Faith

‘A Significant Victory’: Atheists Lose Battle Over Jesus Statue Atop Montana Mountain

Jesus Cross Will Stay on Montana Mountain Despite Atheists Efforts to Remove it

Last October, we reported about atheists’ attempts to have a Jesus statue removed from government-owned land on a Montana mountain. Now, months later, it seems non-believers have lost their battle to have the religious symbol banished. In a press release delivered this afternoon, the American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ) announced:

…today’s decision by the federal government to renew a lease that keeps in place a World War II memorial on a Montana mountain — a statue of Jesus — is a “significant victory” and represents a sound defeat for an atheist organization that challenged the memorial.

The Blaze previously reported that the statue was on U.S. Forest Service land and, thus, was being threatened by the Freedom From Religion Foundation, a church-state separatist group. The Forest Service has teetered back and forth regarding whether the statue would be able to stay on federal land, as the group initially said that it would no longer permit a renewal contract last year. The Missoulian has more about this challenge:

Last August, a Wisconsin atheist organization challenged the Forest Service permit, arguing it was an unconstitutional state endorsement of religion. The Forest Service initially opted to remove the statue, but suspended that decision for a public review.

In October, though, supporters received a small victory when the agency changed course. Now, following public support for the statue, the government has officially announced that the land will, again, be rented to the KOC.

Jesus Cross Will Stay on Montana Mountain Despite Atheists Efforts to Remove it

“This decision by the National Park Service represents a significant victory in defense of the history and heritage of the region,” said Jay Sekulow, Chief Counsel of the ACLJ. “We’re delighted that federal officials understood what we have argued all along — that this statue of Jesus does not convey any government religious endorsement of religion. Instead, this historically important memorial is designed to commemorate the sacrifice made by those killed in World War II.”

“The special-use permit that originally allowed a local chapter of the Knights of Columbus to install the memorial was granted in 1953, the Blaze’s Chris Santarelli originally reported. “The KOC installed the statue as a memorial to local veterans of World War II.”

The community, as corroborated by the massive movement in support of the statue, has revered the statue for decades and was intent on seeing its placement remain. The National Park Service announced today that it will renew the KOC permit for another 10 years and acknowledged the statue‘s importance to the region’s history.

“I understand the statue has been a long-standing object in the community since 1955, and I recognize that the statue is important to the community for its historical heritage based on its association with the early development of the ski area on Big Mountain,” proclaimed Chip Weber, the supervisor of Flathead National Forest.

Here’s a video report from late last year that provides a background on the drama surrounding the debate:

So — for now — it seems the debate has ended. The 57-year tradition will continue.

Comments (170)

1 2 3
  • bankerpapaw
    Posted on January 31, 2012 at 7:20pm

    The atheists had better get used to losing because in the near future, they will lose big time.

    Report Post »  
    • MCDAVE
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 11:32pm

      It should be obvious to every one by now that Obama hates Christians..The left liberals have organized this attack against God

      Report Post »  
    • Chuck Stein
      Posted on February 1, 2012 at 1:15am

      “The left liberals have organized this attack against God” — I am sure that they would not see it that way because they do not believe in God. Note, also, that I’m not disagreeing with you.

      Report Post »  
    • NHwinter
      Posted on February 1, 2012 at 7:57am

      How nice to win one for a change since we are the majority.

      Report Post » NHwinter  
    • carbonyes
      Posted on February 1, 2012 at 8:13am

      If the atheists don’t turn and get it right, they will lose for all eternity, a Hellish position to be in. No pun intended!

      Report Post »  
    • Better Dead Than Red
      Posted on February 1, 2012 at 1:39pm

      I’m an agnostic.. on the fence about a lot of things.
      On the atheistic side of me, Jesus doesn’t bother me. Nativity scenes, Bibles, prayers, etc do not bother me. Religious bullies and people who assault the advancement of humanity (ie Islam) DOES bother me. That’s where I personally draw the line, plain and simple.

      There is no religious freedom here anymore. Atheists are bullies and I’m so saddened to be associated with them. I don’t agree with their tactics or their angry gangs.

      If you’re not strong enough to take opposition to your views, then you’re not strong enough to be an American. Just my two cents.

      Report Post » Better Dead Than Red  
    • Leopold
      Posted on February 1, 2012 at 4:37pm

      BETTER RED THAN DEAD

      It is nice to hear from someone who is so open and honest. Thank you for being part of this community.

      Report Post »  
    • Balpit
      Posted on February 2, 2012 at 1:57pm

      Better Red Than Dead…

      Militant atheists could learn a lot from you. I too cannot stand religious bullies (since when did God appoint them second-in-command?). I have no beef with others’ beliefs. When I go to a Chinese restaurant and see a statue of Buddha, I don’t get offended, or demand they remove it from my sight.

      Report Post »  
    • Viin
      Posted on February 18, 2012 at 1:54pm

      I don’t get it why are we going to lose?

      Report Post »  
    • jonsnowthewall
      Posted on February 18, 2012 at 2:28pm

      Bankerpapa: “The atheists had better get used to losing because in the near future, they will lose big time.”

      True that man! Everyone should prepare for meeting the one true god, Thor. Oh, were you talking about your deity? Sorry. Mine is better than yours. Mine slayed Ice demons!

      Report Post »  
  • Jenny Lind
    Posted on January 31, 2012 at 7:09pm

    As much as this makes me happy, It is still going to get worse before it gets better. We have a long road ahead, so we need to put our spiritual armor on, and prpare for battle.

    Report Post »  
    • RCScrolls
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 8:15pm

      Please tell me how do I put on the Armor of God, just tell me please.
      Is it a one time thing or what? No bodys ever told me how, I really want to know.

      Report Post » RCScrolls  
    • Lord_Frostwind
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 8:30pm

      New Testament, Book of Ephesians, Chapter 6, verses 11-18. In essence the Armor of God is referring to preparations you make in life to protect yourself from sin. Prayer, studying the scriptures, guarding your thoughts, these are all elements of the Armor of God. You should really study the verses yourself to find what you need to do in your life to gain that protection.

      Report Post » Lord_Frostwind  
    • From Virginia
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 8:32pm

      @RCSCROLLS: This is the armour of God:
      The Belt of Truth
      The Breastplate of Righteousness
      The Gospel of Peace
      The Shield of Faith
      The Helmet of Salvation
      The Sword of the Spirit

      Report Post »  
    • GIDEON612
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 8:37pm

      First off you must be a disciple of Jesus Christ. Address God for who He Is. Confess your sins and ask Him for forgiveness and ask Him to send His Holy Spirit to teach and guide you. Do this every time you pick a Bible up.
      The Armor of God is in Ephesians 6:10-18 and you must put this on daily.

      Report Post » GIDEON612  
    • Newby101
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 8:40pm

      I sometimes like to pray these verses such as “I put on the helmet of salvation, Lord protect my mind, purify my thoughts, and help my mind to be stayed on you.” You’ll find yourself expanding your prayers concerning this equipment. Of course it’s good to memorize or use scripture as it is your sword.
      God Bless

      Report Post »  
    • PAINESMAN
      Posted on February 1, 2012 at 1:50am

      To rcscrolls or was it trolls.
      The armor we refer to is forged in our hearts . It is comprised of the elements Faith, Love, and Fearlessness. It is coated with Charity, Compassion and Prudence . It is designed to repel evil and those who spread it.
      Thanks for askin.

      Report Post »  
    • GiveUsJustice
      Posted on February 1, 2012 at 11:27am

      Quote what you want to. He/she/it is a troll and nothing more. He’ll be judged one day and will realize at that point, his life and all his “freedom from religion” was a mistake.

      But keep making fun of it scrolls! Good for you! You win!

      Report Post » GiveUsJustice  
    • jonsnowthewall
      Posted on February 18, 2012 at 2:30pm

      I think the starving babies in Africa totally rock out the Armor of God.

      Report Post »  
    • jonsnowthewall
      Posted on February 18, 2012 at 2:42pm

      GiveUsJustice: “Quote what you want to. He/she/it is a troll and nothing more. He’ll be judged one day and will realize at that point, his life and all his “freedom from religion” was a mistake.”

      He won’t be judged. Actually, he will have lived a full life, one of love, hardship, pain, freedom, and joy. A FULL life I say, not one of slavery to whatever deity you have chosen or had the privilege of being born into.

      He will die free, you, a slave to the one of thousands of ‘gods’ out there.

      Report Post »  
  • the wireworker
    Posted on January 31, 2012 at 7:09pm

    keep fighting the good fight jay sekulow.

    Report Post » the wireworker  
  • LISTENINGVERYCLOSELY
    Posted on January 31, 2012 at 7:03pm

    Why do the atheists get so upset, they need to get upset over our country going down the drain. Can I file a petition to stop the Muslims in New York Blocking traffic so they can pray, while they hold up traffic. Hey atheists that is what you should object to. People have to wait while they pray and then the road is open to traffic.l could not believe the news when I saw it, rush hour traffic stopped for these people to pray, the statue on the mountain isn’t trouble anyone and the atheists need to protest these people tying up traffic, and holding the population up. bet they wont. they do things that are petty and in their small minds, they are doing something great, trying to remove a statue, to them I say: Your life sucks it seems, please shut up and keep quiet, This beautiful country was founded UNDER GOD, If you all do not like this, there are airports and seaports, where you can leave.

    Report Post »  
    • palerider54
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 7:12pm

      If a ********** stopped in the road to pray in front of me, he would be in need of much prayer.

      Report Post »  
    • kentuckypatriot
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 10:48pm

      Very good point. I have never been to NYC, don’t ever plan on it, so I didn’ tknow the muslims were holding up traffic. If what you say is true, and I am not doubting you in the least, perhaps a letter to the atheist foundation or whatever it is in WI is in order!!

      Report Post » kentuckypatriot  
    • Andi Soucy
      Posted on February 1, 2012 at 1:24am

      Gee, I had always been told there are no atheists in foxholes! There are also none in public school classrooms during final exams or SAT’s! What say we give the atheists a chance to spend some time in foxholes in Afghanistan or any other hot spot and then let us hear from them at the end of their tour of duty. AND, didn’t they say it was in memory of CATHOLIC soldiers from their area? Why not let them put an atheist statue elswhere on the mountain–although I can’t imagine what it might look like–maybe a mirror reflecting their sense of self-importance.

      The earth was also human free for most of its history–what do they propose to do with people on the mountain?

      Report Post »  
  • mountainmover101
    Posted on January 31, 2012 at 6:57pm

    There is an old saying…..”there are no atheists in foxholes or emergency rooms.”

    Report Post »  
    • wvernon1981
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 7:00pm

      Saying something doesn’t make it true.

      Report Post »  
    • Danthebugman
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 8:21pm

      Yo Vernon1981……………shut up idiot! Your responses speak of your upbringing. Go clean your doublewide!

      Report Post » Danthebugman  
    • morerightrudder
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 8:35pm

      wvernon.. Exactly! Just because you don‘t believe in something doesn’t mean it’s not true.

      Report Post »  
    • jonsnowthewall
      Posted on February 18, 2012 at 2:52pm

      “There is an old saying…..”there are no atheists in foxholes or emergency rooms.”

      Here is a webpage that lists all military atheists who are indeed in foxholes.
      http://www.militaryatheists.org/expaif.html

      And what are in emergency rooms are learned, educated doctors, not your particular brand of deity.

      @morerightrudder please go to my provided link and become less ignorant about the world you reside in.

      Report Post »  
  • ncstatemom3
    Posted on January 31, 2012 at 6:49pm

    There are lots of different groups like this that try to knock Christianity any time they get a chance. They have had tremendous success. Evil is a powerful thing. However, we know eventually things will turn. We know this because we have a pretty powerful supporter on our side and He will change all of it one day. We know who is going to have their way. We know what the end will be. We know sometimes it’s not gonna be easy. Thank you Lord for letting us believe.

    Report Post »  
    • wvernon1981
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 7:01pm

      Why hasn’t he changed it yet then? Seems like he could save a lot of souls if he did.

      Report Post »  
    • Leopold
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 7:44pm

      @VW

      If Jesus would have put an end to this by now, your chances of salvation would be over. I know you think it doesn’t mean anything and that it is not important, but it is. Your soul is in the balance. Better for you that Jesus gives you some extra time. Maybe you will see the light. Maybe not. Jesus knows the answer to that already. Please have an open mind. Check things out. There is no reason to be afraid. Jesus loves you. He will not harm you. And it does not matter to Him how bad your sins have been. You do not have to get “good” before He accepts you. Admit you are a sinner and in need of redemption. Ask Jesus into your heart and forgive you. There, it’s done. See, it is not as hard, as you might think.

      Report Post »  
    • AxelPhantom
      Posted on February 1, 2012 at 12:12am

      Wvrnon 1981,

      God does not take from you free will. Quite the contrary. Jesus cannot make you believe. You must chose Him willingly. That is your choice and yours alone.

      Report Post »  
  • Collbuzz
    Posted on January 31, 2012 at 6:48pm

    YAY!!!!!!! About time the pendulum starts swingin’ the other way!! PRAISE GOD!!!!!

    Report Post »  
  • ldaopines
    Posted on January 31, 2012 at 6:45pm

    We need to characterize atheism as a religion and sue when the government is forcing that religion on us. This is one victory, but we need to take back our schools and Christmas.

    Report Post »  
    • mcgrawactor1
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 7:04pm

      @LDAOpines~Rock On!! You are so right when you say atheism or secularism is a RELIGION. It is as dear a faith as any traditional “religion”. It defines their values and motivates everything they do. When will we as communities of believers (whether it be Judiasm, Christianity, Musliims, Hindus, Buddhists, Scientologists….whomever)~~when will we start suing over OUR RELIGIOUS rights being violated? HOLY COW!! I am so sick of minority rule, and the squeaky wheel getting the grease.

      Report Post » mcgrawactor1  
    • Pontiac
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 7:30pm

      [characterize atheism as a religion and sue when the government is forcing that religion on us. ]
      This is the stupidest thing…no wait, I‘ve heard equally dumb things but I’ll bite.

      1. The government isn’t telling you not to believe in god.
      2. The absence of government led prayer & religious trinkets is not the endorsement of atheism.
      If it was your desk, keyboard, telephone, the dirt in your yard, the mountains, & the sky would all be endorsements of atheism for not being filled with your petty little reminders to believe in god seeing as you’re so quick to forget. My goodness who knows what wrongs you morally challenged simpletons might commit if you don‘t see 200 crucifix’s a day…

      Report Post » Pontiac  
    • Leopold
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 7:51pm

      ATHEISM – IS – A – RELIGION. = It has all the elements of it.

      FAITH = in their case in themselves.

      RIGHTEOUSNESS = in their case believing what THEY say is right instead of what God says is right.

      WISDOM = in their case it is ARROGANCE.

      BELIEVE = in their case – in there is no God.

      BOOKS = in their case about humanism instead of the BIBLE about God.

      WORSHIP = in their case of each other and self.

      CHURCHES = in their case schools, colleges and universities.

      PUNISHMENT = in their case of the innocent.

      Report Post »  
    • wzanesdad
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 8:16pm

      pines…I agree, and this is a great start. woooooooo hooooooo !!!!!!

      Report Post » wzanesdad  
    • From Virginia
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 8:22pm

      The supreme court has already ruled that atheism is a religion. Also, that atheist group has filed a lawsuit against the flower companies that refused to deliver flowers to that atheist girl under religious discrimination.

      It’s a religion. It even has a name – Secular Humanism.

      Report Post »  
    • Bad_Ashe
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 9:03pm

      @PONTIAC

      I agree that its a stupid idea to petition the government to have atheism declared a religion. With their temples, humanist doctrines, and petitioning of the chaplaincy, atheists will get there on their own soon enough. I also agree that its probably not the stupidest thing you’ve ever read, as you surely read your own posts.

      1. Nope. But atheists want religion removed from the public square, which is antithetical to the dominant culture. To do this, they utilize excessive litigation to commit “lawfare” against underfunded school districts, small towns, etc. The government becomes their unwitting ally via inaction. Again, non-establishment and non-endorsement do not equate to banishment, but the majority of these cases don’t see a courtroom because the defendants are cash-strapped and wilt like flowers.

      2. Nope, but see above. Additionally, the removal of pre-existing iconography is more often than not caused by financial surrender to atheist legal attacks, even if from a single, solitary atheist in another state who should ideally have little say in the community standard of a town halfway across the country.

      As for the rest of your post, this is just petty, immature, religion-baiting of the type I’ve seen you post all to often. Stop being such a massive Delta Bravo.

      Finally, I’d love to know your definition of morally-challenged? What is moral? By what standard do you derive moral? I feel a logically devoid response coming on.

      Report Post » Bad_Ashe  
    • StonyBurk
      Posted on February 1, 2012 at 9:04am

      Inquiring minds want to know– did the group who filed this legal action and attempted bully the Forrest Service to deny “conditional use” –will they be required by LBJ’s Law to pay all the legal fees and any penalty for their waste of everybodys time?

      Report Post »  
  • RebelYell1862
    Posted on January 31, 2012 at 6:43pm

    Someone had better keep an eye on it, the atheist‘s are pissed and if they can’t have their way, they’ll vandalize it. That’s how this trash works.

    Report Post » RebelYell1862  
    • Rational Man
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 6:51pm

      You beat me to it………………..

      Report Post » Rational Man  
    • From Virginia
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 8:28pm

      Yep – they lost in California on that WWI cross (after three voter referendums) so they STOLE it and the courts have forbidden it be replaced. The protection was regarding only THAT cross. They believe in the process so long as it serves their purpose.

      Report Post »  
    • Viin
      Posted on February 18, 2012 at 1:50pm

      Why would we vandalize it? All we wanted it was removed from government property….

      Report Post »  
  • Lesbian Packing Hollow Points
    Posted on January 31, 2012 at 6:41pm

    Let me get this straight… The FRFF is taking the NFS to court over the issue. The NFS makes a bureaucratic decision… and that’s that? No, no, no. Nothing has been won. Nothing has been lost. The court case marches forward.

    Call me when there’s a court decision to debate.

    Report Post » Lesbian Packing Hollow Points  
    • Pontiac
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 7:18pm

      @LPHP
      Right you are.

      “The KOC installed the statue as a memorial to local veterans of World War II.”
      I’d like to know how it memorializes local WWII vets considering there is no plaque with names & no mention of the war on or around it [that I know of]. All I see is a tasteless humanoid blob of cement with paint gobbed on it obstructing the view of “Gods creation” around it. This religious propaganda piece is IMO more of an insult to veterans than a memorial.

      Pontiac  
    • From Virginia
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 8:36pm

      Aw quit lying. YOu are only interested in court cases if you win. If you lose you WILL destroy it. It is how your kind works. We have seen it time and again. WE are expected to abide by court decisions but your people are marvelously exempt form those same courts.

      Report Post »  
    • shock and awe
      Posted on February 1, 2012 at 7:49am

      Here is the relationship of the statue to WWII Veterans:
      The 10th Mountain Division was trained for soldiering on skis. They were deployed in WWII in the European Theater where they proved themselves to be a vital specialty skills force and pioneers in that specialty for our side. After the war several of their ranks continued their love of skiing by helping to establish the Ski Patrol and many new recreational ski areas including this one on Big Mountain. The statue of Jesus was specifically thought of as a commemoration because the 10th Mountain Division Veterans recalled so many other statues of Jesus on mountaintops in their European deployment.

      Report Post » shock and awe  
    • Lesbian Packing Hollow Points
      Posted on February 1, 2012 at 9:16am

      @ Shock and Awe:
      And no little bronze plaque on the pediment explaining that?

      To be honest, this thing reminds me of the “Buddy Christ”.

      http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e316/flyspeckjones/Funny/Buddy_Christ.jpg

      Report Post » Lesbian Packing Hollow Points  
  • marion
    Posted on January 31, 2012 at 6:28pm

    Why do atheists have such a problem with others believing in something they don’t?

    Ever notice how brutally depressed atheists are? Very sad.

    Besides, a display is not advocation of the only religion available. Remember, the separation rule is, the state/country cannot say only one specific religion will be followed by all people and no other. Like so many other things, one has to put up with other’s rights, not prevent another person from having their rights, I just can’t be forced to be a part of it, which goes both ways ateists.

    Report Post »  
    • sonseeker
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 6:58pm

      Actually the state CAN say, it is the federal congress that cannot say.

      Report Post » sonseeker  
    • wvernon1981
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 7:02pm

      I‘m an atheist and I’m not depressed. I know dozens of atheists and they’re not depressed.

      Report Post »  
    • encinom
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 7:05pm

      A Statue of Christ on FEDERAL LAND is the issue, I could give a rat’s behind what you believe, just keep the government out of it. This is not a war memorial, the Statute of Christ does not belong on FEDERAL LAND but in a church.

      Report Post »  
    • thejackal
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 7:11pm

      They get offended when they see a middle aged bearded man in robes, or a woman in robes holding a baby. It’s bizzarre really, I don’t get it. If you don’t like it, don’t look at it.

      Report Post » thejackal  
    • Therightsofbilly
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 7:29pm

      @WVERNON

      You may not be depressed, but after reading a bunch of your posts, you sure sound the typical “angry” atheist to me.

      Ya know, since you guys don’t believe in something better after this life, you should really stop wasting so much of your precious time trying to convince the rest of us that you are right.

      That does not seem to be a logical way to spend what little time you have. For people that seem to revel in their “logic”, that is.

      Unless of course the posters original comment was indeed correct, and you ARE depressed.

      LOL

      Report Post » Therightsofbilly  
    • Therightsofbilly
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 7:35pm

      @ENCINOM

      What if a private citizen were able to purchase the 3 foot by 3 foot parcel of land that the statue stands on.

      A small Island of private property in the middle of a sea of “Federal Land”, with a statue of Christ on it.

      How would feel about that?

      Be honest now.

      Report Post » Therightsofbilly  
    • Leopold
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 8:05pm

      It is the weakness of atheists. They cannot handle looking at a religious symbol. They get mentally ill, that is

      why they sue everybody. I’m not sure if they also get very bad headaches or stomachaches. Maybe even

      the chills. We should have pity on them. Jesus did, He even said: “Father forgive them for they know not

      what they are doing”. See, it is like I have said numerous times. The brain does not fully function until one

      knows the giver of Truth, Jesus Christ. Let’s hope that many will find Him before it is to late.

      Report Post »  
    • Therightsofbilly
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 8:08pm

      Sorry,

      How would YOU feel about that?

      Report Post » Therightsofbilly  
    • Leopold
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 8:10pm

      @ ENCINOM

      A Statue of Christ on FEDERAL LAND is the issue, I could give a rat’s behind what you believe, just keep the government out of it. This is not a war memorial, the Statute of Christ does not belong on FEDERAL LAND but in a church.
      //////////////////////////////////////////

      Oh the horror of it. How will you function now with this in your face. Lighten up man!

      Report Post »  
    • encinom
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 8:19pm

      @Leopold

      Blatant infringments of the 1st Amendments do offend me.

      Report Post »  
    • Therightsofbilly
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 10:30pm

      ENCINOM??????????

      What say you?
      What if that statue were standing on one square yard of private property?
      Would that offend you?

      Report Post » Therightsofbilly  
    • misteryuck
      Posted on February 1, 2012 at 7:51am

      To ENCINOM:
      This may be an exercise in futility, but here goes…
      Want to explain how this statue (graven image, yes another topic) goes against the first amendment which Obama admits is a limit on Governement, not the citizens?
      I will post it here in case anyone has forgotten what the first amendent actually says.
      Amendment I: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

      What LAW did CONGRESS make that respects AN establisment of religion here? What establisment of religion was respected here? How does the United States Congress fit into this whole scenario? If anything, removing this statue would fall under the free exercising of this religion….

      Report Post » misteryuck  
  • BOMUSTGO
    Posted on January 31, 2012 at 6:27pm

    Hey Atheists, go to Rio de Janeiro and protest!!

    Report Post » BOMUSTGO  
    • Viin
      Posted on February 18, 2012 at 1:53pm

      We are the atheists in America. That is in Brazil.

      Report Post »  
  • islamhater
    Posted on January 31, 2012 at 6:25pm

    They should have not been able to sue in the first place.

    Report Post »  
  • maroon67
    Posted on January 31, 2012 at 5:58pm

    Thank you God The Father!

    http://www.thewarningsecondcoming.com/hear-my-urgent-plea-to-pray-for-the-souls-of-atheists/

    Report Post » maroon67  
  • Exrepublisheep
    Posted on January 31, 2012 at 5:54pm

    Don’t worship idols, or anything made by man. That said, it’s always a good thing when athiests lose.

    Report Post » Exrepublisheep  
    • TEXASGRANNY73
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 6:03pm

      Thank you Jay Sekulow and ACLJ. @EXRep. Worship idols? A memorial? Will these atheists want to remove religious signs from tombstones of vets such as Arlington next? Or is that worshiping idols, puh lease!

      Report Post »  
    • Mateytwo Barreett
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 7:39pm

      @Texasgranny
      already in the works. . .

      Report Post » Mateytwo Barreett  
  • M13
    Posted on January 31, 2012 at 5:44pm

    How long before it’s torn down in an act of vandelism by one of atheists?

    Report Post »  
    • I am 'We the People
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 6:13pm

      Exactly, that is the tactic of the left, try and legally bully your way, if that doesn’t work then take matters into your own hands.

      Report Post » I am 'We the People  
    • RJJinGadsden
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 6:28pm

      My first thought exactly. I would venture to say that well after the snow is gone a couple of sledge hammer toting left wing loons will make their first attempt. Makes for less obvious tracks and an easier get away.

      Report Post » RJJinGadsden  
  • LOJ
    Posted on January 31, 2012 at 5:33pm

    Wonderful!!! Our Lord reigns supreme, he is above all on this earth, and he will prove it!

    Report Post »  
  • 65Mustang
    Posted on January 31, 2012 at 5:30pm

    Thank you God, the atheist will one day bow before God before they enter HELL.

    Report Post »  
    • TEXASGRANNY73
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 6:05pm

      Are you now judge and jury? Wow.

      Report Post »  
    • Gary S
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 6:20pm

      no; God is.

      Report Post »  
    • DeavonReye
      Posted on February 1, 2012 at 11:37am

      You are a VILE and IMMORAL person by THANKING your pet deity for torturing people for all eternity. You’re no different than a mass murderer, like your god is.

      YOU are why atheists have come up against you. Your ghastly condition is abhorent. }:-(

      Report Post » DeavonReye  
  • spirited
    Posted on January 31, 2012 at 5:23pm

    Atheist Annie,
    Here’s a way to overcome the outrage over Jesus.

    Since pretending to ‘know’ reality, fairness, inclusion and truth, think of this religious symbol as a

    >mountain climber.

    Report Post » spirited  
  • LeadNotFollow
    Posted on January 31, 2012 at 5:23pm

    …
    GREAT !!!
    If Christians stick together, we can defeat evil.
    Onward Christian Soldiers.

    Report Post »  
  • randy
    Posted on January 31, 2012 at 5:19pm

    Amen!

    Report Post » randy  
  • MittensKittens
    Posted on January 31, 2012 at 5:19pm

    you think that’s bad, just wait til the atheists go to he!!

    Report Post » MittensKittens  
    • AvengerK
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 5:24pm

      I’m curious…what would atheists prefer as a “neutral” replacement symbol for the peace and comfort that Jesus instantly and recognizably represents? A cinderblock? A chimp? Charles Darwin? an iPod?, Barack Obama? a piece of solar panel? Doggie Doo? Anyone? Beuller?

      Report Post »  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 5:53pm

      How about no religious symbols at all?

      I‘m sure Jesus wouldn’t represent peace to the people who were murdered by Christians in the past.

      Just like I‘m sure a symbol of Muhammad wouldn’t represent peace to people murdered by extremists.

      What happened to Christians not worshiping idols?

      Report Post »  
    • TEXASGRANNY73
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 6:18pm

      God will decide when He seperates the wheat from the chaff. Meanwhile, some may change. Quit casting people into hell. That is not your job. @Moderationis best: How about a memorial is not worshipping an idol. How about the 10 commandments is not an idol? Moses slew people because they worshipped golden idols.

      Report Post »  
    • Therightsofbilly
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 6:23pm

      @MOD

      Warn your neighbors, hide the kids, it’s coming.

      LOL…….HAHAHAHA

      Report Post » Therightsofbilly  
    • the wireworker
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 7:17pm

      to moderation

      a statue is a statue, a toaster oven is a toaster oven both can be idols but they could still be just a statue and a toaster oven or a statue of a toaster oven.

      to some people knowledge and science is an idol and they worship at the feet of thinking they are always right.

      Report Post » the wireworker  
    • Bad_Ashe
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 8:27pm

      @MODERATIONISBEST – You really are desperately bad at this. It seems that in addition to not understanding the essential difference between an idol and an icon, as well as the ritualistic aspect that separates the former from the latter, you also appear to be unaware of the Protestant view of this issue, as opposed to the Catholic views as developed by St. John of Damascus.

      Your post has inspired me, however. Why should we have any symbols that reflect our dominant culture at all? Much like your example of those killed by Christians or Muslims, no matter what form the symbol takes, someone out there is bound to be upset by it.

      The Washington Monument is surely a slap in the face to visiting Brits. How many British deaths was that guy responsible for? Surely enough to warrant razing that obelisk to the ground. What about Southerners? The Lincoln Memorial most certainly inspires bad blood, what with all the killing and burning during the Civil War.

      Finally, what about the statue of Rocky Balboa in Philly? Fictional character, sure — but what must the families of Apollo Creed, Thunderlips, Clubber Lang, Dolph Lundgren, Tommy Gunn, or Mason Dixon think of that salt in their make-believe wounds?

      I am now officially with the atheists, but am willing to commit where they are not. I seek not just to remove religion from the public square, but anything that holds any meaning at all. Thank you atheists for your inspiring words!

      Report Post » Bad_Ashe  
    • Bad_Ashe
      Posted on January 31, 2012 at 9:10pm

      Correction: Ivan Drago. It’s just that Dolph is that awesome. Seriously, look up the story about robbers in his house.

      Report Post » Bad_Ashe  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on February 1, 2012 at 2:01am

      @TEXASGRANNY73

      Glad you mentioned Moses killing people who worshiped idols. Who ordained that slaughter? That’s right, your all loving God.

      Enough said.

      My point was simple, if Jesus lives in your heart, how do public displays strengthen that? How does removal of those displays weaken it? I laugh at the thought of Jesus supporting Christians who get ticked off because they can’t have man made idols up of him.

      It’s the same reason I laugh at Muslims who get so ticked off at drawings of Muhammad that they actually want to kill people.

      Christianity was once just as bad as Islam, they just didn’t have 21st century weapons to prove how peaceful their religion is.

      How ironic the nation that is dominated by Christianity, is the only nation to use a nuclear weapon….and we used two. How Christlike of us.

      Report Post »  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on February 1, 2012 at 2:12am

      @Bad

      Ivan Drago was awesome, had some great lines lol.

      “I must break you.”

      “If he dies, he dies.”

      Glad you got on my side though, I agree, statues of made up people on public property is stupid and a waste of money.

      I don’t know where you are coming from when you talk about “visiting brits.” They aren’t part of our nation.

      My main point was a lot of people(not all) cry about religious freedom…..until someone else wants to express their religious beliefs.

      How many people were irate about the Mosque in New York? Bill O’ Reilly even made a bold claim of something along the lines of “No one will accept that job.” Well why would that be? Because they’re Muslim?

      How many people are terrified of Sharia Law, but then cheer when the Catholic church is exempt from discrimination laws?

      When you start accepting one religion in the public arena, you have to start accepting them all. If you’re fine with that, that’s cool, just don’t be hypocritical(I’m not saying you specifically are) when Muslims want to put up their religious beliefs on public property or someone wants a statue of Zeus put up.

      Look at the companies who protested that show “All American Muslim” because…..they were Muslim and that supposedly the show didn’t show the extreme side of Islam.

      How would Christianity like it if on a show about people who are Christians, someone demanded a boycott because they didn’t show the side of Christianity that openly degrade

      Report Post »  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on February 1, 2012 at 2:13am

      Openly degrades homosexuals or show abortion doctor killers?

      Report Post »  
    • Bad_Ashe
      Posted on February 1, 2012 at 2:45pm

      @MODERATIONISBEST (1)

      This is a long post, because I enjoy a bit of rhetorical flourish. Now allow me a moment to pull my tongue from my cheek.

      So long as taxpayers aren’t forced to pay for it, I’ve no problem with statues of fictional creations that have had a significant cultural impact, be it Rocky Balboa or Kermit the Frog. It’s simply an expression of the prevailing popular culture.

      I will admit that I chipped in a few bucks for that Robocop statue tentatively planned in Detroit. I mean, it’s Robocop for (INSERT DEITY YOU DON‘T BELIEVE IN’S) sake, how could you turn that down?

      You actually make a somewhat cogent point here regarding hypocrisy and inconsistency. That being said, you still have some issues of context, and you seemed to miss the salient points of my post to you.

      The comments about “visiting Brits”, Southerners, and Rocky’s rogues gallery were simply to illustrate the inherent problem with your previous post. Where is the line of demarcation when it comes to what icon is or is not offensive, and to whom? Why should the overwhelmingly prevalent culture bow down to a small minority who “might” be offended by something which by its very nature is not designed to offend?

      Why not just get rid of all symbolism or iconography? Someone, somewhere is bound to be offended by just about everything. When taken to its ultimate conclusion, this is essentially what you were advocating.

      Report Post » Bad_Ashe  
    • Bad_Ashe
      Posted on February 1, 2012 at 2:49pm

      @MODERATIONISBEST (2)

      Next, let’s address the missing context in your post.

      Very few people have a problem when a Mosque is going up in Columbus or Tucson or Dallas, or even the Bronx…but a block from the spot in which Islamic militants dropped the twin towers and killed over 2000 people? This is simply in bad taste, and when the prevailing culture cries foul, expect to see some fallout.

      This is a private property and public relations issue; no one’s rights are being violated here.

      I’m sure if Catholics had been responsible for 9/11, not only would they feel massively guilty about it (Catholic guilt shout-out!), but I’m sure the response would be just as chilly if they wanted to build a cathedral near that spot.

      Your Sharia Law comment is contextually devoid as well. Comparing an exemption for religious hiring practices is a far cry from allowing a religious group to eschew wholesale the American legal system so that they may elevate their set of laws above it. Catholics, Protestants, and even the Amish still by and large have to comply with the laws of the United States and the state they live in, and we should expect Muslims to do the same.

      I’ve no problem if a group wants to put up a statue of Zeus next to “Ski Action” Buddy Christ, assuming they actually practice the faith of the Ancient Greeks. Now let’s see if someone proposes such a thing. Strangely enough, I don’t see that happening.

      Report Post » Bad_Ashe  
    • Bad_Ashe
      Posted on February 1, 2012 at 2:57pm

      @MODERATIONISBEST (3)

      One of the insurmountable problems the atheist has when they scream “separation of church and state” is that there are so many cultural violations of this, it’s like playing a game of Whack-A-Mole. From our currency to our pledge to the headstones at Arlington. Christianity has been ingrained in American culture from the beginning.

      The founding fathers simply sought to avoid the establishment of a government-led church a la Britain, or religious persecution via supporting one faith over another. Religious belief was still very much a part of government, and we still see examples today. The government WILL ALWAYS reflect the dominant culture, it’s just that simple.

      The atheists know this, so in order to get their way they resort to “lawfare” against governmental bodies who don’t have the money to defend themselves in court. I’m still waiting for the day some atheist has the brass nuggets to sue for the removal of crosses at Arlington. That’ll be fun for them.

      Last but not least, the “side” of Christianity that openly degrades homosexuality or abortion doctors is shown ALL THE TIME. You have seen the Christian character from (choose Hollywood movie or TV show at random), haven’t you?

      Report Post » Bad_Ashe  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on February 2, 2012 at 1:08am

      @Bad

      I would first like to clarify my original post. When typing, I didn’t really separate my arguments very well.

      My main tenant was that I didn’t want any religious symbols at all, I then went on talking about what AVENGERK said “I’m curious…what would atheists prefer as a “neutral” replacement symbol for the peace and comfort that Jesus instantly and recognizably represents?“ I was simply pointing out the posters assumption that all people view as statue of Jesus as ”peaceful” but did a bad job of separating my arguments.

      I personally don’t get offended by religious symbols, especially if they’re on personal property, I encourage them. I just worry about religion infringing in our public arena and blurring the line between “freedom of religion” to “Government enforcing religion.”

      I agree the Mosque is in bad taste, but last I saw there are no laws against bad taste. And to add onto your point, the Catholic church has a lot to be guilty about yet they still continue their teachings(lying to Africa about condoms, saying aids is bad, but condoms are worse) etc.

      Report Post »  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on February 2, 2012 at 1:19am

      Is your argument, “Christianity has already infringed on our Government, so why bother changing it?”

      Glenn always talked about progressives and “nudging.“ Well sadly it works both ways in that ”In God We Trust” becoming our OFFICIAL motto in the 50s, as well as “In God We Trust” on our money and in our pledge.

      I’m in my late 20s, and always just assumed they were part of our culture and society for generations…..not 62 years. So, much like progressives, religions just keep nudging and nudging and nudging, until society eventually just accepts that it was always like that.

      You then have people voting and passing laws based on a Biblical belief and have Presidents talking about consulting scripture and prayer to create public policy. You even have a President talking about civil law comporting with a “higher law.“ Which ”higher law” is Santorum talking about? The Christian law? If so, why Christianity? Because it’s the “dominant culture?”

      I think you missed my point on the very last example, but I’m not sure.

      I‘m not saying that those elements aren’t shown. What I’m saying is, much like the Muslim show where they show moderate Muslims living their life on a daily basis just like me or you. A group then organized a boycott of advertisers because the show left out the extreme side of radical Muslims. It would be me organizing a boycott because Touch Like An Angel didn’t have a homophobic grandparent.

      Report Post »  
    • Bad_Ashe
      Posted on February 2, 2012 at 4:53pm

      @MODERATIONISBEST (2) — The Catholic guilt comment was clearly a joke, as it is an old standby that Catholics feel guilty about everything. You may not have gotten the joke, but surely any Catholic out there reading it probably had a snicker or two. As for your comment about Catholic teachings, I have to call you out on the comment, if not for the subject matter.

      Catholic teaching about condoms or AIDS has NOTHING to do with our current conversation. Zero. What is it that compels the atheist to spew religion-baiting venom that is often only tangentially-related to the topic at hand? Its like some sort of immature compulsion with atheists, almost akin to a social disorder.

      Finally (and this is the last I’ll indulge in this non-sequitur), which do you think is MORE likely to spread AIDS, the advocacy of free sex with condoms, or the Catholic position of chastity until marriage?

      You whiffed my argument regarding the “separation of church and state”. It is not a matter that Christianity has already infringed on government, it is that Christianity was never truly removed from it, nor was it meant to be…at least not in the way atheists so desire.

      This modern idea of separation hinges on a Supreme Court decision in 1947. All other decisions in this regard have simply expanded the reach of that original decision, though enforcement of this has been selective, and the decision has NOT been held up in many cases as well. It’s track record is spotty at best.

      Report Post » Bad_Ashe  
    • Bad_Ashe
      Posted on February 2, 2012 at 4:55pm

      @MODERATIONISBEST (3)

      The decision mentioned in the above post was the first to speak of a “wall” between church and state, inspired by a Jefferson letter written 13 years after the Constitutional amendment, amendments that Jefferson had nothing to do with. That an allegory written by Jefferson 13 years after the fact should seriously be used as an authoritative declaration in regards to the establishment clause just goes to show how absurd this SC decision truly was.

      In the 1700s, an “establishment of religion” referred to pre-revolutionary America “establishment” churches. Officially government-sanctioned and financed churches where people were forced to attend, to give donation, etc. When the first amendment speaks of “respecting an establishment of religion”, this is the intent.

      If the establishment clause was intended to mean that religious iconography couldn’t be displayed on government property, or a governmental meeting couldn’t begin with a prayer, then the founding fathers were nothing more than hypocrites. These men prayed before every congress, the majority of them mention God with nearly every breath, they allowed religious symbols in and on government property. Even today this persists…as I mentioned in my last post, our currency, our pledge, inscriptions in our government buildings, crosses at our military cemeteries, the list goes on and on, both regarding instance only 60 years old, and others over 200 years old.

      Report Post » Bad_Ashe  
    • Bad_Ashe
      Posted on February 2, 2012 at 5:02pm

      @MODERATIONISBEST (4)

      Think about this. Where is the logical coherence in the idea Knights of Columbus can (constitutionally speaking) put up a sign proclaiming the greatness of Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin (those grand atheist leaders responsible for the murder of millions), but they can’t put up a statue of Buddy Jesus?

      Does this seem like a reasonable interpretation to you? Do we truly believe that the founding fathers wouldn’t allow The Ten Commandments onto government property, but would allow a plaque honoring King George III?

      This is a simple matter of historical observation. I’m in my early 30s, and I know this. There is no “nudging”, just ebbs and flows of something that already existed within the government. The American government has never approached or even flirted being a theocracy; this is an atheist boogeyman.

      People should be allowed to vote however they want. You live in a predominantly Christian culture, so why is it so shocking that the leadership in this country reflects that, or that presidents pray or consult scripture when making decisions or crafting public policy? Atheists can attempt to completely separate government from the religion of the dominant culture (a fool’s errand), but they can’t remove it from the cultural milieu in which our voting populace and or candidates have been reared.

      Of all your arguments this may be the most hollow. It’s almost Sam Harris-ian in its fallacious reasoning.

      Report Post » Bad_Ashe  
    • Bad_Ashe
      Posted on February 2, 2012 at 5:04pm

      @MODERATIONISBEST (5)

      So given the obvious context outlined above, yes…Rick Santorum is talking about a Christian higher authority. Why a Christian authority? Because our country was largely founded by Christians who believed that people are endowed by their Creator (notice the capitalization in the DoE), was inspired (in part) by Christian thought, and our culture is predominantly Christian.

      This is the same culture in which you enjoy your freedom to reject the basis of that culture. Imagine if you lived in a Muslim culture…they’re so kind to atheists, after all.

      Quite frankly, you should get on your knees and thank the God you don’t believe in that Christianity is still a dominant force in this country. Look at the UK, where European progressivism has largely succeeded in moving Christianity out of the public square. Has this led to some shiny, secular state? Certainly not.

      Even Richard Dawkins, the king of all atheist stupidity, has come out and admitted that perhaps Christianity was a bulwark against something truly dangerous.

      As for your last example — yeah I got it, I just didn’t think it was worth the effort to debate, so I went with snark, and an bit of a tweak regarding how Christianity is by and large portrayed by Hollywood as something awful.

      It appears that this has posted out of order, so I will attempt to re-post part 1. Be seeing you.

      Report Post » Bad_Ashe  
  • neverending
    Posted on January 31, 2012 at 5:16pm

    All I can say is thank you dear Heavenly Father!

    Report Post »  
  • 13axes
    Posted on January 31, 2012 at 5:14pm

    America 1 Obama 0

    Report Post » 13axes  
  • uglytoytruck
    Posted on January 31, 2012 at 5:11pm

    whoohoo

    Report Post »  
  • DeavonReye
    Posted on February 1, 2012 at 12:52pm

    I don’t see anything wrong with satin. Not my favorite, but certainly an okay thing.

    Report Post » DeavonReye  
  • jonsnowthewall
    Posted on February 18, 2012 at 3:38pm

    You can wash satin, right? Or do you have to dry clean?

    Report Post »  
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