Developing: Pakistani Plane Escorted by UK Fighter Jets — 2 Men Arrested

Listen to the Buck Sexton Show Live on TheBlaze Radio

Faith

‘Deplorable’: Vatican Lashes Out at Media for Spreading ‘Completely False’ Stories About Pope’s Resignation

Feb. 23, 2013 4:00pm Erica Ritz

(TheBlaze/AP) — The Vatican lashed out Saturday at the media for what it said has been a run of defamatory and false reports before the conclave to elect Pope Benedict XVI’s successor, saying they were an attempt to influence the election.

Italian newspapers have been rife with unsourced reports in recent days about the contents of a secret dossier prepared for the pope by three cardinals who investigated the origins of the 2012 scandal over leaked Vatican documents.

The reports have suggested the revelations in the dossier, given to Benedict in December, were a factor in his decision to resign. Others are saying he could be put on trial over the Catholic sex abuse scandal. But the pope himself has said merely that he doesn’t have the “strength of mind and body” to carry on and would resign Feb. 28.

On Saturday, a day before Benedict’s final Sunday blessing in St. Peter’s Square, the Vatican secretariat of state said the Catholic Church has for centuries insisted on the independence of its cardinals to freely elect their pope – a reference to episodes in the past when kings and emperors vetoed papal contenders or prevented cardinals from voting outright.

Today, though, they say the media is the institution attempting to exert its influence over the proceedings.

“If in the past, the so-called powers, i.e., States, exerted pressures on the election of the pope, today there is an attempt to do this through public opinion that is often based on judgments that do not typically capture the spiritual aspect of the moment that the church is living,” the statement said.

Vatican Slams Deplorable Reporters Spreading Completely False Stories About Popes Resignation and Successor

In this photo provided by the Vatican newspaper L’Osservatore Romano, Pope Benedict XVI, right, delivers his message concluding a weeklong spiritual retreat, at the Vatican, Saturday, Feb. 23, 2013. (Photo: AP)

“It is deplorable that as we draw closer to the time of the beginning of the conclave … that there be a widespread distribution of often unverified, unverifiable or completely false news stories that cause serious damage to persons and institutions.”

Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico Lombardi was asked how specifically the media was trying to influence the outcome, but he didn’t respond directly. He said only that the reports have tended to paint the Curia in a negative light “beyond the considerations and serene evaluations” of problems that cardinals might discuss before the conclave.

Some Vatican-watchers have speculated that because the Vatican bureaucracy is heavily Italian, cardinals might be persuaded to elect a non-Italian, non-Vatican-based cardinal as pope to try to impose some reform on the Curia.

While Lombardi has said the reports “do not correspond to reality,” the pope and some of his closest collaborators have recently denounced the dysfunction in the Apostolic Palace.

Cardinal Gianfranco Ravasi, for example, criticized the “divisions, dissent, careerism, jealousies” that afflict the Vatican bureaucracy. He made the comments Friday, the penultimate day of the Vatican’s weeklong spiritual exercises that were attended by the pope and other officials. Ravasi, himself a papal contender, was chosen by Benedict to deliver daily meditations and on Saturday Benedict praised him for his “brilliant” work.

Pope Benedict XVI holds a copy of his book as he meets with RCS Publisher Paolo Mieli, left, and Cardinal Gianfranco Ravasi, President of the Pontifical Council for Culture, center, at the Vatican, Tuesday, Nov. 20, 2012. (Photo: AP)

The divisions Ravasi spoke of were exposed by the documents taken from the pope’s study by his butler and then leaked by a journalist. The documents revealed the petty wrangling, corruption and cronyism and even allegations of a gay plot at the highest levels of the Catholic Church.

The three cardinals who investigated the theft had wide-ranging powers to interview even cardinals to get to the bottom of the dynamics within the Curia that resulted in the gravest Vatican security breach in modern times.

Benedict too has made reference to the divisions in recent days, deploring in his final Mass as pope on Ash Wednesday how the church is often “defiled” by attacks and divisions from within. Last Sunday, he urged its members to overcome “pride and egoism.”

On Saturday, in his final comments to the Curia, Benedict lamented the “evil, suffering and corruption” that have defaced God’s creation. But he also thanked the Vatican bureaucrats for having helped him “bear the burden” of his ministry with their work, love and faith these past eight years.

The Vatican’s attack on the media echoed its response to previous scandals, where it has tended not to address the underlying content of accusations, but has diverted attention away. During the 2010 explosion of sex abuse scandals, the Vatican accused the media of trying to attack the pope; during the 2012 leaks scandal, it accused the media of sensationalism without addressing the content of the leaked documents, according to the Associated Press.

CBS News has more on the story:

–

In CONTROL, Glenn Beck presents a passionate, fact-based case for guns that reveals why gun control isn’t really about controlling guns at all; it’s about controlling us. Find out more HERE.

Back to The Blaze »

Comments (241)

Paulzy
Posted on February 24, 2013 at 12:37am
The 7th king just resigned now the harlot will ride the beast

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- tonypro
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 1:16pm
  The ONLY reason I pay attention to the vatican is so I will know when the false profit steps out onto the scene. Other than that, I have no use for the popes, or their minions.
  
  Report this comment
- Platonician
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 1:51pm
  If The Blaze wants to be a beacon of truth amid the depravity of the american and world MSM, they need to hire people who know a bit about Catholicism, instead of ignoramus like Billy Hallowell or the author of this hit piece.
  
  Report this comment
- mycomet123
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 4:41pm
  TO THE BLAZE, As usual the weekly story to trash the Vatican story. I refuse to comment to the stupidity of PAULZY comment but perhaps you should hire him to report on your future Vatican stories since he seems to have the same agenda as you!. I wipe the dust off my feet.
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 5:48pm
  @PLATO……………”they need to hire people who know a bit about Catholicism, ”
  
  Like your profile name suggest the combined the ideas of ancient Greek philosophy with Christianity. The is where Catholicism is today. “The Apotheosis of Saint Thomas Aquinas”, a 14th century painting by Francesco Traini, portrays Aquinas seated between Plato and Aristotle. A major figure in midieval scholasticism, Aquinas combined Aristotelian philosophy and Augustinian theology.
  “The School of Athens” a 16th century Vatican fresco by the Renaissance painter Raphael, includes the Greek philosophers Plato and Aristotle
  The Catholic Church combines the pagan Greek philosophy with the teachings of the bible and thats why you get false teachings like the trinity and the immortal soul which and hellfire.
  
  Colossians 2:8 Look out: perhaps there maybe someone who will carry you off as his prey through the philosophy and the empty deception according to the traditions of men, aacording to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ.
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 5:58pm
  @PLATO …….sorry didn’t proof read before I hit the reply button.
  
  Report this comment
- tonypro
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 6:03pm
  @Platonician
  I’ve learned more about the catholic church in the last 3 weeks, than I have my entire life, due to this popes resignation.
  
  I do believe there are Godly people in a multitude of Christian church off shoots, as well as bad in them that make their entire church look poorly. So don’t get me wrong, I’m sure there are good Godly people that are Catholics.
  
  However, I just don’t care for (believe differently) in any religious leader that claims to speak for God, or one of the more obvious differences being I believe the individual has a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, and that is to whom we need to confess our sins, not to a priest. A priest cannot absolve anyone from their sins, only Christ can.
  
  One thing is sure though, there will come a day we will all find out the truth.
  
  Report this comment
- Bearfoot
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 6:08pm
  When conversation’s devolves into arguments,hard feelings and anger, nothing good can come from it. – Proverbs 15:1,18, James 1:26
  
  Report this comment
- Platonician
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 6:30pm
  @Greenwood
  That proves that only the Church has the historical roots to understand mankind and its history and also why protestantism will inevitably devolve into ignorance and atheism.
  Christianity was revealed to men not to angels, men with a history and culture. Remember: Saint Paul the author of 13 of the book of the New Testament, was well versed in Greek Philosophy, so was his Greek disciple that composed the Gospel of John.
  The “sola scriptura” dogma is a fallacy used by depraved men like Judge Rutheford to gain power and enrich themselves.
  
  Report this comment
- Platonician
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 6:32pm
  @Greenwood
  That proves that only the Church has the historical roots to understand mankind and its history and also why protestantism will inevitably devolve into ignorance and atheism.
  Christianity was revealed to men not to angels, men with a history and culture. Remember: Saint Paul the author of 13 of the book of the New Testament, was well versed in Greek Philosophy, so was his Greek disciple that composed the Gospel of John.
  The “sola scriptura” dogma is a fallacy used by depraved men like Judge Rutheford to gain power and enrich themselves!
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 7:26pm
  PLATO…….The Apostle Paul was well versed in the Hebrew,Greek and Roman language but was also trained as a student of Gamaliel a teacher in the Pharisaic tradition when he was Saul. Acts 22:3
  
  Report this comment
- cgnick
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 8:12pm
  Jerry Sandusky is one of the leading candidates to replace Pope Benedict.
- hillbillyinny
  Posted on February 25, 2013 at 12:59am
  Boy, are a LOT of you “guys” going to be in shock AFTER the end times! In Heaven, as a Baptized Christian, you will participate in the “Wedding Feast of the Lamb (Jesus),” it will shock you that it looks more like a Catholic Liturgy (“Mass”), that how you guys stop the worship at your “Bible Services”!
  
  Yes, the Word will be declare and celebrated, God will be Worshiped in “Spirit and Truth” just as the Angels and Saints are today already doing! But then the “main part” of the Celebration (Eucharist = Thanksgiving) will begin and the Bride(s), who are The Church, will be presented to the Bridegroom, the Lamb of God, and the Wedding feast will be consumed for the first time in its entirety.
  
  Go visit a good Catholic Mass (say on a Sunday at a Cathedral with a Bishop presiding), and sit in the back if you must–you can be a spectator, no participation, not stand or kneel–and witness more than half of the book of Revelation being portrayed right in front of your eyes–”Holy, holy, holy. . . ,” “Lamb of God,” “Prayers of the Faithful,” Chanting of the Psalms, Declaring of the Word of God from the Old Testament (Covenant), Epistles and the Gospel, and then “breaking into song” because of the Love of God, His Son and the Holy Spirit, continuously throughout the Celebration.
  
  You will be watching The Church Jesus Himself founded, in Worship of their King and God in the Trinity!
  
  Report this comment
- hillbillyinny
  Posted on February 25, 2013 at 1:07am
  Want a real understanding of the Easter Story? Go to the Vigil Mass on Saturday eve before Easter. At a local Catholic Church it should start right after dark (~8:30 PM), or if you go to the Cathedral where the Bishop will celebrate, it will start around Midnight.
  
  Don’t be late. . . you will experience the kindling of the New Fire, portraying the Light of Christ coming into the world. You will be able to hold a candle portraying your own personal “Light of Christ,” and you will be able to remember and renew your Baptismal promises, something all of us should revisit and remember periodically.
  
  Now, be prepared, because the Bible readings for this evening are especially long and there are seven Old Covenant readings to choose between, usually doing at least three up to all seven. An Epistle will still be read and the GOSPEL of the Risen Lord will be DECLARED!.
  
  Come and see–where Jesus lives. . .
  
  Report this comment
- j1shal
  Posted on February 25, 2013 at 12:48pm
  Who is the 7th king…?
  
  Report this comment
The Big Mick
Posted on February 24, 2013 at 12:12am
Geese, looks like I missed a good e-barfight with OtherB and Greenie.
On the other hand it tain’t easy to figure out what it was about.
There’s a long and honored Christian Tradition of Rhetorical Grudge Matches fought for bloodpoints.
Read “Wide as the Waters” about the first English Translation of the Scriptures. THOSE homies went for the JUGULAR, and were more educated, erudite, and scholarly than most of us. MEAN sukkas, CUT you, at least with a well turned phrase. In the end, though, a bunch of em on both sides were martyred.
Still, at least with them there was Some understanding among innocent bystanders as to What Was at Stake. Not sure I picked that up with Greenie and TOB.
Got to hand it to em though, they were hammering away and not backing down.

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 12:31am
  @MICK……….maybe your right it’s almost closing time. I think I’ll skip last call and hit the road it’s getting late.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 10:59am
  JW’s, Mormons and the other cults, love to turn it into a bar fight when they realize they aren’t doing so good in the debate. You can only defend a lie for so long and then it starts to catch up with you. They will attack your character telling everyone you you’re not acting like a Christian for standing up to them, and unless you show up to their gun fight with a pillow, you are somehow less than a Christian. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt, gave it to Good Will.
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 1:14pm
  @OTHER……..”when they realize they aren’t doing so good in the debate. You can only defend a lie for so long and then it starts to catch up with you.”
  
  You got nothing. Your understanding of the scriptures is really very limited in my view. To believe in the “trinity” shows your lack of understanding who God really is. It is you that keeps on defending the first lie, of the immortal soul like the trinity is unbiblical. You ignore the scriptures that I use even if I use the NKJV.If you can’t answer you change the subject and resort to insults or misrepresent the NWT or WTS. If you want to have an honest debate which I doubt. Present you case with the scriptures. I work with a so called “born again” and he does the same thing keeps jumping from one subject to the next and thinks he somehow “won” the argument. I suggest you stick to one subject like the “trinity” or what ever you wish and show me from the scriptures how you come up with that interpretation instead of the name calling. Show me how Jesus is co-equal to God, or the Holy Spirit is a person, from the scriptures alone. You said yourself the trinity does not appear in the bible. If it were true the the One true God was part of a “triune god” the Apostles would have been more clear but that is not the case. God is a spirit himself and he is holy so are his faithful angelic sons. It would be expected that scripture identify such a person from all these other “holy spirits” with the definite article
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 1:45pm
  the definite article would be used with it in all cases where it is not called “God’s holy spirit” or is not modified by some similar expression. This would at least distinguish it as “The Holy Spirit”
  Personification does not prove personality . Wisdom is personified in Proverbs 1:20-33 and 8:1-36 and also in Matthew 11:19 and Luke 7:35 Sin is personified by Paul in Romans 5:14,17,21 also 6:12 and 7:8-11
  God’s holy spirit foretold in Joel 2:28 “I shall pour out my spirit” on every sort of flesh……
  Peter is quotting Joel’s prophesy in Acts 2:14-18 “I shall pour out some of my spirit …………
  Ecclesiastes 12:7 states that at death a person’s body returns to the dust, “and the spirit itself returns to the true God who gave it.” The person himself was never in heaven with God; what returns to God is therefore the vital force that enabled the person to live. He is not in heaven or suffering in hellfire such teachings slander God’s name. The concept of putting people through fire is detestable to God ;as we see in Jeremiah 7:31
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 4:06pm
  GREEN, I proved your definite article argument wrong weeks ago. Restating it here doesn’t make it any more right.
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 5:16pm
  @OTHER…..You prove nothing except in your own mind.Your understanding of the scriptures is really very limited in my view. To believe in the “trinity” shows your lack of understanding who God really is.
  2 Peter 3:16 ……..some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unsteady are twisting, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
  
  Proverbs 21:2 Every way of a man is upright in his own eyes, but Jehovah is making an estimate of hearts.
  21:4 Haughty eyes and an arrogant heart, the lamp of the wicked ones, are sin.
  
  Just like the Pharisees always trying to trick Jesus had an agenda, after they witnessed Jesus cure the man with a dried-up hand. They were watching to see whether he would cure the man on the sabbath, in order that they might accuse him.
  Mark 3:6 At that the Pharisees went out and immediately began holding council with party followers of Herod against him, in order to destroy him.
  He knew what was in their hearts because in verse 5 And after looking around upon them with indignation, being thoroughly grieved at the insensibility of their hearts, he said to the man: “Stretch out your hand” Always trying to find fault even to the point of teaming up with their enemy followers of Herod. “enemy of my enemy” What is really in your heart OTHER and what is your agenda ? Oh that would be your ministry of finding error in the church, I almost forgot. Silly me, because I thought it had something to do with Matthew 2
  
  Report this comment
- The Big Mick
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 5:33pm
  Oh, I get it, thought that might be it.
  Caught the fringes of this as that kind of debat.
  All I can say is that I’m glad you take your doctrine and exegesis seriously.
  C.S.Lewis says guys like you are actually closer to Christ at the center, BECAUSE it matters to you, then guys who blow it all off as not important. Maybe neither of you agree with that, but like I say, our forefathers took this stuff seriously. “If in anything you are otherwise minded,” Paul says, “God will reveal that to you also, only let us keep living to that standard to which we have attained.”
  In the end, you don’t answer to each other, but to Him, so you got’s to do what you got’s to do.
  Just to play with your head a bit though, Lewis also says there are 2 kinds of Good Friends. One is Passionate about the same things YOU think matter along the same lines you are. “A True Friend is like another me.” BUT, Lewis says, in some ways even better is The Friend who feels just as strongly as you do about the things you think are important, but feels exactly the opposite way about them!
  
  Report this comment
- Bearfoot
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 5:37pm
  Greenwood,
  
  Perhaps it would be better if no one talk or banter with ‘theotherberean’.
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 6:30pm
  @BEARFOOT…………you are right ,this is just going in circles. Matthew 7:6
  
  Report this comment
- Dismayed Veteran
  Posted on February 25, 2013 at 3:48pm
  Mick
  
  There is nothing like a good religous bar fight. No one gives one inch. Each are willing to use the same God to beat the crap out of the other guy. Oh well. Dolce et decorum est, pro Deus mori.
  
  Report this comment
The Big Mick
Posted on February 23, 2013 at 11:53pm
Blaze ain’t sayin so, but other reports suggest it may indeed be True that a Major Power Faction in the Vatican are Que Ear. Evidently the papers the butler stole let it out, and the Leaks Report just in confirms they had a regular sex ring going on and were being Blackmailed for it.

This would clear up a real mystery for me. I could NOT figure out WHY the RCC would TRANSFER Pederast (enough of the “pedophile” myth, ok? they weren’t doin little girls) Priests rather than simply shipping them to a Monastery with a Rule of Silence. What could POSSIBLY be more IMPORTANT to THE CHURCH, what could be more AT STAKE, then “taking care of the little ones.” It REEKED of Some kind of Institutional Mindset that simply refused to look at the PEDERASTY as WRONG! THAT had DEEP INSTITUTIONAL roots. That saw this as a Threat, almost, to DOCTRINE or the very NATURE of the Priesthood.
Almost a “well we all know a bunch of us are ‘that way’ and we look out after our own,” or even a MD Residency “we all had to do 72 without sleep” kind of “rite of passage institutional vibe. “Well WE all got molested as Alter Boys so they just have to go through what we all do.”
It had that “feel” of “Something even MORE important to us”, about it.
If there is a Cabal of Italian Que Ears at the Top, that WOULD explain it.

Report this comment
Log in to Reply Reply
barber2
Posted on February 23, 2013 at 9:53pm
Guess THEOTHER is just the night shift for VERCE and VANCE ! ? All Obama Trolls ..

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 9:57pm
  PMS must be a terrible thing to have to deal with perpetually Barber. Why don’t you attack my arguments rather than my character? Oh, you don’t have anything but insults?
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 10:03pm
  BARBER, you and GREEN are perfect examples of how people get caught up in the cults. You don’t question authority, and ultimately get caught up in the lies. You’re completely happy allowing someone else to think for you. I saw a statistic that said about 25% of the population is like that.
  
  None are so blind as those who “refuse” to see.
  
  So go ahead and spew, while I fulfill my ministry by pointing out error in “the church.”
  
  Report this comment
- Old Truckers
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 10:06pm
  You have no character! You are a pathetic excuse of a man, disgusting as you hide your wretched soul behind the Holy Word of God, insulting everybody here. Now go cry in your restroom so we don’t have to see you. pfft!
  
  Report this comment
- barber2
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 10:13pm
  Oh, and accusing me of PMS is not an insult ? Be gone…. Verce..Vance.. whatever… etc. Regarding your arguments, which were all really attacks , three words : pot..kettle..black. How sad that Obama can’t create a healthy economy so that you could have a REAL job ! But am sure you are the result of the Alinsky adage to ” let them do what they love to do.” For you it is posting angry comments on the Blaze.
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 10:22pm
  @THEOTHERTHESSALONIAN……..”None are so blind as those who “refuse” to see.”
  
  Matthew 7: 5 Hypocrite! First extract the rafter from your own eye, and then you will see clearly how to extract the straw in your brother’s eye.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 10:28pm
  BARBER, teacher, teach thyself. You’re the troll. You have no idea who or what I am. If it makes you feel good to call me an Obama troll then go right ahead. But that doesn’t change the fact that you don’t have any arguments of your own, because you don’t really have a clue what your religion teaches and consequently you can’t refute my arguments with rational ones of your own. Mindless insults are all you have. You are a sheeple.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 10:29pm
  GREEN, Teacher, teach thyself.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 10:51pm
  OLD, teacher, teach thyself.
  
  If you are insulted by the truth, what does that say about you?
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 10:52pm
  BARBER accusing me of being an Obama troll is not an insult?
  
  Teacher, teach thyself.
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 10:55pm
  @OTHER……………I have decided to leave this organization! A letter from a 1st century Christian.
  
  Hi, brothers and sisters. I wanted to inform everyone that I have decided to leave the congregation and thus this organization. Below are my reasons why.
  
  First of all, there is constant flip flopping. At first the apostles believe Jesus was setting up the Kingdom when he was on earth. Then they said it will come before John dies. In my studies of the scriptures I have concluded that it is not coming until the wheat and weeds grow together first. That is just now beginning to happen. The apostles are false prophets as they have totally disregarded what Jesus himself said. If they would quit trying to put forth their own interpretations and rely on Jesus they would not be flip flopping back and forth. The truth is the truth. And if you are not telling the truth you are lying. Why should I stay in an organization that lies and makes demon-inspired false prophecies.
  
  Then their is the thing about meat. First James and others say abstain from meat sacrificed to idols. Then Paul has the gaul to say, no, it is ok to eat that meat. Which is it, Paul and James? Can we eat the meat or can we not eat the meat. Since Jesus didn’t say anything about it why are rules being made by others like Paul and James (oh by the way, Jesus half brother. hmm . I wonder how he got in the position that he’s in. Can we say Nepotism?) I do not serve man, only God. When they start making rules a
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 10:58pm
  @OTHER………I remembered this letter there is more it wouldn’t all fit but you get the idea. It kind of reminded me of YOU after reading it again.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 11:02pm
  GREEN, you addressed this to me and that makes it a straw man. Those are not my arguments.
  
  But I understand your panic. Once you tell a lie you have to keep telling them.
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 11:19pm
  @OTHER……..”So go ahead and spew, while I fulfill my ministry by pointing out error in “the church.”
  
  Is that what the ministry is all about? Kind of like the Westboro Baptist Church ha.
  
  Matthew 24:10 Then, also, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another.11 And many false prophets will arise and mislead many;12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness the love of the greater number will cool off.13 But he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.14 And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 11:27pm
  GREEN, why don’t you address my arguments rather than attacking my character?
  
  And teacher, teach thyself. Don’t tell me JW’s don’t go door to door with an agenda to catch unlearned Christians off guard. Then you twist the Scriptures into theological pretzels to support C.T. Russel’s false prophecies and doctrines. So you can take all of your self righteous baloney and stuff it into that sausage you’re trying to sell everyone.
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 11:36pm
  @OTHER………”Once you tell a lie you have to keep telling them.”
  
  Like the first lie? At this the serpent said to the woman: “You positively will not die” Genesis 3:4
  The lie to cover up the lie. I get it. Ecclesiastes 3:19-21
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 11:40pm
  GREEN I was talking about the lies I’ve pointed out that the Watchtower tells “you,” then without finding out for yourself if they are true or not, you go and spread them to as many people as you can, thinking you’re doing the Lord’s work when in fact it is Satan who you are serving by such actions.
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 11:54pm
  @OTHER……..”JW’s don’t go door to door with an agenda to catch unlearned Christians off guard”
  
  Tell what would be the agenda? money? they never ask for money in fact they offer free bible studies to anyone who wants one.They do it out of love for God and our neighbors. That is what we all should do, isn’t it? John 17:3
  
  Report this comment
- KickinBack
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 12:10am
  No use arguing Barber. If theotherberean is an actual Berean, then you’re in for a long haul. Just another ant-Catholic sect who believe they’re right, and everyone else is wrong.
  
  Might as well try convincing a Muslim that Allah is beardless. Might be more entertaining as well.
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 12:10am
  @OTHER………….1 John 4:1 Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world.
  
  With over 41,000 different denominations in the world it must be very comforting to know that you have the only TRUTH. Maybe you should start your own ministry. OH! that’s right correcting and pointing out the errors everyone else.
  
  Report this comment
- Xanderson
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 12:16am
  Poor sad trolls!
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 12:25am
  @OTHER……….I’m saying the “first lie” is what you build much of what you spew. The lie to cover up the lie. Read Genesis 3:4 and then Ecclesiastes 3:19-21 9:5-10 and tell me how you get the immortal soul from that?
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 11:44am
  GREEN your agenda is to promote lies, false prophecies and the false gospel of C.T. Russell. You quote 1 John 4:1 but you don’t follow it, laying burdens on others that you don’t follow yourself. That’s the definition of a Pharisee.
  
  I never claimed to have the ONLY truth, nor even to have “the” truth. The problem is that you have failed to prove me wrong.
  
  I’m not closed minded, you are. My doctrines and beliefs aren’t set in stone as yours are, by non-scholars and false prophets who demand that I MUST believe as they do. Teacher, teach thyself.
  
  Your Genesis 3:4 and Ecclesiastes 3:19-21 9:5-10 arguments are the type of wrangling and theological pretzel twisting that JW’s like to pull at the door. Most Christians understand the basic Gospel message, but few actually read their Bibles and consequently are not learned and are taken aback by such questions which are designed to confuse and confound. None of those Scriptures reveal anything about the WTS doctrine of “soul sleep” neither do they indicate that only 144,000 JW’s will go to heaven. Eccl teaches that man and animal share the same fate in death. The WT reads into the text.
  
  KICKIN, Of course I believe I’m right. Don’t you? straw man. Can you mount an argument that proves me wrong, or are condescending remarks all you have to offer?
  
  X who’s the troll now? My comment to KICKIN applies to you too.
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 2:17pm
  @OTHER……..”Scriptures reveal anything about the WTS doctrine of “soul sleep” neither do they indicate that only 144,000 JW’s will go to heaven. Eccl teaches that man and animal share the same fate in death. The WT reads into the text.
  
  As I’ve already said many times, I never said only JW’s go to heaven and they don’t claim to be the only ones that make up that number, your words.
  The doctrine of soul sleep? Jesus said to his disciples “Lazarus our friend has gone to rest, but I am journeying there to awaken him from sleep”………….Jesus said to them outspokenly:”Lazarus has died” John 11:11,14-44 He was dead or in a state of unconsciousness as we see in Ecclesiastes 9:5 where it says the dead are conscious of nothing at all.
  Ecclesiastes 3:19 says they all have but one spirit, [ God's spirit which keeps them alive] so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity.
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 2:36pm
  @OTHER…….you say “Most Christians understand the basic Gospel message, but few actually read their Bibles and consequently are not learned and are taken aback by such questions which are designed to confuse and confound.”
  
  Why do you think they go door to door inthe first place because very few actually read their Bibles. The questions are not “designed to confuse and confound” like yourself, but are designed to seak out honest hearted ones who want to know what the bible really teaches. (John 17:3)
  Romans 10:14-15 How will they call on him in whom they have no faith? How, in turn,will they put faith in him who has not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? 15 How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent forth? Just as it is written: “How comely are the feet of those who declare good news of good things.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 4:10pm
  GREEN, I took your soul sleep argument away and exposed many other WT heretical doctrines in this thread: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/18/could-pope-benedict-xvi-be-put-on-trial-over-the-catholic-sex-abuse-scandal/#comment-4921961
  
  Report this comment
barber2
Posted on February 23, 2013 at 9:18pm
Another thought : Is confronting the truth really ” lashing out ?”

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 9:54pm
  Yes. Note that Jesus “lashed out” at the Pharisees and look what he did to the money changers in the temple. Oh my! Pure hate, by your standards.
  
  Report this comment
- barber2
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 10:25pm
  OTHER TROLL; I was referring to the headline which said that the Vatican ” lashed out.” You, obviously, have your own agenda/ interpretation going on here AND you seem to require the last word. Maybe that is part of how you get your salary ? That is also so much like the mob / MIC check / Glitter bomb tactic we have come to expect from the Obama Left : Bullies all.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 10:58pm
  BARBER again, you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. All you are is insults.
  
  Why don’t those of you who are attacking my character and my motives, offer rebuttals to my arguments?
  
  Because you’re sheep and don’t really know what it teaches, that’s why and consequently when someone who does know points it out to you and you don’t like it, rather than find out for yourself you lash out in anger. Kill the messenger.
  
  You’re nothing but mindless sheep.
  
  Report this comment
- barber2
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 11:48pm
  THEOTHER: The old ” mindless sheep ” rhetoric. And you are just a far left robot who keeps repeating that endless same old stuff from the Left. Knew that this topic would draw the Lefty flies like some stuff draws flies. There is no argument. No logic. There is nothing that could “change” your ideas nor move you ” forward” because you are all brainwashed Far Left ideologues: VERCE. VANCE. DORA. WANGO. THEOTHER. JUSTIM. and the many new names you will create here in just another standard Far Left MIC check assault – this one on the BLAZE . Night. night , comrades…
  
  Report this comment
- Xanderson
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 12:29am
  Hi Barber2– of course the poor sad trolls want the last word! Their talking points (in this case quotes from, “Hating on Catholics for Dummies”) are disseminated each day and they hit the conservative sites really hard because we scare the living **** out of them. We make sense and THAT is not allowed. I have learned a lesson tonight and that is to ignore them because they obviously get off on getting us to respond to their hate. I’ve read enough of your posts over the last few months to know that you are a thoughtful, patriotic, faithful American and you are therefore targeted by trolldom on The Blaze! Keep up the good work, friend :^)
  
  Report this comment
- barber2
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 8:47am
  XANDER: Thank you for the kind word. Ignoring Trolls and talking ” around ” them is good advice since they are only sent here to bait , annoy, and mock us .
  
  Report this comment
- mycomet123
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 10:55am
  @BARBER2, Don’t you know by now anything the Vatican states is considered “lashing out”, but if it was any other institution it would be stated more politically correct. Unfortunately the Blaze has their own agenda of attacking the Catholic Church. Sad but TRUE! I agree with letting the trolls have the last word, some people are so blinded by pride they will argue that their correct even after than have realized their wrong. God Bless!
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 11:49am
  COMET, Teacher, teach thyself
  
  Report this comment
- snooop1e
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 12:25pm
  THEOTHERBEREAN – Writes “Jesus “lashed out” at the Pharisees and look what he did to the money changers in the temple.”
  
  You are not Jesus. Your words are not charitable or Christ like. You’ve said the following,
  
  1. You’re probably not smart enough to get it.
  
  2. You’re nothing but mindless sheep
  
  3. You sound like a paranoid schizo
  
  4. You are a hypocrite
  
  5. Bitch, bitch, bitch.That time of the month?
  
  6. You don’t have a clue, do you.
  
  7. Doesn’t he get something like 72, 12 year old alter boys to pick up candles for him…?
  
  8. When did they let you out? I guess you won’t be hanging around the middle schools anymore, huh.
  
  9. I’ve taught you everything I know and you STILL don’t know anything.
  
  10. Kind of a drag for you being schooled by an idiot, huh
  
  11. This is what morning cartoons have done to your brain….Mush.
  
  12. Someone has to burn in hell. Thanks for stepping up!
  
  13. I never did pay any mind to you. Why have a battle of wits with an unarmed person?
  
  14. So stuff your “doctrines of men” attitude.
  
  15. PMS must be a terrible thing to have to deal with perpetually
  
  16. You’re proof that asshats can talk
  
  The Holy Spirit never uses profanity and insults, your words are not of the Lord.
  
  James 1:12
  If anyone considers himself religious and yet DOES NOT KEEP A TIGHT REIGN ON HIS TONGUE, he deceives himself and his religion is WORTHLESS.
  
  John 5:39
  You diligently study the Scriptures becaus
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 12:38pm
  Gosh SNOOP, I might be flattered, but you are clearly on crack.
  
  Report this comment
- snooop1e
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 7:09pm
  THEOTHERBEREAN – You wrote that I must be on crack. I’ll take that as a compliment. When the people saw Jesus disciples filled with the Holy Spirit they also accused them of being mad or drunk. As followers of Christ we are called to be in the world but not of the world. That being said I’ve also found that whenever someone cannot logically defend their position they resort to Ad hominem attacks or insults. Oddly enough you have a tendency to accuse people of attacking your character and not simply defending their position. I don’t know you if realize it but doing this doesn’t increase peoples confidence in you it just makes you look confused. As I’ve said in the past my posts are not for your edification as you have made up your mind that you are right and anyone who disagrees with you is not one of the elect. My posts are for level headed, fair minded people who simply want to consider all of the information and who are seeking a deeper relationship with Jesus Christ. To everyone in here who has been following the discussion I encourage you to continue to pray and do your research. The man made doctrines of Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura were introduced over 1500 years after Jesus established His church and they are utterly absent from all historical writings not to mention they are not found anywhere in scripture. I love you theotherberean, even when you attack me and insult me, makes me think I just might be getting through to you : )
  
  PAX CHRISTI
  
  Report this comment
SamIamTwo
Posted on February 23, 2013 at 8:35pm
Now who in their right mind pays attention to what the media says?

We all know that there are only 30k people posting under articles with 20 different SN. LOL

Moo on baby.

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- Verceofreason
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 12:07am
  Watch it!
  The vatican swings a mean purse.
  
  Report this comment
- Walkabout
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 8:02am
  Yup, Verce has a least 2 SN.
  
  Where is Anonymous when you need them?
  
  People like Glennda/Wango/Pantloadin/Sensei, JZS/Meteors, Monicne/Encinom/Kregneva/Sleazy Hippo always trying to play a real life game of Reversi/Othello.
  
  Psychologists study this phenomena. It works to an extent, which is why the aforementioned morons try it.
  
  Report this comment
Dudley Do-Right
Posted on February 23, 2013 at 7:56pm
I’ll withhold judgement until these “unsourced” reports can be verified. But isn’t it interesting that la Repubblica was “Born as a radical/socialist newspaper,[3] it has since kept a centre-left political.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Repubblica

Here’s what la Repubblica’s owner, Carlo De Benedetto said in 1993

“I was considered in my country to be a Communist because I said once that democracy wasn’t democracy unless you have a possibility of change. In my country the Communists had a third of the vote so people concluded change meant change to the Communists,’ he explains. ‘Also I am the biggest shareholder in La Repubblica, which in Italy was considered left-wing and pro-Communist. So I was considered to be against the regime.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/italys-maverick-faces-toughest-fight-despite-huge-problems-carlo-de-benedetti-is-calm-gail-counsell-writes-1499434.html

Maybe it is true but until la Repubblica reveals these sources, I’ll take the Pope at his words.

Report this comment
Log in to Reply Reply
PIGSWILLNEVERFLY
Posted on February 23, 2013 at 7:49pm
@THEOTHERBEREAN – you may enjoy Michael Rood. He’s on youtube. Check out the:
Jonah code or Shabbat Night Live http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPLvMDrN6c – you will need to forward (slide ahead) 25 minutes to start the video. The guest is Rico Cortes. All of Michael Rood’s videos are great. He teaches real history and facts of the Torah and the Renewed Covenant (new testament) He is a Jewish US Marine with a home in Israel on the Galilee and also North Carolina. He has hundreds of teachings on youtube and a website http://www.aroodawakening.tv and michaelrood.tv He teaches scripture…the best I’ve found available today.

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 8:16pm
  PIGS I get an error for the first link and the second won’t play video unless I enable Java. Where can I find a statement of faith? Are they orthodox Christian beliefs?
  
  Report this comment
hi
Posted on February 23, 2013 at 6:26pm
Here is email:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/02/22/priests-in-panties.html
Log in to ReplyReply
- SonOfThunder
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 6:45pm
  That is the tip of the iceberg. Rome and the Vatican is ripe with homosexual activity.
  
  Report this comment
- The Big Mick
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 11:58pm
  like I say, Boanerges, Que Ears running the RCC would explain a lot about the Pederast Priest Scandal.
  
  Report this comment
MBA
Posted on February 23, 2013 at 6:13pm
That’s what happens when the news is left to the American media. lies, innuendoes, and misleading statements.

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 6:18pm
  No lies are necessary if your intention is to expose the heretical doctrines and “traditions of men” taught by the RCC.
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 8:59pm
  @THEOTHERBEREAN………..is that like the other white meat? The Bereans referred in Acts 17 had noble character and received the word with readiness of mind. You sir do not reflect that attitude. I think you are more like the Jews fromThessalonica who when they learned Paul was preaching in Beroea they came to incite and agitate the masses. That’s kind of what you do on this site.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 9:19pm
  GREEN you’re just upset because I don’t believe the lies and unBiblical and heretical doctrines the WT teaches, with readiness of mind. That’s because I “search the Scriptures daily” and your words cannot be found there.
  
  Everyone knows what it means when you attack my character rather than addressing my arguments.
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 9:31pm
  @ OTHER………Everyone here already knows your character and your arguments.
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 9:40pm
  Acys 17:10 Immediately by night the brothers sent both Paul and Silas out to Be‧roe′a, and these, upon arriving, went into the synagogue of the Jews.11 Now the latter were more noble‐minded than those in Thes‧sa‧lo‧ni′ca, for they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so.12 Therefore many of them became believers, and so did not a few of the reputable Greek women and of the men.13 But when the Jews from Thes‧sa‧lo‧ni′ca learned that the word of God was published also in Be‧roe′a by Paul, they came there also to incite and agitate the masses.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 9:40pm
  GREEN. Good. Hopefully they can see that the WT and you are both lying for Jesus
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 9:44pm
  NKJV of Acts 17:Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. 12 Therefore many of them believed, and also not a few of the Greeks, prominent women as well as men. 13 But when the Jews from Thessalonica learned that the word of God was preached by Paul at Berea, they came there also and stirred up the crowds.
  
  Report this comment
- Old Truckers
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 9:53pm
  Wasn’t it established here on TheBlaze a while back that “theotherberean” had his name changed to “theotherthessalonian” ?
  I think that happened. hahha
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 10:05pm
  OLD, you and GREEN both think a lot of things that have nothing to do with reality.
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 10:16pm
  @THEOTHERTHESSALONIAN…………..”I don’t believe the lies and unBiblical and heretical doctrines the WT teaches, with readiness of mind. That’s because I “search the Scriptures daily”
  
  John 5:39 YOU are searching the Scriptures, because YOU think that by means of them YOU will have everlasting life; and these are the very ones that bear witness about me.40 And yet YOU do not want to come to me that YOU may have life.41 I do not accept glory from men,42 but I well know that YOU do not have the love of God in YOU.43 I have come in the name of my Father,
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 10:37pm
  @OLD TRUCKER………”name changed to “theotherthessalonian”
  
  I think that name suits him just fine………..Thanks Trucker
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 10:59pm
  GREEN, you are a hypocrite. Teacher, teach thyself.
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 11:06pm
  @OTHERTHESSALONIAN………….”Teacher, teach thyself.”
  
  You’re starting to get a little repetitive now.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 11:21pm
  GREEN, how does it feel?
  
  Teacher, teach thyself.
  
  Report this comment
2329nfld
Posted on February 23, 2013 at 5:43pm
Everyone needs to stop judging Catholics because what of what some priests did! They are HUMANS! We are all full of sins and even priests (even thought the should know better) are still humans. Its going to happend and it will always happen, that the reason for Jesus (we need to walk his ways and eliminate the sins). For me Catholics is the true religion…..is the one that goes back to the most early christians, the original CHURCH (2000 + yrs). I just cant see how anyone could just say that the truth comes from a religion that started in the 17th centry or so. Why not wait for the future religion that could appear in the future.
Shame on anyone that left the Catholic church because of what some humans do. You should know better.

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 6:01pm
  Your facts are a little skewed. The Christian religion has been around since Apostolic times but the Roman Church never came into existence until the 3rd century.
  
  I left the RCC because it teaches the doctrines of men rather than the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
- quiltgal
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 6:41pm
  @berean
  
  What do you mean by “doctrines of men”?
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 7:11pm
  QUILT, The RCC holds it’s traditions in higher esteem than the Word of God.
- quiltgal
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 7:36pm
  Berean
  
  You say, “… the RCC holds it’s traditions in higher esteem than the Word of God.” Please explain.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 8:22pm
  Well, Mariology, the Eucharist, the priesthood are all the doctrines of men, and are not taught in the Bible, nor is there any reason to believe that these doctrines were taught by the first church.
  
  I highly recommend a book written by an Evangelical and a Catholic entitled “Roman Catholics and Evangelicals” -Norman Geisler and Ralph McKenzie. The book points out exactly where and why we agree and disagree.
  
  Report this comment
- 2329nfld
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 8:32pm
  Everything you know from the bible is because of the RCC. Before most people could read (1800′s) all people had was the CHURCH. All christians are a branch of the RCC.
- 2329nfld
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 8:54pm
  @berean The Eucharist is doctrine of men!
  
  When Jesus says that the bread is his body and the wine is his blood – IT IS! Why you question Jesus?
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 8:56pm
  2329, nope, not even close. The RCC wasn’t around until the 3rd century AD.
  
  Report this comment
- 2329nfld
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 9:00pm
  you dont beleive in the last supper?
  
  Report this comment
- 2329nfld
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 9:04pm
  @berean
  RCC wrote the new testament! Your not close…your so lost is not funny. Unless you read the old testament. Which you should.
  
  Report this comment
- barber2
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 9:17pm
  Verce…Vance…THEOTHER You are probably confusing the Council Of Nicaea with the origins of the Catholic ( Christian ) Church . That is when the doctrines, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, were codified . Considering the East and West divisions of the church and the lack of internet / communication in those early hundreds of years, that council was necessary. Man codified / made ? Yes. But always under the guidance of the Holy Spirit as taught by Christ as in Pentecost.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 9:25pm
  2329, no, the RCC did not write the NT. That statement is about as silly as it gets.
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 9:27pm
  @2329NFLD…………”the doctrines of men”
  
  Don’t let THEOTHER fool you he also believes in the doctrines of men. He believes in the “trinity” and many of the tenets of the Catholic Church which he just can’t seem to let go from his former years as a Catholic. The other “Berean” whether he is now protestant or a “Home Baptist” I don’t know. He is the other berean because Bereans or Christadelphians or Berean/Christadephians deny the trinity doctrine.I have asked him several times if he celebrates Christmas or Easter or St.Patrick’s day or St. Valentine’s day but I get no answer. Maybe he will answer here what traditions of men he follows or which of the over 41,000 offshoots of the RCC around the world he belongs to.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 9:29pm
  BARBER, nope, I’m not confused at all. It seems you are. The only way we can truly know if doctrine came to us “under the guidance of the Holy Spirit” is if it agrees with Scripture.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 9:39pm
  GREEN, teacher, teach thyself. I took all of your Watchtower arguments away, so I guess the only thing left for you to do is attack my character. As you are instructed to do. I have the CD.
  
  So go ahead and call me unChristianlike for the same infraction you commit yourself, and expose yourself for the intellectually dishonest bigot that you are.
  
  Catholics and Evangelicals actually agree on many doctrines. But only the ones which can be found in the Bible. The doctrine of the Trinity is most certainly in the Bible, although it doesn’t use that word. But then again, the NT doesn’t use the name Jehovah but that doesn’t stop the WTS from adding to the Scriptures to support the doctrines of men, by inserting it there. So again, teacher teach thyself. You’re just angry because my argument prove you wrong.
  
  And I did answer your question, before, no, I don’t celebrate any of the secular holidays you mentioned, so you can’t use that ruse.
  
  Report this comment
- barber2
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 9:47pm
  THEOTHER: I have noticed that all of our arrogant Lefty Trolls always accuse anyone who does not agree with them of being ” confused.” Arrogance has its blessings !
  
  Report this comment
- Greenwood
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 10:04pm
  OTHER…….”But then again, the NT doesn’t use the name Jehovah ”
  
  So let me get this right you believe that the correct translation for instance when quoting Psalms110:1 in the “NT” Matthew 22:44 Mark 12:36 Luke20:42 and Acts 2:34 is “The LORD said to my Lord sit at my right hand. Till I make your enemies your footstool is an accurate translation? Jesus when quotting from the Hebrew scriptures would not have use that name. I’m sure he would have had no problem at all using it or pronouncing it. Jesus says in John 17:26 I have made your name known to them, was he wrong in making that claim?
  
  Are you saying Christmas and Easter are secular Holidays? Just aking to make sure.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 10:09pm
  BARBER have you tried crushing up a couple midol’s and snorting them? That might help your PMS.
  
  Still attacking my character because you aren’t smart enough to rebut my arguments? Tsk Tsk I keep hearing that’s not very Christian-like. But then again, neither is Mary worship, or denouncing the Deity of Christ.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 10:19pm
  GREEN, we have been over this to ad nauseum, and regardless of how many times you ask, Jesus did not use the name Jehovah as far as we “know.” None of the MSS use it. He may have used it when quoting the OT but we don’t know that and besides, those who quote “Him” do not use it. That doesn’t stop the WT from wrongfully and dishonestly inserting it in the NT for no other reason to support the doctrine that Jesus is not Jehovah.
  
  As far as I am concerned, yes, Christmas and Easter are secular holidays based on pagan traditions. I “celebrate” meaning I acknowledge and honor, the Birth, Life, Death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ, every day.
  
  Report this comment
- DLV
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 11:27pm
  Oh please people stop arguing. You’re all Christians. As long as you believe Christ is lord and savior you’re all going to be seeing each other in heaven. As for the differences play nice and debate politely
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 11:35pm
  I think people come here to argue, no?
  
  Report this comment
- DLV
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 11:46pm
  Theother- unfortunately some. I come here for polite for those who disagree with me. So this is a question to all of you if Jesus saw this argument what would he think?
  
  Report this comment
- Xanderson
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 12:17am
  Poor sad troll!
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 11:55am
  DLV well, I’m sure in your mind Jesus would think whatever “you” think he would think is right, and everyone else would be wrong.
  
  Right?
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 11:56am
  X teacher, teach thyself.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 12:04pm
  DLV, I just noticed that you said we’re all Christians. I disagree. If you define Jesus Christ as someone other than that of the Bible, how can you say you are a “Christian?” Or that you follow “Christ?”
  
  Can I still be considered a Catholic if I denounce the real Mary by defining her as, perhaps, a Muslim girl who never had children, and then venerate her instead of your Mary?
  
  Can Mormons believe that Joseph Smith is a woman born in Kentucky in 1945 and still call themselves LDS?
  
  Are we really ALL Christians?
  
  Report this comment
- DLV
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 5:21pm
  Theother- Actually no, it wouldn’t be whatever I think it is whatever the bible says. Stop doing that. I think Jesus would be disgusted at this whole thread based on several events the new testament. Jesus says plenty on anger and when its justfied and when it is not. This isn’t one of those times. Rhetoric like that you guys are engaging in has killed tons of people’s throughout the centuries.
  
  “If you define Jesus Christ as someone other than that of the Bible, how can you say you are a “Christian?” Or that you follow “Christ?”
  
  In the bible it says that if you put your faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and savior you’re going to heaven. From what I gather, all of you agree on that, it’s the other stuff that you’re after each other on. So this whole thing you said right here is completely irrelevant. If I somehow missed the part where Barber, Green and Old say they don’t believe in Christ as savior then that’s my fault. Until then, all this arguing is just pointless.
  
  That being said, I do agree that praying to Mary and what not is blasphemy but there are Catholics who disagree with some of the official stances of the Catholic church and don’t follow line to line. but again, the requirement is faith in Christ. Works are just evidence of that. So if you pray to Mary but then claim to believe in Christ as lord and savior, then that’s evidence that you’re not really a Christian. Pretty simple.
  
  Report this comment
- snooop1e
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 11:53pm
  theotherberean – wrote the rcc “never came into existence until the 3rd century”. How can you say something never happened until? Makes no sense. Also you are wrong the first use of the word ‘Catholic’ in the extant literature we possess from the Early Church is that which we find in one of the epistles of Ignatius of Antioch…Ignatius of Antioch (martyred @ 110 AD): Wherever the bishop appears, there let the congregation be; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the catholic church. See J. B. Lightfoot and J. R. Harmer, eds. and trans., The Apostolic Fathers: Greek Texts and English Translations of Their Writings, 2nd. ed., The Letters of Ignatius, To the Smyrnaeans, Chapter 8.2 (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1992), pp. 189 & 191.Greek text: Ὅπου ἂν φανῇ ὁ ἐπίσκοπος, ἐκεῖ τὸ πλῆθος ἔστω, ὥσπερ ὅπου ἂν ᾖ Χριστὸς Ἰησοῦς, ἐκεῖ ἡ καθολικὴἐκκλησία. See J. B. Lightfoot and J. R. Harmer, eds. and trans., The Apostolic Fathers: Greek Texts and English Translations of Their Writings, 2nd. ed., The Letters of Ignatius, To the Smyrnaeans, Chapter 8.2 (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1992), p. 190.
  
  Report this comment
quiltgal
Posted on February 23, 2013 at 5:40pm
Most of the media are no longer trustworthy. Thank God for Glenn Beck. Based on what we are seeing from so-called journalists in this country, I have to agree with the Vatican. The media are probably making this up.

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- SonOfThunder
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 6:08pm
  The foreign press is right and much better than the MSM here. The Vatican and the pope does the bidding for Satan. Catholicism is a cult plain and simple. It is all true.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 6:31pm
  Personally I don’t trust anyone but Jesus Christ. Men are liars. All of them. Ps 62:9, 116:11
  
  Report this comment
- Old Truckers
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 7:28pm
  Men are liars. All of them.
  
  All of them, except THEOTHER, of course. He always tells the truth.
  
  Sorry, I couldn’t resist.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 8:28pm
  OLD, As the Mormons do, JW’s will use any excuse to attack the character of someone such as myself, who is knowledgeable enough to recognize and point out unBiblical teachings. Then you use that alleged “failed” character to argue that such a person should not be believed. (regardless of the facts) This is intellectually dishonest. It is also a straw man argument. It is also blatantly lying to hide the hypocrisy and heresy taught by the cults, at the expense of the simple truths found in Jesus’ Words. And you can ignore that truth if you like, but those not caught up in the lies and false teachings of the cults, can easily see the truth. You guys can only dupe the unlearned Christians. Bummer, huh.
  
  Report this comment
- Old Truckers
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 8:54pm
  theother,
  
  Your own words convict you.
  
  Report this comment
- barber2
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 10:00pm
  SON: ” it is all true.” Ouch. Sounds so familiar. Are you merely our infamous YOURSE ? Have you stolen the poor Troll’s Identity ? We know it has lost its ” sense” and now has it also lost its identity message ?! Oh, the horrors…
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 10:32pm
  BARBER, I don’t believe I’ve ever seen you say anything on this board that wasn’t insulting. Then you chide others for that same infraction. Teacher, teach thyself!
  
  Report this comment
chips1
Posted on February 23, 2013 at 5:39pm
Obama controls the media and he hates religion. The muslim cult is his bag. That is, if you don’t count Michelle.

Report this comment
Log in to Reply Reply
ktywck
Posted on February 23, 2013 at 5:17pm
I have no idea what the truth is – I am a former 50+ year cradle Catholic – but, the condoned pedophilian was the final straw for me. We always hear about the gold & riches of the vatican. I am sure they have soup kitchens around the back of the Sistine Chapel, but I never hear about them or see photos of all the homeless and the downtrodden that the vatican serves. I believe that Jesus Christ was sent by the Father and died for my sins. I accept Him as my Personal Savior. Organized religion is full of man-made rules and governed by our earthly imperfection. There have been many holy men & women in the church throughout the ages . . . . Catholic – the one true church? Only God will be the judge. . .

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- Magyar
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 5:44pm
  And regrettably the Catholic church has a bunch of “special rules” and ‘social justice’ attitudes that govern church procedure. I understand your disappointment and subsequent departure but there are wonderful churches with Pastors and congregants who seek the true word through scripture— Come on take another look!
  
  Report this comment
- SonOfThunder
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 6:02pm
  Being an ex catholic of over 40 years, the Catholic Church is ripe with homosexuals in Rome. I have an relative who was in seminary in Rome and he left the Catholic Church because he said Rome and the Vatican was full of homosexual activity. It is rampant in Rome. How many effeminate priests do you know? I know a lot from growing up in the church. Pedophilia is a symptom of homosexuality.
  
  Run from that church Catholics and repent and put your trust in Jesus alone. Not in your indulgences, idol worship of your saints and Mary, confession to a priest may a pedophiles, infant baptism for salvation, sacraments, last rites, and on and on. It is all works.
  
  Jesus said you must be born again to enter the kingdom. Repent and trust in Jesus.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 6:03pm
  MAG I’ve been looking for a church like that for years. Can you name one?
  
  Report this comment
- Blacktooth
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 6:03pm
  ktywck,
  
  Nice comment.
  It seems logical to me that since there is only one true God, and that he sent his only-begotten Son to be a propitiatory sacrifice for all of us, there should be only one true identifiable worldwide congregation in these ‘last days’.
  It has to be a unified global congregation to fulfill Matthew 24:14 as local churches are not capable of preaching on a global scale.
  So we have to ask, which congregation is the true way?
  
  Christ Jesus made known (at lease partially) how to recognize true Christians in Matthew 7:13-23, 13:34-35
  Our task is to seek and find these Christians.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 6:09pm
  BLACK that church you speak of certainly is not the Jehovah’s Witnesses. The WTS teaches the doctrines of men, as the RCC does.
  
  Report this comment
- Blacktooth
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 6:30pm
  ktywck,
  
  If you want to do some research on this, and find some real information, you are free to examine:
  
  http://www.jw.org
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 7:16pm
  Why look to a man made organization and a false prophet that teaches the doctrines of men, such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses or the Mormon Church, when we already have the Word of God which can be found in the 66 books of the Bible?
  
  And notice they won’t engage you in a rational discussion if you are capable of exposing them for the wolves in sheeps clothing that they are.
  
  Report this comment
- barber2
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 8:55pm
  THEOTHER is a Troll. He is not looking for a church. He is looking for a target. Pray for him ( her / whatever )
  
  Report this comment
- John655
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 10:14pm
  @ KTYWCK
  
  so 50 + years and you didn’t bother to learn a thing about your faith? How about the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist? How about how the Church is the bride of Christ? How about the priesthood? You give all this up because of evil in the Church? Need I remind you that Jesus had evil within his inner group? You think that was an accident? Or do you suppose that Jesus was showing us that evil will always be among us here on Earth? Even within his Holy Church. If you could learn these basics truths over 50 years then good riddance to you, we don’t need people like you calling themselves Catholic. And good luck on judgement day, I’ll be praying for you.
  
  Carry on
  
  Report this comment
- John655
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 2:51am
  Correction:
  
  If you couldn’t learn these basics…
  
  Report this comment
- ktywck
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 9:36am
  Wow y’all!! (&John 655) I am not renouncing any religion . . . I was educated by the nuns and priests. I gave my life to Jesus as a small child and have renewed that act of faith daily in my adult life. As I grew older I became more of a seeker – I found my home in a congregation that praised God with their worship and whose pastor spoke from the Bible and touched my heart at each and every service. Once I found that, and a new understanding that The Bible is God’s Word & blueprint for our lives; wild horses couldn’t keep me from joining in the praise and worship to my LORD and Savior each and every Sunday. I no longer pray to anyone but Jesus, who intercedes with the Father for us. I am led by The Spirit in my daily life. There was so much that was good in the Catholic church – but, I never felt the presence of the LORD speaking through my pastor until I sought out another church home . . . I still try to attend Catholic services from time to time . . .at the last one they made those studying to be Catholics leave the service before the consecration . . . Jesus was INCLUSIVE, yet in the CC the abundance of manmade rules tend to EXCLUDE instead. We have moved & attend a different denomination church now. Guess what? The pastor teaches from the Bible each and every Sunday, the church is vibrant & growing. He has redeemed me & “Never once, did I ever walk alone . . . He is Faithful.”
  
  Report this comment
- Locked
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 10:09am
  @Sonofthunder
  
  “Pedophilia is a symptom of homosexuality.”
  
  How do you figure?
  
  Report this comment
- John655
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 12:57pm
  @ Ktywck
  
  Again you demonstrate your ignorance of the catholic faith. We are not just some denomination. We are the one true Church. And you just can’t join us willy-nilly. You have to go through RCIA where you are taught about the faith before you can fully join the faith. To allow people who have not yet fully joined the faith to participate in the Eucharist which is the most sacred aspect of our faith would be watering down our faith to say anyone can receive the body and blood of Jesus without recoginizing it. And woo th those people. 1 Cor 1:29 “For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgement on himself.” Try reading the Catechism. You were apparently sleeping through Mass for 50 years.
  
  Carry -on
  
  Report this comment
- snooop1e
  Posted on February 25, 2013 at 12:43am
  @thesunoftheotherbereanthunder – If you could show where in scripture Jesus or the Apostles or ANY Prophet ever used the words FAITH ALONE or SCRIPTURE ALONE that might help. Simply attacking other faiths does not prove that what you believe is true. It’s biblical truth that the words FAITH ALONE and SCRPTURE ALONE were NEVER spoken by Jesus or any of the Apostles or the Prophets nor are they recorded anywhere until1500 years AFTER the last Apostle died when Martin Luther “revealed” them after receiving what he says was a vision while sitting on the toilet. This is historical fact recorded in Luther’s writings, he actuall bragged about it quite often. So lets have it, chapter and verse where Jesus or any Apostle or any Prophet EVER spoke the words FAITH ALONE or SCRPTURE ALONE?
  
  Report this comment
- ktywck
  Posted on February 25, 2013 at 1:50am
  John, John . . . . studied my catechism for many years. . . .and on All Soul’s Day, I can get 1 soul out of purgatory if I say 1 Hail Mary, 1 Glory Be, & 1 Our Father . . If I go to confession and make a perfect act of contrition, attend Mass & receive Holy Communion . . .I win 1 soul! But if I miss Mass on Sunday – oops, No Communion and going to hell. Wow. Where is that in the Bible???
  Oh, and it’s 1 Cor. 11 not ’1′, guess you’re not that familiar with the Bible.
  1 Cor. 11:27 – Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. 29 For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself.”
  Ooops. . .I missed the part where it said you must leave the church service if you haven’t fulfilled the manmade rules of becoming a full member in the “one true church”.
  Or maybe in Matt.6 & John 14 where Jesus says to pray only to the Father through Him ? No idols.
  I think that I said there have been many (I should have said countless) holy people in the Catholic church. If you are happy in your chosen faith, I applaud you. Just sayin’ that my faith is much deeper now and I truly have the Lord’s peace in my daily life – all Christians belong to The Father, Son & Holy Spirit. We are all His children – so we have alot in common there.
  
  Report this comment
shorelineliz
Posted on February 23, 2013 at 5:02pm
The Vatican would not be under attack if some of these allegations were not true. They are. They sweep them under the rug. If they really wanted to have a clean witness in the world they would clean their own house. But, they won’t. They are too egotistical and vain. Too corrupt. There have been plenty of writings from Vatican insiders on the “gay” thing and it has been widely “known” that if a young priest wants to become bishop all he has to do is “suck up” to the current bishop and you can interpret that one any way you want. As for all the pedophile priests who were moved around to abuse other kids I say, “to hell with them!” The recent scandal with the Christian Brothers in Ireland is a perfect example of how the Vatican swept under the rug 14,000 legal allegations of child abuse over a 70 year period in Ireland. If the Catholic Church doesn’t stop sweeping this crap under the rug then media and others are going to keep bringing it up. It isn’t an attack. It isn’t an allegation. These things are being PROVEN in court. You can’t just molest 14,000 kids in Ireland and then claim you are being “attacked.” That was a legal lawsuit, it was proven.

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- PoliticallyRightUs.Com
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 5:18pm
  “The Vatican would not be under attack if some of these allegations were not true” Yea and honest American citizens 2nd amendment rights would not be under attack if the allegations “guns kill people and large capacity magazines are the problem” were not true either right? Another brainwashed useful idiot… I feel sorry for you!
  
  Report this comment
- IMCHRISTIAN
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 5:24pm
  If anyone is prosecuted as guilty then they should be punished but for accusations they have to be proven for each individual case. We are all innocent until proven guilty. It is easy to gossip.
  
  Report this comment
- barber2
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 8:53pm
  LIZ: Please remember the Harry Reid types who say all sorts of things, even in front of the senate, which have no basis in truth but which support the agenda they are pushing. The Left , the atheists, the Big Brother government types, have raised their angry heads today. Anyone – be they religious or political – who stands in their way will be destroyed by false accusations and by propaganda. They control the MSM today. Our Media savvy Lefties learned much from Goebbels. The Obama people and their International Lefty buddies are living proof of the skills they have perfected.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 11:23pm
  BARBER you sound like a paranoid schizo. Everyone’s an Obama troll out to get YOU. Give it a rest.
  
  Report this comment
- Verceofreason
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 12:11am
  I still say, someone have an old 8mm film
  of his Popeness in a hot tub
  with the Vienna Boys choir chomping sausages.
  
  Report this comment
- by faith
  Posted on February 25, 2013 at 10:35am
  Verceofreason
  You think it wise to ridicule and judge men who answered the call from God.
  Are all priest/ministers sinners, yes.
  No one will deny that. However these men were called to serve the Lord and they said yes, they belong to Jesus. The original 12 were not perfect either.
  They may be screw ups, but they are screw-ups who belong to Jesus. They are part of His family.
  
  Report this comment
media-bias-steals-elections
Posted on February 23, 2013 at 4:59pm
So, I guess after 2013 years, better late then never to recognize a problem?

How do you prove conjecture from manipulation if you have not made a press release? Don’t worry, we’ll pretend we are not interested and read about Zion, and the story of Enoch and an entire city of 600,000 people were taken by God and did not experience death (not confirmed?)?

Fortunately, the Earth is not filled with violence as it was before the time of Enoch, while it does exist, law abiding citizens with weapons prevent violence from “filling the Earth”. We’ve come a long way? Trust us?

Oh, this is one of Orrin Hatch’s favorite books?

ISBN 1-889025-01-1

Interesting, no I don’t believe politicians or anyone would support nations of Islam with trade or weapons that would support the religion of Islam, violating the 1st amendment and the establishment of religion, the very civil rights of Americans, just so they might say they played a part in a prophecy?

The baptism of the Holy Ghost was to establish a new zion, it was a gift that had to be rejected? Is prophecy the greatest gift, only if it is not pursued? When God considers an issue, he can change his mind, as with the rainbow? The very nature of God is to surprise us (if you read history?), it is better to trust him, then fear prophecy?

There is only one teacher who can answer these questions? There will be no press release, it will be in your heart? Patience is key?

Report this comment
Log in to Reply Reply
FloraBelleza
Posted on February 23, 2013 at 4:48pm
Add your comments

Report this comment
Log in to Reply Reply
FloraBelleza
Posted on February 23, 2013 at 4:44pm
Killing JESUS, a new book of Bill O’Reilly. Our religion have been under attack for a long time and we have been sleep, shame to every Christians that vote for liberals agenda. This people are call them self Christians should be think twice, the blacks that said they are Christians and said they are for Israel, but vote 2 or 5 times for Obama, and said they did nothing wrong, they are fake Christians, so is the Spanish people, shame all of them. Some day those people going to be judge for the actions. Save the democrats party, because they don’t know what are they doing. Democrats is against GOD, against Israel, and they are against Americans, but defend terrorists, democrats want the destruction of the family’s valor’s. Please pray for a better future of America, GOD Bless you all and GOD Bless the USA.

Report this comment
Log in to Reply Reply
barber2
Posted on February 23, 2013 at 4:39pm
Get ready, folks. This topic will attract Trolls like certain things attract flies ! From the Far Left Obama atheists to their Anarchist atheist Best Buddies !

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- Xanderson
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 5:08pm
  No doubt you are 100% correct. Of all the topics that illicit vile, mean-spirited replies here on The Blaze, anything Catholic (and especially Pope-related) brings out the truly vicious! I’ll stay tuned and read their filth so I know for whom to pray tomorrow at mass.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 6:07pm
  Please don’t pray to one of your statues, for me. I don’t want to be the focus of your idol worship.
  
  Report this comment
- Xanderson
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 6:57pm
  Ok. Thanks for the tip. And FYI, I’ve never in my life prayed to a statue–that would be weird!
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 7:20pm
  Don’t attempt to deny that you venerate dead people, call them “saints” and build graven images of them. Catholics certainly do pray either “to” or “through” these statues of dead people, typically Mary and your “saints.” I know, I was raised a Catholic, and the practice is clearly idol worship. What part of “no one comes to the Father except through me” don’t you understand?
  
  Report this comment
- Xanderson
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 7:49pm
  Even though you are clearly bitter about something in your RCC upbringing and come across as a rude adolescent, I will try to be kind in my reply. Never, in my life, have I been taught that anyone other than Jesus Christ can mediate between God and humans. If you feel Catholics are idol worshippers because our veneration of Mary helps foster our relationship with Jesus, that is your prerogative. I am sorry for your split with the Church. I hope you have found peace elsewhere.
  
  Report this comment
- barber2
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 8:40pm
  THEOTHERTROLL: If you were raised a Catholic , you must have been taught by anti-Catholics or deluded wackos. ! Saints are not ” worshipped.” They are admired and emulated because they not only talked the talk, but walked the walk. Many were martyred ( killed ) for their refusal, under torture, to deny their faith. Those not killed for their faith, lived lives dedicated to prayer or to helping others. Their lives were a better version of our People magazine !
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 8:54pm
  X, I’m not bitter. The problem is, you’re clearly mistaken. Catholics claim the sinlessness of Mary, the bodily assumption of Mary, that she is the Mediatrix, “cooperating” in our salvation by uniting men to God. “That Mary bore her son without any violation of her virginal integrity” is official Catholic doctrine. Hence, perpetual virginity. See: Ott, “Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma.” The RCC claims that Mary is due veneration, but Catholic scholars admit this “veneration due Mary,” called “hyperdulia” is substantially less than the “cultus latriae” (adoration) due to God, but greater than the “cultus dulia” due to saints and angels.
  
  Regardless, there is absolutely noting in Scripture about prayer or veneration to Mary, saints or angels.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 9:09pm
  BARBER, perpetual PMS, have we?
  
  Here is an example of RCC type of “veneration” of Mary.
  
  We have no greater help,
  no greater hope than you,
  O most pure virgin; help us, then,
  for we hope in you, we glory in you,
  we are your servants.
  Do not disappoint us. -Novena Prayers In Honor Of Our Mother Of Perpetual Help. 1968 p.16
  
  Report this comment
- Xanderson
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 9:12pm
  Not sure how you know that I’m “clearly mistaken” as you cannot in any way know how I was taught spiritually. I have a strong feeling we did not attend the same church. As I posted previously, I wish you peace in your quest for Biblical perfection in an imperfect world. You have a real possibility of joining a congregation of one. Your pot- luck dinners will be awful (one dish) :o)
  
  Report this comment
- barber2
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 9:30pm
  THEOTHER: Not sure why you take the veneration ( honoring ) of Mary as the mother of Christ ( a wonderful difference from the Muslim tradition of dishonoring and burka-ing of females ) as a sign of some terrible idol worshipping. You seem to be grasping at straws to absolve your anti-Catholic feelings. Perhaps you need to visit a good priest during Lent and iron out your anger. God does exist outside the church and you seem to have some issues that need resolution.
  
  Report this comment
- Old Truckers
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 9:37pm
  theotherberean is an equal opportunity hater.
  
  He/she hates everybody, (except himself or herself, or whatever), and his own special brand of religion and faux wisdom is far superior to any of us here.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 10:36pm
  X it’s sure easy to tell when you and others are in over your head. It’s probably best to just shut up at that point.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 11:19pm
  BARBER I already explained what is wrong with venerating Mary and it’s not just that aspect of Mariology. Pick up a copy of “Roman Catholics and Evangelicals” by Geisler and MacKenzie if you want to learn more. Many times the Scriptures speak against the use of images and are not permitted if they are an object of worship, appointed by man rather than God, have a religious purpose rather than educational or ornamental or are used to represent the essence of God.
  
  OLD, I haven’t seen you post anything BUT hate. Teacher, teach thyself.
  
  Report this comment
- Xanderson
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 11:51pm
  The Other– I’ve made the mistake of replying with sincerity to you and now that you find you cannot refute what I’ve said, you choose to insult and give up? C’mon troll– don’t feel bad that you’ve run out of quotes from “Hating on Catholics for Dummies”. I have worn out way smarter mean girls than you!
  Jesus loves you but here on Earth, you are a d!ck. And yes,my faith allows me to atone for saying that!
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 12:33pm
  X According to you I’m (and I’ll quote you) “vile,” “mean spirited” and “vicious.”Anti-Catholic,” I post “filth,” I’m “bitter, a rude adolescent,” I have “split with the church” I’m looking for “Biblical perfection” in “an imperfect world” and therefore I will have no “peace.” I’m “insolent” “insincere,” I “can’t refute” your arguments, I’m a “troll,” “out of quotes,” “hate Catholics,” not “smart,” “worn out,” I’m just a “mean girl” and “a dick.”
  
  I guess it’s ok for Catholics to be condescending and vitriol, then go to confession and do it all over again tomorrow. Woo Hoo!
  
  It’s hard to find an actual argument, hidden amongst all the condescending remarks concerning my character. That’s ok though, say a couple hail mary’s, put $20 in the collection box, light a candle while you “pray for me at mass” and you’ll be fine.
  
  I did however, find two bald assertions – that you “never prayed to a statue in [your] life – that would be weird!” and you claim “Never, in my life, have I been taught that anyone other than Jesus Christ can mediate between God and humans.”
  
  And I’m not really certain how you justify saying that, considering that the RCC clearly practices both.
  
  Report this comment
13th Imam
Posted on February 23, 2013 at 4:30pm
The Communist /Gay / Progressive Bloc of the College of Cardinals has gotten in touch with the Obama/DEMOCRAT election campaign dirty tricks division. They want to find some dirty laundry on the Conservative Bloc of the College of Cardinals. And the best way to use it. Even if they have to make it up.

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- The_Jerk
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 4:40pm
  Journalists make news. They no longer report news. Journalism is dead.
  
  Report this comment
- 13th Imam
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 5:20pm
  See , we can agree on some things.
  
  Report this comment
IMCHRISTIAN
Posted on February 23, 2013 at 4:28pm
The newspapers and the news on television are more corrupt then they have ever been. …Truth not lies… ethics and morals is needed in all people.

Report this comment
Log in to Reply Reply
denkat56
Posted on February 23, 2013 at 4:15pm
The church is hiding something.

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- gyro
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 4:32pm
  they always are
  :)
  
  Report this comment
Lando
Posted on February 23, 2013 at 4:14pm
The Vatican has murdered more Christians and Jews than any other state/person/organization in history… they change their history at will… they worship saints and think of Mary as a co-redeemer… so forgive me if I don’t believe a word coming out or their mouth.

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- john654
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 4:28pm
  You are a Hitler!
  
  Report this comment
- barber2
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 4:32pm
  Lando: and forgive me for not believing any of your statics…
  
  Report this comment
- gyro
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 4:34pm
  wow
  
  Report this comment
- Lando
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 5:04pm
  hey, I used to be in the same boat… “they’re ‘Christians’ so they must be doing mostly right”…
  
  read up on the Vatican’s history and come to your own conclusions
  Petrus Romanus
  A Woman Rides the Beast
  
  Report this comment
- KickinBack
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 5:26pm
  So a couple of guys who hold a grudge against Catholics and write books on them is now considered its “history.” Please.
  
  Report this comment
- quiltgal
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 5:26pm
  What garbage! I don’t believe a word coming out of your mouth.
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 6:14pm
  LANDO You are right. Catholics heretical teaching that Mary is the co-mediatrix and co-redemptrix who has a hand in salvation.
  
  But Jesus said “no one comes to the Father except through me.” Jn 14:6
  
  Report this comment
- Lando
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 8:11pm
  I’m not condemning all Catholics, but the Vatican’s history is pretty deplorable. The books I mentioned have over a thousand endnotes so you can do your own research and not blindly follow a man made religion based more on traditions and dogma than the teachings of Christ. The Vatican will be a tool used by the Antichrist. Much of the world will be deceived and the Holy See will be a big part of it.
  
  Report this comment
- SonOfThunder
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 8:20pm
  Lando is correct. Catholics are in a cult. Catholics are not Christian. Catholicism is a works based religion. Christianity is the only religion that you have to “do do do” to get to heaven because Jesus has done it all. Ad the is a fact jack. Repent and put your trust in Jesus alone folks.
  
  Oh yeah Jehovah’s Witness is a stone cold cult. They predicted the end of time several times. That is what the Bible calls a false prophet watchtower. Oh that is right you wrote your own bible and rely on the watchtower as your book.
  
  Report this comment
- barber2
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 8:32pm
  LANDO and THEOTHERTROLL: Please give our acknowledgements to the atheists at radical Lefty Center from which you came. The Catholic Church, Christianity, and all conservatives are your natural targets. Anyone who has studied world history knows how this goes. The old Black Hand anarchists, the Fascists , the Communists , the anarchists: all sons of the Dark who hate sons of the Light. Been that way forever. Shades of WWI and II. You are just the new crew of harbingers of what is to come…
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 10:40pm
  BARBER blah blah blah
  
  Still can’t think of a valid rebuttal? Go figure.
  
  Report this comment
- Xanderson
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 12:13am
  Poor sad trolls :(
  
  Report this comment
- Lando
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 12:50am
  Knowing the history and dealings of the Catholic church and pointing them out does not make me an atheists or leftist. I’m a God fearing conservative plain and simple. Some of you are attacking me because what I am saying is hard to hear. You want to believe that anything with a cross in front of it must be good. Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. He has been and still is using the Vatican. Research catholic dogma, do your homework about what the Vatican has done.
  
  Satan’s plan is to destroy the plan of God. The Jewish people are at the heart of that plan. What other agency consistently blamed Israel for killing Christ? What other power has pursued the Jews throughout history? Who instituted purging them from their homes and seized their assets. Who forced them to wear badges and live in camps (long before Hitler)? Who instituted the inquisition that killed millions. Who inspired and endorsed the leaders of National Socialism? This is the tip of the iceberg.
  
  Many are true Christians, but Catholics are indeed being misled. The ones high up in the Vatican, well that’s another question, angel of light comes to mind. Any ways, I think I’m done here. Don’t believe anything I say… research it for yourself.
  
  Report this comment
- iampraying4u
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 1:31am
  Amen
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 12:43pm
  and Amen
  
  Report this comment
- janmil200
  Posted on February 24, 2013 at 3:40pm
  Lando, Catholics do not consider Mary to be a “co-redeemer”. We seek her intercession with God for us as a co-mediatrix, to intercede for us and plead our case, so to speak, before God in seeking His Mercy. I think even you would admit that we need all the help we can get.
  
  Report this comment
- Lando
  Posted on February 25, 2013 at 4:19am
  You are right in that Mary being a co-redeemer is not official Catholic dogma (yet). And you are right that we all need all the help we can get – thank God for his grace. I just don’t see how praying to Mary is Biblically sound.
  
  “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6 KJV)
  
  Any ways, I have a long way to go in the knowledge of the Bible… still an infant here. But so many things just don’t sit right with me when looking at the teachings of the Catholic faith.
  
  Thanks for the response Janmil. God bless!
  
  Report this comment
- Lando
  Posted on February 25, 2013 at 4:23am
  And this verse I think makes it even more clear…
  
  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus (1 Timothy 2:5 KJV)
  
  Report this comment
barber2
Posted on February 23, 2013 at 4:11pm
The Catholic Church has long been the target of the Left. The front page of the NYT is frequently filled with “news” articles which highlight Church problems. Their editorial pages are filled with the same. All Big Brother governments – Right and Left – have targeted and persecuted the Church because of its allegiance to God over state. Been that way since the Church’s founding during the Roman Empire when Christians were considered ” atheists ” because they would not worship the state gods of Rome.

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 6:15pm
  Poor baby. I should note that Christian apologists target the RCC too.
  
  Report this comment
- barber2
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 8:19pm
  THEOTHERTROLL: Poor dear, or hon ( VERCE”S favorite ) Explain how ” Christian apologists” like Thomas Aquinas, Augustine, Chesterton, and C. S. Lewis , whose purpose as an apologist , was to give a rational basis for Christian belief were “targeting” the Church. You speak with the typical forked tongue of the Lucifer Left .
  
  Report this comment
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 10:49pm
  BARBER, you’re really out there in la la land. Don’t know who Verce is, don’t care. Did they point out the pagan practices of the RCC also, to become worthy of your wrath? Or should I say your unfounded accusations and bald assertions? You really like reading your own words I can tell, but it would be much more fulfilling if they actually contained rational thoughts, rather than just mindless rhetoric.
  
  Yes, I am “targeting” your church, by pointing out its pagan practices. You may ignore them and perhaps die in your sin if you like, but you would probably just blame me for that too. Progressives blame everyone else for their own faults.
  
  Report this comment
- by faith
  Posted on February 25, 2013 at 11:35am
  I find it strange how some people “target” Catholics yet “faith alone” saves.
  Catholics believe in Jesus as our Lord and Savior. Everything else we do, by definition is works. (Even Luther believed that) BTW: Luther was a big believer in Mary and the Real Presence in the Eucharist
  So I guess it’s not faith alone, your faith must be their faith alone.
  
  Report this comment
SciPro
Posted on February 23, 2013 at 4:09pm
Soo … all is not well at the Vatican … Gay plots? .. at the top? .. You just have to wonder …

Report this comment
Log in to ReplyReply
- theotherberean
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 6:27pm
  Should there be any wonder? “Therefore God also gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. Rom 1:24.25.
  
  Report this comment
- iampraying4u
  Posted on February 23, 2013 at 7:35pm
  The catholics should all go back to rome.That will be where all the action is.Read Revelation ch 17&18
  
  Report this comment

It appears that you have Javascript Disabled. Please enable Javascript in your browser preferences for a better user experience on TheBlaze. You can not comment without Javascript enabled.