Editor’s note: The 26.1 million rounds of ammo as originally reported was a miscalculation. We’ve updated this story to reflect the correct numbers and to explain the miscalculation.
On a semi-private website is a solicitation by the Department of Homeland Security for a total of 240,000 rounds of ammunition, which it is seeking to purchase from a small business. Although this might seem like a lot, sources tell us it is not out of the ordinary.
Going through the website FedBid, DHS’ Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Arteia, New Mexico, is putting out a call for the training ammunition through competitive bids, which have to be at least $10, according to the post. Here’s a breakdown of what it wants:
(Image: FedBid screenshot)
The FLETC in New Mexico includes programs for Border Patrol, TSA and Indian Affairs. Specialized programs like Firearms Instructor Training Program and Defensive Tactics Instructor Training Program are also conducted at the Artesia facility.
Mike Piccione for The Daily Caller pointed out that the 26.1 million rounds that was being reported was a miscalculation due to misinterpreting that the delivery was to be priced per 1,000 rounds. Here are Piccione’s calculations:
1. .40 cal. 100 quantities of a 1,000 round unit = 100,000 rounds
2. 9mm 115 grain, 100 quantities of a 1,000 round unit = 100,000 rounds
3. 9mm 124 grain ball, 40 quantities of a 1,000 round unit = 40,000 rounds
Total = 240,000 rounds
The website FedBid is an online marketplace where federal, state and local governments, as well as businesses, can buy items or services. According to a profile about FedBiz owner Ali Saadat in the Washington Business Journal, the website conducted $1.4 billion worth of federal transactions in 2012.
Saadat said the concept for FedBid is changing how people in the industry would traditionally seek out and respond to business, which often includes sending requests for proposals or requests for quotes.
“That time is gone. It all happens on the Internet and in a transparent way,” Saadat told the Washington Business Journal.
Going through FedBid’s home page, to try and search for requests for goods or services, it appears that one has to sign up to become a member as a buyer or seller in order to view the marketplace pages.
As for the ammunition being solicited by DHS with bids ending Feb. 11, here are a few examples to put the amount into perspective:
- In 2012, defense contractor AKT was awarded a five-year contract to provide 450 million rounds (max) to DHS.
- The government sought 175 million rounds of .223 caliber rifle ammo in 2012 as well.
- Maj. Gen. Buford C. Blount III said in 2004 testimony to the Tactical Air and Land Forces Subcommittee of the Committee on Arms Services that soldiers used 72 million rounds in Iraq in 2003 and that their expenditure at the time was 5.5 million rounds per month.
At the time of ATK’s contract award for 450 million rounds last spring, TheBlaze’s Tiffany Gabbay wrote that while this might seem like a lot of ammo, it wasn’t unusual. Gabbay wrote gun experts saying that it was part of a practice by such agencies to spend any budget surplus on useful items before the end of the fiscal year. That could be what is going on with this latest request for ammo but we don’t know for sure.
Former Navy SEAL Brandon Webb, who runs the website SOFREP (the Special Operations Forces Report) told us in an email that everything on the list looks “perfectly normal” to him.
“It’s a training center for DHS so there going to need a lot, I mean a LOT, of ammo,” Webb wrote in an email. “Figure one day a guy will shoot through 500-1000 rounds a piece and it starts to add up.”
Featured image via Shutterstock.com.
(H/T: Drudge Report, InfoWars)
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Comments (268)
rabblechat
Feb. 8, 2013 at 4:10pmI’ve attempted to find out how many people are employed by the DHS; I’ve seen as low as 50,000 and as high as 225,000.
Lets use 225,000 to be conservative. They have already bought 1.6 BILLION rounds, and are set to buy another 450 MILLION. That will give them over 2 BILLION rounds give or take a few million rounds….
So divide 2 Billion by 225,000 and you end up with nearly 9,000 rounds per DHS employee!
That is assuming every single DHS employee is issued a weapon; cooks, clerks, janitors, etc.
OK assuming everyone at the DHS is armed, and has 9,000 rounds to “train with”
lets look at the training they would get.
IF you go to TDIohio, which is an internationally known weapons training school, you could take all 6 levels of their handgun training, all 3 levels of the tactical rifle training, the precision rifle training and have ammo to spare! I can guarantee you, 99% of our military doesn’t even get this much trigger time and advanced training!
I’m not buying the training excuse…
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DADDYGETZ
Feb. 8, 2013 at 3:42pmPoint blank … this is ALL Hollow Point ammo …. I saw the ” excuse” before that they want them to practice with what they carry … Hollow Point is against the Geneva Convention and can’t be used outside this country and NOBODY uses the more expensive hollow point for practice… well maybe they do since it’s our money … The purchases do not correlate with the quantity used for training. Better wake up people… this is the governments way of heavily beefing up their storage of ammo and at the same time restricting what is available for purchase. This puts a halt to alot of ammo as these monster purchases … 9mm & .40S&W all use the same primers and powder. This puts such a backlog on the manufacturers and government orders must be filled before all other orders, that it is their way of restricting what is available for the public. I live outside a little small town and we have a small shop that sells ammo along with paint guns. They had to “hold” their last 400 rounds of .223 for the police department in the even smaller little town next to us for a purchase. Local police departments are having trouble getting ammunition… This keeps up you will not only have ammo to protect yourselves but the police department won’t have ammo to protect you either.
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D.A.Veteran
Feb. 8, 2013 at 2:10pmCall it like it is. Our wonderful country is being dismantled. Our 1st, 2nd and 5th Amendments are being questioned. Even this president stated our U.S. Constitution is outdated for today’s society. Hell, I heard that crap from liberals back when I was in grade school in the 1970s. Our government class debated that our constitution is the best in the world and its rock solid. Even in college, we debated and still our Constitution is the best in the world. But, when a political movement goes rogue and is backed by misinformed idiots and others with their heads in the sand, we stand a chance to repeat a history our parents and grandparents fought to never happen again. Yet, today, I feel a sense of uneasiness all of the time, like something horrible is coming. The same feeling during a tornado or when deploying to war. Its a police state under a Marxist government.
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TheMidnightWriter
Feb. 8, 2013 at 1:46pmThe ammunition ordered was HOLLOW POINT!!! No one uses hollow point for target practice. It’s cheaper to by FMJ. Hollow point is designed to expand on impact. It is intended to do maximum damage to people or animals. If this huge order was for FMJ ammo, maybe I could buy the explanation that it is for practice at the range.
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wyobuck
Feb. 8, 2013 at 1:23pmI used to listen to GB years ago before he was even on FNC, then on FNC, but he seemed to enjoy the limelight too much and began to think he was more of a movie star. I really don’t care for all the glitter he has in his show now. Why does he need an oval office in his studio? He has become a Drama Queen in it for the $$. Anyway when he said we should just peacefully refuse to hand over our guns and be arrested, because they won’t have room for all of us, that was it for me. You wanna bet they won’t have room for us, plenty of room 6 feet under or in a furnace. Then he said “oh there are no FEMA camps, and his constant assault on Alex Jones is pathetic. I don’t see GB out on the battle field protesting, no he sits in his fancy studio now with Laurel and Hardy making fun of anyone who questions his reports. Don’t waste your time with him anymore, he has been bought and paid for!
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BookMDanno
Feb. 8, 2013 at 12:59pmWow! I’m blown away by some of the comments here. This is a marketplace of info; not every story, every quote, every headline is going to rock your world. Some of you act like you should come here and go mentally off-line. What gives with that? Then you heap blame on Beck like he’s omnipresent & trying to control your thought; he’s the FIRST guy who says check it out yourself, think for yourself, trust no one…do you not hear him? It’s a MARKETPLACE for cryin’ out loud. Can you handle that?
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Liarsandthieves
Feb. 8, 2013 at 11:44amOh no! Here come the stormtroopers! Use your head people. Most LEOs and military are conservative and pro second amendment. You think they are just going to sell their souls and come take your weapons? Large ammo orders are nothing out of the ordinary. 99% will be burned through on the gun range.
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Mjolner
Feb. 8, 2013 at 11:00amI’m not normally one to look for conspiracies, BUT let’s look at what’s happening. Within the last year, government agencies have purchased almost 600 million rounds of ammunition while at the same time severely limiting our rights, driving up government spending to the point where our credit rating has been downgraded, spreading our military way to thin around the world and pushing a healthcare law down our throats that will destroy the healthcare system in this country along with the economy. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that the powers that be are pushing hard for the “bottom up, top down turn everything inside out” change. They realized that they can’t get our guns without a major fight so now they are buying all the ammunition. You would have a hard time convincing me that bobo’s minions haven’t calculated the production capacity of the ammunition manufacturers and ordered that exact amount. Funny how when the radical left started really pushing their agenda hard all the ammo dried up isn’t it? Too many damn coincidences for me!
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ltb
Feb. 8, 2013 at 10:43amI wonder how many Americans realize that one of the first things Obama did after being elected in 2009 was to have DHS send a memo to law enforcement agencies, which described “typical te…rrorists” as being Constitutional “fanatics.” The memo didn’t mention Muslims and was entitled, “Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment.” I also wonder how many Americans realize that the DHS ordered 1.5 billion rounds of ammunition last year. That’s 5 bullets for every American and the DHS is forbidden by the Geneva Convention from using those bullets to kill non-Americans.
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AlleyTrotter
Feb. 8, 2013 at 10:33am“Figure one day a guy will shoot through 500-1000 rounds a piece and it starts to add up.”
As a combat veteran this is total nonsense. You qualify with 3 rounds if all three are in the little castle, you are done for the day. During final qualification they use popup targets which number between 30 to 50 pops. One shot each. During practice you get one magazine 18 rounds period. I my self was perfect with the M-14 and had all but three targets on the M-16. Three never came up.
To think that shooters are issued a thousand rounds / day for practice is nonsense. This guy could not be a seal unless it’s one that lives in the ocean, not on a military base.
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gsheff
Feb. 8, 2013 at 10:15amAdd your comments
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woodyee
Feb. 8, 2013 at 9:49am“A Navy Seal ‘explains’ why this is normal.”
What the h3!! are you talking about? We didn’t HAVE a DHS ten years ago! Now, this government funded paramilitary group is armed to the teeth! On Our Soil! WHY?
We didn’t have a TAS ten years ago – why is IT still in existence? Now, THIS government funded paramilitary group is armed to the teeth, on our soil!
LOOK AT THE NUMBERS!!! 450 million rounds ordered by DHS, yet only 72 million rounds used in the middle of a war against the Iraqi’s!!!
You can pour SEAL juice all over this story and still not paint a pretty picture!
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TADTAD
Feb. 8, 2013 at 9:31amThe HD Rolling Thunder tour in D.C. Memorial Day weekend ((900,000 participants) would be a great way to show 2nd Amendment support with a rally. Tell your buddies. (If we make it that far without what’s coming.)
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JoeinNC
Feb. 8, 2013 at 9:08amThere is a lesson here. When ammo is available buy all you can afford, there is no such thing as too much.
The Iraq war round count is not out of line we did something close to that in VN. Automatic weapons consume a lot of ammo. The marksmanship of the average GI sucks.
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Bohump
Feb. 8, 2013 at 8:24amLet them take your Gun’s Away, .. And You Know why !
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media-bias-steals-elections
Feb. 8, 2013 at 6:10amhttp://www.examiner.com/article/dhs-adds-21-6-million-rounds-of-ammo-to-its-nearly-2-billion-round-stockpile
Left out of the story is the question: Is it normal for the US Government to stock pile 2 billion rounds of ammunition not designated for military use?
Regulators for decades have been mandating that more citizens buy increasing types of insurance policies – with no restrictions on exclusions for terrorism, acts of war, etc? This might be ok the first decade after WWII, but in a world where the best law enforcement agencies are getting exploding requests to deal with hacking and other white crime, how much attention to you honestly think they could dedicate to either criminals or terrorists using that legal loop hole for insurance to not only accomplish their political goals outside of legal procesess, but make a buck in the process?
Forcing insurance companies to cover acts of terrorism and war would accomplish an important milestone, an incentive to hire private security companies that will help mitigate or prevent the loss of insurance funds from acts of despiration either from members of Congress willing to stuff bricks of cash in their freezers (they don’t all do that, making a point?) to clever Islamic investment schemes using Chinese or other foreign proxies?
Americans need to stop being shocked by the media, and put money on the sidelines to combat chaos not after the fact, but hire people to prevent it?
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allen0617
Feb. 8, 2013 at 5:28amSomething wrong here! Read the General Buy Information.
Buy Discription Ammunition (OK)
Category 13- Ammunition and Explosives
Sub-Category 1310- Ammunition over 30mm upto 75mm
Why such large bullets? And these don’t explane why the shortage of ammo for 22′s or the 9mm or 5.56. Strange
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rabblechat
Feb. 8, 2013 at 4:24pmManufactures can only produce so much ammo. If they have an order for a gazillion .40 cal hollow points for .gov, then they set the line up to produce .40 not .22 long rifle.
the 450 Million order mentioned is a 5 year contract which works out to be 90 Million rounds per year, which is 120% of the ammo we expended in Iraq back in 03 which was the year with the heaviest fighting.
So this ONE agency has ordered more ammo per year than our ENTIRE military used during the heaviest year of fighting in Iraq. Add that to the huge orders of the other XYZ government agencies, police departments not to mention out military, its easy to see why they cannot produce anything for the civilian market.
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SwampFoxHiggy
Feb. 8, 2013 at 4:18amwho in the blue h3ll trains with jacketed hollow points?????
I mean seriously, when you go to buy ammunition, the full metal jacket rounds say “RANGE/TARGET AMMUNITION” right on the box in big bold letters!!!!!! why the h3ll do they need all these hollow points?? it certainly isn’t used for training purposes.
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Tretka
Feb. 8, 2013 at 2:24amOh! Forgot to say…remember 2010-2011 when Mountain House stopped regular distribution to produce for the government? They stated what they were doing on their front page. That was nearly a year of little or no supply to produce for them. Just saying…WHY?
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Tretka
Feb. 8, 2013 at 2:22amBlaze…I am sorry, if you watch where all this weaponry is going..it’s not normal. I respect and honor our Seals…but seriously can you please do more homework over a longer period of time. Follow the money…
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VanishingFreedom
Feb. 8, 2013 at 12:56amCabela’s today, no primers, no brass to speak of, shelves are empty, and
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/02/foghorn/list-of-proposed-california-gun-control-measures-500-round-max-no-grandfathering-no-detachable-mags-mandatory-license/
but DHS will get theirs…
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pahrumper
Feb. 7, 2013 at 10:38pmObummer is building his own “SS” loyal only to him,,,,,,,,,,how is that for the USA and are these Hollow Points rounds?
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josephcarlson31
Feb. 7, 2013 at 10:26pmDon’t believe it. They ordered the rounds for us. This story broke months ago and now they are trying to back peddle it. 450 million rounds. just think about how big that number is for a couple seconds. How could they justify that to their superiors. surplus or not.
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calmandcents
Feb. 7, 2013 at 10:24pmThe only rational response from any ammo manufacturer should be “We don’t sell guns or ammo to the government. You are too irresponsible!”
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ledbythnose
Feb. 7, 2013 at 9:57pmA wise man would prepare his Family and his Property for War in these days. Only a Fool couldn’t see what is happening right before our eyes. Be vigilant and be smart. They will bring the fight to us. WE will finish it. There are 326 million of us and 535 of them. They should fear us with all that is within them. Once the Dollar is worthless , they won’t be able to pay the Military to fight us and they will turn on them and join us. Look at what just happened in Egypt. Just Sayin.
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