Atheists Sue R.I. Florist for Refusing to Deliver Flowers to Teen Atheist Behind Prayer Mural Ban
Teen atheist Jessica Ahlquist gained widespread media attention throughout 2012 after successfully suing to have a prayer mural removed from her high school in Cranston, R.I. After a judge sided with Alhquist, she received threats from those who opposed her actions and scholarships and praise from the nation’s atheist activist movement. But among the odder developments following the case was a subsequent spat that developed between Rhode Island-based florists and the Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF), an atheistic non-profit.
TheBlaze first reported about this incident on Jan. 20, 2012, noting that the FFRF reportedly tried to have a dozen roses delivered to Ahlquist with the message, “Congratulations, and hang in there, with admiration from FFRF.” After being denied by three florists in the Cranston area, the group was eventually able to secure an order from a business located in Connecticut. However, they decided to go after two of the businesses that declined service.
Last Friday, the organization filed a lawsuit against Twins Florist, claiming that Marina Plowman, the business owner, denied the FFRF “full and equal access to public accommodations by refusing to fulfill a flower order on the basis of religion (non-belief), in violation of Rhode Island General Laws.” The legal challenge comes nearly one year after the incident and following the group’s previous civil rights complaints.
Jessica Ahlquist, top center, who brought action against a prayer banner at Cranston West High School smiles as she sits with supporters during a school committee meeting at Cranston East High School in Cranston, RI., Thursday night, Feb. 16, 2012. (AP Photo/Stephan Savoia)
On Jan. 2012, the FFRF filed a grievance with the state’s Commission for Human Rights and was granted a victory, with a preliminary investigative commissioner noting in October that there is “probable cause” to assume that Plowman’s refusal violated state law. Now, the case is heading to court (the FFRF also filed a grievance against a separate florist, who chose mediation through the commission – an event that will unfold in March).
Previously, Plowman stated that her refusal to fulfill the order was nothing personal and that it was her right, as a business owner, to decline.
“I just chose not to do it. Nothing personal, it was a choice that I made,” she said in an interview conducted last year. “It was my right, so I did that. I’m an independent owner and I can chose whoever I want, whenever I want.”
Jessica Ahlquist (left) (AP)
But the FFRF doesn’t agree with this assessment and the organization is taking to the courts to ensure that the Plowman hears atheists’ angst regarding the matter. As The Christian Post reports, the lawsuit it seeking “reasonable court costs and damages.” Additionally, the organization is advocating for an injunction that would prevent Plowman from similar acts of discrimination in the future.
“This is outright discrimination. It was ugly and it is a violation of the Civil Rights Act,” FFRF co-president Annie Laurie Gaylor told the Post this week. “This is very fundamental to civil liberties in this country. All we are asking for is the delivery of our flowers.”
In a separate interview, Plowman did not offer much information, but she did tell the outlet that her decision not to send the flowers had nothing to do with religion and that she had no idea who Ahlquist was at the time.
Is Plowman right to assume that she has the right, as a business owner, to decline service or is the FFRF’s discrimination case stronger? Let us know what you think in the comments section.
(H/T: Christian Post)
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Comments (228)
tzion
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 12:32pmWhile I certainly don’t support this, the Civil Rights Act as it currently exists likely gives them a nearly airtight case. Not much that can be done in the short run about it.
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kettererbg
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 12:57pmAny private business can decline to serve anyone. What they should have done was send the roses with poison ivy in a nice floral arrangement.
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OldSurfRat
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 1:24pmI have learned as a business owner not to tell a customer that you have decided not to do business with them.
Sorry but we can not meet your needs at this time due to our current schedule.
Raise your price to an unacceptable level (supply and demand)
The old stand by. Disconnect each time they call as if you have phone issues. They will usually move on to the next company. You might even get a “God Damn It” which I like because it infers that they believe in what??
As for the little fat girl let her learn her lesson the hard way. That will do pig that will do!
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tradcatholicgirl
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 2:24pmThis is not a civil rights issue.
how can any “rights ” be violated? It is a private business and a non-essential service for which no monopoly exists.
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canadianlady
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 3:06pmI fail to see how this is any different from Bank of America refusing to provide loans to gun manufacturers and dealers or the City of Chicago refusing to allow Chick-Fil-A to set up shop within its city borders. If that is acceptable, then Christians should be able to legally refuse to serve atheist advocates.
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encinom
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 3:19pmThe typicla spewing of hate from the so called Christians and their religion of love and peace.
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usedCZARsalesman
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 3:46pmI swear ENCINOM, if this really qualifies as “hate” for you, you must have literally ZERO free time to do anything else but catalog the daily episodes of hatred you see all around you. I bet you think it “hate speech” when a critic gives a movie you like bad reviews.
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Freedomlover_US
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 4:29pmThis is just going to embolden Jessica – and I sure hope it does
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justgonnastay
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 5:47pmCANADIANLADY – As to the Bank of America issue, you’re right, it’s up to them who they do business with. As for the city of Chicago, that’s a government entity and what they’re doing is illegal.
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wethepublicans
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 6:58pmYeah yeah yeah…. gives the atheists a legal case there, and Christian groups (Hebrews and Muslims can get away with it) have to ask permission to kneel to tie their shoes in public.
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DieHippieDie
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 9:19pm“full and equal access to public accommodations by refusing to fulfill a flower order on the basis of religion (non-belief), in violation of Rhode Island General Laws.”
whoa….wait….whats up with those parentheses (non-belief)…i get the part about discriminating against somebody based on their religion but dont try to tell me that atheism is a religion….ive had many dirty hippies tell me that atheism is NOT a religion….i believe that in order for the hippies to win their nuisance suit, they will have to prove that atheism is a religion
also, you cant edit in things like (non-belief) into a law and thereby change the law….
also, im pretty sure some filthy athiest hippie man sending flowers to an underage high school girl is not only creepy but may be illegal….ill have my lawyers contact the flower companies and work up a counter suit for sexual harassment and soliciting a minor….
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DieHippieDie
Posted on February 2, 2013 at 12:38am@encimom
so not sending flowers to some chick is now defined as hate? just looks like you got a hard-on for christians if you ask me….and i know that you did….
also, if not sending flowers to girls is a hate crime then im fixin to do some time in the jernt
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gatorbbad
Posted on February 2, 2013 at 1:59amNo shoes.
No shirt.
No service. What if you are poor and can’t afford shoes or a shirt, do you have a law suit.
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Mojoron
Posted on February 2, 2013 at 9:14amHaving flowers sent is NOT a civil right. Any company has the right to refuse business to a customer for any reason. They can refuse to take you credit card for instance. The flower company can find a good shyster lawyer to get them out of this. I feel sorry for these girls, stupid is as stupid does. I always marvel at people who love to deny other peoples rights until they themselves need those rights.
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SecularLibertarian
Posted on February 2, 2013 at 9:47am@Mojoron – So it would be perfectly OK to refuse to serve a black, hispanic, or asian customer, right?
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1947
Posted on February 2, 2013 at 10:15amShe looks like “Chris Matthews”
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GodsLaw
Posted on February 2, 2013 at 10:43am@SecularLibertarian: If you were truly a libertarian you would not wish to force someone to act in a manner that violates their conscience. You really need to change your moniker to SecularCommunist, because only communists (or socialists, which are communist “lites”), want to force business owners to act against their beliefs. Libertarianism is about freedom. No-one is forcing this athiest to buy from this florist; there are hundreds of other florists who will be glad to accomodate her. Just leave this one florist alone and stop meddeling in his/her business; i.e., mind your own business.
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PATTY HENRY
Posted on February 2, 2013 at 11:00amFor a long time, I felt that the Libertarians were just TOO INDEPENDENT and not caring/sharing enough to be anywhere but isolated on a mountain top as hermits…but!! The more I hear from the Liberal whiners about what people MUST DO the more I think…I’m a Libertarian and I will vote Libertarian having dropped my GOP registration. I wish there was a PATRIOT’S Party that encompassed the best parts of the TEA party (Taxed Enough Already) ; that Honored GOD; that
Honored our Constitution and eschewed the idea that it was “out-dated”…it is NOT; that Honored
America and recognized it for the Miracle from God that America is. (My 5% of all people who’ve ever lived have lived in Freedom…that would be US…that is the GIFT FROM GOD).
It is insanity for someone to be able to sue someone because they didn’t want business. Had the Florist accepted these poor, pathetic lost soul’s $$ and then not delivered..it’s one thing…but to simply refuse to fill the order when there is no binding contract… That’s insanity.
SO take a lesson, Patriots, Have an excuse at the ready ! I like what one poster has said, with his
several “at-the-ready” excuses: ‘Over booked’ or ‘too costly’ that’s what we do in our company…for we recognized about 15 years ago that the Liberals were on a “we’re Victims” rampage. We turn down business without it ever being able to be called Discrimination. Discriminate This.
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Pigpen
Posted on February 2, 2013 at 11:47amYes, you are right. The Civil Rights Act will put two of these three florists out of business. You all cheered though when white, southern business owners were put out of business for refusing to serve blacks, but now that it is YOUR TURN, you are all about private property and states’ rights. Funny how that works. Why don’t you white people try MY WAY for a change? You will like yourself and get your self respect back. Don’t believe Kevin MacDonald’s thesis about what is behind the anti-religion, civil rights, etc movements? Well, let’s think within the context of this story: why did the godless SOBs only go after TWO of the THREE florists who refused to serve them? Any guesses? Any bets on how many of the three were “minority” owned? Come on, EVERYBODY BUT YOU in this world is thinking and acting racially. You go about SAYING you are a rebel, but dressing in a leather coat like EVERYBODY ELSE does NOT make you a rebel. Saying that, “Yes, I AM A RACIST, RELIGIOUS BIGOT! ANY QUESTIONS?” That is what makes a TRUE REBEL! A rebel is someone who STANDS UP FOR HIMSELF even when everybody else says that he is wrong to do it! WAKE UP!
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GodsLaw
Posted on February 2, 2013 at 12:12pm@PATTY HENRY: Truth is, that no one alive today has ever lived under the US Constitution. It was abandoned starting with Wilson (direct elections of senators), then FDR (firearms act of 1934, new (bad) deal), then Johnson (welfare state broadened), then Bush II (patriot act, DHS, TSA) and now Obrak (NDAA, Healthcare, etc,) is finishing off the last few fundamental freedoms which the Consitution enshrined.
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DieHippieDie
Posted on February 2, 2013 at 9:37pm@secularlibertarian “So it would be perfectly OK to refuse to serve a black, hispanic, or asian customer, right?”
dude….shes an atheist…not a member of what you hippies like to call a “protected class” she was discrimnated against due to her non belief…not for ay religous belief….show me in any civil rights legislation where she is covered under the law….i dare ya….
stop being a hippie
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emberlyawake
Posted on February 3, 2013 at 2:11amJesus went among the believers and non believers. You certainly won’t show God’s love by refusing to serve a young girl who knows no better. Shame on the florist for casting Christianity it this light. It comes off just as hateful as the girls willingness to sue over religious art. Neither put their belief (or non belief system) in a good light. double.fail.
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DieHippieDie
Posted on February 3, 2013 at 3:44amno…hes not discrinating against gays…..hes discriminating against “gay marriage” theres a huge difference….gays do exist….gay “marriage” doesnt no matter how many man made laws you pass….only a man and a woman may marry….this is known science backed up by trillions of years of human history….you can call an arm a leg but will remain an arm….
all this baker has to say is i only make real wedding cakes…i dont make imaginary ones….NO CAKE FOR YOU…..next
case closed
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jm_millcreek
Posted on February 3, 2013 at 12:13pm@CANADIANLADY: Thank you for bringing to light the sub-til (lol) but easily understood differences about Chicago and Bank of America and this young adult Ms.Ahlquist. This must be her 15 minutes in the spotlight and maybe a way to bilk money from a small company. If the florist chose to not do business with Ahlquist and her crew, that is fine..based on the Civil Rights Act 1964 (thanks NATEHEUPEL). If you were young enough to have lived during the 1960′s the CRA was desperately needed. People of color were treated worse that animals. But to think that someone nit-picks this law to complain about something so small, heaven help us, that’s right, God help us!!
Report this comment
YOURSENSEI
Posted on February 3, 2013 at 3:28pmMr or Ms DIEHI{{IEDIE,
this is what you must know:
. . . “this is known science backed up by trillions of years of human history”
Well, there you have it. Settled. I will give you this much, at least you’ve cyphered your way out of that whole Biblical certainty that the Earth is only 6,000 years old. Thanks to you we now know it’s trillions of years old.
Clearly I need to give home schooling another look.
It is so.
it is so.
Report this comment
Gorp
Posted on February 3, 2013 at 5:29pmI love this part: “Last Friday, the organization filed a lawsuit against Twins Florist, claiming that Marina Plowman, the business owner, denied the FFRF “full and equal access to public accommodations by refusing to fulfill a flower order on the basis of religion (non-belief), in violation of Rhode Island General Laws.”
How can it be about religion when they don’t believe in any religion? Or is atheism now considered a religion?
Report this comment
Fiznart
Posted on February 3, 2013 at 7:08pmThe article said “full and equal access to public accommodations” was violated but the customer had every right to take their business elsewhere so they still had available to them other florists stores (buick and internet) they could have bought from – no violation was done.
DieHippieDie, February 1, 2013 at 9:19pm said “but don’t try to tell me that atheism is a religion” – oh but it is a religion – religion is a belief. Atheism is a belief that there is no God. Atheists believe that there is no God. Isn’t it interesting that Government endorsing the religion of atheism?
SecularLibertarian, February 2, 2013 at 9:47am-@Mojoron said “So it would be perfectly OK to refuse to serve a black, hispanic, or asian customer, right?” Yes. Some companies even refuse to serve you if you are a Christian, a Jew or Buddhist etc. And yet most private companies are good to all people and they are the ones who’s businesses we should support.
We need to stop suing over every little item that might make one “feel bad” and start letting the “supply and demand concept” rule. If a company doesn’t treat you well take your business elsewhere – that is your right.
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DieHippieDie
Posted on February 3, 2013 at 8:31pmgood for you sensei…..you will find it best that you agree with me at all times as it will save you from migraines trying to keep up with me….did i say TRILLIONS of years of human history?…i apologize, i misspoke…i meant to say GAZILLIONS of years of human history….in all the gazillions of years of human history it has been known and scientifically proven that marriage can only be accomplished between a man and a woman…there is no hippie law that can undo that basic human truth….
there, now you dont need to go get that G.E.D. just sit here on uncles knee and ill larn ya all ya need to larn
so it is written
Report this comment
VetMike
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 12:29pmAny just system would tell her and FFRF to pound sand. But in pour uber liberal court system she will win and another private small business will go under.
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Temporal
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 12:26pmSo, when a labor union refuses buy office supplies from a non-union business, are they not exercising their right of free association?
This student elected to use her “rights” as a platform to launch an attack on Christians. Yet, they claim it’s “discrimination” when folks elect to exercise the very same rights not to associate with them.
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OldSurfRat
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 1:25pmExcellent point concerning unions
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Pnis
Posted on February 2, 2013 at 6:28pmA business can’t discriminate based on things like race, sex or religion. Unions do not fall into any of those categories. So, it’s not really an excellent point concerning unions. It’s a dumb point.
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Pondskum
Posted on February 3, 2013 at 9:53amA lack of religion isn’t a religion in itself. Just thought i’d point that out.
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Pnis
Posted on February 3, 2013 at 1:10pmPondskum, I agree atheism is NOT a religion, but legally it is granted the same protections.
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The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 12:21pmThis girl has made herself into a pariah it seems….
I can’t tell if this was her intent or not.
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The Third Archon
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 12:55pmA pariah to reactionary theists maybe–you’re an increasingly small share of the populace so if I were her it wouldn’t bother me much.
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merrypranxter
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 1:18pmi applaud her. i’d rather be a pariah for standing up for what i know to be right than loved by everyone for not having the courage to take a stand.
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runwithscissors
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 2:04pmMerry, by your standards hitler was a hero, congrats
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usedCZARsalesman
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 3:52pmMERRY…”KNOW to be right”? You must have a different definition of “know” than I do…from where I’m sitting, she was WRONG about both the non existent “separation of church and state clause” you folks seem to think was part of the Constitution, and the existence of God.
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Oldmantex
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 10:59pm@ Third – Yes we God believers are on the cusp of extinction…….
“A 2005 poll by AP/Ipsos surveyed ten countries. Of the developed nations, people in the United States were most sure of the existence of God or a higher power (2% atheist, 4% agnostic)”
WOW ……. 6 Billion people on earth and by far the majority believe in a god……where do you get this nonsense.
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Warpspeedpetey
Posted on February 2, 2013 at 11:44am@Therd
No worries. Contraception and abortion have brought the birthrate of secular people below the replacement rate. Turns out Darwin has been on our side this whole time. Enjoy oblivion. lol
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Freedomlover_US
Posted on February 2, 2013 at 2:12pmThis girl is a hero
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Brainmuffin
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 12:20pmMy atheist friends do not thee atheist activists either.
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Gorp
Posted on February 3, 2013 at 5:35pmWhat?
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wopette
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 12:16pmNow won’t this be a hoot when and if this teenager has a change of mind and heart and decides their is a God. Completely unaware that she just sued away her own right to display her faith publically.
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merrypranxter
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 1:17pmyeah, funny thing- you people think atheists are misguided and will someday “find the truth” in your god. However, the real deal is that we feel just as strongly that your belief is misguided. Chances are this girl isn’t changing her mind, hon. Religion is something you come to bc it’s insane “truths” have been nailed into your head for years, & you’re too comfortable or scared to think for yourself. Atheism comes from having actually read & thought about religion, and coming to your own conclusions through reason & logic. It’s a lot harder to go back on **** you KNOW to be true through facts and study than it is stuff you BELIEVE to be true (that doesn’t even make any sense in the real world) by default.
So yeah. i think she’ll be fine.
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TheGrtDcptn
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 1:56pm‘atheism comes from having actually read & thought about religion, and **coming to your own conclusions** through reason & logic.
Since you’re so smart, care to elaborate on why millions have been murdered by atheists…?!…
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drs1969
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 2:07pmDepending on the expert, it’s been in the hundreds of milions who have been killed in the name of Atheistic Jewish Bolshevism since 1917. Accept our way or die, then you may die, due to imcompetent Central Planning.
I’d tell you atheists to go to h*ll, but you’re already there!
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onlyasmallvoice
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 2:54pmTruth is truth whether we believe it to be truth or not…one day we will be faced with the truth both those who believe in God and those who don’t….. that day comes when we breathe our last breath. We all need to be very, very sure that what we choose to believe or not to believe is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
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Freedomlover_US
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 4:30pmYou can display your faith as publically as you want – discrimination is another thing
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Freedomlover_US
Posted on February 2, 2013 at 2:15pmAny time I’m tempted to believe in the Christian God, I read the Bible. Takes care of that real quick.
I’m just kidding – Christianity is completely ridiculous, I never think it might be real.
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PATTY HENRY
Posted on February 2, 2013 at 2:26pmDon’t you wonder sometimes why Atheists don’t even bother to try to learn about GOD? All they seem to want to do are the NEGATIVE talking points re: GOD. Take drs1969 for example:
Asking the “WHY questions” again. Here is the answer. GOD created everything. God created us. God loves us. God is Love. In order for us to truly Love GOD Back, we have to make our own decisions. In order to make our own decisions, we have to have freedom of choice. When we have freedom of choice and are then influenced by Satan (former Angel in Heaver who wanted to be GOD, was exiled here and that’s where Evil and SIN came from. Of course GOD uses all things to work together for Good for those who love Him, so Satan – while being used – has never had the upper hand. if a Person dies on this earth, we Christians know that it’s a very, very short time that we have to make our choice (short in comparison to Eternity) . In cases of mass anything (murder, storm damage etc) WE will never know HOW MANY people GOD saved because He had different plans for them – things He wanted them to learn while on earth.
IF this life were ALL THERE IS…I could go along with you, but it’s not, it’s a ‘blink of an Eye’.
HOW do you get to know GOD? All you have to do is ASK HIM to get to know Him. Seriously. Once you ‘get it’ that HE created us; HE loves us like crazy; HE is our FATHER GOD and HE has given us eternal life..we settle down and begin to learn what we need to learn.
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Locked
Posted on February 3, 2013 at 4:53pm@DRS1969
“Atheistic Jewish ”
When you write things like this, it really makes it hard to believe you have a functional brain.
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jeffersonian1776
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 12:14pmThe Constitution protects my right and your right to discriminate, but meant to chain down the beast so it may not discriminate. If you cannot be a discriminating person–you are not free!!!
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Witness1974
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 12:41pmYes, isn’t there a little thing called freedom of association? Where has that right gone?
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drs1969
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 2:11pmFree association was partially taken out by 4 Jewish, DOJ lawyers in the case Shelley vs. Kraemer(1947 or 8), under Harry Truman, that removed ‘restrictive covenants’ from land deals. This is a war they have waged sinced FDR.
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destrecht
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 12:11pmThat girl should be sued for abuse of the system.
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Freedomlover_US
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 4:31pmYea, enforcing seperation of church and state is “abuse”
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Mike76
Posted on February 2, 2013 at 1:30amHey FreedomLoser, since when is floral arranging an activity of the state? Separation is between the church and the government – private businesses can serve or refuse service to whomever they damn well choose. There is no issue of civil rights here. This is about the socially awkward kids in high school using the courts to attack the hallmarks of mainstream society because they are bitter about having to sit at the “losers” table for four years. Those are after all, the kids who grow up to be secular progressive hippie Democrats – the weird kids who spent Prom night at home. And to think….just a little backbone and some self confidence could have changed all that for you guys.
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Freedomlover_US
Posted on February 2, 2013 at 2:19pmI don’t know about you but in my high school atheists didn’t sit at the losers table (and this was a Catholic HS). Suing the school to remove a prayer banner is enforcing the the separation of religion and government. The sore losers in her community trying to ostricize her are only making themselves look foolish.
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Lt_Scrounge
Posted on February 2, 2013 at 8:57pmFreedomlover, I take it that you have never been much of a history student, nor of the Constitution. I defy you to find the phrase “Separation of Church and State” ANYWHERE in the Constitution. I could bet you a million dollars you won’t find it, but it’s a fool’s bet since it isn’t there. Let me quote you the applicable section of the First Amendment, perhaps it will enlighten you. “Congress shall make no laws respecting the establishment of religion, OR RESTRICTING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF,… ”
The First Amendment was placed into the Constitution to prevent the federal government from trying to establish a national religion as had happened in England. Many of the states had recognized religions as they were founded as religious colonies.
Any law that requires anyone to do anything that they find religiously repulsive is in violation of the section of the First Amendment that prevents Congress from restricting the free exercise of religion. This principle has been fought out in court many times, and the laws always lose. Why do you think certain religious sects are exempt from selective service, social security and mandatory vaccination laws? Oh, you didn’t know about that did you?
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Ghandi was a Republican
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 12:06pmShe is seeking rights granted by the State- What a loser.
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lainpa
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 12:05pmI thougt this might be funny – go ahead and send the flowers with a card that says “God Bless you!” That would really mess with them!
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Priscilla King
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 12:11pmI like it. Better than what I was going to post!
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Anonymous T. Irrelevant
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 12:00pmAny business has the right to refuse service to anyone. You can’t force a business to serve someone they choose not to. Bunch of babies, just go with a different florist.
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SecularLibertarian
Posted on February 2, 2013 at 9:44amI guess it would be perfectly ok to refuse to deliver flowers to someone black, asian, or hispanic in the year 2013, right?
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IslandAtheist
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 12:00pmThe whole town should be sued for the way they treated this child.
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Dan_o
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 12:24pmGood idea. Let everybody sue everybody because they don’t like what they believe, look like, smell like, etc. Your vision of the world makes me sad.
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justlyso
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 12:26pmSo you worship the state and if the state should become tyrannical and turn on atheists at some point? Think about it stupid.
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Witness1974
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 12:44pmI wholeheartedly agree. Every time someone gets their wittle feelwings hurt they should be able to sue, ’cause mean people shouldn’t be able to keep their own money.
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tradcatholicgirl
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 2:29pmThis “child” got into the fray on her own. She chose to make a public and political stand for what she believes in. If people in her community do not agree with what she did, then she needs to be able to handle that consequence. What was her consequence again?
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tootsie roll
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 7:38pm@islandatheist
Remember your day of honor will be up for celebration two months from today on APRIL 1ST
Have a good day and may God grant you back ten fold what you sow. God bless you
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Ghandi was a Republican
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 11:58am“No shirt, No soul, no service” And the State cannot get involved, period.
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Dan_o
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 1:38pmAbsolutely. An atheist will never admit it, but that’s what the “separation” clause really says.
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wellright
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 2:10pmActually, DAN, there is no ‘separation clause” in the Constitution. But- there is a “free exercise clause” that is almost universally ignored.
Christians need to become as aggressive and militant as atheists Every time we are denied our right to freely exercise our religious is prohibited. and that language IS in the Constitution.
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wellright
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 2:25pmMan I wish there was an edit in this thing I should have said
Christians need to become as aggressive and militant as atheists, and sue every time we are denied our right to freely exercise our religious freedom; and that language IS in the Constitution.
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Dan_o
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 6:16pmWellright, we are in agreement. The only time the words separation were used is in a separate writing by Thomas Jefferson. The constitution clearly says Gov’t will not establish or restrict the freedom to practice religion. That is why I put separation in quotes.
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Warpspeedpetey
Posted on February 2, 2013 at 11:57am@Wellwright
Absolutely. We should be in their face. En Masse. Most atheists are just useful dupes ignorant of basic philosophy and logic. They are just parroting arguments that they aren’t intellectually sophisticated enough to understand. There are those others though that Hate G-d and Christians. They murdered around a 100 million people in the last century. These people are extremely dangerous and must be opposed by any all means.
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Sharon Rose
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 11:57amWell isn’t she just the little darling? NOT
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TallMom
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 11:55amWhat a whiny bunch of crybabies. They have to pick a fight with anyone and everyone that doesn’t agree with them.
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Dan_o
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 2:01pmYep, just like every other liberal. They divide and subdivide along every imaginable category and then want every minority to rule the day. It’s insanity.
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00100111
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 11:55amDear atheist losers. Learn this phrase: “We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason at any time.” Learn it, live it, love it. Business owners are not obligated to serve you because you feel special. Maybe your parents shouldn’t have fostered that idea that “You’re unique and special” all the time, you’d have a more realistic view of life.
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The Third Archon
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 12:57pmSOMEONE doesn’t know about public accommodations law. XD
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merrypranxter
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 1:21pma more realistic view of life? says the guy that believes in a magic man in the sky, that made people from dirt, talking snakes handing out fruit, that a virgin can have a baby, that a man can die and come back to life, and that all the answers to life come in the form of a really old book written by neolithic tribesmen. That’s cute.
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runwithscissors
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 2:03pmFor those of you who think the government has the right to force people to serve others, you would all make very nice compliant slaves. Congrats!
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wellright
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 3:11pmOh merryxter; I can tell that you are a man of science. you believe only what can be seen and touched. Good for you hang on to that. I’m sure you were really paying attention to all the fuss over the Mayan calender, how accurate it was and all. And how those pyramids align with 3 celestial events 5000 years before they occurred , science , man, cool. And those 3 alignments couldn’t have been coincidence, had to be planned. and I’ll bet you buy that ..I do also.
Where credibility is stretched is when you say that the creation of human life(135 trillion more accidental alignments) is coincidence’ happy accidents occurring trillions and trillions of times. but you’ll buy that ,huh.
Actually, the BIG BANG theory is close. God said”let it be” and BANG it was. Magic man in the sky, talking snakes and all.
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PATTY HENRY
Posted on February 2, 2013 at 2:47pm@ MERRYPRANXTER; YO MERRY! It’s stupid to believe in the Guy in the Sky…but you don’t have a thought or care in the world about being on a round ball whirling through space, heated by another round ball and cooled by yet another one…and all the water and the people on earth…they never fall off…that’s okay with you, right?
Some time you people fracture me!!! You honestly think you have the brain power (I don’t but I know it) to ascertain how everything works… you are as smart as it gets, right? Not even close. But you have all the answers right? Not even Close. I choose to believe in LOVE – GOD is LOVE. I choose to believe what my heart and soul (remember that? soul isn’t needed to procreate or be born from an explosion) ..what I believe in my heart and soul is that we were created and the more I learn, the more I study that Bible you like to ridicule, the more Heaven opens up and the greater my Joy and Peace even in the midst of your sorry excuse for a world now…now that you guys, like ungrateful brats, have smeared yourselves all over. It matters not. GOD matters. One day you’ll know that.
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DZ-015
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 11:55amNotice the pleadings. More evidence that atheism is a religion.
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Zipit
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 11:54amATHIEST’S SUE! WAH! Wah, wah waaaaaaaah!
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UseTP2wipe
Posted on February 2, 2013 at 4:32amThere’s a war on Christmas! Wah! Wah!
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Al J Zira
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 11:52amI believe that a business owner has a right to refuse service. Suing on the grounds of: “full and equal access to public accommodations” does not apply to a privately owned business as much as a publicly owned service.
Having said that, FFRF will win the lawsuit because they will establish that the sole reason they were denied service was because of a religious discrimination since the owner offered no other reason. The liberal courts will side with the FFRF again and award them damages. It’s a disgrace.
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charliesouth
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 12:01pmAs a non beliver, while I don’t like the idea of them refusing service, I do agree it is well within their right as an independent store to refuse service and should not be subject for lawsuit.
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Ghandi was a Republican
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 12:01pmThe business could also add a surcharge, an additional delivery or pickup charge. They can do whatever they want. All atheists can do is boycott. Most would not. A True atheist would not care. These here are “Alinsky-atheists” Fraudulent and obsessed instigators.
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destrecht
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 12:13pmIf that ends up with them being sued on religious grounds, then they will have to show that atheism is in fact a religion. This may be a win win situation. If they lose, they lose. If they win, atheism will be declared a religion in court.
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roostercogburn
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 12:29pmBut if the system worked as designed, how could she win, she claims to not believe in God, or religion, so how could she win her cased based on religious descrimanation.. Have to love those tards,funny how they actually believe there is a right to freedom of religion.
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naughtycal
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 12:29pmThe business could easily say they don’t support communism and refuse to serve anyone represented by the ACLU it was founde by communist and is one of strongest supporter of communism in America
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The Third Archon
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 1:02pm“Suing on the grounds of: “full and equal access to public accommodations” does not apply to a privately owned business as much as a publicly owned service.”
No, that’s actually not how the law is formulated. It doesn’t matter whether the business is “privately” owned or “publicly traded,” or really ANYTHING to do with the business’ ownership structure. It has much more to do with the kind of business it is. Whether or not florists are/will be considered a “public accommodation” I do not know, but hotels are and many of them a privately owned businesses, no more public than any other business. The reason hotels (among other things) fall under the law is because they provide a service essential to many classes of people, such as (for example) those engaged in interstate commerce business trips.
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Mil-Dot
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 11:52amThey can sue all they want. A business has the right to refuse to do transactions with anybody they choose. As far as this little cretin is concerned, she is despicable. She will not be laughing forever. She will pay for her treachery.
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SovereignSoul
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 3:37pmFactually incorrect sir,
The Federal Civil Rights Act guarantees all people the right to “full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin.”
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Misha
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 11:51amAs an independent business owner, this woman has every right to accept or refuse anyone’s business on any grounds. It’s HER company. Go elsewhere. Nope, not with these freaks. If they don’t get their way, they pitch a fit, and file a lawsuit. Absurd. I’d counter sue for ******* me off.
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HOOT_OWL
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 11:50amYeah ,This Business was ‘pushing their faith’ on Atheist. Isn’t that what they always complaining about..? The atheist lies and hypocrisy know No-Limits.
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COFemale
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 11:50amSorry little Jessica’s civil rights were not violated. She ain’t black. She is white, whites have no civil rights.
Business owners have the right to refuse anyone service. I do believe the florist knew about the story. I find it hard to believe she didn’t, but even so she still has the right not to fulfill the request.
FFRF are bullies and we must eliminate bullies. If your only way to get people to do your biding is to sue them, you all have some serious mental issues and perhaps someone should commit them as they are a danger to themselves.
FFRF also needs to get the stick out of their _____________ and leave people alone. No one elected you or appointed you King or Queen over the United States people. I can’t wait until this group is castrated down to performing trash duty, if they are lucky.
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00100111
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 11:56am“She is white, whites have no civil rights.”
That pretty much sums it up right there.
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destrecht
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 12:14pmNot only that, but unlike race, she has a choice to be an atheist or not.
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Carrie3570
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 11:40amIs Plowman right to assume that she has the right, as a business owner, to decline service or is the FFRF’s discrimination case stronger?
Yes, as a business owner, she has the right to deny service to anyone for any reason.
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Advection
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 11:52amCorrect. Customer cannot force a business to serve them.
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Fubared
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 11:53amShe is right. But the vultures also have a “right” to deplete her operating capitol through frivolous suits until deemed otherwise. Hope she is getting decent pro bono advice from a local land shark not out for media attention. It is a rarity. Being a woman, Allred is surely blowing her phone up over this….
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SlaveToTruth
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 11:55amAny reason but a proscribed reason. I think it is an overreach of the commerce clause but that is why businesses can’t engage in racial discrimination. So the owner can’t refuse to service atheists because they are atheists but she could discriminate against this particular woman if it was for any allowed reason. The kid seemed like a bit of jerk to me, so she could refuse to serve here because she is a jerk.
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SovereignSoul
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 3:42pmThe florist didn’t refuse service to the girl and she is not part of the lawsuit. The FFRF was the paying customer and they are the party suing the florist. So, lay off the child, people.
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naughtycal
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 11:39amAny business can refuse to serve a customer if the action violates their Constitutional rights. In other words no one can force a christian oriented business owner to support an athiest either financially or spiritually. IT’S AGAINST HIS RELIGION
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Nevermind
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 11:56amNaughtycal
It isnt a “christian businss” it is a florist. What they did was wrong . You cannot deny serives based on sex , religion , race according to the civil rights act which is law . But facts and laws are hard to folks on the right when they dont follow their belief so your post doesnt surprise me. I just feel sad for you
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wopette
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 12:14pmActually you are wrong Nevermind..What you are speaking of is state affairs..Not a privately owned business. This florist is not a taxpayer paid public servant refusing service. She has every right to refuse anyone service, if she doesn’t want their money, they can take it elsewhere.
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destrecht
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 12:17pmIf the owner is a christian, it’s a christian business. She’s forcing the state to violate his 1st amendment rights.
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roostercogburn
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 12:31pmBut since she doesn’t believe in religion or God, how could she use that as a basis for her case, she wasn’t descriminated against because of her religion, she said she didnt believe in it.. Funny she probably thinks she has the right of freedom from religion.
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NateHeupel
Posted on February 1, 2013 at 1:03pm“You cannot deny services based on sex , religion , race according to the civil rights act which is law.”
I’m going to ask you a question, but I bet the answer is “no”. Have you ever READ the Civil Rights Act of 1964? Not the Wikipedia entry, I’m talking about the actual text. It’s pretty clear that FFRF President Annie Laurie Gaylor hasn’t done so. The part you’re likely referring to is Title II. That section applies to “full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, and privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, as defined in this section, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin.” The section goes on to define places of public accommodation as being hotels, motels, Holiday Inns, restaurants, movie theaters, or places in the same building as the aforementioned types of facilities that purport to serve the patrons of those facilities.
tl;dr version: If it doesn’t house people, feed people, show movies/public entertainment, or service the people who are at those facilities while being in the same building…it’s NOT COVERED. Leave it to someone on the left to have not actually read the Civil Rights Act of 1964…but lecture about it like they wrote it.
That said, I can tell you EXACTLY why this florist didn’t deliver for the FFRF: she didn’t want to choose sides. The only way to win that game is not to play.
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