Faith

Alabama City to Let Non-Violent Criminals Choose Jail or…Weekly Church Attendance

Non-violent offenders in Bay Minette, Alabama, are going to face a choice: Either go to jail and pay a fine or go to church every Sunday for one year. This new policy, which begins next week and is being praised as a potential opportunity to turn lives around, is sure to agitate church and state separatists.

The initiative, called Operation Restore Our Community (ROC), will allow misdemeanor offenders to opt for church worship rather than jail. The concept is simple: If they complete the one-year church program, their case will be dismissed.

The program allows for flexibility, as individuals will be able to select the place of worship they wish to attend. Those who choose this option must meet with pastors and police weekly to ensure that they are completing the initiative as planned. So far, 56 area churches are participating in the ROC program.

Some, though, may be wondering why a church program would be offered as an alternative to incarceration. Utilizing churches as a way to address non-violent crime may, some say, provide individuals with support services as well as an environment that is more friendly to assisting them in changing their lives.

During a time when local communities find themselves strapped for cash, this program may offer relief. According to Bay Minette Police Chief Mike Rowland, it costs $75 per inmate, per day to house prisoners. By placing non-violent criminals into community programs, the cost of incarceration may be brought down substantially.

Rowland has already responded to individuals who may have an issue with the religious nature of the punishment offered. He claims that the provision doesn’t violate separation of church and state mandates due to the fact that offenders are able to choose whether they wish to go to jail or worship weekly.

It’s certainly a unique approach. If it works, other communities could follow suit.

Comments (222)

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  • Dudley Do-Right
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:56am

    I can’t see this working. Are repeat drunk drivers considered non violent? Parole departments won‘t even take a chance on releasing drunk drivers for fear they’ll kill someone while on parole. Not to mention the myriad of churches out there with less than noble intentions, White Supremacist churches come to mind. And I have to wonder about the percentage of non violent first offenders. The recidivism rates in jail are quite high, will prior violent incarcerations be included? Inmates have nothing but time on their hands, consequently; they look for ways to file lawsuits against their jailers all the time. What’s going to happen when an inmate claims his religion is a White supremacist religion? Will the state violate his first amendment rights by refusing to allow him to attend the church of his choice?

    Report Post »  
  • Mark Hartman
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:52am

    Here’s a question. What if the criminals already go to church? This seems to presume if you go to church you can’t make mistakes, but that is just silly. I am a church going Christian but that hasn’t made somehow made me immune to mistakes.

    If I got arrested it would just be, “Ok, I guess I’ll keep living my life exactly as I was before with no repercussions.”

    That for me, is a major loop hole.

    Report Post »  
    • Fly Old Glory 24/7 365
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:56am

      good question but I am going to say that most ppl that go to church are not getting arrested for crimes they could go to jail for. I would assume this program has more to it than simply going to church.

      Report Post »  
    • VerySeniorCitizen
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:57am

      What happens to the priests, clergy or whatever a church calls these folks are the wrong-doers? Are they REFUSED the right to attend church?

      Report Post »  
    • encinom
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 12:27pm

      On its face this is unconsitutional. Are atheist and agnostics to be jailed because they don’t beleive in magical sky fathers?

      Report Post »  
    • Stoic one
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 1:17pm

      ecinom
      the choice would be one hour a week for a year listening about ‘magic sky fathers’ or being in JAIL . the choice for me is easy because I like my freedom of movement.

      which would you choose?

      Report Post » Stoic one  
    • HuckleberryFriend
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 1:58pm

      Absolutely. I would much rather they require non-violent criminals spend weekends working manual labor for the state to pay off their cost to society.

      Report Post » HuckleberryFriend  
    • American Soldier (Separated)
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 2:54pm

      @STOIC ONE

      So you’re willing to forego your personal conviction for lighter sentencing?

      Report Post » American Soldier (Separated)  
    • jailpolice
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 3:18pm

      Usually, Crimes are not “mistakes” but “choices” < It may not work to rehab in some cases but it's certainly better than any other rehab program.

      Report Post »  
    • the hawk
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 4:21pm

      Oh NO its Church or Jail…………….Thats Sharia Law………..

      Report Post »  
    • dpmeek71
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 4:26pm

      I don’t think that the program is saying that. Look at it this way most of the time when people get themselves in trouble of a criminal nature it can be traced back to people, places and things. It’s the people they hung out with, the places they went and the things they did. Change those three aspects to a groups that have a moral under pinning and the chance of true life change will increase.

      Report Post »  
    • encinom
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 4:41pm

      Stoic one
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 1:17pm
      ecinom
      the choice would be one hour a week for a year listening about ‘magic sky fathers’ or being in JAIL . the choice for me is easy because I like my freedom of movement.

      which would you choose?
      _____________________________________________
      I like my freedom to believe in what I choose without hte government forcing its views on me. Also, what freedom of movement, I am being forced to go some place I may choose not to be in.

      Report Post »  
    • the hawk
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 5:11pm

      Let the Atheist / Agnostic s watch Lord of the ring or Harry Potter 100 X MORE !

      Report Post »  
    • ampatriot
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 5:51pm

      @encinom
      your arguement is become very weak.
      although i think your in the right place.
      being here has raised your eyeQ a bit

      Report Post » ampatriot  
    • TulsaYeeHaw
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 6:26pm

      Encinom is totally right.

      THIS IS A CLEAR VIOLATION OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT.

      We can’t have it both ways.

      Report Post »  
    • Bible Quotin' Science Fearin' Conservative American
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 6:30pm

      Bay Minette is where I went to middle and high school. Go Tigers!

      Report Post » Bible Quotin' Science Fearin' Conservative American  
    • LibertarianForLife
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:34pm

      @Ampatriot
      His argument is weak as opposed to what, your nonexistent one? Extrordinary claims require extordinary evidence, of which you have none. Be quiet now and go lean on your religous crutch, fool.

      Report Post »  
    • child of the King
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 9:09pm

      Mark, you have an interesting question.you hear sometimes people that are already in church are caccused or caught in the actof doing a crime, for example embezzlement.I’m not saying everybody in church is bad ,I’m saying you may wind up with a few bad applesin the congregation already. This program might work out for the good and might bring new souls to Christ and they might turn away from their crime and not want to do it again.

      Report Post »  
    • WeeeDontNeeedNoSteeenkinBadges
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:12pm

      “During a time when local communities find themselves strapped for cash, this program may offer relief.”

      Here’s a better idea for those government tyrants. It’s simple:
      STOP ARRESTING PEOPLE FOR NON-CRIMES!

      Here’s the “real crimes” list:
      theft – restitution and x3 or x5 of value penalty
      murder – death penalty (on testimony of eye witnesses)
      assault – eye for eye, tooth for tooth, stripe for stripe, (etc.)
      sex crimes – death penalty (on testimony of eye witnesses)
      false witnesses – pays penalty of the crime

      Well, what do you know … no prisons needed.

      (Oh, BTW, tyrannical government … imprisonment is kidnapping — a death penalty crime. American can start with Justice pronounced on all present day judges and jailers.)

      Report Post » WeeeDontNeeedNoSteeenkinBadges  
    • MHP
      Posted on September 24, 2011 at 7:13am

      encinom

      So you’d rather do a year in jail instead of weekends at church.
      Have fun being raped by the baboons

      Report Post » MHP  
    • MHP
      Posted on September 24, 2011 at 7:16am

      encinom

      Show me where it’s unconstitutional, word for word.
      You cannot, and I do know the US constitution much better than you.

      You got your education from the baboons who teach LA schools.

      Report Post » MHP  
    • UPSETVET
      Posted on September 24, 2011 at 9:45am

      Speaking as a past “hellraiser” who is now a Christian (the last 41 years) I believe it’s worth a trail run to see if it actually leads to rehabilitation of the offenders. One thing’s for sure, rehabilitation in jails and prisons is a colossal failure. To often petty criminals become hardened criminals through their contact with other hardened criminals in jails and prisons. Weekly contact with Christians could salvage a soul and a life.

      Often those who committ non-violent crimes who are incarcerated with violent crimiunals become violent and dangerous to society. Church attendance is an option to turn the system around for the betterment of our society. Hey, it’s not a Monopoly Game. If they don’t go to church as agreed, they go to jail. No free get out of jail pass. Since the offenders would have a chioce, jail or church, I don’t see in conflict with the Constitutional separation of state and religion.

      Report Post »  
    • PubliusPencilman
      Posted on September 24, 2011 at 1:58pm

      So Upsetvet, if the criminal is Jewish, they have to go to church or face jail time? In the land of the free?

      Report Post »  
    • TulsaYeeHaw
      Posted on September 25, 2011 at 1:26am

      @MHP
      “encinom
      Show me where it’s unconstitutional, word for word.
      You cannot, and I do know the US constitution much better than you.

      You got your education from the baboons who teach LA schools.”

      The gov’t shall make no law RESPECTING ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION, nor prohibiting the free exercise therof.

      This is an obvious gov’t promotion of Christianity, and is a violation of the first amendment.
      If the crime was so light that a year of going to church is fit punishment, then a prison sentence isn’t needed anyway.

      To state otherwise, when you KNOW this a not in the spirit of the first amendment, yet claim yourself so knowledgable of the constitution is violating the God given commandment “thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor”

      Report Post »  
    • misteryuck
      Posted on September 25, 2011 at 8:27am

      TulsaYeeHaw…
      Correct me if I am wrong, but I belive the constitution reads “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;”.
      Is the city of Bay Minette, Alabama the United States Congress?
      The U.S. Constitution is a charter of negative liberties from the perspective of the statist.
      The constitution restricts what the federal government can do, not state and local governments. As it was written, the constitution made all citizens Kings and the Federal government their servant. How times have changed.
      No one in Bay Minette, Alabama’s liberties are being taken away without due process. They simply have an additional option.
      So, explain how Congress is making a law respecting AN ESTABLISMENT of religion in Bay Minette, Alabama… Remember the Danbury Baptists? The Danbury Baptist Church would qualify as AN ESTABLISMENT of religion…

      Report Post » misteryuck  
  • OhForGodsSake
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:49am

    I’m glad we love the constitution when it serves our purpose (second amendment comes to mind), but this clear violation of church and state is totally fine. A choice between jail and church once a week is not really a balanced choice. Why don’t we cut out the crime part and just give non-Christians the choice to go to church or go to jail?

    Report Post »  
    • jhl1769
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 12:13pm

      The phrase “separation of church and state” itself does not appear in the United States Constitution. The First Amendment states that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”

      Report Post »  
    • ...EriK
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 12:17pm

      The 1st Amendment states, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” And, there have been several cases decided by the Supreme Court over the years that extends the “protections from the government” to the state and local levels. So, I do not see where the choice between jail/fine and church (of choice) attendence runs afoul. But hey, I not an attorney!

      Report Post » ...EriK  
    • OhForGodsSake
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 1:01pm

      By only allowing people to choose between Christian church and jail, the government is giving preferential treatment to one religion over another. The establishment clause has always been interpreted to prohibit 1) the establishment of a national religion by Congress, or 2) the preference by the U.S. government of one religion over another. This is because the preferential treatment of one religion by the government inherently limits the free exercise of another.

      Report Post »  
    • Wringeaux
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 2:22pm

      The DMV and the courts around the country have been doing this for years by making people attend Alcohol Anonymous meetings for a year or maybe more. As for the DMV in Colorado it is MAMDATORY. You have NO choice ! AA is a ‘spiritual’ program’ often closed with “The Lords Prayer”. I am Christian a ‘salvationst’ to be exact. I believe forcing religion on someone only pushes them farther away. I’m 50 now the Salvation Army Adult Rehabilition Program saved my life and 5 years ago. It showed me a better way to live drug and alcohol free.

      johnnywringeaux@gmail.com in Colorado Springs, Colorado

      Report Post » Wringeaux  
    • bruce_baker
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 3:53pm

      They give the perp the choice of which church to attend. BTW, if there is no God, what is the source of human morality?

      “Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensible supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens… Let it simply be asked, where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice?” – George Washington, Farewell Address

      Report Post » bruce_baker  
    • encinom
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 4:45pm

      bruce_baker
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 3:53pm
      They give the perp the choice of which church to attend. BTW, if there is no God, what is the source of human morality?
      _____________________________________
      For the atheist or agnostic, what is his choice? What about the muslim, hindu or pagan?

      Report Post »  
    • SovereignSoul
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 4:56pm

      Human morality could simply be a product of “preservation of the species”. Just as is procreation. I’m not saying it is. I’m just pointing out that there are many possible answers to your question.

      Report Post » SovereignSoul  
    • Rational Man
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 5:44pm

      @encinom

      Everybodies choice is the same…….Take it or leave it!
      It’s an option. No one is forced to take it………..

      Report Post » Rational Man  
    • American Soldier (Separated)
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 6:12pm

      @RATIONAL MAN

      But it’s an option that favors one religious group over another. If it were Islam that were the choice, would you accept it willingly since it’s a choice and you can just choose jail rather than go to a Mosque every weekend? I wonder if you were in this situation, would you find it fair?

      Don’t give me the old cliche “If you’re not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about“ because ”wrong” can easily be changed these day in age, especially with a socialist in the seat of POTUS!

      Report Post » American Soldier (Separated)  
    • Rational Man
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 6:49pm

      @American Soldier (Separated)

      Not a big deal, I would choose to stay in jail. Or, I might just take the option so I could get out of jail and sacrifice one day a week to try to talk some Muslims out of their insanity. I might even help convert a few.
      Not sure if they would let me in though. Since I am an infidel. That’s the beautiful thing about Christianity. Everyone is welcome!

      Report Post » Rational Man  
    • pattybbb1
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 7:30pm

      Be interesting if someone chooses a Saturday church

      Report Post »  
  • N37BU6
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:46am

    Wow, pushing religion people as an alternative to jail time… that’s not creepy at all. It’s exactly what a government should be doing.

    But remember not to whine when it’s Islam, Blazers. You’re setting the precedent. Don’t pull the “it’s not the job of the government to X” when the time comes.

    Report Post » N37BU6  
    • VerySeniorCitizen
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:54am

      I‘ll take ’church’ time! It won’t appear on my record and it will give me time to think happy thoughts while the guy at the lecturn preaches hell, fire and damnation!

      Report Post »  
    • bornbitter
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 12:41pm

      I can see problems arising from this, but I don‘t think it is ’pushing’ religion on anyone. They get to choose. While this may work as a revolving door for certain criminals… what’s the point of prison? Is it to reform and rehabilitate, or is it to simply incarcerate? What is more likely to ‘change’ a person for the better? Staring at concrete walls and joining the chorus of profanity in jail, or going to church, of your own choice?
      I support the city’s right to make this choice, and I don‘t believe it is infringing any fictional constitutional requirement to ’separate’ church and state. If you disagree, remember it is ‘separate’, not ‘segregate’ church and state… and if the state is endorsing a church, which ‘church’ is it? I didn’t see anything that implies that you have to go to a certain baptist, or catholic, or etc… church. Just that it was ‘church’.

      While, like I said, i can see problems with this, I think they have the full right to try something to fix a system that is admittedly broken. Also, remember, this is for petty crime, not felonies.

      Report Post »  
    • American Soldier (Separated)
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 3:00pm

      @N37BU6

      Exactly. I always put this criteria in before I agree with a law. How will this be used against me? How can it be used against me in the future? How can it be used against my children, their children and their children’s children? Christianity is popular now, but will it be in 10 years? 50 years? 100 years? What if Alabama sees an influx of Muslims in the next 50 years and Ban Minette, Alabama elects a Muslim police chief? All the sudden the law that benefited Christians for 50 years now punishes them. Who’s fault was it? YOU set the precedent all those years ago…. that’s my neutrality is key to the success of freedom in the long run! If you can’t force your beliefs on others today, then others can’t force their beliefs on you TOMORROW.

      @BORNBITTER

      How is that really a choice? Serve six months in jail or be freed on their own recognizance to attend church one a week. Who would want to choose jail? But then they‘re forced to participate in a religion they don’t believe in. How is that equal protection under the law for non-believers? This is a total bias policy in favor of Christians and you damn well know it.

      Report Post » American Soldier (Separated)  
    • KPEdwards
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 3:42pm

      @AMERICAN SOLDIER (SEPARATED)

      At first I was going to write how really it’s a good idea that could be easily fixed to include non-religious rehabilitation programs along with actual any religious service. However, then I realized that in a unlikely, extreme a mob-type organization could create a front rehab program. Then I realized, that really a mob-type organization could come up with a “church” front. So, really unless there’s some criteria for which churches count as “good” churches, for lack of a better label, I don’t see how this really will work … at all. And, you really can’t have any criteria language as that would be clearly violating the literal words of the clause by establishing a religion.

      This will almost certainly lead to a lawsuit and be struck down. And if I had to guess, it’ll be within a year. It makes me wish I could short this.

      Report Post »  
  • spareGgnome
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:46am

    well I know this is kinda a do this or that situation article but I know here in north carolina there are prison ministries and they bring prisoners to church ever week. once they are out some come back some some don’t. I dont think its a bad idea since the Word of God is coming to thier ears.

    Report Post »  
    • Countrygirl1362
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 12:01pm

      You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink, comes to mind.

      Report Post »  
  • AmericanStrega
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:44am

    Riiiiiight. Who’s going to enforce the non-violent criminals getting to church each Sunday?

    Report Post »  
    • Locked
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 12:12pm

      The pastors need to sign off that they were there, and presumably a corrections officer would check in with the person, similar to someone out on probation. If they‘re not obeying the terms of their sentence they’d be sent back or jail or given addition fines.

      Report Post »  
    • zman173rd
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 1:48pm

      Now we create more government organizations to put this into practice. Make additional laws to police it. Another to monitor it’s values. commitees to oversee it. A regulatory commision to govern it. A committee to ensure equal rights to the “prisoners”. Civil rights comittess to make sure all are treated witht he same amount of kindness Blah Blah. Who gets this picture ? ? ?

      Report Post » zman173rd  
    • Locked
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 2:41pm

      @Zman

      Alternative is to jail them at a cost of $75 a day per prisoner, all for non-violent crimes. So, which one saves money?

      Report Post »  
  • Johnny916
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:38am

    I can imagine getting arrested in Alabama and getting the choice of church or jail. Being Jewish I would be skeptical of church but wouldn’t mind if I could have some pork chops. Yes, Jews do like pork too. I’m not that religious when it comes to food.

    Report Post »  
  • TxMadMac
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:37am

    What happened to separation of church and state ? he he he

    Report Post »  
  • Johnny916
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:34am

    Kind of a weird alternative. I’m Jewish so I never have been inside a church. Isn’t Georgia in the Bible Belt area of the U.S.?

    Report Post »  
    • Locked
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:38am

      Yes, but this is Alabama… also the Bible Belt, but a different state :)

      Best compromise would be to allow weekly community service as an alternative to church attendance. Habitat for Humanity, a food bank, a cleaning crew to pick up the side of a highway, Salvation Army… lots of non-religious options that would help the community. Since the program is called “Restore Our Community,” I feel it would fit right in with it.

      Report Post »  
    • bear knucklez
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:40am

      I’m sure that the word church is inclusive of mosques, churches, temples, synagogues, etc… its just easier to say church than to think about the proper way to spell all of the other options.

      Report Post »  
    • MidWestMom
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:43am

      @ locked

      Excellent alternative. And one I would fully support.

      Report Post »  
    • Dismayed Veteran
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:51am

      I bet there are a lot of elderly people that would like their lawns mowed and houses painted.

      Report Post » Dismayed Veteran  
    • American Soldier (Separated)
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 3:07pm

      @LOCKED

      Why can’t that be the system instead of forced church attendance? I have no problem with forced community service at any choice of organizations to pay back their dues for their crimes. Why was church even brought in as an alternative? At least with community service, something comes out of what they are doing. Habitat for Humanity would have another strong back to help build some houses, I support that plan!

      @BEAR KNUCKLEZ

      Now you’re just trying to rationalize it. They did not make it to be inclusive to other religions. They could have easily say “Place of Worship” which would cover other religions but they CHURCH which is a Christian term. But that still doesn’t provide equal treatment for those of non-religious backgrounds. Any one of us can be arrested for non-violent crimes, regardless of how good you are. Talk those those Amish in Kentucky that served time in jail for their non-violent offense. Did they ever think they’d go to jail? Should they have been forced to attend a traditional Christian church? Is that even an OPTION they’d be willing to accept?

      Report Post » American Soldier (Separated)  
  • Oh My God
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:32am

    Great alternative!! The bad guys should be required to do some volunteer work at the churches,

    Report Post »  
  • NuffSaid
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:26am

    Wow. Maybe there’s real HOPE, for a CHANGE.

    Report Post »  
    • rangerp
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:37am

      I did this when i was a company commander. had two problem soldiers, that were repeat offenders with drugs and alcohol. Game them the option to start attending a good Baptist church, or become a civilain. Most likely not the most legal thing I ever did. After church, they would come over to my house, BBQ, and we would turn wrenches on our 4×4 trucks. Soldiers not in trouble started coming also.

      This was about nine years ago. Got a call last year from one of the two problem soldiers. He has been clean since, is married, has two kids, and still going to church. He thanked me for giving him a chance.

      Report Post » rangerp  
    • encinom
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 6:10pm

      @rangerp

      While I agree it is the duty of a company commander to set straight problem soldiers, I have a problem with what you did. If one of the two was Catholic, would you still have forced the soldier to attend a Baptist church, there are stark differnce with the belief system between baptists and Catholics (i was raised Catholic) and attending a Bapist church infringes on a personal matter for the individual. As company commander you were above the soldiers in rank and under threat of discharge forced them to attend a religious service.

      Report Post »  
  • Rational Man
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:22am

    I don’t see a problem with this as long as good judgement is used in deciding who gets the option. And they don‘t send them to Jeremiah Wright’s church, or one like it.

    Churches used to be seen as a place of help and rehabilitation. But some people will complain because they hate Christians or see the church as irrelevant. Which is true to some extent these days.
    One things for sure. There is more hope for rehibilitation in a good church than there is in jail. And it costs less to monitor them than to incarcerate them. The pastor would just have to keep track of the person’s attendance for the court officer.
    Might be good for church members to be more involved in helping and caring for people too!

    Report Post » Rational Man  
    • American Soldier (Separated)
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 3:08pm

      Oh well, as long as good judgement is used and it’s for the greater good!

      But who’s going to decide tomorrow? Next year? Next decade? Next century? Do you want to set these types of precedent which can be turned on you or your family at any given time?

      Report Post » American Soldier (Separated)  
    • Rational Man
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 3:33pm

      It’s not a “precedent”. It’s a C-H-O-I-C-E……. An O-P-T-I-O-N. (look em up in the dictionary)
      You can stay in jail if you want to……………..
      Your tinfoil hat is blocking the truth.
      Or just run through the crowd screaming, “the sky is falling….the sky is falling!!!!!!”

      Report Post » Rational Man  
    • encinom
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 5:01pm

      There is a hugh problem, the 1st amendment. This policy jails atheists or forces them to attend a church against their beliefs.

      Also your statement “don’t see a problem with this as long as good judgement is used in deciding who gets the option. And they don‘t send them to Jeremiah Wright’s church, or one like it.” It violates the First Amendment’s establishment clause. You now have a government official deciding what is a good church and what isn’t.

      Report Post »  
    • Rational Man
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 5:31pm

      Don‘t really care if you don’t like my…….OPINION!

      Do libertarians just overlook the words choice and option so they can spout off their libertarian viewpoints? Or should I say “talking points”?
      Whats more constitutional than choice and optional?
      Your either preaching to the choir or trolling ‘normal’ conservatives.

      Report Post » Rational Man  
    • encinom
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 6:00pm

      Rational Man
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 5:31pm
      Don‘t really care if you don’t like my…….OPINION!

      Do libertarians just overlook the words choice and option so they can spout off their libertarian viewpoints? Or should I say “talking points”?
      Whats more constitutional than choice and optional?
      Your either preaching to the choir or trolling ‘normal’ conservatives.
      _________________________________________
      For the non-christians and the atheists there is no option. For one that does not believe, either he is forced to accept a set of beliefs and practices that meaning nothing to him or sit in jail. For the jew, muslim or other religion, it is being forced to attend a religious service that may be opposed to your beliefs.

      Report Post »  
    • American Soldier (Separated)
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 6:31pm

      @RATIONAL MAN

      I don’t think you understand the concept of a precedent. It leaves it open for those of opposing faith, in the future, to turn the tables on you. Is that what you want? When you set a precedent, you set yourself up for failure in the future.

      How is that a choice? A choice would be something neutral for everyone involved. This is clearly biased and is not a true choice. Would you be singing the same tune had the “CHOICE” been jail or going to a Mosque once a week for two years? I highly doubt it. Freedom in meant for everyone, not just you and those like you. Freedom is not meant to benefit one group but not another.

      So are you telling me, you would be perfectly fine if they said MOSQUE instead of CHURCH? It’s still a choice, right?

      Report Post » American Soldier (Separated)  
    • Rational Man
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 6:43pm

      Nope! I wouldn’t like the Mosque option. So I would stay in jail.
      How hard is that for you to figure out. How did you live this long without being able to figure out simple things out like this?

      Report Post » Rational Man  
  • atombomb
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:19am

    Go go gadget lawsuit.

    Report Post » atombomb  
  • eaglenva
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:18am

    Great idea that has worked in the past. Unfortunately in this day and age as soon some Lib/Prog smells money or votes it’s toast.

    Report Post » eaglenva  
  • KidCharlemagne
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:15am

    What if they decide to attend a mosque?

    Report Post »  
    • TexasHunter
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:24am

      They can not just attend any church. It is a program that certain churches are offering to help. I hope there will be one on one classes for the kids. To teach them the values of decision making. To know that there is punishment for your decisions not just by man.

      Report Post » TexasHunter  
    • Rational Man
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:27am

      Key word here is, “church”. A mosque is not a church. The church is Christian. And even at that, there is the danger of attending a bad one.
      There are many bad places in this country that call themselves “churches” these days.
      Black Liberation and Westboro Baptist come to mind!

      Report Post » Rational Man  
    • encinom
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 5:04pm

      Rational Man
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:27am
      Key word here is, “church”. A mosque is not a church. The church is Christian. And even at that, there is the danger of attending a bad one.
      There are many bad places in this country that call themselves “churches” these days.
      Black Liberation and Westboro Baptist come to mind!
      _____________________________________
      And you have just violated the First Amendment’s establishment clause.

      Report Post »  
    • Rational Man
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 5:41pm

      Oh well!

      Report Post » Rational Man  
    • Rational Man
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 5:55pm

      “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”.

      Care to explain how I violated the above?

      The establishment clause has generally been interpreted to prohibit 1) the establishment of a national religion by Congress, or 2) the preference by the U.S. government of one religion over another. The first approach is called the “separation” or “no aid” interpretation, while the second approach is called the “non-preferential“ or ”accommodation” interpretation. The accommodation interpretation prohibits Congress from preferring one religion over another, but does not prohibit the government’s entry into religious domain to make accommodations in order to achieve the purposes of the Free Exercise Clause. (”… or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”)
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Establishment_Clause_of_the_First_Amendment

      Not a word said, in the article or my posts, about congress or anything national.
      It‘s an Alabama town’s court option.

      Sorry you hate God……..He loves you!

      Report Post » Rational Man  
    • encinom
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 6:05pm

      Rational Man
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 5:55pm
      “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”.

      Care to explain how I violated the above?

      …. 2) the preference by the U.S. government of one religion over another.”
      _______________________________________
      For the atheist he can stand up for what he believes and go to jial or attend a religious service. The government is presenting hte Atheist with a Hobson’s Choice to violate his beliefs in favor of a set of beliefs that the State is approving.

      Also, the First Amendment, because of the 14th, applies to the States and local governments.

      Report Post »  
    • Rational Man
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 6:40pm

      @encinom

      Do you only read what you want to?
      “Not a word said, in the article or my posts, about congress or anything national.
      It‘s an Alabama town’s court option.”
      Not the Federal Government!

      You may not like this idea, but you need to try to find another arguement. The establishment clause ain’t cuttin it……………
      Besides, it’s been abused enough buy people like as it is!

      Report Post » Rational Man  
    • encinom
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 6:45pm

      Rational Man
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 6:40pm
      @encinom

      Do you only read what you want to?
      “Not a word said, in the article or my posts, about congress or anything national.
      It‘s an Alabama town’s court option.”
      Not the Federal Government!
      ____________________________
      The Federal Bill of Rights, through the 14th Amendment, has been applied to the States also (and to the political subdivisions within a state).

      Report Post »  
    • Rational Man
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 9:08pm

      @encinom

      Might as well stop trying to appear smart,….It ain’t workin for ya!
      And it’s unbecoming………………….

      Report Post » Rational Man  
    • encinom
      Posted on September 24, 2011 at 12:33am

      Okay Irrational Man, it is clear that you have ZERO understanding of the US Constitution. The 14th Amendment has incorporated the Bill of Rights onto the states.

      With regards to the issue above Everson v. Board of Ed. controls.

      “The ‘establishment of religion’ clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect ‘a wall of separation between Church and State.’” 330 U.S. 1, 15-16.

      The Court is clear the State can not “force nor influence a person to go… No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-a

      Report Post »  
    • Rational Man
      Posted on September 25, 2011 at 10:35pm

      @encinom

      It truely is astounding that you are so stupid that you don’t even know that your previous post only proves what I have been posting all along. IT’S A FEEL WILL OPTONAL CHOICE!!
      Take it or leave it. Not forcing anyone to do anything. Don’t want to go to church, don’t go to church.
      It’s not endorsing or “supporting” any church. As far as I know they are not excluding any church.
      And my opinion of choosing the right church is just that!!….My opinion!

      You’ve got to be the most stubbornly ignorant person I have jousted with on this site. And the most prolific troll at continuing to blather you ignorance all over this site, to your own shame and abuse by the ones you troll. Are you some kind of massicist? To invite everyone to constantly remind you of what a fool you are, or what??

      Like I posted before, trying to APPEAR smart, ain’t workin for ya!!
      (almost feel sorry for you…..…almost)

      Report Post » Rational Man  
  • American Soldier (Separated)
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:15am

    Do the offenders get to pick what church and religion to attend? Otherwise, this is unacceptable. Agnostics, Atheists and Budhist are forced to sit in jail while the wonderful Christians get to just go to church on Sunday. How is this acceptable in America?

    I appreciate the notion of saving the funds by not locking up the non-violent offenders but how exactly is this not biased in favor of Christianity and religion in general?

    Equal protection under the law. If they allow this, then the Atheist must be allowed this option and since his church is his own mind, he can have Sunday to lay out in the back yard with a cool brew and reflect on life. If you want your Christian criminals to be released on OR with mandatory church attendance, then a similar regiment must be in place for those that do not partake in a religion. Otherwise, no go for ANYONE and everyone goes to jail.

    Report Post » American Soldier (Separated)  
    • john luther
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:20am

      Read the whole article .It specifically states they are free to choose

      Report Post »  
    • MidWestMom
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:24am

      I agree. This is a bad idea.

      Report Post »  
    • redfish83
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:34am

      @JohnLuther

      I’m sorry you must be one of those Constitution shredding Tea Party members. We know they have a choice either go to church, which most are now nothing more than side shows that belong on Vegas, or stay locked up in a dingy cell. One of the main pillars of this nation is religious freedom. Having the freedom to choose between a christian service and jail is not religious freedom nor constitutional. They should respect another persons beliefs. We all know that each christian thinks that his particular way is the only way. But that is not the government’s decision to make.

      Report Post »  
    • This_Individual
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:41am

      I suppose that I would have to remain in jail. Fortunately, I keep my nose clean.

      Report Post »  
    • Rational Man
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:45am

      “Agnostics, Atheists and Budhist are forced to sit in jail while the wonderful Christians get to just go to church on Sunday. How is this acceptable in America?”

      There was a crime commited. The choice is punishment or rehabilitation. Since there is no set code of ethics for the people listed above, they get to choose the ethics based, “church”, for rehabilitation or the punishment of jail. Or, if they so choose, they can consider the church as punishment. In which case they may be rehabilitated in the process…….They DO have a choice you know!
      I‘m an American and I think it’s acceptable!

      Darn those nasty old Ten Commandments anyway!!

      Report Post » Rational Man  
    • SacredHonor1776
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 12:10pm

      Last I heard criminals generally aren‘t given any choices in most states it’s go straight to jail, don‘t pass go and don’t collect $200.

      Report Post »  
    • This_Individual
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 12:30pm

      RATIONAL- “There was a crime commited. The choice is punishment or rehabilitation. Since there is no set code of ethics for the people listed above…”

      Being a good person, choosing not to break the law, and not hindering the free will of others, is not exclusive to Christianity.

      Report Post »  
    • Rational Man
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 1:00pm

      @This_Individual

      Then where did everyone else get their ethics and morals from?
      What is the bases for their ethics and morals?
      Where do they teach those ethics and morals?
      Is it a set code to live by, or just whatever they think up or justify at the time?
      If they think it is wrong to murder, how did they come to that conclusion?
      Who set the standard for their morality and ethics?

      Let me answer those hard questions for you. It’s judeo-christian principles and beliefs, or… Christianity!
      A “moral” Atheist believes in God whether he knows it or admits it or not!

      Report Post » Rational Man  
    • This_Individual
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 2:37pm

      RATIONAL- “Then where did everyone else get their ethics and morals from?” I can only speak for myself. The enlightenment which my Gods have entrusted me with. And, common sence.

      “What is the bases for their ethics and morals?” What are they? The realization that it is better to live and let live, rather than telling someone that they are wrong for the path that they have chosen (leads to anger and destrucion). Which is why I have nothing against you believing in your God or religion. But found it reasonable to let you know that my being a non-Christian doesn’t mean that I have no compassion, empathy, or respect for my fellow human beings.

      “Where do they teach those ethics and morals?” I happen to show my children these things by example.

      “Is it a set code to live by, or just whatever they think up or justify at the time?” It is, if you would like to live in peace.

      “If they think it is wrong to murder, how did they come to that conclusion?” How did I? Because I know I wouldn’t want someone to come up to me for no reason and kill me.

      “Who set the standard for their morality and ethics?” Each and every individual who chooses to live their life with common sence.
      “Let me answer those hard questions for you.” Not difficult at all.
      It’s judeo-christian principles and beliefs, or… Christianity!
      A “moral” Atheist believes in God whether he knows it or admits it or not!” Maybe that person knows the consiquencs of his actions. It doesn

      Report Post »  
    • American Soldier (Separated)
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 3:16pm

      @JOHN LUTHER

      How come you get to choose freedom while I would have to choose jail time? How is that a choice?

      @THIS_INDIVIDUAL

      The problem is, who‘s to say you won’t be in trouble for some random non-violent code violation next year? Who’s to say one day, you won’t be jailed for having incandescence light bulbs by the green police? Non-violent could mean a number of things, things that could easily effect you. Just because everything you do is legal today, does that mean (especially the way the government is going these days to overstep our freedoms) they will be legal for you to do tomorrow! You can to think of how these things will affect you in the future, not just today. This is how we got into the problem we’re facing in this nation!

      @RATIONAL MAN

      So say next year, your ability to possess a fire arm is outlawed. You’re arrested and are given a sentence of six months or mandatory weekly attendance for two years to a mosque. Is that much of a choice for you? You say a crime was committed, it could be any crime and who‘s to say something that was legal for you to do today won’t be illegal tomorrow? Did those Amish ever thing they’d go to jail for not putting up stupid orange triangles on their buggies?

      You are an American. A selfish one that doesn’t consider the future implications of laws. As long as it looks like it will benefit you today you don’t care how it could possible be turned around and used against you or your family in the future.

      Report Post » American Soldier (Separated)  
    • Rational Man
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 3:26pm

      You tried to explain where your kids get ethics and morals, but you never explained where the origin of your ethics and morals come from. Your dad? Where did he get them? And the ones before him?
      How do you know your ethics and morals are right and not misguided? What is the standard? Where did it come from? How long has it been around? Why do you subscribe to them?
      You can try, but you can’t show that the ethical and moral standards the whole world has lived and died by since the beginning of history, was not set by God though judeo-christian ethics and principles…….But go ahead and try!

      Knowing the consequences and knowing it is wrong is two different things. Choosing to not do something because of the consequences is not the same as not doing it because it’s wrong.

      So maybe what it boils down to is that you have no ethics or morals. You just don‘t want to suffer the consequences of doing wrong and you really don’t care about right and wrong. So in secret, when you won’t get caught, you will do it. That is not ethical or moral. and does nothing to encourage the law breaker to lead a crime free life.
      Christianity will!

      This also means that you can’t really contribute to this conversation because it is about ethics and morals. Not “common sense” to avoid getting caught.

      Some of us were hoping for a better person than that to emerge from this program.

      Report Post » Rational Man  
    • Rational Man
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 3:40pm

      @American Soldier (Separated)

      Take off that darned tinfoil hat and try to stay on topic. Try to focus! Did you even read the article??
      Just what is it about the words CHOICE and OPTION that you don’t understand?
      MAN, you must be a pain to live around………….(down there in that bunker)

      Report Post » Rational Man  
    • Rational Man
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 3:51pm

      As crazy as you nutcase libertarians are, I’m sure you will be the first ones to go to jail. Fine! Don’t take the option and stay in jail and sit on your ignorant libertarian views.
      There is just no having a coherant conversation with you freaks.
      Beats the heck out of me how you people think that you are somehow the ultimate conservatives.
      Your really just the ultimate morons………………

      BTW, If you stop taking your pills, it makes the paranoia worse!

      Report Post » Rational Man  
    • KPEdwards
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 4:06pm

      @Rational
      I would say that the code of ethics and morals are not exclusive to the Abraham religions. I mean Would you say Bhudism, Hinduism, Shintoism, the Roman and Greek pantheons, the Norse pantheon, etc… just stole these ideas. I mean, do you’re religious beliefs include the idea that man has no ability to come up with ethics and morals without the assistance of a higher power?

      And if you want an answer to where these ethics come from for a non-believer, it is, in my opinion, from the significant aspect that humans can experience empathy. We are able to understand and experience feelings without under going some causal event.

      To be upfront, I do not believe in the existence of a deity. However, if I did, I would think the universe was created in the most beautiful, elegant way. Using the most simple of basics that would bring about enormously rich complexity.

      Report Post »  
    • This_Individual
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 4:14pm

      RATIONALMAN- How sad for you. May your God continue to shine his enlightenment on you (hopefully, you will get it).May I suggest pulling your face out of the Bible for a while, and maybe you’ll recieve your own message from your God (because you read as if the answer for the collective, is the same for you). The embrace of my shining Gods is eternal, and that is what keeps me at peace. You will notice, that when you pull away from the fundemental human instict of attempting to draw others into what you believe, and just live your life according to your God’s teachings (if that is your way), you will have achieved true peace.

      Report Post »  
    • This_Individual
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 4:24pm

      AMRICANSOLDIER, I realize that. I’ve spoken with folks who have lived in the Soviet Union. It opened my eyes to many things.

      Report Post »  
    • Rational Man
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 4:35pm

      @This_Individual

      Ooooh!…. How existential!……(and condecending)…….good job!

      But still not an answer!

      Report Post » Rational Man  
    • KPEdwards
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 5:01pm

      @Rational
      I suppose I’ll go into your individual questions:
      1)Then where did everyone else get their ethics and morals from?
      As I mentioned above, from each other. Someone, somewhere came up with an aspect of how they thought society should act. Others thought it was good and just. So, they banded together and enforced it.

      2)What is the bases for their ethics and morals?
      That people thought they were good and just.

      3)Is it a set code to live by, or just whatever they think up or justify at the time?
      Call me a nihilist, but the latter. And I think, we (the human race) have done pretty alright. One of my favorite parables is the temptation of Christ, specifically it’s presentation in The Grand Inquisitor (reading The Brothers Karamazov was one of the closest point to becoming religious I’ve ever been). In which Christ refuses to take the role of Messiah by taking control of all the world. We should decide how we will act.

      4)If they think it is wrong to murder, how did they come to that conclusion?
      By being in society.

      5)Who set the standard for their morality and ethics?
      We did.

      Also, just to note: While I can‘t prove that these ethics didn’t come from some deity, it is just as impossible to prove that they were handed down from on high.

      Report Post »  
    • Rational Man
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 5:39pm

      @KPEdwards

      You proved nothing of the original source. How do you know your friend or whoever didn’t steer you wrong when he told you murder is wrong? If you think murder is wrong, did you just take someone’s word for it? Who’s word and why?
      You say you can prove, but you did not……How come?
      It’s historical fact…….prove it!

      Report Post » Rational Man  
    • American Soldier (Separated)
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 7:17pm

      @RATIONAL MAN

      You act like Christianity has existed since the day one. What did the world do before Christianity? There was still civility and morals before Christianity or organized religions.

      Report Post » American Soldier (Separated)  
    • Rational Man
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 7:40pm

      @American Soldier (Separated)

      God’s law has been around since the fall of Adam and Eve. Otherwise there would not have been a fall. What did they fall from? Cain and Abel. After the Ten Commandments were handed down to the Hebrews, what happened to all the other pagan civilizations before them and the ones that stood in their way after?…..GONE!
      The Jews carried God’s law forward from there. And in case you didn’t know, Christianity has it’s roots in Judaism. Jesus came to “fulfill the law”. These judeo-christian ethics and morals have been the moral and ethical standard for all civilization. Right and wrong came from God. Not man. Man screws everything up. God set the standard for our own good and protection.
      But you know that…..You just don’t want to admit it. Everybody knows it. Some just want to rebel.

      Report Post » Rational Man  
    • Rational Man
      Posted on September 25, 2011 at 11:22am

      “The Hebrews have done more to civilize men than any other nation. If I were an atheist, and believed blind eternal fate, I should still believe that fate had ordained the Jews to be the most essential instrument for civilizing the nations. ”

      “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

      John Adams

      Some of you that like to reference the constitution all the time, should be mindfull of these statements!

      Report Post » Rational Man  
  • loveliberty83
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:10am

    the problem today without church kids are not learning the difference between right & wrong

    Report Post »  
  • loveliberty83
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:07am

    This is the same as the judges did years ago -many young people getting unto some problems would be given the chance the military or jail -they grew up fast & learned respect finished school & became good citizens -many young people screw & they got a second chance—if they go to jail they get in with the wrong people

    Report Post »  
    • encinom
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 5:09pm

      Military or Jail choice does not violate the First Amendment.

      Report Post »  
  • TexasHunter
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:05am

    Thank You Broker. Greatly appreciated.

    Report Post » TexasHunter  
  • This_Individual
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:05am

    Non-violent offenders? Sure, why not? If they are Christian.

    Report Post »  
    • bear knucklez
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:47am

      It doesn’t say they have to be Christians, nor does it say they have to convert to any denomination/regligion… its just an option to find a place that is willing to give support and structure and alternatives to lives of poor choices. I don’t even see that they have to participate in church ministries, outings, sunday school or any of those other things that churches do. They have 57 different churches offering to help… I‘m sure mosques and synagogues aren’t excluded. I don’t understand why there would be a problem.

      Report Post »  
    • This_Individual
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 12:17pm

      BEAR- I would have no problem with that personally (if there wasn’t any proslytizing involved).

      Report Post »  
    • encinom
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 5:10pm

      bear knucklez
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:47am
      It doesn’t say they have to be Christians, nor does it say they have to convert to any denomination/regligion… its just an option to find a place that is willing to give support and structure and alternatives to lives of poor choices. I don’t even see that they have to participate in church ministries, outings, sunday school or any of those other things that churches do. They have 57 different churches offering to help… I‘m sure mosques and synagogues aren’t excluded. I don’t understand why there would be a problem.
      _____________________________________________
      What is the choice for an Atheists, jail?

      Report Post »  
    • MHP
      Posted on September 24, 2011 at 9:15am

      encinom

      You athiests do have a choice, sit in your “Messiah” Obama’s church or go to jail.
      Remember Obama is not Christian, so that should suit you just fine

      Report Post » MHP  
  • SpaceCoyote
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:04am

    I love the Idea of this but I have a few concerns . What churches would quallify and who determines those qualifications . When it comes down to it there is the issue of government endorsment of one religion over another because I doubt if the state would allow a Rastafari church or a “Furthur” hippie church, or Santaria to be allowed . Can you see the constitutional quagmire (gigiddy) that could arise ?

    Report Post »  
    • PubliusPencilman
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:12am

      Even if one doesn’t think that establishment clause applies, this practice very clearly violates the right to a free exercise of religion. Like the right to free speech, the free exercise clause has been applied at the state level through the due process clause. In this case, the town is deploying coercive measures in order to enforce a particular religious practice.

      And has anyone asks: what if the criminal is Jewish?

      Report Post »  
    • American Soldier (Separated)
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:17am

      Or an Atheist/Agnostic?

      Report Post » American Soldier (Separated)  
    • trolltrainer
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:20am

      or atheist, Muslim, Buddhist…Yeah, people are asking.

      This is a very good point. I think Locked has hit on a solution. Open it up to community service also.

      Report Post »  
  • Locked
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 10:57am

    Personally? If I was busted smoking dope or drinking underage I would definitely take church once a week over jail and fines. It says 56 churches are already offering to participate and people can pick their own, which is neat. However unless they want a lawsuit against them they should definitely include secular groups to achieve the same result (putting their lives on the right track). I’d recommend something like community service initiatives, Habitat for Humanity, a food bank, the Salvation Army, etc. I do really like the idea of rehabilitation versus incarceration, but it’s bound to attract lawsuits if the answer is ONLY religious.

    Report Post »  
    • Michael
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:04am

      the problem with that idea, secular groups will not have the positive impact a good church would.

      Report Post » Michael  
    • Fly Old Glory 24/7 365
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:07am

      nope, churches only….

      Report Post »  
    • American Soldier (Separated)
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 3:21pm

      I laugh at you all. None of you care about the future, do you? As long as it looks good on paper TODAY, who cares how it effects our loved ones in the future.

      Can you guarantee Christianity will be the dominate religion in the next 50 years? The next 100 years? Who’s to say Ban Minette, Alabama doesn’t see an influx of Muslims moving into town in the next 50 years? Then the elect a Muslim police chief that decides “Well, instead of Church, they’ll go to a Mosque!” I would love to see how much you support this vision of rehabilitation then! Oh, I know, these government programs that over reach is perfectly fine as long as they promote YOUR church and beliefs!

      Pathetic. Hypocrites, every single one of you. Honestly, I never one to hear any of you, except a small few, ever speak out demanding small, limited government ever again. You don’t really want that, no you don’t. You just want government limited unless they’re doing something to benefit YOU. If it’s to benefit anyone else, that‘s not the government’s job!

      Report Post » American Soldier (Separated)  
  • Vickie Dhaene
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 10:50am

    How are they going to keep track of each offender? P>O>’s at every church. Sounds like a good ideaa that I don’t think will work as well as they hope.

    Report Post »  
    • Rational Man
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:51am

      I would assume that the pastor keeps track of church attendance and reports to a court officer.
      Seems pretty simple.

      Report Post » Rational Man  
  • misteryuck
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 10:48am

    Don’t worry… The ACLU will be calling Bay Minnette soon to clear this little mess up…
    Good idea though.

    Report Post » misteryuck  
  • broker0101
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 10:46am

    Come on Blazers! Glenn Beck is broadcasting his radio program RIGHT NOW! You should all be kneeling at the makeshift altar built around your radio in the corner of your kitchens. Do not disobey the Eleventh Commandment, “Thou shalt dedicate thine full attention to ALL Glenn Beck for-profit enterprises”. Now, get to it!

    Report Post » broker0101  
    • misteryuck
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 10:49am

      Better to remain silent and thought a fool, than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt.
      I guess this means YOU don’t have anything better to do.

      Report Post » misteryuck  
    • trolltrainer
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 10:53am

      ROFL,

      You are a hard-core hater, aren’t you?

      Report Post »  
    • TexasHunter
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 10:56am

      Broker Please change your Avatar to a troll. For that is what you are and you do not need to disgrace our founding fathers with the spew coming out of your one track noodle. What they are doing here is a good thing. Why pay for them on your Tax dollar to sit in Jail. Maybe they will find God. Maybe this will help them. They do it in Prison why not do it in the real world. Now please get busy working on your picture.

      Report Post » TexasHunter  
    • Dosta
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 10:59am

      Broker0101 you better hurry you might miss The View. Don’t forget your candles!

      Report Post »  
    • This_Individual
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:01am

      You sir, need avacation. I know of a little place in Parhump NV, that would bring some peace to your world :)

      Report Post »  
    • Fly Old Glory 24/7 365
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:09am

      I wonder which church BROKER will choose to attend….or will he just go to jail?

      Report Post »  
    • john luther
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:22am

      So maybe we should all bow at the obama alter such as yourself .Do you see yourself in the complaints you throw about others

      Report Post »  
    • eaglenva
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:22am

      This guy has watched Bevus and Buthead too many times, not real sure which one he is trying to emulate ;-)

      Report Post » eaglenva  
    • John 3:16
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:28am

      Broker, why do you care enough to comment? You hate Glenn anyway. Hate and Jealousy are sooooo obvious and unattractive. Go worship at the shrine of your idol and your hero Allah Obama.

      Report Post » John 3:16  
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