Over 500-Year-Old Gutenberg Bible ‘Companion’ Book Turns up in Utah
- Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:13am by
Jonathon M. Seidl
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The over 500-year-old book.
Book appraiser Ken Sanders is used to having to tell people what they think is a rare find is no more than a sentimental treasure. Not so last week, when a tiny fundraiser turned up an extraordinary find over 500 years old.
“Usually at these kind of things you are mostly being polite to people and disappointing them,” Sanders told KTSU-TV. “A gentleman walked in and said I‘ve got a really important book here and I’m sitting there rolling my eyes and thinking, ‘yeah, sure you do.‘ And then he opens it up and it’s a Nuremberg Chronicle from 1494.”
According to KTSU, the Nuremberg Chronicle is about as old as Gutenberg’s Bible. It was actually created to be an illustrated companion to that Bible, and is one of the oldest books ever printed:
“Outside of museums I‘ve never seen one before in my life and I most assuredly didn’t expect to find this book in Sandy, Utah today,” Sanders said.
The book’s owner, who wants to remain anonymous, said he wants to sell the book to a museum so others can enjoy it.
According to Sanders, the book is worth over $100,000.
(H/T: CNN)*
*CNN labeled the book as 600 years old. We have changed our story to reflect that the book is closer to 500 years old.
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Comments (298)
jacobstroubles
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:40amYou are correct.. ALL Christians need to beware of the Mormon Doctrine.
Everybody should be aware of what they think is going to happen after the 7 years of tribulation and how the Mormon men will be rewarded for their good deeds!
Do your homework!
Report Post »jacobstroubles
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:36amSnowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:29am
Just one thing, do not let the administration get their hands on this book; for they will let the leftist MSNBC spin meisters use and rewrite it to show the ‘self annointed one’ being the ‘saviour of his own nightmares for America.’
AMEN TO THAT!
It’ too late now anyways…something big and ugly is about to hit the US, and he/it will be exposed, but it’s tooo late. he/it wont be going anywhere..a reward for services rendered will be given.
Pray that The Church is Raptured before the conclusion of this Spring!
Report Post »sbenard
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:25am@Poverty.Sucks
“Behold, they will crucify him; and after he is laid in a sepulchre for the space of three days he shall rise from the dead, with healing in his wings; and all those who shall believe on his name shall be saved in the kingdom of God. Wherefore, my soul delighteth to prophesy concerning him, for I have seen his day, and my heart doth magnify his holy name.”
Report Post »“And he also has shown unto me that the Lord God, the Holy One of Israel, should manifest himself unto them in the flesh; and after he should manifest himself they should scourge him and crucify him, according to the words of the angel who spake it unto me.”
The Book of Mormon
There are 9 references in the Book of Mormon to the crucifixion of Christ. Here are others in canon of the Church:
“I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who was crucified for the sins of the world, even as many as will believe on my name, that they may become the sons of God, even one in me as I am one in the Father, as the Father is one in me, that we may be one.”
“Then shall they know that I am the Lord; for I will say unto them: These wounds are the wounds with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. I am he who was lifted up. I am Jesus that was crucified. I am the Son of God.”
“That he came into the world, even Jesus, to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness;”
(References from other canon of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, often known as the “Mormon Church”)
There are at least 20 references in the Church’s holy writ to the crucifixion of Christ!
Oil_Robb
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:44amYou notice Mormons always use thier own writings to justify thier argument…they really dont think the Bible is the word to which we live by……..
PS…If Josepf Smith was a Prophet of God…what was he doing in Carthage Jail? He would be the only marter to gop out with “GUNS a BLAZING”….and why was Joseph Smith as a prophet a member of the Local Masonic lodge?….and then we have the whole Poligamy issue…..How can a Profet of God have the numerous under aged wives he had?…and then conviently God changed his mind when the USA gov banned Poligamy in the 1890′s
Its a CULT people …Like Glenn says…“dont believe me check it out for yourselves”
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 1:49pmActually, OILY_BOB, when discussing scriptural subjects with non-membrers, the LDS typically back up their beliefs using the New Testament primarily and then sometimes the Old Testament. It is rare that we resort to the Book of Mormon or other LDS scriptures in order to defend our basic beliefs. The Book of Mormon is best described as another testament of Christ, being a third witness.
Report Post »Big Tuna
Posted on April 12, 2011 at 4:46pmOILY_BOB, who did God make his covenant with and how many wives did he have? Hint, think Old Testament.
Report Post »mom4times
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:19am@Snowleopard: read your post about the school lunches. Thanks for the info. I will definetly check this story out and make sure it doesn’t happen to our school. Although i’m in NY…..the dems still run the show and I‘m sure it wouldn’t be long before it pops up in our news here.
Report Post »JUDGEMENTDAY
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:18amPoverty Sucks is the type of person that looks to buy a Chrysler at a Ford dealership. Always going to the wrong source to get information.
Report Post »tketterer
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 1:08pmThis is such a typical response from every recruiter of mormonism. My God man DO research outside of what you have been told. Did you ever think that the reason they tell you NOT to go to the internet that they are hiding something. I am truly amazed at what I find out that your leaders don’t tell you from masons to papyrus to newark holy stones to three heavens to becoming a god to having eternal palygamy.
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 1:43pmTKETTER is most likely another name for the same dufus. Nobody tells mormons not to go to the internet or research other sources. In fact LDS leadership encourages the LDS people to read other sources and to read many good books, regardless of the source. Of course, the first focus is to study the scriptures, but we are also encouraged to be well read on other subjects too.
Report Post »tketterer
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 2:07pmkmichal Dufus? Nice. Almost everytime I bring up something I have discovered by my research and have brought it to the recruiters after they have supplied the “milk” without the “meat” to who they are “recruitin”, they say “Where”d you get that, the internet? That’s like going to a ford dealership to buy a chevy.” So fi I am a dufus for quoting you mindless cultists, then what does that make you? The supplier of the dufusness!!
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 2:18pmTketter, yes, you would be a dufus if you believed everything you read on the internet. However, it is also true that LDS do no shy away from using the internet. You are just making dufus like blanket statements that turn out to be blatantly false.
Report Post »APEXIdaho
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 3:37pmThe three heavens acually comes from the New Testament, 1 Corinthians 15:40-42 and 2 Corinthians 12:2-4
Report Post »sbenard
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:14am@Poverty.Sucks
Exodus 20:16, Exodus 23:1, Deut. 5:20
Report Post »“Thou shalt not bear false witness.”
Deane
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:34ami guess lots of people will see obama in hell then!
Report Post »Al J Zira
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:11amThe only thing I’ve ever found at garage sales are strange people. Not much value there.
Report Post »DeltaHawk
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:08amBet it’s a fake! Mormons, Jehovah‘s Witness’ and Muslims shoiuld read the Bible instead of writing their own books. Just a way to justify what they want to change. God’s word is immutable and eternal. False prophets are a dime a dozen in every country of the world.
Report Post »tersky
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:23amMormons study the Bible, the whole thing, just as often as the Book of Mormon. In Sunday School, we rotate every year, Old Testament, New Testament, Book of Mormon and Church History. The youth do the same routine is early morning seminary. I have been encouraged since eighth grade to read ALL our scriptures every year, which can be done with just three chapters a day. And mot years I have managed to do that.
You really shouldn’t challenge the beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints when there are plenty of us here to clear things up. If you really want to convince people that we don’t believe in Christ or the Bible or that we worship a different god, you probably should go hang out with other ignorant people someplace where we won’t find you. Does Huckabee have a website?
Report Post »Oil_Robb
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:53amIN THE MORMONS OWN SCRIPTURES
JESUS HAD THREE WIVES
Journal of Discources Vol.II Pages 81-81 page 210 Vol IV page259
dont take my word for it like Glenn always says….The Mormons teach JEASU CHRIST had 3 wives…..this is from thier own scriptures
Report Post »Bearfoot
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:57amDeltaHawk,
Do you really believe Jehovah’s Witnesses do not read their Bibles?
Report Post »Who are you talking to, where do you get your information, from your Uncle Joe?
You speak foolishly and come across as ignorant.
kmichaels
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 1:39pmOIL_ROBB must be a sad pathetic human being, seeing that he takes pleasure out of purposefully lying his butt off.
Mormons do not teach that Christ had even one wife, allow they allow for the possibility that he could have been married, they do not teach such as either doctrinal or scriptural.
OIL_ROBB may some day be found on the internet, wearing a thong, and showing off one of his handguns. My guess is he goes to small community college but people, both students and teachers shun him.
Report Post »ghost-of-elvis
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 2:28pmGod shall send them a strong delusion that they may believe a lie…. I put joseph smith and mohammed in the same category of false prophet
Report Post »NeoFan
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 3:14pmOk for the sake of this discussion lets assume the anti-mormons, anti-JW‘s here are correct and the JW’s and the mormons are evil cults.
Why do they come to a “Evil Mormon Cult” website for information. Why would they listen to Glenn Beck an Evil Cult follower?
Why not get there news from those that are not deceived from chuches preaching evacuation theology? Like Benny Hinn?
Or Oral “I need six million dollars or God is going to wack me” Roberts?
or Jim and Tammy faye Baker? How about Ted Haggard? Jimmy Swaggart?
Robert Tilton? How about Paul Crouch? Beth Moore? Hank Hanegraaff? Joyce Meyer?
Which one of these has more truth than the Evil Mormon Glenn?
Should we only listen to those that refuse to preach the gospel unless they get lots of money for it?
Is that how we know they are telling the truth because they wont do it unless they get paid for it?
Where are the truth tellers that we should be listening to? What time is there show on?
Does the seven hundred club have better more truthful info than Glenn?
Why do Glenn‘s views line up with the tea party but you don’t hear the same sentiments from any of these so called truth tellers?
Is there not enough money in saving the country? Do they need to be paid more before they will tell us similar truth?
Does none of it matter because of the coming evacuation? Are you there? Have you been evacuated already?
Should we all be saying the prayer of Jabez? Or maybe there is another vain repetition we should be chanting?
Tell us the name of the real truth tellers so we can do some fact checking.
Please enlighten us when your done exposing “The Cults”.
Report Post »proudconservative
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 3:52pm@NEOFAN,
Many good points and if they are out there with the late hour we are at why are they delaying this vast resource of knowledge, wisdom and guidance?
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 4:48pmI was respectful before and will ask my question again. When Jesus walked the earth, there were simply Jews and non-Jews (Gentiles). Certainly, other pagan religions existed, to which people early Christian tried to spread the Good News. Why is there any need today to associate with any particular religion? Why isn’t Jesus and His Word (the Bible) sufficient?
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 4:57pmSorry…..I meant to say “denomination” not “religion”. :-)
Report Post »proudconservative
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 6:26pm@COPATRIOTS,
I would like you to have an answer to your question and I would refer you to Mormon.org. I will be the first to admit that while I have a testimony of the truthfulness of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints I am not always comfortable going into to much detail on a forum such as this as we have been commanded by The Lord to not cast our pearls before swine as they will trample that which you hold sacred and turn again and attack you. This is not referring to you or most people on this site but there are some who look for every opportunity to attack our church and they know who they are and while I do not mind honest debate you cannot have an intelligent and honest discussion without them jumping in to ridicule and mock. That is why I am referring you to that website.
Report Post »Oil_Robb
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 6:34pmYes….. KMICHEALS….great come back…I take your own writings and all you have is ……..a thong referece?…you didnt learn a thing on your manditory mission?…and all those times that you bear your testimoney thats all that you can come up with?…..”I believe that Joseph Smith is a true prophet of god ..blah blah blah…self brain washing….like all the cults do
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 6:44pmOily_Bob, with you acting like both a swine and a dog, and being the brain-dead bigot that you tend to be, do you really expect me to waste my best comments on some dimwitted troll like you? Seriously, you are an arse with some serious mental disorders. So I expect to hear about how you went crazed and shot somebody anytime now. You have serious problems.
Report Post »Oil_Robb
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 7:01pmKMICHEALS….like I said before…..thats all you can come up with?…I need verse and scripture lad….Im even useing your own text…cut out the personal lie crap and do your reaserch…prove where im wrong…I stand by what I type….bring it lad…youre the anointed race
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 7:14pmThank you, ProudConservative. I am honestly not challenging or attacking anyone’s faith, beliefs or denomination nor am I being argumentative. I simply can’t understand the need for anything further than Jesus and the Bible. It is just my humble and personal opinion but……..if that was enough for the early Christians and those who walked with Jesus who wrote the New Testament, it is certainly is sufficient for me. It also seems that dividing ourselves up into different sects (be it Catholic, Baptist, LDS, etc.) as Christians tears us apart as certainly seemed to happen on this forum today. Again, just my personal observation and how I came to my decision to be non-denominational and simply a follower of Christ. May God Bless each of you!
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 7:36pmNo Oily_Bob, you need to quit being such a bigoted *****. Chapter and verse? Thou shalt not be a lying little *****. Hows that Bob?
Report Post »Jabber
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:15pmOil Robb-
The “journal of discourses” from which you claim to quote that “Jesus had three wives” is NOT considered to be the canon or “scripture” of the LDS Church. You can’t even get that right.
Report Post »jayskat
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:37pmHi COPATRIOT – I appreciate your honest question. I believe that the answer has to do with prieshood authority. When Christ was on the earth, He established His church. Not only did He call 12 apostles, but he “ordained” them (Mark 3:14). Specific authority was given to them to act in His name – to baptize, for example. The authority was given by Christ himself. The only other way to have valid authority, if not at the hands of Jesus himself, is to receive it from someone who does have it – as in the case where the 11 apostles remaining after Judas’ death ordained Matthias as the newest apostle(Acts 1:21-26). The church that has that authority is Christ’s church. Which is not to say anything bad about other churches/faiths – including non-Christian. I believe the vast majority of people on this planet are trying to do the best they can with what knowledge they have, and our Father in Heaven will only hold us accountable for the truths we know. I grew up in a church that believed the priesthood authority was unbroken from the time Christ gave it to Peter and the other apostles. As I got older, it became clear – historically – that the true chain of authority had been lost. The persecution and martyrdom of Christians was devestating, and although good Christians tried to continue Christ’s teachings, etc., corrupt men and ideas changed “the church” for the worse. (There are ‘bad apples’ in every church/faith….take Judas Iscariot for example). This loss of authority was prophesied by several prophets and apostles (ie: Acts 20:29 and 2 Thes. 2:3). A restoration was also prophesied: Acts 3:19-21. I believe that restoration has taken place, and I now belong to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. No matter where we are, searching for truth is always worthwhile.
Report Post »Big Tuna
Posted on April 12, 2011 at 4:39pmOIL_ROBB lies. Guess he doesn’t believe in the Bible. That or he likes burning.
Report Post »O_bother
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:04amIf indeed this is an authentic, 500+ yr old relic, why is this supposed expect handling it with his bare hands???
Report Post »Eblaze44
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:00am@poverty.sucks Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:30am
“How has this book escaped the fire? Hope it’s authentic! Does it reference Jesus Crucifixion on the cross! (contrary to mormonism)”
You are so funny. Your brain would fit on the point of a needle, never mind the pinhead. you need to pay attention to YOUR bible. ”
Report Post »Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” Listening to what other people say, not doing your homework (as Glen keeps telling you to do), makes you ignorant when you open your mouth (or hit the keys on your keyboard), and it shows.
Annie Fields
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:59amHow cool is that???????!!!!!!!!!! LOVE that stuff. Damn. I need to get out more, huh?
Report Post »unculturedswine
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:57am@Povery.Sucks Do a little research, there are NUMEROUS mentions of Christ being crucified on the Cross is the very-widely-available Book of Mormon, and countless General Conference talks by Church Authorities, and millions of lessons echoing the same in church buildings around the world.
Report Post »proudconservative
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:56am@POVERTY.SUCKS,
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints does believe that Jesus was crucified on the cross. I am a member and know this as a fact, but I am not in anyway an official spokesman for the Church. Just letting you know that I am pretty confident in what I am saying but in no way to be taken as an official statement. You may be confusing this with the fact that you do not see crosses on our Chapels. The reason for this as best as I understand it is that it is showing special consideration to our Heavenly Father. If you had a son who you loved and he was murdered would you want his life’s purpose and memory to be symbolized by the murder weapon? We believe very much that Jesus Christ is the Son of Heavenly Father and that his mission was to come into the world and establish his church and by remaining perfect, spotless and without blemish while in the world give his life as a sacrifice for all of mankind and those that are willing to take upon themselves his name and follow his example can receive eternal life. I will leave it at this but just wanted to clear this up as I am in no way trying to be confrontational with you but wanted to clear up a misconception.
Report Post »sbenard
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:08amIt is also because Mormons want to think of Christ as a resurrected, living Being, whose influence is on-going and here now, rather than a dead or dying one.
Report Post »proudconservative
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:26am@SBENARD,
I wholeheartedly agree with your addition. I was just trying to address his statement that we did not believe Jesus died on the cross, but your addition is actually a more clear understanding of our reasons for why the cross is not displayed or a prominent symbol of our Church.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 2:25pm“If you had a son who you loved and he was murdered would you want his life’s purpose and memory to be symbolized by the murder weapon?”
Given that the reason he came down from heaven was to die on that cross, John 18:37, it certainly is logical that the cross would be the perfect symbol of God’s love. Gal. 6:14, “But far be it for me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ”
The way you speak of the crucifixion you would think it was something that God regretted.
Report Post »proudconservative
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 2:59pmISLESFORDIAN,
God did what was absolutely necessary for our salvation it was a very difficult experience and choice for even God being how terribly that his son suffered beyond any suffering ever endured as by a miracle every grief, illness, suffering, pain, sin and anguish that would ever befall mankind he bore for us individually. This was almost beyond endurance for even God the greatest of all to bear, so no regret is the wrong word but you do not need to question our motives on this I am telling you that it is out of our tremendous love and respect and understanding of how difficult this experience was for even God the greatest of all that we concentrate on the victory and resurrection and eternal walk after the cross. The mission, victory and love of Christ and the eternity of his Reign is not done justice by a cross symbolism that is a beginning but the focus should be on everything else that entails.
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 3:07pmGalations 6:
14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
It seems that the correct answer is that neither displaying the cross is worthwhile nor not displaying the cross is worthwhile, depending on the spirit of the person behind it.
How often do we see some of the most openly wicked people with a cross dangling from their neck while wearing scantily clad clothing and half their body full of tatoos and body piercings?
There is no scripture that teaches that God’s people will place crosses on top of their buildings. The issue is one of spirit and what nature of person and or church it is, based upon it’s fruits.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 5:52pmYour reasoning makes no sense, for God never said that he hated the sign of the cross or that it wounds his feelings. What nonsense! Paul was determined to know nothing but Christ and him crucified. Jesus told us that we must also be willing to pick up our own cross.
The crosss is central to the message of not just what Jesus did but of the nature of our following in Jesu’ footsteps.
You don’t need to have a biblical command to have crosses on your churches. All known churches from the beginning have done so. The burden should be on you to show why you would NOT want to have crosses in and on churches as a witness to our salvation.
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 6:04pmNo IslesFordian, the cross is not central to God’s message, regarding Christ. The atonement is central, the wood or metal symbol is not. Yours is nothing more than a sectarian idea, whether a longtime tradition of man or not. And since when is tradition a big plus regarding truth? Jesus abhorred the mainstream traditions of his day. Are you saying that since his death there have not been any vain traditions creep in? You getting all uppity over the need for physical symbols is not unlike Jews getting uppity about the need for circumcisions.
Report Post »proudconservative
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 6:16pmWell if I were to determine how Christian a church is by how prominent a display of the cross is then I would be of the Catholic faith as they are by far the most diligent about displaying the cross and have a depiction of Jesus prominently being crucified upon it. You have been given enough information right here with the replies from others and myself to have a good understanding of how we believe in the crucifixion of Jesus Christ and how we believe in his resurrection among other of our doctrine all replied to in independence of each other, each of us understanding that some may confuse our church not displaying a cross and yet we do believe fully in what was accomplished by Christ on the cross. There is no need to take this further I think the point has been made anyone respectful of our religion what was said should suffice. If you cannot understand that basic belief you are not ready for further enlightment.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 8:41pm“The atonement is central, the wood or metal symbol is not.”
And WHAT is the symbol for the atonement? It’s the cross. If you want to talk about uppity I would say calling the universal symbol for Christianity since the beginning a “sectarian” idea and a “tradition of man” is pretty arrogant. On what authority do you call it that? None, only your own.
Just one more reason why real Christians know Mormonism is just a heretical cult.
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on April 13, 2011 at 2:50pmISLESFORDIAN, on what authority do you claim that God requires any physical symbol to represent the atonement of Christ? Are you saying that God also has a favorite symbol representing the resurrection of Christ, easter, the passover, etc? How about his favorite symbol for Christ feeding thousands with a few loaves of bread. You are just assuming that some sectarian tradition of man regarding carrying the cross as a symbol must be accepted as the only way. You are being mostly thoughtless on this issue.
Report Post »tersky
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:55am@poverty.sucks~ Good grief! Where are you getting your information about Mormonism? Media Matters?
Mormons most assuredly believe that Jesus died on the cross; it just didn’t stick. If you’re referring to the fact that we do not use the symbol of the cross, that is because we choose to think of a Living Christ, and because we see the use of the implement of his torturous death as a rather macabre symbol. We also acknowledge that historically, there was nothing unique about a death by crucifixion. What was unique about this death, had nothing to do with the cross. In suffering the excruciating pain of our sins, so much so that his capillaries burst and sent blood draining from every pore… what happened in Gethsemane was indeed unique, and many people overlook that entirely.
Report Post »Loki
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 12:07pmtersky..
Report Post »dont get worked up over these mormon bashers….
they like to point out the “faults” in your faith, but fail to see the faults in their own faith..
how they like to supress the rights other faiths here in the US, but when those minority faiths stand up united, they scream “our rights are being taken away”…
and acting so, they do the work of the progressives out there to tear down our nation…
some wise man once said “We must hang together, gentlemen…else, we shall most assuredly hang separately.”..
live it, learn it, remember it…..
Getten
Posted on April 12, 2011 at 10:01amEither Jesus was ‘right’ or he was mad. But he couldn’t be just misguided.
Report Post »baruch0517
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:54am$100,000. Are you kidding? It’s got to be worth a lot more than that. This is truly amazing.
Report Post »CalvinandHobbes
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 4:32pmTake it into “Pawn Stars” and have them give you an offer…..LOL
Report Post »poverty.sucks
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:51amDoes the Nuremberg Chronicle & Gutenberg’s Bible confirm or contridict The Book of Mormons?
Report Post »tersky
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:07am@povrty.sucks~ Well, I don’t speak or read any German, let alone Old German, but I have read the KJV more times than I can count, cover-to-cover and have never come across anything that contradicted my beliefs. A few spots that seem to contridict LDs beliefs, and even other parts of the Bible, are easily cleared up with an examination of the original Hebrew or Greek, and/or further understanding of the context. My brother is fluent in both Greek and Hebrew (and several other languages as well). He understands Aramaic and Arabic and is functional in those languages as well (contrary to popular belief, Aramaic is not entirely dead.) He has lived and worked all over the Middle East, Mediterranean, West Asia and Europe, and has been helpful in clearing up things better understood when you know the culture, the history, and the original languages.
Report Post »ghost-of-elvis
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 2:21pmgalatians 1:7-9….. false prophet joseph smith
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 2:59pmGalations 1:
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Both Paul and Joseph Smith believed that the information they received came by means of revelation from God.
Report Post »delhoghe
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 4:49pmTERSKY,,,which New Testament verses back up the claim that Jesus had children ?
Report Post »BetterDays
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:51amInteresting comment on Mark Hoffman, MILL. He has quite a reputation for producing things of this nature, in counterfeit form.
Report Post »An interesting note for biblical historians. Martin Luther was able to find only one copy of a bible on which to base his investigation into indulgences in the Catholic church, and that bible was chained to a wall deep in the cells of his monastery.
Another way times have diluted truth : what is today pronounced “prodestent” should be pronounced “protest ent”, as these denominations arose in PROTEST against the false teachings of the Vatican.
tersky
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:59amMark Hoffman HAD quite a reputation… for producing handwritten forged documents. He’s dead though, remember? The creep blew himself up.
Report Post »Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:16amAnother fact most people also forget with Martin Luther is he at first tried to restore the Catholic church from within, to work on changing the errors and falacies that had encroached over the many centuries; when this failed, he went public and nailed his letter of protest with all the 90+ wrongs on them directly to the church door.
So it is in OUR country we are having a Restoration and Refounders movement going on now. Where are the Martin Luthers of our day? Where are the Washingtons and Lincolns?
They are US, We the People of the USA!
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 2:01pmTerskey, Mark Hofmann did not blow himself up. He got injured with his own bomb but lived through it. He was tried for murder, convicted and currently resides in the Utah State Pen.
Report Post »mill
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 4:06pmtersky.. pray tell when this happened.
Report Post »Oil_Robb
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 9:37pmabout 20 years ago…..where have you been under a rock?….got google?
Report Post »Jabber
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:10pmTersky and Oil-
KMICHAELS is correct. Mark Hoffman is alive and is currently serving out his life sentence in the Utah State Prison. You should try that google thing yourselves.
Report Post »4thGenerationWarrior
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:46amI REALLY wish those whom wish to post about Mormon doctrine do their homework first…Mormons believe Christ was crucified on a cross…Just dopey POVERTY.SUCKS!
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:54amDo Mormons believe in the physical resurrection of Christ and recognise his divinity? I am curious, not trying to start anything.
Report Post »MontyRay
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:15amYes and yes Gonzo
Report Post »tersky
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:16am@ Gonzo~ Yes. Atonement for our sins beginning in Gethsemane and continuing through the death on the cross, physical resurrection three-ish days later, eating with the disciples, continuing to teach them for an unknown period of time before ascending back into Heaven, and … going to teach others of His sheep not of that fold, for example in the New World.
This is what the Book of Mormon is about. It covers a small group of refugees (two families and one extra single guy) who left Jerusalem during Jeremiah’s time and settled somewhere in the Americas, the ups and downs of their societies, the visitation of the Savior to these people, after His resurrection, the happiness they enjoyed for generations after that visitation, and their eventual destruction when they turned away from His teachings.
Report Post »Oil_Robb
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:22am@ IMREDOG…..Thanks for speaking the truth brother
Report Post »sbenard
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:31am@ Gonzo. Yes to both questions
We believe in the literal physical resurrection of Christ, and in his divinity as the Son of God and Savior of mankind.
Good, honest question!
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 1:34pmGonzo. Yes, Mormons believe in that Christ died for the sins of mankind, and that he is part of the Godhead. The biggest distinction is that Mormons believe that the GodHead consists of three separate entities that are one is truth, one is spirit, one in the same gospel beliefs but not one in physical form.
Report Post »schmite123oh
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 2:42pmNot to keep this rant going, but, the comment i would like to make is that the books of the bible were all written fairly close together in terms of years. Mormons don‘t wonder about the book of mormon since it was published in the 1800’s??? That is a big gap. Plus Jesus teaches from the old testament books, which correlate with everything in the new testament, i dont understand the fascination of any other biblical origin of books that far removed from the old and new testament books, sorry. I think many should be weary of other christian sects focusing on books outside the old and new testaments. Don’t get me started on the apocryphia!
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 2:55pmSCHMITE123OH
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 2:42pm
Not to keep this rant going, but, the comment i would like to make is that the books of the bible were all written fairly close together in terms of years. Mormons don‘t wonder about the book of mormon since it was published in the 1800’s???
The Book of Mormon, if true, would have been written starting at around 600 BC and then finished some 421 AD, spanning roughly 1000 years.
The Old Testament spans a few thousand years. The New Testament was said to have been written several decades after Christ, up to about 150 years after Christ died.
The time gap between the supposed starting time of the New Testament and the last known writings in the Old Testament was aprx 400 years. Hardly a short amount of time.
The bigger question is why did God stop having his prophets stop writing for these various hundred plus years gaps?
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 3:31pmThanks giys, I am honestly just curious and I appreciate your answers. How about the trinty? Father, Son and Holy Spirit all equal parts of God?
Report Post »delhoghe
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 4:35pmTERSKY…is “three-ish” in Mormon beliefs similar to ‘ a day and a half ” in Catholic beliefs ?
Report Post »Soldiers_Son
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 5:31pmGONZO asked, “How about the trinty? Father, Son and Holy Spirit all equal parts of God?”
Mormons believe that Father, Son and the Holy Ghost (Spirit) are three separate individuals that are one in purpose (the salvation of mankind).
Just as a follow -up as to why this is their belief…
Separate:
1) During the baptism of Jesus, the voice of the Father is heard and the Holy Spirit descended in the form of a dove. (showing all three at the same time as separate)
2) Jesus continually refers to his Father in Heaven as a separate being and even prays to him.
3) Jesus continually declares that he came to do the will of the Father (not his own)
4) Jesus told his deciples to be one, even as he and the Father were one (shows they were one in purpose not necessarily one being).
5) When Stephen was being stoned he looked up and saw Jesus standing on the right hand of God (showing that they were separate).
And there are other scriptures to support this idea depending on your interpretation. This is not to try and convince you that this is correct, but rather to help you understand why Mormons believe as they do, because just as there are scripture to support the idea that God, Son and Holy Spirit are only one being that is split into three roles, there are also scripture to support the idea that they are three separate individuals. In the end it all comes down to your learning, understanding, perspective, and tradition of belief.
Hope that helps some.
Report Post »Oil_Robb
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 6:26pmI see…IMREDOGS….Post was deleted …it was very insightfull….no profanityt..This is a sensitive topic for Glenn……and to think I took GLENN at face value….quit editing Glenn…..let the truth stand alone……even if it offends you
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 8:28pmThanks for your responses gentleman and God bless.you.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:35amI hope that edition is gender nuetral. If not, somebody will have to edit it.
Report Post »mill
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 3:51pmhahaha, unfortunately it might prove true…after all the scrolls were edited
Report Post »stogieguy7
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:33amNot to be a jerk, but it’s KSTU – FOX 13. You have the call letters messed up.
Report Post »tersky
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:00amKSTU! Stu has a TV station named after him! :oP
Report Post »TheWatcher
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:31amRare books like this are fun to talk about, but if you want to really read something good read the book it talks about.
=================
Report Post »http://www.seed catalolg.com
Heirloom seeds, “how God plants His garden.”
Flag
reckless
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:26amThis is probably how the “authentic” Obama birth certificate will show up.
Report Post »pavnvet
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:40amYep amazing, something over 500 years old can be found, but something less than 50 years old is a mystery. Maybe in 500 years someone will unearth O’s birth certificate, college transcripts or passports?
Report Post »MustComment
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:11amLol…
Too funny.
Report Post »Non-sequitur
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:16amI can find the cathedral of cologne without problems, but I’ll be damned if I can find those socks I put in the drier yesterday.
So it’s not unheard of.
Report Post »I-HATE-THE-WORD-DISENFRANCHISE
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 1:45pmThe problem is we won’t be able to read it. Obamma birth certificate will be in farcy or some other language.
Report Post »TRONINTHEMORNING
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:18amI guess the appropriate response would be….”Cool!”
Report Post »foobear
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:17amI’ve seen the Book of Kells, and there’s something kind of neat about seeing books of faith that are really old.
Report Post »louise
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:20amI agree Foobear.
Report Post »When I hold a book that is old in my hands, I always think of all the hands before me that also held it and read it.
I have 2 old bibles from my grand-parents that has notes written in the margins in their own handwriting. They are precious to me.
Susan09
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 2:27pmThey should be Precious, there is nothing older then the “Dead Sea Scrolls” that have been copied. by Scholars of and in the Middle East namely The land called Israel and City Jerusalem Even to this day. That became after much time Translation We have The Lords Book Today. “Holy Bible” Having how many Books? is it 62 Genesis-Revelation. Has been said there are missing books having been found So it has been told. The Holy Bible still remains the only book best seller Word of The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit. In the world Today.
Report Post »mill
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 3:48pmSusan09… gotta get those meds babe….nothing older?? meds please
Report Post »M-Theory
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 4:06pmMaybe Susan09 doesn’t speak English as a first language and is using a translator to try and get her point across…. ?
Report Post »delhoghe
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 4:17pmSUSAN honey..my Bible has 66 books. You really should take an inventory of your meds once in a while in case you might have some that have reached their experation date or are being used more often than the dosing instructions say they should be.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:17amA little math problem. 1494 is less than 518 years ago. Not 600.
Report Post »Gold Coin & Economic News
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:21amI’m hoping to find one of these at a garage sale some day. Probably highly unlikely.
Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:22amI have seen an original Gutenburg bible and heard of this Nuremburg Chronicle that goes along with it, I would love to see it first hand and read it.
Report Post »mill
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:24amUtah is also home to Mark Hofmann….take heed….
Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:29amJust one thing, do not let the administration get their hands on this book; for they will let the leftist MSNBC spin meisters use and rewrite it to show the ‘self annointed one’ being the ‘saviour of his own nightmares for America.’
Report Post »clt1246@aol.com
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:30amI thought it meant that the Gutenberg Bible is 600 years old and that this book was a companion to the 600 year old book maybe printed later.
Report Post »kindling
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:31amHow about is someone photo copy it and less the books to make money. I would buy one. I bet it would bring in way more than $100,000.
Report Post »proudconservative
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:35amWow! almost unbelievable! to say it is the greatest find of Ken Sander‘s career who has spent his life appraising some of the world’s greatest book treasures is very impressive indeed.
Report Post »JRHelgeson
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:46amRE: poverty.sucks
Report Post »Where do you get your information? Mormons absolutely DO believe that Jesus died on the Cross.
sbenard
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:05am@Poverty.sucks:
Jesus’ crucifixion is NOT contrary to Mormonism — but YOU obviously are!
Report Post »poverty.sucks
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:10am@sbenard & JRHelgeson – and the reason for the crucifixion?
Report Post »Deane
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:26amoh gosh not another book to rule over our lives…most people live a life of good without being told how to
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:42am@ SBERNARD
Your comment doesn’t actually answer the question and I would genuinely like to know the answer. I am non-denomination……..believing that in Jesus’ day there were only Jews and Gentiles. I am not a Jew. I don’t understand why people have changed into denominations over the years and not simply follow Jesus and the Bible. But, back to my point, instead of judging them, will you kindly respond with you understand the truth of your beliefs to be. Thank you.
Report Post »exdem
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:45amDid they find a birth certificate in it?? just askin..
Report Post »Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:49am@SBenard;
Indeed, upon the day of Judgment, each of us will see for themselves the truth of our faith, unto our everlasting delight or shame as the cases may be. As an old saying goes “Let God sort them out” upon the faith each person has or does not have.
The bible does specify that salvation is “By Grace, through Faith and not of works lest a man should boast.” also in the same part of James, he explains that works without faith is dead, just as faith without works is dead. Works are the visible showing of faith in action.
On the subject of CULTS, as a Seventh Day Adventist, I still deal with many Christians claiming we are a Cult, the only main differences between us and mainstream christianity is the fact we hold the Sabbath day to be on Saturday instead of Sunday; and the greater majority of us are vegetarians or true vegans.
Report Post »lenavid
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:51am@Tersky
Report Post »All religions are cults. The cults with the largest followings are considered mainstream.
mck05002
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:52am@ Oil_robb, since you claim to know so much about a mormon, how about taking information from the source. I’m a mormon, so you can’t get much more from the source than me. Mormons believe that God alone is the judge of the human race, but that prophets from each dispensation of time will be accountable for the time in which they lived. For example Peter will be accountable to God for what happened while he was the leader of the church after Christ’s death. So as we believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet, he will be accountable for his time as Peter is for his. They will NOT be standing in judgement with God. Judgement will be a very personal one-on-one time with God for every person. We do believe in salvation by faith, but don’t forget that James 2:17 states that “faith without works is dead”. We believe that you must have faith, but that if you have truly accepted Christ, that you will let that faith work in you, to change you, and that change will be visible through your works. We believe that God will save us, only after we have done all that we can do. We do believe that Christ shed his blood for us, hence our 3rd article of faith “We believe that through the atoning blood of Christ all mankind may be saved….” We do claim Jesus is God, he is the God of this earth….I don’t know what else you want from us. We believe he is a member of the Godhead along with Heavenly Father and the Holy Ghost. We accept all scripture as the word of God, so long as it is translated correctly…so our main scriptures are the Bible, Book of Mormon, D&C, and Pearl of Great Price. I teach a Sunday school class (for 6 year olds) and would you believe we talked about Daniel (you know, from the lion’s den and funny thing was the only scriptures we used were the Bible..funny how that happens..) How you get to heaven has very little to do with how much temple work you do…it has everything to do with coming to Christ and turning your heart unto Him. So I have to say, that when you “check it out for yourself” but you faulty sources, you aren’t going to get correct information…how about asking an actual “Mormon” (our church’s name is the church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saint) how much I love and believe in Christ. Just try that next time before you say I’m not a Christian!
Report Post »poverty.sucks
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 11:53am@Tersky – After all the good work of Jesus Christ, he committed suicide? And therefore Mormons celebrate a pageant a.k.a. membership drive? What’s the purpose of the crucifixion and the resurrection?
Report Post »Oil_Robb
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 12:31pm@MILL
What you dont think the Salamader letter was authentic?….lolololo
Report Post »Oil_Robb
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 12:34pm@ SBENARD..
Just a voice in the wildernes….drink the Mormon Kool-aid if you want
Report Post »theonefromabove
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 12:38pmI am always glad when old items and discovered it is exciting.
http://politicalbowl.com – Political Videos
Report Post »delhoghe
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 1:03pmOh me oh my. If only Joseph Smith’s copper tablets could show up in Utah…
Report Post »cinbu
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 1:07pm517 years.
Report Post »Ivan in Phoenix
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 1:18pmI’ve got 3 or 4 of these laying around down in my cellar. Who should I contact?
Report Post »bigdaddybernie
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 1:27pmI follow Brinks trucks around on my day off hoping a bag of cash will fall out !
Report Post »Myrtle K. Linder
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 2:00pmSo What????????
Report Post »Susan09
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 2:57pmthe Scrolls Found in the Caves of the Dead Sea that Men copied as they could from what was found, that gave us the Holy Bible Old, New, Revelation, Book Of The Father,Son, Holy Spirit. 62 books in all. Genesis 1;1: -Genesis 2; 4:- Deteronomy -Malachi 4; Gives Proof Of the New The Gospel of The Only Begotten Son Jesus Christ that was is and has Been Given Having Been babtised By John The Babtist According to His Book John said ; “I need to be Babtised of you,” Jesus having replied; ‘We must fulfill righteousness.”
Report Post »Righteousness for Whom . Maybe those that fell into the abyss while in the Wilderness those spoken of in the Book of Matthew that came out of the Graves at His Resurrection, and also Told of in the Revelation Book Told to have been written By Whom? John. The Bible we have To this day. Still The Word of the Father God,Son Jesus the Ressurrected Christ Jesus of the Virgin Mary, Nazareth?? , Joseph He being from Bethlehem they having to go to pay his taxes, Mary then giving birth in Bethlehem. So it has been taught heard by many. Shepeherds of the Sheep Not In the Winter. maybe fall, maybe spring, Not In the Cold of winter. Shepherds of the Sheep of That land Would not have seen the Sign of His Birth They would not have been Outwith Herding Sheep at winter time. They may have in the fall or spring. I have never been to Israel so I do not Know How Cold It can get. although Sheep have Wool and must be Sheared of their wool in the Spring because of summer heat.
mill
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 3:47pmSusan09 :] lose your meds???
Report Post »UPSETVET
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 4:47pmThe Gutenberg Bible Companion is very old and rare book. It seems to me it would bring a much higher sale mprice than stated in the article of $100,000. Something so rare and old and in such good condition as it appears to be should be worth millions. I’ll bet it will bing a multi-million dollar price tag by the time it’s sold to some rich collector.
Printed in 1494 makes the book 517 years old and printed just 2 years after Columbus discovered America in 1492. How could something, anything, that old and rare only be worth $100,000? If I was the owner I‘s have it auctiioned off at Christie’s. How about $100,000,000? That seems like a more reasonable price tag for the book.
Report Post »UPSETVET
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 5:16pmTO MCK055002 In response to your reply to @ Oil_ robb about Christian salvation, you seemed to lean heavily towards good works. The Bible teaches in Ephesians 2:8-9, ” For by grace are ye saved through faith: and that not of grace and 0% of man’s works. God’s grace is His unmerited favor shown to man. Man doesn’t deserve to be saved but God saves him free of charge without any works done to earn it. It is the FREE GIFT of God to man through Christ Jesus. What could you are I possibly do to merit God’s salvation that He gives freely to those who believe in His only begotten Son Jesus. John 3:16-18. God is God of all or He’s not God at all. God is Sovereign, Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent, He is All powerful, All knowing and Everywhere present at the same time. I don’t think man can improve on that. I‘m not trying to be sarcastic and I certainly don’t won’t to offend you in any way, I just wanted to tell you the truth as God says it and as I believe it.
Report Post »american1st
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 5:17pm@ mill “Mark Hofmann” LOL my first thought as well
Report Post »Oil_Robb
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 6:20pmThey were gold tablets..and according to the dimmensions they were over 300lbs which he held under one arm and killed many indians with the other……..its a cult
Report Post »Physicist_In_Training
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 7:54pmI’ve never seen so many rambling, incoherent posts on the Blaze before now.
Report Post »Mary M. Tebbe
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 8:18pmcopatriots: I’ll add a few things about Mormonism so that you will understand it better.
Report Post »The former president of the Mormon Church Lorenzo Snow said, “As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become.”
Orson Hyde said, “Remember that God our Heavenly Father was perhaps once a child and mortal like we are and rose step by step in the scale of progress, in the school of advancement: has moved forward and overcome until He has arrived at the point where He now is.”
The Mormon Milton R. Hunter wrote: “Mormon prophets have continuously taught the sublime truth that God the eternal father was once a mortal man who passed through the school of earth-life similar to that through which we are now passing. He became God – an exalted being, through obedience to the same eternal gospel truth that we are given opportunity today to obey.”
Apostle Orson Pratt said, “In the heaven where our spirits were born, there are many gods, each of whom has his own wife or wives which were given to him previous to his redemption while yet in his mortal state.” The Mormons believe in the pre-existence of the soul, the polygamous nature of the gods, the brotherhood of Jesus and Lucifer, and the hierarchy of heaven which includes the telestial, terrestrial, and celestial. They believe that their families will have their own planets to live on where they will attain the state of being gods.
The Mormon does not accept the Virgin Birth of Jesus Christ. Brigham Young said that: “When the virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who was the father? He was the first of the human family…Jesus our elder brother was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the Garden of Eden and who is our father in heaven.” Brigham Young said, “When our father Adam came into the Garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body and brought Eve, one of his celestial wives, with him…He is our father and our God and the only God with whom we have to do.” This god of the Mormons is called Adam-god, the first man that came into the Garden of Eden. He is not the God Almighty of the Christian faith. Brigham Young called him Adam-god as a glorified, resurrected or immortal Father. They believe that gods fathered human sons through physical union with chosen women.
Brigham Young opposed the Christian doctrine of salvation. He stated that the blood of Christ will never wipe out the debt for sin that man owed. He said your own blood must atone for it. He said that it is necessary to spill a man’s own blood on earth in order to be saved. He made Jesus Christ’s shed blood of no effect.
The Mormon considers Lucifer a spirit brother of Jesus. He fell from heaven because of his jealousy of Christ. Christ was appointed by the gods to become the redeemer of the race that would fall as a result of Adam’s sin. The Garden of Eden to the Mormon is located in Missouri.
No one of the ***** race may attain priesthood because of a pre-existent soul which is considered evil. The Indians are also accursed because of their allegedly evil activities as far as the Mormons are concerned.
In Mormonism Christ as a pre-existent spirit was not only the brother of the devil, but celebrated his own marriage to both the Marys and to Martha, whereby he could see his seed before he was crucified.
Mormons believe in universal salvation. All people will attain salvation in their different levels of their idea of heaven.
Mormons also believe that the Jews will be gathered to Palestine, and that Mormons will be miraculously gathered together in Missouri before God pours out his judgment. They also believe in the restoration of the ten lost tribes. The Mormons believe that the ten lost tribes are somewhere in the polar region and will be released and transported to Zion where all the riches they have accumulated will be shared with the rest of the saints.
Information comes from the book “The Kingdom of the Cults” by Walter R. Martin. I studied this this afternoon and I hope this is helpful to you COPATRIOTS in understanding Mormonism.
Jabber
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:00pmMary Tebe-
You mean the Walter Martin who lied about his doctorate degree, changed religions repeatedly, and claimed in his own book to be a descendant of Brigham Young with zero evidence to prove that? Yeah…
Which is probably why most of what you wrote that HE wrote that Mormons believe-they actually don’t. Of course it is pertinent to mention at least once that there are several denominations of “Mormons” and that the theology of each one is different. If anyone here really wants to know what the members of the church Glenn belongs to believe, it can be found on the official website of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints at http://www.lds.org. Problem solved.
Report Post »Steverino
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:05pmI may be one sandwich short of a picnic, but I’m having a difficult time figuring out how this turned into a conversation about Mormonism.
Interesting dialog to me. Fascinating and enlightening, but…. isn’t this about a REALLY cool piece of history?
Oh wait – one person made a little sideswipe about this being “found in Utah”. OK. Not like it originally came from Europe or something.
Carry on as the spirit moves you,
Steve
Sheesh!
Report Post »Large Eagle
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:48pmA buddy of mine had an old Bible like that but he threw it away becasue he said some guy named Martin Luther wrote all over it.
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
I CRACK MYSELF UP
Report Post »Oil_Robb
Posted on April 11, 2011 at 10:50pm@ Mary…..Ive compared Mormonism with Orthodox Christianity……and its not even close
Well stated Mary
Report Post »Mary M. Tebbe
Posted on April 12, 2011 at 8:45amjabber: I was quoting from Mormons themselves…THEIR OWN WORDS. I have looked at the Mormon religion for many years, and studied much of what they believe right on the internet as well as in books, and have known Mormons. I also have been reading your Book of Mormon (assuming that you are a Mormon) and find that the book itself can be disputed on the basis of science, history, and archeology. There is much more I could have written about this religion, but we were originally talking about an ancient book recently discovered, but got sidetracked with Mormonism again. It seems it is a subject that Mormons themselves would like to avoid and much of their religion and practices are KEPT SECRET.
Report Post »I went on line this morning and read again about Walter R. Martin. I believe that he had a VERY IMPRESSIVE career. I imagine he hit quite a few nerves in his studies of apologetics which did not make him very popular among those that adhere to cultic religions.
kmichaels
Posted on April 13, 2011 at 2:40pmFor Mary Tebbe …
Your lengthy post of what Mormons supposedly believe in was so full of wholes, outright lies, and half truths that I am not sure your post deserves a response. However, I will attempt to set the record straight.
Yes, Mormons believe that the scriptures illustrate that those people that God calls his children will have an opportunity to become as God is now. This is well founded in the actual scriptures. Some have issue with this because they simple-mindedly believe that heaven consists of laying around all day in hammocks or pointless bowing down to some self-centered diety with too much time on his hands.
The scriptures state that the disciples of Christ may become one with God in the same way that Christ is one with God. Obviously we have at least two Gods already, namely God the father and Christ his son. So if two Gods, why not many Gods? Because sectarians misunderstand what one God means. The truth is that Gods, whether they be God the father, or Christ, his son, believe in the same truth, the same gospel, the same community of God, etc. So they are one in faith, one in unity, one in spirit, etc. They are not, however, several entities rolled into one. Stephan stated, while he was being stoned, that he saw Jesus standing on the right hand of God. This implies two separate entities. Common sense dictates that we have at least two Gods, and if two are possible, then many are also possible. The scriptures declare unto Israel that YE ARE GODS, even the sons and daughters of God. That is good enough for me.
The scriptures also say that as Christ is glorified, even his servants and followers will also be glorified. Christ stated that “All that my father hath shall be given unto you (his followers)“ Other scriptures state that we are to be ”joint heirs with Christ.” So although the idea of becoming like our father in heaven is foreign to Mary Tebbe, it is not foreign to the scriptures and or common sense.
The other things Mary wrote were mostly just outright lies or half truths. They came from an disgruntled ex member of the church who apparently had adopted some pretty strange and unfounded beliefs. So Mary thinks that every member’s person beliefs must be true, as long as they once called themselves a Mormon, which is just a stupid thought process on her part.
1) The Mormons believe in the pre-existence of the soul
True.
2) The polygamous nature of the gods
False. This is not established as doctrine.
3) The brotherhood of Jesus and Lucifer
Partly true. Only a brother in the sense that all spirits are brothers of Christ. Including Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, etc. However, they are not considered spiritual brothers in the sense of believing in the same gospel.
4) and the hierarchy of heaven which includes the telestial, terrestrial, and celestial.
True.
5) They believe that their families will have their own planets to live on where they will attain the state of being gods.
Partly true. Details are not given as to where God’s children will dwell themselves. But since the universe is infinite, they may dwell on other planets, other than where God physically dwells. At some point, with infinite creations, there would be no single planet that could possibly house all of God’s children. The key point however is that where-ever they live personally, they will still be able to dwell “in God’s presence.”
6) The Mormon does not accept the Virgin Birth of Jesus Christ.
Partly true. The word virgin in the scriptures does not necessarily imply never having sex. However, Mormons do not have an official doctrine on the nature of the birth of Christ, other than Christ is God’s literal son in the flesh. Whether Mary was artificially inseminated or had sex with a God is not important. Obviously God‘s genetic material was mixed with Mary’s, just like any other offspring would be. Mary Tebbe getting caught up in whether it was artificial or natural just illustrates her straining at gnats and swallowing camels.
7) Jesus our elder brother was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the Garden of Eden and who is our father in heaven.”
False. This is not LDS doctrine and never was LDS doctrine. However, it it true that Brigham Young had a personal liking to this idea, it was not ever declared official church doctrine. Brigham Young got the idea most likely from Heber Kimble, however, that is not verified anywhere. In any case, it was never official church doctrine. It was pure speculation on the part of either Heber Kimble and or Brigham Young. It was never taught by Joseph Smith.
8) Brigham Young opposed the Christian doctrine of salvation.
False. Mary Tebbe is taking for truth what some ex-member incorrectly understood.
Brigham Young was referring to unrepentant sinners, not those that accepted Christ. This is no different from other religions believing that only repentant sinners would have the blood of Christ be effective in their lives.
9) Brigham Young made Jesus Christ’s shed blood of no effect.
False. Hogwash. BS crap from Mary Tebbe and people having no clue what they are talking about.
10) The Mormon considers Lucifer a spirit brother of Jesus.
Not exactly. Satan was a pre-existent spirit but never agreed with the truth. He is not considered any more significant than any other evil spirit that has been placed on earth. Yes, the scriptures state that Satan was present in “heaven” or the pre-existent realm. The scripture state that Satan was a “fallen angel” and was cast out of “heaven” or the pre-existent realm. So what?
11) Christ was appointed by the gods to become the redeemer of the race
Not exactly. He was appointed by God the father.
12) No one of the ***** race may attain priesthood because of a pre-existent soul which is considered evil. The Indians are also accursed because of their allegedly evil activities as far as the Mormons are concerned.
Never was LDS doctrine. This is nothing more than human speculation. The priesthood in the Old Testament was restricted to the tribe of Levi. The other 11 tribes were not allowed to have the priesthood at that time. Later on it was allowed for the other tribes, then later still it was allowed for people outside of the tribes of Israel. Those not allowed to hold the priesthood were not considered more evil. They were simply denied the priesthood by God, the same way that God gave the priesthood initially only to the tribe of Levi.
13) In Mormonism Christ as a pre-existent spirit was not only the brother of the devil, but celebrated his own marriage to both the Marys and to Martha, whereby he could see his seed before he was crucified.
FALSE. This was never LDS doctrine. The rumor stems from human speculation that Christ may have been married. It was never doctrine and was not ever widespread as a belief.
14) Mormons believe in universal salvation. All people will attain salvation in their different levels of their idea of heaven.
Mostly FALSE. It depends on how salvation is interpreted. If it is interpreted as entry into “heaven” and direct fellowship with God then Mormons believe that few people will attain this goal. As the scriptures state, “few there be that find it.” Mary Tebbe is just overly gullible to believe ex members of the LDS church.
15) The Mormons believe that the ten lost tribes are somewhere in the polar region and will be released and transported to Zion where all the riches they have accumulated will be shared with the rest of the saints.
Report Post »FALSE, FALSE, FALSE. Mormons have no official belief as to where the ten tribes are located. The scriptures state that they were removed to the “north countries” that is all. What happened to them afterwards is not revealed. Again, Mary Tebbe is just poorly informed. Mormons do believe that the ten tribes will eventually make contact with LDS saints but the treasures referred to are not material treasures, but rather treasures of knowledge about Christ, God, etc. Mary Tebbe’s comments result from very lousy research into issues.
Mary M. Tebbe
Posted on April 17, 2011 at 8:37pmkmichaels: I read your piece that you wrote in response to me. In all fairness I need to respond. If you read my words again, I was QUOTING DIRECTLY FROM YOUR FOUNDERS, AND YOUR OWN MORMON LEADERS, from THEIR OWN WORDS. I did not add any of my own words or opinions. If you have a problem with what I wrote, then you need to research your own religion. You might want to search back to their founding of the Mormon Church, because they have rewritten much of what their original founders taught as Mormonism. That is FACT.
Report Post »I don’t mind criticism. We all face plenty of that on this website. BUT, I do deal in TRUTH and FACTS, and don’t mind having to defend them.