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‘Go Godless’ Billboard Misquotes Sarah Palin on the Bible and Gov’t (and Atheists Apologize)

Mar. 5, 2013 7:35am Billy Hallowell

American Atheists (AA) is known for putting up some controversial billboards. The secular group’s messaging typically targets people of faith, while also using contention to gain interest and intrigue in media. Consider the group’s new campaign, a series of billboards in Austin and Dallas, Texas, encouraging people to “go Godless.” To get the word out about its fervent non-theism, AA is using some familiar faces.

The signs feature messages from Pope Benedict XVI, Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin, Rick Santorum, and Pastor Robert Jeffress, a Dallas-based preacher whose past comments about Mormons and homosexuality have created controversy. Only, something isn’t quite right about one of the quotes that was attributed to the 2008 vice-presidential nominee.

Each of the billboards features a picture of one of these individuals and a statement surrounding their views on church and state. The sign featuring Palin quotes her as saying, “We should create law based on the God of the Bible.” But, as CNN notes, that’s not what she said. The outlet reports:

In an interview with Fox News’ Bill O’Reilly, Palin addressed the growth in American secularism by saying of America’s founding fathers “we would create law based on the God of the Bible and the Ten Commandments,” not “should.”

Dave Muscato, the group’s public relations director, said in a release that because American Atheists holds itself “to the highest standards of accuracy,” it will “move the quotation marks at our expense, so they do not include the word ‘should.’”

AA is, however, standing by the “intent and context” of the billboard.

American Atheists Launch Go Godless Instead Campaign | Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich, Rick Santorum

Photo Credit: American Atheists

So far, the other messages have caused less controversy. Santorum’s reads, “Our civil laws have to comport with a higher law. God’s law.” And Gingrich can be seen in yet another billboard asking how one can be trusted if he or she doesn’t pray to a higher power.

In addition to these messages, which are presented in English, a Spanish version featuring Pope Benedict XVI highlights church abuse (see the English version, below).

Photo Credit: American Atheists

“We’re very proud of these billboards,” Dave Silverman, AA’s president, is quoted as saying on the group’s web site. “Prominent figures in the public sphere continue to make abhorrent statements, all justified by their religion.”

Silverman went on to say that society has finally reached a point in which bigotry against atheists will no longer be acceptable.

In addition to imploring Americans to reject God, the billboards go on to invite citizens to attend the organization’s national convention from March 29-31 in Austin.

“We invite reasonable people to stand up, come out, and join us in celebrating 50 years of fighting for the separation of church & state and the civil rights of atheists,” he continued.

AA has a history of posting potentially-offensive signs. For examples, simply look here or here.

This story has been updated.

–

More Stories From Billy Hallowell:

In CONTROL, Glenn Beck presents a passionate, fact-based case for guns that reveals why gun control isn’t really about controlling guns at all; it’s about controlling us. Find out more HERE.

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Comments (157)

BeeAlert
Posted on March 5, 2013 at 11:01am
“Without god there is no satan, there is no disease, there is no death….lets fight the man!!!! Revolution!!! LOL” -Doors of P

Yup, and there’s no fish, no birds, no koala bears, no people, no planets, no earth, no sky… That’s worth fighting for? But that is the logical conclusion of the liberal arguement — death is terrible so get rid of everything that dies, and we’ll all be happy. But who will be left to be happy? Only God, weeping over our stupidity, yet sufficient unto Himself forever.

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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 11:59am
  It was a joke…a bad one but kind of a joke.
  
  Were Koala Bears on Noah’s Ark?
  
  Report this comment
- Palter
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 3:25pm
  For a libertarian you guys sound like a bunch of *******. Don’t you see, Those politician are trying to make our country becoming a theocracy!
  
  Report this comment
- comforteagle
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:55pm
  Wothout god there is no god. thats the end of thT sylogism
  
  Report this comment
media-bias-steals-elections
Posted on March 5, 2013 at 10:52am
If an athiest puts up a bill board explaining that public tax dollars going to Islamic nations supports the religion of Islam, violating the American US Constitution, I will applaud them?

Other than that, ignore them?

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- comforteagle
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:30pm
  Learn how to use question marks. and logic
  
  Report this comment
- Ollie123
  Posted on March 6, 2013 at 12:29am
  I don’t understand why an atheist has to try and prove there is no God why don’t they just wait until they die and then find out first hand that they were terribly wrong?
  
  Report this comment
- Chuck Stein
  Posted on March 6, 2013 at 1:36am
  @ Comforteagle
  How did you miss the logic? (I hope you approve of the question mark)
  Atheists fall all over themselves to decry the “oppressive” climate of a Christian-influenced culture and civic institutions. But Atheists do not have the intestinal fortitude to challenge a genuinely oppressive culture that is produced by Islam. Pretty straight forward. Is it just too disquieting to address?
  
  Report this comment
- ihasa
  Posted on March 8, 2013 at 4:19pm
  How are American tax dollars ‘going to support Islam’? That seems… unlikely. I thought the money was being spent on propping up friendly (to America and Israel!) dictators.
  
  Report this comment
Maggie in Indiana
Posted on March 5, 2013 at 10:32am
Ummm billboard ads are not che3ap. Who is their benefactor? I mean for such a small group they spend a lot of money.

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- pdw
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 12:19pm
  Hate groups always have unknown benefactors. I lived in the DC area during this period. Three was a “Nazi” group near DC in Virginia that would demonstrate for money. George Lincolon Rockwell his first lieutenant John Patler was Jewish, they would go anywhere the NAACP planed a demonstration so they could disrupt their event.
  He ended up being murdered by his first lieutenant. Never did hear why he was murdered, that got quiet in a hurry.Wiki Website is; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Lincoln_Rockwell
  
  Report this comment
- comforteagle
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 1:53pm
  Billboards are cheap 75 – 1000 bucks a month, and they only need it for a month to advertize their meeting.
  
  Report this comment
- TheIggies
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 1:57pm
  I work for Warner Bros., and we collect around the office for atheist groups here all the time.
  
  Report this comment
- mrwilson
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 6:28pm
  My first thought too. I will defend their right, under The Constitution, to free speech for ever.
  However, never in my life has the old saying, ” a time and a place,” had more meaning than it does today.
  As you state ma’am, ” billboard ads are not cheap.” As the federal offices of management and budget openly states; “despite all government funding, as great as one in four children in America will go to bed hungry tonight.”
  The cost, depending on the total number and the length of time, could easily run into the millions of dollars.
  It saddens me when I think what a group like Focus Adolescent Services could do with a mere fraction of that sum to continue and expand their work to save the children of America. Their free national help line, over 20 years with the help they provide has saved more than we will ever know.
  The federal laws for non-profits, the 501(C)3,s require the annual posting of the sum and the names of who gave and how much. Should you be serious in your question you could Google it or file for the same under the freedom of information act. While you are at it, should you not already know of the work done by Focus Adolescent Services you may appreciate reading their web site and mission.
  
  Report this comment
TheGrtDcptn
Posted on March 5, 2013 at 10:25am
I especially like the quote below, as they (atheists) assume the holier then thou stance…

‘The church protected priests who abused children’

How smug to insinuate that no lsbt or athiest has ever abused a child, a blatant LIE…

Another LOL moment…Talk about arrogance…!!

‘society has finally reached a point in which bigotry against atheists will no longer be acceptable.’…AND…’fighting for the civil rights of atheists.’

You (atheists) have a right to live YOUR life…You do NOT have the right to dictate MINE…

Bigotry…?!…Civil Rights…?!…Rolling on the Floor Laughing Out Loud…!!

Go Godless…?!…NAH…I choose atheistLESS…pffttt…

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Libertyluvnmomma
Posted on March 5, 2013 at 10:24am
Rush was talking about morality yesterday.
There is no morality in communism.
That explains everything.

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- Palter
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 3:19pm
  And of course rush is a moral compass….
  
  Report this comment
Atrum Angelis
Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:52am
I couldn’t care less about AA billboards. I put them at the same level as Christian and Muslim billboards. Honestly, who actually makes life decisions based on a sign next to the road? Whether it regards faith or not.

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- comforteagle
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:55am
  The sign is not tring to covert people. it is to advertize their convention later in the month
  
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- Atrum Angelis
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 10:21am
  And by the “Go Godless” I would assume that they want those that follow some form of faith to attend and learn more about atheism, and eventually, leave their faith to become atheist. It may advertise for a convention, but even a non-believer like me can see the purpose of the sign.
  It is to advertise to non-believers to attend a convention with like minded individuals, and to bring more people to atheism by attracting those who already have doubts in their faith. It is no different than the pamphlets I get in my mail box from religious groups advertising faith-based conventions/gatherings.
  
  Report this comment
UNALIEN
Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:54am
These 501c 3 gigs are very lucrative, many of these “progressives” fronts are just parasitic bureaucracies,,

American Athiests located on Christiani St (irony) President David Silverman’s compensation according to IRS 990 statements..

2010 $24923 salary plus 7525 other compensation = 32,448

2010 $94425 salary plus 26788 other compensation = 121,213

almost a 400% increase in salary and compensation for a non profit, sounds very profitable for El Presidente David Silverman,

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- UNALIEN
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:04am
  should be year 2011 for second one..
  
  2010 $24923 salary plus 7525 other compensation = 32,448
  
  2011 $94425 salary plus 26788 other compensation = 121,213
  
  almost a 400% increase in salary and compensation for a non profit, sounds very profitable for El Presidente David Silverman,
  
  Report this comment
- Proverbs17-12NLT
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:39am
  Misery loves company that’s why atheists need to advertise. Burn in Hell for eternity, know betters.
  
  Report this comment
- JohnofOregon
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 10:07am
  Correct on compensation and salary,
  
  What isn’t mentioned here is that Silverman has set up a fat little endowment using democrat activist money. He is not the only democrat financed radical group. And yes if you look at the agendas of the last several meetings its a who’s who of democrat party left wing activists.
  
  Report this comment
Locked
Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:52am
That’s hardly the worst quote Jeffress has ever said. The guy hates all folks who aren’t part of his denomination; he’s anti-Catholic, anti-Mormon, anti-Semitic (or at least pro-Jews-burning-in-hell), anti-gay, anti-first amendment.

He’s a lot of anti.

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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:15am
  Yeah, he seems like a nice, happy go-lucky guy on the outside but I picture an S&M torture chamber going on behind his little eyes…
  
  Report this comment
- Gonzo
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:25am
  Does this AA bunch only find fault with religious Republicans? From this grouping, it sure looks that way. I’m sure you could find something a Dem had said if you wanted to.
  
  Report this comment
- Locked
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:30am
  @Gonzo
  
  “Does this AA bunch only find fault with religious Republicans? From this grouping, it sure looks that way. I’m sure you could find something a Dem had said if you wanted to.”
  
  A quick search shows that during the 2012 elections they had billboards posted outside of both the DNC and RNC; anti-Christianity for the DNC, anti-Mormonism for the RNC. Not quite sure if that was what you had in mind?
  
  I’d never really heard of AA before (usually FFRF is the offensive atheist group we hear about), though I did find out that the AA president, Dan Silverman, is somewhat of a meme for his expression when debating Bill O’Reilly.
  
  Report this comment
- Gonzo
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 10:10am
  That’s kind of generic Locked. I’m curious if they have put the face of a religious Democrat on one of these billboards. You might have to go back a few years, but I’m sure you could find something “controversial” from the left. The group of billboards the Blaze has shown us indicates AA has a political agenda as well as an anti religion agenda.
  
  Report this comment
- ihasa
  Posted on March 8, 2013 at 4:11pm
  Gonzo
  
  If the Dems spouted an equal amount of religious talking points, and used religion to manipulate the sheeple in the same way as the GOP, you would find they would be equally targeted.
  
  Report this comment
Dismayed Veteran
Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:45am
When they put up a billboard quoting an Islamic cleric or a quote from the Koran, I will believe they are sincere. Right now they are just petulant children.

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- Locked
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:56am
  Here’s a billboard placed in Muslim neighborhoods that says (in English and Arabic) “You know it’s a myth… and you have a choice.” There’s also a Jewish one.
  
  http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/05/american-atheists-to-place-billboards-in-ny-jewish-nj-muslim-neighborhoods/
  
  AA is against all religions. They likely focus on Christianity because less than 3% of the US population identifies as Muslim or Jewish, but over 70% identifies as Christian.
  
  Report this comment
- Geoffrey
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:58am
  Well said.
  
  Report this comment
- JGraham III
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 10:02am
  Pity the poor atheist: they are little more than shills for the devil. He won’t help them in their time of need and God cannot because He will not overstep the atheist’s right to choose not to believe.
  
  Report this comment
- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 10:14am
  jgraham
  
  prove it
  
  Report this comment
- gac1218
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 1:27pm
  Doors-
  I can’t prove anything to you but this is what the bible says: 2 Tim 2 23-26. The last phrase says:
  “..That they would come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them/ you captive to do his will.”
  Atheist deny their problem, leaving them with no recourse to a cure.
  
  Report this comment
- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 1:49pm
  I don’t have a problem…I’m not denying any problem. I have a wonderful job, family, dog, home, life. I am filled to the brim with joy and happiness. I don’t care what you think you know because some book tells you so…you are wrong and don’t know me or my life. I wanted hime to prove this….if I’m a shill for this devil..there should be some proof right? I mean you would require that from some tribesman in Papau New Guinea right if he told you were a shill for the jungle demons that you believe in Magic Man…or would you just accept him as his stupid word?
  “Pity the poor atheist: they are little more than shills for the devil. He won’t help them in their time of need and God cannot because He will not overstep the atheist’s right to choose not to believe.”
  
  Come on people I want some evidence!!! Just cause I have Bram Stoker’s Dracula and can read passaged from it, doesn’t make vampires real!!!
  
  Report this comment
PIGSWILLNEVERFLY
Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:38am
Pascal’s Wager – AA people, if you can read, look it up.

When wicked and unprincipled persons have gone on a course of sin to the degree that they can scarcely hope for pardon, and find they have reason to rear the Just judgment of G-d for their sins, they begin, at first, to wish that there was no G-d to punish them; which they think (no G-d) would be in their best interest (they are very selfish individuals). And so, by degrees they persuade themselves that there is no G-d. Then they determine to find arguments to back their opinion in order to prove what they are willing to believe. Most don’t want to be inconvenienced and quit their life of sin.

It is Absurd to believe that nothing is absolutely true!

Logic: Absolute Truth exists or it does not exist; and, if it exists there can ONLY BE ONE SOURCE FOR IT.

Atheism is what allowed Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao Tse Tung to perform outrageous atrocities against their people. They believed that NOTHING is necessarily and absolutely wrong and their are no ultimate consequences. It was and is a Symbiosis of Evil.

http://www.theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/02/28/former-kgb-agent-yuri-bezmenov-explains-our-four-stages-the-new-normal-2/

No one KNOWS what ENERGY IS it can only be described by characteristics of it’s various manifestations MATHEMATICALLY.

Cosmos. Consciousness. G-d YHVH.
Think for yourselves. Read the Scriptures and IT will “just come to you”; search and IT will be revealed.

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- Locked
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:46am
  @Pigs
  
  “Pascal’s Wager – AA people, if you can read, look it up.”
  
  I’m a Christian myself, but what are you referring to with this? Pascal’s Wager is one of the weakest arguments for belief possible. It’s the logical equivalent of saying, “You should always enter the lottery because you can only win or lose. It’s 50-50!”
  
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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:49am
  When wicked and unprincipled persons have gone on a course of sin to the degree that they can scarcely hope for pardon, and find they have reason to rear the Just judgment of G-d for their sins, they begin, at first, to wish that there was a G-d to punish them; which they think (a G-d) would be in their best interest (they are very selfish individuals). And so, by degrees they persuade themselves that there is a G-d. Then they determine to find arguments to back their opinion in order to prove what they are willing to believe. Most don’t want to be inconvenienced and try to hide their life of sin.
  
  Report this comment
- momrules
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:53am
  Thank you for the link. It looks like we are entering stage four now.
  
  Report this comment
- comforteagle
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:05am
  Pascals wager is flawed in multiple ways. Some are it doesnt take in account other gods theries; doest give the possiblity that we can believe whatever we want and still go to heaven; if we follow pascal we should pick the religion with the worste hell to believe in; and dont you think god knows the difference between someone believing in him and someone betting on him? you also say that if absolute truth exists it can only have one source,, but what about compairing the truth that 1+1=2 with humans need oxigen to live with all batchlors are unmarried with inductive truths? You can truthfully talk about the same thing using compleatly different axioms to work from. and all those mass murders you listed ; not one of them killed for atheism, nobody kills in the name of atheism like they do for positive thei stic belifs. they can be atheist and kill but does it make sense to kill in the name of nothing?
  
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- 1956
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:14am
  LOCKED: Pascal tried to make the argument to believe in God an intellectual argument. True belief in God comes from knowing on a deeper level, from your heart AND VERY SOUL that GOD IS. Pascal’s argument for belief is just a wager… to CYA, so to speak. It has nothing to do with true faith.
  
  Report this comment
- Locked
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:27am
  @1956
  
  “Pascal tried to make the argument to believe in God an intellectual argument. True belief in God comes from knowing on a deeper level, from your heart AND VERY SOUL that GOD IS.”
  
  I completely agree. Which is why I’m confused as to why @Pigswillneverfly (or many other posters here from time to time) keep bringing it up. It’s one of the worst arguments possible to try and persuade non-believers.
  
  Report this comment
- Southerner01
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 10:41am
  To me, the biggest problems with pascals wager are:
  1) It assumes a dichotomous choice. However, the same argument could be equally applied to any other religion that believes in an afterlife. If you take the logic to it’s logical endpoint, you end up like the character from the movie “The Mummy” who wore every know religious symbol around his neck, because one of them had to be right. Even within Christianity, there are dozens if not hundreds of different denominations, some of which claim you are damned if you pick the wrong brand of Christianity.
  2) the logic is flawed. He says that if you believe and are right, you gain everything. If you believe and are wrong, you lose nothing. What if you sacrifice everything you have on earth for your beliefs? Then, isn’t there something lost if you are wrong. Think of the followers of Harold Camping, who gave away all their worldly belongings, then the world didn’t end. Kind of sucks to be them.
  
  Report this comment
VanGrungy
Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:28am
God has no source. God is.

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badjeffro
Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:21am
Sometimes, atheists can be among the most liberty-minded citizens. However, if the group above is pushing to keep politics and religion separate, then they better stay the course on the topic of gay marriage. The regulation of marriage by any government is an egregious violation of the idea of church and state separation.
Additionally, people should be aware of the difference between ‘religion’ and ‘faith.’ Remember the VP debates? Mr Ryan talked about his faith, while Mr Biden used the word ‘religion.’ Faith is personal, while religion is group related. The group can’t make you faithful, it can only help your personal faith grow. Religion is not bad in itself, but it is fundamentally flawed because it is colored with mankind’s interpretation of God’s word. Therefore, any problems with religion are man-made and do not reflect the true heart of God.
In the end, a person either believes in God or does not. God will exist regardless of our belief or disbelief in Him and His plan will be carried out with or without us. Trying to argue someone into belief is like trying to spit out a forest fire. Know what you believe, why you believe it, speak about it and let the God the Holy Spirit do the rest.

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- trolltrainer
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:29am
  Good post. You are correct.
  
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- soybomb315_II
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:52am
  you are correct Badjeffro
  
  every person yearns for freedom because God is perfectly free and we are made in his likeness
  
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- BrutalTruth
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:23am
  Spot on.
  
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SpankDaMonkey
Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:18am
.
Well isn’t that special…..Texas again……

Muslim Sympathizers, American Atheists and Goat Ropers who think their cowboys, what plage will hit this place next?…..

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- Rayblue
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 10:45am
  Quit thinking when you type.
  You embarrass yourself and make us all look bad.
  
  Report this comment
UBETHECHANGE
Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:13am
Atheists Misquote Palin Bible Remarks in Texas Billboard, Refuse to Apologize http://global.christianpost.com/news/atheists-misquote-palin-bible-remarks-in-texas-billboard-refuses-to-apologize-91204/

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- Dave Muscato
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 12:22pm
  UBETHECHANGE, the Christian Post article you linked to is incorrect. Actually we apologized the very same day the billboards went up, the very next day after the error was discovered (it was pointed out to us on Sunday and we apologized Monday). I have already spoken with The Christian Post and they are supposed to be posting a follow-up article sometime today.
  
  - Dave Muscato
  Public Relations Director
  American Atheists
  
  Report this comment
soybomb315_II
Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:11am
Notice that there is a type of christian politician that these folks are not attacking….
___________________________
““The immoral use of force is the source of man’s political problems. Sadly, many religious groups, secular organizations, and psychopathic authoritarians endorse government initiated force to change the world. Even when the desired goals are well-intentioned—or especially when well-intentioned—the results are dismal. The good results sought never materialize. The new problems created require even more government force as a solution. The net result is institutionalizing government initiated violence and morally justifying it on humanitarian grounds.

This is the same fundamental reason our government uses force for invading other countries at will, central economic planning at home, and the regulation of personal liberty and habits of our citizens.”
-Ron Paul farewell speech to Congress

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- trolltrainer
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:28am
  Ah, I see what you did here! You used atheist billboards to endorse Ron Paul.
  
  Thing is though, Jesus never taught His disciples to just turn their back on those in need and only worry about themselves. I do agree with you that God should never be used as an excuse to wage war on your fellow man, but I can at least understand why we fall into the trap, as a nation, of wanting to spread freedom and democracy and protect those unable to help themselves.
  
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- soybomb315_II
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:49am
  People like Ron Paul also believe in spreading freedom and democracy. But he/we believe that doing it through the barrel of a gun is not a good way to do it. Christians know the gospel should be spread through truth, love, and individual compassion and it is no different for “freedom and democracy”. The only difference is that one involves the bible and the other involves the constitution
  
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- BrutalTruth
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:28am
  Troll, your not accurate. He did teach his Disciples to preach the word and bless those who accept it. And to kick the dust of their heels for those who don’t. Jesus didn’t walk this earth as a community organizer to the poor, but as a beacon of Truth to offer salvation to the poor in spirit. He doesn’t beat you over the head to accept Him, but he absolutely does require it. His message isn’t about this life or how you can make it better.
  
  Report this comment
- trolltrainer
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:52am
  BrutalTruth
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:28am
  
  Troll, your not accurate. He did teach his Disciples to preach the word and bless those who accept it. And to kick the dust of their heels for those who don’t. Jesus didn’t walk this earth as a community organizer to the poor, but as a beacon of Truth to offer salvation to the poor in spirit. He doesn’t beat you over the head to accept Him, but he absolutely does require it. His message isn’t about this life or how you can make it better.
  —————————————————————————————————-
  
  Who said otherwise? I can see by the other thread that much of your problem is reading things into people’s posts that simply are not there!
  
  Report this comment
RedDirtTexas
Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:07am
Would put a hundred dollars down that Silverman is a filthy penis puffer who is an atheist simply because to believe in God he would feel guilty for his sick perversions.

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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:38am
  I bet you’re a butt pirate that needs an ancient holy book to keep you from raping and pillaging pirate booty.
  
  Report this comment
- comforteagle
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:45am
  Would put a hundred dollars that you are a bigot
  
  Report this comment
- RedDirtTexas
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:55am
  Well gosh I am hurt now! Forgot to be PC and a couple of gays hate me! ROFLMAO!
  
  Report this comment
- DeavonReye
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:55am
  Seriously, reddirt, . . . . try to make grown up comments, please.
  
  Report this comment
- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 10:01am
  You weren’t being un-PC you were just being a moron. I’m not gay…plus I don’t have a couple guys in tight baseball pants giving each other noogies as my avatar.
  
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- RedDirtTexas
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 10:53am
  @ The Doors…To quote your reply to another comment…”prove it”. My comment was made for two purposes. 1. To imply that gays and atheists are often one and the same, both of which I abhor. 2. To use a Marxist tool against those who are standard bearers of the liberal socialist Democratic Party. That tool being agitation. The billboards were not put up to recruit atheists but rather to agitate conservative Christians. To put it simply, YOU HAVE BEEN REVERSE AGITATED FOOL! And FYI the guy in the tight Texas Rangers uniform, is Nolan Ryan, a famous Texan, and those ain’t noogies that he is dishing out to Robin Ventura’s head! Now please exuse me while I do some day-jobbing and fracture some oil bearing shale.
  
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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 12:04pm
  I know who Nolan Ryan is…it was a joke.
  
  So people do things against your beliefs just to agitate you not because they believe in them? Lol…oh ok.
  
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SquidVetOhio
Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:04am
Well, there’s a news flash. Atheists acting like schmuks. That never happens…..

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gac1218
Posted on March 5, 2013 at 7:59am
It’s amazing. The kettle calling the pot black.
The atheist hate christians and our supposed aggenda to force God on the society, while they (the atheist) do just that. (try to force their aggenda on people)
How many billboards did Newt, Sarah, and the Pope put up with a message against atheism?
They want freedom of speech and want ours denied.
Look where removing God from our government has gotten us?
- 16 trillion in debt
- longest period of high unemployment
- lowest wealth per capita in over 50 years
- crime and corruption off the chart
- a country absolutely polarized and divided, ( not one nation under God anymore)
- prayer and God out of schools and schools are now out of control
What they ask for will destroy them and everybody else.

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trolltrainer
Posted on March 5, 2013 at 7:57am
Atheists just need a hug. :-)

It’s okay atheists, Jesus loves even YOU! All you have to do is accept that love. There is no one to blame except yourself if you do not.

One day soon you too will be on your knees in front of the Savior realizing that YOU lost.

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- naughtycal
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:12am
  don’t rape
  don’t murder
  don’t steal
  don’t cheat on your wife
  Honor your father and mother that their days be long upon the earth
  don’t envy the success of others
  Which one of these laws do atheist have a problem with?
  They are all sound ways to keep a healthy society.
  On a different note Christians need to fight the atheist fire with fire.
  Bill boards with pictures of the lake of fire with the caption
  Relax it will only feel like an eternity,or Maybe you’ll get use to after the first thousand years.
  Things along those lines
  
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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:26am
  Naughty
  
  We don’t have a problem with those…but we do have a problem with the obvious morals it leaves out in place of God’s commandments that stroke his ego.
  
  Also, what is wrong with envy at the success of others? That is a virtue…it drives people to do better for themselves so they can obtain what they don’t already have. Envy is a part of capitalism. And I’m a capitalist.
  
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- naughtycal
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:53am
  DOP(fitting initial)
  Envy of other by those who can’t achieve it leads to rape,murder,robberies,and immorality.
  That’s whats wrong with envy. Envy is greed,lust,and evil.
  I’m not say you can’t desire to better your financial well being. Envy bases that desire based on what others have not on your goals.
  Explaining morality and why it is so important to a healthy society to those who can’t comprehend it is like showing a great movie to a person who is both blind and deaf. Very little if any gets through.
  
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- 1956
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:09am
  Their problem seems to be in the fact that these are known as COMMANDMENTS and not “suggestions” – so they can pick and choose what they want to follow (or not) for whatever fits into their current lifestyle. Their biggest problem lies with the first four commandments.
  
  1). I am The Lord, your God. You will have no other gods before me.
  
  2). You shall not create or worship any idols.
  
  3). You shall not misuse My Name.
  
  4). Remember to observe the Sabbath Day by keeping it holy.
  
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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:26am
  @Naughty
  
  I completely understand morality…don’t know what you are projecting.
  
  @1956
  
  You’re right…whether they are suggestions or commandments they are still useless.
  
  There are obviously more than 10 commandments…some of them are about livestock or something I cant really remember you can google them….but nothing about how to treat children, why not to practice slavery, nothing about germs…I mean a commandment back then just telling people to wash their hands would have saved millions of agony, pain and death. But no…don’t forget to worship me because I’m soooo cool.
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 10:06am
  Trolltrainer, . . . you said, “It’s okay atheists, Jesus loves even YOU! All you have to do is accept that love. There is no one to blame except yourself if you do not.
  
  One day soon you too will be on your knees in front of the Savior realizing that YOU lost.”
  
  If you don’t see any evidence that there is a “Jesus” [being invisible/unheard/unfelt], how would it even be logical to “accept the love of a non-existent being” just so you don’t “wind up dead and realize that this Jesus is now holding SUCH a grudge against you that you can’t talk him out of throwing you into an eternal torture chamber”? It is nonsensical. And if it is true, it would be completely unjust [and unethical] to damn people for being honest about NOT seeing any evidence at all that it was even true.
  
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- trolltrainer
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 10:19am
  Ah Devonrye, you have got a serious problem, huh?
  
  God is self-evident. But you have the advantage of actually knowing who Jesus Christ was (in history, as a man) and have heard what He did for you. He died on the cross for your sins! So you do know of Him. Try reading the Bible, I am sure one is readily available to you.
  
  You make a fundamental mistake! You do not get sent to hell for NOT believing in Him. No sir! He holds no grudge against you, only love. A love so deep you cannot fathom it. So deep He became man and suffered much indignity and died an agonizing death for YOUR sake. He did not have to!
  
  We are all slated for hell. Period. No man (except Christ) can keep all the law and sin not. The penalty for sin is death. Hence…We are all sentenced to that death. Many of us interpret that death to be an eternity of torment in hell. Some don’t. Some believe annihilation, some universalism, some do not believe in hell…Whatever…It is a game of craps. I know what the Bible tells me. Every single one of us is already sentenced to an eternity of torment in hell simply because we are sinners. Period. Stop.
  
  Except…Christ paid that price for you!!! All you have to do is accept it.
  
  It really is that easy. I don’t have the space or inclination to explain it all or argue with you. Casting pearls and so forth…But if you accept Christ’s gift all becomes clear and you become one of His.
  
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- naughtycal
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 10:23am
  DOP,
  I’m not projecting anything.I’m stating the fact that morality is not dictated by society. Society or rather the quality of it is dictated by the morality of the individual that make the society. Acceptance of immorality creates a an immoral society. Now let’s assume the bible is just a book not a holy scripture
  if that was what the bible is then said book would be nothing more than life lessons on what builds a florishing society and what pit falls destroy a society. Lets say soddum and gamorra weren’t destroyed by God but rather destroyed by godlessness(or immorality) of the people that made up the cities populations. And God was used as scare tactic to warn of the out come of immoral activity in society. If you don’t believe in God that’s up to you but a people who never study the past are doomed to repeat it. And if the bible is anything it’s the oldest example of written history .
  
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- naughtycal
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 10:39am
  DOP,
  Slavery in bibical terms is different than in todays term. There were no great business employing the weak or ill prepared of society. Slavery in those days was basicly a job that provided food and shelter for those who had neither at the cost of manual labor. Slaves were servents,share croppers,farm hands,…ect. Yes some were viewed as property but most were views as paid help.
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 10:42am
  Trolltrainer, there is no deity that is evident. Perhaps a person can have some sort of self-influenced belief in a concept, and maybe it even be real to them. That is their life choice. But actual evidence? Not seeing it.
  
  I am well aware of the doctrines that were adopted because of a story found in the biblical Canon. It is a character in a book. That doesn’t equate to this character being real, especially in the way christianity claims him to be [even if he were a real historical person].
  
  Again, I am aware of the salvation narrative. Initially it seems like an impressive thing, but requiring a human sacrifice before an “ultimate power” is satisfied . . . is unethical and nearly evil. That’s my own opinion, of course.
  
  As for the “we all deserve hell”, . . . I find that to be the most abhorent doctrine of christianity. Born sick and commanded to be well, . . . when it isn’t even HUMAN to be what is expected to begin with. “Perfection” is an illusion to keep people feeling so bad about themselves that you can much more easily gather them to the religion . . . with the added benefit they provide to the bottom line.
  
  And I must be SO bad that I’m “a swine” because I don’t quickly receive the christian story in my “heart”, . . . thus am not worth spending time on. In other words, I can’t be convinced easily, so “too bad for you. Enjoy hell”.
  
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- Southerner01
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 10:45am
  Naughtycal, I see billboards like that on I75 all the way up the east coast.
  
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- trolltrainer
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 10:49am
  Ahhh, don’t cry devonreye! If I really didn’t care I would not have bothered responding to you in the first place. Swine? Lol, we are ALL swine. I am no better than you. In many ways I may be worse. :-)
  
  But to continue to argue is pointless, would you not agree? You rolled the dice, it is your gamble.
  
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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 10:51am
  Naughty
  
  That is an extreme apologists view. That is an extremely rose colored glasses view of it…but the point is even if what you said was somewhat true…couldn’t god make slavery pretty cut n dry…I mean he is god
  
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- Locked
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 11:10am
  @Naughtycal
  
  “Slavery in bibical terms is different than in todays term.”
  
  Whaaaat? No, what you described is a total falsity. As a Christian, the best I can say when it comes to the Bible and slavery is that the Bible never calls it moral (thus leaving it up to us, as humans, to eventually overcome the need for slavery).
  
  As a student of history, your view is almost completely wrong. Slavery is the same then as it is now: you had no choice in the matter (unless you were a male slave of the same country: then you could choose between your wife or your freedom), you weren’t paid, and you could not leave.
  
  I mean, if you want to argue that slaves were made to farm rather than build electronics in some Asian factory, sure, that’s different. Otherwise, slavery is still the same: no freedom, no wages, no choice.
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 11:26am
  Locked, that’s a good post, sir. That’s about how I see things. Ancient people wanted slaves and wanted it to be “okay with their god”, so claimed it BEING okay and even instructed on how to do it. But if there WERE a god, it could very well be the case that Israel’s slavery of other cutlures was not at all condoned, but merely watched [much like how things go today with people acting as they see fit, even claiming a divine moral ground]. Same could be said about many of the biblical stories.
  
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- naughtycal
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 12:11pm
  DOP,
  You asked if God could stop slavery…he did and hundreds of thousands of soldiers died to make it happen. God works through man not over him. If God were to literally appear and stop something there would be no need for faith no one would deny him because they saw him and thus free will would be broken and replace with fear for some and knowledge for others. So god works through those who truely understand his teachings.
  Has evil been done in his name…yes but was it his will or the will of men who wanted power that corrupted the teachings.But that could be an endless debate.
  Back to what you posted….You need only look at the stories of Abraham,Issac,and others to see that slavery was not actually slavery in the terms we know it today. In many cases people went willing into an arrangement where the impoverished shared the burdens of labor to reap the rewards of shelter,food and protection. There’s no debating that. Much like in the south many who owned slaves weren’t all ROOTS on their slaves some even raised theior slaves with their own children. During the civil war many young black men went to war to fight beside their plantations owners and the plantation owners sons. Not out of obligation but out of something more. Mutual freindship.
  Fact Jefferson Davis owned slaves that worked for him but he treated them more like employees than slaves giving days off (shifts)and the ability to also farm their own plots and raise their own live stock to sell for themse
  
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- naughtycal
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 12:15pm
  Continue
  Yes slavery even under good conditions was still wrong and still evil. Just a lesser evil.
  One last thing do you really think Blacks in America today would be better off if their ancestor where never purchased into slavery. I know America would be better having never allowed slavery but would black americas be better off if we never brought their ancestors here.
  
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- Locked
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 2:02pm
  @Naughtycal
  
  “but would black americas be better off if we never brought their ancestors here.”
  
  They wouldn’t be alive today, not like they are now. This is the same kind of illogical reasoning that makes me shake my head at pro-life bumperstickers saying “I’m glad my Mommy chose life!” If Mommy had not chosen life, I wouldn’t care anyway. If my parents had never had sex, I wouldn’t have been born; if they had never met, same thing.
  
  Your line of reasoning can justify any atrocity. If the Holocaust hadn’t happened, Israel wouldn’t exist today; does that make the Holocaust “good” for Jews? “Moral”? Does it give it any redeeming value? Of course not; only a sociopath would make sure an argument.
  
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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 2:39pm
  @Locked
  
  Damn man again…time after time…thanks for being about the only logical christian on here. You actually give christians a good name…thank you for your comments and reason.
  
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momrules
Posted on March 5, 2013 at 7:56am
They will all be held accountable. Such a sad waste of their lives and time here on earth.

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marybethelizabeth
Posted on March 5, 2013 at 7:55am
How can you trust Glenn Beck when he doesn’t keep the 10 Commandments and worships strange gods? The Mormon god isn’t the Christian God.

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- trolltrainer
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:18am
  Lol, your post didn’t show up for an hour!
  
  Take your meds marywhatever…There is no need for the mormon bashing on this thread. They believe what they believe, you believe what you believe, and I believe what I believe. Let Christ judge.
  
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- BrutalTruth
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:54am
  Troll, with one hand you give, with the other you take away.
  
  I don’t take it that mary was bashing, but just exposing truth. Isn’t that what we’re supposed to do as obedient Christians? re: Eph 5:11
  
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- trolltrainer
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 10:08am
  Boy, brutaltruth, you sure are trolling me today! :-)
  
  Why not check some of marywhatever’s posts? We all know her. Her post here was made for a single purpose: to get the Mormon debate fired up. Even if you and I consider what she has to say to be truth, what place does it have here? What purpose does it serve? Much like the atheist billboards, a Mormon argument here will persuade neither side and will only serve to make those who consider themselves to be Christians to make fools out of themselves over their mortal theological beliefs.
  
  I am a Baptist and I disagree strongly with Mormon theology. That is my right. But heated arguments are not going to serve God’s purpose in any way.
  
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- naughtycal
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 10:42am
  The mormons worship Jesus Christ …Mary
  The Christian worship Jesus Christ…Mary
  Same God same message different books
  
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jackact
Posted on March 5, 2013 at 7:54am
In a democratic republic founded under unalienable rights for its people GOD will always win.
Giving thanks for that takes conviction not cowardice.
No so much in communist countries like North Korea and Cuba where divine intervention remains silent…..

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kaydeebeau
Posted on March 5, 2013 at 7:52am
Why does a group spend so much time and effort fighting so hard against something they claim doesnt’ even exist?

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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:30am
  Because in this country people in power, who make policy, as shown in these billboards. Do so based on an invisible being that was written about in a 2000 year old book by uneducated desert dwellers. We want reasonable people in power. How would you feel about a politician who based his life and decision making for this country on the magic tales in The Lord of The Rings Triology? Well, that is how we feel.
  
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- soybomb315_II
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:33am
  u talkin about progressives and freedom?
  
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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:39am
  Soy
  
  I could be if that was the topic. But right now I’m more concerned with the faithful…because it interests me more
  
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- trolltrainer
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:44am
  The_doors_of_what?
  
  Have you considered that maybe those who know God know something you do not? You have convinced yourself that belief in God is superstitious ignorance, but maybe it is YOU who are ignorant of what YOU can’t see? If you are truly open minded and…perceptive…then you have to admit that belief in God is fairly widespread throughout history. In fact, up until fairly recently there were NO ATHEISTS at all! EVERYONE believed in a higher power of some kind. Maybe atheists have simply shut their hearts and eyes against God because they don’t want to recognize that higher power?
  
  I KNOW God. He not only exists…He is more tangible than anything else I know. I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit. You cannot dissuade me from what I live with daily and know as the most basic fact of life. You can ridicule me, but that changes nothing. There are many here who know Him and will tell you the same thing I have. If you truly are perceptive then why not open your mind up to the possibility that we know something you have not experienced?
  
  Closing thought: You too can easily experience a relationship with Christ. He welcomes all. You can know what we all know, just ask Him in.
  
  I hope you do someday.
  
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- BeeAlert
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:45am
  @Doors
  Actually, Tolkien was a Christian, and I’ll take the moral standards of LOTR over liberal, atheist garbage in a heartbeat!
  
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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:13am
  Trolltrainer
  
  I was a Christian for most of my life. I would have said those same things you did just now 6 years ago. I was a baptist…baptized…brought my first girlfriend to christ…went on small mission trips. I was saved in the Royal Ambassadors…God was the biggest part of my life for a very long time. So you think I need to come out of the abyss and have a realization to believe as you…well I already did…the abyss was religious faith. I don’t mock you…just you’re silly beliefs…I use to hold those silly beliefs too but I don’t pitty you or anything like you do me for not “knowing” what it is you “know. So, I will mock the hell out of your beliefs but trust me I know where you are coming from.
  
  @bee
  
  There are a lot of christians who do great work…I don’t understand your point. I doubt you do either.
  
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- 1956
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:22am
  This is perhaps the best argument and point made about atheists’ efforts to “disprove” or “remove” God from everything in our lives.
  
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- trolltrainer
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:29am
  I am deeply saddened by your experience then Doors… It sounds like you got a healthy dose of religion and jumped through all the hoops. Baptism, mission trips…But you never knew Christ. You knew ABOUT Him. I don’t know what prevented you from giving yourself to Him or what turned you away. Maybe it was bad preaching, maybe it was the church full of hypocrites we all endure. Whatever the reason, you have an advantage over those who understand little to nothing about Christianity. I pray the Holy Spirit can lead you to God eventually. I pray that He can lead you to overlook religion and all of man’s foolishness and into a personal relationship with Christ.
  
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- BrutalTruth
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:51am
  That was well said, Trolltrainer
  
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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:57am
  @Trainer
  
  No, I knew christ he was my best friend. I know as a christian you have to believe what you do or it falls apart…that I was somehow missing a step or something…or I was just playing a role. I assure you I knew christ very very well. But it wasn’t bad preaching or any bad experiences…most of the people I met in church were wonderful people…some friendships I still have today…my mother and sisters are still highly religious. Unfortunately, i ate from the tree of “knowledge”….”knowledge” is anathema to totalitarian governments as well as ideals. What brought me out of christianity was the bible, reality, science, history, and deep deep inner searching for the possibility of god. I obviously can’t prove that there is no god, I personally don’t think there is one, but there could be, but I am 99.9% sure the god of the bible doesn’t exist. And if he did I would spit in his face for being such a moral monster and begin my penance in hell.
  
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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 10:06am
  @Brutaltruth
  
  It was well said, I agree. However, it was completely incorrect regarding my personal experience.
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 10:14am
  Doors, that post [two up from this one] was well said, and I can see a lot of my own self in it.
  
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- trolltrainer
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 10:32am
  Gottcha doors! You are a liar. Either that or you are seriously confused. You say you knew Christ, that He was your best friend. How can that be? He does not exist? You can’t know something that does not exist. That is one-sided. Your post shows that you are trying to turn the tables on me, but it is not possible. You believed in Christ at one point, but you never knew Him. If you did then you would still know that He exists. If He still exists then you have knowingly turned away from the God you know to be real. If this is the case then you are the enemy of God and you are certainly justified in trying to show why God is evil, spiteful, jealous or whatever else you want to claim. I understand that.
  
  But you show there IS a God!
  
  I am sorry, it does not logically work. You never had a relationship with Christ.
  
  Know what is funny? Ironic funny? I always believed in God, but didn’t much care until I took a good look at evolution. See, I always believed what I was taught in public school and college, I thought evolution was scientific fact. Until I looked long and hard at it! That is when I found Christ and accepted Him.
  
  No, it does not fall apart. It finally makes sense. :-)
  
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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 10:46am
  Not sure what evolution has to with this…plenty of christians accept the fact of evolution. Is your god not capable of evolution? I don’t understand.
  
  Also, I knew christ just like you know christ. I didn’t shake his hand, or hug him like you do a loved one or a friend…I knew him inside my mind just like you do. Only now I know differently…
  
  I wasn’t trying to turn the tables on you just trying to make you understand that I was just as delusional as you are now.
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 10:52am
  Trolltrainer, . . . I cannot speak for Doors, but I “knew I was a christian” when I was younger. But I didn’t have anything remotely like “a relationship”. Even when I was trying my heardest, reading my bible, praying as fervently as I knew how, attempting to enter into worship, . . . I thought it was real at that time, . . . but even way back then I had issues with sensing/feeling/hearing/seeing nothing at all. I can’t tell you the number of times I went to the alter to pray ["pour my heart out"], and got up feeling nothing at all, . . . and it just being me thinking to myself in my brain.
  
  So, I doubt I ever was a christian. I was one who followed what authority figures expected me to follow, and having a “fear of hell” as a motivator. That ultimately failed, of course, when I had to finally come to terms with what I was ACTUALLY doing.
  
  Again, my story isn’t Doors . . . or anyone elses that states an absolute relationship with Jesus, yet no longer.
  
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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 10:53am
  @Deavon
  
  Thanks…Yeah it really upsets me when they say I really didn’t know god…or I wasn’t a “true” Christian. I mean I understand they have to believe that but still….
  
  I don’t agree with Dan Barker on a lot of things he does with the FFRF but if you haven’t look up any talk by him on YouTube how he went from being a preacher to one of the most prominent atheist. I would also highly recommend looking up Jerry DeWitt(if you haven’t already)…he was the first graduate from The Clergy Project…and his first talk after “coming out” is pretty interesting. Both are on YouTube. But like Dan Barker always say’s “if I wasn’t a true believer then nobody is”
  
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- trolltrainer
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 11:06am
  (shrugs)
  
  I know Christ to be the second part of the Triune God. Existing outside time, eternally, but being born a man from the virgin Mary. He died for my sins and is now interceding for me. I pray through Him, He responds to me through the Holy Spirit. He is real, and one day I will be united with Him.
  
  You say you knew Him as I do. This I cannot understand or believe, otherwise you would still be His.
  
  I believe you know of Him and I believe you think you knew Him. I believe your experience was much like Devonreye relates. I do not know why some people have an experience like this. I am somewhat Calvinistic but I still believe in free will and I firmly believe that every man has the same opportunity to come to Him. What held you back? I don’t know. I wish I did. I have more concern for those like you than I do those who simply deny. I wish I could help you. It is easy to say, “just believe” but in practice it does have to be sincere. You do have to surrender yourself to Him. A living sacrifice. I hope someday both of you can figure this out and come to the understanding that I have. That many in here have…of God.
  
  I just ask that you do not scoff so strongly. I understand many Christians are jerks to non-believers. I have many good atheist friends. Many sincerely and legitimately try to understand me. I appreciate that. We are all human. We all have a choice to make. Sometimes it just takes time to find God…Sometimes some never do.
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 11:08am
  Right, Doors. When a person was a preacher at one point in their life, . . . then an atheist later, . . . there can’t be any TRUE “you were never an actual christian” statements. Again, as I said above [even with all the spelling errors], I’m sure there have been many people who once were just like the most devout of christains, yet when faced with new information had to walk away [and not out of rebellion because they wanted to "sin more"].
  
  I can only speak for my own past experience. And when someone says to me, “you were never actually a christian”, . . . they may be right. Even though I truly believed [and even loved] Jesus, there wasn’t any experience where I could pinpoint to state, “this is why I can say this”.
  
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- trolltrainer
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 11:32am
  sigh…Let me try one more time with an example which neither of you will get anyway. Because neither of you actually KNEW our Lord…
  
  I married my wife. I have a relationship with her for many years. But then some new information crossed my path that told me she wasn’t real, she does not really exist! “Cool!” I think to myself and I walk away from her.
  
  Really?
  
  If you KNOW Christ exists and have a relationship with Him, then WHAT possible information would cause you to change your mind? It simply is NOT POSSIBLE!
  
  You doubt Christ is real or that He is what He claims to be. Then you never knew Him. It really is that simple. Anything else is a contradiction. Like, “maybe this God I have a living relationship with is really not God…” Seriously?
  
  The pastor never knew God. It happens. All the time, in fact. Many pastors get saved years, decades, even lifetimes after they began preaching the Word. The difference is night and day, but if you only know night…Then how am I to explain day to you?
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 11:44am
  I understand your claim. Trolltrainer.
  
  There are those who “know that they know that they know”. Okay. I was VERY sincere about “having a relationship with Jesus”. Why didn’t that happen? Note “sincere”. I couldn’t be anymore sincere than I was. If the Jesus of the bible narrative really was a divine being who went to heaven and wants a relationship with us, . . . why does it not happen with some? Are some people unable to find it . . . regardless of their sincerity? Did the 5 Point Calvinist get it right . . . and god creates people for the sole purpose of them burning in an eternal hell [for his pleasure, because it is all for his pleasure, after all]?
  
  I have my own thoughts on the topic. A good word is “simulacrum”.
  
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- trolltrainer
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 12:13pm
  Devonreye, I am actualy enjoying this conversation! You bring up some great points. Part of what you say has driven me further towards calvinism than I am comfortable with. Also, the fate of the unevangelized, who never even had the chance to hear the Gospel, and the fate of the Old Testament Jews who were damned. Some were saved, but on what grounds? Evangelicals answer that they were looking FORWARD to Christ. They ALL were looking forward to a messiah! None of them lived up to the law. What is the answer? Like it or not, predestination answers a lot of questions…
  
  But no…I am not 5 point. I believe there has to be some measure of free will, otherwise, why the charade to begin with? Why even create those who will be damned? Why Adam and Eve, why this earth? Why not just create perfect, submissive creatures and place them in heaven?
  
  You were sincere, but did you give yourself to Him? Did you completely surrender all? I don’t know…I remember arguing with my wife about what being “saved” means before I was born again. It pissed me off that I believed in Christ, even wanted to be saved, but there was no evidence in my life of Him. Then one day I submitted. It was not even an altar call, just a conscious decision that I no longer cared about my old life and that I wanted to live for Him alone. Like Johnny Cash sang, “I was there when it happened, so I guess I oughta know!” The change was instantaneous and beyond any doubt.
  
  Why me? I don’
  
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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 12:20pm
  @trolltrainer
  
  In your example of your wife…through the scientific method Deavon and I could prove your wife exists…to you(unless you were mentally unstable) and to other people.
  
  @deavon
  
  I misspell stuff all the time on here…I’m typing fast and usually using my phone.
  
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- trolltrainer
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 12:42pm
  doors, that is where faith comes in. What I disagree with is when some insist faith is blind. It is not. It is based on experience and knowledge. Just because I cannot physically see God does not rule God out. I feel God. I respond to God. I have enough evidence of God to know He exists. God is really the only explanation for anything TBH. You can dispute that, but then again, you lack the experience I have of God. You are left trying to substitute your own answers that leave God out.
  
  God is proven, over and over. You simply refuse to accept the evidence. I can prove Christ through the Empty Tomb Argument. Look it up. It proves the resurrection beyond any reasonable doubt, far more evidence than a court would need to convict.
  
  I ultimately boils down to worldview. You do not accept God based on my evidence, I do not accept evolution based on yours. NEITHER can be proven through the scientific method. Both rely on interpretation of the evidence.
  
  The thing Christianity has going for it is the experience of those who are born again. It is the least likely evidence for those unsaved to accept, the easiest to “write off.” Yet it is the most profound evidence for believers. The power in the Blood. The changed lives and the Christian experience.
  
  You don’t prove Christ, you find Him.
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 12:50pm
  Yes, Trolltrainer, . . . absolutely [on the surrendering]. I just had to come to the realization that I just wasn’t able to translate it into a reality for me. . . . . seeing how other christians were acting just didn’t occur within me. For a short time I THOUGHT it was [I played bass for my city's own Brownsville Revival thing], . . . but it ended up being a “group mentality” thing. I fell over, . . . cried about “my sin”, . . . did the “jerking action” [because others did], . . . and even in that time, I can remember laying on the floor, “worshipping god”, but then realizing that it was [once again] all in my brain, and the emptiness flooded back in. It was an interesting simulation, but wasn’t real. That’s why I can say [now] that I probably never was “a christian”. I was a follower of what others expected of me.
  
  Would I be affected if I actually had an undeniable visitation? Absolutely!
  
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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 1:13pm
  @Troll
  
  My definition of faith is a way to believe in things for no good reason. It also seems to make intelligent people NOT believe in things when there are good reasons. Like evolution. Also, Evolution has passed the scientific method…that is why it is a scientific theory. It is falsifiable…you could go out right now and turn the science world on it’s head and falsify evolution. You would be the most famous scientist in the world!
  
  I have faith in unicorns…I believe unicorns live in my heart and I have a personal relationship with them…this is not falsifiable. Unless, you were claiming that unicorns “literally” lived in your heart.
  
  I have placed this challenge a couple of times Troll…name on thing that had a scientific explanation that now has a supernatural/religious/god explanation. Now, begin to list the thousands upon thousands of things that had a supernatural/religious/god explanation but now have a scientific explanation. I’ll be waiting…
  
  @Deavon
  
  I played guitar in my church band!!! Woo Hoo!
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 1:20pm
  Doors, sometimes I miss playing the bass. I enjoyed the music and the people, . . . and was very good at it, actually, . . . but no longer could continue in it without an increasing level of hypocricy. It’s been about 4 years [or so] since I left that life.
  
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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 1:21pm
  @Troll
  
  Faith to me is believing things for no good reason. It also seems to make you NOT believe in things when there is a good reason, like evolution. Also, Evolution did pass the scientific method and that is why it is a scientific theory. You could go our right now and turn the science world on it’s head because Evolution is actually falsifiable. Do it! You would be the most famous scientist in the world…
  
  “I have faith in unicorns, I believe unicorns live in my heart and that I have a personal realationship with them.” Unless the unicorns literally lived in your heart, this is not falsifiable.
  
  @Deavon
  
  I played guitar in my church’s early morning service…haha
  
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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 1:30pm
  Hmm…I posted twice because I thought it wasn’t received. I really hate the system they use here at the blaze. Oh well…
  
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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 2:58pm
  @Deavon
  
  Same here, my girlfriend and I still go to my church with my mother because it makes her happy and I would never tell her out right I don’t believe at all anymore. I can’t imagine having my mom think her only son is going to hell for eternity. I still get that feeling sometimes, when I’m in there sometimes, kind of like when you are at a football game and your team scores a touchdown, but more often than not I’m trying real hard to not look at my girlfriend and roll my eyes.
  
  The other day my sister lost her cell phone, and my mother told me “I prayed about it and she found it” It was really hard to not say that a little child died in agony in the time it took you to say that mom, can you please live in reality. Or my girlfriends grandma saying “well if you know your bible, you knew this was coming” while watching the news. Or my other sister making me watch a Ray Comfort video…don’t know if you know who that is but he famously said that bananas are proof of god because they fit in our hands so perfectly. All these little things now become harder and harder to stay quiet about…but I usually never see the need. It kind of reminds me of something I read in a book one time “Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.”
  
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- DeavonReye
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 4:32pm
  Doors, I [too] haven’t told my family about my true feelings, mostly because of my mom. She’s had a stroke in the past and I do not want to “grieve her that her son was going to hell”. It would be an unnecessary form of mental abuse she would have to endure. My sister sends her kids to a christian school and I already had to hear about how the earth was “only about 6,000 years old”. It isn’t my place to actively teach them reality, and can only hope they will learn it when they get older, but it is VERY hard to not just open up a can on the teachers there.
  
  Yes, I am quite aware of who Ray Comfort is. . . and his “Way of the master” technique of street preaching. I’d almost would like to run into him, one day, just to converse about that. But yeah, the whole banana thing was really quite embarrassing for him. He later stated that it was something he wasn’t aware of and even made a video or two making fun of the whole fiasco.
  
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OldSurfRat
Posted on March 5, 2013 at 7:52am
You know the funny thing is that the AA ads only confirms my belief in God and the bible.

“Many will hate you because of me”
“Many will be deceived”

So as you can see AA you are only proving that the words Jesus spoke of are true and you have only made the case for his words to be fact.

Bless you AA for your helping people see Gods word in action.

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- RJJinGadsden
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:01am
  OLDSURFRAT, I expect ENCINOM to show up eventually and prove those words are so true.
  
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- trolltrainer
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:09am
  Anyone whose eyes have been opened by the Holy Spirit are not going to be dissuaded by the foolish words of foolish man. These billboards are a waste of time because they will not persuade a single person against God who would have otherwise believed in Him. It is simply the frustrated, childish reaction by those who are lashing out against what they know themselves to be the thing missing in their lives.
  
  Don’t be angry at these foolish atheists. Love them as Jesus would love them. They are simply blind. Maybe some of them will eventually see.
  
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- OldSurfRat
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:16am
  RJJ
  I welcome Ency’s comments. They will only make my day a little better because I will have yet another reason to give thanks to God for giving me the knowledge of his existence.
  I feel for those who have not found the truth. It truly dose set you free from your human / earthly side. God has given me strength when no man, woman or drug could.
  
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- OldSurfRat
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:27am
  Trolltrainer
  
  You are correct. I am not in any way mad at them. It is not for me to be. I have accepted Christ in my life and have seen the change in my ways and in my family.
  
  I would recomend that someone who does not yet know Christ and does not understand or trust the bible to first ask God for your eyes to be opened (what do you have to loose if you do not believe) Next read Mere Christianity by CS Lewis. It sure helped answer some of my questions.
  
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- soybomb315_II
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:04am
  RJ has accused me of playing the part of encinom on another article so it looks like your encinom fetish will go unfilled again this morning
  
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- OldSurfRat
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:18am
  Soy
  
  I think it is easy to understand why RJJ would say that.
  There are many who play games on here.
  I have found RJJ to be fair in his posts so maybe you need to try and look at why he may have said that. I’m not slamming you but just stating what I have seen.
  
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- soybomb315_II
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 9:31am
  No, RJ is as close-minded as they come. I talk to many people on here, few as intolerant as RJ
  
  http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/03/05/nra-lands-big-sponsorship-deal-with-major-sport/#comment-4999724
  
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Sharon Rose
Posted on March 5, 2013 at 7:45am
God wins in the end.

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- puravida56
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:13am
  Consider the source!
  
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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 8:41am
  Without god there is no satan, there is no disease, there is no death….lets fight the man!!!! Revolution!!! LOL
  
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- gac1218
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 1:31pm
  Doors
  Your error is to assume that Satan and sickness and disease is God’s fault. Disease is not the opposite of health, it is the absence of health, as sin is not the oposite of good but the absence of good.
  Disease and evil come not because God created it but when God is removed from his creation.
  
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- The_Doors_Of_Perception
  Posted on March 5, 2013 at 3:39pm
  “Your error is to assume that Satan and sickness and disease is God’s fault. Disease is not the opposite of health, it is the absence of health, as sin is not the oposite of good but the absence of good.”
  
  So he didn’t create everything? Disease is not the absence of health, it’s the inclusion of bacteria and viruses…god’s little creatures. Did he not create Satan…did he not know when he created satan that he would turn against him in this epic graphic novel?
  .He doesn’t send people to hell either, right?
  
  If you built a torture chamber in your basement and an awesome sports room in your actic and said “Hey, I need you to worship me…either worship me and love me and you get to go to my attic, or don’t and go to my torture chamber.” Is that a moral choice? Are you not sending people to your toruture chamber? Wouldn’t society send you to prison?
  
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