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Are Teachers Unions a Drag on U.S. Schools? Here’s What One Prof. Had To Say About It

Feb. 11, 2013 8:50pm
Stanford Professor Terry Moe Argues That Teachers Unions Are Preventing Improvements From Being Made to U.S. Schools

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“We talk endlessly about improving public schools. So what’s standing in the way?” asks the following video from Prager Univeristy.

Indeed, even after all the money, the rhetoric, and failed initiatives by U.S. politicians, it doesn’t seem like things are improving for our schools. In fact, it’s seems like just the opposite.

So what’s the deal? What’s holding us back? According to Stanford Professor Terry Moe, it’s the teachers unions.

“[T]he teachers unions are by far the most powerful groups in American education,” says Moe. “More than that, they are special interest groups, which means that they use their power to promote the special interests — the job interests — of their members.”

“They are not in the business of representing the interests of children, and no one should expect them to do that,” he adds. “The purpose of a union is to represent the job interests of its members — and these interests are simply not the same as the interests of children.”

What methods do these groups use to go about pursuing their own self-interest?

“The first is through collective bargaining, which takes place in local school districts,” he explains. “Through collective bargaining, the unions are able to win restrictive work rules, written into legally binding contracts that specify how the schools must be organized.”

The second method, he explains, is through their enormous political influence.

“[T]hey simply have far more clout than any other education groups, by many orders of magnitude. They have over four million members, they’re top contributors to political campaigns, they have armies of activists in the electoral trenches, they have lobbying organizations in all fifty states, and much more,” he explains.

“They have used this political clout to block or substantially weaken major reforms,” he adds.

Moe concludes by stressing that unless the U.S. addresses its union problem, it will never fix its education problem:

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Comments (101)

1 2 3
  • JUSTANOTHEROPINION
    Posted on February 11, 2013 at 11:58pm

    collective bargaining = collective extortion

    Report this comment

    JUSTANOTHEROPINION  
    • mikem1969
      Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:57am

      You said it, and teachers unions are as corrupt as the come. They keep lousy teachers employed when they should be fired.

      Report this comment

      mikem1969  
    • searcher619
      Posted on February 12, 2013 at 11:56am

      Exactly. I have never been part of a union yet had no trouble negotiating a good salary for myself. Why can’t teachers do the same? My experience in the It industry and my skills have always helped me get paid more than most of my co-workers. This is how it should be. your pay should be based on your value to the company you work for. If you can be easily replaced then you really can’t expect to make top dollar. The last place I worked for was a Jewish private school. Every morning before I would start dealing with whatever tech issues were waiting for that day i would sit and chat with a few of the office people. It was always interesting to hear how they went about hiring new teachers and how they selected them. It was usually a bidding war between the school I worked for and the other private schools in the area over the best teachers. Once hired teachers were expected to perform and they were evaluated regularly. Those who started dropping the ball were let go and new teachers would be hired to replace them for the following year. there was a standard that ALL teachers were expected to meet. But what I found especially interesting was that even the administrative staff taught classes. All the way up to the school principal. Everyone contributed the the education of the students. This is how ALL schools should be run.

      Report this comment

      searcher619  
  • denkat56
    Posted on February 11, 2013 at 11:50pm

    The teachers union, is communism incarnate. According to union officials the teachers are always right no matter what. Look at what they did with gov. Walker took the kids out of school and had them protest during school hours. The teachers get paid enough, their health benefits are better than most. And their payments are lower.

    Report this comment

    denkat56  
    • goofyfoot
      Posted on February 12, 2013 at 12:33am

      I am a school teacher. After working 15+ years in the computer industry, the company for which I worked, sold the division I worked in and shipped all the jobs to Manila. A teaching job landed in my lap teaching exactly what I had been doing for the past 15 years. I tried getting a job at other companies doing similar jobs but the economy dried up the good pay, and other countries got the jobs.
      I was planning on going into teaching before the layoff… I had enough stock options to payoff my house… but not enough to pay the taxes on the stock sale. Then the stock market crashed… so much for paying off my house… and my retirement. I have a BSEET(Electronics Engineering Technology) and a MAED(Curiculum and Instruction).

      Believe me when I say that most teachers do NOT get paid enough. I am NOT a member of any teacher unions and will never be. They are corrupt.

      I agree, get rid of the union officers and special interest lobbyists, and political payoffs, hell, get rid of the unions and let the teachers be hired on qualifications, not a contract written by people who have not idea how and what should be taught in schools. Let the businesses, communities, and the teachers work it out and students will graduate with the knowledge, critical thinking, and problem solving skills needed to acquire a good job and a great career.

      Report this comment

      goofyfoot  
    • naughtycal
      Posted on February 12, 2013 at 8:27am

      Goofy,
      Teachers get paid too much especially grade school teachers who teach things every child could learn from thier parents. By the time I started 1st grade I was reading writing and doing basic math at couple years ahead at a 4th grade level. My dad who was a CNP,and an accountant taught me those things on days off and after work hours. My uncles taught me auto mechanics,small engine repair,home repairs,and basic wood working. All I ever had to do was ask to them if I could help.
      Fact is schools are nothing more than government day camps to watch children so their parents can get jobs and pay taxes. And we are now are starting to see the results of government being the primary care givers.

      Report this comment

      naughtycal  
    • MR_B
      Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:04am

      Thank you Goofy, I too am a teacher and “hate” unions. But everyone thinks that we are sooo well paid and that we have such a golden benefits package. They could not be more wrong.

      Report this comment

      MR_B  
    • JRook
      Posted on February 12, 2013 at 11:05am

      Ok there are teachers unions in the majority of school districts in the US. While the inner city unions may get more attention because of cities economic and social difficulties they do not represent the majority. There are teachers unions in the top performing districts in the US. The notion that a teacher, like any other worker would be more or less productive, more or less deserving of a living wage because they are in a union is at best simplistic. And the notion that workers should not have equal influence on politics that wealthy individuals or corporations have is as undemocratic as you can be. Take the time to actually research the working conditions during the Robber Baron era and make your case why unions have not significantly improved the working conditions, wages and benefits for all workers. And to levels that are fair and justified. As it is the workers who generate the real value in any company. The fact that short sited economic policies since the 1980′s has reduced real wages in the US for most workers is not in and of itself a reason why good teachers should except less money. Perhaps policies that did not put us in a race to the bottom in wages for short term market performance or slightly better ROI should be considered. As it is clear that the 2 most damaging issues for the US economy is the decline in real wages and concentration of wealth.

      Report this comment

      JRook  
    • searcher619
      Posted on February 12, 2013 at 12:08pm

      JRook & Goof:

      Each teacher should be paid based on their performance. If I remember right DC offered to pay their teachers near six figure salaries if the unions would give up things like tenure and making it easier to get rid of bad teachers. Guess what the unions said? They said no. No teacher should be paid well if they do a poor job of educating their kids. If a hand full of kids are doing poorly it could mean a bad student and/or lack of parental participation in the education of the kids. but when MANY of your students are doing poorly it means you don’t know what you are doing and have no business in a classroom.

      Report this comment

      searcher619  
  • noslave
    Posted on February 11, 2013 at 11:35pm

    BUT ACCORDING TO OBAMMY??the teachers ,fire,police,are the only ones deserving a job??everything addressing the economy??calls for hiring more teachers,fire,police??when makeing spending cuts the only ones to suffer will be teachers,fire,police??are all democrats myoptic idiots??theres more folks on earth than these three groups??6 trillion going on 7 trillion pissed away didn’t make a rats azz amount of CHANGE IN ANYTHING??

    Report this comment

    noslave  
  • captainbars
    Posted on February 11, 2013 at 10:38pm

    When my son was growing up, I was a single parent, working in a factory; I only had enough energy left on the weekend to take my son to a movie and meal. When he was in Jr high, he’d come home telling me about one of his teachers who spent class time complaining about his pay, and the guy told the students how much he made. I worked my butt off and this teacher made 3 times more than me. I said; “You tell that guy I’ll trade places with him any day!” I guess he was fishing for sympathy but he quit whining. In AR, each year before school started, all the teachers went on strike for more pay, and each year, the governor caved to their demands, and school started late. I hate unions, they’re all a bunch of bullies.

    Report this comment

    captainbars  
  • firman
    Posted on February 11, 2013 at 10:11pm

    Tell us something we don’t already know.

    Report this comment

    firman  
  • SunTzuYou
    Posted on February 11, 2013 at 10:02pm

    total drag on the economy as well

    Report this comment

    SunTzuYou  
  • neverending
    Posted on February 11, 2013 at 9:59pm

    The unions have been destroying the education system for some time now but under the commie and his department of indoctrination it is happening at a much faster pace. Our children are truly left behind while that whole corrupt bunch line their pockets time and time again. Commie arne dunce is the worst of the worst – not enough control yet so he wants to start kids at the age of 3 attending school, increase the school days and length of the day – he wants to make sure he gets them early.

    Report this comment

    neverending  
    • steve61lindsey
      Posted on February 11, 2013 at 10:18pm

      It isn’t enough that the teacher’s unions have dumbed down America and created two generations of morons. They have created a nation half of its citizens prefer socialism/Marxism to a republic and have destroyed the greatest government the world had ever seen. Hell is too good for these people.

      Report this comment

      steve61lindsey  
    • franklinmintjulep
      Posted on February 12, 2013 at 5:46am

      the “noblest profession” …..hmmm…depending on what is being taught and who it’s being taught to, it has the potential (and now in the public school system, the near certainty) of being the most heinous profession…

      Report this comment

      franklinmintjulep  
  • TurboPT
    Posted on February 11, 2013 at 9:48pm

    @KeatonC333
    Really? What is your salary basis?

    Teachers in the city of Chicago make just over $70,000/year on average. Median household income statistics in Chicago was about $46,800/year. Granted, the NATIONWIDE avg. falls in your range, but being average does NOT make it true for all.

    Sounds like either:
    1. you are not making what you’d like [which you can quit and pursue another carrer], or
    2. you are in a union complaining about the pay.

    If it is the latter, then you can still persue another career, or get your union bosses to reduce their pay to give you more — but good luck with that! http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/14/teacher-union-bigs-rake-in-dough-despite-budget-cuts-across-education-sector/

    Report this comment

    TurboPT  
    • woodyee
      Posted on February 11, 2013 at 10:00pm

      Beg to differ – the average K thru HS is $52K.(gov.BLS) Worlds highest paid teachers are in the US (NYT). I suspected he was throwing numbers around to see what sticks…

      Report this comment

      woodyee  
    • Lt_Scrounge
      Posted on February 11, 2013 at 11:19pm

      Don’t forget the number of days that teachers actually work. Unless they’re football coaches, cheerleading coaches or band directors, the bulk of them work under 200 days a year and then have multiple vacation, sick and personal days that they can take against those few days. Then after three years they get tenure which means that they can effectively do NOTHING (some are actually paid to do nothing) and still collect a check without fear of losing their jobs or annual pay increases.

      Report this comment

      Lt_Scrounge  
  • MartyTr
    Posted on February 11, 2013 at 9:47pm

    The communist party supports unions. That should be enough to tell you something. If it doesn’t, you’re not to bright. –www.cpusa.org

    Report this comment

    MartyTr  
  • PoliticallyRightUs.Com
    Posted on February 11, 2013 at 9:42pm

    The Communist Takeover Of
    America – Declared Goals:
    [From "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen]
    17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers’ associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

    Report this comment

    PoliticallyRightUs.Com  
  • Figure Skater Mom
    Posted on February 11, 2013 at 9:40pm

    If one more closely examines the rhetoric of this so-called “article,” he might notice one of the greatest fallacies in logic. Why in the hell are POLITICIANS making policy regarding EDUCATION? If politicians are so qualified in areas outside of their political expertise, I urge readers to seek a politician the next time they need legal advice, surgery, or an eye exam. Teachers unions are actually run by educators; I assure you that is NOT where the problem lies. Rather, the reason some of our students are under performing is a complex, multi-faceted issue, ranging from the elimination of trade schools (not all students should be college-bound) to students whose parents fail to invest an adequate amount of time in them. Unlike children of the past, the majority of kids today come from families in which both parents work or in which the family unit only consists of one parent. Many students lack manners, as well as adequate background knowledge upon which to build knowledge. Teachers work countless hours–instructing, grading, providing feedback, encouraging kids, contacting parents–but it takes a community to educate a child. Teachers do the best they can, but parents need to step it up to the level of parenting we had just a couple of decades ago in order for the system to function properly. Shame on those quick to criticize if those of you so quick to judge have never lived the life of a teacher!

    Report this comment

    Figure Skater Mom  
    • DLV
      Posted on February 11, 2013 at 9:50pm

      okay keep telling yourself that. Teacher unions may be run by “educators” but they are still failing miserably. Teachers unions seem to care far more about power than education. Can you explain why it is nearly impossible to fire a teacher nowadays even if they are just so terrible? Interesting response but ultimately failing.

      Report this comment

      DLV  
  • TheGrtDcptn
    Posted on February 11, 2013 at 9:38pm

    A drag…?!…More like a CURSE…!!

    Report this comment

    TheGrtDcptn  
    • VanceUppercut
      Posted on February 11, 2013 at 9:52pm

      Yes, damn those fat cat teachers, driving around in their Ferraris while eating caviar and drinking the finest champagne! Lulz.

      Report this comment

      VanceUppercut  
    • progressiveslayer
      Posted on February 11, 2013 at 10:19pm

      Hey Vance since you know so much about this tell us how the school districts that get most of the money fail more than those that get less money.Exactly why does that happen? Throwing money at the problem is BS and the only answer is to get government out of the business of education.

      Report this comment

      progressiveslayer  
  • welovetheUSA
    Posted on February 11, 2013 at 9:35pm

    There is the reason why the kids donot know the American history as it was, and that kids are not patriot or know how to think for themselves and perhaps the worst..children think government and global warming are more important than their own freedoms.

    Report this comment

    welovetheUSA  
  • progressiveslayer
    Posted on February 11, 2013 at 9:31pm

    The NEA and the Dept. of education should be classified as terrorist organizations and all it’s members should be imprisoned for life,they’re vermin of the lowest order. In a perfect world that would happen but since we are essentially a dictatorship run by a skinny maniacal Marxist maggot that isn’t going to happen.

    Report this comment

    progressiveslayer  
  • woodyee
    Posted on February 11, 2013 at 9:29pm

    Of COURSE PUBLIC Unions are the bane of education – in more ways than one. You’ve got ‘our’ (tax-funded) employees bargaining contracts with other tax-funded employees, and NOT their employers – clearly a conflict of interest.

    They VOTE on matters of taxation – clearly a conflict of interest.

    They represent the interest of their “members” (often more like a ‘captive audience’) and NOT the interests of the children – clearly a conflict of interest.

    Those folks are quite conflicted.

    Report this comment

    woodyee  
  • SHOESHINEBOY
    Posted on February 11, 2013 at 9:13pm

    The Communist Union of Teacher’s and the Communist Dept of Ed. is leading to the ruin of America turning into their “beloved Communist Dictatorship” that they so want……As America dies, so will the Communist Union of Teachers and Dept of Ed.

    Report this comment

    SHOESHINEBOY  
  • Ghandi was a Republican
    Posted on February 11, 2013 at 9:11pm

    The Federal Government needs to be out of education altogether. It is to important and too big an operation to even think to leave it to the central planners in a far off land who in all reality are more concerned with radical ideology and adoration for the failings of socialism.
    We would be better off outsourcing education to a 1 room schoolhouse in Ethiopia streaming over the Internet. Cost $4/day, far better results and much needed revenue for a school that would appreciate it.

    Report this comment

    Ghandi was a Republican  
  • media-bias-steals-elections
    Posted on February 11, 2013 at 9:11pm

    It’s very simple, change the tax system to allow competition in the market place, we can broadcast free television shows, but then scratch our heads when college graduates show up for their first day on the job, and six months later are not producing the “new business plan” that was so desperately missing that the CEO was looking for?

    In between that intentional jump I just made from “a” to “b”, union employees are collecting benefits that would make contemporary rock stars jealous – who have to tour for a living? Can somebody explain to me why a student guidance counselor has to have a masters degree and makes 6 figures, when they don’t teach anything, all they do is interview students and explain what their options are?

    When you realize the administrative costs built into the school systems that have been regulated by themselves with no interference from third parties its little wonder kids drop out of school? After decades of designing a school employee structure that maximizes the public tax dollar, the problem is not the education system, it’s the people running it?

    How can you honestly say you deserve to be a teacher for your entire life, if you don’t know how to make a buck in the private sector, but expect your students and their parents to pay your bills? Is the economy humming?

    Should we limit teachers to 10 year tours, or go to a artificial intelligence system with video lectures produced by the select few?

    Report this comment

    media-bias-steals-elections  
  • LBJDIDIT1963
    Posted on February 11, 2013 at 9:07pm

    There is no place for any Union that preys on Tax payer Money! It takes the independence of the taxpayer and hijacks thier money for thier onw interest, survival and political affiliations. Take money from Republicans, Independents and other and foward thier own agenda. As President, I would abolish all Unions on the Taxpayer dole. And abolish the National Education Board!

    Report this comment

    LBJDIDIT1963  
  • marybethelizabeth
    Posted on February 11, 2013 at 9:06pm

    There are 889, 000 members in the American Federation of Teachers Union, and plenty of other members in other unions.

    Theblaze has uncovered 1 disgruntled union member.

    Congratulations.

    Report this comment

    marybethelizabeth  
    • progressiveslayer
      Posted on February 11, 2013 at 9:41pm

      Public schools and teachers unions are helping to destroy this country in many different ways and I don’t expect you to realize it since you’re part of the problem,a big government prog who never met a government program she didn’t like.

      Report this comment

      progressiveslayer  
    • DLV
      Posted on February 11, 2013 at 9:51pm

      mary continues to be the fool. Of course many teachers aren’t going to stand out against the unions if they are intimidated or the unions are making them money. Especially in the poorer areas it seems that teachers care far more about their pay than the children.

      Report this comment

      DLV  
    • Anonymous T. Irrelevant
      Posted on February 11, 2013 at 11:07pm

      MARYBETH
      Wrong, you’ve seem to have forgotten the Chicago teacher’s strike, and before that, the unions in Wisconsin and Ohio. See, it’s not hard to find idiots, who make a good living, who are still not satisfied. Ever-complaining. Since the Dept. of Education came into being, education has gone downhill. Luckily, I graduated the same year and avoided their attempts at social engineering, political correctness, and indoctrination. If I were the head of the Dept. of Ed., I would give the striking teachers an ultimatum. Go back to work, or lose your job. There are plenty of ex-teachers, who quit, because they could no longer stand the way children were being treated, who will still come back and teach. We NEED teachers who enjoy teaching and helping children, and not just for the money.

      Report this comment

      Anonymous T. Irrelevant  
  • banjarmon
    Posted on February 11, 2013 at 9:04pm

    Are Teachers Unions a Drag on U.S. Schools?
    DOES a bear crap in the woods?

    Report this comment

    banjarmon  
    • Keatonc333
      Posted on February 11, 2013 at 9:09pm

      Banjarmon is just jealous he didn’t get an education

      Keatonc333  
    • banjarmon
      Posted on February 12, 2013 at 12:58am

      @ Keatonc333
      you’re the true definition of a liberal…your so open minded your brain fell out…the dogs found it and brought it home…then the cats found what was left and covered it up. Now you’re left with a constipated vacuum between your ears and diarrhea of the mouth!

      Report this comment

      banjarmon  
  • PoliticallyRightUs.Com
    Posted on February 11, 2013 at 9:03pm

    Hey Keaton, obviously you are democrat… so tell me how do you like having to pay higher taxes because of the Dem tax increases? or do you think that is all republicans doing???

    Report this comment

    PoliticallyRightUs.Com  
    • Keatonc333
      Posted on February 11, 2013 at 9:09pm

      the 2% that Obama cut in 2010? and then raised back to the Bush tax cuts level this year.. doesn’t bother me. I’m glad he gave us a tax break during the recession though.

      Report this comment

      Keatonc333  
  • sparky239
    Posted on February 11, 2013 at 8:59pm

    unions have one agenda and that is greed and nothing else,the unions are corrupt and do not bring any productivity to the teachers or the schools..the union should be disband and take the teachers back to a system that if they perform well then they advance upward and if they perform bad then they are fired …salaries ought to be no hirer than the economy can bear..this 60k to 100k salary needs to go..

    Report this comment

    sparky239  
  • Keatonc333
    Posted on February 11, 2013 at 8:52pm

    Ya its teachers unions standing in the way… not the repeated cuts and threats of cuts for public schooling! its the underpaid teachers fault!

    Report this comment

    Keatonc333  
    • DLV
      Posted on February 11, 2013 at 9:54pm

      Everyone would like to make more money, Keaton and the unions certainly make them more by leeching off others. But guess how much teachers make in private schools? A ton more. Private school educations are a lot better.

      Report this comment

      DLV  
    • mharry860
      Posted on February 11, 2013 at 10:01pm

      Oh look, a new troll name.

      Report this comment

      mharry860  
  • Keatonc333
    Posted on February 11, 2013 at 8:51pm

    I wonder why they never ask the couple hundred prof. who would say the exact opposite.

    Report this comment

    Keatonc333  
    • barber2
      Posted on February 11, 2013 at 9:55pm

      Perhaps because of the fact that at CUNY Mr. Mikhail Vasenkov, a Russian spy, was teaching under the alias of Juan Lazaro ! And, interestingly, the Obama Lefties returned him and all of these 10 Russian spies to Mother Russia without any serious investigation or prosecution . Typical of our Obama Chicago radicals… and, of course, the Lefty / hate Bush / Republicans MSM, typically, is clueless and “non judgmental.”

      Report this comment

      barber2  
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