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Shock: Olympian ‘Blade Runner’ Superstar Charged With Murdering His Girlfriend

Feb. 14, 2013 7:24am Billy Hallowell

PRETORIA, South Africa (AP) — Paralympic superstar Oscar Pistorius was charged Thursday with the murder of his girlfriend who was shot inside his home in South Africa, a stunning development in the life of a national hero known as the Blade Runner for his high-tech artificial legs.

Reeva Steenkamp, a model who spoke out on Twitter against rape and abuse of women, was shot four times in the predawn hours in the home, in a gated community in the capital, Pretoria, police said.

Hours later after undergoing police questioning, Pistorius left a police station accompanied by officers. He looked down as photographers snapped pictures, the hood on his gray workout jacket pulled up, covering most of his face.

Police said a 26-year-old male would appear in court later on Thursday on the charge of murder and that there had “previously been incidents at the home of Mr. Oscar Pistorius.” Police in South Africa do not name suspects in crimes until they have appeared in court but police spokesperson Brigadier Denise Beukes said that Pistorius was at his home at the time of the death of Steenkamp and “there is no other suspect involved.”

Oscar Pistorius Charged With Murdering His Girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp

In this Nov. 4, 2012 photo, South African Olympic athlete Oscar Pistorius and his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp, at an awards ceremony, in Johannesburg, South Africa. Olympic athlete Oscar Pistorius was taken into custody and was expected to appear in court Thursday, Feb. 14, 2013, after a 30-year-old woman who was believed to be his girlfriend was shot dead at his home in South Africa’s capital, Pretoria. Credit: AP

“Yes there are witnesses and there have also been interviews this morning,” Beukes told reporters outside the gated complex where Pistorius lived. “We are talking about neighbors and people that heard things that happened earlier in the evening and when the shooting took place.”

Police said that earlier reports that Steenkamp may have been mistaken for a burglar by Pistorius did not come from the police. Several local media outlets had initially reported that the shooting may have been accidental.

“It would be very premature and very irresponsible of me to say what actually has happened,” Beukes said. “There have been allegations. We are not sure.”

Beukes also said there had been previous incidents and “allegations of a domestic nature” at the home of the Olympic star and double-amputee runner, who is one of South Africa’s and the world’s most famous sportsmen and made history at the London Games last year by being the first double-amputee runner to compete at the Olympics.

“I’m not going to elaborate on it but there have been incidents (at Pistorius’ home),” Beukes said.

Capacity Relations, a talent management firm, earlier named model Steenkamp as the victim of the shooting. Police spokeswoman Lt. Col. Katlego Mogale told The Associated Press that officers received a call around 3 a.m. after the shooting.

Olympic athlete Oscar Pistorius leaves the Boschkop police station, east of Pretoria, South Africa, Thursday, Feb. 14, 2013 en route to appear in court charged with murder. Olympic athlete Oscar Pistorius was taken into custody and was expected to appear in court Thursday, after a 30-year-old woman who was believed to be his girlfriend was shot dead at his home in South Africa’s capital, Pretoria. Credit: AP

A 9 mm pistol was recovered and a murder case opened against Pistorius, who was to appear in court later Thursday. Journalists crowded onto wooden benches in the rear of the word-paneled courtroom which is inside a prison in Pretoria. By midday the room was hot in the South African summer. Authorities then said the proceedings would be moved to a different courtroom.

Mogale said when police arrived they found paramedics trying to revive a 30-year-old woman, who had been shot four times. Mogale, who was speaking to the AP from the scene, said the woman died at the house.

Police have still not released the name of the woman, but the publicist for Steenkamp confirmed in a statement that the model was dead.

“We can confirm that Reeva Steenkamp has passed away,” Steenkamp’s publicist Sarit Tomlinson said. “We are in communication with people on the scene, please wait for official statements, as there is too much speculation at this moment in time. We will provide further information as soon as we are able to provide accurate information as to what transpired.

“Our thoughts and prayers go to the Steenkamp family, who have asked to have their privacy respected during this difficult time, everyone is simply devastated. She was the kindest, sweetest human being; an angel on earth and will be sorely missed.

Oscar Pistorius of South Africa runs in the men’s 400m T44 final during the 2008 Beijing Paralympic Games at the National Stadium in Beijing on September 16, 2008. Oscar Pistorius won with a new world record of 47.49. Credit: AFP/Getty Images

Tomlinson said Steenkamp, known simply as Reeva, was one of FHM’s (formerly For Him Magazine) 100 Sexiest Women in the World for two years running, appeared in countless international and national advertisements and was one of the celebrity contestants on Tropika Island of Treasure, filmed in Jamaica.

On Twitter, she tweeted messages urging women to stand up against rape alongside her excitement about Valentine’s Day. “What do you have up your sleeve for your love tomorrow?” she tweeted. “It should be a day of love for everyone.”

Mogale and Beukes said the victim’s family had not yet identified the body.

Pistorius made history in London last year when he became the first double-amputee track athlete to compete in the Olympic Games, propelling him to the status of an athletics superstar.

Having had both his legs amputated below the knee before his first birthday because of a congenital condition, he campaigned for years to be allowed to compete against able-bodied athletes. Having initially been banned because of his carbon fiber blades – which critics said gave him an unfair advantage – he was cleared by sport’s highest court in 2008 and allowed to run at the top events.

He competed in the 400 meters and on South Africa’s 4×400 relay team at the London Games, making history after having his selection confirmed on South Africa’s team at the very last minute. He also retained his Paralympic title in the 400 meters in London.

This file picture taken on August 5, 2012 in London shows South Africa’s Paralympic gold medallist Oscar Pistorius who was arrested early on February 14, 2013 for allegedly shooting dead his girlfriend after mistaking her for an intruder, media reports said. Credit: AFP/Getty Images

South Africa’s Sports Confederation and Olympic committee released a statement on Thursday saying they had been “inundated” with requests for comment but were not in a position to give out any details of the shooting.

“SASCOC, like the rest of the public, knows no more than what is in the public domain, which is there has been an alleged fatal shooting on the basis of a mistaken identity and an apparent assumption of a burglary,” the South African Olympic committee said. “The organization is in no position to comment on the incident other than to say our deepest sympathy and condolences have been expressed to the families of all concerned.”

The International Paralympic Committee also said it wouldn’t comment in detail apart from offering its condolences to the victim’s family.

“This is a police matter, with a formal investigation currently underway,” the IPC said. “Therefore it would be inappropriate for the IPC to comment on this incident until the official police process has concluded. The IPC would like to offer its deepest sympathy and condolences to all families involved in this case.”

South Africa has some of the world’s highest murder rates, with nearly 50 people killed each day in the nation of 50 million. It also has high rates of rape, other assaults, robbery and carjackings.

U.N. statistics show South Africa has the second highest rate of shooting deaths in the world, second only to Colombia.

–

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Comments (92)

NAT1138
Posted on February 14, 2013 at 1:30pm
Well you know what they say, “to stop a smoking hot bikini model with chocolates, it takes a good guy with a gun.”

In all seriousness though, what ever his excuse is, I don’t think he has a leg to stand on…

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- pavepaws
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 2:23pm
  What a waste. I hope he doesn’t run out on this.
  
  Report this comment
- Barnesrickw
  Posted on February 16, 2013 at 5:00pm
  nice job on the hate, poor job looking at the white guy running in the pictures. Wow!
  
  Report this comment
Skee
Posted on February 14, 2013 at 1:10pm
A accidental flying round house kick with blades strapped to his feet, would have made a interesting story. Now he’ll make a great fry cook in prison, with his built in spatulas.

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GoodStuff
Posted on February 14, 2013 at 12:55pm
Never trusted this guy. Something “off” about him during Olympic interviews.

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Ghandi was a Republican
Posted on February 14, 2013 at 12:50pm
Her makeup and hairdresser are the ones who should have been shot..

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marybethelizabeth
Posted on February 14, 2013 at 12:11pm
except that theblaze isn’t a news site.

Glenn Beck calls himself an opinion maker.

I’ve written time and again how Glenn Beck says one thing one minute and another thing the next.
He tells you he’s a student of persuasive techniques. Do you listen to him? There’s a term for this but it can’t be written here.

This isn’t about left and right , especially when those are created divisions meant as a distraction.

So that’s not my argument at all because the institutions you identify don’t exist.

My argument is you are being played. and used for and by people that don’t have your best interest in mind.

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- bonesiii
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 12:39pm
  [Mary's above comment was apparently meant to reply to me below and was posted there too, so here's my reply for those reading along:]
  Persuasion is important, when others have incorrect views, you know why, and you see that those incorrect views are causing harm. Besides, you’re trying to persuade too. Everybody does. That’s the most basic function of communication.
  
  And your definition of “one thing the next” is very flawed if this story counts!
  
  “My argument is you are being played. and used for and by people that don’t have your best interest in mind.”
  Played how and to what end?
  
  In this subject, the objective facts support our position. Guns are tools, and they can be used for good or ill; the key is to have good (well trained) people owning them, so that if someone bad tries to use them (or anything else) to cause intentional harm they can be stopped. What it boils down to is technology. A gun is more advanced technology for a purpose — projecting physical force over a distance, to solve a problem from the user’s POV. How you apply that force depends on your morals, etc.
  
  When in the situation of a criminal seeking to harm you, a gun is one of the best technological solutions to that problem.
  
  That’s the view of the psychologically stable and objective thinkers.
  
  Others have an irrational, mind-paralyzing phobia of guns. They need a psychologist, not a gun law.
  
  Report this comment
- bonesiii
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 12:46pm
  And Mary, my argument (as I’ve pointed out many times on here before) is that liberal manipulators are playing -you-, and for -their- selfish interests. That argument can go both ways.
  
  Are GB’s motives pure? I’m not telepathic, but what I am is a logician and an objective truthseeker, and what matters to me is that some of what he says — at least the majority of his message, is logically sound. That is, it follows from proper argument structure, avoiding fallacies like appeal to popularity, and rests on true premises. Liberalism is based on lies, often on fallacies, and is self-contradictory and self-defeating (as your attempt to persuade us that persuasion is bad illustrates, lol).
  
  That’s why I’m a conservative. There could be dishonest, manipulative conservatives who are just on the bandwagon, although in the face of this current “refining fire” of trials I would say those ones already jumped ship — those were the ones that were saying “we hope Obama succeeds” and the like in 2008. However, I’m also very good at “reading people” and Beck reads as honest to me. (Unlike you, sadly…)
  
  I do think he’s wrong on a few things, but overall right.
  
  Finally, the Blaze IS a news site. With a conservative perspective, which you disagree with. That’s one thing, but if you feel you have to grasp at such straws as “not a news site” then it just shows you know you don’t have a sound argument so you try to cheat.
  
  Report this comment
- Ghandi was a Republican
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 12:48pm
  Uh- What? You have some weird holier than thou anal retentive need to express blatherings. I want to start a pool to guess your age, gender and profile. I have dibs on 14 year old girl with daddy issues.
  
  Report this comment
- GoodStuff
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 12:50pm
  Seek help Mary…or at least get a job.
  
  Report this comment
- Skee
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 12:59pm
  So what benevolant gurus do you suggest?
  
  Report this comment
- bonesiii
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 1:12pm
  “This isn’t about left and right , especially when those are created divisions meant as a distraction.
  
  So that’s not my argument at all because the institutions you identify don’t exist.
  
  My argument is you are being played. and used for and by people that don’t have your best interest in mind.”
  Is it intentional that this is virtually an exact paraphrase of the speech Voldemort gives in the movie version of the first book? :P “There is no good or evil, only power, and those too weak to seek it.”
  
  Anyways, I’m also curious what you mean by “the institutions you identify don’t exist”? And what do you mean about right and left? You don’t think there are people who accept liberalism and others who identify more with conservatism? And distract from what? Speak clearly.
  
  Report this comment
- marybethelizabeth
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 4:21pm
  We could start with something trivial, something I heard Mr, Beck say 50 times? Something I heard Rush Limbaugh say last November. That Rules for Radicals was dedicated to Satan.
  
  It’s not true.
  
  they both did it to win favor with a certain group of people.
  
  Report this comment
- bonesiii
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 5:20pm
  It appears to be true, Mary. A quick google search (not that hard to do :P) turned up thousands of results confirming it. Apparently it may have been taken out of later versions; this may be the cause of your confusion. Here’s one link confirming it:
  
  http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100808074147AAWUfU1
  
  Report this comment
- marybethelizabeth
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 6:05pm
  If it is true then why did Glenn Beck take a call from a listener on air (which he almost never does) that pointed out that it wasn’t true, and Glenn Beck agreed that he was wrong, and now he no longer says it?
  
  But people like you who don’t listen to his show develop a mythology about Glenn Beck and come up with half cocked apologetics.
  
  It’s not true, even though he said it so many times most of his listeners believe it to be so.
  
  The same with his fascism is a left wing ideology rant, that all his listeners believe, that he has also disavowed. (Glenn Beck was trying to form that idiotic stateist argument, not knowing it already existed. The truth is, birds of a feather, both he and the President are Fascists).
  
  I’d say ask Glenn Beck but he’ll probably come up with some dubious rationalization.
  
  But like I said, this is trivial.
  
  These kind of “prove it” questions seem to me like a form of market research to discover a message’s penetration. Nothing I say will convince a true believer. It only re-enforces their mistaken beliefs. it makes them hold that much tighter.
  
  Report this comment
- bonesiii
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 6:18pm
  “If it is true then why did Glenn Beck take a call from a listener on air (which he almost never does) that pointed out that it wasn’t true, and Glenn Beck agreed that he was wrong, and now he no longer says it?”
  And this is supposed to help your case?
  
  I don’t always have time to listen; I must have missed that one. Is that a crime, lol? You seem to think so. I’m not enslaved to the show, but neither should that mean the show shouldn’t be on the air or whatever you are trying to argue for (again you are being very vague — it looks to me like you’re probably just trying to “be a radical”?).
  
  What was the reasoning the caller gave that Glenn accepted? Perhaps the nitpick I found in one of the google results that it wasn’t technically the “dedication”? Is it a crime for him to acknowledge that he was misled by a misconception? It seems you do not understand the concept of innocent mistakes and the like. Everything seems to be cast in melodramatic sensationalism. Ugh, yanno?
  
  Report this comment
- bonesiii
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 6:23pm
  “develop a mythology about Glenn Beck”
  What exactly is the mythology, then? It seems like you’re the one doing that. That seems to bear true of most of your accusations — a common trait I have often noticed of the left, often enough I’ve given it a name. Inverse Accusation Syndrome. I don’t mythologize anyone. I just listen to the guy, yeesh.
  
  And yeah, if you’re going to use illogic to try to argue, to someone who’s trained in logic, that isn’t likely to make me buy your snake oil, my dear. Nor should it. Especially since most of the arguments you use could be turned on just about anyone who dares to speak their mind, coming down on any side including yours.
  
  Report this comment
- marybethelizabeth
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 6:41pm
  Lump me into a group to which I don’t belong if you must. What was all that about psychological projection and false accusations and glass houses? Doesn’t hit home for you?
  
  The mythology is that Glenn Beck is a good person.
  
  Report this comment
- bonesiii
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 7:13pm
  “The mythology is that Glenn Beck is a good person.”
  Well, are you trying to get into theology here? Technically, nobody is a good person in and of themselves. That’s why we all need forgiveness. :) Semantics. But what makes him bad? The only evidence you put up so far ended in him admitting he was wrong about something (at least assuming your own report is accurate, which there’s plenty of reason to doubt). That’s a classic sign of a good person… He makes mistakes, though. He’s not a -perfect- person. He need not be for us to listen to him. It’s enough that he makes important points that we agree with, and gives information that is hard to find elsewhere which is also often important.
  
  Ultimately it seems you’re trying to make mountains out of molehills that themselves might not even exist, and it does not seem clear why. What goal do you have here? Should people stop listening? Should we stop getting news from the Blaze that is often censored at the liberal news sites? Or what?
  
  Report this comment
Bamagal0007
Posted on February 14, 2013 at 10:42am
Agreed RJ…it is truly a sad situation.

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Bamagal0007
Posted on February 14, 2013 at 10:20am
This government knows the massive backlash they would fac eif they came for our guns, most care more about being re-elected.

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PatMcGroyn
Posted on February 14, 2013 at 10:19am
I like the movie ending of “Blade Runner” better.

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Bamagal0007
Posted on February 14, 2013 at 10:07am
soy…the feds did not lead the search on dorner…it was mainly local LE. The idiot fired on ANYONE in uniform…even park rangers…good grief. You would have preferred more LL officers and their families (who werw actually trageted) to die for this monsters cause? Give me a break man!

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- Bamagal0007
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 10:18am
  Geez…sorry…LE officers were targeted
  
  Report this comment
The_Almighty_Creestof
Posted on February 14, 2013 at 10:05am
Well…he’s stepped in it now.

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RinkyDink34
Posted on February 14, 2013 at 9:53am
Ooops
?

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- 226crimsontrace
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 10:01am
  A murderer? maybe we should burn his cabin down, huh Glenn?
  
  Report this comment
UNALIEN
Posted on February 14, 2013 at 9:49am
blades don’t run people, people run people

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- Verceofreason
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 10:39am
  Blade. One would think he would have stabbed her.
  
  I suspect her Tweets were based on her relationship with him.
  
  Report this comment
bolec slodkie
Posted on February 14, 2013 at 9:45am
Lets see. Universal gun registration, competency test, police inspection, 6% of the people legally own guns…This is a gun banner’s wet dream. Why is South Africa’s (SA’s) gun HOMICIDE rate [2009 last year available/ 100k] 17 vs 3.75 for the US. SAs overall homicide rater is 33.8 vs 5.48. SA’s Homicide rate is still greater than the US’s overall gun death rate (including suicide and accidents) of 10.22. What does this prove about gun ban laws?
http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/south-africa
http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states

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- TheCalmOne
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 11:51am
  It doesn’t necessarily prove anything about gun ban laws, but the stats do reflect the fact that SA is an extremely violent society.
  
  Report this comment
Bamagal0007
Posted on February 14, 2013 at 9:33am
This looks to be a domastic dispute…something not even close to what dorner did. Dorner swore he would not be taken aliive and was a menace to society no matter what you try and label it.
He got his wish…and it was HIS FAULT his a s s ended up roasting.
BTW…I seriously doubt he even felt the heat…he was probably already dead by his own hand. Save your sympathy for someone who deserves it.

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- soybomb315_II
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 9:40am
  there is no sympathy – only concern for the slippery slope that we see happen every day.
  
  federal government has declared war on americans. we have no rights. federal government is giving local police paramilitary gear and drones. government is about to outlaw guns…….What do you think is going to happen next? Cmon people, use your brains
  
  Report this comment
- RJJinGadsden
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 9:53am
  BAMAGAL0007, Bingo! That was my first impression when I saw this story on the news much earlier. I think that we will see more about this in the next few days.
  
  Report this comment
MaggieRose
Posted on February 14, 2013 at 9:16am
very sad… he was one of my heroes… when I would whine and moan about doing my little running gig in the morning, I would think of him being born without legs and making it to the Olympics, and it would help me get my lazy butt out the door. sheesh.

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thegodfather
Posted on February 14, 2013 at 8:58am
Oh yea…”mistaken for a burglar” . I’m sure the cops will buy that. You’re good to go Oscar.

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Chromo200
Posted on February 14, 2013 at 7:45am
“U.N. statistics show South Africa has the second highest rate of shooting deaths in the world, second only to Colombia.”

I thought the US was the premier murder country of the world.

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- DougHuffman
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 8:15am
  Only to the lamestream media. MOLON LABE Lord of Flies Lies
  
  Report this comment
- sndrman
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 8:40am
  why let facts get in the way of bad mouthing America huh!!!!!
  
  Report this comment
marybethelizabeth
Posted on February 14, 2013 at 7:44am
Yesterday theblaze prints a pro union story.

Today here’s an anti gun story.

Glenn Beck is now supporting Rand Paul in calling for a US- Soviet- Chinese alliance.

Pigs are flying somewhere

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- bonesiii
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 8:19am
  A story that reports a shooting death is not an “anti-gun” story. Is a story that reports a car death anti-car? What about a falling tree; anti-tree? Drowning anti-water?
  
  Report this comment
- marybethelizabeth
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 8:39am
  When a tree falls on a car maybe it’s time to think about not planting trees so close to roadways so they don’t fall on cars.
  When someone dies in a car crash maybe it’s time to think about not driving so fast or driving while drunk.
  And on and on.
  
  The same with senseless gun violence.
  
  Report this comment
- The-Monk
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 8:45am
  Howdy BarryMethElizardbreath,
  
  I just knew you would show up and post something so idiotic that it would baffle all of us.
  
  Report this comment
- marybethelizabeth
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 9:02am
  The_Monk.
  So are you on board?
  Are you going to go along with the new direction of theblaze?
  What is your argument going to be; that you have always held these principles but have been quiet about them and said the opposite as a test?
  
  What has made America great, what de Tocqueville wrote, was that Americans can reinvent themselves. If someone gets into trouble somewhere, they could always pick up and move to another city where no one knew them and start again.
  
  If Glenn Beck wants to attract a bigger audience, he just changes his message, and becomes something else, different from what he was before. Catholicism not working; become a Mormon, etc. etc.etc.
  
  Report this comment
- soybomb315_II
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 9:15am
  Hey Mary
  
  I am glad glenn beck is taking up the same foreign policy positions as the so-called “isolationist” Ron Paul. I do find it odd that he waited till after the election to say it – but oh well.
  
  Mary, what do you think about getting out of Iraq/Afganistan and closing many of the unecessary bases around the world? Is your crowd going to pick that mantle up again?
  
  Report this comment
- circleDwagons
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 9:22am
  Marymary. How do we know it was a senseless “gun” violence? Whould you rather she have been brutally beaten?
  
  Report this comment
- Al J Zira
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 9:22am
  MaryE: Where were you yesterday when the Blaze ran the story of the guy who was murdered by thugs breaking into his house and shooting him while trying to protect his 11 year old daughter? Shot by two vermin that just burst through his front door, took his wife at gun point and tried to enter the 11 year old’s bedroom. Do you think if the owner had a shotgun, AR-15 with 30 rounds or even a Kimber 45 he might be alive today?
  
  I love how the left comes here to pick and choose their topics of debate.
  
  Report this comment
- marybethelizabeth
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 9:40am
  Circled wagons. The lady deserved to die?
  
  Report this comment
- marybethelizabeth
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 9:47am
  Al J zira I was right here.
  
  There are about 35 to 40 people gunned down in this country every day.
  
  Lots of senseless violence: 35 to 40 tragedies. Theblaze could print lots of gun stories. but it picks and chooses. The only stories on theblaze are those that are pro gun….. until now.
  
  So Glenn Beck goes out of his way to print a story about something that happened half way around the world?
  
  I feel a change in the weather. Are you Keys ready?
  
  Report this comment
- UNALIEN
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 9:51am
  Mary
  
  it is too early in the morning to get your Marxist on
  
  Report this comment
- marybethelizabeth
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 9:57am
  Soybomb315_II it would have been a much better strategy to have an attack on multiple fronts, not only against Wall Street but against the war.
  
  President Obama adopted the Clinton policy reserving the right to attack anyone anywhere. The left has always acted shamefully.
  
  The whole policing the world business can be turned into a profit center where we sell other countries the ships and tanks, instead of the budget drain it is now.
  
  Report this comment
- UNALIEN
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 10:18am
  MARYBETHELIZABETH
  
  Statism is Fascism, the Leftist ideologues are promoting their own enslavement, the elites always benefit from Statism
  
  Report this comment
- marybethelizabeth
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 10:57am
  Babysteps unalien.
  Marxism?
  For most people here it is still an either/or, black or white. right or wrong question.
  
  A couple of thoughts:
  What a vibrant antiwar movement would have done is provoked a more violent response than was given the wall street protesters, who were essentially rolled up in a week. A more violent response may have exposed the opposition forces, those in control, to a greater extent and certainly exposed the vileness of President Obama to more of his supporters.
  
  There was a theblaze story recently resurrected from 5 plus years ago about the military’s willingness to fire on Americans. Thanks to Glenn Beck and his ilk, most of the people that post here would do so – fire on the poor who are said to be stealing from them.
  
  Now, though, Mr. Beck has thrown in the towel. Act locally and ignore the bigger picture, he says, the game is lost and accept that the transnationals are joining together . It seems that the tanks are about to roll.
  
  And the libertarians run around saying “we can still fix the system”
  
  Report this comment
- bonesiii
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 11:26am
  Mary, here’s what your argument boils down to — you believe that if a news organization has an agenda, and a particular story could be easily emotionally twisted by the unintelligent against that agenda, they should stifle, censor, or not report it.
  
  This isn’t surprising for a liberal — that’s exactly what your lib news agencies do!
  
  You can’t seem to fathom unbiased reporting. The fact is this guy killed someone, yes, with a gun, and it’s newsworthy. Period.
  
  Report this comment
- bonesiii
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 11:34am
  “Theblaze could print lots of gun stories. but it picks and chooses. The only stories on theblaze are those that are pro gun….. until now.”
  Then how exactly ARE you defining an anti-gun story or a pro-gun story? Nothing in the article said that guns are bad or good (or, as we believe, tools that can be used either way). It seemed your only criteria for an “anti-gun” story was one that simply reported when a gun was used for harm.
  
  Yet, the Blaze has reported countless such stories. How about Sandy Hook? Was that an “anti-gun” report too? And would you in your news organization actually not report it at all, if you were “pro-gun”?
  
  Besides, making it about guns themselves is missing the point. A few people might be literally against the existence of guns, but most people think it’s all about what you allow and don’t allow related to them, and the argument goes on in that realm. We’re all against bad things happening with guns (well, okay, there are nuts like the supporters of that fired cop serial killer, but you know what I mean). We disagree over how to make such bad things less likely (and our side has the facts right).
  
  Sandy Hook for example becomes clearly “anti-gun-control” if you look at it that way, and pro teachers with guns. This one seems too unclear to figure out. Sounds at first glance like it was dark and mistaken identity, so against shooting without seeing clearly. *shrugs* So, pro better training?
  
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- marybethelizabeth
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 12:05pm
  except that theblaze isn’t a news site.
  
  Glenn Beck calls himself an opinion maker.
  
  I’ve written time and again how Glenn Beck says one thing one minute and another thing the next.
  He tells you he’s a student of persuasive techniques. Do you listen to him? There’s a term for this: mindf******.
  
  This isn’t about left and right , especially when those are created divisions meant as a distraction.
  
  So that’s not my argument at all because the institutions you identify don’t exist.
  
  My argument is you are being played. and used for and by people that don’t have your best interest in mind.
  
  Report this comment
- bonesiii
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 12:36pm
  “I’ve written time and again how Glenn Beck says one thing one minute and another thing the next.
  He tells you he’s a student of persuasive techniques. Do you listen to him?”
  Persuasion is important, when others have incorrect views, you know why, and you see that those incorrect views are causing harm. Besides, you’re trying to persuade too. Everybody does. That’s the most basic function of communication.
  
  And your definition of “one thing the next” is very flawed if this story counts!
  
  “My argument is you are being played. and used for and by people that don’t have your best interest in mind.”
  Played how and to what end?
  
  In this subject, the objective facts support our position. Guns are tools, and they can be used for good or ill; the key is to have good (well trained) people owning them, so that if someone bad tries to use them (or anything else) to cause intentional harm they can be stopped. What it boils down to is technology. A gun is more advanced technology for a purpose — projecting physical force over a distance, to solve a problem from the user’s POV. How you apply that force depends on your morals, etc.
  
  When in the situation of a criminal seeking to harm you, a gun is one of the best technological solutions to that problem.
  
  That’s the view of the psychologically stable and objective thinkers.
  
  Others have an irrational, mind-paralyzing phobia of guns. They need a psychologist, not a gun law.
  
  Report this comment
- UNALIEN
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 1:11pm
  MARYBETHELIZABETH and the other trolls are employing Marxist Critical Theory, whether they realize it it not,,, it is simple, criticize from a confirmation bias to defend their shared ideology. It subverts rational thinking by elevating the trivial or the inconsequential and ignoring the substantive information. It is a perversion of context and the left (Marxists) perfected it, it is how brainwashing works. The media is dominated by Marxist critical theory, a lens on truth that recontextualizes information to fit the Collectivist ideology. They shape the truth ideologically for consumption.
  
  IMO, Different views are more important to critical thinking than confirmatory ones but it is very very rare that the left will try to defend their ideology because it can’t be defended with reason. It is a utopian fantasy and can only be defended with deceit, lies and manipulation of information aka Marxist Critical Theory.
  
  Report this comment
- marybethelizabeth
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 1:13pm
  I’ve never written that I was against guns BonesIIi
  
  That’s how you are being played. You are being programmed to react emotionally.
  
  What I wrote was that the NRA was intentionally driving up gun prices and that was hurting gun owners and those wanting to buy new guns.
  
  Report this comment
- marybethelizabeth
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 1:34pm
  unalien you are right sort of.
  How come if a technique was developed to that was perfect, it doesn’t affect you?
  If such a technique does exist do you have to get a license to use it of can someone like Glenn Beck use it too?
  but the blaze is the height of triviality. 50% or more cute cat videos
  
  I’m the one expressing the differing viewpoint.
  You are conforming.
  
  Report this comment
- UNALIEN
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 2:16pm
  MARYBETHELIZABETH
  
  It is not sort of true, it is true, ALL media, ALL communication has a bias. A critical thinker can evaluate the bias from all sources, establish the context of the information internally and draw a conclusion. You and your cohorts seem to think that because information is presented in a story that it is wholly consumed as truth without contextual discretion, WHY is that, because collectivists process information that way, absent of critical thought. I think it is GOOD to be critical of BECK and all media, but Marxist Critical Theory subverts individual critical thinking by perverting context to fit an ideology. It is a confirmation bias void of intellectual honesty. PROOF, every comment you make bashes or smears BECK or TheBlaze for something, always trivial while ignoring the substance. The coalition of Leftist ideologies are not based on reason and logic but on adherence to a top down Collective dogma, true Conservatism is based on individual reason and logic, that doesn’t mean that it is necessarily the truth, but the greater number of critically thinking individuals gets you much closer to the truth and realty then the same number of Collectivist adhering to top down ideology.
  
  The conscience of the collective vs the collection of the conscious. It is that simple.
  
  Report this comment
- marybethelizabeth
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 2:31pm
  The gun stoiry, say I’m wrong about that
  
  So how do you explain the 5 plus years of Glenn Beck saying you should oppose President Obama because he is a communist and wants to destroy America by aligning with the Soviet Union only to turn around yesterday and agree with Ron Paul, saying the President would never do that, and, we should align our foreign policy with Moscow and Bejing?
  
  Explain how Communists were bad
  and
  Now they are good.
  
  Report this comment
- marybethelizabeth
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 2:36pm
  UInalien it is not trivial that I criticize Glenn Beck. He is a bad person. I’ve proved as much time and again in a reasonable fashion. It’s the reaction that my criticism gets that is unreasonable and it reflects back on me, causing your misperception.
  
  What you wrote isn’t true
  
  Report this comment
- UNALIEN
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 3:14pm
  MARYBETHELIZABETH
  
  You should be critical of what Beck says. You miss the point, By focusing on BECK you ignore the substance and elevate the trivial.
  
  Instead of criticizing BECKS description of Obama as a Communists. Critically evaluate IF Obama shares that ideology, IMO, critical thinking is a process that gets you closer to the truth, you can go down the wrong path but as more information is acquired you go back and continue..
  
  Is Obama a Marxist, specifically a Western Marxist a Collectivist who fundamentally believes that the State should control the individual as the State has superior knowledge. This is the fundamental error of socialism vs the individual. A small elite group simply cannot posses more information than is created by the voluntary interactions of all participants. Statism is elitism, the economic, psychological and physical control of the individual for the benefit of those that have unequal influence with the State. Of course Statism can come from the right or the Left, but it always comes from elites gaining control of the individual. There is nothing wrong with criticizing the right, but doing it while ignoring the destruction of the individual from the left is the epitome of intellectual dishonesty.
  
  So, is Obama a Marxist…
  
  Report this comment
- bonesiii
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 3:15pm
  “I’ve never written that I was against guns BonesIIi
  
  That’s how you are being played. You are being programmed to react emotionally.”
  Fair enough that that isn’t what you meant, but you appeared to imply that, especially by stating that an article merely reporting something that happened is inherently “anti-gun”. Can’t you see how your own wording created that impression?
  
  Also, I’m a logician, and very much against the philosophy of emotionalism. I form my conclusions purely through calm reason, not emotions, and have written extensively about that. (Of course, neither am I lacking in emotion, but I do not allow it to taint my conclusion-forming process.) Anyways, simply consider what I said to be advise to be more careful with your word choice. :)
  
  “Explain how Communists were bad
  and
  Now they are good.”
  Real life is not so simple as “this guy good, that guy bad.” This is the second time here you haven’t seemed able to grasp that something isn’t either one thing or another (either/or fallacy). I like to give people the benefit of the doubt and presume that they do have good intentions, so here’s your chance to try to calm down and speak clearly and give sound support for what you’re saying. :) As well as to be clear exactly what it is you’re saying…
  
  Also, GB is actually a “bad person”? Why in the world would you say that? He’s clearly a good person. Flawed, though, as are we all, including you…
  
  Report this comment
- bonesiii
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 3:25pm
  Mary, I want to ask, seriously, with a limitation (:P), how old are you? (The limitation is, if you’re over, say, 20, you can just say that, for obvious reasons, lol.) I’m getting an odd vibe that you may be very young, and taking on something a bit beyond your years and that may be creating some of the problems. :)
  
  At least, I would hope that no adult uses such highly oversimplified thinking… It is beginning to look like there would not be much more point in your continuing this conversation as it almost appears like you may honestly be too young or mentally unable to comprehend complex topics like the communism thing you brought up. And I would not want to be insulting to a child. :) (Or really to anyone; I just want us all to find the truth. ^_^)
  
  Either way, take this piece of advice, meant in all seriousness, from an experienced truthseeker and logician. :) Don’t form your opinions based on emotional reactions to superficial trivialities. Like, “he mentioned communists in any positive light, he must be bad, contradictory,” etc. Rather, listen to what the person said about WHY they said what they said, and also, learn logic. Learn how to discern good reasoning from bad reasoning. For example, learn why wild conjecture is not “proof” as you called it. I’m not trying to insult you, but this is my area of expertise and this can help you. :)
  
  If, then, you disagree with their -reasoning-, point out why, etc.
  
  Report this comment
- marybethelizabeth
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 3:41pm
  no
  
  The point is whether or not you can rely on Glenn Beck to give you facts to think on critically.
  
  I started with no opinion. Then I heard him say something that wasn’t true, and then again, and then again.
  
  And I formed a hypothesis that much of what Glenn Beck says isn’t true.
  
  Then I observe and test my hypothesis.
  
  Propping up Glenn Beck as a spokesman for a ideology is settling for less than mediocre.
  
  it’s settling for a Statist spokeman.
  
  Report this comment
- bonesiii
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 3:57pm
  “I started with no opinion. Then I heard him say something that wasn’t true, and then again, and then again.”
  What did he say that in your opinion isn’t true, and what sound reasoning do you have (if any ;) for saying they aren’t true, or are you just assuming, etc.?
  
  Report this comment
- marybethelizabeth
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 4:09pm
  BonesIII
  
  Your childish belief in that Glenn Beck is a good person when the vast majority of the evidence would lead any impartial observer to the opposite conclusion is not logical.
  
  Report this comment
- bonesiii
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 5:13pm
  “the vast majority of the evidence”
  Such as?
  
  Report this comment
- UNALIEN
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 6:43pm
  MARYBETHELIZABETH
  
  I suggest you read a good book on logic, you make the same error all ideological leftists make..
  
  the fallacy, just because Beck oar anyone says something does not make it true or false..
  
  If Beck calls Obama a Marxist, no matter what you think of Beck that is trivial and has no impact on the substantive argument, is Obama a Marxist. Ideological leftist only accept a truth if they are told by a perceived credible source, this is a fallacy. Nobody should believe anything Beck says because he says it but because it is reasoned and logical. So, attacking the credibility of a source does not exhibit critical thinking. The test is the credibility of the reasoned argument. You confuse opinion with arguments. Your opinion is Beck is evil, so your confirmation bias makes anything he says wrong. This is a logical fallacy. A perversion of context by focusing on his character and avoiding the substance of an argument. Becks character does not determine Obamas Marxism.
  
  Report this comment
- bonesiii
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 8:34pm
  Basically, Mary is trying to commit character assassination. The fallacy runs like this. Person X said Y. Y is bad. Therefore Person X is a bad person. Person X said Z (where Z is everything else the person has ever said or will ever say). Therefore Z is bad.
  
  The problem with this is that absolutely every statement made by anyone could be ruled out by this logic, including the character assassin themselves. In fact, even if you believe, as I do, that Jesus was sinless, everything he ever said could be ruled out, because other people have agreed with it and said it. If taken to its logical conclusion it reduces all communication to nonsense, becoming self-defeating. It’s one of a vast array of attempted “cheating” methods to find truth (or rule it out) that people use, but is not sound logic. You just can’t cheat your way to truth.
  
  I don’t believe in people being all right or all wrong — other than Jesus. ;) That, in fact, is what is childish. I believe in human beings.
  
  Report this comment
biohazard23
Posted on February 14, 2013 at 7:44am
Crikey….

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Gonzo
Posted on February 14, 2013 at 7:43am
He should have posted an online manifesto about right wing, racist models on line and the leftists would hold him up as a hero.

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- Gonzo
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 8:50am
  When Libertarians defend criminals and despots like Dorner and Ahmadinejad, they don’t seem reasonable to most people Soy.
  
  Report this comment
- soybomb315_II
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 8:57am
  Gonzo – i see my post was removed twice. Looks like this group believes in controlling speech – just like Ahmadinejad. So while you make false characterizations, think about which side you are fighting for
  
  Report this comment
- soybomb315_II
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 8:58am
  wanting rule of law is not the same as defending Dorner. Why resort to 3rd grade tactics?
  
  Report this comment
- RJJinGadsden
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 9:33am
  Hell GONZO, he spent the entire day yesterday defending Dorner. Oh, and I don’t have an open mind simply because I don’t agree with his there is an LAPD conspiracy theory behind every tree in the Big Bear community. This imbecile sounds more like ENCINOM every day.
  
  Report this comment
- soybomb315_II
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 9:38am
  RJ is a habitual sal alinsky poster
  
  Here are the articles – you will see that I wanted the whole story – not just the fairytale version the media is presenting. Also wanted the cops to do their duty, not become executioner – if you think our government is out of control, SO SHOULD YOU. But instead you guys play childish games
  
  http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/13/columbia-professors-shock-claim-on-cnn-dorners-rampage-almost-like-watching-django-unchained-in-real-life-its-kind-of-exciting/
  
  http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/13/sheriff-says-cabin-not-purposely-burned-down-in-dorner-standoff/
  
  Report this comment
- Gonzo
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 9:44am
  I thought it was a polite condemnation of your defense of a mass murderer. I didn’t call you names and never do. Most of the time I have come to your defense because I agree with a lot of what you say. I just flat out disagree with you that anyone, including the police, should risk their lives in order to capture a sh*tbag like Dorner alive. I don’t think all cops are good guys, nor do I think they are all bad.
  
  Report this comment
- RJJinGadsden
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 9:51am
  SOYBOMB315_II
  I challenge any and all The Blaze readers who agree with SOY’s above post to please step in and make a post to support his position regarding my posts, retorts, and most often joking and taunting statements.
  Really, please. SOYBOMB315_II needs all of the help that he can get. Can’t you see his cry in the dark for such assistance?
  Damn SOY. Maybe your new confederate BARYMETHELIZABETH, will come to your aid.
  
  Report this comment
- Gonzo
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 9:59am
  R.J., you ARE such an Alinsky commie. LOL
  
  Report this comment
- RJJinGadsden
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 10:15am
  GONZO, LOL. Well, in a know your enemies attitude, I do have a copy of his Rules For Radicals. I have a number of books that I have been picking up for the past 30 to 35 years to include The Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf and a lot of others.
  Hey SOY, post your mailing address here and I will ship you my copy of Rules For Radicals and will include a prepaid return postage label. You can take a commie pinko highlighter (yeah, pink) and underscore all of the rules and writings that you say apply to me. Then return it for my reading pleasure.
  
  Report this comment
- soybomb315_II
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 11:24am
  Laugh it off all you want, but It is not unusual to become what you hate the most. One of life’s little ironies
  
  Report this comment
- RJJinGadsden
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 11:59am
  SOY, Thank you for your gracious allowance for me/us to laugh if we may. BTW, that is a powerful assumption that you have there regarding hate. I would never put my heart nor soul through the painful anguish of hate. Hate is such an all consuming emotion that requires far more effort than I am willing to invest is such an effort. I neither hate any person or thing. I disagree, distrust, disbelieve, or find myself in concern for others or things at times. While I do often find myself agreeing with you on a number of subjects here, and I do on occasion reply to tell you that. But, on other occasions when you have spent the better part of the day being a whining pest, then you suddenly say something that sounds right. Well, I just bypass it. On the other hand, you and I most often do not agree. Come to grips with that fact and learn to live and let live. If you would just learn that when you and I say something that does not mesh, understand that you have given your side, and I mine. Something that I learned over forty years ago from an old Vietnam veteran U.S. Marine. Opinions are like ********. Everybody has at least one, and they probably all stink. Only a fool will argue another man’s opinion. When you continue to drive on arguing with my opinion I will continue to take the opportunity to poke fun at you. You bring upon yourself.
  Oh yeah, that old Marine also taught me that dust bunnies are really ghost turds.
  
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- soybomb315_II
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 2:01pm
  No RJ – you misunderstand again
  
  I said you become what you hate. You hate the left and their saul alinsky tactics….But in doing so you have unknowingly adopted their tactics. You do it without even noticing
  
  Report this comment
- RJJinGadsden
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 3:06pm
  SOY, I did not misunderstand anything. I merely disagree with you and your tactics. Furthermore I clearly stated above that I do not hate anybody, or anything. Then laid out my feelings on just that subject. You simply foist your assumptions on me.
  Gee, I also guess that all that time that I spent on or very near the East German and Czech borders back during the Cold War, and with all of those Cuban Refugees must have taught me something. Apparently, my sense of humor is now a Saul Alinsky tactic. You sound as though you are the victim of being water boarded repeatedly with a mix of piss and vinegar. Do us all a favor and go bother somebody else for a while. If you don’t piss me off, I won’t Saul Alinsky you. Think about it.
  
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- soybomb315_II
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 3:10pm
  you should not use saul alinsky just because you disagree with someone. you should use facts and reason – otherwise you using the tactics of the left and all that patrolling you did in cold war was for not
  
  Report this comment
- RJJinGadsden
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 3:45pm
  SOY, Explain to me just what Saul Alinskly tactics I am using against you. I would like to read a fully articulated explanation from you. Your previous accusations leave me to guess that you must mean Rule #5. If you refer only to ridicule then allow me to explain that your constant whining brings it upon yourself. BTW, ridicule was around a very long time before Alinsky ever existed.
  But, get this through your very thick skull. I do not agree with you on most of the topics we have discussed here. Big freaking deal! I can only imagine that YOU also do not agree with me. Agreed?
  I do agree with you on some topics. Also, no big deal.
  Also, may I suggest you throttle back a bit on Rules #7 in particular, and #8. You have really become monotonous, and are making me come off as monotonous. But, if you won’t to keep up your continued use of 7 and 8, I’ll continue to flog you with 5. The choice is yours.
  
  Report this comment
SpankDaMonkey
Posted on February 14, 2013 at 7:36am
.
Ooops!……

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- KoolAidDrinker
  Posted on February 14, 2013 at 8:21am
  Roid Rage?
  
  Report this comment

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