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Pastor Rebukes Christians for Gun Worship, Encourages Less Time With ‘Hannity and O’Reilly’ (and More With the Bible)

Feb. 13, 2013 8:44am Billy Hallowell

There’s at least one pastor out there who’s not afraid to offend people on both sides of the firearms debate. Shane Idleman of Westside Christian Fellowship in Lancaster, Calif., is pro-gun ownership, but he’s also willing to speak out against some Christians whom he accuses of essentially worshipping weapons.

In a sermon that was delivered this past Sunday, the pastor derided individuals on both sides of the gun debate. He charged that both proponents of firearms control and those who hold dearly to the Second Amendment often misrepresent the issue — a phenomenon that has led to dysfunction and improper handling of the debate as a whole.

At the heart of Idleman’s message was an attempt to get to the heart of the divisive impact the discussion has had on society. Additionally, he challenged those listening to check their relationships with the Lord.

Pastor Shane Idleman of Westside Christian Fellowship Talks About Guns and Gun Control

Pastor Shane Idleman talks to his congregation about guns (Photo Credit: Vimeo)

“What concerns me is that in the Church we’re starting to use language like ‘the next Civil War,’ and that’s scary. The nation is being divided over some of these issues,” Idleman said. “Some of the terminology out there, even from Christian leaders that I’m seeing is alarming, it’s disheartening, it’s frightening. Are we actually thinking along those lines?”

However, the non-denominational preacher’s message extended beyond division and into the personal and spiritual standing of his congregants. Idleman said that he’s hearing a great deal about Remington, Smith and Wesson and Browning, but very little about essential issues like “brokenness and humility and surrender.” Rather than trusting in these weapons, the pastor reminded his flock that there’s a greater calling for believers.

“In Remington, Smith & Wesson … is that what my trust is in?,” he asked. “It sounds like it, from what I’m hearing from a lot of Christians. The trust is not in that, the trust is in God and God alone.”

Idleman did reaffirm the necessity that exists for people to defend themselves in dire situations, noting that the fact that the nation is in a lackluster moral position in which people need to prepare for self-defense is tragic. However, he was adamant about the right to appropriately use guns for protection.

Many may wonder, though, based on the preacher’s comments, if he had an agenda in delivering this controversial sermon. But Idleman told his congregation that he had prayerfully considered the message and had asked the Lord to keep him from injecting personal opinion or perspective. He also admitted that he doesn’t have “an axe to grind” on the gun front and that he merely finds himself disheartened with the overall debate.

Idleman encouraged his church to pray about the issue and to take considerations surrounding firearms back to God. In fact, a connection with the Lord, he said, is the best way to make an impact on society.

“The role of the church, your greatest weapon is going to be in the prayer closet. I can’t get that point across enough,” he continued. ”Take this topic back to the prayer closet and see what God says to you on this issue.”

Rather than listening and watching too much of “Hannity, and O’Reilly and Fox and Hume,” Idleman said that the congregation should consider spending more time with “Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.”

Watch his sermon, below:

(H/T: Christian Post)

In CONTROL, Glenn Beck presents a passionate, fact-based case for guns that reveals why gun control isn’t really about controlling guns at all; it’s about controlling us. Find out more HERE.

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Comments (329)

looters_willmeet_shooters
Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:18am
I’ve struggled with this myself. I recently came to realize that my gun safe had become a sort of altar that I was in awe of every time I opened it. Pondering on it I came to the conclusion that there are many conservatives who are “nominal Christians” and put just as much, if not more, faith in their own abilities and tools than on God, and how close I was to being one of them. As much as I have loved going to the gun show and “gearing up”, I have become increasingly uncomfortable seeing the extreme fascination and flat out idolatrous relationship many good Americans have come to have with their guns, almost as an article of the “conservative faith”. I still love taking my Glock and AR out to the range and carrying, etc. , but I have to heart-check myself regularly to make sure they have not become my counterfeit gods again.

For Christians, where you put your money and time a reflection of your heart. I think a good test is seeing if your guns are worth more than a year’s tithes. When I realized that, I started selling some gear. Had to part with a few toys I really enjoyed. If you drill dry-fires and holster draws more often than you pick up your bible at home, time for a heart check.

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- Max jones
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 10:13am
  I believe that the pastor is confused as to what “worship” is. But that is not surprising. The church is in the throes of apostasy, and has forfeited any moral high ground. More emphasis is placed on the politics of any issue than is placed on the Word.
  Capitulation is the trend, now….Go along, to get along. Modern Christianity is lost in a maze of ‘self-concern’.
  
  Report this comment
- Max jones
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 10:23am
  This preacher, most likely teaches that his flock will be “raptured out” and will not face the selfish wrath of the anti-christ…..It is NOT in the bible….anywhere…..so……..If he does, he is a false teacher, and will face judgement first.
  
  Report this comment
- Max jones
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 10:43am
  If I remember correctly, Hannity and O’Reilly are Catholic, which actually makes anything they espouse extremely suspect. Globalists all. According to the scripture, Globalism is the anti-christ’s goal, and to support globalism is to support the institution of evil. So the preacer has more in common with these two than he knows.
- edcoil
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 10:45am
  I trust that God sent me to the gun shop.
  
  Report this comment
- SquidVetOhio
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 10:54am
  “This preacher, most likely teaches that his flock will be “raptured out” and will not face the selfish wrath of the anti-christ…..It is NOT in the bible….anywhere…..so……..If he does, he is a false teacher, and will face judgement first.”
  
  It’s absolutely in the Bible. If you choose not to believe it, then fine. But the teaching of pre-tribulation rapture and the Old Testament principles supporting it. Stop spreading falsities. Just say you don’t agree with it.
  
  Explain Jesus’ parable about the 2 women working in the field and one taken away.
  
  Enoch was raptured. Elijah was raptured. Paul and John were raptured (and returned). Nice try. The world “rapture” does not appear because it is a latin based word and the NT was written in Greek.
  
  Report this comment
- Beachmastermax
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 10:59am
  @ Max Jones
  
  1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then WE WHO ARE ALIVE and remain will be “caught up” (Raptura in the Latin) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words
  
  Report this comment
- todd147
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 10:59am
  @max
  
  I agree with the pastor. I don’t think guns are the solution or the problem. The problem lies in the heart of man. If the whole world felt that way, we wouldn’t need guns. I’m actually looking forward to the Kingdom age, when trillions of dollars of military spending will be beaten into plowshares and pruning hooks. Can’t wait to try out my new trident sub tractor. As far as your point on the rapture not being mentioned in the Bible, you would have to ignore I Thes. 4:17 to come to that conclusion. You may not believe the Bible, that I understand. However you cannot say the Bible doesn’t teach about the rapture of the Church before the tribulation.
  
  Report this comment
- The_Jerk
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 11:01am
  If pastors like Shane Idleman would preach more about Christ and his life, and less about politics, perhaps our nation would be a little less screwed up.
  
  Report this comment
- TheGrtDcptn
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 11:14am
  ‘teaches that his flock will be “raptured out” and will not face the selfish wrath of the anti-christ…..It is NOT in the bible….anywhere’
  
  2 Thessalonians 2:6-8 ‘And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.’
  
  1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 ‘For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.’
  
  1 Corinthians 15:51 ‘Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall be changed – in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.’
  
  Revelation 3:10 ‘Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.’
  
  Luke 21:36 ‘Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.’
  
  Report this comment
- TheGrtDcptn
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 11:17am
  continued…
  
  1 Thessalonians 1:10 ‘… and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.’
  
  1 Thessalonians 5:9 ‘For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.’
  
  Report this comment
- naughtycal
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 11:27am
  I trust that the Lord gave me the wisdom and self responsibility to be defend my family,my neighbors and my Country should the time come when it is needed. I don’t want to reach Heaven and ask God why he allowed my unarmed family to be murdered and have him say ‘Son I gave you the means to defend yourself and you chose not to ignore it.”
  The Golden rule with all power(including firearms) is to temper it with restraint and level it with responsibility. Something that has long since died in our capital.
  
  Report this comment
- DeOppressoLiber
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 11:31am
  The Progressives will use the Bible to turn people.
  
  They do need a Progressive American Catholic as the next Pope. Then all the Catholics will follow his lead like the Pied Piper, demand gun control, social justice.
  
  Report this comment
- JRook
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 11:32am
  @Beachmastermax How is it then that the Mormons used to identify that 144,000 would be saved in their literature. A statement that has since been removed since the numbers of members has gone significantly beyond that. Never a good marketing strategy to say that only a fraction of your members will be saved.
  
  Report this comment
- DoseofReality
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 11:39am
  Ill make this simple….if anyone believes that all of a sudden thousands of people will miraculously dissappear….you serioulsy need to seek mental help and/or try to use that brain of yours. COME BACK TO REALITY!!!!
  
  Report this comment
- naughtycal
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 11:39am
  todd147,
  No sane person thinks guns are the solution neither is sticking your head in the sand and waiting while tyranny runs rampant guns are the tool that can lead to solution. If 6,000,000 jews were fulling armed and prepared to answer Hitlers final solution the holucaust won’t have happened. If 33,000,000 serfs in the USSR were armed and ready Stalins would have tasted his own blood and not worn theirs on his hands. Same goes for CHAIRMAN MAO.
  Tyranny will continue to push WEAK and government will continue to consume liberty until it gets pushed back. Bullies always go after the weak but if the weak are armed bullies chose a different target and if the weak protect that target bullies STOP.
  So you’re right guns are a solution they are the means by which solutions are brought about.
  
  Report this comment
- kadster01
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 11:44am
  “Capitulation is the trend, now….Go along, to get along.”
  
  It has been for some time. Read Beck’s book “Cowards.” One chapter lays out the major denominations that supported the Communist Party in America in the early part of the 20th century, sympathizing with the cause of “social justice” and the like. The established church is, and has been, infiltrated by the enemy. That was part of the plan and it is succeeding.
  
  Report this comment
- usedCZARsalesman
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 11:44am
  When you start to argue the idea of “God will provide” (in the context of defeating tyranny with firearms) remember the old atheist argument of, “if God is so powerful and just, why do babies die? Why do good people get murdered? Why do churches get hit by tornados?”…
  
  God WILL NOT (IMO, obviously I can’t speak for the Almighty) stop a DHS agent from putting one of the BILLIONS of hollow point rounds they have recently purchased into your brain…I’m betting there have been MILLIONS of Christians, that were far more faithful than we are, that have died at the hands of evil men even AS they prayed for help. To assume that the Lord does NOT want you to use your weapons to defend yourself is an assumption that I’m not willing to make.
  
  Report this comment
- DeOppressoLiber
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 11:47am
  The progressives would love this guy
  
  http://www.trevorloudon.com/2013/02/popes-possible-successor-promotes-marxist-for-sainthood/
  
  Just like Reagan, Thatcher, and JP II brought down the Soviets and the Iron Curtain, the Obama, Pope Dolan thing would be tough on freedom and liberty.
  
  Report this comment
- Dan_o
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 11:48am
  Looters, I couldn’t help but chuckle at your introspection given your moniker and I agree with you. However, what you say is true of ANY idol we may covet before God; tv, money, food, etc. I don’t think being prepared to defend yourself, even from tyranny, shows a lack of faith. If anything, it may prove your faith in the things spoken of that have not come to pass.
  
  Our politicians are subverting the law and the constitution. They are themselves lawbreakers and as such, we are not beholden to them. That is/was the beauty of our country.
  
  Having said all of that, what we should not do is worry. God is sovereign over all things and nothing happens outside of His will. There’s a fine line between being worried and being prepared and if we don’t lose our focus on Christ, we should not be ashamed for being prepared.
  
  Report this comment
- Twinspeedr
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 11:52am
  Amen Brother.
  This guys is dead on, although I would just add that we should be spending time daily reading our WHOLE Bible. After all; ‘the end is revealed out of the beginning’ as Isaiah 46:10 teaches us. Limiting our Scripture reading to short stints with the familiar, happy “comfort passages” in the Gospels and Epistles does not help us to know the truth In fact it does little more than to prop up the doctrines that the church has pushed on us for 2000 years. Remember, the vast majority of the “Church Fathers” that gave us the Scriptural doctrines and interpretations that we know today, were actually just the politicians and power-brokers of their day, hiding behind faith as a means of controlling and taxing a populace. Each of us will be standing alone when we answer for our deeds at the Throne of Judgement, your pastor/priest/rabbi will not be there with you. If this concerns you; you must make your personal doctrine truly “yours”, and that involves real prayerful study of the entire Word of God.
  
  Pray, read, think, pray.
  
  His truth will find you!
  
  HalleluYah! :-)
  
  Report this comment
- Brad Orton
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 11:59am
  It’s pretty sad when preachers make statements that are not supported by the bible scriptures. It is true that there are times when the bible speaks against weapons, but there are also times when Jesus instructed his disciples to purchase swords (Luke 22: 36-39). Not one scripture in the bible teaches against self-defense or defending your family from harm. Jesus also said this “Think not that I come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword (Matthew 10:34). Peter also had a sword and used it (John 18:10). Defending your family and keeping them safe is your responsibility. In the modern age a sword is useless against a gun. Therefore, it is necessary to own a gun to keep your family safe from those who desire to do them harm. If this minister is telling the truth then God would not have helped the Israelites to destroy their enemies. David would not have slain the giant with his sling…. This minister needs to go back and study the scriptures again.
  
  Report this comment
- sillyfreshness
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 12:22pm
  Alex Jones has a story about how preachers are supposed to be stooges of the Obama administration and turn in people that have guns or watch Fox. It’s just like living in Stalin’s Soviet Union or North Korea of today.
  
  Report this comment
- Beachmastermax
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 12:22pm
  @Rook
  
  I am not a Mormon (but I married one) so I am not able to speak for them. My understanding of the 144,000 mentioned is that they are Jews that become “Born Again” and are the Evangelist during the tribulation. This also gives credence to the pre- trib rapture belief, by them being used, that the Church (or the bride of Christ ) has been removed.
  
  Report this comment
- Melvin Spittle
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 12:25pm
  I got hit with a truth bullet right in the gut. I see the truth of his message that is supported by scripture. Step two is to read the complete context in my KJB and pray in order to confirm what I am hearing and reading, that it is complete, and to develop additional relative revelations through my personal relationship with God.
  
  I believe his sermon was inspired by scripture and prayer and not influenced by a selfish agenda.
  We are all sinners. The fact that some look for evidence to discredit the preacher in light of the scriptural reference he gives to support his sermon can blind one from the truth.
  
  Report this comment
- huufarted
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 1:28pm
  Well said!
  
  Report this comment
- Derek01
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 1:57pm
  Must be the pastor of The Church of Perpetual Victims, these types of churches always die out over time,
  
  Report this comment
- FROTHYDISCHARGE
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 2:32pm
  @JROOK man you need to open your basement windows. Once again you’ve got your Bible bashing mixed up. You’re referring to the Jehovah’s Witnesses not the Mormons on the 144,000.
  
  Report this comment
- lillymckim
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 2:34pm
  He lives in Cali… nuff said.
  
  Report this comment
- Maji
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 2:45pm
  Reminds me of a story…short version.
  
  A man was trapped on a rooftop during a flood, the man was devout.
  A man shows up in a boat….no.. god will save me!
  A man shows up in a helocopter..No!.. god will save me!
  The man evenually drowns and goes to heaven, comes before God and says why! Why didn’t you
  save me!!
  God said…Dang man!!….. I sent you a boat and a helocopter!!!!
  
  God let me understand about Smith&Wesson!!!!
  
  Report this comment
- Bearfoot
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 4:09pm
  Revelation chapters 7 and 14 is where the 144,000 sealed ones are mentioned as to their number.
  
  Report this comment
- Thomas
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 4:10pm
  What about Hitler and the NAZI in Germany? I guess what he is saying is that the Jewish people deserved what they got and God had forsaken them? If God forsook the Jewish people what would his faith be in that god? I guess just because they don’t embrace his supposed superior interpretation of the bible and that is why they died? This man is a propagandist who is trying to use the bible to hide his true intentions.
  
  Report this comment
- iampraying4u
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 4:30pm
  Yes it is scary that we have a ******** commie for prez
  
  Report this comment
- Theodious
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 4:37pm
  I don’t own guns because I have lost contact with God or need something to worship. I have guns because bad guys have lost contact with God and need something to fear.
  
  Report this comment
- glassaudioguy
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 6:38pm
  @THEGRTDCPTN- Notice that the 1Cor. passage says the LAST trumpet. Best I can tell that’s in Rev. 11. For there to be a pre-trib rapture, you’d end up with more than one last trumpet. None of the verses you cited prove the church leaves before the tribulation. Rev. 3:10 only applied to the Philadelphia church, the last of which died out before their area was finally overrun with the Muslim hordes.
  
  Report this comment
- Max jones
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 7:43pm
  Squid veto….The first one taken is taken at the 6th trump, believing the anti-christ is Jesus himself…..The one left in the field is left to confront evil, in Christ’s name….
  Before 1833 there was never a mention of ‘rapture’, which surely appears NOWHERE in the scriptures. If you are open minded you may get something out of this…..
  http://www.preteristarchive.com/dEmEnTiA/1975_macpherson_incredible-coverup.html
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 7:52pm
  @SQUID……”Enoch was raptured. Elijah was raptured. Paul and John were raptured (and returned).
  
  No ….Enoch was taken ….Genesis 5:24 And E’noch kept walking with the true God. Then he was no more, for God took him.
  Hebrews 11:5 By faith E’noch was transferred so as not to see death, and he was nowhere to be found because God had transferred him;…….
  
  Enoch was one of the “so great a cloud of witnesses” who were outstanding examples of faith in ancient times. “Enoch kept walking with the true God.” (Ge 5:18, 21-24; Heb 11:5; 12:1) As a prophet of Jehovah, he foretold God’s coming with His holy myriads to execute judgment against the ungodly. (Jude 14, 15) Likely persecution was brought against him because of his prophesying. However, God did not permit the opposers to kill Enoch. Instead, Jehovah “took him,” that is, cut short his life at the age of 365, an age far below that of most of his contemporaries. Enoch was “transferred so as not to see death,” which may mean that God put him in a prophetic trance and then terminated Enoch’s life while he was in the trance so that he did not experience the pangs of death. (Ge 5:24; Heb 11:5, 13) However, he was not taken to heaven, in view of Jesus’ clear statement at John 3:13. It appears that, as in the case of Moses’ body, Jehovah disposed of Enoch’s body, for “he was nowhere to be found.”—De 34:5, 6; Jude 9.
  
  John 3:13 Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descen
  
  Report this comment
- ltb
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 7:56pm
  I haven’t watched the news since about 11:00PM on November 6, 2012 – the last thing I heard was “Barrack Obama has been reelected.” Truly ignorance is bliss, and I figure if there are enough clueless people in America to re-elect a charlatan like Obama, I couldn’t care less what happens to this country. I tend to agree with the pastor, though, because I found myself being infuriated by how Obama is destroying America, which demonstrated a profound lack of faith on my part. If it’s God’s will for America to be destroyed, so be it.
  
  Report this comment
- Max jones
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 8:04pm
  Squid….Big difference between transfiguration and “rapture” Count to seven….6 comes first, then seven.
  Satan appears at the sixth trump, and Christ returns at the seventh trump. The ‘elect’ are delivered up, that means they are NOT “raptured” out. We are to be watchmen, what are you watching for? Clouds?
  despite what the Roman church wants you to believe, NOT ONE of the scriptures was written in LATIN.
  Beachmaster…. the word ‘air’ in this verse, is PNEUMA….or ‘breath’, not SKY. breath of life, or SPIRIT. Think about it …how are you gonna witness against the anti-christ if you’re not here?Doesn’t make sense does it? You need this too…..http://www.preteristarchive.com/dEmEnTiA/1975_macpherson_incredible-coverup.html
  TODD….Read this(about 5 minutes) http://theseason.yolasite.com/
  
  Report this comment
- Max jones
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 8:10pm
  Captain Revelation 3:10 ‘Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.’
  
  Luke 21:36 ‘Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.’
  
  Neither of these verses say you won’t be here, but that the armor of Christ is yours for the asking.
  
  All of the other verses, you noted, explain the events at the SEVENTH trump Anti-christ comes at the sixth. How could the ‘elect’ be delivered up, if they have ‘flown away’? Explain that!
  
  Report this comment
- Max jones
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 8:22pm
  DEOPRESSLIBER….You Have hit the nail on the head……The U.S. is the last(powerful) stronghold of gospel Christianity. We must be marginalized, so the globalist Roman church can ‘PROGRESS’ with her agenda. Gun repression is necessary for this to come about. Satan’s (anti-christ) global government IS a theocracy. And the Catholic church IS the whore of babylon, set on seven hills.
  http://www.remnantofgod.org/Rev17.12.htm
  
  Report this comment
- Max jones
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 8:25pm
  CAPTAIN……You want to skip out. You are afraid to face the devil in Christ’s name? Maybe your faith is not what you think..
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 8:53pm
  @TODD…..”However you cannot say the Bible doesn’t teach about the rapture of the Church before the tribulation.”
  
  The Bible doesn’t teach about the rapture of the Church before the tribulation.” I said it.
  Revelation 7:14
  
  Report this comment
- INTHEBROTHERHOOD
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 8:57pm
  @ squidvetohio…..your wrong….sorry to put it like that. But there will be no rapture. We will be here to oppose the antichrist…the devil .but we will be protected. Just as we are now. I’m afraid you need a little more understanding of the versus you quoted in order to gain wisdom. Do not get caught up in the rapture gospel. As far as guns…..not nessesary for those who believe.
  
  Report this comment
- Max jones
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:02pm
  One more word on the FALSE doctrine of the pre-trib RAPTURE of the church. Just remember that Satan comes BEFORE the return of Christ. Satan-6th seal, 6th trump, 6th vial….Christ– 7th seal, 7th trump and 7th vial. Don’t be deceived!
  
  Report this comment
- Max jones
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:07pm
  JROOK….That is 12,000 from each tribe, 10 of which are populating the U.S and Europe, in our modern world….Only the tribe of Judah and Benjamin remain in geographical Israel, to this day.
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:14pm
  JHOOK “Never a good marketing strategy to say that only a fraction of your members will be saved.”
  
  You confuse being saved with going to heaven. I thought Jesus said in Matthew 5:5 “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.”
  Psalms 37:29 The righteous themselves will possess the earth,
  And they will reside forever upon it. (Psalms 37:10,11,29)
  
  unless you are of that number of anointed, holy ones, little flock, 144,000 They shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him for a thousand years. Revelation 20:6
  
  The “other sheep” or “the great crowd” Revelation 20:9-14 John 10:16
  
  Report this comment
- Max jones
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:16pm
  elation 7:14
  
  V
  
  And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
  
  Report this comment
- dmerwin
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:43pm
  Old west quote.
  “God created man, Sam Colt made them equal”.
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:53pm
  @MAX…..”That is 12,000 from each tribe, 10 of which are populating the U.S and Europe, in our modern world….Only the tribe of Judah and Benjamin remain in geographical Israel, to this day.”
  
  You are correct the ten tribes of the northern kingdom were scattered around 750 bce but………..
  The 144,000 is symbolic. There was no tribe of Joseph and the tribe of Levi had no tribal territory in Israel they were priest. The tribe of Manasseh was given two areas of territory. Revelation 6:4 says out of every tribe of the sons of Israel but Revelation 5:9,10 says out of every tribe tongue and people and nation. That would be Spiritual Israel or the Israel of God a new creation. Galatians 6:15,16
  Galatians 3:7-9 Abraham’s seed
  
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- Max jones
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:58pm
  GREENWOOD…correct on all points.
  
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- WRZ_79
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 10:39pm
  @max read 1Thessalonians 4:16-17.
  
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- Wolfgang the Gray
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 10:52pm
  My guns are tools, just like my hammer, wrench, & screwdriver. I don’t worship them, but I do take care of them because maybe someday I won’t be able to get a new one. I keep them for their designed uses. I wouldn’t expect God to drive nails into wood for me in place of my hammer. Sometimes bad things happen so I am prepared.
  
  As for the reasons people are using words like “New Civil War”…
  
  “When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
  
  We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness….” Declaration of Ind
  
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- DLV
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 1:03am
  Let me just say to all on this rapture debate. Dan 0 and I were talking about this on another article but it is not really an issue that should bring each other to our throats. If the rapture happens it happens if not okay. The point is we will be going to heaven one way or another. Disagreements are fine but nothing to get hyped over. do not get divided, stand strong and face the true enemy.
  
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- NogodNojesus
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 1:33am
  Uzedcarsalesman, then why is he god in the first place? If he can stop these things but doesn’t, then why do i even need to worship him in the first place? Your god is bogus. I am better than it for the simple fact that if I see an innocent baby suffering, I will stop that suffering. If I see a woman being raped, I will stop that rape. If I see an animal in need of help, I will offer that help. Your god is either weak, it doesn’t care, or it simply doesn’t exist. Any way you put it, it doesn’t deserve my worship or my praise. You people are the fools who follow it.
  
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- girlnurse
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 4:53am
  Nogod: you are a spiritual being having a human experience and you don’t even know it. Why should God interfere? He can if He wanted to…and He did, when He sent Jesus. But death is not what you think it is. It will be wonderful for us Christians. And life doesn’t end. You WILL spend eternity somewhere…the temporary pain of this world wont even compare to what God has in store for His children!
  2 Corinthians 4:17 “For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all”.
  On the other topic: David had a weapon (slingshot)..and God was okay with that. EVERYTHING in this world has the potential to become an idol. Good things, like children, cars, jobs, and anything we put before God. He told us to stay away from idols..(it’s actually not easy)…I need to seek Him more too. Look how we focus so much on this world?? When we constantly look at this dumb news and worldy gunk! God help us to put YOU first!
  
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- Brad Orton
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 5:07am
  This is the perfect example that proves that many ministers do not know the bible scriptures. If this preacher is telling the truth then why did Jesus instruct his disciples to purchase swords (Luke 22:36)? It should also be noted that Simon Peter had a sword and used it (John 18:10). There is not one scripture in the bible that teaches that we should not protect our families from harm. Self-defense has never been condemned. If this preacher is telling the truth then why did God protect the Israelites in battle? If David was not armed with a sling shot then how would he have killed Goliath (1 Samuel 17: 45-51). It needs to be remembered that Jesus also said this: “Think not that I come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword” (Matthew 10:34). In modern times a sword would be useless against someone who is armed with a gun. It is our responsibility to protect our families and keep them safe from harm. How would this be possible if only the evil people had the weapons? There is not one scripture in the bible that teaches God’s faithful followers not to defend themselves. This preacher needs to learn the scriptures before he opens his mouth.
  
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- boba
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 7:38am
  WOW. I have been wrestling with this as well the last few days and to see this article really amazes me. I really needed to hear this as I can spend lots of time looking at different guns on the internet and the amount of money I have wasted on buying and selling guns just so I could try them out is shamefull. This is my heart check. Thank you God for helping me see what I need to change in my life.
  
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- techengineer11
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 8:22am
  Max jones
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 10:13am
  
  Love those first few posts.. Obviously a man of wisdom. I don’t think the good pastor would have much of a problem with seeing Christians lined up and executed as long as they are humble about it.. Indeed a nice little sheeple slaughter is what this fool is advocating..
  
  You’re also right on about Hannity and Oreilly.. They never raise concern over multicult and globalism.. They are just find with those ideas as long as their Church has the power over the masses. That’s why I can barely listen to the insane bastards. Especially Oreilly.
  
  Thomas: Why are you so concerned about the Jews? What about the 6-10 million Ukranians’ starved to death by their Marxist Jewish Commissars in the Holodomor? I understand Mr. Spielberg has not informed the masses of ignnoramuses about that aspect of history and therefore you are clueless but that doesn’t prevent a man from reading and studying a little.. You don’t have to wait to be fed everything from your “chosen” masters you know.. Just because they say you are their catttle doesn’t mean that you have to act like their cattle.
  
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- Ginnygudermuth
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 5:11pm
  My house is worth more than a years tithe too. Should I sell it? Of course, I’m giving up Fresca because I can’t seem to get through a day without it. Once I get that licked I’ll give up freecell. I spend way too much time playing that. As a very devout Christian I know that the second amendment was included to protect us from tyranny. I sincerely believe that our government in Washington is becoming more tyranical with each passing year.
  
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- Brad Orton
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 9:26pm
  BEACHMASTERMAX…you have your denominations mixed up. The 144,000 is a theory taught by the Jehovah Witnesses or maybe the Seventh-Day Adventists….not the Mormons…
  
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- blazer809
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 11:57pm
  Ok, took about 2:50sec….Jokers like this “preacher” and yourself might want to study up on American history, the Bible and a father’s responsibilities. I agree, Everyone needs more time reading the bible…….but wonder why “guns” are the item this preacher chooses to use, hmmmm? Wonder if God was around when this Country was founded? How did we actually come to have our great Nation? Please, “dont rock the boat, luke warm preacher guy”, tell us.
  
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- Onepoint
  Posted on February 16, 2013 at 12:25pm
  Sometime I wonder if some people get the core issue debate about liberty,( guns or not), vs govt/ majority infringements. Its not the object that is held in esteem, its the idea it protects, being is freedom, which is a gift bestowed from God.
  
  With what I guard my ability to defend that gift, whether it be with my speech, a firearm, jedi mind tricks or whatever is irrelevant to what is being defended. The rhetoric about war and violence is not about any objects of contention, but about the ideas of freedom and inalienable rights bestowed by our creator and how far you will go to defend it. You cannot cede those to be privileges meted out by other men who become defacto gods with out it being an affront to God.
  
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- SamFox
  Posted on February 16, 2013 at 2:21pm
  I read the article & conclude that each of must pray & decide for ourselves. Read Ephesians 6 in the Amplified Bible at BibleGateWay.com
  
  You will find that we fight not ONLY with flesh & blood, but also with spiritual dominions. Because of the one word for one word translations, many Christians think that our fight is only with the spiritual forces satan has arrayed against mankind, especially followers of Yeshua Messiah.
  
  Forgotten all to often is that satan also uses people to ‘channel’/manifest his evil will. Sometimes the vessels are just those who have know clue who they are working for, like a house breaker or street thug. Other times satan uses people in high places of authority, like those who deride &/or ignore & pervert the US Constitution.
  
  Next post I’ll deal with one of satan’s big achievements, the insertion of the pre-trib rapture doctrine into Church theology. I note that there are some posts in that regard that need addressing..
  
  SamFox
  
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- SamFox
  Posted on February 16, 2013 at 3:27pm
  Pre trib R, not true. The Book says AC comes before Messiah @ 6th trump & HE comes after 7th. II Thess 4:3 says apostasy, falling away of Christians from the faith, comes before His return [coming/appearance].
  
  Read the Amplified’s parable of wheat & tares/darnel. What Yeshua say about “I will raise him/them up at the LAST day.” KNOW what ‘endures to the end’ means & ‘they loved not their lives unto death.’ PTR is NOT the end!
  
  Thess. does NOT say we go to heaven. That’s an assumption.
  
  See the Amplified Version @ BibleGateWay.com read I Thess 5:10, II Thess 2:8, I Tim. 6:14-15, II Tim 4:8, Titus 2:13, Col 3:4
  
  Look up Rev 13:10 & 18, 14:12. Rev 2:10 as well.
  
  Prove the original languages say there are ‘trib saints’. No such thing. Show ANY direct statement that Jesus is coming 2 more times & He leaves a future part of HIS church/Body behind.
  
  PTR teaching is built ENTIRELY on esiogesis. NO verse, using exegesis, proves a 2 stage 2nd advent. Not ONE verse on it’s face can be used to prove this false teaching. ALL PTR teaching depends on assumption & laying preconceived meaning on the verse.
  
  Search: Difference Between Exegesis & Esiogesis.
  
  Build relationship w/Poppa. Be ready for the end & all will work out. Ps 91. Walk daily with HIM & study His Word, it won’t matter WHEN He comes. You will be ready for what ever. He alone is our focus. NOT something He may do.
  
  Be ready to reject the mark. He comes 1st, no worries, just be ready f
  
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- JQP
  Posted on February 16, 2013 at 5:07pm
  Doseofreality: They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. 2 Thess 2:10-12.
  
  Just like a thief is unable to find a policeman, the same reason applies to why you can’t find the truth. YOU’RE NOT LOOKING FOR IT.
  
  Mankind has kicked God out of our laws, our schools, our government, our culture, our society, our education, our science, our medical professions, our cures, our entertainment, our news, and our daily lives, and you wonder why God isn’t doing the good things you expect a good God to do? God is gentlemen. He will not stay where he is not wanted. So, when God leaves, Satan walks in and he is NOT a gentleman, and will wreak havoc on God’s creation because that’s his goal, to make all mankind believe that there is no God or God doesn’t care about us. God Almighty loved us so much He was willing to send His Son to Earth in human form to pay the FULL price for our sins, but He will not violate the free will he gave to mankind. So it’s up to each individual to decide whether he/she wants to be cleansed through Christ Jesus’ sacrifice, suffering, shed blood, death, burial, and resurrection, by accepting Him as Lord and Savior, or reject him so that you will have to pay for your own sin on judgment day. It’s up to you doseofreality, and no one el
  
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- smv803
  Posted on February 16, 2013 at 5:32pm
  @Dan_O….you make a lot of sense brother! God did say “let not your heart be troubled.”
  
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- smv803
  Posted on February 16, 2013 at 5:37pm
  1 Thessalonians 5:17. Pray continually
  
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- ChildOfTheKing
  Posted on February 16, 2013 at 6:24pm
  http://www.vanshaver.com/why_i_carry_a_gun.htm
  
  When I became a TRUE follower of Christ, according to HIS instructions in the Bible, I asked God for MORE WISDOM. In the many years I have studied the Bible, God saw fit to provide me with HIS knowledge and wisdom about every day life and important issues. THIS INCLUDES DEFENDING MY HOME AND FAMILY. God does NOT reward STUPIDITY. Therefore, I will use a gun in my home to defend myself against intruders.
  
  There is a lack of GODLY WISDOM today in Christians. And, I can only think that it is because they are only believing the Sunday morning sermons and NOT relying on the WHOLE WORD OF GOD to feed them. NEVER TAKE YOUR PASTOR’S WORD FOR ANYTHING until you look it up in the Bible yourself. Pray on it first and if that deep sense inside of you says there is something not quite right about what your Pastor is saying, talk to him/her. If you still feel unsettled about it, then find a new Church. GOD WILL LEAD YOU TO ONE. Just because someone has the word, “PASTOR” in front of their name, DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE SANCTIONED BY GOD.
  
  YOU SHALL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS.
  If anyone tells you that you should not defend yourself and your home with anything available, including a gun, THEN move away from that person.
  PROUD TO BE A FOLLOWER OF JESUS CHRIST.
  PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN.
  PROUD TO BE AN NRA MEMBER.
  PROUD TO BE A GUN(s) OWNER.
  I am awaiting for HIS return at any time, it matters not to me. I AM READY.
  
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- Dr Vel
  Posted on February 18, 2013 at 4:03am
  SquidVetOhio “Stop spreading falsities. Just say you don’t agree with it.”
  
  “Explain Jesus’ parable about the 2 women working in the field and one taken away.”
  
  Practice what you preach. Do the same yourself. He does not believe in pre trib rapture. Neither do I. Just say you do not agree with it instead of making false accusations spreading falsities against Him. False accusations are the very M.O. of satan. Is this who you emulate? Try staying on the important topic and stop turning this into a useless rapture fight. A story which first began in 1830 with the so called pastors of Margaret Mc Donald. She herself said the vision was terribly evil. Look it up.
  
  “Explain Jesus’ parable about the 2 women working in the field and one taken away.”
  
  Quite simple actually. The false christ comes first, the antichrist, Greek for ‘instead of Christ’. The one taken away was taken by the antichrist because she believed he was the true Christ. The second stayed working in the field. “Blessed is he who I find working in the field when I return”, paraphrasing the true Christ. The Word does not contradict itself. When Christ returns He expects to find His children still working in the field. The great falling away occurs because so many thought the first was the real, they cannot worship the real if the are deceived. “I hate those who teach my children to fly to save their souls” said the Lord. It is written haven’t you read it?
  
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- kengie
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 9:21am
  Infiltrate the NRA..Hannity is a homosexual.
  
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LKZ
Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:18am
I put my faith in Christ and Christ alone. But it seems like it is wrong to sit back and not stand up for our rights. Once they start whittling away at our rights, they will whittle away at all of our rights. Power against the people can only grow when rights like speech, guns, religion, warrants etc are limited out of existence.
Can’t you see some weird wild event occurring associated with religion and suddenly, the powers that be deciding that we need to restrict religion because it causes strife.
They might decide that you can attend church, but not speak about faith to others. They might decided you can not teach children about God until they are 18. They might decide you can have freedom of worship (go to church) but you can not have freedom of religion (living your faith).
And speech, look how much trouble speech causes–shouldn’t we try to control that–if it would save one life.

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- girlnurse
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 12:30pm
  I agree. A good book called “Tortured for Christ” tells about the evils of communism. Many souls die needlessly under it. I do believe God would want us to fight against tyranny and government oppression. He would probably want us to fight against killing millions of babies in the womb too…but sadly we fail:(
  
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- ChildOfTheKing
  Posted on February 16, 2013 at 6:34pm
  @LKZ: VERY well said.
  
  I am also a devout follower of Christ and I use GODLY WISDOM while walking in LOVE.
  If anyone is led by the Holy Spirit of God, then they will KNOW that the power of God will tell them to defend themselves – yes, with even a gun. The problem with a lot of people is THEY DO NOT KNOW GOD AND THEREFORE, THEY ARE EITHER AGAINST GUNS OR ARE ON SATAN’S SIDE.
  
  LIFE is the key word. Someone who enters your home uninvited IS NOT OF GOD, BUT OF SATAN and is EVIL. Therefore, GOD GIVES ME THE RIGHT TO DEFEND ME AND MY HOME. It is too
  bad that I will have to shoot the person and I will never feel good about it, BUT IT IS A RIGHT I HAVE THAT IS GIVEN TO ME BY GOD – not man. GOD GIVES RIGHTS, NOT MAN.
  
  If someone feels they are against defending themselves in their home, then that is up to them, but THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO TELL ME THAT I CANNOT HAVE A GUN TO DEFEND MYSELF. GOD GIVES RIGHTS – NOT MAN.
  
  It all boils down to COMMON SENSE and LIFE.
  MURDER is wrong because it is initiated by a sinful person who does not know God.
  KILLING SOMEONE OUT OF SELF-DEFENSE IS NOT MURDER.
  
  When people understand the difference between the two, then their common sense will kick in.
  
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PA_Iraq_Vet
Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:16am
God will not protect me from criminals are harm. You can trust him to to do, I trust my Sig.

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- Constitutionalist Lineman
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 10:24am
  Kind of remindes me of the old joke about the guy stranded on the island praying for god to save him and three boats come by, each time the man turns them away saying that god will provide for his safety. Weeks later the man dies of stravation and when he meets god at the pearly gates he says I prayed for you to save me and you let me die, why? God looks at him and say I sent you three boats stupid.
  
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hauschild
Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:16am
Uh, how’s about less time with progressive preachers???

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- The_Cabrito_Goat
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:44am
  Here’s what I think he meant: don’t be overly materialistic, trust the words of Him over Hannity and O’Reily (I already do) and just read the good book again.
  
  I’m sure there’s at least one bible in every home. Let’s read it again, yah?
  
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- americansfightingforcommonsense
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:54am
  Can anyone say Social Justice? These progressive preachers don’t seem to understand how we became a FREE nation and how many lives were lost in order to establish our rights and our constitution. We can not allow ourselves to go backwards. Our rights came from God, but men want to take them away!
  
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- Melvin Spittle
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 12:41pm
  I think many are missing the point of his message which is not to over react to the pumped up boogeymen that are created to keep us divided. It is not how many or what type of guns you own. It is why you own them and what is in your heart. It is not just guns either. Anything that one desires that places God second is corrupt. I can own an armory and still be right with God or I can own a single gun and be wrong.
  
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- The_Cabrito_Goat
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 12:43pm
  Very true. Our prosperities we enjoy today are because of, not in spite of, the tenets of Christ.
  
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- Dr Vel
  Posted on February 18, 2013 at 4:22am
  Search utube for “fema pastors”, you will find it enlightening.
  
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SamIamTwo
Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:16am
“Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven. . .” (Mt. 5:19). Who and what was Christ talking to and about?

Exodus 22:2-3 tells us: “If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. If the sun has risen on him, there shall be guilt for his bloodshed. He should make full restitution; if he has nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.”

Christ’s rebuke was to those who were the religious leaders, “an eye for an eye” was taken from Exodus 21:24-25, which deals with how the magistrate must deal with a crime. Namely, the punishment must fit the crime. When Christ spoke he would tell the leaders, “it is written”…meaning the law states.

Christ did not come to break the law to bridge the law between God and man. He is the fulfillment of the law that man could never live up to…so I am pretty certain it is OK to have weapons to protect yourselves.

And there is more if you want to do your own study…LOL

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- justsayin456
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:42am
  A clear example of religion being used to justify the abandonment of reason in order to “validate” one’s own beliefs.
  
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- Max jones
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 10:16am
  SAMIAM…..Excellent post!!!
  
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- TheGrtDcptn
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 10:45am
  ‘A clear example of religion being used’
  
  Perhaps you could have a valid point, IF God was a religion…
  
  God is neither a religion, nor a structure…
  
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- ChildOfTheKing
  Posted on February 16, 2013 at 6:38pm
  Oh you said it so plainly and perfectly. Jesus came to FULFILL the law, not to replace it.
  
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searching for the Truth
Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:15am
Yeah, still, Peter was carrying.

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- SamIamTwo
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:26am
  After Paul robbed him?
  
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- searching for the Truth
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 10:04am
  The analogy of the expression, ” To rob Peter to pay Paul,” suggests a third party, of which, Paul took no part in.
  
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- Max jones
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 10:26am
  Christ told his apostles to procure weapons…..
  
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- searching for the Truth
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 11:33am
  @ Jones : I’m certain Jesus was aware of the Apostle Peter’s flare, and Peter’s Sword Permit ; otherwise, God would have not allowed Peter to carry it. But, Peter was also appraised of the Sacrifice that Jesus had to make for our Salvation, and should have never used violence to correct His capture ( I Prefer Surrender ) by Roman troops . The ” Sword.” Many references are made to the Sword in the Word – in the natural, and in the Spiritual. They Both converge on the Absolute – whereas, in the natural, we defend our loved ones – for what manner of man or beast will not defend his or its offspring. In the Spiritual, we are admonished to defend our loved ones by the Scripture, ” those who do not provide for their family , their faith is that of an infidel.” To be a Third Witness, I have seen horrible atrocities committed by man, that one would be compelled to intervene by any means necessary. In Job, it is written that , ” But, if they obey not , they shall perish by the sword, and they shall die without knowledge.” In Matthew, Jesus says, ” Put up again thy sword into his place: For all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. ” If the thief of the night comes after man and family with a weapon, its intentions are clearly understood – just as many or more inferences can be made to persevere with a weapon as without one. I, I live by the Word ( Sword ), and I will die with the Sword ( Word ) by any means possible.
  
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- Max jones
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 8:38pm
  Searchingfor truth…..Jesus admonished his apostles to defend their lives, as he had commissioned them with a great and important work…..and he was aware that the Kenites who were conspiring against him would gladly kill all of them, If they ever got the chance.
  
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seek.the.truth
Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:15am
Put God first…….yes, but protecting my family is very important. I think I understand what he is trying to say, but he must realize that there are a lot of Godly people that would fight to the death for love of family and country.

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- Max jones
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 10:28am
  I don’t trust this “pastor”, he seems foolish.
  
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MGrilla
Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:13am
When did Rick Scott become a preacher?

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MGrilla
Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:12am
I wonder what his advise would have been to Black Robed Regiment, or Peter Muhlenberg, or our founding fathers who said…. The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference – they deserve a place of honor with all that’s good.
George Washington
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/g/georgewash146838.html#qXFzGCH1Dd5su9iE.99

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vaman
Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:10am
This guy eludes to a very good point. The fundamentalist christian church and its followers do push for a civil war, revolution type scenario and defend that idea with vague biblical quotations and a feeling of self-aggrandized righteousness. Of course, they talk a big game, but never do anything. This good versus evil war the christian extremist always wants to occur, but never has the courage of his conviction to start, will never happen. The evangelical church has easily convinced it parishioners that except for them, there is a moral decay in the world and they have the only way to fix it. It’s a patently false notion, but their church keeps advising these simple people and those people keep listening.

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- Gonzo
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:19am
  I guess I missed that sermon. My guess is that you did too.
  
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- vahunters
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:22am
  You must be a govt troll trying to incite some poor soul who is hopped up on psychotropic drugs to create the next trajedy so the administration can springboard more anti-liberty laws into place.
  
  You know nothing about Christianity other than what you see on MSNBC or the Discovery channel.
  
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- SamIamTwo
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:25am
  Let me know when you reach the age of 64 that things are not in a state of decay. Have you not paid enough for DoD rust prevention…how is that local infrastructure treating you. LMAO.
  
  The population, as you are well aware, is not being properly managed. Beautification of road ways does not improve commute time, but did waste taxpayers funds…trying to herd people to city is beginning to work, but very costly. We worked hard at that in the 60′s…right or wrong it is still the push. Unless, of course, you don’t have a down payment for a home and want to live in the country, then the USDA will give you a mortgage with no down payment for a country lifestyle (in over their heads in debt). Yeah. LMAO.
  
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- jman-6
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:30am
  Vaman-Let’s use the broadest brush in the bucket! I must say that as a Christian biblical fundamentalist I don’t know of any pastors fomenting civil war. There’s a BIG difference between stating you’ll protect your GOD given rights than openly calling for civil war. Just because someone calls ones self a Christian doesn’t make it so!
  
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- Gonzo
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:31am
  Yea, you really nailed me. You know nothing about the Evangelical church if you think revolution is being preached from the pulpit.
  
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- SquidVetOhio
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:36am
  “The fundamentalist christian church and its followers do push for a civil war”
  
  Funny. I’m a fundamentalist Christian. I didn’t get the memo. My God tells me that is the highest honor to die for my faith. He also tells me to obey the government in so long as I don’t sin. He tells me to pray for the authority that He has set over me (even the wicked ones). Go back a search all the Christian missionaries who have been murdered and did not ever attempt to fight back. You have no clue of what you speak of. You have some self-made stereotype of a person you’ve never met. There’s a word for that…. bigot.
  
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- justsayin456
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:43am
  *alludes* *eluding* is what you are doing to the truth when you try to marginalize rational testimony like his.
  
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- fmbmitgt
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 11:14am
  VAMAN, that’s just not true. Of course, there are extremists on all sides of every issue, but no sizable segment of any protestant denomination advocates violence or civil war or anything like that. (Unlike Islam, where millions around the world want the U.S., including you, destroyed.) O’Reilly does not equal Hannity. I would’ve walked out if that was my pastor.
  
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- PJ Smith in Texas
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 11:30am
  VAHUNTERS: Very well said – Thank you!
  
  I completely agree with VAHunter.
  
  Tell me, VAMAN, are you paid per post, by the hour or per site? I’d bet dollars to donuts you’re another “Obama’s CyberWarrior”. We know TheBlaze is on the target list. So, can you pay down your student loan doing this?
  
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- edotddot
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 1:41am
  Well as a Fundamental Baptist, I have no idea what you’re talking about.
  
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term limits for congress
Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:10am
Went to the same seminary as Rev. Al and Rev. JJ.

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vahunters
Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:10am
A California preacher who rebukes people for worshipping guns? I am not surprised by this. This preacher is supposedly “pro-gun”. Didn’t Obama make this same “pro-gun” statement?
We have entered an era where its completely acceptable to lie outright to anyone.
Lets see where this preacher stands on abortion, same sex marriage and other “casual sins” any one have any info where he stands with this?
The 501c churches will promote false doctrine to maintain tax exempt status. Don’t be fooled.
Christians don’t worship guns but we do take our liberties seriously and to commit these liberties to an immoral govt is what people need to stand up against albeit peacefully. Our rights for firearms are our very, very last resort to overthrow a tyrannical govt.
The false preachers will lead you astray with all sorts of dogma and request your capitulation to a tyrannical govt. They lull you to sleep and then you wake up with all liberties gone.
Liberty is given by God not governments.

I truly believe our founding fathers of this great nation received the wisdom to create our Bill of Rights and Constitution by God. The history revisionists will try to come out and state all the founding fathers were eveil as we are now seeing. This is typical of communists, facists and marxists. They need to rewrite and “retrain” the populace to believe the bold face lies for control.

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- Jezreel
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:30am
  I agree. All you have to do is find out if this preacher teaches “tithing” and you will know what his intentions truly are. Chrisitians worship sports like football worse. I don’t not think that they worship guns. Americans are very concerned and know what the government is up to, nothing good of course. In time, if this church he preaches at receives huge flatscreens and other assets that his congregation cannot normally supply with it’s usual “offerings”, you will realize that he has sold out to the government.
  
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- SquidVetOhio
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 10:49am
  What’s wrong with tithing? God shouldn’t ask for 10% back of what He gives us as His people to finance His ministry?
  
  I don’t agree with this guy but the doctrine of tithing is sound and Biblical.
  
  Report this comment
- PJ Smith in Texas
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 11:49am
  If liberty is God given, and we have it, what should believers do when someone tries to take away that liberty, not just from me personally, but from my children, all children and the grandchildren not yet here.
  
  Relinquish this gift without a word? Relinquish part of the gift? Respond with words but no deeds? What deeds are the right ones? Voting? letter writing? posting on web sites? responding to opinion polls? Protesting? civil disobedience? Hiding currently legal weapons and ammunition? Hiding contraban? lying to authorities?
  Begining when? when is any or all of these ok? What is the proper, the right, response? As a Christian, I should take it as punishment for fifty years of my country encouraging abortion? Another injustice?
  Does anybody have these answers?
  
  Report this comment
- Max jones
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 8:57pm
  PJSMITH…..Discernment is the method…..You’ll know when the forces of evil become apparent to you.
  UP close and personal. For some, like myself, that line has been crossed. Any capitulation from this point on, privately or publicly, is unthinkable.
  
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- Max jones
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:33pm
  The Idea of tithing was to support the “teachers” of the ‘WORD’……It is not taught, much, any where,O anymore. Any preacher who teaches false doctrine will face the harshest judgement. NOT teaching verse by verse and tenet upon tenet, Is teaching FALSE teachings.
  Only the candles of Smyrna and Philadelphia were pleasing to Christ, for they were the only churches who taught about the “sons of cain” (Kenites, in Hebrew) and their plot to usurp the mercy seat. We now have Kenites in our schools, teaching our children how to be pagan, In our churches, stealing souls, In our media propagandizing the population, and all over our Government, preparing the way for the anti-christ’s global theocracy. Praise God for this latter rain.
  
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FrankGarrett
Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:08am
behold the antichrist.

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- CenterLineStripe
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 10:25am
  Lol, Why? because he’s preaching something you don’t want to hear? That makes him the antichrist?…got news for you buddy, half the country and most of the world is probably the anitchrist to you.
  
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- Max jones
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 11:03am
  CENTRLINESTRIPE…….I don’t know if Frank feels that way, but I do…..We have reached a tipping point. and way more people are serving Satan than are serving the Lord…Look at yourself for instance.
  
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- DoseofReality
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 11:40am
  there is no such thing as Satan – are you people infants?
  
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- Max jones
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:43pm
  DOSEOFCLAP….Looks like you fell for the big lie. There is no Satan. Evil is only a perceptual reality.
  deeeluded!!!!!
  
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walnutportconservative
Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:06am
I find it funny how some posts are hindered on this forum. I talk only of spiritual postings. Odd?

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Gonzo
Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:05am
Rather than listening and watching “Hannity, and O’Reilly and Fox and Hume,” Idleman said that the congregation should consider spending more time with “Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.”

No mention of listening and watching Mathews, Schultz, MSNBC and Piers Morgan? No doubt we should spend time daily in scripture and I do. The omission of the liberal agenda news media is curious though.

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- Cavallo
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:26am
  I think he more likes Marx, Engels, and Mao over Mark, Luke, and John. “The devil can site scripture for his own purpose! An evil soul producing holy witness is like a villain with a smiling cheek.” – The Bard.
  
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lisalake
Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:04am
I trust in God, I trust my gun, and I trust myself. You, pastor, mean nothing to me.

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- FrankGarrett
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:07am
  that pastor looks more like a satan worshiper. His soul is damned to Hell for his crimes.
  
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- 00100111
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:39am
  Ask this “pastor” how he feels about abortion and gay marriage, then you’ll see just how “christian” he is. (Lower case on purpose). Obama claims to be “Pro 2nd Amendment” also.
  
  Even the devil can quote scripture if it suits his purposes.
  
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- SamIamTwo
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:53am
  Control yourselves and be careful! The devil, your enemy, goes around like a roaring lion looking for someone to eat. Refuse to give in to him, by standing strong in your faith. You know that your Christian family all over the world is having the same kinds of suffering. And after you suffer for a short time, God, who gives all grace, will make everything right. He will make you strong and support you and keep you from falling. He called you to share in his glory in Christ, a glory that will continue forever. All power is His forever and ever. Amen.
  
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joeslick
Posted on February 13, 2013 at 8:59am
There’s a big difference in worshiping guns and knowing that they will be necessary to preserve freedom and protect yourself from evil people. And he’s right, prayer is more powerful than any weapon here, but he doesn’t know what God will have us do in the end. If I know God wants me to lay down arms and go home peacefully, then I will. If He wants me to fight for the blessings He’s provided, I will. And I’ll need arms to do it.

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- Capt_Gregg
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:13am
  Prayer may lead to one’s spiritual salvation in the long run, but at any specific moment in time a gun can well be the only path to one’s physical salvation.
  
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- seek.the.truth
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:27am
  @joeslick
  You said that well.
  
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- SamIamTwo
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:42am
  Praise the Lord and pass the napalm!
  
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SquidVetOhio
Posted on February 13, 2013 at 8:59am
“non-denominational pastor…” I’m already skiddish. But I digress….

Sir, I don’t worship my guns. I worship the God that created the man that created my guns gun to help protect me from kings and governments would kill me and my family for worshiping said God. Also, God has entrusted me to be the protector of the family he’s given me. While I agree prayer is first and foremost in doing that, a gun is a nice tool in completing the task. Remember that there armed temple guards.

Methinks you want to be seen as wise and reasonable. Perhaps seeking your own glory. I don’t know but I don’t see any Christians I know bowing down to worship their guns. Maybe that’s a problem in you “non-denominational” churches.

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Uechi
Posted on February 13, 2013 at 8:59am
Pro Gun my butt. This JO is a lefty who believes in social justice. I have owned and collected weapons for years I do not worship them! I honor the Constitution and our heritage but only worship God. Positive proof that just because you are called a pastor doesn’t mean your not a dumbass.

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- Greenwood
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 8:20pm
  Worship = #2 intense love or admiration of any kind.
  
  god = #2 an image that is worshiped ; idol #3 a person or thing deified or excessively honored and admired.
  
  allegiance = #1 the duty of being loyal to ones ruler, government, or country. #2 loyalty; devotion, as to a cause.
  
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- edotddot
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 2:03am
  Settle down with the name calling…I guess he isn’t speaking to you then. He may have some in his church that have become obsessed with political talk shows and their guns. Admittedly, it’s very easy for those of us who are passionate about our country, our rights, and our guns to focus solely on these things and put God on the back burner. The funny thing with humanity is that we feel like we have more control over things than we actually do. I Think he is instructing his church that while it’s good to be prepared, they should not have anything before God.
  
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SamIamTwo
Posted on February 13, 2013 at 8:55am
Well I knew that but have you seen the crime rates lately.

I visited Israel and saw an Orthodox Jew teaching his son…I asked the tour guide. “If he is a man of God, why does he need that gun strapped to his leg?” The tour guide replied, it is God’s will that the man be able to protect his family.

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- Locked
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:05am
  “Well I knew that but have you seen the crime rates lately. ”
  
  … violent crimes at the lowest they’ve been in decades? I’m not sure if that was your point.
  
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- john vincent
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:12am
  -siam
  
  well played
  
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- jeanr
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:12am
  You would think that someone who can read God’s mind could get a better gig than tour guide.
  
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- SamIamTwo
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:15am
  Correction, crime in and hear Seattle is up…either that or they are reporting more and more on home invasions.
  
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- SamIamTwo
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:33am
  jeanr
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:12am
  
  You would think that someone who can read God’s mind could get a better gig than tour guide.
  
  ++++++
  
  You went there, eh? The tour guide was a completed Jew. He was the Captain who signed over Jericho to Arafat. He spent time in the Israeli Military…He had to take a two year class and a test to become a tour guide in Israel…a much better standard than you perhaps know about, eh?
  
  And the Jewish tour guides knew more about the bible than the preachers that traveled with us. LOL
  
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- jeanr
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 10:04am
  Don’t most Jews hate that term?
  
  Anyway, the rest of your remark is quite true. I wouldn’t know anything about it, and I certainly have neither been a Captain in the Israeli military nor took a 2 year course in supernatural telepathy and tourism. I am far too humble to ever think that I know what God is thinking.
  
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- Max jones
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:55pm
  JEANR…..God’s thinking is written in the bible….You are supposed to know. God’s nature is forever.
  There will be people who will tell you it has changed, just like the constitution of this nation…..it ain’t so, for either.
  
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willingtoupe
Posted on February 13, 2013 at 8:54am
So what would Jesus say to the Hillbillies, Rednecks and Moonshiners?

Matthew 26:52, King James Version

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- walnutportconservative
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:01am
  Matthew 26:52
  New International Version (NIV)
  
  52 “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.
  
  Beck doesn’t like to hear this one. Beck also doesn’t like to hear the term “Born Again”
  
  Beck misses the real target by about 15 inches
  
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- grunk
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:19am
  Talikng to Pilate:
  
  Jesus replied, “My kingdom is not from this world. If my kingdom were from this world, my servants would fight to prevent me being handed over to the Jewish authorities.
  
  Maybe Jesus picks his battles differently from you and me.
  
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- walnutportconservative
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:25am
  Grunk is right about Jesus picking battles different from us.
  I think in Psalms it states “My (God) ways are different form your ways, your thoughts different then mine”.
  That is God speaking to us?
  
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- SquidVetOhio
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:26am
  Please, quit quoting scriptures out of context before you hurt yourself.
  
  Liberals quoting scriptures is like a 3 year old with a loaded revolver. Nothing good is going to come from it.
  
  Jesus was talking to Peter about his inevitability of His death. It was God’s will that His Son be crucified so nothing Peter did would stop it. I suggest you read Luke 22:36-37
  
  “Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.”
  
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- SamIamTwo
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:37am
  SquidVetOhio
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:26am
  
  Please, quit quoting scriptures out of context before you hurt yourself.
  
  ___________________________________
  
  ROTFLMO with tears…;)
  
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- Cavallo
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:51am
  Psalm 144 Blessed be the Lord my strength,
  which teacheth my hands to war,
  and my fingers to fight:
  
  Of course I would damn any holy man that insists the path to God exists not in freedom but on the road to slavery in the chains of a tyrannical State. It is not weapons we worship, but the freedom those weapons maintain for us.
  
  “For freedom Christ has set us free. Stand firm, therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.” Paul’s Letter to the Galatians
  
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- walnutportconservative
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 10:39am
  Squidvet lost me when he started argueing like a lefty.
  
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- DLV
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 1:10am
  Walnut- Squid is right though. Jesus picked his battles differently. I know it’s hard to believe since Jesus rarely showed this side of himself but he is the God of wrath and war too. He will make war against evil eventually. This Pastor is right to an extent but God does want us protecting ourselves. I think he just wants us to focus more attention on God rather than the guns. I can agree to that.
  
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BlackCrow
Posted on February 13, 2013 at 8:54am
It was clergy like this guy that drove me away from church.

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- SquidVetOhio
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:29am
  I suggest you find a better church. Remember, Jesus loved the church and died for it.
  
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- Wisdom7
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:47am
  The “church” isn’t a single pastor and brick and mortar building.
  
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- BlackCrow
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:48am
  Yet to have found one that condemns immorality that at the same time does not take Genius literally or tell me my occasional adult beverage is going to send me to hell. Why is it necessary to discount science in order to teach morality?
  
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- Max jones
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 10:07pm
  SQUID……the church has left her first estate and is apostate…….Get out while you can. Remember the Bride of Christ is virgin. Don’t be deceived.
  
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- Dr Vel
  Posted on February 18, 2013 at 4:35am
  SquidVetOhio “I suggest you find a better church. Remember, Jesus loved the church and died for it.”
  
  Yet again the M.O. of satan, twisting the Word to make your own point. Jesus died for all humanity, not the church. There are many churches, few with truth. Except for the Elect the whole world is deceived. “Behold I have set aside 7,000 who will not bend a knee to baal”, “they shall be accounted for a generation” said the Lord to the prophet. If the world is 7 billion people, the Elect are a tiny fraction, who hold the truth. If you are able to do third grade math statistics alone should say it all, i.e., nearly every single church on earth teaches lies and the traditions of men making void the Word of God. Jesus did not die for the church, nearly all a Bethevin. He died for the forgiveness of sins for all His children. The true church is a Bethel, not a Bethevin.
  
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denkat56
Posted on February 13, 2013 at 8:54am
Yo pastor, I trust god, I just don’t trust the guy with the guns pointed at me or my family.

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- RIDEMODELS
  Posted on February 15, 2013 at 12:16am
  I trust God…..I just dont trust a liberal who voted to End Life this past election.
  
  Yes there is a lot of hurt in this country as I watch fellow brothers who lost life and limb to fight for the constitution, which might I add no other country has or will have……We are the last with the constitution and it permits us free speech and the The Bill of Rights…..It is not just some piece of paper to many of us and to many it is a guide to Freedom.
  
  So now instead of preaching to us like CNN about our rights….How about we pray that our commander and thief figures out how to budget this country into prosperity and not slam us into poverty. I never said that water boarding was torture. I have never owned a strip club or night club. I have never sold drugs for profit. And my dad always told me ” You are the company you keep.”…Time for a lot of people in this country to grow up and understand we are in tough times, but I will believe that when I see strip clubs etc. closing down.
  
  I will be at church…Praying that 223 ammo will be back on the shelves soon.
  
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walnutportconservative
Posted on February 13, 2013 at 8:53am
Deuteronomy 4:24
For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.
I struggle with fully relying solely on God, but if he is a jealous God, I figure he is annoyed when I cling to the possesion of the gun, rather than cling FIRST to Him. So… I pray… God, help me hit the target.

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- Pontiaku
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 6:43pm
  “God, help me hit the target.”
  Maybe you should invest in laser sights or get some more practice and stop relying on sky vapor.
  
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- DYNA
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 9:34pm
  @Pontiaku
  
  When your flesh is stradling between life and death, and if you have time to think about it,
  you will not be so insolent towards His Holy Spirit.
  
  Report this comment
- Max jones
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 10:10pm
  WALNUTZ……You’re not serious are you? What kind of faith are you pretending to, anyway?
  
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- Max jones
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 10:11pm
  WALNUTZ…Sorry… last comment was not meant for you…..You make sense.
  
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- Pontiaku
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 10:11am
  DYNA, unless I’m suffering from dementia, your imaginary friend would be the least of my concerns.
  
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Philo Beddoe
Posted on February 13, 2013 at 8:50am
I trust in God to give the the foresight to buy the correct gun so I can blow the heck out of some person who is driven by evil that wants to harm my family or myself.

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- Pontiaku
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 6:42pm
  Not sure what you’re buying but my guns are far more reliable and consistent than some sky daddy invented by tribal leaders in a desert.
  
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- Schteveo
  Posted on February 13, 2013 at 7:50pm
  And thankfully Pont, we live in a country where we ALL get to chose who we worship or not to worship at all.
  
  But what I never understand is why people who don’t believe have to use terms like ‘sky daddy’. As to ‘invented by tribal leaders’, again, we all get to choose. Given that, why all the hate and discontent? And don’t give me a bunch of hooey about pedophile Priests or Jim Jones, David Koresh killed their followers.
  
  Usually, someone pushing something away like that, has an inner agenda. So, wazzup/
  
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