MSNBC host Chris Matthews sparred with Ted Cruz national spokesman Rick Tyler Thursday over the Texas senator’s decision to go after 2016 rival Donald Trump for having “New York values.”

“Rick, are you part of the ‘I hate New York’ crowd?” Matthews asked.

“I love New York, you got to be kidding me,” Tyler replied. “We love New York.”

“It has bad values?” Matthews pressed. “What happened to Billy Joel and the New York state of mind. I thought we liked that!”

“No one said they were bad values, they are just different values,” Tyler said.

“Hold on! You are pulling back,” Mathews asserted. “You’re saying it’s not a statement of bad values to say, ‘He’s got New York values’?”

“Chris, they are different values,” Tyler said, attempting to explain. “It’s Steve King or Peter King. In Texas, we can have open carry. You can’t have a weapon in New York City, you’d be arrested. It’s the people they send to Congress. New York sends liberals. Texas sends conservatives. It’s attitudes on marriage. It’s attitudes on—”

Matthews interjected.

“How long did it take you to come up with this Rick?” he asked. “How many hours of desperate struggle and spin led to, ‘We’re not knocking this guy for having New York values’?”

The two continued to spar throughout the remainder of the segment which ultimately ended with a frustrated Matthews accusing Tyler of continuing so spin the issue.

“By the way, I can talk for everyone watching right now. Everyone watching knows that you are hiding,” the MSNBC host said.

“No, c’mon,” Tyler replied.

“I’ve learned how to do spin in my time to,” Matthews quipped back. “That’s what you’re doing.”

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