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ACLU Files Lawsuit After NC Gov’t Officials Refuse to Stop Praying at Meetings

Mar. 14, 2013 1:27pm Billy Hallowell

The American Civil Liberties Union of North Carolina (ACLU) has a bone to pick with the Rowan County Board of Commissioners. As TheBlaze reported in Feb. 2012, the two parties’ ongoing battle over prayer at public meetings began long ago — and it’s nowhere near over.

Despite a lower court ruling that found prayers at local government meetings in Forsyth County (another community in North Carolina) unconstitutional and the Supreme Court’s subsequent refusal to hear the case, officials in Rowan County aren’t backing down. They, too, have been beginning meetings with invocations — a practice they don’t plan on giving up. As a result, county commissioners become the ACLU’s most recent target of legal action over sectarian prayer at government meetings.

It was last year that the Rowan County Board of Commissioners first defied pressure from the ACLU to cease Christian prayers; the organization called these invocations unconstitutional and has continued to maintain this stance.

ACLU Files Suit Against Rowan County Board of Commissioners Over Prayers at Meetings

Credit: AP

At the time, one of the board members (and the county commissioner), Chad Mitchell, defended the prayers said at the opening of each meeting. Apparently, board members are given the chance, via rotation, to give a prayer if they so choose. In the past, some have opted not to be included in the rotation (a choice that the group deems perfectly acceptable).

“The practice of opening with an invocation has been ongoing for many years,” Mitchell explained at the time. ”The earliest book of minutes that we have easy access to is from February of 1971, and the Board of Commissioners at that time was using the same procedure of invocation as we are currently using.”

More than a year after the initial spat took place, the ACLU has filed suit, seeking a preliminary injunction that would halt sectarian prayer and seek financial retribution, the Salisbury Post reports. The outlet has more about the current case:

Three Rowan County residents — Nan Lund, Liesa Montag-Siegel and Bob Voelker — are listed as plaintiffs in the suit, filed in U.S. District Court in Greensboro. [...]

The lawsuit asks for a preliminary injunction requiring commissioners to stop the sectarian prayer. It also asks for a permanent injunction, that the county pay $1 in damages and that Rowan pay the ACLU’s legal fees.

In a meeting with Post editors and reporters Tuesday, Lund, Montag-Siegel and Voelker said the board’s opening prayer not only makes them feel excluded, but has also impaired their advocacy on other issues.

“Defendant’s invocation practice has the primary purpose and effect of promoting and advancing one particular faith, Christianity,” the lawsuit charges, as the plaintiffs hold that the meetings’ openings are discriminatory in nature.

The commissioners say they may discuss the lawsuit on Monday’s meeting and that they will weigh legal opinions to see how they should progress. That said, some were less-than-surprised by the lawsuit’s filing, as they refused to comply with the ACLU’s warning, which came more than 12 months ago.

As for the civil rights organization, its leaders say that the lapse in time was allowed in hopes that Rowan County officials would comply with its demands. This was obviously an aspiration that went unfulfilled.

If Vice Chairman Craig Pierce’s response is any indication, it’s likely the ACLU is going to have a battle on its hands. While the group anxiously awaits an injunction to halt the prayers, Pierce told the Post that he still plans on opening next Monday’s meeting with an invocation.

“I’ve prayed all my life, I’m not going to change now,” he said, claiming that he has a First Amendment right to do so. “If I’m told by the courts that I can’t pray in session, then we’ll have to accommodate that…”

Pierce isn’t alone, either, as the four other Rowan County commissioners agree that prayers should continue.

In the coming days, the public’s reaction to the current spat will be evident. Last year, dozens of citizens showed up to support prayer. Next week, the same reaction could follow.

(H/T: Salisbury Post)

Featured Image: Shutterstock.com

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Comments (90)

Freunlaven
Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:33pm
Why is it so hard for them to understand the difference between “of” and “from”?

I see the spiritual decendents of Judas and are alive and well, and seem have have multiplied…

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- binge_thinker
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 5:02pm
  The modern day Pharisees are the militant godless and the secular fundamentalists.
  
  Report this comment
- From Virginia
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 6:36pm
  “Sectarian” prayers are a filthy little euphemism to mean “Christian” prayers, only. They don’t file lawsuits to stop muslims from praying on public property. Muslims close down streets in NY city every day to gather and pray in the streets. They leave classes at school to pray in special rooms on school grounds. ACLU stays silent about this practice.
  
  If the “courts” say they can’t pray (something the federal government – House, Senate AND Supreme Court – does at the start of every session) I’d defy them. I want to see the jack-boots coming into the State Houses and dragging people away for praying just like they did when they dragged people away in Texas to remove the Ten Commandments.
  
  Report this comment
- Freedomlover_US
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 8:15pm
  When government officials make a sectarian prayer at an official government meeting, it is placing religion where it does not belong and is imposing that religion on others who want absolutely nothing to do with it. We keep the government out of churches – I expect the same in return…
  
  Report this comment
ConstitutionalAmerican
Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:32pm
The term, “Separation of Church and State”, comes from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson years after the Constitution was adopted and he had served as President. The First Amendment states quite clearly, “Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of Religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof:,,,,,,,,”

The ACLU, that used to fight for the rights of people’s civil liberties, has no case here trying to deny those rights.

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- The_Jerk
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:38pm
  They are fighting for power. They are fighting to change your culture. They are fighting to destroy your traditions. They are instilling their Jewish version of Sharia law. Your offspring will pay the price of your negligence.
  
  Report this comment
- MDECKER
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:57pm
  I’m anxious for the ACLU to sue the Government over the Government’s infringement of our Second Amendment Rights.
  
  Report this comment
- Smokey_Bojangles
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 3:09pm
  MD<They do take a second Amendment stand.I found it hard to believe myself. This is from an ACLU supported sight.
  http://www.flexyourrights.org/success-stories/open-carry-in-virginia/
  
  Report this comment
- ltb
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 4:39pm
  The ACLU has never fought for people’s civil liberties. It was started by a communist who wanted to use America’s weakest link (i.e., our court system) to destroy us from within.
  
  Report this comment
- The_Cabrito_Goat
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 5:43pm
  “It was last year that the Rowan County Board of Commissioners first defied pressure from the ACLU to cease Christian prayers … ”
  
  Remember, nudge becomes push. Push becomes shove. Shove becomes….well, I’ll let you imagine what comes after shove.
  
  Report this comment
- justsayin456
  Posted on March 15, 2013 at 11:17am
  You people are confused.
  
  Report this comment
seeds12
Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:27pm
What is the difference between free speech and prayer? If I said I wish the board would support this “whatever rule” that is okay, but if I say “Lord Jesus Christ Son of God, I ask that I ask for you Grace and wisdom in hopes that that “whatever rule” passes.

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seeds12
Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:23pm
Sure would be nice for the ACLU to file suit against themselves for Congress shall make no law prohibiting the free exercise thereof. Seem pretty simple that they only see certain parts of the 1st amendment.

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- Freedomlover_US
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 8:17pm
  WHen the board brings prayer into an official government meeting, they are imposing their religion onto us. Why they can’t just pray before the official meeting I don’t know. Probably to impose their cult onto others…
  
  Report this comment
Excomunicatedmarine
Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:22pm
HUMM Makes me wonder
Do these ACLU types figure they can argue their way into eternity ? Or do they just discount it ?
ACLU:” But Sir, the constitution……mis-interpreted….says ……..”
God: “And you believe this piece of paper, while a wonderful try by man, should tell ME how to act ?”

Enjoy the wienie roast.

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- Freedomlover_US
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 8:16pm
  No, atheists believe their life is finite and there is no afterlife. Really not complicated at all.
  
  They also believe that constitution protects them from government sponsored religion.
  
  Report this comment
- Chuck Stein
  Posted on March 15, 2013 at 1:19am
  @ Excomunicatedmarine
  As Freedomlover has answered you: “they just discount it” (an afterlife).
  Then again . . . IF it (religion) is all so much emptiness to atheists THEN why is it such a big deal to them. I don’t “believe in” a bunch of superstitions (horseshoes, four leaf clovers and rabbits’ feet for “good luck”, for example) — but I don’t get bent out of shape if someone “knocks on wood.” Atheists just don’t seem very secure in their position. Sort of like Muslims killing people who leave Islam: if your ideas are so strong, then why so energetic in stopping others from following their own beliefs?
  
  Report this comment
thegreatcarnac
Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:17pm
The governor needs to keep sticking by his guns. Even if the ACLU wins a few rounds…don’t stop praying. How is it going to look if the ACLU trash puts a Governor in jail for praying. This guy will not be in jail long and in 4 years he will be president.

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Ghandi was a Republican
Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:17pm
If it’s Islam – the aclu is right. Islam seeks to destroy our freedom of religion. If it is Hindi, Christianity, Buddhism, or any true religion — the ACLU is miserably mistaken.
This being the case- I don’t care what religion is praying as long as it IS a religion and it threatens no other religion. Islam admittedly is not one of those.

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- JGraham III
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:27pm
  Since the sheriff of Rowan County is the highest elected law enforcement official there, the feds and the state patrol have to have his permission to do anything in his county. If he is on the side of the commissioners, then this could become something to watch closely. I would love to see this whole scheme the ACLU is running run up against the Supreme Court. “We ought to obey God rather than men” the Apostles said when called on the carpet by the ACLU of their day (the Sanhedrin). God prevailed; but these commissioners need not to flinch and stare down the rectal orifices from the ACLU.
  
  Report this comment
- pragmaticpatriot
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:35pm
  islam in humans is like rabies in dogs
  
  Report this comment
Smokey_Bojangles
Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:15pm
I do respect SOME of what the ACLU does,but how does denying someone their first amendment rights validate my own? If someone wanted to lead a prayer,I just would not participate. It is not hard to do.
“And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.”

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- Chuck Stein
  Posted on March 15, 2013 at 1:20am
  Exactly. There really is no injury here. Get on with life.
  
  Report this comment
tzion
Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:15pm
I’m officially renaming them the AACLU, Americans Against Civil Liberties United.

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- The_Jerk
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:29pm
  Rabi Lapin and I might call them the JACLU for a more specific reason.
  
  Report this comment
- tzion
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 7:17pm
  @jerk
  You’ve been using that quote for a while and yet you still haven’t grasped the true meaning of it. The key word in that entire sentence is “Temple”. What is a Temple? For Jews who have actually stuck to tradition, the only Temple recognized is the one in ruins in Jerusalem. The Reform Jews came along and argued that religion should not be permitted to stand in the way of progress. They abandoned Jewish cultural heritage going as far as to reject all Jewish ideas of messianism. Since they no longer looked the Temple being restored they used the term temple to refer to their shuls.
  
  So at best all you’ve done is say that those who sought to fundamentally change Judaism and Jewish culture are the same people attacking Americanism and American culture. Simple truth is that Judaism has been under attack by these “culture changers” for the better part of 2 centuries.
  
  Of course there are still many Jews who haven’t given in to this peer pressure and are constantly trying to turn the direction of Jews in general around. But of course you hate those Jews too because they’re the ones with the supposedly “anti-Christian” Talmud, right? Strangely though, it doesn’t seem bother you that all those “true Torah Jews” you’re always citing justify their opposition to Israel solely upon the Talmud. Is that because they express an opinion you see as “correct”? Kind of like how you recently asked me why i don’t defend a text I don’t believe in?
  
  Report this comment
red_white_blue2
Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:11pm
Even if the court ordered me, I would not stop. I would invoke case law dating back to the revolution that actively called for prayer by members of government bodies. I would then state that case law and the Constitution are on my side..what are you going to do about it. Put me in jail–I’ll still pray. Some smart attorney will get me out. You won’t stop me.
It’s funny how liberal keep citing the constitution for prayer, when no where in it is is said that prayer can’t be done in public or in the presence of government. If anything, it says the opposite. I would love to throw down a copy of it in front of one of these morons..and say, show me!!

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- binge_thinker
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 5:05pm
  “Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation, to select and prefer Christians for their rulers” John Jay
  
  John Jay was one of the founding fathers of the United States, he also was president of the Continental Congress. He, along with Alexander Hamilton and James Madison wrote the Federalist Papers. He was also the first Chief Justice of the United States.
  
  Report this comment
AlansTigg
Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:08pm
so let me see if I understand this, as a person of faith I should refrain from any expressions of that faith in front of a person who is not of faith because it might upset them and make them feel excluded…however a person who is not of faith is perfectly within their rights to insult faith loudly and aggressively in the presence of believers and any upset feelings are to be ignored?

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- john vincent
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:10pm
  -cant argue with that, so I may as well support it-
  
  Report this comment
- Freedomlover_US
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 8:22pm
  No, as a government official, you cannot sponsor a religion in your official actions.
  
  Report this comment
walnutportconservative
Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:05pm
I was just at a borough meeting where there seems to be a similar battle. I am not sure how to deal with this. I would suggest the answer being to allow for the moment of silence. Pray as you walk into the meetings. Pray silently while preparing to speak. I was refreshed when they prayed, but later found out that there sre some taking issue. As a Christian, I don’t want to endure any other prayer than the prayer in the name of Christ. This topic will just advance the Islamists agenda, I fear.

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- Ghandi was a Republican
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:19pm
  Too bad. this is America. As long as it is not Islam or any other culture that threatens people’s right to practice their religion they should get an equal 10 seconds or so. What we need to understand is that Islam is not a religion no matter what they call themselves.
  
  Report this comment
watashbuddyfriend
Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:00pm
Ok, Vice Chairman Craig Pierce’s, you said:

“I’ve prayed all my life, I’m not going to change now,” but, you have to agree that the prayer only is self-serving, and has no benefit to another, just yourself! When one comes to God via Jesus Christ, after confession of sins, and in sync with God, you benefit, and you are the only one!

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- The_Jerk
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:09pm
  This is a 2000 year old war.
  
  Report this comment
- Freunlaven
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:44pm
  Then apparently you have no concept whatsoever of the Catholic concept of prayer, if you believe it is entirely self serving.
  
  Report this comment
- watashbuddyfriend
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 5:33pm
  @Freunlaven
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:44pm
  
  “Then apparently you have no concept whatsoever of the Catholic concept of prayer, if you believe it is entirely self serving.”
  
  Yes, Freunlaven, I read you and wonder why any white/caucasian (not-Itallian) would follow the route?
  
  Report this comment
- Abrahams_Ranger
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 5:41pm
  Just want to say that my Mother’s prayers and my wife’s prayers were not self serving when they prayed that I would return from Vietnam. Nor were prayers self serving when Jesus prayed to the Father saying “Father, forgive them for they no not what they do”.
  
  Report this comment
- From Virginia
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 6:45pm
  Not true – it also exhorts and edifies those around you. And if I was a representative I’d sure want help from the Almighty to guide my decisions – decisions that don’t just impact me – but millions of others as well.
  
  Report this comment
- BeeAlert
  Posted on March 18, 2013 at 4:54pm
  Nobody who understands prayer would “have to agree” with that. People frequently pray for others, or for wisdom to excercise their responsibilities toward others. And they expect results! I would rather have leaders who pray for wisdom than ones who think they know it all already, or who have to take a poll to know how the wind is blowing.
  
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Cavallo
Posted on March 14, 2013 at 1:57pm
So public officials are no longer allowed to express their faith in public. Or only SOME public officials are not allowed to express their faith in public, or is it only some public officials are only allowed to express certain types of faith in public?

The ACLU has turned the first amendment into a sick joke.

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RIGS
Posted on March 14, 2013 at 1:54pm
THE ACLU (ASS CRACK LICKERS UNION) are a bunch of commie nutbags.

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- gyro
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:00pm
  lol :)
  
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- Rayblue
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:23pm
  Top drawer…
  
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Daveed
Posted on March 14, 2013 at 1:54pm
Why is the ACLU afraid of prayer, grandmother’s in their rocking chairs praying for all their children?
How is that a big threat? I guess it could be construed as a threat if they hate God and liberty. Where anything moral and Just, Constitutional and spiritual wisdom when tells tell to restrain from the “if it feels good do it) anything goes mentality.

Keep praying brothers, the battle is not of flesh and blood but of spiritual darkness. We are praying for you also. God Bless you with victory for being faithful.

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The_Woofster
Posted on March 14, 2013 at 1:50pm
Where is the ACLU on Second Amendment rights?!

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- The_Jerk
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:00pm
  They pick and choose for effect. They are not mindless. They have a purpose.
  
  Report this comment
- Smokey_Bojangles
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:25pm
  Technically their fight against unlawful searches and seizures does protect the Second Amendment. Never once have I hear one say,”If You are Carrying a Fire Arm,give up your 4th and 5th amendment rights.”
  Check out http://www.flexyourrights.org/
  They even support Jury Nullification for unjust laws. It is just that in this case they seem to think denying someone their 1st amendment validates their own. I still do not understand why they think Al Gore’s religion does not apply. We spend billions of tax dollars to appease his green god. Guess it is all in the battles they pick and choose to fight?
  
  Report this comment
Just_Us2
Posted on March 14, 2013 at 1:49pm
Seems like the problem here is too many liberals infringing on the rights of others with intolerance and bigotry. Time to cull the herd.

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- The_Jerk
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 1:59pm
  You are looking at the symptoms, not the cause.
  
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alfoss1540
Posted on March 14, 2013 at 1:46pm
Makes no sense. The ACLU fighting against someone’s right to speak.

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- The_Jerk
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 1:58pm
  Makes sense once you’ve done your homework and realize what this is all about. They want to change your culture, your traditions. They must take your freedoms in order to accomplish that goal. You have an enemy, and fear identifying that enemy. Your body can not fight a cancer that it does not recognize.
  
  Report this comment
- AvengerK
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:25pm
  It makes perfect sense if you understand soft and hard Marxism. Both need to erode traditional family units and traditional institutions in order to supplant them with fealty to the state.
  This is Marxism 101. The belief is that if you remove people’s sense of belonging to these groups, then they will need to look to something else..voila..the state. This was the thinking in Soviet Russia, Maoist China and Hitler’s Germany. Funnily enough….what happened immediately after the fall of the Soviet Union? The Russian Orthodox church quickly flourished. And what’s the biggest growing religion in China today despite state obstruction? Christianity.
  
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- The_Jerk
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:43pm
  AvengerK, you can not fully understand Marxism until you understand Marx.
  
  Report this comment
watashbuddyfriend
Posted on March 14, 2013 at 1:45pm
While, at this writing, I have no use for the ACLU, but these ‘public prayers’ have no affect on the outcome of events! Get hold of some Bible Doctrine!

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IMCHRISTIAN
Posted on March 14, 2013 at 1:45pm
When your life is over would you rather face Judgement Day or would you want the alternative just nothing to look forward too. I prefer to look forward to God and the life after death that has been prepared for me.

Without prayer you may not get answers to your questions and the help you need in your working or home life. With prayer answers will come (and not always the way you may think).

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Gonzo
Posted on March 14, 2013 at 1:43pm
Who is being harmed ACLU? Was anyone injured or was their property taken from them? You’re free to hate God all you want, but don’t try and take Him away from the rest of us.

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- The_Jerk
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 1:55pm
  Gonzo, you’re looking in the wrong place. It is about power, centralizing power, stealing our culture, our traditions, our freedoms. It is a war, a cultural war that has consequences. We have no fear identifying Muslims as our enemy, so why the inhibition on Jews? How many examples do you need?
  
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- Just_Us2
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 1:57pm
  It is not about being harmed, it is about the government not being the one and only god. The government is a jealous god and you will not put any god before it. All other gods must die. The ACLU will not rest until their god is the only god left. Didn’t the Soviets do this?
  
  Until we love freedom more than our lives this will continue.
  
  Report this comment
- Gonzo
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:15pm
  I know what I’m looking at and I know who the ACLU is. I also know that it’s their Communist/Socialist/Progressive ideology that is the enemy.
  
  Report this comment
- The_Jerk
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:27pm
  Then for a consistency, stop calling/identifying Muslims as the enemy. It’s not the Muslim, it’s their ideology… per you.
  
  Report this comment
- Gonzo
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:44pm
  I don’t think Communist/Socialist/Progressive ideology is Jewish ideology, I do admit that if I were profiling, I would know who to look for.
  
  Report this comment
- The_Jerk
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:53pm
  Gonzo, splian the kibbutz. Splain Hess and Marx. Splain these results: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_American_politicians
  
  Coincidence?
  
  Report this comment
- Gonzo
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 3:10pm
  My only argument with you is on branding. Using your branding, nobody will listen.
  
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The_Jerk
Posted on March 14, 2013 at 1:40pm
Per Rabbi Daniel Lapin, “The ACLU’s leadership is almost reminiscent of a temple board meeting.”

How many examples does one require before they see the truth, the cause, the reason?

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- tzion
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:12pm
  A person’s opinion is now indisputable fact? Of course nearly all your arguments involve you interpreting data to support your own argument regardless of whether that interpretation is the only one that fits the data.
  
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- The_Jerk
  Posted on March 14, 2013 at 2:24pm
  Tzion, no. It’s one more opinion pointing to the truth. You deny, is that an opinion?
  
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TEIN
Posted on March 14, 2013 at 1:39pm
Silly people!!! When will you learn!! You can only pay homage in public to the federal state!! It has given you everything you have..money, home, food…you didn’t build anything!!!! You can not succeed on your own!! Without the state you would have nothing..God???? God who??? That being gave you nothing so to pay homage to that being is an offense to the state and the enlightened ones!!! That is why there are laws against such things!!! It is the lions den to you who pray openly to God!!!

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jackact
Posted on March 14, 2013 at 1:36pm
Eventually NC will morph into Colorado and the ACLU will grow in power.
This is one of the many wonderful things than happen when liberals make an exodus into your state.
Right, Vermont?

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