will have at my disposal. lol.
  
  Report this comment
- Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:43pm
  My weapon of choice will be, the bottled fart. When lit, becomes an explosive. When concentrated becomes a decapacitating agent, and when liquified, just becomes nasty.
  
  Report this comment
- 1TrueOne55
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:44pm
  With a good wood lathe and 2×4 from Home Depot or other wood products supplier you can make non detectable bolts for your crossbow.
  
  Or maybe even create some sort of projectile that can be fired by blanks etc…
  
  Report this comment
- Joe_The_Patriot
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 9:55pm
  They’re rectums……
  
  Report this comment
michaelmoron
Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:32pm
I have had enough !!!!

Just Talking About Gun Control is an INFRINGEMENT.

IMPEACH BIDEN, OBAMA, and FEINSTEIN, NOW !!!!!!

They took Oaths to Uphold the Constitution, NOT to tinker with it and RIP IT DOWN !!!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Also, ANY GLOBALISTS must be removed from Political Office, IMMEDIATELY !!!!!!

Either you Represent the PEOPLE of the UNITED STATES and acknowledge our SOVEREIGNTY or you LEAVE OFFICE NOW !!!!!

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- John 1776
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:37pm
  Interesting point. They WERE elected to represent us, not the UN. Sounds like some line got crossed.
  
  Report this comment
- michaelmoron
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:45pm
  Start the GLOBALISTS got to GO campaign !
  
  Report this comment
- Joe_The_Patriot
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 9:03pm
  There have been so many things to impeach Obama and the administration over and yet NOTHING gets done….. They all feel they are above the law, on both sides… we are the little people and they will do whatever they want…. Every single time obama gets up he’s gonna say he won the election SO that means people agree with him and he’s going to do “the people’s work”…. meanwhile the republicans have their heads up there rectums so deep they can watch their expensive dinners digest and turn into the crap they try to feed us….
  
  IF WE LOOSE OUR GUNS WE LOOSE OUR COUNTRY
  
  Report this comment
jbcheesehead
Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:32pm
Executive Orders:
1. Be sure Nancy Pelosi does not own any weapons
2. Be sure Harry Reid does not own any weapons
3. Be sure Joe Biden does not own any weapons
4. Be sure that any friends of acquaintances of Obama do not own any weapons (lest their children break into the gun cabinet and heavily embarrass the parents)
5. Do the first 4 and the rest of us will be automatically safer from those who lie about our rights but do the same thing themselves!

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- TH777
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 9:22pm
  You forgot to mention that their bodyguards need to be disarmed also!!
  
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ANTISOCIAL-IST
Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:30pm
if executive actions numbered 1 through 19 do not say “please refer to the Constitution of the United States, then it’s all illegal. want to amend the Constitution, give it a whirl; otherwise, pound salt wannabe dictators.

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neverending
Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:29pm
Doubt seriously he only identified them – so not if but when and when is probably just around the corner.

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John 1776
Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:29pm
I’ll match his 19 with 19 reasons Obama should not be able to serve as POTUS.
How about a “Citizens Order?” – Step down trader.

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- kickagrandma
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:36pm
  How about a Citizen’s Arrest?
  
  Report this comment
- DadRocked
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:37pm
  “Step down trader.”
  Trader would be correct with my dry sense of humor…
  Did you mean traitor?
  
  Report this comment
- YOURSENSEI
  Posted on January 15, 2013 at 10:18am
  This is what you must know:
  
  Conservatives don’t know what they mean . . . or how to spell.
  
  It is so.
  
  Report this comment
BlackCrow
Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:25pm
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) on Friday predicted that a ban might win Senate approval but he doubted it could pass in the Republican-led House.

________________________________________________________________________________

How about passing a budget? They will have to get rid of the filibuster and then face the wrath of the voters in red states.

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barber2
Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:25pm
So the token old, white, Catholic Democrat ” has told a group of sympathetic House Democrats that the WHITE HOUSE has identified 19 executive actions ( what is an ” executive action ?” ) President Barack Obama can take to unilaterally act on gun control.” Now isn’t that just peachy that our Chicago radicals ( you, go, Valerie ! ) are checking their legal p’s and q’s !? So Alinskyesgue ! Using the system to ” fundamentally change ” the system ! Apparently, the Chicago Democrats are not just satisfied with destroying our economy . They also are trying to start civil disorder by inflaming the American people over this very basic Constitutional issue. Just another BIG change. Like gay marriage ! Our Chicago radicals are itching for a fight. Or are they Itching for a reason to declare Martial Law ?

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- Joe_The_Patriot
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:46pm
  You are 100% CORRECT
  
  Report this comment
- YOURSENSEI
  Posted on January 15, 2013 at 10:23am
  Mr or Ms BARBER2,
  
  This is what you must know:
  
  These ginned up fantasies of repression are not new to conservatives. Why just six months ago you were all absolutely convinced Obama would not allow the election in November. Mindless. Paranoid. Bored. The ramblings of idle minds. Medicate – for your own good, the safety of your family and the future of the world.
  
  It is so.
  
  Report this comment
kenr1963
Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:24pm
we are at war now if we lose this kiss the rest of the Bill of Rights Goodby.

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- michaelmoron
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:36pm
  Thats’ exactly why we can’t allow them to do this.
  
  Freedom of Speech, The right to Privacy, The right to own Property and the Right to a fair trial will be next !!!!!!
  
  WAKE UP, PEOPLE !!!!!!
  
  Report this comment
- barber2
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:47pm
  MIKE: Many of us are quite awake !
  
  Report this comment
- MIBUGNU2
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:57pm
  And this TUR* studied and taught Constitutional Law…WTF ??
  This BOZO has nothing but contempt for the American People..
  
  Report this comment
IronSights
Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:24pm
Joe Biden lacks the ability to identify a tactful response when in conversation out in public. I find it hard to believe he has the intelligence to “identify 19 executive actions” for King Bo. NOW someone may have given him a list of unconstitutional options available that the GOP will let slide so they can use them in the future. That I would believe, since the whole lot of them are lazy, crooked, and are only focused on self preservation.

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- barber2
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:30pm
  Joe Biden is the token old, white, Catholic, traditional Democrat…rather like a “beard ” for the Chicago radical, Obama’s agenda of Marxism…. ( TIMEBOMB may fill us in on the details ! )
  
  Report this comment
- DRT_7.62_BTHP
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:39pm
  The 19 were written back in December. They just waned to make it look like they actually put some thought into it.
  
  Report this comment
- barber2
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:42pm
  IRON: Do you think that Uncle Joe has any idea of the ” Big F—-Deal” that Obama has ensnared him in ?! Hey, Joe, watch out for that bus !
  
  Report this comment
- ANTISOCIAL-IST
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:42pm
  i doubt he can identify 19 letters of the alphabet. we tend to think the arrogant in chief is not the brightest bulb; but you have to admit he was genius when he chose his running mate.
  i don’t know if everyone’s seen the video of the tx trooper (?) doing a cavity search on the side of the road; but if crazy joe was a pol, he wouldn’t definitely be fit for traffic-stop cavity searches, from back to front – gross!
  
  Report this comment
- barber2
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:45pm
  DRT: I sure this is all part of the Center For American PROGRESS ( wink , wink ) Agenda that was part of the Obama package ! Just like the Affordable HealthCare Act. Signed , sealed and delivered by the Soros-funded radicals. This entire American capitalism take-over was well planned , co-ordinated, and ” organized !” These radicals have been working on this since the 60s. Just ask Bill Ayers .
  
  Report this comment
- ANTISOCIAL-IST
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:48pm
  was a pol = weren’t a politician
  
  Report this comment
- ANTISOCIAL-IST
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:53pm
  he would definitely.
  DUH.
  
  Report this comment
Fubared
Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:22pm
Uncle Joe looks like he is trying to remember where he left his tumbler of scotch in the pic.

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FloridaFarmGirl
Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:22pm
We are all locked and loaded. Come on down to the Sunshine State and try to take our guns! We’ll see y’all soon!! The South will rise again!!!

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- Magyar
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:40pm
  I’ll be standing next to you!
  
  Report this comment
- progressiveslayer
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:47pm
  Locked,cocked ready to rock.
  
  Report this comment
- scott4freedom
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:53pm
  Were with ya Florida farm girl here in the great state of Ohio… Will give back our guns 1 bullet at a time . Don’t f@*k with The 2nd amemdment of any legal gun holder of these United States.
  
  Report this comment
- Max Power 1
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:59pm
  I agree with your sentiments, but that’s not what they’re going to do. At least not that way. What they’ll do is impose a huge tax on all firearms, if you don’t pay, they’ll take your paycheck, or lien your house. Those scary black guns will be reclassified as class 3, same as machine guns. Ammo & components will be taxed up to the moon. The EPA will declare lead bullets a hazardous material, which they’ll outlaw. See, they’ll use tactics that will be behind the scenes. There won’t be a singular event that would ignite the public. They won’t kick down any doors. We’ll all be waiting behind locked doors with our guns loaded, waiting for a battle that isn’t coming. They will use things that are hard to impossible for the average guy to fight against. All the while they will be deamonizing gun owners as domestic terrorists, & using DHA thugs to take down resisters in highly publicized “Ruby Ridge” type actions against carefully selected unsympathetic targets. The enemy is evil yes, but they are smart too.
  
  Report this comment
- booger71
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 10:08pm
  I agree with your sentiments, but that’s not what they’re going to do. At least not that way. What they’ll do is impose a huge tax on all firearms,
  ============
  A “huge” tax without Congress passing it first, is also unconstitutional. I personally think, through Obamacare, he will have Dept of Health scouring medical records, looking for anyone who has taken any psychotropic drugs, or mentioned the word “depression” to your doctor. It is all online now thanks to Obamacare. I think you are right about the EPA banning lead in federal hunting lands.
  
  Report this comment
SorellaTorta
Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:21pm
Great, let’s start fitting Eric Holder for orange jumpsuit since Biden did suggest harsher prison sentencing for gun traffickers!

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- DRT_7.62_BTHP
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:45pm
  Yeah. Years in prison for him. For the all those deaths.
  
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dmerwin
Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:21pm
If you were to actually submit the first three items to congress you could probably pass them, therefore I suspect there are some more controversial items in the remaining 16 items. Just guessing. I am for mandatory minimums for crimes committed with guns, Joe and assclown are you with me?

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PIGSWILLNEVERFLY
Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:21pm
NOT HAPPENING! This will not be. How much more? my head is going to explode.

http://www.gulagbound.com/36890/battered-america-syndrome/

This is what is going on? We are being Battered and he is getting away with it. WHERE IS OUR CONGRESS??????

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- progressiveslayer
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:31pm
  Congress is full of candy@sses and they’d better jerk the chain on that tyrant and fast.
  
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- neverending
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:31pm
  They too have forgotten WE THE PEOPLE!
  
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- Stelex
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:51pm
  Bottom line is we are not represented in DC, The fed and the Un are in fact calling the plays. We are out of options, now comes the gun grab. Walmart stopped ordering ammo for Christ sakes, I heard that “Cheaper than Dirt” stopped selling “assault weapons” Wake up folks even Charlie Daniels is telling us they are coming for the guns. They will do it in a many fold progression
  
  Report this comment
kfogs1957
Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:21pm
I’m confused. Is this a dictatorship? Maybe I slept through something.

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The Third Archon
Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:20pm
“Because the Obama administration understands that enacting sweeping gun control legislation through Congress would be difficult, it has placed an emphasis on the use of executive orders to get around the elected representatives of the American people and strengthen gun regulations.”
Ah yes, because the PRESIDENT of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA definitely isn’t an “elected representative of the American People…” LOL–no, tell us what you REALLY think Blaze.

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- RJJinGadsden
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:35pm
  Yeah, sit quietly and take it should a Republican administration use Executive Order to outlaw abortion. After all now that privacy is no longer an issue considering what that newspaper did.
  
  Report this comment
- Stelex
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:40pm
  You are truly a piece of work, obviously someone of very limited intellect. Its a good thing we are headed for socialism for you, you’ll always have someone to wipe your a$s. On the tax payer dime of course. And if your lucky they will take care or that scabies rash that just irritates you so. On the tax payer dime of course. Good for you THIRD, couldn’t make FIRST eh??????
  
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- progressiveslayer
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 9:03pm
  He’s a POS fraud and he sure isn’t a king you communist POS,we’re actually looking forward to the collapse as much as you are,better dead than red. +
  
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- The Third Archon
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 9:13pm
  @RJJINGADSDEN
  Oh I don’t expect the Right to not be UPSET about, and try to politically OPPOSE and/or UNDO, any executive order on gun control Obama issues (really, any executive order Obama issues PERIOD). My point was, and ONLY was, that the implication of the article in the statement “the use of executive orders to get around the elected representatives of the American people” that Obama isn’t ALSO an ‘elected representative of the American People’ is: (1) Laughable; (2) Factually Erroneous; and (3) An amusing insight into how the Right, or at least this little corner of it.
  
  Also, on a different related point–you DO realize that executive orders are constrained by the administrative policy-making powers vested in the President by the Constitution and delegated pursuant to some law by Congress, right? That is, you are, in fact, aware that the President can’t just fiat ANY law he wants into existence unilaterally. So while Obama MAY have some executive authority vis-a-vis his administrative functions to tinker with penalties for violating, and administration of, existing gun control laws he almost certainly couldn’t just decide by himself tomorrow that he wanted semiautomatic firearms to be illegal–that’s something Congress would have to do. Likewise, a President could issue an order to prosecute violations of abortion regulations more vigorously–they could not, ceteris paribus, outlaw any legal abortion procedures by executive order.
  
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- Walkabout
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 9:25pm
  Third Archon,
  
  If I remember you are gay. Have you heard of the Pink Pistols?
  
  “The Pink Pistols are a gay gun rights organization in the United States and Canada. Their mottos are “Pick on someone your own caliber” and “Armed gays don’t get bashed.”"
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Pistols
  
  As a gay person I would think that you would want to be safe. With demographics changing would you be safe from Muslims for example?
  
  The Left always wants the U.S. to be look like Europe, because they are supposedly more culturally advanced. Well, Bruce Bauer writes about Europe extensively. Sometimes it seems that what happens there (like California) happens here. So why don;t you read what Mr. Bawer thinks about the changes in Europe. Mr. Bawer is gay, but I think he is more realistic about things than you are.
  
  http://frontpagemag.com/author/bruce-bawer/
  
  Report this comment
civilwarcometh
Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:19pm
They know how the country feel’s. So if they do this that mean’s they are prepared.

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silvermike
Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:18pm
Molon Labe

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The Third Archon
Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:15pm
” U.S. President Barack Obama (R)…”
I know you PROBABLY meant “right” by the ‘R’ in parentheses next to Obama’s name, but it’s a HILARIOUS ambiguity, and it could have easily been avoided by EITHER (a) adding the extra four characters to spell out the word “Right”–are you on “pay-by-the-letter”?, or (b) Put a “(L) next to Joe Biden’s name so the parallelism made the meaning of the first usage (which, TYPICALLY, is a convention that denotes party affiliation) clear.

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- civilwarcometh
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:34pm
  You know it’s a commie move when you get excited. I hope i run across you soon……..
  
  Report this comment
- Walkabout
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 9:56pm
  Third Archon,
  
  See my comment above
  
  Report this comment
progressiveslayer
Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:14pm
CONGRESS GROW A PAIR AND IMPECH THAT SORRY SOB! The Marxist POS actually thinks we’re Cuba,not yet Barry not even close. Every EO that tyrant comes up with will be unconstitutional,in fact every gun law congress has come up with is unconstitutional. Government has the power we allow them to have and the Marxist POS thinks he’s a king,congress needs to jerk the chain on the fraud and put him in his place,he’s a king in his mind only it’s time congress does their constitutional duty and put the brakes on that psychopath.

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- Live_Free_orDie
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:17pm
  Impeach…
  
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- progressiveslayer
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:25pm
  My rage over came me,thanks.
  
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- scott4freedom
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:55pm
  IMPEACH the Bastard NOW!!!!
  
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- jhrusky
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 10:01pm
  Really, what good does impeachment do? Clinton was impeached … didn’t seem to make a bit of difference in what he could do. This jerk needs to be removed from office, possibly arrested, but a mere impeachment really don’t mean squat as far as I can tell.
  
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- progressiveslayer
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 10:44pm
  JHRUSKY I realize impeachment would be symbolic because he wouldn’t stand trial in the senate,Reid would never allow it but that’s about all that can be done with the POS.
  
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TSUNAMI_22
Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:12pm
Bring it on.

“Shall NOT be infringed”.

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- Mike Benton
  Posted on January 14, 2013 at 8:20pm
  You just named the 1 action they can not take!!!
  
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