A Rabbi, a Priest & an Imam Weigh in on Obama’s Religious Freedom Stance
- Posted on February 15, 2012 at 9:01pm by
Billy Hallowell
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Accuracy in Media’s (AIM) Benjamin Johnson sat down with Rev. Avelino Gonzales, Imam Johari Malik and Rabbi Charles Feinberg in Washington, D.C. to discuss the religious freedom issues associated with the Obama administration’s contraception mandate. AIM reports on the video project, which reveals the faith leaders’ intriguing stances on religious-freedom issues:
Accuracy in Media discovered an alarming narrative developing in the mainstream press. Pundits and reporters have chosen to apply the debate to the horse-race for the GOP nomination, or another battle in the culture war for reproductive rights. Unfortunately a larger, constitutionally intrinsic question is being overlooked: will this pending mandate forever endanger our religious liberties for the sake of public policy?
“Never in the history of the U.S. has such an assault on religious freedom been seen,” said Rev. Gonzales. ”[The mandate is] forcing the church to take a position where they’re going to violate their most fundamental beliefs with regards to the sanctity of human life.”
Imam Malik strikes a similar tone throughout the video.
“That contraception should be mandated in insurance benefits of employers, we open a huge can of issues,” he explains. ”When you require nonprofits — religious organizations to engage in something that they don’t believe in, because you think it’s for the public good — now you have a church and state quagmire.”
Rabbi Feinberg, though, takes a different view.
“No one’s saying that they have to use birth control,” Feinberg says. ”If we had a single-payer system here, this wouldn’t be an issue…it’s only an issue because health insurance is provided by employers.”
See how these leaders explain their diverse views on the contraception mandate and the associated religious freedom issues, below:
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Comments (85)
midwesthippie
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 6:53ama rabbi, a priest, and an imam walked into a bar and…
Report Post »dugbru
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 11:52amAnd much to my surprise we see a smarmy laughing Rabbi looks the fool out of the three.
Report Post »DrFrost
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 12:13pmBut the rabbi makes a good point. The fact that employers buy your insurance gives them an inappropriate amount of influence over you. This is exactly why the government shouldn’t be involved in health care. People should buy their own health care. People should control their own health care. If they don’t want an insurance company that funds abortions then they should have the right to make that choice as opposed to having their employer or government make it for them.
Report Post »Arr-dey
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 1:39pmYou said: People should buy their own health care. People should control their own health care. If they don’t want an insurance company that funds abortions then they should have the right to make that choice as opposed to having their employer or government make it for them.
Hahahahahahaha!
Do you have a couple hundred thou in the bank for when you contract a catastrophic illness? I have bad news for you – the insurance you have will do everything in their power to stick you with the bill so they can maintain their bottom line. Your solution is laughable (hence the laughing) in a profit-driven system.
Report Post »Arr-dey
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 1:39pmYou said: People should buy their own health care. People should control their own health care. If they don’t want an insurance company that funds abortions then they should have the right to make that choice as opposed to having their employer or government make it for them.
Hahahahahahaha!
Do you have a couple hundred thou in the bank for when you contract a catastrophic illness? I have bad news for you – the insurance you have will do everything in their power to stick you with the bill so they can maintain their bottom line. Your solution is laughable (hence the laughing) in a profit-driven system.
Report Post »Hickory
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 7:08pmA cowboy, a Muslim and an American Indian were sitting on a bench waiting for a bus. The Muslim looks at the Indian and says; “You have no power because there are so few of you. We have power because there are 2 billion of us.” The cowboy looks at the Muslim and says (as he rotates the cylinder of his six gun); “Don’t get so high and mighty. We haven’t started playing cowboys and Muslims yet.”
Report Post »TiredAmerican7
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 6:07amFinally. At least we have one Muslim’s opinion on this. I thought maybe this had become strictly a Judeo Christian issue. I would think the Muslims would be leading the protest.
Report Post »mike_trivisonno
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 9:39amNo one cares what the muslims think as we all know that they spread their faith in Allah through violent Jihad. They have nothing but disdain for Western Civilization.
They should just shut up and self deport.
Report Post »TomFerrari
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 11:55amislamics are specifically exempted in obamacare. Islamics do not approve of gambling, and consider insurance to be gambling (they do have a point). So, they are exempt from paying for obamacare. However, the DO receive the insurance. They just get obamacare for free.
So, it is another transfer if wealth. But from non-islamics to islamics.
They get the “free” coverage, which we pay for. This is a tax. A tax that islamics call “jizya”. All non-islamics are required to pay jizya taxes to islamics, if we refuse to convert, and IF we are allowed by islamics, to continue to live, after refusing to convert.
obama was raised islamic. His school records prove it. So he knows full well about this.
He CLAIMS to be “Christian” and yet, last year he cancelled the National Day Of Prayer, while HOSTING an islamic day of prayer, AT THE WHITE HOUSE, for a FULL DAY, which he attended!
And we are supposed to go on believing his lie of claiming to be a “Christian?”
Report Post »DrFrost
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 12:31pmWhether Obama is a christian is between him and God. If he says he is I’m not going to question that. I might say he‘s not behaving in a way consistent with Christ’s teaching, as we all fail to do from time to time, but I‘m not going to question whether or not he’s accepted Christ as his savior.
On the other hand there is ample evidence that he’s sympathetic to the muslim faith and, in some ways, hostile towards christians. But this latest issue is simply the logical extension of concluding that the government should supply health care. If the government supplies health care as a right then it has to be the same for everyone. Having an employer in the middle who complains about having to support something they find offensive is a transitory issue because, eventually, the middle man will be removed. So to Obama this isn’t about religious freedom.
But Obama is wrong on so many levels here. If he could understand that Muslims would want to be exempt to Obamacare based on religious reasons, and he was conscientious enough to them to put that exemption for them in the law specifically, then you would think he could understand that Catholics won’t fund, condone or perform abortions and the law should make allowances for them as well. But apparently not.
Do you really want your government controlling your health care?
Report Post »EddardStark
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 2:04pmTedFerrari –
I’m even going to let it slide that you think all Muslims, or “islamics” as you like to put it, think and do all of the same things because I want to understand the iron clad logic of what you just said.
So let me ge this straight:
1. Muslims do not have to buy health insurance because it is against their religion, but they set aside their religious “gambling” objection just because they can and they like to screw Christian tax payers.
2. Then to refine your point – you assert that individual mandate penalties for those without insurance, which haven’t been implemented yet by the way, are actually a form of jizya or RELIGIOUS tax. And that the reason that RELIGIOUS tax is collected is to pay for something that the Islamic RELIGION rejects?
Do you ever re-read your posts? You realize that you contradicted yourself twice in that short, hate-filled rant. It must be really hard to be so angry all the time.
Also, are you really under the impression that we live in a Dhimmi? Your only evidence seems to be that Obama is secretly Muslim, which means that the religion that you insist seeks world domination and mass conversion is actually content to secretly tax a Christian population for a nominally secular reason. How exactly does that make sense?
Report Post »FLDeb
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 5:51amIt does not matter where you stand on this issue – it is wrong – it is not the role of the feds to dictate.
What bothers me MORE is how the little king stood there and LIED. Oh you don’t have to provide it, the insurance company will. Now we all know that insurance companies are in business to see how much charity they can dole out. They are just going to go THEIR employees and ask for donations to pay for these costs when a religious institution does not want to.
Someone please wake me up because I am going to have a heart attach if I have to listen to this horrible night mare any more. We have 1 ONE ONE single person walking in the United States that believed that crap?!!!!! With all the LIES he has told (and I mean out and out lies) that man will never have my respect.
Report Post »Rocky66
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 3:58amRE: WE ARE ALL CATHOLICS NOW CAMPAIGN
OBAMA IS SUPPORTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION. Here’s how:
Pursuant to the HHS mandate, Obama is coercing all Americans to respect the establishment of Secular Humanism, which is a religion, as proven, as a matter of law, below:
Report Post »“Interestingly, in Torcaso v. Watkins, 367 U.S. 488 (1961) the Supreme Court referred to ‘Secular Humanism’ as a religion (at 495, n. 11)”, at n. 43, page 113 in the book: “The Supreme Court’s Constitution” by Barnard H. Siegan (1987).
As an incentive to join Glenn Beck’s “WE ARE ALL CATHOLICS NOW” campaign, note this:
“James Madison who is generally recognized as the leading architect of the religion clauses of the First Amendment, observed..… that ‘the same authority which can force a citizen to contribute three pence only of his property for the support of any one establishment, may force him to conform to any other establishment in all cases whatsoever. 2 Writings of James Madison 183, 186 (Hunt ed. 1901). The concern of Madison … was quite clearly that religious liberty ultimately would be the victim if government could employ its taxing and spending powers to aid one religion over another [emphasis, added] ….”, taken from Flast v. Cohen [392 U.S. 83, 103-4, 88 S.Ct., at 1954] by the U. S. Supreme Court.
not a liberal
Posted on February 19, 2012 at 11:04pmThank you for that post, enlightening. Why is no media outfit posing this secular huminism slant?
Report Post »Texas.7
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 12:51amThat Rabbi really didn’t get it. Yes, it is a direct assault on religious organizations to make them carry insurance for the abortion pill, contraceptives and eventually, abortion. Our problem isn’t simply tied to the fact that the church would have to pay for it- because if so, the Rabbi would be correct that a single-payer plan would fix it. But this is a matter of individual freedoms. Should the government supply abortion? Should our tax dollars or insurance premiums pay for others to kill babies? No. It is a matter of conscience for each taxpayer, each insurance policy holder. The government is here to protect and defend our rights. The ability for the government to determine which lives have value, and which should be defended is an atrocity. Murder runs contrary to our right to live- and don’t tell me you are concerned about our daughters… Boys and girls are killed through abortion. Living in a country which allows abortion is bad enough. But to fun and encourage abortion is much worse.
Report Post »marion
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 12:39am“No one’s saying that they have to use birth control,” Feinberg says. ”If we had a single-payer system here, this wouldn’t be an issue…it’s only an issue because health insurance is provided by employers.”
HERE IS THE REAL ANSWER TO THE QUESTION. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER.
Report Post »Bete Noire
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 11:51pmA Rabbi a Priest and an Imam walk into a bar. Bartender says, “What can i get you?”
Rabbi says, ” A glass of Maneschevitz please.”
Priest says, ” A shot of Jameson’s please.”
Imam says, ” My usual of course.”
Bartender says, ” A mug of Blood of Infidel coming right up!”
Report Post »nelbert
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 5:35amThis article was the perfect setup for a joke.
Report Post »NewsStud
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 12:28pmYou disgust me.
You chest-thumping “Christians” (Enquoted because you’re not very Christ-like. You act like a drunk football fan) constantly demand proof that peaceful, educated, modernized Muslims who share values with western society actually exist. Here’s an Imam defending pre-natal life, and opposing government interference with religious freedoms and you make childish insults. What’s next? You gonna tell the Imam he’s a stupid-head?
Grow up. Contribute something worthwhile or please shut up.
Report Post »ThoreauHD
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 11:50pmA muslim, a communist, and a illegal alien walk into a bar.
The bartender says, “What’ll it be Mr. President?”
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 10:39amOh, witty! +1 :)
Report Post »America First
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 2:15pmGood one!
Report Post »apedescendent
Posted on February 20, 2012 at 5:01amA communist, a Jew, and a heretic with a long dark beard are entering a bar..
Report Post »says the barkeeper: “Holy Christ, Lord Jesus!”
lukerw
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 11:34pmChristians, Jews, & Muslims voted Obama into Office… IRONIC!
Report Post »Junter
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 1:40amI know right? I’m sure you never made a bad decision in your life.
Report Post »cemerius
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 10:46pmAhhh the Rabbi sounds like an Obama voter!!! Sanity coming from an Iman? These are amazingly scarey times we all are treading in………
Report Post »bikerr
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 10:23pmHave not read all the comments,but the headline looked like the start of a good joke!
Report Post »jhaydeng
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 10:44pmThat’s what I thought too!!!!
Report Post »Baddoggy
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 11:06pmThe joke is on us…they are not united against Obama at all…The Iman is regurgitating Obamas plan of making the Insurance companies pay….
Report Post »NEWSTALKER
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 10:20pmETERNAL CONSEQUENCES???
Report Post »Religious conviction and one’s outcome of eternal life shall be judged by God. Should a person be forced to sin against God or forced to condone a path to sin, where they will have an “ETERNAL RESULT” in judgement from God after they die here on earth? For each one’s life shall be judged by God. Therefore, do not decree a law to anyone that violates God’s laws or leads a path to sin against God. THIS PILL DESIGNED FOR ONE PURPOSE, to prevent and destroy God’s will of designed creation of His own, aka murder. Same applies to The Morning After Pill. Again, God creates life= Life begins at conception and destroying life at conception is in view to be murder, which violates God’s commandment (decree)=SIN. Those who believe in God, cannot condone a path to sin (what is considered murder and under their lawfully moral convictions in which they would be held eternally responsible, as well in condoning SIN.
G-WHIZ
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 10:10amto NEWSTALKER: There is NO animal or plant on this earth which knowingly wants to destroy life before it(he/she) is born, except HUMANS, even our DNA-ancestors would not even think of it. There are some large cats which will destroy/eat the young of the previous suiter to make sure that only their-young are in their family, but they do this because of instinct, not by choice. There is no animal/plant besides humans, which will kill for fun…other creatures will fight to chase-away their enemies out of their areas, not to kill–kill–kill…in the hundreds-of millions.
Report Post »universalphilos
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 10:14pmGovernmental agencies seem to be finding ways that aren’t called taxation, such as fees, etc. Since churches are tax exempt, is this a way to creep toward taxing them? One day, a governmental agency can just change the name as the last act, since it’s already required by law to be paid. What’s that called? Euphemism.
Report Post »00gabooga
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 10:13pmI’m still wondering how contraception became a part of health care coverage at all. You HAVE to have food in order to live, but that’s not covered by health insurance, you’re expected to pay for food out of your regular wage. Regular bathing and brushing your teeth is conducive to good health, but you don’t submit your water bill to your insurance company. You don’t have to have contraception to avoid pregnancy, but somehow that is considered a right instead of a privilege?
Report Post »GeorgieJo
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 10:26pmObummers minions want contraceptives to be THE TOPIC instead of abortion.
They don’t want you to think about the ECONOMY or food prices or gas prices.
Simply they don’t want you to think…..Just vote for 4 more years of socialism.
OMG in 2012
Report Post »lothlorien
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 2:02amOogabooga…dang good point.
Report Post »Sainttess
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 12:23pmMy thoughts exactly. In the mid 1980s my doctor put me on birth control pills for reasons totally unrelated to birth control. I had to practically jump through hoops to get my health insurance to pay for it. I had to have my doctor write a letter to the insurance company stating why I was on the drug, etc. They finally did cover it, but it sure was a hassle. I just do not understand why an employer cannot have the choice of not offering contraception. I don’t see how it is a “right”, that must be covered by health insurance. If you want it and your employer doesn’t cover it, buy it yourself. I guess that’s too simple.
Report Post »The Third Archon
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 10:03pm“A RABBI, A PRIEST & AN IMAM WEIGH IN ON OBAMA’S RELIGIOUS FREEDOM STANCE”
Report Post »Funny–I respect NONE of these peoples’ claims to authority.
tzion
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 10:17pmAre you saying an atheist is a better representative of religious views? Next you‘ll tell me that Mexico knows what’s best for South Africa.
Report Post »nappy
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 10:26amneither do I. As soon as they claim some religious mantle as so called ‘leaders’ they’re usually full of BS. IRRELEVANT.
Report Post »Gravejoke
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 9:54pmHow people acquire contraception is not the issue. How employers provide health insurance to their employees isn’t the issue. Does the government have the authority to decide what a non-profit religious organization must do? Does the mandate violate the first amendment regarding religious liberty and separation of church and state?
The nativity scenes and ten commandments being removed from all government property should give you a hint. If there is to be a separation between church and state then let them be entirely separate: the government cannot mandate who does what within non-profit religious organizations.
Report Post »SoupSandwich
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 9:53pmDon’t give the govt an inch…the big 3 religions need to get together more often on topics of govt intrusion of any kind.
Report Post »dealer@678
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 9:51pmBut what does that skank Maxine Waters think. Thats what i weanna know
Report Post »georgiavietvet
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 9:50pmthe rabbi is a fool. the other 2 clerics speak the truth. obama has to be stopped.
Report Post »qzz
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 9:47pmAs an orthodox Jew I know my fair share of Rabbis. I don’t know why they chose to interview the most liberal Rabbi I have ever heard speak. His views are certainly not normative of most Rabbis I know. It just perpetuates the stereotype of Jews being lemmings for Democrats. I think that is changing. Certainly in the observant community the majority of people tend to either hold conservative views or be Republicans. The Rabbi at my synagogue voted McCain and calls Obama a disaster any time he is mentioned.
Report Post »yehudis
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 9:57pmI am also an observant Jew, and find it misleading that this interviewer used a Liberal Reformed Jewish Rabbi for this interview. The normative in the othrodox community is NOT a liberal view, but a very consertive one. We do not advocate the use of birth control. Nor do we advocate for the liberal socialist agenda put forth by the Obama administration.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 10:23pmDitto to all that. Reform Rabbis come from a branch of Judaism that sees traditions and religious laws as suggestions. They once tried to make the Jewish Sabbath on Sunday to be more like the Christians. Even a Conservative (sect not political) Rabbi would have been more representative of the traditional religious views of Judaism. They may as well have invited a non-practicing Jew.
Report Post »capnbrit
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 10:24pmThank you for your response. You are right of the stereotypical tone to the Rabbi’s response. I have friends who are Jewish and are enraged by this mandate and they, too have often been categorized as “left-leaning” because of their faith. I wish they had chosen who the interviewed more carefully.
Report Post »angelcat
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 11:41pmThanks for your comment. It explains why the rabbi was so supportive of Obama. I didn’t think his attitutde was that of most Jewish people I know and respect.
Report Post »goahead.makemyday
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 11:22amI’m glad you guys(girls) commented. I knew that this Rabbi isn’t saying what the majority of the Jewish population agrees with. I believe they chose a Reformist because they needed to portray that not all of the major religions oppose this. Then they can make this seem like the issue isn’t as big as it is, at least to the average American who has no connections to other religions.
Report Post »NewsStud
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 12:21pmI‘ll agree this Rabbi isn’t representative of even most secular Jews.
While most secular Jews may be pro-choice, I don’t know any that agree with the Obama policy. They’d likely tell you that “choice” means “choice” not “mandatory anti-life“ and that the Church has a constitutionally supported ”choice” to not pay for abortions.
Report Post »GMAN455
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 9:40pmThe Plot Thickens
An intensive investigation has revealed the identity of the man whose
Social Security number (SSN) is being used by President Obama:
Jean Paul Ludwig, who was born in France in 1890, immigrated to the
United States in 1924, and was assigned SSN 042-68-4425 (Obama’s
current SSN) on or about March 1977.
Ludwig lived most of his adult life in Connecticut . Because of that,
his SSN begins with the digits 042, which are among only a select few
reserved for Connecticut residents.
Obama never lived or worked in that state! Therefore, there is no
reason on earth for his SSN to start with the digits 042. None
whatsoever!
Now comes the best
part! Ludwig spent the final months of his life in
Hawaii , where he died.
Conveniently, Obama’s grandmother, Madelyn Payne Dunham, worked
part-time in the Probate Office in the Honolulu Hawaii Courthouse, and
therefore had access to the SSNs of deceased individuals.
The Social Security Administration was never informed of Ludwig’s
death, and because he never received Social Security benefits there
were no benefits to stop and therefore, no questions were ever raised.
The suspicion, of course, is that Dunham, knowing her grandson was not
Report Post »a U.S. Citizen, either because he was born in Kenya or became a
citizen of Indonesia upon his adoption by Lolo Soetoro simply scoured
the probate records until she found someone who died who was not
receiving Social Security benefits, and sele
JP4JOY
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 9:49pmNow if we can only get Eric the Withholder to prosecute we’re set. Congress won’t act because Holder will pull up trash on anyone who DARES question the Imperious One.
Report Post »acovenantinblood
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 9:59pmSo Obama should have a pretty sweet social security check.
Report Post »Cranky
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 10:09pmSnopes has debunked your story, at least if you trust Snopes.com
He’s definately unqualified to be our president but the media will paint him as “the greatest” and his lawyers will prevent us from knowing his background. Too bad for our country. I dread the outcome of the coming election.
He’s best refered to as “Ojekyllnhyde”
Report Post »bikerr
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 10:29pm@GMAN455–Good stuff!. could you possibly post where you got the info?. Your name reminds me of the song“White Lightning”.
Report Post »brother_ed
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 9:34pmWhy do people think that it‘s unfair that an employer doesn’t provide a certain benefit? Can’t they work somewhere else?
If my employer doesn’t have a matching 401k plan, can I sue them for being unfair?
Collectivism is a dead end road.
Report Post »JP4JOY
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 9:30pmThis is a real quandary for Obummer. I think the Rabbi has let the cat out of the bag. The single payer system is the only way to resolve this constitutional issue and the push will be for the SCOTUS to make it the law of the land. Watch for it. The current administration seems to be pretty good at skinning cats.
Report Post »UBETHECHANGE
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 9:27pmWe all need to be Catholics now and take our butts to DC and show them our numbers and let them hear our voices loud and clear! We need to organize now!
Report Post »NOTAMUSHROOM
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 9:24pmOh. The Rabbi is a Marxist then?
Report Post »UBETHECHANGE
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 9:31pmSeems to be.
Report Post »oldguy49
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 9:33pmyep.he has forgotten lesons learned in the 40′s
Report Post »Pat_in_NC
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 9:33pmNo, the Rabbi is just pointing out that big government can make things better by simplifying things.
Report Post »Like say, if we got rid of beef and required everyone to eat pork.
A single meat source would avoid all the bovine gas problem and simplify the supply chain.
And no one has a problem eating pork do they?
Lonescrapper
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 9:38pmOr we can just force all Kosher Deli’s to sell bacon and sausage.
Report Post »Lonescrapper
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 9:43pmAnd if they won’t sell sausage and bacon to their customers, they have to offer a coupon for free bacon from the non kosher deli down the street…
Report Post »Smokey_Bojangles
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 9:47pmI Used to say we need to stand with the Jews and we need to stand with Israel and we need to back God’s Chosen People.Considering a Rabbi was the Big Complainer over the Scout Snipers kiss logo,Here is a Rabbi pushing Socialism/Marxism,the Jews Consistently vote Majority Democrat,George Soros does everything in is Power to Undermine our Economy…….Maybe we SHOULD bring our troops home and let Israel swim on their own a while.
Report Post »goahead.makemyday
Posted on February 16, 2012 at 11:27amSmokey,
Report Post »What you don’t realize is that this Rabbi is part of a group of very liberal and very much a minority group of Jewish people. Most Jews do not agree with what this Rabbi says, as always the media tries to grab the most liberal religious leaders they can for these interviews. Of course the Reverend and the Imam kinda backfired on them.