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‘Secret Code’ Used to Bury Bad News in the Bible Is Discovered and It’s Called the ‘Genesis Death Sandwich’

Feb. 22, 2013 8:44am Billy Hallowell

Researchers are claiming that the Bible’s book of “Genesis” may actually follow a distinct pattern — one that intentionally buries negative news. The literary device employed in the book is known today as “bracketing,” however, its newly-discovered presence in the first book of the Bible is its first known usage. Experts are calling the phenomenon the “Genesis Death Sandwich.”

While the Daily Mail calls this process of embedding negativity a “secret code,” the use of bracketing is apparently very common today. Employing this device in politics and written works, individuals will sandwich one theme in the middle of two mentions of a separate team (hence the term “sandwich”). To frame it in more understandable terms: Bad news is placed in the middle, with good news being placed at the beginning and end of a written work.

This way, readers or listeners are showered with positive themes, fed the negative and then, again, given the more favorable information. It’s a method of buffering unpalatable ideals by sticking them in the center.

Experts at Keele University, located in the United Kingdom, and Amridge University, located in the United States, found that this familiar technique was used when dealing with two themes in Genesis — life and death. While the latter subject is clustered into the middle of the book, the former is at the beginning and end of its scriptures.

Researchers Discover Secret Code Used to Bury Bad News in the Bible: Genesis Death Sandwich

Photo Credit: AP

Those exploring the issue are unsure if the rhetorical technique was intentional. But either way, it’s noteworthy. If, indeed, use of the technique was purposefully employed, it may have been done to soften the negativity surrounding death or to provide stark difference between the concepts of life and death in readers’ minds.

“This is a significant discovery for historians and theologians interested in the Old Testament, and shows that whoever wrote the version of the text that has been passed down to us was clearly employing this rhetorical structure,” explained Dr. Gordon Rugg of Keele University, the individual who developed the tool used to analyze the text.

This tool, called Search Visualizer, looks at texts through a grid. Each square present represents a word, with colored suares representing search terms. When the words “life” and “death” were searched in the King James Version of Genesis, the aforementioned sandwich pattern became evident, the Daily Mail reports. Here’s how the Search Visualizer web site explains the search process:

The core concept behind the SV is simple. You can tell a lot about a document just by seeing where your keywords occur within it. Imagine that you’re seeing a printout of the entire document with colour-coded highlighting on each of your keywords. The illustration show what happens when you do this for the text of Macbeth, with red highlighting for where the word “sleep” occurs and green highlighting where the word “witch” occurs. You can see at a glance that there’s an opening section with many mentions of “witch” and one mention of “sleep”. Then there’s a gap, with neither word mentioned, and after that, there’s a section which mirrors the opening section – many mentions of “sleep” and one mention of “witch”. With SV, you’re able to see this sort of pattern within a document the size of an entire Shakespeare play in just one image.

Below, see a graphical example of life versus death as presented in Genesis. The green boxes represent mentions of death and the red ones showcase themes pertaining to life. The “sandwich” theme is clearly visible based on the tool’s analysis:

Photo Credit: Search Visualizer

This software won’t only help to analyze Biblical texts, but it can also be applied to other books to look for equally-fascinating patterns. Additionally, it can be utilized in police investigations to help examine witness testimony in the search for common themes and statements.

(H/T: Daily Mail)

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Comments (441)

tolerence
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:41am
there is no code in the Bible,one verse in the Bible says God’s yes is a yes and God’s no means no,God doesnt talk in secrets he is a God of orginization,not God of kaos and confusion,the Bible is very understandable and pretty straight foward,after all how many ways can you define thou shall not kill? there isnt 200 different meanings of that commandment for 200 different denominations,theses folks who believe in codes (Davinci code),are committing a “grave sin” according to the book of Mathew,chp 5, and there are thoses who have an hatered based derranged obsession to attack everything Christians believe,with “crap” like The Judas gospel”,by the way the,word “Gospel” in the Bible means “Good News”,I cant think of mutch that comes from a Judas book and could be called good news,if the Bible had codes to be figured out first, before you went to Heaven(God Willing!),Could be bad news for those who have a learning disablility,…Come on ! Folks use your heads…CODES ARE BULL!!!…the Ten Commandments Rule!

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- Ollie123
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:15am
  good response
  
  Report this comment
- BrutalTruth
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:24am
  “Thou shalt not kill”, yet there are many examples of God killing. If you change your perception to “Thou shalt not UNRIGHTEOUSLY kill”, then it all fits.
  
  Doesn’t it say “For whosoever shed’s mans blood, shall have his blood shed by man”? How about “He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword”?
  
  How about the simple concept that God kills. Do you really think God is unrighteous or perhaps He operates under the “do as I say, not as I do” principle?
  
  Know God, know Truth.
  
  Report this comment
- Cavallo
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:27am
  Bible code is interesting science fiction. There are those that pursue such things as an actual study. Mostly they’re finding correlations to things that have already happened. Personally it seems more like staring at the static in an analog TV too long.. sooner or later you’re going to see weird things, and give it meaning that it doesn’t have.
  
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- SacredHonor1776
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:41am
  Actually the proper translation from the original text is “Thou shalt not murder”.
  
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- SLOWBIDEN
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:43am
  It is actually better translated ” thou shalt not murder”
  
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- bloomytoad
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:49am
  “Both read the Bible day and night, but thou read black where I read white” William Blake
  
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- gaillard1217
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:59am
  It’s amazing to me how much time people will invest putting down the Bible, Christians, why not just move on with your life? Why is criticizing Christianity so important to you? I know wh- it’s simply guilt. Deep in your hearts you are afraid God really exists- you are afraid you are going to spend eternity out of His presence.. So to prove to anyone who might think you have those feelings,you spout off in the harshest terms to cover your fear. It only takes reading the Bible to show how good God is- so rather than fighting so had against Him, give it a try. HE loves you- there is nnothing to fear.
  
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- cdennis
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:59am
  Excellent response!
  
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- D108
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 11:00am
  The commandment is “Thou shalt not murder”. The “kill” translation is too generic and should not be used IMHO. To “kill” is different than to “murder”.
  
  But I agree with you. God is logical and straighforward in his plan.
  
  Report this comment
- Nahash
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 11:05am
  As others noticed, there is difference between a murder and a kill.
  TOLERENCE, the Bible doesn’t offer Heaven. You got it confused as well.
  
  Report this comment
- Ojebuss
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 11:06am
  @ BrutalTruth
  The commandments were given to us form God. “Vengeance is mine” says the lord.
  
  Report this comment
- SquidVetOhio
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 11:18am
  I believe it was Jesus who said, “I have done nothing in secret”
  
  I have a hard enough time living by the Bible reading it straight forward. Let alone trying to understand some hidden “code”.
  
  Love God, Love your neighbor. Do right. The Bible in a nutshell.
  
  Report this comment
- hayesstephen
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 11:21am
  Tolerance. Please just relax and do not get excited. The Book also teaches us that all have sinned and that non will be saved except by God’s GRACE. Grave sin is do different than good old fashion everyday sin. With out Our Savior not one no not would would be saved. Please do not quibble about the little things cause big things are just over the horizon. I had a mature Christian man tell me he does not believe in the Resurrection but feels he is still a CHRISTIAN, another mature Christian man thinks there is nothing wrong with abortion!! You want something to get excited about? You only need to start talking to Liberal Christians, some of them believe that Yahweh and Allah are the same!!! now you have a reason for a nervous break down!!!
  
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- tzion
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 11:30am
  The commandment is “do not murder”, the Hebrew phrase being “lo tirtzach”. Had it meant “kill” it would read “lo taharog”.
  
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- antiprogressive
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 11:37am
  The very definition of faith surrounds the lack of proof.
  If there WERE proof, it wouldn’t be called faith, it would be called fact.
  Faith is what you WANT it to be.
  
  Stating that God could NOT do codes is a bit like saying he is not CAPABLE.
  I won’t go there. I put NO limits on His capabilities…
  
  Think about the way technology has evolved and ask if God KNEW this technology boom was going to happen.
  then,
  Assuming the answer to be YES, who is to say whether or not He can/would embed new layers inside the Bible that would only be uncovered USING this technology.
  Things which, WHEN uncovered, may add extra insight and meaning to His already apparent agenda.
  
  Thing of it as a new way of speaking to an increasingly techo-world…
  
  I won’t state He is INCAPABLE.
  Will you?
  
  Report this comment
- JRook
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 11:57am
  The only code I find hard to figure out is the contrast within individuals lives, what they say and what they do. Particularly self proclaimed devote christians, you know the true born agains. The contrast of course begins with the proclamation of their faith, their understanding of God’s word and or course their continued inference on how they are walking in the word. But when you contrast their words, actions and motivations against the “Golden Rule” you are confronted with a very telling reality. Selective reporting, misrepresentation of the truth, open disrespect and mocking are not consistent with the Golden Rule. And if you can’t follow that simple yet universally powerful rule, your faith is probably what it appears to be to most folks. A self serving activity that feeds a deep seated need to feel superior to other people(particularly those of other faiths), closer to God and in the extreme a member of God’s chosen people. There is no greater arrogance than to believe your interpretation or understanding of the higher power/energy in the universe (call it God) is any better than anyone else’s. Take the time to google the 10 Christ like figures and explain the similarities given they predate him?
  
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- BrutalTruth
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 12:40pm
  Ojebuss, yes that is correct. Your problem is ignorance of what is vengeance and what is not.
  
  Put it this way. If you kill someone in self-defense, it is righteous. If you kill someone because they did something you didn’t like, it is vengeance.
  
  Capital punishment by “society” in the form of government was designed by God to perform justified killing.
  
  You don’t have to like it, but reality doesn’t really care how you feel.
  
  Report this comment
- 2Amend
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 12:44pm
  You put it well.. no codes in the Bible! Sometimes it is best, however, to know what the ‘original’ language was [in this case Hebrew] that an examined text was written in, as well as its context. You mentioned the 5th commandment, of the Mosaic Law. The Bible translation you mentioned renders the original Hebrew word, “rat sach′”, as ‘kill’, when a more accurate translation of a deliberate, unlawful killing is ‘Murder’. The Mosaic Law for ancient Israel was much like Americas Constitution, and insight on the framers thoughts on a word [such as 'Militia', in Amend 2] is a must, because this same Hebrew word, ratsach’, is again used at Num 35:27, for a “lawful” execution, as Brutaltruth mentioned. But you made an excellent point! [Notice my sandwich, ; ) ]
  
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- hillbillyinny
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 12:45pm
  @ brutaltruth
  
  The word “kill” in the OT, if properly translated in most languages that have multiple understandings of types of death, would read CORRECTLY, “Do not murder.” in our English understanding of the principle.
  
  Report this comment
- JediKnight
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 1:02pm
  The only “codes” that might be there are the Hebrew language. For example, I believe that in the original Hebrew text, there are several species of trees listed at the beginning of Genesis. Also, the names of the geneaology in Genesis from Adam to Noah are transliterated and in the original text, those names literally refer to the Son of Man (Jesus) coming as a savior.
  
  Check out Chuck Missler’s commentary for some of this stuff. It’s truly fascinating, but none of it is hidden. Even this article isn’t suggesting things are hidden. It’s simply stating that the term Life appears often at the beginning and end of Genesis and the term death appears in the middle.
  
  And of course it was intentional. I like to call it a “Godincident”. Kind of like a coincidence, except that since the words came from God, they’re intentional.
  
  Report this comment
- ConserveChrist
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 1:19pm
  There are many secrets of God, and one off the top of my head God told John not to write in the book of revelation.
  
  10:3-4 “And cried with a loud voice, as [when] a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.” “And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not”.
  
  Also, no man knows the day or hour but the Father. And yet we are to see it coming like a sailor sees a storm or we know spring is on the way. Be watchful, and secrets will be revealed.
  
  Report this comment
- 2Amend
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 1:27pm
  @Antiprogressive: Actually the definition of “Faith” is sited at Hebrews 11:1, and it does not mean “blind” anything. What you are repeating is a common, but erroneous belief, and is only used by those who cannot give a reasonable, scriptural answer. EG: When Gods time-limit is up for man to Govern himself, and he places His Son as King over earth, it is prophesied that there will be no more hunger, sickness, or death. We can have “faith” that this is valid because witnesses wrote that he did these things, on a smaller scale, in the past.
  
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- BrutalTruth
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 1:38pm
  2AMEND,
  
  Well said.
  
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- tonypro
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 1:41pm
  Because of my inner conflict of killing someone vs. self defense, I’ve done a lot of research on the subject. I personally do not want to commit any act that could keep from from entering heavens gates.
  
  There is a such thing as a righteous killing, but even so, it is not looked on in favor from God. As David wanted to build a house of God, and was told not to because of the blood he had drawn, even though it was blood drawn by Gods direction. Listed below is an excerpt from a very informational website I found, included with the link if anyone wants to learn more.
  
  ………………………………………………
  
  We learn more about God’s view of bloodshed from David. David is a man who loved God and who was loved by God. God raised him up to defend Israel. God sent David to physically fight to defend Israel. When David killed Goliath and Philistines in battles, it was at God’s command. They were righteous killings. Now, with that understanding, let’s look at a few passages:
  
  1 Chronicles 28:3 “But God said to me, ‘You shall not build a house for My name, because you have been a man of war and have shed blood.’
  
  1 Chronicles 22:8 But the word of Jehovah came to me, saying, Thou hast shed blood abundantly, and hast made great wars: thou shalt not build a house unto my name, because thou hast shed much blood upon the earth in my sight.
  
  …………………………………………
  
  http://www.biblicalselfdefense.com/
  
  Report this comment
- jcldwl
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 1:50pm
  @ tolerance
  You are correct. The bible is straight forward. It’s the people following satan in this world that try to twist it. This is straight forward. John 14:6 Jesus said,”I am the way the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the father accept through me.” Any one who teaches differently is not teaching the bible. I find everything in the bible to be straight forward. Some people just can’t grasp the fact that they might have to change their lifestyle of sin to live a Christ like life. They want it the easy way so they follow satan who just says “Do what thou wilt.”
  
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- BadKarma375
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 2:27pm
  TonyPro, the reason David could not build the Temple for GOD, was because he sent Bathsheba’s husband to the front lines of battle to die so he could have her. The blood of her husband was on his hands and they were both also guilty of adultery. David was a man after GOD’s own heart, but he sinned against GOD and was denied the oppurtunity to glorify GOD with the Temple.
  
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- Elena2010
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 2:43pm
  What the secularists have just “discovered” is something that is plainly seen by eyes of faith. It’s even more plainly spelled out in Deuteronomy – blessing and curses.
  
  What Genesis is saying God has given us life, but we chose death, but God still wants to give us life. There is your sandwich.
  
  Take Joseph. He is given the gift of interpretation of dreams, foresight. He misuses it by rubbing it into the noses of the brothers. He’s sold into slavery (death to his father Jacob). He is matured in Egypt and uses the gift properly for life for both Egypt and Israel. Abraham and Jacob have a similar rhythms to their life-stories. Even Moses shares the same rhythm in his life – life spared, life taken and runaway, life restored and delivered. The rhythm repeats throughout the history of Judah and Israel. The entire book of Judges is all about life – death/slavery – life delivered. Duh…
  
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- Soulfire1975
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 2:43pm
  Because peoples sin still has to be accounted for.
  
  Also have to remember the fact that God also put in convents to never do certain things again like the flood.
  
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- Cservice
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 2:44pm
  Have you heard the good news?
  
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- Jim S
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 3:24pm
  ..I can find the Book of Revelations in Winnie the Pooh …just keep the software looking for whatever until I find what I am looking for ..change the search matrix and find something…this is religious numerology applied to letters…it’s not news, this is OLD news recycled with hew salesmen..of course The Blaze is fascinated for a bit more reasoned account of this scam:
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_code
  The primary method by which purportedly meaningful messages have been extracted is the Equidistant Letter Sequence (ELS). To obtain an ELS from a text, choose a starting point (in principle, any letter) and a skip number, also freely and possibly negative. Then, beginning at the starting point, select letters from the text at equal spacing as given by the skip number. For example, the bold letters in this sentence form an ELS. With a skip of −4, and ignoring the spaces and punctuation, the word safest is spelled out.
  
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- Jadedfate
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 3:25pm
  So, Thou Shall Not Kill and then ordering his people to go commit genocide in his name isn’t contradictory? You people are hilarious.
  
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- Cservice
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 3:25pm
  The only code that needs to be cracked in the bible is the one by actually opening the book and reading it. It is straight forward truth. There are laws and God gives us the laws, our gracious God knows that we can’t keep the laws, We acknowledge this and accept his gift of salvation through his son Jesus the Christ, after acknowledging that Jesus is Lord and repenting for breaking the laws. There is the Code in a nutshell. So if you want to do business with God he is willing.
  
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- Jadedfate
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 3:29pm
  God is Logical and straightforward? Seriously? His plan is ridiculous at best. I think this guy sums up how amazing God’s Plan is pretty well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvRPbsXBVBo&list=PL000D9CE05E47DA50
  
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- Quester55
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 3:30pm
  AS long as their is a SATAN, There will always be Someone Talking about some Lame code found in The Holy Bible.
  However, using this on The Muslim book of trash, and you’ll find page after page of it’s text pointing to Satan as being Allah, with a name change!
  
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- Cservice
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 4:17pm
  @Jaded…. God is a Savior not a tyrant…. check. I like the guys name on the you tube video cause it is about the only thing that makes sense after listening to that condescending dude.
  
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- BornToBeAmerican
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 4:30pm
  Just a bunch of nuts who cannot and will not read the words as written. There are a lot like that, but let’s be honest, no story here.
  
  Report this comment
- Kaoscontrol
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 5:02pm
  I still say “Genesis Death Sandwich.” Sounds like the name of a Christian metal band.
  
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- Wisdomseeker
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 5:14pm
  You may be correct providing the Bible wasn’t rewritten by the Romans or the Vatican for that matter. Listening to Jordan Maxwell there are a whole bunch of things brought into question……Theology one of them. Jordan Maxwell (Vatican Secrets) You Tube.
  
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- hallkbrdz
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 6:22pm
  The hardest thing for me to comprehend in the Bible is the concept of Government in Heaven on the new Earth. After the disaster we live with every day – it is a really difficult concept to understand, but I sure will be ready for it.
  
  Report this comment
- mlite9
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 6:32pm
  There is indeed a code in the ‘Bible’ – in the original Hebrew – and it has been studied for years. Equidistant letter sequences (ELS) were first found by rabbis more than 7 centuries ago. Many books and movies have been the result of this fascinating fact, and rabbis proficient in locating the sequences have made some fairly amazing revelations of past and perhaps future events and people.
  
  The only matter of faith in this is whether or not you believe that the canonical assemblage of books, and the translation into the forms of the Bible we now read, are accurate. That God ‘has no secrets’ is nonsense. Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised if most if not all of human history – names, events, etc. – is contained in the ELS form, and if displayed as a vast two-dimensional mosaic, would be an image of Jesus. Quite possibly the names of every person, ever. That’s how important He and we are to the Father. At least, as well as I know and understand Him. It’s fun to think of His enjoyment as He watches us trying to figure all this out, because inch by word His Son is revealed in us.
  
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- Thatsitivehadenough
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 7:23pm
  Yes. I’m surprised they covered this in The Blaze.
  
  Report this comment
- sillyfreshness
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:29pm
  The History Channel did a show on the Bible Code back like 10 years ago. This is nothing new.
  
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- yiddishlion
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:44pm
  @Brutal truth
  
  the literal term in Hebrew is “Thou shall not murder. ” Makes a HUGE difference when you actually know what you are talking about.
  
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- GotMullet
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 12:57am
  Yet, Christ spoke in parables. Sometimes God is silent until one is able to receive the truth through a discerning spirit.
  
  Mark 4: 11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
  
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- mikerupp1986
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 1:19am
  To all that read, so a machine figures up a pattern; that shows just how real our God is. Secondly, it’s by God’s grace that we are saved through faith plus nothing! We cannot merit favor with God. Jesus Christ is the creator God. God is 3 “triune” yet 1. God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. When God took on human flesh “the Son, Jesus Christ” he came to be the King of Israel not the gentiles. But when he died and was burried and rose again the third day he defeated Satan. All we have to do to obtain eternal life is believe Pauls Gospel 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 and he says it just like this “the gospel” and believing it for salvation. Believe in the heart and confess with the mouth. Keeping the ten commandments, being baptised by water, sacrificing any animal, temple worship, and any other “works” will not work for salvation. Christ completed the work that was required from prophecy so that we could rest, just by believing the gospel of our salvation we have peace with God, and when we pray we recieve the peace of God “not with God” but of God wich surpasses all understanding reguardless of how prayer is answered. Bad things happen, we are to watch for Christ return, to hope for it, pray for it; there is a crown to be had as a reward for wanting Christ return. I read my bible a lot. This is for you all to study yours http://www.lesfeldick.org. If you want to down talk the Christian, know that not all who say they are Christian are true believers. Enjoy :)
  
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- tharpdevenport
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 1:35am
  God did not personally write the text; the people who did, added these.
  
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- Elena2010
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 1:38am
  Jaded — those proscribed cultures were to be destroyed because they practiced child sacrifice. You will note that other cultures in the general neighborhood were not proscribed.
  
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- NogodNojesus
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 2:12am
  He is also a god of contradictions.
  
  Report this comment
- Obama_In_PeePee_By_Zee_Artist_Beck
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 3:41am
  “‘Secret Code’ Used to Bury Bad News in the Bible Is Discovered and It’s Called the ‘Genesis Death Sandwich’”
  
  18 … If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise.
  19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their own craftiness”;
  20 and again, “The LORD knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.”
  [1 Corinthians 3]
  
  Do you want to know what the Holy Bible says & WHY?
  
  “2 Billion to Die in World War 3″
  http://www.endtime.com/blog/2-billion-to-die-in-world-war-3/
  ” … ‘And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for TO SLAY THE THIRD PART OF MEN.’ (Revelation 9:15) … This time, there won’t be 8.2 million dead [WW1]. There won’t be 52 million dead [WW2]. This time 2 BILLION human beings will be annihilated from the face of the earth! … According to Revelation 9:14, the prophesied war will originate from the area of the Euphrates River. The Euphrates River is located in Iraq, Turkey, Syria, and Iran.
  
  “According to the biblical prophetic timeline given in scripture, four major prophetic fulfillments will occur at approximately the same time.
  * The international community’s adoption of a peace plan for the Middle East
  * The building of Israel’s temple on the Temple Mount
  * Preparations being made for the implementation of the mark of the beast
  * The E
  
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- smv803
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 9:17am
  Amen! Some just do not want to understand or can’t.
  
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- Sparky101
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 10:50am
  Sorry Rook, no one “predates” Jesus. In fact those that you think do, were created by Jesus.
  
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- Sparky101
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 10:58am
  Tonypro, about the only act that will keep you out of heaven is disbelief (John 3:16 says it clearly). Do not allow the devil to take away the “joy” you have in Christ. If your name is written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, it won’t be erased.
  
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- Pontiaku
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 11:12am
  [Bible is very understandable and pretty straight foward,]
  Nope. Not even straight “forward”.
  
  [after all how many ways can you define thou shall not kill?]
  Many ways, as it has been translated and mistranslated numerous times.
  
  [there isnt 200 different meanings of that commandment for 200 different denominations,]
  Funny how wrong you are. If the bible was as straight forward as you claim there wouldn’t be more than 1 denomination of christianity.
  
  http://bible.cc/romans/13-9.htm
  
  Report this comment
- ThriCeSLewis
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 1:24pm
  Proverbs 25:2
  It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings.
  
  Matthew 13:13
  This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
  
  Matthew 15:11
  He who has ears to hear, let him hear…
  
  Also…this is tangental but relevant:
  
  The Messianic Secret
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DahmJsoyvok
  
  Why is God Hidden?
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBu_Jw61UZE
  
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- mr_ness
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 10:23pm
  amen
  
  Report this comment
- emberlyawake
  Posted on February 25, 2013 at 3:11am
  I have read the bible many times over the years and as I’ve grown older I’ve learned that the Words are layered. It’s why I can read it daily and still learn something new. Far be it from me to suggest that the layers don’t go deeper than we see at a glance. I’d just say, pray before reading and let the Spirit lead you into the truth.
  
  Report this comment
shorelineliz
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:40am
Beep…..Beep……Beep……..wait a minute folks…….here it comes…….yes……..getting it over the teletype…….here comes the rebuttal to the American Association of Atheists and the American Psychiatric Scientific Man Made Theory Division that “all life came from a huge gas emission from a clingon to Uranus”……….yes….here……it comes now…….the teletype reads……The American Association of Charismatic Christians debunks this surreptitious and unsubstantiated man made theory and what? Says that they get “out of this world transmissions from God himself?” Yep……….you heard it here first folks!……….The Creator of the Universe who MADE URANUS talks directly to people via……what?………..languages?………oh…….tongues?…….okay……..well……they are claiming to be getting one of these transmissions from the “Big Guy” right now…..and……wait a minute…..what?………okay……sounds like……shudda…..botta…….Honda…….shudda…..botta….Hyundai………shudda botta………Honda………shudda……botta……Hyundai…….so…..folks…….what they are deliberating on now is…..what?……okay…….the conference board has determined that HALF the convention participants should go out now and buy a Honda and half should go out right now and buy a Hyundai……apparently…..the Creator is very concerned they purchase the “right” vehicle for the planet and get good gas mileage….beep….beep….beep..

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- Vision Harry
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:53am
  Obama is Hebrew for Uranus
  
  Report this comment
- Melika
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:27am
  Was that supposed to be clever because it comes off as just stupid.
  
  Report this comment
- SLOWBIDEN
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:45am
  The bad part was he took all that time to type that nonsense
  
  Report this comment
- SUNTZU
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:59am
  MELIKA
  
  You talking about Your car or
  Uranus
  If you look at Myanus ,sometime you
  can see two moons and a comet
  With a good telescope ,maybe even
  an asteroid or two
  
  Report this comment
- OUTLAW_WEALTH
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 11:14am
  Matthew 15:11
  
  Report this comment
- busterpuddles
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 11:21am
  Gas from a ‘clingon’ from ‘uranus’…LOL ..funny.
  
  As far as secret codes go, so many non-believers think they are so smart and intellectual when after reading the entire Bible, they still don’t get the message. It really doesn’t matter which translation you read, the idea is conveyed as if it were on a jumbo tron. Even if some passages are just a bit out of reach for the average person’s understanding, can you not use your ‘context clues’ to figure it out?
  
  Report this comment
- HYPNOTOAD
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 1:29pm
  Scripture says the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. So congratulations for making fun of one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
  
  Report this comment
gac1218
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:37am
Here’s the secret code/ death sandwich in my life.
I paid off my house, (good), then my father passed away from cancer, (death), then our friends just had a baby that the doctors said would never happen, (good).
That’s secret, death sandwich code, for life.

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- mycomet123
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:01am
  thanks for the laugh!
  
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- jdtanker
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:31am
  Nothing in the Bible has been proven wrong. When you understand what is going on and why we are here then you too will understand the truth. God even said that he regretted creating man, but he himself came to this earth to save us for anyone who believes. Satan is the one who deceives and he’s doing a pretty good job. Don’t believe it? Why is God and Jesus Christ the only deities whose name is cursed by man over and over? Why not curse mohammad? Why not budda? Why not all the hindu gods? Because when someone curses God’s name, there is power behind it. Everyone in the room will be drawn to attention. Why are they trying to take everything Christian out of everything(schools, courthouses, cities, government, and public places)? They say we have to respect all walks of faith unless you are a Christian. Why do they make fun of Christians more than any other religion? Because it is the truth and Word is truth. Don’t let anyone deceive you. This is the time to choose which road to take.
  
  Report this comment
- carhouse
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 11:03am
  Luke 10:18
  satan shall fall from the sky like lightening
  hebrew for “from the sky” is …Barak
  
  Report this comment
- spirited
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 1:08pm
  Hmm,
  He did kind of come out of no where fast
  
  > and furious
  
  Report this comment
- mycomet123
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 4:16pm
  I believe the Bible is the living Word of God. What I don’t believe in is secret codes. I believe so called “secret codes” are nothing more than satan wanting peolpe to waste their time looking for some hidden meaning & in the process, loose the Truth that is plainly stated in the Bible–it’s demonic, please don’t waste your time & buy into the lie.
  
  Report this comment
- smv803
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 10:06am
  @JDTanker…..spot on and oh so true. Satan is working over-time, like never before. This time, It will be worse than ever before for non- believers.
  
  Report this comment
- Pontiaku
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 11:33am
  [Nothing in the Bible has been proven wrong.]
  Nothing in the Koran has been proven wrong. See how silly that sounds?
  
  [God even said that he regretted creating man, but he himself came to this earth to save us for anyone who believes.]
  Oh yes yes. Create me and punish me for all eternity for not believing in a flying spaghetti monster. What a merciful and loving being worthy of unquestioned worship.
  
  [Don’t believe it? Why is God and Jesus Christ the only deities whose name is cursed by man over and over? Why not curse mohammad?]
  Because the ones that cursed mohammad were beheaded? What you curse is entirely subjective and based on culture? I don’t see where you’re going with this.
  
  [Why are they trying to take everything Christian out of everything(schools, courthouses, -, government, and public places)]
  Ahahaha, the same reason I’m trying to take or keep Islam, Hinduism, etc etc out of places they don’t belong. Because they DON’T BELONG THERE!
  
  [They say we have to respect all walks of faith unless you are a Christian.]
  They who? I have no respect for ANY superstition or the halfwits that immerse themselves in it.
  
  [Why do they make fun of Christians more than any other religion?]
  Because muslims aren’t posting their stupid [poop] here for you to see me lay into them for their idiocy. If I did you might think I’m a christian and not an atheist if I forgot to say how equally stupid all religion is.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 6:44pm
  SNOOP are you smoking crack? You keep replying to comments I made, in threads I never commented in. I already answered this elsewhere.
  
  Report this comment
- jdtanker
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 8:56pm
  Pontiaku, I guess you’ll find out someday.
  
  Report this comment
- Pontiaku
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 2:25pm
  jdtanker, either we blink out or I’ll be going the same place you are, because hell would be an eternity with “you” people.
  
  Report this comment
- jdtanker
  Posted on February 25, 2013 at 9:40am
  Pontiaku, well, good for you. You’ve made your decision and you are in total control. Full of hatred, you are.
  
  Report this comment
- Pontiaku
  Posted on February 25, 2013 at 10:55am
  lol.
  Okay, Yoda.
  
  Report this comment
gfg0010
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:35am
Nice to see Christians are finally getting around to reading the bible. Maybe now they’ll realize how silly it is.
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- trolltrainer
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:41am
  What’s silly about it?
  
  Report this comment
- gac1218
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:50am
  Please quote a silly scripture in context for me.
  
  Report this comment
- Eastinfection
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:59am
  you mean that part where Noah reached out to shake Moses’s hand … and then pulled it back and said “psyche!” at the last second? ha ha. That was silly.
  
  Report this comment
- gac1218
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:02am
  East
  Silly? Yes. Scripture? No.
  
  Report this comment
- JeffersonsPen
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:03am
  There is more than enough knowledge in the Bible to help anyone through life. It never ceases to amaze me how people think they are to smart for “fairey tales…..when referencing the Bible” News flash genuis………The only diffrence between you and the men from that time is electricity and the overload of quotable knowledge from the internet. Perhaps you should read it before you claim there’s nothing in it. Your arogance will be your death………………………of your soul. Jesus Loves you rather you accept it or not!
  
  Report this comment
- YOURSENSEI
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:23am
  This is what you must know:
  
  I knew it! First Chik Fil A and now this . . .the chicken sandwich of death.
  
  iI
  It is so.
  
  Report this comment
- EndTheGOPTEA
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:29am
  What version? lol.. All of them? Yep!
  
  Report this comment
- woodyl1011fl
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 12:04pm
  Typical, your silly statement reveals a very willfully ignorant mind that is really self-absorbed glorying in it’s own foolish ignorance.
  
  Report this comment
- 3monkeysmomma
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 12:08pm
  “Any similarity between GFG0010 and an actual human is purely coincendental.
  No pompus, blowhard atheist were harmed in the making of this comment”
  
  Report this comment
- God_Is_Not
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 12:10pm
  The need for Cain to have intercourse with his sister and/or mom was an interesting part. That had to of been awkward.
  
  Report this comment
- gac1218
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 1:09pm
  God is not
  You are so clever, that you don’t realize that even if evolution were true then someone had to have sex with their sister or mother.
  
  Report this comment
- God_Is_Not
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 1:47pm
  @ gac1218
  
  I desperately hope you’re kidding. Are you suggesting evolution implies the human race started with one male and one female? I think an explanation is in order.
  
  The talking snake was pretty good too. And the divinely inspired bears mauling children for mocking a man’s alopecia.
  
  Report this comment
- gac1218
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 2:14pm
  God is-
  Then what bred with what? and in turn propogated the species.
  At what point would man be man.
  At what point would an ape be an ape.
  At what point would a bird be a bird.
  For there to be another man, or bird, or ape, then 2 would have to come together to recreate and at some point the offspring would have to have sex with the parents or the siblings.
  If you have such a hard time understanding this then no wonder you struggle with creation and blindly accept the myth of evolution, which by the way has not one shred of proof. It’s a theory propagated by those who wish it to be true, even though empirical science denies the plausibility of it.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 2:15pm
  They claim to have traced DNA back to one female. Better bone up. I’m just sayin…
  
  Report this comment
- God_Is_Not
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 3:07pm
  @GAC1218
  
  I was going to question the foolishness of your implication that every species starts with two. Yes, it takes two to sexually reproduce, but that in no way limits communal evolution. Then I saw your last few statements and realized there’s really no point.
  
  Stick to your bible stories.
  
  Report this comment
- gac1218
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 3:38pm
  God IS-
  Really?
  That is the kind of answer I expect when you have no facts. Demeaning my beliefs by calling them stories?
  Give me some scientific proof of your claims to evolution. You can’t. All you have is theory.
  Prophecy inthe bible validates it as true.
  Over 300 prophecies were fulfilled with the birth, life, death and ressurection of Jesus Christ.
  The scientific odds of one man fulfilling just 8 of those prophecies is 1 x 10 27th power. That is filling the state of texas 2 feet thick with silver dollars and you blindly picking the one with the x on it. you couldn’t even do that in your kitchen, much less Texas.
  
  That’s just 8 of 300 and that’s just the prophecies of Jesus, not to mention Daniels prophecies of the coming age and all the others concerning Israel and the world as a whole.
  
  Archeology does nothing but recant after it finds that the historical writings of the Bible are only proved over time and never disproved. I could go on and on but if this isn’t enough then nothing else I say will matter.
  
  Your not interested in the truth, are you? You just want your theories to be right so you fight to your own destruction.
  
  Report this comment
- God_Is_Not
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 4:27pm
  Yes, I know the bible claims that Yeshua was the son of a god. It also claims that snakes talk. The bible appears to be appropriate for you.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 4:39pm
  Well, you’re proof that asshats can talk, so what’s your complaint?
  
  Report this comment
- Jimmy Stewart
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 5:43pm
  GFG0010,
  
  Give us an example of silly.
  
  Report this comment
- Atrum Angelis
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 5:45pm
  @theotherberean
  “They claim to have traced DNA back to one female. Better bone up. I’m just sayin…”
  
  They have traced it back to a common ancestor, who is known as Mitochondrial Eve and dates go to ~200,000 years ago. Further back than the bible would suggest if read literally. It doesn’t prove the Bible correct. Nor does it disprove it, though, if you take the Bible as allegory and not as literal truth.
  
  Report this comment
- snooop1e
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 8:05pm
  THEOTHERBEREAN wrote “we are Justified by works but saved by faith” This statement is totally unbiblical.
  
  Romans 5:1 “Therefore, since we have been justified through faith …”
  
  The only way for FAITH ALONE to work is by changing the biblical definition of JUSTIFICATION. THEOTHERBEREAN is slowly painting himself into a corner just as Martin Luther did. Martin Luther invented the idea of being JUSTIFIED by FAITH ALONE. This is the reason he added the word ALONE to his translation of Romans 3:28 and wanted the Epistle of James removed from the Bible. Romans 3:28, James 2:24 and writings in the Apocrypha contradict the teaching of being saved by FAITH ALONE. The Apocrypha were in the original 1611 King James Bible but Protestants later had them removed.
  
  The Greek word for JUSTIFIED is DIKAIOUTAI
  
  Cognate: 1344 dikaióō (from dikē, “right, judicial-approval”) – properly, approved, especially in a legal, authoritative sense; to show what is right, i.e. conformed to a proper standard (i.e. “upright”).
  
  The believer is “made righteous/justified” (1344 /dikaióō) by the Lord, cleared of all charges (punishment) related to their sins. Moreover, they are justified (1344 /dikaióō, “made right, righteous”) by God’s grace each time they receive (obey) faith
  
  JUSTIFIED means SAVED.
  
  The unbiblical man made traditions FAITH ALONE and SCRIPTURE ALONE are not found ANYWHERE in scripture and the only way to make them work is to change definit
  
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- PATTY HENRY
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 8:50pm
  Forgive them Father for they know not what they do. Hopefully one day they’ll actually READ the BIBLE and understand. “Our Father which art in HEAVEN ”….. in my Father’s House there are Many Mansions….Angels ascended to HEAVEN… and on and on and on. Considering the massive number of very well educated GOOD and PRODUCTIVE, CREATIVE people, you silly and pathetic little Atheists seem rather pitiful.
  
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- ModerationIsBest
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:14pm
  Wait….there’s good news in the Bible. Where?
  
  All I see is an egotistical being that is so illogical that he created a system knowing his creation would fail and then gets upset when the fail. How does he rectify this problem? By sending himself, as his son to suffer through a human sacrifice so we could be freed from the hell he created for us.
  
  LOVE!
  
  Sillyness
  
  Report this comment
- ModerationIsBest
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:18pm
  @GAC
  
  ““Now behold, I have two daughters who have not had relations with man; please let me bring them out to you, and do to them whatever you like; only do nothing to these men, inasmuch as they have come under the shelter of my roof,””
  
  He offers up his daughters to get raped by a mob.
  
  Okay fair enough, that’s not “silly” but it’s sickening.
  
  This was the guy that was holy enough to get saved from the wrath of Sodom and Gommorah? The guy who would offer his daughters up for rape?
  
  Report this comment
shorelineliz
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:32am
Beep…..Beep……Beep…..Beep………this just in………the American Association of Atheists coupled with the American Psychiatric Scientific Man Made Theory Division have just discovered the beginning of all life and are quite excited about sharing it with the world. Newscaster Madelyn O’Hairy is interviewing two of the seminar speakers, Dr. Knuckles and Dr. Chuckles…………..Madelyn? Madelyn? Sorry folks our live news feed here at CNN was cut off by Candy Crawley munching on a dozen donuts all at once and she poured her hot coffee on the live wire and kaboom! That Candy! what a funster!………..Beep…..Beep…….Beep……wait a minute folks…….yep……we getting some teletype……….okay…….just a minute folks……….their discovery seems to surround what they call a “clingon”to the Planet Uranus……..yes folks…….you heard it right…….Uranus has a clingon………..not previously seen before………because that side of the planet……..seemed to dip down into an atmospheric bowl……..yes…..folks……this proves…….that the origin of life known as “The Big Bang” was actually a clingon generated from Uranus……….oh….wait………the non-English participants to the scientific convention are upset their papers were not admitted simply because they do not speak English and are pissed off they have had to wait outside the convention building dragging their hairy knuckles all day……beep……beep….beep…………

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- trolltrainer
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:40am
  Did you catch the interview with Spock?
  
  Back on Vulcan, before he worked for starfleet, he was a clock cleaner.
  
  He sucked the dirt out of the clocks.
  
  He was a dirty vulcan clock sucker…
  
  Report this comment
- mayancalendar2012
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:45am
  Ouch…my brain hurts now.
  
  Report this comment
gac1218
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:31am
Really?
Secret code?
It seems that a narrative of life would include many good or average events, surrounding some bad ones.
Why waste time talking about some mystical code and ignore the content of the message?

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tommytruck
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:29am
Honestly – if the only thing the Blaze had to offer was its “faith” section, I wouldn’t be a subscriber…ever. Between the Catholic bashing and the Mormon pandering, you put this crap-sandwhich of an article.

Article Summary: “Experts” and random University used Technology to find an hidden code that nooooobody has ever before noticed! Erm…ehem…bull-pucky.

Billy Hallowell, you’re a mess.
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Vision Harry
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:27am
Whoever wrote the first five books of the Bible just happens to be Moses. If you haven’t already got that straight the rest of your scientific research will do you no good. Did anyone else catch that ommission?

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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:34am
  Moses did not write any part of the OT. Sorry…
  
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- gac1218
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:40am
  Moses is credited with writing the first five books of the bible. Called the pentateuch.
  You perceive wrong.
  
  Report this comment
- trolltrainer
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:46am
  Sure he did. Moses wrote the Pentateuch. This has always been accepted, the silly JEDP theory has not changed that and while it has some liberal supporters orthodox Christianity does not recognize it.
  
  Report this comment
- DLV
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:46am
  Doors- No one puts you as a credible source on the bible. You pretty much just wasted ten seconds or whatever typing that.
  
  Report this comment
- VoteRightDammit
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:47am
  TDOP: Perhaps in your little fantasy world.
  
  One thing, though: It’s good, I suppose, you have been able to find a faith-based religion you can believe in. Being able to accept things on faith, and realize we know very little about anything, is a good first step. Now if only you can apply that ability to a more realistic faith-based belief and live a life worth living.
  
  Or not; I don’t really care all that much.
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:47am
  Apparently, FEW books in the Canon have any credibility as per “the writer”, . . . as well as what is even found there in modern texts.
  
  Report this comment
- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:48am
  you should do some research…
  
  Report this comment
- Max jones
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:53am
  I believe that all those words and any code involved are the Words of YHVH. Non-believers do best by staying out of grown-up’s discussions.
  I doubt these researchers have a handle on His definitions of life and death. Humans sure do spend a lot of time trying to comprehend the ineffable, don’t we?
  
  Report this comment
- DeavonReye
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:03am
  Max, . . . why do people like you post ad hominems against those who merely don’t agree with you? Why make it sound like they AREN’T “grown ups”??? Are you aware of the level of scholarship is involved with those who have taken years to research this subject and have taken the time to actually find out [via archeaology, anthropology, etc] what actually transpired back then? Are you going to call them “non-grown ups” for finding information that runs contrary to your belief structure?
  
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- gac1218
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:08am
  Doors
  You’re the one who should do some research.
  What is it about the written Mosaic law spoken of throughout the bible that you don’t get. I find it unbelievable that you would even entertain this idea that the laws given to Moses by God were written by someone else.
  You obviously haven’t entered through the doors of perception yet.
  
  Report this comment
- gac1218
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:20am
  Deamon
  Archeology has done nothing but support the written word of the bible.
  King david was denied for years until manuscript were found about him.
  Jericho was said to be a fable until they dug it up with the walls falling outwards, just as the bible says.
  The Red sea crossing is scoffed at until they found fossilized chariot wheels on the bottom.
  The new testament was said to be perverted until they found the dead sea scrolls.
  
  The fulfillment of prophecy verifies the writers, and archeological descoveries verify the history.
  
  Truth is your not really interested in it being valid, are you?
  
  Report this comment
- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:20am
  @voteright
  
  My fantasy world? You mean like talking animals, men living in fish for extended periods of time, resurecction of the dead, women made from ribs, children born of a virgin, angels, demons, humans living for 700yrs…
  
  @everyone else
  
  When I say do research…I mean by scholars and not apologetics. Find people whos beliefs are molded to fit the evidence…not people who mold the evidence to fit their beliefs…people like yourself.
  
  If you think they bible is perfect and accurate you just haven’t done enough…simple.
  
  Report this comment
- Max jones
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:26am
  Moses penned the Pentateuch, YHVH ‘wrote’ it. Non believers should stay out of “grown up” discussions.
  
  Report this comment
- rochrealtor
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:41am
  Moses wasn’t alive for the first five books.
  
  Report this comment
- DeavonReye
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:42am
  GAC, . . . so, . . .what exactly did leading scholars and scientists do wrong when they DIDN’T find what you claim “has been found”? What they have said . . . wasn’t “their opinion”.
  
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- gac1218
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:48am
  Doors
  It seems you need to do some research instead of believing atheistic activist’s account of how things should be.
  Are you really open to the truth or have you already decided what you want to believe?
  If that is the case then no facts will change your mind, you have become and atheistic zealot and may not even realize it.
  Do me a favor and read Isaiah 58, written 400 years before Jesus, then read one of the accounts of the crucifixion in the Gospels.
  If you really want to do some research then read Daniel’s account of things to come and then correlate it with what happend in history.
  Jesus fulfilled 300 prophecies with his birth, life, death and ressurection. That’s not inaccuracies or fantasies but empirical truth. Unlike, unprovable fantasies put forth as truth by the so called intelligencia.
  
  Report this comment
- SLOWBIDEN
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:51am
  A whale is not a fish or did you not know that either.
  
  Report this comment
- Atrum Angelis
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:57am
  @GAC:
  The chariot tracks were faked by a man whos reputation in archaeology is low. He, as well as other, have found chariot wheels on the bottom of the Red Sea, and many other bodies of water, that ended up there due to the sinking of ships carrying them.
  However, Jericho and King David have evidence within the archaeological records.
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 11:01am
  BTW, GAC, just because SOME things written about in ancient texts [finding their way into the Canon] included actual locations, . . . that doesn’t mean that [therefore] everything else in it was equally true.
  
  Also, can you give links to the evidence for “manuscripts that could have ONLY been the ‘King David’ spoken of in the Old Testament”? I’d like to see credible evidence for the Jericho claim as well. And even if the Jericho one was true, there is more to the story that is rather ghastly, if true.
  
  If you search for non apologetic explainations for the “chariot wheels at the bottom of the Red Sea”, you may find your claim less impressive. No way to know exactly what they found, but let’s be reasonable. If it were as the bible claims, . . . would you only find ONE?
  
  Bible “prophesy”, and the “fulfillment” are wildly open to interpretation. Claimed “prophetic passages” never claimed they were, but were “discovered as prophetic” after a later event had similar sounding characteristics. Because histories often repeat themselves, it is reasonable that things would be similar in different times. Then we have the case where one part of the “prophetic story” doesn’t match up WITH “the prophesy”, so gets left out when “the prophesy” is spoken of. Or, they are grossly exagerated or allegorized into what they never stated originally. That’s why “dogs surround me” are transformed into “Roman soldiers”.
  
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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 11:52am
  @GAC
  
  I have read the bible…I’m not an atheist zealot. Biblical scholars(who aren’t apologists) are not part of some crazy atheist conspiracy. Like I said you will mold the evidence to fit your beliefs…I will follow the evidence and then so will my beliefs will follow. That is what I did when I left christianity…you need the bible to be true and the people who you read and listen to need the bible to be true. Go to someone without a dog in the fight…see what you might find.
  
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- 2Amend
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 12:56pm
  Yes, and Moses is also credited with writting Job, and the 90th Psalm, as well.
  
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- Jnuke
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 12:59pm
  Romans 11:8 as it is written, God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, down to this very day.
  
  Praying for you guys.
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 1:26pm
  Ahh, I see the ignorant twerps are back.
  
  Twerp said [prophecies] “were “discovered as prophetic” after a later event had similar sounding characteristics.”
  
  Wrong. “Similar” sounds like a Nostradamus thing. It’s not how you “feel” about a prediction or prophecy, it’s all about whether or not it comes to pass. Bible prophecy has always been fulfilled to the letter. Or else the prophet was declared a false prophet and killed. Makes you think twice when uttering “so sayeth the Lord.” If that were the case today we wouldn’t have Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, SdA, Word Faith, etc.etc. etc..
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 1:29pm
  njuke. I’m currious as to what you think is actually happening, in regards to the verse you posted. If people actually find information that places doubt on another “fully believed thing”, . . . and the information found is verified, . . . do you think that these “eyes and ears” have just somehow saw what wasn’t actually there, or did a god plant false information for the specific purpose of deceiving people later to come?
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 1:35pm
  No Twerp, that happens when God leaves them to their own desires.
  
  This evil people, who refuse to hear my words, who walk in the stubbornness of their heart, and are gone after other gods to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this belt, which is profitable for nothing. Jer 13:10
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 1:44pm
  That isn’t what the verse says. It is clearly stating that a “god” is doing this on purpose.
  
  And, why do you always feel you have to name call, like a playground bully? If you want to discuss something with civility, then I am all for that. Are you willing?
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 1:57pm
  Look twerp, just give me your lunch money and shut up.
  
  Report this comment
- DeavonReye
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 2:40pm
  Thank you for proving a valuable point to whomever reads this exchange, Berean.
  
  To anyone else who wants to have a normal conversation, I’m game. jnuke, I still pose the question to you.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 2:47pm
  Ignorant twerp: You don’t really believe people think your comments are any more “civil” than mine, do you?
  
  Report this comment
- DeavonReye
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 3:14pm
  LOL . . . . whatever, Berean.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 3:31pm
  Yeah, that’s what we think every time you post something stupid. Which is pretty much every post.
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 3:40pm
  You know, . . . just because YOU think is the case, . . . doesn’t make it true. Let me ask you a simple question. When it comes to this world and our ability to test for what is fact, it should be clear to anyone that it is quite natural. As time has gone one, . . . it has become extremely obvious that naturalistic mechanisms are the best answer for what we see in the world and universe. Anything “supernatural”, or “god like” has not been identified, and normally resides in the anecdotal or “personal beliefs that something must be true”.
  
  So, here’s the question. Can you perceive any level of probability that you could be wrong in what you believe to be true? This is a serious question.
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 4:37pm
  Hey twerp, it’s more than just fairy tales and personal beliefs. It’s history, archeology and thousands of personal accounts, as well as extra-Biblical evidence.
  
  I’m sure you realize you offend people when you insist Christians don’t have the ability to think rationally,and I’m sure that’s your goal, disguised behind your appeal for civility from others when they chastise you.
  
  Having worked on particle accelerators for 20 years, I know that one cannot survive in that environment without the ability for rational thought and critical thinking. You don’t have to be stupid to believe in God. I also have based my conclusions concerning God and the Bible using those same critical thinking methods and I have concluded with reasonable expectations of certainty that the Bible is indisputably everything it claims to be.
  
  Yes, I am wise enough to understand that not everything I believe is necessarily true and I’m certainly not beyond reproach. If you do however manage to prove me wrong on an issue I’m reasonably sure of, your tongue will probably be hanging out. I am correctable but you have to convince my beyond a reasonable doubt if I already believe I have the truth. If I’m wrong, that’s fine but “show me first the holes in your hands and feet…” Then I will believe you have risen from the dead.
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 5:04pm
  Berean, . . . fair enough. Thanks.
  
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dnewton
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:27am
The Bible is like like Obamacare! The bad news is sandwiched between the first and last page.

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- thegreatcarnac
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:37am
  good one
  
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- tolerence
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:02am
  Obamacare will send more people into Hell,the Bible brings more people into Heaven…quite opposite
  
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HOOT_OWL
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:18am
I guess it depends on how do you like your sandwich …?

If you refuse the Bread of Life, thereby believing the ’Death Sandwich’ , is nothing but ’empty calories’.

Then your demise will be …a HOT open-faced crap sandwich’ ..‘heavy on the hell bound heathen‘.

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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:30am
  You’re going to hell for not worshiping Allah. You’re going to be eating a hot falafel…
  
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- makeemstop
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:37am
  Love it! Great analysis… you summed up this article perfectly!
  
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- gac1218
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:44am
  Doors
  I perceive you’re just trying to emote controversy with your comments.
  
  Report this comment
- YourVoiceMatters
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:46am
  Love the analogy btw…It started out all good…then satan entered the picture and corrupted all that was good that God had created! that is the crap part…but God then tells us that He made a way… Jesus, offering a hope bracket to the world! God tells you the truth (you see the crap factor :satan and his evil) then God offers a way of escape that you may be able to bear it… Telling you over and over to establish this great Truth…He ALWAYS offers the way out, the road to victory in life…How interesting it took them (scholars?) 6000++ years to find out what most of us took for granted as we read the Bible hmmm..thanks for diagramming it out for everyone….
  
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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:49am
  Yeah, once again Hoot can flippantly talk about hell and eternal torture of human beings but I repay the favor and I’m stirring up controversy. Try again..
  
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- gac1218
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 1:03pm
  Hoot is also out of line.
  
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- HOOT_OWL
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 1:40pm
  Hey gac1218 keep sucking up to Doors, I’m sure that will win thim over.
  
  Was Jesus was ‘out of line’ too..?
  
  LUKE 9:60
  Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead,
  but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God’
  
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- 2Amend
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 2:01pm
  No where in the Bible does it say that God torments bad people with fire! In fact, when the nation next door to Israel sacrificed their children, by burning them alive to the god Mo’lech.. God Himself said that something that heinous “would not come up into my heart to do this detestable thing..” Jer.32:35. Another slanderous lie propagated by Satan, through inacurate translating of Greek to English, getting normal people to reject God.
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 2:13pm
  The ignorant twerps are just angry because they don’t have what we have. Typical liberal taker mindset. If you have something then they should be able to have it too, and you are obligated to give it with them. If you don’t give it them, then you shouldn’t be able to have it either, and if they can’t take it from by any means necessary they will attempt to destroy it so that you can’t have it either.
  
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- gac1218
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 2:24pm
  Hoot
  Sorry I offended you by telling doors you were also out of line.
  There’s no place for condescending talk from people who claim to be christians.
  “The Lord’s servant must not quarrel, it only leads to controversy”
  ” Speak the truth in love”
  “Get the log out of your own eye, before you worry about his splinter”
  It’s one thing to debate truth, based on the facts of the bible, it’s another thing to disrespectfully, rub scripture in unbelievers faces.
  Then you become a “clanging gong or resounding cymbal”, or just a bunch of noise to them.
  The only one I suck up to is my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
  
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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 2:31pm
  @GAC
  
  Upstanding of you. I don’t think you are sucking up to me at all.
  
  I am merely reacting…I of course don’t believe anyone is going to hell and I am thankful for that. When someone mentions a place of eternal human torture with more glee than actual proof…I will just throw it in their face because I’m tired of it. So, if Hoot likes to think of people going to hell…I will tell him how he is going to hell because he doesn’t believe in someone else’s god…hopefully to prove how stupid it is to actually do that.
  
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- HOOT_OWL
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 6:01pm
  GAC .
  No offense taken ,I’m not the one sugar coating sin and the wages of it.
  
  Now that you made this personal ..Lets talk about that log in your eye.
  
  The “last person” that gave me any flack about ‘disrespecting’
  someone’s beliefs that will lead them to the gates of hell …
  
  “Was a false prophet promoting the perversion of H0mosexuality”.
  
  How about you .I’m calling you out of the Closet..
  
  What’s your stance on the abomination of the man on man perversion
  referred to as hom0sexuality…?
  
  Report this comment
- Pontiaku
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 11:39am
  The_Doors_Of_Perception
  [When someone mentions a place of eternal human torture with more glee than actual proof…I will just throw it in their face because I’m tired of it. ]
  I tell them I’m going to the same place they’re going, because if heaven lets “christians” like him in I can think of no greater hell than to be stuck there with them for all eternity.
  
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- HOOT_OWL
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 2:52pm
  Yeah , all I’m doing is just pointing out the wages of sin and there’s
  many ways to get that point across. I don’t go around in public
  beating people over the heads with a bible ,I don’t even go to
  atheist web sites and preach or mock or try to push myself on them.
  
  I make a comment.
  A generalized comment at that and it’s not even directed at anyone in particular.
  
  Not only that.. This time I chose to keep it in ‘the context’ and theme
  of theblaze story .
  
  And you fools make pretend that was the deal breaker
  for your denying ‘Christ’. “The Savior “of your soul from going to HELL..!
  
  Yeah ,oh wise godless ones ‘that are so concerned about proper
  Godly etiquette.
  
  You keep twisting the message . I say ‘tell it walking’ you pawns
  of Satan .
  
  One things is for sure ,when your butts are on the hot seat at
  ‘The Great White Thrown of Judgment’ .
  
  All your replies here. on this thread ‘even the clown pretending
  to be some kid of expert’ on the proper way to minister to Atheist .
  
  You wont be able to say ‘no one told you’ ..About the wages of sin .
  
  Or the REAL Hell or The only way to avoid the place (JESUS CHRIST) .
  
  And now you know why Christians call Jesus our SAVIOR .
  
  And the place (HELL) that Jesus saves us from.
  
  Report this comment
john vincent
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:18am
This changes nothing in the minds of the sceptic, scoffer, or believer-

A human program trying to figure the divine fingerprint? You may as well try to paint the wind.
‘The foolishness of God is wiser than men,’ and furthermore, the bible (since its inception) was written with the understanding of the reader in view. The grammar, choice of words, structure was complex but simple: Genesis has the primers of kindergarden, Leviticus grade school, and by the time one reads Romans, he is reading ‘college’ material; very interesting and a thesis written years ago (Sorry
I cannot remember the fellows name) that develops this thought.

This idea of ‘secrets’ or ‘codes’ is only for the shallow of thought. Its difficult reading (because the heart must be right) what is in plain daylight- God does not play tricks with the minds of men, if so, they would arguably have an excuse….. but writers have always used the concept of ‘hidden’ ideas, its no secret, nor is it hidden, just good writing,

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- trolltrainer
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:24am
  Great points. You further my thoughts in my own post. God does not play games. It is our faulty human logic that causes the problems.
  
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- Amos37
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:46am
  There are hidden codes and messages that aren’t revealed to the believer until the right time. The only problem most of the ‘prophets’ of our day is that they don’t let God’s Word interpret itself. They try to make something out of what they believe without proper understanding of the symbolism. THE BIBLE INTERPRETS ITSELF. It’s like a jigsaw puzzle that you go through trying to find all the pieces, only God can put them together the way they are supposed to be. Everyone has knowledge, only God can give understanding.
  
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Eastinfection
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:16am
I prefer to enjoy my goodnews/ badnews/ goodnews sandwich with a side of deep-fried sarcasm and a good India Pale Ale.

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Kaoscontrol
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:15am
“Genesis Death Sandwich.” Sounds like the name of a Christian metal band.

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- 2Amend
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 1:26pm
  Lol
  
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willbedone
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:14am
Our God is a MIGHTY god. His has created a very precision universe from the sub atomic particles to the most distant object in space. I am sure that there is more detail that is in the bible than we realize. Even on it’s surface level we don’t comprehend what HE is telling us. It would have impressed me more if the authors of this piece would have written on why in the ancient Hebrew text the letters Aleph and Tav are inserted at seemingly random spacing, while these characters are not translated into our English Christian Bible.

On a side note, the photo that is associated with this article contains a English Christian Bible, however, the hand that is on it is wearing a ring with the Hebrew letter Shin.

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trolltrainer
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:12am
Man creating human theories to try and gain an understanding of that which is far beyond his comprehension.

Literary criticism is fine, nothing wrong with trying to gain more insight into the Bible. Just keep it in perspective. The Holy Spirit gave us God’s Word in the way He did for a reason. Just read the book. There is nothing “hidden” between the lines, it plainly says what it says. There are things we will never fully understand within, but God gave us what He wants us to know in this life. All we have to do is read it.

Making the Bible say what you want is no trick. The secret is to understand it for what it really tells us. The only thing you need to do this is prayer, diligent study and the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

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- katzkiner
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 4:30pm
  We have the ” beings eye view” of the creation, we can not grasp the “Gods eye view” yet.
  Example: Scientists say there are 1.2 trillion cells in your body, each containing 80 inches of DNA. That is far beyond human understanding, as beings we are embryos. Our job is to seek truth and understanding, scoffers will never get there. Do not rely on your own understanding. If that doesn’t work for you, try to count the stars. You can’t.
  
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gauge
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:12am
The green boxes represent mentions of death and the red ones showcase themes pertaining to life?

How bout using Red for death and green for life?

Must be liberal progressives decided the colors.

You know, green for go, red for stop….

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- HOOT_OWL
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:24am
  Yep, I saw that too.
  
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SilentRunner
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:08am
The foundation of this “secret code” makes the Bible Code look absolutely brilliant.

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Jenny Lind
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:06am
And it may settle the burning question of how many angels can stand on the head of a pin. If we just just did what it teaches us, the world would be a great place and satan would have nothing to do. Sad our world-or much of it-doesn’t.

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Kaoscontrol
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:06am
You mean to tell me the Bible actually has sophisticated thought and design behind it’s authorship? Imagine that!

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Trapper20
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:00am
Okay….

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Windozed
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 8:55am
sheesh….

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Uechi
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 8:55am
Who cares?

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The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 8:55am
Ooohhh…god works in mysterious ways:) Interesting…

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- luxlife
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 9:56am
  You do realize William Blake was a believer don’t you?
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:14am
  …..his wonders to deceive.
  
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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 10:23am
  @Lux
  
  Yes I do realize that, your point? So are my Mom and sisters…still love them too. haha
  
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- Witness1974
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 11:19am
  Doors: Your Mom and sisters must be very grieved for you.
  
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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 11:57am
  Funny you should mention that…I would never openly tell my mother i’m an atheist. It makes me feel quite cowardly actually…but I do not wish to cause my mom undue pain. It really is a shame that she has been deceived, like you, into believing her own son is going to “hell” because he doesn’t believe. What kind of sick brainwashing that is, don’t you think? I mean think of the mental disconnect that must go on daily, having to seperate the people into god’s chosen and those going to eternal hellfire. My mother or father would never send me to torture for eternity…my parents are more moral than the god they believe in…and I hope you are too.
  
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- Witness1974
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 1:30pm
  We’ve been around and around this tree before, so I already know whatever I say to you is unprofitable. I should think that the word MORAL is a real problem for you. If it were not for the fact that God created a moral universe in which he put choices that have to be made by rational creatures with a will of their own, there would be no discussions of what is moral and what is not. For you, a creature, to bring charges of immorality against your creator is laughable. Clearly you have had the evidence presented to you and you have a choice to make. You need not go to hell, but if you remain an unrepentent, rebellious sinner, you have no place in heaven. Frankly it would not be heaven if you were there in your present state. Turn back! This is a road to death that you are on. Turn back to those, including God, who love you! Out.
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 1:51pm
  Ever notice that the ignorant twerps usually show up together? And disappear together? Don’t check the closets. You never know who might be in there….
  
  It sounds like you guys have also been spiritually abused so I probably shouldn’t pick on you, but I just can’t resist. You’re such easy targets.
  
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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 2:45pm
  @theotherbean
  
  Yeah you really show it to us. Other than your relgion you have many forms of delusions, including…but not limited to self-aggrandizing. You really are hopeless…in your most famous words and best argument in your arsenal of facts and logic……………twerp. Keep giving it to us Theother…lol
  
  @witness
  
  Sorry, I know what moral means…and I know it’s a word. Made up by men. But I still understand the meaning we have assigned it…and I am a very moral person. However, even if the everything you say is true I wouldn’t want to go to heaven. If the bible is true and that is the god that created the cosmos then you can have him…he is beneath me. I am more moral than him. Luckily, there is no reason to believe the bible or anything supernatural…the wonders of the natural world and reality are far to precious for me to assign any ridiculous agency to them. There is just no need. Again, for comparison sake, hold in your mind how you feel about islam…how feel about it’s believers…how concerned you are about going to hell because you dont’ believe in allah…how factual you think the koran is…what you feel about the miracles attributed to that religion(or any religion you are atheistic about) hold that feeling…feel it…really feel it. Nothing right?…now you know how I feel about your god and your book…one of which I use to call my own. You should understand we are very alike…I just reject one more god than you do…
  
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- Witness1974
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 3:26pm
  Doors: No, we are very different. I left atheism and went to God. You left God and went to atheism. You have accepted the atheistic evolutionary fairy tale that allows you to make up moraltity as you go along. I have God’s word as to what is right and what is wrong. Based on your own self-righteousness you will be spending eternity in hell alone with yourself (the most dreadful part of it) weeping and gnashing your teeth. I will be in the company of the saints in God’s presence rejoicing, not based on my own righteousness or morality but because of the righteousness of Christ who is the only mediator between God and men.
  
  I do know how you feel; I’ve been there. I don’t have to imagine how a muslim feels; I know many if not most of them are convinced that Allah is God, just like every other idol worshipper. But I don’t go on a web page and constantly post foolish and offensive comments about Allah. You are right I don’t spend one minute worrrying about the consequences of not worshipping Allah. Why do you spend so much time worrying about the God of the Bible? My sense is that you are still trying to convince yourself. If you were fully convinced that God doesn’t matter I would think we would never hear from you again.
  
  In all your arguments you have never presented anything cogent that makes sense of the universe. You cut and paste the same old cliche’s over and over.
  
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- Witness1974
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 3:31pm
  The Christians here have heard your arguments before. They are nothing knew. Satan has been hurling the same stuff since time begain. The only reason any of us bother with you is that we care about your soul. We know you have one, that it is immortal, and that you are nearing more rapidly than you know, a time when its disposition will be decided by your rejection of God. As for me I join my prayers with those of your sisters and your mother that God would lift the darkness that enshrouds you, a darkness that you have willingly sought out. You may not have told your mother about your atheism, but it can’t help but show. You are like a smoker who denies he smokes, but the odor of it still clings to his clothes and is on his every breath.
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 4:48pm
  I can’t speak for doors, . . . but for me, it would be absurd to “reject god”. For me to do that, I must have ample knowledge that this god exists and is as one specific religion [amongst thousands of others] is “the only true one”. What there is [for the god concept] is a book of claims, and millions of believers in those claims. That isn’t “god”. Even if those who believe ancient claims declare emphatically that “the words ARE the words of god”, . . . it is still a non-falsifiable claim.
  
  So, therefore the claims of people are weighed. Some people are not convinced of the claims of those who believe the ancient words to be true. That is what those who are labeled as “atheist” are. They are people who reject a claim made by other humans. A BIG difference between “a person who knows a god exists, has plenty of evidence for it, maybe even having personal visitations with a god, yet decides to reject that god’s love and worship something else”.
  
  I am one who sees nothing credible in the god claim. I WOULD, however, be quite inteersted in legitimate/credible sources of information that could not be denied. Though some would call me on that, I am as sincere about that as I can be.
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 4:57pm
  I’m not here to save anybody’s soul. I think that’s the Holy Spirit’s job. I hang out in the Faith section and debate cultists. I think people who believe it’s their job to save other people’s souls, sometimes do more spiritual damage than good. Take Doors and DEVON for example. Poor little things. Sexual abuse is rampant in “the church.”
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 5:01pm
  I was never sexually abused, and had a pretty good childhood, actually.
  
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- theotherberean
  Posted on February 22, 2013 at 5:10pm
  Hey twerp, there is nothing anyone can say to you that will convince you. So stop looking to men for answers. If you didn’t find them in the Bible then perhaps you’re not one of the elect. So grab some sunscreen and deal with it.
  
  The God you want – one you can hold in your hand and mold into anything you want Him to be – does not exist. He said “I AM Who I AM” and you can whine, complain and chastise people for doing what you aren’t willing to do, but unless you submit to His Will completely and utterly, you will not experience either the joy we have in knowing we are saved, nor the salvation you claim to be seeking. Pride is our worst enemy. Let it go.
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 8:42am
  When I say, “I can’t do that and not be hypocritical”, I say it in sincerity. First of all, you have not demonstrated that any “god” exists, . . . and even if such a being DID, . . . your experience isn’t going to “save” someone else.
  
  I do not know what it means to “submit to any god” when I see nothing credible in the claims. That isn’t pride or arrogance. And for the sake of argument . . . that your specific god is actually true. . . . and only chooses to “elect” a few people, and purposefully creates the others to exist eternally in a torture chamber WITHOUT any say, . . . . then this god is a sadistic monster who isn’t worthy of LOVING worship, but only fear from those who “were chosen”. That is a “slave/master” relationship, and a slave to the most evil and malevolent being to have ever existed, including “Satan”. To create something with the ability of feeling pain and suffering JUST so it would suffer incredible pain for eternity would be the most VILE thing ever. I make no apology saying this.
  
  Is this your god? You used the word “chosen”. If it is, . . . do you agree with it?
  
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- 2Amend
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 3:02pm
  @Doors: “It really is a shame that she has been deceived, like you, into believing her own son is going to “hell” because he doesn’t believe. What kind of sick brainwashing that is, don’t you think?” Yes.. I agree. As I mentioned above, that God would punish someone forever, in a place fiery torment is not a Bible teaching!
  A fiery “hell” for the bad is a lie Satan uses to empower religious leaders into scaring men [and mothers] into submission. Please follow: OT Bible writers wrote in Hebrew, the NT writers in Greek. The Greek word ‘hades’, and the Hebrew word Sheol, have the same meaning, BUT, this is where things get messed up! English translators of the KJV translated ‘Sheol’ 31 times as “hell”, 31 times as “grave”, and once as ‘pit’. ‘Hades’ was translated “hell” at all 10 places.
  This is the truth, Doors! The question now is.. what kind of place IS Sheol or Hades? First, erasing pre-conceived ideas, Sheol and Hades are the same place, and have the same meaning! So if “hell” is the same as “grave”, then it isn’t a place of torment, is it? This explains why Job, who was in much torments from the infected boils that Satan struck him with, thinking it was God, prayed saying “O that in Sheol [English 'grave'] you would ‘concea’l me until thy wrath pass..” so ask yourself, why would Job who was in pain, ask to be comforted in Sheol, if it is a place of fiery torment? It’s because it isn’t!
  Perhaps you could reason with your mom, use
  
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- Witness1974
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 5:51pm
  I would urge anyone who doubts the existence of Hell to pick up a Bible and read the New Testament yourself. 2ndamend would have us quibble about translations of a single word when what Christ said about a place of torment is much scarier than the word hell. It is a place of darkness, and a place of torment where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. It is described as: Everlasting fire Mt. 25:41; Everlasting punishment Mt. 25:46; Outer darkness Mt. 8:12; Everlasting destruction 2 Thess.1:9; Lake of fire Rev. 19:20. Read Christ’s teaching on Sheol in Luke 16:20-31. It was divided into a place of comfort and a place of torment and between the two was a “great gulf fixed.”
  
  There is nothing Satan would like better than for people to disbelieve the word of God and not believe in hell. In the Garden he used the same tricks he uses now. He casts doubt on the word of God, “Hath God said?” and he accuses God of bad motives. He loves to slander God. “You will not surely die. For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened and you will be like God knowing good and evil (Genesis 3). Adam and Eve had one simple law. They could eat freely from every other tree, of which I am guessing there were not just a few. There was only one prohibition, just one. And they listened to Satan and broke that one law. That one act has been the root of all human suffering up until today. Again, there is no place for rebels in the King’s court.
  
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- 2Amend
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 10:31pm
  1974, how ignorant can you get? You ignored the ‘truth’ I presented, and encouraged people to to read an altered text, as your ‘proof’? I just showed ‘doors’ that in the KJV, 32 places the Greek word “hades” was altered, in order to trick people into believing ‘hell’ is hot.. and YOU call this quibbling? Wrong! John quotes Jesus at 4:23 as saying, ‘true’ Christians “MUST” worship in “TRUTH”, or his worship is not excepted. Therefore, the “truth” if ‘hell is hot’ is very important!
  
  That the “original Greek” written by the Apostles has been altered, is NOT in dispute, and is why I left Duke University’s hypocritic, seminary college! I dared to question ‘why’ two totally different Greek words, “Hades”, and “Gehenna”, are BOTH rendered in English as “hell or hellfire”, as they have VERY different meanings! I was ostracized, but I made it very clear to them that NO ONE has the right to alter Gods word, and they WILL be heavily judged!
  Anytime the word “hellfire” or “fiery hell” is used, it is translated from a DIFFERENT Greek word, “Gehenna”.. NOT Hades! When Jesus was talking to the religious leaders who were trying to murder him, he told them they were destined for the “fires of Gehenna”.. NOT Hades [Hell]! Different word… different meaning! Jerusalem was a walled city with one side facing the “Valley of Hinnom”, and it was over THIS side of the wall that the garbage, waste, as well as despicable criminals, were tossed.
  
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- 2Amend
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 10:38pm
  It was HERE in this dump called Gehenna.. that they continually kept burning with fire, fed by sulphur [brimstone], that Jesus was referring to as the place those murderous religious leaders would end up. Those Scribes knew “Fiery Gehenna” was a DUMP filled with maggots.. and NOT ‘hell’, which is correctly translated ‘grave’.
  If God removes a person from existence, without the possibility of being resurrected, then THIS is eternal punishment.. eternal darkness! This is born out at Luke 12:4,5, which tells us to fear the one who can completely destroy a person.. in Gehenna! You discuss Luke, which is a parrable, and is symbolic, not real. Then you also quote the ‘Lake of Fire’ in Rev, as being Hell. Really? Rev is also symbolic and at the end of Rev20:14 it states that the ‘Lake of Fire’ MEANS “The Second Death”..NOT hell! Also notice that HELL is thrown into the Lake of Fire, so they cannot be the same. Therefore, it is YOU who are twisting the scripture.
  You mention Adam. God told him if he sinned he would DIE.. NOT go to a place of eternal fiery torment! This would make God pretty lame to screw over Adam like that, but he did not. Adam came from nothing, and nothing is what he returned to. A loving Father does NOT punish His children with literal fire, and neither does the Creator.
  
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- Witness1974
  Posted on February 25, 2013 at 1:32am
  2ndamend: I have heard your aguments before. They don’t hold water. Your basing an awful lot on definitions of words. If what you say is true then there really are no consequences for sin and we live in an amoral universe. It is at that point that the notion of God collapses all together. Annihilation is the hope every suicide. An end to pain. Whatever the word means, what Christ himself teaches about the nature of it is enough to lead any reasonable person to conclude hell is a good word for it.
  
  You missed the meaning of my reference to Adam. It was to show that the sin of Adam and Eve led to a cursed universe in which man is separated from God. That one sin, as I clearly stated, is the root of all human suffering here on earth up to this point–thousands of years of incalcuable pain and anxiety. It therefore does not seem unreasonable that the same God would have a place where immortal souls are subject to his wrath. The choice the Bible gives us is clear: Choose to experience eternal love, or eternal wrath.
  
  By the way. The so called “parable” in Luke is not a parable. No where in the text does it say it was a parable. In fact it starts with Christ’s statement: “There was a certain rich man.” The story also involves a teaching about a man we know is real, a man named Abraham. I doubt seriously that Christ would teach anything false about Abraham.
  
  I think it is good you left seminary. You seem quite bitter. No place for that in the minis
  
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- Witness1974
  Posted on February 25, 2013 at 1:45am
  To continue. Neither is there a place in the ministry for a false prophet that holds sinners hands and teaches there is nothing to worry about for unrepentent sinners. “Peace, peace, when there is no peace. You might as well get a job as a prison chaplain going from cell to cell telling the worst of the worst that everythings going to be fine. “Don’t worry about your execution. It’s going to be painless and then your trouble will be over. I’ve seen your type before. You’ve made it you personal mission to innoculate people agains the truth. I hate to think of the spirtiual destruction you’ve left in your wake. I’m sure all this will run off you like rain off a tin roof. But we shall see in the end what the real meaning of scripture is. Keep in mind that the Word of God was meant for simple people, not Greek scholars. It doesn’t take a knowledge of Greek to understand what Christ teaches. It’s really quite simple. It only becomes complicated when one is trying to justify some sin. Which it is my guess that you are. Go ahead, call me stupid again. Dig yourself in a little deeper. I hope Christ has more mercy on you than you have had on Him. By the way, what does salvation mean? Saved from what? If you just look at the suffering Christ endured on the Cross it ought to tell you something about what awaits those who do not trust in His suffering. He endured the wrath of God and separation from God. The wrath of God was poured out Him so that we migh
  
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- 2Amend
  Posted on February 25, 2013 at 6:11pm
  Eph. 5:1 reads, “Become imitators of God..” 1974, since you advocate and agree with this horrid hellfire doctrine that states God punishes bad people FOREVER in a literal fire.. shouldn’t Christians or any other follower of Yahweh, who are suppose to ‘imitate God’ and His Son, punish THEIR children in the same manor, by placing their little hands on a stove? The question is valid, sir.
  Luke16 IS a parable, unless you ignore the scriptures. As you know, they state Jesus would only speak to the crowds in illustrations. Also, do you really think someone in a literal fire could have his thirst quenched by a single ‘drop’ of water? [vs24] You also claim this is ‘real’ because the name Abraham was used. I will help you understand this “parable”, that does not begin in vs 19, as you believe, but 18 “”Everyone that divorces and marries another commits adultery”.
  Previously, in vs 14 we read the “Pharisees were MONEY lovers and were sneering at Jesus, clearly this parable was being directed at them, as a symbolic ‘Rich man’. They also looked down on the people.. referring to them as accursed, so Lazarus symbolically represents the common people. [Joh7:47-49] What is paramount in this illustration, is their ‘death’. Israel was in a covenant with God and was spoken of as His ‘wife’. [Jer3:14] However, Jesus’ death initiated a ‘New’ covenant, in which HIS followers became ‘his’ bride.[Joh3: 28,29]
  
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- 2Amend
  Posted on February 25, 2013 at 6:21pm
  The Jews had to be released from the Mosaic law, that made them Yahweh’s figurative ‘wife’.. in order for them to become the “bride” of Jesus. How is a wife released from a marriage covenant? That is answered at the beginning of the parable, at vs18, with death ending a marriage. This whole “parable” was about the legal switching of these covenants! You can read Romans 7:1-6 for more clarification.
  Why was he literally tormented? He was only rich. Does this merit being sent to your hellfire? Lazarus was a sickly beggar.. so is it logical that all sickly beggars receive divine blessings at death? No! Abraham represented the murderous Pharisees who were being tormented by Jesus’ message and desperately trying to stop it. In the illustration, the Father [God] stated these religious leaders had Moses and the prophets, and if they paid attention to them, and accepted Jesus as the Messiah, it would have been shielded them from the tormenting effects of Gods judgment. Not once does Moses or any prophet discuss any literal place of torment after death.
  Again I use Gods word to show you that burning people alive is detestable to Him, and would never even come into His mind. [Jer32:35] The most severe punishment from God that the Bible speaks of, is the removal of someones existence.. unconscious nothingness, without a chance of a Resurrection. How could you possibly believe this is not a terrifying end to ones existence. God doesn’t need to torture, but it sure helps fill
  
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- Witness1974
  Posted on February 26, 2013 at 1:12am
  2Amend: I don’t think I’ve ever run into anyone who claims to be a believer and so thoroughly misreads scripture. The first part of your argument about parents disciplining is really bizarre and disengenuous. It reveals a real twisted rhetorical bent, which is probably why you also misread most everything.
  
  Your statement that no prophet ever spoke of everlasting fiery torment must mean that you do not include Christ as a prophet, because He certainly did. If fire is a metaphor, then God save me from the reality. The torment is, among other things, described as darkness and fire. In other words, heat an no light. Kind of like what you have brought to this discussion. “Abraham represented the murderous Pharisees who were being tormented by Jesus’ message and desperately trying to stop it.”
  I think you had better read it again: “Abraham’s bosom” “Father Abraham.” Abraham is a believer whose faith saved him. He was not anything like a Pharisee (Hebrews 11:8-10). You are right in one thing, Lazarus did not merit salvation based on his poverty. It is obvious that taken with the rest of scripture, Lazarus was saved by faith and the rich man condemned based on his rejection of God. A primary Sunday schooler should know that. Finally, annihilation terrifying? Have you ever experienced deep sleep or general anesthesia? Not terrifying at all to a unrepentent sinner. No one commits suicide unless they think it will improve their lot–an end to suffering!
  
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- Witness1974
  Posted on February 26, 2013 at 1:57am
  2amend continued: Jeremiah 32:35? Like you’ve done else where, you are confusing God with human beings. Of course God would see the burning of human beings in the process of idol worship as an abominable sin. It’s pretty clear throughout scripture what His opinions are of idol worship and murder, whether by fire or any other means. Humans do not have the authority to take life except in the defense of life under the authority of God. But does God consume people with fire? Yes. II Kings 1: 6-17.
  
  Now, would a righteous God torture any rational creature with fire for eternity? That is what He intends to do with Satan et al. Unless you think the lake of fire is a symbol for a warm water resort. “And the devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night FOREVER and EVER. . . .
  And ANYONE not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire” (Rev. 20: 10, 15).
  
  Anyone who reads scripture should first look for literal meaning and then for nuance and metaphorical meaning. To assume that everything is figurative always leads to misunderstanding. The Bible has multiple levels of meaning that do not contradict. It is meant to be understood by the simplest of men and also to be fascinating to the highest intellect. It is meant to warn, and comfort the holiest of us. God means to reveal Himself and His truth to honest hearts.
  
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firman
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 8:54am
Now if we can only get them to uncover Obamas “American death sandwhich”…..Oh wait, it’s already been done but the media ignores it.

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Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
Posted on February 22, 2013 at 8:50am
Kind of like, “The state will increase the number of weeks you can continue to collect unemployment, although the likely hood of you getting a job is null, food stamps will also increase.”

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