Faith

70 Ancient Metal Books Could be ‘Major Discovery of Christian History’

70 Ancient Metal Books Could be Major Discovery of Christian History’

From the Daily Mail.

They’re small “books,” but they could be one of the biggest finds in Christian history.

70 tiny, lead tablets, bound with wire, were found in the last five years in Jordan, and some say they could offer key details of the early church, the final years of Jesus’s life, and may even be referenced in the book of Revelation. In fact, they could even predate the writings of St. Paul. The Daily Mail reports:

Academics are divided as to their authenticity but say that if verified, they could prove as pivotal as the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1947.

Lines of inquiry: The metal tablets could change our understanding of the Bible

On pages not much bigger than a credit card, are images, symbols and words that appear to refer to the Messiah and, possibly even, to the Crucifixion and Resurrection.

Adding to the intrigue, many of the books are sealed, prompting academics to speculate they are actually the lost collection of codices mentioned in the Bible’s Book Of Revelation.

The books were discovered five years ago in a cave in a remote part of Jordan to which Christian refugees are known to have fled after the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD. Important documents from the same period have previously been found there.

Initial metallurgical tests indicate that some of the books could date from the first century AD.

“It is a breathtaking thought that we have held these objects that might have been held by the early saints of the Church,” David Elkington, a British scholar of ancient religious history and archeology, told the Mail. He also believes that, if real, they could be “the major discovery of Christian history.”

Philip Davies, emeritus professor of biblical studies at Sheffield University, told the Mail he thinks the books are undoubtedly Christian artifacts, especially considering their depiction of Jerusalem.

“As soon as I saw that, I was dumbstruck,” he said. “That struck me as so obviously a Christian image. There is a cross in the foreground, and behind it is what has to be the tomb [of Jesus], a small building with an opening, and behind that the walls of the city.

“There are walls depicted on other pages of these books too and they almost certainly refer to Jerusalem. It is a Christian crucifixion taking place outside the city walls.”

He added: “The possibility of a Hebrew-Christian origin is certainly suggested by the imagery and, if so, these codices are likely to bring dramatic new light to our understanding of a very significant but so far little understood period of history.”

Another scholar believes the context for this discovery must include mention of the book of Revelation.

Dr. Margaret Barker, former president of the Society for Old Testament Study, told the Mail, ‘The Book of Revelation tells of a sealed book that was opened only by the Messiah. Other texts from the period tell of sealed books of wisdom and of a secret tradition passed on by Jesus to his closest disciples. That is the context for this discovery.”

Some, however, are more cautionary, especially considering the propensity for “finds” such as this one to produce fakes.

“The reported symbols inscribed in the items seem as/more readily to point to a Jewish origin” rather than a Christian one, writes New Testament scholar Larry Hurtado on his blog. “Philip Davies claims to have seen what he takes to be a representation of Jerusalem and a reference to crucifixion.  That might mean a Christian-produced item, but by no means necessarily.”

He also says the tiny tablets could point to a date of origin much later than the first century: “The items are miniature codices, of a size that suggests private usage, and, so far as I know, suggests a date much later than the first century (there seems to have been an upswing in the production of miniature codices from ca. 3rd century CE onward).”

“Until the items are competently read, we don’t even know what their contents are,” he cautions.

Confirming their authenticity, however, could be difficult: no one knows where the tiny books are for sure:

Today, their whereabouts are also something of a mystery. After their discovery by a Jordanian Bedouin, the hoard was subsequently acquired by an Israeli Bedouin, who is said to have illegally smuggled them across the border into Israel, where they remain.

However, the Jordanian Government is now working at the highest levels to repatriate and safeguard the collection.

A British team, including Baker, is now aiding efforts to have the books returned to Jordan.

Read more at the Daily Mail.

Comments (298)

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  • thorkyl
    Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:44am

    mmm, Which church has them?
    I bet when the are “found” we don’t hear about it.
    And if we do the will never be “translated”

    Makes me wonder if these are the first Bibles, or are they commandments
    Could the be the original 10 commandments?

    Report Post » thorkyl  
    • trolltrainer
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 12:36pm

      You mean before the revised edition?

      Stone/lead…all the same…

      Report Post »  
    • Islesfordian
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 3:51pm

      The original 10 commandment tablets were destroyed. The second replacement set were placed in the Ark of the Covenant. The Ark was lost. Some say it was taken to Ethiopia. Some say it is buried in Jerusalem. It doesn’t matter. We know what the 10 commandments are.

      Report Post » Islesfordian  
    • Sinista MACE
      Posted on April 1, 2011 at 9:14am

      I think the Ark was a nuclear reactor of some kind, nevertheless, I think the Ethiopians still have it, with that lifetime guard sitting outside the hut with the AK in his lap…

      Report Post » V-MAN MACE  
  • TRONINTHEMORNING
    Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:36am

    Yep, the five-year problem. As long as I have my Old and New Testament and some teaching from J. Vernon McGee; I don‘t think I’ll need the little metal books.

    Report Post »  
    • trolltrainer
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 12:34pm

      +1 on McGee. We listen to the thru the Bible series for our Scripture study every morning. We are on the minor prophets at the moment.

      McGee is a bit dogmatic for my taste and I find myself disagreeing with much he says, but he is mostly sound, especially on the important stuff. He definitely makes God’s Word accessible for the common man. He was a man of God.

      Report Post »  
  • LadyIzShy
    Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:31am

    I seen this the other day. should be interesting to see what happens with it.. wonder who will say its fake first.. the POPE or Islam

    Report Post » LadyIzShy  
    • Islesfordian
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:47am

      I think anyone with an ounce of critical sense will call out “Fake!“ Not just the nature of the ”artifacts” themselves but the unverifiable nature of even their existence should make intelligent people suspicious. Something with no historical precedent is claimed to have been found but can’t be verified because they are “missing”.

      C’mon.

      If it’s not 9/11 truther idiocy or fevered birther speculation it’s Jospeh Smith/Dan Brown nonsense like this. Verifiable reality just isn’t enough for some people.

      Want to buy a bridge?

      Report Post » Islesfordian  
    • DLG123
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 12:34pm

      Why do hate so much? What do you know about Catholicism? Where is the love for your fellow brothers and sisters? Some people on this site have a knee jerk reaction to blame Catholics… It is sad because you are attacking the only church that Jesus himself started… Matt 16:18
      By the way you can’t seen anything.
      Peace,
      DLG

      Report Post » DLG123  
    • Antilib
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 5:35pm

      Catholicism has done more to damage the Christian faith than almost any other entity in history. Try reading Fox’s book of Martyrs. Most of the Popes were sick men that abused their position of power to destroy anyone who dared question their “authority”.
      Just sit and think about this for a moment. There are two distinct acts of Jesus that lead to him being called a “blasphemer” by the religious leaders in his day. The first was when he claimed to be the Son of God.
      (Matthew 26:63-65)
      But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

      The second was when he said that he had the power to forgive
      (Luke 5:20-21) And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee. And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?

      The Catholic church does both of these things. The only difference is that they aren’t Jesus. People go to confession to have their sins forgiven. They also believe the Pope to be infallible and “god under the veil of flesh”. Oh wait, you didn’t learn that at mass did you? It’s all part of the Catholic faith whether or not you like it.

      Report Post »  
    • DLG123
      Posted on April 1, 2011 at 11:26am

      @AntiLib-
      Jesus gave the authority to the Apostles to forgive sins…”Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.” John 20:23 I dont think your church can claim to have Apostolistic Succession where we can… So yes confession is apart of our faith… Who else hears confessions? Lutherans, Eastern Orthodox so its not just those crazy Catholics
      Jesus did not promise the Holy Spirit to guide and direct your denomination (seeing how it wasn’t invinted by MAN until after 1600 A.D.) but he did to the Apostles. (where we have an unbroken line of succession from Peter to Bendict XVI)

      No Catholic will tell you that the Pope himself is infallible or the he is “god”if they do then they are not informed correctly… However, we will say that when he is teaching about Faith and Moral his TEACHINGS are infallible because the promise of the Lord to his Apostles that the Holy Spirit to guide His Holy Church. “12 I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
      13 But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth.” John 16:12-13

      Have there been bad Popes that were sinners and became cought up in the pleasures of this world… ABSOLUTELY! But you say that they are all evil or bad men just like you can‘t say that all Mormons are racist or that all Baptist are racist backwoods hillbillys who won’t allow blacks into their church and so on. So before you make wild statements about someones Faith you should do some research and not rush to judgement which makes you look like an bigot.

      We believing that the Pope is “god under the veil of flesh” is about as intellegent as saying we worship Mary… Sounds to me like you’ve been reading to much Jack Chick

      Report Post » DLG123  
    • Antilib
      Posted on April 1, 2011 at 5:55pm

      @DLG123
      Interesting that you chose the word “claim” regarding apostolic succession. It’s simply that, a claim that has been made to legitimize Catholicism. To steal a phrase from Barry, let me be clear. I don’t think that Catholics are bad people or bad representatives of the Christian faith. I just take issue with a multitude of the churches teachings. I could go on for days about their non-biblical doctrines. I also live under no such belief that any church has it 100% right. It’s more that the Catholic hierarchy has so much wrong. For example, they in no way encourage their members to actually read the scriptures for themselves. In fact, they often discourage it. Many priests will tell you that there is no need to read your Bible. You can gain full knowledge from attending mass on a regular basis. Good luck with that one. They also encourage that you pray to the saints. I’m pretty sure that dead saints have zero power to hear your prayers, let alone answer any of them.
      Salvation is only through the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the Rock. He is what the church of Jesus Christ was founded upon. There is no man on planet earth that is the head of the church.
      Regarding the Pope’s “infallibility”, that is fine that no catholic will say that he is perfect. The fact is that the official doctrine of the Catholic church is that he is infallible. Furthermore, his teachings are definitely not perfect. He is a man who makes errors just like everybody else. When they were calling people heretics for reading the Bible, was that a perfect teaching. Give me a break. I believe that many Catholics don’t believe this to be true, but that is different than what the Church actually teaches. Don’t get mad at me, I’m not the one that said the following. It was one of your beloved Pope’s “Infallible teachings”
      “The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth.”
      Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218,
      “The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, he is Jesus Christ himself, hidden under the veil of flesh.”
      Catholic National, July 1895
      “We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty”
      Pope Leo XIII Encyclical Letter of June 20, 1894

      Report Post »  
  • Hickory
    Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:29am

    Some religious leaders have a vested interest in the rest of us not knowing the whole truth about Christianity and Judaism. It seems they are focused on their own positions as above the rest of us to feather their own nests. But, I have faith the real story will come out someday and we will find that Jesus was much more that we have been told. I, as a Christian with some Jewish blood, believe we are destined to become more that what we are because of the ultimate gift of our God to us. At that point, positions of hierarchy in those religions will mean nothing.

    Report Post » Hickory  
  • KL
    Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:23am

    They were ‘discovered’ FIVE years ago and now their whereabouts are unknown? Why not release this info five years ago? I don’t understand the story.

    Report Post »  
  • JP4JOY
    Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:19am

    Lead plates with wire holding them together…hmmm. Are there any other examples of this kind of artifact? I’m no expert but the photos of these plates look like a soldering exercise. From what I’ve read the “sealed books” of Revelation were also called scrolls. Scrolls were the normal way to write stuff down in those years. Papyrus, parchment, clay tablets in Samaria. Not saying it couldn’t be, just skeptical.

    Report Post » JP4JOY  
    • Jabber
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 12:49pm

      I agree. And those scrolls were often literally “sealed” with something along the lines of a wax seal poured upon their out most edge and then embossed with something signifying to whom the scroll belonged or where it originated. For example a king might have such a scroll written and then press his signature ring into the melted wax “seal” as a means of making it official. If anyone except him, or the person to whom the scroll was intended, broke “the seal” on it, it was literally a crime and the punishment was death.

      Taken in this context, it adds another dimension to the idea in Revelations that Jesus Christ was the only person authorized to open “the seven seals”.

      Report Post »  
  • teddy8765
    Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:19am

    All discussions about true Christian History are good…but don’t be thrown off message while the World is looking like what Jesus describes in Matthew 24. Spread the gospel and the importance of making the USA a beacon of light.

    http://www.jesusalonesaves.com

    Report Post » teddy8765  
  • momprayn
    Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:17am

    Agree with the idea that “sealed” meant being sealed from our complete understanding. You have to be very careful about these things. It’s always upsetting for me to see what these “Dr.’s” of biblical studies say….usually not correct. Whenever I see “PhD” or “Dr.”, I get very leery. Don’t ever accept what they say point blank. Check for yourselves. Re what this Dr. Barker said about Jesus opening a sealed book in Rev. — I think those refer to those books in HEAVEN…..you know — llike the Book of Life? It doesn’t mean there are books here on earth that Jesus opened. The New Testament warns about any other book to base doctrine on, etc. There were all kinds of people back then who had gone astray & wrote & believed all kinds of unbiblical things. On the other hand, it could be authentic & just more writings that followers of Christ wrote, which I’m sure they did — but they don’t contradict anything — just more of the same repeated or something. But as I said, we’re commanded to only go by the Bible we have (not the Catholic Bible btw). Although I’m sure there are some ancient biblical things we will be finding that confims biblcial stories.

    Report Post »  
    • Clydie_Clyde
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:26am

      Wow. You are truly a delusional person. You get leery when you see qualified scholars?? Facts scare you? You are what’s wrong with the world. You sound like a typical religious nut like the muslims or the crazy christian hater groups in the US. How frigging sad.

      Report Post »  
    • capecodsully
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 12:13pm

      What she is saying, I believe, is that many of these so called “theologians” don’t know God, they are not believers,they are secularists and say the most foolish things. Unfortunately a doctorate does not give one Wisdom, particularly in knowledge of the Lord. You can find these people making fools of themselves on TV every Easter and Christmas season (especially on PBS, go figure). You (Clyde) should not be so direspectful when you don’t have a clue what you are talking about.

      Report Post »  
    • FREDINOHIO
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 1:30pm

      You know what I find really, really sad? Well I’m going to tell you anyway!! What’s really sad is that there are so many people, like Clydie_Clyde, that have not discovered that spiritual things must be discerned spiritually and that to discern spiritual things one must have faith. As stated in the scriptures “faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things: therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true”. I cannot imagine going through life without faith.

      Report Post »  
  • americaneagle
    Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:15am

    This looks like the same language the book of Mormon came from. It was written on metal plates too and buried for our times so the records of our fathers could come forth in this dispensation.

    Report Post » americaneagle  
    • Clydie_Clyde
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:23am

      Stop the nonsense. Joseph Smith was a scammer and his story had no substance to it whatsoever and that’s an established fact.

      Report Post »  
    • Mark Tripp
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 12:11pm

      In your narrow mind Clyde, perhaps, but there are a great many people who disagree with you.

      Report Post » Mark Tripp  
    • Islesfordian
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 12:19pm

      “This looks like the same language the book of Mormon came from.”

      You can say this because:
      1; you have seen the actual book of Mormon that Joseph Smith found before he “translated” it.
      2; you have seen the “language” on these plates.

      I looked at the pictures in the article and couldn’t see any recognizable srcipt.

      It does look like no lack of evidence can impede your beliefs.

      Report Post » Islesfordian  
    • knome
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 2:19pm

      “Stop the nonsense. Joseph Smith was a scammer and his story had no substance to it whatsoever and that’s an established fact.”

      I don’t know if Joseph Smith was a scammer or not but I have noticed the mormons are some of the best Christians around. They do a lot of good and no harm that I’ve seen

      Report Post »  
    • Islesfordian
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 3:46pm

      If lying about God and Jesus don’t constitue harm we have different definitions.

      Report Post » Islesfordian  
    • knome
      Posted on April 1, 2011 at 8:08am

      Obviously Smith was lying but how is joe blow mormon lying? Granted I don’t know much about that group but I see them reading their bible, donating time and money, running hospitals…The few I’ve met have been very nice and my niece married one (haven’t met him yet).

      I know there are a lot of things I don’t know in this world so feel free to enlighten me. I’ll try to remember to come back here and check up on this. BTW I don’t mean this in a confrontational way just educational

      Report Post »  
  • BurntHills
    Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:14am

    ..they were SEALED?…from REVELATION?… and someone BROKE THE SEALS to look in them?…well THAT explains everything going on today, wouldn’t it.
    let’s hope someone on the Jewish or Christian sides has those books.. the muslims will destroy them pronto. more proof ISRAEL was there FIRST.

    Report Post » BurntHills  
  • Drum Man
    Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:10am

    Facinating stuff! Need to translate them PRONTO. Well, as soon as they find them again…

    Report Post » Drum Man  
  • moonpeace
    Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:08am

    In the end, all things will come to light. Nothing will remain hidden.
    And that, brothers and sisters, is why we need not lie about anything.

    Report Post » moonpeace  
  • Islesfordian
    Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:03am

    This is the stuff of credulous conspiracy theories, written by and for biblical illiterates.

    I get so tired when Glenn brings up stuff like this because he has enough knowledge to make him think he knows something, but he is so fueled by crackpot religious interpretations that he can’t tell the sane from the lunatic ideas.

    Report Post » Islesfordian  
    • moonpeace
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:34am

      I was reading several criticisms of Mr. Beck this morning. While I like and enjoy listening to Beck, I do agree that sometimes he appears to go over the top just a smidgen or two. I actually enjoyed him more when he was only on radio. But even on the radio, I really don’t like how, not only Beck, but others as well, will take a talking point and turn it into a commercial add to sell something. Like, for instance, he will be talking about how we are definitely living in perilous times: times of war and natural disasters, etc., and then he will go on from there to switch and then advertise the Survival Seed Bank–A Full Acre Crisis Garden–so that every family might have food to eat when things get tough, and these non-hybrid seeds will keep us all fed during the said apocalypse. Many claim this seed thing is a scam. While I don’t go that far, I do question Glenn’s sincerity, and I also wonder if he has his own plot in his back yard. Then, again, if people are starving next year how am I going to keep them out of my garden plot short of at gun point. And, you know what, a one acre plot of tomatoes is easily reconizable within a neighborhood. I know if my family is starving I will find a way to get to a neighbor’s garden to end their hunger. I will pay as long as possible, but even when the money is gone I will not, not ever, let my children starve. Let’s eat!

      Report Post » moonpeace  
    • trolltrainer
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 12:22pm

      So many crackpot comments and beliefs in this forum…I do not even want to start commenting on them, people will believe as they wish…

      “RevelationS…” Sheesh

      Report Post »  
    • Jabber
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 12:25pm

      You do actually believe that Glenn Beck writes and/or approves of every story that appears on The Blaze prior to publication? I think not.

      Report Post »  
    • Jabber
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 12:42pm

      Moonpeace-

      First off, Glenn’s radio show is “sponsored by” companies who pay him to advertise their products for them. They “pay” for a specific amount of his broadcast time, and he is contracted to verbally advertise those products during the course of his show. Hence “This half hour brought to you today by………“ or ”Our sponsor this half hour is…..” It has been standard talk radio + advertising practice since talk radio began.

      Secondly, Glenn has spoken repeatedly about the fact that he only endorses products that he either uses personally, or believes his listeners could benefit with. The fact that MANY of the current companies who advertise with him just happen to be “emergency” or “crisis” based products (like freeze dried food, seeds, safes etc) works out great for both him AND the companies. It’s relatively easy to work any one of them into his current trains of thought/dialogue don’t you think? (And as ADD as Glenn is, I’m thinking that just MAYBE-he or his staff go over the topics they plan to cover during the show AND insert specific commercials into specific places to provide better flow, keep him on track, etc.)

      Thirdly-you made a brilliant point here:

      “Then, again, if people are starving next year how am I going to keep them out of my garden plot short of at gun point. And, you know what, a one acre plot of tomatoes is easily reconizable within a neighborhood. I know if my family is starving I will find a way to get to a neighbor’s garden to end their hunger. I will pay as long as possible, but even when the money is gone I will not, not ever, let my children starve. Let’s eat!”

      Except that you seem to be incredibly naive on the reverse side. Most people who take the time and effort to purchase seeds, and store food ALSO take the time and effort to protect those things with weapons. We’re not stupid, and we know exactly how people like YOU are going to act in the future. We love our children and family just as much as you do, and you need to seriously recognize that none of us will NEVER, EVER let OUR children starve. Think about it.

      In simpler words, if I believe that your attempts to steal/procure the food/produce etc. that I have worked to provide for MY children will cause them to starve, I will do whatever is necessary to stop you. Period.

      Report Post »  
    • Eblaze44
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 1:05pm

      Please go check. Glenn didn’t bring this up. the author is one Jonathon Seidel.

      and anyone that thinks the current bible they are using is the “absolute” final word of God – they are lost. So picked over by those who had a point of view, and today cherry picked by so called “Christian” sects, translated by people who had their own point of view and correctness. the writers may have been inspired when writing – but the book definitely wasn’t inspired in the translations.

      Report Post » Eblaze44  
    • trolltrainer
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 1:21pm

      eblaze44,

      But we have many, many, many old manuscripts that mostly match up perfectly. That assures us that the translations we have today say what the originals did. Where there are questions it is documented what the question/difference is. No true Bible scholar relies on any one translation and to do a true study on a passage you need to go back to the original language. There are MANY Interpretation errors, but really very few translation errors. And the major doctrine stand unquestioned, the things in dispute are minor facts that doctrinally mean nothing.

      Report Post »  
    • Gates
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 4:20pm

      Glenn Becks credibility is heavily damaged by his belief in the Mormon Doctrine. As is GR’s. Most people are to lazy to simply look up what this “cult” believes and how utterly rediculous it is.

      Jesus and Lucifer are brothers. God was a man just like us and you can become a god too. And lets not forget that god is from the planet system colab (sp) and a good Mormon man will have his own system to rule along with many celestial wives to have sex with and produce spirit children to inhabit his planet.

      Jesus (the real Jesus) loves the Mormon but NOT their beliefs.

      Report Post »  
    • Jabber
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 8:25pm

      TrollTrainer-

      How does one “prove” that our oldest manuscripts are accurate copies of the “originals” when there aren’t any “originals” to compare them to?

      If you‘ve done even the most basic homework on the origins of most of today’s “Christian” doctrine, you’d know that MANY of them are the result of nothing more than majority rule/votes during the early Nicaean Councils and other gatherings. For example, the word “trinity” does not appear in the Bible, and there are a great many Non-Trinitarian “Christians” today because there are MAJOR doctrinal differences that have NOT been resolved.

      GATES,
      It is evident from every word you post that every concept you have of what “Mormons” believe comes from anti-Mormon websites and/or literature. I wonder why that is. I mean, IF, as you say, the actual doctrines of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are so damning and perverted-why not just link directly to their website so people can get their information first hand? Seems like you should be able to just QUOTE their doctrines word for word instead of having to spin things in order to make your accusations against them hold water. WEIRD!

      Oh, and let me ask you a question since you seem to be one of those people whose knickers knot up with just the suggestion that mankind might have the potential to become “Gods” someday.

      According to THE BIBLE, the ultimate reward for becoming “saved” through Jesus Christ is:
      “The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.” (Romans 8:16-17)

      Galatians 4:7 says that if we are no more slaves, then we are sons, and if we are sons, then God has made us heirs through Christ.

      And of course there are more scriptures about this. My question is this:

      If Christ is glorified and deified and “one with the Father”, and He personally stated His desire was to make us “one with Him as He is one with the Father”, and scripture indicates that we are to be co-inheritors with Christ-then how exactly can those who obtain this promise NOT be “Gods”??? Does God LOSE His status by making us one with Him? Does He become LESS of a God when that happens? Or do WE GAIN His status and become MORE when that happens????

      You CANNOT believe in a Trinity Godhead (where all three beings are one and the same and they just trade places etc.) where “God” absorbs US into Himself and grants us all that He has granted to Christ-WITHOUT us becoming GOD too. You simply cannot have it both ways AND have it agree with SCRIPTURE (rather than some human council’s theory).

      Report Post »  
    • trolltrainer
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 9:00pm

      Jabber:

      How does one “prove” that our oldest manuscripts are accurate copies of the “originals” when there aren’t any “originals” to compare them to?
      ——————————————————————————
      Why does one have to “prove” anything? If Scripture is inspired then the holy Spirit has insured that we have EXACTLY what He wants us to have. If Scripture is not inspired then why even believe to begin with?

      To answer your question, when you have 30 examples of the same passage found all over the ancient world, and every one of them is so close to each other that any differences are meaningless, then it is probably a good bet that they relate the same information that the original did. I have studied this for eight years now, I am convinced. If you are not then that is your prerogative. I am not going to bash Mormons here, nor will I bash the JWs or the Catholics we have in here. I cannot question anyone elses salvation, it is simply not my business. But when you start down the path that any of these “denominations” believe then I have to ask how you can distinguish what is man made and what is from God? You can pretty much cherry-pick anything you wish to believe. Do you think God would allow that with His Word? I do not.

      The Trinity is mentioned throughout the OT and the NT. Not by name, but the doctrine is crystal clear. As is the deity of Christ. We are heirs in Christ, we will be perfected, but we will not be gods. There is a difference between perfected and perfect. Satan and Jesus are not brothers. Lucifer is an angel and Jesus was a man. Angels are not resurrected, they do not die.

      Report Post »  
    • Jabber
      Posted on April 1, 2011 at 3:17am

      Troll Trainer-
      You-“But when you start down the path that any of these “denominations” believe then I have to ask how you can distinguish what is man made and what is from God? “
      Me-The same way I distinguish between what is manmade and what is from God in all aspects of my life. If I lack wisdom, I ask of God, who giveth to me liberally, and upbraids me not, and it is given to me.
      You-“ Do you think God would allow that with His Word? I do not.”
      Me-The Bible itself testifies to endless ways that God allows His mortal creations to pervert His ways and wander from His path. Is it not God that “allowed” the Pharisees to cherry pick and corrupt and change His words and laws to suit themselves? 2 Corinthians demonstrates that in the days of Paul there were already those who were corrupting the words of God-and God did not prevent it. Is it not Jesus Christ that taught in parable form? When asked why He did this by His disciples He replied that those with spiritual eyes and ears would hear them and understand and perceive but those whose hearts were hardened would not.

      You-“The Trinity is mentioned throughout the OT and the NT. Not by name, but the doctrine is crystal clear.”
      Me-So why, if the “doctrine” was so crystal clear, were there decades of debate before mortal men decided to create and then vote upon an official “creed”? Why is there still so much debate? Using your own arguments, can you explain to me why God didn’t just make the distinction absolutely clear in His words so that there was no dispute?

      You-“There is a difference between perfected and perfect. “
      Me-What is that difference other than that one was at one time imperfect and the other was not?

      You-“Satan and Jesus are not brothers. “
      Me-From the LDS website “The Apostle Paul wrote that God is the Father of all. This means that all intelligent beings were created by God and are His spirit children. Christ alone, however, is the only begotten Son of God, the Savior and Redeemer of mankind.”

      If the reasoning is that all intelligent beings are the spirit children of God, then it is no stretch to say that all intelligent beings are brothers and sisters-siblings of a common Father. If you believe that God is the Father of your spirit and mine, as I do, then are we not spirit brother and sister-to each other? If yes, then to Lucifer, and Jesus as well. It no more makes us “the same as” or “equal to “each other in goodness or evil than being “brothers” made Cain and Abel or Jacob and Esau “the same” or spiritually equal. It only implies origin.

      I really have no desire to argue doctrine or scripture with you here.

      Report Post »  
    • trolltrainer
      Posted on April 1, 2011 at 8:38am

      Jabber,

      You have answered your own question of why there are so many wild theologies out there! Because you feel that God gives you direct revelation! You have missed the boat!

      How do you know what is from God and what is from Satan? Or what is from your own desire? It reminds me of a story I heard where a Deacon went in to see the Pastor and said that the Holy Spirit was urging him to divorce his wife and marry his secretary! If it is AGAINST SCRIPTURE it is NOT from God! That is why we have the Bible. If not then any wild theology would be open.

      You are right, many people believe many different things. But if it cannot be supported biblically then it is wrong. That is the way it HAS to be, otherwise any Pope or Joseph Smith, or Jim Jones or David Koresh that comes along can suck the people in with the “new revelation” they have received from God. It is Ironic that people who question the inerrancy of Scripture would be so quick to follow any hairbrained “prophet” with a new idea.

      No thanks Jabber, that is foolishness and I will not have any part in it. I am glad you believe in God and Jesus Christ. I pray you have a relationship with Him. But I seriously question how you can know what you believe is true. I do not have that problem. I might be mistaken on some of my beliefs that the Bible is not perfectly clear on, but that does not matter, The doctrine that believers are required to know for salvation is written in stone, there are no questions. Stray from these doctrine at your own peril.

      Report Post »  
    • trolltrainer
      Posted on April 1, 2011 at 8:53am

      Jabber writes:

      So why, if the “doctrine” was so crystal clear, were there decades of debate before mortal men decided to create and then vote upon an official “creed”? Why is there still so much debate? Using your own arguments, can you explain to me why God didn’t just make the distinction absolutely clear in His words so that there was no dispute?
      —————————————————————-
      Sorry to post again, but this deserves an answer. Why do you think it took (centuries, not decades) before this doctrine was revealed by the second ecumenical in 381? It did not, John chapter 14 clearly explains that Jesus is the same as God and that when He leaves He will send the Comforter.

      “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”

      Acts 2 describes the coming of the holy Spirit, who indwells ALL believers at the time of salvation.

      Just because differing sects, such as the Arians, perverted the Word of God does not mean that the doctrine was not Perfectly clear. God gave us what we need, it is the blind corruption of man, his total depravity, that allows heresy. The Trinity is one of the doctrine that we must be certain of and if you do not believe it then you are not a Christian. The second ecumenical council only confirmed that, they did not create the doctrine.

      Report Post »  
  • alaskajohn
    Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:00am

    Really, lost? I hope they are in Israel.

    Report Post »  
  • KeithOlbermann
    Posted on March 31, 2011 at 10:57am

    Whatever these ‘books’ are we know for sure they are not ‘lost books of the Bible’ or ‘Inspired’ in any way. The Bible is complete-there is nothing missing. They may hold historical value, i.e. Josephus’s writings, but they hold no Spiritual value for the Christian. And stop that nonsense about the

    Report Post »  
    • ThinkThenDo
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:20am

      In essence, I want to agree with you. There is much good in the Bible and it contains the Word of God. But, I can’t agree with the claim that it is complete, uneditied, untouched, or that nothing is missing from it. The Bible itself speaks of other books that seem to be considered scriptural and that the original writers were familiar with as they wrote their own sections. As grateful as I am for the many who have sacrificed over the centuries to bring us the Bible in its current state, I fear they were not successful in preserving 100% of what could have, or even should have, been included, especially when you consider the many committees that met at various times to vote on what to include and what to omit.

      Here are some references to specific books mentioned in the Bible that aren’t in the current Bible: Book of the Covenant (as referenced in Ex. 24:4,7), the Book of the Wars of the Lord (Numbers 21:14), the Book of Jasher (Joshua 10:13; II Samuel 1:18), a Book of Statutes (I Sam. 10:25), the Book of the Acts of Solomon (I Kings 11:41), the books of Nathan and Gad (I Chronicles 9:29; 12:15; 13:22), the Book of Shemiah the Prophet and the Book of Iddo the Seer (II Chronicles 12:15), the Book of Jehu (II Chronicles 20:34), the Sayings of the Seers of Hosiah’s Chronicle (II Chronicles 33:19), epistles of Paul to the Corinthians (I Corinthians 5:9) the Ephesians (Ephesians 3:3) and the Laodicians (Colossians 4:16), an Epistle of Jude (Jude 3) and the Prophecies of Enoch (Jude 14).

      I could go on and on such as citing a reference in II Chronicles 26:22 that says that the acts of Uzziah “both in his first and in his last days” have been written by the prophet Isaiah. We do have Isaiah’s book of prophecy, but in it is found only two brief mentions of Uzziah. The first (Isaiah 1:1), simply states that Isaiah recorded events that took place in the days of four kings with Uzziah being one of them. The second (Isaiah 6:1), uses the year King Uzziah died as a reference point for a vision that Isaiah wished to relate. Surely these do not fulfill “the rest of the acts of Uzziah, first and last” which the Chronicles say Isaiah had already written.

      Regardless of what may be missing, the Bible still contains the Word of God. Finding more of the Word would be really cool. Maybe these metal books have some of that…

      Report Post »  
    • Jabber
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 1:08pm

      You do realize that the word “Bible” simply means “books” or “collection of books”, and that the contents of the first “bibles” was decided by a committee/council of human beings-none of whom was called as a prophet of God? Has it been noted anywhere that said council was acted upon by the Holy Spirit or visited by heavenly beings who indicated which “books” were valuable as doctrine and which ones were not? Has it been stated somewhere that “God” personally oversaw the end result or pronounced it “good” or “perfect” or “finished”?

      The ONLY command against “adding to, or taking away from” in the Bible is in Revelations and accepted by many scholars to only apply to THAT book (Revelations). At the time that John was on Patmos-there was no “Bible” or collection of books in existence for it to be the “end” of.

      Report Post »  
    • Bearfoot
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 4:31pm

      Jabber, “Has it been stated somewhere that “God” personally oversaw the end result or pronounced it “good” or “perfect” or “finished”?

      2 Timothy 3:16 “All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.”

      Report Post » Bearfoot  
    • Jabber
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 7:16pm

      Bearfoot-

      I don’t disagree with you.

      My point was in reply to the idea that “the Bible”-a collection of holy books gathered and then voted upon by human beings to determine it’s contents- contains every word God ever spoke to mankind. My question was, where/when did God ever proclaim over the “completed Bible/collection of books” that it was finished, complete, perfect? There is absolutely no indication from history that during or after the councils in Nicaea that God appeared or commented His approval or declared the “Bible” to be the perfect record of His word.

      Report Post »  
    • kmichaels
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 8:16pm

      When was the bible deemed “COMPLETE” and that we had no further need of prophets and or no further need for the word of God in modern times? The bible is a collection of works. Is it complete? Jesus referred to scriptures that we have no canonized version of anywhere. No, the bible is not COMPLETE in any sense of the term.

      Report Post »  
    • Bearfoot
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 8:17pm

      Jabber,

      Some look for a vision from God before they will believe. They say “unless we can put our finger into Jesus’ side and see the wounds, we cannot believe.
      2 Corinthians 5:7 says “we are walking by faith, not by sight” meaning that, because of a accurate knowledge of God’s Word we do not need such visual proof.
      In answering you good question, what I can say is we trust in the power of God’s Holy Spirit and the oversight of our Lord Jesus in shepherding the Congregation that he poured out his life for. Would our Creator and His Son not protect His Word from corruption, seeing how important it is to have accurate knowledge of it?
      Because of that oversight, Jesus could confidently say in John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.

      Without an accurate Bible we could never have an accurate knowledge of God. I hope I am making sense.

      Report Post » Bearfoot  
    • Bearfoot
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 8:32pm

      Just think of the investment our Creator has in our being able to come to an accurate faith.
      Six thousand years of human history, and throughout all that time God has tried to teach mankind his purpose for the earth.
      He sent his only-begotten Son to offer up his perfect human body as a sacrifice to pay for our sins, and to give us the opportunity to live forever. The entire issue of God’s sovereignty is on the line in this battle with Satanic forces. With so much was invested, would it be possible for God’s Word to be ruined by puny men?

      Report Post » Bearfoot  
    • Jabber
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 9:22pm

      BearFoot said:
      “Without an accurate Bible we could never have an accurate knowledge of God.”

      Did Adam have a Bible? Or Moses? Or Abraham? Did Saul? Did ANY of the apostles have a Bible?

      I find the idea that words written in a book, even a holy book, can ever bring us to an “accurate knowledge” of God absurd. The idea that they are the ONLY thing isn’t even scriptural. In fact, the Bible clearly demonstrates several of God’s apostles being “shown things” which they were then commanded NOT to write down. Which means that not ALL of God’s word is contained in it.

      The Holy Spirit reveals the truth of all things, and only in and through it (the Holy Spirit) do we come to know God. God’s ways and thoughts are far beyond human understanding and an “accurate” or full knowledge of Him cannot be conveyed through mere mortal words.

      Report Post »  
    • foobear
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 9:53pm

      @Keith, You honestly think the Bible is complete?

      That’s… incorrect. Read John 21:25.

      Report Post » foobear  
    • Bearfoot
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:23pm

      Jabber.

      There are indeed many things, events, and details that are not included in the Holy Scriptures.

      John 21:25 acknowledges this when referring to Jesus’ ministry and activities.
      It says in that place; “There are, in fact, many other things also which Jesus did, which, if ever they were written in full detail, I suppose, the world itself could not contain the scrolls written”.

      If this is the case with Jesus, of course it is the case with trying to record all details of 6,000 years of mans history. We do however have enough information in our Bibles to build a solid faith.

      I think we are on the same page here and I hope I am not irritating you, I just consider this a nice conversation.

      Report Post » Bearfoot  
  • miles from nowhere
    Posted on March 31, 2011 at 10:57am

    During this most difficult time on earth, we seem to be getting info on the Christian Religion that is finding its way back into our society. It is like God wants the masses to rediscover the faith. I believe it is important that the masses know what is written on these tablets at this time for spiritual purposes that may guide our people for our very sake.

    Report Post »  
  • BetterDays
    Posted on March 31, 2011 at 10:51am

    Sigh……the books of Daniel and Revelation both speak of portions or “ books” being sealed until the end of days. The most generally accepted interpretation of the meaning of the word “sealed” in both books is the same. That the correct understanding of what the books is specifically taking about will not come about until the last days, “ sealed” hidden from understanding.
    The hype that some “ sealed” codex’s may be ………..puts the image of the wild haired, spray on tan narrator on the “ Acient Aliens” shows on the history channel………
    GOD does not lie, His word has and is the same now, then, tomorrow. Do you really think he would say ” ok world here’s some NEW stuff I never told you about or gave you a chance to study it.” NO, his word has been in this world since before the first written bibles, some of it men could not understand or interpret, and when they do, then that is a sure sign it’s “the end of times.”.
    That being said, I hope they post them online like the “ dead sea scrolls”, if you’ve never varrified the unbroken and true nature of GODs word by translating from Aramic ( Greek) and Hebrew, try it and you’ll be satisfied. I’m looking forward to what is written, and shall hold them in comparision to the Everlasting word of GOD.

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    • LibertyGoddess
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:10am

      The dead sea scrolls are fascinating and have revealed so incredible lost knowledge…unfortunately, most Christian churches don’t want to hear about it or study them because it supports all the claims made by the Mormons.

      Report Post » LibertyGoddess  
    • Uriel
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:38am

      @Libertygoddess
      “because it supports all the claims made by the Mormons.”

      Such as?

      Report Post »  
    • Jabber
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 12:15pm

      Don‘t you find it interesting that after Christ’s resurrection, He spent 40 days and 40 nights with His disciples teaching them, and yet we have no record of the things He taught them during that time? It had to be stuff that He had not taught them before He died, (why would He just repeat what He had already taught them?) and yet we see no significant “new” gospel teachings appearing afterward.

      You said: “That the correct understanding of what the books is specifically taking about will not come about until the last days, “ sealed” hidden from understanding.”

      Actually, the word used in the Bible comes from a root word meaning “to fence in, block up, stop up, silence”. Revelations states that the “sealed book” spoken of in Revelations is one that “no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.”

      Now this is just me, but this does not indicate that we just won’t be able to comprehend or understand what is written in the book. It indicates that we won’t be able to open it or even look at it.

      Revelations also states unequivocally that only Jesus Christ is able to open the book sealed with 7 seals.

      In Daniel 12 it says “for the words [are] closed up AND sealed till the time of the end .” (emphasis mine) The Hebrew shows two different but similar words for “closed up” and “sealed” and both are verbs that mean “to close up, to stop up, to shut away”.

      As far as the idea that God would never give “man” a greater or lesser version of His Word-that idea is repudiated by the fact that there was an Old Testament/Covenant/Law and a New Testament/Covenant/Law. Their basis and essence is the same, but their execution and principles are different. God’s Law does not change, but He does adapt it to the capabilities of mankind, and that can appear to the unenlightened as if it changes when in reality it has not.

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    • Jabber
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 12:23pm

      LibertyGoddess-

      Careful with your claims Sister. :-) Just sayin’…..

      While the Dead Sea scrolls DO contain a lot of information and insight that can enhance one’s understanding of the books in the Bible (and the lifestyles and events of that time) they are not considered cannon by ANY church, including the LDS Church, and there is so much we just don’t know about the Essene people who supposedly compiled them. (In other words, there is also stuff in them that does not align with current LDS Doctrine-so tread carefully until you study them yourself and understand what they contain) :-)

      Report Post »  
    • imreddog
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 2:44pm

      Hey Liberty Goddess, does that include the part about how God was once a man like us, or the part about: if a Mormon is good enough, he and his wife become gods and she is forever pregnant with the souls that will inhabit a planet somewhere in the universe? Just wondering is that is the part about Mormonism that the bible proves…. according to the Mormons…. cause my Bible doesn’t say anything like that.

       
    • klr56
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 4:39pm

      @imreddog
      You do not know the LDS doctrine. You misinterpret the doctrine and then claim “my bible doesn’t say anything like that.“ But my bible commands ”Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” (Matt. 5:48) and “we are the children of God: And if children, then being heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ….” (Romans 8:16-17). A child becomes like his/her parents and we were made in the image of God, whose image is that of a man. The very name of God in the Hebrew Bible even the Father is “Elohim” which is a plural hebrew word for “Man of Holiness”. The idea that God is a spirit came from the Hellenization of Christianity around the 2nd or 3rd century. The council of Nissan gave us the inaccurate idea of God that most Christian churches have today. Please read “your bible” more carefully and see how many times it refers to the bodily parts of God. His finger, His face, His back, etc…. Your bible should say these things and you will find them if you “search” and many more but some things have been changed overtime due to poor translation or direct error. For example, Genesis 18:8 talks about Lot giving his virgin daughters to a crowd of wicked men to “do ye to them as is good in your eyes”. That is a false translation and interjected by wickedness or error. If you don’t believe that and you feel that your bible has no error then you must be ok with rape and worse. I know that God would not want that behavior condoned and your comment about “if a Mormon is good enough, he and his wife become gods and she is forever pregnant….” is in the same category, false and a misrepresentation of truth. If you truly want to know truth, then seek out some Mormon missionaries. If you want more misinterpretation then seek out your local minister who gets “paid” for his preaching. Beware the money trail, in politics and religion.

      Report Post »  
    • Jabber
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 9:09pm

      KLR56-

      I always find this discussion fascinating. IF God cannot glorify mankind to His status, then He is not omnipotent. (God is not all powerful) If God does not know how to glorify mankind to His status then He is not omniscient. (He doesn’t know all) If He has no desire to glorify mankind to His status then He is not all-loving.

      We are told time and again in scripture that we were created BY Him, in His own image and likeness, and that His house contains many mansions that await our return to Him. And yet “scholars” such as TrollTrainer and Gates act as if the very idea of God exalting His creations to the point of them “joining” Him, or dwelling with and “in” Him would somehow make God “less than” He is.

      How can something (like us) originate with and FROM God Himself-and yet be unable to reunite with and become ONE with Him again? If we come from God are we not innately holy and glorious? If by FAITH a sick woman was able to draw Christ’s power FROM Him by the touch of her hands, and the Word was made FLESH, then God’s power and glory is not incompatible with the human form.

      Who are mortal men to tell God what He can and cannot do, cannot command, cannot make possible?

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  • gramma b
    Posted on March 31, 2011 at 10:49am

    Hmm. Imagine that. Ancient books on metal plates. Some parts sealed, even.

    Report Post »  
    • LibertyGoddess
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:09am

      I know where you are going with this…I’m having fun with it too.

      Report Post » LibertyGoddess  
    • stevenbeltz
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 4:02pm

      Even though the Book of Mormon is believed to be a work of Fiction by many different Protestant Faiths, it has a very positive impact on many. Fiction or not, God works wonders in many different ways.

      Report Post »  
    • Amateur_Radio_Operator
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 4:25pm

      Behold! So it came to pass…

      Report Post »  
  • ryanabe
    Posted on March 31, 2011 at 10:47am

    That was a great story up until that last part. Where is Indiana Jones when you need them, he couldtrack them down and then Marcus could put them in his museum.

    Report Post » ryanabe  
  • rienheart
    Posted on March 31, 2011 at 10:44am

    Could be some things in there that could be eye opening. Can’t wait to see what is revealed, when they find them.

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  • KEA
    Posted on March 31, 2011 at 10:43am

    Great, another story FILLED with all kinds of speculation and few facts. Blaze, you can do better than this!

    Report Post »  
    • teachermitch32
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 10:52am

      Do the research on your own. Have you not been listening.

      I had the pleasure of addressing a bunch of HS swimmers at 6AM today. My message in short? They are responsible for working hard and for there own improvement…it is not their coaches responsibility. I think that short message is appropriate here.

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    • patriot308
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:28am

      Kea……….heavy sigh!!!!!! Engage brain before typing. Kea….. you can do better!

      Report Post »  
    • Jabber
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:29am

      Coming from a report on objects surrounded by speculation and few known facts? Sheesh. You seem to believe the Blaze is omnipotent and all powerful and expected to obtain information not even known to the people who actually saw and handled the books!

      Report Post »  
  • 13th Imam
    Posted on March 31, 2011 at 10:41am

    Do not give them back to Jordan. They belong in a safe environment where the ******* can’t do what they did to the Statues in Afganistan.

    Report Post » 13th Imam  
    • teachermitch32
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 10:54am

      I agree shole heartedly. The Islamic cultures, largely, do not care for preserving history…unless it goes to supporting their own agenda. All other historical artifacts are expendible.

      Report Post »  
    • Clydie_Clyde
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 3:26pm

      You’re exactly right. That chap from the UK that’s trying to get Israel to hand these priceless artifacts over to the Jordanians is a fool and probably a liberal as well.

      Report Post »  
  • MYTXTREGISTER.COM
    Posted on March 31, 2011 at 10:40am

    Speculation will always come from many sides, however the basic truths of The Bible are continually being shown over and over to be some of the most scientifically supported truths by archaeology and historical documentation each and every day.
    ======================================
    Help our country get its financial house in order by starting with your house http://MytxtRegister.com

    Report Post » MYTXTREGISTER.COM  
    • Uncle Crusty
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 2:14pm

      Yup, just read Halley’s Bible Dictionary for an understanding of what mytxt says…many a scientist went to the middle east to disprove the Bible as a laughing stock, only to become true believers – hah – to all you men and women of reason!

      Report Post »  
  • brntout
    Posted on March 31, 2011 at 10:38am

    Only does the news that they were found 5 years ago come to light now?Interesting.Have they gotten a translation yet?

    Report Post »  
    • Jabber
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:26am

      Good question. Makes you wonder what else has been “discovered” that we won’t know about for years.
      Reminds me of government “reports” that the public doesn’t find out about when they are actually done and presented.

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    • walkwithme1966
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:47am

      They are probably now in the secret libraries of the Vatican and after being translated, if the Church believes that should be seen or read, they were be released. In other words, good luck with these books every seeing the light of day! http://wp.me/pYLB7-OI

      Report Post » walkwithme1966  
    • Jabber
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 12:17pm

      Walkwithme-

      It doesn’t really matter what the Church or anyone else thinks does it? If God wants them to be released,. or they need to be released in order to accomplish His plan, they will be.

      Report Post »  
    • PrfctlyFrank
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 2:31pm

      Metal books metal books… Hmmmmm… Where have I heard about metal books before??

      PrfctlyFrank  
    • Wolf
      Posted on April 1, 2011 at 6:20am

      Why worry about getting a translation of some at best spurious works when you don‘t believe what’s already been translated?

      Report Post »  
  • xoke
    Posted on March 31, 2011 at 10:36am

    They lost them!? Seriously? You can’t make this stuff up.

    Report Post » xoke  
    • Creestof
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 10:40am

      I have no doubt they were snatched up by the Vatican and will never be seen again.

       
    • Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 10:43am

      If these are authentic, and not forgeries, then it has the potential for being one of the greatest of ancient discoveries ever.

      Report Post » Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}  
    • Nervous Investor
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 10:44am

      I’m with you XOKE. The thought that they could have been “lost” is insane.

      Report Post »  
    • Restored One
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 10:53am

      The timing of this information being released is interesting. All the recent talk of the revelation and the 12 Iman. Just sayin.

      Report Post »  
    • Clydie_Clyde
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 10:56am

      I got the story from the BBC’s website on the 29th. You should check that site out – it’s great for real news that matters.

       
    • and to the republic
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:00am

      I don’t understand your thought that these could not have been lost. 2000 years. Seriously? Discoveries are made all the time. I think there is a word for it. What is that word? Oh yeah, Archeology…..

      Report Post »  
    • afishfarted
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:08am

      Restored One, don’t forget the video post on the Blaze a few weeks ago; the “image of the pale horseman” in Egypt either. If these books are indeed authentic, it certainly makes things a tad more “interesting”.

      Report Post »  
    • tommee
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:15am

      They weren’t lost at all, just placed in a hidden vault somewhere.

      Church leaders probably don‘t want the dogma and mythology of today’s biblical beliefs rocked by actual facts in history.

      Report Post »  
    • Jabber
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:24am

      There’s a difference between “lost” and “stolen”. Valuable, ancient discoveries are not often misplaced, but they ARE illegally “acquired” all the time.

      Just one more thing to fight over in the Middle East….

      Report Post »  
    • Ellie
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:25am

      Looks like the use of metal books during that period of history was not so uncommon. These were lead and contain symbols needing interpretation. The gold ones found by mr. smith don’t sound as far fetched anymore.

      Report Post » Ellie  
    • Clydie_Clyde
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:41am

      Brace yourselves for the information that comes tumbling out of these pages.

      Report Post »  
    • cnsteph
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:47am

      Actually, you can make this up…. The Mail has the reputation in the UK about the same as the reputation of the National Inquirer in the US. I wouldn’t put much stock in what they say. But then again, even the Nat’l Inq is guesses correctly once in a while.

      Report Post »  
    • KimH211
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:50am

      @and to the republic: Did you read the story? The books were found in a cave and have since disappeared. That‘s why we’re talking about them being lost.

      Report Post »  
    • and to the republic
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 12:01pm

      I apologize. I did read the story and how I missed that last part, can’t say. Interesting story to say the least…

      Report Post »  
    • Curator_JDR
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 12:07pm

      “The possibility of a Hebrew-Christian origin”?? Da Ya THINK? Yeshua was a Jewish Rabbi who was fed up with the corrupt Jewish establishment of the time — the ones who changed money and sold influence in the second temple, much like Obama’s Jewish minions. Remember, the second temple did not have the holy of holies (third floor of the original temple). It was used for community functions but was no longer holy in the sense that it did not contain the ark of the covenant which had been hidden/removed since the destruction of the First Temple.

      The original temple was about 20 stories tall and clad in gold leaf. The Babylonians, Hamites *** Caananites and thieves that they were, coveted such a visible (from a great distance) treasure. To see an artist’s accurate depiction of the first temple click here: http://www.marcrubin.com/or7.ivnu

      Jesus spoke Aramaic, the lengua franca of the ancient world which is closely related to Hebrew and OLDER than Hebrew. After all, the Kaddish, the Jewish prayer for the dead is in Ancient Aramaic and not Hebrew. Common sense dictates a prayer for the dead would be the oldest of all rituals.

      Ancient records of recovered official documents are recorded in both in Aramaic and the a local language such as Sumerian or Hittite, etc. This means Aramaic was the lengua franca of the ancient world, like English is today’s modern world.

      These codices belong in Israel. They picture Jerusalem. Ancient Israel included much of Jordan, which is a false country, invented to appease the Arabs after WW1.

      (To learn how the Zionist Organization of Chicago was pre-eminent in helping establish the modern state of Israel click here: http://www.marcrubin.com/zoc.ivnu )

      Curator_JDR  
    • A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 12:15pm

      “Dr. Margaret Barker, former president of the Society for Old Testament Study, told the Mail, ‘The Book of Revelation tells of a sealed book that was opened only by the Messiah.”

      Well, if you can open it, congratulations – it ain’t the one.

      Not only that, but the book is taken from the Father and given to the Son, so we wouldn’t have it here, anyway.

      And further still, the book is symbolic, since the breaking of the seals represent certain events.

      The “book” is referenced in Rev. 5.

      Report Post »  
    • DogTags
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 1:00pm

      Ellie, that’s funny! “The gold ones found by mr. smith don’t sound as far fetched anymore.”

      What is far fetched is that the gold tablets “found” by “Mr. J. Smith” were supposed to be of ancient origin, but he translated them into King James English IN THE MIDDLE OF THE 19TH CENTURY! (Also notice how many times a verse begins with “And it came to pass.) What is far fetched are all the grand cities and great battles mentioned in the Book of Mormon that NO EVIDENCE HAS EVER BEEN REMOTELY DISCOVERED TO EVEN HINT THAT THE CITIES EXISTED OR BATTLES TOOK PLACE.

      If Glenn Beck would put half as much time researching the Moromon religion as he does George Soros, he would discover it to be a very empty faith.

       
    • P C BE DAMNED
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 1:21pm

      Never forget if you believe in God you will also believe in Satan. He could have produced these millinia ago for the sole purpose of haveing Obama open them. You think I am kidding. I am not. Remember, “to the Law and to the testimony, if they speak not according to this there is no light in them”.

      Report Post » P C BE DAMNED  
    • Polwatcher
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 1:46pm

      Reading this article reminds me of some old jokes. First we read of an extremely important and rare find and then we read…sorry but they lost it.

      Report Post »  
    • UlyssesP
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 2:25pm

      @Clydie_Clyde
      BBC? What’s next, gonna recommend Al-Jezeera?

      Report Post » UlyssesP  
    • ZOMBIE JESUS LOVES ME
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 3:13pm

      What if these little metal books say something like, “Beware of the false prophet, Glenn of the House Beck, which will come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly he is a deceiving Fox!”

      You guys will instantly dismiss them as a hoax, huh?

      Report Post » ZOMBIE JESUS LOVES ME  
    • Clydie_Clyde
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 3:24pm

      UlyssesP, when I tipped of Glenn and The Blaze about the story they subsequently shared with all of you regular Blazers, I gave him the link to the story from that the BBC ran on the 29th of this month. The BBC is a great source for news and info that we don’t get from our MSM here until a few days after they run the story. So your snarky comment made you look foolish.

       
    • Gates
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 3:50pm

      Correct me if I‘m wrong but weren’t that discovered by Jewish “diggers”? If they contain validation for the Christian faith I can see why ANY other group other than Christians would want them lost. Historically archeological finds have validated the Bible. There is no reason to believe this find wouldn’t do the same. But can you imagine the shockwave it would create for the Jews if it either further validated or outright proved Christianity as the total and absolute truth. That could be disasterous for Israel and how they would then be viewed. And that is a real shame!

      Report Post »  
    • YOURBROTHER
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 4:54pm

      Dogtags says: (Also notice how many times a verse begins with “And it came to pass.) What is far fetched are all the grand cities and great battles mentioned in the Book of Mormon that NO EVIDENCE HAS EVER BEEN REMOTELY DISCOVERED TO EVEN HINT THAT THE CITIES EXISTED OR BATTLES TOOK PLACE.

      Ever heard of the Mayan, Olmec or Zapotec? They so happen to line up quite well with the peoples mentioned in the Book of Mormon especially the pre-classic through early classic Mayan and the Olmec. Volumes have been written about this very subject. My favorites being Exploring the Lands of the Book of Mormon by Dr. Joseph Allen or An Ancient American Setting for the Book of Mormon by Dr. John L. Sorenson. And as for “And it came to pass” you may want to visit this link: http://www.ancientamerica.org/library/media/HTML/5sb7q0zq/1A.%20AND%20IT%20CAME%20TO%20PASS%202.htm?n=0

      Pictured is the Mayan glyph interpreted by a Non-LDS scholar to be “And it came to pass”. That phrase, because it appears so many times in the Book of Mormon and the Bible, is likely a Hebrew phrase. Same original language used by the original authors. Might be why we see such similarities between Semitic and Uto-Aztecan. See Brian Stubbs work on possible linguistic connections between Hebrew and Uto-Aztecan. Here’s a sample below:

      “The present paper presents 203 equivalences between Semitic and Uto-Aztecan. Material still being analyzed contains over two hundred additional Hebrew roots with apparent reflexes in this North American language family. The similarities do not, however, demonstrate that Uto-Aztecan languages are descendants of Hebrew alone, although the number and nature of the relationships already brought out are sufficient to suggest that Hebrew was one of the ancestor languages.”

      Link: http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/books/?bookid=71&chapid=848

      Don’t take my word for it. Do your homework… but with an open mind.

      Report Post »  
    • gogobuffalo
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 5:27pm

      For all those hoping this helps Mormonism, I‘m sorry to say it won’t. I agree with whoever posted, saying if Glenn spent near as much research into Mormonism as he does Soros, he would find it an empty faith. In the Old Testament, God gives Moses three standards upon which to judge prophets claiming to be of God. 1. False prophets would teach people to follow other gods (Dt 13: 1-3) 2. False prophets would speak what God had not commanded (Dt 18:20) 3. False prophets would predict things that would not come true (Dt. 18: 22).

      You can argue about the first point, but to be safe, let’s say Joseph Smith only failed the second two. He taught that people in his lifetime would restore the lost tribe of Israel, and that never happened. This is just one of many FALSE predictions by Mormon prophets. So he failed the third test, most certainly. Mormons also teach that Elohim has a God as well, and they also teach that God the Father and Jesus are separate entities.

      Well, Jesus called himself “I AM” in the New Testament, which is what God told Moses to call him. Also, in Dt 6:4 it states “The Lord our God, the Lord is one.” (Moses speaking to Israelites for God. Not, our God is three, our God is ONE. Mormons try to state that the plural verb in Genesis for God created (created is plural) says there is more than one God. However, the noun for God is singular. If you ask me, this is a beautiful way for God to reveal himself as a Triune God in the first verse of the Bible. If it was meant to indicate pluralism, it would have said the gods created. More support for the Triune God comes from John 1:1-3. In the beginning was the Wrod, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. Clearly stating that Christ was with the Father before Creation.

      What is said is how Mormons are so similar to the Muslims (certainly not in everything). But here is their one huge similarity: both groups claim to be of the Bible and the God of Abraham, but a close examination of their books shows numerous contradictions with the Bible. Both groups also teach that the what the church teaches is an abomination, when clearly most churches teach from God’s Word and the Word itself says it is His Word. There are so many contradictions present, I don’t know how someone can be a Muslim or Mormon. Our book doesn’t contradict itself, and we claim it is the only true book. They claim their books are true, but ours has some validity, but their books contradict ours.

      What is also funny is how they each have their own little excuse to just “write-off” the contradictions. Muslims say since the Bible wasn’t written immediately as Jesus was speaking, it is corrupt. Mormons say the Bible is correct “insofar as it is translated correctly.” Well, my Pastor knows Greek and Hebrew and there are still many, many contradictions with Mormonism. Even when you go to the original text.

      One of my life’s goals is to share my knowledge of Mormonism with Glenn Beck. He showed me last summer how it was not just a coincidence that I’m conservative spiritually and conservative politically. One leads to the other. His shows on black liberation theology did nothing but vastly strengthen my faith. I am indebted to him. I pray God will give me the opportunity to speak to him, and that God will open Beck’s ears and heart, just as he hopes people give what he says a chance.

      Report Post »  
    • GEETAR
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 5:40pm

      creestof
      I think i have to agree with you. how could soething this important be lost again.

      Report Post »  
    • tketterer
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 5:50pm

      @dogtags exactly…..Do your own research Glenn and find out exactly what you “religion” believes, not just the “milk” thrown out by missionaries, but the “meat” they save for after you are roped into baptism. Even then most mormons don’t know anything close to what they are about, but their leaders do which makes them all the more, dare I say it? Evil!!!!

      Report Post »  
    • sooner12
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 5:55pm

      When you don’t want to repatriot them to the Jordanians, you simply say that they are lost and I hope they stay that way. The Jordanians would either destroy them or discount their historical value.

      Report Post »  
    • missionarydad
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 6:28pm

      I sure hope that they resurface and are being kept by Godly hands. Ancient writings like this could be worth millions for those only interested in profiting and by others wanting to keep further enlightment from the world.

      Report Post »  
    • Evileye
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 6:33pm

      If there lost how did they get that picture?

      Report Post »  
    • Curator_JDR
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 6:43pm

      Why are the book leaves engraved LEAD? Lead is poisonous. In the middle-ages it was thought to kill you and people wouldn’t go near it. Alchemists tried to turn lead into gold.

      Maybe these tablets are Jesus saying “Know your lineage children of Shem and Japeth. I am not God. I am a Rabbi. Never worship a man as God because God is infinite and can’t put his essence AND being simultaneously into a physical space without destroying it. Duh. Now just

      1 You shall not have any idols before God.
      2 You shall not murder.
      3 You shall not steal.
      4 You shall not commit adultery, incest or bestiality.
      5 You shall not blaspheme God’s name.
      6 Do not eat flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive.
      7 Set up a governing body of just laws.

      and that is all the world needs to get along. Thats how its got along since the time of Noah. And watch out for the children of Ham. The Romans who put a star and crescent on one side of their coins. Do not let them rule you or those who made us will return and destroy mankind”

      Report Post » Curator_JDR  
    • YOURBROTHER
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 6:50pm

      GOGOBUFFALO I know you mean well but Glenn has done his homework. Too many people rattle off vague “understandings” of Mormon doctrine and think they know Mormonism. There are also too many Mormons that don’t know their own religion but follow in blind faith. Great for them but I’m unable to do that. I guess I lack that kind of faith. We can bible bash back and forth quoting scripture to support our positions (which followed to conclusion would expose what would appear to be contradictions in the bible itself… which is just different perspectives on the same doctrine by human authors) but it really comes down to this for me…

      Is there enough evidence to show the Book of Mormon to be an authentic ancient compilation of writings? The answer for me is a resounding YES.

      I’ve read just about every piece of anti-mormon literature. I didn’t want to be Mormon and was out to disprove it. Most people stop there and think they know what they are talking about but I made the “mistake” of researching LDS scholar’s papers addressing those same criticisms and the LDS scholars rebuttal is way more intriguing. In fact in most cases, because of the criticism, Mormon scholar’s research the claim and we come away wondering how Joseph Smith got that one right if as the critics claim he simply wrote the Book of Mormon instead of translating from the metal plates. That’s what this thread is about… metal plates. Joseph Smith was laughed at for claiming that ancient writings were on metal plates bound by rings.

      Read the Book of Mormon for yourself. Then do your own research and don’t forget to counter the anti-mormon with the pro-mormon position. Here’s some links:

      http://www.jefflindsay.com/BMEvidences.shtml
      http://www.fairlds.org/
      http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/
      and of course http://www.lds.org

      We are all children of a loving Heavenly Father who throughout time has given his children direction which has been recorded in some wonderful books by prophets of God. Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ we can all make it back to Him. That’s the beauty of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Really that‘s what it’s all about. Our opinions on doctrine may differ but are not important to the overall Plan of Salvation laid by the Savior himself.

      Report Post »  
    • TheAmericanRifleman
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 7:01pm

      They lost the Ark of the Covenant…

      Report Post » TheAmericanRifleman  
    • Zobewan
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 7:37pm

      Hey Dogtags….what other language would the Book of Mormon have been translated into?
      Good job Yourbrother. Good to hear Mormonism is getting acknowledgment, even in this low level forum. Oh, BTW, Jesus frequently spoke privately to the Apostles things HE did not reveal to HIS other followers…DO YOUR HOMEWORK!!!! So, yes, while GOD’s TRUTH does not falter, what we know about it is NOT COMPLETE!!!

      Report Post »  
    • Anti_Spock
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 8:33pm

      Ahhh…. more religious text to bind the mind of man. When will we ever learn? Life is manifested energy. Salvation a misguided precept.

      Report Post » Anti_Spock  
    • Dale
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 9:19pm

      gogo;

      Here is something for you to consider: read D&C (Doctrine and Covenants) 87 regarding war beginning in South Carolina and spreading throughout the world. He prophesied this event nearly 30 years before it happened. I would say that is a pretty remarkable ‘guess’. The world has been in turmoil since then. So, unless you are a prophet, you really don’t know what God commanded him. As to your last (first) point, Joseph Smith taught to follow Jesus Christ – do you have a problem with that?

      Report Post » Dale  
    • dr_funk
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 9:42pm

      Well, whoever unseals them is going to start some serious s***!

      Report Post »  
    • Anti_Spock
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 9:43pm

      YOURBROTHER… “Is there enough evidence to show the Book of Mormon to be an authentic ancient compilation of writings? The answer for me is a resounding YES.”

      You might want to study period accounts of first hand witnesses who lived next to the Smith family. I was doing a college research paper on Jemima Wilkinson and came across several written accounts about his activities in Western New York. They documented how he came in possession of the seer stones (he took them and never returned them to the original finder) and used them on several midnight “Secret missions” gold seeking in the hillsides. All he did was dig holes, never found any treasures. I don’t doubt his sincerity… it ranks right up there with Jemima Wilkinson who fell ill with fever and awoke with similar desires… only her following didn’t last.

      My advice. Don’t follow any man. Especially one you have never met.

      Report Post » Anti_Spock  
    • foobear
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 9:45pm

      This is quite an exciting find, if the dating goes to the time period right after Jesus’ life.

      While there’s little doubt Jesus and the Apostles were real (read your Polycarp), idiot atheists think that “the Bible was written 300 years after Christ” (which isn’t true in the slightest), and so a primary source from that time period would be invaluable.

      Unlike Mormonism, archeology and evidence actually supports Christianity and Judaism (at least after the early bit of Genesis).

      Report Post » foobear  
    • Anti_Spock
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 10:01pm

      FOOBEAR…”While there’s little doubt Jesus and the Apostles were real (read your Polycarp), idiot atheists think that “the Bible was written 300 years after Christ” (which isn’t true in the slightest), and so a primary source from that time period would be invaluable.”

      Idiot atheist? C’mon, thats no way to gain a christian following. That would be like me calling christians idiots for believing the earth is a mere 6000 -8000 years old.

      Report Post » Anti_Spock  
    • DogTags
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 10:55pm

      Yourbrother,

      The following things mentioned in the Book of Mormon were not seen on the continent or even the hemisphere at the time the Book of Mormon claims (600 B.C. to A.D. 421):

      Silk—Alma 4:6, Nephi 13:7, Alma 1:29
      Horses—Enos 1:21, Alma 18:9, 3 Nephi 3: 1, Nephi 18:25 Steel—Jarom 1:8, 2 Nephi 5:15,16, 1 Nephi 4:9, 16:18
      Iron—2 Nephi 5:15, 20:34, Jarom 1:8, Mosiah 11:8
      Coins—Alma 11:5-19
      Donkeys—1 Nephi 18:25, Mosiah 5:14, 12:5
      Cattle, Cow, and Oxen—Enos 1:21; 3 Nephi 3:22, 6: 1 Nephi 18:25
      Pigs—3 Nephi 7:8
      Grain and Wheat—Mosiah 9:9; Helaman 11:17

      According to Ether 15:2, two million Jaredite peoples (men, women and children) were killed in battle, yet there is not a trace of this battle anywhere. Ether 15:15 claims that men, women, and children armed with shields, breastplates, and headplates, fought a great battle with much loss of life—yet not one article of battle has been found to date.

      That’s just for starters. (LOL, the Mayans are the people mentioned in the Book of Mormon.)

      The cult of Mormonism is a fairy tale created in the mind of a young Joseph Smith, with the aid of demonic forces. Mormonism teaches the lie Satan told Eve in the Garden of Eden: “You will become like God.” Mormonism believes God was once a man who attained God-status and now populates his own planet with spirit children. That is the same lie told by Satan in the Garden.

      Mormonism is a deliberate hoax designed to deny the deity of Jesus Christ. If you deny the deity of Jesus Christ, you will not receive eternal life.

      An interesting study would be the similarities between Islam and Mormonism:

      Both have revered “prophets” who were visited alone by a single angel.
      Both insist that the message from the angel was to correct corruptions in God’s message.
      Both have polygamist tendencies to propagate the faith through breeding.
      Both of their scriptures contradict the Word of God, especially on the person of Jesus Christ.
      Both are polytheists.

      I am happy for the turn-around in Glenn’s life, but the gods of the Book of Mormon had nothing to do with it. The God of Creation, Jesus Christ, is the Redeemer of lives. It would be a shame if Glenn denies the deity of his Redeemer.

      Report Post »  
    • Zobewan
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:00pm

      Actually FOOBEAR, Biblical Archaeology proves nothing. Check out G. Ernst Wright. My info has not only to do with his writings, but with Biblical archaeology in general. Please see the following clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl5S0×2hEdg

      Report Post »  
    • DogTags
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:07pm

      ZOBEWAN,

      Kings James English is from the 17th century, more than 200 years before Joseph Smith “discovered” the golden tablets. Upstate New York in the mid 1800s was hardly speaking King James English.

      Report Post »  
    • YOURBROTHER
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:24pm

      ANTI_SPOCK wow that’s an appropriate username… anyways nothing you have said is new to me or anyone else who has researched the LDS faith. You just put an undesirable spin on hearsay. Here’s even more critical examination of the seer stones. Let’s really dig in.

      http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/Seer_stones/Used_for_Book_of_Mormon_translation

      Once you understand the context of the times it’s really a non issue. Again regardless of how crazy every religion sounds based on an atheists observations of what we think is reality (see Schrodinger’s Cat or anything related to quantum physics to blow reality out of the water), we still have the Book of Mormon. It’s the perfect test. Claimed to be translated by the power of God testifying of Christ and ridiculed initially for it’s ridiculous claims of advanced civilizations infused with a small group of Israelites in the americas translated from gold plates written in a sort of Hebrew-Egyptian shorthand. What‘s weird is over time with scientific discoveries and increased scrutiny it’s gone from a 70 pound light weight to a 800 pound gorilla. If it were a fraud you would think the opposite would happen. Science is a relative truth. It’s only true until we discover something that changes the opinion of the scientist in that field and they come to a consensus. Then we‘re taught it as if it’s fact. Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn’t. God‘s truth is eternal and as more is discovered it’s amazing to see the Book of Mormon proven correct. So as crazy as you think Mormons are, there is that book… translated by a young man with an estimated 3rd-4th grade education.

      Report Post »  
    • Curator_JDR
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:41pm

      @Dogtags,

      You wrote “Mormonism believes God was once a man who attained God-status….“ and ”Mormonism is a deliberate hoax designed to deny the deity of Jesus Christ. If you deny the deity of Jesus Christ, you will not receive eternal life.”

      So you are saying that Jesus was God in a body but not a man who attained God-status. Somewhere a countless hoard of angels is dancing on the head of that pin.

      And you condemn to hell those who don’t believe that Jesus is the key to eternal life? When JC said “I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes unto the Father but through me”….HOW DO YOU KNOW he wasn‘t referring to following the Laws of ’Civilization, the NOAHIDE Laws and not his physical body?

      I suspect your text has been manipulated by the Progressives in the early Christian church. Christians say they believe in the Ten Commandments but, thanks to Constantine‘s bastardization of the early church for the emperor’s earthly glory, they break the First Commandment and turned the Church away from the Jews until the current Pope Benedict’s recent book where he exonerated the Jews of killing Christ.

      Jesus was a Rabbi. If you knew as many Rabbi’s as I do, and they tend to be egomaniacs who must justify synagogue dues to support their upkeep, you will know they don’t want anyone treading on their turf. They don’t like to be challenged because they think they are God and most are not even great human beings.

      Jesus told them the truth they didn’t want to hear. That they should be out of their jobs. After all, Abraham didn’t need a synagogue to worship God. Every body is a temple for the universe and everything in it is made of God who exists outside of space and time. That is the great mystery not even the angels understand. All we as human beings ought to do is have wonderous awe for Elohim and as Talmudic sage Rabbi Hilllel said “Don’t do unto your neighbor what is hateful to you and all the rest is commentary”

      Jesus came to welcome everyone into the Faith without having

      Report Post » Curator_JDR  
    • banjarmon
      Posted on March 31, 2011 at 11:44pm

      A British team, including Baker, is now aiding efforts to have the books returned to Jordan.

      Will the Jordanian Government claim this is a lost book of Mohammad’s???

      Report Post » banjarmon  
    • AwwwYeah
      Posted on April 1, 2011 at 12:21am

      SOMEONE knows exactly where they are. Just because WE don’t know where something is, doesn‘t mean it’s lost. LOST is a relative term in this case.

      Report Post » AwwwYeah  
    • YOURBROTHER
      Posted on April 1, 2011 at 12:22am

      @Dogtags no disrespect but please balance your anti-mormon propaganda with some pro-mormon propaganda with a dash of research so you can make an educated statement. Here is some help on your list of anachronisms:

      http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon/Anachronisms/Animals
      http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/AnachronisticLanguage.pdf

      To quote Nibley “The lack of evidence is not evidence.” … but the evidence we do have is pretty incredible and what we are missing is a very short list nowadays.

      The one geography we can agree on is the Old World. There we have points of reference and there is some really interesting discoveries in support of the Book of Mormon. If Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon, how did he get any of that correct? If it is what he says, a translation of ancient text, then the first hand knowledge of the Arabian Peninsula and Israelite practices we find in the Book of Mormon is just another fascinating piece of evidence in support of the book being of ancient origin.

      http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon/Geography/Old_World

      I’ve done all I can here. Bedtime.

      Report Post »  
    • Anti_Spock
      Posted on April 1, 2011 at 12:52am

      YOURBROTHER… 800 pound Gorilla. Nice. I was thinking the same thing about Islam.. it’s about a 2000 pound Gorilla. And if you toss in all the worlds religions they all have their own Gorilla with varied weight based on number of followers. Thats a lot of Gorillas!

      The point is this. Each one believes their Gorilla is the ‘one.” I tend to disagree with all religions from the standpoint that a single fossil upsets the entire religious equilibrium. Reality is man has been on this earth for such a short period (about 200,000 years of 4.5 billion), appearing almost 65 million years after the dinosaurs. Through intelligent design, we evolved into a species of self awareness. This awareness spawned religious beliefs. Thats my belief anyway.

      Report Post » Anti_Spock  
    • DogTags
      Posted on April 1, 2011 at 1:33am

      Curator,

      You are full of strawmen tonight. I am not Catholic so references to the faults of the Catholic Church will get no defense from me.

      Jesus becoming a man is not the same as man becoming God. It doesn’t follow that because God can put on flesh that man can take on the nature of God. Don’t think Jesus was just some mere Rabbi, or a good moral teacher. That would be a foolish thing to conclude. Jesus claimed to be God often, in fact the Pharisees tried to kill him because of it.

      Ask yourself, if Jesus was talking about the “laws of civilization” why in the world did he have to die on the cross? Try studying the Bible without any Mormon aids and allow the truth of Jesus to enter your heart. Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross is what saves. You cannot get to heaven by obeying the “laws of civilization.” Only faith in Jesus who fulfilled the entire law will cover your sins.

      I do not condemn people to hell. People choose hell because they reject Jesus. Life and death is before you. Choose Jesus Christ as the only way to salvation and live or reject Jesus and try to earn salvation for yourself which leads to an eternity in hell. The choice is before you.

      Report Post »  
    • kryptonite
      Posted on April 1, 2011 at 2:43am

      Gogobuffalo & Dogtags,
      I agree in re Mormons. The terrible thing about cults is that they always have an element of truth to them, so people don’t realize they have been deceived.

      Glenn is a hard case, because he also experienced a great “miracle” after he joined the LDS. Supernatural experiences (Paul is another example, although his came from God) create strong soul ties with the source of the revelation, whether godly or demonic. That is one reason why Glenn is so hung up on expecting “miracles,” and why I feel uneasy about the whole thing. Glenn needs a lot of prayer, and perhaps fasting. May God’s grace bring him to the fold. In Jesus’ name, Amen.

      Report Post »  
    • Zobewan
      Posted on April 1, 2011 at 3:21am

      Oh, Dogtags, thats where you are coming from. Well then, since the King James was the only Book they had in the house and that for many families that was the only Book in the house, it was THE Book the people of the time used to educate themselves and by which they learned to read, it seems reasonable that King James English would be the language into which the Book of Mormon was translated. Now, having said that, have you ever read the Book of Mormon? If you had, you would realize that the Book of Mormon is much easier to comprehend and read than the King James and therefore the Book of Mormon was NOT TRANSLATED INTO KING JAMES ENGLISH IN THE FIRST PLACE.

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    • foobear
      Posted on April 1, 2011 at 4:12am

      @ANTI_SPOCK

      By “idiot atheists” I mean to differentiate between them and non-idiot atheists, i.e. those who don’t think the Bible was written 300 years after the birth of Christ. Just like how you could differentiate between non-idiot Christians, and fundamentalists. (Oh, snap!)

      Report Post » foobear  
    • foobear
      Posted on April 1, 2011 at 4:17am

      @ZOBEWAN: “Biblical Archaeology proves nothing.”

      If you think archeology hasn’t confirmed events, people and places in the Bible (after Genesis), then you either haven’t studied it very much, or are willfully blind to scientific fact. The Book of Mormon, by contrast, has never had a shred of evidence to support it.

      In particular, you should probably read the following:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merneptah_Stele
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Dan_Stele

      Report Post » foobear  
    • Wolf
      Posted on April 1, 2011 at 5:56am

      “If these are real.” Uh-huh… I‘m sure mother gaia is going to prove they’re real and use them to sweep God under the rug.
      99% of Christians don’t believe the Bible, these aren’t going to make any difference. Just more of putting God in a little man made box so we don’t have to look at ourselves in His light.

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    • DogTags
      Posted on April 1, 2011 at 12:31pm

      Yourbrother,

      “The lack of evidence is not evidence…” That is how lies persist. “You can’t disprove it so it must be true.” We are not talking the need for proof without a shadow of doubt. We look at the preponderance of the evidence. That something hasn‘t been discovered doesn’t mean it didn’t exist, but looking at things logically, the grand claims of the Book of Mormon should be backed up with evidence by now. The fact that there is no evidence for the grand cities and great battles makes it more likely than not that they did not exist or occur. But you say “Someday, someone might discover something that might be evidence.” Seems a lot like an irrational, blind faith. Here I have all this evidence for the veracity of the New Testament. My faith is a reasonable faith. Your evidence for the “truth” of the Book of Mormon is a burning in your bosom. That’s hardly what I call evidence.

      And I am not “anti-Mormon.” I am pro-Truth. Mormonism is a lie, so I oppose it.

      Report Post »  
    • rd6475@hotmail.com
      Posted on April 1, 2011 at 4:58pm

      @and to the Republic:

      Have you seen; http://www.republicfortheunitedstates.org/

      Report Post »  
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