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Faith

‘Godless Congregation’: Atheist Church Steals From Christian Tradition to Launch Rapidly-Expanding House of Worship

Feb. 12, 2013 8:40am Billy Hallowell

The concept of an atheist church is certainly a curious one. An ideological movement that rejects the existence of a higher power would generally seem, at least on the surface, to shun houses of worship. However, British comedians Sanderson Jones and Pippa Evans recently decided to launch The Sunday Assembly, an atheist church in the United Kingdom that has quickly gained hundreds of members and international attention. Already, the response has been so monumental that church leaders are planning to travel to Scotland for special performances.

The Sunday Assembly describes itself as “a godless congregation that will meet on the first Sunday of every month to hear great talks, sing songs and generally celebrate the wonder of life.” It provides non-believers with the opportunity to experience church community without buying into God and other related elements that secularists overwhelmingly reject. The church’s success after just one month has been mind-boggling.

Originally, Jones and Evans hoped that 50 people would attend the first service in London. Instead, 200 congregants showed up, with this number growing to 300 at the second meeting.

Perhaps most striking are the patterns The Sunday Assembly follows, as it uses traditional church practices and adapts them to a non-believing audience. Take, for instance, this recent description from The Guardian:

The Sunday Assembly may be godless, but a churchgoer who stumbled through the wrong door would find much they recognised.

The service opens with a song, led by Evans and an enthusiastic band at the front; instead of a hymn, however, it is “Don’t Stop Me Now” by Queen (“We’ve chosen something that allows hamming it up to the max”). The service features a reading, a moment of reflective silence, even a collection to pay for the rental of the church, during which people are invited to turn in the pews and greet those sitting beside and behind them. The plan in future is to engage members in community-based good works.

There is also a sermon, of sorts, on the day’s theme of “wonder”, which sees Dr Harry Cliff, a particle physicist from Cambridge, talking about Dirac’s equation predicting antimatter (“the most amazing theory in history”) and the enormous statistical odds against the universe existing in the first place. The congregation then stands to sing Superstition by Stevie Wonder.

See some scenes from inside the church, below (caution: language):

The church’s founders believe that they have tapped into something that has gone unsatisfied for quite some time in the non-theist community: The urge for a sense of togetherness. This is a phenomenon in the atheist community that the TheBlaze has analyzed extensively. Examining past events that activists have organized like the Reason Rally and Rock Beyond Belief, it is clear that many non-believers are seeking community and a cohort of others who, like them, reject belief in a higher power.

“It is intended to tap into a feeling of wonder, that atheists have like believers, to challenge beliefs and give you something to think about for the week ahead,” Jones recently explained. “People also love to feel part of something and in a sense you lose that when you lose God. Our view is you don’t need to believe to get that back.”

As the church grows, one wonders whether others will sprout up in Europe and across the globe. As atheists seek community and use theistic blueprints to achieve their goals, they’ll likely be faced with increased scrutiny when it comes to denials that atheism has become a faith system in its own regard.

What do you think about The Sunday Assembly? Let us know in the comments section, below.

(H/T: Scotsman)

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Related:

‘A Godless Congregation’: British Comedians Launch Atheist Church to Provide Secular Weddings, Funerals & ‘Worship’ Services

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Comments (283)

MrBigBillyB
Posted on February 12, 2013 at 10:19am
I would LOVE to see this in the US. It would be perfect! That would confirm the fact that Atheism is indeed a religion (they have their own church and everything.) And since they are a religion with their own church, there would have to be a “separation of church and state.” Therefore, schools would have to stop teaching the ridiculousness of Evolution since that is one of the main beliefs of the Atheist/Humanist religion. Therefore the choice would have to be made, either allow creationism to be taught, or disallow evolution. You can’t play favorites on which religion is OK to teach, right?

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- BOGOTSTOGO
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 10:36am
  Excellent thoughts MrBig. I’ve always said I don’t have enough faith to be an athiest.
  
  Report this comment
- TH30PH1LUS
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 10:36am
  3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.
  
  Isn’t this Atheist Church a reboot of the “religion of reason” that turned France into a madhouse during the French Revolution?
  
  Report this comment
- Locked
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 10:43am
  @Mrbig
  
  “Therefore, schools would have to stop teaching the ridiculousness of Evolution since that is one of the main beliefs of the Atheist/Humanist religion”
  
  That doesn’t much make sense, as evolution isn’t an atheist belief – it’s scientific theory (and interestingly, one accepted by many Christians including all those belonging to the Roman Catholic church; former pope John Paul II stated it was true). If atheism was a religion, it would mean that teachers aren’t allowed to teach that there is definitely no God. And as far as I know, teachers don’t teach that now anyway!
  
  Report this comment
- JRook
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 10:50am
  “it uses traditional church practices and adapts them to a non-believing audience” Of course there is no reason to believe that any religion would borrow or adapt things from other faiths or religious figures. Really?? how about the description of 7 religious figures that preceded JC. Hmmm see any similarities.
  
  http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-christ-like-figures-who-pre-date-jesus/
  
  Report this comment
- The Big Mick
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 11:32am
  locked, 10:43
  And if you are saying, even by implication, that said “Scientific THEORY” doesn’t have gaping HOLES in it then you ain’t been paying attention for the last quarter century.
  Back in the 90s I was seeing contemporary media stuff about a switch from “Classic” “Gradual” evolution to “gaps” and “jumps”. I was reading stories of Scientists who FAVORED a “seeding from space” even “alien seeding” theory to explain the holes. Today I am reading/seeing about “membrane universes” and “life tailored Earth”.
  Most Christians have little problem with THEORY presented as THEORY, as POSSIBLE Explanation, LK. But that ain’t what HAPPENS is it? What HAPPENS is THEORY presented as FACT, and ALTERNATE Theory rejected as FALSE simply because it Posits a Non-Material Universe.
  A GLARING a priori double standard and question begging.
  Evolution is no more (or less) “provable” than Creationism. To say ONE is Science “FACT” a bold faced LIE to turn “Theory” into “FACT”, and the other is a FALSE BELIEF is to make a PRE-judgement from a BIASED World View.
  
  Report this comment
- qualityrkc
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 11:48am
  Believing in evolution doesnt mean you don’t believe in god it just means that you do believe in science. Evolution has scientific evidence to support it. In otherwords, it would remain in science class bc there is scientific evidence to support it. When there is scientific evidence to support creationism then it will be taught in science class.
  
  Report this comment
- golfer8805
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 11:50am
  By that logic, christians believe in gravity, therefore gravity is a religious belief? Please work on presenting a better argument.
  
  Report this comment
- TH30PH1LUS
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 12:38pm
  We know where this path leads: confiscation of church lands, removal of statues, plates and other iconography from places of worship, destruction of crosses, bells and other external signs of worship
  the institution of revolutionary and civic cults, including the Cult of Reason, the enactment of a law making all nonjuring priests and all persons who harboured them liable to death on sight.
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_Reason
  
  I think it’s laughable when people say “I believe in science”, when science is not about belief. There’s nothing more irrelevant than a 15 year old science textbook. Science is a discipline about discovery that was handed to us by men who believed in the Bible! Speaking of which conclusion drawn by textual scholars is that the Dead Sea Scrolls confirm the accuracy in the transmission of the text of the Old Testament back 1000 years earlier than the manuscripts that existed prior to their find.
  
  Report this comment
- Locked
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 1:20pm
  @The Big Mick
  
  “And if you are saying, even by implication, that said “Scientific THEORY” doesn’t have gaping HOLES in it then you ain’t been paying attention for the last quarter century.”
  
  I’m sorry, but your rant is wrong. Just because -you- don’t understand evolution or what makes something a scientific theory, doesn’t mean the rest of us don’t. You might start your research into what a “scientific theory” actually is, and how it differs from the layman’s usage of “theory.”
  
  By-and-large, Christians are fine with evolution being taught as a scientific theory. It’s not some atheist boogyman; it’s just science that helps explain the world.
  
  Report this comment
- LightOfReason
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 1:49pm
  Exactly!
  Another funny thing is that when I speak to Atheist about God often times they say “you can’t prove a negative” meaning you can’t prove that God does not exist. If this is so then why do they try so hard and why this “church”?
  The fact is that they really do know God exist but they don’t want to accept Him.
  I don’t believe in Mickey Mouse, Buddha or Islam so I don’t feel a big need to try to prove it, I know the truth and the truth has set me free. Build a church to Mickey Mouse if you want; it won’t affect my faith (maybe make it stronger) it’s just a Freudian slip anyway.
  
  Report this comment
- Dan_o
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 2:10pm
  [14] But in the prophets of Jerusalem
  I have seen a horrible thing:
  they commit adultery and walk in lies;
  they strengthen the hands of evildoers,
  so that no one turns from his evil;
  all of them have become like Sodom to me,
  and its inhabitants like Gomorrah.”
  [15] Therefore thus says the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets:
  “Behold, I will feed them with bitter food
  and give them poisoned water to drink,
  for from the prophets of Jerusalem
  ungodliness has gone out into all the land.”
  (Jeremiah 23:14-15 ESV)
  
  Report this comment
- Grubmeister
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 2:56pm
  I read the other day that gravity is the “god holding down force”. I suppose since science merely has a “theory”, the former should be taught in school instead. After all, belief in god has been around a lot longer than science so we shouldn’t change things too hastily.
  
  Report this comment
- NiModo
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 2:59pm
  Good point. sidenote**Stevie Wonder would object to them using one of his songs, for he is a believer of the most high. Jehovah.
  
  Report this comment
- Grubmeister
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 3:22pm
  @ReasonLite
  “The fact is that they really do know God exist but they don’t want to accept Him.”
  Is that a fact? Exactly how do you know that? Is it your god given talent for mind reading?
  
  “I don’t believe in Mickey Mouse, Buddha or Islam so I don’t feel a big need to try to prove it, I know the truth and the truth has set me free.”
  All I can see is that you feel your truth has set you free from needing any justification for your truth.
  Look, you apparently don’t understand what they’re trying to make clear with this whole “can’t prove a negative” business. We’ll make this a really simple exercise though so the entire class can follow along. Let’s say we replace “god” with “Mickey Mouse” in the statement “I believe god is the creator of the entire universe”. So now instead we have the statement “I believe Mickey Mouse is the creator of the entire universe”. I don’t think this is going to be a stretch but I’m willing to bet you disagree with that statement. Of course you do, it’s rediculous to think that Mickey Mouse created the universe. Yet, here you are with somebody in your face telling you that’s the truth and if you know what’s good for you, you’d better get with the program and believe it. How exactly do you refute that claim other than saying you see no evidence for it and choose not to believe it.
  Bzzz!!! Your time is up and you haven’t looked under every rock. Yup, unproveable negative.
  
  Report this comment
- brother_ed
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 3:43pm
  I believe life is a journey of discovery and that we are not all at the same mile marker.
  
  Those who think their belief in God is proof that they are farther down the path than a non-believer (or a different denomination), should exercise patience and teach those who are behind them.
  
  Likewise, those that believe their non-belief in an ‘imaginary friend’ is proof that they have progressed ahead of the believer, should also exercise patience toward the believers.
  
  The problem lies with the ‘I’m better than you’ attitude from both parties.
  
  Have faith (pun intended) that people who seek the truth will eventually find it.
  
  Meanwhile, let your life and your joy in being you be a beacon to those you are trying to guide.
  
  The actions of others has no affect on my salvation – however my berating them and ridiculing them may have consequences.
  
  Good for these folks – no harm, no foul.
  
  Report this comment
- Dan_o
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 3:44pm
  Grubmeister, God knew you were going to say that:
  
  [18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. [19] For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. [20] For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. [21] For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. [22] Claiming to be wise, they became fools, [23] and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
  [24] Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, [25] because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
  
  (Romans 1:18-25 ESV)
  
  Report this comment
- Locked
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 4:00pm
  @Brother_Ed
  
  The more I read your posts, the more often I find myself nodding and agreeing with you. God bless you!
  
  Report this comment
- Grubmeister
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 4:18pm
  @Dan,
  I hate it when milk comes out my nose from laughing. Everyone thinks it’s pretty funny but I find it embarassing.
  Actually, when I saw your first line I instinctively looked up to see if there was a giant floating disembodied hand pointing a finger at me.
  
  Actually, I didn’t do any of that.
  Sighhh…
  I just don’t know what to do with a person who throws quotes at me from the bible. We’re not living in the same world. I suppose as an agnostic atheist I should say there is “some” possibility I’ll one day admit you’ve proven me wrong. From my perspective there’s probably zero chance you’ll wind up admitting I’ve proven you wrong. I mean, you’d be dead and at that point you don’t get to contemplate the supernatural or a life wasted believing a myth. That fickle finger of fate may yet point my way but all I can hope for from you is honesty. I mean if you’ve never met god, jesus or whoever it is you worship…and you can’t tell the difference between warm fuzzies and a real experience…I’ve got nothin’.
  I’m really not operating under any illusion here regarding my ability to change minds based on lack of evidence. Do you think quoting the bible or saying “god knows what you think” is somehow going to be more successful? Can you help me out here man?
  
  Report this comment
- Dan_o
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 5:15pm
  Grubmeister, we are living in the same world and that’s kinda the point. We have different world views, certainly, but only one is correct where they disagree. I agree you cannot sway someone who believes on faith. Also, it’s not my goal to convince you there is a God. If I can convince you, someone else can unconvince you. The counter point to that is you also have faith to believe what you believe.
  
  However, I do believe we are all under condemnation for rejecting God until we believe by faith and as a believer and follower of Christ it’s my duty to obey. So, unlike Brother Ed’s live and let live philosophy, I would prefer to scream at the person who’s about to get hit by a bus. Since faith comes by hearing, I know of nowhere else to turn but the Word of God.
  
  If you really want to understand where I am coming from, you’ll just have to read the bible. It is amazing! Are you willing to do that?
  
  Report this comment
- TheIggies
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 5:48pm
  Christians believe in evolution, too. At least the intelligent ones do.
  
  Report this comment
- binge_thinker
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 11:40pm
  Like so many folks today, these people want to run with the ethics of Jesus while rejecting his very divinity. Hypocrisy much??? But that cannot be done. The ethics he demands can only come from a relationship with God, which he came to restore for us. Until we embrace his teachings that we are sinners alienated from God, we certainly cannot live up to his ethics.
  
  Report this comment
- MTgrammie
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 2:18am
  Absolutely agree! Having a ‘church’ is the antithesis of what an atheist supposedly stands for. That they need somewhere to gather just shows that they do believe in something! They believe in science and recognize it as a ‘power greater than themselves’, which is what they claim NOT to believe in. What a joke on them. The fact that they use a church format is even funny. I think they just proved that there really is no such thing as an atheist! It would seem that everyone has to believe in something.
  
  Report this comment
- TexasRenaissance
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 6:31pm
  There is a Freethinker “church” near Dallas.
  
  Report this comment
- NogodNojesus
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 1:36am
  *******, you’re a dumb, dimwitted, foolish arzehoal. You have no grasp of science. Please go to your nearest library and check out a Biology text.
  
  Report this comment
- Rosie_The_Riviter
  Posted on February 15, 2013 at 12:27am
  I totally agree! I always say snidely that atheism is a religion, but I’m serious, and this proves it! It is the belief that God doesn’t exist, hence it is a belief system!
  
  Report this comment
- xiaoken
  Posted on February 17, 2013 at 1:01pm
  You should do a little research before bashing people.
  “That would confirm the fact that Atheism is indeed a religion (they have their own church and everything.)”
  No. Let’s look at Webster’s definitions of religion: “the service and worship of God or the supernatural” and ” a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith”. By definition atheists do not worship the supernatural. As for the second definition, I will not deny a small percentage may hold that belief with “ardor and faith” but I have never met any. All the atheists (mostly skeptical libertarian/republican types) I know do not (or try not) to hold their atheism, politics or any other belief with “ardor and faith”. If any evidence comes up contrary I know many (myself included) that would change our minds.
  
  “…there would have to be a “separation of church and state.” Therefore, schools would have to stop teaching the ridiculousness of Evolution since that is one of the main beliefs of the Atheist/Humanist religion. Therefore the choice would have to be made, either allow creationism to be taught, or disallow evolution. You can’t play favorites on which religion is OK to teach, right?”
  
  There is no “main belief” of atheism. Atheist means non-gods believer. For example what is the main belief for non-stamp collectors? See this doesn’t work? Are you saying science is the “main belief”? If so, then you could add “germ theory”, “gravitational theory”
  
  Report this comment
- fallennn
  Posted on February 18, 2013 at 6:47pm
  But even if atheism was a religion, which it isn’t, that wouldn’t make the theory of evolution a religion. Are there religious people who believe in the theory of evolution? Yes. Are there atheists who don’t believe in the theory of evolution? Yes.
  
  Report this comment
- cgnick
  Posted on February 25, 2013 at 10:49am
  You can call it a religion if you want, it would be a non-mythological one. I wonder if they pass around a collection plate expecting their 10% just like any other church.
  
  Report this comment
carl1000
Posted on February 12, 2013 at 10:12am
Makes absolutely no sense.

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- G-WHIZ
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 10:16am
  Athests have no god and no church and no-one to pray-to . So, why do they need a “church”??
  
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- THERAPTURCOMES
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 10:26am
  By rejecting Christ they automatically are servants of satan the question is, how many will still be this ignorant after the resurrection/rapture takes place http://youtu.be/ahEVxIzlxwo
  
  Hey you atheists, the only way to be saved is through belief UPON Jesus Christ
  
  Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
  
  10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
  
  Once you see millions vanish with your own eyes you had better become believers because you will burn in the lake of fire if you do not.
  
  Report this comment
- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 12:44pm
  Hey Rapture,
  
  Prove it
  
  Report this comment
- Dan_o
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 4:30pm
  Doors,
  
  “[2] Jesus answered them, “When it is evening, you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red.’ [3] And in the morning, ‘It will be stormy today, for the sky is red and threatening.’ You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times.
  
  [4] An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah.” So he left them and departed.”
  (Matthew 16:2-4 ESV)
  
  The reference to Jonah is pointing out those he preached to repented, but those who reject Jesus will be judged by those who repented after hearing Jonah as Jesus is greater than Jonah.
  
  Report this comment
- WalkThePath
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 5:12pm
  Apart from the obvious racist conservative elements in this story, which makes me think we need to register all guns as soon as possible, I must say that I am finally glad to see that SOMEONE out there wants to set up the altars of Baal and Molech again! Too many stinking proles! What we need is a bloody human sacrifice! Forget the contrivance of world war three, lets get those altars set up and throw em in the fire like the old days! Thank god those secular Jews and their banking buddies are hard at work, this whole capitalist wealth thing is such a BORE. BRING BACK THE ALTARS ON THE MOUNTAINS! MAN IS GOD! WE MADE ALL OF THIS THROUGH WILL POWER! Whoopeeee, Babylon is on its way!
  
  Report this comment
- Dan_o
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 5:20pm
  Walkthepath,
  
  You are aware anyone can click on your moniker and see that all of your last ten posts are almost exactly the same, right? Are you being paid to post that drivel?
  
  Report this comment
- DLV
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 6:51pm
  Rapture- I have to say it but where do you get the rapture from? The new Testament actually never references it. I found this out when I took New Testament at my Christian school. I was brought up with it but then found there was no evidence for it in biblical text.
  
  Report this comment
- Dan_o
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 7:38pm
  DLV,
  
  I happen to believe in a rapture as per 1 Thes 4:15-17, but I don’t think it’s a point to be contended to strongly one way or another. The Greek word for “caught up” in 1Thes 4:17 is harpazō which means to be snatched abruptly or suddenly. There are some other verses that seem to confer with this idea, but again, I don’t think it should be a point of contention.
  
  Would you call yourself an amillennialist? Just curious.
  
  Report this comment
- DLV
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 10:39pm
  Dan- No, I’m pre and you’re right it’s really not worth dividing about. You’re right that passage does seem to support the passage but it could be symbolic and be something else entirely. I never condone picking and choosing the bible. That’s very bad. However, Christians need to know what is taken literally and what is symbolic.
  
  Report this comment
- 4truth2all
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 5:31am
  Yo Dan _O & DLV:
  
  The timing of the rapture is given in the New Testiment Paul clearly says that it is at the sound of the seventh trump … and I believe that it is very important for reasons that I have previously stated and really don’t want to get into with this responce. The verses in Thes. only talk to the event and never mention the timing.
  
  Report this comment
- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 8:10am
  Dan-
  
  I said prove it…I could give you quotes from the lord of the rings but it doesn’t make hobbits anymore real…
  
  Report this comment
- Dan_o
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:00am
  4Truth,
  
  I happen to agree with you. While I think it is important to strive to understand, I don’t think this is a matter to divide camp over. DVL said he didn’t think there was a rapture. We didn’t talk about timing of the rapture, but about dispensations.
  
  Report this comment
- Dan_o
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 1:11pm
  Doors, I’ll worry about proving God’s existence when you can prove the origin of a finite universe.
  
  Report this comment
repairsea
Posted on February 12, 2013 at 10:07am
I’ve read the comments. Atheist are hurt people. The hurt normally results from another individual or individuals who were a hypocrites or bad and who were religious. Yes, there are good and bad people in the world. Yes, there are good and bad people in religion. Yes, there are religions that do not represent God’s love. So, the atheist has allowed another person(s) to control their soul and thoughts. To separate them having good life as they are obsessed with this hurt. I pray your turn this pain over to God in the name of Jesus Christ our Savior. Amen.

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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 12:47pm
  Prove it…I live a wonderful life, I mean I really really really love living:) No hurt at all other than the normal stuff most people go through. Your opinion is arrogant and completely baseless. I don’t believe in your god.
  
  Report this comment
- Grubmeister
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 3:53pm
  Wow! I’ve never met a group with such a finely tuned ability to empathize. They know exactly how I feel as an atheist.
  I did stub my toe the other day and it really did hurt like the dickens. Other than that I’m fit as a fiddle.
  My wife found a lump in her arm the other day. Can you tell me what it is or should I go to a doctor who studied medicine based on scientific methods? I hope you don’t tell me you hope she dies like the other xtians. That would probably hurt my feelings. You knew that though, didn’t you? You knew I was going to ask that question didn’t you?
  I’m going to leave now but you knew that too, right?
  
  Report this comment
- Git-R-Done
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 11:27pm
  Doors – Is that why you have such a bitter and angry attitude on here?
  
  Report this comment
PAUL GULLO
Posted on February 12, 2013 at 10:06am
Wow . Their really showing us .

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john vincent
Posted on February 12, 2013 at 10:04am
Maybe this is a step in the right direction for the self described atheist?????????

Perhaps this environment of ‘feel good nothingness’ may flip a switch, and some may see the inadequate and futile attempts at worshipping an entity that doesn’t exist. Sure, they will say ‘we are not worshipping,’ Really??

The fool says in his heart.there is no God..Get it??

Not a matter of unbelief, but only denial………….there are no atheists. I repeat, there are no atheists.

The fool SAYS in his heart……….there is no God….he ‘SAYS,’ there is intelligent conversation, but denial wins the day…….

An atheist church??? That is really funny

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- DeavonReye
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 10:31am
  Using a verse twice doesn’t make it true. You worship the words some simple man wrote a few millenia ago. That’s all.
  
  Is there a god? I have no idea. I see nothing even remotely evidential. In order for you TO call someone “a fool”, you must supply some pretty impressive evidence FOR “a god”. . . . especially when modern science has found more against many of the christian doctrines than for.
  
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- john vincent
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 10:47am
  d-rye
  
  tkx for post
  
  -’using a verse twice twice doesnt make it true.’ we both agree,
  
  ‘purple is a primary color
  purple is a primary color
  
  -an untruth, i get the point
  
  however, saying something twice for emphasis, that’s a horse of a different color
  ‘ie, ‘verily verily, I say unto you…….’
  
  Now then, God says ‘the fool says in his heart….’
  
  That’s not my opinion, that’s the Creator’s testimony as to the heart which he made. Its that simple.
  
  AS to your statement that you have not seen evidence of a Creator, I pity you.
  
  -nature-
  -life-
  death-
  animal life
  and the record of the word of God speak to a Creator-
  if you were completely honest, you would agree
  
  Report this comment
- DeavonReye
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 11:14am
  That’s the thing, though, John. I AM being honest. I’m far more honest now [as an agnostic] than I ever was in my most pious christian life. There was a constant nagging within me at that time. It isn’t there now.
  
  Do I wish [or want] a “god” to be true? Maybe. . . . but not one who rewards credulity AND punishes [for all eternity] those who honestly can’t agree with a book which [for all intents and purposes] was merely written by some ancient men. I understand that christianity sees the words as “from god”, . . . and if I hadn’t been exposed to some VERY powerful arguments against that, I might agree. But I can’t. And that is an honest stance.
  
  This transcends the arguments about the natural world and who sees them as “completely natural” or “designed”.
  
  Report this comment
- 4truth2all
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 11:52am
  Yo Deavonreye:
  
  I asked you a question previously, you did not answer … you said that you never had a spiritual experience ( I believe that is how you stated it) what is it that you expected?
  
  Report this comment
- momrules
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 12:13pm
  Good Morning Devonreye………..Even when I don not respond to you I always read your comments as you are always so nice and intelligent. I personally think I would like you in person and I think there is more Jesus Christ in you than you know.
  
  I do have a question for you as I know you have read the Bible and Bible prophecy. As you look at the world today with the rise of Islam, increased hatred of Israel and the Jew, more immorality, the persecution of Christians( especially in N.Africa and the M.E. but on the rise in America), the return of Jews to their homeland, etc……..can you not see that it is all happening? That each and every one of these prophecies has come to pass?
  
  I continue to pray for you and I believe we are in the latter days. I hope you will turn one more time to God. Jesus died on that cross for you as much as He did me and I so want you to be with me in Heaven.
  
  Report this comment
- john vincent
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 12:45pm
  d-rye
  i replied to your last post- disappeared-
  
  anyway, no argument here-
  and it sounds like there was a poor influence on your ‘early life,’ the book that you say is unworthy actually speaks to the hypocrites, imposters, wayward, carnal, unspiritual, and it does seem you made an illogical leap:
  
  writing off God’s word because of peoples defects.
  Please do not judge God’s word by people, but judge people by God’s word-
  
  everything, sorry to repeat, everything points to a creator
  
  hope that helps
  
  Report this comment
- DeavonReye
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 12:47pm
  4all, I gave that a lot of thought [in the past, and even present]. I expected something beyond myself. If it is just me “saying words to a god” [which I have nothing in reality to build upon], it was [and would still be] empty.
  
  Mom, good morning. I appreciate your kind words.
  
  I have read the “prophesies” and found them too vague to be compelling. Now, that is my take on it. Your mileage may vary. :-) Having said that, there IS a lot of evidence that the world is going in a dangerous direction and it does worry me. All I can do is be a good person and, should the need arise to defend America against attacks, do my part to send rounds the right direction.
  
  Whereas I appreciate your concern and care for me [good stuff!!], . . . I don’t see “Jesus on the cross” the same as christianity does. But that’s okay. I am honest about it. I can’t be any other way. And should there actually BE a real Jesus “up there”, then I will just have to hope that my humble honesty would outweigh what would only be a hypocritical “belief”. Any truly advanced being should see the true nature of the person and why they are as they are.
  
  :-)
  
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- checkmate0831
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 2:05pm
  Wow! Thanks guys for having some good, adult debate. Very refreshing.
  
  D, God will certainly judge the hearts of all men. Jesus gave Judas every last possible opportunity to repent, however, he chose his path and the consequences.
  
  Report this comment
- JQuentinEvermann
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 2:27pm
  @ Deavonreye – Nice to meet you in another religious discussion.
  
  I think the fundamental misunderstanding here comes from the fact that people think of the building and those who meet there as a church, rather than a cult gathering. “Church” has nothing to do with God, no matter how much people inside sing about Him or talk about Him, they’re really just gathering to glorify someone else’s idea of what God is.
  
  After I read the Bible multiple times and figured it out, there was no need to be spoon fed a bunch of crap from someone who’s understanding of God was funneled to them by another.
  
  If church does good for Christians, it is hypocritical to criticize non-Christians for forming a church, even Atheists.
  
  I just think it is really sad to see people attend church as if God has a checklist and actually gives a darn if people show up to these places of “worship.” If the idea of going to church is to please God, it just proves how little most Christians understand about their own religion.
  
  I will field questions from anyone willing to learn the truth.
  
  Report this comment
- DeavonReye
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 4:44pm
  Hey, J. I will usually be in the religious threads as they are of more interest to me [that and gun issues]. I like reading differing opinions on these types of topics, and you do a good job on “differing opinions”. :-) Thanks for the input.
  
  Report this comment
- 4truth2all
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 5:56pm
  Yo Deavonreye:
  
  NOBODYS “good” works will entitle their entrance into heaven … that is the very reason for the cross. Jesus paid the debt that NO ONE had the ability to pay … don’t you understand this truth of scripture.
  
  Also … not totally sure I understand your responce to my question (my mistake) … maybe God was “silent” because your aproach was demanding …. maybe what you were looking for was right in front of you face the whole time but your attitude blinded you (which certainly could be said of creation as stated in Romans 1) … just trying to help … good day
  
  Report this comment
- DLV
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 6:56pm
  Deavonrye- One of the few atheists/agnostics who seem to actually care for debate and not hurling insults. Congrats, I’m genuinely impressed.
  
  Report this comment
- momrules
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 7:12pm
  Devonreye……….In case you get back to this story…….Try studying the Bible and the prophecies with a good commentary. I study with commentary by J. Vernon McGee and Hal Lindsey is an expert on prophecy.
  
  Report this comment
- DeavonReye
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:54am
  4all, I have never been a demanding person. I looked humbly and very openly. Nothing. I can’t emphasize that any stronger. There was literally nothing. If I was sincere [and I was], what kind of god would punish a TRUE seeker just because I may not have “been doing it right”? Of course, I don’t believe there WAS any “god” listening to me, so that’s why it was an empty experience.
  
  As for the “Jesus sacrifice” topic, I can’t go into why I see it differently. It is for each person to walk their own path. Just know that I do not find it to be as christian doctrine see it. However, I DO appreciate when people wish to “help me find god”. It means you care about the person, and there’s nothing wrong with that! :-)
  
  DVL, there are times I get a bit testy, but that’s usually when either some posts an entirely absurd post, or someone openly sends personal attacks my way [and even then, it takes a lot of that for me to be worn down by it]. But thanks for the kind words. :-)
  
  Mom, I’m sure these authors have indepth information on why they feel certain passages were “prophetic”. It is just a difference in how one looks at them. I’ve seen such apologetics on the topic, but they are [of course] slanted towards their specific agenda. Again, I have a few years on this and other topics, but appreciate your offering of them. :-)
  
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RRFlyer
Posted on February 12, 2013 at 10:03am
They may as well enjoy their “togetherness” now, because after they die they will be all alone.

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- qualityrkc
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 11:55am
  Prove it.
  
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shogun459
Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:52am
Sounds like they beleive in “The Great VOID” that swallows all life.

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- Cavallo
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 10:08am
  AKA, The State.
  
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haystack777
Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:51am
It is a “church of HUMANISM”, man has made himself god. They are stupid and BLIND. They are hypocrites.

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wordweaver
Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:38am
Sounds like the Church of Secular Humanism to me.

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thibx
Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:36am
to celebrate the wonders of life, if it wasn’t for God you would not have life, bunch of idiots.

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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 12:31pm
  prove it
  
  Report this comment
- todd147
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 3:57pm
  @doors
  
  I don’t need to prove the Bible. God doesn’t need my help. I believe and will gladly share with those who care to hear, but I’m secure in my faith and God has revealed the truth of His word to me. On another note, most Bible critics haven’t read it. But to me it is uncanny how perfectly accurate the Bible is. Archaeology keeps turning up more evidence of the Bible. Eventually they will catch up with what they can just read about. I’d er on the side of caution. I’d hate to be wrong if all the Christians are right. And I’m convinced we are.
  
  Report this comment
- TheIggies
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 5:51pm
  Ah, and once again Pascal’s Wager comes in for a delightful landing in the land of most erroneous logical fallacies!
  
  Seriously, if you believe the Bible is a source for any thing other than laughs and a bit of poetry and fiction, you’re beyond hope. There’s a reason that secular atheism is the fastest growing demographic in the world. People realize that there is no need to believe in God. Not until someone can prove he exists.
  
  Your “faith” is sad, and it ruins the lives of millions of people.
  
  Report this comment
- DLV
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 6:59pm
  TheI- you are a sad, miserable lonely troll. Take a few pointers from Deavonrye on how to approach religious people. Otherwise leave.
  
  Report this comment
- binge_thinker
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 12:13am
  Thellie,
  What are people according to atheists who believe in evolution? ”A hairless ape” – Schoenberg; ”A mere insect, an ant…” – Church; ”An accidental twig” – Gould; ”A rope stretched over an abyss” – Nietzsche; ”A fungus on the surface of one of the minor planets” – Du Maurier; ”A jest, a dream, a show, bubble, air…” – Thornbury; and ”I see no reason for attributing to man a significant difference in kind from that which belongs to a grain of sand” – Oliver Wendell Holmes.
  When atheism takes hold of a society, moral relativism is inevitable. Nothing is sacred. There is no objective standard of right and wrong, no God, no eternal Day of Judgement. No hope of eternal justice. Life becomes cheap.
  
  Yet it is the people that believe in the Bible that are clueless? Okey Dokey. Your delusions have been noted.
  
  Report this comment
- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 8:15am
  @Todd
  
  I’m sorry if you think the bible is accurate historically and in archaeology…you haven’t done your homework.
  
  Report this comment
- DLV
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 12:46am
  Doors- You really really haven’t done your homework about the bible the way you have been talking. Fail. Try again.
  
  Report this comment
SamIamTwo
Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:32am
Oh and after they create their so called atheist church, they will build pagan idols…it’s a known process of the collectives…their church will splinter off.

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SamIamTwo
Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:30am
YEARS ago, we told the atheist that atheism was a religion. LMAO.

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- Cavallo
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 10:07am
  Of course it is. It’s the official religion of all totalitarian states. The evangelical atheist worships the State. They see all blessings, all gifts, all rights as being given by The State. Their main nemesis is Christianity because they are the meek kids on the playground and you are less likely to get branded as racist in persecution of them. They attack other religions about as often as the ACLU defends Christianity, merely as token gestures for flimsy credibility.
  
  Report this comment
- DeavonReye
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 10:08am
  A few oddballs in Britain does not make atheism a religion.
  
  Report this comment
tzion
Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:27am
The one belief atheists won’t encourage you to challenge: the belief that there is no god. That one they want everyone to accept.

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- TheIggies
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 5:53pm
  Well, considering there is absolutely no proof that any god has or ever will exist…I’d say we’re ok to push that on people who believe blindly in a book equivalent with Harry Potter.
  
  Report this comment
- binge_thinker
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 12:26am
  Iggies,
  If God exceeds your capacity of complete or comprehensive description, that is proof of your growing imitations, not of His nonexistence.
  Comprende?
  
  Report this comment
- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 8:19am
  @binge
  
  If Science(Evolution) exceeds your capacity of complete or comprehensive description, that is proof of your growing imitations, not of IT’S nonexistence.
  Comprende?
  
  Report this comment
- binge_thinker
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 10:45pm
  Door of ignorance
  
  If the Darwinian theory is the best you atheists can come up with as something to grasp onto, then it’s no wonder you’re so readily misled in your faithlessness. One wonders if some of it is not truly disbelief, but actual diabolical influence.
  Comprende?
  
  Report this comment
RANGER1965
Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:17am
Except for the Queen song, this is like every Mensa gathering I’ve ever been too. Add bad puns, elite trivia games, and there would’t be much difference.

So how does the godless church bring in people that don’t really want to hear a scientist expound on particle physics? What about the Atheist Libertarian that likes to hunt, fish, and likes his guns right where they are?

Let me tell you what this church is. It’s not the church of Atheism. This is the church of sensitive, intelligent, Liberals, and those that wish they were; bound together in their hatred of God.

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marybethelizabeth
Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:14am
Mr. Beck said on his radio show yesterday that he was the first person to put words and music together when he did so at his Summer of Love fest in Dallas last year. “Nobody ever tried that before” he said.

That’s where the must have gotten the idea.

Birds of a feather flock together.

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- deskjockey
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:58am
  That isn’t what he said. But why is someone like you listening anyway.
  
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DZ-015
Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:13am
Just more evidence that atheism is a religion, whether worshiping the State under communism or calling it secular humanism. Also, feeling the need to spread the word through advertising and displays in public places. It’s the cult of nothingness.

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Tigress1
Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:12am
It’s a sign that these atheists realize that something is seriously lacking in their lives. A church without God is NOTHING.

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- golfer8805
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:36am
  It looks like that “something” is just community. The idea that they need to worship a Zeus or Thor to be complete is a bit silly.
  
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- qualityrkc
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 11:59am
  I think they are looking for a sense of community. Same reason why theists go to church. You do know you can worship a god from home right?
  
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Gonzo
Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:09am
What a waste of time.

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hslusher
Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:09am
So, Apparently it is a religion to athiests after all.

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- DeavonReye
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:59am
  No. Just to a few oddballs.
  
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- golfer8805
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 10:00am
  Atheism is a religion like abstinence is is sex position.
  
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- BOGOTSTOGO
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 10:41am
  Hey Bogie abstinence is a sexual position or it should be for the unmarried unless they want to end up alone for eternity like the atheists.
  
  Report this comment
- qualityrkc
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 12:24pm
  Not driving a car is not a form of driving a car. This is very simple logic that escapes theists. And bogot thinks people who have sex before getting married are the ones who end up alone?? lol the ones who dont have sex before marriage are the ones who end up getting divorced bc they end up being sexually incompatible with their chosen mate. Look up divorce rates by state. States that are most religious have the highest divorce and std rates.
  
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- todd147
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 4:21pm
  @bogot
  
  You’ll have to enlighten me where in the Bible does it say you go to hell if you have sex outside of marriage? King David had sex outside of marriage. I believe in an all powerful God and a forgiving God. Just because people sin, and we all do, doesn’t condemn them to hell. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the only unpardonable sin according to the Bible.
  
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Locked
Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:04am
Hey, if they enjoy getting together and rocking out to Queen, why not? It’s not hurting anyone, and if they can actually manage to get their community-based good works initiatives off the ground there might actually be a truly positive outcome.

The sense of belonging is an interesting topic. It makes me wonder how many non-Christians go to church just for the community and not because of faith?

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- Grubmeister
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 10:42am
  That is exactly the point of the billboards the atheist organizations have funded back east. Their contention is that many so called xtians go to church because they feel pressured by family members, status requirements or just a personal need to fit in socially. It’s understandable a person would feel this need but being honest about what we can claim as true is a legitimate alternative. It is possible to do go work in this life without claiming to believe more than is reasonable.
  
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- checkmate0831
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 2:14pm
  I can only speak for me, but when I go to church the Bible speaks to my life like no other. It’s almost surreal at times when I show up to church and the pastor is speaking from a passage in a way that directly impacts a personal part of my life. It’s happened to many times to be mere coincidence.
  
  But to be clear, the four major areas that make up a Christian’s walk are: prayer, serving in your community and abroad, fellowship, and reading the Word. Contrast that to just having a big party once a month.
  
  Report this comment
- Grubmeister
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 2:51pm
  @Checkmate
  There is truth and wisdom to be found everywhere if one is willing to look and think. I can find no fault with you hearing the good in the bible for there are some sparklers.
  Do not consider it a person attack when others state their opinion that the bible is neither the word of god nor evem the inspired word of god. There are those with malicious intent but I believe the vast majority of atheists are simply unwilling to be cowed or manipulated by anyone who cannot show cause or reason for their beliefs. To them, the emporor has no clothes and never did. We are left, not by choice, to find our own way. I believe we can do it in a civilized fashion that honors us both.
  
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- binge_thinker
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 1:06am
  It makes me wonder why people that vehemently say there is no God, spend hours and hours and hours of their adult lives obsessing over something they claim doesn’t exist. That’s enlightenment? More like lunacy. Kinda like me OCD’ing about the tooth fairy or the Loch ness monster on a daily basis.
  True “free thinkers” they are not.
  
  Report this comment
- 4truth2all
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 6:32am
  Yo Locked:
  
  We seem to once again disagree … the copycating of the “church” service would be to me based on what scripture says an intentional mockery of God. And it certainly is of NO eternal benifit to those ingauged in this mockery.
  As far as the “good works”: I direct and after school youth program. The ultimate purpose is to get the teens into eternity with the Lord. There are non christian youth programs in the city that want to make good productive people out of the teens (nothing wrong with that … I guess). Problem is this … A thought of my own Pastor in which I would whole heartedly agree… all they manage to do is send them to hell in a Cadillic instead of a beat up Honda. What is good about that at the END of the day?
  
  I am also going to respond here to your last post concerning the Pat Roberson comments.
  You accused me of being a liar, and when I responded to you, as they say, you doubled down on that accusation. Lets examine that …yes I did say that I was not going to respond back to any more of your _____ responces. I CHANGED my mind … it is certainly my right as a human being to do so. Say you invite me to your house for cupcakes, and you ask me if I would like another one and I reply with a no, but two minutes later say; you know what, I will take one …does that make me a liar … I think not ! You then say …”( here comes the temper tantrum)”. Calling someone a liar is a strong statement … cont
  
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- 4truth2all
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 6:59am
  Locked:
  
  I assure you that I did not have to get out my spackling tools, nor did I punt my dog for three points.
  Why would you purposely do something that you know/think might get the other person mad? I find nothing here Christ like , but it does seem prideful … because you then go on to say “Um, Guess it was also a lie that I don’t have “that power” over you”. Talk about fluff … you make assumptions based on … ? seems prideful to me.
  You also say … “I don’t consider myself prideful” … You know what they say … the person with pride is the last one to know … Most people, if honest probably struggle with pride.
  I do believe that it is YOU that lied … you called me a cupcake … I bet if I took a survey of the men on this site and asked ; if you called another man a cupcake, would it be meant as a purposeful insult? In all respect I do believe that 100% would say yes! You then tried to tie it to something else you said later. I didn’t buy it. Pride doesn’t let a man admit he is incorrect.
  You then go on to say … “but I do consider myself secure in my belief and able to back them up. If that comes off as pride to you. I can undstand why you fail to back up your opinions.”
  Someone can be secure and wrong, and NO your positions or opinions are not the problem and I am much more discerning then that. Futher I do believe that I do/did back up my statements, and did alude my opinions back to scripture.
  
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- 4truth2all
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 7:25am
  Locked:
  
  Scripture is what molds my opinions and statements and I try to stay true to that … so, If that is not good enough for you …?
  I find it a high opinion of oneself to at the same time find the need to put another down …
  
  You then ask a question … ” Why do you correlate homosexuality and pedophilia”?
  I NEVER did. Not once did I refer, insinuate or alude to this. That was not my responce/discuission to you at any time ( please prove me wrong). My position was that I would not allow such person to baby sit my kids. ( they could be a friend). I applied this “principle’ to the Boy Scouts because of their own purpose/mission statement. Yes, it will be THEIR decision; our discussion.
  So no, just because a person is homesexual they are not automatically a pedophile. However, a pedophilie is a homosexual ( or gulity and in need of repentence of such) and I’m not going to split hairs on the issue.
  I am also wondering … why would you ask me a question when I said that it was my word that I would not respond further ???
  I bet that had I, your first sentence would have accused me of not being a man of my word. ( which by the way I DID NOT respond futher, that doesn’t apply to here … sorry).
  So that means ( because I don’t consider you stupid) that you intentionally set a “trap” hoping that I would fall … PLEASE, show me the scripture that you are to do that to another brother or anyone !!! To purposefully cause another to fall …!
- 4truth2all
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 7:37am
  Locked:
  
  So, it didn’t work so well for you …. this would seem a prideful thing to do.
  
  You closed by saying… “Sleep well and may God guide you”
  Sorry, but I believe this is just to make you look good (NOTHING against God at all).
  But thank you, because I do believe that my responce here was due to the guidence of “our” God.
  I am done with this discussion unless you respond with something intelligent, pertinent, non fluffy, non insulting, honest or true.
  good day
  
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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 8:37am
  Binge thinker
  
  Hopefully one day bringing up god will be in the same category as someone bringing up the loch ness monster or tooth fairy. As far as I can tell, war and politics are never influenced by the loch ness monster or the tooth fairy. That is why reality is so important to us athiests.
  
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- Locked
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 10:49am
  @4truth2all
  
  Wow… chip on your shoulder much?
  
  “the copycating of the “church” service would be to me based on what scripture says an intentional mockery of God.”
  
  Your perception is not reality, however. I’m sorry that other people listening to Queen upsets you. It doesn’t upset me in the least.
  
  “And it certainly is of NO eternal benifit to those ingauged in this mockery.”
  
  No one claimed it would be, so this seems a moot point.
  
  “I direct and after school youth program. The ultimate purpose is to get the teens into eternity with the Lord.”
  
  A noble cause, and I applaud you for it.
  
  “What is good about that at the END of the day?”
  
  You can’t force faith on someone. I accept that many people will not find belief in the Lord, but I can still see them being good, moral citizens despite that. If you can’t get someone to believe in eternal life, I’d much prefer them making this mortal life as good as possible for everyone else rather than being non-productive degenerates, no?
  
  “You accused me of being a liar… yes I did say that I was not going to respond back to any more of your _____ responces. I CHANGED my mind…”
  
  You have every right to change your mind. And it’s every bit part of the truth that you lied when you did so. Call a spade a spade, right?
  
  “Why would you purposely do something that you know/think might get the other person mad?”
  
  Because that’s how you deal with trolls? (Cont below)
  
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- Locked
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 10:57am
  @4truth2all (cont)
  
  “Pride… insults…”
  
  You have a lot of opinions on this. If calling you a cupcake offends you, I’m sorry. I explained exactly what I meant by that. When you respond with substance and on topic (like the first half of your first post), then you get substance back. When you rant and rail and moan and cry (like the next 3 and a half posts), you get quips that point out your lack of substance.
  
  “” Why do you correlate homosexuality and pedophilia”?
  I NEVER did. Not once did I refer, insinuate or alude to this.”
  
  You did, several times. By referring to homosexuals as snakes. To referring to gay troop leaders as “staring down the barrel of a gun.” When you said you would rather “err on the side of caution.”
  
  “My position was that I would not allow such person to baby sit my kids.”
  
  And why is that? You still haven’t explained why you think gays are dangerous around your kids.
  
  “So no, just because a person is homesexual they are not automatically a pedophile.”
  
  Nice strawman; no one said this or accused you of saying this. You DO know what “correlation” means, right?
  
  “However, a pedophilie is a homosexual”
  
  Nope, try again.
  
  “why would you ask me a question when I said that it was my word that I would not respond further ???”
  
  To give you something to think about. You said you were done with the conversation, but I like to leave a door open in case you lie. Er, change your mind.
  
  Report this comment
- Locked
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 11:01am
  @4truth2all
  
  “You closed by saying… “Sleep well and may God guide you”
  Sorry, but I believe this is just to make you look good (NOTHING against God at all).”
  
  Persecution complex much? No, when I ask for God to guide you, I mean it. Really really.
  
  “But thank you, because I do believe that my responce here was due to the guidence of “our” God.”
  
  Excellent, glad my prayers helped!
  
  “I am done with this discussion unless you respond with something intelligent, pertinent, non fluffy, non insulting, honest or true.”
  
  Ah, so I’ll be hearing from you again soon :-). If it’s on-topic and of substance, I look forward to a good conservation. If it’s not, I look forward to another 3 and a half comments of complaints and insults from you.
  
  “good day”
  
  God bless you!
  
  Report this comment
- 4truth2all
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 11:46am
  Yo Locked:
  
  I said: ” I am done with this discussion unless you respond with something intelligent, pertinant, non fluffy, non insluting, honest or true”.
  
  Your responce was dishonest. You twisted and outright lied about what I said and how it was applied.( but you know better than me concerning what I said = pride)You either don’t underdstand my words or you really are not so smart as you think you are, hence … not very intelligent, and a bunch of cupcake batter.
  If you consider 1 out of 20 a good record … yeah well
  My shoulder is fine …
  If I invited you to my house and you changed your mind and wanted more cupcakes … I would not be the jerk and call you a liar.
  You may now say what you will … SO WHAT ( tantrum) 3 points …
  
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- Locked
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 12:07pm
  @4truth2all
  
  Ah, I suppose it was too much to hope that you would stay on topic. If you invited me over for pancakes, I declined one and said I was leaving, and then you woke up at 3am and found me rifling through your fridge looking for pancakes because “I changed my mind,” I wouldn’t be called a liar. I’d be called a thief.
  
  Bad analogy is bad :-(
  
  Report this comment
- 4truth2all
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 1:10pm
  YO Locked:
  
  My anology was to the point of the situation … sorry you are so dull
  I did not come back later and break in after the fact … talk about off topic bad analogies.
  
  Also … I will send you a check for $100.00 … no lies !!! FOR ALL BLAZERS TO SEE … If you can prove that I said homosexuals ARE rattlesnakes. Please !!! prove me wrong … otherwise it is you that lies.
  Nothing else … since you accuse me of being OFF topic. PROVE ME WRONG … because this is a clear example of your continued foolish responces.
  I will now do as scripture says … “drop the matter”
  MY WORD … prove me wrong … otherwise, no matter how rediculus your responce is/ have been … I be seeing you …
  
  Report this comment
- Locked
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 1:35pm
  @4truth2all
  
  An accurate analogy would have been if I had been invited over, got angry, said I was leaving forever, and then showed back up to insult you. Yes, I would be a liar in that case.
  
  ” If you can prove that I said homosexuals ARE rattlesnakes. Please !!! prove me wrong … otherwise it is you that lies.”
  
  I said you referred to them as rattlesnakes, so nice strawman yet again. Your exact quote: “I never said that ALL homosexuals are pedophiles. I have only said that you don’t play with rattlesnakes.” I don’t want your money, or to “prove” I’m right – I just want you to post on topic.
  
  “I will now do as scripture says … “drop the matter””
  
  Citation?
  
  “MY WORD … prove me wrong …”
  
  Done. Have a good day!
  
  Report this comment
- binge_thinker
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 10:53pm
  Doors
  
  The words atheist and reality should never be spoken in the same sentence.
  I’ll just let prominent atheists/scientist and self-proclaimed marxist Richard Lewontin explain it to you..
  
  We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is an absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.
  
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- 4truth2all
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 10:44am
  Yo Locked:
  
  Your anology = incorrect/ ridiculous
  CAPITAL LETTERS do not indicate anger … such as ALL homosexuals
  What is the difference between calling/refering to homosexuals as rattlesnakes asyou seem to say?
  My EXACT words do not in ANY way indicate that I said HOMOSEXUALS ARE RATTLESNAKES.
  I have friends on both sides of that issue …
  My anology ,,, are you listening?, was simply to sayto NOT TAKE A CHANCE !, and I gave my reasons.
  
  Report this comment
- 4truth2all
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 10:57am
  Yo Locked;
  
  Sorry for the double post …had to reboot
  Citation? forgive my dullness, not quite sure what you refer to. You proved nothing. In fact quite the opposite. I would have been more than happy to present my posts to a fair and honest judge … you are not him … In fact our words and actions will indeed one day be judged.
  In final … when I mentioned pride … I do not believe that for my part it is meant as an insult.
  good day
  
  Report this comment
MDECKER
Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:02am
It’s a good thing the Atheists have their own church.

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JQCitizen
Posted on February 12, 2013 at 8:56am
I can’t wait to see what comes of this:

Since we are made in God’s Image, (inside and out), I can’t wait to hear of someone who bumps into the concept of God right there in that room.

After all, the need for fellowship that engages the soul and spirit, is STRAIGHT from the heart of God! The level of communion and interaction that we share is what IS the Image of God, and it is what differentiates us from all other of God’s living creation.

Don’t get yer’ panties in a wad, Atheists; It’s just a discussion:)

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- naughtycal
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:01am
  Well since the theory of evolution is was established by an atheist and used by atheist to denouce god….and atheism is now the church of atheism…..gotta remove evolution from schools seperation clause ring a bell.
  
  Report this comment
- jcldwl
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:12am
  Great point Naughty.
  
  Report this comment
- DougHuffman
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:19am
  Charles Darwin was baptized Anglican, attended Unitarian services as a child and intended to be buried in his local churchyard cemetery. After his death his peers had him buried at Westminster. As an adult and in his later years he struggled with his faith but only an hysteric damns him atheist.
  
  “I have never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God. – I think that generally … an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind.(http://web.archive.org/web/20090622215542/http://www.darwinproject.ac.uk/darwinletters/calendar/entry-12041.html)”
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:54am
  Naughtycal, . . . atheism isn’t “the church of atheism” just because a group of weirdos start up a church like this.
  
  Report this comment
- naughtycal
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 11:31am
  Wrong deavon atheism is a church when they declare themselves a church.
  And you’re right doug charles darwin was not a true atheist. However the religion of atheism uses Darwin theory as part of its beleif system. And as basicly their foundation of the belif system.
  The speration clause would still apply given that fact.
  More over given Darwins state of mind when writing the origin of man one could conclude that Darwin is angry against god sought to destroy him as the creator of the World. And his theorys sole purpose was scientific but rather a vendetta to bring disbelief to the world. Making it a religious text no different is some aspects as a satanic bible at least at its core.
  
  Report this comment
- Grubmeister
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 11:58am
  Doug,
  Good point regarding Darwin and atheism. Were that not pointed out one might be left to think he was atheistic from the beginning, generating his theories without any foundation whatsoever. To agree further, only in this universe inhabited by Beckers would Darwin be considered a “god hating”, “god does not exits” atheist. That was the understood definition of an atheist at the time Darwin lived but it cannot be used so bluntly today. Despite characterizing himself as non-atheist, a more modern understanding of theism/atheism would probably peg Darwin as atheist. That he was not theistic, he by default becomes an atheistic. I do the same for myself. Agnosticism can resemble negative atheism, depending upon how you define it.
  Darwin was a strong thinker and seriously studied the bible. Though he came to think the Bible wrong historically, he did not believe it impossible to be both a theist and an evolutionist. Correct me if I’m wrong but did Darwin not lose a good deal of his faith due to the death of his children and wife?. I don’t consider that a very good reason but I didn’t live his life either.
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 12:36pm
  Naughtycal, . . . atheism DIDN’T declare themselves a church. A few kooks did that. Show me where the mainstream atheist community has made such a declaration!
  
  And Darwin’s work isn’t a “belief system”, nor is it worshipped. Some of his initial thoughts turned out to be wrong IN THE FACE OF modern evidences. Any talk about “how angry Darwin was at god” is beside the point. It doesn’t make the decades of discovery obsolete.
  
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- Grubmeister
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 12:58pm
  @NaughtCal
  “Wrong deavon atheism is a church when they declare themselves a church.”
  Remember, this so called church is located in the UK. I think it best to let American atheists define themselves. “Atheism” has no beliefs similar to religion.
  “And you’re right doug charles darwin was not a true atheist. However the religion of atheism uses Darwin theory as part of its beleif system. And as basicly their foundation of the belif system.”
  This is a bogus statement. Evolution is not a belief of atheism, it is a natural conclusion that follows from atheism. Please attempt to consider from the perspective of the atheist. If there is no god, what explanation do we have for the current state of the universe. Evolution is the “best” theory we have, considering the fossil records and how genetic mutations work. Atheists do not begin with evolution and end with atheism.
  “More over given Darwins state of mind when writing the origin of man one could conclude that Darwin is angry against god sought to destroy him as the creator of the World. And his theorys sole purpose was scientific but rather a vendetta to bring disbelief to the world. Making it a religious text no different is some aspects as a satanic bible at least at its core.” ”
  Not sure what to do with this rambling diatribe. All I can ask is that you cite sources and we’ll go from there. To be this angry, he must have written something. Help us out here please.
  
  Report this comment
Blivit
Posted on February 12, 2013 at 8:49am
An interesting concept if they can keep it from getting subverted by anarchists or other political groups who would use it for their own ends.

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justangry
Posted on February 12, 2013 at 8:47am
“The concept of an atheist church is certainly a curious on.” Why is it curious? Should nonbelievers not feel a sense of congregation? I know several nonbelievers who attend Christian churches just for the congregation. Of course they have to hide who they are. This way they don’t have to hide.

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- conservativejon
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 8:57am
  if you have to hide the fact you are a non beliver then you are going to the wrong church. any good church welcomes non belivers to come and listen without fear of rejection or persecution. its foolish statements like this that give churchs a bad name.
  
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- 4truth2all
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:01am
  “they have to hide who they are”.
  So in other words there a bunch of fake liars … great
  
  As a “true” believer I would actually like to attend this church who’s sermon is based on “theories”. and I would make NO attempt to hide who I AM. I would be most respectful however.
  
  Report this comment
- jcldwl
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:28am
  @ conservativejon
  You are correct. Some people forget that the Church is there, not just as a place for believers to gather and worship but to also reach the non believers so that they can hear the word of God and find salvation. That is what it is all about. This extreme atheist push we are going through right now is just proving the prophecies of the bible more and more everyday and they don’t even realize what they are doing. A quote from this article.
  ” Jones recently explained. “People also love to feel part of something and in a sense you lose that when you lose God. Our view is you don’t need to believe to get that back.” They admit they lose something when they lose God but don’t think they need God to get that feeling back?
  Now they admit they are missing something without God but can’t admit they need God to get that something back. Kind of ironic isn’t it. Oh well I will just keep praying for them.
  
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- justangry
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:29am
  @conservativejon, If every Christian were as tolerant as you, I’m guessing they wouldn’t feel the need to conceal their doubts, but I can’t speak for them. The church I attended because my mother forced me to attend was a very intolerant and sanctimonious congregation.
  
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- momrules
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 12:26pm
  Morning Just………I know several non believers, two are members of my family. They do not hide their lack of faith and I do not hide my complete faith in God from them. We talk and I listen to them. We talk and they listen to me.
  
  My prayer is that they find God. He is not lost but they are. I also hope that should they live during the Tribulation they will remember every thing I have told them and be able to withstand the horrors to come with God at their side.
  
  You are in my prayers Just and you would be welcomed at my table anytime.
  
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ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 12, 2013 at 8:47am
I’ll pass on this too.

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- Zipit
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:01am
  Who cares!
  
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- 4truth2all
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:03am
  There is still hope for you …!
  
  Report this comment
- DeavonReye
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:51am
  I hear ya, Mod. I can understand the idea of people wanting to get together to talk and make like minded friends, but this “atheist church” idea is must weird. TOO much like the christian church in setup [not really a bad thing, just odd in an atheistic setting].
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 9:58am
  Uh. . . . .that should be, . . . “but this “atheist church” idea is JUST weird.
  
  To add to my post, . . . there is absolutely NO way I would sit and listen to that guy act like a “fire and brimstone preacher”, . . . seemingly to mock that style of preaching, . . . and probably wouldn’t even listen to him if he just spoke normally. I disagree with “a thousand eyes looking at one person speaking every service”. That is just “passing the time”. Not for me.
  
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- ModerationIsBest
  Posted on February 12, 2013 at 7:07pm
  I’ve never felt the need to be “part of something.”
  
  The individual is a great thing. Plus I like being around people who don’t agree with me. I like the discussions.
  
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- 4truth2all
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 5:47am
  Yo Mod:
  
  God created us as individuals, but a single stranded rope is of little strength … I am also uninclined to “join” things and enjoy my freedoms and am a very independent person, to much so sometimes. I have suspected that you and I in some ways are very much alike. Discussion is good but it should not be just for the sake of discussion.
  
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