Business

A Coming Gov‘t ’Green’ War on PVC Pipe?

A Government Green War on PVC?The U.S. General Services Administration (GSA), an independent U.S. government agency that “provides workplaces by constructing, managing, and preserving government buildings and by leasing and managing commercial real estate,” is considering new “green” building certification guidelines that require builders avoid using polyvinyl chloride (i.e. PVC).

But who would propose regulations that discourage the use of the third most widely produced (and consumed) plastic in the world? To answer that question, it’s important to understand a little more about the GSA, the U.S. Green Building Council, and the Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design rating system.

The GSA and it’s “green” agenda

The GSA was established by President Harry Truman on July 1, 1949, according to the agency’s website. The original purpose of the organization was to “dispose of war surplus goods, manage and store government records, handle emergency preparedness, and stockpile strategic supplies for wartime.”

However, since its founding, the GSA has been entrusted with several different projects, including in 1985 when, as a result of an Executive Order signed by President Ronald Reagan, the agency was delegated with the chore of offering “government wide policy oversight and guidance for federal real property management.”

And since then, energy efficiency and “going green” have become major goals of the agency.

For instance, according to the GSA’s site:

A 2009-2010 milestone was the implementation of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act efforts. With the goal of transforming federal buildings into higher performing, greener buildings, GSA awarded billions…[to fund] more than 500 companies in all 50 states, two territories and the District of Columbia. Here is the breakdown of Recovery Act dollars spent:

$4.5 billion: Federal building conversion to high-performance green spaces

$750 million: Federal building and courthouse renovations

$300 million: Fuel-efficient vehicles

$300 million: Land ports of entry renovation and constructionGSA’s 2010 Sustainability Plan sets an agency goal for a zero environmental footprint and a 30 percent reduction of greenhouse gas emissions by greening the federal supply chain and creating sustainable innovation within its building portfolio.

The USGBC and its LEED “green” building program

The U.S. Green Building Council (USGBC) is a Washington-based 501(c)3 nonprofit dedicated “to a prosperous and sustainable future through cost-efficient and energy-saving green buildings,” according to its website. The organization’s stated goal is to provide everyone with a “green” building within a generation.

To achieve its “green” goals, the USGBC developed the Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED), a ratings system that certifies buildings as being “green.”

A Government Green War on PVC?“LEED is transforming the way built environments are designed, constructed, and operated — from individual buildings and homes, to entire neighborhoods and communities,” the website proudly states, “Comprehensive and flexible, LEED works throughout a building’s  life cycle.”

However, although the USGBC is a non-profit, its activities are closely linked to the GSA via LEED.

“GSA uses the Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) Green Building Rating System of the U.S.” the government agency’s website claims.

The site continues:

The use of LEED ensures that sustainable strategies are considered in the development of all GSA building projects. GSA has recently increased its minimum requirement for new construction and substantial renovation of Federally-owned facilities to LEED Gold, the next highest level of certification. LEED consists of a set of prerequisites and credits with specific requirements for obtaining points in order to become a certified green building.

In fact, the GSA is so impressed with LEED that it proudly touts the fact that it has enrolled 50 buildings in the LEED program since August.A Government Green War on PVC?

Oh, by the way: the USGBC retains a federal adviser to its Board of Directors who is also a senior executive to the GSA. Donald Horn, whose taxpayer-funded job is to act as the GSA’s Deputy Director of the Office of Federal High-Performance Green Buildings, also serves as the Federal Adviser to the Board of Directors that runs the LEED program.

And as if that doesn’t raise some eyebrows, perhaps this will: LEED also makes a lot of money off of U.S. taxpayers.

First off, LEED certification is not cheap. Design and construction review of a new building can cost up to $27,500. In fact, in 2009, the USGBC made over $74 million from accreditation, membership dues, and certification fees. The non-profit organization reported $53 million in net assets at the end of that year.

A large chunk of that income came from the U.S. government.

The LEED directory on the USGBC website lists hundreds of federal, state, and local government buildings that have gone through the LEED certification process or were built to LEED specifications. In fact, in 2009 President Obama signed an executive order ordering all new buildings — and those under constructing — for government agencies to do whatever needed to be done to become eligible for LEED certification.

The extent to which the federal government subsidizes the USGBC is made clear when you realize the amount of LEED-certified building space in Washington, DC, which has more LEED-certified space on a per-capita basis than in any of the 50 states. Over 18.9 million square feet, or 31.5 square feet per resident, is LEED certified in the Washington, DC; the closest state is Colorado, with 2.7 square feet per person.

How do you suppose the government paid for all those LEED certificates (that’s a rhetorical question)?

The new green war on PVC

And this brings us all the way back to PVC. As first mentioned, the GSA is considering new USGBC regulations that include the “avoidance” of the popular material.

As the proposal states: The intent is to “decrease the concentrations of chemical contaminants that can damage air quality, human health, productivity, and the environment.” And to this end, LEED will certify whoever uses products or materials “that do not contain intentionally added substances present in the end product.” This includes Polyvinyl chloride.

A Government Green War on PVC?

In the next few months, the GSA will decide whether or not it will approve the new proposals put forth by the USGBC for LEED certification.

“There seems to be a welling up of concern over PVC again,” said Ric Jackson, director of external affairs for Quanex Building Products, according to Door And Window Manufacturer Magazine.

Allen Blakey, vice president of Industry and Government Affairs for the Vinyl Institute, says his organization is “astonished to see PVC added to the USGBC’s list of chemicals to avoid,” the report adds. According to Blakey, PVC is a material that’s been studied for some time by the USGBC itself.

Indeed, the proposal to “avoid” PVC is odd considering the fact that the USGBC released a memo back in 2007 stating:

  • “PVC performs better than some alternatives studied for window frames, siding, and drain-waste-vent pipe;”
  • “Relative to the environmental impact categories (acidification, eutrophication, ecotoxicity, smog, ozone depletion and global climate change), PVC performs better than several material alternatives studied;”
  • “If buyers switched from PVC to aluminum window frames, to aluminum siding, or to cast iron pipe, it could be worse than using PVC;”
  • “The evidence indicates that a credit that rewards avoidance of PVC could steer decision makers toward using materials that are worse on most environment impacts.”

USGBC and LEED should “develop guidelines for approval of innovation credits that move the industry forward,” the report concludes. “Recognizing that there are many possible ways to address this challenge, the capabilities and motivation of the marketplace should be engaged as a resource.”

As Blakey puts it:
USGBC has failed to live up to its claim of “technical rigor’ in LEED credits as well as its own procedures for balance, fairness and “consensus.” It has ignored scientific studies (including its own TSAC review), as well as studies for the European Commission and others, that found PVC’s life-cycle health and environmental performance as good as, or better than, the performance of competing materials.
He adds, “We are very disappointed that the USGBC has made this move; they’ve turned their backs on their own their own studies.”

So why is LEED trying to blacklist the material?

Well, maybe it’s important to understand a little bit more about LEED’s “founding founder” Robert Watson, a man who infamously said “Buildings are far and away the worst thing humans do to the environment.”A Government Green War on PVC?

Yes, LEED was founded by a ardent environmentalist, a “pioneer” of the modern green building movement, which might imply that the program has an agenda. It would also explain why LEED would propose phasing out a material that even the USGBC said was preferable to expensive and unreliable alternatives such as copper.

But for those familiar with Watson, this isn’t that shocking. After all, this is the same man who, while acting as an adviser on green projects and energy use to the People’s Republic of China, hailed the country’s new consumption tax on chopsticks, saying ”Taxing chopsticks is just the beginning. The ability to enforce the code on energy efficiency and environmental preservation is key.”

What does it all mean ?

It means that American businesses that buy and sell the widely consumed and economically priced material are now at the mercy of a government agency that’s considering proposals put forward by a non-profit group that uses a highly-valued ratings system created by a fervent environmentalist.

Does any of this sound like a good idea to anyone?

Comments (117)

1 2 3 4
  • LindzJ
    Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:15pm

    LEED is an established standard that corporations are also trying to adopt to measure their performance on constructing more environmentally friendly buildings. Some of the credits are useless and stupid (bike racks), others are great (low flow devices, natural/efficient heating/cooling methods). You’re not forced to use them…they are more like ideas to consider…a goal to strive toward.

    Upfront costs for new construction are very small in comparison to operating costs over the lifetime of the building. If you can plan ahead enough to cut energy and water consumption without giving up quality of life…who wouldn’t?

    I highly doubt anyone will stop us from using PVC unless they actually find something better to offer us that can replace it. Then we can worry.

    Report Post »  
    • starchy
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:46pm

      If there was something better to offer us, there would be no need to worry. Consumers should be able to choose if they prefer higher upfront costs with lower maintenance costs or a lower upfront cost with a higher maintenance cost. That decision should not be put into the hands of the federal government or any “non-profit” organization that earns millions of dollars annually due to the forceful hand of the federal government.

      Report Post » starchy  
    • AxelPhantom
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 1:04pm

      Lifetime of the building and lifetime of the product are two different things

      For example, my home may last 100-200 years and if the cost of a solar power unit is $30,000 it comes out to $150 a year or less than what it would cost me monthly in electric bills.

      However, in my area, it will cost me $20,000 every 15 years to replace the panels which brings the cost per month for the first 15 years ($30,000 inital + $20,000 replacement) to $3,000 a month which would be more than the mortgage. Not an efficient use of money.

      Report Post »  
    • LindzJ
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 1:33pm

      I don’t disagree with any of your comments. Just because it’s “green” doesn’t mean it necessarily makes good business sense, but there are aspects of the organization that are good. If you‘re saving money it’s worth it. Only an idiot would purchase something that doesn’t give a reasonable payback period. Do you need the LEED accreditation to know you’re making smart choices? Absolutely not.

      Report Post »  
    • Bloody Sam
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 1:46pm

      Well…why not? It’s only logical.
      You can’t buy oil based exterior paint or stain anymore so why not let the Gubmint kick it up a notch? The Greenies and Enviro-weenies give the bureaucracy regular oral gratification so…why not?

      Report Post » Bloody Sam  
    • SICKOFPCNESS
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 1:54pm

      Naaa….they’ll never stop us from using PVC unless we find something that works better…..kinda like they’ll never stop us from drilling for oil until we find something better….oh wait the have stopped oil drilling and there is nothing better! You have to remember the complete lack of logic on the left.

      Report Post »  
    • little big man
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 2:59pm

      lets go back to the old castiron pipe with lead Solder joints

      Report Post » little big man  
    • Jaycen
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 3:17pm

      @LINDZJ

      SERIOUSLY?!?!

      I’m sure no one will force us to stop using incandescent bulbs in favor of less efficient and more environmentally unfriendly bulbs.

      I’m sure no one will force automotive companies to meet efficiency standards that are impossible to achieve, AND don’t actually impact the environment.

      I’m sure no one will create regulations on housing or building based on nonsense environmentalist agendas.

      Keep voting for people like Obama. I‘m positive you’re more comfortable when someone else tells you what to think, do, and feel. Isn’t that just safer for everyone?

      Report Post » Jaycen  
    • SageInWaiting
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 4:43pm

      “I highly doubt anyone will stop us from using PVC unless they actually find something better to offer us that can replace it.” We can start with the significant drop in energy permitting… we don’t have a viable replacement – solar and wind won’t replace the GWatts lost of coal powered generation and bio-fuels won’t replace the oil. Light bulbs… what a great idea! Replace my $1 incandescent with a $50 LED monstrosity.

      Our government has proven time and time again, both Congress and the bureaucrats, that arbitrary edicts are common and just because there is no replacement on the horizon doesn‘t prevent them from creating bad policies and laws destructive to citizens’ lives and fortunes.

      I gladly embrace a list of suggestions – new technologies and designs that save me in utilities and energy. Let ME do the cost-benefit analysis and I’m decide how to best use my limited (financial) resources. Too often, some elite mandates these things because he believes this “country boy” in fly-over country is too dumb to pull up his pants. HE went to Haaavud, after all. I’m supposed to use a florescent porch light when the temp falls to -25F or be limited to a white roof or a low clearance BATTERY powered vehicle in this climate? After 20″ of slow, I NEED 4WD and its power to plow it. One size DOES NOT fit all, but in the mythical realm of the bureaucrat it does.

      Report Post » SageInWaiting  
    • RLGipe
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 5:22pm

      If you were to build a new office building right now and replace all of the pvc piping with copper and cast iron piping, the costs would skyrocket beyond belief. The cost of copper pipe alone would make it very cost prohibitive to build. The repair costs down the road would also skyrocket due to corrosion and wear etc., the modern plastic pipe has a much longer life than any copper pipe. In new construction there is literally miles of pipe that is enclosed in walls, floors, etc. that would need to be reopened at some point to repair adding significant costs to repairs.Having worked with plumbing pipes of all materials foe over twentry years, I find your comments to come from a very uninformed person. they need to get out of this crap and let the industry and market determine what’s the best and most cost effective material to use in a given installation.

      Report Post »  
    • 4xeverything
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 6:15pm

      @LINDZJ

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA! You keep hold of low flow toilet idea, that no one is forced to use, except you can no longer buy a standard toilet anymore in many areas, and my husband will continue to make $$$ hand over fist from idiots like yourself who won’t give them up. Oh yeah, my husband is a plumber and has been forward thinking enough to keep all of the standard toilets his customers replace and don’t want anymore. They are worth much more these days and the price just keeps going up.

      Report Post » 4xeverything  
    • From Virginia
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 6:36pm

      @4XEverything – Can you tell me how to get one of those old flow toilets?

      Report Post »  
    • Sicboy
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 8:26pm

      That is ABS pipe not PVC. Get it right.

      Report Post » Sicboy  
    • 4xeverything
      Posted on March 22, 2012 at 1:06pm

      @FROM VIRGINIA

      My best advice would be to ask your plumber/contractor to hold on to one for you from another job. I don‘t know Virginia’s plumbing code, but here it is OK to replace them in homes just not in businesses or newly built structures. All thanks to this type of bureaucracy of course.

      Report Post » 4xeverything  
  • Baddoggy
    Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:15pm

    If anyone has his address i will mail a bag of crap to his office. Too bad I cant set it on fire first.

    This is carbon credits part II…Does ANYONE in Congress have the balls to stop this? Spimeless wimps!!

    Report Post » Baddoggy  
    • TH30PH1LUS
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 2:21pm

      LEEDS will then mail you a copy of their waster recycling prohram: 1001 Uses For Crap.

      With PVC banned, buildings will now simply hand out His & Hers shovels and send the workers outside to dig a hole when they have to go #2.

      Those who wish to earn Green Points from LEEDS will be issued ziplock baggies – this way they can take “it” home and use it for stucco/wall repair, to dry and use as fuel to cook food over, or in their backyard garden (permits for backyard gardening can be filled out and turned in to the IRS for review).

      All a part of the Fundamental Transformation Obama promised! Say hello to the third world!

      Report Post » TH30PH1LUS  
    • starchy
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 2:54pm

      @ TH30PH1LUS
      Sorry – but burning the Crap would not meet EPA standards

      Report Post » starchy  
    • hidden_lion
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 5:32pm

      can’t use ziplocks….they are plastic, I am sure they will be banned as well. People need to break out the tar and sack of feathers and start dealing with these tools the way we used to.

      Report Post » hidden_lion  
  • GeorgeWashingtonslept here
    Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:14pm

    We are a Mechanical Contractor in DC so I asked the boss about this he said this has been in force for years………………nothing new.

    Report Post »  
    • BSdetector
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 1:00pm

      I’m an electrician in NJ and this will “necessarily skyrocket” the price of residential electrical work when it hits here.

      Report Post » BSdetector  
  • Green is a Lie
    Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:11pm

    Housing market will never return to its optimum stage again. The cyclical days are over and the current market that we experience is the new norm. These idiots want all new homes fire sprinklered, solared, windmilled, and now copper waste pipes and irrigation. Do you have any idea how much that adds to the cost per square foot of these already inflated new home costs? New Home builders, take your cash that is sitting in reserve, shut the doors, and go home. Walk away from this overly regulated, unsustainable market sector. This goverment does not want small businesses building new homes. Most home builders are non-union and this goverment wants only union construction projects. The agenda is much larger than PVC pipe.

    Report Post »  
    • Schteveo
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 8:33pm

      But Green, they won’t allow the digging, or refining of copper. It might harm the purple-peckered mud puppy!

      Report Post »  
  • bigmel754
    Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:07pm

    Unemployment just took another jump! What industry will be attacked next? I guess, soon we will be getting our prescriptions in a smaller version of the grocery recyclable bag. It was fun while it lasted, goodbye aluminum foil; it was fun while it lasted.

    Report Post »  
  • Temporal
    Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:06pm

    Another government boondoggle that puts image before facts. The NSF, another government organization, has for decades certified PVC as being “safe” to use, even with drinking water. But like every other material, it has to used in accordance with its specifications.

    Report Post »  
  • honor007
    Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:02pm

    I’m stocking up. My hubby is a plumber and we will use PVC. We will NOT comply!
    Tyrannical bastards.

    Report Post » honor007  
    • oldguy49
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:03pm

      read agenda 21

      Report Post »  
    • Soundman
      Posted on March 25, 2012 at 12:19am

      Oldguy49, are you reffering to the old or new agenda 21.???
      The old agenda 21 sign I knew as a kid , was benda 2 down off the middle finger!
      When the newer version obscures all common sense, revert to the original 21 (2 to 1 salute).

      Especially with idiots that post the following tyranny and crap from the U.N.
      – - Agenda 21 is a comprehensive plan of action to be taken globally, nationally and locally by organizations of the United Nations System, Governments, and Major Groups in every area in which human impacts on the environment. – -
      Well back to square one, salute like you mean it! You welcome all who view this.

      Report Post » Soundman  
  • COFemale
    Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:59am

    I have a grand idea. Progressive want to ban things that is bad for us Right?

    WELL LET’S BAN THE SUCKERS.

    Report Post » COFemale  
  • Rollo2
    Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:58am

    Fools!

    Report Post »  
  • TheObamanation
    Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:56am

    Green energy = bankrupt the country.

    Report Post » TheObamanation  
  • COFemale
    Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:55am

    Who died and made them the keepers of the environment? Oh yeah, that’s right KING Obama. This has got to stop. What these “do-gooders” are doing is ruining this country. Not only does their products cost MORE they have not been proven. What is the point of paying more for something that is going to cost more to install, replace and dispose. Like CFL’s comes to mind. If you combined all the CFL and the mercury it contained together, you have a toxic mixture. If the government thinks for one moment I will buy CFL’s and dispose of them correctly, they have another think coming. It is a waste of my time.

    HERE IS MY FIRST RESPONSE – I WILL NOT COMPLY.

    Report Post » COFemale  
    • TIREBITER
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 5:27pm

      I agree, and as of last count 756 light bulbs stashed.

      Report Post » TIREBITER  
  • Warphead
    Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:54am

    You know and I know what will have to happen to stop these people. It isn’t pretty but it could be done if not for all the political correctness. Like always, we will wait until our backs are against the wall, our very survival on the brink before we act. By act, I mean do what has to be done to stop them as opposed to trying to stop them in our current court systems. It is all one big convoluted joke with a punch line that is not funny. These environmentalists will not be satisfied until you are living in a cave. No, scratch that. They won’t be satified until you are dead. So you ask, what is he talking about, this thing that will stop them. I can‘t say it here but let’s just say it really is us or them and a matter of life and death. These people are destroying this country from within. We all know what will have to happen sooner or later.

    Report Post » Warphead  
    • Bible Quotin' Science Fearin' Conservative American
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:11pm

      You watch too many movies, moron.

      You people are NOTHING without your guns, wimps.

      Report Post » Bible Quotin' Science Fearin' Conservative American  
    • getourcountryback
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:21pm

      BibleQuoter: touched a nerve did he? Are you one of the greenies that thinks plants have feelings? Feelings, like the one up Mathews leg, misty cobweb covered feelings, of the way I want you all to live……

      Report Post »  
    • kindling
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 2:12pm

      Very true Warphead….I grew up believing lead was bad for us and now I see there is a mental disorder that is improved by the supplements of lead.

      Report Post » kindling  
    • Bible Quotin' Science Fearin' Conservative American
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 3:39pm

      At what point did I take a side in PVC-gate? I’m insulting this paranoid moron. I don’t care one way or the other about how PVC is manufactured and used.

      Report Post » Bible Quotin' Science Fearin' Conservative American  
    • wmcritter
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 4:36pm

      Civil War. See, I said it an nothing bad happened.
      Sadly, I think it is inevitable. We are not a united country. There are those that believe government is god and must rule your life so that you are never hurt or offended, and there are those that believe government is our employee that we hire in a limited fashion to help keep law and order. Those two views are mutually exclusive and can’t co-exist much longer.

      If the SC does not strike Obamacare down, and Obama is re-elected, I believe that will be the straw that breaks the camel’s back and starts the war, just as Lincoln’s election triggered the civil war. Either we cower and accept Obama as our king, or we fight back, those are the only 2 choices.

      Report Post »  
  • Joisey
    Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:54am

    Clearly this is just another attack on the use of petroleum. What next? Will O’Bozo be rolling out plumbing pipe made from algae? How soon will this insanity collapse under its own weight?

    This is a twofer for the Left: Block use of oil AND make housing more expensive.

    Report Post » Joisey  
  • Detroit paperboy
    Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:53am

    Let’s all commit suicide , so we will be safe from all these harmful things…. Sheese,,,,,

    Report Post »  
  • Dougral Supports Israel
    Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:52am

    You can bet that sooner or later this will filter down to what we can use in our homes. If we don’t get these enviro-Nazi’s out of power we will all be caught in an inescapable web of rules and regulations that make it almost impossible to do anything.

    Report Post »  
  • South Philly Boy
    Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:49am

    Communist

    Report Post » South Philly Boy  
  • rottiesforfreedom
    Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:47am

    this is just what the construction industry needed. more regulatory interference. hell of a way to create jobs

    Report Post »  
  • Cavy from VA
    Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:45am

    Lets see … we must … MUST … ban anything that MAY be bad for humans. You see … this is all part of he plan … the “Global Warming” … it might hurt the children … it may cause cancer if you breath the vapors for an extended period of time … plan. DO NOT QUESTION THE PLAN … it’s for your own good … because we all have “alphabets” following our names which means we are really really really … and I mean REALLY smart … we know better than you. We don needs no stinkin freedom … to do anything that MIGHT hurt us or our friends and family. We needs to have the “people” follow our “guidelines” … WHY because we have the “alphabets” and you don’t … so you must listen to us … because you are wrong if you want to use something like PVC … that releases a very small amount of vapor into the atmosphere … heck you might kill a gnat and you know how that goes … first the gnats … then the rats … then it’s us!!

    Freaking A$$ Airhead progressives … all programmed up and ready to take control … because they Know better!

    ANYBODY BUT OBAMA OR ANOTHER LEMMING DEMOCRAT!!!

    TEA!!!!

    Report Post » Cavy from VA  
  • Vernon Black
    Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:42am

    This is Agenda 21 being implemented!!!….Google it!

    Report Post » Vernon Black  
    • SimpleTruths
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:55am

      Well then it started with your hero, Reagan. He’s the one that TRIPLED the size of the Federal Payroll, created dozens of new Federal agencies (like the GSA, created by Executive Order!).

      Report Post » SimpleTruths  
    • COFemale
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:58am

      NO, I am staying away from Google. They are Communist too. Go with Excite or Alta Vista.

      Report Post » COFemale  
  • Stoic one
    Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:37am

    HeLL NO! PVC is stable ! Oh! it is made out of OOOOOi i i i i LLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!
    That is what this is about. Lets go back to the old crap, cast iron with oakum and lead. yea that’s it.

    Report Post » Stoic one  
    • qpwillie
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:44am

      My first thought was, I wonder if the fact that PVC is made from petroleum had anything to do with this.

      Report Post » qpwillie  
    • CatB
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:49am

      Yes … and in Florida that old crap doesn’t last at all … PVC is the only thing to use down here .. can’t have something that LASTS!

      Report Post »  
  • cookcountypatriot
    Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:34am

    these disgusting anti american creeps…they will do what ever it takes to bring down this country…

    Report Post » cookcountypatriot  
  • BurntBacon
    Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:34am

    Although I’ll have to read the article a couple times to fully comprehend it, there seems to be a common theme: Big Gov’t chooses Which Building Materials are Okay and Which Building Materials are Not Okay. The end of that story is the AMAZEMENT and SHOCK at the skyrocketing Market prices and then the Obligatory Bailout of the Housing Market.

    Report Post » BurntBacon  
  • Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
    Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:32am

    One more portion of the massive intrusive government of Big Brother and Big Sister.

    Report Post » Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}  
  • HorseCrazy
    Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:25am

    I am beyond tired of this. do they declare wars on poverty? gangs? anything relevant? nope they pick pvc pipes, gasoline, etc. I want my country back

    Report Post »  
    • Stoic one
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:39am

      They already did those. then handcuffed & hamstrung those required to carry out those duties.

      Report Post » Stoic one  
    • cessna152
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:55am

      Yes, the takeover is quite obvious to those who want to see it….Reliance on God and his direction.

      Report Post » cessna152  
  • Farmer John
    Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:22am

    The regime is accelerating its attack on our nation, our life style, and our liberty. This is but one example. As Spring turns to Summer, the attacks will escalate. If Obama has his way we will all be living in caves and fire will be banned. One giant leap for mankind!

    Report Post » Farmer John  
    • CatB
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:24am

      Too true … they see that it is now or never and I fear they will do WHATEVER it takes to make it NOW.

      Report Post »  
    • lukerw
      Posted on March 21, 2012 at 2:25pm

      Save our System… Fire a Government Worker! Anyone have Matches or something that goes Bang?

      Report Post » lukerw  
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