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Experts Argue Caring for Smokers, the Obese May Be Too Costly: ‘Why Not Just Let These Health Sinners Die?’

Jan. 26, 2013 3:55pm Erica Ritz

AP: Do Penalties for Smokers, the Obese (Health Sinners) Make Sense?

A woman passes an advertisement outside a fast food outlet on January 7, 2013 in Bristol, England. (Photo: Getty Images)

(TheBlaze/AP) — Faced with the high cost of caring for smokers and overeaters, experts say society must grapple with a chilling question. The Associated Press summarizes: “Instead of trying to penalize them and change their ways, why not just let these health sinners die?”

Annual health care costs are roughly $96 billion for smokers and $147 billion for the obese, the government says. These costs accompany sometimes heroic attempts to prolong lives, including surgery, chemotherapy and other measures.

But despite these rescue attempts, smokers tend to die 10 years earlier on average, and the obese die five to 12 years prematurely, according to various researchers’ estimates.

And attempts to curb smoking and unhealthy eating frequently lead to backlash: Witness the current legal tussle over New York City’s first-of-its-kind limits on the size of sugary beverages and the vicious fight last year in California over a ballot proposal to add another $1-per-pack cigarette tax, which was ultimately defeated.

“This is my life. I should be able to do what I want,” said Sebastian Lopez, a college student from Queens, speaking last September when the New York City Board of Health approved the soda size rules.

Critics also contend that tobacco- and calorie-control measures place a disproportionately heavy burden on poor people. That’s because they:

-Smoke more than the rich, and have higher obesity rates.

-Have less money so sales taxes hit them harder. One study last year found poor, nicotine-dependent smokers in New York – a state with very high cigarette taxes – spent as much as a quarter of their entire income on smokes.

-Are less likely to have a car to shop elsewhere if the corner bodega or convenience store stops stocking their vices.

Critics call these approaches unfair, and believe they have only a marginal effect. “Ultimately these things are weak tea,” said Dr. Scott Gottlieb, a physician and fellow at the right-of-center think tank, the American Enterprise Institute.

But Gottlieb’s view is contested, and the debate rages on in similarly unsettling directions. For instance, some studies suggest that because smokers and the obese often die younger, they may actually cost society less than those who tend to live longer and develop chronic conditions like Alzheimer’s disease.

So let’s return to the original question: Why provoke a backlash? If 1 in 5 U.S. adults smoke, and 1 in 3 are obese, why not just get off their backs and let them go on with their (probably shortened) lives, the Associated Press asks?

A smoker snuffs out a cigarette at the Capitol in Sacramento, Calif. , Friday June 22, 2012. (Photo: AP)

Because it’s not just about them, say some health economists, bioethicists and public health researchers.

“Your freedom is likely to be someone else’s harm,” said Daniel Callahan, senior research scholar at a bioethics think-tank, the Hastings Center.

Smoking has the most obvious impact. Studies have increasingly shown harm to nonsmokers who are unlucky enough to work or live around heavy smokers. And several studies have shown heart attacks and asthma attack rates fell in counties or cities that adopted big smoking bans.

But it can be harder to make the same argument about soda-size restrictions or other legislative attempts to discourage excessive calorie consumption.

“When you eat yourself to death, you’re pretty much just harming yourself,” S. Jay Olshansky, a professor at the University of Illinois-Chicago’s School of Public Health, said.

But that viewpoint doesn’t factor in the burden to everyone else of paying for the diabetes care, heart surgeries and other medical expenses incurred by obese people, John Cawley, a health economist at Cornell University, noted.

“If I’m obese, the health care costs are not totally borne by me. They’re borne by other people in my health insurance plan and – when I’m older – by Medicare,” Cawley said.

From an economist’s perspective, there would be less reason to grouse about unhealthy behaviors by smokers, the obese, motorcycle riders who eschew helmets and other “health sinners” if they agreed to pay the financial price for their choices.

That’s the rationale for a provision in the Affordable Care Act – “Obamacare” to its detractors – that starting next year allows health insurers to charge smokers buying individual policies up to 50 percent higher premiums. A 60-year-old could wind up paying nearly $5,100 on top of premiums.

The new law doesn’t allow insurers to charge more for people who are overweight, however.

It’s tricky to play the insurance game with overweight people, because science is still sorting things out. While obesity is clearly linked with serious health problems and early death, the evidence is not as clear about people who are just overweight.

That said, public health officials shouldn’t shy away from tough anti-obesity efforts, said Callahan, the bioethicist. Callahan caused a public stir this week with a paper that called for a more aggressive public health campaign that tries to shame and stigmatize overeaters the way past public health campaigns have shamed and stigmatized smokers.

National obesity rates are essentially static, and public health campaigns that gently try to educate people about the benefits of exercise and healthy eating just aren’t working, Callahan argued. We need to get obese people to change their behavior. If they are angry or hurt by it, so be it, he said.

“Emotions are what really count in this world,” he said.

–

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Comments (409)

Metallicat
Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:38pm
Americans have always been big people. Thats why we built big cars from the ’40s until the ’70s. If you want to stop smokers from destroying the healthcare system,stop importing people from third world countries who smoke.

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- barber2
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 5:17pm
  Best solution : Ban Obama’s War on Capitalism !
  
  Report this comment
- Metallicat
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 5:54pm
  I concur
  
  Report this comment
- yougottabekidding
  Posted on January 27, 2013 at 8:22am
  The liberals don’t want death panels !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
  http://tpnn.com/obama-reported-to-be-dismissing-military-leaders-who-will-not-fire-on-civilians-if-ordered/
  
  Report this comment
- Rickfromillinois
  Posted on January 27, 2013 at 10:05am
  Then after we let the fatties and smokers die off we can start on people who are genetically predisposed towards heart disease, cancer, and other diseases. Maybe we should neuter them before they have a chance to reproduce. After all, they and their decedents are a drag on resources that are paid by everyone.
  
  Everyone is required to be a part of Obamacare and then they can use that as a vehicle to control the population. Don’t live the way we want, no medical care. Don’t eat what we say you should, don’t exercise every day, do anything that we consider “unhealthy”, die.
  
  Report this comment
- Jaimo
  Posted on January 27, 2013 at 2:41pm
  Does that mean we will also ban unhealthy sex practices like those of gay people. That would be rich. I mean AIDS has cost the healthcare system a ton of money over the years. Just a question to be answered along with all the others.
  
  Report this comment
- gbo
  Posted on January 27, 2013 at 3:16pm
  And so it begins…
  The administration has begun wielding its mighty Obama-care (existence tax) sword to smite down all enemies of the State; those who are too sick, those who are too old, those who are too religious, those who are too inconvenient, those who are too wealthy, those who are too untaxed, those who are too independent, those who are too knowledgeable, and those who are too much in opposition. Stopping this tyranny will demand free citizens standing up and standing against the corruption running rampant in their government and in their own lives. You will need help, so pray for it. Then roll up your sleeves, and get to work. Hope for change if you must, but doing nothing is how we got into this mess. It should not be considered a viable option for getting out of it.
  
  Report this comment
- tonypro
  Posted on January 27, 2013 at 3:58pm
  …..and the arian, nazi utopian society culling begins.
  
  Report this comment
- Busybea007
  Posted on January 27, 2013 at 5:04pm
  Looking more like germany in the 1930′s – every day- and the “i feel your pain – filthy- lying – progressive “liberal democrats” who are “so concerned” about their “fellow man” spewing bs -is out “front” with this plan!!! Worse than a terrorist!!! At least the terrorist isn’t telling you he is “doing it for “your” good!!! Murdering pigs!!!
  
  Report this comment
- bumpkin
  Posted on January 27, 2013 at 6:53pm
  Agreed! And, if we need to abandon smokers and over-eaters, then we need to also abandon health care for politicians, since it is they who have basically destroyed The United States of America, with their gluttonous overspending, and selfish raping of a once-noble system. In fact, it is agreed that smokers and over-eaters do their self-damage out of anxiety. So, its possible that the VERY BEST cure for smoking and over-eating, is to ban all politicians who make Americans anxious! Problem SOLVED!
  
  Report this comment
- sillyfreshness
  Posted on January 27, 2013 at 7:33pm
  You will never have governments control the food industry. The food industry won’t let it happen. Here’s how it works: The food industry goes to their congressman and says “we don’t want to be regulated, we don’t even want to tell customers about the content of what they’re eating.” The congressman says “how much would you like to ‘donate’ to my campaign?” A huge wad of cash is handed over and the congressman says “Yes, I agree. People don’t need to know about what they are eating. I’ll block any such legislation.” And that’s the end of it.
  
  Same thing with school uniforms. Even though school uniforms are needed in schools since kids use their clothing brands to judge other kids, it will never happen. The clothing industry will pay off their congressman to prevent any legislation that would require school uniforms. BTW, most clothing giants were either created by or are ran by “chosen people” like Ralph Lauren, Gap, Banana Republic, Lands End, J.(C)rew, etc.
  
  Report this comment
- LeadNotFollow
  Posted on January 27, 2013 at 7:56pm
  The Government fully supports a woman’s rights to kill her unborn baby, stating that it’s her body to do with as she wishes.
  
  Why doesn’t that apply to people who are obese, or smokers?
  It’s their body, they should be able to do as they wish, with their own body.
  
  Report this comment
- glassbeadlady
  Posted on January 28, 2013 at 12:09am
  LeadNotFollow; you are so right there.
  
  Report this comment
- DeniseJ
  Posted on January 28, 2013 at 4:39am
  Who here believes our alleged POTUS is smoke free???
  
  Report this comment
- naughtycal
  Posted on January 28, 2013 at 8:04am
  Why not take that “make your own bed”philosophy to all areas. You’re too lazy to work have funny starving AND BEING HOMELESS,your having unprotected sex have funny with your disease,you have children you can’t afford best of luck to you,you play around in school instead of learning good luck digging ditches,your home gets invaded and you didn’t have a gun to protect yourself buy a gun.
  You worked your live buying more than you needed and expensive electronic and cars when you could have saved you MADE YOUR BED NOW SLEEP IN IT
  
  Report this comment
- DebateMe
  Posted on January 28, 2013 at 11:50am
  @LeadNotFollow
  Logical consistency is not what drives the political left. It is all about emotion and subjective reasoning of the moment. So by those standards, it makes perfect sense to fight for killing babies in the name of, ‘it’s the woman’s body’ but then fight in the opposite direction when it comes to smokers or obese people. In short, the reasoning behind why liberal causes are liberal causes is that they pull them out of their a$$ and decide if such cause feels good today.
  
  Report this comment
Jedrin
Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:36pm
The real solution is to ban insurance completely. Work a day, get paid for that day, spend your money as you feel fit. Buy a car, better food or whatever. I spent years wihtout health insurance. I am ok with $60 visits and whatever it cost for anything else. Why are people so opposed for paying for doctors? Even the poorest of the poor own a car and keep it running.

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- GotMullet
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:55pm
  Yeah…. complain about doctors! How much per hour does the local Chevy dealer charge for repairs? There’s no movement to make car care affordable!
  
  Report this comment
- Fubared
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 6:13pm
  Why buy a Chevy?
  
  Report this comment
- JimInTexas
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 7:31pm
  All I can say is you obviously have never had to stay in a hospital a few days. A 2 week stay in the hospital will bankrupt most average working people. Like most, you equate your life experiences to everyone else. Has it ever occurred to you that you were just lucky? As in real real lucky?
  
  Report this comment
- From Virginia
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 10:04pm
  @Jimintexas – THAT is what insurance SHOULD be for. Catastropic care. It SHOULD be like car insurance. You have to pay for all the maintence (i.e. tune ups, oil change, etc) but your insurance kicks in when you have an accident. Health insurance should be the same way. Check ups, routine visits we all have to have should come out our pocket. Hospital care is when our insurance should kick in.
  
  Report this comment
- kaydeebeau
  Posted on January 27, 2013 at 7:23am
  @ Virginia – that is how health insurance used to be even in the 70s when I was kid- it was even called hospitalization or major medical…
  
  Report this comment
- G-WHIZ
  Posted on January 27, 2013 at 9:54am
  In the late-50′s my neighbors almost all had “chebbies”, buiks, old-mobiles, pottyyacks, and cattl-attacks! Now, I, as-a-kid, would look at the dealers “repair-lines” as I went on pubic-transportation to and from gradeschool. ” lookie alla the long-lines in back-of the GM-DEALERS!!” “LOOKIE ALLA SHORTER LINES BEHIOND THE FORD–CHRY/DODGE–RAMBLER DEALERS!!….especially the 2-5cars behind the dodge and rambler repair-entrances…compaired to round-the-block at the GM’s! Where did y’a think you would get quicker service?! So, with this info at hand, most of my neighbors traded-up to fords,mercs,lincolns,dodges,chry’s, and ramblers. Some still had the “complaint” that they enjoyed being “away-from-work” with getting the car “fixed” soo-often(their new joke).
  
  Report this comment
- OhioChuck
  Posted on January 27, 2013 at 12:14pm
  There are all kinds of ways to repair your car cheaply: small shops that charge a fraction of what dealers do, to doing it yourself. It use to be that you could find a doctor that had reasonable fees and cared more about you than what insurance you have.
  
  Report this comment
- Commander8080
  Posted on January 28, 2013 at 12:19pm
  I agree. For 14 years of paying for insurance. I put pen to paper on day and found out that between my employer and I. We paid a little over $175,000 for health insurance and they paid out about $35,000 in claims. My family and I have been without healthcare for 7 years now and we feel good. And if something happens I will take care of it. If it is something I can’t I have faith to see me through.
  
  For the most part healthcare was not an issue before 1992 and bill and hillary made it an issue. I will not buy into this lie anymore and will not be forced into buying something I do not want.
  
  Report this comment
IMCHRISTIAN
Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:35pm
So many trying to play God or in this case Devil.

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- Chunkyrhyno
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 5:07pm
  thats funny they’re even talking about this when we have a President who smokes,,,fyi yes he still does! and dont forget about the first lady whose pretending to be “fit”,,,sorry people, according to their own standard, she too is overweight,,,,,o yes you can see it through her clothes………………..but then again, what do you expect?
  
  Report this comment
- Mil-Dot
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 5:15pm
  Nobody is trying to play God or Devil. They are just stating that it is better to let nature take its course and let those inferior specimens fall aside. I know this sounds cruel and heartless, but is it not how every other species on earth meets its own fate? We have 6+ billion humans walking around, and I posit that if you threw the miscreants, criminals, fatsos, and way past due old folks in the deepest part of the Indian Ocean, we would not miss a beat. Don’t get me wrong, we all love grandma and grandpa. But do the rest of us really have to pay for pushing the envelope way past their calling? 40% of all Medicare spending is done on the last 6 months of life. That is just not a wise use of national resources. And yes, I include myself, my family and my friends as well. Truth is truth. Sorry.
  
  Report this comment
- IMCHRISTIAN
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 5:29pm
  Mil…It is not governments place to say who lives and dies. They wanted to change the best healthcare in the world and now this is their solution? God will be the final judge no matter what you say.
  
  Report this comment
- Mil-Dot
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 5:47pm
  Christian,
  Your opinion is as valid as mine. I am not for the govt picking and choosing who lives and dies. I am for “when your time is up”, your time is up. That includes progs, and conservatives-all of us. We are broke. Don’t you get it?
  
  Report this comment
- Mil-Dot
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 5:48pm
  And , by the way Christian, I’m a Catholic. So don’t look down your pompous snoot at me. I will not put up with it.
  
  Report this comment
- hatchetjob
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 6:20pm
  MIL-DOT, I’m really enjoying your comments on this subject, and I agree with you. All of this makes me appreciate the “do not resuscitate” clause.
  
  Report this comment
- macpappy
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 6:26pm
  Mil-Dot
  What if they decided to make “ignorant catholics” do without health care, then it would be your turn to die.
  I can much easier put up with a fat smoker than I can a pompous asss that thinks they deserve to live more than the next man.
  
  Report this comment
- corbecket
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 6:33pm
  This is a !TERRIBLE! idea. If they go after fat folks, they’re going to lose half of Congress, not to mention the Dem’s frontrunner for 2016, Hillary (who is morbidly obese), unless you’ve only seen the media’s pictures of her. Most every picture/video you see of her, is from the chest up. As I said, most of the congressional population is in the same boat, but not as bad.
  
  Good for them that they are covered by a different health plan (I think).
  
  Report this comment
- hatchetjob
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 7:15pm
  CORBECKET, Unfortunately, Congress isn’t included, it’s only for us peons. But you’re right, a lot of them would be candidates for the fat farm.
  
  Report this comment
- Witness1974
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 7:46pm
  Mil-dot
  I have read all your posts for the day on this subject. I think MacPappy says it best. You believe in evolution apparently. You must be pretty conflicted–a Catholic that believes in evolution. The Catholic church has made a stand on doing everything possible to preserve life. It uses the words of Christ and its moral foundation. Evolution on the other hand has nothing to stand on when it comes to morality. It advocates the law of the tooth and claw. It is a monstrous idea, as you have so aptly demonstrated, that favors the brute over the weak. Your posts are spoken like someone who has never watched other people suffer through accident and disease. I have been there and witnessed hundreds of people die. There is no dignity in it. The human soul is precious and all of them have some worth whatever “sins” they may have comitted. This earth is a place where those souls make decisions that will determine their existence for eternity. No one knows what a person might experience in the last months of their lives that could change everything for them. Who do you think you are? Who are you to say who lives or dies. You base your arguments almost exclusively on economics. Call yourself a Catholic if you want to, but you sound more like a Fascist. And, you argue like a left winger. I don’t think your are a conservative. I don’t think you are a Catholic. Both believe that life is a precious gift. Your thinking is horrific.
  
  Report this comment
- timb58
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 8:10pm
  Didn’t you know there is know God, only liberals
  
  Report this comment
- corbecket
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 11:17pm
  Witness1974,
  
  Don’t be too hard on Mildot. We all live with, or are victims of conflicts in our philosophies. I recall that in graduate school, we had a genetics professor that was a born-again Christian who was pretty sharp. The grad students and faculty traditionally got together once a week for “Thursday Seminar”. Students and faculty alike held forth on their ongoing research projects, and the exchange of ideas was great for everyone. That is, until someone dropped a bomb.
  
  The geneticist had completed his presentation and opened the conversation to questions. One particular grad student (I cannot remember his name, but surely not I) asked him that, since he was a reborn fundamentalist Christian, how was it that he could hold religious beliefs (no evolution) and his scientific profession (blatantly pro-evolution) at the same time.
  
  The room went dead silent waiting for the answer, and it came.
  
  “In answer to your question, I don’t rationalize the conflict. I just don’t THINK about either of them at the same time”.
  
  The room erupted into faux boos, while he was showered with empty coffee cups and wadded up papers. He ducked, while giggling impishly. I mean, what else could he do? Sometimes it is better just to live with conflict, though this fellow was the living embodiment of the dilemma.
  
  In reality, I don’t know that I have met anyone that solves all of the philosophical/religious conflicts in their lives. It is part and parcel of the human conditi
  
  Report this comment
- Witness1974
  Posted on January 27, 2013 at 12:00am
  Corbecket: I agree with your statement. There is, of course, conflicting beliefs in everyone. Even though I believe in Christ, I still willfully sin at times. At those moments I deny Christ and I am, in effect, a practical atheist.
  
  Report this comment
- 1stKENTUCKYREGULAR
  Posted on January 27, 2013 at 12:37pm
  @MIL-DOT in regards to posting dated 1-26-13 @ 5:15 pm
  I believe your posting to be accurate and commend you for your willingness to put in print the reality that most humans refuse to recoginze. I think your post would recieve less scrutiny and hostility if you framed it differently. please allow me to try.
  
  When the CREATOR granted the gift of life, IT also guaranteed the gift of death. nothing more, nothing less. The when, where, how, or why of death(in this discussian) is determind by the individual or the individuals surroundings. Thereby making death the single paramiter of life itself.
  Healthcare does not, I repeat, does not save life.
  IT ONLY EXTENDS LIFE. nothing more, nothing less. Therefore healthcare is NOT a right, as rights are given only by the CREATOR.
  In summation: if you choose to smoke, over eat, live in large air polluted cities, sky dive whatever, etc. etc. etc. You, the individual, are responsible for your life and your health, no one else, period.
  
  Report this comment
- usedCZARsalesman
  Posted on January 27, 2013 at 12:57pm
  IMCHRISTIAN…you don’t know it, but what YOU are advocating is the “government picking who lives and who dies.
  
  MIL talked about 40% of MEDICARE spending. Last time I checked, that’s a government program. Every time the government pushes out a new reg forcing insurance companies to cover people that COSTS THEM MONEY, the government is choosing. If you cannot pay a VERY high premium in your twilight you should be allowed to expire. The second I feel myself being even a FEW YEARS away from being an invalid, or home bound, I’m going to wander in the woods in winter and take a nap under a tree. Like an elephant graveyard in the savannah.
  
  MIL is right on this one. If we stopped propping up those that no longer have ANY chance of “producing” (and that’s in any way, if your mind is still sharp and you still contribute intellectually, this does not apply to you), AND we stop MASS MURDERING our unborn, this system might be a little more streamlined…
  
  Oh, and of COURSE you have to get the federal government FAR FAR away from ALL of it. Research, pharm, tort, ect
  
  Report this comment
- IMCHRISTIAN
  Posted on January 27, 2013 at 2:03pm
  USEDCZAR….I said it was NOT the business of the government to say who lives or dies. I do NOT believe in the killing of the unborn. I have always had a good health insurance co to date. Medicare is paid by the individuals when working and also there is an amount paid to the government when eligible to receive and they (the individual) could possibly have or should have a medicare supplement from an insurance company policy to cover the balance. If insurance companies were concerned they could have charged extra for those that were way overweight. There has always been a catastrophic policy or a lot of choices at one time what kind of insurance policy to purchase.
  
  Report this comment
- usedCZARsalesman
  Posted on January 27, 2013 at 2:33pm
  Ok IMCHRISTIAN, think we may be arguing the same point…what I am saying is that if you truly do remove government from the equation, then the effect of this story happens anyway. Smokers and morbidly obese (those without genetic thyroid disorders) people would be completely cut off from the “mainstream” insurance avenues in a low regulation capitalist system. No intelligent company would take the GUARANTEED red ink. So, if you are on board with letting those people expire (rather, having the market allow them to expire) outside of them being wealthy and paying cash, then were on the same page
  
  Report this comment
- IMCHRISTIAN
  Posted on January 27, 2013 at 5:18pm
  USEDCZAR… Yes, we are about on same course. If a person is that close to death however, I do believe it is a choice between the spouse and his/her doctor. I had a spouse that was terminally ill but that did not mean I would let him/her suffer when there is medicine that makes them comfortable until the time for me to say goodbye. No government had anything to do with the choice and he/she went when we knew it was time. Have a good day, my friend and God Bless.
  
  Report this comment
- booger71
  Posted on January 28, 2013 at 12:54am
  usedCZARsalesman
  ==================
  I would agree with you if you included the federally mandated paying for child birth, mental health coverage, etc out of my insurance policy. Actually given your rules, insurance companies would only issue a policy to someone without any genetic or lifestyle concerns, that way they would rarely pay out any claims.
  
  Report this comment
OlefromMN
Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:34pm
First they came for the cigarette smokers and I didn’t speak up because I only smoked pot.
Then they came for the fat people and I did not speak up because I worked out at the trendy “health club” that all of the pretty people hung out at.
Then they came for the drinkers (but only those that drank mash and beer) and I did not speak up because I drank wine.
Then they came for the BMW drivers and it was then I realized I was screwed.

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- barber2
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:49pm
  You have captured the essence of the ” new” America with humor !
  
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- blanco5
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 5:31pm
  Ha! Good one.
  
  Report this comment
- CatB
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 6:38pm
  Excellent .. what about all these people who run and their knees and other things take a beating … how about people who hang glide or surf or other dangerous sports .. no only does someone sometimes have to come and rescue them .. but they are costing money when they get injured .. where does it stop? When does the government stop controlling how you live? NEVER if they get their way.
  
  Report this comment
- GardenoftheGods
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 6:42pm
  Exactly! If we allow one citizen to lose their rights; we all face losing our rights. I think about how things have changed over the last 20 years…we started off with the Patriot Act chopping away at our liberties; and now NObama & Big Nappy are declaring Conservatives terrorists…How soon before they come for you and me?
  
  Report this comment
- joseyiscute
  Posted on January 27, 2013 at 8:52pm
  First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out–
  Because I was not a Socialist.
  
  Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out–
  Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
  
  Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out–
  Because I was not a Jew.
  
  Then they came for me–and there was no one left to speak for me.
  
  Martin Niemöller (1892-1984)
  
  Report this comment
- toby63
  Posted on January 28, 2013 at 11:42am
  I love it! What a great post!
  
  Seriously, though, I don’t like the fact that the government (via POTUS’s obamacare) will ultimately choose who suffers and who doesn’t. I’m wondering why nothing’s being said about abortion, alcohol consumption, speeding, etc., etc.
  
  And to those who are feeling oh, so superior to others who may have a weight or smoking “thing” going on – best stop cheering and watch out – the PC police will undoubtedly find another “vice” to clamp onto – and it just could be one of yours.
  
  Report this comment
texanpatriot
Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:29pm
Obamacare is set up to decide who gets care and who does not. All that is needed is a ruling by the Death Squad established by the Affordable Care Act that illness caused by smoking and obesity are not covered. Or denying care for anyone over 70.

This will solve the problem. As pointed out already in these comments that is what the Nazis did. First the imperfect (disabled) then the homosexuals, then the Jews/Christians, the old and infirm are declared outcasts.

Then only the perfect, healthy blond and blued eyed males and females will be allowed to prosper. Ahhh, eugenics!!

From State’s Rights with some delegated authority to the Federal government in the 18th Century to this! Now a department in the Federal government will decide on who lives and who dies.

Is there even a chance to reverse this?

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- soybomb315_II
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:38pm
  there WAS a chance to reverse this….Not sure if there will be another
  
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- Lt_Scrounge
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 5:17pm
  There is a historical reference on how to correct this. It begins with the phrase “When in the course of human events….”
  
  Why do you think they are so dead set on trying to register all of the firearms that would be most effective for use against a tyrannical government?
  
  Report this comment
- Mil-Dot
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 5:23pm
  Tex,
  Respectfully my patriot brother, is it really wise to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to preserve the lives of those that will perish anyway? Is it really? Your opinion is as valid as mine. We are all entitled to that much. Freedom is utmost.
  
  Report this comment
- Walkabout
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 5:33pm
  Yellow stars of David for Jews, pink triangles for homosexuals, the retarded, Christian preachers who would not toe the socialist line, …
  
  and now History repeats itself with variation.
  
  Report this comment
- macpappy
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 6:07pm
  Mil-Dot
  Sounds like you missed your time. The Third Reich missed you. Maybe if you keep trying you can find another liberal fascist group to be a part of.
  Why don’t we just pre-determine who will be bad for the collective and abort them before birth…..oh, but wait….
  
  Report this comment
- TH777
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 7:15pm
  @Macpappy: You took the words right out of my mouth in your post to Mil-dot! I was thinking the same exact thing!
  
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Metallicat
Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:29pm
That should go for gays,drug addicts,alcoholics, the transgendered,and women wanting abortions as well. Why condone one sin while condemning another?

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- momrules
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:37pm
  Because none of the things you mentioned are sins to the liberal/progressives in power.
  
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- RJJinGadsden
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:49pm
  METALLICAT, I know where you are coming from. If they want to pick and choose their select straw man targets the rest of us should scream about all counter productive activity. But, as you have stated the loony left has their select sacred cows of aberrant behavior regardless how costly their care is to any provider, which is usually the taxpayer.
  
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- Mil-Dot
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 5:30pm
  MetalCat,
  You are missing the point. The point is not to target any one group or individuals. It is to let those that cannot survive without massive medical intervention die a graceful death. It is not about picking and choosing, it is about natural selection. Be it drug addicts, alcoholics, fatsos, idiots, bad DNA recipients, whatever. Let them go with dignity. They are soaking the rest of us blind. Do not be so jaded to think that it is only the Dems that want us dead. They have miscreants in their ranks as well. It is about natural law. That is all it is my friend.
  
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- macpappy
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 6:22pm
  Mil-Dot
  You are so unimformed you should not be posting your Supermist ideals. First of all:you say it is nateral law….we make and alter “Nateral Law” whatever that is all the time. It was nateral for man to die of the elements, up until he learned to build dwellings, he died of hunger, up until he farmed, hunted, and harvested. But now that he has a way to overcome other factors of death, you in all your superme knowledge have decided who should receive such and who does not.
  You sir, are the “miscrient” that the public needs to be protected from. If you don’t like where your health care dollars goes your first thought is to kill off the infirm. We have seen your type in power before, and have defeated them at every turn.
  
  Report this comment
- americangrammy
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 9:00pm
  Mildot is unfortunately very typical of some present and former military men. They believe that the only worthy people are people who live by military standards of weight and behavior. My husband was in the military for over 20 years and it was a matter of pride and discipline to stay slim. You could beat your wife and children, be a functional alcoholic and an all around total bastard. Your life might be a shambles, but you could always look down on those fat sobs that you defended in war, right?
  Now don’t get me wrong, I support our military citizens, they are the real backbone of this country. But, I have seen this bias over and over again. Sir, there are many, many worse things than being a fatso. And there are many, many reasons why people are “fat”. It’s easy to scorn people who don’t fit your ideas and biases. But of one thing I am sure. What goes around, comes around and those of you who would like to see death sentences for those you scorn will one day face the same fate. Perhaps your broken back from that climbing accident, or maybe your internal injuries from that motorcycle accident will be just too expensive for the collective to bear. This is a slippery slope into hell on earth. God help us.
  
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- GeorgieJo
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 10:39pm
  Wonder if they would include all the worthless nearly brain dead congressmen who make big bucks and enjoy their health insurance? Shirley they should be included.
  
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- HappyGirl537
  Posted on January 27, 2013 at 9:08am
  Momrules, you hit the nail on the head.
  
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- booger71
  Posted on January 28, 2013 at 1:02am
  Mildot
  
  It is not the people you describe (smokers, fatsos, druggies, etc) that soak up the health care dollars and raises the price of about everything related to healthcare, it is requiring every policy to include delivering babies, well baby care, mental health coverage, the massive malpractice lawsuits, government regulations that drive up the cost on everyone.
  
  Report this comment
AmericanStrega
Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:27pm
So when all the smokers are dead what other group of people are going to have to pay more in taxes to shore-up the loss of revenue the dead smokers caused?

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- hatchetjob
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 6:31pm
  Probably the people hobbling around shaking out wedgies, they should be taxed next.
  
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SPOT_OF_TEA
Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:26pm
Another example of socialism rearing its evil head….You tax the hell out of the tax payers to pay for the non tax payers,thus making it hard for the tax payer to pay for his own needs due to less money in his pay check…then you deny services to the tax payer because of his lifestlye and the non tax payers are welcomed with open arms because they eat their veggies….the payer denied and the taker accepted….thats where we are at right now.

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- Mil-Dot
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 5:36pm
  Spot,
  No, the leeches get to die in their own time just like the producers. None of this “welfare goons go to the front of the line” crap. When your number is called, you go up. But, I get your point. The progs will use this method to weed us out while protecting their electorate. I get it. Good post.
  
  Report this comment
dosdelgados
Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:25pm
That’s one way to get rid of Obama and Boehner.

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GuruMeditation
Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:21pm
I hate to break the news but we all die.

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- hatchetjob
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 7:18pm
  When my time comes, I only want Morphine (if there’s any in stock).
  
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- Wisdom7
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 9:04pm
  “I smoke ten to fifteen cigars a day. At my age I have to hold on to something.” – George Burns
  
  “Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman – or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle.” – George Burns
  
  He lived to be 100 years of age.
  
  Report this comment
momrules
Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:20pm
Next it will be the handicapped, the mentally challenged ( retarded in the days before PC ), the elderly, the poor, and on and on and on until they get to you and decide that YOU should be punished in some way or just put down like a sick animal.

This is all about weeding out the undesirables.

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- Fubared
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:39pm
  ooh ooh undesirables? Meat Eeyors, Encidiot, BarryMeth, Keaton, WangDang/Senseless, Godfather1, Steelhead, Wino Dude, Jihad Jerk, OldPhotog, SillySally, and MorsiEngineer69?
  Those kinds of undesirables?
  
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- momrules
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:46pm
  Got your wish list ready, huh Fubared? LOL
  
  Report this comment
- barber2
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:52pm
  MOM: You forgot MAJASDAD, but I think she must have thrown him out of the house as we haven’t heard from him in ages. Poor Maja…..
  
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- barber2
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:53pm
  FUBARED: Sorry, that comment should have been addressed to you !
  
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- Fubared
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 5:14pm
  Yeh, so many trolls, so little time-
  
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- hatchetjob
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 6:35pm
  Boy, I’m glad I’m not on that list, whew!
  
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- TulsaYeeHaw
  Posted on January 27, 2013 at 1:57pm
  You both forgot sendthemeteors. Wouldn’t be so bad if he/she were honest about desires for communism.
  
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dave88
Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:20pm
We can use the money we are wasting on green energy and global warming to care for these people.

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intercepter
Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:17pm
who in the he!! are these people looking down their smug little noses at the masses and decide who stays and who goes ,I don’t think god needs help in the judging department

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- GoodCook
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:34pm
  Obamacare in a nut shell “If you make to the cradle (Abortion first ) then the will you when they will put you the grave. Remember what freedom was like before the radical extremist Democrat party thugs were in charge. Simply put if you voted for the extremeist radical Democrat, and that would be all of them, then please die and get out of the way of those of us who love life and freedom. Your Democrat party will thank you for it because you will save the country, er I mean party, money that can be used for Obama vacations..
  
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SocialistSlayer
Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:15pm
Communist obama is a Smoker – Just let him die !

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- momrules
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:27pm
  But he is special so it won’t apply to him. ALL of the elitists will get a pass, as usual.
  
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IMCHRISTIAN
Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:14pm
I knew they didn’t know what they were doing with the Obamacare. They think they can control and pay for everything with no money.

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DZ-015
Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:12pm
With Agenda 21 putting huge areas of the country off limits to human activity, including agriculture, we have to feed the healthy. Time for the Soylent Rainbow.

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Dr.Fez
Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:11pm
Well, I can tell you that that campaign is going to fall flat.
As soon as you mention ‘shaming’, all the ‘social justice warriors’ come out screaming about how unfair it is, and that you’ll make people ‘feel bad’.

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The_Almighty_Creestof
Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:08pm
To some extent, I agree certain people should be targeted. Why pay extra for insurance to cover the cost of those who do not make obvious & realistic changes to their lifestyles…and instead just gobble up pills to “control” their problem.

Would we condone someone getting a new liver others could use…just to keep on drinking?

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- OlefromMN
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:17pm
  Why pay anything for someone who chooses not to work, or becomes pregnant to continue to receive payments from those who are responsible enough to work?
  
  You have joined the slippery slope that is government regulation of behavior modification.
  
  Report this comment
- soybomb315_II
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:31pm
  if we had real health insurance, the companies would charge rates based on the health of the person. Obese and smokers should pay more insurance than the people who are not. Thats how we know the health insurance industry is NOT a free market
  
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- booger71
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:49pm
  Requiring me to have pregnancy insurance, mental health insurance, cover other peoples kids until age 26, well baby care, pay for someone who is on a dozen prescription drugs is ludicrous.
  
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- barber2
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 6:00pm
  BOO: BUT, that is necessary to get votes for Obama and the Democrats ! So just pay up and shut up. That is what they expect you nasty ” rich ” people who pay taxes to do so that the Democrats can remain FOREVER in the White House !
  
  Report this comment
TSUNAMI_22
Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:08pm
Health sinners? Health sinners need to die?

Is this tantamount to a new term called “S.T.O” – ‘Sinfully Transmitted Obesity’?

The people that come up with this stuff need to be flogged publicly.

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woodyee
Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:05pm
“experts say society must grapple with a chilling question. The Associated Press summarizes: “Instead of trying to penalize them and change their ways, why not just let these health sinners die?”

Experts.
Health Sinners.
Nazi’s.
Death Camps.

If they’re talking about it, they’re done thinking about it, and just trying to develop a, erahhh, CONSENSUS…

Any of you trolls out there fat smokers? Just because you’re one of their parrots, does NOT mean you’re, erahhh, excused. If you think THAT, you’re dumber than we thought…

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XquisiteWretch
Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:04pm
This poster (from around 1938) reads: “60,000 Reichsmark is what this person suffering from a hereditary defect costs the People’s community during his lifetime. Fellow citizen, that is your money too. Read ‘[A] New People’, the monthly magazine of the Bureau for Race Politics of the NSDAP.”

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Southernsoul
Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:04pm
Wow, who could have seen that coming????

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XquisiteWretch
Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:04pm
Hmmm, this reminds me of a certain European nation that did this a while back, started picking and choosing who should live and die: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/EnthanasiePropaganda.jpg

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SIXFRIGATES
Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:02pm
I want a Twinkie!

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- GuruMeditation
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:22pm
  No, but I’ll have a cigarette.
  
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- fande3rls
  Posted on January 26, 2013 at 5:48pm
  I have three boxes
  
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- Dismayed Veteran
  Posted on January 28, 2013 at 12:02pm
  And a really expensive single malt.
  
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Fubared
Posted on January 26, 2013 at 4:01pm
Gonna empty out section 8 and HUD. Bunch of racists.

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