ACLU Sues to Remove 10 Commandments Display From NM Courthouse Lawn
- Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:13am by
Billy Hallowell
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It isn’t uncommon for religious displays to serve as primary targets for atheists and church-state separatist groups. Case in point: last week, the American Civil Liberties Union New Mexico (ACLU) filed a lawsuit on behalf of Jane Felix and B.N. Coone, residents who are offended by the presence of a Ten Commandments display that is on the front lawn of the Bloomfield, New Mexico City Hall.
(Related: Atheists Demand NC Town Remove Ten Commandments From Town Hall)
The residents who oppose the display, which was privately donated to the government and placed on the lawn back in July 2011, believe that it is a violation of the separation of church and state. In the filing with the U.S. District Court of New Mexico, the ACLU called the display “an excessive government entanglement with religion” and ordered the monument to be “immediately removed from the real property owned by the City of Bloomfield, New Mexico.” You can read the full complaint here.
Below, watch a portion of the monument’s July 4, 2011 dedication ceremony:
Here’s more of the religiously-themed celebration surrounding the display last summer:
ACLU of New Mexico Executive Director Peter Simonson says that he and his organization have no opposition to private citizens and organizations posting the Ten Commandments. But he contends that the government’s endorsement (i.e. the location) of the religious monument is unacceptable.
“Individuals, religious communities, and religious associations should be free to post the Ten Commandments as they wish, and the ACLU will defend their right to do so,” Simonson said. ”But the government should not decide which religious doctrines it favors and then post them on government property.”
“In putting up those religious beliefs, the government sends a signal, the city of Bloomfield sends a signal that those are the ones it favors and disregards all others,” he also said in an interview with KRQE-TV.
©jorndorf/roughshelter.com
Dr. Billy McCormack, though, who serves on the Christian Coalition of America board of directors told The Christian Post that the ACLU lawsuit was merely another example of the organization’s “continuation of its crusade against Christianity and its place in American society.”
That being said, McCormack has little confidence that the courts will agree with Bloomfield, as he believes many judges have “a bias against Judeo-Christian religion.”
The Ten Commandments have a complicated history in the U.S., as some courts have allowed displays while others have demanded they be removed. Some cases, however, have led to compromises (atheist groups have been able to post their monuments next to the displays).
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Comments (214)
CLG 4
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 9:13amWell I see we have yet another case where someone was so moved by the words that were read they started to doubt what they belive. Whats the answer, find a liberal judge to skew the meaning of the constitution and have the words removed. Remember vote democrat (socialist) early and often. The faster we destroy the values this country was founded on the better off socialism will be.
Report Post »The_Jerk
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 9:45amSusan N. Herman, Nadine Strossen, Steven Shapiro, Geri E. Rozanski, Michael German… why go on? All Jewish.
Look it up yourself. This is as old as antiquity. The attack on Christianity has a very Jewish flavor. A minority must use the courts for change, and the Jewish minority is way over-represented in the courts. Clearly, they constitute 33% of the Supreme Court and 1.7% of the population.
Rabbi Lapin was not incorrect when he wrote that the leadership of the ACLU is reminiscent of a temple board meeting. Call a spade, a spade. Unless you correctly identify the source and place public pressure on that source, by identifying that source, nothing will change.
turkey13
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 10:02am“A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have.” Thomas Jefferson
I think Jefferson forsaw a president coming along to spread the wealth. This is why I taught my 3 sons to be leaders and not followers. As a result they have their own construction company. There biggest problem is that our government keeps extending unemployment and no one wants to work. In Oklahoma unemployment droped to 4.8% last month. These are the folks that are happy to get a monthly check and go fishing or go partying.
Chuck Stein
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 10:29amThere needs to be a change in the law as regards awards of attorneys fees for civil rights cases. I suggest the following: where the claimed wrong is in the nature of an expression of religious belief and where the claimed injury is in the form of “offence” to a person’s feelings, then the loser pays for the attorneys fees of the prevailing party — and the standard for such award is equally applied to defendants and to plaintiffs.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 10:45amDefinition of a “Blazer”:
Report Post »1) Someone who frequents the website “The Blaze”
2) Someone highly likely to reference Hitler and the Nazis when talking about those who disagree with them, but highly unlikely to call someone on their blatant anti-semitism if that person happens to be a conservative.
tzion
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 10:59am@JERK
Report Post »In my history textbooks it’s usually the Christians persecuting the Jews. I see pogroms, blood libels, disputations, and inquisitions, not to mention blaming the Jews for spreading bubonic plague. Did Jews ever slaughter a Christian village or burn down a church? Was it not Martin Luther who spoke of burning synagogues and Jewish books and slaughtering all the Jews? Here’s a few topic for you to research: Chmielnicki Massacre, Pale of Settlement, disputations.
KAdams
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:06amNot you again…. not the ‘oy gewalt’ … wallow more, Zion.
Report Post »KAdams
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:07amTzion: Research Bolshevik revolution. But it won’t matter, will it? We’re all just goyim to you. Less than beasts, right?
Report Post »financiallyfreeb430
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:09am@ Chuck Stein- I had this same conversation with my brother yesterday…I couldnt agree more!!
Report Post »tzion
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:36am@KAdams
Report Post »Yes let’s only look at history from the past century or so. What about the past 1000 years? Who was behind the blood libels? What you thought that after over a thousand years of living at the mercy of totalitarian rulers WOULDN’T cause some people to go radical (emphasis on the some)? Are you saying that over 1500 years of being denied basic rights and being persecuted is somehow justified because SOME Jews were Bolsheviks (as were many more Russians) after the fact? By that argument the Allies were right to punish Germany after WWI because they were guilty for committing the Holocaust?
colt1860
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:55amThese liberal lawsuits are nothing more than BS. The Washington Monument is an Obelisk, representative of the Egyptian culture and religion, and signified worshiping the Sun. The Columns which are so prominent in many Government buildings were those same ones used in Greek and Roman culture to uphold their Temples honoring their sky gods. The word Capitol has its origin in Roman religion and mythology wherein the planet Jupiter was honored and worshiped as the King of the gods, thus the main central point of a State. The District of Columbia’s streets and certain buildings are aligned with the stars in heaven to represent certain astrological signs. The statute on top of the Capitol building, and others in front of Government buildings, represent ancient deities honored by the ancient cultures. These liberals are a bunch of hypocrites and ARE OUT TO MOSTLY DESTROY CHRISTIANITY, plain and simple.
Report Post »beckwasfox
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:14pm@the Jerk-You need to back off on your hate. The Jewish people and by extension Israel have contributed far more to the world than any other civilization. I have presented rational arguments to you in the past but you ignore them. Stop the hate.
Report Post »beckwasfox
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:29pmI wish we could sue to remove the ACLU from all of our court houses.
Report Post »Wilbur Longshank
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 2:12pmThell the ACLU to go F themselfs and go read the constitution and understand it.
the seperation of church and state doesn‘t mean a courthouse can’t display the 10 Commandments.
that was set up so the gov’t would not set a state religion as it was over in england. that’s all.
these progressive liberals don’t understand what the clause means.
Report Post »banjarmon
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 2:16pmMake the foot print of the moment privet land that happens to be surrounded by public land….ACLU would have no case being it is on privet land!!!
Report Post »PALEHORSE
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 6:21pmWhy are “christians” condemning Jewish people. The “Commandments” are not from the New Testament, they come from the “Old Testament”. Quit professing your christian faith if you don’t even know anything religion of any kind.
Report Post »babylonvi
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 7:54pmHey, Jerk, the Ten Commandments Were delivered to Moses, NOT Jesus. How could you say 1. That the Jews are responsible for this(rather than misguided Progressives) and 2. That it is an attack in Christianity vs an attack in the Jews?
Report Post »babylonvi
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 7:57pmi suppose they will have to demolish the U.S. Supreme Court building as the Ten Commandments are all through THAT building.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 12:45amThomas Jefferson (1743-1826), third U.S. President, chosen to write the Declaration of Independence, said: “I have little doubt that the whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our Creator, and, I hope, to the pure doctrines of Jesus also.” He proclaimed that it was the God of the Bible who founded America in his 1805 inaugural address: “I shall need, too, the favor of that Being in whose hands we are, who led our forefathers, as Israel of old, from their native land and planted them in this country.”
Report Post »808Conservative
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 12:17pmThe American Communist League Union act‘s like a bunch of Nazi’s.
Report Post »1ClassicLiberal
Posted on February 18, 2012 at 2:19amPresently there is only one standard allowed when it comes to religion in America, that of the ordained Church of the United States of America, Secularism. The ACLU and the Atheists are the crusaders for the High Priests residing in the Judiciary. Because the American Secular Church is anti Judeo/Christian religion, they tolerate non-Christian religious movements and embrace Islam as the archenemy of Christianity. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. All these assaults on Christian symbolism as well as gay marriage and the recent assault on the Catholic Church through insurance mandates for contraception and abortion is the State Church flexing its muscle to define its authority over all social and moral aspects of life in America. What the Founders feared has come to pass with the creation of the State Church. Not through legislation or Constitutional amendment as they foresaw, but through adjudication. The noose on the neck of freedom and personal liberty tightens with each little PC victory.
Report Post »ZeroOff4impact
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 9:04amThe Failure of the Church and State as originally intended is most disturbing. Jefferson never intended this interpretation of his words. This is something that must be RESTORED to ORIGINAL .
Report Post »dmforman
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 9:26amThis is not an interpretation, but a twisting of words to have them mean what you want them to mean. The ACLU knows exactly what it is doing and it’s destroyed and continues to destroy the moral fiber of America.
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 10:09amThomas Jefferson was not a Christian, read your history. He knew exactly what he meant, and how to write it.
Report Post »Look, i have no problem with Christians, Jews, Islamist, or any other religion, but keep it to your heart, home, and church. Why do you feel the need to push Christain beliefs on all that might pass through the court house doors?
PubliusPencilman
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 10:41amSo, as I understand it, the stock Blazer interpretation of Jefferson’s phrase, “wall of separation between of church and state” is that it was meant to keep government out of religion rather than religion out of government, right?
This is assuming that Jefferson somehow thinks that walls only work “one way.” He was very explicit in his metaphor, yet the interpretation forwarded by the Blazers is so counterintuitive as to be downright insulting. So, I ask you, who is twisting Jefferson’s words?
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 2:58pm“So, as I understand it, the stock Blazer interpretation of Jefferson’s phrase, “wall of separation between of church and state” is that it was meant to keep government out of religion rather than religion out of government, right?:”
as compared to your stock interrpretation of having atheism as our state religion?
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 3:01pmJefferson was awesome.
While he thought that Jesus’s teachings were some of the most profound and moral teachings ever written, he disregarded the supernatural aspects of the New Testaments. So by today’s standards, he wouldn’t be considered a Christian.
“And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.” —Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823
Jefferson didn’t like talking about religion in public and usually refrained talking about it unless specifically asked. I’m learning more about him( first going through the autobiography of Franklin(also a guy who talked about trying to avoid the weekly church attendance), then will go through the Jefferson-Adams letters) and Jefferson strikes me as a very private man who wanted to be left alone and worship in his own way.
Christianity, much like progressivism(as Beck talks about) has done a great job at creating small changes over long periods of time(nudges), so we’ve gotten to the point where we have a candidate talking about comporting the civil laws with a higher law.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 3:11pm“Jefferson didn’t like talking about religion in public and usually refrained talking about it unless specifically asked”
you mean that guy who permitted church services in government buildings?
It is no exaggeration to say that on Sundays in Washington during the administrations of Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809) and of James Madison (1809-1817) the state became the church. Within a year of his inauguration, Jefferson began attending church services in the House of Representatives. Madison followed Jefferson’s example, although unlike Jefferson, who rode on horseback to church in the Capitol, Madison came in a coach and four.
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel06-2.html
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 4:57pm@RUSH_IS_RIGHT
You didn’t refute my point, you just said he went to church services. I didn’t say he was an atheist, or not religious at all, just that he didn‘t buy into the hype of Jesus’s supernatural claims and seemed more private about his faith then others.
Why are people so defensive when someone says, “not all of our founders were Christians”? That’s not an attack on Christianity, it is the truth.
Report Post »riverdog1
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:08pmget it off public land. this is real easy and backed by previous rulings on the constitution. come on people.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:35pmHey MOD,
Yes, he was Awesome doooooooood.
I see your new pet phrase is “comporting the civil laws with a higher law”
I can hardly wait for “cramming your beliefs down my throat by passing legislation” to make it’s return.
I miss that one.
Report Post »IMCHRISTIAN
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 9:02am“Thou shall have no other Gods before me” Do you suppose the aclu is jealous?
Report Post »Miyegombo Bayartsogt
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 9:40amActually, the godless, commie lawyers have a point when they claim these words represent the establishment of state religion. This problem can be fixed. It’s simple. We could change the wording a bit of the first four to read, “Thou shall have whatever gods thou sees fit . “Thou shall chose to covet many gods or few or just one or even none.“ and ”Thou shall call your gods myriad names or not believe as you see fit, as yours is the land of religious freedom and you have that god-given right.” A little wordy maybe, but an improvement over the original by miles.
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 10:12amWell, by your comment, I can see why Jews or any other would want the commandments to come down. By your word any other religion is false, so that in it’s self is enough reason to move it away from a govenment institution.
Report Post »You have made the ACLU’s argument for them. Christians have no understanding of another mans right ot believe in another God, or Phrophet.
Religious bigotry is as bad as racial bigotry.
AmericanBumpkin
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 10:59amboth answers are correct.
http://www.examiner.com/spiritual-in-atlanta/thomas-jefferson-non-christian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson#Religion
Jefferson was a Deist, but also a christian in the sense he believed in following the moral teaching of Jesus in order to aspire to be a better person. However, he and our forefathers refused to acknowledge any one faith when creating the constitution, in order to protect the rights of those who were not Christian, and ones that came to our country to get away from the oppression of their former homelands. The founding father‘s didn’t want the government to be able to dictate a religion to the people and force everyone to conform to something because “religion should be a personal relationship between a man(person) and god”. They also didn’t want the (Catholic) Church to be able to sway legislative proceedings or indoctrinate laws for the people to abide by.
Which is what the ACLU, the FFRF, and others i have gone through and found, are trying to reinforce the stance on neutrality within the government.
and by the way… this whole War on Religion crap in the media is a ploy to turn americans against each other and keep us busy….
Report Post »i got tired of being a sheep. i recommend reading more than one or two news sites because, frankly, all of them have an agenda.
lots o’ love to my fellow Americans.
macpappy
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:23am#mericanBumpki
Report Post »Ah, someone understands. I stand with you on that one.
girlnurse
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 3:06pmAMERICANBUMPKIN: Im starting to agree with you on this point:
Report Post »…“this whole War on Religion crap in the media is a ploy to turn americans against each other and keep us busy”
BubbaCoop
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 9:00amYeah, I can see how someone would be offended, being not not to steal or murder…perfectly logical.
Report Post »BubbaCoop
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 9:00am…being TOLD, that is
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 10:47amI think you forgot a few commandments there Bubba. You know, the ones that specifically refer to religious practices and not actual laws.
Report Post »Pontiac
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:00am[Yeah, I can see how someone would be offended, being not not to steal or murder]
Throughout history tribes, communities, & countries that never heard of the torah, the ten commandments, Moses, or Jesus have enacted laws against theft & murder. And throughout history people have feared physical punishment from those laws, not from some deity.
I‘ll tell you what’s offensive:
-The first two commandments violate the Free Exercise clause of the First Amendment.
-The third commandment is a clear abridgment of the freedom of speech.
-The fourth commandment is an encroachment on the Establishment Clause…
If you want to post 10 things on government property, post the Ten Amendments, not the Ten Commandments as they are grossly subversive to the constitution.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 3:00pm“I‘ll tell you what’s offensive:
-The first two commandments violate the Free Exercise clause of the First Amendment.
-The third commandment is a clear abridgment of the freedom of speech.
-The fourth commandment is an encroachment on the Establishment Clause…”
yeah this is amusing as hell..who says you aren’t good for a laugh or two? you atheists don’t want free exercise of anything other than the faith of atheism and speech you agree with….you atheists try silence all other free exercise.
and you sure want to establish the religion of atheism as our state religion.
Report Post »skiz
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:57amSorry @locked your wrong. Check your history.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 9:05amWhich part is wrong? I wrote:
“Our laws did not come specifically from the 10 Commandments. The first three are strictly religious, the only case for the fourth would be “blue laws” restricting, say, selling alcohol on Sundays, the fifth is just decent advice, the next four are found in almost every country, and the last is (like the fifth), just decent advice and not a law.
Our founding fathers were mostly Christian, but the 10 Commandments are not codified in our Declaration, Constitution, nor laws.”
So your options for me being “wrong” are:
1. Our founding fathers weren’t for the most part Christians
2. All of the 10 commandments are present in the Declaration, Constitution, and our laws, or
3. Most countries do not have laws against murder, stealing, or lying under oath.
Which did you mean?
Report Post »drago
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 9:46am@Skiz
Report Post »Locked is our resident troll, also known as encinom, and many other names on here, he came in one day, found a nice little basement to sleep in, and hasnt ever left…..
Locked
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 10:00am@Drago
Pffftt, nice try. Would you like to step up to the plate and take a swing at the question at hand?
Report Post »The_Jerk
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 10:11amSkiz and Drago, neither of you said anything of substance. Debate, don’t hate. Convince people, with facts and logic, not the childish name calling that any 6 year old can do.
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 10:17amYou are wrong in thinking most founding fathers were christian. Check your history. Most were too inteligent to go for any fairytale, or fable; and that is why the ACLU is needed. Just move the statue to private land. Simple, unless you are trying to make me believe in the old testament.
Report Post »By the way, the 10 commandments have absolutely nothing to do with Christians. Christians did not exist when they were “supposedly” delivered.
KAdams
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 10:30amAlthough I don’t agree entirely with Locked on a lot of things, he/she’s a hell of a lot more sensible than Encinom.
At any rate, I myself am a Christian, and I see it this way. The Ten Commandments, being present in a public/government space should mean thus: It is a message to Christians, they acknowledge them and continue on. Others that don’t believe in the Ten Commandments, should understand that the message is for Christians. And continue on, as the message doesn’t/shouldn’t concern them. Another good example could be if a billboard was written in Spanish. People that don’t speak Spanish understand the message is for Latinos. Or Spanish TV…
No?
Report Post »KAdams
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 10:38am@Mac:
Report Post »Matthew 5:21
Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Romans 13:9
For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
macpappy
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:19am@kadams
Report Post »I understand the scripture quoted, and your point. However, as I have stated in many cases this shows how the Christians in their infancy, co-opted the Old Testiment, as a base on which to build the modern church we all know. The commandment were delivered to a Jew, not a christian. Abraham and all the historical elements of the Old Testament were servants or Jehovah, the God of Abaham, Noah, Job, etc. No where in the Old Testament is there mention of a Trilogy, you know, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. These elements were introduced in the New Testament, I used the word stolen before, but co-opted is a better choice of words I think.
Please, don’t misunderstand me, I am not Christian bashing, I am trying to allow Christians to put the shoe on the ohter foot. No Christian would want to pass a statue of Muhammad before going to trial, or getting married.
Pontiac
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:48pmTen Commandments: Basis for American Law?
Report Post »http://atheism.about.com/od/tencommandments/a/americanlaw.htm
(Two Pages.)
Locked
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 1:44pm@Pontiac
Interestingly, I had never read that article before… but it still hit almost everything I said!
Hoping some of the nay-sayers come back to back up their words :-(
Report Post »Pontiac
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 2:45pm@Locked
Report Post »Back them up with what? It’s a checkmate.
All they can do now is throw a temper tantrum and tell us we’re going to hell and/or try to divert the argument.
IMCHRISTIAN
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:55amI think they should change their name They are very un-American to some religions, not civil to all, no liberties for all, well maybe they do act like a pouting union
Report Post »Stu D. Baker-Hawk
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:53amSatan is alive and well and a charter member of the ACLU. To all ACLU members: You gonna haf lots a splainin’ to do when you meet God (and I’d hate to be YOU!).
Report Post »The_Jerk
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 9:02amIt’s not Satan. It’s the ACLU. Know thine enemies. The leadership of the ACLU is reminiscent of a temple board meeting per Rabbi Daniel Lapin. The attack on Christianity comes from a very Jewish source. Nothing’s changed.
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 10:26am@thejerk
Report Post »Well, a jew would find anything Christian a tad bit hard to swallow would they not? I mean the Christians stole the old testament, which is a Jewish record of history. See Jews don’t accept Jesus as the Son Of God. Don’t you see a problem with making folks that believe in another religious entity walk past a statue that proclaims the existance of only one God?
Tone down the emotions and imagine if you had to walk past a statue of Muhammad to go get married.
tzion
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 10:49amThe Jews in the ACLU are largely from less observant or secular backgrounds. What you need to remember is that the early days of the Jewish Reform movement came about because some Jews felt that if they behaved more like their Christian neighbors they wouldn’t be persecuted. When that didn’t happen, some began to believe that Christianity and religion as a whole were the cause of their suffering. It was due to Christian persecution that Jews began to flock to ideas like Marxism (Marx himself was a secular Jew).
Report Post »RJJinGadsden
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 10:53amMACPAPPY, Where are you getting this crap? The Christians did not ‘steal’ the Old Testement. Christianity sprang from Judaism. Christ was born Jewish. As for your distortions of the founding fathers, I agree, probably not all were Christian. But, how about reading about them in their own words. Go and actually read Jefferson’s writings and not the detracting drivel written by latter day liberals who set out to distort his being. I’ll guarantee that you will never read of him saying anything against Christianity. In fact, you will read how he started a number of churches.
Report Post »KAdams
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:13am@Jing:
While Christ is of the Hebrew bloodline, he was a Nazarene; nationality, at that time based on the place one was born or raised, i.e. Jews came from Judea, Samaritans from Samaria, etc. Jesus wasn’t a Jew, as he didn’t come from Judea.
Report Post »RJJinGadsden
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:21amKADAMS, In your distorted assessment, when I was in the service the children born overseas to American service members would not be Americans. Christ is best known as as a Galilean Jewish Rabbi who was regarded as a teacher and healer in Judaea. He practiced the Jewish faith, thus making him a Jew.
Report Post »RJJinGadsden
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:23amKADAMS, I guess that rabble that followed Moses were not really Jews either since they were born in Egypt?
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:43am@RJJinGadsden
Report Post »I got my crap from the actually study of the Bible as we know it, and the Bible as we never knew it.
Look, the church did not exist during Christ time, Christ did not invent, nor sponsor, nor convene a church as we know them. The church as it exist today, was formed by the Apostles, and the bible was put together by them and other people over many hundreds of years. So, Jesus was not a Christian. Oh, the horror of that comment, alas, but it is true. Remember, he taught the trilogy.
The old Testament was used as a base for the creation of a church that was easier to follow than the Laws of Abraham, but still held with the laws of Abraham. Meaning you could break the laws of Abe and get you some of that forgiveness we be selling. See the Old Testament tells of a Messiah, and the New Testament claims that Christ is that Messiah. Followers of the Old Testament do not agree with that claim. The Apostles created the church out of a desire for power. The church gave them power.
tzion
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:45am@KAdams and others
Report Post »The people who left Egypt with Moses were the Israelites who were descendents of Israel (Jacob). After the death of King Solomon the Israelite kingdom split with David’s descendents retaining what was known as the Kingdom of Judea. The northern kingdom was destroyed by the Assyrians. Judea was conquered by the Babylonians later on. Jews are the descendents of this ancient Kingdom of Judea, which existed in Judea. Judea the region is named after the Kingdom and the people (which are in turn named for the tribe of Judah, from which the Davidic line comes) not the other way around. Jesus, as a descendent of the Judeans, is a Jew.
macpappy
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:04pmI am afraid tha zion has it right here. See the Jews of the time and in historical review call Jesus a great Rabbi. if nothing else. Does any of that matter? The question is about a religious symbol on the property of the state. Should it matter who the religion belongs to? No, it should not. It should not be on public property no matter who claims it. The fact that the majority finds no offense has no bearing at all. Our constitution, and the bill of rights are to protect the minority from the majority. That is why we are a Republic, not a Democracy.
Report Post »RJJinGadsden
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 1:39pmMACPAPPY, You are now saying what almost everybody here knows about the origins of Christianity. Here at my desk is the seminary bible that my grandmother gave me in the mid ’60s. In no way did I say that Jesus himself started Christianity. Influenced it? Yes. My point was that the Christians did not as you said, steal the Old Testement.
Report Post »GodHatesFigs
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 1:39pmAlso, none of that malarkey actually happened.
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 2:03pm@RJJinGadsden
Report Post »Alright then.
RJJinGadsden
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 3:45pmMACPAPPY, If we still disagree on anything I can accept that and respect your beliefs. But, I don’t think that we are that far apart after all. Thanks for the conversation and the tidbit of a debate. I plan to dig into my bible and reread a number of things again, and I have you to thank for that inspiration. Have no plans to jump back in here to say “See, I told you so.” Have a great one.
Report Post »One Man Progressive Wrecking Crew
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:53amI so freaking hate these people soooooo much. :(
Report Post »kentuckypatriot
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 9:03amPerhaps we should pray for them
Report Post »Miyegombo Bayartsogt
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 9:21amLove them and forgive them or be damned for an eternity to the tortures of hell, the tortures of hell.
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:07pmHate is not a virtue of Christ. It takes much more energy to hate someone, than it does to afford them a sideways glance and nothing more.
Report Post »marybethelizabeth
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:53amNo they are not.
Jane Felix and B.N. Coone are suing.
Report Post »skiz
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:52amMind blowing! How can it be that they are suing to remove the rules that our entire justice system is based upon? There is no religion forced on anyone! If you dont want to, dont follow it. HOW CAN YOU BE OFFENDED? It is simply not logical.
Report Post »RJJinGadsden
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:52amMembers of the community should put together a rotating schedule and march in demonstration on the ACLU offices. Just hound and pound them for a month or more. Give them a taste of what the OWS is doing. But, these people will clean and well dressed, and not acting morons. When confronted by the media they should demand their 1st Amendment rights should not be trampled.
Report Post »Pokerjoe
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 10:48amAny good judge could stop this stuff.
Report Post »RJJinGadsden
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 10:57amPOKERJOE, Yeah, they could and should. But, judges are lawyers themselves. Look at all of the totally absurd law suits that actually do go forward. The same reasons that sharks will not bite lawyers applies to judges too. They were once in the driver’s seat of law suits too. Professional courtesy.
Report Post »ares338
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:45amWouldn’t it be interesting to know how many ACLU lawyers attend church or belong to one? Hmmmm.
Report Post »Miyegombo Bayartsogt
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:56amGodless, faithless, leftwing commie lawyers have their churches too!
Report Post »Gimme Shelter
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:45amJane Felix and B.N. Coone…I‘m suing you because I’m offended by you!
Report Post »Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:43amIs there a way the ACLU could be sued for religious discrimination? After all, I feel persecuted by them for being a Christian.
Report Post »Pattoncc
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 9:42amat one time I attempted to contact them and I used the same argument. But they said that they felt it was not their duty to defend me because my religion represented the majority not the minority.
Report Post »ares338
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:41amAssinineClulessLawersUnited continue their useless campaign to deny people the rights the country was founded upon. No….I am not a religious person but totally not the point because even if the commandments are on display they don’t hurt a thing and are pretty good words to live by. Doesn’t it seem like ACLU types all look like old hippies with pony tails trying to be relevant? Go figure. I hope the display stays up!
Report Post »13th Imam
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:40amWhy don’t they Start with the Supreme Court Building. Start with the Black Robed Judges that , by NOT following the US Constitution, create most of this BS here. But then the Top Lawyers would put all the rest of the Bloodsucking Lawyers out of a job. Maybe they could get jobs cutting sugarcane.
Report Post »grandmaof5
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:37amDoes anyone ever countersue the ACLU? It seems like the only articles I see are those pertaining to the ACLU treadiing on my rights. Do Christians ever peacefully protest the ACLU and what they don’t stand for? Just asking……
Report Post »Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:45amI would love to do so – anymore I feel that the ACLU is carrying out a progressive series of assaults on religion, just as Obama and his cronies now are doing. Good luck and God blessing to those who do countersue the ACLU.
Report Post »grandmaof5
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:49amMorning, SNOW, hope all is well in AZ. Beautiful here in FL today as I hope it is there. Have a great day!!!
Report Post »Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:54amCould be warmer here too – do you think anyone actually suing the ACLU would have a chance of success? Sometimes I have to wonder if this would be the version of a lawer suing himself for defamation of character and beating himself – one big mess.
Report Post »grandmaof5
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:33pmProbably not but everytime they win one of these suits, it just makes it easier and easier the next times. Why should an atheist have more rights than the majority of Americans? I don’t have the $ to fight them but I would certainly be willing to contribute to the cause.
Report Post »vaman
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:36am“continuation of its crusade against Christianity and its place in American society.”
Doesn’t that sound scary? The comment is totally untrue of course, but that’s how they get a reaction.
Report Post »Like them or hate them, the ACLU is right. If that city hall is not going to allow all faiths or non faiths to display what they want, then the 10 commandments have to go. There are an endless amount of churches where that display is appropriate.
keraz
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:58amI don’t see anything in the story that says city hall will not allow other displays.
That being said, I think the ACLU is completely wrong on this. If they truly had grounds for this, then why aren’t they suing the government due to the fact that the US Supreme Court building has a display of the Ten Commandments there? Or the fact that Congress has an opening prayer before each session (I believe they still do)?
This country was founded on Christian beliefs. The Bible was used as a text book in schools back in the 1700s. The ‘separation of Church and State’ is a myth perpetuated by people who misinterpreted the letter sent to the Danbury Baptists by Thomas Jefferson.
If you take out the religious aspect of the Ten Commandments, I think ‘Thou shalt not kill’ is a pretty good thing to live by.
Report Post »crazyoz
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:35amThe ACLU is another arm of the anti Christian Obama administration.
Report Post »oldguy49
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:39ampaid by guess who………………………..yep us
Report Post »USPATRIOT101
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 9:01amI look at the aclu as a militan group that has launched a full blown assault on our constitution.
Report Post »louise
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:32amthe ACLU has everything backwards. Why sue to take down some God has established and is good for man? Why not instead sue to tear down the Georgia guide stones?
Report Post »louise
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:33amcorrection: Something….instead of the word ‘some’
Report Post »caleejr
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:27amCongress did not make a law establishing a religion in Bloomfield, New Mexico
Report Post »Sirfoldallot
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:37amIt is not a Law or a religion
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:25amThe ACLU should just go ahead and sue God for writing them and get it over with.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:47amCan’t do so. I‘d imagine they’d run into the same issue as when people tried to sue the Devil. Found out they don’t have jurisdiction.
… I’m actually being serious. The case is United States ex rel. Gerald Mayo v. Satan and His Staff (1971).
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 9:16amWhat was he sueing for Locked? Ice water in Hell?
Report Post »Locked
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 9:27amHarassment, mostly.
“Satan has on numerous occasions caused plaintiff misery and unwarranted threats, against the will of plaintiff, that Satan has placed deliberate obstacles in his path and has caused plaintiff’s downfall“ and had therefore ”deprived him of his constitutional rights.”
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 9:33amThat could be a class action lawsuit! The World VS Satan.
Report Post »KAdams
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 10:34am@Gonzo:
Lol… might as well say, Satan vs. Satan, there.
Report Post »Sirfoldallot
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:24amNot a relegion, a way 4 all fellow men should live , WTH is wrong with these ppl , + ACUL.
Report Post »SpankDaMonkey
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:23am.
Report Post »I say we remove the 10 Comandments just long enough to Club the ACLU over the head with them…..
Sirfoldallot
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:39amGood idea, lol.
Report Post »lynnissmart
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 9:24amSpankdamonkey: Ha, ha, you made me laugh!
Report Post »tzion
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 10:52amWith their thick skulls? Isn’t it bad enough that Moses smashed the first set? Do we really want to break another set over the ACLU’s collective heads?
Report Post »RJJinGadsden
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:03amGive the ACLU the Ark Of The Covenant and suggest they open it. But, remotely film the results. Might make for a good laugh.
Report Post »hi
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:20amIt seems like it is just history as to where our laws came from. But, I admit, I wouldn’t want any commands from the Koran displayed on public grounds. Like “Declare jihad on all of the infidels.”
Report Post »Locked
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:26am“It seems like it is just history as to where our laws came from.”
Our laws did not come specifically from the 10 Commandments. The first three are strictly religious, the only case for the fourth would be “blue laws” restricting, say, selling alcohol on Sundays, the fifth is just decent advice, the next four are found in almost every country, and the last is (like the fifth), just decent advice and not a law.
Our founding fathers were mostly Christian, but the 10 Commandments are not codified in our Declaration, Constitution, nor laws.
Report Post »Sirfoldallot
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:26amBig diffrance u moe.
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