Developing: Pakistani Plane Escorted by UK Fighter Jets — 2 Men Arrested
Doc Thompson’s 24-hour radio marathon, ‘#24forok,’ continues until 9 am ET — Listen Live!
‘Killing Jesus’: Bill O’Reilly to Pen New Book About Jesus Christ’s Murder
Photo Credit: Henry Holt
After selling millions of books about the assassinations of Abraham Lincoln and John F. Kennedy, Fox News host Bill O’Reilly is turning to the most famous killing of all — the murder of Jesus Christ.
It’s confirmed that O’Reilly’s third book in his popular “killing” series, “Killing Jesus: A History,” will be released on Sept. 24. Publisher Henry Holt and Co. announced Wednesday night that O’Reilly will collaborate on the book with Martin Dugard, his co-author for “Killing Lincoln” and “Killing Kennedy.”
According to a release put out by Holt, the book will explore the political and historical events that led to Jesus’ death. The Christian savior’s legacy and continued popularity is what helped lead the project to fruition, as the man who purportedly gave his life for the sins of humanity continues to have a prominent presence in contemporary society.
“Jesus Christ has not walked among us physically for more than 2,000 years, yet his presence today is felt the world over and his spirit is worshipped by more than 2.2 billion people,” O’Reilly said in a statement announcing the book. “His teachings, his legacy, his life as a flesh-and-blood man and his death created the world in which we live.”
Stephen Rubin, president of Holt, added, “It is inarguable that Jesus was the most influential man to have ever lived. I can think of no one better than Bill O’Reilly to write this story in a way that has never been told before.”
O’Reilly has written or co-written several best-sellers, including “Pinheads and Patriots” and “A Bold Fresh Piece of Humanity.” While “Killing Lincoln” has already been made into a television movie, “Killing Kennedy” has also been optioned for film adaptation.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Benghazi, IRS, AP...What's next? Only TheBlaze TV offers the truth from Glenn Beck, Andrew Wilkow, and Real News from TheBlaze. Get instant access and a free trial here.
Popular Stories
John McCain Lectures Tea Party Senator on How ‘Business’ Gets Done in Congress: ‘That’s What We’ve Been Doing for a Couple Hundred Years’ 594 Comments
Boy Scouts of America Vote to Allow Gay Members 521 Comments
Pope Francis’ Sermon Sparks Debate: ‘Even the Atheists’ Have Been Redeemed ‘With the Blood of Christ’ 498 Comments
Obama Doesn’t Return Marine’s Salute, Shakes Hand Instead — Is This a Protocol Misstep? 402 Comments
Game-Changing Bombshell? There’s a Major Twist in the Story About a High School Student’s Lesbian Relationship With a Minor 336 Comments
Faith
-
Game-Changing Bombshell? There’s a Major Twist in the Story About a High School Student’s Lesbian Relationship With a Minor
336 Comments
- Is the Boy Scouts’ Gay Amendment the ‘Beginning of the End’ for the Group? (Plus: Tell Us Where You Stand) 290 Comments
-
MSNBC Hosts Martin Bashir and Chris Hayes Claim London Machete Killers Aren’t Terrorists: ‘These Are Just Murderers’
153 Comments
-
Did You Catch the Possibly Policy-Changing Ft. Hood Reference in Obama’s Terror Speech?
Read More
-
Dem. Rep. Apologizes for Attending ‘Racist, Anti-Semitic and Homophobic’ Speech
Read More
Business
-
Have You Had Scotch at a NJ TGI Friday’s Lately? You Might Have Been Drinking Rubbing Alcohol
Read More
-
Venezuelan President Blames Toilet Paper Shortage on the Rich
Read More
-
This Terrible Chart Shows the Change in Food Stamp Participation Over the Last 10 Years
Read More
- Disney Makes Absolutely Mortifying Photoshop Mistake Read More
-
Trey Gowdy at It Again — This Time with a Jack Bauer Reference!
117 Comments
Technology
-
LOOK: Woman Claims to Have Photographed UFO in California
Read More
-
Lion Named ‘Bonedigger’ and Small Dog Make Most Unlikely Companions
Read More
-
Rocket Bike Sets Land Speed Record — and Uses a Fuel You Wouldn’t Expect
Read More
-
How 3D Printing Technology Created a Special Part for Baby’s Windpipe and Saved His Life
Read More
-
6 Fascinating Spy Gadgets You’ll Probably Want (and Can Have) After Seeing
Read More
Submitting your tip... please wait!
Comments (208)
jman-6
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:42amI just wish they would show some respect talking about the Deity: while JESUS was 100% man HE was also 100% GOD! The KING of KINGS and LORD of LORDS is very deserving! GOD SPEED
Report this comment
WhiteFang
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 10:42amWhat did jesus say about his being “murdered”?
17 This is why the Father loves me, because I surrender my soul, in order that I may receive it again. 18 No man has taken it away from me, but I surrender it of my own initiative. I have authority to surrender it, and I have authority to receive it again. The commandment on this I received from my Father.” (John 10 17-18)
Our Lord Jesus willingly sacrificed his human life to do Jehovah God’s will and to give us the opportunity to gain everlasting life. – John 17:3
Report this comment
WhiteFang
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 10:49am16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only‐begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him. (John 3:16-17)
Report this comment
WhiteFang
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 11:07amWhy was Jesus’ sacrifice necessary?
12 That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned—.13For until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not charged against anyone when there is no law.14Nevertheless, death ruled as king from Adam down to Moses, even over those who had not sinned after the likeness of the transgression by Adam, who bears a resemblance to him that was to come. (Romans 5:12-14)
So, then, as through one trespass the result to men of all sorts was condemnation, likewise also through one act of justification the result to men of all sorts is a declaring of them righteous for life.19For just as through the disobedience of the one man many were constituted sinners, likewise also through the obedience of the one [person] many will be constituted righteous.20Now the Law came in beside in order that trespassing might abound. But where sin abounded, undeserved kindness abounded still more.21To what end? That, just as sin ruled as king with death, likewise also undeserved kindness might rule as king through righteousness with everlasting life in view through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 5:18-21)
Report this comment
Dan_o
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 2:13pmWhitefang, why did you leave out Rom 5:15-17?
[15] But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. [16] And the free gift is not like the result of that one man’s sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. [17] For if, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
(Romans 5:15-17 ESV)
Report this comment
L.B.Stephens
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 2:35pmDan_o,
Maybe WhiteFang was concerned about brevity.
I do not enjoy long comments and I think most readers do not want to invest the time reading a large post.
Report this comment
theotherberean
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 2:38pmWHITE why does the WTS blatantly alter the text of the Bible to support their doctrines, and then claim to be the only group to speak for God? Some of your doctrines clearly came from men. Take for example the 144,000 and the little flock, which came as an alleged revelation from Rutherford.
Report this comment
L.B.Stephens
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 2:54pmtheotherberean,
The 144,000 and the little flock, which came as an alleged revelation from Rutherford.
Don’t you know that “revelation” came from God, and then through Jesus and then an angel, and finally given to John, the apostle of Jesus Christ. – Revelation 1:1
It was given to John centuries before Rutherford was even born. What are you trying to do, stir up trouble? Yours is a pathetic attempt to foment discord. Shame on you sir.
Report this comment
Dan_o
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 2:59pmL.B.STEPHENS, I prefer full exposition of the bible. If you can’t quote it accurately, perhaps not at all is better.
Report this comment
L.B.Stephens
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 3:23pmOkay Dan_o,
The next time someone quotes the Bible I will take the time to encourage them to quote the entire bible chapter.
Maybe they will do so, to not offend Dan_o.
Report this comment
theotherberean
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 3:35pmLB No, this is the revelation revealed by Rutherford:. The WT 1 Feb 82 p28 says “the heavenly hope was held out, highlighted, and stressed until about the year 1935. Then ‘as light flashed up’ to reveal clearly the identity of the ‘great crowd’ of Rev 7:9, the emphasis began to be placed on the earthly hope.”
This “earthly hope” instead of heaven, is for you, LB, and all JW’s since 1935 – as well as Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the OT prophets who have died and are the “other sheep” who will experience a “resurrection of life” and earthly blessings but not heaven. But read Matt 8:11 “I tell you that many will come from the east and the west, and will sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the Kingdom of Heaven,”
In no way is Luke 12:32 speaking of a group of 144,00 members of an anointed class that would develop from Biblical times until 1935. Where is there any specific indication in Luke 12:32 that these are the 144,000 spoken of in Rev 7 and 14? Where do the Scriptures indicate this “little flock” will only accept members until 1935? The WTS says it’s the only group on earth which follows the Bible, but this doctrine of men was an alleged revelation given to J.F. Rutherford.
Not once in Jesus’ ministry did He limit the kingdom to 144,000. He taught that all should seek it and whoever sought it would find it. Matt 9:35-38; Mark 1:14,15; Luke 12:22-34.
John 5:1 “Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God.”
Not just the 1
Report this comment
L.B.Stephens
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 3:44pmtheother….. – Where do the Scriptures indicate this “little flock” will only accept members until 1935?
The Holy Scriptures does not say that. Why are you saying it?
Get away from me, you worker of lawlessness!
Report this comment
Dan_o
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 3:48pmQuote it in context. I still don’t see an answer, btw. He placed 3 posts out of brevity, I suppose.
Further, Berean isn’t questioning whether the 144,000 are explicitly stated in Revelation, but what you believe about who those people are. If your religion places your ranks above all others, you may be in a cult.
Your response is less than becoming, btw, a fault you have also placed on Berean.
Report this comment
theotherberean
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 3:57pmThanks Dan_o.
I could only add that the NWT is not a reliable translation. The text has been altered by the WTS to suit the doctrines of men.
Report this comment
Dan_o
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 4:07pmBerean, these aren’t your father’s JW’s. I remember when they would politely knock on your door, listen to you defend Christ’s deity, debate you with the same select scriptures out of context, and go away. Fairer times.
Report this comment
WhiteFang
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 4:13pmL.B.Stephens,
Don’t fret about ‘theother’.
His understanding is so convoluted and influenced by false religious traditions and doctrines that all he can do is attack those who do not meet his personal standard of a Christian.
If I quote a scripture and he feels it conflicts with his personal idea of what it should say, he attacks the person who quoted it claiming it did not say that, or he will ignore it altogether.
For instance, above I quoted; “The commandment on this I received from my Father.” (John 10 17-18)” theother will not, or cannot accept what it says, but will continue to claim that Jesus is our Almighty GOD who gave Jesus the commandment.
I hope to somehow get through to him, but it is frustrating at this point.
Report this comment
theotherberean
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 4:36pmWHITE I notice that rather than address my arguments, you attack my character in an attempt to marginalise the damage. Hideous tactic, and intellectually dishonest.
I’m sure truth seekers will examine the arguments and draw their own conclusion as to who is lying, rather than blindly believing what you tell them to believe.
Dan, yes, I know. Haven’t seen one at my door for a long time. We seldom get past “Can you name the scholars who translated the NWT?” or “Who is Jesus bringing back with Him in 1 Thess 4:14? No, it can’t be Abraham, Isasc and Jacob” and then they suddenly remember somewhere else they need to be…
Report this comment
Bearfoot
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 4:45pmtheother…,
May I quote you, I think your words are very good;
“I’m sure truth seekers will examine the arguments and draw their own conclusion as to who is lying, rather than blindly believing what you tell them to believe.”
In the interest of ‘peace’, perhaps we can rest on those words.
Report this comment
theotherberean
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 5:32pmBEAR, you engaged me by attacking my character. Now you want to call a truce and for me to stop pointing out the lies and errors of the WTS cult?
So you can continue to spread those lies?
Not a chance, bozo. LoL
Report this comment
theotherberean
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 6:29pmWHITE if the body and soul are one and the same – the “life force” – as the WT teaches, and if Jesus surrenders His own life force, who then is this “He” that will still be around to “take it back again?” It doesn’t say He is “given” his life force back, it says “He” “takes” it back. Again, who is this “He.”
And I know you consider this just spewing lies, but if this is just lies then it shouldn’t be difficult for you to dispute these lies with the “truth.” Right?
Report this comment
UNALIEN
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 6:38pmBill O’Reilly is a pinhead
The book about Jesus Christ’s murder already exists
Report this comment
Greenwood
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:12pmOTHER ……..You are posting the same arguments over and over. It look like you are just copying and pasting your old post from the Pope story from the last few days. You’re going to get the same answer here. Like I told you (Hebrews 5:11-14 ) instead of getting some milk though maybe you should buy a COW.
Report this comment
theotherberean
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 11:07pmGREEN
If I’m posting arguments over and over it’s because you’re dodging them. You’re the one who keeps posting the same Scriptures over and over again, with no explanation why those Scriptures should be understood as you want me to understand them.,expecting me to just “get it.” Well, I do get it, and what you want me to understand is simply not there. I have shown you that time and again.
Report this comment
universalphilos
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 1:27amSpiritual philosophy – a question was asked, May 21, 1970: “What influence did the entity, Jesus, have on us? He said in Matthew, Chapter 28, at the end of the chapter, he says, ‘I will be with you till the end of the age.’ Is this, uh, the Christ, or is this the entity, Jesus? Or do I understand what I’m trying to say?”
“For, as Jesus reached the Christ state, and went to God to dwell in His mansion, so should all of man dwell in God’s mansions, for God loves thy children, and cries for His children.
At the end of all planes is the Christ state for man, for they shall all become one. As Christ, your savior, as Jesus, your savior, was crucified, did he not say, ‘Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do?’
If you and my Father shall walk among all men forever, so should He walk with you now. But, as a good father, God would pick His hurt child up from his fall and kiss him; He must let this child go on and grow to a man. That is your free choice.
Can you understand this?”
Report this comment
apologies0
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 5:34amChrist is Omnipotent:
Philippians 3:20-21:
“For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.”
Christ is Omniscient:
Colossians 2:2-3:
“that their hearts may be encouraged, having been knit together in love, and attaining to all the wealth that comes from the full assurance of understanding, resulting in a true knowledge of God’s mystery, that is, Christ Himself, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.”
Christ is Omnipresent:
2 Corinthians 2:14:
“But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumph in Christ, and manifests through us the sweet aroma of the knowledge of Him in every place.”
Christ is the great I AM:
John 8:58:
” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” ”
Christ will judge mankind:
2 Corinthians 5:10:
” For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. ”
And so much more.
I’m sorry dear, but the NWT is not a reliable translation. If you truly are a seeker of truth, then please seek this out for yourself. If your bible is defensible then it will hold up to scrutiny.
This is an excellent critique:
http://ittsy.com
Report this comment
SquidVetOhio
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:38am“And be sure to read my new book on Quantum Physics by the same publisher!”
- Brittany Spears
Report this comment
Eastinfection
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:45amlol. Hit me, baby, one more time.
Report this comment
Jase
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 8:29pmLol, exactly.
I can’t wait to read the story of our Lord and Savior by a common mainstream media dolt. No offense O’Reilly… you look great in make-up…
Report this comment
Publius
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:37amI gave up on the bloviator in chief years ago. He is the last one I would turn to fro a trieste on Christ.
He is the most public CINO who should be shunned.
Report this comment
BlackTalonAmmo
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 1:46pmWhere’s the book about “O’Really?’s” abuse of female underlings? He can ghost write under the pseudonym “Ted Baxter.” This punk thinks he is bigger than he really is. “Bazooka Bll!”
Report this comment
trolltrainer
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:34amO’Reilly and theology just don’t mix. He is a believer but is clueless about Christianity.
Report this comment
txjb
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 12:12pmYou are so right .
Report this comment
mlite9
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 12:53pmThere is no better account of Christ’s sufferings and so much indescribably important insight as to WHY, than in the Holy Bible. What Mr. O’Correct thinks he can add to that is unknowable. Perhaps his treatment will be the popcorn that creates a thirst for the real deal.
Report this comment
teawithjill
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:31amIs this news, if I never see or hear Bill O’Reilly again I won’t be missing anything. Stopped watching him 2 years ago and stopped reading him 4 years ago. Bill go home, retire, at this point you are one of the things wrong with Fox.
Report this comment
The-Monk
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:09amI noticed no one commented on the Cross…..
Report this comment
Eastinfection
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:48amYOURSENSEI sounds very cross.
It is so…
typical of him.
Report this comment
trolltrainer
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:48amWow yourstupidness,
This is what you must know:
You really are totally clueless!
It is so.
Report this comment
SquidVetOhio
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:58am@NOBODY’S SENSEI
Way to be judgmental pal. Glass houses and all of that.
Ever notice how all it takes for someone to “lose their faith” is to meet like 1 bad self-proclaimed Christian. I bet Satan laughs at how easy it is. He should read the Screwtape Letters.
Report this comment
YOURSENSEI
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:59amThis is what you must know:
Wailings of the guilty. God knows I’m right.
It is so.
Report this comment
ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 10:04amI hope Bill is at least honest in his Christianity and admit like a few others on here that they wanted Jesus to die. That they needed Jesus to die. That if given the chance to go back in time and stop this horrible murder/human sacrifice, they would sit by and watch the event unfold as is. A few of them may even look on in gleeful enjoyment knowing now that this torture and sacrifice has taken place, they are “redeemed” and “washed clean” and can now spend an “eternity” “worshiping” “The one TRUE God”
To be a Christian you have to accept that humans are born worthy of an eternal torture and that we are in need of a human sacrifice on our behalf to avoid said torture. I’ll pass on that, thanks though.
And they call this morality?
Report this comment
YOURSENSEI
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 10:10amThis is what you must know:
Yes, yes . . . my post reported and removed by the guilty and weak in spirit. So flimsy in your faith. So ashamed of your place in life. So mired in pizza.
It is so.
Report this comment
DLV
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 10:41amMod as I said last night on the gay mormon page, bring debate material to the floor or leave. Stop insulting Christians, it’s getting nauseating.
Report this comment
ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 11:02am@DLV
What are you talking about?
You could have easily responded to what I said and tried to refute it instead of posting what you did.
I said, “To be a Christian you have to accept that humans are born worthy of an eternal torture and that we are in need of a human sacrifice on our behalf to avoid said torture. I’ll pass on that, thanks though.”
You could have responded to that. You could have refuted that. Fact is, you didn’t. You NEVER do. You just say, “you’re wrong” and “It’s been explained to you before” when actuality it hasn’t. I just get another form of, “that’s not true” or “you’re dumb.”
Please, you have me in the here and now, reading your post and responding. Take what I wrote, “”To be a Christian you have to accept that humans are born worthy of an eternal torture and that we are in need of a human sacrifice on our behalf to avoid said torture. I’ll pass on that, thanks though.”"
and tell me how I am wrong. Don’t give me a variation of, “you’re wrong” or “it’s been said before.” Tell me how I am wrong.
If you’re saying what I said is wrong, tell me why. Now if you’re just objecting to it by saying it’s “insulting” but not “wrong” well there is nothing I can do about that.
If what I say is the truth, and you are insulted by the truth then take it up with your religion, not me.
Report this comment
Xyskalla
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 11:43am@Mod, you are wrong.
I didn’t want my Lord to die. I didn’t ask Him to, and in a million years it never would have occurred to me to ask it of Him. I’m the guilty one, not He. I deserve God’s wrath, not He. But He chose to die in our place, because He knows we don’t have the ability to pay for our crimes against the sovereign Lord of creation, and I’m thankful He did. I never would have known how truly radical His love for me was if He hadn’t done it.
Report this comment
DLV
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 11:43amMod- It’;s been explained to you before by SleazyHippo. You’re the one using ad hominem attacks. IF you want me to address you fully fine. The reason why I haven’t is because you have never gotten it in the past when people correct you. I never said you’re dumb just ignorant of Christianity. But you’re still a problem considering the people you’re condemning. anyway…
Advection actually explained it pretty well yesterday on the Gay mormon page with this… “Regarding the original sin, I guess you’re saying its unjust to punish us for Adam’s sin? Try this on for size. It was within God’s rights to kill Adam on the spot, and there wouldn’t be any us. But God showed mercy, and the suffering humans endure isn’t commensurate to the rewards ahead.”
God showed mercy to Adam by not killing him there. Adam was our rep and we as humanity have to suffer with that. God being fair, I trust that at some point even if some people would have lasted longer than Adam and Eve, but still would have failed. So therefore ,we are sinful by our own means which is why it is just and not unjust but God again showed mercy and gave us Jesus to save us from ourselves when he didn’t need to. If you choose not God’s way and insist on living in sin who’s fault is it? No God’s. So again you insist on the negative when it’s actually an overwhelming positive. If you respond be polite and no ad hominem attacks. Or else, you will be doomed to fail from the start.
Report this comment
ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 12:55pm@XYSKALLA
Yup, you’re guilty of being born. How dare you.
I notice in your entire response, there was one main thing you didn’t respond to.
I said, “…That if given the chance to go back in time and stop this horrible murder/human sacrifice, they would sit by and watch the event unfold as is.”
So judging by your omission of this in your response, I can take it that you would as I said, NOT try and stop the event from happening?
Is it moral to have someone take your place for your punishment? Shouldn’t you have to pay for your actions? Again, the mere action of you being born makes you guilty of a sinful nature and in need of redemption.
@DLV
I am making an argument against your stance, not your character. That’s not ad hominem.
You say it’s moral to accept that Jesus died on our behalf for “sins” that our people are originally born with.
I’m saying that it’s not moral.
The arguments on here are “God is love”
I am making points on why if God did exist, it surely isn’t love that he’s exhibiting.
I’m going to capitalize words that I think are the crux of my argument to see if it makes a difference.
You say “God is in his right to kill Adam right there.”
Your GOD created Adam KNOWING he would disobey.
Your GOD created a system KNOWING Jesus would have to DIE for our SINS.
Your GOD created a system KNOWING BILLIONS of people would receive an ETERNAL HELL for simply not BELIEVING in him.
You can see this right?
Report this comment
The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 1:02pmThanks for the explanation DLV…your god sounds horrible…so like MOD…no thanks.
Report this comment
DLV
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 1:36pmMod- You say it’s moral to accept that Jesus died on our behalf for “sins” that our people are originally born with.”
Mod the love part comes in when God is constantly trying to get us to repent when we won’t. IT was our fault we F’ed up and you blame him for and I explain why that isn’t fair below. The love part is Jesus dying for us which is the ONLY way when he didn’t have to. If that’s not love don’t know what is. On your terms it’s like your wife giving her life so she could save yours. At her funeral, you would say she loved you immensely to do that for you. The bible says it is the ultimate act of love to lay down your life for another. Done and Done.
Your GOD created Adam KNOWING he would disobey.”
Explained below.
Your GOD created a system KNOWING Jesus would have to DIE for our SINS.”
Still doesn’t matter. It’s the actions not the knowing that counts. Also like I said there is debate on this and there is no clear cut answer all the time.
Your GOD created a system KNOWING BILLIONS of people would receive an ETERNAL HELL for simply not BELIEVING in him.”
When humans are given overwhelming evidence for his existence and they harden their hearts and hate him. Who’s fault is it really? You side with the guilty. I side with the innocent. You still cannot deny it was humans who fell and it screwed it up when there were no barriers to our success.
Doors- I’m not talking to you. You’re more hopeless than Mod is.
Report this comment
ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 1:55pm@DLV
The difference is, your God set up the system for us to fail…..and then blames us when we fail.
“On your terms it’s like your wife giving her life so she could save yours.”
I would argue my wife pushing me out of the way of a moving car is more honorable then Jesus saying, “hey you know that “sin” I created and knew you were going to commit? Yeah, I’m now going to save you from that sin and all you have to do is LOVE ME OR GO TO HELL FOREVER!”
I maintain that it’s all made up, none of it is true and that one day the religions of this time will be looked upon like the God’s of the past like Zeus, Odin and Apollo…..as to have never existed in the first place.
Report this comment
DLV
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 5:03pmThe difference is, your God set up the system for us to fail…..and then blames us when we fail.”
Please explain how do anything you want except a single fruit is setting us up to fail? That seems like God if anything gave humans a huge advantage. See these are the kind of ignorant statements, I’m talking about.
““hey you know that “sin” I created and knew you were going to commit? ”
Another ignorant statement, God didn’t create any sin, humans did. You claim you’re using Christian beliefs for arguments against then use all of it and BE CONSISTENT! Whether or not he knew we committed it doesn’t make a difference he wanted humanity to be his companions and we failed him. You big argument in all of this is why did create us if he knew we would fail. I will repeat this question below so don’t worry.
Why should I not exist because humanity wants to reject God? How is that fair to me? What if God knew we would sin but still wanted to give those who believed in him a chance? Hmmm. Again I ask why should I not exist because others decide to sin and not put their faith in God.
is LOVE ME OR GO TO HELL FOREVER!”
Again failing with the consistency, that’s how falsely view it. It’s actual more like this. You screwed up and your punishment is death (Hell). But guess what I love you so much that I (Jesus) will sacrifice myself so that you don’t need to pay for your actions. Sounds a lot different now huh mod? Again be consistent with christian argu
Report this comment
Xyskalla
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 2:15am@Mod
Of course I didn’t respond to your statement. It’s not possible. Even if the impossibility of time travel weren’t an issue, it still wouldn’t be possible. No one could have stopped Christ’s sacrifice—it was the will of God. He went to a lot of trouble to make it happen, and I couldn’t have done squat to prevent it. You’re implying that I should have deliberately fought against the known will of God. Any response I give would have reasons behind it that have nothing to do with what you implied in your original post.
What are the options? If I say I wouldn’t prevent the crucifixion, then I’m a horrible person who cackles with glee as an Innocent is tortured for my crimes while I get off scot–free; but if I say I would stop the crucifixion, then I’m saying I know better than God, I must have a low view of His wisdom if I would deliberately try to disrupt His plan, or you could say God must be pretty weak if His plans are so easily thwarted. You set up a seemingly no-win scenario.
At least in your mind. Like I said, my reasons have nothing to do with the implications in your post. Those implications are pretty much irrelevant to me, which is why I didn’t think the statement that is impossible anyway was worth responding to.
Report this comment
Xyskalla
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 2:23amSorry, the character count was getting too low to finish in my previous post.
Mod, let’s say I stole a billion dollars from you and blew it on a massive partying and gambling binge. I burned the rest to get rid of the evidence when I saw you closing in on me. When you finally caught up with me, you decided to forgive me. Who paid the price for my crime? You did. That is the nature of forgiveness. The Cross is an extremely graphic illustration of that truth.
You seem to think that God has to let you get away with anything you want, no matter how heinous, because He knew you were going to do it. God is not such a fool.
Report this comment
battles
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:04amStick with the Bible. No telling what this guy might come up with.
Report this comment
DreWells
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:00amI saw the title of this book and that Bill was writing it. I thought it was a joke at first.
Report this comment
vaman
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 8:52amjesus, another book about jesus. Didn’t he die, good let’s leave it that way. O’Reilly is pretty keen. Profiting from a jesus book, knowing all of the jesus followers will be curious to read it.
Report this comment
Eastinfection
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:03amSo…. no more books about dead people?
The Progs aren’t going to like that. How else are they going to re-write history?
Report this comment
SquidVetOhio
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:23am“Didn’t he die”
For like 3 days. You should have kept reading. It gets better.
Report this comment
SocialistSlayer
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 8:43amBill Oreilly – Is a Pompous Communist Liberal Traitor ! I wouldn’t buy one of his silly books if you paid me to do it ! Blaze – Keep this Jerk off the site – It makes me want to throw up !
Report this comment
Tigress1
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:22amI agree. What’s his obsession about “killing” anyway? Pretty creepy.
Report this comment
Jase
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:29pmHe should write a book on something he actually knows about, like ‘Electing Obama’.
In 2008, he painted obama as a moderate. Most true conservatives were not fooled by his propaganda, but sadly, many mainstream undecided fox news watchers were.
Report this comment
DukeUSA
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 8:38amA book does not need to be written to express the message of Jesus Christ. God has preserved the Bible for thousands of years and it will survive until the end of human history (at least 1007 years from now minimum). It is only understood when taught by men that have the gift of pastor-teacher and have the many years of training in the original languages. O’Reilly regularly tells us he is a Bible expert yet I would bet no where in his book will he state that “Jesus Christ died as a substitute for us”. This book will be full of false doctrine and premises that will only lead readers farther from the Truth.
Report this comment
SquidVetOhio
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 8:51amOh brother, here we go. Anyone who’s ever heard or read anything O’reilly has to say about the Bible knows that he’s cosmically ignorant of the subject.
He’s the Kim Kardashian of the theological world. A celebrity with nothing intelligent to say.
Report this comment
SquidVetOhio
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:35am@SONOFTHUNDER
As an ex-catholic, you are more qualified to speak on it than I am but, I would point out that C.S. Lewis was also Catholic. I’m a fundamental Baptist but, I believe Lewis to be one the greatest Christian apologists to ever live. I think he was in opposition to some of the Catholic doctrines but remained loyal to them nonetheless. I believe there are a lot of Catholics out there that know sound doctrine and are probably opposed to many of the “official teachings” but remain loyal to their church for some personal reason. Especially American Catholics since we as Americans generally have a problem with anyone telling us what to believe without checking up on it (or used to).
Report this comment
trolltrainer
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:41amHis interview with Bill Maher was classic. Maher tore him up and backed Bill into so many corners I was amazed. I am a Christian and could have made short work out of all Maher’s points, but Bill got nothing right.
I am one of the few here who actually respects and even likes Bill O’Reilly. I don’t have to agree with someone to respect them. Bill is a sharp guy and he is easy to read. He is not a deep thinker. His theology shows that.
Report this comment
ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 10:08am@SONOFTHUNDER
So your goal is to get into a Bible match with him?
I always love when two people from the same faith get into an argument.
They have different viewpoints, yet both appeal to the divinity of the Bible as proof their claims are right.
Let me ask you, on what grounds can you call O’Reilly a heretic?
Report this comment
SonOfThunder
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 10:54amI am not sure why my post was deleted. It seems they don’t like criticism of catholics or mormons.
@squid I dont know CS Lewis’ heart so I don’t know if he was born again as a catholic. I will find out when I get to heaven. I do like some of his quotes on creation and God. Each catholic will have to decide whether they believe in Jesus alone or they must do works to be good enough to get into heaven. Sorry to say most catholics are blinded by the god of this age which is Satan. I don’t folks like oreilly hearts but I know what God said. Catholics lack the knowledge of the Bible. I know for a fact the priests in seminary only study the bible for 6 months and then spend the rest of their years in the man made catechism
Simply repent and put your trust it Jesus.
Roman 10:9 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Report this comment
4BlueStars
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 11:12am@ SQUIDVETOHIO, Actually C.S. Lewis was Anglican, Church of England, or in this country Episcopalian. Subtle, but important distinction, I think.
Report this comment
SquidVetOhio
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 12:45pm@4BLUESTARS
Really? I’ll admit I could be wrong. I thought he was Catholic. He was converted by J.R.R. Tolkien (his best friend) who I know is Catholic.
Report this comment
SimpleMan03
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:54pmSonofthunder
Don’t forget Romans 6:3-4. Confessing and believing are only part of His plan of salvation.
Report this comment
PureFox
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 11:17pmWhile it is true, that Bill may not mention our Savior’s sacrifice, but that doesn’t mean that we have to judge or condemn him. Remember that no one fully understands each other’s lives, other than our Savior and Heavenly Father.
Report this comment
Jadedfate
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 4:03pmPreserved it? That’s hilarious. I love how ignorant true believers are of facts.
Report this comment
poorrichard09
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 8:26amHe must think it’s really edgey to use the word Killing _____. I’m a proud gun owner and citizen, but after the Sandy Hook massacre (an others) I think using Killing as a buzz word is in really poor taste, and it disgusts me.
Report this comment
Eastinfection
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 8:58amSeriously?
Lincoln was killed.
Kennedy was killed.
Jesus was killed.
Those kids and teachers in Sandy Hook were killed.
They were killed by killers who were killing people.
Killing!
Killing!
Killing!
Sticks and stones, man.
sticks and stones.
Report this comment
cdn1979
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 8:20amGranted, the life and sacrifice of Jesus is a remarkable story. i think its sad people are trying to profit off of it. I remember a book called the bible that is already in circulation. tells the story quite well. You can download it for free off almost any site. people hand them out on street corners. spreading the word should not come with a price tag. putting Jesus on the same level as Kennedy or Lincoln is quite insulting as well. God loves all his children, but certain ones were special. I think Jesus ranks a touch higher than some presidents. that’s my two cents.
Report this comment
FiscalBill
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 8:07amWhen will “Killing Time” be released. No one’s contacted me and Im sure Im the leading expert on that topic.
Report this comment
shortnsweet
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 8:15amLOL I’m doing that right now. Will you include me in your book.
Report this comment
Independent4233
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 8:25amIt will be out shortly after the long awaited story of struggle, self-sacrifice and brilliance, by Jesse Jackson, Jr., entitled, “Making it on my own.”
(Sub title: “From the Congress to the Slammer by Way of the Nut Ward”)
Report this comment
shortnsweet
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 8:07amJESUS RESSURECTON is the saving grace of the Bible. His death means nothing without it.
Report this comment
shortnsweet
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 8:01amThat Book has been written. It’s called the Bible!!!! The books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John in the Bible tell the story of Jesus life, death and ressurection from the cross.
If written so it’s an easy read, this could be a good thing for people who have trouble reading and understanding the Bible.
With his past books he had to deal with historians nit-picking facts, now the Theologians will be scrutinizing every word.
Report this comment
TROONORTH
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 8:01amI’m not sure but hasn’t this been covered in another book?
Report this comment
jackact
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 7:57amHow about this tome, “Killing Media Moderate Populism” then we won’t have to suffer this fool for another 11 years. 25 years at ABC and a 2 year Harvard business degree does not make a real conservative.
Report this comment
Rightallalong
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 8:10amBILLO goes whatever way the wind is blwoing … he believes your rights of a gun owner are to be taken away by the really smart people that run this government … and that the Oath to the Constitution is worthless
Bill on gun control and the Oath
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Isd0FlGb_LY
BILL is a piece of garbage and ANYONE that believes he is anything more than controlled opposition for OBAMA , they are a bigger piece of garbage
Report this comment
Locked
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 7:54amWell, as Jesus was not “murdered,” we seem to be off to a poor start. Granted, the article headline is Billy Hallowell’s invention, not Bill O’Reilly’s.
Report this comment
VaARNG_Guardsman
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 8:43amSince Jesus was not murdered, he must have died from natural causes.
Report this comment
Locked
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:17amIllogical statement. He was killed, but not murdered. His execution was legal, though based on trumped up charges and backed by his own people. Not to mention he knew he was to be executed but still did so willingly.
Report this comment
Eastinfection
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:29amLOCKED…
I don’t see the need for a distinction.
If the charges were trumped up, then the Crucifixion was NOT legal.
Report this comment
YOURSENSEI
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:40amThis is what you must know:
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
It is so.
Report this comment
The-Monk
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 10:14amOh look…. Wang Dang is pretending to be a “sleeper cell”… LMAO !!!
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Report this comment
Eastinfection
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 10:21amlol MONK…
I thought he was trying to be a bee…
or a mosquito.
Report this comment
DLV
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 10:43amEast- good point! Not legal.
Report this comment
tzion
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 10:45amHe did challenge Roman authority, a crime that many were executed for back then.
Report this comment
VaARNG_Guardsman
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 2:19pmMurdering is when someone is unjustly killed…..so you are saying the killing was justified.
Report this comment
theotherberean
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 4:01pmMurdered or killed depends on how the verb is used. With or without the object.
Report this comment
soybomb315_II
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 7:49amits bad enough that people take political advice from O’Reilly. Now they will be getting spiritual information from him…..Reillybots
Report this comment
Eastinfection
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:01amIf it’s anything like “Killing Lincoln”, it will simply be an historic event reframed as a dramatic murder mystery.
I’m actually looking forward to it.
Report this comment
huey6367
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 7:47amwhat about the “Killing Liberals” book? When does that come out? (I am joking. I don’t want anyone killed. So chill out)
Report this comment
azghost
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 7:39amMr O’Reilly must not have read the Bible… Jesus said no one can take my life for I come to give my life freely. Jesus was not murdered, he came to this earth to lay his life down for others. With out Him doing that no one would be able to enter heaven. Before Jesus came to earth to atone for your sins one had to sacrifice an unblemished animal. Jesus is Gods unblemished lamb. Jesus was the last sacrifice, His blood sacrifice pleased God the father. When God looks down on all man kind he looks for His sons blood on those that have accepted His son. Adam sold out to Satan and Jesus bought us back by shedding His blood!
Report this comment
Gonzo
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 7:49amAmen bother.
Report this comment
poorrichard09
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 8:22amSecond that Amen and thank you.
Report this comment
VaARNG_Guardsman
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 8:38amThen how did he die? Suicide?
Report this comment
Gonzo
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 8:44amWow, you’re a real Biblical scholar Vaarng.
Report this comment
YOURSENSEI
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:42amThis is what you must know:
O’Reilly isn’t going to write a word of this book. You know that, right? He hasn’t written written a word of any of these Killing things. It’s a sham. Hmm, mystery writer. Hmm. That sounds oddly familiar.
It is so.
Report this comment
ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 10:14amSo wait, God got tired of us continually killing animals as sacrifice……so he sent a human instead? And you accept that sacrifice?
Also, you accept this sacrifice on behalf of made up “sins?”
It’d be funny if it weren’t so pathetic.
Report this comment
DLV
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 10:45amMod- Your lack of biblical knowledge is so astounding, I’m getting stupider from just reading your responses. It’s been explained over a thousand times to you how you’re wrong.
Report this comment
ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 11:12amAgain, no it hasn’t.
When someone does try explaining it all I get are a few “well who are you to question God?” and “no you’re wrong” and “omg you don’t understand.”
I’ve even had people on here and in daily life tell me, “you don’t understand it because you’re not a Christian.” I had a friend tell me, “once you accept that the Bible is true, it makes sense.” Another told me, “The Bible hasn’t been proven untrue.”
This is childish thinking coming from grown adults and I’m supposed to respect that?
Modern day Christianity says that all humans are born worthy of an eternal torture(meaning we are born with original sin and destined for hell)
The punishment for un-repented sin is death
God sent his son Jesus(as himself) as a final sacrifice to die on our behalf(our sins) so that we shouldn’t perish but live eternally with God in Heaven.
Jesus was born of a virgin Mary, was crucified and rose 3 days later
My main point above was that “sin” hasn’t been proven to exist. When people talk about sin they just say “oh well you don’t believe in evil?” Unfortunately in Christian theology, sin just isn’t inherently evil acts.
Again, sin in Christian theology is simply being born. I inherited the original sin of Adam thus i am born worthy of going to hell.
Please, tell me again I’m wrong.
Just because I understand your nonsense, and reject it as nonsense doesn’t mean I don’t understand your nonsense.
Report this comment
DLV
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 11:48amMod- I explained the majority of how you’re wrong above. As for human sacrifice of Jesus… this is just silly on your part. I’m paraphrasing because I don’t know the exact verse and I don’t have a bible on hand, but Jesus said something like.
It’s my life and I can lay it down for who I wish. So no one “sacrificed” him. He gave himself up for humanity because he loves us. He insist that somehow this is a sacrifice which couldn’t be further from the truth. Even if you are an atheist you should understand this and not make the stupid argument of human sacrifice when no one forced Jesus up on the cross, he did himself. When humans are so narrow minded, satidfied in their filth, Jesus rose above and saved us. As I said above, if you respond be polite. None of this God condemned us for eternal torture from the start because it’s just wrong. It’s our fault and it always has been.
Report this comment
ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 12:40pm@DLV
Sorry but there was nothing coherent about your argument.
If I willingly sacrifice myself for someone else’s life, that’s NOT a sacrifice? Sorry but you’re just not making sense here.
You said, “None of this God condemned us for eternal torture from the start because it’s just wrong. It’s our fault and it always has been.”
This is your God we’re talking about here. Here is how I hear people describe your God.
He is “all loving.”
He is “all knowing”
He is “the beginning and the end.”
Your God “created everything.”
Again, this isn’t what I’m saying about your God. This is how I see other people describe him.
Therefore, your God, who is ALL KNOWING, created a system, in which he knew ahead of time that his creation(us) would disobey him and that it would destine us for an eternity of torture(hell) and that only by sending himself as his son, and getting crucified on a cross, could we be redeemed and avoid going to hell.
What’s worse is, your God created all of the rules. There is no “God rule” saying that a human had to be killed to free us from the punishment of “sin(again I argue that no such thing as sin exists but that’s a different argument)”
Your God could EASILY say, “just say you’re sorry and it’ll be okay.” Did he do that? No. He said, “now you have to accept a human death was necessary on your behalf.”
What’s worse is that modern Christianity says we are born with “original sin” meaning w
Report this comment
The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 1:13pmExcellent job MOD…
Report this comment
DLV
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 1:21pm“If I willingly sacrifice myself for someone else’s life, that’s NOT a sacrifice? Sorry but you’re just not making sense here.”
It is, but you’re bringing the negative connotation of human sacrifice. The picture I’m sure you’re trying to get everyone to think of is some unwilling person being dragged to an altar having his heart cut out for the appeasement of the gods while Jesus was willing to do it for his love of humanity. Big difference.
He is “all loving.”
He is “all knowing”
He is “the beginning and the end.”
Your God “created everything.”
Again, this isn’t what I’m saying about your God. This is how I see other people describe him.”
Yes. However, there is no universal consensus on this. I have spoken to plenty of Christians on this. Some believe due to our freewill he doesn’t know exactly what will happen every time and only suspected Adam and Eve would fall.
It’s also possible that he loved humans and wanted them around even if we screwed up. The fact is he loves humans and it’s not his fault if he sends sinners to hell, it;s ours because we are the ones who won’t repent. It’s also his only option since he can’t let sinners into his perfect paradise because he himself is a perfect being. I’ll admit this is your best argument because quite frankly many of the other offenses atheists put up, well they suck.
Bottomline- even if he knew he didn’t set up any barriers to keep us from succeeding Cont.
Report this comment
DLV
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 1:29pmWe screwed up his perfect paradise and in my opinion his knowing or not is irrelevant. He is always looking for humanity to repent so everyone can go to heaven because he is not preventing anyone from going to heaven. It’s really a choice you make that you want to go to hell. Honestly, though, it’s not that big of an issue if he knew or he didn’t exactly know precisely. I’ll find out one day. The thing we know is that humans screwed it up and we are the ones at fault if we reject him. THAT is the important part.
and that only by sending himself as his son, and getting crucified on a cross, could we be redeemed and avoid going to hell.”
See if you knew the bible you would know the person that would save humanity would have to be a PERFECT HUMAN which is why Jesus is the ONLY way to save us from ourselves. It’s not like God can wave a wand and make all our sins disappear. I know Christians like to say God is all powerful. I like to say he is nearly all powerful because there are a few things he physically cannot do. 1. would be just let us into heaven as sinners. another would be to make another equal to him. 3. Sin. For all intents and purposes he is omni-potent but the things he can’t do all involve going against his nature so it’s pretty much irrelevant.
“Your God could EASILY say, “just say you’re sorry and it’ll be okay.” Did he do that? No. He said, “now you have to accept a human death was necessary on your behalf.”
No he can’t. I just
Report this comment
ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 1:41pm@THE_DOORS_OF_PERCEPTION
I fully explain their view of the world. I am not wrong in understanding what they believe. I list what they believe in clear terms. I have had numerous people on here say that I am right about Christian theology.
They just object to the fact that I find it immoral. They can’t fathom that someone could fully understand their religion, and reject it and think of it as evil teaching.
They also object to their religion being described in very blunt terms.
They say they are fine “believing” in “original sin”. I then explain that it means you are fine with a “Belief” that all human beings are born worthy of going to hell and they object to it.
They tell me that their God is “all knowing.” I then show that their all knowing God created a system where billions of people are going to suffer ETERNALLY for not believing in him…and they object to it.
They say they honor Jesus and the sacrifice that he gave for our sins. I then say that by definition it makes Christianity a religion based around human sacrifice and they object and say “you don’t understand.”
No, I clearly understand it and that’s why I’m sickened when I see/hear other people condemning others for not “believing” it too. I have very religious friends and we love each other. We volunteered two weeks ago at a shelter. They know I’m an atheist and they don’t bother me with their nonsense.
Report this comment
ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 1:49pm@DLV
Again, your God created a system knowing BILLIONS of people will receive an eternal torture for not believing in him. I’m sorry my friend, but that isn’t “love.”
“He is always looking for humanity to repent so everyone can go to heaven because he is not preventing anyone from going to heaven. ”
Heck, some people will die not even hearing the “good news.” How can someone who doesn’t even know about God, expect to be saved?
Also, doesn’t your God come across as petty in that regard? It comes across to me as “Love me or go to hell.”
“See if you knew the bible you would know the person that would save humanity would have to be a PERFECT HUMAN which is why Jesus is the ONLY way to save us from ourselves. It’s not like God can wave a wand and make all our sins disappear. I know Christians like to say God is all powerful. I like to say he is nearly all powerful because there are a few things he physically cannot do. ”
Your God created EVERYTHING. He can do ANYTHING. That’s what I hear almost everyone say. Now you may be different in your interpretation of the Bible in that regards, but by what right do you make that claim?
You have someone who “believes” God is all powerful.
You believe that God is nearly all powerful.
You both appeal to the divinity and infallibility of the Bible for your stance.
You both can’t be right. Which one is the heretic and by what right can the other person claim the other is the heretic?
Report this comment
ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 2:15pm@DLV
It really comes down to our different viewpoints. From what I can gather, I think this would correctly define your stance.
Everything that is good is because of God and
Everything that is bad is because we screwed up.
Would that be about right?
If so, I’m not as masochistic as other people so maybe I expect some accountability from a supernatural being, one who created EVERYTHING.
So there we have it. I completely understand what you believe and why you believe it. I have just come to a different conclusion. That being said, can you please stop saying I’m “wrong” or “don’t understand”?
I’m clearly not wrong, I have just come to a different conclusion.
As you said, if you are right, I’ll find out after I’m dead in which your God determines that a just punishment for not “believing” in him is an ETERNITY of hell for the 70-100 years of rejection(assuming I live that long).
Seems a bit cruel and unusual but then again, your God is God and can do whatever he wants without question.
Report this comment
VaARNG_Guardsman
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 2:22pmActually Gonzo, I do have a postgraduate degree in Divinity, do you?
Report this comment
The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 3:06pm@MOD
I completely understand…I’m still pretty young but for most of my life I was a practicing christian. So I know exactly what they believe because I believed it too, for a very long time. Of course to these people I wasn’t a “real christian”…but as Dan Barker has said “If i wasn’t a true believer then nobody is”.
Report this comment
theotherberean
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 3:30pmMOD yes you do twist Christian theology to make it appear hideous. What you say is mostly but the skin of a reason, stuffed with a lie. Straw men arguments.
People aren’t born “in” sin, we inherit sin nature and due to our own evil desires, all men will sin. God didn’t create evil people, He gave us a choice and we chose evil. Straw man.
What you describe is not love, but that’s what you call it and then assign it to God. However, offering His Only Begotten Son in exchange for forgiving those who willingly sin but merely repent, “is” love. Straw man.
The Bible says the Gospel will be preached to the entire world before Christ’s return, so that’s another straw man. They’re all straw men.
On and on. You’re a bully. Bully’s are cowards. You attempt to bastardize every doctrine, and only the unlearned Christians cannot see your garbage for the childish spewing that it is. Grow up a little. Is this crap all you are? You think you are embarrassing us but we think you’re just immature. Perhaps angry at God because He doesn’t fit into your box? You poor baby.
There sure are a lot of pathetic, whining crybabies with nothing better to do than demonstrate their ignorance and immaturity in a public forum. Why don’t you go hang out with the other little girls on the atheist sites? Not smart enough to hang?
Report this comment
ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 3:47pm@Berean
Great, here we go again.
First off, Christian teaching does a good enough job by itself coming off as hideous, it doesn’t need my help.
“People aren’t born “in” sin, we inherit sin nature and due to our own evil desires, all men will sin. God didn’t create evil people, He gave us a choice and we chose evil. Straw man.”
So let’s say that a 3 month old dies. Does it go to heaven or hell? If it goes to hell then it went to hell because it was born with original sin(surely we could agree that a 3 month old didn’t engage in sinful activity). If it goes to Heaven, then Jesus’s sacrifice wasn’t necessary and then John 14:6 isn’t relevant
“However, offering His Only Begotten Son in exchange for forgiving those who willingly sin but merely repent, ”
Your God created a system knowing that people would be born worthy of an eternal torture and then made it so a human sacrifice had to be made to avoid hell. There is no way to argue around this. Your God created this system, and created the rules for redemption. Any supernatural being that chooses human sacrifice isn’t “loving.”
“The Bible says the Gospel will be preached to the entire world before Christ’s return, so that’s another straw man.” Speaking of straw men. I said that there are people who die without receiving the “good news” not that the world will end before the gospels spread.
Try harder next time please.
Report this comment
theotherberean
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 4:20pmMOD Don’t you mean here we go still?
You guys think you’re embarrassing us but we are embarrassed for YOU. Are you just ignorant or really that stupid?
Point by point:
Bald assertion.
The Bible says all men fall short of the glory of God, but God is pure justice and neither an unborn child nor an aborted baby has had the opportunity to sin, and therefore is not subject to the judgment reserved for sinners.
You make God the author of evil and that is only true in your world view.
If people who never hear the gospel are saved, it is logical that we should make sure no one ever hears the gospel. All people are accountable to God, whether or not they hear the Gospel. God has clearly revealed Himself in nature (Romans 1:20) and in the hearts of people (Ecclesiastes 3:11).
This is BASIC stuff. You could have found this all out with a few minutes and a simple search.
Of course, then you wouldn’t have anything to cry about. Why don’t you call your mommy next time your diapers need changing?
Report this comment
ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 4:58pm@THEOTHERBEREAN
“The Bible says all men fall short of the glory of God, but God is pure justice and neither an unborn child nor an aborted baby has had the opportunity to sin, and therefore is not subject to the judgment reserved for sinners.”
Okay, let me ask you this. Is this your response to my question? I really need to know this. This is the second time you are providing an answer…….to a question I didn’t ask.
My question, pure and simple was, “So let’s say that a 3 month old dies. Does it go to heaven or hell?” A 3 month old has been born, thus has the original sin passed down from Adam to him/her….yet surely the 3 month old hasn’t “sinned” in its own right. Do you believe that baby goes to Heaven or Hell? If you believe in an original sin, and that baby goes to Heaven….then Jesus’s sacrifice wasn’t necessary for it. If it goes to hell, then your God is an evil tyrant.
A 3 month is is neither an “unborn child” or an “aborted baby.”
“God has clearly revealed Himself in nature (Romans 1:20) and in the hearts of people (Ecclesiastes 3:11).” Exactly my point! There ARE people WHO have died WITHOUT hearing the GOOD NEWS and your God still sends them to hell FOREVER.
That’s NOT love.
Yes, this is basic stuff and I’m saying I disagree with it and think it’s immoral.
You make God the author of good and that is only true in your world view.
There, I turned it back on you.
Report this comment
DLV
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 5:09pmAgain, your God created a system knowing BILLIONS of people will receive an eternal torture for not believing in him. I’m sorry my friend, but that isn’t “love.”
Again, this is inconsistent with Christian beliefs. If you want your close minded view of God be my guest but it isn’t right. So how is creating a perfect system with humans doing whatever they please except don’t eat the fruit and then we screw up… how is that God’s fault. It seems to me that humans sent themselves to hell if you actually look at it carefully. The test was this reward: Live with God forever in paradise. Failure: Death and it was overwhelmingly in our favor. IF you fail a test in school you don’t blame the teacher, you blame yourself. You my friend are blaming the teacher when it’s your fault, my fault everyone’s fault. Again I pose the question from above, why should I not exist and be with God in paradise because humanity has rejected God and hardened their hearts to him? You’re all about fairness right? How is not existing fair to me and everyone else who believes? Because that is the alternative. He created humans in a perfect world and a test overwhelmingly in our favor and we could not handle it, he gave us a way out (Jesus, when he didn’t need to do anything) and we still can’t handle it. And you really have the gaul to sit their and blame God. Good grief, I am in utter shock. Cont.
Report this comment
DLV
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 5:17pmHow can someone who doesn’t even know about God, expect to be saved? ”
The bible never addresses this directly, but I want to think God does not operate that way, and or he would make sure that those that never hear would find a way to him. The ultimate sin is rejecting Jesus, if people never get that chance, then the only thing he has to go on is their sin. Again, I’m not sure about this but I generally don’t deal in serious hypothetical and for the purposes of this debate it’s irrelevant.
Also, doesn’t your God come across as petty in that regard? It comes across to me as “Love me or go to hell.”
Again, addressed this already, it’s not love me or go to hell. It’s because we aren’t perfect. Since God is the perfect allowing anything less into heaven would be a compromise to his character. But because of his magnificent love, those wh osee this love him back anyway.
“Your God created EVERYTHING. He can do ANYTHING. ”
Everything except compromise his character. Any theologian will tell you this.
. Now you may be different in your interpretation of the Bible in that regards, but by what right do you make that claim? ”
The fact that multiple times in the bible, God says he will not compromise his character his character and sin. If Christians say God’s omnipotence extends to him compromising his character they are sorely mistaken.
Cont.
Report this comment
ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 5:23pm@DLV
“Again, this is inconsistent with Christian beliefs….” Um yes it is. If you argue your God is all knowing, it’s the main point of Christian belief. God is eternal, he’s the alpha and Omega, beginning and end, he is unchanging. Again, these are the ways that people of your faith describe your God. These are not my descriptions.
“….If you want your close minded view of God be my guest but it isn’t right. So how is creating a perfect system with humans doing whatever they please except don’t eat the fruit and then we screw up… how is that God’s fault.”
Again, your God knew we would fail that test. I’m going to keep saying that until you understand that.
Although to be fair, you already seem to understand it, you just think….as you said above, that it’s “not relevant” that God created us knowing we would fail the test.
“How is not existing fair to me and everyone else who believes?” Your God could have simply said, “wow I created a messed up system knowing that you would fail. My fault, you’re forgiven.” Did he do that in your book? No! Your “all loving” “all knowing” “all merciful” God said….well you two people messed up so…….THE REST OF YOUR KIND IS DOOMED FOR AN ETERNITY UNLESS THEY WORSHIP ME!
Again, you come across as, “Everything good is because of God and everything bad is because we messed up.” I don’t think as lowly about mankind as you do.
Report this comment
DLV
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 5:24pmYou both can’t be right. Which one is the heretic and by what right can the other person claim the other is the heretic?”
No one is the heretic. It’s only a slight misunderstanding. Ask your Christian friends this question. Will God compromise his holiness? 99% of the time it will be an astounding NO! That’s all I meant by nearly all powerful. You misunderstood me, moving on.
Everything that is good is because of God and
Everything that is bad is because we screwed up.
Would that be about right?”
Yes, more or less. If God did something wrong, unfair or whatever, I would let you know my opinion on that.
So there we have it. I completely understand what you believe and why you believe it. I have just come to a different conclusion. That being said, can you please stop saying I’m “wrong” or “don’t understand”?”
Lol, I am trying to help you out here. Really I am. Some people ignorantly come to a different conclusion because A) They don’t have info B) They do but they jsut don’t care nad are blinded by their own principles. Again, you claim to use Christian arguments against us but then form opinions of things we don’t say. I never said, God enjoys punishing humanity. IN FACT in the bible he says he will mourn those he must reject from heaven. He hates punishing humanity he does. Believe me, Mod, Jesus loves you and even for those that don’t love him back he still loves them. Cont.
Report this comment
theotherberean
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 5:26pmDOORS it’s not just a matter of “wanting” to believe. You must have faith. There is no way you could have truly come to the knowledge of the truth, without still being a believer. What changed your mind?
Report this comment
theotherberean
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 5:28pmMOD 3 yr old included with aborted and/or unborn babies. Perhaps if you paid as close attention to detail when studying the Bible you wouldn’t be so ignorant of what it teaches.
I believe the Bible teaches that we all have “sin nature” – the desire for sin rather than good, but we are all responsible for our own sin.
Again, for those whose memories are challenged by booze or drugs, if not hearing the Gospel assured one of salvation, then we should not share the Gospel with anyone. And again, if anyone goes to hell is is because they willfully rejected the Gospel message and ultimately Jesus Christ. And again, that is justice. Love is John 3:16. Please pay attention in the future. Perhaps your short memory span is the problem. Have you considered taking a course?
You can disagree if you like but the point is this stuff can be found by just about any idiot with a simple search engine. Just about, I guess, but evidently not all.
No, not my world view, the Bible says God is good, and we can see by example that He is.
Report this comment
ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 5:28pm@DLV
It’s not a hypothetical to ask what happens to people who die without knowing about Jesus’s sacrifice.
As Berean said, “it doesn’t matter.”
Look, either Jesus is the only way to heaven or he isn’t. Therefore anybody who doesn’t accept Jesus goes to hell.
You can then put your rose colored glasses on and say “I hope they find a way” and once again, paint God in the positive light by saying, “I trust in God” but then you shouldn’t admonish me when I look at opposite side and say “well it’s likely that your loving God sent that person to hell.”
You can then say, “well God doesn’t send us, we send ourselves.”
Fact is, your God created hell. Your God created the rules for getting into heaven or getting sent to hell. Based on the population, and all of the different religious myths out there, if the Christian faith is the correct, there will be tons more people in hell then in heaven.
If your okay worshiping a God who created such a system, that’s fine. But again, don’t come at me with this, “you’re wrong” mumbo jumbo.
Report this comment
DLV
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 5:31pmThe way you phrase it. IT seems like you like to say God gets his jollies off of sending people to hell which he doesn’t.
your God determines that a just punishment for not “believing” in him is an ETERNITY of hell for the 70-100 years of rejection(assuming I live that long).”
I realize this seems extreme, I’ve thought about it too. But here is the thing, it’s not so much what you did in this life, it’s that God is SO perfect, So good, So holy, that even the slightest trace of wickedness cannot be in his sight so he must separate himself from it. You also have an erronous view of hell. All hell is Mod get ready for it, is seperation from God. It’s not like there is a giant furnace where God has pain and suffering. It’s this, that being away from God is all of those things. So in fact, when atheists “go to hell” they will get EXACTLY what they wished for. No God. The wailing and gnashing of teeth, is just no God. It’s the ultimate paradise for atheists because there is no God. But since god= no suffering, no pain, no crying etc, being away from entails the opposite of that. So what you rail against Mod, is what you wish for except that all the stuff you take for granted right, now aka, not extreme pain and what not, is just you still in God’s presence… somewhat. In Hell, there will not be one iota of God in there. Not one little bit. Hell is the exact opposite of God. God IS LOVE Hell is Hatred God Is Joy Hell is pain, and on and on and on.
Report this comment
theotherberean
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 5:38pm“As Berean said, “it doesn’t matter.”
Where did I say that?
Report this comment
DLV
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 5:46pmAgain, your God knew we would fail that test. I’m going to keep saying that until you understand that.
I do understand that. But that doesn’t mean humanity should not be created because of it. He created humans to be with him if we screw up we pay the price. It’s really simple. So it’s actually quite fair.
“wow I created a messed up system knowing that you would fail. My fault, you’re forgiven.”
HE CAN’T DO THAT MOD! That’s cheating! Teachers don’t just do this on tests “Wow you all failed! You know what! Screw it! As for everyone!” He made a fair test in which we failed. Whether he knew or not beforehand is not relevant, it’s the action the that counts. So when sin is created God puts it away. Hell. It’s really simple and you’re making complicated. Not to mention it isn’t his fault, he created a fair test with no barriers against obeying him. But here is the thing, he made us in his image, God has freewill, we have freewill, even Angels freewill. Satan revolted! He was an Angel. Apparently, he doesn’t make creatures without freewill, so to make us drones that do whatever he says would go against his nature. He wants us to love him because we want to not because he forces us to. That’s why it’s a choice to choose Christ or not.
“THE REST OF YOUR KIND IS DOOMED FOR AN ETERNITY UNLESS THEY WORSHIP ME!”
We doomed ourselves with disobedience, we have freewill, we have choices, we made our bed we lie in it. Those are the rules.
Report this comment
DLV
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 5:54pmLook, either Jesus is the only way to heaven or he isn’t. Therefore anybody who doesn’t accept Jesus goes to hell.
You can then put your rose colored glasses on and say “I hope they find a way” and once again, paint God in the positive light by saying, “I trust in God” but then you shouldn’t admonish me when I look at opposite side and say “well it’s likely that your loving God sent that person to hell.”
It’s possible, but the fact is we are speculating. I don’t deal in speculations, I go with what I know which is why I suggest we move on from this point since I can’t give you a straight answer. God is full of many mysteries which is why the bible only scratches the surface with his character.
“Based on the population, and all of the different religious myths out there, if the Christian faith is the correct, there will be tons more people in hell then in heaven.”
Based off if they reject Christ then Yes. If they never heard of him, can’t say. Only speculation.
Here read this. This might give you some more answers than I can on this topic.
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/neverheard.html
“But again, don’t come at me with this, “you’re wrong” mumbo jumbo.”
I only said that because you don’t know fully what’s being stated. You need to have an open mind and not just be quick to condemn God at every turn.
Report this comment
DLV
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 5:56pmMod- Here is some clarity for those that don’t know question.
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.
IT seems like it will go off of conscience since God has written the law in our hearts.
Report this comment
ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 5:58pm@Berean
” All people are accountable to God, whether or not they hear the Gospel. God has clearly revealed Himself in nature (Romans 1:20) and in the hearts of people (Ecclesiastes 3:11).”
That is you saying, “it doesn’t matter whether or not they’ve received the message.”
God as you said, “is revealed in nature” so whether or not they actually learned about your God, or your Bible, they are bound by it and will go to hell accordingly.
You just proved my entire point. Jesus isn’t the only way to “salvation”. If 3 year olds can go to Heaven without knowing about Jesus, then he isn’t necessary for salvation. Congratulations, you just made your savior irrelevant!
“You can disagree if you like but the point is this stuff can be found by just about any idiot with a simple search engine. Just about, I guess, but evidently not all.”
I know ALL of these points and I’m saying they are idiotic and childish “beliefs” and when you apply even an ounce of rational thinking, it is ILLOGICAL and just feel good nonsense.
@DLV
“All hell is Mod get ready for it, is seperation from God. It’s not like there is a giant furnace where God has pain and suffering. It’s this, that being away from God is all of those things.”
I can guarantee you that the majority of Christians on here and in America don’t agree with that assessment. Again, you appeal to your interpretation of the Bible, but what makes it more correct then someone else’s?
Report this comment
DLV
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 6:04pmMod- Also redoing or just forgiving everyone who sinned, is not part of the test, it is compromising his character which we have already addressed. That’s the issue by nature and his holiness God can’t just accept us into heaven as we are. That would be compromising his character of perfection. If God just said “Screw it! Everyone gets to heaven! You’re forgiven!” without Jesus then he would be compromising his character by letting sin into heaven. I hope you’ve gained some understanding here. You’re a nice debator but I want you to understand fully what Christianity is even if you don’t accept it. It will help when you address Christians in the future.
Report this comment
ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 6:07pm@DLV
“It’s possible, but the fact is we are speculating. I don’t deal in speculations, I go with what I know which is why I suggest we move on from this point since I can’t give you a straight answer. God is full of many mysteries which is why the bible only scratches the surface with his character.”
Whoa whoa whoa
Suddenly, the “all knowing” “all powerful” “all loving” God is “mysterious” and the Bible, which is supposed to be his revealed wisdom to us a communication to mankind, his word is suddenly only “scratching the surface of his character.”
Why would an loving God, who wants us to love him, be so incomplete in his word that it then has to be interpreted and imagined by reverends, pastors, ministers and then spread to the masses?
Surely an all loving God would want to give us coherent and enough information in order to understand it. Unless that is, your God values “faith” and “belief” over reason and rationality.
People of that time supposedly got demonstrable miracles. Blind men seeing, lepurs cured, people rising from the dead and nowadays we’re just supposed to “believe” and have “faith” and claim things are miracles when they really aren’t.
You don’t accept a literal hell? It actually has me respecting you more then. I could never worship, or understand someone who worships a supernatural being that would create a system in which billions of people would be tortured FOREVER for not “believing” in it.
Report this comment
DLV
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 6:19pmMod- I’d be willing to bet I’m right at the hell part of christian belief. At it’s core that’s all it is. The extra fire imagery in the bible is to describe how bad of a place it really is. But at its essence, it is seperation from God.
Report this comment
ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 6:28pm@DLV
“You’re a nice debator but I want you to understand fully what Christianity is even if you don’t accept it. It will help when you address Christians in the future.”
” If God just said “Screw it! Everyone gets to heaven! You’re forgiven!” without Jesus then he would be compromising his character by letting sin into heaven.”
No, I fully understand what Christianity is but you are glossing over an important argument(or at least I think it’s important).
There is nothing about God that says he couldn’t find some other way to “forgive” us our sins.
The God of the old testament required animal sacrifices, the blood from animals as a sacrifice to forgive transgressions. I think in the OT it even says that God loves the smell of blood or “burnt offerings”. How did he handle this final sacrifice in the new testament? By sending himself as a human as a sacrifice.
Again, your God is supposedly God. He can do whatever he wants. He sets the rules for what he needed to forgive “sins”. There is no God rule book that says, “okay look, in order to forgive everyone of their sins, you must send yourself as a human to be crucified and this will redeem everyone.”
He could have chosen literally ANY other method but he instead chose the act of the killing of a human. Any supernatural being that would choose that method is either illogical, or evil.
There, that’s my point. I understand Christianity and think it’s illogical.
Report this comment
DLV
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 6:31pmMod- Don’t misunderstand me. All I meant by many mysteries is that the bible has everything that is relevant to us. But what I meant by all that was for instance, I wouldn’t be surprised if God created sentient beings in a different universe. That’s all I meant. For us, the bible is complete. Nothing needs to be added.
“You don’t accept a literal hell?”
No I do, it’s just not the hell that everyone thinks of. I don’t think of a pit of fire although there could be I don’t know. I think of seperation from God and since God embodies all the qualities of good and holy. Hell will just be the exact opposite the absence of him. 2nd Thessalonians describes being “shut out from the presence of the Lord.” That’s what I mean. The other parts of the bible just describe as a really awful place, but at its core, it’s just an absence from God.
Report this comment
DLV
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 6:55pmThere is nothing about God that says he couldn’t find some other way to “forgive” us our sins.”
Unfortunately, there is not especially considering the fact that many do not want to be forgiven like you. Keep in mind to if there was another way, why would God put himself in human form go through all the pain and suffering of being a human and die a gruesome death if there was another simpler way? That pretty much destroys the argument. Even if God were evil, he would not waste his time hurting himself to save a race he does not care about.
As for animal sacrifices, well since God did not want human sacrifices, animals were a notch below. They had to be killed because quite simply God’s nature punishes sin, so when you transfer your sins to an innocent animal, it is the way of destroying sin. Jesus was the last sacrifice which is why we don’t need to anymore. He covers everyone. He was human and perfect which is why it needed to be done to save humanity.
There is no God rule book that says, “okay look, in order to forgive everyone of their sins, you must send yourself as a human to be crucified and this will redeem everyone.”
Mod he sets the rules for himself so he needs to follow them which is why he can’t just absolve everyone or else he would be a hypocrite and compromising his character. On one hand he hates sin and must destroy it but on the other everytime someone sins he will just so whoops oh well you’re forgiven. Doesn’t work.
Report this comment
DLV
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 6:56pmHe could have chosen literally ANY other method but he instead chose the act of the killing of a human. Any supernatural being that would choose that method is either illogical, or evil.”
You’re own argument kills it ironically enough. No evil or selfish God would send himself to save a race he doesn’t care about. Let’s move on then because this part is just silly.
Report this comment
DLV
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 7:04pmI admit you know a few things about christianity but you still need to get better. When you make ignorant statements about Jesus being a human sacrifice with all the negative connotations, that shows me you’re either ignorant or you like to antagonize Christians. Both aren’t good.
But you know what? I’ll still pray for you. Debating people like you only challenges me to look harder at my faith and in that grow stronger. It’s like being a runner. If you run once for a marathon and then sit on your but and do nothing and expect to still be a great runner, you’re kidding yourself. You always need to push yourself and I do thank you for doing that. Christianity is full of tough questions and things that challenge your faith so that God can test your obedience to him. Your challenges helped, so thank you for making me stronger. But what always makes sense to me is Jesus’ love for humanity and what he did for us on earth. I would have truly loved to meet him.
Report this comment
DLV
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 7:12pmI do want to take back one mistake I made however. I said that Hell is a seperation from God, it is but in a different sense. God is omnipresent so obviously this extends to hell as well. The only difference is the part of him in hell will be the wrath part. The part you won’t see which marks the separation is what God is normally, a supreme being who likes to have companionship with his creations. It’s his creations who hated and rejected him that is the reason why he wants to save us.
I remember your main argument was why did he make the test knowing we would fail?
I think this theory makes a lot of sense. dwell on it. We established the fact that God doesn’t make robot creatures, he makes beings with freewill even Angels. As such he wanted to have companionship with humans but there was not a way to make them without humans screwing it up. So the best possibility was that he always reach out to humans so they could take his hand and ask for forgiveness. And if you’re response is well then he should not have made us at all if that is the case, then I would go back to my original question which is why should I not exist because people want to reject God? I think this is the question worth asking to your argument because we’ve established God cannot break his own rules and just continually forgive everyone with no change. Do you see what I mean Mod? I hope I’m getting through here. I want sincere, honest, curious questions. I’m trying to help.
Report this comment
ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 7:23pm@DLV
“Keep in mind to if there was another way, why would God put himself in human form go through all the pain and suffering of being a human and die a gruesome death if there was another simpler way? That pretty much destroys the argument.”
No, it makes my argument for me. Your God is all powerful and writes the rules. Therefore your god is an idiot for not finding another way, or is evil for choosing that way.
“As for animal sacrifices, well since God did not want human sacrifices, animals were a notch below.”
But he did want human sacrifice! He set up a system knowing that a human sacrifice is necessary. Please see this! I can’t state it anymore clearly.
“On one hand he hates sin and must destroy it but on the other everytime someone sins he will just so whoops oh well you’re forgiven. Doesn’t work.”
Again, why does sin have to be destroyed by a human sacrifice? Your God created this system, surely he can do WHATEVER he pleases.
Until you understand this, we will get nowhere.
Report this comment
Greenwood
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:28pmOTHER…………..The Bible says all men fall short of the glory of God, but God is pure justice and neither an unborn child nor an aborted baby has had the opportunity to sin, and therefore is not subject to the judgment reserved for sinners.
Romans 5:12 That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned.
Did the babies die? Death ruled as king.
Report this comment
Greenwood
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:48pm@MOD……”“As for animal sacrifices, well since God did not want human sacrifices, animals were a notch below.”
But he did want human sacrifice! He set up a system knowing that a human sacrifice is necessary.
The animal sacrifices were a forshadow of the ransom sacrifice of Jesus.It was the first prophecy in the Bible. Genesis 3:15 ……….He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel.”
Satan will be bruised in the head ( a death blow) and Jesus will be bruised in the heel. ( God was to resurrect him back to life) Satan will be destroyed and Jesus will rule as king.
The ransom was because Adam was created perfect so there was a need for an equal or greater ransom. Only Jesus could fill that role because all mankind was now imperfect.
Report this comment
ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 10:19pm@GREENWOOD
Exactly, the God of the Bible is pro human sacrifice. Thank you for agreeing with me.
Report this comment
DLV
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 2:45amNo, it makes my argument for me. Your God is all powerful and writes the rules. Therefore your god is an idiot for not finding another way, or is evil for choosing that way.”
Nyahahahahahaha that was an awesome joke. I know you can’t be serious because you didn’t address my point. Even the biggest idiot on earth or the most evil man would not put himself through pain and suffering. You never addressed this. If there was another why would God do what he did Mod? Why? Why? Why?
Yes God is all powerful and writes the rules. His rules state sin must be destroyed. His rules also state that he cannot just let sin exist without judging it. Guess what? Even when God showed us mercy Jesus, he still had to judge sin that was none negotiable. All we did was transfer it to Jesus just like animal sacrifices. So he made humanity loved us, we rejected him, and then gave us a second chance with Christ. Even if he did know, that should not stop people who love him from existing because others have hardened hearts and rejected him. It’s so obvious. I don’t understand how you come to the conclusion you are coming to. It’s like watching a video tape of a black man robbing a store and then when you watch it, you say that man was not robbing the store, he bought from the store. Oh yeah and he was white. Everyone just thinks…. Um what? Cont.
Report this comment
DLV
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 2:52amSee this is a sign that you have hardened yourself and are not willing to see things straight even though I’ve explained to you how God can still be just and create humanity even while knowing what he did. He still have not answered my points on those.
“But he did want human sacrifice! He set up a system knowing that a human sacrifice is necessary. Please see this! I can’t state it anymore clearly.”
One human sacrifice. ONE! And it’s not evil if someone decides to lay down their life for others. In all seriousness human sacrifices happen nearly everyday and most are good. The military, one marine sacrifices himself to save another, some come out alive, some don’t. The dad who sacrificed himself to save his daughter. It was a story the other day here. Human sacrifice. I see it alright Mod. What I don’t see is how it’s evil. You’re the one painting a negative picture for the ultimate good. That’s when you know you have things screwed up.
Again, why does sin have to be destroyed by a human sacrifice?”
I’ve answered this but I’ll do it again if you wish. It had to be a PERFECT HUMAN. Perfect because transferring sin to sin doesn’t work. How are we supposed to gain entrance into heaven without perfection? That’s why it needed to be perfect so we could trade our sin with Christ’s perfection. Human because Adam was human and he sinned and we are his descendents. Don’t ask me again, there is your answer. Cont.
Report this comment
DLV
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 3:07amYour God created this system, surely he can do WHATEVER he pleases. ”
He created system Mod I agree with you. But he can’t change it to fit our desires because IT COMPROMISES HIS CHARACTER. As I said before there are things God can’t do and they all fall under the compromising character umbrella. He can’t just give sinful people tickets to heaven because it COMPROMISES HIS CHARACTER! Until you understand this we will get nowhere. Tell me you understand. So then if you ask well then why did he create us in the first knowing we fail? Well then we are back to square one and again it begs the question why should those who would follow him suffer the punishment of non-existence because humanity as a whole rejects him? We have free will Mod but there are consequences to our actions. God creates free beings but there is always a right and wrong choice. That;s where we are at now. Tell me you understand.
Here is something that might help you understnad of why God created us knowing we would fail.
http://www.gotquestions.org/if-God-knew.html
Mod before you read, this keep an open mind and do not be quick to judge God. The point is he is glorious beyond our comprehension and what might look like arrogance really is not. In the end, he used his plan with our free will. But read it. It will help.
Report this comment
The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 8:33am@MOD
Again, awesome job. All I hope is that somenoe like me about 5 years ago reads this debate and realizes how ridiculous this bronze age thinking is…in 2013!!! Sad, I have to say that…
Report this comment
ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 25, 2013 at 2:03am@DLV
“One human sacrifice. ONE! And it’s not evil if someone decides to lay down their life for others.”
HHAHAHAHA. Did you seriously just write that?
@Doors
DLV just doesn’t seem to get it. I keep saying that God writes the rules and can “destroy sin” anyway he wants. There is no rule that it has to be through a human sacrifice of a “perfect human” and that any God that sets up a system knowing that is either idiotic or evil.
How do they respond to this logic? By saying, “ONE SACRIFICE! ONLY ONE!”
Again, please stop saying that I don’t understand Christianity or that I’m “missing” something and I could argue better if “only I understood it more.”
One thing should be completely clear. I understand Christianity down to it’s very core and I just determine that if it is true(which I don’t think it is), that it is either
A) Silly
OR
B) Sickening
and that it shouldn’t be worshiped.
Report this comment
jakartaman
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 7:36amO’Reilly has become a middle of the road commentator.
He has lost his backbone – He try’s very hard not to offend any major or political lighting rods.
He is becoming very deferential.
That said, he does a good job on his books.
I also read the bible extensively – old and new testament. I also read many other books/articles related to Jesus. You see I have a brain and seek Godly Knowledge with my God given Holy Spirit discernment.
Report this comment
Gonzo
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 7:28amMurder suggest His life was taken, His life was given.
Report this comment
Gonzo
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 7:32amsuggests
Report this comment
tradcatholicgirl
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 7:48amWhen reading the article, that was also my thought. Why is he equating the murder of human beings with the sacrifice made by Jesus?
Report this comment
The-Monk
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 7:52amMorning Gonzo. : )
Report this comment
The-Monk
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 8:13amHi Tradcatholicgirl,
I saw that also and came to the conclusion that his “Killing” series of books started out as the “deaths and lives” of famous people and not the killing itself.
When they decided to do the most famous person, Jesus, they kept with the series title. I don’t really think Bill is focusing on “killing” in any of these books. I could be wrong but that’s my IMHO.
Report this comment
Gonzo
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 8:29amI was referring to The Blaze’s title for the article Monk. He was killed, no argument there.
Report this comment
The-Monk
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 8:39amHi Gonzo,
Yes, “murder” was the wrong word to use in the headline.
Report this comment
The-Monk
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 8:47amHi Gonzo,
I’ll see if I can get “murder” changed to “death”…. OK?
Report this comment
Gonzo
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 8:51amLeave it Monk. I’m just surprised somebody writing stories on religion would use that term. Maybe Hallowell isn’t familiar with Christianity?
Report this comment
The-Monk
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:00amHi Gonzo,
I agree. But, it’s too late. I already sent in a request to change it.
Not that it will do any good. : (
Report this comment
Eastinfection
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:18amEnduring torture and murder was the way Jesus sacrificed himself.
Without the murder, there is no sacrifice.
Christ allowing himself to be Crucified doesn’t negate the culpability of the men that killed him.
Report this comment
Gonzo
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:27amEast, if a mob had stoned him, I would agree. It was an execution sanctioned by the state.
Report this comment
YOURSENSEI
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:39amThis is what you must know:
Navel gazing theorists. There certainty. Only faith. That’s all you got. If that’s enough, great. As for the rest of it, turn it over to God. (Come on, folks, this is the easy stuff. For once, just once in your lives set aside your ego and the low-wattage sparks of your childish minds and accept the big picture.) Hey. Sarah Palin’s gonna be at CPAC! Woo hoo! now there’s a conservative I could really get into, know what I’m sayin’? Ka boing!
It is so.
Report this comment
Eastinfection
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:43amI know, Gonzo… but i think splitting hairs is unnecessary here.
In some parts of the world, your state-sanctioned execution is stoning from a mob.
Now if Jesus had been hit by a bus, i wouldn’t call it murder. But he allowed himself to be killed by men. That blood is on their hands whether or not some of them were just punching a clock & doing their job.
Report this comment
YOURSENSEI
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 9:58amMr or Ms THE MONK,
This is what you must know:
Hey, monkfish, when you gonna start posting as “Jesus”? Now THAT would be funny. Heck, you could do a series just like Bill. you could post as Jesus, and The Lord, Lamb of God, and Son of God, Emmanuel, maybe even take it up a notch and go with Yahweh or El Roi or El-Gibhor or just plain olf Heavenly Father.
Yeah, do your thing, honest and faithful Christian. Do your thing. But remember, Elohim is watching.
It is so.
Report this comment
YOURSENSEI
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 10:36amMr or Ms THE MONK,
This is what you must know:
Don’t be so coy. God hates a coward.
It is so.
Report this comment
YOURSENSEI
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 10:46amThis is what you must know:
I sure would feel a whole lot better if we could change “murder” to “death.” You know, historical accuracy and all. I’ll see if I can do that, NKay? Would that be good? Would I be doing good? Would I? Oh, would I? I so desperately want to be a do gooder. NKay? NKay, good.
It is so.
Report this comment
tradcatholicgirl
Posted on February 21, 2013 at 7:23amPompous windbag makes millions again. Personally, I’d rather read about the life of our Savior in the NT. As any real Catholic knows, O’Reilly is a CINO. And he wears his charitable Christian hairshirt publicly and constantly.
I can’t watch or read him anymore.
Report this comment